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[00:00:00.480 – 00:00:02.000] Tom, you're an alcoholic. [00:00:02.000 – 00:00:06.520] Member of the Primary Purpose group in Southern Pines, North Carolina. [00:00:06.520 – 00:00:11.980] Uh, my sobriety date is February 2nd of '57, and I'm delighted to be here. [00:00:11.980 – 00:00:22.480] I was gonna tell you about how fortunate I am in recovery to have remained young and vigorous and excited and all that, but you can't hide your infirmities [00:00:22.480 – 00:00:22.780] here. [00:00:22.780 – 00:00:25.400] I mean, my God, just see me laboring up those steps. [00:00:25.400 – 00:00:26.799] Barely made it. [00:00:26.799 – 00:00:33.940] Started to call 911 and said, "Give up." I am delighted to be here, and it's good.

[00:00:33.940 – 00:00:34.930] It's like coming home. [00:00:34.930 – 00:00:37.360] Lots of good friends in this group tonight. [00:00:37.360 – 00:00:45.560] Uh, I've noticed there's a well-developed characteristic in California, uh, ingenious thinking. [00:00:45.560 – 00:00:55.700] When they find out somebody's coming into town to do some AA thing, uh, I'm in town for the Ventura County Conference, [00:00:55.700 – 00:01:06.060] and, uh, when that news gets around, somebody will say, like they did in this case, I won't, I won't reveal her identity, [00:01:06.060 – 00:01:08.980] but her initials are Karen G- … [00:01:08.980 – 00:01:12.880] and said, "Well, that's a neat coincidence.

[00:01:12.880 – 00:01:16.860] Why don't you come speak to our Wednesday night group?" That's very handy. [00:01:16.860 – 00:01:17.760] It's only a week. [00:01:17.760 – 00:01:22.560] And so I readily agreed because you don't want to get Karen mad. [00:01:22.560 – 00:01:24.759] So I am delighted to be here. [00:01:24.759 – 00:01:34.500] Uh, I want to, I'll share as much as I can about the, uh, about, about exactly what we do, what, what I was like, what happened, what I'm like now. [00:01:34.500 – 00:01:41.900] And, uh, I really am a fortunate guy in that I have been able to maintain a pretty good level of energy.

[00:01:41.900 – 00:01:48.580] I've, I have been blessed for the most part with good health and have been able to stay active in the program up to this day. [00:01:48.580 – 00:01:58.600] Uh, I'm still somebody who is genuinely, deeply interested in what we do in Alcoholics Anonymous and excited about it and, uh, and, and find [00:01:58.600 – 00:02:01.360] the challenges just as real for me today as they've ever been. [00:02:01.360 – 00:02:11.880] And, uh, tell you, there's some folks who will, will tell you, I'm not one of them, but some folks will tell you that there's a fairly predictable cycle that occurs in recovery

[00:02:11.880 – 00:02:17.500] when you first come in, and it starts to happen, and you'll have that kind of white light experience or something. [00:02:17.500 – 00:02:22.180] And you, you get on a pink cloud, you know, kind of a honeymoon period. [00:02:22.180 – 00:02:31.160] And then at some rather predictable point, that will run its course, and then you'll taper off to something, mediocrity or, or something. [00:02:31.160 – 00:02:31.800] I don't know what. [00:02:31.800 – 00:02:38.640] And, uh, I'm here to tell you, I'm here to witness to you that that isn't necessarily so.

[00:02:38.640 – 00:02:48.680] What I've found is that the, the tremendous energy and excitement and enthusiasm that's generated in this program lasts as long as I do the [00:02:48.680 – 00:02:54.860] things that make it happen, and the minute I quit doing those things, it's naturally gonna die of starvation. [00:02:54.860 – 00:02:57.600] And so I am somebody who's still excited about this. [00:02:57.600 – 00:03:07.580] Only problem is that w- with the passage of time, my, uh, mind makes commitments that the body has trouble keeping up with. [00:03:07.580 – 00:03:09.660] Uh, but I want to keep on struggling.

[00:03:09.660 – 00:03:13.900] Um, you know, I'm a guy, I was a f- a sitting duck, really. [00:03:13.900 – 00:03:16.300] I was, I was a natural setup for trouble with alcohol. [00:03:16.300 – 00:03:18.120] I don't think I was born an alcoholic. [00:03:18.120 – 00:03:19.720] I acted like I was, but I wasn't. [00:03:19.720 – 00:03:23.560] Yeah, I was just like most people you hear talking AA. [00:03:23.560 – 00:03:27.780] I was somebody who was well prepared by… [00:03:27.780 – 00:03:31.320] I won't go into a lot of detail about it, but just, I'd love to, but I won't. [00:03:31.320 – 00:03:35.880] Uh, uh, about, you know, I learn what I live, of course.

[00:03:35.880 – 00:03:39.420] I learn by experience, and I develop by experience. [00:03:39.420 – 00:03:49.660] And I, just like anybody else coming up as a, as a youngster and through school and all that kind of stuff, experience life as every human does, with some of the disappointments [00:03:49.660 – 00:03:53.380] and the failures and, and some of the joy and all of the things that happen. [00:03:53.380 – 00:03:58.460] And in the course of that, uh, I had the normal things that happen to other people. [00:03:58.460 – 00:04:02.700] You know, uh, w- everybody has kind of reversals or disappointments.

[00:04:02.700 – 00:04:13.200] Some people are fortunate enough, blessed enough that when those things happen, they respond to them and become stronger than they would otherwise [00:04:13.200 – 00:04:13.580] be. [00:04:13.580 – 00:04:16.880] That's a good, healthy way of doing it. [00:04:16.880 – 00:04:17.149] Yeah. [00:04:17.149 – 00:04:27.700] There are others, of whom I was one, who don't respond well, who react, who tend to interline- i- internalize those kinds of injuries or whatever [00:04:27.740 – 00:04:37.760] and bury them on the inside, and I was somebody like that, that, that all of the stuff of life, I, I internalized it and just kept it deep down, uh, no matter what the disappointment

[00:04:37.760 – 00:04:39.960] was, and just sort of pretended it didn't exist. [00:04:39.960 – 00:04:46.520] And what happened was I developed some traits that, that, that made it possible for me to cope in life. [00:04:46.520 – 00:04:49.100] In AA, we call those things defects of character. [00:04:49.100 – 00:04:58.880] And, and those are the things that happened to me, and they're the things that set me up so that when I started serious drinking at 16, uh, I was a natural. [00:04:58.880 – 00:05:00.320] I required no training. [00:05:00.320 – 00:05:04.570] It was as, it was as normal for me as breathing.

[00:05:04.570 – 00:05:14.660] I mean, it just absolutely fit my life, and it, and it gave this twerpy, little, insecure, angry, troubled g- young guy, gave me [00:05:14.660 – 00:05:18.680] a sense of wellbeing, comfort, and confidence, uh, second to none. [00:05:18.680 – 00:05:21.180] A- and I would have been a fool not to drink. [00:05:21.180 – 00:05:23.960] And I just took to that stuff with a purple passion. [00:05:23.960 – 00:05:25.000] I loved everything about it. [00:05:25.000 – 00:05:25.380] Dr. [00:05:25.380 – 00:05:32.080] Silkworth was 100% right when he said men and wome- women drink essentially because of the effect produced by alcohol.

[00:05:32.080 – 00:05:33.260] Amen, Silkworth. [00:05:33.260 – 00:05:34.720] Where's my water? [00:05:34.720 – 00:05:35.580] Oh, here it is. [00:05:35.580 – 00:05:38.260] God, how's a guy gonna talk without drinking? [00:05:38.260 – 00:05:48.600] And Silkworth said it right because those effects that happened to me from 16 were never to be forgotten, and I sought that elusive [00:05:48.600 – 00:05:49.760] thing for the rest of my life. [00:05:49.760 – 00:05:55.680] And I was a guy that, uh, I don't necessarily think I drank my way into alcoholism. [00:05:55.680 – 00:05:56.780] I don't understand all of it. [00:05:56.780 – 00:05:57.620] I know this. [00:05:57.620 – 00:06:05.180] I started heavy drinking at 16, immediately went into, uh, to, to, to heavy drinking, developed alcoholism by the time I was 18.

