Transcript

[00:00.2 – 00:06.1] You know, I've been waiting on him to, like, snap on somebody or, uh, you know, show some, some serious character defects. [00:06.1 – 00:09.0] But this dude out here is, uh, he sponsors guys. [00:09.0 – 00:10.2] He helps out all the time. [00:10.2 – 00:14.4] And he's, uh, really one of my best friends and a guy that I look up to around here. [00:14.4 – 00:15.6] So come on, Chris. [00:15.6 – 00:22.1] Yeah. [00:22.1 – 00:23.8] Walk right up. [00:23.8 – 00:28.3] It's like you should talk more shit. [00:28.3 – 00:30.0] It's terrible. [00:30.0 – 00:30.6] We get there. [00:30.6 – 00:32.1] All right. [00:32.1 – 00:35.1] Hey, I'm Chris. [00:35.1 – 00:35.7] I'm a heroin addict. [00:35.7 – 00:36.3] Chris. [00:36.3 – 00:38.0] All right. [00:38.0 – 00:39.1] Give me one second. [00:39.1 – 00:41.4] Let me drink some water and I'm, I'm coming to you guys. [00:41.4 – 00:45.8] Little closer to the mic? [00:45.8 – 00:47.1] Little closer. [00:47.1 – 00:48.4] Oh, I was too close to it. [00:48.4 – 00:49.5] All right. [00:49.5 – 00:50.8] Hey, can y'all hear me all right out there? [00:50.8 – 00:51.7] Yeah. [00:51.7 – 00:52.3] All right, cool. [00:52.3 – 00:56.8] I, I'm much louder than, than Jake, I hope, and, uh, definitely louder than Chris S. [00:56.8 – 00:57.9] that was up here earlier. [00:57.9 – 00:59.6] So I'll yell at you guys if I have to. [00:59.6 – 01:03.0] Um, thank y'all for having me out here. [01:03.0 – 01:04.4] This is really a pleasure. [01:04.4 – 01:06.6] Uh, Ben's out there somewhere, I'm sure. [01:06.6 – 01:07.6] I don't know. [01:07.6 – 01:08.8] Thank-thanks, Ben. [01:08.8 – 01:11.1] Um, thanks for the rest of y'all for putting this on. [01:11.1 – 01:15.3] You know, I think unity in our home groups is important. [01:15.3 – 01:17.9] You know, unity with people in my network is important. [01:17.9 – 01:26.0] But unity between the HA groups and the areas in the Southeast and the country is becoming a really, really, really cool thing to be a part of. [01:26.0 – 01:28.5] Um, and I'm really grateful for y'all throwing this on. [01:28.5 – 01:29.0] It's a great time. [01:29.0 – 01:30.8] I wish I could have played some kickball with y'all earlier. [01:30.8 – 01:41.0] I broke, um, I broke this foot like three months ago and I'm recovering from it, and I actually, like, broke part of this foot about, oh, [01:41.0 – 01:42.2] three weeks ago. [01:42.2 – 01:43.3] So I'm not chancing it. [01:43.3 – 01:45.8] I went out here about to screw these things up to go play kickball with you guys. [01:45.8 – 01:46.4] But you did great. [01:46.4 – 01:49.3] Alabama lost like hell, so I'm real proud of you guys. [01:49.3 – 01:53.4] Um, yeah, Tennessee and Atlanta, y'all did great. [01:53.4 – 01:54.0] A pleasure. [01:54.0 – 02:04.0] Um, I'm gonna do my best to tell you guys, like, what happened, what it's like, and what it's like– or what, what [02:04.0 – 02:06.5] it was like, what happened, and what it's like now. [02:06.5 – 02:12.1] Um, I don't really have a whole lot to blame on my heroin addiction. [02:12.1 – 02:17.6] There were no, like, real circumstances that I think, like, caused me to use drugs the way I did. [02:17.6 – 02:26.8] I think that, you know, this is my opinion, I must have been born with a heroin addict gene, um, that if I did not find heroin, like, I would have abused something else, you know, for the rest of my life. [02:26.8 – 02:27.6] That could have been money. [02:27.6 – 02:29.8] Um, my first drug of choice was food. [02:29.8 – 02:31.5] You know, I'll put that out there. [02:31.5 – 02:37.0] You know, I was a fat kid growing up and, like, that's where I found my comfort. [02:37.0 – 02:43.7] Um, and so, you know, I, I, I had like one traumatic experience when I was a kid. [02:43.7 – 02:52.7] I was, um, I was probably somewhere between first and third grade, and during the summertime, instead of going to school, um, we would go to daycare. [02:52.7 – 02:53.4] My parents worked. [02:53.4 – 02:55.9] They're both professionals and, like, couldn't have us around the house during the day. [02:55.9 – 03:00.9] And so I remember being, um, I don't know, probably somewhere between six and ten. [03:00.9 – 03:04.4] I was on the playground just, like, kicking around in the dirt and a heavyset kid, you know. [03:04.4 – 03:07.0] Like I said, I was addicted to cheeseburgers and donuts when I was a kid. [03:07.0 – 03:11.7] Um, but like this girl comes up and she makes a fat joke at me. [03:11.7 – 03:21.7] Um, and it, it, it should have been pretty benign, but all she did was she came up and in front of, you know, two of my other friends, she looked at me, pointed at me and said, [03:21.7 – 03:25.1] “Jelly donuts.” That, that was it. [03:25.1 – 03:27.2] That was the first time I'd ever got teased. [03:27.2 – 03:29.1] You know, the girl made a fat joke at me. [03:29.1 – 03:33.8] Um, and I, I felt different. [03:33.8 – 03:35.5] Um, I felt shame. [03:35.5 – 03:40.3] That was the first time I looked around and I saw that, like, you know, people looked different than I did. [03:40.3 – 03:42.0] Um, and I was a heavyset kid. [03:42.0 – 03:43.9] Uh, fortunately, like, this problem's been resolved, right? [03:43.9 – 03:44.8] You know, look at me now. [03:44.8 – 03:47.1] I, I've overcome, like, the physical symptom of course. [03:47.1 – 03:53.0] Um, but believe me, like I was a heavyset kid and, like, that absolutely, like, made me feel apart from. [03:53.0 – 03:55.8] Um, and it just, it, it really devastated me, guys. [03:55.8 – 04:02.2] I went, um, home from, you know, daycare that day and I went to my mom and I just like broke down crying. [04:02.2 – 04:04.6] One of the first times I ever remember like really just crying. [04:04.6 – 04:06.2] I said I never want to go back to school again. [04:06.2 – 04:08.5] And I, I would not tell her what happened. [04:08.5 – 04:11.5] Um, and she just knew like something had happened at school. [04:11.5 – 04:13.8] Wasn't bad enough to get a call from the school. [04:13.8 – 04:18.5] I never told her what happened, you know, but there was something wrong with her kid, you know, and he was really upset. [04:18.5 – 04:20.8] And so, like, that set me apart and made me feel different. [04:20.8 – 04:22.0] And I've always carried that with me. [04:22.0 – 04:25.7] Um, that, you know, very self-conscious body image. [04:25.7 – 04:29.3] And I've had a lot of struggles with that that I'm not gonna get too far into because, you know, this ain't purpose. [04:29.3 – 04:34.3] But like I just want to put that out there that, like, that was a problem for me, um, that took me a while to overcome. [04:34.3 – 04:37.3] I probably should have like had some qualifiers here. [04:37.3 – 04:40.8] Um, Birmingham is where I'm from. [04:40.8 – 04:43.9] You know, Breaking Point Group of Heroin Anonymous, couple of my buddies are over there. [04:43.9 – 04:45.5] Uh, that's my home group. [04:45.5 – 04:49.7] If you're ever in the Birmingham area, I thought some of y'all know, some of y'all come out that way, please come see us. [04:49.7 – 04:52.7] You know, we're there Tuesdays, Thursdays, Sunday nights at eight o'clock. [04:52.7 – 04:54.3] We would love to have you guys. [04:54.3 – 04:55.3] Come get a meeting with us. [04:55.3 – 04:58.9] Um, sobriety date is February 27th, 2012. [04:58.9 – 05:01.5] Uh, so I got sober when I was twenty-two years old. [05:01.5 – 05:07.7] You know, a young kid, didn't have a whole lot of party experience, and I, I really felt like I could not relate to you guys when I came in. [05:07.7 – 05:11.3] So, um, there's, there's the qualifier. [05:11.3 – 05:15.0] Really like– It says in the book. [05:15.0 – 05:16.3] I'm, Imma just read a line real quick. [05:16.3 – 05:25.4] So, you know, out of the doctor's opinion, this is one of the first things I related to when I stumbled into treatment. [05:25.4 – 05:29.9] You know, February 2012, it says men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. [05:29.9 – 05:35.5] The sensation is so elusive that while they admit it's injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true to false. [05:35.5 – 05:37.8] To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. [05:37.8 – 05:47.4] They're restless, irritable, and discontented unless they can again expense– again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks, drinks which they see others take with impunity. [05:47.4 – 05:56.7] After they have succumbed to desire again, as many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known stages of spree, emerging