Listen to Audio Recording

[00:00:00.080 – 00:00:00.480] Well, hi. [00:00:00.480 – 00:00:02.440] I'm Tom Winter, an alcoholic. [00:00:02.440 – 00:00:03.690] Hi, Tom. [00:00:03.690 – 00:00:10.840] A member of the Primary Purpose group in Southern Pines, North Carolina, and, uh, delighted to be here today part- for this event. [00:00:10.840 – 00:00:20.420] This is, uh, closest to the heart of my many commitments in service, but this one is central to everything that I am and believe and strive for. [00:00:20.420 – 00:00:22.460] So I, I am absolutely delighted to be here. [00:00:22.460 – 00:00:27.800] I've appreciated the, um, the, the program today, some really good stuff.

[00:00:27.800 – 00:00:30.020] Y'all got trouble in Arizona. [00:00:30.020 – 00:00:30.980] Man, I'm going home. [00:00:30.980 – 00:00:33.820] I got … [00:00:33.820 – 00:00:39.280] No, no, you got some good stuff going on and a lot of it, a lot of moving parts. [00:00:39.280 – 00:00:43.380] Uh, great to be with some old buddies here from, uh, Canada. [00:00:43.380 – 00:00:46.520] And, and, and, uh, Garnet, he won't admit it in Phoenix. [00:00:46.520 – 00:00:48.780] Everybody thinks he's a rich Yankee from New York. [00:00:48.780 – 00:00:52.120] But he, he is from Saskatchewan. [00:00:52.120 – 00:01:02.280] And, uh, and I've known that fella for a long, long time, and it's just great to see a, a bunch of old friends here and who are close to me, and I, I'm,

[00:01:02.280 – 00:01:03.240] I just feel like I'm at home. [00:01:03.240 – 00:01:07.700] Now, what I wanna do, well, I'd love to just tell you everything. [00:01:07.700 – 00:01:12.670] If I didn't talk so slow, I would. [00:01:12.670 – 00:01:16.540] But it would take, it'd take me an awful long time to, to tell it. [00:01:16.540 – 00:01:20.200] But I wanna t- I wanna tell my s- my story. [00:01:20.200 – 00:01:27.400] Jim Estell said, "Tell your story." And I said, "Okay, I'm going to do it." And, uh, so I do. [00:01:27.400 – 00:01:33.500] I w- I wanna tell you about my own, uh, what I was like and what happened, what I'm like now.

[00:01:33.500 – 00:01:43.580] And, and then I'd, I'd like to finish with talking about, uh, uh, some of the concerns in CFC and H&I and all of that stuff that I have and, and some experience in that regard as [00:01:43.580 – 00:01:43.820] well. [00:01:43.820 – 00:01:48.340] So let me just tell you that I'll, I'll just cut right to the chase. [00:01:48.340 – 00:01:56.540] Uh, you know, I'm a fella who found himself sitting in a maximum custody penitentiary at the age of 24. [00:01:56.540 – 00:02:03.520] And when I came to my senses in that place and took a look at who I was and where I was and what had happened and…

[00:02:03.520 – 00:02:06.140] My higher power, could you make water appear? [00:02:06.140 – 00:02:09.160] Greg's my higher power this weekend. [00:02:09.160 – 00:02:13.209] And boy been yanking me, yanking me around. [00:02:13.209 – 00:02:17.299] I thought he would just say, "Let there be water." And … [00:02:17.299 – 00:02:18.680] But no such luck. [00:02:18.680 – 00:02:25.620] Uh, when I found myself sitting in that place and, and I mean, of course, I was aware of time and place. [00:02:25.620 – 00:02:27.800] I knew the address of where I was. [00:02:27.800 – 00:02:38.420] But, but you know what I'm talking about, when the fog lifted and I started to see myself in clear focus, probably for the first time in, in most of my entire life, and

[00:02:38.420 – 00:02:42.260] took a look at who I was, where I was, what my life had become. [00:02:42.260 – 00:02:48.640] I was, um, I was a fella who, who, who put, found pretty gloomy prospects. [00:02:48.640 – 00:02:49.700] Great, buddy. [00:02:49.700 – 00:02:50.680] Thank you so much. [00:02:50.680 – 00:02:55.160] Uh, you didn't know that's what president meant, did you? [00:02:55.160 – 00:02:58.220] It's service work. [00:02:58.220 – 00:03:03.520] And so it was gloomy prospects. [00:03:03.520 – 00:03:06.080] Uh, I'm sitting in a maximum custody penitentiary. [00:03:06.080 – 00:03:08.040] I'm 24 years old. [00:03:08.040 – 00:03:17.420] I'm at a point in life where most people are just beginning to live, and I'm sitting in a place where life seemed to have ended.

[00:03:17.420 – 00:03:26.920] Uh, when I, when I came to, to, to my senses there, took a look at where I was, I didn't believe I would ever walk out of that place alive. [00:03:26.920 – 00:03:37.100] And I was at a point in, in, in, in life where I truly did not care because I wasn't sitting there because [00:03:37.100 – 00:03:38.160] I was a nice fella. [00:03:38.160 – 00:03:44.580] N- nor was I there because I was a predatory criminal who was a, who was, who was a gangster or anything like that.

[00:03:44.580 – 00:03:54.880] Uh, I was one of those people that come along far too often in the alcoholic population who winds up doing something that's, that's, that's among [00:03:54.880 – 00:04:02.040] our greatest fears, and that's doing something to, to, to injure other people in a way that can't be fixed. [00:04:02.040 – 00:04:12.060] And so when I took a look, not only at who I was, where I was, where I was sitting, I looked back at a life that was a, a, that was a bad dream any way you looked at

[00:04:12.060 – 00:04:16.040] it, and it was culminated with taking the lives of two people. [00:04:16.040 – 00:04:22.480] Now, I don't have any question that I had absolutely no ill intent, no intention whatsoever. [00:04:22.480 – 00:04:28.950] The fact of the business is that like anybody would be in a blackout, I didn't know what had happened. [00:04:28.950 – 00:04:33.880] I just knew that I had been responsible for the, for the deaths of two people. [00:04:33.880 – 00:04:37.860] I could say that it was an unavoidable accident, and I'm certainly, certain it was. [00:04:37.860 – 00:04:40.100] But the fact is I simply didn't know.

[00:04:40.100 – 00:04:50.140] All I knew was that there were two fine young people in the city of Flint, Michigan, trying to cross the main street of the city, and a guy like me came barreling down the [00:04:50.140 – 00:04:54.160] road blind drunk, blacked out, and struck them with a car. [00:04:54.160 – 00:04:58.140] And, and, and so it was over for them and, and I thought for me. [00:04:58.140 – 00:05:04.740] And, and I, uh, truly, truly had absolutely no concern about future or if there would be one. [00:05:04.740 – 00:05:14.840] At that point, I was so full of shame and guilt and remorse that, that, that I was, I was ashamed to be breathing when two fine young people

[00:05:14.840 – 00:05:15.580] no longer were. [00:05:15.580 – 00:05:24.560] And when I look back on that life, my, my– that's not the story of a nice, young, preppy fellow on the way to a party who had a, a tragic accident. [00:05:24.560 – 00:05:31.460] That was the culmination of a life that was pretty bad news any way you looked at it. [00:05:31.460 – 00:05:40.620] When I reviewed the first 24 years of that life, I couldn't find one single thing that I could point to with any sense of pride or accomplishment.

[00:05:40.620 – 00:05:50.800] You know, most people can look back and say, "Well, at least I did that." I honest to God couldn't think of one thing that I had done planfully to satisfaction that I could [00:05:50.800 – 00:05:52.240] have, have any pride about. [00:05:52.240 – 00:06:00.120] I couldn't think of one single person who had ever been associated with me that didn't regret it or should have. [00:06:00.120 – 00:06:04.580] Now anybody that I got close to, uh, got dirty in the process. [00:06:04.580 – 00:06:07.020] They got used, abused, misused. [00:06:07.020 – 00:06:12.076] Lied to, stolen from, hurt in every way imaginable.

[00:06:12.076 – 00:06:15.016] And, and that was an abso- that was my legacy. [00:06:15.016 – 00:06:16.516] I mean, that's not a soap opera. [00:06:16.516 – 00:06:17.715] That was my legacy. [00:06:17.715 – 00:06:19.396] That's exactly who I was. [00:06:19.396 – 00:06:24.696] I'd never held a job for as much as a year except the Army, and I didn't want to hold that one for a year. [00:06:24.696 – 00:06:27.276] But I got in, and they wouldn't let me out. [00:06:27.276 – 00:06:29.476] I, I mean, I didn't like it but about 30 minutes. [00:06:29.476 – 00:06:35.876] And then I just took a profound dislike to it and tried to quit on a regular basis.

[00:06:35.876 – 00:06:39.516] Every time I'd quit, they'd come get me, put me in jail. [00:06:39.516 – 00:06:49.956] And, uh, so I, I guess in, in, if you just put it into a real dis- dis- dis- d- d- sort of boiled down kind of a, [00:06:49.956 – 00:06:52.896] a deal, I was like many, many alcoholics that I hear. [00:06:52.896 – 00:06:57.176] I was a guy who always seemed to have great potential. [00:06:57.176 – 00:07:05.236] I was a fellow who either made w- who usually made, uh, beautiful beginnings, lousy finishes. [00:07:05.236 – 00:07:15.396] Because I developed alcoholism as, as a young fella, and I had that, that unbelievable capacity to take a drink at exactly the wrong time, and I screwed up

[00:07:15.396 – 00:07:18.056] many of the best opportunities any human could want. [00:07:18.056 – 00:07:19.636] I had tons of opportunity. [00:07:19.636 – 00:07:26.056] I was the kind of guy that if I stayed sober a couple days, being young, I would snap back and look pretty good. [00:07:26.056 – 00:07:32.136] And as a rule, when I'd go looking for a job, people would hire me for a better job than I was looking for. [00:07:32.136 – 00:07:34.936] And I'd just be wanting to pick up a box or something. [00:07:34.936 – 00:07:37.516] They'd put me in charge of telling folks where to put it.

[00:07:37.516 – 00:07:43.476] And then I would demonstrate to them that they were very lousy evaluators of personnel. [00:07:43.476 – 00:07:52.476] Like I, I don't remember, honest to God, I don't remember a single time in my life having been promoted on a job. [00:07:52.476 – 00:07:57.576] I would always start out up here and work my way down and out. [00:07:57.576 – 00:08:01.276] And, and so that was my life, and it was typified by everything I did. [00:08:01.276 – 00:08:10.666] When I went in the military, I was selected out of 1,000 people to be one of five who was gonna be developed into a leader of men and become an officer.

[00:08:10.666 – 00:08:18.096] 38 months later, I'm thrown out with an undesirable discharge for alcoholism, unfit for military service. [00:08:18.096 – 00:08:19.876] So I was a real winner. [00:08:19.876 – 00:08:24.976] I, I had that thing, and, and no matter how good life was, I could screw it up in a heartbeat. [00:08:24.976 – 00:08:32.356] And then, so that was what, what my whole story looked like, was just that, that if you, if you were observant, that you could see that thing. [00:08:32.356 – 00:08:38.456] But the hell of alcoholism is that we suffer a thing called delusion.

[00:08:38.456 – 00:08:40.816] A thing called illusion. [00:08:40.816 – 00:08:43.076] And that's not like denial. [00:08:43.076 – 00:08:46.776] This is an inability to see myself as I am. [00:08:46.776 – 00:08:52.516] And I, honest to God, never saw the reality of my life till I was sober and looked back. [00:08:52.516 – 00:08:54.656] And then it became painfully clear. [00:08:54.656 – 00:09:00.316] But that was the package that I was dealing with when I, when I, when I found myself in that institution. [00:09:00.316 – 00:09:03.176] It was d- it was state prison, Southern Michigan at Jackson. [00:09:03.176 – 00:09:07.636] And I went in there the ni- the 20th of November of '56.

[00:09:07.636 – 00:09:16.656] I'd had my last drink the day before when I went to court and, and knew it was a one-way trip, and the 20th of November I woke up. [00:09:16.656 – 00:09:20.716] I'm looking at a life like I've just briefly described. [00:09:20.716 – 00:09:24.876] I'm looking at a present that was untenable. [00:09:24.876 – 00:09:32.456] Uh, J- yo, Jackson, I mean, I'm sure you've got some lousy places in, in, in, in Arizona, but… [00:09:32.456 – 00:09:35.856] And I'm no connoisseur of prisons or anything like that. [00:09:35.856 – 00:09:36.336] Oh. [00:09:36.336 – 00:09:41.296] Uh, and I don't think anybody rates them like they do hotels or, or restaurants.

[00:09:41.296 – 00:09:50.836] But if I had to rate them, I would rate Jackson as probably the second or third worst in the world, and I've been to a ton of them. [00:09:50.836 – 00:09:56.836] And, uh, visiting, thank God, most of them, and, and leaving most of them. [00:09:56.836 – 00:09:58.476] I've been to a couple worse. [00:09:58.476 – 00:10:08.956] But that was a, a, a place where i- if you, if you wanted to bet on a, a positive result from experience at Jackson, [00:10:08.956 – 00:10:10.756] you'd have got rich betting on negatives.

[00:10:10.756 – 00:10:16.576] Because it was the kind of place that did not develop humanity or de- social skills or anything like it. [00:10:16.576 – 00:10:18.656] It's, what it developed was survival skills. [00:10:18.656 – 00:10:29.176] Because I learned to live in an environment where man's inhumanity to man was routine business, where kindness was considered weakness, sincerity was considered [00:10:29.176 – 00:10:30.036] stupidity. [00:10:30.036 – 00:10:33.646] And, and, and it was basically survival of the f- [00:10:33.759 – 00:10:34.019] It is. [00:10:34.019 – 00:10:44.059] And, and, and I'm confident that as I sat in that, that sort of unfogging process and took a look at that, if I had had any

[00:10:44.059 – 00:10:48.059] aspirations about doing anything, they would have been stifled very quickly. [00:10:48.059 – 00:10:57.279] And I look back at a life as, as horrendous as I've just described, culminated with a crime so, so horrendous that there's no suitable punishment for it. [00:10:57.279 – 00:10:59.819] There, there isn't an adequate punishment. [00:10:59.819 – 00:11:01.139] And so that was the package. [00:11:01.139 – 00:11:11.259] And, and if you, if you could have seen that as I briefly described it to you, not a person in this room would have bet a nickel on a good result

[00:11:11.259 – 00:11:12.059] coming from that. [00:11:12.059 – 00:11:19.759] There were 6,000-plus guys locked up behind one wall, and I'm one more tragic face sitting in that place. [00:11:19.759 – 00:11:29.559] And, uh, the amazing thing is that I experienced a powerful transformation thanks to a program called Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:11:29.559 – 00:11:32.419] And, uh, I tell you what happened. [00:11:32.419 – 00:11:37.339] Uh, and I, and I'll first tell you this, that, that I was always a guy that… [00:11:37.339 – 00:11:41.279] I was es- by nature, I was essentially an isolated type of guy. [00:11:41.279 – 00:11:43.609] Yeah, I, I was somebody that didn't meet people well.

[00:11:43.609 – 00:11:45.039] I was not comfortable. [00:11:45.039 – 00:11:48.219] Booze was a– they called it a so- social lubricant. [00:11:48.219 – 00:11:51.779] I guarantee you, it was a Major League grease job for me. [00:11:51.779 – 00:11:56.599] Because, I mean, that stuff made me function in society extremely well. [00:11:56.599 – 00:12:00.239] And when I wasn't drinking, I'd go back into isolation. [00:12:00.239 – 00:12:07.399] And then after having done something like I did, it just hammered the nail on that, and I was as absolutely isolated as anybody I've ever seen. [00:12:07.399 – 00:12:09.659] I was almost like a guy in a coma.

[00:12:09.659 – 00:12:12.799] Um, I was conscious and moving, but there was no thought. [00:12:12.799 – 00:12:14.369] I was almost devoid of feeling. [00:12:14.369 – 00:12:16.799] And so that was a guy that checked in. [00:12:16.799 – 00:12:21.779] They put me in a cell, and I was in such isolation, I didn't know who was in the cell on either side. [00:12:21.779 – 00:12:25.839] And it wasn't that I didn't care, they just didn't exist. [00:12:25.839 – 00:12:27.919] And, and so that was the way I lived. [00:12:27.919 – 00:12:32.099] I sat in that cell and did my level best to keep from thinking.

[00:12:32.099 – 00:12:33.779] That's how I spent my time. [00:12:33.779 – 00:12:35.099] I could read anything. [00:12:35.099 – 00:12:36.919] It mattered not whether it had a theme. [00:12:36.919 – 00:12:41.339] I could read anything just to occupy my mind and keep from thinking. [00:12:41.339 – 00:12:51.379] And I'll tell you, if, if, if anybody with 6,000-plus guys in there, I'll guarantee you, if you'd have had to go around and pick a winner out of that [00:12:51.379 – 00:12:53.899] crowd, I would not have been the choice. [00:12:53.899 – 00:12:58.399] I was the youngest guy in there, but I would not have been the choice, I'll guarantee you, by anybody.

[00:12:58.399 – 00:13:06.459] And what happened, if, if you can picture that, this is a dismal, lost young fella. [00:13:06.459 – 00:13:11.099] And what happened is amazing to me to this day. [00:13:11.099 – 00:13:22.149] If my getting started into anything, including recovery, had required any initiative on my part, I [00:13:22.149 – 00:13:23.539] would never have done it. [00:13:23.539 – 00:13:26.939] I'll absolutely guarantee you, I would never have done it. [00:13:26.939 – 00:13:28.758] And it wasn't that… [00:13:28.758 – 00:13:29.059] It was… [00:13:29.059 – 00:13:30.409] A lot of it was ignorance. [00:13:30.409 – 00:13:35.109] I had absolutely no notion of alcoholism, of, of recovery programs.

[00:13:35.109 – 00:13:40.638] Uh, I'd been diagnosed as alcoholic by everybody who ever looked at me, except me. [00:13:40.638 – 00:13:42.619] I didn't believe I was an alcoholic. [00:13:42.619 – 00:13:45.459] Thought I was too young, thought I was too smart. [00:13:45.459 – 00:13:49.038] And, and e- e- but even if I had, I don't think I would have done anything. [00:13:49.038 – 00:13:55.179] And so if any, if, if it had required any initiative, number one, I wouldn't have known what to do. [00:13:55.179 – 00:14:04.899] But number two, I was in such a state of mind and so full of guilt and shame, I couldn't have asked anybody for a drink of water, never mind help.

[00:14:04.899 – 00:14:06.199] I j- I just couldn't have done it. [00:14:06.199 – 00:14:08.859] And it wasn't belligerence, it was inability. [00:14:08.859 – 00:14:12.939] And what happened to me is still amazing to me ri- right now. [00:14:12.939 – 00:14:15.219] It's one of my buddy, my higher power. [00:14:15.219 – 00:14:19.179] This weekend is, uh, is, is handling CPC and PI. [00:14:19.179 – 00:14:24.299] Among my passions in AA is, is, is CPC and, and PI. [00:14:24.299 – 00:14:27.699] And it's, it's just like any loyalty. [00:14:27.699 – 00:14:33.039] You know, if you think back to where you got kickstarted into recovery, where, what was it started big Mo?

[00:14:33.039 – 00:14:36.859] I'll guarantee you, you'll be loyal to that second to none. [00:14:36.859 – 00:14:38.999] Because that's where life started. [00:14:38.999 – 00:14:49.139] And so what happened with me, and one reason that I'm, that I'm strong on CPC and PI, is a, a fella who worked [00:14:49.139 – 00:14:54.619] there did one of those obligatory kind of, uh, things, you know, where they study your case. [00:14:54.619 – 00:14:58.939] And so this guy pulled me in, and he started doing a social history. [00:14:58.939 – 00:15:01.039] And I'd been, God knows, I could administer them.

[00:15:01.039 – 00:15:02.319] I'd had so many of them. [00:15:02.319 – 00:15:10.419] And when he got through, he made the same startling diagnosis that everybody who ever talked to me made. [00:15:10.419 – 00:15:13.289] It was always something like, "My God, you're a drunk. [00:15:13.289 – 00:15:14.719] You're an alcoholic. [00:15:14.719 – 00:15:18.659] You're a problem drinker." And, you know, I'd heard that stuff ad nauseam. [00:15:18.659 – 00:15:22.539] And it would normally go on, it– no, not normally. [00:15:22.539 – 00:15:30.419] It would always go on to something like, "Why don't you quit?" Well, I never could think of a good reason to quit.

[00:15:30.419 – 00:15:31.129] Uh, the, the… [00:15:31.129 – 00:15:33.899] A lot of other people thought it would be a good idea. [00:15:33.899 – 00:15:34.799] Not me. [00:15:34.799 – 00:15:37.619] Man is bad enough sober. [00:15:37.619 – 00:15:39.759] And I never… [00:15:39.759 – 00:15:48.379] I don't know if I was the dumbest guy on the block or what, but I never connected the first drink with where I wound up. [00:15:48.379 – 00:15:50.539] I never connected that. [00:15:50.539 – 00:15:55.959] I never connected that when I took a drink, I didn't act like other people. [00:15:55.959 – 00:15:58.099] I never even conceived of that. [00:15:58.099 – 00:16:02.699] And so when somebody said, "Quit drinking." For what?

[00:16:02.699 – 00:16:05.039] I mean, God, it's the only recreation I've got. [00:16:05.039 – 00:16:06.379] It's the only pleasure I've got. [00:16:06.379 – 00:16:07.529] It's the only relief I've got. [00:16:07.529 – 00:16:11.879] It's the most reliable medicine I've ever had in my life. [00:16:11.879 – 00:16:15.239] That stuff never quit doing its work for me. [00:16:15.239 – 00:16:18.519] I hear folks say booze quit working for them. [00:16:18.519 – 00:16:20.859] I think that's the saddest story I've ever heard. [00:16:20.859 – 00:16:23.379] God. [00:16:23.379 – 00:16:25.619] It didn't quit working for me. [00:16:25.619 – 00:16:28.379] It just, it started working overtime is what it did. [00:16:28.379 – 00:16:30.779] And beat me up b- bad.

[00:16:30.779 – 00:16:32.859] But I mean, that was my friend. [00:16:32.859 – 00:16:33.499] And I never… [00:16:33.499 – 00:16:37.439] Somebody say, "Why don't you quit drinking?" I'd say Is that the best you got? [00:16:37.439 – 00:16:40.239] And so it never did register to, to me. [00:16:40.239 – 00:16:42.079] I couldn't think of why you would. [00:16:42.079 – 00:16:43.679] I mean, I couldn't think of a good reason. [00:16:43.679 – 00:16:44.459] I mean, it… [00:16:44.459 – 00:16:47.639] Well, if I'd have been thinking clearly, I c- well, anyway, I won't even go into all that. [00:16:47.639 – 00:16:52.099] There, there were 10,000 motivating factors that I just didn't see.

[00:16:52.099 – 00:17:00.039] And so, so when this guy got through doing that social history that day, he made the same essential diagnosis. [00:17:00.039 – 00:17:06.599] He said, "Man, you've had a lot of trouble with booze." And I said, "Yeah." I mean, that's obvious. [00:17:06.599 – 00:17:11.279] I mean, my God, man, if a pope had drunk as much as I did, he'd have had a lot of trouble with it. [00:17:11.279 – 00:17:12.059] Anybody would. [00:17:12.059 – 00:17:18.379] And so I had a whole folder full of stuff that would tell anybody that I'd had a lot of trouble, and I knew it.

[00:17:18.379 – 00:17:22.659] But I thought that was because I was just no good. [00:17:22.659 – 00:17:26.519] I never thought it was because of any peculiar reaction to alcohol. [00:17:26.519 – 00:17:27.759] I thought it was because I was no good. [00:17:27.759 – 00:17:35.539] I was worthless, and irresponsible, and undisciplined, and all of that, which would have been a pretty good description of how I behaved, but I didn't understand. [00:17:35.539 – 00:17:44.239] And so this guy got through, and I– he said, "The, the big trouble." And I said, "Yeah." And he said something I never heard and didn't understand then.

[00:17:44.239 – 00:17:45.539] I'm not sure he did either. [00:17:45.539 – 00:17:54.179] But somebody had told him, probably a CPC person, had told him, because they don't teach this in social work school. [00:17:54.179 – 00:18:04.199] You know, you know, I'm somebody who believes that everybody who picks up drunks when they hit the wall ought to be equipped to say, "Hey, if you [00:18:04.199 – 00:18:07.399] want some help, here's where you go." That's called CPC. [00:18:07.399 – 00:18:11.319] That's being able to get people to understand how to deal with an, with an alcoholic.

[00:18:11.319 – 00:18:18.129] This guy, I, I d- I, I, I don't think he knew anything about AA. [00:18:18.129 – 00:18:23.398] Somebody had told him, "When you see somebody like that, tell them how to go to AA." That's, that's all he did. [00:18:23.398 – 00:18:28.579] And it was about as dramatic as if you're hungry, get you a hamburger. [00:18:28.579 – 00:18:29.759] There's McDonald's over there. [00:18:29.759 – 00:18:30.459] Go get one. [00:18:30.459 – 00:18:32.239] About that dramatic. [00:18:32.239 – 00:18:37.839] And w- when I, I left, I had no clue what he was talking about. [00:18:37.839 – 00:18:39.859] I had never heard of AA.

[00:18:39.859 – 00:18:42.199] I never heard of helping a drunk. [00:18:42.199 – 00:18:44.739] I mean, this, I mean, I know this was a long time ago. [00:18:44.739 – 00:18:47.479] But my God, I mean, AA was here. [00:18:47.479 – 00:18:50.539] I mean, this program was twenty-two years old when I got here. [00:18:50.539 – 00:18:53.298] But they did not announce that where I drank. [00:18:53.298 – 00:18:56.919] I, I had no clue there was any such thing as that. [00:18:56.919 – 00:19:03.499] And, uh, so it didn't mean anything. [00:19:03.499 – 00:19:13.599] And, and, uh, when, when, a few days later, a couple of weeks, something like that, he sent me a note, a

[00:19:13.599 – 00:19:14.459] l- just a little thing. [00:19:14.459 – 00:19:16.159] It looked like a telegram, an old telegram. [00:19:16.159 – 00:19:22.239] And it said, now, in a prison with 6,000-plus guys in there, you know it was crowded. [00:19:22.239 – 00:19:23.699] Everything was crowded. [00:19:23.699 – 00:19:24.499] Man, the phone… [00:19:24.499 – 00:19:25.559] Well, there wasn't no phone booth. [00:19:25.559 – 00:19:28.859] But n- there was nothing wasn't crowded, including the AA group. [00:19:28.859 – 00:19:32.219] They had a capacity of 300 on the group. [00:19:32.219 – 00:19:34.299] You had to have a chair open before you could go. [00:19:34.299 – 00:19:36.509] And I guess the chair came open.

[00:19:36.509 – 00:19:37.679] I didn't know anything about this. [00:19:37.679 – 00:19:43.869] And he sent me a note, said, "You can go." It didn't say Groundhog Day, but that's what it was, February 2nd of '57. [00:19:43.869 – 00:19:46.149] And, uh, so I went up there. [00:19:46.149 – 00:19:47.179] I didn't want to go to AA. [00:19:47.179 – 00:19:49.959] I did not want to go to AA. [00:19:49.959 – 00:19:53.399] I, I was a man sitting in a cage devoid of feeling. [00:19:53.399 – 00:19:55.899] I was in complete isolation. [00:19:55.899 – 00:19:57.159] And I'll tell you one little thing. [00:19:57.159 – 00:19:59.619] I'm not the only guy in this room that's been isolated.

[00:19:59.619 – 00:20:00.548] And I'm not the only one. [00:20:00.548 – 00:20:01.099] I know that. [00:20:01.099 – 00:20:06.339] And the last thing isolated folks want to do is go yucking up with somebody. [00:20:06.339 – 00:20:07.859] That's the last thing. [00:20:07.859 – 00:20:09.199] And so I didn't want to go. [00:20:09.199 – 00:20:10.239] I didn't want to go anywhere. [00:20:10.239 – 00:20:14.859] I wanted to sit in there and stare at my navel and keep from thinking the best I could. [00:20:14.859 – 00:20:20.458] And, and so I got that, and thank God, thank God. [00:20:20.458 – 00:20:23.719] You know, there's a word called surrender. [00:20:23.719 – 00:20:26.999] That's the heart and soul of where we start at AA.

[00:20:26.999 – 00:20:33.078] We don't start because it's a good idea, and this would be a nice thing to do, and it'd look good on a resume. [00:20:33.078 – 00:20:34.459] Forget it. [00:20:34.459 – 00:20:36.079] Uh-uh. [00:20:36.079 – 00:20:37.999] If we start there, we get to start over. [00:20:37.999 – 00:20:41.979] It's built on the, the bitter ashes of defeat. [00:20:41.979 – 00:20:43.599] It's built on surrender. [00:20:43.599 – 00:20:53.659] And, and I am so grateful that I was not obviously for what happened, but I was so grateful that I– now that I was [00:20:53.659 – 00:20:54.099] beat. [00:20:54.099 – 00:20:55.979] I was absolutely beat. [00:20:55.979 – 00:20:57.899] I had no, no fight left.

[00:20:57.899 – 00:20:58.499] Nothing. [00:20:58.499 – 00:21:07.309] And, and so when I got that deal, I mean, it, it wa– I wasn't afraid or anything, but I think I was just so devoid of feeling that I just sort of automatic- [00:21:07.426 – 00:21:08.946] They just shuffled over to the meeting. [00:21:08.946 – 00:21:10.386] Looked like a guy on Thorazine. [00:21:10.386 – 00:21:11.386] So I shuffled over. [00:21:11.386 – 00:21:17.306] And, uh, one guy spoke to me, 300 people in the room counting me. [00:21:17.306 – 00:21:21.546] And they had an officer on the door, and he read my name on the shirt, Ivester.

[00:21:21.546 – 00:21:25.265] And I said, "Yes, sir." And he, he said, "Sit down." And so I sat down. [00:21:25.265 – 00:21:28.306] And I had no clue, had no clue what it would be. [00:21:28.306 – 00:21:33.066] I, I figured it was gonna be some kind of a religious fervor of some sort. [00:21:33.066 – 00:21:39.906] But I couldn't imagine helping drunks without symbols and, and, and drums and snakes and stuff. [00:21:39.906 – 00:21:42.426] And I, I mean, it had to be religious. [00:21:42.426 – 00:21:44.166] I, I, it's the only thing I could think of. [00:21:44.166 – 00:21:50.446] I know when I was in county jail, used to be a lot of clean old folks would come down there and say stuff and then sing hymns.

[00:21:50.446 – 00:21:56.026] Every time they'd sing Amazing Grace, man, I'd just blubber and get converted to whatever they were selling. [00:21:56.026 – 00:21:57.366] It didn't make any difference what it was. [00:21:57.366 – 00:21:59.466] It'd last about 30 minutes. [00:21:59.466 – 00:22:02.786] Then I'm right back where I started. [00:22:02.786 – 00:22:06.366] And, and so I, that's what I was sort of braced for. [00:22:06.366 – 00:22:10.166] I'd left organized religion before I started school. [00:22:10.166 – 00:22:16.406] As a little kid, I made up my mind that there was some of that stuff I didn't believe, and I just backed away.

[00:22:16.406 – 00:22:20.606] And the demonstrations I saw of it were not warm and reassuring and inviting. [00:22:20.606 – 00:22:21.586] They were frightening. [00:22:21.586 – 00:22:31.656] And so I just backed away and said, "I won't knock on that door anymore." I didn't say it in those words, but that's, I shut down, and I kept that vow till I was sober at AA for a good [00:22:31.656 – 00:22:31.986] while. [00:22:31.986 – 00:22:42.066] And, and so I, in that area of my life, I was, I was not only empty, uh, uh, uh, I wasn't particularly mad, but, uh, if there was anything, it was just

[00:22:42.066 – 00:22:43.786] turmoil and confusion. [00:22:43.786 – 00:22:48.986] And where there should've been a spiritual life, there was a cold vacuum that existed. [00:22:48.986 – 00:22:55.466] And that spo- place in my life where, where, where morals and values and character should be developing was just an empty place. [00:22:55.466 – 00:23:00.326] And, and so that, that was the, the, the state of mind and spirit that I brought into AA. [00:23:00.326 – 00:23:05.966] And, um, I, I sort of braced that the first thing they did was pray. [00:23:05.966 – 00:23:07.666] We did the Serenity Prayer, first thing.

[00:23:07.666 – 00:23:08.346] Well, they did. [00:23:08.346 – 00:23:08.966] I didn't do it. [00:23:08.966 – 00:23:11.726] And I sort of tolerated it. [00:23:11.726 – 00:23:18.246] And while they were praying, I said to myself, "See there, I knew it. [00:23:18.246 – 00:23:19.246] I knew it. [00:23:19.246 – 00:23:28.126] They'll be in here with the guitars before long, man, and we're gonna be rocking and rolling." And, and so it was worst fears realized. [00:23:28.126 – 00:23:29.986] And then they read a bunch of stuff. [00:23:29.986 – 00:23:32.166] My God, y'all, y'all didn't read much here, Mr. [00:23:32.166 – 00:23:32.566] President. [00:23:32.566 – 00:23:33.746] Did we? [00:23:33.746 – 00:23:34.766] That's okay. [00:23:34.766 – 00:23:35.806] Next, next time.

[00:23:35.806 – 00:23:36.646] Oh, no. [00:23:36.646 – 00:23:40.506] We usually read a lot of stuff. [00:23:40.506 – 00:23:42.286] And they read a bunch. [00:23:42.286 – 00:23:44.246] God knows they read everything but the phone book. [00:23:44.246 – 00:23:46.946] And, uh, and when they… [00:23:46.946 – 00:23:48.486] And, and that was churchy looking. [00:23:48.486 – 00:23:49.886] It looked like reading scripture. [00:23:49.886 – 00:23:52.546] And, uh, then they turned the speaker loose. [00:23:52.546 – 00:23:55.546] And you may think I'm a little weird. [00:23:55.546 – 00:24:01.586] That, I looked like absolute normal personified compared to him. [00:24:01.586 – 00:24:06.406] That guy got up and told his story, and I never heard anything like that.

[00:24:06.406 – 00:24:11.786] Now, I was not a hothouse flower, and I was about as shockproof as a human could get. [00:24:11.786 – 00:24:13.906] But that guy about shocked me. [00:24:13.906 – 00:24:19.076] Because he got up in front of 300 hairy-legged convicts- … [00:24:19.076 – 00:24:20.406] and bared his soul. [00:24:20.406 – 00:24:25.006] I mean, that guy was telling stuff I wouldn't have told anybody the drunkest I'd ever been. [00:24:25.006 – 00:24:30.006] And I thought, "Why is he doing that?" I, I mean, it made no sense. [00:24:30.006 – 00:24:32.646] It was about like a geek at a circus or something.

[00:24:32.646 – 00:24:43.006] And so I'm sitting there just sort of astonished at the whole deal and thinking, "He's got to be some kind of nutcase on the loose here." And, uh, and [00:24:43.006 – 00:24:46.846] I, I assure you, I didn't identify with anything about him. [00:24:46.846 – 00:24:51.666] Uh, not one syllable of one word of, of, anything he said. [00:24:51.666 – 00:24:55.646] And I sat there and listened to that and walked away. [00:24:55.646 – 00:25:02.486] And I, I, I, I was not in shape to do a lot of heavy thinking.

[00:25:02.486 – 00:25:08.066] But I, I just walked away probably more confused than I was when I walked in. [00:25:08.066 – 00:25:12.526] 'Cause I didn't know nothing when I walked in, and I was full of something when I walked out. [00:25:12.526 – 00:25:21.166] And, uh, the amazing thing, the next week, I found myself sitting back in there. [00:25:21.166 – 00:25:24.286] And I, I couldn't have explained to anybody why I was there. [00:25:24.286 – 00:25:25.486] Nobody cared. [00:25:25.486 – 00:25:26.966] I mean, it didn't make any difference to anybody. [00:25:26.966 – 00:25:32.126] If I hadn't have come, nobody's gonna say, "Where's that nice fella that was sitting in that chair?" They couldn't have cared less.

[00:25:32.126 – 00:25:33.686] Those guys got their own troubles. [00:25:33.686 – 00:25:35.246] They weren't worried about me. [00:25:35.246 – 00:25:36.686] I wasn't worried. [00:25:36.686 – 00:25:38.885] If I hadn't gone, nobody would've been concerned. [00:25:38.885 – 00:25:41.046] But I found myself sitting there. [00:25:41.046 – 00:25:51.106] And I didn't agonize over it, but for a while, I, I, when I started to sort of fee- feel some stuff, I said, "Why on earth did I go back?" And, and it's a simple thing. [00:25:51.106 – 00:26:01.706] It wasn't simple then, but it, it, it became pretty clear, that what I responded to was the feeling that that guy gave out, not just the experience, not the words, not the,

[00:26:01.706 – 00:26:03.146] the laughter, anything like that. [00:26:03.146 – 00:26:12.486] This guy was imbued with the magical spirit of enthusiasm, and that guy was as enthused as any human I have ever seen. [00:26:12.486 – 00:26:14.566] And that's what drew me back. [00:26:14.566 – 00:26:16.606] I was like the moth going to the flame. [00:26:16.606 – 00:26:18.886] I couldn't have explained to anybody why I was back. [00:26:18.886 – 00:26:20.946] Not that anybody cared, but I couldn't. [00:26:20.946 – 00:26:22.366] I just found myself there. [00:26:22.366 – 00:26:25.846] And it wasn't irresistible urge or anything like that. [00:26:25.846 – 00:26:31.146] It, it was just drawn back to the light or the spirit that I felt.

[00:26:31.146 – 00:26:37.146] And so I found myself sitting there, and I found myself sitting there every meeting for the time I stayed there. [00:26:37.146 – 00:26:37.926] They kept me in there. [00:26:37.926 – 00:26:42.746] I had a sentence of 5 to 15 years, and I was paroled after three and a half years. [00:26:42.746 – 00:26:46.065] And, uh, never missed a single meeting. [00:26:46.065 – 00:26:54.586] Now, it, you, you can hurry up and believe it wasn't because I fell in love with it or I was dedicated or felt desperate need. [00:26:54.586 – 00:26:57.726] I, I'll just tell you this because I, I know who we, who we are here.

[00:26:57.726 – 00:27:05.096] I mean, we're, we're essentially a group of people who are committed to trying to reach guys who are in this impasse called in- incarceration. [00:27:05.096 – 00:27:09.526] And there are barriers there that are very real, very formidable. [00:27:09.526 – 00:27:13.754] And, uh, I mean, just to, to, to list a few. [00:27:13.754 – 00:27:15.334] W- was ignorance was one with me. [00:27:15.334 – 00:27:16.574] I had no earthly idea. [00:27:16.574 – 00:27:21.594] Now, this was a long time ago, and, uh, alcoholism started to get… [00:27:21.594 – 00:27:30.754] never was really declared an illness, but about the time I came into AA, the American Medical Association kind of nodded toward alcoholism as being like an illness.

[00:27:30.754 – 00:27:40.774] But you go ahead and believe that across the board, without exception, this was a moral condition, not an illness, a moral condition. [00:27:40.774 – 00:27:42.474] We were light years away from that. [00:27:42.474 – 00:27:44.854] It was a moral condition to me. [00:27:44.854 – 00:27:51.034] When I hear people talking about it being an illness or disease, I found that an em- almost embarrassing, awkward concept. [00:27:51.034 – 00:27:53.954] Now, what on earth is an illness about getting drunk? [00:27:53.954 – 00:27:56.713] The illness is after getting drunk. [00:27:56.713 – 00:27:57.734] And… [00:27:57.734 – 00:27:58.824] But I knew nothing. [00:27:58.824 – 00:27:59.664] Totally ignorant.

[00:27:59.664 – 00:28:00.894] I was young. [00:28:00.894 – 00:28:05.114] Yeah, I'm just thinking about some of the barriers that we sometimes have to work over. [00:28:05.114 – 00:28:05.994] I was young. [00:28:05.994 – 00:28:07.394] I was the youngest guy in that joint. [00:28:07.394 – 00:28:15.014] You know, I was what, legally, Jim knows what I'm talking about, I, I was what would normally be called a casual offender. [00:28:15.014 – 00:28:16.574] Now, you got two basic types. [00:28:16.574 – 00:28:22.514] You have the sort of primary offender who's, who's, uh, who's, it's, it's just, he's got criminally motivated. [00:28:22.514 – 00:28:28.414] And a casual offender is somebody whose crime is an outgrowth of the condition, and I was that.

[00:28:28.414 – 00:28:29.344] I was a casual offender. [00:28:29.344 – 00:28:37.814] So normally a guy like that is not kept in maximum custody, and they reserve that for a more serious kind of a criminal. [00:28:37.814 – 00:28:40.534] It is, is, is the way, way correction folk look at it. [00:28:40.534 – 00:28:45.714] And, but they kept me there because I was, when people looked at my record, man, that looked bizarre. [00:28:45.714 – 00:28:51.534] And, and so I guess they figured that, uh, I don't think I would've gone anywhere if there had been no wall.

[00:28:51.534 – 00:28:53.394] I just didn't have enough fight. [00:28:53.394 – 00:28:56.574] And, and, and, uh, so they kept me there. [00:28:56.574 – 00:28:58.494] Normally my age would not be kept there. [00:28:58.494 – 00:29:00.614] I was the youngest guy in that joint. [00:29:00.614 – 00:29:07.194] Now, when you in one of the worst prisons in the world, you the youngest guy there, well, it make you a little nervous, you know. [00:29:07.194 – 00:29:09.954] And, and I was kind of, kind of a cute fellow, too. [00:29:09.954 – 00:29:14.434] Well, I mean, after I sobered up a little, I, I was kind of cute.

[00:29:14.434 – 00:29:22.454] And, uh, that'll make you sort of, sort of a little tense when you walk around it. [00:29:22.454 – 00:29:24.694] Till you get known. [00:29:24.694 – 00:29:27.394] And, but anyway, there were a whole bunch of… [00:29:27.394 – 00:29:28.214] Youth was one. [00:29:28.214 – 00:29:33.894] And, and, and I, and when I started even contemplating alcoholism, I thought I was too young. [00:29:33.894 – 00:29:37.054] Uh, history was a real barrier to me. [00:29:37.054 – 00:29:40.154] You know, when I looked at my history, I didn't see a guy in trouble. [00:29:40.154 – 00:29:42.194] I saw a worthless piece of junk.

[00:29:42.194 – 00:29:43.294] That's what I saw. [00:29:43.294 – 00:29:47.394] I saw a guy who was unworthy. [00:29:47.394 – 00:29:53.974] If you look at a life that's a legacy of shame and, and failure, uh, I didn't see anything there that was worth redemption. [00:29:53.974 – 00:29:55.794] Guilt, horrendous guilt. [00:29:55.794 – 00:30:00.374] All of those were real barriers that I was dealing with when I'm sitting there. [00:30:00.374 – 00:30:06.694] Felt ashamed of myself to even be sitting in a place where folks are talking about decency and hope and help. [00:30:06.694 – 00:30:09.494] And so there were formidable things that cut through.

[00:30:09.494 – 00:30:19.534] And when I look back to, to what it was that cut through and really made a difference for me, we could talk a week about it, but I don't have that much time [00:30:19.534 – 00:30:21.114] 'cause my plane's leaving tomorrow. [00:30:21.114 – 00:30:23.814] And I don't want to miss it. [00:30:23.814 – 00:30:25.334] My wife will kill me. [00:30:25.334 – 00:30:26.114] I… [00:30:26.114 – 00:30:29.204] But I think of some of the stuff that cut through. [00:30:29.204 – 00:30:38.814] One, the recovery group at, at Ja- at, uh, at Jackson, w- was, which will always be my home group.

[00:30:38.814 – 00:30:40.814] I, I just don't wanna be a regular member. [00:30:40.814 – 00:30:41.034] I… [00:30:41.034 – 00:30:43.654] But it'll always be my home group. [00:30:43.654 – 00:30:45.874] That's, that's a fierce loyalty there. [00:30:45.874 – 00:30:50.534] And I go, I don't go, I mean, I don't go back on a regular basis, but I go and visit every once in a while. [00:30:50.534 – 00:30:53.394] And, uh, mainly to make sure I'm not there. [00:30:53.394 – 00:30:57.214] And, uh, and maybe say a little something to the guy who is. [00:30:57.214 – 00:30:59.894] And so I, I try to go back every chance I get.

[00:30:59.894 – 00:31:06.534] And so it, but it was a group, and, and I'm a group man. [00:31:06.534 – 00:31:10.614] Now, we talk about the me- meeting in the, magic in the meetings. [00:31:10.614 – 00:31:11.894] I'm not one who says that. [00:31:11.894 – 00:31:20.034] I'm one who believes that a well-formed, purposeful group of Alcoholics Anonymous has a powerful healing force. [00:31:20.034 – 00:31:22.234] I'm not a meeting junkie. [00:31:22.234 – 00:31:23.594] I'm a, I'm a home group guy. [00:31:23.594 – 00:31:31.733] And that goes to my introduction because I was introduced not to a gaggle of inmates just talking or listening to somebody from outside.

[00:31:31.733 – 00:31:35.394] I was introduced to a real group of Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:31:35.394 – 00:31:39.034] Now, there weren't 300 stormtroopers in there. [00:31:39.034 – 00:31:40.794] There weren't 300 Green Berets. [00:31:41.512 – 00:31:45.112] But, but just like in any group, you got a mix of people. [00:31:45.112 – 00:31:49.012] I mean, we don't have a, a me- a measure of healing that goes with the group. [00:31:49.012 – 00:31:54.392] We're people in all stages of repair, and those 300 guys there were no different. [00:31:54.392 – 00:31:56.292] We had some guys that couldn't have cared less. [00:31:56.292 – 00:31:58.812] They couldn't have spelled AA, or cared to learn.

[00:31:58.812 – 00:32:00.612] Yeah, we had some of those. [00:32:00.612 – 00:32:06.332] But we had a, a good solid core of as fine of members as I've ever known. [00:32:06.332 – 00:32:08.852] I mean, solid, real members. [00:32:08.852 – 00:32:11.472] It's, it's just like any group. [00:32:11.472 – 00:32:13.012] You got a, some leadership in it. [00:32:13.012 – 00:32:20.531] And I don't know what it is, but there's kind of an instinct that y- we, we recognize it in somebody. [00:32:20.531 – 00:32:31.412] I don't know if you could ever even describe it, but somehow you can sort of sense when somebody is either hungry or desperate

[00:32:31.412 – 00:32:36.212] or really, really wants to do something, and we just do it. [00:32:36.212 – 00:32:42.872] And so when I started to get involved, you know, uh, that group did a couple of things that were tr- tremendously important to me. [00:32:42.872 – 00:32:46.432] One, they had, uh, an introductory program. [00:32:46.432 – 00:32:53.952] We hadn't developed the thing of, of taking people through the steps and doing book stuff like Garnet and I d- do some stuff like that. [00:32:53.952 – 00:32:59.032] And, uh, and it's wonderful stuff, but that hadn't been invented back then.

[00:32:59.032 – 00:32:59.812] That was not it. [00:32:59.812 – 00:33:03.872] You know, steps were done in a helter-skelter, get-your-best-hole kind of deal. [00:33:03.872 – 00:33:09.312] Anybody that's got some romantic notion that we did it more thoroughly in the old days, you can thump that up. [00:33:09.312 – 00:33:15.532] You know, the name of the game in the old days was action, action, more action. [00:33:15.532 – 00:33:18.452] You take a book but mainly as a weapon. [00:33:18.452 – 00:33:20.212] That was with… [00:33:20.212 – 00:33:30.252] And, and so I, I started, I started getting introduced, and these guys, uh, what, what they'd do would take some of the new guys, split them off into a separate group,

[00:33:30.252 – 00:33:35.992] and then just sort of explain what the program of recovery is, you know, in, in, in broad general terms. [00:33:35.992 – 00:33:39.332] Not doing the step, but, but it enormously helpful to me. [00:33:39.332 – 00:33:47.392] First time I ever heard the term design for living was in that setting, and I've never forgotten that, and I've never forgotten the importance of it. [00:33:47.392 – 00:33:57.472] Because if you can imagine, I'm like a cut cat sitting in there because they can talk about spiritual program all you want to, but to a guy like me, it sounded awfully religious.

[00:33:57.472 – 00:34:00.652] And, uh, well, anyway. [00:34:00.652 – 00:34:05.152] It's, uh, anyway, it's not really conducive to comfort when you're a guy like me. [00:34:05.152 – 00:34:14.252] When I heard that term design for living, that just registered with me because that had logic and purpose and structure, and it's definable. [00:34:14.252 – 00:34:19.632] And that spiritual stuff was just a global mystery, and that was extremely important. [00:34:19.632 – 00:34:24.172] You know, the way the guys presented that, they said, "This is a design for living, and the steps are 200 words. [00:34:24.172 – 00:34:29.892] And if you take the actions laid out in those words, when you get through, you'll be a different cat.

[00:34:29.892 – 00:34:39.932] No matter the motives, you'll be a different cat because when you get through, you'll have different motives." And I found that to be absolutely [00:34:39.932 – 00:34:40.292] true. [00:34:40.292 – 00:34:44.692] Man, it's been so long since I've even considered motives. [00:34:44.692 – 00:34:48.292] I couldn't care less why somebody comes in this door. [00:34:48.292 – 00:34:49.412] None of my business. [00:34:49.412 – 00:34:54.372] My God, I see somebody come in with a sparkling resume, I get supici- suspicious. [00:34:54.372 – 00:35:04.052] When I see somebody come in here that's just ragged and beat up and, uh, flinchy as a cut cat for real- …

[00:35:04.052 – 00:35:06.512] I just kind of breathe a sigh of relief, say, "That's mine there. [00:35:06.512 – 00:35:10.832] I'm getting him." So, but anyway, th- those guys did a great job of that. [00:35:10.832 – 00:35:20.852] The other thing they did, and you'll see this in a group, you won't see it in a meeting, they kind of, kind of sort of picked me out as somebody, and they would– nobody [00:35:20.852 – 00:35:22.932] ever asked me if I wanted to get involved with service. [00:35:22.932 – 00:35:29.212] They'd just say, "Hey, Tom, come on." "Uh, where are we going?" "Don't matter." Didn't have a car to get in.

[00:35:29.212 – 00:35:34.872] They'd just, "Come on." And so we go, and I got introduced to service at a maximum custody penitentiary. [00:35:34.872 – 00:35:44.112] I've never done more ac– well, maybe, but I, I've done awfully active service there, and I found the rewards of service there just as much as I ever have anywhere else. [00:35:44.112 – 00:35:47.452] Uh, interesting thing when you, when… [00:35:47.452 – 00:35:52.752] Well, we, I started a group one time with, with, uh, two or three guys in a mental, in a mental block. [00:35:52.752 – 00:35:55.192] Uh, very interesting meeting.

[00:35:55.192 – 00:36:01.392] I- God, you'd have 10 going on at one time, and it, it was more like lion taming, you know? [00:36:01.392 – 00:36:03.872] But I don't know if we did any good or not. [00:36:03.872 – 00:36:06.732] But I tell you what, I've been sober ever since. [00:36:06.732 – 00:36:08.002] You know, it certainly- … [00:36:08.002 – 00:36:09.212] it did some good somewhere. [00:36:09.212 – 00:36:16.642] Uh, we started, you know, singles of purpose is a, is a very, very, very serious concern in Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:36:16.642 – 00:36:20.972] Uh, back, back, back when I came in, it was no big issue or anything like that.