[00:06:05.180 – 00:06:15.539] Now, I didn't know it when I developed alcoholism, and I guess any observer who was watching me perform would not have detected any difference whatsoever. [00:06:15.539 – 00:06:20.960] I drank as much as I could before I was alcoholic, and there's only so much you can drink. [00:06:20.960 – 00:06:25.440] When you get so drunk you can't lay on the floor, that's about as good as it gets. [00:06:25.440 – 00:06:27.680] And, and that's… [00:06:27.680 – 00:06:28.840] And so I was doing that. [00:06:28.840 – 00:06:39.140] But something happened to me in, uh, my 18th year that was to change the course of my life, indeed to ch- change my life

[00:06:39.140 – 00:06:40.180] forever. [00:06:40.180 – 00:06:44.320] In AA, we call it crossing a line. [00:06:44.320 – 00:06:47.820] Now, I was a bad drunk before I crossed the line. [00:06:47.820 – 00:06:58.050] But when I got sober and looked back, I could recognize, you know, not, not clearly, uh, but, but could pretty, pretty, pretty readily see that something happened [00:06:58.050 – 00:07:03.360] when I was 18 in that I lost the ability to control my drinking. [00:07:03.360 – 00:07:07.860] My favorite line in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous I just quoted. [00:07:07.860 – 00:07:13.900] Simple, little innocuous sentence which to me goes to the heart and soul of what alcoholism's about.

[00:07:13.900 – 00:07:19.800] I'm a man who lost the ability to control his drinking. [00:07:19.800 – 00:07:28.940] I crossed that line, and I don't know what the psychology or, or, or, or, or genetics or chemical stuff that goes into that, and could care less. [00:07:28.940 – 00:07:38.980] All I know, without any question, is that something happened to me in my 18th year that is irreversible and permanent and chronic and fatal, [00:07:38.980 – 00:07:41.000] in that I lost the ability to control my drinking. [00:07:41.000 – 00:07:46.000] If I took a drink, I am incapable of predicting what I'll do.

[00:07:46.000 – 00:07:56.300] I have a disability called alcohol- alcoholism, and all I have to do is take a drink, and I immediately, very quickly, become a, a danger [00:07:56.300 – 00:07:58.940] to myself and all too often to those around me. [00:07:58.940 – 00:08:00.210] And that happened then. [00:08:00.210 – 00:08:01.860] Now, I didn't know when I crossed that line. [00:08:01.860 – 00:08:04.920] I'm sure I was quite drunk when I crossed that line. [00:08:04.920 – 00:08:06.980] If I had anything to drink, I was. [00:08:06.980 – 00:08:17.080] And I wasn't noticing su- subtle nuances like crossing lines or anything like that, but I know that, that it was a, a, a heck

[00:08:17.080 – 00:08:19.700] of a deal, uh, from that point forward. [00:08:19.700 – 00:08:26.220] And, uh, I think I'm just gonna kind of frame this a little bit, 'cause I, I'd like to really focus, uh, uh, uh… [00:08:26.220 – 00:08:29.340] I'd like to preach all night, but, but I'm not gonna do that. [00:08:29.340 – 00:08:31.200] I, I'm not gonna talk long. [00:08:31.200 – 00:08:32.780] It'll just seem like it. [00:08:32.780 – 00:08:40.440] I b- I only make about a 30-minute talk, but it takes me about an hour to do it. [00:08:40.440 – 00:08:45.420] And, uh, I've got somewhere between 38 and 40 minutes.

[00:08:45.420 – 00:08:48.180] Everybody who's told me gave me a different time. [00:08:48.180 – 00:08:49.700] I believe the last one. [00:08:49.700 – 00:08:55.400] He said 40, and he said, "Light comes on, trap door opens if you're not gone." So that's what I'm gonna do. [00:08:55.400 – 00:08:59.520] Um, and, and, and, and, and you know what happened? [00:08:59.520 – 00:09:01.360] You know, I was somebody… [00:09:01.360 – 00:09:06.720] You know, there's a, there's a reference that you hear in our society all the time. [00:09:06.720 – 00:09:16.800] You don't hear it as much in AA, but even in AA you hear it, about denial being sort of a fundamental thing and why people are rigid to getting well and stuff like that.

[00:09:16.800 – 00:09:22.660] And, uh, one reason you don't hear it much in AA is because it's not found in our material. [00:09:22.660 – 00:09:24.500] If you look at the Big Book, you won't find it. [00:09:24.500 – 00:09:27.500] Closest thing to it is, uh, something in Bill's story. [00:09:27.500 – 00:09:29.820] He talks about his grandfather denied or something. [00:09:29.820 – 00:09:31.380] There's nothing in there about denial. [00:09:31.380 – 00:09:34.340] I don't think Bill didn't use the word because he didn't know it. [00:09:34.340 – 00:09:40.280] I think he just looked at it and didn't, didn't, uh, didn't acknowledge it as being adequate for what he was trying to say.

[00:09:40.280 – 00:09:45.060] And, and, and what, what Bill wound up talking about were two things. [00:09:45.060 – 00:09:47.400] One is delusion. [00:09:47.400 – 00:09:52.720] Delusion, an inability to differentiate the true from the false. [00:09:52.720 – 00:09:57.620] And illusion, an inability to see life like it really is. [00:09:57.620 – 00:10:08.580] And, and when I, when I started to understand that, I could see why my life took such an unbelievably chaotic, destructive course, [00:10:08.580 – 00:10:09.920] and I never really saw it. [00:10:09.920 – 00:10:11.080] I never saw it. [00:10:11.080 – 00:10:15.820] Now, I mean, sometimes when I'd be throwing up my toenails, uh, with, with, in, in the early…

[00:10:15.820 – 00:10:19.960] I mean, I had some inkling that it wasn't going real good. [00:10:19.960 – 00:10:26.280] But, but never, never once did I really get into a lot of angst and, and, and worrying about what was happening to me. [00:10:26.280 – 00:10:28.820] I was busy doing it. [00:10:28.820 – 00:10:29.740] I didn't have time. [00:10:29.740 – 00:10:40.180] And, uh, and so what happened to me, you know, once I crossed that line, my life became a seemingly unpredictable course of just, uh, absolute [00:10:40.180 – 00:10:42.180] wipeouts on a regular basis. [00:10:42.180 – 00:10:45.470] A- and, and what happened every time I s- You know, I stayed in the military.

[00:10:45.470 – 00:10:47.660] I was in the military when I crossed that line. [00:10:47.660 – 00:10:47.970] I stayed- [00:10:48.101 – 00:10:49.381] There long enough to get thrown out. [00:10:49.381 – 00:11:00.701] I was, I was discharged undesirably from the United States Army, and then my paper said, 114 I think they called it, said, "Undesirable [00:11:00.701 – 00:11:10.721] discharge-unfit for military service," and I'm 18 years old, "-alcoholism." Now, that had about as much meaning [00:11:10.721 – 00:11:13.841] to me as saying a meteor's falling in 2090. [00:11:13.841 – 00:11:15.481] It, it meant nothing. [00:11:15.481 – 00:11:17.921] And, uh, and so I was thrown out.

[00:11:17.921 – 00:11:21.401] Broke my sword and shipped me out in Kansas, USA. [00:11:21.401 – 00:11:29.921] And, and then I just took up exactly where I left off, and then it was just a, a, a, that seemingly endless series of failures and new starts, failures and new starts. [00:11:29.921 – 00:11:39.961] And every time I'd fail at the latest whatever effort it was, a new job, a new place, a new friend, whatever, a new town, every time I would hit the wall and [00:11:39.961 – 00:11:47.801] fail again and start again, what I failed to recognize is that I would ratchet my way down, never up.