remorseful with a firm resolution not to drink again. [05:56.7 – 06:03.3] This is repeated over and over again, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change, there is very little hope of his recovery. [06:03.3 – 06:08.6] You know, drugs and alcohol were not my, like, problem at first. [06:08.6 – 06:10.9] Like, those were my first solutions. [06:10.9 – 06:21.2] Um, when I was fifteen years old and, you know, got high after a concert with my buddies, um, that feeling of apartness, that feeling of, like, being [06:21.2 – 06:26.6] different, um, that fear of being overweight and being judged, like, just totally left me and the light, you know, light switch turned on. [06:26.6 – 06:28.7] Like, I knew, like, that was something that worked for me. [06:28.7 – 06:34.2] Um, and so it didn't become a problem until I was probably nineteen years old. [06:34.2 – 06:44.0] You know, I had four years of good, like, partying on the weekends with my friends, and that was just a social thing to do that, like, made me feel a part of, and it was really, really a helpful tool to get me out of my shell. [06:44.0 – 06:51.4] You know, get me into, like, a fellowship of people, you know, um, my, my peers at school, and, like, make me feel like I was one of, not different. [06:51.4 – 06:54.2] It was, like, a really good thing for me for, uh, for a period of time. [06:54.2 – 07:04.3] I guess when it got bad is after I got out of high school, um, and I was supposed to be going to college, uh, me and my sister, my younger sister, she's a year and a half younger than me, um, we moved into [07:04.3 – 07:05.6] a house together in Madison. [07:05.6 – 07:06.7] It's North Alabama. [07:06.7 – 07:07.0] If anyone… [07:07.0 – 07:08.1] Y'all know where Huntsville is. [07:08.1 – 07:09.1] It's right outside of there. [07:09.1 – 07:13.3] And so we got a little house together, and we had freedom, which was beautiful. [07:13.3 – 07:14.9] That's all I ever wanted. [07:14.9 – 07:17.6] And we put a beer pong table in the dining room. [07:17.6 – 07:21.2] Um, you know, we put a handle of liquor in the freezer. [07:21.2 – 07:24.9] You know, we always had weed around because we'd been doing that. [07:24.9 – 07:29.7] And someone introduced, you know, OxyContin. [07:29.7 – 07:37.2] Um, now I'm here to tell you, if they still made OxyContin, you know, with the O and the C on the front instead of the O and the P, like, I'd probably still be doing that. [07:37.2 – 07:42.6] Uh, you know, I, I did not get to heroin as, like, a first choice, you know. [07:42.6 – 07:46.5] That is purely because they quit making OxyContin, and I got desperate. [07:46.5 – 07:50.9] Um, so, you know, that was a fun part of the party thing for a little while, you know. [07:50.9 – 07:56.8] OxyContin eighties, um, and you know, some of its little brothers, you know, with the M stamps and the thirties on them and things like that. [07:56.8 – 08:00.1] And so, like, that was my first love, and, like, I'd always judged the heroin addicts. [08:00.1 – 08:00.8] Like, I knew people. [08:00.8 – 08:01.6] Like, I knew a few people. [08:01.6 – 08:06.3] Like, heroin was hard to get, you know, in, in Madison when you're nineteen years old, and it's 2010. [08:06.3 – 08:06.7] Like, it's… [08:06.7 – 08:08.8] It was not, like, big out there at that point. [08:08.8 – 08:13.1] Um, and so the few people that I knew were into that, they were, like, gross, grungy, you know. [08:13.1 – 08:14.1] I'm never gonna touch that. [08:14.1 – 08:16.5] You know, that was one of those barriers, those lines. [08:16.5 – 08:17.5] Like, I, I… [08:17.5 – 08:24.8] It's socially acceptable to snort an OxyContin with your friend on a Saturday night, but it is not socially acceptable to, you know, snort or mainline heroin. [08:24.8 – 08:26.2] Therefore, I will never do this. [08:26.2 – 08:30.2] Um, uh, I will control this. [08:30.2 – 08:34.6] You know, this will be a fun thing to do on the weekends with my friends when I have enough money to buy one of these big green pills. [08:34.6 – 08:40.4] And I was listening to somebody speak the other day, and they were talking about this three-day rule. [08:40.4 – 08:41.9] You know, like, I can… [08:41.9 – 08:49.1] A-as long as I don't get high more than three days in a row, I can stop, you know, and I'm not gonna get addicted. [08:49.1 – 08:51.8] I did not understand addiction when I was using these OxyContins and things. [08:51.8 – 08:57.3] And so, you know, I would just go use on the weekends and on a great weekend on a Friday and Saturday. [08:57.3 – 08:58.7] Um, but Sunday we better be careful. [08:58.7 – 08:59.9] You know what I mean? [08:59.9 – 09:01.9] We don't wanna go past that three days. [09:01.9 – 09:08.2] And so, you know, that, that became a problem, and I figured, like, I will be a drug addict if I am using more than several days in a row. [09:08.2 – 09:09.6] That's all I knew to be a problem. [09:09.6 – 09:17.2] Um, but someday I discovered what, uh, dope sickness was, and I realized, like, after a couple of days, you know. [09:17.2 – 09:19.2] I did a third day and whatever, you know. [09:19.2 – 09:23.0] I did that a couple of times, and, like, day four, like, I felt fricking bad. [09:23.0 – 09:29.9] Um, and, and I, like, I had an idea of, like, what withdrawals were, and so, you know, that was the main, like, enemy to fend off against. [09:29.9 – 09:32.5] Um, and so I tried, like, different ways of controlling, moderating that. [09:32.5 – 09:41.7] You know, I would just, like, you know, drink most of the time or do nothing or just smoke pot, you know, and just, um, you know, use a, use an OxyContin as a treat, okay? [09:41.7 – 09:44.6] Uh, circumstances happened, I guess. [09:44.6 – 09:47.7] Like, my sister went off to the University of Alabama. [09:47.7 – 09:49.7] Um, I was in that house alone. [09:49.7 – 09:55.9] Had, you know, a few friends that would come over and hang out, but I, I, I became pretty alone. [09:55.9 – 10:02.5] Like, I found, um, you know, one of the side effects of, um, OxyContin and larger opiates like that is antisocialness. [10:02.5 – 10:13.2] So instead of inviting people over to use drugs with me and them steal my drugs and just having to deal with them, like, I'd just do them alone, um, and try to moderate as best I could. [10:13.2 – 10:20.0] And, and it got to the point where, you know, of course, I'm using, like, daily, and, uh, you know, I found that I couldn't stop, and this is a problem. [10:20.0 – 10:23.3] And so, you know, take some, take some Suboxone methadone. [10:23.3 – 10:24.7] That was really the only solution I knew. [10:24.7 – 10:28.6] And, um, you know, may-maybe it wouldn't get too bad. [10:28.6 – 10:34.6] What I found, though, is, like, I was able to deal with the, the physical aspect of it. [10:34.6 – 10:37.8] You know, I, I had found a maintenance drug. [10:37.8 – 10:47.9] Methadone is what it was at the time, that, you know, when I got that off and when I got physically, like, problematic with, with heroin, you know, or, um, OxyContin at this time, sorry, that I could take a methadone, you know, after [10:47.9 – 10:49.9] a day or so and be physically okay. [10:49.9 – 10:53.8] You know, just taking methadone in, like, a short, a short run, like, you know, does not get so bad. [10:53.8 – 11:00.4] And I did that, but I didn't understand the concept of powerlessness as I do today. [11:00.4 – 11:04.1] You know, um, powerless over heroin, and then my life's become unmanageable. [11:04.1 – 11:14.3] And powerless to me is, um, you know, the phenomenon of craving that they talk about in the doctor's opinion, that I have this physical allergy that condenses me to keep doing this, and I have this mental obsession. [11:14.3 – 11:24.1] Well, the problem was, is, like, I would just think about it, think about it, think about it, think about it, think about it until it became this obsessive thought where, like, there's nothing I could do but, like, go get high. [11:24.1 – 11:29.6] Um, and that, that would lead me right back to what, you know, I considered was a relapse at the time. [11:29.6 – 11:30.7] It's not like I was coming into rooms. [11:30.7 – 11:32.2] I had no knowledge of this. [11:32.2 – 11:38.4] Um, a-and that's pretty much how it would go, and it'd just be back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth and pretty, pretty miserable. [11:38.4 – 11:43.1] Um, so my sister goes away to University of Alabama. [11:43.1 – 11:46.4] Um, she, she ends up coming back a few months later. [11:46.4 – 11:47.6] I move out on my