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[00:00:00.440 – 00:00:02.080] Tom, I'm an alcoholic. [00:00:02.080 – 00:00:03.610] Hi, Tom. [00:00:03.610 – 00:00:07.520] And a member of the Primary Purpose group in Southern Pines, North Carolina. [00:00:07.520 – 00:00:11.000] My sobriety to date is Groundhog Day of '57. [00:00:11.000 – 00:00:12.010] Ooh. [00:00:12.010 – 00:00:17.600] And, uh, when you're that old, you gotta get all you can in, 'cause it won't be much longer. [00:00:17.600 – 00:00:18.460] It's about over. [00:00:18.460 – 00:00:26.910] I am delighted to be here, and, uh, 70 minutes, uh… [00:00:26.910 – 00:00:28.680] Jeez, my paper's unmanageable. [00:00:28.680 – 00:00:38.860] Uh, I am delighted to see you, and I look forward to the, to the interactive portion of this.

[00:00:38.860 – 00:00:49.120] The, the, I was telling Chris on the way over that, that, uh, you know, when you first start thinking about a topic and a timeframe, you say, "Oh, geez, God, we don't need that much time." [00:00:49.120 – 00:00:53.519] Then you start putting it together, and you say, "Well, now what can I cut?" You know, how much can I cut? [00:00:53.519 – 00:00:56.320] And so I, I'm just gonna plow right into it. [00:00:56.320 – 00:01:03.780] And the basic d- d- thing we wanna deal with today is two, two majors for us.

[00:01:03.780 – 00:01:07.500] One is th- the group. [00:01:07.500 – 00:01:12.560] The, the group, broadly defined, the group, and, uh, it's where we do our work. [00:01:12.560 – 00:01:18.420] And the, uh, the other is the, the primary purpose. [00:01:18.420 – 00:01:20.700] You know, what, what's our focus as a group? [00:01:20.700 – 00:01:27.780] They're, they're, they're certainly integral to each other, but wanna kind of focus those things separately to, to some extent. [00:01:27.780 – 00:01:30.820] And, uh, so, uh, we'll stick to that. [00:01:30.820 – 00:01:34.300] I c- I'm from North Carolina, so I can't count to 70. [00:01:34.300 – 00:01:39.160] If, uh, if, if somebody just let me know when we're in that…

[00:01:39.160 – 00:01:41.140] Will you let me know, Anne, when we're in that ballpark? [00:01:41.140 – 00:01:41.650] Sure. [00:01:41.650 – 00:01:43.920] And I'll just quit mid-sentence. [00:01:43.920 – 00:01:46.000] I mean, I'll, I'm, I'm highly disciplined. [00:01:46.000 – 00:01:47.580] When a woman speaks, I obey. [00:01:47.580 – 00:01:50.540] Without no question. [00:01:50.540 – 00:01:55.880] When, uh… [00:01:55.880 – 00:02:01.180] Well, I wanna do just a little bit of introductory kind of stuff. [00:02:01.180 – 00:02:11.200] Won't do a whole lot of reading to you, but, uh, uh, just a couple of things that, that sort of define the environment that, that we're working [00:02:11.200 – 00:02:18.420] in, the, the, the kind of climate that we need to be a- a- attentive to when we, when we look at these issues and these concerns.

[00:02:18.420 – 00:02:24.400] One is, in Alcoholics Anonymous, we have great freedom. [00:02:24.400 – 00:02:26.480] We have enormous freedom. [00:02:26.480 – 00:02:32.440] And, uh, some of that freedom is well defined i- in our traditions. [00:02:32.440 – 00:02:39.580] In the fourth tradition, where it says, "Each group," and I like to break it down. [00:02:39.580 – 00:02:43.500] I find it a lot more understandable if I break that down to a personal level. [00:02:43.500 – 00:02:49.640] Each member, just like each group, has but one primary purpose. [00:02:49.640 – 00:02:51.119] No, it doesn't. [00:02:51.119 – 00:02:53.260] Each group ought… [00:02:53.260 – 00:02:54.540] Let me read. [00:02:54.540 – 00:02:58.760] Said I wasn't gonna read much, only when my memory fails.