[00:11:47.801 – 00:11:49.321] I would ratchet my way down. [00:11:49.321 – 00:11:55.501] And the subtlety of this illusion is that I didn't see what was happening to my own life. [00:11:55.501 – 00:12:01.301] You know, I got to a point where I would see people living a normal life, and they looked abnormal to me. [00:12:01.301 – 00:12:04.181] I'd see somebody going to work with a lunch bucket. [00:12:04.181 – 00:12:05.081] They looked strange. [00:12:05.081 – 00:12:15.241] And so I just kind of worked my way down one step at a time until I wound up, uh, you know, I mean, I'm, I'm kind of a junkyard

[00:12:15.241 – 00:12:22.141] dog, but I, I, I had a, a f- uh, I came from a decent family of, of poor but honest and straightforward people. [00:12:22.141 – 00:12:22.401] Yeah. [00:12:22.401 – 00:12:25.261] And, and I wasn't reared to be the kind of guy I became. [00:12:25.261 – 00:12:26.801] That's for doggone sure. [00:12:26.801 – 00:12:30.701] But I just sort of, sort of drifted down that trail. [00:12:30.701 – 00:12:32.681] And s- and every time that I started over was… [00:12:32.681 – 00:12:42.801] It, it finally wound up living a kind of life that I, honest to God, didn't know existed when I was living in Mayberry in North Carolina, or whatever the name of that town was,

[00:12:42.801 – 00:12:47.381] that I had no d- no notion. [00:12:47.381 – 00:12:51.501] I wasn't familiar with street crime and all this kind of junk, you know? [00:12:51.501 – 00:12:55.581] And by the time I started to understand it, I was in it. [00:12:55.581 – 00:12:56.440] I was doing it. [00:12:56.440 – 00:13:06.501] You know, among my many sort of, sort of real thoughtful decisions, for some reason, I don't know why, I guess just a bunch of hoodlums were, were, were going. [00:13:06.501 – 00:13:07.241] I just went with them. [00:13:07.241 – 00:13:09.961] But, but I wound up up in the state of Michigan.

[00:13:09.961 – 00:13:11.921] That's bad enough to start with. [00:13:11.921 – 00:13:17.561] And, uh and I wound up in, living in Detroit and Flint. [00:13:17.561 – 00:13:22.301] My primary base of operation was Flint, Michigan . [00:13:22.301 – 00:13:26.641] You, you got to be drunk to, to… [00:13:26.641 – 00:13:31.421] I mean, you don't have to be, I, you could get there by accident, but you're not gonna stay there by accident. [00:13:31.421 – 00:13:33.181] You, you got to be drunk to stay there. [00:13:33.181 – 00:13:43.581] And, uh, Flint, yeah, one of the few things that I tried to grab a little credit for, at one time, Flint, Michigan,

[00:13:43.581 – 00:13:47.861] was named the worst city in the United States in which to live . [00:13:47.861 – 00:13:52.350] And I felt kind of proud w- when that announcement was made . [00:13:52.350 – 00:14:00.721] I thought, "Man, we made it, guys." I, I spoke at a Michigan state convention last year, and I got, I t- I got taken off on, uh, Detroit and Flint. [00:14:00.721 – 00:14:03.101] And I swear to God, I didn't think I was gonna get out of Dodge. [00:14:03.101 – 00:14:05.431] Man, they were coming after me .

[00:14:05.431 – 00:14:08.461] And I kept saying, "Do you realize you can move? [00:14:08.461 – 00:14:13.881] Move." "Don't stay." But that's where I wound up. [00:14:13.881 – 00:14:15.301] And it seemed normal. [00:14:15.301 – 00:14:22.581] Here I am living in the worst city in the United States, in the worst area of the worst city, and it felt normal. [00:14:22.581 – 00:14:23.941] Felt normal. [00:14:23.941 – 00:14:28.641] And as I worked my way there, you know, as it gradually happens, eh? [00:14:28.641 – 00:14:30.981] As it gradually happens, you're not even aware of it. [00:14:30.981 – 00:14:32.261] What's the old saying? [00:14:32.261 – 00:14:40.841] The, the, the, the, the, the, the threads of habit go on so gently that you don't feel them till they're too strong to break.

[00:14:40.841 – 00:14:48.461] And i- in essence, that, that's really what was happening to me, and I just sort of wound up in that sort of, sort of weird lifestyle and, and it, and it seemed normal. [00:14:48.461 – 00:14:55.221] And, uh, and so I was a guy that my life was characterized by just getting captured on a regular basis. [00:14:55.221 – 00:15:01.501] Either, you know, getting fired from jobs and all that kind of stuff was routine, but I was a guy who, who got captured an awful lot.

[00:15:01.501 – 00:15:06.661] I wound up in hospitals and in, in, in places where they put a net on you to put you in. [00:15:06.661 – 00:15:08.181] People thought I was bizarre. [00:15:08.181 – 00:15:09.581] I thought I was life of the party. [00:15:09.581 – 00:15:16.601] But people put a net on me, and I wake up in some room with the doors, door handle on the wrong side of the door. [00:15:16.601 – 00:15:20.531] And, uh when I got sober, they always let me out, you know? [00:15:20.531 – 00:15:22.201] But, but it was just part of it.

[00:15:22.201 – 00:15:23.541] Going to jail a lot. [00:15:23.541 – 00:15:33.721] I, I went to jail so much and, and so many other places when I woke up and didn't know where I was, that I got to a point where I felt a sense of comfort and relief [00:15:33.721 – 00:15:40.061] if when I would become conscious I would hear metal clanging, because I knew I was in the right place. [00:15:40.061 – 00:15:43.801] And nobody e- you know, nobody ever put me there by accident, at least they didn't admit it.

[00:15:43.801 – 00:15:48.201] And, uh, and so that's what my life became, was just that kind of a guy. [00:15:48.201 – 00:15:52.221] I was a guy that was going down, and I'm talking about a guy in his early 20s. [00:15:52.221 – 00:15:53.841] He was late 20s and ear- early 20s. [00:15:53.841 – 00:15:55.121] I'm not talking about an old wino. [00:15:55.121 – 00:15:56.481] I'm talking about a young wino. [00:15:56.481 – 00:15:59.661] I'm talking about the devastation of alcoholism. [00:15:59.661 – 00:16:02.821] You know, I think you s- well, I don't want to get off into editorializing. [00:16:02.821 – 00:16:05.101] But I think so you see far more of my type.

[00:16:05.101 – 00:16:13.241] I think I was one of the forerunners of the, of the breed of young alcoholics that we see today who get into unbelievable difficulty almost overnight. [00:16:13.241 – 00:16:19.191] And, and, and I, I think I was just sort of a forerunner of that, and I was a guy that, that really got into a lot of trouble. [00:16:19.191 – 00:16:26.041] And I remember those days as a 21-year-old guy, look at myself in the mirror and the best I could do was say, "My God, why don't you just end it?

[00:16:26.041 – 00:16:34.481] Why don't you just end it?" Those are really great thoughts for a young guy who ought to be getting started in life, and I'm thinking about my best answer would be to end it. [00:16:34.481 – 00:16:36.561] To look at that with revulsion. [00:16:36.561 – 00:16:46.601] To wake up on a routine basis in whatever my latest wreckage was, and almost invariably be greeted with that little thing that, in the Big [00:16:46.601 – 00:16:51.953] Book, or in the c- one of the books, Big Book I'll say that.

[00:16:51.953 – 00:16:52.913] Check it out. [00:16:52.913 – 00:17:03.813] Where Bill referred to the state of mind that I'm sort of bouncing around here as pitiful, incomprehensible [00:17:03.813 – 00:17:05.033] demoralization, eh? [00:17:05.033 – 00:17:07.273] Pit- I was in Canada last week. [00:17:07.273 – 00:17:09.633] I'll be saying eh 'til Christmas, I swear. [00:17:09.633 – 00:17:12.103] Pitiful, incomprehensible demoralization. [00:17:12.103 – 00:17:19.793] Every time I would wake up in the newest wreckage of the past, that would be my reaction, and it would always be sorting the options. [00:17:19.793 – 00:17:22.473] And number one would always be, why don't you just end it? [00:17:22.473 – 00:17:24.133] Or why don't you just keep going?