own. [11:47.6 – 11:49.7] You know, I'm, I'm doing fine. [11:49.7 – 11:54.3] I move in with a buddy of mine who's a pretty bad alcoholic, which I did not know at the time. [11:54.3 – 11:56.9] He was into alcohol, and he was, he was into Xanax. [11:56.9 – 12:06.5] And, uh, we just had this little house kind of all by ourselves, and, um, that's when my opiate use got bad. [12:06.5 – 12:08.5] You know, it became uncontrollable. [12:08.5 – 12:10.3] There was no way to stop it, even though, like [12:10.5 – 12:14.1] I wanted to, and, and I learned kind of what it was to, like, use against my will. [12:14.1 – 12:20.2] Um, that, that was when, like, the, the horror story of when they quit making OxyContin happened. [12:20.2 – 12:24.8] You know, it was probably somewhere around twenty ten and, uh, you know, the mass panic. [12:24.8 – 12:32.1] Like, I see this news article that, uh, Purdue or whoever the hell makes them, you know, there's this war on opiates, and they, they quit making the damn things. [12:32.1 – 12:42.3] It's like, “Oh,” you know, me and my buddies that are using them, it's like, “All right, well, you know, this is gonna get problematic after a while.” You know, “Let's, let's figure out what we do when this bridge comes.” I swear it was, like, [12:42.3 – 12:49.0] two days later that it dried up, and my drug of choice was completely gone, um, and, and there was nothing. [12:49.0 – 12:52.5] And this was also right about the time that I had, um… [12:52.5 – 12:54.5] I didn't have a huge tolerance to these things at the time. [12:54.5 – 12:57.7] But what happened is I, I, I rode motorcycles for a while, right? [12:57.7 – 13:04.9] And, you know, I, I had my bike, and I was riding down the street one day, and for whatever reason, I locked up the, the rear brakes. [13:04.9 – 13:07.6] And if anybody rides motorcycles around here, you know it's, like, really sketchy. [13:07.6 – 13:11.0] You know, your, your back wheel's coming out, um, from under you. [13:11.0 – 13:16.3] And I lost control of my, uh, bike and crashed into the back of a BMW going forty miles an hour. [13:16.3 – 13:18.7] No gear on. [13:18.7 – 13:24.3] You know, I, I had a helmet, and I had, you know, shoes and shorts and a T-shirt, and that was it. [13:24.3 – 13:27.0] And I, I slammed in the back of this BMW. [13:27.0 – 13:33.9] I broke five ribs, uh, a-and they, they carted me off to, um, yeah, urgent care and X-rayed. [13:33.9 – 13:42.5] And I was like, “Oh, great, you know, they're gonna send me in for surgery or whatnot.” No, there's really nothing you can do for broken ribs, um, I learned, except, like, pour pain medicine on it. [13:42.5 – 13:49.3] And so that's what happened, is they prescribed me, um, uh, a whole lot of Lortabs. [13:49.3 – 13:51.3] You know, and I'm already doing OxyContin at the time. [13:51.3 – 13:53.3] And so while this wasn't, like… [13:53.3 – 13:57.8] It wasn't really an extreme injury. [13:57.8 – 14:00.5] Yeah, it, like, hurt really, really bad, um, sure. [14:00.5 – 14:04.5] But the painkillers they were, they were giving me, like, didn't do anything. [14:04.5 – 14:08.1] It was the first time I was using opiates that I was, like, actually in pain. [14:08.1 – 14:12.2] Uh, and so that entire script of a hundred and twenty Lortabs went down in, like, two days. [14:12.2 – 14:14.2] I'm gonna check my time real quick, see where I'm at. [14:14.2 – 14:14.9] Eight twenty-five. [14:14.9 – 14:24.9] So the Lortabs are gone, and, you know, we've, we've got a buddy that has, um, that, that has [14:24.9 – 14:25.4] heroin. [14:25.4 – 14:31.6] And that was something that, uh, like I said earlier, I never wanted to do. [14:31.6 – 14:34.3] I never wanted to be in the class with those guys that did that. [14:34.3 – 14:39.0] And so, uh, while I was very reluctant, like, I was also in a lot of pain. [14:39.0 – 14:42.2] I'm getting very ostracized and, like, mental pain or whatever, and it got to that point. [14:42.2 – 14:44.0] It was like that barrier thought was, like, gone. [14:44.0 – 14:49.3] Like, “I need this to get by now.” And so we go get a bag of, um, uh, of dope. [14:49.3 – 14:52.2] Um, you know, I think we each got, like, one bag. [14:52.2 – 14:55.5] It wasn't much, and, like, that was just that electric feeling. [14:55.5 – 14:57.0] That's what I wanted. [14:57.0 – 14:59.6] Um, I fell in love with heroin for that short period of time. [14:59.6 – 15:03.6] And that's when things really started going downhill. [15:03.6 – 15:07.4] You know, I, um, I started getting some physical consequences. [15:07.4 – 15:09.1] I started getting a lot of pain. [15:09.1 – 15:12.3] Um, I started, like, really, really getting dope sick if I couldn't get a bag. [15:12.3 – 15:13.3] I started to run out of money. [15:13.3 – 15:19.3] I was starting to, like, not be able to go to work, um, if I, if I couldn't get any, and the habit's getting very, very expensive. [15:19.3 – 15:24.6] Um, but, you know, take, take all those factors away. [15:24.6 – 15:33.8] Take all those, like, um, you know, external things out of the way, and, like, I've still got, I've still got this mental, you know, part. [15:33.8 – 15:35.8] I was getting absolutely miserable. [15:35.8 – 15:41.6] Um, you know, I, I, I had a bad physical consequence, like, right after that that, like, couldn't stop me. [15:41.6 – 15:44.6] I was, I was trying so hard to stop, and it just, it wouldn't happen. [15:44.6 – 15:50.9] Um, you know, I, I got four Roxies one day and, um, you know, did them all, like, one load. [15:50.9 – 15:54.8] I did four Roxies right, right off the bat, and, um, I nodded out. [15:54.8 – 15:55.7] I was sitting at my desk. [15:55.7 – 15:57.3] And so I fall forward on my desk. [15:57.3 – 15:58.4] Uh, it was my left arm. [15:58.4 – 16:01.6] And, um, you know, I guess I, I, I passed out. [16:01.6 – 16:09.2] I woke up, you know, and the next morning, um, you know, twelve, fourteen hours later or something like that, I wake up, and I, I realize I can't move my arm. [16:09.2 – 16:09.9] Uh. [16:09.9 – 16:14.4] And so I, I, I, like, went to bed. [16:14.4 – 16:15.5] I tried to sleep it off, you know. [16:15.5 – 16:18.1] Like, I got in bed, you know, after being, like, blacked out for a while. [16:18.1 – 16:25.7] A couple hours later, I wake up, and I was like, “Oh, shit,” like, “I still can't feel my arm.” I call my dad freaking out. [16:25.7 – 16:28.1] Like, he takes me to the, um, he takes me to the doctor. [16:28.1 – 16:29.4] Um, can y'all still hear me okay? [16:29.4 – 16:30.6] This mic's falling down a little bit. [16:30.6 – 16:30.7] Yeah. [16:30.7 – 16:30.9] Cool. [16:30.9 – 16:35.5] Um, so he takes me to the doctor, and they tell me they smashed, I smashed a nerve cluster, you know, right here in my arm. [16:35.5 – 16:44.4] And what had happened was, is, um, you know, the bottom half of my arm was not responding anymore, and so I couldn't move my arm from, like, here to here. [16:44.4 – 16:54.0] And I don't know why that, like, set me off, like, into, like, a terrible, like, spin of depression, um, 'cause it was just a physical factor. [16:54.0 – 16:56.7] It's not like it was anything that, like, kept me from getting high. [16:56.7 – 16:59.3] Uh, everything else was, like, still, still usable. [16:59.3 – 17:01.2] I could still walk and drive to the dope man's house. [17:01.2 – 17:10.6] Um, it made, it made it a little more difficult to work, uh, and work out and play guitar and tie my shoes, uh, but, you know, everything other than that was, like, not really a big problem. [17:10.6 – 17:16.4] And it just, it just made me very depressed, and, um, you know, the opiate use took off. [17:16.4 – 17:18.8] I had a really, really bad encounter with my roommate. [17:18.8 – 17:20.8] I think I was becoming borderline psychotic at this point. [17:20.8 – 17:27.6] He stole a bunch of, um, yeah, drugs and money and other things from me, and, like, I was convinced that, like, I was gonna kill this guy, okay? [17:27.6 – 17:33.2] And, uh, I had a therapist I'd been going to for a long time that, uh, didn't understand what was going on. [17:33.2 – 17:38.2] Like, he understood that, you know, I had really, really bad anxiety, but, like, I never told him I was doing dope, okay? [17:38.2 – 17:39.4] I was trying to hide that from him. [17:39.4 – 17:40.3] I was going weekly. [17:40.3 – 17:42.7] And I went in there, like, in a panic. [17:42.7 – 17:52.6] They, they called this a, um, I don't know, like, an emergency, uh, you know, consult or whatever 'cause they thought, like, I was gonna k- He thought I