[00:36:20.972 – 00:36:23.172] It was no, no, no controversy or anything. [00:36:23.172 – 00:36:30.981] But, you know, N- NA came into being just before I came into AA. [00:36:30.981 – 00:36:39.632] And in our group, the recovery group, you know, uh, what we noticed that there's a strange kind of an impasse between… [00:36:39.632 – 00:36:43.732] Back then it was all horse junkies and, uh, and, uh, and, and prescription meds. [00:36:43.732 – 00:36:46.532] Uh, it, it, a lot of stuff around today was, was not there. [00:36:46.532 – 00:36:47.412] It just had other stuff. [00:36:47.412 – 00:36:50.252] You know, they didn't have anything like they sell now, now.

[00:36:50.252 – 00:36:51.992] I didn't, never heard of crystal or something. [00:36:51.992 – 00:36:56.192] But I tell you what, I sucked up enough speed to launch a rocket now. [00:36:56.192 – 00:36:57.592] I get… [00:36:57.592 – 00:37:02.662] Uh, so, but it was essentially the horse junkies and, and, and, and meds. [00:37:02.662 – 00:37:08.872] But when, when the horse junkies would be talking, the winos would doze, and vice versa. [00:37:08.872 – 00:37:18.672] And so a couple of us got to talking about that, said, "Why don't we see if we can help these guys start one of those NA groups?" Now, here it is.

[00:37:18.672 – 00:37:29.112] F- f- f- what, 40, coming up on 49 years ago, 48 years ago, we started a group of Narcotics Anonymous [00:37:29.112 – 00:37:36.111] as neighbors, not as members, as neighbors helping folks get going, and that group still meets to this day. [00:37:36.111 – 00:37:40.332] That's a legacy that I feel good about. [00:37:40.332 – 00:37:44.452] Because it's one thing to just sort of say, "Oh, just come on along with us, you know. [00:37:44.452 – 00:37:48.392] You'll, you'll get by with just our leftovers." That's, that's patronizing stuff. [00:37:48.392 – 00:37:51.524] And I, I really think if you wanna help, help.

[00:37:51.524 – 00:37:53.904] And so I had that, uh, that experience there. [00:37:53.904 – 00:38:01.904] So I was introduced to a solid group that, that gave the experience of participation with people in real stuff. [00:38:01.904 – 00:38:11.704] I started going through the steps, and I won't, I won't, I won't labor through that, but even though I'd love to because the steps are only the heart of the program. [00:38:11.704 – 00:38:13.283] The steps are the program. [00:38:13.283 – 00:38:23.124] And so I just kind of fumbled way, my way through the first three, worked out the god of reason and logic and all of that kind of stuff and, and came to know that there was a power.

[00:38:23.124 – 00:38:24.384] I- I'll just tell you this. [00:38:24.384 – 00:38:32.684] The first power I ever believed in in my life was the power that I felt in that group of 300 guys sitting in the recovery group. [00:38:32.684 – 00:38:42.744] Now, obviously, not the collective power of the 300 guys, but there was a power there that I could feel and know that was greater than any [00:38:42.744 – 00:38:44.164] of us or all of us. [00:38:44.164 – 00:38:47.864] That's the first power I ever believed in in my life. [00:38:47.864 – 00:38:51.024] That's the first power I ever prayed to in my life.

[00:38:51.024 – 00:38:53.364] And I'll let you in on a little secret. [00:38:53.364 – 00:39:00.544] I'm a deeply spiritual man, but my spiritual life has not progressed much above that. [00:39:00.544 – 00:39:06.544] You know, I'm a great practitioner of what it says in the book, that it's okay to have your head in the cloud, but keep those big feet on the ground. [00:39:06.544 – 00:39:09.204] The, the spiritual life's not a theory. [00:39:09.204 – 00:39:10.104] We have to live it. [00:39:10.104 – 00:39:17.004] And so my spiritual life is either part of everything that I do, the driving force of what I do, or it's nothing.

[00:39:17.004 – 00:39:22.344] And I don't like to get that lost in a whole bunch of fancy rhetoric and language and stuff. [00:39:22.344 – 00:39:24.844] I like to keep that real simple and solid. [00:39:24.844 – 00:39:28.644] And, and so what I found there has served me well ev- ev- ever since. [00:39:28.644 – 00:39:35.024] And, uh, the real turning point for me, I'll, I'll just sh- mention two other, three other things about steps. [00:39:35.024 – 00:39:45.264] And one, I, I, I never like to slide by this because, you know, it's one thing to be in AA and experiencing the vicarious pleasure and,

[00:39:45.264 – 00:39:47.724] and the, the, and the rewards of the action and the fellowship. [00:39:47.724 – 00:39:50.224] That's a g- That's a good thing, but it's time-limited. [00:39:50.224 – 00:39:52.924] And sooner or later, we have to get down to cases. [00:39:52.924 – 00:39:56.924] And I, I'll tell you where the turning point came for me with no, no uncertainty whatsoever. [00:39:56.924 – 00:39:58.563] It was in fourth step. [00:39:58.563 – 00:39:59.723] I didn't intend to take it. [00:39:59.723 – 00:40:02.764] Like most definitive things done in program, I didn't intend to do it. [00:40:02.764 – 00:40:09.424] And, uh, guy spoke one day at the group from outside, and he sp- he spent the whole meeting talking about the inventory.

[00:40:09.424 – 00:40:11.154] And, and when he got through… [00:40:11.154 – 00:40:12.254] And I've always been a reader. [00:40:12.254 – 00:40:12.974] I was a reader. [00:40:12.974 – 00:40:15.383] I tried to read drunk with one eye. [00:40:15.383 – 00:40:17.304] Didn't do well, but I was persistent. [00:40:17.304 – 00:40:21.544] And, uh, you know, coming off speed, I, I, I'd read a ton. [00:40:21.544 – 00:40:22.904] We didn't have much material back then. [00:40:22.904 – 00:40:25.984] We had 12 publications total, pamphlets and all. [00:40:25.984 – 00:40:27.884] Man, I could read that in a week. [00:40:27.884 – 00:40:34.464] And so I, I was familiar with what he was talking about in words, you know, but, but the words are not the message.

[00:40:34.464 – 00:40:38.164] And knowledge of it is not the message. [00:40:38.164 – 00:40:40.364] And so this guy got through talking about it. [00:40:40.364 – 00:40:46.304] I went back to my cell, and I said, "Okay, you know, I think I'm gonna do that." And I'd been sort of thinking about stuff, you know. [00:40:46.304 – 00:40:49.124] The, a mental inventory is a treacherous journey. [00:40:49.124 – 00:40:49.944] Wow. [00:40:49.944 – 00:40:52.044] I believe anything if I can get it in my mind. [00:40:52.044 – 00:40:54.004] As long as I don't talk about it, I can believe it. [00:40:54.004 – 00:41:04.014] And so I'd sort of decided that, that my big problem was that I really wasn't a bad guy, that I was really sort of a victim of circumstances.

[00:41:04.014 – 00:41:10.584] That that my life had painted me into a corner, and that, that I never did mean to be… [00:41:10.584 – 00:41:12.024] I wasn't that kind of guy, you know. [00:41:12.024 – 00:41:15.424] That, and that's what I meant to do was to write a little article. [00:41:15.424 – 00:41:20.744] The pathos of life, you know, and that, that … [00:41:20.744 – 00:41:23.624] Well, it made sense- … [00:41:23.624 – 00:41:25.024] till I started to write. [00:41:25.024 – 00:41:27.884] And then, and I swear to you this is exactly what happened. [00:41:27.884 – 00:41:31.644] I sat down with that old big legal pad, number two pencil.

[00:41:31.644 – 00:41:34.284] That's all it takes for an inventory. [00:41:34.284 – 00:41:36.914] We make it more complicated, don't we? [00:41:36.914 – 00:41:38.883] But it's, it's, it's, that's all there is to it. [00:41:38.883 – 00:41:41.564] I sat down with that, and I started to write. [00:41:41.564 – 00:41:43.724] And I wrote two lines of what I had in mind. [00:41:43.724 – 00:41:54.104] And then with absolutely no intent whatsoever, all at once, that life of delusion and illusion that I was referring [00:41:54.104 – 00:41:56.364] to I think came into focus. [00:41:56.364 – 00:42:03.804] Now, it was not dramatic, no clap of thunder, but I think for the first time in my life I saw myself for who I was.

[00:42:03.804 – 00:42:13.804] And in one motion with no thought, no manuals, no outlines or anything, with nothing, no preparation but beyond that, in one [00:42:13.804 – 00:42:14.304] motion- [00:42:14.919 – 00:42:19.699] One second interval, I opened up and basically poured out my heart. [00:42:19.699 – 00:42:20.499] That's all it was. [00:42:20.499 – 00:42:22.499] And it wasn't an analytical inventory. [00:42:22.499 – 00:42:24.299] It was not a pretty piece of work. [00:42:24.299 – 00:42:33.389] But I'll tell you this, when I got through with those three pages of hopeless scribble, I had just completed the most important day's work I have ever done.

[00:42:33.389 – 00:42:39.379] From that day to this, including other inventories, I've been… [00:42:39.379 – 00:42:42.219] I'm, I'm a real analysis paralysis guy. [00:42:42.219 – 00:42:49.499] I'm coming up on 50 years, and I've done three complete inventories, and I think I'm right about on schedule. [00:42:49.499 – 00:42:52.779] Uh, I– Anyway, I'll, I'll talk about that in a minute. [00:42:52.779 – 00:43:02.859] But that one, that one was the definitive inventory because when I got through with that, I knew at a cellular level that I have [00:43:02.859 – 00:43:04.699] the illness called alcoholism. [00:43:04.699 – 00:43:07.719] I am absolutely beat.

[00:43:07.719 – 00:43:12.119] And my God, what a powerful, powerful place that is to be. [00:43:12.119 – 00:43:21.799] I knew that the issue for me was not that I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, or I'm through, or this kind of stuff, or there's gonna be a better day. [00:43:21.799 – 00:43:28.259] The, the root, the, the thing that happened to me that day is that I knew I was a guy who cannot drink. [00:43:28.259 – 00:43:30.059] I can't drink. [00:43:30.059 – 00:43:34.059] It's not a matter that I won't or I'm gonna desperately try not to.

[00:43:34.059 – 00:43:35.899] I'm a guy who can't drink. [00:43:35.899 – 00:43:40.119] What I can do is self-destruct, and that's all I can do. [00:43:40.119 – 00:43:42.119] That's the only option that I have. [00:43:42.119 – 00:43:44.919] And so that was a powerful moment. [00:43:44.919 – 00:43:51.339] That became the founding point of my life, the fundamental foundation of my life. [00:43:51.339 – 00:43:57.609] And I'll tell you something, all these years later, I have not doubted that for one second. [00:43:57.609 – 00:44:01.529] That war was over, fellow alcoholics. [00:44:01.529 – 00:44:02.809] That war was over. [00:44:02.809 – 00:44:07.519] No pretense, not I'll make a comeback.

[00:44:07.519 – 00:44:09.119] That war was over. [00:44:09.119 – 00:44:10.599] I can't drink. [00:44:10.599 – 00:44:15.019] And then what I'm left with is the dilemma of living with an alcoholic mind. [00:44:15.019 – 00:44:20.599] I'm left with dealing with character defects that drive me in the weirdest directions. [00:44:20.599 – 00:44:29.539] I'm dealing with character defects that make it almost impossible for me to have meaningful kinds of responsible relationships with anybody. [00:44:29.539 – 00:44:33.439] And it's pretty tough to live with that kind of stuff. [00:44:33.439 – 00:44:37.599] And, and thank God, you know, we have steps to address that.

[00:44:37.599 – 00:44:46.119] You know, what, what our program promises that if we take the action, one day we can actually become happy, joyous, and free. [00:44:46.119 – 00:44:48.899] But that doesn't come with longevity. [00:44:48.899 – 00:44:55.059] There is no amount of dry that will produce happy, joyous, and free. [00:44:55.059 – 00:44:57.579] The rest of the steps are what does it. [00:44:57.579 – 00:45:05.319] And, uh, and so when I finished that, did six and seven, made that decision that I honest to God was willing to change. [00:45:05.319 – 00:45:07.959] I never wanted to be the, the butt of jokes.

[00:45:07.959 – 00:45:10.599] I never wanted to be the town drunk. [00:45:10.599 – 00:45:16.019] I never wanted to be some embarrassing clown to everybody I got around. [00:45:16.019 – 00:45:16.999] I never wanted that. [00:45:16.999 – 00:45:20.539] I wanted a different life. [00:45:20.539 – 00:45:26.499] And then the, the, the amends thing, uh, I wish I had time to talk about it. [00:45:26.499 – 00:45:32.799] If anybody's got some problems in that area that, that you, you know that having taken two lives, I had some heavy-duty amends. [00:45:32.799 – 00:45:38.639] And those were just, just the, they were the major glaring things that I had to deal with.

[00:45:38.639 – 00:45:41.579] But my God, there were so many others that just owned me. [00:45:41.579 – 00:45:51.779] You know, my belief, globally speaking, my belief is that I will never be a free man until I go back and make right [00:45:51.779 – 00:45:53.379] those wrongs. [00:45:53.379 – 00:45:57.359] Because every time I misused, abused, took advantage of somebody, I didn't win. [00:45:57.359 – 00:46:07.399] I lost, and I paid for it with a piece of my soul, and that soul will be owned by those things that eat my lunch [00:46:07.399 – 00:46:10.759] on a regular basis till I go back and make it right.

[00:46:10.759 – 00:46:12.299] That's what amends are about. [00:46:12.299 – 00:46:20.099] And so I launched into, to, to those amends and I, I learned that there's, there, uh, there are a lot of amends. [00:46:20.099 – 00:46:22.079] I hear– I talk to a lot of guys in prison. [00:46:22.079 – 00:46:23.459] I do a lot of work in prisons. [00:46:23.459 – 00:46:27.579] And a lot of guys tell me, "Man, you can't do amends in here." That's a bunch of junk. [00:46:27.579 – 00:46:29.279] That is a bunch of junk. [00:46:29.279 – 00:46:36.379] There may be some that require measures beyond that, but that is just a flat lie that you can't do it.

[00:46:36.379 – 00:46:37.639] You, you flat can. [00:46:37.639 – 00:46:45.339] And so I started to make amends right off the bat and, and, and took the actions, even in the case of the people whose lives I took. [00:46:45.339 – 00:46:52.379] I was able to make direct amends in the, as much as possible to the pe- the victims of, of, of that crime. [00:46:52.379 – 00:46:57.939] I was also able– I learned what indirect amends are about. [00:46:57.939 – 00:47:06.479] And there's no question that some of my extraordinary zeal in AA comes from the fact that m-much of what I do has an indirect amends quality.

[00:47:06.479 – 00:47:11.259] And so it's a life l- lifetime thing that doesn't just happen and you can move on. [00:47:11.259 – 00:47:21.259] I was able to, to, uh, uh, just through unbelievable circumstances, I was able to make direct amends to both families who were involved in that, in the, in the, in the, to the [00:47:21.259 – 00:47:22.219] families of the victims. [00:47:22.219 – 00:47:24.679] And so those steps are powerful. [00:47:24.679 – 00:47:27.199] Those are not just some sort of poetic phrases. [00:47:27.199 – 00:47:30.519] Those are powerful, freeing kinds of actions. [00:47:30.519 – 00:47:38.479] And so that happened, and I became, miracle of miracles, if you don't think this is a powerful program, I, I doubt.

[00:47:38.479 – 00:47:40.799] I notice there's some folk in here who've done some time. [00:47:40.799 – 00:47:48.119] I doubt if there's a person on this planet that despised prison any more than me. [00:47:48.119 – 00:47:50.159] I hated it the day I walked in there. [00:47:50.159 – 00:48:00.199] And, and I had some people tell me, "Man, you'll get used to it." Well, apparently it takes more than three and a half years because I was less us-used [00:48:00.199 – 00:48:03.619] to it the day I walked out than I was the day I walked in.

[00:48:03.619 – 00:48:06.559] I mean, I flat hated it with a purple passion. [00:48:06.559 – 00:48:16.579] I hated that demeaning kind of thing of living in a place where anxiety, and tension, and anger, and frustration, and dirt, and humiliation were the order of the [00:48:16.579 – 00:48:16.879] day. [00:48:16.879 – 00:48:24.599] And, and as I got into AA and started to experience this, even in that environment, I became a free man. [00:48:24.599 – 00:48:29.099] Every way except physically, became a free man. [00:48:29.099 – 00:48:32.719] Experienced the first joy I'd ever known in my entire life.

[00:48:32.719 – 00:48:36.359] It made a lot of noise, but I experienced real joy. [00:48:36.359 – 00:48:45.459] The first freedom, the first peace, the first dignity, the first sense of worth that I ever had in my life was in that place. [00:48:45.459 – 00:48:47.659] We're talking powerful program, folks. [00:48:47.659 – 00:48:49.359] We're not talking parlor games. [00:48:49.359 – 00:48:53.939] This thing transformed me and gave me a brand new way to li- to live. [00:48:53.939 – 00:48:55.419] I became… [00:48:55.419 – 00:48:56.799] Now, I'm just a wimpy guy. [00:48:56.799 – 00:48:58.039] I'm the youngest guy in the joint. [00:48:58.039 – 00:49:00.389] I became a leader in that institution.

[00:49:00.389 – 00:49:03.549] Now, obviously, I wasn't intimidating anybody. [00:49:03.549 – 00:49:07.219] But it's an amazing thing when you stand up for what you believe. [00:49:07.219 – 00:49:09.459] Amazing thing. [00:49:09.459 – 00:49:13.699] If you don't watch it, you'll be at the front of the crowd, and I never wanted to do that. [00:49:13.699 – 00:49:15.659] But it's just one of those things. [00:49:15.659 – 00:49:18.319] You know, those pe- people who said I had some potential were right. [00:49:18.319 – 00:49:21.399] I was always in my own way. [00:49:21.399 – 00:49:27.299] And, and so I had a marvelous ex- ex- experience in spite of the conditions.

[00:49:27.299 – 00:49:29.139] I was recommend… [00:49:29.139 – 00:49:33.199] I mean, I was brought up for consideration for release after only two years. [00:49:33.199 – 00:49:35.339] I'd never heard of such a thing. [00:49:35.339 – 00:49:37.239] Neither had anybody there. [00:49:37.239 – 00:49:40.299] They do that once every 10,000 cases. [00:49:40.299 – 00:49:47.559] And they just happened to pick mine because I seemed to be a little extraordinarily out of step with the, the, the, the mainstream. [00:49:47.559 – 00:49:49.679] And, uh, they, they didn't make it. [00:49:49.679 – 00:49:51.209] Th- th- they said the crime was too serious. [00:49:51.209 – 00:49:51.819] And I agreed. [00:49:51.819 – 00:49:53.439] I would have voted exactly the same way.

[00:49:53.439 – 00:49:54.819] And then I was released. [00:49:54.819 – 00:50:01.099] And when I, when I, when I left, I, you know, I, I had the small dreams of anybody leaving their, their cage. [00:50:01.099 – 00:50:09.559] Now, everybody here in, in this room, I guarantee you there's not a soul in this person who hasn't experienced imprisonment. [00:50:09.559 – 00:50:12.139] And it doesn't matter what kind it is. [00:50:12.139 – 00:50:14.699] You know, one prison is just as tough as another. [00:50:14.699 – 00:50:23.239] There are prisons that are called penthouses where people live in bondage in as much as I ever did.

[00:50:23.239 – 00:50:28.499] You know, the worst prison I was ever in, in my life was my life, not my cage. [00:50:28.499 – 00:50:38.599] And so whatever that thing, I think wherever we come out of, whether it's the pe- penitentiary, Betty Ford Center, or whether Prescott, where they're importing alcoholics from all over the world. [00:50:38.599 – 00:50:42.379] It doesn't matter what the cage is. [00:50:42.379 – 00:50:44.859] There's, uh… [00:50:44.859 – 00:50:49.419] Uh, an- anyway, you, you know what I'm talking about. [00:50:49.419 – 00:50:51.199] It– We a- we all have the cages. [00:50:51.199 – 00:50:52.939] They just have different dimensions and look.

[00:50:52.939 – 00:50:58.628] But, but like anybody, I, I had a lot of fear when I, when I, the time came to leave. [00:50:58.628 – 00:51:03.599] But I had an, an, an enormous amount of confidence. [00:51:03.599 – 00:51:05.509] I knew AA was my way of life. [00:51:05.509 – 00:51:07.779] I knew that without any question. [00:51:07.779 – 00:51:13.839] You know, people talk about transition and, and, and aftercare stuff, and, and all of that's good stuff. [00:51:13.839 – 00:51:23.979] But I've– but my firm belief is that my, my experience is I've never seen a single man or woman, and I've worked with many

[00:51:23.979 – 00:51:25.679] thousands of them. [00:51:25.679 – 00:51:32.539] One single man or woman who was gonna be a good citizen on the outside who wasn't a good citizen on the inside. [00:51:32.539 – 00:51:37.239] I never seen any conversions at the gate, you know, or at the first bus stop. [00:51:37.239 – 00:51:40.339] You know, the people I see who are gonna change, change. [00:51:40.339 – 00:51:42.079] And then they move on. [00:51:42.079 – 00:51:43.479] And I was that way. [00:51:43.479 – 00:51:47.179] I knew AA was my lifeline, and I, I wanted out of there desperately. [00:51:47.179 – 00:51:55.179] I, I promised myself deep down where I guess a guy lives when the, when the chips are down.

[00:51:55.179 – 00:51:59.599] When I walked out of there, I will never go through this indignity again. [00:51:59.599 – 00:52:00.899] And I meant that. [00:52:00.899 – 00:52:06.799] I didn't mean if things go well, if I get a job, if I've got money. [00:52:06.799 – 00:52:07.999] There were no ifs. [00:52:07.999 – 00:52:14.559] I said, "I won't go through this indignity again." And I didn't mean I was too tough and macho to not go. [00:52:14.559 – 00:52:17.539] I meant I would do whatever it took. [00:52:17.539 – 00:52:19.939] I didn't care what it took. [00:52:19.939 – 00:52:25.609] I don't think the threat's very imminent right now.

[00:52:25.609 – 00:52:27.979] Could still happen, but I feel that way today. [00:52:27.979 – 00:52:30.359] I knew AA was my lifeline. [00:52:30.359 – 00:52:36.999] And, and so when I got released on parole, they told me they'd turn me loose if I would agree to go to North Carolina and not stay in Michigan. [00:52:36.999 – 00:52:41.259] And I said, I said, "Let me think it over." No, I didn't either. [00:52:41.259 – 00:52:43.799] I said, "Get out the way. [00:52:43.799 – 00:52:48.109] I'm gone." And I had a contact lined up a year before I was- [00:52:48.445 – 00:52:49.485] Was eligible to be released.

[00:52:49.485 – 00:52:56.805] Uh, I, I'd, I'd seen guys sit in there and fail to have their act together and stay longer than the judge meant from the state. [00:52:56.805 – 00:52:59.285] So I watched, I learned from losers. [00:52:59.285 – 00:53:03.484] And, uh, figured, well, if somebody's gonna hold me up, it ain't gonna be me. [00:53:03.484 – 00:53:05.124] So I had a contact. [00:53:05.124 – 00:53:07.805] I had a job three years before I was eligible to get out. [00:53:07.805 – 00:53:09.425] And so I was ready to go. [00:53:09.425 – 00:53:13.465] I knew that AA was the thing that was gonna make me keep that vow.

[00:53:13.465 – 00:53:14.645] AA was my lifeline. [00:53:14.645 – 00:53:18.245] When I left, I, I, I rode the bus to North Carolina, got off. [00:53:18.245 – 00:53:28.265] I had specific instructions that the first thing you do is, they knew where my address was, that you walk across the street and into [00:53:28.265 – 00:53:30.965] the parole office and report before you do anything. [00:53:30.965 – 00:53:36.045] I said, "Yes, sir." I, I violated parole the first thing. [00:53:36.045 – 00:53:41.845] I stepped off the bus, and I stepped into a phone booth, and I called my contact.

[00:53:41.845 – 00:53:44.625] I talked like a Yankee then. [00:53:44.625 – 00:53:49.265] And, uh, introduced myself and he said, "Yeah, I've been looking for you. [00:53:49.265 – 00:53:54.765] Wanna go to a meeting tonight?" Now that prioritization was 100% right. [00:53:54.765 – 00:53:56.225] Now Jim's an old parole officer. [00:53:56.225 – 00:53:58.445] He, he, he would tell you about that kind of a priority. [00:53:58.445 – 00:54:01.445] See, parole would not keep me out of trouble. [00:54:01.445 – 00:54:04.525] I was never amenable to rules. [00:54:04.525 – 00:54:07.065] Rules were like dares to me. [00:54:07.065 – 00:54:11.525] And so if I'd have tried to think parole is gonna keep me out, you can thump that up.

[00:54:11.525 – 00:54:15.985] I knew that what would keep me out was Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:54:15.985 – 00:54:18.245] That's why I made that phone call. [00:54:18.245 – 00:54:24.145] That's why I made that meeting that night, and many, many, many, many, many nights thereafter. [00:54:24.145 – 00:54:25.165] I was home. [00:54:25.165 – 00:54:29.465] See, if my sobriety's intact, I'm about as tough as they come. [00:54:29.465 – 00:54:37.565] But if I get into a whole bunch of pleasing and trying to play orchestrating o- agencies and junk like that, man, I am, I am dead meat. [00:54:37.565 – 00:54:40.525] And, and so tho- those priorities were right where they belonged.

[00:54:40.525 – 00:54:46.045] And so I hit the ground in a lousy job, worked in a mill sweeping the floor on the third shift. [00:54:46.045 – 00:54:49.005] But I was the most grateful sweeper you've ever seen in your life. [00:54:49.005 – 00:54:52.025] Man, I was dangerous pushing that broom down through there. [00:54:52.025 – 00:54:53.045] You had to get out of the way. [00:54:53.045 – 00:54:54.285] Here he comes, you know. [00:54:54.285 – 00:54:55.965] I tickled to death. [00:54:55.965 – 00:54:59.865] I, I got, uh, immediately active in the program. [00:54:59.865 – 00:55:08.705] Uh, second week I was out, some guys were going to a prison over not too far from my home, said, "Go with us to the prison." I said, "God, no, man, I can't go.

[00:55:08.705 – 00:55:11.445] I just got out." "I can't go back in there. [00:55:11.445 – 00:55:16.635] They, they, they may not let me in, they may not let me out if they do." And so I was flinching about it. [00:55:16.635 – 00:55:21.805] I'm just out of maximum custody on parole, and, uh, they want me to go back to prison. [00:55:21.805 – 00:55:26.065] They said, "Ah, it's okay." It was a little simpler then than apparently it is in Arizona. [00:55:26.065 – 00:55:31.985] Then so they said, "It's okay." So I went second week I was, I was out.

[00:55:31.985 – 00:55:35.225] And amazing thing, man, I kept going back. [00:55:35.225 – 00:55:37.005] Here it is. [00:55:37.005 – 00:55:38.114] Here it is. [00:55:38.114 – 00:55:45.685] You know, I, I honestly believe, I believe in miracles, but I don't mean, you know, I'm not talking about heavenly magic shows. [00:55:45.685 – 00:55:46.505] That's not what I'm talking about. [00:55:46.505 – 00:55:51.365] I'm talking about transforming, life-changing miracles, you know, and I truly believe in that. [00:55:51.365 – 00:55:55.965] You know, I, but I've, I'm a pretty practical, pragmatic sort of guy. [00:55:55.965 – 00:56:02.825] I believe that miracles are what happens when preparation meets opportunity and God does the introduction.

[00:56:02.825 – 00:56:04.725] Amen. [00:56:04.725 – 00:56:04.775] Wow. [00:56:04.775 – 00:56:07.335] And without the preparation, the opportunity won't mean a thing. [00:56:07.335 – 00:56:11.025] And without the opportunity, preparation ain't gonna mean much. [00:56:11.025 – 00:56:16.545] So I believe when those two things come together and God intro- does the introduction, amazing things happen. [00:56:16.545 – 00:56:21.924] I believe this, and it, it sounds almost mystical, but it's an absolute truth. [00:56:21.924 – 00:56:31.825] I believe that what happened to me, uh, when I t- and I turned my life over to this, to this program, a broken and wasted life, and took on a higher power.

[00:56:31.825 – 00:56:40.345] What I have come to believe is that when God's got work for me to do, the walls come down. [00:56:40.345 – 00:56:41.865] The walls come down. [00:56:41.865 – 00:56:42.575] Amen. [00:56:42.575 – 00:56:52.625] And I know that not only on my own unbelievable case, but God knows how many people that I have seen restored or reinstated in life in unbelievable [00:56:52.625 – 00:56:53.345] kinds of ways. [00:56:53.345 – 00:56:58.145] And I, I say it because a lot of unbelievably marvelous things happened to me. [00:56:58.145 – 00:57:00.785] Now, I was a pretty doggone good case. [00:57:00.785 – 00:57:05.635] You know, when I'm out just a couple of months, my parole officer started bringing me problem cases.

[00:57:05.635 – 00:57:10.125] And he's still orienting me, but you can tell when somebody's got that light in the eye. [00:57:10.125 – 00:57:10.545] You know it. [00:57:10.545 – 00:57:12.785] And man, I'm ready to charge, and he knew it. [00:57:12.785 – 00:57:15.785] So he'd bring me these bad cases and just dump them on my yard. [00:57:15.785 – 00:57:17.965] And, uh, so we'd go at it. [00:57:17.965 – 00:57:25.265] So two months after I was out, I'm talking to you about things that ought not to happen. [00:57:25.265 – 00:57:27.745] I'm on parole from maximum custody. [00:57:27.745 – 00:57:28.965] I'm on the ground two months.

[00:57:28.965 – 00:57:32.805] I was named outside sponsor of that prison. [00:57:32.805 – 00:57:43.445] I'm the same guy who wondered if he would ever be trusted by anybody, and I'm elected as a trusted servant to [00:57:43.445 – 00:57:45.365] provide a vital service i- in a prison. [00:57:45.365 – 00:57:47.485] And I was, man, I was grateful. [00:57:47.485 – 00:57:50.305] I, I, I couldn't have been more honored if I'd been elected governor. [00:57:50.305 – 00:57:52.695] That was just a powerful, wonderful, wonderful experience. [00:57:52.695 – 00:57:58.605] About the same time, a parole guy came to me one day and said, "Tom, you're real active in this AA thing," which was an understatement.

[00:57:58.605 – 00:58:04.005] And, uh, I said, "Yes, sir." And it concerned me because I thought he was gonna t- tell me I need to slow down, and I knew I wouldn't. [00:58:04.005 – 00:58:05.285] Ain't no way. [00:58:05.285 – 00:58:15.825] And he said, "Wouldn't it help you if you could drive?" Now, for obvious reasons, I'd taken two lives with a vehicle and just gotten out of prison for that. [00:58:15.825 – 00:58:25.865] And, um, and he said, "Wouldn't it help you if you could drive?" And I said, "Yes, sir, but I can't." And he said, "Well, let me check it out." And a lot of times when, when somebody in the

[00:58:25.865 – 00:58:28.325] government tells you, "Let me check it out," that means goodbye. [00:58:28.325 – 00:58:31.125] But it didn't mean it in that case. [00:58:31.125 – 00:58:38.485] So, and he called me a little later and he said, "Can you meet me at the Sears store uptown?" I di- I swear this sounds like real country. [00:58:38.485 – 00:58:41.765] Um, yeah, that's where the license agency was. [00:58:41.765 – 00:58:45.225] My sister drove me up to Sears, pulled up front, and I could see my guy back. [00:58:45.225 – 00:58:45.905] Went back there. [00:58:45.905 – 00:58:51.965] He was talking to a guy I didn't know, and they, we, they cha- continued to chat, and then they turned around and acknowledged me.

[00:58:51.965 – 00:58:55.485] And my guy introduced me to the other fellow, who was the license guy. [00:58:55.485 – 00:58:59.897] And then we howdy-doo'd, and then the, the fella said, "Mr. [00:58:59.897 – 00:59:10.617] Logan," my parole guy, "says you might like to have your driver's license." And I said, "Well, yes, sir." And now don't ask me to explain it, [00:59:10.617 – 00:59:14.437] but you go to the bank on it, but it is exactly what happened. [00:59:14.437 – 00:59:18.907] The guy said, "Okay," and handed me a driver's license. [00:59:18.907 – 00:59:21.277] Didn't even ask me if I could drive.

[00:59:21.277 – 00:59:22.947] I, he didn't ask me anything. [00:59:22.947 – 00:59:24.837] They handed me a driver's license. [00:59:24.837 – 00:59:27.217] No test of any sort whatsoever. [00:59:27.217 – 00:59:29.317] Didn't even pay for it. [00:59:29.317 – 00:59:30.877] I don't know who did. [00:59:30.877 – 00:59:31.677] Probably stolen. [00:59:31.677 – 00:59:32.197] I don't know. [00:59:32.197 – 00:59:37.857] It, uh, it, it, it can't be legal, but I've been driving ever since. [00:59:37.857 – 00:59:40.357] Yeah. [00:59:40.357 – 00:59:44.177] When God's got work for us to do, walls come down. [00:59:44.177 – 00:59:45.757] They truly come down. [00:59:45.757 – 00:59:48.717] Five months after I was out, I was elected DCM. [00:59:48.717 – 00:59:54.117] Same guy that wondered if he'd ever be trusted, if he'd ever have a friend.

[00:59:54.117 – 01:00:02.957] DCM, the trusted servant for 15 cities in my state, and I, I tr- truly appreciate it. [01:00:02.957 – 01:00:11.637] I'd finished two years at Michigan State, not at Michigan State, but from Michigan State while I was locked up getting off speed. [01:00:11.637 – 01:00:17.677] And, uh, and that, uh, I barely knew how to spell DCM. [01:00:17.677 – 01:00:19.497] But, but I was it. [01:00:19.497 – 01:00:22.736] And, and I wasn't a bad one, but I tell you, I hit the ground running. [01:00:22.736 – 01:00:26.117] Man, they knew they had one because I knocked every door that was available.

[01:00:26.117 – 01:00:33.577] So anyway, if you can see what's happening, here's a young guy getting reinstated into life in, in unbelievable terms. [01:00:33.577 – 01:00:40.197] Two years after I was out, I was sitting in my house one day, got a phone call from the, a fella at the state capitol. [01:00:40.197 – 01:00:43.277] And, and he was a man that I had met once. [01:00:43.277 – 01:00:45.017] I didn't know him, but he had come by. [01:00:45.017 – 01:00:52.637] He was with the prison system, and he came by the unit visiting where I was inside, uh, doing the AA meeting.

[01:00:52.637 – 01:00:54.197] And I guess somebody told him… [01:00:54.197 – 01:00:58.517] I didn't know him as, uh, but somebody must have said, "Stop by and just meet this guy," or something. [01:00:58.517 – 01:01:00.087] And so he stuck his head in the door. [01:01:00.087 – 01:01:03.217] We probably chatted two minutes, and he left. [01:01:03.217 – 01:01:06.517] And, and so it, it, when, when that call came, it was him. [01:01:06.517 – 01:01:08.556] And, and I, I remembered him. [01:01:08.556 – 01:01:12.397] And, and he, he said, "Mr. [01:01:12.397 – 01:01:22.597] Ivester, we're expanding the rehabilitation program in our prison system, and we were wondering if you would consider accepting

[01:01:22.597 – 01:01:27.497] a position." Now, now you've, you've, you just heard who he's talking to. [01:01:27.497 – 01:01:28.457] Yeah. [01:01:28.457 – 01:01:31.857] Man, I'm still on parole from maximum custody. [01:01:31.857 – 01:01:32.497] Yeah. [01:01:32.497 – 01:01:42.557] Here's an official from a state prison system saying, "Won't you consider coming to work for us as a professional employee?" And the [01:01:42.557 – 01:01:47.757] first thing I said was, "Man, do you know who you're talking to?" And he said, "Oh, yeah. [01:01:47.757 – 01:01:48.237] Oh, yeah. [01:01:48.237 – 01:01:50.497] We've checked you out." And of course they had. [01:01:50.497 – 01:01:54.337] And now here, here's the thing that, that makes that unbelievable.

[01:01:54.337 – 01:02:02.137] That, that's not shocking news today, but you can hurry up and believe in 1961 that was shocking news. [01:02:02.137 – 01:02:11.657] There had never been an ex-con in history on this planet hired into a professional position in a tr- in a prison system. [01:02:11.657 – 01:02:14.537] I knew that, and I knew they weren't gonna start with me. [01:02:14.537 – 01:02:16.077] But they did. [01:02:16.077 – 01:02:20.477] And so I was employed in 1961 as a rehabilitation officer. [01:02:20.477 – 01:02:22.997] And I, I, I, I won't go into detail. [01:02:22.997 – 01:02:26.317] If we were talking about traditions, I would tell you about the value of tradition.

[01:02:26.317 – 01:02:32.937] When you're the only guy on the planet with a, with a, with an experience, pretty hard to find colleagues. [01:02:32.937 – 01:02:37.757] It's pretty hard to find people that you can sort of bare your soul with when you're the only guy with the experience. [01:02:37.757 – 01:02:46.977] I'll just simply say that AA tradition gave me more guidance than anything I've ever had in management or in college or anywhere else. [01:02:46.977 – 01:02:50.837] It, it, more precise guidance about how to function. [01:02:50.837 – 01:02:54.397] In other words, what they're about is about how to have effective relationship.

[01:02:54.397 – 01:02:56.477] And, man, those things were invaluable to me. [01:02:56.477 – 01:02:58.276] I had to make some decisions. [01:02:58.276 – 01:03:06.817] You know, I could have been some sort of a notorious hoodlum hero and been on every scandal sheet in the country, but I had no interest in that. [01:03:06.817 – 01:03:11.097] I'm not interested in marketing my wounds, not s- not at all. [01:03:11.097 – 01:03:13.757] I'm a very strong believer in tradition. [01:03:13.757 – 01:03:15.397] Very strong believer. [01:03:15.397 – 01:03:20.657] I believe they're life-saving and life-giving, and so I'm, I'm, I, I practice it. [01:03:20.657 – 01:03:21.856] I, I don't just talk about it.

[01:03:21.856 – 01:03:21.907] I pr- [01:03:22.101 – 01:03:22.431] practice it. [01:03:22.431 – 01:03:24.771] And, and those things were invaluable to me. [01:03:24.771 – 01:03:32.431] I had to decide if I'm gonna be some kind of a tabloid hero or if I'm gonna take my place in the ranks as a professional. [01:03:32.431 – 01:03:42.051] And my belief is, if I'm gonna be a pr- if I'm gonna take money, I'm a professional, and I, it's my, my deal to act like that. [01:03:42.051 – 01:03:47.651] I finished up my training in corrections administration and graduated from a university down in our state.

[01:03:47.651 – 01:03:50.751] Never r- I didn't really need to. [01:03:50.751 – 01:03:57.471] I tell you, my career took off so quickly that, I mean, I don't think they had any concern about education or tickets or anything. [01:03:57.471 – 01:03:59.111] They would just, it's people who do a job. [01:03:59.111 – 01:04:02.811] And so I just started getting yanked, uh, uh, ahead in the system. [01:04:02.811 – 01:04:07.191] And I tell you, you, you can, I, I don't care what you do with it, but you can believe it. [01:04:07.191 – 01:04:17.631] From the day that I got my first job sweeping that floor in that mill until I finished my professional employment

[01:04:17.631 – 01:04:24.891] after a 39-year career, I went from who I've just told you about to the top of my profession. [01:04:24.891 – 01:04:26.411] To the top. [01:04:26.411 – 01:04:28.271] Here it is. [01:04:28.271 – 01:04:32.591] I never applied for one single job. [01:04:32.591 – 01:04:37.191] Promotion, transfer, pay raise, nothing. [01:04:37.191 – 01:04:45.171] God, there's a hunger for, for capable, really, uh, uh, people who will take care of a job. [01:04:45.171 – 01:04:46.911] There's a hunger for leadership. [01:04:46.911 – 01:04:48.971] And, and I tell you, I would have been… [01:04:48.971 – 01:04:50.751] I didn't even ask them if they paid. [01:04:50.751 – 01:04:54.611] I, I would have done it for nothing, and they started paying me on a regular basis.

[01:04:54.611 – 01:04:59.851] And I'd have been happy with the same job I started with forever. [01:04:59.851 – 01:05:07.151] And, uh, but strange thing, I started to get pulled into supervision, then into management and into directing some programs. [01:05:07.151 – 01:05:15.191] And, and then one day, the most, I think the most unbelievable thing I've ever encountered in my life, the head of our system, Jim, Jim, knew him. [01:05:15.191 – 01:05:18.551] He, he, he's a, uh, uh, he's a, he's a wonderful man. [01:05:18.551 – 01:05:24.401] He's a, he's an academician and a sort of a scientist thing, but a, a wonderful visionary humanitarian.

[01:05:24.401 – 01:05:26.851] I had a real love-hate relationship with him. [01:05:26.851 – 01:05:28.291] I just despised that with… [01:05:28.291 – 01:05:29.571] But he was a wonderful guy. [01:05:29.571 – 01:05:32.131] He really was, was job-oriented. [01:05:32.131 – 01:05:38.111] He called me and said, "Come by, uh, the office if, if, if you can," and I said, "Yeah, I will." So I came by. [01:05:38.111 – 01:05:42.191] That normally meant he wanted me to pinch hit for him somewhere, you know, making a speech or something. [01:05:42.191 – 01:05:52.311] I, so I went by, "Yeah, boss, what?" And he said, "Tom, I want you to take over an institution as warden." Now, I tell you,

[01:05:52.311 – 01:05:57.511] o- of all the things a guy in a joint thinks about, that one does not make the list. [01:05:57.511 – 01:05:58.620] I… [01:05:58.620 – 01:06:03.451] And, and when he said that, when I got up off the floor… [01:06:03.451 – 01:06:07.111] Now, I mean, I'm in the system, but I mean, he's talking about being the man. [01:06:07.111 – 01:06:09.771] I, a- and I got up off the floor. [01:06:09.771 – 01:06:11.291] I said, "Oh, come on, boss. [01:06:11.291 – 01:06:21.431] I don't want to be," pardon the vernacular, but I said, "I don't want to be the head screw." And he said, "Well, I want you to do it." And I said, "Tell me what you got in mind."

[01:06:21.431 – 01:06:24.271] He wouldn't have, he wouldn't have commanded me to do it, I don't think. [01:06:24.271 – 01:06:26.590] And he s- t- he said, tell… [01:06:26.590 – 01:06:28.291] He, he told me what he had in mind. [01:06:28.291 – 01:06:31.451] I'm the kind of guy, now, I'm not a manager. [01:06:31.451 – 01:06:32.801] You know, I, I'm not a manager. [01:06:32.801 – 01:06:35.551] I've been in management positions, but I, I don't think management. [01:06:35.551 – 01:06:39.431] I don't think about making stuff run and fit quotas and all that. [01:06:39.431 – 01:06:43.191] You know, I'm a designer, a creator, a, a t- type of guy.

[01:06:43.191 – 01:06:43.951] I think that way. [01:06:43.951 – 01:06:48.071] If I, if I do a program today, you can bet I'm working on the next increment tomorrow. [01:06:48.071 – 01:06:49.291] I mean, that's just the way I… [01:06:49.291 – 01:06:50.271] And he knew that. [01:06:50.271 – 01:06:52.711] He, he knew I was a, a limit tester and all that. [01:06:52.711 – 01:06:53.431] He wanted that. [01:06:53.431 – 01:06:54.891] That's why he called me. [01:06:54.891 – 01:06:58.411] I mean, he wasn't looking for somebody that was experienced in machine gun 101. [01:06:58.411 – 01:07:01.411] He wanted somebody to build something that hadn't been built. [01:07:01.411 – 01:07:02.871] And so he called.

[01:07:02.871 – 01:07:03.271] He said… [01:07:03.271 – 01:07:04.531] And he knew he had me. [01:07:04.531 – 01:07:07.271] I, he told me, and I said, "All right, boss. [01:07:07.271 – 01:07:14.231] By golly, we'll do it." And that started a 20-year increment of my career in, in which, um, that was my MO. [01:07:14.231 – 01:07:17.791] I was basically the go-to guy for developing new projects. [01:07:17.791 – 01:07:20.331] And, uh, that is a wonderful experience. [01:07:20.331 – 01:07:24.531] That, I tell you, I, I know my bu- I keep pointing to my buddy, but we're the colleagues here. [01:07:24.531 – 01:07:26.590] We're the old, old wardens, old hard heads.

[01:07:26.590 – 01:07:29.831] And, uh, but we go back a lot of years. [01:07:29.831 – 01:07:37.291] And so I had a, an absolutely unbelievable ki- kind of a career that was just, just… [01:07:37.291 – 01:07:38.811] I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. [01:07:38.811 – 01:07:41.920] It's a tough business, but it's like the Peace Corps. [01:07:41.920 – 01:07:43.651] It's the toughest job you'll ever love. [01:07:43.651 – 01:07:45.991] And, and so I, I really cherished that. [01:07:45.991 – 01:07:47.671] And so I did that for many years. [01:07:47.671 – 01:07:57.891] And then I started to retire, and, uh, they, the, the boss said, "How about before you get out of here, uh, how about setting

[01:07:57.891 – 01:08:00.931] up an alcohol and drug program for me?" I'd never even been in one. [01:08:00.931 – 01:08:02.571] I predated that kind of stuff. [01:08:02.571 – 01:08:06.731] They didn't even have detox unless you call county jail detox when I came along. [01:08:06.731 – 01:08:09.371] I knew nothing about it. [01:08:09.371 – 01:08:14.471] I mean, I sponsored some guys that, that worked in that, that field, but I knew nothing about it. [01:08:14.471 – 01:08:20.371] And he said, "Do it." And, and, and I said, "All right." So I stayed on. [01:08:20.371 – 01:08:30.631] I, I worked about 10 more years before, passed my full, full, full retirement eli- eligibility and put together, I, I, I, I, I'm a little biased, but I think the finest

[01:08:30.631 – 01:08:31.781] treatment program in the world. [01:08:31.781 – 01:08:40.491] That we had 92 prisons, and every one of them had continuum of care in every one of them, 15 treatment facilities in that. [01:08:40.491 – 01:08:42.471] And it was a wonderful thing. [01:08:42.471 – 01:08:44.431] A- and I had a magnificent time. [01:08:44.431 – 01:08:50.131] You know, I'm a guy who's enormously blessed, you know, with, I mean, that certainly. [01:08:50.131 – 01:08:51.931] You know, the, a career was an important thing. [01:08:51.931 – 01:08:55.391] I'll, I'll close a- around o- one other theme. [01:08:55.391 – 01:08:58.431] It's a, it's a blessing when you don't know what time you started.

[01:08:58.431 – 01:09:01.441] That's… [01:09:01.441 – 01:09:04.011] I'll ju- I'll just close around this, this kind of a theme. [01:09:04.011 – 01:09:07.711] I, when, when… [01:09:07.711 – 01:09:09.931] I'm an active member of Alcoholics Anonymous. [01:09:09.931 – 01:09:10.751] I didn't used to be. [01:09:10.751 – 01:09:11.411] I am. [01:09:11.411 – 01:09:15.291] I'm the busiest man I know, and I wouldn't have it any other way. [01:09:15.291 – 01:09:20.591] When I got through with my career, I'd been in a high-pressure career for, for 39 years. [01:09:20.591 – 01:09:25.471] And I had some visions of maybe sitting in the mud or something and just sort of taking a break.

[01:09:25.471 – 01:09:29.091] Had visions, but, hey, grapevine is a remarkable thing. [01:09:29.091 – 01:09:32.283] The word got around that the old boy's gonna hang it up. [01:09:32.283 – 01:09:40.443] So we, we don't have official recruiters in AA, but we got folks with good antlers, man. [01:09:40.443 – 01:09:41.083] They hear you. [01:09:41.083 – 01:09:42.323] So I … [01:09:42.323 – 01:09:52.403] delegation came to see me and said, uh, "Hear you're gonna retire." I said, "Oh yeah, man, I'm going to the farm." And, uh, they said, "Well, we need some [01:09:52.403 – 01:09:55.203] leadership in CFC," what you call H&I.

[01:09:55.203 – 01:09:57.943] And, uh, said, "We…" And I knew it. [01:09:57.943 – 01:09:59.443] I mean, I, I was not out of touch. [01:09:59.443 – 01:10:01.063] I was well aware of that. [01:10:01.063 – 01:10:02.302] They said, "We need some leadership. [01:10:02.302 – 01:10:11.603] We, we wondered if you would, uh, consider taking the area chair job." And, uh, and I, I mean, I had a f- naturally. [01:10:11.603 – 01:10:16.263] I, I mean, I was just finishing 39 years, and I'm wanting to just let my breath out and just take, take a break. [01:10:16.263 – 01:10:21.563] And I, so I thought, now it d- you know, d- decisions don't take long.

[01:10:21.563 – 01:10:23.503] Indecision takes a, a while. [01:10:23.503 – 01:10:27.983] And so I t- I gave myself about 30 seconds to think about it. [01:10:27.983 – 01:10:31.853] And I thought fleetingly about, "Geez, I got golf clubs. [01:10:31.853 – 01:10:35.843] Maybe I could go play and do something." But that was quick. [01:10:35.843 – 01:10:39.623] And then, uh, then a disturbing thought occurred to me. [01:10:39.623 – 01:10:47.983] If there's a man in this country that understands the dilemma of the alcoholic man or woman in prison, it's you, big guy. [01:10:47.983 – 01:10:48.773] Mm-hmm. [01:10:48.773 – 01:10:53.963] And if there's somebody that has access to a system, it's you, big guy.

[01:10:53.963 – 01:10:56.063] I hired half the people in there it seemed like. [01:10:56.063 – 01:10:57.373] I mean, a ton of them. [01:10:57.373 – 01:10:59.222] So I had full access. [01:10:59.222 – 01:11:07.323] And, and, and my belief is, I don't wanna put it on anything anyb- anything on anybody here, but I know that you, you, you're dominantly people who do some work in this program. [01:11:07.323 – 01:11:08.263] You're not philosophers. [01:11:08.263 – 01:11:09.133] You, you're workers. [01:11:09.133 – 01:11:19.323] And what my thought was, and m- it is today, if I can take a look at a need like that, that I am perfectly

[01:11:19.323 – 01:11:26.183] capable of addressing, and selfishly turn my back and walk away, there's not much to me. [01:11:26.183 – 01:11:29.583] And I'm not the guy you would want speaking here today. [01:11:29.583 – 01:11:31.963] So I had to respond to that. [01:11:31.963 – 01:11:35.243] And so I took that job, and, and I've had a, a marvelous time. [01:11:35.243 – 01:11:37.783] I'm still tremendously involved in that. [01:11:37.783 – 01:11:42.463] You know, just kinda like the old delegates were talking about, that we don't rotate. [01:11:42.463 – 01:11:44.083] We just sort of move forward, you know? [01:11:44.083 – 01:11:45.503] And rotate doesn't mean quit.