[00:17:24.133 – 00:17:27.073] Don't even pretend to try to go, just disappear. [00:17:27.073 – 00:17:31.133] Wander off into the sunset, uh, or suck it up and go try again. [00:17:31.133 – 00:17:35.053] That was my life, and I mean, I was getting unemployed, darn near unemployable. [00:17:35.053 – 00:17:44.173] I wasn't reared for, for street crime, but I'll tell you, if you live in a place like Flint, Michigan, you either the rolee or the roller. [00:17:44.173 – 00:17:48.873] Because because somebody gonna get rolled, and that's, and that's not crime. [00:17:48.873 – 00:17:50.853] That's the food chain.

[00:17:50.853 – 00:17:52.573] I mean, that's just the way it works. [00:17:52.573 – 00:17:56.413] And if you don't want to play that game, better get out of town 'cause that's all it is. [00:17:56.413 – 00:17:58.993] And, and so I wound up doing that, and it seemed normal. [00:17:58.993 – 00:18:08.493] And, uh, wound up selling my blood, five bucks a throw, and I would'a, I would have let them pump me dry if they hadn't had controls on that kind of thing. [00:18:08.493 – 00:18:11.433] And so I, that's who I am in my early 20s.

[00:18:11.433 – 00:18:15.973] I was the kind of guy that was headed for diff- difficulty, and that's, you know, that was obvious. [00:18:15.973 – 00:18:18.433] And, and, and, and, and sure enough, it came. [00:18:18.433 – 00:18:22.913] And what, what, what I did is the same thing did all, all too many alcoholics do. [00:18:22.913 – 00:18:24.773] And thank God most don't. [00:18:24.773 – 00:18:29.133] It, it's an amazing thing to me, but most members of Alcoholics Anonymous have never been to jail. [00:18:29.133 – 00:18:31.393] I don't know where y'all were. [00:18:31.393 – 00:18:35.553] I mean, they had me drinking in a cage somewhere.

[00:18:35.553 – 00:18:36.193] I could… [00:18:36.193 – 00:18:42.193] That just seemed like a, well, for me it was an occupational hazard. [00:18:42.193 – 00:18:43.913] I, but I, I went to jail a lot. [00:18:43.913 – 00:18:54.013] And, uh, and so, uh, I was just crashing my, my way through and, and, uh, and I, and, and it was in- inevitable that I was gonna wind up in a lot [00:18:54.013 – 00:18:54.393] of trouble. [00:18:54.393 – 00:18:59.653] I always knew I was the kind of guy that was capable of anything but never believed, just like anybody else.

[00:18:59.653 – 00:19:03.193] I never believed I would really do anything that was unrepairable. [00:19:03.193 – 00:19:08.453] But unfortunately, that prediction was not true, and the inevitability became true. [00:19:08.453 – 00:19:10.693] And I woke up one morning in, in Flint. [00:19:10.693 – 00:19:11.893] No novelty. [00:19:11.893 – 00:19:22.173] I, it, I was very accustomed to waking up there and, and, um, figured I was there for the same old thing, either hustling or scuffling on the street or whatever, just, just some kind of goofy [00:19:22.173 – 00:19:22.693] behavior. [00:19:22.693 – 00:19:26.893] And, um, after I was awake a little while, jailer came by.

[00:19:26.893 – 00:19:27.733] I knew him quite well. [00:19:27.733 – 00:19:34.173] And, and, and, uh, and, and, and I said, "Hey, guy, what can I get out?" He would normally say, "10 o'clock." That was around getting out time. [00:19:34.173 – 00:19:36.473] And this day he didn't say that. [00:19:36.473 – 00:19:41.433] He looked at me and he said, "I hope never." And I had no clue what he was talking about. [00:19:41.433 – 00:19:42.393] No clue. [00:19:42.393 – 00:19:44.153] That's the hell of blackouts. [00:19:44.153 – 00:19:46.373] You know, somebody can go, you could do it to you. [00:19:46.373 – 00:19:50.293] If you suddenly had blackouts like I gave to you, somebody could walk up to you tonight and do you know what you did?

[00:19:50.293 – 00:19:56.073] And the best you could say was, "Geez, I wouldn't do that." That's the best you could come up with. [00:19:56.073 – 00:20:00.733] And, and so this guy, I didn't know what he was talking about, but I knew it was serious, and he kept walking. [00:20:00.733 – 00:20:08.273] I went back into the, to the tank in the, in the, where all the guys were locked up, and apparently some of them had heard, heard the news and read papers or whatever. [00:20:08.273 – 00:20:18.313] And what they said was that la- the, the night before, they had arrested a guy for running down two people trying to cross the street who died and,

[00:20:18.313 – 00:20:20.733] uh, that I was the guy they had arrested for it. [00:20:20.733 – 00:20:26.253] I had no, absolutely no inkling of what they were talking about. [00:20:26.253 – 00:20:33.353] And, and, and when I was greeted with, with, with even the possibility of something like that, that was more than this old boy could stand. [00:20:33.353 – 00:20:36.913] Now, I mean, I was a, a character, but I was not a subhuman. [00:20:36.913 – 00:20:43.513] I was not somebody insensitive to human life or who, who could look with any kind of objectivity at a thing like that.

[00:20:43.513 – 00:20:46.693] I was, I was absolutely devastated with, with even the thought of it. [00:20:46.693 – 00:20:49.333] And, and I didn't, I didn't believe it. [00:20:49.333 – 00:20:59.463] And, uh, and, uh, it, but gradually, as I was able to handle the information, gradually accepted the truth that I had done [00:20:59.463 – 00:21:02.173] more damage than any alcoholic ever ought to be allowed to do. [00:21:02.173 – 00:21:08.213] And, and my re- and my, and my response to that was I just, I just wanted to disappear. [00:21:08.213 – 00:21:10.373] That's the only time I'd ever been in jail and didn't try to get out.

[00:21:10.373 – 00:21:11.152] I didn't want out. [00:21:11.152 – 00:21:12.273] I was ashamed to get out. [00:21:12.273 – 00:21:17.533] I was ashamed to be breathing, for God's sakes, never mind walking the streets and looking people in the eye. [00:21:17.533 – 00:21:19.193] And, and I didn't want to get out. [00:21:19.193 – 00:21:20.413] I didn't know how to say that. [00:21:20.413 – 00:21:28.413] I was just too devastated with guilt and shame and, and, uh, you know, I had family in North Carolina, but I didn't let them know. [00:21:28.413 – 00:21:30.993] Nobody knew where I was except the people there with me.

[00:21:30.993 – 00:21:34.673] And, uh, I don't know why, but for some reason, there was a police officer there. [00:21:34.673 – 00:21:35.863] I'll never know who he was- [00:21:36.128 – 00:21:37.148] I'm not gonna try to find out. [00:21:37.148 – 00:21:38.948] But I think he took it on himself. [00:21:38.948 – 00:21:48.148] He saw the shape I was in and, uh, said, "My God, somebody better do something with this boy." And, uh, and he learned that I had family down in North Carolina and called them. [00:21:48.148 – 00:21:58.168] My mother and sister did what families all too often do, go way too far, and they came and made what was to be my mother's last trip to get her baby boy out of

[00:21:58.168 – 00:21:58.448] jail. [00:21:58.448 – 00:22:01.088] Wasn't her first one, bailing me, but it was to be her last one. [00:22:01.088 – 00:22:09.768] She died some 29 years later with a heart full of gratitude for a program that had given her a son for 29 years of whom she was quite proud. [00:22:09.768 – 00:22:11.928] Uh, my sister's still living. [00:22:11.928 – 00:22:16.928] She still has a chance if, uh, I don't pay attention to what y'all tell me. [00:22:16.928 – 00:22:22.408] She could have one more go at it, but she hopes not, and so do I.

[00:22:22.408 – 00:22:24.988] And, um, and so they contacted. [00:22:24.988 – 00:22:34.108] They came up, made a trip they couldn't afford, got a lawyer they couldn't afford, and they, uh, they, they, the lawyer negotiated a release on bond which I couldn't afford, I didn't want. [00:22:34.108 – 00:22:36.128] And, uh, but I didn't know how to say that. [00:22:36.128 – 00:22:42.248] How do you tell somebody, "I don't want to get out of jail," and, uh, "I'm afraid to get out of jail, I'm ashamed to get out of jail"? [00:22:42.248 – 00:22:44.468] And, and I knew I would never drink.