was, like, endangering myself or somebody else. [17:52.6 – 18:01.1] Like, he was, like, legit convinced I was gonna kill my roommate or, like, possibly kill myself 'cause I was that depressed and, like, just fired up about, like, knowing this guy stole everything from me. [18:01.1 – 18:12.9] And, um, they said, like, “Dude, we gotta check you into, like, a psych eval.” Uh, like, “You can kinda go willingly or, or, like, it's probably gonna be a bit of a problem.” And this [18:12.9 – 18:18.7] was my first- Thought that I could really get an out and get treatment, okay? [18:18.7 – 18:25.7] And they checked me into a spot in, um, in Decatur, and I really thought, like, this was gonna be a place that I could go and get sober. [18:25.7 – 18:27.5] It's basically a, a psych ward, you know. [18:27.5 – 18:34.2] And I knew they were gonna give me a three-day mandatory eval over there, or I could go willingly and check in for like, you know, a couple of days on my own will. [18:34.2 – 18:39.6] So I went willingly with, with every intent of, like, getting sober and not getting high. [18:39.6 – 18:44.2] Um, and physically I was starting to separate. [18:44.2 – 18:49.1] I was getting sick in there, and after, you know, ten hours, I, I freaked out. [18:49.1 – 18:52.5] Like, I tried to leave, and I called my mom, and I was like, “You know, freaking come get me. [18:52.5 – 18:56.1] I cannot handle this.” I made up some lie that they were like, you know, being really mean to me or whatever. [18:56.1 – 19:06.2] Uh, and she came and got me, and, you know, that, that idea for getting treatment was just totally gone, um, because the mental obsession kicked back in and a little bit of like just, [19:06.2 – 19:07.9] you know, the dope working out of my system. [19:07.9 – 19:10.7] So, um, I'm gonna try to adjust this a little bit. [19:10.7 – 19:11.8] This is a little ridiculous. [19:11.8 – 19:14.6] You got me? [19:14.6 – 19:15.5] Nice. [19:15.5 – 19:25.3] Oh, there, I got it. [19:25.3 – 19:30.7] All right. [19:30.7 – 19:39.5] So, so, like, one failed attempt at treatment, like, led me back to, um, inevitably getting high and, like, pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. [19:39.5 – 19:47.1] And, like, I really started to understand what, um, you know, what powerlessness was at that point. [19:47.1 – 19:49.5] That there was no way I could stop even if I wanted to. [19:49.5 – 19:50.5] I'm back home with my parents. [19:50.5 – 19:52.2] I had to leave, I had to leave that house. [19:52.2 – 19:53.6] Like, I could not be there with that guy anymore. [19:53.6 – 19:58.0] I moved back in with my parents, and opiates are absolutely, like, the problem now, and I can totally recognize that. [19:58.0 – 19:59.5] I cannot stop on my own. [19:59.5 – 20:01.2] And so, like, I admit it. [20:01.2 – 20:02.7] I go down and I tell my parents. [20:02.7 – 20:07.5] This is the first time I actually got honest that, like, there was an opiate problem and said like, “Hey, like, I need some freaking help. [20:07.5 – 20:13.4] Um, you know, can we go to the doctor and see what we can figure out?” 'Cause I didn't know anything about 12 steps. [20:13.4 – 20:17.0] I didn't really know anything about, like, treatment other than going to the psych ward, which obviously didn't work. [20:17.0 – 20:21.0] And I thought, like, getting on Suboxone, uh, was my best bet. [20:21.0 – 20:22.8] And I, and I'm not knocking Suboxone by any means. [20:22.8 – 20:31.3] But for me, what it was is like I c- I could go and get a prescription for this and treat the physical symptoms, um, of what was going on. [20:31.3 – 20:37.2] And, like, I thought I would just be okay if I could get off sick, if I could just get off dope for like a couple of days. [20:37.2 – 20:45.9] But the mental part, like, that's what I think is so interesting about, you know, this, this first step that, like, we're powerless and we have a physical allergy. [20:45.9 – 20:49.6] Like, even when I get separated, you know, the thought comes up. [20:49.6 – 20:54.9] The irresistible thought that, like, I have to go get high and ultimately, like, I make that sacrifice and I do it. [20:54.9 – 20:57.2] I remember I'd been, like, doing so good. [20:57.2 – 21:01.4] I, I'd been on just Suboxone and working out and just good, you know. [21:01.4 – 21:04.7] Like, I think I was using my maintenance drugs, like, pretty much appropriately. [21:04.7 – 21:06.3] And I'm just, like, working out. [21:06.3 – 21:12.2] I'm getting in good shape, and like, I'm just trying to, like, be a good son. [21:12.2 – 21:13.5] You know, I'm back home with my parents. [21:13.5 – 21:21.1] And one day, like, the insane idea comes up that, like, it's a good idea to, like, go get a bag and, like, off to the races again. [21:21.1 – 21:27.0] Um, a-and I don't really have to get into, like, just, like, the back and forth and back and forth and back and forth with it. [21:27.0 – 21:34.3] Um, you know, ultimately, like, you know, the dope got so bad that I just like, you know, wanted to get off that and find something else. [21:34.3 – 21:38.9] I've tried so many different ways of controlling this, you know, from, um, you know, just drinking. [21:38.9 – 21:46.5] Like, I accidentally, I accidentally got into cocaine, uh, which, whi- whi- which was, like, kind of a lifesaver at the time 'cause it was a lot cheaper. [21:46.5 – 21:54.0] Like, I went over to my dope man's house, and, um, you know, on one of those pitiful days, like, where I was crying and showed up and, like, I didn't wanna get high, but like, “Please give me a bag. [21:54.0 – 22:03.6] Like, I'm okay.” Um, you know, just like, “I, I may have, like, ten dollars.” I was like, “Just bust me down a line.” And, and I, and I, you know, I went and snorted a line off a CD case, and he freaks out. [22:03.6 – 22:04.8] My dope man was an alcoholic. [22:04.8 – 22:07.1] Uh, he's drunk and whatever. [22:07.1 – 22:07.9] He's like, “Ah! [22:07.9 – 22:17.7] Like, you just did my coke.” Um, and I guess I inadvertently, like, snorted a line of his coke, which is something else, like, junkies would do that, like, I would never, never do, and, like, I didn't have any interest in it. [22:17.7 – 22:19.0] And like, “Yo! [22:19.0 – 22:22.3] Like, how much is that?” He was like, “I don't know. [22:22.3 – 22:26.3] Like, third of the price of that heroin like you've been buying.” And like, you know, set me up. [22:26.3 – 22:30.9] And I went on an alcohol and cocaine rage for a while, like, just trying to do something different. [22:30.9 – 22:32.6] You know, just thinking I can moderate that. [22:32.6 – 22:33.7] And cocaine was miserable. [22:33.7 – 22:35.5] That's not a drug that I even enjoyed doing. [22:35.5 – 22:40.2] Um, you know, every time, like, I feel like my heart's gonna beat out of my chest, you know. [22:40.2 – 22:43.6] Um, I– for, for whatever reason, I pee a lot, you know. [22:43.6 – 22:48.6] And, um, you know, like, I get real constipated on dope, and so, like, cocaine's really nice 'cause, like, I can actually shit on this drug. [22:48.6 – 22:51.9] Um, you know, and so, like, back and forth to the bathroom, back and forth to the bathroom. [22:51.9 – 22:53.4] Heart's about to explode, you know. [22:53.4 – 22:54.9] Like, don't even like this drug, you know. [22:54.9 – 22:56.5] It lasts, like, five minutes, you know. [22:56.5 – 22:58.3] And y-y'all know how long heroin lasts. [22:58.3 – 23:06.7] Um, you know, and, and my, my parents are like, they're getting worried about me, but not, not from, like, the point that, you know, they think I'm on drugs. [23:06.7 – 23:14.6] They're like, “Why is he going to the bathroom every 30 minutes?” Um, a-a-and I just got absolutely miserable on alcohol. [23:14.6 – 23:15.2] That's what happened. [23:15.2 – 23:20.4] I'm not gonna talk too much about alcohol, but, like, I got to the point where, um, you know, I'm 22 years old. [23:20.4 – 23:23.4] I'm, uh, I'm 140 pounds soaking wet. [23:23.4 – 23:28.8] Uh, I'm not doing opiates anymore just 'cause I can't afford them, and I'm drinking a fifth at a time. [23:28.8 – 23:32.3] Um, uh, the, the party's done. [23:32.3 – 23:36.0] I, I had hit that bottom. [23:36.0 – 23:38.8] Um, I could not get that sensation anymore. [23:38.8 – 23:40.3] I couldn't even get drunk, you know. [23:40.3 – 23:41.8] The last day was, like… [23:41.8 – 23:43.5] I went out. [23:43.5 – 23:47.9] I, I, like, took Xanax and Klonopin in the morning, smoked a bowl. [23:47.9 – 23:51.0] Um, went and drank a six-pack. [23:51.0 – 23:54.6] I went and then drank