[01:11:45.503 – 01:11:47.643] It just move, move on to the next thing. [01:11:47.643 – 01:11:50.043] And, and so that, and, and that's what I did. [01:11:50.043 – 01:11:51.783] I'm still tremendously involved. [01:11:51.783 – 01:12:01.963] Uh, my s- my specialty that I'm trying to help our folks do, and I heard a lot of it in our panels here today, was how to negotiate effectively with institutions to get good solid [01:12:01.963 – 01:12:04.002] programs in place. [01:12:04.002 – 01:12:07.323] And, and, and my belief, and I won't go into it, I'll just say this. [01:12:07.323 – 01:12:17.503] My belief, not only my belief, my commitment, is that I will never start another program in a prison, a hospital, a detox, or anything else

[01:12:17.503 – 01:12:20.403] that I don't have my first meeting with the senior person. [01:12:20.403 – 01:12:23.703] Don't care who he is or she is. [01:12:23.703 – 01:12:33.463] I'm gonna meet with the senior, senior person because it is critically important in an organization that the person at the top position be known to the other staff. [01:12:33.463 – 01:12:39.283] If the person at the top poses a question mark, that means no to staff. [01:12:39.283 – 01:12:42.223] It's very important for people to be on record. [01:12:42.223 – 01:12:51.863] I don't want them to go to meetings with me, but I want them to, to say, "Yeah, we wanna do this, and we're gonna give it your, your full support." And so I, I do a lot of that kind of thing, of helping to get stuff going.

[01:12:51.863 – 01:12:56.003] We have 80 prisons in, in our system, so we've got plenty of stuff to do. [01:12:56.003 – 01:12:58.563] And we're build- like you guys, we're building them willy-nilly. [01:12:58.563 – 01:13:01.403] So s- stuff like that. [01:13:01.403 – 01:13:07.683] I, I wanna share this last thing with you, and that's a lot of what I do. [01:13:07.683 – 01:13:10.103] I'm involved in every element of AA service. [01:13:10.103 – 01:13:16.323] My, my, my, my real prime thing is what I'm focused on in, in, in, in corrections. [01:13:16.323 – 01:13:18.763] I, I wanna t- I don't normally give out l- leaflets.

[01:13:18.763 – 01:13:24.323] I gave one to, uh, to Jack, and, uh, he said he's just looking for something like I had. [01:13:24.323 – 01:13:27.163] He's the first guy I've ever handed something to, to unsolicited. [01:13:27.163 – 01:13:30.363] Uh, just those coi- coincidences happen. [01:13:30.363 – 01:13:34.943] I was doing a workshop a while back, and I've got a few copies of this. [01:13:34.943 – 01:13:37.423] It says, uh, Dennis is the state secretary. [01:13:37.423 – 01:13:41.773] I'll give it to him, and I'll give some to Greg 'cause they're both rich and have copy machines. [01:13:41.773 – 01:13:42.913] If you want it- …

[01:13:42.913 – 01:13:44.183] just let them know. [01:13:44.183 – 01:13:48.143] They'll be happy to provide that with your contributions. [01:13:48.143 – 01:13:55.633] It, it, started to do a workshop, and I say about, you know, we always talk about what we do and what we present. [01:13:56.618 – 01:14:03.638] And I decided that how about if I turn that around and take a look, what have I learned about corrections? [01:14:03.638 – 01:14:07.318] What have I really come to believe about AA in corrections? [01:14:07.318 – 01:14:12.158] Spanning over, uh, all these years, what have I come to believe?

[01:14:12.158 – 01:14:16.938] And th-these are just a few core beliefs that I have, and I won't elaborate on any of them. [01:14:16.938 – 01:14:20.398] But, uh, uh, you, you're welcome to, to grab this. [01:14:20.398 – 01:14:29.918] One, the program is exactly the, the same for those inside as it is for those outside. [01:14:29.918 – 01:14:31.438] Exactly the same. [01:14:31.438 – 01:14:38.798] Two, the people inside are far more like me than unlike me. [01:14:38.798 – 01:14:49.138] Three, the challenges met in recovery are at least, at least as great for those on the inside [01:14:49.138 – 01:14:50.738] as for anyone.

[01:14:50.738 – 01:15:00.478] Four, every tradition can be practiced 100%. [01:15:00.478 – 01:15:02.858] I believe that. [01:15:02.858 – 01:15:13.138] Five, corrections staff are usually willing to offer full cooperation if they understand our purpose [01:15:13.138 – 01:15:13.918] and function. [01:15:13.918 – 01:15:24.538] Seven, sound business procedures contribute significantly to the spirit [01:15:24.538 – 01:15:28.538] of our cooperative relationship with corrections staff. [01:15:28.538 – 01:15:31.618] Eight, we … [01:15:31.618 – 01:15:34.618] Here it is in relation to some of what we've talked about here today. [01:15:34.618 – 01:15:35.638] These, the next two. [01:15:35.638 – 01:15:42.928] We spend far too much time working on arrangements and routine operation. [01:15:42.928 – 01:15:52.338] And the next one says, we spend far too little time working on the quality and effectiveness of what we do.

[01:15:52.338 – 01:16:00.138] 10, a sound and well-implemented program works very well with good results. [01:16:00.138 – 01:16:09.718] 11, people are most willing to respond to specific requests for help, either service or material. [01:16:09.718 – 01:16:17.678] 12, you can help someone in a correctional facility by simply showing up. [01:16:17.678 – 01:16:26.118] 13, here it is now, my belief. [01:16:26.118 – 01:16:36.148] My work is with alcoholics who happen to be confined, not inmates, prisoners, or [01:16:36.148 – 01:16:40.578] convicts, with alcoholics who happen to be confined. [01:16:40.578 – 01:16:49.318] 14, don't do anything for one person that I could not or would not do for everyone in the group.

[01:16:49.318 – 01:16:58.498] 15, being an enthusiastic, good example of recovery is a great contribution. [01:16:58.498 – 01:17:01.218] Remember the guy who spoke at my first meeting? [01:17:01.218 – 01:17:02.858] See why I'm biased that way. [01:17:02.858 – 01:17:12.068] I put this one in bold print, and I heard it here today: Keeping commitments is extremely important. [01:17:12.068 – 01:17:14.698] Walk like you talk. [01:17:14.698 – 01:17:21.938] 17, profane and vulgar language impresses no one. [01:17:21.938 – 01:17:31.178] 18, speaker meetings, and I'm talking about like this, getting up front of the group and telling your story. [01:17:31.178 – 01:17:40.898] Speaker meetings at an established frequency should be a regular feature of groups in corrections.

[01:17:40.898 – 01:17:50.348] 19, always remember that someone new to AA is present at most meetings in correctional facilities. [01:17:50.348 – 01:17:52.287] Outside, too, by the way. [01:17:52.287 – 01:18:02.698] And 20, there is no type of service that is more rewarding than the powerful, accountable relationship that is established [01:18:02.698 – 01:18:07.858] when I take a long-term, regular commitment to a group in a correctional facility. [01:18:07.858 – 01:18:12.998] I sponsor one today, and somebody gonna have to take that away from me. [01:18:12.998 – 01:18:13.998] I ain't gonna rotate. [01:18:13.998 – 01:18:14.618] I'm staying. [01:18:14.618 – 01:18:15.137] Thanks. [01:18:15.137 – 01:18:22.478] Well, folks, it's good to see you.

[01:18:22.478 – 01:18:24.498] I'm Tom, an alcoholic. [01:18:24.498 – 01:18:26.548] And Tom. [01:18:26.548 – 01:18:30.238] I have my usual raspiness, but we'll get over that. [01:18:30.238 – 01:18:35.638] I'm a member of the Primary Purpose group of AA in Southern Pines, North Carolina. [01:18:35.638 – 01:18:42.878] They broke up about, I, s-s– I can't count that high, but about two hours ago, I think, something like that. [01:18:42.878 – 01:18:48.258] And they are celebrating my 50th anniversary tonight in my own group. [01:18:48.258 – 01:18:58.318] I don't know who's gonna take the, take the medallion, but my wife took a cake big as a football field.

[01:18:58.318 – 01:19:02.778] So they– Well, they knew where I was coming. [01:19:02.778 – 01:19:05.458] Uh, but I am delighted to be here. [01:19:05.458 – 01:19:07.978] I was about to go into Arizona withdrawal. [01:19:07.978 – 01:19:11.038] Hadn't been here for, what, three or four weeks. [01:19:11.038 – 01:19:13.928] So it's, it's good to be back. [01:19:13.928 – 01:19:17.298] And it's good to be back seeing it look like Arizona. [01:19:17.298 – 01:19:19.338] The last time I was here, I thought I was in Seattle. [01:19:19.338 – 01:19:21.258] Rained the whole weekend. [01:19:21.258 – 01:19:24.277] I thought, "God, that can't be Phoenix." But sure enough. [01:19:24.277 – 01:19:26.438] But I am delighted to see.

[01:19:26.438 – 01:19:29.918] I was g- really appreciate hearing Bill do that How it Works. [01:19:29.918 – 01:19:31.018] That brings back memories. [01:19:31.018 – 01:19:41.568] I– One of the few values I think of being old is, uh, uh, uh, to have the opportunity to meet Bill and, and listen to that voice, and that brings back [01:19:41.568 – 01:19:44.378] memories that, uh, a real personal kind of a touch. [01:19:44.378 – 01:19:45.978] So I appreciate hearing that. [01:19:45.978 – 01:19:54.998] I w- I appreciate this, uh, th-this, uh, longest birthday card in the world, I think. [01:19:54.998 – 01:19:55.498] Gosh.

[01:19:55.498 – 01:20:05.690] I, I, it reminds me, it doesn't particularly remind me of it, but it makes me think one more time about how important [01:20:05.690 – 01:20:10.190] it is for me to know that celebrating an anniversary is not about me. [01:20:10.190 – 01:20:12.770] It, it's a celebration of we. [01:20:12.770 – 01:20:22.950] And, and I think it's very appropriate that a bunch of us in Arizona come together in that same spirit of, of celebration, of just the affirmation [01:20:22.950 – 01:20:27.010] that this thing really does work for a long, long time.

[01:20:27.010 – 01:20:31.370] And, uh, so I, I appreciate being here with you and, and being able to celebrate that. [01:20:31.370 – 01:20:35.290] And they, uh, I, I wanna tell you how that came about. [01:20:35.290 – 01:20:45.370] I, I was thinking, uh, uh, right before I got up here that when I came into Alcoholics Anonymous, I was literally [01:20:45.370 – 01:20:47.830] the most isolated guy I have ever known. [01:20:47.830 – 01:20:56.750] I've worked with a lot of bad drunks, but I don't think I've ever met anybody that was more completely shut off and isolated than I was.

[01:20:56.750 – 01:21:06.710] And, and man alive, when I think about that today, and think about the fact that there isn't a, a state in, in, in, in the United States… [01:21:06.710 – 01:21:14.920] I'll go to my last state that, the, the, the only one I hadn't visited was Hawaii, and I'm going over there in May, and, uh, that will complete the 50. [01:21:14.920 – 01:21:17.750] But even in Hawaii, there are good friends. [01:21:17.750 – 01:21:26.210] Not a state in this country that I don't have warm, personal friends that we don't have– We just, when we meet, we just start talking.

[01:21:26.210 – 01:21:27.930] We don't need to go through any awkwardness. [01:21:27.930 – 01:21:29.590] It's just a, just a natural thing. [01:21:29.590 – 01:21:36.290] There's hardly a country in the world that I don't have some people that would, would, would, we would call each other friend. [01:21:36.290 – 01:21:43.910] And, and that in itself is just a, um, a magical kind of a display of what happens in this program. [01:21:43.910 – 01:21:54.090] And all I did was give a broken and wasted life to this simple program, and it gave me back a life beyond anything I could have ever imagined, and, and has, and has

[01:21:54.090 – 01:21:57.570] given me warm and important relationships all over the globe. [01:21:57.570 – 01:22:00.510] And that, that is something I'm deeply, deeply grateful for. [01:22:00.510 – 01:22:10.680] I truly believe that I am, and I hope you feel the same way, but I truly believe that I'm the most, literally the most, the most fortunate man that I know, [01:22:10.680 – 01:22:14.150] anywhere in any conditions. [01:22:14.150 – 01:22:16.310] I love the life I live. [01:22:16.310 – 01:22:18.350] I wouldn't trade places with Bill Gates. [01:22:18.350 – 01:22:20.690] Might trade bank accounts. [01:22:20.690 – 01:22:24.349] But I would not go trade, trade places with that boy.

[01:22:24.349 – 01:22:30.060] Uh, so, uh, let me tell you how that, how that came about. [01:22:30.060 – 01:22:37.340] By the way, I'm not a great, uh, aficionado of, of being an old-timer. [01:22:37.340 – 01:22:39.530] I don't really consider myself an old-timer. [01:22:39.530 – 01:22:40.670] A lot of other people do. [01:22:40.670 – 01:22:46.710] But, but I don't wanna be an old-timer, uh, i-in-in-in the sense of what that sounds like. [01:22:46.710 – 01:22:52.350] I don't mind having some years of sobriety, but I don't wanna, I don't wanna think of being an old-timer. [01:22:52.350 – 01:22:59.090] I wanna be somebody who's not just studying history, but who's helping write the next pages of history.

[01:22:59.090 – 01:23:03.970] So I wanna be involved in a real dynamic, proactive kind of deal in here. [01:23:03.970 – 01:23:13.770] So I, I don't ever wanna become sort of categorized as some, one of the old goats that's out to pasture because you, you gotta build a sturdy pasture to keep me in it. [01:23:13.770 – 01:23:16.590] So, so I, I don't wanna be that. [01:23:16.590 – 01:23:18.050] It's the same way when I came in. [01:23:18.050 – 01:23:20.610] It's ironic how the wheel t- wheel turns. [01:23:20.610 – 01:23:24.110] Now I'm almost always the oldest rat in every barn I visit.

[01:23:24.110 – 01:23:32.560] And, uh, when I first came in, for a number of years, I was a, I was the youngest rat in every, every barn that I visited. [01:23:32.560 – 01:23:34.850] So it's a, it just happens over time. [01:23:34.850 – 01:23:39.710] And so what happened, I'm, I'm just gonna kinda get at it with, um… [01:23:39.710 – 01:23:46.580] You know, I was a guy whose, whose, uh, whose life came to an end, just like most of us who find recovery. [01:23:46.580 – 01:23:52.270] I came to that point where it just absolutely came to an end, and I could have picked it back up.

[01:23:52.270 – 01:23:59.750] But I was brought to a stop forcibly enough and surely enough that I was, uh, had the opportunity to take a look at myself. [01:23:59.750 – 01:24:01.230] Now, there was nothing pleasant about it. [01:24:01.230 – 01:24:11.150] When I came to my senses and came to full awareness of who I was, where I was, what I had done with my life, it was not a pleasant scene any way you looked at it. [01:24:11.150 – 01:24:14.170] I was twenty-four years old when I… [01:24:14.170 – 01:24:17.970] and, and I was sitting in a maximum custody penitentiary up in the state of Michigan.

[01:24:17.970 – 01:24:24.450] I, I met a man here tonight who worked in the Michigan prison system, and he, he got away, just like I did. [01:24:24.450 – 01:24:26.310] He, he left under different terms. [01:24:26.310 – 01:24:29.280] He probably retired or quit and got an honest job or something. [01:24:30.574 – 01:24:35.044] And, but that's where I found myself, was sitting in a maximum custody penitentiary. [01:24:35.044 – 01:24:45.264] And, and, uh, and when the fog lifted, you, you know what I mean, when my mind cleared, and I started to see with some clarity what my life was about,

[01:24:45.264 – 01:24:46.844] it was a bad-looking deal. [01:24:46.844 – 01:24:55.514] Any way I looked at it, my history was so, so bad that there was nothing really worth dragging forward. [01:24:55.514 – 01:25:04.944] In the first 24 years of my life, and this is God's truth, I could not think of one thing I had ever done to satisfaction, to completion, that I could be proud of. [01:25:04.944 – 01:25:05.744] And I mean nothing. [01:25:05.744 – 01:25:08.704] I never held a job for as much as a year. [01:25:08.704 – 01:25:12.804] I never wanted to hold one much more than that either, except the, the Army.

[01:25:12.804 – 01:25:16.224] I held that one longer than that, but I didn't want to. [01:25:16.224 – 01:25:18.403] I, I, I tried to quit the first day. [01:25:18.403 – 01:25:20.424] But they're hard to quit on. [01:25:20.424 – 01:25:25.324] They, they, every- Every time I'd quit and leave, they'd come get me and put me in jail. [01:25:25.324 – 01:25:30.464] And so they finally got quit tired of doing that and fired me from, from the Army. [01:25:30.464 – 01:25:34.404] They didn't call it that, but I got an undesirable discharge, 20 years old. [01:25:34.404 – 01:25:37.504] In the course of that military career, like…

[01:25:37.504 – 01:25:38.164] Where is Al? [01:25:38.164 – 01:25:39.984] Where's Adak Al? [01:25:39.984 – 01:25:42.364] Naturally, on the back row. [01:25:42.364 – 01:25:44.104] The, almost on the back row. [01:25:44.104 – 01:25:51.044] My friends, I, I wanted him to make himself known because I want you to know who this man is. [01:25:51.044 – 01:25:53.523] He's dangerous, is what he is. [01:25:53.523 – 01:26:01.804] I call him Adak Al because that's where he grew up, in Adak, in the Aleutian Islands. [01:26:01.804 – 01:26:04.544] It's even disowned by Alaska. [01:26:04.544 – 01:26:06.784] The darn thing's out in the middle of the Bering Sea. [01:26:06.784 – 01:26:08.024] He grew up there.

[01:26:08.024 – 01:26:13.604] You don't want to get too cozy with a guy who grew up on Adak. [01:26:13.604 – 01:26:17.984] He's, uh, he's done fairly well in spite of it. [01:26:17.984 – 01:26:20.744] But that's where I developed my alcoholism. [01:26:20.744 – 01:26:27.104] That's where I really crossed that line and moved into full-blooded, bonafide alcoholism, was in Adak. [01:26:27.104 – 01:26:35.284] I don't remember exactly the day it occurred, but they had a, a, a very nice cocktail lounge there called The Hanging Hook. [01:26:35.284 – 01:26:38.344] I don't know who named it that, but it fit somehow.

[01:26:38.344 – 01:26:48.404] And, and I crossed that line, didn't pay any attention to it, 'cause I'm sure I was quite drunk at the time and didn't notice little subtle things like crossing [01:26:48.404 – 01:26:48.884] lines. [01:26:48.884 – 01:26:58.904] But when I got sober and looked back and started to, to sort of rethink that trail, yeah, I could see that along in that period when I was 18 years old is where I [01:26:58.904 – 01:27:02.724] crossed that line, on Adak in the Aleutian Islands. [01:27:02.724 – 01:27:06.744] And, and, uh, and then, you know, it just, uh, but that was the only job I held.

[01:27:06.744 – 01:27:09.904] I held that one for, for, uh, 38 months. [01:27:09.904 – 01:27:15.584] But there was– When I looked at that career, I saw a career that was characterized by nothing but failure. [01:27:15.584 – 01:27:20.304] Never had a promotion in my life, nor a pay raise, unless they raised the minimum wage. [01:27:20.304 – 01:27:24.564] And, uh- So it was not a real, real storybook kind of a deal. [01:27:24.564 – 01:27:27.084] I was like many alcoholics. [01:27:27.084 – 01:27:28.724] I was some of you. [01:27:28.724 – 01:27:31.464] We get beaten to death with that word potential, you know?

[01:27:31.464 – 01:27:37.104] That we hear it all the time about, you know, "You got so much potential if you just get your act together." Heard that all my life. [01:27:37.104 – 01:27:43.684] And I, I actually found that it was true too, but, uh, but it didn't come to fruition until I got sober. [01:27:43.684 – 01:27:53.164] But I, I, I was the type of guy who, if I was sober for some brief period, and that's all they ever were, I w- I really looked like a world beater very quickly.

[01:27:53.164 – 01:27:58.564] And I would get routinely overrated by anybody who would rate me. [01:27:58.564 – 01:28:07.204] If I was sober, I'd go looking for a job, I'd get hired for a better job than I was looking for, and then would work my way down and out. [01:28:07.204 – 01:28:07.774] You know? [01:28:07.774 – 01:28:09.844] And that was my career. [01:28:09.844 – 01:28:13.564] But it was just that kind of a thing of the book describes it well. [01:28:13.564 – 01:28:20.764] You, I, I, I had that uncanny ability to win confidence, to make a good appearance, to make a good start.

[01:28:20.764 – 01:28:25.484] But I had that fatal flaw that if I took a drink, it was all over. [01:28:25.484 – 01:28:27.624] And no matter how good the opportunity, it was done. [01:28:27.624 – 01:28:28.984] So that's what I looked at. [01:28:28.984 – 01:28:33.784] And so if you just charted it on that, it would look like an exercise in dismal failure. [01:28:33.784 – 01:28:37.424] There wasn't a person in the first 24 years of my life… [01:28:37.424 – 01:28:40.384] And, and this is not melodrama, this is a fact. [01:28:40.384 – 01:28:49.404] Not a single person that was intimately associated with me that, that either didn't or shouldn't have regretted it.

[01:28:49.404 – 01:28:57.563] Not a single one that didn't get used, abused, misused, mistreated, lied to, disappointed, scared, you know, name it. [01:28:57.563 – 01:28:59.284] Everybody. [01:28:59.284 – 01:29:02.904] If anybody got close to me for very long, they got dirty in the process. [01:29:02.904 – 01:29:06.964] And so that was the legacy that I had, the legacy of a loser. [01:29:06.964 – 01:29:11.964] And, and so 24 years later, I'm sitting in a, in, in a maximum custody penitentiary. [01:29:11.964 – 01:29:19.644] And what I had done was just very rapidly, I was one of those guys that just, just took off like a runaway train, you know?

[01:29:19.644 – 01:29:21.824] It, when, my mine was not a subtle process. [01:29:21.824 – 01:29:25.844] I, it was a real crash ahead, kind of a wild and crazy pattern. [01:29:25.844 – 01:29:28.564] Uh, but my life was just straight down the tube. [01:29:28.564 – 01:29:33.204] I wound up living up in the, uh, in the state of Michigan, in, in Flint. [01:29:33.204 – 01:29:34.104] Flint, Michigan. [01:29:34.104 – 01:29:41.184] And, and what brought me into the penitentiary, I'd always been a guy that got in a lot of trouble, but mine was more nuisance level trouble. [01:29:41.184 – 01:29:47.894] You know, I'd, I'd never been anything but just local jails or county jails or pea farms or s- stockades in the military.

[01:29:47.894 – 01:29:50.044] I'd never been in serious trouble. [01:29:50.044 – 01:30:00.244] But in Flint, everything just sort of went downhill, and I wound up, the last two years that I lived in that city, I used to say that I lived by my [01:30:00.244 – 01:30:02.964] wits, but that's a little euphemistic for the way I lived. [01:30:02.964 – 01:30:10.684] Uh, I lived the way people live when they, when they're basically surviving on their instincts and, um, um… [01:30:10.684 – 01:30:14.104] I, I think I was what you'd call an amoral person. [01:30:14.104 – 01:30:17.383] I w- I was just somebody who didn't have any real sense of right or wrong.

[01:30:17.383 – 01:30:21.504] I wasn't a predatory criminal, you know, who would plot crimes and do stuff like that. [01:30:21.504 – 01:30:23.944] I was just somebody who lived in a jungle. [01:30:23.944 – 01:30:27.944] When you live in a jungle, you live by the laws of the jungle or you don't live. [01:30:27.944 – 01:30:29.184] That's just as simple as that. [01:30:29.184 – 01:30:35.100] And the way that I lived then, I don't r- to this day, I don't, I don't categorize it as, as criminal behavior. [01:30:35.100 – 01:30:37.920] It was just the way the society worked.

[01:30:37.920 – 01:30:46.660] And people who lived in that society accepted it as just an occupational hazard of being there, that in that society you're either gonna get robbed or you're gonna rob somebody else. [01:30:46.660 – 01:30:48.840] I mean, it's just the way things work. [01:30:48.840 – 01:30:51.140] You're either the rolee or the roller. [01:30:51.140 – 01:30:54.000] And so, but it's gonna happen. [01:30:54.000 – 01:30:56.320] And so, that was where I wound up living. [01:30:56.320 – 01:31:04.880] And, and what finally brought me to a stop was I u- I always knew I was the kind of guy that was capable of anything.

[01:31:04.880 – 01:31:11.260] But I, I never, just like anybody, I never really believed I would do anything horrible that couldn't be undone, just like anybody else. [01:31:11.260 – 01:31:14.720] And, uh, I knew that I was capable. [01:31:14.720 – 01:31:23.440] I, I, God knows how many times, and I'm sure that at least half this room, if not three-fourths of this room, had exactly the same experie- uh, experience. [01:31:23.440 – 01:31:28.880] That if you've had blackouts, you know that feeling of waking up in total panic. [01:31:28.880 – 01:31:38.880] It's the most scary thing in all of alcoholism to wake up in that frantic p- p- position of trying to f- put it together.

[01:31:38.880 – 01:31:39.760] Where am I? [01:31:39.760 – 01:31:41.360] How did I get here? [01:31:41.360 – 01:31:42.600] What have I done? [01:31:42.600 – 01:31:43.780] You know, on and on. [01:31:43.780 – 01:31:45.540] And, and I'd done that hundreds of times. [01:31:45.540 – 01:31:53.680] And, and, and, uh, uh, uh, until that day, every time I'd take a look and I'd see that there's no major damage, and go out and do it again. [01:31:53.680 – 01:31:57.780] Just the average alcoholic and, who goes through that kind of stuff. [01:31:57.780 – 01:31:59.520] But one morning, I woke up in Flint. [01:31:59.520 – 01:32:00.320] I was in jail. [01:32:00.320 – 01:32:01.860] And no novelty there.

[01:32:01.860 – 01:32:07.340] I thought it was for the same as always, just some sort of nuisance behavior or, or lightweight stuff, you know. [01:32:07.340 – 01:32:14.140] And wake a little while, jailer came by, and I said, "When can I get out?" He said, "I hope never," walked off. [01:32:14.140 – 01:32:17.180] And I had no clue what he was talking about, but I knew he was very serious. [01:32:17.180 – 01:32:20.240] And, uh, he didn't say any more. [01:32:20.240 – 01:32:30.510] Uh, but I walked back into the s- the s- the cell area, and one of, one, one of the guys in there told me that, that apparently had read the paper that the night before somebody, and he assumed

[01:32:30.510 – 01:32:37.720] me, had been driving blind drunk down the main street of that city and run down and killed two people who were trying to cross the street. [01:32:37.720 – 01:32:47.960] And, and, and when that was delivered to me, my reaction was not so much, "No, I wouldn't do it," it was just I couldn't [01:32:47.960 – 01:32:48.600] handle it. [01:32:48.600 – 01:32:49.660] I couldn't accept it. [01:32:49.660 – 01:32:50.320] Y- you know what I mean? [01:32:50.320 – 01:32:54.660] You know, there's some stuff that's just too heavy for a mind to accommodate. [01:32:54.660 – 01:33:02.280] And so, my first reaction was just to push it away and say, "No, that couldn't be." And, uh, and then gradually accepted the truth.

[01:33:02.280 – 01:33:07.880] I ha- I had done more damage than, than any drunk ever ought to be allowed to do. [01:33:07.880 – 01:33:18.220] Yeah, I d- I did, had, had caused the end of the lives of two fine young people whose only mistake was trying to cross the road where I was stupid enough to be driving [01:33:18.220 – 01:33:19.680] blacked out drunk. [01:33:19.680 – 01:33:25.040] And, uh, and so, when that started to come home to me, that's… [01:33:25.040 – 01:33:29.560] I mean, I've never, even though I was a bad drunk, I was not an insensitive person.

[01:33:29.560 – 01:33:35.300] I was not somebody who was uncaring or unfeeling about human life or, or d- or harm to people. [01:33:35.300 – 01:33:36.920] Most of us really aren't. [01:33:36.920 – 01:33:41.060] We might do some harm, but most of us really aren't malicious kind of, uh, people. [01:33:41.060 – 01:33:42.800] And, and I certainly wasn't. [01:33:42.800 – 01:33:50.280] And, and, and, and when I had to, to accept the fact that I had done damage like that, it, it was truly more than I could deal with. [01:33:50.280 – 01:33:56.680] I was so full of guilt and shame and, and remorse that I was, I was ashamed to be breathing.

[01:33:56.680 – 01:34:00.140] And, uh, only time I'd ever been in jail, I didn't try to get out. [01:34:00.140 – 01:34:00.960] I didn't want out. [01:34:00.960 – 01:34:02.160] I was afraid to get out. [01:34:02.160 – 01:34:03.260] I was ashamed to get out. [01:34:03.260 – 01:34:09.160] I couldn't even, couldn't even bear the thought of looking at decent people. [01:34:09.160 – 01:34:10.750] And, and so, I just wanted to stay in there. [01:34:10.750 – 01:34:11.640] I never tried to get out. [01:34:11.640 – 01:34:13.360] It's the only time I'd ever been in jail I didn't try to get out. [01:34:13.360 – 01:34:13.820] I didn't. [01:34:13.820 – 01:34:23.920] And then somebody learned that I had family in North Carolina and kind, uh, a policeman, uh, that, that worked there, I don't know who he was, but learned that I had family and contacted my folks,

[01:34:23.920 – 01:34:26.760] and they, uh, they did what families often do, eh? [01:34:26.760 – 01:34:34.200] What, what Al-Anon's, who t- turn out to be Al-Anon's, uh, often do, is, is go pull him, pull him out of it one more time. [01:34:34.200 – 01:34:35.720] And that's what my family did. [01:34:35.720 – 01:34:36.860] I had a mother and sister. [01:34:36.860 – 01:34:43.500] They came up, did a lot of stuff they couldn't afford, got an attorney, got me released on bond. [01:34:43.500 – 01:34:47.930] I didn't know how to tell them that I didn't want to get out of jail, that I was afraid to get out, I was ashamed to get out.

[01:34:47.930 – 01:34:49.100] I didn't know how to say that. [01:34:49.100 – 01:34:51.020] And so, they got me released. [01:34:51.020 – 01:34:54.320] I was released on bond on the 17th of July of '56. [01:34:54.320 – 01:35:02.960] And even though I had been thrown out of the military for alcoholism, had been described by the, by everybody who'd ever captured me as alco- [01:35:03.090 – 01:35:05.010] Like, never meant a thing to me. [01:35:05.010 – 01:35:06.190] I never believed that. [01:35:06.190 – 01:35:10.710] I never even entertained, seriously entertained the notion that I might be. [01:35:10.710 – 01:35:16.470] I really thought I was a guy who, like people told me, had a lot of potential, and one of these days I'm gonna get my act together.

[01:35:16.470 – 01:35:19.449] That's really what I believed while I'm going right down the tube. [01:35:19.449 – 01:35:29.670] And, and so w- they, uh, when, when I walked out of that, out of that jail, I knew that I wouldn't drink, not [01:35:29.670 – 01:35:31.990] because that I thought I had alcoholism. [01:35:31.990 – 01:35:33.770] That, that did, was not even in the picture. [01:35:33.770 – 01:35:40.310] It was just the thought that how could you possibly drink after something that horrible? [01:35:40.310 – 01:35:41.250] How could you do it? [01:35:41.250 – 01:35:48.930] If you understand alcoholism like most of us do, the better question is, how would you not drink after something like that?

[01:35:48.930 – 01:35:49.730] But I didn't know that. [01:35:49.730 – 01:35:50.590] I didn't know anything about it. [01:35:50.590 – 01:35:59.550] All I knew was that I walked the streets all day the first day, all night till about noon the next day, and then I started to drink, of course. [01:35:59.550 – 01:36:08.349] And from July 18th of '56 till the 19th of November was actually the date of my last drink, what I hope was and pray was my last drink. [01:36:08.349 – 01:36:16.970] I s- I did my best to do one of two things, either to drink myself into oblivion or to drink myself to death.

[01:36:16.970 – 01:36:20.750] I, I worked with God knows how many thousands of alcoholics. [01:36:20.750 – 01:36:24.550] Many alcoholics say that they didn't commit suicide because of fear. [01:36:24.550 – 01:36:25.270] It may be true. [01:36:25.270 – 01:36:27.430] That was not even a factor with me. [01:36:27.430 – 01:36:38.010] The only thing that kept me from just overtly taking my own life was that I, I just couldn't stand the thought of putting another burden on a family [01:36:38.010 – 01:36:40.590] to spend their lives wondering if there's something they could have done. [01:36:40.590 – 01:36:45.480] So I guess in my twisted logic, I thought, well, if I'm just found dead of an overdose…

[01:36:45.480 – 01:36:51.290] I didn't really rationally think it out loud, but I'm sure that's what was on my mind, that there'll at least be a question. [01:36:51.290 – 01:36:57.710] And then I was tried and sentenced to a, to a, a sentence of five to 15 years in, in, in the Michigan State Penitentiary. [01:36:57.710 – 01:37:08.150] And, and that's what put me where I was sitting, 'cause I'm, I'm sentenced and, and, and if I would had been the judge, I would have probably [01:37:08.150 – 01:37:08.910] given me more.

[01:37:08.910 – 01:37:11.930] And I remember the day that, that, that… [01:37:11.930 – 01:37:13.610] Clearly, I don't, I'll never forget it. [01:37:13.610 – 01:37:18.309] The day that, the moment that that sentence was passed, was found guilty, I knew that. [01:37:18.309 – 01:37:19.750] I mean, that, there's no question. [01:37:19.750 – 01:37:25.870] And then s- given that sentence, I had an instinctive reaction, a very natural human reaction of fear. [01:37:25.870 – 01:37:30.510] But it's simultaneously the most real sense of relief I'd ever known because I knew it was over. [01:37:30.510 – 01:37:31.550] It was over. [01:37:31.550 – 01:37:36.270] And I'm not talking about happy ending or there'll be help down there or something like that.

[01:37:36.270 – 01:37:38.790] I'm thinking it's done. [01:37:38.790 – 01:37:39.690] It is done. [01:37:39.690 – 01:37:47.110] And the next day, when I walked into that institution, I had the clear thought in my mind, well, oh, boy, you won't hurt anybody else. [01:37:47.110 – 01:37:49.610] And that was a frame of mind. [01:37:49.610 – 01:37:55.350] And so I went into that sen- s- in that system as, as, as totally isolated as a guy could be. [01:37:55.350 – 01:37:57.710] Uh, I didn't communicate with anybody. [01:37:57.710 – 01:37:59.030] I wasn't mad at anybody. [01:37:59.030 – 01:38:01.410] I just was totally shut down. [01:38:01.410 – 01:38:02.410] They put me in a cell.

[01:38:02.410 – 01:38:08.990] I didn't know who was in the cell on either side, and it wasn't they didn't have any concern, they just didn't exist. [01:38:08.990 – 01:38:19.050] I lived in my own cocoon of, of, of guilt, shame, and misery, and, and I'm absolutely convinced that I would have never come out [01:38:19.050 – 01:38:21.430] of that posture on my own volition. [01:38:21.430 – 01:38:28.790] If somebody hadn't do- done something to, to intervene, you know, like so often have. [01:38:28.790 – 01:38:31.550] I keep pointing to her because she's a 41-year Al-Anon member.

[01:38:31.550 – 01:38:39.690] But if somebody hadn't done something to step in and take an appropriate action, I would have nev– My prediction would have come true. [01:38:39.690 – 01:38:41.190] I would have never come out of there alive. [01:38:41.190 – 01:38:42.270] I'd have come out toes up. [01:38:42.270 – 01:38:48.190] Because it wasn't that I was resistant or just didn't want to do anything. [01:38:48.190 – 01:38:50.670] I just didn't engage in life anymore. [01:38:50.670 – 01:38:52.230] There's no way. [01:38:52.230 – 01:38:57.850] I was so full of guilt and shame, I couldn't have asked for a drink of water, never mind help.

[01:38:57.850 – 01:39:00.630] Uh, that would have been a totally foreign language to me. [01:39:00.630 – 01:39:05.250] And that's one of the reasons that there are a lot of things that stimulate a service ethic. [01:39:05.250 – 01:39:09.650] You know, one of them is where it happened for you. [01:39:09.650 – 01:39:10.510] Yeah. [01:39:10.510 – 01:39:17.170] You know, I guarantee you, if you think a second right now to what kick-started your recovery, you know, where, where did it happen? [01:39:17.170 – 01:39:18.010] What were the events? [01:39:18.010 – 01:39:22.170] And whatever they were, I guarantee you, you'll have a loyalty to that second to none.

[01:39:22.170 – 01:39:26.010] Wherever that new life starts, you're gonna feel very strongly about that. [01:39:26.010 – 01:39:32.010] And so what happened to me that, that turned me in a different direction, I wasn't looking for anything except oblivion. [01:39:32.010 – 01:39:42.110] And, and a guy called me out for an interview one day, did a standard kind of a social worker type interview, got through with it, made the same startling diagnosis that everybody who'd [01:39:42.110 – 01:39:44.150] ever talked to me made. [01:39:44.150 – 01:39:47.510] And it was always something like, "My God, you drink a lot.

[01:39:47.510 – 01:39:48.490] You're a problem drinker. [01:39:48.490 – 01:39:49.390] You're an alcoholic. [01:39:49.390 – 01:39:51.150] You're a drunk." You know, I'd heard that. [01:39:51.150 – 01:39:51.950] I'd heard that. [01:39:51.950 – 01:39:59.810] And, and fr- and, and before that guy, it always went on to something like, "Why don't you quit drinking?" And that never made sense to me. [01:39:59.810 – 01:40:03.430] I, I mean, if you don't have a drinking problem, why would you quit drinking? [01:40:03.430 – 01:40:05.690] It was the only real relaxation, fun. [01:40:05.690 – 01:40:14.350] I tell you this, alcohol was the, the, was the, the finest, cheapest, most reliable solution I ever found in my life.

[01:40:14.350 – 01:40:16.690] Man, that thing never let me down. [01:40:16.690 – 01:40:24.130] You know, I hear people in AA say, "It quit working for me." I swear to God, that's the saddest thing I've ever heard. [01:40:24.130 – 01:40:27.530] It never quit working. [01:40:27.530 – 01:40:28.370] I mean, it worked. [01:40:28.370 – 01:40:29.950] It just worked too much. [01:40:29.950 – 01:40:33.130] It just worked overtime and beat me to a pulp. [01:40:33.130 – 01:40:35.290] But I guarantee you, I'm going for it. [01:40:35.290 – 01:40:39.150] I didn't ever say, "Well, that's enough for me." I, I never even thought things like that. [01:40:39.150 – 01:40:45.670] And, and so what happened, this guy got through with his, and he said a little something different.

[01:40:45.670 – 01:40:51.710] He said, "Man, you've had a lot of trouble with booze." And I said, "Yeah." I mean, that was obvious. [01:40:51.710 – 01:40:53.250] My God, my record's that thick. [01:40:53.250 – 01:40:53.860] It's all about it. [01:40:53.860 – 01:40:56.350] I've never been in trouble in my life that I wasn't drunk. [01:40:56.350 – 01:40:57.390] I mean, never. [01:40:57.390 – 01:41:00.169] And, uh, so naturally, I've had a lot of trouble. [01:41:00.169 – 01:41:03.870] And, uh, then he said something I'd never heard. [01:41:03.870 – 01:41:07.778] And it's what, part of what gives me a commitment to the area of service. [01:41:07.778 – 01:41:10.698] We call it CPC, Cooperative Professional Community.

[01:41:10.698 – 01:41:17.738] And this, somebody had informed this guy that when you see an alcoholic with a history like that, tell him he ought to go to AA. [01:41:17.738 – 01:41:20.378] Well, that's exactly what he did. [01:41:20.378 – 01:41:21.997] Now, that's not rocket science. [01:41:21.997 – 01:41:28.298] But I mean, my God, a third-grade kid could've looked at that history and said, "This man ought not to drink," you know? [01:41:28.298 – 01:41:30.958] And so that's what he said. [01:41:30.958 – 01:41:39.778] "You've had a lot of trouble with booze." And I said, "Yeah." And he said, "We have an AA group here, and I think you ought to go." Now, that was the end of it.

[01:41:39.778 – 01:41:47.898] There was no real histrionics or drama or coercion or, you know, torture, or if you don't go we're gonna keep you here for the rest of your life. [01:41:47.898 – 01:41:48.998] Uh, none of that. [01:41:48.998 – 01:41:52.618] I mean, we hadn't invented all that coercive methods- … [01:41:52.618 – 01:41:53.378] at, at that time. [01:41:53.378 – 01:41:55.917] And so we were still kind of fumbling. [01:41:55.917 – 01:41:58.558] And so, and he just said that. [01:41:58.558 – 01:42:05.298] And then a few days later I got a, it wasn't a letter, just a little strip of paper an inch or two wide, and it said…

[01:42:05.298 – 01:42:12.578] Y- in that, in, in that penitentiary there were 6,000 men, over, over 6,000 men locked up behind one wall. [01:42:12.578 – 01:42:15.437] And they were real nice citizens. [01:42:15.437 – 01:42:20.898] They were basically out of Detroit and Flint and, uh, oh, God, on and on. [01:42:20.898 – 01:42:23.378] You know, it w- it was, it was not Disneyland. [01:42:23.378 – 01:42:24.338] I'll just put it that way. [01:42:24.338 – 01:42:32.018] And, uh, so everything with 6,000 people, you can imagine, everything's crowded. [01:42:32.018 – 01:42:34.258] It's kind of like trying to find a meat place. [01:42:34.258 – 01:42:34.858] You know?

[01:42:34.858 – 01:42:36.198] 6,000 people. [01:42:36.198 – 01:42:38.918] The AA group had a cap of 300. [01:42:38.918 – 01:42:45.518] And, and so you had to, I didn't know it then, but you had to have a seat open before you could get cleared to go, 'cause you know where to go. [01:42:45.518 – 01:42:53.578] And so I guess the chair came open, and he said, "You can go to your first meeting February 2nd of '57." I, I didn't want to go to AA. [01:42:53.578 – 01:42:55.408] I didn't not want to go. [01:42:55.408 – 01:42:56.398] I didn't even know what it was.

[01:42:56.398 – 01:42:58.458] I had never heard of AA. [01:42:58.458 – 01:43:00.118] Talk about history. [01:43:00.118 – 01:43:05.668] My God, uh, I won't go into it there since we're gonna spend part of the weekend talking about it. [01:43:05.668 – 01:43:09.158] But I, I'll tell you this much about history. [01:43:09.158 – 01:43:14.097] Here, I'm a guy who was diagnosed alcoholic by everybody who ever looked at me. [01:43:14.097 – 01:43:18.858] Not a single person ever recommended anything to do. [01:43:18.858 – 01:43:22.738] They couldn't have recommended detox 'cause there weren't any. [01:43:22.738 – 01:43:25.698] Unless you wanna call jail detox. [01:43:25.698 – 01:43:33.298] They're very effective and, and really f- pretty economical to, to, to- They do the job.

[01:43:33.298 – 01:43:36.058] Particularly if they hit you upside the head with a blackjack. [01:43:36.058 – 01:43:38.178] Very, very effective stuff. [01:43:38.178 – 01:43:44.218] Yeah, but there was no tr- there's no such thing as treatment, you know, or EA- EPA, uh, EAP. [01:43:44.218 – 01:43:48.878] There was no– Well, I wasn't employed anyway, so you, wouldn't, that wouldn't have done any good. [01:43:48.878 – 01:43:52.727] But I mean, there was just nothing in the way of interventions, you know. [01:43:52.727 – 01:43:54.458] I had never heard of AA. [01:43:54.458 – 01:43:57.058] And they didn't talk about it where I drank.

[01:43:57.058 – 01:43:59.998] If they did, I didn't hear them, my gosh. [01:43:59.998 – 01:44:01.998] But I just was totally ignorant of it. [01:44:01.998 – 01:44:04.918] And so it wasn't that I had any resistance. [01:44:04.918 – 01:44:06.998] That was just like saying, "Do you wanna go to [01:45:36.897 – 01:45:37.277] on the door. [01:45:37.277 – 01:45:38.937] Read my name, Ivester. [01:45:38.937 – 01:45:42.947] I said, "Yes, sir." He said, "Sit down, man." So I sat down in the middle of that 300. [01:45:42.947 – 01:45:44.517] Had no clue what they were gonna do. [01:45:44.517 – 01:45:50.157] And, uh, then they da- just like we do at about every meeting, they, they, they ran off with it.

[01:45:50.157 – 01:45:53.197] And, uh, uh, did the, the praying. [01:45:53.197 – 01:45:59.796] Uh, a- and I knew as soon as they started praying this is gonna be some holy roller stuff, and I, I had really no interest in that. [01:45:59.796 – 01:46:05.977] And then they did the readings like we did, did, uh, we, we didn't have everything recorded that nicely like it did here tonight. [01:46:05.977 – 01:46:07.507] But it did the readings. [01:46:07.507 – 01:46:08.377] That looked churchy. [01:46:08.377 – 01:46:18.397] Then they introduced the speaker, and I listened to the first alcoholic I'd ever heard tell his story, and I thought that was the most bizarre thing I had ever seen

[01:46:18.397 – 01:46:19.097] in my life. [01:46:19.097 – 01:46:24.157] I thought, "What on earth…?" I mean, he wasn't a bad-looking guy from a distance. [01:46:24.157 – 01:46:31.797] And, uh, he, he ha- had on that obligatory blue preaching suit, and he preached away. [01:46:31.797 – 01:46:41.857] And I, I, I thought, "My God, why is he doing that?" I mean, why would a decent-looking man come in here on a Saturday afternoon and, and bare his soul, strip [01:46:41.857 – 01:46:44.137] naked to 300 hairy-legged convicts? [01:46:44.137 – 01:46:46.817] That made no sense to me whatsoever. [01:46:46.817 – 01:46:54.037] I'll assure you that I was far away from any brother's keeper ethic, you know, or that it helps me to help you.

[01:46:54.037 – 01:46:54.597] Yeah, right. [01:46:54.597 – 01:46:58.757] That would be welcome news on the street, I promise you. [01:46:58.757 – 01:47:00.657] So that was a foreign language to me. [01:47:00.657 – 01:47:02.277] And I sat there and listened to that man. [01:47:02.277 – 01:47:04.097] I thought he was a total fool. [01:47:04.097 – 01:47:05.117] I, I really did. [01:47:05.117 – 01:47:07.597] I, I, uh, there's gotta be something wrong with a guy doing this. [01:47:07.597 – 01:47:11.717] You know, it, it could've been a geek from a circus biting a chicken's head off. [01:47:11.717 – 01:47:14.037] It, it wouldn't have startled me any more. [01:47:14.037 – 01:47:15.987] I- …

[01:47:15.987 – 01:47:20.257] I didn't identify with one syllable of one word that that guy said. [01:47:20.257 – 01:47:21.027] I mean, nothing. [01:47:21.027 – 01:47:25.537] And, uh, I left more confused than I came in. [01:47:25.537 – 01:47:29.177] And, uh, the next week I was back. [01:47:29.177 – 01:47:32.877] I could not have explained to anybody why I was back. [01:47:32.877 – 01:47:33.737] Nobody cared. [01:47:33.737 – 01:47:43.037] You know, if I hadn't come back, or Ge- or Jeffrey said, they wouldn't have said, "Where's that nice fellow that was sitting there last week?" I mean, they couldn't have cared less.

[01:47:43.037 – 01:47:45.557] They've got 300 guys, they got their own troubles. [01:47:45.557 – 01:47:48.077] They're not worried about this rat up here. [01:47:48.077 – 01:47:50.097] And, and so, and I wouldn't have cared. [01:47:50.097 – 01:47:52.117] I wouldn't have even known what I was missing. [01:47:52.117 – 01:47:57.017] But what brought me back to my second meeting was the spirit of that guy. [01:47:57.017 – 01:47:58.397] His name was Shy Walker. [01:47:58.397 – 01:48:04.027] He became my first sponsor about a, a year later, and I loved him better than Peter loved the Lord. [01:48:04.027 – 01:48:09.597] But I had to learn that he was not totally insane before I could get to that level with him, I admit.

[01:48:09.597 – 01:48:16.037] But he was, without question, the most enthusiastic person I have ever seen. [01:48:16.037 – 01:48:18.097] That man was a dynamo. [01:48:18.097 – 01:48:22.397] My God, he just absolutely just consumed with, with, with, with stuff. [01:48:22.397 – 01:48:29.157] And, um, I know, I, well, I know one time I told, I'll just tell you this real quick, and I gotta get you out of jail, 'cause what time do we quit? [01:48:29.157 – 01:48:29.597] 8:30? [01:48:29.597 – 01:48:30.237] 9:30? [01:48:30.237 – 01:48:31.777] Something. [01:48:31.777 – 01:48:32.417] We'll quit here. [01:48:32.417 – 01:48:40.377] I, I tell you, I've got a, I've got my own formula for quitting, is, uh, I always wanna quit about two minutes before you do.

[01:48:40.377 – 01:48:42.457] And you… [01:48:42.457 – 01:48:44.877] I mean, there's no announcement about stuff like that. [01:48:44.877 – 01:48:49.837] But if you, if you do much of this stuff, you can tell when a crowd quits. [01:48:49.837 – 01:48:51.857] I mean, they don't do anything. [01:48:51.857 – 01:48:58.177] They still sit there just like statues, but it looks like a, just kind of a film drops over their eyes. [01:48:58.177 – 01:49:01.417] And it, it just, it just kinda glaze over. [01:49:01.417 – 01:49:04.897] Well, you can talk all you want to after that, but you're done. [01:49:04.897 – 01:49:05.877] I mean, it's over.

[01:49:05.877 – 01:49:10.617] I can't s- So I, I always like to sneak about two minutes ahead of that. [01:49:10.617 – 01:49:12.417] It's, I, I promise you I'll do at least that. [01:49:12.417 – 01:49:17.817] But that, uh, yeah, that, that was a, that was a starting point. [01:49:17.817 – 01:49:18.987] You know, it, it… [01:49:18.987 – 01:49:23.537] And I, I'm so grateful for that, for that enthusiasm and, and how much it meant to me. [01:49:23.537 – 01:49:26.057] I, I think it's a powerful healing force. [01:49:26.057 – 01:49:27.297] I truly do. [01:49:27.297 – 01:49:31.937] And after I really got to know him and he started to sponsor me, one day I tried to thank him.

[01:49:31.937 – 01:49:33.937] I tried to thank him for it. [01:49:33.937 – 01:49:37.677] And he listened just long enough to catch on to what I was saying. [01:49:37.677 – 01:49:39.277] And he said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. [01:49:39.277 – 01:49:39.797] Wait a minute. [01:49:39.797 – 01:49:40.997] Wait a minute. [01:49:40.997 – 01:49:42.737] Man, we…" And he, he didn't talk nice. [01:49:42.737 – 01:49:49.607] I mean, he, he, he didn't swear, beat on me, anything like that, but he just was a gruff, old, inner city Detroit guy. [01:49:49.607 – 01:49:51.797] And, uh, he said, "Wait a minute. [01:49:51.797 – 01:49:52.477] Wait a minute, man. [01:49:52.477 – 01:49:57.196] We don't do that." And he said, he said, "Let me tell you something, Tom.