[00:02:58.760 – 00:03:01.620] The, that… [00:03:01.620 – 00:03:05.700] Where the heck are the traditions? [00:03:05.700 – 00:03:10.520] I read them so much that I can't remember where they are. [00:03:10.520 – 00:03:12.000] Here they are. [00:03:12.000 – 00:03:22.000] The fourth one, which I think gives a lot of freedom: With respect to its own affairs, each AA [00:03:22.000 – 00:03:26.540] group should be responsible to no other authority than its own conscience. [00:03:26.540 – 00:03:36.820] But when its plans concern the welfare of neighboring groups also, those groups ought to be considered, [00:03:36.820 – 00:03:45.500] and no group, regional committee, or individual should ever take any action that may greatly affect AA as a whole.

[00:03:45.500 – 00:03:52.260] Without conferring with the trustees of the General Service Board on such matters, our common welfare is presumed. [00:03:52.260 – 00:03:54.960] So every member is autonomous. [00:03:54.960 – 00:04:00.460] You and me both are free to practice Alcoholics Anonymous any way we want to do it. [00:04:00.460 – 00:04:03.140] A- and we're totally free. [00:04:03.140 – 00:04:13.150] That, that absolutely is unfettered freedom, unless it interferes with the person next to you, freedom to do the same thing. [00:04:13.150 – 00:04:18.540] And so that puts a lot of, of, of freedom to me to practice this program.

[00:04:18.540 – 00:04:26.360] Nobody can effectively tell me, they can tell me, but they can't effectively tell me that I gotta do it this way or that way. [00:04:26.360 – 00:04:31.880] I'm free to do it in whatever manner that I choose to do, as long as it doesn't screw up somebody else. [00:04:31.880 – 00:04:33.480] So what does that mean in real life? [00:04:33.480 – 00:04:43.600] I can conduct myself in, in Alcoholics Anonymous any way I want to do it, but if I want to take this tradition [00:04:43.600 – 00:04:51.260] that spells out that freedom in good conscience, then that means that I have to be thoughtful about how I handle myself.

[00:04:51.260 – 00:05:01.380] Part of what Anne read in the, uh, went over in the opening part of the meeting was that we ought to be mindful of time and place and not [00:05:01.380 – 00:05:03.380] just do disruptive things, you know? [00:05:03.380 – 00:05:13.720] That we ought to be, to, to use some decorum in how we move around so that we don't disturb the meeting, so that we don't interfere with somebody else's, uh, freedom [00:05:13.720 – 00:05:15.880] to hear and to participate. [00:05:15.880 – 00:05:17.160] That's one. [00:05:17.160 – 00:05:20.080] I tell you one that, that I apply.

[00:05:20.080 – 00:05:25.530] It has a great deal to do with how I communicate to a group. [00:05:25.530 – 00:05:30.880] Now, I've got a lot of friends in this group this morning, but there are some people I don't know. [00:05:30.880 – 00:05:33.820] I don't know whether this is open or closed. [00:05:33.820 – 00:05:35.060] I, it's open, by golly. [00:05:35.060 – 00:05:37.660] I do know, because I was told last night by Chris and Barbara. [00:05:37.660 – 00:05:38.599] They would not lie. [00:05:38.599 – 00:05:40.280] They're not that kind of people. [00:05:40.280 – 00:05:43.620] Well, y'all know them better than I do now.

[00:05:43.620 – 00:05:47.080] I go- But it's an open meeting. [00:05:47.080 – 00:05:50.200] That means I don't know who's in this room. [00:05:50.200 – 00:05:54.500] Somebody might have brought their mother to the first meeting. [00:05:54.500 – 00:05:57.720] Somebody might have brought a kid that's so short I can't see them. [00:05:57.720 – 00:06:00.340] You never know who's here. [00:06:00.340 – 00:06:04.730] I, I'll give you an example of, and I'm, I'm loaded with examples. [00:06:04.730 – 00:06:06.220] That's what gets me in trouble at times. [00:06:06.220 – 00:06:16.230] The, uh- I was at a conference a while back, a good while back, and the, the

[00:06:16.230 – 00:06:21.230] fellow who spoke on Saturday night ap- apparently didn't understand his job description. [00:06:21.230 – 00:06:23.910] He thought he was supposed to be a standup comedian. [00:06:23.910 – 00:06:26.990] But he wasn't funny. [00:06:26.990 – 00:06:34.430] I, I mean if- You, you could pull that off if you, if you're funny, but forget it if you're droll. [00:06:34.430 – 00:06:38.690] And, and this guy, well, you know how it is when you start going down the sewer. [00:06:38.690 – 00:06:41.450] You know, you, you start paddling frantically, you know? [00:06:41.450 – 00:06:51.570] And so you could see this guy just going down, and the, and the further down he went, the more vile and profane and obscene he