a bottle of wine, and then I came home and drank almost a fifth. [23:54.6 – 23:57.0] And I didn't get drunk at all during that day. [23:57.0 – 23:59.1] That, that's how high my tolerance went up. [23:59.1 – 24:00.9] I could not even get high. [24:00.9 – 24:08.2] It would not even kill that fear, that sense of anxiety, nothing, and just absolutely beat down and miserable. [24:08.2 – 24:18.5] Um, I, I had to go home and, like, say, like, “Mom, I need help.” And I th- I really think, like, God or something intervened 'cause th-those are something– those are words that I would never say to anybody, “I need help.” [24:18.5 – 24:20.7] Um, and she knew exactly [24:20.8 – 24:21.9] Was, you know, “My kid's on drugs. [24:21.9 – 24:29.1] He can't stop drinking.” And, and by help, I thought she was gonna like take me to, you know, a meeting or like back to the therapist or whatever. [24:29.1 – 24:35.8] She says, “Okay, go to bed.” And the next day I wake up, and it's like, “Get in the car.” Uh, and, and she takes me out to treatment. [24:35.8 – 24:42.8] And like, I'd love to just tell you like I did good, like the second I got into treatment. [24:42.8 – 24:50.0] Uh, but it was one of those stories that like while I wanted it so, so, so bad on that Monday, you know, when I told my mom. [24:50.0 – 24:53.8] I check into treatment, and like I get separated, and like I feel bad. [24:53.8 – 24:58.7] I know like with anything like, yes, I'm addicted to drugs, but like I'm addicted to feeling good. [24:58.7 – 25:01.2] Uh, so I get in a lot of danger when I start feeling bad. [25:01.2 – 25:06.6] Uh, and like I'm going to do something without a solution, without something bigger than me, 'cause it's never really been a choice, right? [25:06.6 – 25:13.0] It's, um, you know, if I'm powerless, like I f- I definitely feel like, you know, I need a power bigger than me to stop it. [25:13.0 – 25:20.1] And, uh, you know, unless I'm chained down or like get a spiritual awakening or something, which I was nowhere near at the time, like, you know, I'm gonna start looking for feeling good. [25:20.1 – 25:28.3] And you know, they have a med line at that treatment center I went to, and like they were giving me, um, phenobarbital and Xanax and like all kinds of things. [25:28.3 – 25:30.8] I was just trying to take extras and, um… [25:30.8 – 25:33.4] And they, they, they gave me like all these rules, right? [25:33.4 – 25:40.6] Like, you know, “Don't go down there,” and like, “Don't go smoke down there.” Um, you know, “Don't, uh, you know, don't smoke cigarettes down here. [25:40.6 – 25:45.9] Don't talk to the girls,” and like, you know, “Don't, don't snort your Subutex.” Uh, that was probably pretty implied. [25:45.9 – 25:46.8] They didn't have to say that. [25:46.8 – 25:53.3] But you know, so like three days in a row, um, you know, they, they caught me smoking in the wrong place. [25:53.3 – 26:01.0] They caught me fraternizing with a girl, and they caught me, um, you know, cheeking a Subutex to take back to my, uh, you know, room and snort. [26:01.0 – 26:03.0] Um, which they frowned pretty hardly upon. [26:03.0 – 26:07.0] Like, they, they could have dealt with the cigarettes or whatever, and they said like, you know, “Bye. [26:07.0 – 26:16.7] We're gonna like refer you to a place in Baton Rouge.” Uh, yeah, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, in the middle of the summer, uh, with all the Cajuns and you know. [26:16.7 – 26:22.6] Yeah, it's no, no bueno, um, where they'll like, they'll treat more difficult cases than yours. [26:22.6 – 26:29.7] And that, that was like gonna be my new home for the next three months, as I understood it. [26:29.7 – 26:32.5] Or if not, like I was gonna be like homeless in Baton Rouge. [26:32.5 – 26:42.7] You know, my parents told me like, “You're not coming home.” And my wife asked me like, she– Right before we got married, um, back in twenty seventeen, she asked me like, [26:42.7 – 26:46.0] you know, we were going through this like test to like try to get to know each other a little better. [26:46.0 – 26:50.9] She's like, “What was the best memory of your life, and what was the worst memory of your life?” The best like took me a while to get to. [26:50.9 – 26:53.8] It's probably one of those like platitudes of like, you know, when I met you, um. [26:53.8 – 26:56.4] Which was like great. [26:56.4 – 26:57.0] Yeah, sure. [26:57.0 – 26:57.9] Um, you know. [26:57.9 – 26:59.7] And she was a newcomer in AA. [26:59.7 – 27:04.4] Uh, um, but the worst was, it was instant. [27:04.4 – 27:14.6] Like, I knew instantly what was the worst memory of my life, was like after I got kicked out of, um, you know, that treatment facility, uh, on March third of, um, [27:14.6 – 27:17.7] you know, twenty twelve, which incidentally is my mom's birthday. [27:17.7 – 27:28.0] And my mom had to drive from Huntsville with my eight-month pregnant little sister to pick me up at that treatment center and drive me all the way from [27:28.0 – 27:33.6] Warrior, Alabama, down to Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and home on my mom's forty-second birthday. [27:33.6 – 27:37.5] Which I didn't give two shits about that they were involved in this. [27:37.5 – 27:42.5] Um, you know, like I didn't have the capacity to really care that my sister's pregnant or it's my mom's birthday or anything. [27:42.5 – 27:47.1] But I realized I'm pulling out of treatment, and they're gonna take everything from me. [27:47.1 – 27:48.6] They don't have a med line. [27:48.6 – 27:51.5] You know, there, there's no Suboxones to get. [27:51.5 – 28:01.7] And they, um, are gonna lock me down for ninety days, and the worst memory of my life was knowing that like I'm gonna be locked down and not be able to get high for ninety fucking days. [28:01.7 – 28:04.8] Um, and I just wept. [28:04.8 – 28:12.1] I remember just being in the back of my mom's car and just like crying, uh, 'cause I knew like everything was being stripped away from me. [28:12.1 – 28:18.9] And they checked me in, and like, it s- it felt like a sense of relief, but like I had so much trouble with what they were telling me to do. [28:18.9 – 28:22.4] Like, I'm so, so grateful for that place 'cause it was like my first introduction to like AA. [28:22.4 – 28:24.7] HA was not in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, at the time. [28:24.7 – 28:25.7] I don't think it's there yet. [28:25.7 – 28:35.8] And so like I, I, I bucked was the, the term they used around there is like they gave you all these arbitrary rules like, “Get up at [28:35.8 – 28:36.8] six in the morning. [28:36.8 – 28:38.9] Um, make your bed. [28:38.9 – 28:43.4] Uh, don't dip in the house.” You know, similar rules like to what I had at the other place. [28:43.4 – 28:45.8] And like I was just sick of it. [28:45.8 – 28:51.9] After like a week, I was so ready to go, and I go and tell the counselor like, “I can't deal with this. [28:51.9 – 28:53.7] You know, I'm like ready to go. [28:53.7 – 28:57.5] I cannot deal with all these arbitrary rules or whatever.” And this was like one of the best like lessons I learned. [28:57.5 – 28:59.8] He says like, “You are having a problem with acceptance. [28:59.8 – 29:10.0] Um, like you just need to learn how to accept, you know, your circumstances.” And what was really beautiful is like, I hated it at the time, but he's like, “Go ask [29:10.0 – 29:18.6] all your friends, you know, your sixteen other closest friends that are here, like ask them how you should go about getting acceptance.” I was like, “Fuck it,” you know, whatever. [29:18.6 – 29:21.3] And I went out, and like I went one by one. [29:21.3 – 29:29.1] You know, I went to, I went to these guys, and it was the stupidest challenge 'cause, I mean, these are like sixteen detoxing guys like just like me that have no idea what's going on. [29:29.1 – 29:39.2] And, and they just like give you platitudes, and one is like, “Hey, John, like how do I accept that I'm in treatment and like want to get high and like my counselor's a dick?” Uh, “E- easy [29:39.2 – 29:46.6] does it, man.” You know, you go on to the next guy, you know, Carl, like, you know, “How do I accept it?” Like, you know. [29:46.6 – 29:49.0] “Live and let live. [29:49.0 – 29:56.5] Work the steps.” And like, “What the hell you know about working steps, you know?” Uh, a- and like I finally get to like the last guy on my list. [29:56.5 – 29:59.0] Um, his name was Brent, and he, uh… [29:59.0 – 30:00.1] This is not the Birmingham Brent. [30:00.1 – 30:00.9] This is a different