[01:49:57.196 – 01:49:58.497] I want you to always remember this. [01:49:58.497 – 01:50:06.137] You will never be able to repay or f- or adequately thank somebody for anything they do for you in AA. [01:50:06.137 – 01:50:08.077] That's not the way it works. [01:50:08.077 – 01:50:12.057] If you appreciate it, do it for the next guy. [01:50:12.057 – 01:50:13.397] That's the way this works. [01:50:13.397 – 01:50:15.937] Don't waste time in here telling me how wonderful I am. [01:50:15.937 – 01:50:19.077] Get out there and help somebody else." And that's exactly what it is. [01:50:19.077 – 01:50:22.517] Gratitude is not backward reflection. [01:50:22.517 – 01:50:25.437] Gratitude is expressed forward.

[01:50:25.437 – 01:50:32.237] It's expressed by what I do, by what I give, you know, not how, just how much I reflect on how fortunate I am. [01:50:32.237 – 01:50:35.077] And so anyway, that, that was the, the impact that fellow had on me. [01:50:35.077 – 01:50:38.457] And, and, uh, now I didn't know what I was attracted back to. [01:50:38.457 – 01:50:39.177] I was clueless. [01:50:39.177 – 01:50:43.977] I, I was, I was as totally out of place in AA as any place I have ever been. [01:50:43.977 – 01:50:46.177] Really didn't feel like I belonged here.

[01:50:46.177 – 01:50:48.396] I thought, I knew I was too young. [01:50:48.396 – 01:50:50.617] I was the youngest guy in that whole prison. [01:50:50.617 – 01:50:56.437] They normally didn't keep guys my age in there, but my history just told them that I'd might need a little supervision. [01:50:56.437 – 01:50:59.277] And, uh, so they kept, they kept me in max. [01:50:59.277 – 01:51:02.097] I mean, I was a pretty d- a, a pretty good citizen in there. [01:51:02.097 – 01:51:05.317] But, uh, they kept me in maximum custody the whole time. [01:51:05.317 – 01:51:07.677] Uh, you know, I'd think I was Charles Manson or somebody.

[01:51:07.677 – 01:51:17.697] And, and, and so I, I d- I just, I g- I got going i- in, in that, in that kind of a thing and, but I was out of [01:51:17.697 – 01:51:18.117] place. [01:51:18.117 – 01:51:19.977] You know, I really felt like I was too young. [01:51:19.977 – 01:51:22.477] I, I f- I secretly felt like I was too smart. [01:51:22.477 – 01:51:29.117] Yeah, I always knew that I was a budding s- genius that just could, never did quite get his feet on the ground right. [01:51:29.117 – 01:51:30.777] But one, one of these days, look out.

[01:51:30.777 – 01:51:34.233] And and sure enough. [01:51:34.233 – 01:51:35.213] And, but that's what I thought. [01:51:35.213 – 01:51:38.353] I, I, uh, alcoholism was a totally foreign thing. [01:51:38.353 – 01:51:43.123] Uh, I came into AA just about the time the American Medical Association… [01:51:43.123 – 01:51:47.873] They never did declare it an illness like, like we popularly say sometime. [01:51:47.873 – 01:51:50.653] They kind of alluded to it as like an illness, yeah. [01:51:50.653 – 01:51:57.313] But it was enough to at least change a little bit that, that solid level of morality. [01:51:57.313 – 01:52:01.852] When I came into AA, everything, everybody believed it was a moral issue.

[01:52:01.852 – 01:52:03.812] I believed it was a moral issue. [01:52:03.812 – 01:52:11.313] Whenever people talk about illness or, or, or disease, I found that an awkward, almost embarrassing concept. [01:52:11.313 – 01:52:14.353] What on earth is a disease about getting drunk? [01:52:14.353 – 01:52:16.033] Uh, I mean, that made no sense to me. [01:52:16.033 – 01:52:18.193] And so I was a really lost turkey. [01:52:18.193 – 01:52:20.593] I was really fortunate in that I… [01:52:20.593 – 01:52:22.993] What I went into, and I'm a strong group man. [01:52:22.993 – 01:52:32.642] I, if you don't have to talk to me long to catch on, I am somebody who absolutely believes in the value of groups in the whole process of recovery.

[01:52:32.642 – 01:52:42.993] And I'm talking about a place where you belong and have a commitment and have a, a real bond of trust between a group of people, and not just a bunch of migrating strangers. [01:52:42.993 – 01:52:46.232] I, and so I'm, I'm a great believer, and that's what I got weaned in. [01:52:46.232 – 01:52:56.233] And, and the recovery group at Jackson, uh, it, it was in a maximum custody penitentiary, but it was as fine an AA group as I've ever seen in, in term-

[01:52:56.233 – 01:52:57.353] well, in any terms. [01:52:57.353 – 01:53:03.093] But particularly in how well it worked with young, with, uh, young members, with new people coming into the group. [01:53:03.093 – 01:53:10.453] And they'd take guys, spin them off, and, and, and back then, they didn't take people through the steps particularly or, or study books or things like. [01:53:10.453 – 01:53:13.473] We'd read Twelve and Twelve and, and chat about what that meant. [01:53:13.473 – 01:53:19.633] But they basically would pull guys off and explain what this program's about, and that was extremely helpful to me.

[01:53:19.633 – 01:53:23.133] I, I, they, they helped me to get some clarity about what this thing was. [01:53:23.133 – 01:53:32.853] And, and I'll just hit this real quick and, uh, not because it's not vital, but, but, but maybe because it is. [01:53:32.853 – 01:53:35.493] I, I was a guy that, like many people, I was just… [01:53:35.493 – 01:53:40.173] I had absolutely no spiritual life whatsoever, had no belief in anything, any power. [01:53:40.173 – 01:53:43.613] I had an absolute open rebellion against any idea like that. [01:53:43.613 – 01:53:53.853] I kind of fumbled my way through, uh, you know, like admitting I was alcoholic, but it was more like pleading guilty to it than, than conceding down deep

[01:53:53.853 – 01:53:55.993] that I was really in trouble with booze. [01:53:55.993 – 01:53:57.433] Uh, it was enough to keep me in here. [01:53:57.433 – 01:54:06.293] Found the God of logic, the God of regio- reason, and just that, that process of, you know, having the power in the group as my higher power for a while. [01:54:06.293 – 01:54:16.293] And then I came to a place that was an absolute turning point for me, and I don't like to overly aggrandize anything, any, but the, the truly significant turning point for me was, is, is in my

[01:54:16.293 – 01:54:17.893] First, Fourth Step. [01:54:17.893 – 01:54:19.253] Uh, I didn't intend to do it when I did. [01:54:19.253 – 01:54:20.313] I was nine months sober. [01:54:20.313 – 01:54:21.333] I'd always been a reader. [01:54:21.333 – 01:54:25.893] So I'd read the words, but the words and the actions are not necessarily the same thing. [01:54:25.893 – 01:54:35.913] And, and so a guy came to the m- uh, to the, to the meeting one day from outside, spoke for, for the whole meeting about nothing but inventory, how to do it, where to read it in the book, read part

[01:54:35.913 – 01:54:37.793] of it, talked about the criticality of writing it. [01:54:37.793 – 01:54:47.853] And when he got through, I said, "Well, I wanna do that." And I'd been sort of thinking about how such a nice fellow as me had gotten in such a mess, and I meant to write a little [01:54:47.853 – 01:54:52.053] story about how sad life was and what a victim of circumstances I was. [01:54:52.053 – 01:54:53.433] And I really wasn't that bad a guy. [01:54:53.433 – 01:54:58.173] That, that's what I meant to do, was write one that would have been highly publishable, I think.

[01:54:58.173 – 01:55:02.683] And, uh, but it's what I thought. [01:55:02.683 – 01:55:06.013] It's amazing what I can think of if I don't get it out in the open. [01:55:06.013 – 01:55:12.413] Sometimes I'll be telling somebody something, and all at once I'll just realize that doesn't make sense. [01:55:12.413 – 01:55:14.613] And I'll just quit. [01:55:14.613 – 01:55:18.413] But as long as it's up here, bet I get weird. [01:55:18.413 – 01:55:24.693] So what I did though, when that guy got through, I went in and I started to write. [01:55:24.693 – 01:55:34.813] I wrote two line, literally, I wrote two lines of that fantasy, and then all at once, call it what you will, it, it, it was not a clap

[01:55:34.813 – 01:55:40.633] of thunder or any resounding white light experience like, like, like, like Bill had with wind blowing. [01:55:40.633 – 01:55:48.793] W- It, it was, it was a defining moment in that I think I saw my life in clear focus for the first time. [01:55:48.793 – 01:55:56.793] My entire life had been nothing but an exercise in delusion and illusion, as our book talks about. [01:55:56.793 – 01:55:58.913] I never really had looked at myself. [01:55:58.913 – 01:56:05.272] I was so busy doing what I was doing, I never examined what I was about and what my motives were and, and what I was made up of.

[01:56:05.272 – 01:56:06.693] I never spent time doing that. [01:56:06.693 – 01:56:10.193] I always kept that narcotized and didn't have to worry about it. [01:56:10.193 – 01:56:10.293] And- [01:56:10.483 – 01:56:17.763] And, and so when I started in, I got those two lines in, then all at once, and I'm talking about seconds. [01:56:17.763 – 01:56:19.683] I, I'm not talking about a long process. [01:56:19.683 – 01:56:21.683] I'm talking about six or eight seconds. [01:56:21.683 – 01:56:27.363] I saw that, and in one motion just opened up and started to pour out my heart. [01:56:27.363 – 01:56:28.063] That's all. [01:56:28.063 – 01:56:32.593] It wasn't any real piece of work with analytical columns and this kind of stuff.

[01:56:32.593 – 01:56:33.783] That came later. [01:56:33.783 – 01:56:37.602] But when I got through with it, I had three pages of just my… [01:56:37.602 – 01:56:44.023] It was just such a torrent of things coming out that my hand flew trying to keep up with, with what was coming for. [01:56:44.023 – 01:56:48.963] I mean, things came out of me that I had never even consciously thought of in my entire life. [01:56:48.963 – 01:56:52.803] And when I got through, I had three pages of hopeless-looking scribble. [01:56:52.803 – 01:56:55.563] Wasn't much to look at, but I'll tell you this.

[01:56:55.563 – 01:56:59.903] It's the most important day's work I have ever done in my entire life. [01:56:59.903 – 01:57:02.883] I've done two other inventories. [01:57:02.883 – 01:57:05.993] Now, you won't accuse me of analysis paralysis, I don't think. [01:57:05.993 – 01:57:10.203] In 50 years, I have done three complete inventories. [01:57:10.203 – 01:57:12.683] I think I'm right about on track. [01:57:12.683 – 01:57:16.843] And those, each one of them had a different flavor. [01:57:16.843 – 01:57:19.483] The second one was around five or six years. [01:57:19.483 – 01:57:29.663] And in that one, I got into more of the, of what the, the, the, the, the more probing inventory's about, of trying to take a look at, at, at, at those fears and

[01:57:29.663 – 01:57:35.663] anger and the things that had consumed me and owned w- the way I thought, those causes and conditions. [01:57:35.663 – 01:57:38.103] And so that was a defining place for me. [01:57:38.103 – 01:57:47.983] When I got through with that inventory, crude as it looked, it was the most important day's work in, in the sense that I have never been the same man since. [01:57:47.983 – 01:57:52.243] I knew that day that I was alcoholic, period. [01:57:52.243 – 01:57:53.363] Period. [01:57:53.363 – 01:57:55.343] No other window dressing. [01:57:55.343 – 01:57:59.763] Not the young case or that, the complicated case, the tragic case.

[01:57:59.763 – 01:58:01.743] I'm, I'm alcoholic. [01:58:01.743 – 01:58:08.003] I'm a guy who has lost the ability to control my drinking, and it'll never come back. [01:58:08.003 – 01:58:10.903] I'll be alcoholic till the day I die. [01:58:10.903 – 01:58:16.803] And I knew that day that I was absolutely beat, that I'm a guy who can't drink. [01:58:16.803 – 01:58:20.623] I'm not somebody who's wised up and decided he won't drink. [01:58:20.623 – 01:58:23.503] I'm a guy who acknowledged cellular level. [01:58:23.503 – 01:58:24.963] I'm a guy who can't drink. [01:58:24.963 – 01:58:29.383] And I'll tell you something, fellow alcoholics, that war was over.

[01:58:29.383 – 01:58:33.733] That war was over, never to rear its ugly head again. [01:58:33.733 – 01:58:42.083] I will never be bothered again by craving for alcohol, by any allergic reaction, unless I make one mistake, and that's take a drink. [01:58:42.083 – 01:58:44.383] That's the only way that physical condition… [01:58:44.383 – 01:58:46.172] Otherwise, I look like anybody else. [01:58:46.172 – 01:58:49.383] They do an MRI on me, I don't look any different than anybody else. [01:58:49.383 – 01:58:53.283] They don't say, "Hey, look, this guy's an alcoholic." I look like anybody else physically. [01:58:53.283 – 01:58:55.123] There's just something peculiar about me.

[01:58:55.123 – 01:58:56.363] If I take a drink, I'm in trouble. [01:58:56.363 – 01:58:58.603] So that, that war is over. [01:58:58.603 – 01:59:05.703] I haven't doubted for one millisecond in all these years whether I'm alcoholic. [01:59:05.703 – 01:59:07.223] I know that, and that's done. [01:59:07.223 – 01:59:09.443] Tremendously important place. [01:59:09.443 – 01:59:11.523] This gives the long view of sobriety. [01:59:11.523 – 01:59:13.343] That doesn't give short view. [01:59:13.343 – 01:59:14.383] That gives long view. [01:59:14.383 – 01:59:18.483] I want to be sober till the day I die, and not in any hurry to do that. [01:59:18.483 – 01:59:21.163] But I, I, that, that's what I, I feel. [01:59:21.163 – 01:59:26.083] And the other thing is that day I became a real member of Alcoholics Anonymous.

[01:59:26.083 – 01:59:28.883] Didn't sign a pledge, didn't tell anybody. [01:59:28.883 – 01:59:29.983] Nothing to join up. [01:59:29.983 – 01:59:31.403] You don't have to raise your right hand. [01:59:31.403 – 01:59:33.483] But I've never been the same. [01:59:33.483 – 01:59:37.483] And, and that, I was genuinely greeting people out there. [01:59:37.483 – 01:59:38.783] I wasn't just clowning. [01:59:38.783 – 01:59:40.583] I was genuinely greeting people. [01:59:40.583 – 01:59:43.483] I like to see people walking into the place know they're welcome. [01:59:43.483 – 01:59:48.863] I want them to know that they're in the right place, that there are people in here who's just not quite right, you know?

[01:59:48.863 – 01:59:52.543] And so, and, and I can model that as good as anybody. [01:59:52.543 – 01:59:55.123] Yeah, so that's what I want AA to be, you know? [01:59:55.123 – 01:59:59.083] And, and so I don't mind welcoming people to your meeting. [01:59:59.083 – 02:00:00.923] Um, it doesn't mi- bother me whatsoever. [02:00:00.923 – 02:00:07.903] I, I invite people, I, I welcome people to their, to their own home group a lot of times. [02:00:07.903 – 02:00:14.203] 'Cause a lot of times, I swear to God, we act like a bunch of robots, man, the way we just sort of walk around and…

[02:00:14.203 – 02:00:15.103] Yeah, anyway. [02:00:15.103 – 02:00:17.543] I didn't mean to editorialize too much. [02:00:17.543 – 02:00:19.583] Just that I wanted to sneak that in just a little bit, though. [02:00:19.583 – 02:00:22.683] Uh, but that's where I became a member. [02:00:22.683 – 02:00:25.883] And what I mean by that, it, it has… [02:00:25.883 – 02:00:27.422] I cannot remember. [02:00:27.422 – 02:00:30.953] I, honest to God, it, it is not bad memory. [02:00:30.953 – 02:00:36.363] I cannot remember the last time I went into a meeting with a thought of what I needed. [02:00:36.363 – 02:00:43.343] That has not been a thought for me because I don't really see meetings that way.

[02:00:43.343 – 02:00:51.183] You know, meetings is where I go and meet with my friends and we celebrate, and we, we, we, we, we, we act, we react with each other. [02:00:51.183 – 02:00:52.163] We, we support. [02:00:52.163 – 02:00:53.603] That's what meeting's for. [02:00:53.603 – 02:00:54.963] It's where we meet that, that joy. [02:00:54.963 – 02:00:56.233] It's not problem-solving. [02:00:56.233 – 02:01:04.183] When I come to a meeting, uh, what I do is, uh, I kind of look for folk that ain't having much fun. [02:01:04.183 – 02:01:06.763] Uh, that, that, that's the people. [02:01:06.763 – 02:01:08.723] I got a nose for n- for newcomers.

[02:01:08.723 – 02:01:11.323] If I see fresh meat, I salivate. [02:01:11.323 – 02:01:15.163] And I, and I'll get on them r- right quick like. [02:01:15.163 – 02:01:18.283] And, and so I, I, I know … [02:01:18.283 – 02:01:20.603] Anyway, I could give you a thousand more stories about that. [02:01:20.603 – 02:01:27.683] But I think that's a wonderful thing, you know, that, uh, to, to bring life to this sucker, you know, to bring life, bring something, bring… [02:01:27.683 – 02:01:28.983] And so that's what I do. [02:01:28.983 – 02:01:33.943] And so that's, that's started, what's starting to take shape. [02:01:33.943 – 02:01:41.783] I'll just say this about that, and if anybody wants to talk about this, I'll be around here till real early Saturday morning.

[02:01:41.783 – 02:01:44.463] That when, when I gotta go back to North Carolina. [02:01:44.463 – 02:01:52.583] But if anybody wants to talk about this business, you, you know with a history like mine, there's some obvious major league work to do with amends. [02:01:52.583 – 02:02:00.323] If there's anybody here that's hung up with dealing with some amends that seem impossible, I'm here to tell you there are none that are impossible. [02:02:00.323 – 02:02:05.423] And, and I'll be glad to, to, to communicate with anybody who wants to, wants to talk about that.

[02:02:05.423 – 02:02:11.783] But I'm not gonna take the time to deal with the other, other than to say that, you know, I, I think our program's laid out in a very logical way. [02:02:11.783 – 02:02:16.935] First three steps to me They're basically the foundation for recovery. [02:02:16.935 – 02:02:21.505] Of, of, um, whipped and finding a power, and then getting that hope. [02:02:21.505 – 02:02:25.395] And then four through seven are about dealing with those causes and conditions. [02:02:25.395 – 02:02:31.055] What is it that makes me have such a weird way of relating to alcohol and to the world around me?

[02:02:31.055 – 02:02:36.795] What is it that makes it so difficult for me to have relationships with people of any type? [02:02:36.795 – 02:02:38.735] What's the tro- trouble about it? [02:02:38.735 – 02:02:43.315] What is it causes my mind to turn irresistibly to the thought of a drink? [02:02:43.315 – 02:02:45.235] Those are causes and conditions. [02:02:45.235 – 02:02:49.215] And being dry, I don't care how long, won't touch them. [02:02:49.215 – 02:02:53.455] That requires the surgery of Alcoholics Anonymous. [02:02:53.455 – 02:03:01.455] And, and that's why I think this is involved in that, in four, in that four through seven, of, of looking at this cause and condition, then that decision, you wanna get better, don't you?

[02:03:01.455 – 02:03:03.595] You wanna get well or don't you? [02:03:03.595 – 02:03:05.835] You wanna work both sides of the street? [02:03:05.835 – 02:03:06.695] Well, good luck. [02:03:06.695 – 02:03:09.495] You know, but it's a, it's a real decision point. [02:03:09.495 – 02:03:13.835] And, and that came to me, and I honest to God wanted to be a different man. [02:03:13.835 – 02:03:15.535] I truly wanted to change. [02:03:15.535 – 02:03:18.495] I didn't wanna change too quick, but I, I wanted to change. [02:03:18.495 – 02:03:19.775] As soon as… [02:03:19.775 – 02:03:21.315] Gradually. [02:03:21.315 – 02:03:23.655] You know, I'd, I'd pray with one eye open. [02:03:23.655 – 02:03:29.015] And say, "Yeah, I hope you'll do this for me, but, uh, not today.

[02:03:29.015 – 02:03:32.415] No, not today." "But, but I'm almost ready." You know, that… [02:03:32.415 – 02:03:34.295] So that was kind of a sneaking up deal. [02:03:34.295 – 02:03:35.995] And then the amends process. [02:03:35.995 – 02:03:38.815] My, my belief, I, I'll just state it glocal- globally. [02:03:38.815 – 02:03:48.795] My belief is that every time I screwed over, misused, abused, took advantage of somebody else in whatever way, I didn't win, I lost. [02:03:48.795 – 02:03:51.795] And I paid for it with a piece of my soul. [02:03:51.795 – 02:03:55.595] I will never be a free man. [02:03:55.595 – 02:03:57.495] I don't care how long I'm sober.

[02:03:57.495 – 02:04:06.495] I will never be free, a free man until I go back and make right those wrongs to the extent that I possibly can. [02:04:06.495 – 02:04:11.075] And I'll just tell you this, we've got a powerful program here. [02:04:11.075 – 02:04:12.995] Even with the… [02:04:12.995 – 02:04:16.775] You know, I had amends just, just like m- most of us here had a lot of amends. [02:04:16.775 – 02:04:26.855] Even with the amends where I took human life, this program was adequate to, to, to guide, direct, support, and help [02:04:26.855 – 02:04:36.855] me make full direct amends to the victims in that crime, to the families, so that I could find a way to live at peace with myself and with

[02:04:36.855 – 02:04:39.655] purpose that has direct relationship to that. [02:04:39.655 – 02:04:44.815] So wha- whatever you think you're trapped in, if you've got some tro- trouble in that, I'll be glad to talk with you about it. [02:04:44.815 – 02:04:53.815] But I won't, I won, I won't visit that any further right now, not because I wouldn't be totally willing to, but, but it's just that I'd, I'd, I'd like to deal with a little bit of, of s- some more stuff. [02:04:53.815 – 02:04:56.455] But that's a hugely important thing.

[02:04:56.455 – 02:05:02.715] Then after the, uh, the, the amends process comes those marvelous promises, and they're not pie in the sky. [02:05:02.715 – 02:05:07.255] They say before we're even halfway through with that amend stuff, here's what's gonna happen. [02:05:07.255 – 02:05:08.295] It start to happen. [02:05:08.295 – 02:05:16.535] And then from that point on, I won't elaborate on it, but I'll just point out i- if I were gonna give any homework here tonight, I'd tell you what it would be. [02:05:16.535 – 02:05:21.575] Go, go, when you go home tonight, it won't take 20 minutes.

[02:05:21.575 – 02:05:25.835] Read the, the portion of the book on step 10. [02:05:25.835 – 02:05:28.015] It's short. [02:05:28.015 – 02:05:28.955] You, you really can. [02:05:28.955 – 02:05:30.015] You can read it in 20 minutes. [02:05:30.015 – 02:05:32.235] But read it a little bit more slowly. [02:05:32.235 – 02:05:40.955] And instead of thinking about just the inventory portion of the step, take a look at what's laced into that. [02:05:40.955 – 02:05:50.295] Because what you find in everything in there, the action that we may take a- for, ta- take to relieve ourselves always ends up focused on others. [02:05:50.295 – 02:06:00.335] See, if you believe like I do, and like our book makes very, very clear, ours is essentially a problem of self, self-will, self-centeredness,

[02:06:00.335 – 02:06:01.875] and all of that stuff. [02:06:01.875 – 02:06:09.295] Well, I'm just one who has come to believe that you don't deal with a self-centered condition by focusing on self. [02:06:09.295 – 02:06:19.375] And that there's a transition that occurs at the end of step nine, where the focus of this program very deliberately mor- moves toward focus on [02:06:19.375 – 02:06:19.835] others. [02:06:19.835 – 02:06:27.295] I believe that that is vital to a real full recovery, a full rewarding recovery. [02:06:27.295 – 02:06:28.915] And it's just simple stuff. [02:06:28.915 – 02:06:30.415] I'll give you the one example in there.

[02:06:30.415 – 02:06:38.155] It says, you know, if you, in, in that 10 steps says, in my words not the book's, but if you goof, and you know what we get restored to is human. [02:06:38.155 – 02:06:41.255] I mean, we don't become superhuman and transcend life's troubles. [02:06:41.255 – 02:06:43.855] We, we're, we get restored to life. [02:06:43.855 – 02:06:43.965] And wh- [02:06:44.070 – 02:06:46.390] We're gonna have times that are just difficult times. [02:06:46.390 – 02:06:47.290] We're gonna screw up. [02:06:47.290 – 02:06:48.510] We're gonna step on toes. [02:06:48.510 – 02:06:51.130] But when we do, it's no big deal. [02:06:51.130 – 02:06:56.490] You don't need Freudian analysis or, or do a whole big inventory again.

[02:06:56.490 – 02:06:57.550] You just goof. [02:06:57.550 – 02:06:58.390] That's part of life. [02:06:58.390 – 02:07:01.730] And what the book says, we deal with it quickly. [02:07:01.730 – 02:07:06.770] Talk to somebody if we need to, but we take action quickly. [02:07:06.770 – 02:07:14.750] And then in one motion, it doesn't even break the sentence, we immediately turn our thoughts to how we can be s– of help to somebody else. [02:07:14.750 – 02:07:20.610] Yeah, that whole transition is not about learning how to fix myself in 12 easy lessons. [02:07:20.610 – 02:07:30.730] It's about trying to find a way that I can get those defects dealt with so that I can be spiritually prepared to engage in this business called living

[02:07:30.730 – 02:07:31.630] and take my place. [02:07:31.630 – 02:07:41.630] It's amazing what I see that happens with alcoholics, me and others, who really get into that thing where you take on a, an attitude of really trying [02:07:41.630 – 02:07:45.290] to contribute something in life, and amazing things happen. [02:07:45.290 – 02:07:48.070] I see alcoholics do stuff that is absolutely unbelievable. [02:07:48.070 – 02:07:50.110] And so that's, that's what happened to me. [02:07:50.110 – 02:07:55.030] I– Those things happened to me in a, in a– while I was still locked up in maximum custody. [02:07:55.030 – 02:08:04.790] There isn't a reward or a blessing that of– that Alcoholics Anonymous offers that didn't come to me when I was locked up like a wild animal in a zoo.

[02:08:04.790 – 02:08:10.370] I'll assure you that creature comforts are not required for spiritual growth. [02:08:10.370 – 02:08:12.570] They're not required. [02:08:12.570 – 02:08:16.050] And I became a free man when I was locked up like a wild animal. [02:08:16.050 – 02:08:26.070] I became a man who was able to live with dignity and honor and peace in a place where the environment was characterized by man's inhumanity to man, and in an [02:08:26.070 – 02:08:30.170] environment that defied imagination, and I was able to live with dignity. [02:08:30.170 – 02:08:36.330] I was able to become a leader in an environment like that, just on the principles we talk about here tonight.

[02:08:36.330 – 02:08:38.910] So I'm not talking about I reckon these things will do. [02:08:38.910 – 02:08:41.960] They are, they are powerful principles that'll really cut through. [02:08:41.960 – 02:08:47.750] And, uh, when I left the institution, I mean, I didn't just leave, they, they asked me to leave. [02:08:47.750 – 02:08:52.310] And they, uh, on condition that I would agree to go to North Carolina. [02:08:52.310 – 02:08:58.570] I did not– I, I didn't really don't want to go back to Mayberry, but I, I, I do– I guarantee I didn't argue. [02:08:58.570 – 02:09:01.310] I said, "Yes, sir, I'll go." And so I did.

[02:09:01.310 – 02:09:02.770] Best thing that ever happened to me. [02:09:02.770 – 02:09:10.970] I was paroled in, in, uh, in, uh, 1960 to back to the State of North Carolina and got immediately active at AA. [02:09:10.970 – 02:09:13.550] That's the understatement of the year, by the way. [02:09:13.550 – 02:09:16.470] I, I was like a wild young goat running around out there. [02:09:16.470 – 02:09:18.730] I lost twenty-five pounds the first six months I was out. [02:09:18.730 – 02:09:22.430] Now I'm still active, but I gained weight. [02:09:22.430 – 02:09:27.850] Did– But anyway, I, I j- I just went wild, went wide open and, uh, been that way ever since.

[02:09:27.850 – 02:09:37.970] And things happened that just absolutely, uh, uh, uh, un- They're unbelievable, but that I almost– I've got so [02:09:37.970 – 02:09:41.930] that unbelievable coincidences don't even surprise me anymore. [02:09:41.930 – 02:09:43.850] I, I've just sort of got… [02:09:43.850 – 02:09:49.480] Yeah, it's a strange thing that I, I think we almost get routinized to seeing miracles at AA. [02:09:49.480 – 02:09:52.950] We just get routinized with it, and we just say, "Oh, yeah. [02:09:52.950 – 02:09:53.930] Well, another miracle. [02:09:53.930 – 02:09:54.430] There you go. [02:09:54.430 – 02:10:04.190] What's next?" You go, "What's n-?" But, but when you think about that thing, that, uh, yeah, when I left that institution, man, I had just tiny little dreams that most folks have.

[02:10:04.190 – 02:10:06.270] You had them wherever you came from. [02:10:06.270 – 02:10:07.070] You know? [02:10:07.070 – 02:10:10.630] And, and so I had little dreams, and, and, uh, they were small. [02:10:10.630 – 02:10:14.490] I got immediately active the day I, the day I hit the street. [02:10:14.490 – 02:10:16.090] I was, I was active. [02:10:16.090 – 02:10:24.310] Two weeks after I was out, uh, the guys asked me to go to a prison with them, and I went, at– with great reluctance, 'cause I wasn't sure I'd get out. [02:10:24.310 – 02:10:25.030] But I went anyway. [02:10:25.030 – 02:10:34.950] Two months after I was out, now I'm a guy on parole from a maximum custody penitentiary, I was named outside sponsor of a prison AA group.

[02:10:34.950 – 02:10:40.770] Now, that may not sound like a big deal to you, but I'll guarantee it was a big deal to me. [02:10:40.770 – 02:10:50.890] You know, here I'm a guy who's wondering if he'll ever be able to eat at the table, and I'm asked to be a trusted servant in a leadership role, carrying a program back [02:10:50.890 – 02:10:54.590] to an environment, well, not like I just left, but of that nature. [02:10:54.590 – 02:10:58.150] And, and, and, and, and what a tremendous affirmation, eh? [02:10:58.150 – 02:11:01.870] About the same time, a parole guy came to me with a crime like mine.

[02:11:01.870 – 02:11:07.910] You know that driving would have been not in the realm of consideration for me, and it wasn't for me. [02:11:07.910 – 02:11:17.950] But my parole guy came to me about, about two months after I was out, and he said, he said, "Are you real active in this AA thing?" And I said, "Yes, sir." Concerned me because I thought he'd tell me to s- to slow [02:11:17.950 – 02:11:18.810] down, and I knew it wouldn't. [02:11:18.810 – 02:11:26.370] And, uh, he said, "Wouldn't it help you if you could drive?" And I said, "Yes, sir, but I can't." You know, like he didn't know.

[02:11:26.370 – 02:11:36.390] And, uh, and i- he said, "Well, let me check it out." And, and a little later, he asked me to come up to a place in, in, in town and introduced me to the driver's [02:11:36.390 – 02:11:39.770] license guy, and the driver's license guy gave me a driver's license. [02:11:39.770 – 02:11:42.210] Didn't even ask me if I could drive. [02:11:42.210 – 02:11:47.330] No test of any kind whatsoever. [02:11:47.330 – 02:11:49.810] Didn't even pay for it. [02:11:49.810 – 02:11:56.250] I j- I always feel uncomfortable when I tell that because there's got to be something wrong with that.

[02:11:56.250 – 02:12:01.790] That– I know that's not legal because- It's not the way it works. [02:12:01.790 – 02:12:03.770] But that's the way it worked then. [02:12:03.770 – 02:12:10.170] And, uh, and I've, I've heard some people tell me I must have been powerfully connected politically. [02:12:10.170 – 02:12:10.910] Yeah. [02:12:10.910 – 02:12:12.470] Yeah, but I sure was. [02:12:12.470 – 02:12:22.650] Sheriff and I were intimate acquaintances that was- So what I truly believe, what I truly believe is that when God's [02:12:22.650 – 02:12:29.710] got work for me to do, hear what I'm saying, not when I want a job, but– or when I want to drive.

[02:12:29.710 – 02:12:36.570] When God's got work for me to do, the walls come down, and that's just one example. [02:12:36.570 – 02:12:47.130] The wall of being able to take on a responsible service position, sponsoring that group, of the driver's license that I wouldn't have even considered thinking of, and it's restored [02:12:47.130 – 02:12:49.170] with no effort whatsoever on my part. [02:12:49.170 – 02:12:52.534] I was elected DCM five months after I was out. [02:12:52.534 – 02:13:00.894] I'd, uh, I'd done two years, not at Michigan State, but I, I took two years of college from Michigan State while I was locked up, and I'd had learned to spell DCM.

[02:13:00.894 – 02:13:01.874] I wasn't sure what it meant. [02:13:01.874 – 02:13:06.294] But I took the job, and I, and I, and I, and I gave it my all. [02:13:06.294 – 02:13:09.264] I did two years after I was out. [02:13:09.264 – 02:13:19.274] I was sitting in my house one day, minding my own business, and, and a phone came in from the capital, and, uh, uh, the fella at the prison headquarters, and, and he had [02:13:19.274 – 02:13:23.374] come by the unit that I sponsored one time, and we'd met for just a couple of minutes.

[02:13:23.374 – 02:13:27.674] And, uh, it was him on the phone, and he, he, he, he, he, he, he asked for Mr. [02:13:27.674 – 02:13:28.994] Ivester when he called in. [02:13:28.994 – 02:13:31.414] And so he got on the phone, and he said, "Mr. [02:13:31.414 – 02:13:41.494] Ivester, we're expanding the rehabilitation program in our prison," says, "We were wondering if you would consider accepting a position." And ju-just hu- just, just natural [02:13:41.494 – 02:13:49.294] reaction, I said, "Do you know who you're talking to?" And he said, he said, "Oh, yeah, we've checked you out." And of course they had.

[02:13:49.294 – 02:13:58.544] And I, and I, I said to him, "My God, man, I'd rather do that than anything I could possibly imagine." It had… [02:13:58.544 – 02:14:01.474] I had never thought of it, nor had anybody else. [02:14:01.474 – 02:14:11.474] Uh, at least they hadn't thought about it long enough to take any action on it because a-as of that day, there had never been an ex-con in history hired into [02:14:11.474 – 02:14:13.334] a prison system on this planet. [02:14:13.334 – 02:14:14.934] Now, I knew that. [02:14:14.934 – 02:14:15.854] I knew that. [02:14:15.854 – 02:14:18.374] And I also knew they weren't gonna start with me.

[02:14:18.374 – 02:14:20.874] But they did. [02:14:20.874 – 02:14:21.814] They did. [02:14:21.814 – 02:14:27.874] And I was employed at 61, a little le- little less than two years after I, after I walked out of my… [02:14:27.874 – 02:14:35.234] I had to be discharged from parole from a maximum custody institution to become an official with the North Carolina system. [02:14:35.234 – 02:14:38.434] That may sound like we're Stone Age in North Carolina. [02:14:38.434 – 02:14:43.774] Well, I, I won't make any… [02:14:43.774 – 02:14:47.114] Well, we did elect Jesse Helms for a whole lifetime. [02:14:47.114 – 02:14:51.334] Anyway, strike that off the record.

[02:14:51.334 – 02:15:01.554] But if there's any place on this planet that would be unlikely to hire an ex-con as a prison official, I guarantee you North Carolina [02:15:01.554 – 02:15:05.274] ought to be high on the list of it won't happen here. [02:15:05.274 – 02:15:07.754] But it did, and I'm proud of my state. [02:15:07.754 – 02:15:10.974] N-not just 'cause of me, I'm proud of my state for doing something that bold. [02:15:10.974 – 02:15:18.854] The g- our, our governor was a man named Terry Sanford, who ran for president one time, and he was a fine, fine, uh, fine man.

[02:15:18.854 – 02:15:19.314] He, uh… [02:15:19.314 – 02:15:21.604] Well, they had to know what they were doing. [02:15:21.604 – 02:15:23.634] They never discussed it with me from the… [02:15:23.634 – 02:15:25.354] It's ama-amazing to me to this day. [02:15:25.354 – 02:15:31.774] From the day I was employed till the day I retired, not a single person in that system ever discussed my history. [02:15:31.774 – 02:15:33.734] I'm the first guy ever. [02:15:33.734 – 02:15:40.094] And I thought surely they're gonna say, "Man, do you realize what a risk we're taking, that you got the weight of the world on your shoulders?

[02:15:40.094 – 02:15:43.734] If you screw up, you're gonna set everything back." Nobody said a word. [02:15:43.734 – 02:15:47.754] Sometimes I wasn't even sure they knew, uh, but they had to. [02:15:47.754 – 02:15:48.694] I mean, my God, they… [02:15:48.694 – 02:15:50.874] But nobody ever said a thing to me. [02:15:50.874 – 02:15:59.194] And, and so I started a career that, uh, is, uh, wide open, only way I know to go, and I gave it my all. [02:15:59.194 – 02:16:03.834] I, I treated every job I had like it was the most important one I'd ever seen.

[02:16:03.834 – 02:16:06.274] And I'm a pretty doggone good worker. [02:16:06.274 – 02:16:12.914] I, I was, I was a good worker when people were overrating me while I was drunk, but I just couldn't stay on my feet. [02:16:12.914 – 02:16:15.714] But, but if I could've stayed on my feet, man, I'd have aced it. [02:16:15.714 – 02:16:23.363] I- But anyway, uh, uh, I just started taking off in the system, and I, I started getting… [02:16:23.363 – 02:16:25.994] I, it's, it's an amazing thing to me. [02:16:25.994 – 02:16:29.454] You, you believe it or not, it doesn't matter, but it's God's truth.

[02:16:29.454 – 02:16:39.574] From the day of my first job till my last job, I never applied for one single job, promotion, [02:16:39.574 – 02:16:42.274] transfer, pay raise, nothing. [02:16:42.274 – 02:16:43.434] Not one. [02:16:43.434 – 02:16:46.454] Now, I don't think I'm God's special child. [02:16:46.454 – 02:16:47.994] I'll tell you what I do believe. [02:16:47.994 – 02:16:57.994] I believe that when I give it my best and I demonstrate capabilities, what I know from years in management, that God knows there's a hunger for good people on [02:16:57.994 – 02:16:58.534] jobs. [02:16:58.534 – 02:17:00.914] There's a hunger for leadership. [02:17:00.914 – 02:17:02.514] There's a hunger for managers.

[02:17:02.514 – 02:17:05.074] And, and so I wasn't aspiring to anything. [02:17:05.074 – 02:17:07.254] I would've kept the first job I had. [02:17:07.254 – 02:17:08.694] I'd have done it for nothing. [02:17:08.694 – 02:17:09.954] I wasn't even sure they paid. [02:17:09.954 – 02:17:10.954] We never talked about that. [02:17:10.954 – 02:17:14.974] But they sent me money, uh, more and more as the years went by. [02:17:14.974 – 02:17:17.644] And, and so I started just getting pulled up and- [02:17:17.856 – 02:17:27.956] management and directing things and, and then one day, the head of our system, e- even though I was in the system, it's still a startling fact because warden has a special kind of

[02:17:27.956 – 02:17:29.156] a quality to it. [02:17:29.156 – 02:17:31.956] It's sort of a symbol of a system, you know. [02:17:31.956 – 02:17:34.376] It's, it's a powerful, powerful position. [02:17:34.376 – 02:17:39.336] And, and, the, the, and the boss called me in one day and, and asked me to… [02:17:39.336 – 02:17:41.246] If, he said he wanted me to do something for him. [02:17:41.246 – 02:17:51.496] I said, "What?" And he said, "I'd like for you to take over an institution as warden." And I swear to God, even though I'd been there eight or nine years at the time, it,

[02:17:51.496 – 02:17:52.236] it shocked me. [02:17:52.236 – 02:17:55.636] I, it, it, and, uh, because that's polar opposite. [02:17:55.636 – 02:17:59.056] I, you know, I mean, if I'm duking it out, mud wrestling with the guys, that's one thing. [02:17:59.056 – 02:18:02.376] But here, I'm gonna be the man, you know. [02:18:02.376 – 02:18:03.696] I'm the man. [02:18:03.696 – 02:18:09.746] And, uh, I said, "Oh, come on, boss." I, really what I said to him, I just came out with some vernacular. [02:18:09.746 – 02:18:18.876] I said, "I don't wanna be the head screw." And he said, he said, "Well, I want you to do it." I said, "Well, what do you want?" And so he told me.

[02:18:18.876 – 02:18:21.536] And, and, now, he didn't pick me out of a blind draw. [02:18:21.536 – 02:18:24.616] He picked me out because I had some qualities he wanted. [02:18:24.616 – 02:18:31.536] He wanted to do something in that system that had never been done, and he wanted somebody just wild enough to do it. [02:18:31.536 – 02:18:33.696] And he knew he had his man. [02:18:33.696 – 02:18:38.736] So he told me what he had in his mind, and I said, "All right, boss, you got it." And so I did. [02:18:38.736 – 02:18:43.846] I, for the next 20 years of my career, that's, that's what I did, was, was run institutions.

[02:18:43.846 – 02:18:48.116] I, I was the go-to guy for developing new facilities, and that's my, that's my meat. [02:18:48.116 – 02:18:49.406] I'm not a manager. [02:18:49.406 – 02:18:54.636] If you want somebody to manage production and tell how many cases of something you do, don't get me. [02:18:54.636 – 02:18:59.546] I guarantee you I'll screw up the production line the next day 'cause I'll have curve in that dude- … [02:18:59.546 – 02:19:00.946] 'cause that, that's just the way I think. [02:19:00.946 – 02:19:03.756] And so he knew that, and so I had a marvelous career. [02:19:03.756 – 02:19:07.496] And then finally, I had 39 years, and I was as old as rat in that barn.

[02:19:07.496 – 02:19:13.476] And I said, "Well, shoot, it's time to go." And so I left, and, uh, went to work. [02:19:13.476 – 02:19:23.536] And, uh, the day I retired, the next day, I became the chairman of correctional a- the, the Correctional Facilities Committee for AA and [02:19:23.536 – 02:19:23.986] Corrections. [02:19:23.986 – 02:19:32.056] All I did was quit getting paid, got on the other side of the fence, and I'm attacking from the outside instead of the inside now. [02:19:32.056 – 02:19:34.036] So didn't much change otherwise. [02:19:34.036 – 02:19:38.376] And that's what I've been doing ever since, among other things.

[02:19:38.376 – 02:19:42.195] I'm very, very, very active in that, and I probably will be. [02:19:42.195 – 02:19:45.416] That'll always be a very strong commitment to me for obvious reasons. [02:19:45.416 – 02:19:48.576] As, you know, I mentioned about the powerful allegiance you have to where it clicked for you. [02:19:48.576 – 02:19:50.456] And, and so that's what I do. [02:19:50.456 – 02:19:52.156] I'm, I'm an extremely busy man. [02:19:52.156 – 02:19:57.755] I, I mean, there's no point in saying it just to make the point, I guess, that I am the busiest man I know. [02:19:57.755 – 02:20:00.376] And I wouldn't have it any different.

[02:20:00.376 – 02:20:02.136] I, I wouldn't have it any different. [02:20:02.136 – 02:20:05.156] I, I'll give you one example, and then I'm gonna close up. [02:20:05.156 – 02:20:07.776] I hadn't seen any glaze yet, but I'm gonna close anyway. [02:20:07.776 – 02:20:11.436] The, uh, I, I'll give you one example. [02:20:11.436 – 02:20:16.016] I, and the reason, one reason I said I wanna be an old-timer, sometimes people think when you get old, you gotta act old. [02:20:16.016 – 02:20:18.436] And, uh, and I just don't believe that. [02:20:18.436 – 02:20:21.116] You know, I mean, I understand some people get physical difficulties.

[02:20:21.116 – 02:20:21.876] I understand that. [02:20:21.876 – 02:20:23.716] I've got a few, and I have to go up stairs slower. [02:20:23.716 – 02:20:33.856] But what I find is that when I am vigorously, actively involved in s- in doing productive service work, it does not sap energy. [02:20:33.856 – 02:20:34.956] It creates it. [02:20:34.956 – 02:20:41.796] I was in town, in State, in State one weekend, and word got out, and there was several people that said I owed them debts. [02:20:41.796 – 02:20:45.496] You know, said they want me to come around and do like a traveling evangelist.

[02:20:45.496 – 02:20:47.256] You know, and make a swing. [02:20:47.256 – 02:20:49.936] And I wasn't counting at the time, but I knew it was kinda heavy. [02:20:49.936 – 02:20:59.956] In a four-day period, they weren't all in one place, I drove 2,000 miles across the entire half of [02:20:59.956 – 02:21:10.376] our state, spoke a total of 12 and a half hours during that four-day day span, finished my last one [02:21:10.376 – 02:21:13.896] in Cary, North Carolina, where our, where our research center is. [02:21:13.896 – 02:21:16.776] And I swear to you, this is a God's truth.

[02:21:16.776 – 02:21:22.036] When I drove up in that parking lot, I had more energy than I did at the first one. [02:21:22.036 – 02:21:24.816] Man, I charged that crowd. [02:21:24.816 – 02:21:26.276] I said, "Get out the way, man. [02:21:26.276 – 02:21:29.136] Here we come." And And I'm going. [02:21:29.136 – 02:21:33.616] And that's what I find, you know, that, that, that, that doesn't wear me down. [02:21:33.616 – 02:21:35.596] What that does is charge me up. [02:21:35.596 – 02:21:39.956] And, and so I'm an active guy, not because I'm a dedicated idiot. [02:21:39.956 – 02:21:43.756] You know, I'm somebody who really likes what service gives.

[02:21:43.756 – 02:21:47.096] And when I'm actively involved in service, I'm the winner. [02:21:47.096 – 02:21:48.956] I'm the guy who gets something out of it. [02:21:48.956 – 02:21:51.496] It's not being Mahatma Gandhi of AA. [02:21:51.496 – 02:21:58.096] It, it's a matter of being a, a vital part of this, this chain reaction of love and service. [02:21:58.096 – 02:22:02.976] I wanna be a vital chain in, a link in this chain of love and service. [02:22:02.976 – 02:22:04.136] I wanna be one. [02:22:04.136 – 02:22:07.156] I don't wanna be a dead link to where the program stops. [02:22:07.156 – 02:22:12.036] I wanna be somebody that appreciates the thing, expresses the gratitude forward.

[02:22:12.036 – 02:22:13.496] And so that's the way I want to go out with it. [02:22:13.496 – 02:22:14.756] I, I wanna leave you with two… [02:22:14.756 – 02:22:18.176] I'm, I'm not somebody who closes with poetry. [02:22:18.176 – 02:22:21.696] I, I thought about singing something. [02:22:21.696 – 02:22:24.476] But God, you talk about glazing over. [02:22:24.476 – 02:22:26.436] Now, that would, that would flat glaze over. [02:22:26.436 – 02:22:28.116] But this is a first. [02:22:28.116 – 02:22:29.406] Now, I don't normally read something. [02:22:29.406 – 02:22:31.556] But I just got something somebody sent me the other day. [02:22:31.556 – 02:22:36.896] And I, I wanna, I want to ask you to, to listen to this and think about it in the spirit I'm talking about.

[02:22:36.896 – 02:22:46.396] And then I, I wanna c- close with, with something I heard Bill Wilson say, uh, 42 years ago. [02:22:46.396 – 02:22:53.696] This is a, a thing, you, you might've heard it, but it was written by an 83-year-old woman to a friend. [02:22:53.696 – 02:22:58.916] That, and, and it says in my language a lot of what I'm trying to get at here. [02:22:58.916 – 02:23:01.716] Her name, friend's name was Bertha. [02:23:01.716 – 02:23:04.776] She said, "I'm reading more and dusting less. [02:23:04.776 – 02:23:10.656] I'm sitting in the yard and admiring the view without fussing about the weeds in the garden.

[02:23:10.656 – 02:23:21.016] I'm spending more time with my family and friends and less time working." Whenever possible, life should be a pattern of experiences to sa- savor, [02:23:21.016 – 02:23:22.586] not to endure. [02:23:22.586 – 02:23:28.100] Trying to recognize these moments now and cherish them. [02:23:28.100 – 02:23:30.700] I'm not saving anything. [02:23:30.700 – 02:23:32.200] Now, now I need to hear this. [02:23:32.200 – 02:23:34.140] I'm not saving anything. [02:23:34.140 – 02:23:44.220] We use our good china and crystal for every special event, such as losing a pound, getting the sink unstopped, or the first [02:23:44.220 – 02:23:45.420] amaryllis blossom. [02:23:45.420 – 02:23:48.560] I wear my good blazer to the market.

[02:23:48.560 – 02:23:55.340] My theory is, if I look prosperous, I can shell out $28.49 for a small bag of groceries. [02:23:55.340 – 02:24:02.200] I'm not saving my good perfume for special parties, but wearing it for clerks in the hardware store and tellers at the bank. [02:24:02.200 – 02:24:03.620] Someday… [02:24:03.620 – 02:24:05.480] Hear this one. [02:24:05.480 – 02:24:11.280] Someday, and one of these days are losing their grip on my vocabulary. [02:24:11.280 – 02:24:15.460] I want to see and hear and do it now. [02:24:15.460 – 02:24:23.500] I'm not sure what others would have done had they heard they wouldn't be here for the tomorrow that we all take for granted.

[02:24:23.500 – 02:24:28.200] Don't know what they would have done for that tomorrow that we all think about. [02:24:28.200 – 02:24:33.080] I think they would have called family members and a few close friends. [02:24:33.080 – 02:24:38.180] They might have called a few former friends to apologize and mend fences for past squabbles. [02:24:38.180 – 02:24:44.740] I like to think they would have gone out for a Chinese dinner or for whatever their favorite food. [02:24:44.740 – 02:24:47.700] I'm guessing I'll never know. [02:24:47.700 – 02:24:53.960] It's those little things left undone that would make me angry if I knew my hours were limited.

[02:24:53.960 – 02:24:59.840] Angry because I hadn't written certain letters that I intended to write one of these days. [02:24:59.840 – 02:25:08.440] Angry and sorry that I didn't tell my husband and parents often enough how much I truly love them. [02:25:08.440 – 02:25:18.240] I'm trying very hard not to put off, hold back, or save anything that would add laughter and luster to our lives. [02:25:18.240 – 02:25:23.500] And every morning when I open my eyes, I t-tell myself that it is special. [02:25:23.500 – 02:25:28.800] Every day, every minute, every breath truly is a gift from God.

[02:25:28.800 – 02:25:34.220] Now, that just captures so much, that whole spirit o-of what we're about. [02:25:34.220 – 02:25:42.380] And, uh, I wanna close with the, uh, the, the, the, the, the thing I was, uh, mentioned that, that Bill introduced. [02:25:42.380 – 02:25:46.940] And, and I, and I hope, uh, uh, uh, uh, you won't just listen to the words. [02:25:46.940 – 02:25:50.560] I, I hope you'll, you'll take the message if, if you haven't already. [02:25:50.560 – 02:25:52.960] And, and hear what it says. [02:25:52.960 – 02:26:00.220] Hear what this says about springing into action, about doing something, about reaching out and making this life really mean something.