[00:22:44.468 – 00:22:50.448] I, I mean, my God, how could you possibly drink after having done something as horrendous as that? [00:22:50.448 – 00:22:58.308] The more logical question, if you understand alcoholism, is how would you not drink after something like that? [00:22:58.308 – 00:22:59.868] But I didn't know anything about any of that. [00:22:59.868 – 00:23:04.668] All I know was that I was released on the 17th of July of '56. [00:23:04.668 – 00:23:06.548] Knew I wouldn't drink. [00:23:06.548 – 00:23:10.848] Walked the streets all day, all night, till about noon the next day, and then of course I drank.

[00:23:10.848 – 00:23:18.448] And from July 18 of '56 till November 19 of '56, I drank literally like no person I've ever seen. [00:23:18.448 – 00:23:23.048] Now, that's not some weird bravado- braggadocious type of statement. [00:23:23.048 – 00:23:24.468] That's not some Wild West thing. [00:23:24.468 – 00:23:27.488] That is, that's just an absolute fact. [00:23:27.488 – 00:23:30.668] You know, I have worked with thousands of alcoholics. [00:23:30.668 – 00:23:31.248] Not a few. [00:23:31.248 – 00:23:33.548] I've worked with thousands of alcoholics. [00:23:33.548 – 00:23:35.528] I've never worked with one like me. [00:23:35.528 – 00:23:42.408] I held an alcoholic in my arms while he died on a 12-step call one night, and even as he died, he was not an alcoholic like me.

[00:23:42.408 – 00:23:47.208] He was still arguing with, with the evidence that was killing him. [00:23:47.208 – 00:23:50.688] So I wasn't like that. [00:23:50.688 – 00:23:54.148] I just, some, some folks say alcoholism is, is a slow form of suicide. [00:23:54.148 – 00:23:56.808] In my case, I think it was an overt, deliberate thing. [00:23:56.808 – 00:24:01.088] I, I think I, I believe that I was diabolically just trying to drink myself to death. [00:24:01.088 – 00:24:06.828] And, um, and then November the 19th was the date of what I hope and pray was my last drink. [00:24:06.828 – 00:24:10.348] I di- didn't know it at the time, but I knew it was gonna be the last one.

[00:24:10.348 – 00:24:12.628] I was to be tried that day, and I had no defense. [00:24:12.628 – 00:24:21.808] In a hell of blackouts, much, some, one of the many hells of blackouts, I was unable to testify at my own trial. [00:24:21.808 – 00:24:27.988] I'm listening to it like I'm a witness, like I'm on the jury, and I'm listening to the evidence. [00:24:27.988 – 00:24:30.488] Put me on the stand and all I could say is, "I don't know. [00:24:30.488 – 00:24:40.508] I don't know." And, um, first time I ever heard what really happened, I heard the policeman testify that had investigated the crime, and he described that he was at the crime

[00:24:40.508 – 00:24:40.688] scene. [00:24:40.688 – 00:24:44.768] He saw this guy wobbling down the street, and he asked him, um, that, that… [00:24:44.768 – 00:24:54.768] Said, "I went up to him and asked him," he identified it as me, and, and said, "I walked up to him and asked him if there had been an accident there," and he said, "There sure was," and, and I, and I said, "I think I might have been in [00:24:54.768 – 00:24:59.148] it." And, um, and that's the first, first time I'd ever heard that described.

[00:24:59.148 – 00:25:02.088] And then when it was finished, then I was found guilty, of course. [00:25:02.088 – 00:25:05.448] I, I had no, no, no anxiety about the outcome. [00:25:05.448 – 00:25:06.828] I knew that, that that would be the case. [00:25:06.828 – 00:25:11.628] I was found guilty, sentenced that day to a max of 15 years at Michigan State Penitentiary. [00:25:11.628 – 00:25:13.208] Now, I'd never been in a prison. [00:25:13.208 – 00:25:16.418] I'd been in every kind of a goofy situation you could imagine, but I'd never d- done any… [00:25:16.418 – 00:25:20.788] Everything I ever did crime-wise was drunk and something.

[00:25:20.788 – 00:25:22.508] Drunk and something. [00:25:22.508 – 00:25:28.568] You know, I've never, I've never overtly or deliberately by premeditation committed a crime in my life. [00:25:28.568 – 00:25:32.788] Uh, it's just a, just, just what happens with, with folks like me sometimes. [00:25:32.788 – 00:25:43.028] And, and so, and then the judge passed that sentence of 15 years, and I had, I guess, a very human reaction, just a reflex action of fear, [00:25:43.028 – 00:25:50.068] uh, because I, and, and, but it was instantaneous, but at the same time, the most real sense of relief I had ever known.

[00:25:50.068 – 00:25:52.868] Now, I'm not talking about optimism or hope. [00:25:52.868 – 00:25:55.808] I'm talking about absence of hope. [00:25:55.808 – 00:26:02.208] When that sentence was passed, I had genuine relief because I knew it was over. [00:26:02.208 – 00:26:04.248] It was over, done. [00:26:04.248 – 00:26:06.208] There wouldn't be any more. [00:26:06.208 – 00:26:10.808] The next day I was led into that, the maximum custody penitentiary at Jackson, Michigan. [00:26:10.808 – 00:26:14.388] Knew I would never come out of there alive and truly didn't care. [00:26:14.388 – 00:26:18.408] I mean, it wasn't resentment or resistance or belligerence. [00:26:18.408 – 00:26:20.428] It was just complete hopelessness.

[00:26:20.428 – 00:26:23.388] I was like filing away a blob of humanity. [00:26:23.388 – 00:26:24.558] There was no real feeling. [00:26:24.558 – 00:26:25.888] I was about devoid of feeling. [00:26:25.888 – 00:26:31.108] And, and, and so they just took me away in there and, and they put me in a cell. [00:26:31.108 – 00:26:35.458] And I sat there and spent my every waking moment trying to keep from thinking. [00:26:35.458 – 00:26:37.908] I could not stand to think. [00:26:37.908 – 00:26:39.748] And, and so I would read anything. [00:26:39.748 – 00:26:40.928] It didn't matter what it was. [00:26:40.928 – 00:26:45.228] Count cockroaches, cracks in the wall, anything, just to keep my mind somewhere.

[00:26:45.228 – 00:26:47.008] And, and then one day… [00:26:47.008 – 00:26:48.088] Now, I'll tell you this. [00:26:48.088 – 00:26:58.168] If my coming out of that cell in any positive direction had depended on any initiative from me, I would have [00:26:58.168 – 00:27:01.128] sat there till they carried me out toes up. [00:27:01.128 – 00:27:02.828] Now, that's an absolute fact. [00:27:02.828 – 00:27:04.228] It's an absolute fact. [00:27:04.228 – 00:27:08.048] I have no way of proving it, nor need to, but I know it's an absolute fact. [00:27:08.048 – 00:27:17.308] I was one of those people, I was so full of guilt and remorse and shame that I couldn't have asked anybody for anything, never mind help.

[00:27:17.308 – 00:27:27.308] And, um, and so what happened that started to make a huge difference in my life is, um, a [00:27:27.308 – 00:27:33.818] guy called me up for an interview one day, fella that worked there, and he did a standard kind of a social worker type of in- family history type thing. [00:27:33.818 – 00:27:35.288] Social, social history they call it. [00:27:35.288 – 00:27:41.248] And then he did that, got through, made the same startling dia- diagnosis I'd heard from everybody who ever captured me. [00:27:41.248 – 00:27:43.488] I never had but one diagnosis in my life.

[00:27:43.488 – 00:27:48.388] You know, it's different words, but, "You're an alcoholic, you're a drunk, you're a problem drinker," and that, on and on. [00:27:48.388 – 00:27:49.508] That, that's all I'd ever heard. [00:27:49.508 – 00:27:51.268] I never believed any of it. [00:27:51.268 – 00:27:53.248] It had absolutely no impact whatsoever. [00:27:53.248 – 00:27:57.248] This guy, he was a little bit different, but I, but not that much. [00:27:57.248 – 00:28:07.548] When he got through with his deal, uh, he said, "Man, you've had a lot of trouble with booze." And I said, "Yeah." I mean, my God, that's obvious.