[00:06:51.570 – 00:06:52.130] became. [00:06:52.130 – 00:06:57.230] And I guess he figured if he talked longer, it would be better. [00:06:57.230 – 00:06:59.570] And so he went an hour and a half. [00:06:59.570 – 00:07:08.270] And, uh, I'm sitting behind the lady who was unfortunate enough to have invited him to speak at that conference. [00:07:08.270 – 00:07:12.010] She was, she was the program chair, and I watched her squirming. [00:07:12.010 – 00:07:17.690] But I was really fascinated by the guy sitting next to him, to, to the program chair. [00:07:17.690 – 00:07:21.110] This fella is like a thermometer, you know?

[00:07:21.110 – 00:07:24.310] You could see his, his neck just turning red. [00:07:24.310 – 00:07:27.290] Then his ears were scarlet and glowing. [00:07:27.290 – 00:07:29.850] And, uh, it was just fascinating. [00:07:29.850 – 00:07:32.940] I thought he was gonna have a, a stroke or something right there before he was over. [00:07:32.940 – 00:07:42.990] So after the meeting, I went up to the lady and, and I, I said, "The fella sitting with you didn't seem to enjoy the speaker." She [00:07:42.990 – 00:07:44.930] said, "Oh, my God, Tom. [00:07:44.930 – 00:07:54.010] You will never know how humiliated and embarrassed I am." That was her minister at his first AA meeting.

[00:07:54.010 – 00:07:55.360] Oh. [00:07:55.360 – 00:07:58.630] I'll guarantee you he was at his last AA meeting. [00:07:58.630 – 00:08:02.830] See what I'm talking about with autonomy and freedom? [00:08:02.830 – 00:08:05.389] You know, there, there's limits on that. [00:08:05.389 – 00:08:15.670] And if I'm gonna be responsible about this freedom, then I have to be mindful that I can't just assume blanket kind of acceptance [00:08:15.670 – 00:08:17.510] for any way I want to conduct myself. [00:08:17.510 – 00:08:20.770] It's just not responsible on my part. [00:08:20.770 – 00:08:23.490] For that reason, I'm pretty squeaky clean. [00:08:23.490 – 00:08:25.440] You know, I'm, you know, I… [00:08:25.440 – 00:08:29.810] Well, I'm not pretty squeaky clean, I'm very squeaky clean by design.

[00:08:29.810 – 00:08:33.410] And it's because of that responsibility that I feel. [00:08:33.410 – 00:08:39.110] I can't just assume that people are gonna give me a license just to do my own thing, it's, it's regardless, whatever. [00:08:39.110 – 00:08:45.650] So it's that kind of thing, where the great freedom also contains great responsibility. [00:08:45.650 – 00:08:53.190] And so that's one of the things kind of influences about when I think about a group or I think about my function in a group, real freedom. [00:08:53.190 – 00:08:54.170] Third Tradition. [00:08:54.170 – 00:08:58.990] Third Tradition gives as much freedom as could pos…

[00:08:58.990 – 00:09:06.910] I, I swear to God, we have got to be, for a spiritually disciplined group of people, we've got to have as much freedom as anybody I've ever seen. [00:09:06.910 – 00:09:12.209] The only requirement for membership is for you to say you're a member. [00:09:12.209 – 00:09:13.490] That's all. [00:09:13.490 – 00:09:16.270] Nobody sits in judgment. [00:09:16.270 – 00:09:19.170] There's no screening committee, no resume required. [00:09:19.170 – 00:09:25.029] If you say you're a member, you're a member, and nobody can tell you you're not. [00:09:25.029 – 00:09:31.430] You have to self-diagnose and self, and self-declare that you're a member.