Brent. [30:00.9 – 30:03.2] Um, this guy was, uh… [30:03.2 – 30:05.0] I don't know if y'all ever heard the term wook. [30:05.0 – 30:05.9] He, he was a wook. [30:05.9 – 30:08.3] Uh, you know, he was spun out. [30:08.3 – 30:09.6] He sold acid for a living. [30:09.6 – 30:19.4] And, uh, the only reason he was in treatment is because he ran around with like this family of folks out in, uh, California, and they, uh, gave him a hundred hits of acid without his knowledge. [30:19.4 – 30:23.4] Uh, if anybody's ever taken acid, like you probably get like a whole… [30:23.4 – 30:30.2] Hundred hits is like enough to put down like- All y'all sitting out there and like a couple of more people. [30:30.2 – 30:33.7] And this guy was fried, absolutely fried when he got treatment. [30:33.7 – 30:38.4] And I, I go up to him and, uh, like he's still like tripping at the time. [30:38.4 – 30:48.8] And like, “Brent, you know, like, how do I, like, accept that I'm here?” And the guy says to me, you know, he's like looking through like– He was telling me he's seeing like numbers and like hexagons [30:48.8 – 30:49.2] at the time. [30:49.2 – 30:53.2] And he like peers through the numbers and hexagons and is like, “I don't know, man. [30:53.2 – 31:03.2] Like, just do what they tell you to do and quit fighting it.” Best spiritual advice I've ever gotten from anybody was a man that was high [31:03.2 – 31:03.7] on acid. [31:03.7 – 31:05.3] And that was beautiful. [31:05.3 – 31:12.0] He told me, “Just quit fighting it.” And I said, “You know, like, I'm sure that won't work, Brent, because you're high on drugs. [31:12.0 – 31:16.1] Um, but you know, I'll give this a try.” And like a total one eighty the next day. [31:16.1 – 31:20.0] Like, they thought I was full of shit because I was having so much fun in treatment. [31:20.0 – 31:20.9] I'm showing up. [31:20.9 – 31:23.0] They're like, “Go to the meetings,” you know? [31:23.0 – 31:27.3] And like, I'd go to the six thirty meeting and like I'm actually starting to hear what they're talking about. [31:27.3 – 31:28.3] You know what I mean? [31:28.3 – 31:34.9] Um, I'm actually starting to like get interested in what AA was, uh, where I got sober at the time. [31:34.9 – 31:37.1] And it, it was like freaking sketchy, you know? [31:37.1 – 31:45.3] And they were like trying to get me involved, um, and read the readings and like AA meetings in Baton Rouge were like totally different than, um, you know, where they were i-in Birmingham. [31:45.3 – 31:50.3] Um, there'd be like a hundred and fifty to two hundred people in there on a noon meeting. [31:50.3 – 31:52.2] It, it packed. [31:52.2 – 31:53.3] Packed, packed, packed, packed. [31:53.3 – 31:54.1] And these guys were serious. [31:54.1 – 31:54.9] It was like old timers and shit. [31:54.9 – 31:58.3] They're like, “Read How It Works.” I've never seen this reading before. [31:58.3 – 32:06.2] And they're like– And I'm like still like so like anxious and like I'm just like trying so hard to like shake my way through this reading. [32:06.2 – 32:14.5] Um, and five minutes later, and like about pissing my pants later, like I, I did something for AA. [32:14.5 – 32:16.8] I was of service to a group. [32:16.8 – 32:19.3] Um, and that, and that wasn't necessarily lost on me. [32:19.3 – 32:25.2] And like people came up, and they knew my name, and they started like introducing themselves and whatever. [32:25.2 – 32:28.8] And, and that was like a really cool experience, and I like started to wanna get involved with that more and more. [32:28.8 – 32:31.4] But like I didn't really fit– feel like I fit in with those guys. [32:31.4 – 32:37.5] Um, yeah, they were nice, but like they knew like I came in on a druggy buggy and, uh, you know, from treatment. [32:37.5 – 32:45.8] And they're like, “You know, I'm not the one that's like seriously gonna stick around.” I'm like, “Nobody was like really that tight to me.” And I get out of like nine months or, uh, ninety days in treatment there, sorry. [32:45.8 – 32:50.8] Three months, ninety days of treatment there, and I end up in, uh, the sober living out in Birmingham. [32:50.8 – 32:56.4] And that was where the first HA meeting in Alabama was. [32:56.4 – 33:06.5] It, it might– We're still a little shaky on the history there, uh, because we, we think it got started in, uh, you know, maybe at the end of twenty eleven or like the very [33:06.5 – 33:07.6] beginning of twenty twelve. [33:07.6 – 33:10.6] We, we– Atlanta might have had HA before that. [33:10.6 – 33:16.0] Uh, but we think that might have been like the oldest HA meeting like on the East Coast if there wasn't one in Atlanta. [33:16.0 – 33:17.4] Not a hundred percent. [33:17.4 – 33:21.6] And what was just crazy is like I didn't really want to go to this meeting. [33:21.6 – 33:26.6] But for the halfway house, like they had a requirement that you had to go to a meeting every day, right? [33:26.6 – 33:33.5] Um, and so it, it was one day like Brent, you know, some of y'all know and hate him. [33:33.5 – 33:35.2] Uh, he's, he's – … [33:35.2 – 33:37.5] you know, Birmingham Brent, not high on acid Brent. [33:37.5 – 33:40.6] Like, he's around and like he's like the guy that I cannot relate to. [33:40.6 – 33:50.7] Um, I, I came from like the polo OxyContin snorters, um, polo-wearing OxyContin snorters, and Brent's like the under the bridge, like T-shirt that's five sizes too big with like holes ripped in it and like hair that's [33:50.7 – 33:53.6] like frizzed out to here and like smells like, you know, cigarette smoke. [33:53.6 – 33:58.1] Um, you know, and, and like I didn't trust the guy. [33:58.1 – 33:59.6] I was like, “He's gonna steal all my shit, you know? [33:59.6 – 34:01.6] I'm gonna stay away from him.” Um- … [34:01.6 – 34:09.7] but like it was a Monday night, and like I had to hit a meeting, and he says, “Just like come across the street with us.” And like I didn't wanna admit the fact that like I was a heroin addict. [34:09.7 – 34:15.4] I was the guy that came in, um, that primarily had like, you know, OxyContin experience. [34:15.4 – 34:18.2] Um, you know, socially acceptable OxyContin experience. [34:18.2 – 34:28.0] And like that was stuff that like I never really wanted to admit to that like there was a time in my addiction that like for, for, you know, lack of everything else and, um, his drug of choice was like heroin at a time. [34:28.0 – 34:36.4] But like I coulda gone to my grave, you know, not telling anybody that I ever did heroin, um, whilst I obsessed about it in the back of my halfway house. [34:36.4 – 34:43.2] And Brent drags me across to this meeting, and it was so different than the hundred and fifty people like AA meetings. [34:43.2 – 34:49.8] I think like God gave me the meeting for like the very antisocial, like socially awkward, anxious man. [34:49.8 – 34:56.1] Um, and that was ground zero Heroin Anonymous, uh, that met at this halfway house, whose membership was five. [34:56.1 – 34:59.6] There was five fucking heroin addicts in this meeting. [34:59.6 – 35:00.3] And it was a joke. [35:00.3 – 35:02.9] The halfway house like barely gave us credit for going there. [35:02.9 – 35:10.3] Uh, you know, and the guy with the most time in the room had, I don't know, six months when I showed up. [35:10.3 – 35:11.6] That was the old-timer. [35:11.6 – 35:17.8] And so me with ninety days and the guy with six months, you know, like there is not a big like gap here. [35:17.8 – 35:19.7] But like that was the guy I looked up to. [35:19.7 – 35:24.3] And what blew my mind as I walked in, and like he just like said, you know, “Who are you? [35:24.3 – 35:25.3] What is your name? [35:25.3 – 35:35.5] Will you please read this reading?” Um, and, and like that seems really surface level, but like those five guys in that [35:35.5 – 35:39.8] HA meeting were like the first group of people that really wanted me. [35:39.8 – 35:40.8] You know? [35:40.8 – 35:44.9] 'Cause it was just like I'd burned all those bridges with my parents, my friends. [35:44.9 – 35:46.0] I had nothing left. [35:46.0 – 35:50.1] I'd left Huntsville, and I bounced from Baton Rouge, Louisiana to Birmingham. [35:50.1 – 35:51.4] I didn't know a fucking soul. [35:51.4 – 35:57.9] But those five guys in Heroin Anonymous in Birmingham, Alabama welcomed me and asked me what my name was. [35:57.9 – 35:60.0] And I learned everybody's name in the meeting. [35:60.0 – 36:05.3] And they said like, “Will you please read these readings?” You know, which I learned what How It Works was by that time. [36:05.3 – 36:08.0] Um, they said