[00:28:07.548 – 00:28:11.148] You know, an, an alcoholic is, uh, some- from a different stratosphere. [00:28:11.148 – 00:28:12.748] But trouble with booze? [00:28:12.748 – 00:28:13.748] You bet I have. [00:28:13.748 – 00:28:16.438] Man, if the pope drank as much as I did, he'd have trouble with it. [00:28:16.438 – 00:28:17.228] Anybody would. [00:28:17.228 – 00:28:19.927] And so he told me that. [00:28:19.927 – 00:28:22.328] He probably said something else, but I didn't hear it. [00:28:22.328 – 00:28:24.208] But, but here it is. [00:28:24.208 – 00:28:25.468] Here it is. [00:28:25.468 – 00:28:33.948] You know, if, if you have thoughts about you gotta wait till somebody r- truly and sincerely wants to get sober and all this kind of stuff, don't pay much attention to it.

[00:28:33.948 – 00:28:44.018] That was the first suggestion I ever heard in my life that there was a solution and that I ought [00:28:44.018 – 00:28:44.448] to try it. [00:28:44.448 – 00:28:48.548] That was the first I ever heard, and I have never looked back. [00:28:48.548 – 00:28:51.368] I responded to the first invitation. [00:28:51.368 – 00:29:01.388] My God, how many more people are there like me in the, in some jail or prison or detox or s- thing that may respond to just a simple kind [00:29:01.388 – 00:29:03.618] of, of saying, "Hey, there really is something"?

[00:29:03.618 – 00:29:06.478] And so this guy, he, I don't think he knew much. [00:29:06.478 – 00:29:16.508] I, but I, hopefully somebody from AA did some CPC work and told him, "When you see a guy who's got a record that thick, it's all about booze, tell him he ought to go to AA." That's not rocket science, but [00:29:16.508 – 00:29:18.668] that's exactly what he did, and I've never looked back. [00:29:18.668 – 00:29:25.528] And so now I didn't respond to that verbal cue, but a, a little later he sent a little note to my cell.

[00:29:25.528 – 00:29:28.388] Uh, they delivered the mail very dramatically. [00:29:28.388 – 00:29:29.468] They just threw it on the bunk. [00:29:29.468 – 00:29:36.948] And I found this thing laying there, and, uh, it said, in, in that prison there were 6,300 people locked up in there. [00:29:36.948 – 00:29:39.028] Everything was crowded, including the AA group. [00:29:39.028 – 00:29:46.088] And, and so they, um, they, I, I learned later what they had to do to have a chair open before you could have a place to sit. [00:29:46.088 – 00:29:48.928] Like, you took my chair , and that, that's what you had to do.

[00:29:48.928 – 00:29:55.168] So the guy, this guy sent me a note, said, "You can go to your first meeting February 2nd of '57." I didn't want to go to AA. [00:29:55.168 – 00:30:05.298] I, I tell you something, I don't need to tell you if you know it, but the, uh, people who are severely isolated, the last thing they want is somebody that says to go somewhere and [00:30:05.298 – 00:30:06.488] yuck it up with somebody. [00:30:06.488 – 00:30:10.228] That is the last thing on the, on the hit list.

[00:30:10.228 – 00:30:11.048] And, and I was that way. [00:30:11.048 – 00:30:13.068] I, I didn't want to get out of that cell for anything. [00:30:13.068 – 00:30:17.188] I wanted to sit in there and stare at my navel and not think, if I could possibly help it. [00:30:17.188 – 00:30:19.448] I didn't want to get out and mix it up with, with anybody. [00:30:19.448 – 00:30:21.748] Had no clue what AA was. [00:30:21.748 – 00:30:26.728] Had no, had never had believed anything about having a real drinking problem, being alcoholic. [00:30:26.728 – 00:30:30.748] And, um, so that note came, and, and thank God.

[00:30:30.748 – 00:30:31.348] Thank God. [00:30:31.348 – 00:30:39.528] I think of all the words I love in Alcoholics Anonymous, the one I love the very most in the, in the annals of recovery is the word surrender. [00:30:39.528 – 00:30:40.728] Surrender. [00:30:40.728 – 00:30:42.728] Because that's where this comes from. [00:30:42.728 – 00:30:45.448] This is not some negotiating process with God. [00:30:45.448 – 00:30:48.448] This is not some kind of an achievement orientation. [00:30:48.448 – 00:30:53.588] This is about giving up on a broken and wasted life and being open to a new one. [00:30:53.588 – 00:30:59.888] And thank God I was totally beaten in every department of my life.

[00:30:59.888 – 00:31:04.308] And that's the only reason I went to that first, to, to that note. [00:31:04.308 – 00:31:08.068] The, the guy said, "You can go to that meeting on February 2nd." I had no fight left. [00:31:08.068 – 00:31:08.808] You know what I mean? [00:31:08.808 – 00:31:11.368] You ever been to the point that you're just through? [00:31:11.368 – 00:31:12.528] I mean, you're just beat. [00:31:12.528 – 00:31:14.068] There's no fight. [00:31:14.068 – 00:31:20.908] And, and, and I just wandered over there like a guy on Thorazine to my first meeting and had no clue what it'd be. [00:31:20.908 – 00:31:24.268] I figured it was gonna be some kind of religious fervor of some sort.

[00:31:24.268 – 00:31:29.468] And, and I couldn't, well, what else would you do with alcoholics other than preach at them or yell at them or something? [00:31:29.468 – 00:31:31.108] I had no clue. [00:31:31.108 – 00:31:36.288] Walked in, and I didn't want anything to do with anything that even s- even rhymed with religion. [00:31:36.288 – 00:31:39.068] I'd c- I shut that down before I started school. [00:31:39.068 – 00:31:42.208] And then, uh, so I figured it was gonna be in that, in that vein. [00:31:42.208 – 00:31:45.608] First thing we did when I stepped in that room was pray.

[00:31:45.608 – 00:31:47.308] Well, I didn't pray, but they did. [00:31:47.308 – 00:31:50.188] And I listened to them do the Serenity Prayer. [00:31:50.188 – 00:31:53.848] And while they were praying, I was thinking, "Yep, just what I thought. [00:31:53.848 – 00:31:55.148] Here we go. [00:31:55.148 – 00:32:02.708] Yeah, it'll be here any minute now with the drums and guitars and snakes and stuff." And, uh, deep dunking. [00:32:02.708 – 00:32:05.168] And, I mean, I was braced for it. [00:32:05.168 – 00:32:10.108] And they got through with the praying finally, and, uh, th- then they, they read a bunch of stuff. [00:32:10.108 – 00:32:11.808] They read everything but the phone book.

[00:32:11.808 – 00:32:18.408] And, uh, then they got through and they introduced the speaker, and I listened to my first AA speaker. [00:32:18.408 – 00:32:20.388] That guy got up and told his story. [00:32:20.388 – 00:32:22.748] I'd never heard an alcoholic tell anything. [00:32:22.748 – 00:32:23.998] I'd heard alcoholics tell stories… [00:32:24.116 – 00:32:24.936] But not their own. [00:32:24.936 – 00:32:28.356] My God, just it had to be true. [00:32:28.356 – 00:32:29.646] I mean, nobody gonna make that up. [00:32:29.646 – 00:32:39.896] And I thought, "My God, man, i- i- i- if he could have bit a chicken's head off, and it wouldn't have startled me anymore." I thought, "Why, why would this guy…"

[00:32:39.896 – 00:32:45.676] He looked all right if you didn't get too close, had on the old blue preaching suit, and he's up there waxing away. [00:32:45.676 – 00:32:54.116] And, uh, and I mean, baring himself, stripping naked in front of 300 hair-legging convicts. [00:32:54.116 – 00:32:56.335] That made no sense to me whatsoever. [00:32:56.335 – 00:33:01.256] And, uh, I thought the guy just had to be some kind of a fruitcake of some sort. [00:33:01.256 – 00:33:05.776] And, uh, when I left, I think I was more confused than I was when I went in there.