[00:09:31.430 – 00:09:33.510] I tell you, this is high cotton now for me. [00:09:33.510 – 00:09:36.810] Here, here's an old country- [00:09:36.943 – 00:09:40.163] Boy from North Carolina in Portland, Oregon. [00:09:40.163 – 00:09:43.703] God knows drinking Starbucks coffee. [00:09:43.703 – 00:09:45.883] That's, is that ready or what? [00:09:45.883 – 00:09:46.183] Huh? [00:09:46.183 – 00:09:51.703] If they could just see me back home, they'd be so proud. [00:09:51.703 – 00:09:58.463] That, or disown me. [00:09:58.463 – 00:09:59.623] I'm not sure which. [00:09:59.623 – 00:10:03.843] The, uh, let, let me, there's one other thing I wanna read. [00:10:03.843 – 00:10:05.383] Let me tell you how it s- how we say it here. [00:10:05.383 – 00:10:13.623] Our membership, our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism.

[00:10:13.623 – 00:10:23.703] Hence, we may refuse none who wish to recover, nor ought AA membership ever depend upon money or conformity. [00:10:23.703 – 00:10:33.723] Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for, for sobriety may call themselves an AA group, provided that, as [00:10:33.723 – 00:10:35.223] a group, they have no other affiliation. [00:10:35.223 – 00:10:41.223] Could you imagine a more generous kind of provision for how we go into business? [00:10:41.223 – 00:10:46.283] There no franchise discipline or charter or constitution or bylaws. [00:10:46.283 – 00:10:57.683] If two or three of us here wanted to go out here and sit in a car and declare it an AA group, that's what it is, provided we're not hooked in with AAA

[00:10:57.683 – 00:10:59.283] or the local police or whatever. [00:10:59.283 – 00:11:00.923] But we could do that. [00:11:00.923 – 00:11:02.123] We're free to do that. [00:11:02.123 – 00:11:07.043] And, uh, and so my membership is self-discla- declared. [00:11:07.043 – 00:11:10.223] My affiliation with a group is self-discl- declared. [00:11:10.223 – 00:11:15.203] Enormous freedom, but responsibilities that go with it, that we'll visit just a little bit. [00:11:15.203 – 00:11:23.903] And, uh, the one other thing I wanna read, and then I'm gonna get into preaching, is, That's a warning. [00:11:23.903 – 00:11:25.143] But I, don't leave now. [00:11:25.143 – 00:11:26.283] I don't mean I'm gonna preach hard.

[00:11:26.283 – 00:11:29.343] Just gonna, just gonna preach a little bit. [00:11:29.343 – 00:11:29.963] Gosh. [00:11:29.963 – 00:11:36.263] Uh, it, it, it's, it's about Fifth Tradition, that single purpose. [00:11:36.263 – 00:11:40.643] Each group has but one primary purpose, to carry its message to the alcoholic still suffering. [00:11:40.643 – 00:11:45.463] This is something Bill wrote a long, long time ago, the founder. [00:11:45.463 – 00:11:53.263] There are those who predict that AA may well become a new spearhead for a spiritual awakening throughout the world. [00:11:53.263 – 00:12:03.763] Now, if you look at the pr- preface to Twelve and Twelve, you'll see that, that little observation in there that someday this, this, these, these principles may find utility

[00:12:03.763 – 00:12:06.443] broadly in this world, and that's certainly come to pass, eh? [00:12:06.443 – 00:12:13.203] You know, how many f- f- programs there are that have spun off with these principles and, and, and there's nothing wrong with that. [00:12:13.203 – 00:12:14.683] They're, they're not our principles. [00:12:14.683 – 00:12:20.163] They're age-old principles, and we just codified them into a, to a, to a method that worked for alcoholics. [00:12:20.163 – 00:12:22.483] And so other people find application in many, many ways. [00:12:22.483 – 00:12:23.223] Nothing wrong with that. [00:12:23.223 – 00:12:27.263] But here's the thing, I think, where we have to really be cautious.

[00:12:27.263 – 00:12:32.743] Th- there are those who predict that we may become a new spearhead for a spiritual awakening throughout the world. [00:12:32.743 – 00:12:38.882] There was a group called the Washingtonians that got that idea, and they're now defunct. [00:12:38.882 – 00:12:47.203] And, and so the, the, the, the, the, the warning in this, I guess for us, when our friends say these things, they are both generous and sincere. [00:12:47.203 – 00:12:55.583] But we of AA must reflect that such a tribute and such a prophecy could well prove to be a heady drink for most of us.