[02:26:00.220 – 02:26:09.120] Bill introduced it in '65, and I was sitting there in, in the audience when he did, what we call the Declaration of Responsibility. [02:26:09.120 – 02:26:19.260] And it was a battle cry that I don't think we've beaten the drum about nearly enough, because what it does is it, it, it doesn't [02:26:19.260 – 02:26:20.340] impose it on us. [02:26:20.340 – 02:26:30.560] But what that d-does, listen to the words: When anyone, anywhere reaches out for help, [02:26:30.560 – 02:26:38.720] I want the hand of AA to be there, and for that, I'm responsible.

[02:26:38.720 – 02:26:47.040] Not we or us or the Intergroup or Phoenix AA or North Carolina AA, I am responsible. [02:26:47.040 – 02:26:57.120] And I hope very much that wherever you are, in whatever piece of this world that you operate in, I hope very much that you'll take that pledge as a way of [02:26:57.120 – 02:27:04.000] life, you know, so that when somebody does reach out, no matter who, that you'll be willing to step forward and give some help. [02:27:04.000 – 02:27:10.080] And what'll happen is that every one of us who does that will be tremendously rewarded.

[02:27:10.080 – 02:27:13.160] And I sure wish you well, and thank you very much. [02:27:13.160 – 02:27:14.700] God bless you. [02:27:14.700 – 02:27:21.740] Folks, thanks very much. [02:27:21.740 – 02:27:23.519] I'm Tom, an alcoholic. [02:27:23.519 – 02:27:24.560] Hi, Tom. [02:27:24.560 – 02:27:27.680] Member of the Primary Purpose Group in Southern Pines, North Carolina. [02:27:27.680 – 02:27:31.400] My sobriety date is February 2nd of '57, Groundhog Day. [02:27:31.400 – 02:27:34.060] That's– And I'm delighted to be here. [02:27:34.060 – 02:27:35.160] It's good to see all of you. [02:27:35.160 – 02:27:39.780] That, uh, they, they didn't wanna work me that hard, but I could only stay for half the weekend. [02:27:39.780 – 02:27:40.800] So they loaded it up.

[02:27:40.800 – 02:27:49.599] I said, "Arizona people are gonna get their money's worth." Uh, I spoke to people on street corners, at service stations, just anywhere I saw anybody leaning, I'd just lay it on them. [02:27:49.599 – 02:27:50.980] And so [02:27:51.782 – 02:27:55.302] So, uh, the last night was what I was like, what happened, what I'm like now. [02:27:55.302 – 02:27:57.562] Today, I'm gonna, I'm gonna deal… [02:27:57.562 – 02:27:58.682] It was kind of interesting. [02:27:58.682 – 02:28:00.922] I didn't know that we didn't plan this. [02:28:00.922 – 02:28:02.482] It's funny how stuff works out. [02:28:02.482 – 02:28:09.602] We're gonna put bookends of tradition on the beginning and the end of this conference, and that was totally unplanned.

[02:28:09.602 – 02:28:14.802] Ed didn't know what I was gonna do till we were walking in the door there a few, just a few minutes ago. [02:28:14.802 – 02:28:17.742] And, uh, so what we're gonna do is, uh… [02:28:17.742 – 02:28:22.282] And I didn't know the other guys were gonna close out with sort of the historical base of tradition. [02:28:22.282 – 02:28:27.142] And what I want to do is, uh, deal with tradition from a personal standpoint. [02:28:27.142 – 02:28:37.162] Yeah, I, what I find is that traditions can be a little difficult to understand if you just try to understand the philosophy and the language of the tradition from the technical basis, that I find it

[02:28:37.162 – 02:28:40.862] a lot easier if I can understand the principle from a personal standpoint. [02:28:40.862 – 02:28:44.181] It's easy to generalize that to a larger picture, to the group. [02:28:44.181 – 02:28:46.882] And, and so that's been a real, real kind of a favorite of mine. [02:28:46.882 – 02:28:52.102] And so when he gave me just free wheeling, he said, "Just do whatever you want to do," that is dangerous to tell a drunk. [02:28:52.102 – 02:28:54.002] Just cut loose, do whatever you want to. [02:28:54.002 – 02:28:56.801] Man, we could be here till Tuesday if I didn't have to leave.

[02:28:56.801 – 02:29:06.822] Uh, so let me get going, and we will, uh, we will either quit when I get finished or absolutely by dinnertime, I guarantee you that, 'cause I'm not gonna miss dinner [02:29:06.822 – 02:29:08.922] 'cause I, I don't want to mess with that many mad alcoholics. [02:29:08.922 – 02:29:11.162] So we, I guarantee you, we'll stop in time to get a weenie. [02:29:11.162 – 02:29:20.562] Um, that, uh, the only time I've got notes is when I want to operate within some constraints. [02:29:20.562 – 02:29:24.142] You, if, uh I am dangerous if I don't organize a little bit.

[02:29:24.142 – 02:29:29.022] And, uh, that'll keep me, uh, from just getting global and taking on the whole world. [02:29:29.022 – 02:29:31.462] And so I'm just gonna kinda go through them. [02:29:31.462 – 02:29:39.562] And, uh, and bear in mind, I'm talking about my use of the, of the tradition. [02:29:39.562 – 02:29:43.122] And, and I'll tell you what, what sort of qualifies me to do that. [02:29:43.122 – 02:29:46.242] Uh, I literally use traditions in every aspect of my life. [02:29:46.242 – 02:29:50.802] I use them in my personal life, in my family life, in my professional life.

[02:29:50.802 – 02:29:58.142] I used it far more in my pro- pro- professional life when I was employed than anything I ever learned in universities or in management training or anything else. [02:29:58.142 – 02:30:01.601] I, I literally used them, uh, uh, tremendously in those things. [02:30:01.601 – 02:30:05.212] And so I'll kind of wrap a little bit about it and then… [02:30:05.212 – 02:30:11.272] One of the drawbacks with old-timers, and, and I have to confess to being that now, I swear I hate to do that. [02:30:11.272 – 02:30:16.042] But one of the things that's dangerous with old-timers, everything reminds me of something.

[02:30:16.042 – 02:30:17.242] You ever notice that? [02:30:17.242 – 02:30:21.342] Old-timers always, "Oh, that reminds me of a story," and then we take off on a goat chase or something. [02:30:21.342 – 02:30:23.082] So just beware. [02:30:23.082 – 02:30:25.662] If you see me doing too many, Howard, goose me if I do too many. [02:30:25.662 – 02:30:30.042] Um, first, you know, has anybody got a book handy? [02:30:30.042 – 02:30:30.862] A big book? [02:30:30.862 – 02:30:33.802] A wonderful person. [02:30:33.802 – 02:30:35.062] I knew it would be a woman. [02:30:35.062 – 02:30:35.702] No? [02:30:35.702 – 02:30:35.982] Good. [02:30:35.982 – 02:30:36.702] God, it's Jeffrey. [02:30:36.702 – 02:30:43.262] This man is from Salt City, New York, known to the uninformed as Syracuse, New York.

[02:30:43.262 – 02:30:44.642] Thank you, Jeffrey, very much. [02:30:44.642 – 02:30:47.502] And if I can find tradition, I'll just read that thing right quick. [02:30:47.502 – 02:30:52.532] What it says is that, that our, our, our, for our… [02:30:52.532 – 02:30:53.062] One minute. [02:30:53.062 – 02:30:54.331] Our common welfare comes first. [02:30:54.331 – 02:30:56.942] Personal recovery depends upon a, a unity. [02:30:56.942 – 02:31:07.342] And that's a, an, an awfully kind of important thing for me to think about from a personal standpoint because what that says to me is that my welfare [02:31:07.342 – 02:31:08.022] comes first. [02:31:08.022 – 02:31:12.602] Yeah, I'm a nice guy, but I'm not as nice as some folks I've heard.

[02:31:12.602 – 02:31:20.762] I had an old buddy that used to travel around some, and he would say to a group, and I know it was a rhetorical statement, but it was always troubling to me. [02:31:20.762 – 02:31:30.802] And, and he would say, "If one of us has to drink again," meaning you, the group, or me, he'd say, "I hope it's me instead of you." And every time he'd say that, [02:31:30.802 – 02:31:34.702] I'd draw up, and I'd say, "What's wrong with that fool?" And, uh, guess what?

[02:31:34.702 – 02:31:38.742] 12 years later, that boy's wish came true, and he drank again. [02:31:38.742 – 02:31:44.402] And so, uh, you know, it's kind of a hard-nosed thing, but my welfare comes first. [02:31:44.402 – 02:31:50.782] But what I have to recognize is that my welfare depends on the unity of what I depend on for my recovery. [02:31:50.782 – 02:31:54.362] And so if I don't take care of that, I'm in a heap of trouble. [02:31:54.362 – 02:31:56.042] So my welfare comes first. [02:31:56.042 – 02:31:59.602] I, I depend tremendously on my home group. [02:31:59.602 – 02:32:01.182] Now, I'm a home group person.

[02:32:01.182 – 02:32:01.902] Uh, I belong there. [02:32:01.902 – 02:32:04.141] I go to AA all over the place, but I'm a home group guy. [02:32:04.141 – 02:32:07.322] And my home group is important to me. [02:32:07.322 – 02:32:08.482] It's a part of who I am. [02:32:08.482 – 02:32:09.842] It's a part of my identity. [02:32:09.842 – 02:32:11.942] Uh, I'm a member of that group right now. [02:32:11.942 – 02:32:15.422] When I'm on the airplane tomorrow, I'll be a member of that group, an active member. [02:32:15.422 – 02:32:17.702] It's a part of me everywhere I go, whatever I do. [02:32:17.702 – 02:32:26.582] Important for me to recognize that even though that, you know, the fellows in that group like me okay, if I happen…

[02:32:26.582 – 02:32:27.822] Now, one of these days, this is probably… [02:32:27.822 – 02:32:29.542] I ought not talk about it 'cause I'll probably bring it on. [02:32:29.542 – 02:32:31.561] One of these days, I ain't gonna get back. [02:32:31.561 – 02:32:40.542] You know, every time I get up in one of those shiny silver tubes, I know there's a high ri- high risk, number one, that it ain't gonna get there, and another's that we may land before we plan. [02:32:40.542 – 02:32:43.792] That just happens a lot of times in that kind of business.

[02:32:43.792 – 02:32:47.692] And so if, if that happens, I know that my group will be properly remorseful. [02:32:47.692 – 02:32:51.682] And, uh, Monday night they'll say, "You know what happened to old Tom? [02:32:51.682 – 02:32:52.822] Oh, yeah. [02:32:52.822 – 02:32:54.582] Oh, he was a good one. [02:32:54.582 – 02:32:56.762] Now, who's leading the meeting?" You know. [02:32:56.762 – 02:32:58.262] And it'll get on. [02:32:58.262 – 02:32:59.622] And that's exactly the way it ought to be. [02:32:59.622 – 02:33:02.322] Important for me to recognize that I need that group. [02:33:02.322 – 02:33:03.662] That group doesn't need me. [02:33:03.662 – 02:33:05.122] They'll go right on. [02:33:05.122 – 02:33:07.162] If I drop in my tracks, they'll go right on.

[02:33:07.162 – 02:33:08.662] They won't miss a beat. [02:33:08.662 – 02:33:12.232] And they'll just sort of say, "That's the way it happens." Sometimes it happens, you step up and take the place. [02:33:12.232 – 02:33:14.522] And, and so that's important for me to know. [02:33:14.522 – 02:33:24.602] When I meet newcomers coming into my group, and I make it my business to do that, when I meet newcomers, if I get a chance to talk to them long enough, I tell them something that I know they never [02:33:24.602 – 02:33:25.142] believe. [02:33:25.142 – 02:33:33.802] I always welcome them to AA, and then I'll slip it in, in so many words, and say, "If you, you know, try to thank me for something, don't thank me.

[02:33:33.802 – 02:33:40.102] I need you more than you need me." Now, I know that not a single one of them ever believes that. [02:33:40.102 – 02:33:41.462] Of course they don't. [02:33:41.462 – 02:33:44.322] They're gonna see some old goat's been sober so long he's a fire hazard. [02:33:44.322 – 02:33:46.502] And they they all gonna believe that. [02:33:46.502 – 02:33:47.282] What do I need him for? [02:33:47.282 – 02:33:52.902] My concern is not that he believes it or she believes it, it's that I believe it. [02:33:52.902 – 02:34:02.714] Because if I ever get to thinking I'm some kind of a goodwill ambassador or, or the, the Gandhi of AA, and I'm just out here to just serve people, I'm the guy that's in trouble.

[02:34:02.714 – 02:34:04.334] So I want folks to know I need them. [02:34:04.334 – 02:34:06.114] I don't care whether they need me or not. [02:34:06.114 – 02:34:11.374] I just don't need to understand that AA is the lifeblood of our fellowship and of this guy's recovery. [02:34:11.374 – 02:34:17.314] It's very important to me that I have that vital kind of a connection, and that I understand that connection, that, that that's a need. [02:34:17.314 – 02:34:19.494] It's not a under the heading of nice to do. [02:34:19.494 – 02:34:29.574] There's a place in, in the second chapter, uh, the, the chapter about the solution, that says something to me about the– what it is

[02:34:29.574 – 02:34:30.694] that binds us together. [02:34:30.694 – 02:34:34.414] You know, if, if you remember that, I won't bo– I won't read it right now, I'll just quote it. [02:34:34.414 – 02:34:39.633] You better be suspicious if I quote anything in that book, 'cause I'm probably making it up. [02:34:39.633 – 02:34:43.214] The place in that, in that chapter, there is a solution. [02:34:43.214 – 02:34:45.454] The first part of it, if you recall, is about the shipwreck. [02:34:45.454 – 02:34:46.094] Remember that? [02:34:46.094 – 02:34:49.834] And about that kind of panic that sets in and how tight they come together.

[02:34:49.834 – 02:34:52.054] And then that's understandable. [02:34:52.054 – 02:34:54.514] You know, part of what draws us together is a common problem. [02:34:54.514 – 02:34:57.474] The minute you tell me an alcoholic, you don't need to tell me anything else. [02:34:57.474 – 02:34:58.494] I know the rest of your story. [02:34:58.494 – 02:35:00.934] You don't– I kn- I know you will tell me the rest of the story. [02:35:00.934 – 02:35:04.874] But, but you don't need to, 'cause you tell me an alcoholic, I know exactly. [02:35:04.874 – 02:35:09.394] I may not know what circus acts you performed, but I'll guarantee you I know what you were like on the inside.

[02:35:09.394 – 02:35:11.404] And so that's a tremendous thing. [02:35:11.404 – 02:35:14.834] And having shared that peril, naturally it pulls people together. [02:35:14.834 – 02:35:16.204] Great, great thing. [02:35:16.204 – 02:35:17.634] But it doesn't last long. [02:35:17.634 – 02:35:24.234] Do, do you ever notice, if my presumption is right, that bad memories don't last long? [02:35:24.234 – 02:35:31.654] When you, when you think back to the bad old days, if you don't watch it, you'll start remembering the good part of the bad old days. [02:35:31.654 – 02:35:38.114] And what sounds like it's unthinkable at one point, if you think about it long enough, all of a sudden it can start to have, have meaning and value again.

[02:35:38.114 – 02:35:40.954] Bad memories is not enough to recover from alcoholism. [02:35:40.954 – 02:35:43.734] If it were, far more of us would recover than do. [02:35:43.734 – 02:35:53.654] But the, the little piece right below that first section of that paragraph, the first page, says, "But what really binds us together," that bad news wouldn't be enough. [02:35:53.654 – 02:35:56.114] What binds us together is that common solution. [02:35:56.114 – 02:36:01.804] We have found a solution upon which we absolutely agree, and that's what holds us together. [02:36:01.804 – 02:36:04.874] That's what unifies this, this thing called, called unity.

[02:36:04.874 – 02:36:06.334] It's, uh… [02:36:06.334 – 02:36:10.404] Let me, let me give you a, a, a, an– I told you everything remind me of something. [02:36:10.404 – 02:36:11.874] Give you an example of something. [02:36:11.874 – 02:36:13.274] It, it will, will close to home. [02:36:13.274 – 02:36:14.513] Everything I tell you is gonna be close to home. [02:36:14.513 – 02:36:19.934] I'll tell you one that sometimes it's, uh, it calls for tough stuff. [02:36:19.934 – 02:36:23.974] And I've already told you, I was, I'm a solid group guy, big, uh, as, as a home group guy. [02:36:23.974 – 02:36:31.554] A while back, I, I belonged to a pretty structured group, and I like structure because what structure does is let you relax.

[02:36:31.554 – 02:36:35.154] If you know the limits and you know how it works, then you can relax and enjoy it. [02:36:35.154 – 02:36:38.793] If it's ill-defined and, and, uh, it just gives me a headache. [02:36:38.793 – 02:36:41.884] And, uh who's crying? [02:36:41.884 – 02:36:45.874] That was not a tearjerker. [02:36:45.874 – 02:36:48.774] LA people are like that. [02:36:48.774 – 02:36:52.154] They'll just cry just for no good reason. [02:36:52.154 – 02:36:56.894] They say, "Yo." Uh, what the heck was I talking about? [02:36:56.894 – 02:36:59.814] Oh, uh- The, the, uh… [02:36:59.814 – 02:37:01.454] But I was strong in the group. [02:37:01.454 – 02:37:04.364] I was away one, one time on a business meeting.

[02:37:04.364 – 02:37:06.524] Now, kind of listen to my phrasing here now. [02:37:06.524 – 02:37:08.424] I was away during a business meeting. [02:37:08.424 – 02:37:10.874] We had a business meeting while I was gone. [02:37:10.874 – 02:37:19.114] Now, I know, being the trusting soul that I am, that, that this action was not done because of my absence, but that might have been convenient. [02:37:19.114 – 02:37:28.954] Because the, the group decided to do something that I know good and well they knew that I would have a dying duck fit if I heard that come on the floor.

[02:37:28.954 – 02:37:33.814] And so I know that, uh, scheming alcoholics would never do that because the old man's out of town. [02:37:33.814 – 02:37:43.454] But I came back into town, and I learned that our group's s-s-system's broken up into some components, one of which is a, is a big book discussion. [02:37:43.454 – 02:37:44.944] That's a steady feature of the group. [02:37:44.944 – 02:37:48.734] That's only the pillar of the entire program, and I think vital. [02:37:48.734 – 02:37:51.534] It's vitally important to stay close to what this basic text is about. [02:37:51.534 – 02:37:58.814] And, uh, they had voted to discontinue that so that it would build up more interest in step or whatever the other groups were.

[02:37:58.814 – 02:38:03.434] Well, now I, I was, uh, the gentle soul was mad. [02:38:03.434 – 02:38:05.034] I mean, I, I wasn't angry. [02:38:05.034 – 02:38:05.694] I was mad. [02:38:05.694 – 02:38:09.594] I, I was fighting mad, and I was too mad to say anything. [02:38:09.594 – 02:38:10.513] You know what I mean? [02:38:10.513 – 02:38:13.513] That sometimes you know if you say anything, it's gonna be too much. [02:38:13.513 – 02:38:22.634] And so I bit my tongue, and I reminded myself is that when I'm out of town during a business meeting, whatever is done is done in my behalf.

[02:38:22.634 – 02:38:24.964] My vote was made by my [02:38:25.109 – 02:38:25.609] Absence. [02:38:25.609 – 02:38:28.309] We don't have absentee ballots. [02:38:28.309 – 02:38:28.669] Yeah. [02:38:28.669 – 02:38:32.309] And so I had to, to, to bite my tongue and not say anything. [02:38:32.309 – 02:38:38.469] I knew that if I, if I s- came in and said anything, I would raise an awful stink. [02:38:38.469 – 02:38:39.489] I know that. [02:38:39.489 – 02:38:47.849] Well, if I depend on that group, if the unity of that group is vital to my recovery, why am I gonna knock a hole in my own boat? [02:38:47.849 – 02:38:56.829] So it wasn't just sort of, sort of altruistic motives on my part, it's that I truly believe that the wellness of that group is vital to my recovery.

[02:38:56.829 – 02:38:58.609] That's where I'm staking my life. [02:38:58.609 – 02:39:00.609] And so I, I just held my tongue. [02:39:00.609 – 02:39:01.649] And I was mad. [02:39:01.649 – 02:39:03.349] I, I didn't discuss it with anybody. [02:39:03.349 – 02:39:06.989] And, um, and so I, I was figuring out… [02:39:06.989 – 02:39:10.189] I always like to kinda get my thoughts together before I act. [02:39:10.189 – 02:39:12.289] I don't always, but I like to do that. [02:39:12.289 – 02:39:13.269] And so I did in this case. [02:39:13.269 – 02:39:16.928] I, I, I sort of evaluated why I was feeling so strongly. [02:39:16.928 – 02:39:21.249] Was it because I was insulted because the daddy rabbit was out of town and had did something untoward?

[02:39:21.249 – 02:39:21.799] Was that what it was? [02:39:21.799 – 02:39:26.349] Was it just that I was aggravated because it did something I didn't agree with and that kind of thing? [02:39:26.349 – 02:39:27.949] Now, I wanted to be absolutely sure. [02:39:27.949 – 02:39:36.029] Was I absolutely convinced that what I was, what I was feeling was the right thing, that I honest to God wanted to do what was right? [02:39:36.029 – 02:39:46.329] And a month later, at our next business meeting, I was still too mad, and I knew that if I started, I'd make a fool out of myself and do great damage

[02:39:46.329 – 02:39:47.269] to, to the group. [02:39:47.269 – 02:39:48.709] And so I wasn't ready. [02:39:48.709 – 02:39:50.969] And so I waited one more month. [02:39:50.969 – 02:39:54.689] And you can bet I was gnashing of teeth during that month. [02:39:54.689 – 02:39:55.549] I never said a word. [02:39:55.549 – 02:39:57.449] Smiling Buddha. [02:39:57.449 – 02:39:59.929] But I, I'll get you one day. [02:39:59.929 – 02:40:02.989] And so finally I was ready. [02:40:02.989 – 02:40:04.829] And I mean, I was spiritually sound. [02:40:04.829 – 02:40:14.329] I was absolutely convinced that what I wanted to do was without motives and without revenge or anything else, that I honest to God believed that what I wanted to, to see in that group was the right thing.

[02:40:14.329 – 02:40:16.169] And so we had a business meeting. [02:40:16.169 – 02:40:26.169] At the end of the meeting, had a little bit of time at the end, somebody said, "Anything else?" And I spoke up and I said, "Yeah, uh, uh, I, I'm not gonna make a motion, but, [02:40:26.169 – 02:40:33.509] but I, I, I think a couple of months ago we made a decision to fix something that wasn't broken." Now, I didn't need to spell it out. [02:40:33.509 – 02:40:34.629] Everybody knew what I was talking about. [02:40:34.629 – 02:40:44.109] And I said, "I'm just gonna make a request, not a motion, that we ins- reinstate that program effective tonight." And a hush fell over the crowd.

[02:40:44.109 – 02:40:49.729] One guy asked one little innocuous question, and then it passed overwhelmingly. [02:40:49.729 – 02:40:57.209] The, uh, the, the message to me in that is about if I really mean it about that unity, I've gotta mean it when it affects me. [02:40:57.209 – 02:41:03.029] And if I really wanna be a responsible member, I've gotta help us get to what's right and not being right. [02:41:03.029 – 02:41:12.349] So tremendously important kind of a thing for me to understand my dependence i- i- is, is on that thing, and, and the unity of that group is what assures that I've got some place to go.

[02:41:12.349 – 02:41:16.789] Now, I spent a little more time on that than I should, so we gotta get on time for our meetings. [02:41:16.789 – 02:41:22.909] But I like to spend time on that because I think just like the first step is the foundation of every other step. [02:41:22.909 – 02:41:25.389] You know, without the first step, the rest of them are philosophy. [02:41:25.389 – 02:41:27.058] They have nothing to do with healing. [02:41:27.058 – 02:41:36.649] And, uh, same way with this tradition, that every tradition grows out of this, this need for, for unity and for, for, for, for the, the common welfare.

[02:41:36.649 – 02:41:37.889] You know, everything grows out of that. [02:41:37.889 – 02:41:43.949] And the second one is about, is about group purpose, that each group… [02:41:43.949 – 02:41:44.748] No. [02:41:44.748 – 02:41:46.338] I gotta find… [02:41:46.338 – 02:41:48.629] Al, tell me what page the traditions are on. [02:41:48.629 – 02:41:49.709] Huh? [02:41:49.709 – 02:41:52.109] 564. [02:41:52.109 – 02:41:52.778] 564. [02:41:52.778 – 02:41:54.049] I knew somebody would know. [02:41:54.049 – 02:41:55.099] Third edition. [02:41:55.099 – 02:41:55.338] I don't know. [02:41:55.338 – 02:41:55.989] I don't want the long edition. [02:41:55.989 – 02:41:57.278] I'll read back to the short one. [02:41:57.278 – 02:41:57.849] Yeah, okay. [02:41:57.849 – 02:41:58.529] Thank you very much. [02:41:58.529 – 02:41:59.429] Appreciate that. [02:41:59.429 – 02:42:07.849] The, uh, second one, for our, yeah, for our group purpose, there's but one ultimate authority, a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience.

[02:42:07.849 – 02:42:10.129] Our leaders are but trusted servants. [02:42:10.129 – 02:42:11.029] They do not govern. [02:42:11.029 – 02:42:13.469] And that's just about who's in charge. [02:42:13.469 – 02:42:16.309] You know, and, and I would, I kinda like to break that down a little bit. [02:42:16.309 – 02:42:17.669] What, what is our group purpose? [02:42:17.669 – 02:42:20.109] Well, it's stated later in the fifth tradition. [02:42:20.109 – 02:42:28.989] It says every group, every group, including this one, has but one primary purpose, and that's to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers. [02:42:28.989 – 02:42:34.489] So for that purpose, and I always like to kinda s- kinda isolate that, pull that out.

[02:42:34.489 – 02:42:44.649] For that purpose of carrying our message to the alcoholic, there is no right or wrong way or doing it my way, that that, that's determined as God [02:42:44.649 – 02:42:46.889] expresses Himself in my conscience. [02:42:46.889 – 02:42:48.629] What's the right thing to do? [02:42:48.629 – 02:42:49.649] How do I go about this? [02:42:49.649 – 02:42:59.649] I have never set up a standard method of doing a 12-step call or making an AA talk or doing a workshop because I don't know what I'm gonna do till [02:42:59.649 – 02:43:03.869] I get into the situation, and what I wanna do is be responsive to what's in front of me.

[02:43:03.869 – 02:43:05.149] And same way with the group. [02:43:05.149 – 02:43:15.159] If we get so that we're gonna just regiment and dictate a method of, of, of carrying out our count– primary purpose, what we're gonna do is bastardize our, our primary purpose, and we're [02:43:15.159 – 02:43:18.809] gonna make that reflect my purpose, you know, is how I think this must be done. [02:43:18.809 – 02:43:25.529] And so that it, it, what that says to me that I've gotta be open for God's guidance to help me get what I need to get this g- this job done.

[02:43:25.529 – 02:43:28.169] And the… [02:43:28.169 – 02:43:35.669] I should have worn, worn your glasses that said that. [02:43:35.669 – 02:43:45.169] That God or, or, or, or the, the higher power is the only, is the only, only authority as He expresses Himself in his group conscience. [02:43:45.169 – 02:43:47.289] Now, what's a group conscience? [02:43:47.289 – 02:43:56.169] That– I honestly believe that is one of the most trivialized, uh, s- uh, set of words in Alcoholics Anonymous, that we use it to describe a lot of things. [02:43:56.169 – 02:43:59.769] And my belief is that a group conscience is not a business meeting.

[02:43:59.769 – 02:44:00.049] Yeah. [02:44:00.049 – 02:44:05.849] Deciding on which brand of coffee is not something that requires the in-depth consideration of a group conscience. [02:44:05.849 – 02:44:09.409] A snap vote is, is, that's not a group conscience. [02:44:09.409 – 02:44:19.729] It's what, you know, when keeping in mind that language, for our group purpose, but one ultimate authority, a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. [02:44:19.729 – 02:44:23.449] So what that says to me, it's just like that example I gave in the first tradition. [02:44:23.449 – 02:44:33.685] What it says to me is that when I'm troubled about our, the, the, about our group purpose- What I've got to do is go prayerfully to my higher power and say, "Show me what's right.

[02:44:33.685 – 02:44:38.885] Help me understand what's right in doing this," because that's fundamentally what was, what the problem. [02:44:38.885 – 02:44:41.845] It was not that I just love to hear people talk about the book. [02:44:41.845 – 02:44:44.605] It's because I think it's fundamental to recovery. [02:44:44.605 – 02:44:45.164] That's right. [02:44:45.164 – 02:44:45.175] Yeah. [02:44:45.175 – 02:44:47.245] And so I want to get the group conscious. [02:44:47.245 – 02:44:52.225] I want to get that expressed in my conscience, and then we very quickly… [02:44:52.225 – 02:44:53.325] didn't do a group conscious on that. [02:44:53.325 – 02:44:55.485] We just did a quick vote, and it was, uh, overwhelming.

[02:44:55.485 – 02:45:00.825] But really important to find that guidance and to keep that, that in, clearly in mind. [02:45:00.825 – 02:45:02.025] It's not about who's bossing. [02:45:02.025 – 02:45:04.865] It's about how we carry out our primary function. [02:45:04.865 – 02:45:10.405] And then the other thing talks about leadership, that our leaders have a trusty service. [02:45:10.405 – 02:45:11.245] They don't govern. [02:45:11.245 – 02:45:13.845] And, and, you know, leadership is not a dirty word. [02:45:13.845 – 02:45:16.745] That's, that's a vitally important word in Alcoholics Anonymous. [02:45:16.745 – 02:45:20.085] If it weren't for leadership, this, what we're doing today wouldn't be happening.

[02:45:20.085 – 02:45:20.765] You know? [02:45:20.765 – 02:45:23.925] People have to take some leadership to make something happen. [02:45:23.925 – 02:45:24.825] Same thing in a group. [02:45:24.825 – 02:45:24.935] You know? [02:45:24.935 – 02:45:25.825] There's got to be leadership. [02:45:25.825 – 02:45:26.125] Anything. [02:45:26.125 – 02:45:27.225] Otherwise, you just got a crowd. [02:45:27.225 – 02:45:31.045] And so when you get leadership, a, a crowd of people can become a force. [02:45:31.045 – 02:45:41.165] And it's a funny thing about leadership, and y- yeah, I don't think anybody's ever elected a leader, but I know that I'm not the only long-of-tooth person in this [02:45:41.165 – 02:45:41.445] room. [02:45:41.445 – 02:45:49.745] And, uh, one of the things that comes with longer term in AA is that you're a leader whether you want to be or not.

[02:45:49.745 – 02:45:51.225] It don't make a difference. [02:45:51.225 – 02:45:52.325] You don't have to volunteer. [02:45:52.325 – 02:45:53.705] It just goes with the territory. [02:45:53.705 – 02:45:55.245] I, I'll give you an example of that. [02:45:55.245 – 02:45:59.585] I was in a, an assembly a while back, and we were voting on some no-brainer thing. [02:45:59.585 – 02:46:05.425] And it didn't mean much, but it was just a little rinky-dink thing, and I, I voted no. [02:46:05.425 – 02:46:06.445] You know how we do. [02:46:06.445 – 02:46:09.225] We'll vote it into, into oblivion. [02:46:09.225 – 02:46:12.705] And we voted about five times, and I voted no every time.

[02:46:12.705 – 02:46:14.645] Well, I mean, no big deal. [02:46:14.645 – 02:46:15.245] That's what I felt. [02:46:15.245 – 02:46:18.745] And then finally, I counted noses, and I voted yes. [02:46:18.745 – 02:46:28.305] Now, I couldn't have told you how anybody else in that assembly voted, but I'll bet you that I had twenty or five or thirty people ask me why I changed my vote. [02:46:28.305 – 02:46:31.805] See, there's a leadership that accrues to seniority. [02:46:31.805 – 02:46:34.045] You know, w- it doesn't matter whether we want it or not. [02:46:34.045 – 02:46:38.525] It's just that people expect, if you've got time in the program, that you're gonna have some wisdom.

[02:46:38.525 – 02:46:43.824] And so they'll look to, they'll look to the, to the elders for, for some guidance and signals about what to do. [02:46:43.824 – 02:46:47.335] And, uh, of course, the only thing I voted for, I counted noses. [02:46:47.335 – 02:46:48.505] I knew it wasn't going anywhere. [02:46:48.505 – 02:46:51.345] So I just wanted to quit voting on the stupid thing and get it off, kill it. [02:46:51.345 – 02:46:53.185] And that's exactly what we did. [02:46:53.185 – 02:46:57.225] So any- anyway, that authority thing. [02:46:57.225 – 02:46:58.485] It's a… [02:46:58.485 – 02:47:03.905] Sometimes, sometimes it's a lonely vigil, I mean, if you're conscientious about it.

[02:47:03.905 – 02:47:13.425] If you're conscientious, and you believe that the unity of a group or yourself or anything else is important, sometimes you have to take a stand. [02:47:13.425 – 02:47:15.965] It's not always popularity contest. [02:47:15.965 – 02:47:16.885] And, and I'll give you example. [02:47:16.885 – 02:47:17.925] When, when I was, when I was… [02:47:17.925 – 02:47:18.995] I'm always gonna give you example. [02:47:18.995 – 02:47:19.585] I'll quit saying that. [02:47:19.585 – 02:47:20.265] Just count on it. [02:47:20.265 – 02:47:21.165] I'm gonna give you example. [02:47:21.165 – 02:47:29.455] When, uh, some of y'all know that I was, uh, detained by the state of Michigan for a while in a, in a penitentiary where I got into AA.

[02:47:29.455 – 02:47:38.545] And when I got, when I was released, I, when I came back to, to North Carolina, the man that, uh, that I contacted the moment I hit the ground was an old fellow that was in that town, and that was… [02:47:38.545 – 02:47:40.665] AA was in, in awful condition in that town. [02:47:40.665 – 02:47:44.465] That first meeting I went to there, I swear to God, was the worst meeting I had ever been. [02:47:44.465 – 02:47:47.285] If we'd have had a meeting that bad in prison, somebody'd have been in trouble.

[02:47:47.285 – 02:47:49.565] There ain't no way we're gonna put up with that kind of junk. [02:47:49.565 – 02:47:52.545] And so I hit the ground, and here was this poor old guy. [02:47:52.545 – 02:47:56.785] There was one fellow there showing signs of life, and he moved, right? [02:47:56.785 – 02:48:00.585] He didn't move because I came in, but he mo- I don't think he did, but he moved anyway. [02:48:00.585 – 02:48:03.384] And so it was me and that old man. [02:48:03.384 – 02:48:06.745] Well, it's kind of a decision time, eh? [02:48:06.745 – 02:48:11.745] You know, I was twenty-two miles from a big city, and I thought, "Man, I'm gonna put up with this rinky-dink stuff.

[02:48:11.745 – 02:48:15.865] I'm going to the big town where the action is." And then a disturbing thought occurred to me. [02:48:15.865 – 02:48:18.585] I'm the second oldest AA member in that town. [02:48:18.585 – 02:48:21.625] There's only two of us, and I'm number two. [02:48:21.625 – 02:48:25.505] And the disturbing thought was, when do you become responsible? [02:48:25.505 – 02:48:27.705] When do you pick up the bat? [02:48:27.705 – 02:48:29.825] And the answer was obvious. [02:48:29.825 – 02:48:30.005] You know? [02:48:30.005 – 02:48:33.125] You can't walk out on something like that if you're made out of anything. [02:48:33.125 – 02:48:41.005] And, and so I said, "Shoot, I'm gonna stay." So I stayed and, and, uh, dug in and started doing just what our book says, create the fellowship you crave.

[02:48:41.005 – 02:48:42.525] And that's what we set out doing. [02:48:42.525 – 02:48:45.544] Now, that old man loved me dearly. [02:48:45.544 – 02:48:47.365] Loved me like a son. [02:48:47.365 – 02:48:48.945] I loved that old man. [02:48:48.945 – 02:48:50.345] He was a wonderful guy. [02:48:50.345 – 02:48:58.585] As we grew, I started to develop a little awareness that, you know, the reason- [02:48:58.795 – 02:48:59.695] Rotate people. [02:48:59.695 – 02:49:05.255] One, is just so other people can do it, but it's also to keep people from developing ownership of a job. [02:49:05.255 – 02:49:14.395] And this old boy, well, there was nobody else to, to be, but for, for some several years when they were trying to get a group going, he had been the treasurer.

[02:49:14.395 – 02:49:17.275] And I'll guarantee you there's never been a more honest treasurer in AA. [02:49:17.275 – 02:49:21.515] If– He– The biggest thing he would have done wrong would have been put money in instead of taking it out. [02:49:21.515 – 02:49:23.215] He was a totally honest guy. [02:49:23.215 – 02:49:29.935] And, uh, you, you'd think he was poor till I s- I hired the first plumber I ever had, and I saw then, that old man rich as a bull. [02:49:29.935 – 02:49:33.155] If you hire a plumber lately, you'll know what I'm talking about.

[02:49:33.155 – 02:49:36.755] But he was a plumber and, and so he was a good guy. [02:49:36.755 – 02:49:41.355] But he'd been treasurer for so long, he got kinda ownership established to that treasury. [02:49:41.355 – 02:49:51.435] And as we started to grow, people would come in and they'd buy some little old something for the group and they'd say, well, call his name and said, "That costs two dollars." And, [02:49:51.435 – 02:49:57.815] and the old boy meant well, but he'd say, "My, my, that stuff sure getting expensive." Well, you know, alcoholics are sensitive.

[02:49:57.815 – 02:50:00.675] Family of alcoholics are even more sensitive. [02:50:00.675 – 02:50:03.515] And so people started getting their feelings hurt, started getting mad. [02:50:03.515 – 02:50:06.695] Well, it was pretty obvious, uh, that we were gonna have to do something. [02:50:06.695 – 02:50:10.755] We started growing as a group, and, uh, we had our first real election in that group. [02:50:10.755 – 02:50:13.055] Now bear in mind what I'm talking about. [02:50:13.055 – 02:50:17.355] I'm talking about an old man that loved me dearly, and I love him. [02:50:17.355 – 02:50:20.995] But where does that line stop? [02:50:20.995 – 02:50:26.355] And so when we started, uh, to have an election, uh, chair was a snap.

[02:50:26.355 – 02:50:27.915] Man, we elected that in AA fashion. [02:50:27.915 – 02:50:29.215] About eight seconds, we were done. [02:50:29.215 – 02:50:30.895] Secretary, same deal. [02:50:30.895 – 02:50:32.555] GSR, same deal. [02:50:32.555 – 02:50:34.455] Then came time for treasurer. [02:50:34.455 – 02:50:39.655] That was the quietest AA meeting I have ever seen in my life. [02:50:39.655 – 02:50:42.175] Man, you could hear somebody blink their eyes in there. [02:50:42.175 – 02:50:49.795] And, and I'm sitting there saying, "For God's sake, somebody make a motion." Well, nobody did. [02:50:49.795 – 02:50:53.015] Well, that's the moment of truth. [02:50:53.015 – 02:50:58.595] You're either gonna stand up for what you know is right, or you're gonna back off and run.

[02:50:58.595 – 02:51:01.795] It, it is time for business. [02:51:01.795 – 02:51:04.855] Now, I knew that it would hurt that old man. [02:51:04.855 – 02:51:10.075] If, if I nominated somebody, it would hurt him more than the entire group combined. [02:51:10.075 – 02:51:10.995] I knew that. [02:51:10.995 – 02:51:14.735] But is the welfare of a group important? [02:51:14.735 – 02:51:19.015] Is it important that we have the healthy thing of rotation? [02:51:19.015 – 02:51:21.325] Is it important that we look after the common welfare? [02:51:21.325 – 02:51:23.135] It either is or it isn't. [02:51:23.135 – 02:51:29.875] And I'm the second oldest guy there, so I'm the logical guy, and I made a mo- motion for somebody else to be treasurer.

[02:51:29.875 – 02:51:32.875] Everybody else, uh, gladly voted. [02:51:32.875 – 02:51:35.735] And, uh, I'd like to tell you it didn't hurt the old man, but it did. [02:51:35.735 – 02:51:37.795] That was a big part of his identity. [02:51:37.795 – 02:51:40.175] He didn't drink, but he was never the same. [02:51:40.175 – 02:51:43.995] It took something out, took something, his spirit away. [02:51:43.995 – 02:51:46.975] And he kept going, but it was mechanical. [02:51:46.975 – 02:51:48.595] So it's a tough thing. [02:51:48.595 – 02:51:56.915] But two years later, when I left that town, that bedraggled couple of guys had turned into a group of sixty members.

[02:51:56.915 – 02:52:02.555] So sometimes you have to make the move for the welfare of the larger group. [02:52:02.555 – 02:52:05.735] And to get tied up in personality, you know, certainly it's difficult. [02:52:05.735 – 02:52:09.025] That's as hard a thing as I've ever done in, as I've ever done in AA. [02:52:09.025 – 02:52:12.435] But there was no question it was the right thing to do. [02:52:12.435 – 02:52:15.395] And so sometimes these things will test. [02:52:15.395 – 02:52:24.435] The reason I like to do them at a personal level, it not only has to do with understanding it more simply, it has to do with whether these principles are in place in my life.

[02:52:24.435 – 02:52:30.415] Because those traditions, the principles and traditions are just as important as the principles in the steps. [02:52:30.415 – 02:52:40.515] Bill said these are, these, th- these traditions, in so many words, what he said was they're, they, they're, they, they're to help us be a, a, at one, as one with each other [02:52:40.515 – 02:52:42.715] and with the world around us. [02:52:42.715 – 02:52:43.675] That's what they're for. [02:52:43.675 – 02:52:48.895] And so if I don't get into that and understand those principles, then, then I'm gonna be a real impaired kind of a member.

[02:52:48.895 – 02:52:52.235] Third one is about who can join. [02:52:52.235 – 02:52:57.555] It, it's probably the most cussed and discussed tradition in the program. [02:52:57.555 – 02:52:58.935] Uh, I don't know. [02:52:58.935 – 02:53:00.395] I know some of you, I know Howard does. [02:53:00.395 – 02:53:04.335] He– But I know a, a good many of you in here get around to different parts of the country. [02:53:04.335 – 02:53:12.475] And I, I haven't been anywhere in the last thirty years that the, the number one thing that people talk about is, is, uh, singleness of purpose. [02:53:12.475 – 02:53:13.435] E- everywhere I go.

[02:53:13.435 – 02:53:17.895] It's, it's a, it's a, it's a seething kind of a concern everywhere I go. [02:53:17.895 – 02:53:21.995] And, uh, and, and, and, and very frankly, we're not dealing with it very well. [02:53:21.995 – 02:53:23.495] We, we're not doing well with it at all. [02:53:23.495 – 02:53:28.755] The, um, we had to, we had at, at our, at our general service conference a couple, two or three years ago. [02:53:28.755 – 02:53:35.095] It was the theme of our general service conference, was singleness of purpose, was a major item on, at a gen– I was thrilled to see it there.

[02:53:35.095 – 02:53:38.455] But unfortunately, I saw very little in the way of a product coming out. [02:53:38.455 – 02:53:43.975] I had really hoped that something, you know, that come out that would have some definitive value in dealing with the problem. [02:53:43.975 – 02:53:45.915] And it, but it anyway, it didn't. [02:53:45.915 – 02:53:47.305] And, and it is a problem. [02:53:47.305 – 02:53:53.755] Some areas, and, and I'm talking about large areas of this country, have given up any pretense of singleness of purpose. [02:53:53.755 – 02:53:54.535] They don't even try. [02:53:54.535 – 02:53:57.875] They just write it off, that it doesn't matter.

[02:53:57.875 – 02:54:00.915] Well, y- you either believe that or you don't. [02:54:00.915 – 02:54:08.255] What our tradition says is that, you know, AA is the easiest thing in the world to, to join. [02:54:08.255 – 02:54:12.855] It's a self-d- diagnosis and self, self-appointed kind of a deal. [02:54:12.855 – 02:54:16.155] You're an alcoholic when you say you're an alcoholic. [02:54:16.155 – 02:54:19.975] Nobody else can contradict that or affirm it for you. [02:54:19.975 – 02:54:22.495] That's, that, each one of us has to make that determination. [02:54:22.495 – 02:54:23.995] It's a personal deal. [02:54:23.995 – 02:54:26.555] And membership's the same thing. [02:54:26.555 – 02:54:30.555] You know, I'm a member when I say I'm a member, and nobody has a vote on that.

[02:54:30.555 – 02:54:32.355] There's no resume. [02:54:32.355 – 02:54:34.375] There's no q- reference check. [02:54:34.375 – 02:54:35.635] I'm a member if I say I am. [02:54:35.635 – 02:54:37.835] So we're the easiest thing in the world to join. [02:54:37.835 – 02:54:41.835] But I think membership means more than attending meetings. [02:54:41.835 – 02:54:44.035] You don't have to be a member to attend meetings. [02:54:44.035 – 02:54:45.495] My God, we have a lot of open meetings. [02:54:45.495 – 02:54:46.235] Uh, anybody can go. [02:54:46.235 – 02:54:47.655] They take your goat if you want to. [02:54:47.655 – 02:54:49.965] Well, I mean, I wouldn't recommend that, but I mean, you could if you want to.

[02:54:49.965 – 02:54:50.495] It's open. [02:54:50.495 – 02:54:55.515] And, but membership means more. [02:54:55.515 – 02:54:59.394] Membership means to be a part of, to be part of. [02:54:59.394 – 02:55:05.525] And you know, when I first came to the program, I had, uh, I didn't really feel like I was part of AA. [02:55:05.525 – 02:55:15.603] I, I, I mean I f- I've, I felt enough identification to stay there, but I didn't have any real in-depth kind of a commitment so that I really [02:55:15.603 – 02:55:16.663] felt like one of the players. [02:55:16.663 – 02:55:18.843] I was just kind of like a, a, a leaf in the wind.

[02:55:18.843 – 02:55:19.943] I could have gone either way. [02:55:19.943 – 02:55:20.803] Yeah. [02:55:20.803 – 02:55:30.483] And, and so but what happened, you know, when I really got deep down and dirty and, and, and conceded to my innermost self that I was alcoholic, I've been a member ever since. [02:55:30.483 – 02:55:35.383] They everywhere, and I've never felt out of place since. [02:55:35.383 – 02:55:36.803] So it's still, it's a vital thing. [02:55:36.803 – 02:55:42.123] And, and it's a problem that if we try to deal with it at the door, I will guarantee you it'll be a loser.

[02:55:42.123 – 02:55:43.203] It'll be a loser. [02:55:43.203 – 02:55:50.623] Because when we deal with it, all too often we do it in a kind of a public way, and when we do that, somebody's gonna be embarrassed. [02:55:50.623 – 02:55:52.923] Somebody's gonna be offended. [02:55:52.923 – 02:55:55.223] And there are better ways to deal with that. [02:55:55.223 – 02:56:00.263] And, and, and what I– Well, I'll just mention two or three things that, that, that I've seen. [02:56:00.263 – 02:56:02.183] I– It's a, it's a troubling problem. [02:56:02.183 – 02:56:02.913] I'll just tell you this. [02:56:02.913 – 02:56:09.503] I won't get definitive about it, but I, I was in, in, in another state here a while back, and I went to one of the old landmark things in AA.

[02:56:09.503 – 02:56:13.803] It's, it's a big old house and it sits very near where we had an international convention one time. [02:56:13.803 – 02:56:16.143] And that big old, big old mansion's been turned into a club. [02:56:16.143 – 02:56:26.393] And I walked up on this porch with a guy, and there's a big sign that said– doesn't say, "Welcome to the land of the last resort," or, "Welcome [02:56:26.393 – 02:56:31.123] to the land of beginning again," or, "Hope lives here," or anything like that. [02:56:31.123 – 02:56:37.863] What it says was, "We don't sign papers." Well, isn't that a hell of a welcome to Jesus.

[02:56:37.863 – 02:56:47.223] I mean, I read that, and I understand the frustration, but I don't understand letting that be the, the, the, the, the, the billboard for what Alcoholics Anonymous is. [02:56:47.223 – 02:56:52.663] When that's the best we can do is, is send out a message of negativity, that's a pretty bad deal. [02:56:52.663 – 02:56:57.483] And it comes from this kind of thing of, of not having these, this thing well-defined enough. [02:56:57.483 – 02:57:01.223] And, and so I think we can do better. [02:57:01.223 – 02:57:05.523] Uh, now I'm a, I'm a guy that– I, I'll just give you two or three examples of.

[02:57:05.523 – 02:57:07.623] I believe in dealing with problems. [02:57:07.623 – 02:57:12.583] I don't believe in running from them, and I don't believe in trying to push them out of the way or pretend they don't exist. [02:57:12.583 – 02:57:14.923] I believe in dealing with them, if you can, you know. [02:57:14.923 – 02:57:17.703] And, uh, and I think you can. [02:57:17.703 – 02:57:23.123] I know way back, you know, when I was in AA just a couple years, Narcotics Anonymous came into being. [02:57:23.123 – 02:57:27.003] And the, the g- the group, I didn't know anything about it, none of us did.

[02:57:27.003 – 02:57:28.253] I mean, it was brand new. [02:57:28.253 – 02:57:32.572] A couple of disgruntled AA guys that just weren't getting what they needed went off and started Nar- Narcotics Anonymous. [02:57:32.572 – 02:57:33.423] Good for them. [02:57:33.423 – 02:57:34.443] By golly, that's great. [02:57:34.443 – 02:57:35.743] And they did that. [02:57:35.743 – 02:57:38.283] And so it was emerging. [02:57:38.283 – 02:57:41.843] And we– Back then, there was no raging controversy about singles or purpose. [02:57:41.843 – 02:57:47.083] And we– Back, back then, about all you had was horse junkies and, um, and, and prescription med guys. [02:57:47.083 – 02:57:50.103] Well, some of them not really prescription, but they would go for it.

[02:57:50.103 – 02:57:51.723] Anyway, it was just that kind of stuff. [02:57:51.723 – 02:57:54.283] It wasn't, wasn't like we got today with the circus of stuff. [02:57:54.283 – 02:58:02.903] And, uh, what, what we noticed in the group was that when w- when, when the alcoholics were talking, the horse junkies would doze off. [02:58:02.903 – 02:58:04.223] You know, they'd just sort of zone off. [02:58:04.223 – 02:58:07.743] And when they were talking, the alcoholics would just kind of nod out. [02:58:07.743 – 02:58:10.183] Well, it was kind of a, an exercise in futility. [02:58:10.183 – 02:58:11.423] What are we getting done?

[02:58:11.423 – 02:58:16.503] And so we decided to help start a group of Narcotics Anonymous. [02:58:16.503 – 02:58:19.563] As neighbors, not as members. [02:58:19.563 – 02:58:21.563] As neighbors. [02:58:21.563 – 02:58:28.743] And we started a group of Narcotics Anonymous, and that is forty-nine years ago, and that group still meets. [02:58:28.743 – 02:58:31.063] That's what I mean, a solution. [02:58:31.063 – 02:58:35.563] You know, if you think solution, it's amazing what you can do just by reaching out and doing something. [02:58:35.563 – 02:58:37.303] We had a little deal in our group. [02:58:37.303 – 02:58:42.343] And I'll spend just a little bit more time on this because, uh, it is a, a kind of a thorny issue.