[00:33:05.776 – 00:33:06.636] I didn't learn anything. [00:33:06.636 – 00:33:10.416] I didn't identify with a single syllable of any word that was said. [00:33:10.416 – 00:33:11.536] Nothing. [00:33:11.536 – 00:33:14.236] The amazing thing was I was back the next week. [00:33:14.236 – 00:33:17.016] Now, I'm not a mystical fella. [00:33:17.016 – 00:33:19.196] I'm a pretty much foot-on-the-ground type guy. [00:33:19.196 – 00:33:29.216] But, but I b- I m- I believe in the energies of things, and I believe in spirit, and I believe in, that I have a higher power that is everything in [00:33:29.216 – 00:33:29.736] my life. [00:33:29.736 – 00:33:37.256] I tell you the only thing that brought me back to my second meeting, that man who spoke, he later, by the way, became my first sponsor.

[00:33:37.256 – 00:33:38.216] It, it… [00:33:38.216 – 00:33:40.336] I would, I would have never believed that. [00:33:40.336 – 00:33:41.856] I thought the guy was nuts. [00:33:41.856 – 00:33:51.176] And, uh, what brought me back was the magical enthusiasm that imbued this guy's life. [00:33:51.176 – 00:33:55.396] Now, some people think that enthusiasm is rinky-dinky cheerleader. [00:33:55.396 – 00:33:56.396] Believe it if you want to. [00:33:56.396 – 00:34:00.456] I believe that it's a powerful healing force. [00:34:00.456 – 00:34:03.916] I believe it's an absolutely essential kind of a thing. [00:34:03.916 – 00:34:05.816] You know, ours is a program of attraction. [00:34:05.816 – 00:34:06.656] What attracts? [00:34:06.656 – 00:34:08.996] Bitching and grousing? [00:34:08.996 – 00:34:10.916] I don't think so.

[00:34:10.916 – 00:34:11.296] No. [00:34:11.296 – 00:34:17.416] No, people who are enthused about the process of living and about living life and being involved. [00:34:17.416 – 00:34:19.176] And, and that's what brought me back. [00:34:19.176 – 00:34:21.696] I was, I was drawn back by the spirit of that man. [00:34:21.696 – 00:34:22.376] Nothing else. [00:34:22.376 – 00:34:23.736] Absolutely nothing else. [00:34:23.736 – 00:34:25.116] Didn't believe I was an alcoholic. [00:34:25.116 – 00:34:26.956] I was the youngest guy in the room. [00:34:26.956 – 00:34:34.816] Most of the guys in the room had drunk 25 years more than I was years old, and I felt like a utter wimp in there for a while.

[00:34:34.816 – 00:34:36.106] Felt totally out of… [00:34:36.106 – 00:34:41.316] I don't think I've ever felt any more out of place anywhere than I did in, in Alcoholics Anonymous in my early days. [00:34:41.316 – 00:34:51.356] I, for many years, a good many, it seemed like a long time, but about five or six years, I was the youngest person in every meeting I attended for at least five [00:34:51.356 – 00:34:52.096] or six years. [00:34:52.096 – 00:34:54.656] That's a weird place to be. [00:34:54.656 – 00:34:55.706] You know? [00:34:55.706 – 00:35:02.036] Now, the irony is now I'm almost always the oldest rat in every barn I go into.

[00:35:02.036 – 00:35:04.536] So it's, if you stay long enough, things happen. [00:35:04.536 – 00:35:04.736] Yeah. [00:35:04.736 – 00:35:08.356] And so that's what I, I walked in and, and, and that's what brought me back. [00:35:08.356 – 00:35:17.556] I stayed in there three and a half years, never missed a single meeting, but you hurry and believe it wasn't because I got religion or fell in love with it or became an AA member or wanted to be sober forever. [00:35:17.556 – 00:35:19.395] I'm just a lost soul. [00:35:19.395 – 00:35:23.756] I'm one more tragic face in a sea of tragic faces.

[00:35:23.756 – 00:35:29.056] I'm one other face in a crowd of 300 people hoping maybe they'll grab a straw. [00:35:29.056 – 00:35:34.156] And, um, and I, I mean, I'm just sitting there and, and never missed a meeting. [00:35:34.156 – 00:35:35.676] I, I've, I've, I've always been a reader. [00:35:35.676 – 00:35:36.816] I, I started reading… [00:35:36.816 – 00:35:37.936] What does that green light mean? [00:35:37.936 – 00:35:38.626] Five minutes. [00:35:38.626 – 00:35:39.336] Good God. [00:35:39.336 – 00:35:40.996] Y'all gonna have to listen fast. [00:35:40.996 – 00:35:42.876] Fast. [00:35:42.876 – 00:35:52.895] It, it, uh, the, uh, th- th- well, what happened in, in that, that, that thing, it had to happen in a rush and hurry just like

[00:35:52.896 – 00:35:54.116] I'm gonna have to do this in a rush and hurry. [00:35:54.116 – 00:36:02.476] The, um, I was blessed in that I went into the recovery group at Jackson Prison, was one of the finest AA groups I've ever seen. [00:36:02.476 – 00:36:04.296] I belong to a strong group now. [00:36:04.296 – 00:36:05.396] This is a strong group. [00:36:05.396 – 00:36:07.776] There are strong groups around the country. [00:36:07.776 – 00:36:10.896] There are a lot of other things that are not even close to a strong group. [00:36:10.896 – 00:36:18.206] But I was blessed in that I went to a strong group, and I was introduced to a program of recovery by other people locked up just like me.

[00:36:18.206 – 00:36:23.396] The only difference was they had found something and shared it with me, and then they enlisted me into the cause. [00:36:23.396 – 00:36:27.336] Nobody ever asked me if I wanted to work steps or anything like that. [00:36:27.336 – 00:36:34.776] You know, some, there's some romantic notion that we used to do it far more, uh, more, more effectively back in the old days. [00:36:34.776 – 00:36:37.096] If we, if we did, they sure hid it from me. [00:36:37.096 – 00:36:37.856] You know? [00:36:37.856 – 00:36:39.996] What they basically told me is, "You're on your own, Jack.

[00:36:39.996 – 00:36:46.496] Dig in there and do it." What I found out is that if you do the steps as honestly as you're capable of doing, you can't screw them up. [00:36:46.496 – 00:36:48.416] You can't screw them up. [00:36:48.416 – 00:36:50.636] And that's exactly what I did. [00:36:50.636 – 00:37:00.656] I, I, I wandered my way through the steps, and when, when I got through the steps, I had an absolutely transforming experience, a transforming experience, and I [00:37:00.656 – 00:37:01.826] just fumbled my way through. [00:37:01.826 – 00:37:12.136] The crowning, the culminating thing for me was fourth step, where I got down to cases and, and, and just like the book says, I conceded to my innermost self

[00:37:12.136 – 00:37:13.156] that I'm alcoholic. [00:37:13.156 – 00:37:19.796] I'm not a bad drunk or the worst drunk in the world or some sort of a criminalistic drunk. [00:37:19.796 – 00:37:20.796] I'm an alcoholic. [00:37:20.796 – 00:37:24.636] I'm a guy that if I take a drink, I can't predict what I'll do. [00:37:24.636 – 00:37:29.416] I ca- I fought a battle, but I lost, and I surrendered to death. [00:37:29.416 – 00:37:33.056] I have that illness, and I want to do something about it. [00:37:33.056 – 00:37:35.396] You know what that did is give me the long view of sobriety. [00:37:35.396 – 00:37:45.476] I'm somebody at 51 years who wants to be sober the rest of my life, and I can do that if I do what we're doing here tonight on a regular basis, you know, if I practice

[00:37:45.476 – 00:37:46.676] these principles as a way to live. [00:37:46.676 – 00:37:48.836] And so it, it was a transforming thing. [00:37:48.836 – 00:37:54.556] I, everything that comes from working the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous came to me at a maximum custody penitentiary. [00:37:54.556 – 00:37:55.676] Everything. [00:37:55.676 – 00:37:57.336] Freedom. [00:37:57.336 – 00:38:00.576] I was free in every sense of the word except physically. [00:38:00.576 – 00:38:05.996] Dignity, worth, honor, decency, things I had never known, and it happened for me. [00:38:05.996 – 00:38:08.216] This is a powerful program we're in. [00:38:08.216 – 00:38:10.056] This is not a social club. [00:38:10.056 – 00:38:11.956] It's a powerful program. [00:38:11.956 – 00:38:14.436] And, and so I, I left there a different man.