[00:12:55.583 – 00:13:07.343] That is, if we really came to believe this to be the real purpose of AA, and if we commenced to behave accordingly, that [00:13:07.343 – 00:13:12.803] dangerous heady wine, if we started thinking that we've got the panacea for everything. [00:13:12.803 – 00:13:23.023] You know, what's well established and, and I think well s- stated in this Fifth Tradition, we do one thing better than this world has ever seen. [00:13:23.023 – 00:13:24.623] We do one thing. [00:13:24.623 – 00:13:28.843] That does not make us expert on anything else. [00:13:28.843 – 00:13:31.303] We do thr- one thing extremely well.

[00:13:31.303 – 00:13:41.303] And when we start to deviate and expand that into other things, we do it at the expense of what we do well, is I think that's the, the real, [00:13:41.303 – 00:13:44.883] the message in, in what, uh, what Bill was writing h- here. [00:13:44.883 – 00:13:55.283] And he s- he finished with this: Our society, therefore, will prudently cleave to its single purpose, the carrying of the message to the alcoholic still suffers. [00:13:55.283 – 00:14:04.263] Let us resist the proud assumptions that since God has enabled us to do well in one area, we're destined to be a channel of saving grace for everybody.

[00:14:04.263 – 00:14:07.923] So at, the, the Fifth Tradition is not about expansive thinking. [00:14:07.923 – 00:14:14.363] It's about s- about sizing ourselves appropriately to what it is that we do. [00:14:14.363 – 00:14:20.663] So great freedom to do that within the, the realm of that under- that understanding. [00:14:20.663 – 00:14:27.483] The, uh, I just wanna call out the, call out these things as they're sort of set to stage what we're gonna discuss. [00:14:27.483 – 00:14:31.883] Second Tradition, you know, each, e- each… [00:14:31.883 – 00:14:34.273] Oh, I can't think of the, the… [00:14:34.273 – 00:14:36.123] Each group. [00:14:36.123 – 00:14:39.163] Well, I swear to God, I'm losing it.

[00:14:39.163 – 00:14:41.403] And that's in Spanish. [00:14:41.403 – 00:14:48.343] That won't, that won't help a bit. [00:14:48.343 – 00:14:51.983] Un- un- unless we're in a bar room. [00:14:51.983 – 00:14:53.043] I can handle it in there. [00:14:53.043 – 00:15:03.123] The, the Second Tradition, for our group purpose, there is but one ultimate authority, a loving God as [00:15:03.123 – 00:15:05.483] he may express himself in our group conscience. [00:15:05.483 – 00:15:08.483] And so that's a great thing. [00:15:08.483 – 00:15:15.523] That says that, you know, Anne is the president here this morning, but as soon as this is over, she's dead meat. [00:15:15.523 – 00:15:19.603] It's, uh, that's the way it is.

[00:15:19.603 – 00:15:21.063] We don't have bosses. [00:15:21.063 – 00:15:23.243] We don't have dictators or folk in charge. [00:15:23.243 – 00:15:27.643] And just 'cause I'm doing most of the talking this morning doesn't mean I got any more authority. [00:15:27.643 – 00:15:31.013] I'm just a guy gonna get on an airplane about dawn tomorrow morning- … [00:15:31.013 – 00:15:34.083] and, uh, get back to North Carolina, where they'll put me in my place. [00:15:34.083 – 00:15:39.023] The, uh, But there's no, no authority implied in that. [00:15:39.023 – 00:15:46.723] Great freedom, you know, that we don't have leaders and dictators and quality control and inspectors and managers and this kind of stuff.

[00:15:46.723 – 00:15:51.963] You know, we are s- we are spiritually responsible and free to act. [00:15:51.963 – 00:15:55.127] As long as we don't grind up the principles in the process. [00:15:55.127 – 00:15:57.527] And I, I think that's the, that's the real message of that. [00:15:57.527 – 00:16:07.867] And then, you know, the, the first tradition that I've just mentioned, which, th- th- it's only the foundation of all of our traditions, that, um, [00:16:07.867 – 00:16:09.727] for our common welfare should come first. [00:16:09.727 – 00:16:15.267] My welfare should come first if you're, you're looking at it personally.