[02:58:42.343 – 02:58:50.623] We, we had one night in a group I was in, a fella came to me and he said, "Tom, we need to have a group inventory." And I said, "That's an unusual request. [02:58:50.623 – 02:59:00.623] Why?" And he said, "Well, we got too many drug addicts in here." And I s- and I swear I get busy, and I'm– I thought I was fairly perceptive, but I hadn't really noticed what he was [02:59:00.623 – 02:59:01.483] talking about. [02:59:01.483 – 02:59:06.323] I said, "Well, let me take a look." And, and, and what it was, it's like it happens many, many places.

[02:59:06.323 – 02:59:11.093] Somebody had kind of a juvenile capturing agency for wayward youngsters. [02:59:11.093 – 02:59:17.603] And, uh, so they had a bunch cooped up over there, and they were hauling them over to our meeting. [02:59:17.603 – 02:59:24.403] Well, like my belief, like most of our wounds, they're self-imposed. [02:59:24.403 – 02:59:25.943] They're self-imposed. [02:59:25.943 – 02:59:27.603] Nobody did anything to us. [02:59:27.603 – 02:59:29.223] We did it to ourself. [02:59:29.223 – 02:59:32.193] And what we had done, nobody– there was no group, group, uh- [02:59:32.448 – 02:59:41.468] Vision, but what we'd done in our anxiety to make those youngsters feel welcome, was we'd get them to participate in a meeting, read stuff.

[02:59:41.468 – 02:59:46.268] We forgot a truism in AA, that AA meetings are conducted by A members. [02:59:46.268 – 02:59:49.348] Not for nice people under the heading of other. [02:59:49.348 – 02:59:51.188] They're, they're conducted by A members. [02:59:51.188 – 02:59:55.268] Well, those kids didn't know if they were alcoholics or goats, uh, by for God's sake. [02:59:55.268 – 02:59:58.168] They're kids, uh, and they didn't have a clue what they were. [02:59:58.168 – 03:00:03.608] And so I saw what the deal was and, and so we had a little, little meeting and, and, uh, just decided we'd try to deal with it.

[03:00:03.608 – 03:00:07.908] So they said, "Well, you'll get somebody to go over and meet with the director of that facility," and they asked me to do that job. [03:00:07.908 – 03:00:12.728] I said, "Okay, I'd be glad to." Went over, met with a lady, very nice young social work major, nice girl. [03:00:12.728 – 03:00:19.628] And so I told her what the problem was, and she said, "Well, I, I didn't know anything about that." And she said, "I don't know much about AA. [03:00:19.628 – 03:00:23.968] I didn't know you had such things as open and closed meetings." Well, how would she know?

[03:00:23.968 – 03:00:26.428] I mean, my God, they don't teach that in social work school. [03:00:26.428 – 03:00:30.908] You know, if we wanna have cooperative relationship with people, you gotta tell them what we do. [03:00:30.908 – 03:00:32.088] Nobody ever told her. [03:00:32.088 – 03:00:34.088] Just getting mad, throw bricks 'cause she doesn't know. [03:00:34.088 – 03:00:35.928] And so told her. [03:00:35.928 – 03:00:36.908] She said, "Yeah, okay. [03:00:36.908 – 03:00:38.928] We'll take care of that." Well, I knew better than that. [03:00:38.928 – 03:00:39.788] If you, you… [03:00:39.788 – 03:00:45.668] Having a gang of kids is about like trying to herd cats, and there's no way she gonna sort those folk out.

[03:00:45.668 – 03:00:47.348] And, uh, she gonna try, though. [03:00:47.348 – 03:00:48.328] I knew she would. [03:00:48.328 – 03:00:52.968] And but we did something that has become a staple of mine for the last thirty years. [03:00:52.968 – 03:00:59.708] We set up a newcomer meeting as an open meeting, meeting the same time as our regular meeting. [03:00:59.708 – 03:01:03.528] And that open meeting is just what it sounds like. [03:01:03.528 – 03:01:04.728] Anybody can come. [03:01:04.728 – 03:01:14.828] And what we found was that it immediately solved that problem, and it gave a reasonable kind of a place to, to sort out those uncertain

[03:01:14.828 – 03:01:16.668] feelings about whether you're a sheep or goat. [03:01:16.668 – 03:01:19.168] And, and so a tremendous asset. [03:01:19.168 – 03:01:23.568] I have not been in a group in the last thirty years where we haven't had a newcomer program. [03:01:23.568 – 03:01:25.088] Vital thing. [03:01:25.088 – 03:01:28.408] Last Monday night in my grou- in my home group, I'm … [03:01:28.408 – 03:01:30.128] It's a pleasant problem, but it's a problem. [03:01:30.128 – 03:01:33.128] We had forty people in a newcomer group. [03:01:33.128 – 03:01:35.928] What a wonderful problem. [03:01:35.928 – 03:01:39.328] They were double, double lapped around the, the room. [03:01:39.328 – 03:01:49.368] That's, and that sounds great, but I just stopped and talked to the chair of that committee and another guy, and I said, "That looks nice, but may I suggest to you that it is probably a worthless

[03:01:49.368 – 03:01:52.268] meeting." Because when it gets that big, it becomes almost pointless. [03:01:52.268 – 03:01:54.488] You know, you might as well just have a speaker meeting and call it that. [03:01:54.488 – 03:01:57.908] You know, you get away from this business of being able to get down on the barrelhead and work with people. [03:01:57.908 – 03:02:04.928] So our, our bunch is working on that as we speak of how we're gonna deal with that, so we can do effective work and not just look good. [03:02:04.928 – 03:02:07.128] And but it's, it's a simple thing, eh?

[03:02:07.128 – 03:02:17.328] It's just a matter of taking a problem, putting that brilliant alcoholic mind to work and say, "How can we do this better?" Instead of having brawls there and turning AA meetings into the Jerry Springer Show [03:02:17.328 – 03:02:19.768] of confrontation and all this junk. [03:02:19.768 – 03:02:23.958] You know, you know, if you think about it and realize that these folk are not trying to d-d… [03:02:23.958 – 03:02:26.108] They're just lost people. [03:02:26.108 – 03:02:31.778] And when somebody comes to our, into our doors, I don't care who he is, you know, unless he's coming in …

[03:02:31.778 – 03:02:33.708] Told you everything, remind me of something. [03:02:33.708 – 03:02:38.348] I'm working with a guy in Kenya right now, trying to get something going in, uh, down, down there. [03:02:38.348 – 03:02:44.008] And, uh, well, it's not funny, but he said they had an armed robbery. [03:02:44.008 – 03:02:48.408] A guy came in, no, more than one guy came in and robbed during the AA meeting. [03:02:48.408 – 03:02:51.368] Everybody lay down on the floor to get hands out, robbed them. [03:02:51.368 – 03:02:56.308] I didn't ask him, but I'm gonna ask him when I get back, "Did you resume the meeting?" You know?

[03:02:56.308 – 03:02:59.358] I mean, you gotta get your priorities out. [03:02:59.358 – 03:03:00.588] I mean, you know, that other's just money. [03:03:00.588 – 03:03:03.748] But, but anyway, there's some, there's some difficulties that come. [03:03:03.748 – 03:03:09.758] And, and so it's just, it's a matter of just taking a problem, and you can turn it into a real asset, you know. [03:03:09.758 – 03:03:12.288] And, and, and so things like that are simple. [03:03:12.288 – 03:03:14.748] And God knows it beats just giving up on the principle. [03:03:14.748 – 03:03:18.388] I, I'll tell you one last thing, and, and you've got to resolve it your own way.

[03:03:18.388 – 03:03:19.728] This is a huge problem. [03:03:19.728 – 03:03:21.988] It's a problem worldwide, not, not just here. [03:03:21.988 – 03:03:24.308] Worldwide. [03:03:24.308 – 03:03:28.508] And by the way, my impression is that it's fairly rampant in Phoenix. [03:03:28.508 – 03:03:31.068] That I haven't asked anybody, but I listened. [03:03:31.068 – 03:03:34.928] And when I listen to the language, I can understand what the activities are. [03:03:34.928 – 03:03:36.948] So it's, it's not an unknown here, I'll assure you that. [03:03:36.948 – 03:03:38.488] The, uh… [03:03:38.488 – 03:03:42.988] I know we read something profound, too. [03:03:42.988 – 03:03:44.118] I got … [03:03:44.118 – 03:03:45.168] It'll come back just a bit. [03:03:45.168 – 03:03:46.368] Oh, yeah.

[03:03:46.368 – 03:03:49.688] I, I'll tell you what I really believe has gotta happen. [03:03:49.688 – 03:03:51.108] Now, that's just one guy. [03:03:51.108 – 03:03:57.248] But I really believe that in some form or other, we're gonna have to do a worldwide group conscience about this thing. [03:03:57.248 – 03:04:07.208] I don't know how we'll do it or if we'll literally do that, but I think we're gonna have to do a real group conscience and get back to whether we really believe the bedrock principles this program was, was formed on.

[03:04:07.208 – 03:04:10.348] And, and I'll tell you what they are, at least in my judgment. [03:04:10.348 – 03:04:15.588] Remember back, I don't need to say to this crowd about remember back. [03:04:15.588 – 03:04:25.048] Remember back when, when, when Bob met in, met Bill, and they turned that fifteen minute into about six hours of sharing like alcoholics never had. [03:04:25.048 – 03:04:36.808] And when they got through with it, the physician said to the bankrupt stockbroker, "Finally, somebody understands." Well, [03:04:36.808 – 03:04:44.228] I don't know what your belief is, but my belief is that day, the basic tenet of Alcoholics Anonymous was formed.

[03:04:44.228 – 03:04:54.228] And this entire fellowship, including what we're doing here today, is predicated on the notion that when one alcoholic communicates with another alcoholic, there is a level [03:04:54.228 – 03:04:58.828] of understanding that's vitally important that occurs, and it doesn't happen anywhere else. [03:04:58.828 – 03:05:02.728] Well, that is either true or it's false. [03:05:02.728 – 03:05:12.808] And I think it is tremendously important that every one of us, every one of us, and the rest of us, by extension, every one of us has got [03:05:12.808 – 03:05:18.108] to search our conscience, uh, our, our conscience and, and, and, and satisfy, do you believe that?

[03:05:18.108 – 03:05:28.548] If you believe it, then I think we have a sacred duty to assure that that's offered to the next alcoholic who walks in that door, not some watered-down [03:05:28.548 – 03:05:30.228] facsimile of it. [03:05:30.228 – 03:05:32.788] If it isn't true, then it doesn't matter. [03:05:32.788 – 03:05:33.518] It doesn't matter. [03:05:33.518 – 03:05:34.544] Yeah. [03:05:34.544 – 03:05:36.324] But I think it matters a great deal. [03:05:36.324 – 03:05:40.304] And so whether we'll do anything, whether they'll vote in ADAC or not, I don't know. [03:05:40.304 – 03:05:44.744] You tell them how if they do, but, but huge problem. [03:05:44.744 – 03:05:48.484] And, and, and, and it's, and it's, and it's, it's a problem that's soluble, I, I believe.

[03:05:48.484 – 03:05:54.264] Fourth one is about behavior, I guess you could call it, that each group is autonomous. [03:05:54.264 – 03:05:55.684] I didn't– I wasn't sure what that meant. [03:05:55.684 – 03:06:06.184] The closest thing I could figure out it meant before I read anything, there was a, a transmission in the Oldsmobile automobile in the '50s that was called the auto- autonomous [03:06:06.184 – 03:06:08.244] transmission or something similar to that. [03:06:08.244 – 03:06:09.124] You remember? [03:06:09.124 – 03:06:09.944] You're thinking hard. [03:06:09.944 – 03:06:11.564] You remember what it is? [03:06:11.564 – 03:06:14.284] Something like a Hydramatic. [03:06:14.284 – 03:06:15.984] Hydramatic, that's it. [03:06:15.984 – 03:06:18.083] Well, it sounded like autonomous to me.

[03:06:18.083 – 03:06:20.344] That's all I could think of. [03:06:20.344 – 03:06:22.944] And but each group is autonomous. [03:06:22.944 – 03:06:28.124] Each member is autonomous, except in matters affecting other groups or other members or A as a whole. [03:06:28.124 – 03:06:29.344] I'm an autonomous member. [03:06:29.344 – 03:06:29.924] So are you. [03:06:29.924 – 03:06:39.064] I am totally free to practice AA any way I wanna do it, as long as I don't interfere with your right to do the same. [03:06:39.064 – 03:06:45.344] But when I start to interfere with your right, then I am imposing on the privilege I'm given.

[03:06:45.344 – 03:06:50.544] And so it's freedom, of course it is, but it's freedom with responsibility. [03:06:50.544 – 03:06:56.944] I'm free to act, but I'm responsible to act in keeping with all our principles, and I think it's a vitally important thing. [03:06:56.944 – 03:06:59.324] It has to do with how we handle ourselves in, in meetings. [03:06:59.324 – 03:07:03.284] Let me– I'll give you a, just a couple things. [03:07:03.284 – 03:07:06.224] I, and, well, I'll give you one. [03:07:06.224 – 03:07:07.454] Why is it important? [03:07:07.454 – 03:07:09.204] Now, I'm not a goody two-shoes. [03:07:09.204 – 03:07:12.124] I, I'm a pretty clean fella, but I'm not a goody two-shoes.

[03:07:12.124 – 03:07:14.724] I'm not offended if somebody's gonna tell some off-color joke. [03:07:14.724 – 03:07:18.844] I'm not extended, not incensed if they use bad language. [03:07:18.844 – 03:07:24.084] I don't care for it from the podium at all, and I don't do it at the podium. [03:07:24.084 – 03:07:27.824] I don't do it anywhere, as a matter of fact, but it's just my own principles, my own belief. [03:07:27.824 – 03:07:30.884] And, uh, so but, but it's free. [03:07:30.884 – 03:07:32.504] But it's free within limits. [03:07:32.504 – 03:07:34.714] And I'll tell you one reason why I think it's so important.

[03:07:34.714 – 03:07:38.684] I was in a, in a little… [03:07:38.684 – 03:07:45.924] And they had a, they had a fellow speaking on Saturday night that I've never seen before nor since, and, and quite honestly, I'm kinda glad of it. [03:07:45.924 – 03:07:53.644] But this guy, somebody plucked him out from somewhere and had him down there speaking at Saturday, on Saturday night at that little conference. [03:07:53.644 – 03:07:59.364] Well, I don't think he'd done much of that, and he thought he was supposed to be a stand-up comic, a, a wing.

[03:07:59.364 – 03:08:01.344] But he wasn't funny. [03:08:01.344 – 03:08:04.364] I mean, and you know how it is when you're going down the sewer? [03:08:04.364 – 03:08:05.344] You, you're gonna paddle hard. [03:08:05.344 – 03:08:06.544] You're gonna try to stay out of it. [03:08:06.544 – 03:08:07.444] And that's what he did. [03:08:07.444 – 03:08:09.964] The more he tried, the worse he got. [03:08:09.964 – 03:08:15.204] Then he just got vulgar and obscene and, and, and Jesus, it just, it gruesome. [03:08:15.204 – 03:08:23.144] And I was sitting right behind, just like where you stood, I was sitting right behind the, the lady who invited the speakers, including him.

[03:08:23.144 – 03:08:26.524] And there was a guy sitting right beside her. [03:08:26.524 – 03:08:30.284] I assumed it was her husband, but assumptions are not always wise. [03:08:30.284 – 03:08:40.804] And I, I was fascinated with that guy's neck because as that fella went further down the sewer, this guy's neck was just steadily turning red, [03:08:40.804 – 03:08:43.544] and his ears were glowing by the time the guy finally quit. [03:08:43.544 – 03:08:44.514] I mean, he didn't ever finish. [03:08:44.514 – 03:08:47.404] He just quit and got a standing ovation for quitting. [03:08:47.404 – 03:08:57.964] And, and, and, uh, so afterward, I, I caught that lady and I said, "Don't mean to pry, but

[03:08:57.964 – 03:09:06.524] I don't think the fella sitting beside you was overly enthused about that speaker tonight." And she said, "Tom, you will never know how humiliated I was. [03:09:06.524 – 03:09:09.404] I've never been more embarrassed in my life." Wasn't her husband. [03:09:09.404 – 03:09:10.944] That was her pastor. [03:09:10.944 – 03:09:19.724] At the first AA meeting he had ever attended, and I will absolutely guarantee you the last AA meeting he has ever attended. [03:09:19.724 – 03:09:25.004] Now, whether he attends meetings or not i-is not overly tragic. [03:09:25.004 – 03:09:33.904] I mean, it is tragic, but the average minister will see more alcoholics in crisis than you or I in the next year.

[03:09:33.904 – 03:09:38.304] And I'll guarantee you, that fella wouldn't send a– He would send him to hell quicker than he would to Alcoholics Anonymous. [03:09:38.304 – 03:09:40.124] What a disservice, eh? [03:09:40.124 – 03:09:46.864] One guy exercising his freedom, and how much damage is done with this ill-timed, ill-placed… [03:09:46.864 – 03:09:48.244] And I think it's always ill-placed. [03:09:48.244 – 03:09:55.824] When you're talking about a spiritual program and you try to share it with a bunch of off-the-wall stuff, I mean, it just doesn't make sense. [03:09:55.824 – 03:10:05.864] And, uh, so anyway, I, I think that's what autonomy, a-and whether it's individual or group, you know, my group, and I, I'm not real crazy about saying I don't belong to

[03:10:05.864 – 03:10:05.944] the- [03:10:06.134 – 03:10:06.694] Group in the world. [03:10:06.694 – 03:10:08.894] I belong to a good solid A group. [03:10:08.894 – 03:10:11.494] Not better than other groups, it's a good solid group. [03:10:11.494 – 03:10:19.084] It meets the needs of, of the people we, that, that, that, that we have, and it does a good credible job in, in doing service all over our, our part of the state. [03:10:19.084 – 03:10:20.574] So it's a, it's a good group. [03:10:20.574 – 03:10:24.954] But it's not the best group in the world, it just happens to fit that peculiar bunch who, who are there.

[03:10:24.954 – 03:10:27.854] And it's, and it's locked in to, to A principles 100%. [03:10:27.854 – 03:10:29.824] But that's just the way we are, you know? [03:10:29.824 – 03:10:33.734] And every group is free to develop as they wish as long as they don't screw it up for other people. [03:10:33.734 – 03:10:38.653] I don't like saying best group in the world because that casts aspersions whether they intend to or not on the group next door. [03:10:38.653 – 03:10:42.234] And the way I think a- think about it, we're no better than how we treat our neighbors.

[03:10:42.234 – 03:10:45.174] It's not enough to just have a good group, it's what kind of a neighbor are we? [03:10:45.174 – 03:10:50.114] How, what do we do to lend support and encouragement to other people around our area? [03:10:50.114 – 03:10:52.434] So it's, it's a very challenging thing. [03:10:52.434 – 03:10:53.654] This is about our primaries. [03:10:53.654 – 03:10:57.754] Fifth one, they're not putting the chicken on yet, but they're getting ready. [03:10:57.754 – 03:10:59.614] Wing is on the way. [03:10:59.614 – 03:11:03.474] You ought to get here to tell you about wing. [03:11:03.474 – 03:11:04.434] I won't take time. [03:11:04.434 – 03:11:07.014] Other one, the, the fifth one is about our, our purpose.

[03:11:07.014 – 03:11:11.133] Each group has but one primary purpose: to carry this message to alcoholic still sufferers. [03:11:11.133 – 03:11:12.214] That's, that's why we're here. [03:11:12.214 – 03:11:14.184] That's why we hold international conventions. [03:11:14.184 – 03:11:15.814] Every time we meet, it's for that purpose. [03:11:15.814 – 03:11:17.914] If it's for anything else, it's off task. [03:11:17.914 – 03:11:20.574] Every time we meet, it's about that primary purpose. [03:11:20.574 – 03:11:24.974] And, and, and so I always like to keep that clear. [03:11:24.974 – 03:11:27.194] I have but one primary purpose. [03:11:27.194 – 03:11:30.114] Now, I do a lot of stuff, but I've got one primary purpose.

[03:11:30.114 – 03:11:35.294] My primary purpose is to carry this message to the alcoholic still sufferer. [03:11:35.294 – 03:11:42.114] It, it says it in a different way that, that my real purpose is to b- be, fit myself to be of maximum service that God knows about us. [03:11:42.114 – 03:11:43.684] And, and so that is what this is about. [03:11:43.684 – 03:11:49.994] It's how to get myself spiritually fit to be an instrument, to be of some real useful purpose in this world. [03:11:49.994 – 03:11:51.934] And, uh, I'll, I'll tell you a thing that happened.

[03:11:51.934 – 03:11:52.964] I, I… [03:11:52.964 – 03:11:59.674] Our book says it one way where it says so many– I can't quote anything exactly right, but, uh, but you know what I'm talking about. [03:11:59.674 – 03:12:06.294] It says, "Our dark history can become one of our greatest tools for helping others." That's so true, eh? [03:12:06.294 – 03:12:07.094] So true. [03:12:07.094 – 03:12:16.573] I had a secretary one time when I was employed that she gave me one of those little old, you know those little old things you put on the wall, tell you how to live in six words, you know, and all that stuff.

[03:12:16.573 – 03:12:20.414] And she gave me one that really struck me the minute I saw it. [03:12:20.414 – 03:12:29.614] It said essentially that, "Life breaks us all sometimes." And God, do we know that, eh? [03:12:29.614 – 03:12:31.974] "Life breaks us all sometimes. [03:12:31.974 – 03:12:39.434] But we often grow back strongest at the place we were broken." Now, that was profound to me. [03:12:39.434 – 03:12:40.634] That was profound. [03:12:40.634 – 03:12:43.634] That's what the book said about the dark past becoming our greatest asset. [03:12:43.634 – 03:12:51.134] That m- many people who are disabled come back stronger than ever because they grow back and develop strengths and abilities they didn't have before.

[03:12:51.134 – 03:13:01.134] So there's nothing all that dramatically new about that, but that just really brought that home to me that the greatest gift that I have to offer to anybody is [03:13:01.134 – 03:13:03.614] to share with them where I was broken and healed. [03:13:03.614 – 03:13:07.354] And it's not philosophy or how cute or colorful I am. [03:13:07.354 – 03:13:15.514] It's, it's about sharing honestly about where I, where I was broken and life came back together for me. [03:13:15.514 – 03:13:17.554] And, and that's the most powerful thing I'll ever have.

[03:13:17.554 – 03:13:20.834] And that's useful, and God knows so many ways, so many ways. [03:13:20.834 – 03:13:25.074] You know, that I'm a deeply spiritual guy and, and, but I'm not a, a… [03:13:25.074 – 03:13:29.894] I, I might go to ch- a church if I would, but every Sunday of my life, I'm doing something like this. [03:13:29.894 – 03:13:31.974] So, uh, I'm not sure I wouldn't go. [03:13:31.974 – 03:13:32.924] I might go if I could. [03:13:32.924 – 03:13:35.814] I belong to a church. [03:13:35.814 – 03:13:37.334] They, they don't really know it. [03:13:37.334 – 03:13:39.024] But we- … [03:13:39.024 – 03:13:41.934] we, we, we send them money every once in a while, and they'll, uh…

[03:13:41.934 – 03:13:45.374] Every once in a while a minister will come see me and, and say, "Well, we just want to see who it is. [03:13:45.374 – 03:13:50.354] We hear from you, but we don't ever see you." And, uh , so I'm Methodist, and so they change a lot. [03:13:50.354 – 03:13:51.634] Man, they rotate more than we do. [03:13:51.634 – 03:13:59.294] And, uh, so every time I get to do it, he'll come over and kind of awkwardly go through this thing of, "Well, how come we don't ever see you?" And then I tell him what I do.

[03:13:59.294 – 03:14:05.384] I have never had a single one to say anything less than, "Go get 'em. [03:14:05.384 – 03:14:14.074] Go get 'em." 'Cause in my own kind of way, I'm doing the same thing he's doing, is trying to reach people who broke at where I was. [03:14:14.074 – 03:14:16.534] So primary purpose. [03:14:16.534 – 03:14:21.534] That's a strong, strong thing that, that really guides me and, and it's uppermost in my mind. [03:14:21.534 – 03:14:26.414] It doesn't mean that I'm, that I'm, that I'm absolutely obsessed with thinking about nothing but alcoholic.

[03:14:26.414 – 03:14:29.914] It's to be of maximum service to people around me, whoever they might be. [03:14:29.914 – 03:14:32.794] I'll just tell you one little story, I don't think I'll have time to do it later. [03:14:32.794 – 03:14:38.174] I, I fly a lot and I, I have a lot of experiences on planes. [03:14:38.174 – 03:14:41.854] Once in a while it's unpleasant, but most times bad news. [03:14:41.854 – 03:14:50.634] And I was, uh, we're landing somewhere and the guy sitting beside me, I don't usually try to meddle in folk's business, but I was watching this young fella.

[03:14:50.634 – 03:14:52.294] He was a young, yuppie salesman type guy. [03:14:52.294 – 03:14:54.434] And, and so I watched his hands. [03:14:54.434 – 03:14:55.334] You talk about white-knuckling. [03:14:55.334 – 03:14:58.274] That guy gripped those armrests, I mean, death grip. [03:14:58.274 – 03:15:00.214] It's just knuckles are white. [03:15:00.214 – 03:15:02.914] Well, I thought, you know, do I give him some privacy? [03:15:02.914 – 03:15:03.914] Do I just butt in? [03:15:03.914 – 03:15:10.914] I said, "Ah, shoot, I think I'll butt in." So I said, I said, "Rough, ain't it?" And he said, "God knows, man. [03:15:10.914 – 03:15:19.554] You don't know." He said, "I don't know what's happened to me, but I am so terrified every time I take off or land that I am scared to death.

[03:15:19.554 – 03:15:21.034] And I travel for a living. [03:15:21.034 – 03:15:22.134] I have to travel. [03:15:22.134 – 03:15:23.854] And it's the only way I can't drive. [03:15:23.854 – 03:15:31.514] I've got to fly." He said, "I don't know what to do." Well, now I don't mind fudging on the truth if it has a spiritual objective. [03:15:31.514 – 03:15:35.454] And so I wasn't lying, but I was just kind of fudging a little. [03:15:35.454 – 03:15:45.594] I, I said to him, that had a shred of truth in it, I said, "You know, I used to have that problem." I didn't tell him that it was only one time and it lasted about ten

[03:15:45.594 – 03:15:46.074] seconds. [03:15:46.074 – 03:15:48.274] I mean, I had the problem. [03:15:48.274 – 03:15:49.474] It doesn't matter how big it was. [03:15:49.474 – 03:15:50.914] I had the same problem he did. [03:15:50.914 – 03:15:51.914] Ten seconds. [03:15:51.914 – 03:16:01.094] And he said, "What did you do?" And I said, "Well, I just kind of gave it a little thought to it and I figured that guy driving's gonna hit it before he hit it before I do. [03:16:01.094 – 03:16:05.674] So he's gonna look out for himself and maybe he'll look out for me." And I told him that, and that was just pragmatic stuff.

[03:16:05.674 – 03:16:16.642] And then I said, "I belong to a program and we use a prayer that I have found to be tremendously effective." And he said, "What is it?" [03:16:16.642 – 03:16:18.522] I said, and I told him, wondered if we'd know it. [03:16:18.522 – 03:16:22.072] I said, "Serenity Prayer." He said, "How does it go?" And so I recited the Serenity Prayer. [03:16:22.072 – 03:16:24.182] He said, "Wait a minute," and he grabbed the paper. [03:16:24.182 – 03:16:28.022] He, he said, "Say that again." And so he wrote down that Serenity Prayer.

[03:16:28.022 – 03:16:34.062] Now, I don't know whether that did anything or not, but the point is, I was able to share something with another human. [03:16:34.062 – 03:16:35.362] Who knows? [03:16:35.362 – 03:16:36.782] It ma-made a difference to me. [03:16:36.782 – 03:16:38.882] Yeah, so I think that's what that's about. [03:16:38.882 – 03:16:41.721] Six is about stuff. [03:16:41.721 – 03:16:44.482] Yeah, and stuff, stuff can eat you alive if you don't watch it. [03:16:44.482 – 03:16:54.782] It's, um, an A group or an A member ought never endorse financial lendee named any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, prestige

[03:16:54.782 – 03:16:57.142] divert us from our primary purpose. [03:16:57.142 – 03:17:00.012] You ever had seen anybody that had too much money? [03:17:00.012 – 03:17:06.162] For whom the mo-money was a, a tyrannical owner, the money owned them? [03:17:06.162 – 03:17:06.882] You ever seen that? [03:17:06.882 – 03:17:10.242] I sponsored some guys like that, and it's a huge challenge. [03:17:10.242 – 03:17:12.922] I used to tell them to solve it by giving me the money. [03:17:12.922 – 03:17:14.442] But no, I don't either. [03:17:14.442 – 03:17:16.142] They, they putting that problem on me. [03:17:16.142 – 03:17:17.802] But, but it is. [03:17:17.802 – 03:17:25.062] It's something that can really, really be a, a, a tremendous thing to work with and can just eat you flat alive with, with what it does.

[03:17:25.062 – 03:17:27.402] A, a couple of examples on that thing. [03:17:27.402 – 03:17:32.202] That one, I was– Now, I was blessed, a peculiar kind of blessing. [03:17:32.202 – 03:17:36.502] I was blessed with having lived considerable periods of my time with nothing. [03:17:36.502 – 03:17:40.162] I learned that you can, in fact, get by on nothing. [03:17:40.162 – 03:17:46.942] And, uh, I mean, if you're not– don't have too many scruples and moral constraints, you can get by, you know, and, uh, somebody may have to pay for it. [03:17:46.942 – 03:17:48.822] But anyway, you, you can survive.

[03:17:48.822 – 03:17:51.262] And, uh, there's a great blessing in that. [03:17:51.262 – 03:17:57.722] And the blessing is that from the day I came into Alcoholics Anonymous till this day, I have never had a financial problem. [03:17:57.722 – 03:17:58.942] Never. [03:17:58.942 – 03:18:02.782] Now, I've been broke, but that's not a financial problem. [03:18:02.782 – 03:18:06.442] That was a lack of financial problem if I, if I let it be. [03:18:06.442 – 03:18:07.362] But it's not. [03:18:07.362 – 03:18:08.882] If it's broke, I just gotta get some more money. [03:18:08.882 – 03:18:09.422] Yeah. [03:18:09.422 – 03:18:11.302] And so I just don't buy anything if I'm broke.

[03:18:11.302 – 03:18:12.362] Yeah, I learned that. [03:18:12.362 – 03:18:16.602] That was a very practical kind of a lesson in life, that, that I really don't have to have stuff. [03:18:16.602 – 03:18:20.542] And so I've never had a problem with that, never had a financial problem. [03:18:20.542 – 03:18:25.062] And so that's a, a weird blessing, but it, but it's a very important blessing. [03:18:25.062 – 03:18:29.182] I-I'll give to you a couple of things that just kinda… [03:18:29.182 – 03:18:31.682] Yeah, I told you I use traditions in, in everything that I do. [03:18:31.682 – 03:18:33.022] And I do.

[03:18:33.022 – 03:18:33.782] I use it in my family. [03:18:33.782 – 03:18:35.382] I, I'll just give you one example of that. [03:18:35.382 – 03:18:45.522] We like– Uh, I know we're not the only family in the world does it, but we were a family that fell into this thing of, of sort of trying to prove to each other at Christmastime how much we loved each other [03:18:45.522 – 03:18:48.342] by giving a bunch of stupid gifts that nobody wanted. [03:18:48.342 – 03:18:53.242] And so we spent inordinate amounts of money trying to gush love on folks.

[03:18:53.242 – 03:18:55.562] Well, I didn't like that. [03:18:55.562 – 03:18:56.382] I didn't like it. [03:18:56.382 – 03:19:00.041] I put up with it for years, just being the su– long-suffering peacemaker. [03:19:00.041 – 03:19:01.522] But I didn't like that. [03:19:01.522 – 03:19:04.892] And I would say, "Ho, ho, ho," but I didn't mean it. [03:19:04.892 – 03:19:06.902] You know, I mean, I flat just didn't like what we've done. [03:19:06.902 – 03:19:16.922] So one day, I, I said, "Why don't we have a little meeting and talk about this Christmas thing?" And so we had a little– Now, my, my family knows what I'm talking about

[03:19:16.922 – 03:19:17.842] when we talk about traditions. [03:19:17.842 – 03:19:19.872] And this is one we talked about. [03:19:19.872 – 03:19:24.402] Problems of money, property, and prestige divert us from our primary spiritual aim. [03:19:24.402 – 03:19:29.162] They– Those exorbitant gifts are not a substitute for love. [03:19:29.162 – 03:19:30.592] Not. [03:19:30.592 – 03:19:34.702] Uh, and what they were was just a sort of a, a prostitution of the, the word. [03:19:34.702 – 03:19:39.942] And so I opened it up by just sort of sharing a little bit about how I felt. [03:19:39.942 – 03:19:42.382] Would you believe out of– There are only four in my immediate family.

[03:19:42.382 – 03:19:45.662] Out of four people, not a single one liked it. [03:19:45.662 – 03:19:48.422] But we all did it as if we loved it. [03:19:48.422 – 03:19:53.522] My wife, I thought she was absolutely the commander-in-chief of that whole parade. [03:19:53.522 – 03:19:56.362] She despised it. [03:19:56.362 – 03:20:03.812] And so we said, "Well, why are we doing this, eh?" It's so easy to get off base in thinking you're gonna buy your way to something. [03:20:03.812 – 03:20:06.302] And all we were doing was screwing it up. [03:20:06.302 – 03:20:08.622] So we just made a decision we wouldn't do that anymore.

[03:20:08.622 – 03:20:10.902] And so we put a fifty, fifty-dollar max on any gift. [03:20:10.902 – 03:20:13.532] And, and, and that don't mean double it up and give nine gifts. [03:20:13.532 – 03:20:14.762] Put a max on it. [03:20:14.762 – 03:20:19.342] And then we decided to take the money we've been wasting and adopt a family. [03:20:19.342 – 03:20:20.962] And so that's what we do. [03:20:20.962 – 03:20:24.402] Every Christmas, we adopt a family. [03:20:24.402 – 03:20:25.562] We don't know, don't need to. [03:20:25.562 – 03:20:27.382] But we know people who know 'em. [03:20:27.382 – 03:20:29.002] And so we find that family. [03:20:29.002 – 03:20:34.772] Uh, last year, we had a, a, a very wonderful, um, uh, Mexican fella, been in this country forty-five years.

[03:20:34.772 – 03:20:35.762] Fine man. [03:20:35.762 – 03:20:38.282] A, A member for several years. [03:20:38.282 – 03:20:39.652] Anyway, it was a long story. [03:20:39.780 – 03:20:43.920] But he got really tangled up in a whole bunch of stuff and wound up with eight kids and nothing to go on. [03:20:43.920 – 03:20:50.840] And my wife said, "Why don't we make Miguel's family the one this year?" Hey, girl, there's hope for you. [03:20:50.840 – 03:20:55.520] There is ho– even Al-Anons catch on to this stuff, and that's what we did. [03:20:55.520 – 03:20:56.980] W-wonderful time. [03:20:56.980 – 03:20:58.220] So simple thing, eh? [03:20:58.220 – 03:21:04.240] But you get caught up in this thing of just pouring money into something as if that had meaning.

[03:21:04.240 – 03:21:10.160] You know, as if that was gonna add weight and purpose to that, and all it was doing was just skewing the whole deal. [03:21:10.160 – 03:21:14.880] And, and so th– And I'll tell you one other thing about that one, and then, then, then, then I'll hurry. [03:21:14.880 – 03:21:16.500] I'm already hurrying. [03:21:16.500 – 03:21:17.440] Just doesn't sound like it. [03:21:17.440 – 03:21:18.960] The, uh… [03:21:18.960 – 03:21:23.460] Had a guy– Just tell you what, what this'll do when that, it, it sort of takes your mind. [03:21:23.460 – 03:21:27.880] Had a guy that asked me one time if I'd speak at his anniversary, and I said, "Sure, you just give me a call.

[03:21:27.880 – 03:21:31.300] If I can, I'll do it." He said, "Okay." Had three years coming up. [03:21:31.300 – 03:21:34.620] And so he called me and he said, "Okay, got it all set. [03:21:34.620 – 03:21:36.920] Here's the date." And I said, "I'm sorry, I can't do it on that date. [03:21:36.920 – 03:21:43.000] I've got a commitment." He said, "You told me you'd come." "I didn't say I had my whole calendar available to you, turkey. [03:21:43.000 – 03:21:53.180] I said I'd come if I could, and I can't do it." He said, "Well, you've got to come." And I said, "Well, I can't come." Now, I had a commitment, and, you know, some people think all I do is say, "Hey," but I had a commitment with my

[03:21:53.180 – 03:22:03.280] son that he was in the championship deal of that thing where the father makes a little old car, and then the son races it and then takes credit, [03:22:03.280 – 03:22:03.590] you know? [03:22:03.590 – 03:22:09.520] And, so we had a car, and I had committed to my son, I'm going with him, take him to the state finals. [03:22:09.520 – 03:22:10.640] Well, that's a commitment. [03:22:10.640 – 03:22:14.440] And, uh, so I told the guy, I said, "I'm sorry, I can't do it. [03:22:14.440 – 03:22:24.440] I'm, I'm gonna be tied up, and I, and I just will not be able to." He said, "Well, let me see what I can do." And I said, "Go at it." And so he called me back and he said, "Can you be at the Southern Pines

[03:22:24.440 – 03:22:27.280] Airport at six o'clock?" And I said… [03:22:27.280 – 03:22:28.650] I told him what my schedule was. [03:22:28.650 – 03:22:30.540] And he s– I said, "Yeah, I can be there at six o'clock. [03:22:30.540 – 03:22:34.950] Why?" And he said, "Don't worry about it, just come on." Well, you wanna see something get blown out of proportion. [03:22:34.950 – 03:22:39.080] Pulled up– This was before security set in real big time. [03:22:39.080 – 03:22:41.400] And so I pulled up to the airport, and the doors were open. [03:22:41.400 – 03:22:44.180] And I went through, it looked like the president's going through, you know?

[03:22:44.180 – 03:22:45.260] They already had the doors open. [03:22:45.260 – 03:22:49.100] They take me right through the airport, right onto that, uh, the helicopter sitting out there. [03:22:49.100 – 03:22:56.760] I thought, "God knows." So I get on this stupid thing, and it's like riding a pogo stick down to the next state. [03:22:56.760 – 03:22:58.200] Bloompty, bloompty, bloompty. [03:22:58.200 – 03:22:59.440] And we got there. [03:22:59.440 – 03:23:01.200] I was still shaking when I got to the podium. [03:23:01.200 – 03:23:02.320] I was just rattling the podium. [03:23:02.320 – 03:23:05.719] And I thought, "Jesus, how'd I get into this stuff?" And we started back.

[03:23:05.719 – 03:23:07.720] They, they had crashed the stupid helicopter. [03:23:07.720 – 03:23:08.420] And it… [03:23:08.420 – 03:23:09.529] Well, anyway, long story. [03:23:09.529 – 03:23:10.480] They finally got me back. [03:23:10.480 – 03:23:12.120] We got back to the airport. [03:23:12.120 – 03:23:15.380] I was already pretty frosty about the whole deal that… [03:23:15.380 – 03:23:21.480] And, uh, I got off the plane, and he handed me a, an envelope, kinda like you did, only there wasn't nothing in yours, I'll tell you. [03:23:21.480 – 03:23:25.080] But this, this one, guy handed me a, a card. [03:23:25.080 – 03:23:30.320] I said, "What's that?" And he says, "Just a little, uh, thank you note." And I said, "Okay, fine." Stuck it in my, uh, coat pocket and walked off.

[03:23:30.320 – 03:23:33.100] Got home, opened it up, and it had a wad of money in it. [03:23:33.100 – 03:23:37.809] And I called that dude right back, right then, and I said, "Let me tell you something, buddy. [03:23:37.809 – 03:23:40.060] We don't do this in AA. [03:23:40.060 – 03:23:42.600] This thing's not for sale. [03:23:42.600 – 03:23:44.320] And I'm gonna send that money back. [03:23:44.320 – 03:23:48.180] I don't care what you do with it, but don't you ever send anything to me like that again." Stuck it back. [03:23:48.180 – 03:23:50.200] And so, but you see what's happening? [03:23:50.200 – 03:23:54.960] You know, here's a guy that just had to have it his way, at whatever cost.

[03:23:54.960 – 03:23:56.460] He's gonna have to have it. [03:23:56.460 – 03:24:01.280] And I don't imagine it would shock the life out of you to know that that was the last anniversary we ever celebrated. [03:24:01.280 – 03:24:07.300] Of course you're not gonna stay sober with that kind of wild kind of stuff, and I think that's the principle of this thing. [03:24:07.300 – 03:24:13.420] If I let money, property, prestige own my mind, my spiritual purpose is shot. [03:24:13.420 – 03:24:17.140] So I think that's the real, real concern about that, that kind of thing.

[03:24:17.140 – 03:24:23.740] Seventh one was also about money, but a little different aspect, that every group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside co-co-contribution. [03:24:23.740 – 03:24:28.570] And that's, uh, I wish that was a principle that was in place in Alcoholics Anonymous. [03:24:28.570 – 03:24:31.000] The principle is in place, but the practice is not. [03:24:31.000 – 03:24:34.560] We have never been self-supporting one day in our history. [03:24:34.560 – 03:24:36.860] I wish it weren't so, but it is. [03:24:36.860 – 03:24:39.640] If, if it weren't for literature sales, we would be bankrupt today. [03:24:39.640 – 03:24:47.680] And so we, we're, we're, we, we, we've got a, a lofty principle, but when you look at it in real life, we just don't deliver on the principle.

[03:24:47.680 – 03:24:52.360] I think a lot of it is out of ignorance and, and just simply not understanding what, what the, what, what it's about. [03:24:52.360 – 03:24:56.719] Most of the time we do a collection, just say we have no dues or fees, but we're gonna pass this basket. [03:24:56.719 – 03:24:57.760] Well, what's it for? [03:24:57.760 – 03:25:01.529] Now, and you have many, many people have no clue what, what, what… [03:25:01.529 – 03:25:04.740] I'll tell you a real q-quick thing about, I mentioned about the guy in Kenya. [03:25:04.740 – 03:25:11.800] They're one of the finest examples I've seen of how the, the, the resources generate into action and, and how our general service office works.

[03:25:11.800 – 03:25:21.700] I got a call from, from the office, a guy up there on the international desk, and, uh, he told me that he'd been doing a little, little stuff on the phone with a guy in Kenya who wanted to get something going, had a real interest to get something going in correction. [03:25:21.700 – 03:25:26.760] And so he, he said, "O-okay, we'll try to help." Now, he did exactly what a staff member ought to do. [03:25:26.760 – 03:25:30.880] He answered the guy, sent him email, and mailed him material.

[03:25:30.880 – 03:25:34.620] That's why we donate money, so we can respond to that kind of request. [03:25:34.620 – 03:25:37.000] So he sent him material, exactly what he's supposed to do. [03:25:37.000 – 03:25:45.330] And then he got on the phone and called, and he thought about, "Now, who do I know that might be interested in, in helping somebody with corrections?" He said, "Oh, I know a guy." And so he called me. [03:25:45.330 – 03:25:53.140] He said, "Would you be willing?" I said, "Well, I don't speak Swahili, but I, I'd be glad to do whatever I can." And he said, "Well, this guy speaks great English." And he does, better than me.

[03:25:53.140 – 03:25:55.730] And, um, now that's exactly the way it ought to work. [03:25:55.730 – 03:26:01.440] We sent that money into that office so that our staff is equipped to respond and send material. [03:26:01.440 – 03:26:02.100] And then they call. [03:26:02.100 – 03:26:03.200] They don't do service. [03:26:03.200 – 03:26:07.640] What they do is fill that request, and then they call somebody to do service. [03:26:07.640 – 03:26:09.690] And, and what a great opportunity, eh? [03:26:09.690 – 03:26:13.060] To, to work with somebody in a nation, thirty million people in that nation. [03:26:13.060 – 03:26:15.280] Twenty-eight million o-of them don't live in Nairobi.

[03:26:15.280 – 03:26:16.400] Two million do. [03:26:16.400 – 03:26:17.980] The only A's are in Nairobi. [03:26:17.980 – 03:26:25.600] So you're talking about a vast territory with a huge population, and AA is zilch anywhere but Nairobi. [03:26:25.600 – 03:26:28.940] That's the place that was robbed, that I told you about, and they're still going. [03:26:28.940 – 03:26:31.930] But I am gonna find out if they finish that meeting, 'cause I'd be troubled if they didn't. [03:26:31.930 – 03:26:33.640] Money. [03:26:33.640 – 03:26:35.640] I'll tell you another thing about… [03:26:35.640 – 03:26:40.220] The– M-money, there's a lot of dignity in, in, in, in, in that business.

[03:26:40.220 – 03:26:45.040] You know, my personal code is that I want to contribute at least as much as I consume. [03:26:45.040 – 03:26:53.699] Now that's a rough calculation, but I know that I'm gonna suck up a c- a certain amount of power that we're using in this room, certain amount of air conditioning, and that kind of stuff, the coffee. [03:26:53.699 – 03:26:55.820] I wanna contribute as much as I consume. [03:26:55.820 – 03:26:58.940] And then if I want to contribute to service, I contribute a little bit more. [03:26:58.940 – 03:27:03.179] And so I have an amount that I contribute to my group, uh, every month.

[03:27:03.179 – 03:27:05.570] I write a check, and I don't have to worry about whether I got money in my pocket or not. [03:27:05.570 – 03:27:07.360] I just write a check for the amount, then I'm done. [03:27:07.360 – 03:27:10.740] Then I'll throw a little something in other people's po- uh, the baskets when I go. [03:27:10.740 – 03:27:12.100] But that's, that's me. [03:27:12.100 – 03:27:15.980] I, that's what I wanna do as a, as a, as a personal commitment that I, that I do. [03:27:15.980 – 03:27:26.200] And, um, and I believe it's vital, you know, that I had, uh, I just met Wednesday before I left with, with a, a group of guys in a prison,

[03:27:26.200 – 03:27:36.420] and we spent almost an hour talking about the value of self-support, not so much to pay bills, but to build dignity by, by stopping ripping people off, [03:27:36.420 – 03:27:40.140] looking for somebody, somebody else to handle my responsibility. [03:27:40.140 – 03:27:43.020] A huge amount of dignity comes from carrying your own weight. [03:27:43.020 – 03:27:49.980] And those guys, when I left, we broke up the meeting, we're trying to figure out how we could calculate the power bill for the building we were meeting at. [03:27:49.980 – 03:27:51.560] I said, "Well, get one of the math guys.

[03:27:51.560 – 03:27:52.400] I don't know anything about that. [03:27:52.400 – 03:27:57.160] And if they do, I'll find a way to get that money contributed." But anyway, this, it's a very important thing. [03:27:57.160 – 03:27:57.980] I'll tell you one story. [03:27:57.980 – 03:27:59.400] I, I won't name the state. [03:27:59.400 – 03:28:00.890] I wouldn't dare mention it was California. [03:28:00.890 – 03:28:10.890] But they're such humble people there that- I, I got a call a [03:28:10.890 – 03:28:21.130] while back from a f- a fella, wanted me to come out there and do something at a prison, and also at three towns that surrounded that, the prison, right in the immediate

[03:28:21.130 – 03:28:21.340] area. [03:28:21.340 – 03:28:25.200] And I said, "Okay, that sounds fine." And, uh, and, and the date was okay. [03:28:25.200 – 03:28:25.640] I could do it. [03:28:25.640 – 03:28:26.760] And, and so we set it up. [03:28:26.760 – 03:28:33.920] And, and when I'm getting ready to go, I, I received a, I don't know what you call it, a voucher, I think. [03:28:33.920 – 03:28:37.920] I re- it was a federal penitentiary where I was going, and it was a voucher. [03:28:37.920 – 03:28:44.580] And on the voucher it said, from the United States Penitentiary, a travel expense for AA speaker.

[03:28:44.580 – 03:28:51.800] So I got on the phone and I said, uh, uh, "Buddy, there's been a terrible cataclysm." Oh, thank you very much. [03:28:51.800 – 03:28:53.840] I knew there was some decency about you. [03:28:53.840 – 03:28:55.700] I really appreciate that. [03:28:55.700 – 03:28:57.100] And the lemon too. [03:28:57.100 – 03:28:58.620] That's great. [03:28:58.620 – 03:28:59.860] God knows I can talk a long time. [03:28:59.860 – 03:29:01.300] No, I'm gonna quit, right, as promised. [03:29:01.300 – 03:29:06.940] The, but and I told him, I said, "There's been a mistake here." And, uh, and he said, "What?" And I told him. [03:29:06.940 – 03:29:12.260] He said, "No, no, that's the way we do it." And I thought a minute, and I said, "No, that's not the way we do it.

[03:29:12.260 – 03:29:19.620] That may be the way you used to do it, but that's not the way we do it." And he said, "What do you mean?" And I told him, I said, "We are self-supporting. [03:29:19.620 – 03:29:21.780] I do not work for the fed- federal government. [03:29:21.780 – 03:29:25.700] You know, if I come out there, they're not gonna pay my tab as an AA speaker. [03:29:25.700 – 03:29:31.580] My God, man, that's as wrong as two left feet." And he, he said that he just didn't understand that tradition well.

[03:29:31.580 – 03:29:37.200] He understood it before we got through, because we went over and wrangled, and he was adamant that, you know, we've just got to do this thing. [03:29:37.200 – 03:29:42.000] And I said, "Well, we, we, we'll work it out, but we ain't doing it that way, I guarantee you." So we, we fi- finally figured out a way to do it. [03:29:42.000 – 03:29:44.100] And that was, it had integrity. [03:29:44.100 – 03:29:47.220] We went out, and, uh, it's okay. [03:29:47.220 – 03:29:47.900] We got it done. [03:29:47.900 – 03:29:54.740] About two years later, he called me, and he said, "We want you to come out here and do that again." And I started…

[03:29:54.740 – 03:30:03.160] He said, "Now wait a minute, wait a minute." He said, "Let me tell you right now, we have got it fixed." And I said, "Tell me how you got it fixed." He told me, and I gu- guarantee you, it was textbook. [03:30:03.160 – 03:30:04.480] It was textbook. [03:30:04.480 – 03:30:08.040] It was as absolutely squeaky clean as you could make it. [03:30:08.040 – 03:30:10.960] And I said, "Man, I'd be delighted." I'll show you what happened. [03:30:10.960 – 03:30:13.420] Now, now we were looking at archives today, eh? [03:30:13.420 – 03:30:15.820] I tell you one that'll never be in archives.

[03:30:15.820 – 03:30:16.840] I might run a copy of it. [03:30:16.840 – 03:30:19.180] But this is a priceless document. [03:30:19.180 – 03:30:24.490] So remember what I said two years earlier, that the federal government's gonna send me something, and I said, "Whoa, that's a way off"? [03:30:24.490 – 03:30:31.100] This time, what happened, the groups downtown paid the airfare. [03:30:31.100 – 03:30:32.720] Very appropriate. [03:30:32.720 – 03:30:42.820] The guys in prison paid the ground costs, hotel, meals, whatever the, the ground costs were. [03:30:42.820 – 03:30:44.020] They paid it. [03:30:44.020 – 03:30:45.780] This is their withdrawals sheet. [03:30:45.780 – 03:30:49.040] They, what they did was sign what– S- some of them wrote bad checks.