[00:38:14.436 – 00:38:20.676] When I left, all I wanted to do was go out in the world, take my place, and just be a, an average walking around dude. [00:38:20.676 – 00:38:22.076] I, I wanted to be a citizen. [00:38:22.076 – 00:38:25.076] I never had been, unless you call Flint citizenship. [00:38:25.076 – 00:38:27.266] I, I'd never been a citizen. [00:38:27.266 – 00:38:30.726] I never voted, paid taxes, nothing that people do that are citizens. [00:38:30.726 – 00:38:31.936] I, I'd never been one. [00:38:31.936 – 00:38:32.896] I wanted to be one. [00:38:32.896 – 00:38:37.768] I wanted to work for, honestly, for a living and, and, and, and make a living wage.

[00:38:37.768 – 00:38:38.968] I wanted to have friends. [00:38:38.968 – 00:38:41.888] I didn't have any that weren't drunks on street corners. [00:38:41.888 – 00:38:43.768] I wanted to be trusted. [00:38:43.768 – 00:38:45.588] I, I don't know if I'd ever been trusted. [00:38:45.588 – 00:38:46.908] I didn't think I ever would again. [00:38:46.908 – 00:38:48.768] Oh, just little things, eh? [00:38:48.768 – 00:38:50.127] Just the little stuff of life. [00:38:50.127 – 00:38:53.808] And, uh, and I'm here to tell you that dreams come true. [00:38:53.808 – 00:38:54.098] I, I… [00:38:54.098 – 00:39:01.608] When I was released on parole, they told me I had to go to North Carolina, so I reluctantly went back, and, and thank God for it.

[00:39:01.608 – 00:39:03.568] I had to grow up to appreciate my own home. [00:39:03.568 – 00:39:10.508] And, uh, so I went back and I got immediately active in AA, immediately, and have been that way ever since. [00:39:10.508 – 00:39:12.968] And, and I, and I, I hit the ground running. [00:39:12.968 – 00:39:23.188] And I was blessed with going into a town where AA was in devastation, and I had the wonderful experience of helping build Alcoholics Anonymous in the city, of going to meetings [00:39:23.188 – 00:39:26.668] by myself, some of the best meetings I've ever been to.

[00:39:26.668 – 00:39:27.768] Yeah. [00:39:27.768 – 00:39:30.148] Business meetings are a snap. [00:39:30.148 – 00:39:31.268] Man, there's nothing to it. [00:39:31.268 – 00:39:33.488] And then watch it grow, eh? [00:39:33.488 – 00:39:34.528] Watch it come alive. [00:39:34.528 – 00:39:37.347] And, and so stuff happened, and I started to grow. [00:39:37.347 – 00:39:40.548] Uh, two months after I was out, I was elected outside sponsor. [00:39:40.548 – 00:39:42.338] Now, there's no light. [00:39:42.338 – 00:39:43.148] What, let me start over? [00:39:43.148 – 00:39:45.008] Uh, no, give me one minute. [00:39:45.008 – 00:39:51.128] Uh, two months after I was out, I was elected outside spon- uh, uh, uh, asked to be outside sponsor of the prison that I was sponsoring.

[00:39:51.128 – 00:39:55.448] And, um, five months after that, I was a DCM. [00:39:55.448 – 00:40:05.948] Two years after I was out, I became the first ex-con in the history of this planet hired into a professional position in a, in a correction system. [00:40:05.948 – 00:40:10.688] And, uh, and I, and I'm not somebody with all kinds of hidden skills. [00:40:10.688 – 00:40:13.498] You know, who I am is who I just- … [00:40:13.498 – 00:40:15.528] I'm, who I am is who I just told you. [00:40:15.528 – 00:40:18.488] Nobody ever told me why they wanted to hire me, they just did.

[00:40:18.488 – 00:40:26.228] And of all the things, and I could have understood in, in, in sort of progressive, forward-thinking California doing something like that. [00:40:26.228 – 00:40:28.408] I'm talking about North Carolina. [00:40:28.408 – 00:40:32.628] Man, we elected Jesse Helms for 100 years. [00:40:32.628 – 00:40:42.418] Can, can, can you imagine us saying, "Well, why don't we just become the first place on the universe to hire an ex-con as an official?" I can't believe it. [00:40:42.418 – 00:40:43.248] To this day, I can't. [00:40:43.248 – 00:40:45.988] But it started a great career. [00:40:45.988 – 00:40:53.928] I, I moved into supervision management, and finally one guy, the, the head of our system asked me if I would take, uh, the, the job as warden of a, of a prison.

[00:40:53.928 – 00:40:57.127] Now, if you don't think that's a long trip. [00:40:57.127 – 00:41:04.108] Of all the things a guy sitting in a cell in Macomb County thinks about, I guarantee you that one doesn't make the list. [00:41:04.108 – 00:41:14.127] As I put in a 39-year career, and the day I retired, I had already been elected to be the chair of what you guys call H&I [00:41:14.128 – 00:41:18.108] in, in, uh, California, and we called it the Correctional Facility Work in North Carolina. [00:41:18.108 – 00:41:20.728] They said they needed leadership, asked me if I'd take the job.

[00:41:20.728 – 00:41:25.688] And when I told my wife, she said, "You gotta be kidding." I said, "It's only two years. [00:41:25.688 – 00:41:29.168] We rotate." We will one day. [00:41:29.168 – 00:41:34.228] And, but I'm, I'm having an absolute ball. [00:41:34.228 – 00:41:35.488] I sponsor a prison now. [00:41:35.488 – 00:41:36.968] I'm an extremely active member. [00:41:36.968 – 00:41:40.768] It has, it has blessed every element of my life. [00:41:40.768 – 00:41:43.948] Some people think you get in over your head, and it does damage to that. [00:41:43.948 – 00:41:45.448] Uh, not with this guy. [00:41:45.448 – 00:41:54.008] I've been as busy as anybody I know for as long as anybody I know, and there's absolutely nothing in my life that hasn't been richly blessed.

[00:41:54.008 – 00:41:54.888] Everything. [00:41:54.888 – 00:41:59.028] My profession, uh, my entire career, my citizenship. [00:41:59.028 – 00:42:04.508] My, my wife and I will celebrate 40 years of, of continuous marriage if she behaves till July. [00:42:04.508 – 00:42:06.228] We're, we're doing pretty good. [00:42:06.228 – 00:42:08.188] Uh, our kids have done well. [00:42:08.188 – 00:42:09.748] My daughter is a little spacey. [00:42:09.748 – 00:42:13.328] She's a psych, uh, a psych major, but she's coming back to Earth. [00:42:13.328 – 00:42:15.268] And she's gonna be okay. [00:42:15.268 – 00:42:21.408] And my son, I was telling, s- telling, uh, Mary earlier that, uh, my son, uh, I thought he lost his mind.

[00:42:21.408 – 00:42:29.948] He, he went to medical school and, and, uh, and finished, and he, uh, only thing I told him to stay away from was OBGYN, so guess where he went. [00:42:29.948 – 00:42:31.788] And, uh, that wasn't bad enough. [00:42:31.788 – 00:42:37.128] He's now a high-risk specialist in the maternal field medicine at our university hospital. [00:42:37.128 – 00:42:42.128] Now, these are kids who've lived with intensive work and recovery. [00:42:42.128 – 00:42:51.128] And there, uh, hear me again, there is nothing in my life, nor any person connected, that hasn't been richly blessed.

[00:42:51.128 – 00:42:57.308] Whoever you are, if you're kind of withering in the hope department and you wonder about it, you take the word of this guy. [00:42:57.308 – 00:43:05.428] If, uh, if Go- if God could take a junkyard dog like this and give him back a life like this, I guarantee you there's hope here. [00:43:05.428 – 00:43:09.468] What it says on my next tie and is what it says in my life, and I hope that'll be true for you. [00:43:09.468 – 00:43:10.188] Thanks so much.