like, “Do you have a sponsor? [36:08.0 – 36:15.0] Like you need to get one.” And they set me up with my first sponsor, John, who, um, unfortunately relapsed, and I, I got a new one. [36:15.0 – 36:16.9] But I started working steps with these guys. [36:16.9 – 36:22.0] And so what I think is really important with Heroin Anonymous is, you know, it's, it's two things. [36:22.0 – 36:22.5] There's… [36:22.5 – 36:27.5] Yes, there's the steps, which are absolutely critical, and I needed to work those. [36:27.5 – 36:30.8] Um, but there, there's also the fellowship [36:31.4 – 36:40.1] And I would not have gotten this if I was just mailed a big book or, and maybe issued a sponsor and like had nowhere to find a fellowship with any heroin addicts like me. [36:40.1 – 36:43.3] Um, no drug addicts in recovery like me that I could relate to and help me out. [36:43.3 – 36:47.0] I would not have gotten this on my own if I was just working steps and that was it, I don't think. [36:47.0 – 36:52.6] Like I needed a new set of, of, of, you know, people that were there to help me out. [36:52.6 – 36:56.3] And I, and I started working steps with my sponsor. [36:56.3 – 37:00.1] Um, and he started getting me back and granted to life. [37:00.1 – 37:00.9] And it was really neat. [37:00.9 – 37:10.2] Like, yeah, I, I, I was at a, a meeting like probably a month ago and the guy did the topic and it was just out of there as a solution. [37:10.2 – 37:18.9] This– there's a guy who picked up a 11-year chip that day and all he did for topic was he read that paragraph and there is a solution that says, um, yeah, I got it. [37:18.9 – 37:22.5] Yeah, this, this is a g- this is a good one. [37:22.5 – 37:25.6] I'm not gonna try to paraphrase it, uh, 'cause I, I'll definitely mess this up. [37:25.6 – 37:33.2] Um, and, and he, he reads, you know, the great fact is just this and nothing less. [37:33.2 – 37:36.6] And about the time he hits this, he just starts fucking crying. [37:36.6 – 37:46.8] Uh, I know this guy, he's got 11 years and he says, you know, that we have had deep and effective spiritual experiences which have revolutionized our whole attitude toward [37:46.8 – 37:49.3] life, toward our fellows, and towards God's universe. [37:49.3 – 37:56.6] The central fact of our lives today is the absolute certainty that our creator has entered into our hearts and lives in a way that is indeed miraculous. [37:56.6 – 38:01.6] He's commenced to accomplish those things for w- for us, which we could never done by ourselves. [38:01.6 – 38:07.6] Um, he didn't– the guy didn't even share after that. [38:07.6 – 38:09.8] Like he got the message across. [38:09.8 – 38:12.2] He was just crying and I knew what it was. [38:12.2 – 38:22.7] He was just so grateful that like he had had that spiritual experience and that's, you know, all he needed to do is just read it and, you know, a-and his voice said everything. [38:22.7 – 38:28.4] And, and like I, I about started crying in the middle of this meeting 'cause like I knew exactly what he was saying. [38:28.4 – 38:36.0] Um, somewhere, somewhere in these steps that, you know, an entire, an entire change happened. [38:36.0 – 38:38.0] You know, these, um, uh, Dr. [38:38.0 – 38:39.7] Young talks about it somewhere in the book. [38:39.7 – 38:49.8] You know, that, you know, these ideas and attitudes which used to be the guiding forces of our lives, you know, um, are suddenly cast to one side and a completely new set of ideas and attitudes, you know, and outlooks, you know, begins [38:49.8 – 38:50.3] to dominate us. [38:50.3 – 39:00.9] And so while my life was ran on, you know, r- like these bad ideas like running away, um, fear, like running over you to get what I want, [39:00.9 – 39:05.8] uh, the, these like s- these are like the loud voices in my head, right? [39:05.8 – 39:12.2] And so like working through the steps, like slowly but surely, like these get smaller and smaller and smaller and these ideas get bigger and bigger. [39:12.2 – 39:14.7] They, they seem so stupid, like admitting that I needed help. [39:14.7 – 39:17.4] You know, like that's an idea I would never like, you know, implemented. [39:17.4 – 39:20.6] Um, trying to help somebody else out. [39:20.6 – 39:21.8] You know, being honest. [39:21.8 – 39:27.4] Um, you know, looking out for my fellow man and just like trying to like, you know, do something right in my life. [39:27.4 – 39:31.5] Like these get like louder and louder and louder and like these old ideas like suddenly get cast aside. [39:31.5 – 39:41.9] And so like working through the steps, it, it, it really started blowing my mind, you know, what happened 'cause I was such like an anxious person, so like awkward and like, you know, terrified and like the biggest idea of all these bad ones that like [39:41.9 – 39:46.1] I thought worked for me, um, was that like drugs and alcohol worked for me. [39:46.1 – 39:48.2] And it, it was really kind of crazy. [39:48.2 – 39:55.7] Like I first got my first evidence that like the steps were working when I was like working in this Mexican restaurant, uh, that like I thought was totally beneath me. [39:55.7 – 39:59.5] Um, as you know, I had decent jobs beforehand and like I got my recovery job. [39:59.5 – 40:04.5] I'm like working in this Mexican restaurant with a bunch of people in recovery waiting tables, which is absolutely terrifying. [40:04.5 – 40:06.5] Like having to go up to people and like talk to them. [40:06.5 – 40:10.0] Uh, you know, I'd much rather would like cut lemons in the back for two thirteen an hour. [40:10.0 – 40:20.1] And yeah, and so, and somewhere like, you know, between my– somewhere between like fourth step and ninth step, you know, I worked at, I worked at the [40:20.1 – 40:30.1] restaurant the whole time I was working through the steps and somewhere between that like I, I realized like I was actually happy to be at this dead-end [40:30.1 – 40:30.6] job. [40:30.6 – 40:40.6] Um, I wasn't afraid of like walking up to this table and like talking to folks and I hadn't looked across over at that bar, you know, in a long time and started like wondering what's [40:40.6 – 40:43.9] up with that, you know, um, that tequila sign that was over there. [40:43.9 – 40:49.0] And something was happening 'cause as bad as I thought that before, like I never could have done that on my own. [40:49.0 – 40:50.8] Um, that, that was not in my own power. [40:50.8 – 40:52.8] Just something was happening. [40:52.8 – 41:02.8] And, you know, get, get through all the steps and like that, that problem has just been totally removed, um, to where it, it's not even an [41:02.8 – 41:03.3] issue anymore. [41:03.3 – 41:05.1] Like I can't, I can't even like make this… [41:05.1 – 41:10.5] I can't say it enough that like I'm not fighting heroin any longer. [41:10.5 – 41:12.2] It's just not a problem. [41:12.2 – 41:18.3] Um, through working through the steps and like trying to stay at the front of my life, um, you know, and stay plugged into Heroin Anonymous. [41:18.3 – 41:20.2] My sponsor likes to talk about, you know, power. [41:20.2 – 41:30.3] That if we came here powerless, we have to find power, which is really troublesome 'cause like I didn't know where God was and I, and I didn't know like how to, um, find [41:30.3 – 41:30.4] him. [41:30.4 – 41:33.8] And he said something that's like, you know, we, we don't have to figure this out. [41:33.8 – 41:42.2] That, you know, I don't have to understand that, you know, the nuclear reactor where the power comes from to understand how to plug into it. [41:42.2 – 41:45.2] It's like, dude, we just like have to find you the outlet. [41:45.2 – 41:45.7] That's it. [41:45.7 – 41:47.2] You know, they're all over the place. [41:47.2 – 41:48.1] You know, there's outlets right here. [41:48.1 – 41:51.1] I can go look around right now and like I can find a way to get to that power. [41:51.1 – 41:53.8] He didn't care like I didn't know what God was. [41:53.8 – 41:58.4] Like he still made me pray and stuff like that and like meditate. [41:58.4 – 42:01.1] We're just trying to find a plug and like that's what Heroin Anonymous has been. [42:01.1 – 42:02.2] Like that has been a plug. [42:02.2 – 42:06.9] And after like I got out of treatment and whatever, um, you know, like I had some hard experiences. [42:06.9 – 42:15.2] Like I got through the steps and like I was doing well and I, uh, I ended up moving in with two guys that were in, um, they were in recovery. [42:15.2 – 42:20.1] Both of them had like a year or two and, uh, they were like never home and like I