[03:30:49.040 – 03:30:52.020] They Well, they probably… [03:30:52.020 – 03:30:54.360] I'm gonna give them benefit of the doubt that they just didn't know. [03:30:54.360 – 03:30:56.860] They got some zero note. [03:30:56.860 – 03:30:58.260] It broke. [03:30:58.260 – 03:30:59.540] But imagine that. [03:30:59.540 – 03:31:06.339] Yeah, I guarantee you, that meeting was ten times better than the one two years earlier because it was congruent with principles. [03:31:06.339 – 03:31:08.360] That was a healthy AA environment. [03:31:08.360 – 03:31:12.780] Those are not a bunch of federal chattel sitting in there being given welfare by somebody. [03:31:13.447 – 03:31:15.707] This was a group of people taking their place in the ranks.

[03:31:15.707 – 03:31:17.127] Priceless. [03:31:17.127 – 03:31:18.266] Priceless. [03:31:18.266 – 03:31:21.967] And so anyway, that's what self-support's about. [03:31:21.967 – 03:31:24.727] That's ju- just one little example of many. [03:31:24.727 – 03:31:27.007] The next one's about money. [03:31:27.007 – 03:31:28.167] It's about you can't buy it. [03:31:28.167 – 03:31:28.707] You know, that… [03:31:28.707 – 03:31:31.337] I won't even extrapolate. [03:31:31.337 – 03:31:36.147] I'll just give you two examples on that, that it's aw- awfully important to, to understand that, that A.A. [03:31:36.147 – 03:31:36.827] is not for sale. [03:31:36.827 – 03:31:39.847] You can't buy it, and you can't sell it. [03:31:39.847 – 03:31:43.687] If you sell it, what you've done is prostituted it and turned it into something else.

[03:31:43.687 – 03:31:47.367] The essence of alcoholic to alcoholic is one alcoholic sharing with another. [03:31:47.367 – 03:31:49.787] You cannot market, you can't sell that. [03:31:49.787 – 03:31:52.927] That, that is something that's got to be a gift from one alcoholic to another. [03:31:52.927 – 03:31:57.117] And, uh, it gets, you know, it gets tested sometimes. [03:31:57.117 – 03:32:03.847] And, and there, there, there's reasons for that, that, that when you mix money with it, it absolutely becomes something different. [03:32:03.847 – 03:32:06.747] It loses the integrity of what it's supposed to be. [03:32:06.747 – 03:32:09.567] And I, and I'll just give you a couple examples on that.

[03:32:09.567 – 03:32:14.427] Uh, one, and, and I hope you can translate these into, uh, into the broader picture. [03:32:14.427 – 03:32:15.867] That one was a… [03:32:15.867 – 03:32:19.907] There's a guy I was working with over and over, and he was just a, he was a loser. [03:32:19.907 – 03:32:22.787] He was a real high roller, professional guy, but he was a… [03:32:22.787 – 03:32:25.907] I mean, he was, he was on a roll of, of screwing up his life big time. [03:32:25.907 – 03:32:36.047] And he called me asking for help, and, and he said, "I'm in a little bit of a jam, and I want you to help me with something." I said, "Okay, I'll do it if I can." And what he'd done, he'd been in my town, uh,

[03:32:36.047 – 03:32:42.766] without my permission and, and he'd, uh, got a place in a hotel, and then he, he jumped town and didn't pay the bill. [03:32:42.766 – 03:32:43.927] Well, they did what they ought to do. [03:32:43.927 – 03:32:47.467] They reported him, and this noted professional was getting ready to go to court. [03:32:47.467 – 03:32:57.467] And he said, "They're gonna hammer me if I don't pay that bill, and I don't have any money." Uh, and he said, "Will you take care of it for me?" And I said,

[03:32:57.467 – 03:32:58.887] "Yep, I will." Uh, he was a good… [03:32:58.887 – 03:32:59.817] He, he's a friend. [03:32:59.817 – 03:33:00.687] I like him. [03:33:00.687 – 03:33:02.127] I said, "Sure, I'll take care of that. [03:33:02.127 – 03:33:08.727] Don't worry about it." So I went, and he said, "Now, be sure and send me the receipt, because if I go in there without a receipt, they're still gonna hammer me." I said, "All right," I said. [03:33:08.727 – 03:33:09.427] So I sent it to him. [03:33:09.427 – 03:33:11.107] "Now, now, now, now here it is," I said. [03:33:11.107 – 03:33:15.727] He told me he was gonna pay me back, gonna sell a car, and yeah, I mean, I've heard every story under…

[03:33:15.727 – 03:33:16.407] known to man. [03:33:16.407 – 03:33:18.667] And I, I said, "Don't worry about that for God's sakes. [03:33:18.667 – 03:33:19.287] Don't worry about it. [03:33:19.287 – 03:33:24.487] I don't care whether you pay it back or not." And, uh, so he said, "No, no, I'm gonna pay you." So he s- he went… [03:33:24.487 – 03:33:32.147] When he got through with this thing, he sent me a check for the exact amount plus five dollars. [03:33:32.147 – 03:33:34.347] Now, you think about that a minute. [03:33:34.347 – 03:33:37.807] Do you know of a more effective way to negate a gift?

[03:33:37.807 – 03:33:43.067] That was a very, very powerful way of saying, "You ain't helping me. [03:33:43.067 – 03:33:52.807] Here's your tip, buster." Now, I didn't, I didn't write him a very nice note back, but I sent him that five dollars and, uh, well, I won't even go into what all I told him to do with it. [03:33:52.807 – 03:33:54.767] But anyway, that's his problem. [03:33:54.767 – 03:33:56.007] It's also his five dollars. [03:33:56.007 – 03:33:58.187] But see what that would do? [03:33:58.187 – 03:34:07.027] You know, here's a guy that was making a healthy request for help, and then what he does is absolutely sabotages it with this sort of doling out something to…

[03:34:07.027 – 03:34:09.707] And that's what happens when you, when you mix the money in the thing. [03:34:09.707 – 03:34:11.027] You're gonna screw it up royally. [03:34:11.027 – 03:34:17.167] And there are a whole bunch of them that, that, that, that have happened that way with me. [03:34:17.167 – 03:34:20.387] There, there was one other one I just want to mention that… [03:34:20.387 – 03:34:21.407] If I can remember what it was. [03:34:21.407 – 03:34:24.547] Oh, how we scr- skirt around. [03:34:24.547 – 03:34:31.507] Uh, us alcoholics are kind of crafty thinkers, and, and, and we do an excellent job of tap dancing around these principles.

[03:34:31.507 – 03:34:34.047] And I went down to speak at a group. [03:34:34.047 – 03:34:35.447] They said, "We want you to come down. [03:34:35.447 – 03:34:37.547] We want to show you our new building." And I… [03:34:37.547 – 03:34:39.687] Now, this is a little rinky-dink town in North Carolina. [03:34:39.687 – 03:34:45.947] So I went down, and the new building was sitting on the 13th green of the country club. [03:34:45.947 – 03:34:52.827] Well, I can smell a rat, and I knew there was a rodent around there somewhere. [03:34:52.827 – 03:35:03.187] And so I looked at that thing as I went in, and they said, "Well, we want to show you the building." I said, "All right, you can show me the building, but don't tell me where you got the money, because I don't want to know where you got the money,

[03:35:03.187 – 03:35:08.207] because that would make me an accessory after the fact of something that's wrong as two left feet. [03:35:08.207 – 03:35:10.527] So don't tell me." And they never have told me. [03:35:10.527 – 03:35:15.887] But I'll guarantee you there were some souls sold in getting that building. [03:35:15.887 – 03:35:20.567] There were some principles that were sacrificed in getting that building. [03:35:20.567 – 03:35:25.127] And anyway, but it's easy to tap dance around. [03:35:25.127 – 03:35:31.627] You know, and you get into all kind of tricky language like it's a community deal and all this stuff, and all it is is a tap dance around the principles.

[03:35:31.627 – 03:35:37.067] The principle is that we don't take in support from outside people. [03:35:37.067 – 03:35:38.247] We carry our weight. [03:35:38.247 – 03:35:42.007] If we can't afford a place, we meet in a less, less sumptuous place. [03:35:42.007 – 03:35:44.287] For God's sakes, you, you don't sell your soul to… [03:35:44.287 – 03:35:47.207] Anyway, uh, it's sim- simple little thing. [03:35:47.207 – 03:35:52.207] It, it also hits pretty hard, uh, that, that principle about people who work in the field. [03:35:52.207 – 03:35:55.207] That's a noble thing, but it's a tricky terrain. [03:35:55.207 – 03:35:59.807] When people start to work with alcoholics in some professional status, that is a tricky terrain.

[03:35:59.807 – 03:36:04.327] I've sponsored many people who work in that field, and it's a, it's a delicate proposition. [03:36:04.327 – 03:36:14.327] It can be noble work, and it can be excellent work, and people can do effective work, but brother, is it treacherous when you start trying to differentiate between what you give away and what you sell, and [03:36:14.327 – 03:36:15.527] it's a very important distinction. [03:36:15.527 – 03:36:19.797] The ninth one is about, about don't organize stuff. [03:36:19.797 – 03:36:20.687] That's, that's how we read it. [03:36:20.687 – 03:36:21.737] It says, "A.A. [03:36:21.737 – 03:36:22.967] as such, A.A.

[03:36:22.967 – 03:36:28.247] as such ought never be organized." Go back to what I was saying in the second tradition. [03:36:28.247 – 03:36:28.907] A.A. [03:36:28.907 – 03:36:30.787] as such is the essential message. [03:36:30.787 – 03:36:32.167] That's one alcoholic working with another. [03:36:32.167 – 03:36:33.427] That's what as such is. [03:36:33.427 – 03:36:37.147] And as such, that ought not ever be organized. [03:36:37.147 – 03:36:38.447] But then it goes on. [03:36:38.447 – 03:36:39.327] That's one thought. [03:36:39.327 – 03:36:45.247] But we may create service boards and committees directly responsible to the people they serve. [03:36:45.247 – 03:36:48.187] It's like Ed and these guys here. [03:36:48.187 – 03:36:56.847] This is a committee of, defined by some method, a committee of people who have bothered to take on the, the, the, the labor, the, the labor and the leadership for doing this thing.

[03:36:56.847 – 03:36:59.107] They're responsible to the people they serve. [03:36:59.107 – 03:36:59.707] Who do they serve? [03:36:59.707 – 03:37:00.147] Us. [03:37:00.147 – 03:37:02.447] We're the consumers of this. [03:37:02.447 – 03:37:10.827] And so their allegiance, written or not, is to be allegiant to the people they serve so that we deliver a conference here that's worthy of attention. [03:37:10.827 – 03:37:11.967] And that's what it's about. [03:37:11.967 – 03:37:13.947] And so certainly we organize. [03:37:13.947 – 03:37:14.147] You have… [03:37:14.147 – 03:37:20.047] That, I think the only time organization is important is if you care about what you're doing. [03:37:20.047 – 03:37:23.861] It's kinda like I said about this, th-this thing here today.

[03:37:23.861 – 03:37:30.071] I mean, I could have come in here and just whanged away at you for stuff here, but I, I had a basic track I wanted to do with this thing, so I have to organize a bit. [03:37:30.071 – 03:37:32.771] Didn't organize quite enough 'cause I won't quite finish, but I never do. [03:37:32.771 – 03:37:34.271] And so I just quit. [03:37:34.271 – 03:37:36.291] When, uh… [03:37:36.291 – 03:37:40.431] But that thing about organize, mentioned about the structure of a home group, that's important stuff. [03:37:40.431 – 03:37:45.711] You know, those– I like to get stuff defined so you can get your mind off the arrangements and take care of carrying the message.

[03:37:45.711 – 03:37:50.111] 'Cause that's what, you know, what structure and what planning and what organization does for me. [03:37:50.111 – 03:37:53.011] So certainly, if we wanna get something done, there's some organization that's required. [03:37:53.011 – 03:38:00.631] The tenth one is about, I like to think about it's just, don't be talking when you got no business talking. [03:38:00.631 – 03:38:02.651] We have no opinion on outside issues. [03:38:02.651 – 03:38:06.151] Uh, well, close the book and then forget it. [03:38:06.151 – 03:38:08.171] No opinion on outside issues. [03:38:08.171 – 03:38:08.951] That's basically what it is. [03:38:08.951 – 03:38:14.611] What, what I like to think about it is about sort of watching my language, you know, watching what I do.

[03:38:14.611 – 03:38:18.121] You know, I'm a guy who I'm, I'm, I'm a citizen. [03:38:18.121 – 03:38:19.931] I'm a concerned citizen. [03:38:19.931 – 03:38:22.540] I'm a guy that I have some passionate feelings about some things. [03:38:22.540 – 03:38:27.391] And although I don't want to, I have to put a damper on how much I express that. [03:38:27.391 – 03:38:34.211] Because when I, you know, I'm, I have bothered to let myself get fairly well known in my state. [03:38:34.211 – 03:38:36.931] And most people who know me know I'm in AA. [03:38:36.931 – 03:38:43.291] Now, there are a lot of times when I would like to get more public than I am with some things that I'm steamed about.

[03:38:43.291 – 03:38:53.171] But I rarely do it, because when I do it, no matter how much I may not want to, I insinuate some spokesmanship for AA. [03:38:53.171 – 03:38:57.151] And so I muzzle what would otherwise be kinda natural things for me to do. [03:38:57.151 – 03:39:02.191] I did write a, a pretty ugly letter to the governor a while back because he just… [03:39:02.191 – 03:39:05.191] And, and I– But you can believe I thought about it a long time. [03:39:05.191 – 03:39:10.691] Because I– he just needed to hear something from somebody, and, and I figured I was somebody, so he heard it.

[03:39:10.691 – 03:39:13.841] And, uh and he answered it himself. [03:39:13.841 – 03:39:16.571] I guarantee you, he didn't let a secretary read that, I don't think. [03:39:16.571 – 03:39:17.591] He answered it himself. [03:39:17.591 – 03:39:20.411] And, uh, but anyway, I had a lot of fear about that. [03:39:20.411 – 03:39:29.391] So when I speak up, what I've gotta be careful about when I speak up, is that I don't by word, deed, or insinuation speak on your behalf. [03:39:29.391 – 03:39:31.731] I don't know whether you share feelings I do. [03:39:31.731 – 03:39:32.371] Probably don't. [03:39:32.371 – 03:39:33.851] You know, you got your own feelings about stuff.

[03:39:33.851 – 03:39:42.011] So I have to be careful that when I start venting and, and, and editorializing about something, I gotta be sure that I'm not dragging other people into that with me. [03:39:42.011 – 03:39:44.591] So I gotta be careful about that, that I'm not speaking for everybody. [03:39:44.591 – 03:39:46.531] I gotta do a lot of work with public stuff. [03:39:46.531 – 03:39:50.111] I do some stuff with some lawyers and, uh, uh, in, in law school. [03:39:50.111 – 03:39:56.911] And but when I'm there, I always have to be very careful about what I say and, and what I don't say because I don't wanna insinuate some kind of thing that…

[03:39:56.911 – 03:39:58.671] So just caution about that. [03:39:58.671 – 03:40:03.691] I tell you, the other thing that, that I always like to underline in this, in this one is gossip. [03:40:03.691 – 03:40:13.831] Uh, that to me is one of the most injurious, often fatal things that can happen in this program, is people getting loose and, and, and into sort of [03:40:13.831 – 03:40:21.231] gossip and, and, and, uh, just assassinating character that I have never seen anything but bad come of it. [03:40:21.231 – 03:40:23.311] I have never seen a useful product of it.

[03:40:23.311 – 03:40:25.471] And so I don't do it. [03:40:25.471 – 03:40:28.551] And I don't listen to it. [03:40:28.551 – 03:40:30.311] Uh, because if I listen to it, I'm part of it. [03:40:30.311 – 03:40:33.171] And so I, I like to watch that. [03:40:33.171 – 03:40:37.071] You know, I don't wanna get into that sort of forming camps, you know, and this one talked about that one. [03:40:37.071 – 03:40:38.751] I've, I've got no interest in that whatsoever. [03:40:38.751 – 03:40:45.411] And it's because of this principle that I've got to be mindful, that I've got a responsibility as a member not to be dragging folk under my tent.

[03:40:45.411 – 03:40:49.911] Eleven and twelve, I'll just visit right quick that about anonymity. [03:40:49.911 – 03:40:55.411] That, uh, you, any one of these, you could do a whole hour and a half on any one of them, but the, uh, or more. [03:40:55.411 – 03:40:58.611] But anonymity is a, it's a kind of an elusive thing, eh? [03:40:58.611 – 03:41:04.691] That it's, uh, sometimes we just sort of flagrantly violate it. [03:41:04.691 – 03:41:06.131] Sometimes we just seem to overdo it. [03:41:06.131 – 03:41:09.291] You know, that, uh, it, it's becoming more and more of a challenge.

[03:41:09.291 – 03:41:14.531] You know, I always introduce myself by full name because I don't want to be anonymous in my fellowship. [03:41:14.531 – 03:41:16.811] For God's sakes, I'm not hiding here. [03:41:16.811 – 03:41:20.051] I want people to know who I am so that if you wanna reach me, you can do it. [03:41:20.051 – 03:41:21.351] So I don't wanna get… [03:41:21.351 – 03:41:23.861] Ano-anonymity is not about secrecy. [03:41:23.861 – 03:41:26.291] It's, it's about humility. [03:41:26.291 – 03:41:31.411] It's about not getting carried away with a big I and a lot of personal aggrandizement is, is what it's about.

[03:41:31.411 – 03:41:33.331] It's not about fearful hiding. [03:41:33.331 – 03:41:40.391] And, uh, you know, I, I think, you know, in, in the writings early on, very clear that, that AA, Bill said it. [03:41:40.391 – 03:41:45.571] I heard, heard him say it, that that AA was never intended to be some fugitive hiding place for alcoholics. [03:41:45.571 – 03:41:46.761] You know, what the f– [03:41:47.093 – 03:41:52.033] The outcome of this program is if we practice it, it's to restore us to our rightful place in this world. [03:41:52.033 – 03:41:54.333] It's not a place to go hide somewhere.

[03:41:54.333 – 03:41:59.813] It's a place to go get what we need and in intimacy of our, of our companions, and then go put this sucker to work. [03:41:59.813 – 03:42:01.653] And, and that's, and that's what it's about. [03:42:01.653 – 03:42:06.433] But we get so caught up in it that sometimes we just, we overdo it, overdo it. [03:42:06.433 – 03:42:07.373] And, and Dr. [03:42:07.373 – 03:42:13.073] Bob was the one who said it, that it's as much a violation to, to be overly guarded as it is to be overly open. [03:42:13.073 – 03:42:16.253] Now, we have lots of problems with anonymity breaks.

[03:42:16.253 – 03:42:16.953] We surely do. [03:42:16.953 – 03:42:19.773] They're, they're, they're constant and ongoing. [03:42:19.773 – 03:42:22.493] So they're, they're, they're big time, big time problems that go on with that. [03:42:22.493 – 03:42:30.493] What I wanna be sure of is that I don't– I, I, I close with this, this, this, this last example that y'all mentioned about, uh, about planes. [03:42:30.493 – 03:42:31.893] I, I spend a lot of time on planes. [03:42:31.893 – 03:42:37.113] And for many, many years, when, when, uh, I'd be flying somewhere, somebody… [03:42:37.113 – 03:42:39.253] You know, you usually start chatting or often do.

[03:42:39.253 – 03:42:44.693] And somebody would say, "Where are you going?" I'd say, "Well, I'm going to Phoenix." "What for?" And I would– I wouldn't lie. [03:42:44.693 – 03:42:46.593] I would just sort of smoke screen it, you know. [03:42:46.593 – 03:42:52.793] I'd say, "Well, I'm going to conference." "Oh, what's it about?" And I'd say, "Oh, well, it's about alcoholism." Well, this is not about alcoholism. [03:42:52.793 – 03:42:53.943] This is about recovery. [03:42:53.943 – 03:42:55.093] It's about learning to live. [03:42:55.093 – 03:42:56.913] And so I did that for years. [03:42:56.913 – 03:43:00.293] And then one day it dawned on me, what am I doing?

[03:43:00.293 – 03:43:01.693] Why am I doing this? [03:43:01.693 – 03:43:04.473] I'm thirty thousand feet in the air in a little metal tube. [03:43:04.473 – 03:43:05.973] Anonymity? [03:43:05.973 – 03:43:06.793] From what? [03:43:06.793 – 03:43:08.693] And I thought, that is stupid. [03:43:08.693 – 03:43:09.833] That's not anonymity. [03:43:09.833 – 03:43:11.712] That's either fear or pride, one or the other. [03:43:11.712 – 03:43:12.433] I don't know what it is. [03:43:12.433 – 03:43:14.273] But I thought, that is dumb. [03:43:14.273 – 03:43:16.113] Good chance we ain't gonna get there. [03:43:16.113 – 03:43:21.613] And I'm gonna be, "Don't tell anybody you met." So, so I said, "I'm not doing that anymore." And I haven't. [03:43:21.613 – 03:43:21.973] Yeah. [03:43:21.973 – 03:43:23.613] And I'll tell you something.

[03:43:23.613 – 03:43:27.073] I have had kind of– that's probably been thirty years ago I made that decision. [03:43:27.073 – 03:43:34.593] From that day to this, I have never been less than open and forthright about anybody who asked me where I'm going. [03:43:34.593 – 03:43:35.153] I tell them. [03:43:35.153 – 03:43:38.193] I usually try not to tell them more than they wanna know. [03:43:38.193 – 03:43:40.012] But sometimes I do, you know. [03:43:40.012 – 03:43:42.273] And, but I'll tell you what happens. [03:43:42.273 – 03:43:48.292] I, I wish I had time to tell you the enormously rewarding experiences I've had.

[03:43:48.292 – 03:43:52.633] I can't tell you how many members in hiding I've found sitting on planes. [03:43:52.633 – 03:43:59.093] People in Al-Anon who hadn't been to a meeting for years, who would get a spirit rekindled just from touching base with somebody. [03:43:59.093 – 03:44:02.173] Just humans like that young salesman gripping the, the bar. [03:44:02.173 – 03:44:07.453] It's just been replete with, with over and over and over marvelous experiences. [03:44:07.453 – 03:44:08.593] Hear this. [03:44:08.593 – 03:44:15.233] I have never had one single person less than above average interest. [03:44:15.233 – 03:44:16.593] Not one. [03:44:16.593 – 03:44:24.833] Never one ever said, "Oh, well, that's nice." Everybody wants to hear more because there isn't very many family trees don't have one hanging in it somewhere.

[03:44:24.833 – 03:44:27.793] So this is not some kind of a thing. [03:44:27.793 – 03:44:37.853] Anyway, you know, I hope that you share with me that, that, that traditions are a very vital set of principles for me and how I function and how I work in and how I carry out my [03:44:37.853 – 03:44:38.093] work. [03:44:38.093 – 03:44:39.073] And I thank you very much. [03:44:39.073 – 03:44:39.673] Thank you. [03:44:39.673 – 03:44:51.113] Thank [03:44:51.113 – 03:44:51.123] you. [03:44:51.123 – 03:44:51.653] Thank you very much. [03:44:51.653 – 03:44:52.813] He is an optimist. [03:44:52.813 – 03:44:56.373] I hope he'll be somewhere in the neighborhood of right. [03:44:56.373 – 03:45:03.273] Uh, as advertised, we wanna, wanna deal tonight with, uh…

[03:45:03.273 – 03:45:07.593] It's a, it's a little different kind of a take on history. [03:45:07.593 – 03:45:09.313] Uh, this is a history conference. [03:45:09.313 – 03:45:20.513] And there are a lot of people here that I know who are, who are excellent historians, who, who can absolutely dazzle you with, with, with, uh, factual [03:45:20.513 – 03:45:23.673] and even some obscure information about Alcoholics Anonymous. [03:45:23.673 – 03:45:26.273] And, and that's, uh, that's all pretty vital. [03:45:26.273 – 03:45:31.403] Now, that's not exactly the way I like to, uh, like to approach history. [03:45:31.403 – 03:45:39.153] That's great for those who have that sort of technical orientation and are geared into, uh, to the facts of history.

[03:45:39.153 – 03:45:45.393] I, uh, I never have really gotten into that that much. [03:45:45.393 – 03:45:48.683] You know, like there's some debate about, you know, when Dr. [03:45:48.683 – 03:45:51.273] Bob or when AA actually started. [03:45:51.273 – 03:45:54.433] I, I have absolutely no interest in that. [03:45:54.433 – 03:45:59.133] You know, there's, there's some people that have researched that thing, uh, extensively. [03:45:59.133 – 03:46:00.813] I'm not one of them. [03:46:00.813 – 03:46:06.513] The only thing that I really wanna be sure of is that I know those boys connected, and that's why I'm here. [03:46:06.513 – 03:46:07.612] That's what I wanna know.

[03:46:07.612 – 03:46:19.303] And, uh, so I like to approach history in, in terms of, like we tell our stories, and if you saw it on the program, that [03:46:19.303 – 03:46:22.923] we tell our stories with what we were like, what happened, what we're like now. [03:46:22.923 – 03:46:27.053] And I like to look at the, at the, at our history in that sense. [03:46:27.053 – 03:46:32.073] Now, what was it that happened in Alcoholics Anonymous in those early days? [03:46:32.073 – 03:46:36.313] Now, I'm, I'm not quite old enough to have been in those early days.

[03:46:36.313 – 03:46:37.133] I was close to it. [03:46:37.133 – 03:46:42.233] Uh, AA was not quite twenty-two years old when I got here. [03:46:42.233 – 03:46:52.723] And, uh, so I, I– while I wasn't there, I did know some of the people who were, and met many, many of the people in the first hundred and, uh, uh, [03:46:52.723 – 03:46:59.253] some of the old, old folks was Clarence and, and Bill and, uh, Sam Shoemaker and on and on and on. [03:46:59.253 – 03:47:03.502] And, and that's a rich part of, of stuff I value in Alcoholics Anonymous.

[03:47:03.502 – 03:47:13.553] So just getting to be those– around those people and, and, and listening to them and, uh, appreciating them, both the alcoholics and maybe even more the [03:47:13.553 – 03:47:14.453] non-alcoholics. [03:47:14.453 – 03:47:24.593] Because one thing you look at in our history, and, and I won't touch this much right now, but I might get to it before we start– before we wrap up, that if [03:47:24.593 – 03:47:28.193] you think, and I guarantee you we could do it, especially with this group, we could do it right now.

[03:47:28.193 – 03:47:38.213] If I said to you, say, in the first five or ten years of our history, name some, some, some high [03:47:38.213 – 03:47:45.953] profile, well-known public figures who publicly supported, endorsed, encouraged Alcoholics Anonymous. [03:47:45.953 – 03:47:48.153] You wouldn't have any problem. [03:47:48.153 – 03:47:54.793] I guarantee we could name twenty-five here in five minutes that were there during those first infant years of the program. [03:47:54.793 – 03:48:04.423] If I ask you to do that in ni– in, in 2007, you'd have a lot more of a challenge. [03:48:04.423 – 03:48:14.642] You'd have a hard time coming up with even a small percentage of the people who were publicly

[03:48:14.643 – 03:48:20.823] public leaders, who were vocally supportive and, and endorsed, encouraged Alcoholics Anonymous. [03:48:20.823 – 03:48:24.103] I think there's a bit of a story in that. [03:48:24.103 – 03:48:34.103] And so that's why I'm interested in what happened, uh, i-i-in those early days of our program, what we were like as a fellowship, and, uh, and then what [03:48:34.103 – 03:48:42.703] happened that's had some, some, uh, serious impacts on Alcoholics Anonymous and the way we do business, and then what we're like now. [03:48:42.703 – 03:48:44.803] We're getting at a little bit of it in the, uh…

[03:48:44.803 – 03:48:49.323] Excuse me, I've got to get rid of– I got a gumball in my mouth. [03:48:49.323 – 03:48:54.563] Gonna sound like I'm shooting craps up here. [03:48:54.563 – 03:48:59.613] That's crude to do, but that's the only way I could think of doing it. [03:48:59.613 – 03:49:00.363] Didn't want to swallow it. [03:49:00.363 – 03:49:00.863] I'd choke. [03:49:00.863 – 03:49:07.113] So, so that, that's the kind of a thing I'd like to get at. [03:49:07.113 – 03:49:17.183] In, in the course of this, I'm quite sure I'll, I'll talk about some things that are negative things, that they're things that are, that are troubling to me and I hope to

[03:49:17.183 – 03:49:17.383] you. [03:49:17.383 – 03:49:21.263] Uh, we hit a little of that in tradition, but maybe we can get a little bit further into that. [03:49:21.263 – 03:49:29.983] And before we do anything like that, I want to make one kind of just public acknowledgement. [03:49:29.983 – 03:49:38.463] There is not one single thing in Alcoholics Anonymous that I have concern about that didn't happen on my watch. [03:49:38.463 – 03:49:41.623] It happened while I was on duty. [03:49:41.623 – 03:49:45.343] So nothing was visited on me in the middle of the night. [03:49:45.343 – 03:49:52.783] Everything that happened either happened with my endorsement, consent, or benign neglect, whatever it was.

[03:49:52.783 – 03:49:59.683] But I, I don't dismiss my responsibility in, in, uh, in anything that's happened in Alcoholics Anonymous. [03:49:59.683 – 03:50:06.483] Uh, it's like I said a little earlier, that most of our troubles, uh, wounds are self-inflicted. [03:50:06.483 – 03:50:10.483] And so I like to keep that in mind when we start taking a look at, uh, at, at the history. [03:50:10.483 – 03:50:13.923] And what I– some of it is what I personally recall. [03:50:13.923 – 03:50:18.402] Some of it is just, just, uh, things that I picked up from some of the people in the early days.

[03:50:18.402 – 03:50:19.803] And what I, uh… [03:50:19.803 – 03:50:21.523] Do y'all like my jacket? [03:50:21.523 – 03:50:22.383] Yeah. [03:50:22.383 – 03:50:26.683] Jesus. [03:50:26.683 – 03:50:29.123] I wouldn't have bought this thing to go to a dog fight. [03:50:29.123 – 03:50:39.363] But, but a guy that had forty some years experience in selling clothes, I told him, I said, "I want to buy a, a hunter green sport coat." [03:50:39.363 – 03:50:49.383] He said, "You don't want a hunter green sport po-po– coat." I said, "Why not?" He said, "They're going out." And he said, "Let me show you the best thing

[03:50:49.383 – 03:50:51.123] in the store." And he took me over to this. [03:50:51.123 – 03:51:00.463] And I said, "Man, you got to be kidding." He said, "Nope, been doing this forty-four years." I said, "All right, you got it, tiger." And so here I am with this thing. [03:51:00.463 – 03:51:02.883] I always tell everybody I won the Masters. [03:51:02.883 – 03:51:08.343] But, but people challenge me right away, even in Arizona. [03:51:08.343 – 03:51:11.462] So, but now that you like it, I'm gonna take it off because it's warm in here. [03:51:11.462 – 03:51:14.643] Yeah. [03:51:14.643 – 03:51:16.023] Now we're in fighting shape.

[03:51:16.023 – 03:51:20.443] This is the fastest quick change I ever did in my life, I believe. [03:51:20.443 – 03:51:24.383] I normally am a fastidious dresser and take about an hour to get ready. [03:51:24.383 – 03:51:26.163] I did it in about eight minutes tonight. [03:51:26.163 – 03:51:33.223] Because we went out and got over-served in a restaurant restaurant, and anyway, it was a quick change. [03:51:33.223 – 03:51:37.463] Uh, so with that, let me go. [03:51:37.463 – 03:51:47.523] With, with, uh, my recall, you know, of what we were like from what I, I personally experienced, that we were a, a, a significantly different

[03:51:47.523 – 03:51:55.743] fellowship in the sense that we were a, a small and, relatively speaking, fairly intimate fellowship. [03:51:55.743 – 03:52:02.623] You know, when I c- when I came in, we had somewhere around a hundred and twenty-five thousand members. [03:52:02.623 – 03:52:04.483] Uh, best I can tell. [03:52:04.483 – 03:52:10.403] I mean, uh, uh, I don't think we ever ought to take any numbers seriously in Alcoholics Anonymous. [03:52:10.403 – 03:52:13.683] How do you h- how do you count a few million drunks? [03:52:13.683 – 03:52:15.423] I mean, good God, man. [03:52:15.423 – 03:52:17.222] That, that's just guess. [03:52:17.222 – 03:52:17.462] You know?

[03:52:17.462 – 03:52:18.923] I'd say there's this many. [03:52:18.923 – 03:52:20.633] And I tell you what- [03:52:20.779 – 03:52:23.759] Reason I kind of tilted that way, I was sitting in a meeting one night. [03:52:23.759 – 03:52:25.419] It was not in my home group, I was just visiting. [03:52:25.419 – 03:52:29.639] And they get one of these nose count deals we get out periodically from the office. [03:52:29.639 – 03:52:33.079] So how many people are considered to be members of this group? [03:52:33.079 – 03:52:34.819] So they ask it there. [03:52:34.819 – 03:52:38.279] And everybody in the room raised their hand except me. [03:52:38.279 – 03:52:41.859] There were people from my home group there raised their hands.

[03:52:41.859 – 03:52:45.019] And the guy punched me, said, "Why didn't you raise your hand? [03:52:45.019 – 03:52:47.498] You come here." I said, "I don't belong here. [03:52:47.498 – 03:52:48.519] This is not my group. [03:52:48.519 – 03:52:56.219] I'm visiting." But when you think about that, if we base our, our figures on something like that, come on now. [03:52:56.219 – 03:52:58.659] So we'll see. [03:52:58.659 – 03:53:01.299] We're kind of optimistic counters, I, I believe. [03:53:01.299 – 03:53:03.479] And so we may have more than that. [03:53:03.479 – 03:53:04.459] God only knows. [03:53:04.459 – 03:53:13.499] Uh, so, so but we were small, you know, in, in, in the sense that the groups were not readily available even when I came in.

[03:53:13.499 – 03:53:21.639] And, you know, I mentioned earlier about it, and, and for all practical purposes, really starting AA in a city, and, and, uh, and that was by necessity. [03:53:21.639 – 03:53:22.879] It was the only thing going there. [03:53:22.879 – 03:53:25.549] And, and, and, and we needed to have a group, so we went to work. [03:53:25.549 – 03:53:34.109] And, and in those days, not, not only was it small, but there was a lot of, of sort of community spirit among the groups. [03:53:34.109 – 03:53:41.039] That when somebody would start a group, that was something that was a, was a significant thing to everybody in reach.

[03:53:41.039 – 03:53:49.059] And so when we'd start a group, every town around would just load up and go over and support that group till they got going. [03:53:49.059 – 03:53:55.579] And there was an intimacy in that, a real c- a real fellowship, that people knew each other far more than we do today. [03:53:55.579 – 03:53:59.779] I mean, some of the way it is now, my God, we've got meetings, particularly in large cities, you got meetings on every corner. [03:53:59.779 – 03:54:04.359] And people go to the same meeting for five years, not know people on the other side of the room.

[03:54:04.359 – 03:54:06.519] So it's a much different kind of a thing. [03:54:06.519 – 03:54:10.899] We were small, and we were intimate, and we tended to know each other, uh, fairly well. [03:54:10.899 – 03:54:20.929] The, the nature of the program, and, uh, now, uh, these guys are gonna get into it tomorrow with the, uh, with, with working [03:54:20.929 – 03:54:21.919] the program in the '40s. [03:54:21.919 – 03:54:32.359] My sense of what we were doing when I came in in the '50s is that we were almost totally an action-oriented fellowship. [03:54:32.359 – 03:54:42.419] Uh, one of the characteristics that was, I think, significant in, in the early, early, early days of Alcoholics Anonymous was that every single

[03:54:42.419 – 03:54:52.679] member, you could almost safely say that every single men- member, when they looked to, to their, their way, where they came from, it was [03:54:52.679 – 03:54:56.919] at the, at the, at the end of the hand of AA reaching out. [03:54:56.919 – 03:55:03.998] Everybody had a personal connection with somebody who helped them come into Alcoholics Anonymous. [03:55:03.998 – 03:55:06.459] And that was just a fact of life. [03:55:06.459 – 03:55:14.159] And, and what that bred was an incredible loyalty to that kind of thing. [03:55:14.159 – 03:55:23.379] You know, if somebody fishes me out of a rat hole, then I'm readily able, willing, and will go get them in, in the next rat hole.

[03:55:23.379 – 03:55:33.399] If you haven't gone through that experience, it's pretty hard to just logically conclude that it makes sense to go into a dangerous neighborhood because somebody [03:55:33.399 – 03:55:33.879] wants help. [03:55:33.879 – 03:55:38.129] You know, that's almost out of our range of, of thinking now. [03:55:38.129 – 03:55:41.819] That if– We, we don't react too well to that stuff. [03:55:41.819 – 03:55:44.599] It's kind of interesting to me now that we do a lot of workshops. [03:55:44.599 – 03:55:48.899] I, I don't do them, but, uh, some people do, on dealing with wet drunks.

[03:55:48.899 – 03:55:52.739] That, that's always seemed a, a strange term, wet drunk. [03:55:52.739 – 03:55:55.099] That was me when I didn't have anywhere to go. [03:55:55.099 – 03:55:57.119] If I sleep in the park, I was a wet drunk. [03:55:57.119 – 03:56:05.119] But in dealing with wet drunks, and it's, it's sort of trying to get people acclimated to the notion. [03:56:05.119 – 03:56:08.519] And it's a good effort, but I'm not sure it's gonna work. [03:56:08.519 – 03:56:10.179] I'm really not sure. [03:56:10.179 – 03:56:12.039] Maybe we can try. [03:56:12.039 – 03:56:21.179] But it's awfully hard to get people to, who didn't go through that experience, to rationally conclude that it's a good idea.

[03:56:21.179 – 03:56:23.399] You know, we tend to be a little bit more… [03:56:23.399 – 03:56:25.248] I, I give you example of that. [03:56:25.248 – 03:56:31.679] I was, I was speaking one night to a group in North Carolina, and it was, uh, just a typical kind of a group. [03:56:31.679 – 03:56:33.419] Kind of a large Sunday night speaker meeting. [03:56:33.419 – 03:56:38.699] And hadn't been going very long, and a drunk lady came in the door. [03:56:38.699 – 03:56:41.259] Well, I mean, that didn't bother me. [03:56:41.259 – 03:56:45.939] I, I mean, I, I kind of– I think it livens up a meeting a little bit because she came in.

[03:56:45.939 – 03:56:47.139] She's typical. [03:56:47.139 – 03:56:50.499] You know, she got her humming and bumping the walls and clattering and all that. [03:56:50.499 – 03:56:55.199] For some reason, went to the kitchen and started doing some stupid thing out there. [03:56:55.199 – 03:56:57.059] Well, I, I mean, it didn't bother me. [03:56:57.059 – 03:57:00.879] But I was like the psychiatrist in a burlesque show. [03:57:00.879 – 03:57:02.109] Yeah. [03:57:02.109 – 03:57:04.039] I'm watching the group. [03:57:04.039 – 03:57:05.299] I'm not watching the dancer. [03:57:05.299 – 03:57:06.479] I'm watching the group. [03:57:06.479 – 03:57:11.899] And it's interesting, the reaction of what do you do when a drunk woman wanders into your meeting.

[03:57:11.899 – 03:57:17.879] And you could see the non-verbal communication just flying all over that room, you know. [03:57:17.879 – 03:57:18.989] Like, "Ooh, yeah, yeah. [03:57:18.989 – 03:57:20.589] Yeah, somebody ought to do something. [03:57:20.589 – 03:57:21.519] Yeah, call nine one one. [03:57:21.519 – 03:57:28.239] Call the police." But it, it wouldn't have been much reaction if, if she'd have gone into the Kiwanis Club. [03:57:28.239 – 03:57:31.298] She would've got just about the same reaction. [03:57:31.298 – 03:57:41.459] And so that's what I'm talking about, is there's a loop in that where that ex- phenomenon of, of reaching out, no matter where,

[03:57:41.459 – 03:57:46.659] when, or who, reaching out is almost a vanishing ethic. [03:57:46.659 – 03:57:56.679] And, and the, the fact is that probably, I don't know if it's a fact, it's about like counting membership, but I believe that probably seventy-five, at, at least seventy-five, if [03:57:56.679 – 03:58:04.759] not eighty percent of our fellowship have never participated in a twelve-step call, either as a consumer or provider. [03:58:04.759 – 03:58:13.199] It's, uh, it's just a, it's just a lost thing that, that we, we, we've got a whole different change now.

[03:58:13.199 – 03:58:18.019] So but what it was like then, it was action, action, action. [03:58:18.019 – 03:58:24.859] And, uh, I mean, I– we spent a lot of time in the book basically beating people over the head with it to make them get in the car. [03:58:24.859 – 03:58:28.439] You know, there wasn't a whole lot of think tanks and, uh, all this kind of thing. [03:58:28.439 – 03:58:30.749] It was just tremendous action, you know. [03:58:30.749 – 03:58:37.679] I just told somebody I've– the last three te- twelve-step calls I had were from the ministers of the church where we meet.

[03:58:37.679 – 03:58:39.059] And, uh, I'm grateful for them. [03:58:39.059 – 03:58:44.707] But I u– I've used to have– I've had three at one time. [03:58:44.707 – 03:58:46.947] Never mind three different days. [03:58:46.947 – 03:58:48.427] I've had three at one time. [03:58:48.427 – 03:58:53.287] Now, if you wanna have some fun, you get, you get three fresh drunks. [03:58:53.287 – 03:58:59.577] The one with an hour sober is looking after one with thirty minutes sober, and he's looking after one that ain't even started yet, you know. [03:58:59.577 – 03:59:02.987] And so that is really, really interesting. [03:59:02.987 – 03:59:06.307] It, it will, it will test your mettle, I'll guarantee you that.

[03:59:06.307 – 03:59:16.347] But they were great days in the sense that it was that real, live person-to-person thing where that bond of trust and loyalty developed [03:59:16.347 – 03:59:17.647] second to none. [03:59:17.647 – 03:59:24.227] And it built up that, that, uh, that willingness to reach in and, and to, to, to pass it on. [03:59:24.227 – 03:59:28.257] That, that business about the hand of A.A., that's exactly what it was. [03:59:28.257 – 03:59:34.087] And so when you have that as an ethic in a, in a fellowship, that's a powerful tool, powerful resource.

[03:59:34.087 – 03:59:42.687] It built a kind of loyalty in the, in the group that it wasn't just casual folks just coming together to get acquainted. [03:59:42.687 – 03:59:45.167] These were folks who were intimately acquainted. [03:59:45.167 – 03:59:52.747] We were folks who'd seen each other at our very worst and then watched that miracle of rebirth occur. [03:59:52.747 – 04:00:00.977] So vitally, vitally important thing that, that I recall about that is, uh, as a, uh, as a, as a powerful thing. [04:00:00.977 – 04:00:02.107] There… [04:00:02.107 – 04:00:03.147] No resources. [04:00:03.147 – 04:00:04.407] No resources. [04:00:04.407 – 04:00:05.307] Now, I know that Dr.

[04:00:05.307 – 04:00:09.947] Bob had a little something going in Akron, but they kept it in Akron pretty much, I think. [04:00:09.947 – 04:00:20.107] That– I had never heard, even when I came in, I was not aware of, even after I was in A.A., I was not aware of anything other than just what I read [04:00:20.107 – 04:00:23.307] in history that was available for alcoholics. [04:00:23.307 – 04:00:28.967] There was no such thing as detox when I came along, except I mentioned the other night, jail. [04:00:28.967 – 04:00:33.927] That was a very effective detox, very reasonable, readily available, easy to get into.

[04:00:33.927 – 04:00:38.827] So, so, sometimes hard to get out of, but it was, uh, it was there. [04:00:38.827 – 04:00:39.447] That was it. [04:00:39.447 – 04:00:40.446] There was a… [04:00:40.446 – 04:00:50.746] I remember very well when, uh, when, uh, uh, when that, uh, we– the, the medical association just kinda nodded toward alcoholism [04:00:50.746 – 04:00:59.387] as being sorta like an illness, and it started to soften that rigidity of, of, of hospitals to, uh, to take in drunks. [04:00:59.387 – 04:01:09.567] When, when, when I was doing, in those early days of doing just wall-to-wall 12-step work, there was literally, in my county,

[04:01:09.567 – 04:01:15.767] an entire county, there was one place in the entire county where you could get something for a drunk. [04:01:15.767 – 04:01:18.107] And this is exactly what happened. [04:01:18.107 – 04:01:28.547] This was an old doc, a kind old man, and he would allow you to bring a drunk to the, to his office, which was in a house, but you had to take him around [04:01:28.547 – 04:01:32.626] to the kitchen and bring him in the back door, just like going to a bootlegger. [04:01:32.626 – 04:01:34.967] You wouldn't sit out there with other patients.

[04:01:34.967 – 04:01:41.027] You'd go in the back door, and Doc would come out, shoot him in the rump, and give you a prescription, and, and that's it. [04:01:41.027 – 04:01:43.827] That was the sum total of what was available. [04:01:43.827 – 04:01:53.327] And, and, uh, I was grateful for that 'cause I guarantee if you got one in the monkeys, I've done enough of them by trying to get them, the monkeys off their back by pouring booze in them. [04:01:53.327 – 04:01:56.467] I didn't know how, how dangerously I was dealing with people.

[04:01:56.467 – 04:01:57.967] Had no clue. [04:01:57.967 – 04:01:59.947] But it was just the state of the art at that time. [04:01:59.947 – 04:02:07.047] I, I traveled with liquor in my car at all times because you never know when it was gonna be vitally, uh, important to have. [04:02:07.047 – 04:02:14.147] I, I remember when we first, first s-started to get some places down in North Carolina. [04:02:14.147 – 04:02:20.607] First one I knew about was a place that was called Wilmith, W-I-L-M-I-T-H. [04:02:20.607 – 04:02:25.627] If you think about the, the, the origin of that name, it wouldn't take you long to figure that out.

[04:02:25.627 – 04:02:33.987] That was a place that was put up, put, put, put together by a bunch of alcoholics who figured you had to have a better way of getting people sobered up. [04:02:33.987 – 04:02:43.367] And that's all it was, just a bunch of people put together, got a place where they'd s– they would, I guess now the fancy term socially d– uh, social detox or something. [04:02:43.367 – 04:02:46.257] But all they'd do is just take them in and taper them off. [04:02:46.257 – 04:02:53.407] And man, I could take a drunk over there, and for 75 bucks, I could get that dude taken care of by somebody else.

[04:02:54.446 – 04:02:56.466] You don't think a drunk can tell time. [04:02:56.466 – 04:02:59.106] You know, those people tell me every time I'd go over there. [04:02:59.106 – 04:03:09.106] They give drinks by a s- by schedule, and I'll guarantee you when 9:00 came, those drunks would be knocking on the window, "Hey, [04:03:09.106 – 04:03:10.356] hey, see what time it is? [04:03:10.356 – 04:03:11.866] Yeah, drink time." You know? [04:03:11.866 – 04:03:16.786] And but three days later, I walk out with a sober guy. [04:03:16.786 – 04:03:18.606] God, I was grateful for that. [04:03:18.606 – 04:03:27.966] Man, I was glad to spend 75 bucks because if you wrestle with enough drunks and you get thrown up on enough times and you wrestle around at 3:00 in the morning…

[04:03:27.966 – 04:03:32.446] I had an alcoholic die in my arms one night, and I didn't know what to do with him. [04:03:32.446 – 04:03:38.466] So people who yearn for the good old days didn't experience the same good old days I did. [04:03:38.466 – 04:03:40.106] And so I don't want them back. [04:03:40.106 – 04:03:41.906] Deliver me from the good old days. [04:03:41.906 – 04:03:48.206] There were wonderful values in that with the allegiance and the, the importance of, of what connected folk. [04:03:48.206 – 04:03:50.966] But my God, y'all, that was bizarre. [04:03:50.966 – 04:03:51.506] That was bizarre. [04:03:51.506 – 04:03:52.706] I remember the first time…

[04:03:52.706 – 04:03:58.066] I don't want to spend this whole– Well, I would like to spend the whole time on it, but I'll f- I'll punish myself and move a little further. [04:03:58.066 – 04:04:04.286] I, I remember when we first got in hospitals, we literally had to provide keeper care. [04:04:04.286 – 04:04:12.686] We had to put a shift in there of people, AA members, who would go in because they didn't want nurses to have to put up with this goofy behavior. [04:04:12.686 – 04:04:17.206] And so we would have to go in and actually stand a post, you know, for a number of hours.

[04:04:17.206 – 04:04:19.466] It is eight hours when, when I first started doing it. [04:04:19.466 – 04:04:29.326] And, uh, I remember one night I went to, uh, I went to take my turn, and I went in, and the guy I was relieving said, "Glad you're here." Said, "He's doing fine. [04:04:29.326 – 04:04:32.926] There's no, no problem with him whatsoever." And I said, "Well, that's great. [04:04:32.926 – 04:04:36.706] Okay, take off, and I'll see you later." Well, I went in the room, and no drunk. [04:04:36.706 – 04:04:41.346] And I said, "Where could the fool be?" Uh, might, he didn't know where to go.

[04:04:41.346 – 04:04:43.726] I mean, the, the window's about that big. [04:04:43.726 – 04:04:45.446] I mean, even he couldn't have got through that. [04:04:45.446 – 04:04:47.726] I, "Where is this idiot?" You… [04:04:47.726 – 04:04:52.766] I'm looking under the bed, in the bed, up the, pushing on the towel up there to see if he's… [04:04:52.766 – 04:04:54.466] You never know about drunks. [04:04:54.466 – 04:04:58.126] And, uh, I heard a little clatter. [04:04:58.126 – 04:05:00.626] They had these metal wall lo-lockers over there. [04:05:00.626 – 04:05:04.786] I heard a little clatter over there, so I went over and opened the door. [04:05:04.786 – 04:05:07.646] He was only mildly confused.

[04:05:07.646 – 04:05:12.676] He, he, he thought he was in the restroom using the urinal. [04:05:12.676 – 04:05:18.516] And I said, "What are you doing?" Uh, well, like I couldn't see, but I said- "… [04:05:18.516 – 04:05:26.746] what are you doing?" And he, he looked at me with just the most it was just scorn, really. [04:05:26.746 – 04:05:28.426] He looked at me like I'd insulted him. [04:05:28.426 – 04:05:32.526] He said, "I beg your pardon." I said, "Pardon my ass. [04:05:32.526 – 04:05:33.286] Get out of there. [04:05:33.286 – 04:05:37.156] Get-" Well, they were wonderful days. [04:05:37.156 – 04:05:40.686] But good God, y'all, I don't want to do that anymore.

[04:05:40.686 – 04:05:43.546] But at least those doors were cracking a bit, eh? [04:05:43.546 – 04:05:46.186] And stuff was starting to open up just a little bit. [04:05:46.186 – 04:05:48.866] But that's what I remember, uh, about the good old days. [04:05:48.866 – 04:05:52.475] I had to, to, to, to… [04:05:52.475 – 04:05:53.626] Well, it was an experience. [04:05:53.626 – 04:05:55.186] And all experience has some value. [04:05:55.186 – 04:05:59.506] Uh, I was, uh, I was the only guy in that town. [04:05:59.506 – 04:06:00.346] We had no women. [04:06:00.346 – 04:06:02.946] I mean, there were some women there, but they didn't tend to want to hang out with us.