[00:16:15.267 – 00:16:20.007] Uh, our common, our common welfare should come first. [00:16:20.007 – 00:16:22.387] I got a blind, a blinder on this morning. [00:16:22.387 – 00:16:23.647] It… [00:16:23.647 – 00:16:29.686] I keep reading this long form. [00:16:29.686 – 00:16:33.047] There goes my 70 minutes. [00:16:33.047 – 00:16:36.807] I guess I'll just read the long form. [00:16:36.807 – 00:16:41.147] Each member of Alcoholics Anonymous is but a small part of a great whole. [00:16:41.147 – 00:16:44.787] A- A must continue to live, or most of us will surely die. [00:16:44.787 – 00:16:46.967] Hence, our common welfare comes first. [00:16:46.967 – 00:16:51.807] But ind- individual welfare follows close afterward. [00:16:51.807 – 00:16:59.347] And, and so, you know, you know what that said to me individually and as a group, that for our group purpose…

[00:16:59.347 – 00:16:59.907] What is that? [00:16:59.907 – 00:17:01.957] What is our group purpose? [00:17:01.957 – 00:17:05.087] You know, we, that was one of the first things we talk about in the fifth tradition. [00:17:05.087 – 00:17:07.447] Each group has but one primary purpose. [00:17:07.447 – 00:17:09.367] That's all, one primary purpose. [00:17:09.367 – 00:17:13.026] And for that purpose, there is no authority. [00:17:13.026 – 00:17:15.287] You know, Chris has got one way to do it. [00:17:15.287 – 00:17:16.487] Barb's got a way to do it. [00:17:16.487 – 00:17:17.606] I've got a way to do it. [00:17:17.606 – 00:17:20.887] And while they may look alike, they're not the same thing.

[00:17:20.887 – 00:17:25.067] We'll each have our own way, and there is no the way to do it. [00:17:25.067 – 00:17:29.227] You said conformity is- Somebody needs that. [00:17:29.227 – 00:17:30.107] Bless your heart. [00:17:30.107 – 00:17:30.807] Bless your heart. [00:17:30.807 – 00:17:31.807] You knew I was blind. [00:17:31.807 – 00:17:34.447] You said, I appreciate that very much. [00:17:34.447 – 00:17:37.747] Now that I'm through reading. [00:17:37.747 – 00:17:42.807] Yeah, thanks a lot. [00:17:42.807 – 00:17:46.207] Yeah. [00:17:46.207 – 00:17:56.367] So, so it's a, it's a great, uh, uh, uh, a great thing to, to, to think about, you know, what is it that we're talking about here, that we've got no

[00:17:56.367 – 00:18:01.167] bosses about how we do this work, 'cause, uh, uh, your way is gonna be effective with somebody. [00:18:01.167 – 00:18:08.747] Everybody in this room has a message that somebody needs to hear from you, not from me. [00:18:08.747 – 00:18:11.347] You got a message that somebody needs to hear. [00:18:11.347 – 00:18:11.967] We all do. [00:18:11.967 – 00:18:15.567] And so there's no real, real the way to do that thing. [00:18:15.567 – 00:18:23.146] And, and the other thing I'll just, just visit for a moment, and the only authority of a loving God is express himself in our group conscience.

[00:18:23.146 – 00:18:29.567] Other than why we take up money, I really appreciate you reading the long form on the, on the self-support. [00:18:29.567 – 00:18:35.067] Mo- most, unfortunately, most people never hear what we do with the money. [00:18:35.067 – 00:18:41.407] You know, you, you read past the page, say, "Well, we got expenses," but don't say what they are, you know. [00:18:41.407 – 00:18:42.847] Or we buy coffee, you know. [00:18:42.847 – 00:18:45.767] Well, my God, that's the least important thing we do with our money. [00:18:45.767 – 00:18:49.147] So I'm glad to hear that, you know, a little explanation what it's about.

[00:18:49.147 – 00:18:59.467] Uh, the other thing that I think is, is really, uh, misconstrued a lot [00:18:59.467 – 00:19:03.147] a- around, just based on what I, I hear around the country, is group conscience. [00:19:03.147 – 00:19:08.727] You know, a group conscience is a, is a heavy instrument. [00:19:08.727 – 00:19:11.247] It's not a business meeting. [00:19:11.247 – 00:19:13.676] You know, a lot of people call a business meeting- [00:19:13.813 – 00:19:15.473] In a group conscience. [00:19:15.473 – 00:19:18.113] And that's nothing but just taking care of business. [00:19:18.113 – 00:19:21.993] That's just the day-to-day stuff like paying the bills in a house, you know.