found myself very alone again. [42:20.1 – 42:23.7] Like I wasn't with the 50 halfway house guys anymore. [42:23.7 – 42:33.3] And like I, I got into, you know, I was really, really into this girl and I was dating her for a little while and she, um, she broke it off with me is basically what happened. [42:33.3 – 42:37.0] And Yeah, I was, I was just like heartbroken. [42:37.0 – 42:38.1] I was really into this girl. [42:38.1 – 42:48.9] And I get a phone call as I'm coming home from work one day that, you know, she is home with my roommate, you know, now, [42:48.9 – 42:52.7] and she's like with him now, um, I guess is what happened. [42:52.7 – 42:54.7] And like I, I was absolutely furious. [42:54.7 – 43:01.4] I, I went– I was driving home and, and it was like that story I was telling earlier that like I was convinced I was gonna kill my roommate. [43:01.4 – 43:02.9] Like that absolutely flashed back up. [43:02.9 – 43:08.0] And like I was scared I was really gonna hurt this guy, whatever, and like I, I had to do something. [43:08.0 – 43:16.8] I'm not even like one minute away from my house and, and a sponsee calls me that's ready to go get high. [43:16.8 – 43:19.6] Um, he is on the way to the dope man. [43:19.6 – 43:22.8] And I stopped. [43:22.8 – 43:25.2] Like I could not drive home. [43:25.2 – 43:30.3] Like his shit was absolutely more important than me going home and trying to break my roommate's nose. [43:30.3 – 43:33.5] And like I stopped and I talked to him. [43:33.5 – 43:39.2] And what was, what was crazy about this is like I just shared with him my experience of like going through the same thing he's gone through before. [43:39.2 – 43:43.6] And he, um, he didn't get high. [43:43.6 – 43:48.5] And he taught me like, you know, if he can call his sponsor, you know, why the hell am I not calling mine? [43:48.5 – 43:56.9] I stopped and I called my sponsor, and he's like, “You need to, you know, just go to breaking point.” Oh, this was the new HA meeting that had just started up there. [43:56.9 – 43:58.2] And that's what I did. [43:58.2 – 44:04.7] This was at a time where like a new HA meeting was starting in the middle of Birmingham, and that, that's my home group I was telling you guys about. [44:04.7 – 44:09.3] And we, we were a meeting of like five people, okay? [44:09.3 – 44:11.8] Like out there at that, that first meeting we started this thing. [44:11.8 – 44:16.0] And I swear to God like, you know, we, we were hoping like twelve people would show up at this meeting. [44:16.0 – 44:18.6] We like put it downtown hoping like some heroin addicts would get it. [44:18.6 – 44:22.9] Um, we hoped like maybe twelve people would show up, you know? [44:22.9 – 44:25.4] Like we knew obviously there was more like, uh, heroin in the city. [44:25.4 – 44:30.7] And um, you know, that first day sixty people showed up. [44:30.7 – 44:35.6] Um, just people that had never seen anything like this that were just so grateful. [44:35.6 – 44:43.9] Uh, and it was that same experience as like the first meeting I'd went to is like, you know, dude, if you don't step up and like start chairing these meetings, you know, no one else is gonna do it. [44:43.9 – 44:48.0] If you don't, you know, talk to the newcomer after the meeting, no one else is gonna do it, you know? [44:48.0 – 44:51.3] There's six of y'all that had sober for any period of time and fifty-four newcomers. [44:51.3 – 44:54.0] Like, you know, here's a whole new load of sponsees. [44:54.0 – 44:59.3] And it just completely like threw me into HA service. [44:59.3 – 45:02.1] It, it was the, the coolest thing I could really describe. [45:02.1 – 45:03.8] Like this meeting took off. [45:03.8 – 45:06.6] Um, and I started taking on some service positions. [45:06.6 – 45:12.8] You know, they, um, they made me secretary of this group and like had me taking notes in there, which, which was fun. [45:12.8 – 45:18.8] Um, but after a while I like got involved in general service and, you know, was chairing the business meetings at that. [45:18.8 – 45:20.8] And uh, and I started meeting a whole lot of people. [45:20.8 – 45:31.0] Like I, I threw the steps and like, you know, just found this super, super wonderful fellowship in HA which just carried me on, um, for the past, you know, X amount [45:31.0 – 45:31.6] of years. [45:31.6 – 45:36.2] And it's, it's been really neat to like see it just grow. [45:36.2 – 45:39.0] Like we got out to go to Portland, um, last year. [45:39.0 – 45:42.1] They had their, um, their world convention in Portland. [45:42.1 – 45:45.7] And you know, I, I met heroin addicts from all over the place. [45:45.7 – 45:49.5] You know, like they're doing the same thing that you guys are doing out here in Atlanta. [45:49.5 – 45:51.0] They're doing it in Arizona. [45:51.0 – 45:52.2] They're doing it in California. [45:52.2 – 45:54.0] They're doing it in New York apparently. [45:54.0 – 45:56.6] Like there's a whole gang full of them in New York that are staying sober. [45:56.6 – 45:59.3] Um, you know, they're doing it in North Carolina. [45:59.3 – 46:01.4] Apparently, there's some guys in Florida trying to start one. [46:01.4 – 46:04.7] You know, there's folks doing Heroin Anonymous like all over this country now. [46:04.7 – 46:08.7] And all I knew of it like way back when, when I came in was just like the five of us. [46:08.7 – 46:18.8] Uh, and it blew my mind that like I can go across the country and sit down and like with people from like areas I've never even been to or like talked to, and like within like five minutes, like [46:18.8 – 46:19.6] I get it, you know? [46:19.6 – 46:24.2] And they, they welcome me and, you know, we just have that common bond and that common solution. [46:24.2 – 46:32.5] It's been really neat to like see, um, you know, our area take off and to like get ingrained with Atlanta and see what you guys are doing out here. [46:32.5 – 46:37.1] Like I'm beyond excited to see this, you know, world convention you guys are throwing here in twenty twenty. [46:37.1 – 46:40.8] And I know a lot of you guys that are involved with the service in that. [46:40.8 – 46:51.1] And the people that are involved with service, um, those are some of the ones I see that have like the most energy, uh, you know, the most happiness [46:51.1 – 46:56.1] in their life, you know, and the ones that are doing the thing 'cause they're setting the stage for the new guy to come in. [46:56.1 – 47:02.3] You know, I got involved with this public information committee, which, which was just like– It's not the glamorous one. [47:02.3 – 47:03.9] You know, activities is glamorous, you know? [47:03.9 – 47:07.3] Throwing these events is like wonderful and like having a party and like playing music. [47:07.3 – 47:10.4] Like that's, that's what I kinda like to do, um, in my home group. [47:10.4 – 47:20.5] But I got involved with this like just God awful like public information committee, um, where it's like we're– we, we literally– Last week we argued for like [47:20.5 – 47:23.7] a half hour about like should we give these guys pamphlets? [47:23.7 – 47:25.5] Uh, you know? [47:25.5 – 47:28.2] It, it was just, it was terrible. [47:28.2 – 47:30.9] You know, we argue about the Facebook page and stuff like that. [47:30.9 – 47:41.0] Um, and it's, it's so funny at the end of the day, um, when we just stop and realize like we're both arguing about like the same end goal is like how can we [47:41.0 – 47:43.6] carry the message to the heroin addict who's still suffering? [47:43.6 – 47:51.4] You know, can I get this flyer into a halfway house and tell the next heroin addict that like does not know about Heroin Anonymous that Heroin Anonymous is here? [47:51.4 – 47:54.2] Um, and it's a lot of fun. [47:54.2 – 47:55.2] Like don't get me wrong. [47:55.2 – 47:57.4] Um, and, and like I absolutely love it. [47:57.4 – 48:01.7] And you know, I've just met so many wonderful people like doing the service that route. [48:01.7 – 48:11.1] And that, that, you know, gives me a lot of hope that hopefully the next person that's out there and looking for help like this might be able to find it and, you know, get sober because of it. [48:11.1 – 48:13.6] So I, I'm running about out of steam. [48:13.6 – 48:16.4] I really appreciate you guys letting me come out here tonight and letting me speak. [48:16.4 – 48:17.3] You know, go you guys. [48:17.3 – 48:17.9] Thanks for letting me share. [48:17.9 – 48:33.5] Let's [48:33.5 – 48:34.6] circle up and pray, man. [48:34.6 – 48:35.0] Circle up. [48:35.0 – 48:35.8] Yeah. [48:35.8 – 48:39.2] I love you.