[04:06:02.946 – 04:06:05.066] And so we didn't have any women in the group. [04:06:05.066 – 04:06:07.266] I was the only guy. [04:06:07.266 – 04:06:09.826] I'm young and single and a handsome dude. [04:06:09.826 – 04:06:15.366] And so I was, I was a little flinchy about that. [04:06:15.366 – 04:06:16.846] I had been raised in AA. [04:06:16.846 – 04:06:24.486] One of the things of the old days, I was taught early on that women in AA are not women. [04:06:24.486 – 04:06:28.866] They're alcoholics, and you keep away from them. [04:06:28.866 – 04:06:33.766] Now, I guarantee you, I'd rather French kiss a cobra than to be messing with an alcoholic woman.

[04:06:33.766 – 04:06:34.806] There ain't no way. [04:06:34.806 – 04:06:38.826] And so I guarantee you, I was, I was broke of that before I ever got started. [04:06:38.826 – 04:06:39.946] And so I was… [04:06:39.946 – 04:06:40.646] I didn't want… [04:06:40.646 – 04:06:45.886] I near– I knew somebody was gonna try to, try, try to hit on me if I went out doing stuff. [04:06:45.886 – 04:06:50.166] And, uh, but I was right too. [04:06:50.166 – 04:06:56.966] The first, the first one that I called on was the last one that I called on- -on escorted. [04:06:56.966 – 04:07:02.056] You know, 'cause that girl, she fell in love at once, and, and that was not my business.

[04:07:02.056 – 04:07:07.526] So but anyway, that was, uh, that was, uh, one of the thrills of yesteryear. [04:07:07.526 – 04:07:14.086] And from, from that time on, I would take anybody with me on a 12-step call, as long as they were female. [04:07:14.086 – 04:07:19.786] My mother has been on more 12-step calls than 90% of the people in this fellowship. [04:07:19.786 – 04:07:20.396] Amen. [04:07:20.396 – 04:07:23.386] My sister, girlfriends, hitchhikers, anybody. [04:07:23.386 – 04:07:25.386] I don't care who it was, as long as they're female. [04:07:25.386 – 04:07:28.826] And, uh, and then finally, California. [04:07:28.826 – 04:07:33.566] There was a gal came in from California, and she looked Hollywood.

[04:07:33.566 – 04:07:36.506] She was a glamorous gal, big rocks on her hand. [04:07:36.506 – 04:07:38.706] She came into our little redneck town. [04:07:38.706 – 04:07:44.626] Every man in town loved her, and every wife hated her with a passion. [04:07:44.626 – 04:07:47.186] But man, was I glad to see her. [04:07:47.186 – 04:07:49.046] And she became my ride buddy. [04:07:49.046 – 04:07:51.206] And, uh, she's, she's… [04:07:51.206 – 04:07:53.046] I only sponsored two women. [04:07:53.046 – 04:07:58.006] I don't, I don't do that, but I sponsored her because there was nobody there but me. [04:07:58.006 – 04:08:00.546] And here she is 40-some years later. [04:08:00.546 – 04:08:01.586] I'm not gonna dump her.

[04:08:01.586 – 04:08:02.166] You know, I was… [04:08:02.166 – 04:08:03.216] So I just got her. [04:08:03.216 – 04:08:05.746] She's too old to jump on me now anyway. [04:08:05.746 – 04:08:12.486] And, and I got one that a guy actually left me in his will. [04:08:12.486 – 04:08:13.806] When he… [04:08:13.806 – 04:08:15.956] I said, "Gee, thanks. [04:08:15.956 – 04:08:17.306] Somebody else gets a Cadillac. [04:08:17.306 – 04:08:19.286] I get this…" Well, anyway. [04:08:19.286 – 04:08:21.706] It's weird fellowship. [04:08:21.706 – 04:08:27.546] And so that was a special kind of a thrill, you know, to, with, with… [04:08:27.546 – 04:08:29.086] But it was just part of the deal, you know. [04:08:29.086 – 04:08:32.246] Somebody had to do it, and I just happened to be the guy at that time.

[04:08:32.246 – 04:08:40.746] And, uh, the, uh, just to tell you one of the phenomenons about in those early days with going at it like that. [04:08:40.746 – 04:08:42.086] I had… [04:08:42.086 – 04:08:44.026] It's a marvelous experience. [04:08:44.026 – 04:08:49.886] I, I wouldn't want to particularly do it on a regular basis, but I had the marvelous experience of going to meetings alone. [04:08:49.886 – 04:08:58.750] Those are– That's a great experience to just sit there, and I'd go in, put on the coffee for me, nobody else show up, sit there and read.

[04:08:58.750 – 04:09:00.610] There was wonderful meetings. [04:09:00.610 – 04:09:02.690] My God, never had any controversy. [04:09:02.690 – 04:09:04.850] Business, business meetings were a snap. [04:09:04.850 – 04:09:07.650] You know, I, I, group, group conscience was a gimme. [04:09:07.650 – 04:09:10.430] You know, so, but it was, it was a great experience. [04:09:10.430 – 04:09:16.410] You know, that feeling of just doing what I'm supposed to be doing is a reward in itself. [04:09:16.410 – 04:09:19.090] Just the discipline of doing it. [04:09:19.090 – 04:09:22.370] And, and so there was a lot of, of, of good, exciting time. [04:09:22.370 – 04:09:28.370] I'll just tell you one other thing about that, and then I'll, I'll have to really condense and boogie on the rest.

[04:09:28.370 – 04:09:38.530] The, uh, when you're in that kind of a day, you've got to be a little reckless because there is no conventional trail [04:09:38.530 – 04:09:39.070] to follow. [04:09:39.070 – 04:09:40.430] There's no trail there. [04:09:40.430 – 04:09:41.150] So you gotta be… [04:09:41.150 – 04:09:48.990] Now, I'm gonna use the term I deliberately because that's what it was then, when I'm pretty much by myself at first. [04:09:48.990 – 04:09:51.970] And somewhere I had… [04:09:51.970 – 04:09:53.230] Now, I'm just, you picture who I am. [04:09:53.230 – 04:09:54.710] I'm a guy just got out of prison. [04:09:54.710 – 04:09:58.890] Uh, I can't, I can't, I, man, I ca- I couldn't afford a haircut.

[04:09:58.890 – 04:09:59.790] I am poor. [04:09:59.790 – 04:10:04.810] Uh, but I'd heard somewhere about something called a public meeting. [04:10:04.810 – 04:10:07.310] Well, that just meant something to me. [04:10:07.310 – 04:10:11.330] Now, like, that probably immediately paints a word picture in your mind, a public meeting. [04:10:11.330 – 04:10:14.610] You just get a bunch of public together and have a meeting. [04:10:14.610 – 04:10:16.090] Well, that was simple enough. [04:10:16.090 – 04:10:20.610] I thought, "My God, I can do that." And so I decided to do one. [04:10:20.610 – 04:10:20.950] Me. [04:10:20.950 – 04:10:31.110] I got the word out very effectively, and we filled the sanctuary of the largest

[04:10:31.110 – 04:10:32.450] church in that city. [04:10:32.450 – 04:10:39.130] Well, now I knew these were intelligent, mostly community leader type people. [04:10:39.130 – 04:10:40.880] I knew these were intelligent people. [04:10:40.880 – 04:10:43.090] They're far more intelligent than me. [04:10:43.090 – 04:10:46.130] I had a catered dinner brought in. [04:10:46.130 – 04:10:56.770] I couldn't afford a hamburger, but I knew that if you got a bunch of reasonable, intelligent people together, anybody knows how much food costs, [04:10:56.770 – 04:11:06.130] anybody knows how much a dinner costs, and certainly people would calculate their proportionate share- -and donate accordingly. [04:11:06.130 – 04:11:08.310] Well, I mean, it's logical, isn't it?

[04:11:08.310 – 04:11:13.050] So I put the buckets out, big buckets, 'cause it did go have a lot of money. [04:11:13.050 – 04:11:17.109] I got $47. [04:11:17.109 – 04:11:18.790] Oh, Jesus. [04:11:18.790 – 04:11:21.390] I, I stood there holding that 47. [04:11:21.390 – 04:11:25.630] I, I said, "By God, I'm gonna have to go back to jail for doing God's work. [04:11:25.630 – 04:11:29.250] Man, they're gonna come get me." And I wouldn't live long enough to pay that debt. [04:11:29.250 – 04:11:39.550] And but it's amazing thing about thank God for the intimacy of that culture back then because the word got around, and folks just basically said, "Well,

[04:11:39.550 – 04:11:45.270] the old boy not real smart, but he's well-intentioned." "We'll bail him out." So they did. [04:11:45.270 – 04:11:51.370] Now, I guarantee you, that is the last thing I have ever done that I did. [04:11:51.370 – 04:11:59.550] Man, this is a we deal, and I have never paddled that boat alone again, you know, unless I was, re- really was able and willing to pay the whole tab. [04:11:59.550 – 04:12:02.130] But good God, it was a great learning experience. [04:12:02.130 – 04:12:08.510] But it was also a great, uh, a great trigger for getting AA known, which was the whole purpose of that.

[04:12:08.510 – 04:12:11.550] Everybody in that town knew about AA in one fell swoop. [04:12:11.550 – 04:12:20.230] I, I, I just tell, well, I have to tell you just one more that was, uh, uh, one of the finest CPC jobs I ever did, Cooperation with the Professional Community. [04:12:20.230 – 04:12:21.970] I didn't think that's what it was. [04:12:21.970 – 04:12:27.030] I had a 12-step call, and I had a kind of a, kind of a lead leader type, manager type fella. [04:12:27.030 – 04:12:33.290] And, and I'd caught on, you know, after a while, you know, that, that, oh, that guy didn't want help.

[04:12:33.290 – 04:12:36.410] All he wanted to do is get away from his wife so he could get a drink. [04:12:36.410 – 04:12:38.350] And so I beat on him as long as I could. [04:12:38.350 – 04:12:48.390] You know, and I, I've always made it so it made, back then, made it a, probably would now, made it kind of a cardinal rule in that I wouldn't buy a guy a drink till I was confident [04:12:48.390 – 04:12:50.030] I couldn't help him. [04:12:50.030 – 04:12:53.050] And then if I get to the point I know I can't help him, I spring for a drink.

[04:12:53.050 – 04:12:55.670] So I finally got to that point about 3:00, 4:00 in the morning. [04:12:55.670 – 04:12:57.310] I said, "All right. [04:12:57.310 – 04:12:59.610] Where's your favorite bootlegger?" And he named one I didn't know. [04:12:59.610 – 04:13:00.530] I thought I knew them all. [04:13:00.530 – 04:13:03.030] He named one grungy place. [04:13:03.030 – 04:13:04.730] God, I don't think I went to a place like it. [04:13:04.730 – 04:13:05.889] It looked like an opium den. [04:13:05.889 – 04:13:10.630] And it, it, you're just a bunch of old drunks out wobbling, all falling in the floor, and all that. [04:13:10.630 – 04:13:13.750] Well, they never raided bootleggers in that town.

[04:13:13.750 – 04:13:14.710] I mean, never. [04:13:14.710 – 04:13:16.770] Almost never. [04:13:16.770 – 04:13:23.630] I'm in there squiring my drunk while he buys some liquor they ain't never seen a tra- a tax seal. [04:13:23.630 – 04:13:27.870] And, uh, all at once, cop cars came from everywhere. [04:13:28.672 – 04:13:30.772] And they look like they're raiding a rock. [04:13:30.772 – 04:13:32.232] You know, here they come in here with their… [04:13:32.232 – 04:13:37.412] And they come in, and they're loading these drunks up, dragging them across the floor. [04:13:37.412 – 04:13:38.832] And this one cop kept looking at me. [04:13:38.832 – 04:13:42.092] I'm sitting, standing over there looking like a young Ivy League lawyer or something.

[04:13:42.092 – 04:13:44.662] He kept looking at me, and he finally couldn't stand it. [04:13:44.662 – 04:13:54.732] He came over, he said, "What are you doing here?" I said, "Man, you wouldn't believe it." And he said, "Well, give me a try." And so I told him, and [04:13:54.732 – 04:13:55.652] he said, "You're right. [04:13:55.652 – 04:14:00.412] That's the darndest thing I've ever heard of." And, and he gave me the drunk. [04:14:00.412 – 04:14:03.292] He gave me that totally illegal whiskey. [04:14:03.292 – 04:14:06.012] And from then on, he gave me hell. [04:14:06.012 – 04:14:08.092] That was CPC. [04:14:08.092 – 04:14:11.272] I guarantee you, that police department learned quickly.

[04:14:11.272 – 04:14:16.012] When you got somebody in there tearing up the jail, here's the guy you call. [04:14:16.012 – 04:14:18.912] And God knows, man, they about ran me to death there. [04:14:18.912 – 04:14:20.551] But it really got the word out. [04:14:20.551 – 04:14:21.252] Yeah. [04:14:21.252 – 04:14:23.072] And so it was worth it. [04:14:23.072 – 04:14:24.912] But some days I wonder, you know. [04:14:24.912 – 04:14:26.772] So they were, they were good days, you know. [04:14:26.772 – 04:14:30.212] They were lively days, and they were action-packed days. [04:14:30.212 – 04:14:32.752] And there were some real values that came out of that. [04:14:32.752 – 04:14:36.772] And, uh, you know, and, and, and what happened?

[04:14:36.772 – 04:14:38.512] You know, we, we were growing slowly. [04:14:38.512 – 04:14:40.272] And what happened? [04:14:40.272 – 04:14:42.291] You know, we, we trudged along like that. [04:14:42.291 – 04:14:51.712] And then, again, I'm not real precise on dates, but something happened that was to have enormous impact on this whole world of how we deal with alcoholism. [04:14:51.712 – 04:14:54.871] It, it was, it was, it was, it was called treatment. [04:14:54.871 – 04:14:56.232] When, when the, the, the… [04:14:56.232 – 04:15:04.732] After the, the hospital started grudgingly opening up and insurance started offering payment, there was a phenomenal thing happened in this country.

[04:15:04.732 – 04:15:12.262] That where we had had total locked doors all at once, there were doors opened all over this country. [04:15:12.262 – 04:15:22.912] And I would have never believed it, but I saw a time when treatment for alcoholism was available almost on demand practically [04:15:22.912 – 04:15:24.052] anywhere in this country. [04:15:24.052 – 04:15:28.912] And it had enormous implications for, for, for us. [04:15:28.912 – 04:15:32.232] And, and so that happened all at once. [04:15:32.232 – 04:15:34.952] And, and it's am-amazing what happened. [04:15:34.952 – 04:15:38.212] Now, I guarantee you, I am deeply grateful for that. [04:15:38.212 – 04:15:40.452] I am de– I've never been through treatment.

[04:15:40.452 – 04:15:44.712] But I am deeply grateful because I've been to too many funerals. [04:15:44.712 – 04:15:46.292] I've been to too many suicides. [04:15:46.292 – 04:15:52.352] I've, I've had far too much of, of dealing with drunks in back alleys and back, back doors. [04:15:52.352 – 04:15:57.772] I was deeply grateful to see alcoholism treated with dignity in a professional setting. [04:15:57.772 – 04:16:00.392] So I was delighted with it. [04:16:00.392 – 04:16:05.512] And yet, like any-anything, there's always baggage associated with that. [04:16:05.512 – 04:16:12.092] And, and so it, it started to have some really profound impacts on it, on, on, on us.

[04:16:12.092 – 04:16:14.512] And it wasn't by design. [04:16:14.512 – 04:16:16.112] And I don't… [04:16:16.112 – 04:16:21.572] Personally, I don't think it was anything we can lay blame at the door of the treatment world. [04:16:21.572 – 04:16:28.012] I honestly believe that what happened was that we did not react well to that. [04:16:28.012 – 04:16:29.952] We didn't react well to that emergence. [04:16:29.952 – 04:16:39.972] And rather than recognizing a new force in our, in our, in our, in our country, a new method of dealing with alcoholics, we didn't do [04:16:39.972 – 04:16:41.052] that, it doesn't seem to me.

[04:16:41.052 – 04:16:51.072] Seemed to me like what we did was sort of back off and saw treatment as replacing our work, where there was no longer real, real [04:16:51.072 – 04:16:52.692] pressing need for 12-step work. [04:16:52.692 – 04:17:00.852] And as we backed away, we, we sort of got overwhelmed by this, by this new animal that was here. [04:17:00.852 – 04:17:03.192] And all at once, we've– we don't have to go hunt drunks. [04:17:03.192 – 04:17:06.422] They're being just, just herded into our rooms, you know. [04:17:06.422 – 04:17:13.222] Uh, I had a guy call me one night at, in, in my little community, and he– they had started a group called the Newcomers Group.

[04:17:13.222 – 04:17:23.232] And he called me, he said, "Tom, we got a real problem over here." "What?" He said, "Well, you know we've started this new group, and last night a bus drove up [04:17:23.232 – 04:17:27.872] and 40-something people got off the bus." I said, "My God, man, what's the problem? [04:17:27.872 – 04:17:35.212] You got worlds of stuff to do." He said, "We can't even buy the coffee. [04:17:35.212 – 04:17:36.672] You know, we, we got a Mr. [04:17:36.672 – 04:17:39.012] Coffee type of little 10-cup thing. [04:17:39.012 – 04:17:49.051] What are we gonna do with a busload of people?" I said, "Well, you gotta get more money for one thing." But that was an overwhelming kind of a problem that just, just,

[04:17:49.051 – 04:17:50.272] just wreaked havoc. [04:17:50.272 – 04:17:54.831] And, and so it had some overwhelming qualities to it. [04:17:54.831 – 04:18:00.512] There were some other things that generated in that that I think had some real impact on what happened. [04:18:00.512 – 04:18:06.112] You know, what was it that happened that started to significantly change some of the methods that we use? [04:18:06.112 – 04:18:11.552] One was that treatment was overrated, I believe. [04:18:11.552 – 04:18:16.392] You know, now I'm not expert on that, but I've, I've worked with many thousands of people coming out. [04:18:16.392 – 04:18:26.452] And particularly in the early days, there were some glorified notions about, about the efficacy of prison– of, of, of treatment and, and how much effectiveness it

[04:18:26.452 – 04:18:26.752] had. [04:18:26.752 – 04:18:31.072] And, and 80% and 90% success rates were, were just all over the place. [04:18:31.072 – 04:18:38.812] And the, the common language was that 30 days in treatment was equivalent to a year, up to five years in AA. [04:18:38.812 – 04:18:42.152] Well, a lot of folks believed that. [04:18:42.152 – 04:18:47.612] And so when people would come in from treatment, we would tend to sort of yield to them. [04:18:47.612 – 04:18:52.972] You know, like these are, these are sort of graduate students that have come out of finishing school.

[04:18:52.972 – 04:19:00.052] But what we didn't recognize is that somebody coming out of treatment is in day one of recovery. [04:19:00.052 – 04:19:01.232] Day one. [04:19:01.232 – 04:19:03.112] But we didn't factor that in. [04:19:03.112 – 04:19:06.072] We didn't, we didn't think that through very well, I don't believe. [04:19:06.072 – 04:19:08.372] The other thing was that we developed… [04:19:08.372 – 04:19:13.812] You know, so you've heard it said somewhere that if we ever die, it'll be from the inside. [04:19:13.812 – 04:19:23.832] You know, if we start losing and hardening in our attitudes about our need for other alcoholics, stuff I was talking about in the earlier session, that I need the alcoholic more

[04:19:23.832 – 04:19:24.692] than he needs me. [04:19:24.692 – 04:19:30.192] If I ever lose that, we'll have a fatal flaw in this thing we call the alcoholic phenomenon. [04:19:30.192 – 04:19:38.020] And, and I think what, what, what, what it looked like to me happened We were used to alcoholics coming in that door. [04:19:38.020 – 04:19:39.920] We were accustomed to that. [04:19:39.920 – 04:19:41.020] That was our habit pattern. [04:19:41.020 – 04:19:41.700] That's what happened. [04:19:41.700 – 04:19:44.360] We got them out of bootleg joints, and we rescued them from cops. [04:19:44.360 – 04:19:45.500] That's where they came in. [04:19:45.500 – 04:19:48.200] When treatment emerged, they started coming in that door.

[04:19:48.200 – 04:19:58.419] But rather than adapting to a new starting point with alcoholics, I think what we did is kept looking at this door and got mad because they weren't coming in here, [04:19:58.420 – 04:20:00.420] and then not dealing effectively with that. [04:20:00.420 – 04:20:06.880] I, I just don't think we adapted well to, to that emergence of a new reality in, in, in what we're dealing with, with alcoholism. [04:20:06.880 – 04:20:11.339] And so it had some, some, some real impact. [04:20:11.339 – 04:20:17.720] And that was a, a thing that a lot of stuff happened that, that, that came out of that that would be under the heading of what happened to that.

[04:20:17.720 – 04:20:22.760] The growth in AA meetings was exponential. [04:20:22.760 – 04:20:25.440] I mean, that growth just absolutely took off. [04:20:25.440 – 04:20:33.840] And you could safely bet that anywhere a treatment center was put, you could count on doubling the AA meetings within the immediate area. [04:20:33.840 – 04:20:42.740] That it would just come because of that, that real exaggerated emphasis on, you know, ninety meetings in ninety days, and you gotta do all of this stuff. [04:20:42.740 – 04:20:46.800] And so it generated an awful lot of things that are, are troubling to me.

[04:20:46.800 – 04:20:57.680] I think of all the things that are troubling to me in AA, probably my greatest one is what happened in dealing with that, where we started to develop a culture [04:20:57.680 – 04:21:07.500] not of real purposeful groups, you know, that were meeting with real solidity and, and, and, and, and, and that kind of thing, with a real bond of, of trust and, and a deal. [04:21:07.500 – 04:21:18.080] We started to develop sort of handy meetings, just sort of gathering places where people would meet, and it was almost like aftercare.

[04:21:18.080 – 04:21:22.940] You know, we would j-just meet and just sort of talk about day and problem and this kind of stuff. [04:21:22.940 – 04:21:28.260] And, and, and it, it just, it just not only happened, but it's happening now. [04:21:28.260 – 04:21:38.260] And, and the, those things are hugely popular, but they really pose some challenges for a lot of things in Alcoholics Anonymous as [04:21:38.260 – 04:21:40.420] we practice it. [04:21:40.420 – 04:21:42.680] For example, the, um… [04:21:42.680 – 04:21:52.700] If you look, if you, you know, the, it's kind of like I was saying a little earlier today, if you put on a continuum up here, like a

[04:21:52.700 – 04:22:02.060] group like mine, which is a strong, structured, purposeful group, anybody who comes in there knows they're into a group where there's nothing up for grabs. [04:22:02.060 – 04:22:05.880] You know, this is planful, purposeful, and, and, and solid. [04:22:05.880 – 04:22:07.880] You're not gonna be changing anything there real quick. [04:22:07.880 – 04:22:09.940] And that's one. [04:22:09.940 – 04:22:11.960] And, and that's almost an extreme. [04:22:11.960 – 04:22:17.640] It's not as extreme as some, but it's a solid, purposeful kind of group, and you don't have any problem figuring that out. [04:22:17.640 – 04:22:26.760] And you look on the other end, and at the other end of it, you'll find meetings that are not groups at all, really.

[04:22:26.760 – 04:22:29.260] They're just sort of gathering places. [04:22:29.260 – 04:22:39.500] And the, the, the, the, the, the problem that worries me about that is that the only real value to the meeting is the meeting itself. [04:22:39.500 – 04:22:46.640] Nothing precedes it, and nothing follows it, unless you just happen to strike up an acquaintance or something. [04:22:46.640 – 04:22:52.700] But it's just sort of a gaggle of, of people that meet and then get what they want and go their separate ways. [04:22:52.700 – 04:23:03.480] Well, I would submit to you that that's an awfully limited agenda for recovery because it's, it, it's not only limited for recovery because it's problem-oriented

[04:23:03.480 – 04:23:07.900] and problem-solving and all this kind of stuff, which is not what AA meeting's about. [04:23:07.900 – 04:23:09.560] AA meeting's about solutions. [04:23:09.560 – 04:23:13.060] And so it's, uh, it's troubling in that sense. [04:23:13.060 – 04:23:18.660] It's also troubling in what does it contribute to Alcoholics Anonymous? [04:23:18.660 – 04:23:23.080] What does it cons– what does it contribute to the wellness of our fellowship? [04:23:23.080 – 04:23:24.500] Why is that important? [04:23:24.500 – 04:23:27.380] Well, I, I'll tell you why I think it's important. [04:23:27.380 – 04:23:31.780] We talked about leadership a little earlier. [04:23:31.780 – 04:23:35.600] Leadership is vital in Alcoholics Anonymous.

[04:23:35.600 – 04:23:41.280] You will find little leadership generated in casual meetings. [04:23:41.280 – 04:23:46.900] Most of them have one office, maybe some none. [04:23:46.900 – 04:23:49.760] Some officers are set up right before the meeting. [04:23:49.760 – 04:23:56.550] It says, "Al, you do it tonight." About that much, and that's the extent of it. [04:23:56.550 – 04:23:58.660] Very typically, don't have GSRs. [04:23:58.660 – 04:24:01.600] And without a GSR, there is no [04:24:01.759 – 04:24:03.369] Connection to the fellowship. [04:24:03.369 – 04:24:07.839] It's just an isolated group of alcoholics that are meeting for purpose. [04:24:07.839 – 04:24:12.999] Now that, that's, that is a liberty that we enjoy.

[04:24:12.999 – 04:24:16.039] We're absolutely free. [04:24:16.039 – 04:24:21.879] The, uh, the, the definition of a group in Alcoholics Anonymous is as liberal as I could possibly imagine. [04:24:21.879 – 04:24:33.119] Two or more alcoholics gathered together for the purpose of re– of sobriety and recovery may call themselves an AA group, provided [04:24:33.119 – 04:24:34.219] they have no other affiliation. [04:24:34.219 – 04:24:36.979] Now, my God, does that ever open it up? [04:24:36.979 – 04:24:43.379] The one on this extreme is just as viable as an AA group as the one over here. [04:24:43.379 – 04:24:44.579] But are they the same thing?

[04:24:44.579 – 04:24:46.339] Worlds apart, eh? [04:24:46.339 – 04:24:47.559] Worlds apart. [04:24:47.559 – 04:24:55.119] And so it creates some, some, some real s- real stuff when you start looking at the long picture. [04:24:55.119 – 04:24:59.699] You know, I was talking earlier, I know everybody wasn't there, but we were talking about… [04:24:59.699 – 04:25:10.039] And I just kind of threw in that in dealing with Singleness of Purpose, I thought one of the things we needed to have was a group's conscience of the whole world of AA about how– what we really believe

[04:25:10.039 – 04:25:11.499] about s- Singleness of Purpose. [04:25:11.499 – 04:25:15.539] Well, I mean, that's not, not really a realistic thing, but I think that's exactly it. [04:25:15.539 – 04:25:25.699] Well, when you're dealing with this kind of, of gatherings, there won't be any participation in that group conscience where there's no connection to the fellowship. [04:25:25.699 – 04:25:30.579] It's just sort of a gaggle of folks that meet and, and, and, and will contribute darn little. [04:25:30.579 – 04:25:32.539] That's, that's troubling. [04:25:32.539 – 04:25:34.179] It's, it's troubling kind of stuff. [04:25:34.179 – 04:25:44.219] And it's troubling to me that of all the stuff, that is my single biggest concern, is the

[04:25:44.219 – 04:25:54.239] lack of real solid, purposeful groups that are designed and purpose-oriented, and the unbelievable proliferation of, of those kinds [04:25:54.239 – 04:25:55.219] of lightweight things. [04:25:55.219 – 04:25:57.059] And it's troubling. [04:25:57.059 – 04:26:00.399] It's troubling because of that lack of contri- of contribution. [04:26:00.399 – 04:26:03.199] That how does it contribute to the group conscience? [04:26:03.199 – 04:26:09.399] I, I'll tell you one other thing with- without belaboring that too much, but probably couldn't belabor it too much. [04:26:09.399 – 04:26:15.439] You– I, I s- I may say maybe some people here m- may won't know what I'm talking about.

[04:26:15.439 – 04:26:20.579] But we have, we have a vaunted principle called the inverted triangle. [04:26:20.579 – 04:26:27.979] And, and what it says is that AA's like this, that it's driven from the grassroots. [04:26:27.979 – 04:26:32.739] There is no authority at the headquarters level. [04:26:32.739 – 04:26:36.799] There is no authority that is downward in focus. [04:26:36.799 – 04:26:43.059] That decision-making in Alcoholics Anonymous is driven by the grassroots of Alcoholics Anonymous. [04:26:43.059 – 04:26:45.579] Now, that's a wonderful theory. [04:26:45.579 – 04:26:51.179] The only problem is, it's a theory and not a fact. [04:26:51.179 – 04:26:53.779] And I'll tell you why I say that.

[04:26:53.779 – 04:27:03.899] If you, and I have, if you, if you look around the typical state in the US of A, [04:27:03.899 – 04:27:14.379] when we gather to bring the group conscience to a, to influence decision-making in AA, we [04:27:14.379 – 04:27:19.319] get anywhere from about twenty-two to twenty-three percent. [04:27:19.319 – 04:27:20.609] Right in there is where it'll hover. [04:27:20.609 – 04:27:22.839] Participation in the process. [04:27:22.839 – 04:27:25.459] You hear what I'm saying? [04:27:25.459 – 04:27:28.519] You're talking about a grassroots-driven thing. [04:27:28.519 – 04:27:38.619] When you've got twenty, twenty-two percent participation, what you've got is a minority opinion, not a group conscience, not a grassroots-driven

[04:27:38.619 – 04:27:39.179] fellowship. [04:27:39.179 – 04:27:49.379] And so what we wind up with, and thank God for them, we wind up with, with a small group of people who are willing to shoulder [04:27:49.379 – 04:27:52.719] the responsibility and make up for our absence. [04:27:52.719 – 04:27:55.479] And God knows I'm grateful for them. [04:27:55.479 – 04:28:00.979] And often we react to them by saying, "Well, they're the politicians of AA. [04:28:00.979 – 04:28:03.949] They're, they're servants of AA. [04:28:03.949 – 04:28:09.779] They're servants of AA." People who are willing to take that responsibility, and I'm grateful for that. [04:28:09.779 – 04:28:18.419] But it calls serious question to this whole business about how much we participate in the process of the fellowship to which we're committed.

[04:28:18.419 – 04:28:26.159] And so I hope you'll, you'll– I hope you'll hear this and, and, and give thought to that because to me it's a very troubling thing. [04:28:26.159 – 04:28:29.539] People are free to meet any way they want to. [04:28:29.539 – 04:28:31.379] It's kind of like that autonomy. [04:28:31.379 – 04:28:41.079] But when we start to operate in a way that makes no contribution whatsoever, that's totally isolated from the fellowship, I seriously question the value. [04:28:41.079 – 04:28:48.039] And so it's one of the things that happened with this explosion of the, of these kinds– and they're highly popular because they're not, they're not challenging.

[04:28:48.039 – 04:28:53.079] Most of them tend to be scheduled at times of convenience. [04:28:53.079 – 04:28:55.019] Happy hour groups. [04:28:55.019 – 04:28:57.729] Very, very few large cities don't have a happy hour group. [04:28:57.729 – 04:29:00.339] Brown bag group at lunchtime. [04:29:00.339 – 04:29:02.779] So you don't have to dress up, suit up, do anything like that. [04:29:02.779 – 04:29:05.279] All you gotta do is just drop in, get what you need, move on. [04:29:05.279 – 04:29:12.059] And we started to create a, a society of nomadic members that just kind of drift from one place to another. [04:29:12.059 – 04:29:14.339] It's like hummingbirds.

[04:29:14.339 – 04:29:17.699] They go around and suck a little sap here and suck a little there. [04:29:17.699 – 04:29:21.759] And then well, that's a nice diversion. [04:29:21.759 – 04:29:32.119] But if you've got concerns about this program staying healthy and solid so that your children and their children [04:29:32.119 – 04:29:37.519] will have a place to go, I would suggest to you that these are formidable considerations. [04:29:37.519 – 04:29:42.619] They're things that happen and have unbelievable impact in, in our program. [04:29:42.619 – 04:29:52.019] So yeah, a lot of stuff happened that, that, uh, that started to build some, uh, some real, real, real problems.

[04:29:52.019 – 04:29:54.879] I have trouble reading my notes when I write small. [04:29:54.879 – 04:29:56.379] Uh… [04:29:56.379 – 04:30:03.679] Well, I've only got twenty and I've covered four. [04:30:03.679 – 04:30:13.719] So I tell you what I'm, I'm gonna let you use your imagination on, on that, uh, now, because I am gonna quit on time, and I didn't quite start on time, so I may cheat [04:30:13.719 – 04:30:14.829] three minutes, but that's about all. [04:30:14.829 – 04:30:23.927] But if, if, if you sort of get the drift of what I'm talking about, and, and I could just give you a repetition of many, many things that just put different curves on that.

[04:30:23.927 – 04:30:28.967] But there, there are troubling things when you look at the terrain that we call al-alcoholic synonymous. [04:30:28.967 – 04:30:30.807] There, there are some real reasons for concern. [04:30:30.807 – 04:30:36.267] And what we're like now, what are we like now? [04:30:36.267 – 04:30:43.827] Well, I've, I've alluded to that a little bit in this, this composition of how we're made up and how we meet and the various ways we do it. [04:30:43.827 – 04:30:49.277] If you look at, uh, this is kind of following up a little bit on that, that low level of participation.

[04:30:49.277 – 04:30:59.637] If you look at our structure, if you look at the national level, at the level of the General Service Conference, I'll guarantee you we will compare with any Fortune [04:30:59.637 – 04:31:06.487] 500 company with excellence in management and administration and how we conduct business. [04:31:06.487 – 04:31:10.567] My God, we, we, we put a lot of Fortune 500 countries to shame. [04:31:10.567 – 04:31:12.487] We do a beautiful job. [04:31:12.487 – 04:31:22.517] But as you incrementally move down toward the grassroots where it's supposed to emerge, it gets uglier and uglier and

[04:31:22.517 – 04:31:23.047] uglier. [04:31:23.047 – 04:31:33.267] And so you wind up, and I know I'm not, I might be singing to the choir here, you wind up with districts trying to meet, and they'll have 75 groups there [04:31:33.267 – 04:31:37.367] or 40 groups and get eight at the, at, to, to show up for the district. [04:31:37.367 – 04:31:39.687] Well, I mean, come on now. [04:31:39.687 – 04:31:41.687] K- what kind of a ship is this, you know? [04:31:41.687 – 04:31:47.107] But they're the kind of things that, that I, I, I really hope that, that, that, that you'll give some thought to.

[04:31:47.107 – 04:31:55.987] And, and it's, it's when we start thinking beyond just me and my needs that real growth and real joy comes in this program. [04:31:55.987 – 04:32:02.827] When all I do is think about me and mine, that's a lousy treatment for a self-centered condition. [04:32:02.827 – 04:32:05.487] And so these kinds of things can really challenge you. [04:32:05.487 – 04:32:12.287] They'll, if you, if you're somebody who's got a mind that, that is, that hungry to do stuff, these are things that'll challenge you. [04:32:12.287 – 04:32:14.287] How do you deal with these kinds of problems?

[04:32:14.287 – 04:32:17.847] And, and, and so I, and I think they are s- a serious kinds of issue. [04:32:17.847 – 04:32:28.127] The, um, specialty groups, uh, they're far more than, uh, than, [04:32:28.127 – 04:32:28.687] uh, used to be. [04:32:28.687 – 04:32:35.547] We've, we've got all kind of groups now that, uh, and it, and groups are free to meet any way they want to. [04:32:35.547 – 04:32:44.827] But we get more and more of trying to make the program accommodate the people rather than the people trying to come into the program. [04:32:44.827 – 04:32:49.027] And so we start getting a screw to fit every nut, you know, no matter which way it goes.

[04:32:49.027 – 04:32:51.426] And so it, we just get a proliferation of things. [04:32:51.426 – 04:32:53.247] They take off in all kind of directions. [04:32:53.247 – 04:32:55.327] The, um… [04:32:55.327 – 04:33:05.527] Well, [04:33:05.527 – 04:33:06.887] anyway, there, there's a whole bunch. [04:33:06.887 – 04:33:13.627] We, we kind of move in, we're a strange kind of a, a culture i-in this country, and we, we're no different in AA. [04:33:13.627 – 04:33:23.987] There's an interesting thing going on right now that, uh, you know, it's just like in our society, that we rarely come to a happy [04:33:23.987 – 04:33:25.027] medium place. [04:33:25.027 – 04:33:35.037] We either swing from one extreme to another extreme, and then sometimes we'll come close to, to sort of a, a, of, of a staying

[04:33:35.037 – 04:33:35.387] place. [04:33:35.387 – 04:33:37.367] But we go to one extreme to the other. [04:33:37.367 – 04:33:47.567] I think we're doing that in AA right now, where we went, like I mentioned in, in the beginning of this, where we had real heavy action, real heavy sponsorship, [04:33:47.567 – 04:33:51.327] real heavy allegiance in the thing, and we moved away. [04:33:51.327 – 04:34:01.707] And then, then we got into this period that we're in now where we just became a prolific place for folks to meet and with a real me orientation, [04:34:01.707 – 04:34:02.547] you know, in, in the thing.

[04:34:02.547 – 04:34:08.007] So we're in that, the kind of a get what you need, look after yourself, be well kind of a mood. [04:34:08.007 – 04:34:10.507] So we're there. [04:34:10.507 – 04:34:18.247] And we've got an awful lot of problems that have generated from this kind of laxness in, in how we're, we're, we're, we're handling the program. [04:34:18.247 – 04:34:28.527] And right now there's starting to be in this country a sort of a super righteous correction where [04:34:28.527 – 04:34:34.687] we've got people that are starting, oh, call it what you will.

[04:34:35.445 – 04:34:41.465] But super rigid, absolute, this is the way it is, and there ain't no other way. [04:34:41.465 – 04:34:46.365] Well, you know, that's going from one extreme to another extreme. [04:34:46.365 – 04:34:56.465] And I suspect there's as much trouble, because when you get this sort of super right, this is the right way, that's as much a [04:34:56.465 – 04:34:58.145] specialty group as any other. [04:34:58.145 – 04:35:01.065] That's the true believers. [04:35:01.065 – 04:35:03.425] You know, that's the, the real righteous folk. [04:35:03.425 – 04:35:06.765] And that really isn't, uh, y- what our fellowship's about. [04:35:06.765 – 04:35:09.325] But I, it's, it's what I think we're doing right now.

[04:35:09.325 – 04:35:12.005] That's just, that's just one guy's observation. [04:35:12.005 – 04:35:20.485] But when, when I take a look at that, it makes me nervous about this thing, that, that this thing's starting to turn into some kind of a boot camp of recovery. [04:35:20.485 – 04:35:24.165] And, uh, you can have all that you want. [04:35:24.165 – 04:35:27.225] I've had more than that, than, of that than I care for. [04:35:27.225 – 04:35:32.245] And, and so we, we, it's, it's a sort of a self-correction that's going on. [04:35:32.245 – 04:35:42.325] Now, I like to think that guys like me who are voices of reason and not just highly opinionated or anything like that,

[04:35:42.325 – 04:35:45.105] that say, "Come on, let's reason together here. [04:35:45.105 – 04:35:47.665] Let's come in here and just get this closed ranks," and, you know. [04:35:47.665 – 04:35:52.665] Well, anyway, we, we got a time of serious flux in AA. [04:35:52.665 – 04:35:58.645] And so what we're like now, we're big, I think. [04:35:58.645 – 04:36:02.805] If, whatever the numbers mean, we got a gang of it. [04:36:02.805 – 04:36:04.585] We got a ton of meetings. [04:36:04.585 – 04:36:08.445] You know, that we do have a nomadic culture in here now where… [04:36:08.445 – 04:36:10.925] I know it's kind of a mention about the nose count.

[04:36:10.925 – 04:36:18.175] I, I told somebody the other day, we, we were talking about this, this sort of just multiplication of these little old meetings. [04:36:18.175 – 04:36:24.605] That little town, we, I live in Mayberry, and we've got probably 30 meetings in that little old town. [04:36:24.605 – 04:36:27.905] I told somebody the other day, we were talking about that. [04:36:27.905 – 04:36:37.905] I said, "I just have a feeling if somebody rang a great big bell and said, 'Everybody report to your home group,' I think half the meeting places would be empty."

[04:36:37.905 – 04:36:45.605] You know, 'cause it's just a group of migrating people that just wander around and spread joy, uh, or, or whatever. [04:36:45.605 – 04:36:48.495] You know what you have to… [04:36:48.495 – 04:36:51.245] They, we are getting big. [04:36:51.245 – 04:36:56.484] It's a very interesting growth out of that, that emergence of treatment. [04:36:56.484 – 04:37:01.505] You know, we went for, how long did we go before we sold a million big books? [04:37:01.505 – 04:37:04.865] How long did it take to sell the first million? [04:37:04.865 – 04:37:06.105] 25 years or something? [04:37:06.105 – 04:37:07.065] I think so. [04:37:07.065 – 04:37:07.265] Huh? [04:37:07.265 – 04:37:08.015] More.

[04:37:08.015 – 04:37:09.605] Yeah, long time, didn't it? [04:37:09.605 – 04:37:10.605] Long time. [04:37:10.605 – 04:37:19.605] For a good while, by the way, after treatment emerged, we sold a million a year. [04:37:19.605 – 04:37:22.925] Is that a huge change or something? [04:37:22.925 – 04:37:23.985] Yeah. [04:37:23.985 – 04:37:25.425] A million a year. [04:37:25.425 – 04:37:28.805] And now that's on the decline again. [04:37:28.805 – 04:37:30.745] Because guess what? [04:37:30.745 – 04:37:31.505] So is treatment. [04:37:31.505 – 04:37:39.385] And so a lot of stuff going on that, that, uh, that just sort of caused some real question to how we do business. [04:37:39.385 – 04:37:46.065] And, uh, yeah, we, we like to glory in that notion of being self-supporting and the dignity that provides.

[04:37:46.065 – 04:37:52.085] But it's like I said earlier, that we've never been s- self-supporting for one day. [04:37:52.085 – 04:37:57.865] And if, and to this day, if it weren't for literature sales, we'd be out of business. [04:37:57.865 – 04:37:59.885] So we never have. [04:37:59.885 – 04:38:10.405] It's, it's the sta- statistical fact that last number I read was that about 42% of registered groups contribute, [04:38:10.405 – 04:38:14.565] and 58% carry the load. [04:38:14.565 – 04:38:19.805] Now, 58% take a free ride, 42% carry the load. [04:38:19.805 – 04:38:22.164] Something wrong with that picture, you know. [04:38:22.164 – 04:38:32.245] And, and there are things that, you know, these are things that I just think that we need to give thought to, that, that, that really cause serious concern when we take a look at who

[04:38:32.245 – 04:38:36.125] we are, where we are, how we're carrying out our responsibility. [04:38:36.125 – 04:38:45.885] And I started out by prefacing what I had to say with not a single thing happened of, of this I'm talking about and much more. [04:38:45.885 – 04:38:49.065] Not a single thing happened except on my watch. [04:38:49.065 – 04:38:52.705] And so I take a lot of responsibility. [04:38:52.705 – 04:38:56.745] I know I'm just one guy, but I, but one guy can make a difference. [04:38:56.745 – 04:39:01.185] If you've got the facts and will take the actions, one guy can make a difference.

[04:39:01.185 – 04:39:04.345] You can make a difference wherever you are. [04:39:04.345 – 04:39:14.705] And so what I'm really hoping to see, I'm hoping to see, not only hoping, but doing everything I can to contribute to it, I want to see a development [04:39:14.705 – 04:39:17.585] of good, strong groups around this country. [04:39:17.585 – 04:39:26.525] I think that's the most important thing in Alcoholics Anonymous, is good, strong groups that have a group conscience and have developed leadership and that kind of thing. [04:39:26.525 – 04:39:30.685] I think it's the most important thing here and the most missing.

[04:39:30.685 – 04:39:36.145] I, I'll tell you one other thing that's just troubling, and, and, uh, I'll share it with you for whatever it's worth. [04:39:36.145 – 04:39:40.125] Family is an important part. [04:39:40.125 – 04:39:45.925] Now, we do a lot of lip service to this, but, but most anybody will tell you that alcoholism is a family illness. [04:39:45.925 – 04:39:47.705] It doesn't happen in isolation. [04:39:47.705 – 04:39:53.065] For every alcoholic, there are several other people who are severely affected by the illness. [04:39:53.065 – 04:39:57.885] And we'll all say that, and we will vow allegiance to that.

[04:39:57.885 – 04:40:02.345] But our track record doesn't support our concern. [04:40:02.345 – 04:40:04.285] Let me invite you to do something. [04:40:04.285 – 04:40:13.485] The next time you go just to a regular conference, take a look at the makeup of that conference. [04:40:13.485 – 04:40:14.385] Take a look at it. [04:40:14.385 – 04:40:20.685] And bear in mind this, this party line that we're, it's a family illness and therefore a family program of recovery. [04:40:20.685 – 04:40:26.105] I was in a state just recently that, that I won't name, but it, you know, I don't think they'd mind, but I won't anyway.

[04:40:26.105 – 04:40:34.405] It's, uh, they, we had 3,200 members, 3,200 members of AA. [04:40:34.405 – 04:40:41.085] We had 240 members of Al-Anon. [04:40:41.085 – 04:40:44.365] Is there a little disparity in that? [04:40:44.365 – 04:40:46.285] A little disparity? [04:40:46.285 – 04:40:49.645] I'd say there's a big disparity in that. [04:40:49.645 – 04:40:54.125] Alateens, we had 41 or two. [04:40:54.125 – 04:41:00.085] I don't know how that strikes you, but that's troubling to me. [04:41:00.085 – 04:41:08.205] I don't know of any group in the world that's more emotional, more modeling, really, about family and kids. [04:41:08.205 – 04:41:11.765] You can just mention kids and half the drunks in the room will tear up.

[04:41:11.765 – 04:41:14.725] I mean, you don't have to say anything about them, just the kids. [04:41:14.725 – 04:41:15.925] Oh, yeah. [04:41:15.925 – 04:41:17.485] It's, it's amazing. [04:41:17.485 – 04:41:27.645] And yet you go to a conference and at the 3,200 at the AA meeting, when the Al-Anon speaks, it won't be half that. [04:41:27.645 – 04:41:30.245] If lucky, it might be a fourth. [04:41:30.245 – 04:41:37.605] When the Alateen speaks, they could almost hold their meeting in a phone booth. [04:41:37.605 – 04:41:41.685] Something, something weird with that picture. [04:41:41.685 – 04:41:43.545] It doesn't connect, does it? [04:41:43.545 – 04:41:49.005] If we're so concerned about family, why wouldn't it reflect in what we do?

[04:41:49.005 – 04:41:52.305] You know, it's like we almost boycott. [04:41:52.305 – 04:42:02.325] I've had Al-Anon kids stop in the hall and say, "Won't you please come to our meeting so we got somebody to talk to?" I was sitting in a meeting, Alateen meeting a [04:42:02.325 – 04:42:12.485] while back, and so somebody's mother came, one of the kid's mother came to me later and said, "I sure appreciate you being in that meeting." And I said, "Why?" She said, "My daughter came, [04:42:12.485 – 04:42:14.025] and she said, 'Mom, you won't believe it.

[04:42:14.025 – 04:42:19.905] Tom I was in that meeting.'" And I said, "Well, it meant something." I'm not the father, I don't think. [04:42:19.905 – 04:42:22.605] I, I did travel in that state. [04:42:22.605 – 04:42:25.385] But the kid was too young. [04:42:25.385 – 04:42:26.285] I couldn't. [04:42:26.285 – 04:42:29.665] But, you know, see what I'm, see what I'm talking about? [04:42:29.665 – 04:42:37.345] Part of that, and I don't want to beat those little nondescript meetings to death, but neither do I want to cut them any slack either. [04:42:37.345 – 04:42:46.365] Because if you look at that average gathering of people in that kind of, of meeting I'm talking about, where does the family get involved?

[04:42:46.365 – 04:42:48.465] What do they do? [04:42:48.465 – 04:42:50.705] How does family penetrate? [04:42:50.705 – 04:42:55.905] What we have– I mean, all it is, is sort of just drunks coming together and chatting. [04:42:55.905 – 04:42:56.165] Yeah. [04:42:56.165 – 04:42:59.085] There's no place for the family. [04:42:59.085 – 04:43:01.965] I would submit to you two things. [04:43:01.965 – 04:43:09.445] One, that the open speaker meeting is the purest form of Alcoholics Anonymous there is. [04:43:09.445 – 04:43:11.225] All right. [04:43:11.225 – 04:43:11.985] Purest form. [04:43:11.985 – 04:43:14.845] Because that's what alcoholics identify with. [04:43:14.845 – 04:43:19.345] They identify with somebody who was broken in the same place. [04:43:19.345 – 04:43:24.205] They ch- cry with the, the defeat and cheer with the victory.

[04:43:24.205 – 04:43:27.195] A wonderful thing that helps people get… [04:43:27.195 – 04:43:32.745] They don't identify with lofty philosophy and a whole bunch of dictums to do. [04:43:32.745 – 04:43:35.805] It's a matter of connecting at the human level. [04:43:35.805 – 04:43:38.405] Then you can grow into that stuff. [04:43:38.405 – 04:43:48.525] And, and so, so open speaker meetings, not only is valuable in that sense, but it may be the only social activity that [04:43:48.525 – 04:43:51.845] a new couple have that they can afford. [04:43:51.845 – 04:43:55.814] May not be able to afford to go out to dinner. [04:43:55.814 – 04:43:59.725] Maybe the donuts or cookies after the meeting could be the big night out.

[04:43:59.725 – 04:44:02.505] But we forget that kind of stuff sometimes. [04:44:02.505 – 04:44:12.505] And so I think it's enormously important that if, if it sounds like I'm, I'm trying to heap of troubling stuff on you, well, it's my last shot, so I, I got [04:44:12.505 – 04:44:18.385] to put as m- I, I got to put as much on you as I can because I don't want to be the only guy worried about this. [04:44:18.385 – 04:44:20.665] I want you to be worried about it. [04:44:20.665 – 04:44:28.945] Because in your town, I'll guarantee you that you can do something to address these problems wherever you live.

[04:44:28.945 – 04:44:32.705] And they– and you don't live anywhere that they don't exist. [04:44:32.705 – 04:44:33.925] I guarantee you that. [04:44:33.925 – 04:44:36.065] And so you can do something. [04:44:36.065 – 04:44:46.445] And that's what I hope will happen, that i- we need just sort of a quiet revolution, so we get back and take a look at our roots, take a look at where they've grown, [04:44:46.445 – 04:44:53.045] and then see what we can do to make this thing alive and well and ready for the long haul. [04:44:53.045 – 04:44:55.045] That's what I hope very much.

[04:44:55.045 – 04:44:59.785] So anyway, folks, it's quitting– I'm, I'm not ready to quit, but it's quitting time. [04:44:59.785 – 04:45:00.905] Thanks. [04:45:00.905 – 04:45:04.665] Thank you. [04:45:04.665 – 04:45:06.684] Thank you.