[00:19:21.993 – 00:19:27.813] It, it's, it's a level, and it's an important level, but it's far away from a group conscience. [00:19:27.813 – 00:19:37.693] The group conscience is prayerful consideration, prayerful consideration of an issue that impacts on our primary purpose. [00:19:37.693 – 00:19:47.933] And so when we too lightly use the group conscience, what we do is, is render it almost meaningless and, and, and, and instead of reserving [00:19:47.933 – 00:19:53.193] it for the things that really matter about the, the, the quality and, and methods by which we work.

[00:19:53.193 – 00:19:55.553] Uh, so those are freedoms. [00:19:55.553 – 00:20:02.453] And I've, I've alluded to some of the, some of the, uh, some of the responsibilities along with it. [00:20:02.453 – 00:20:09.333] I would reiterate that there is no police force for this stuff. [00:20:09.333 – 00:20:15.893] We are all free moral agents and hopefully m- uh, responsible moral agents. [00:20:15.893 – 00:20:19.813] But we're all that because there is no central authority. [00:20:19.813 – 00:20:21.733] There's nobody to report to. [00:20:21.733 – 00:20:31.773] I, I sponsored a guy that in another town, and he, uh, he, he really got out of joint 'cause he was away on a trip somewhere, and when he came

[00:20:31.773 – 00:20:36.673] back, the group had made a decision that just made him livid. [00:20:36.673 – 00:20:43.373] And so he called me and told me he was in mortal distress and needed to see me, so that was a bad mistake. [00:20:43.373 – 00:20:44.493] So I went by to see him. [00:20:44.493 – 00:20:48.113] Passed right by his house. [00:20:48.113 – 00:20:50.673] And he's sitting there, and he looked about like this office. [00:20:50.673 – 00:20:53.453] He had every book AA's ever printed. [00:20:53.453 – 00:21:03.313] And, and, and I said, "What are you looking for?" He said, "I know that what they did is not right.

[00:21:03.313 – 00:21:13.353] They can't do that." And I said, "Buddy, I hate to tell you, but you can study every word of, in every book, and you're not [00:21:13.353 – 00:21:18.193] gonna find one thing that says they're right, uh, and, or they're wrong and you're right. [00:21:18.193 – 00:21:19.553] It ain't in there. [00:21:19.553 – 00:21:20.813] It ain't in there. [00:21:20.813 – 00:21:31.033] It's good conscience of trying to do what's in the common welfare." And so I told him, I said, "Anytime you miss a business meeting, you voted for whatever they do."

[00:21:31.033 – 00:21:36.353] It's called an absentee ballot, I guess, is what we'd call that today. [00:21:36.353 – 00:21:38.833] But anyway, that's, that's what happened. [00:21:38.833 – 00:21:48.833] So the, uh, the, uh, the groundwork is, is, is, uh, is, is [00:21:48.833 – 00:21:54.033] kind of important to understand that to me, it's kind of important in understanding that environment that we work in. [00:21:54.033 – 00:22:04.673] And, uh, I, I tell you, and, and, and I don't want to be apologetic, but, but neither do I wanna [00:22:04.673 – 00:22:07.633] to, to, to create any kind of an image that's not right.

[00:22:07.633 – 00:22:11.073] Uh, I'm one member of AA. [00:22:11.073 – 00:22:12.173] That's all. [00:22:12.173 – 00:22:13.853] I got one vote. [00:22:13.853 – 00:22:17.373] I got the same vote as the newest guy that walks in my group tomorrow. [00:22:17.373 – 00:22:19.653] You know, that's, that's exactly what I've got. [00:22:19.653 – 00:22:23.413] I've got concern about our fellowship. [00:22:23.413 – 00:22:25.393] I've got concern about that. [00:22:25.393 – 00:22:31.133] And when, when– my belief is when I've got concern, I've got responsibility to act. [00:22:31.133 – 00:22:38.073] And so one reason I would bother to take some time to talk about these kind of issues, I think they're important issues.

[00:22:38.073 – 00:22:44.053] And I talk about it because I'm concerned, not because I'm brilliant and have got the answer. [00:22:44.053 – 00:22:50.473] So, so please bear in mind what I said about the no police force and there's no quality control people. [00:22:50.473 – 00:22:53.672] It's just– What I want to share with you is just sort of one guy's observation. [00:22:53.672 – 00:23:00.093] What is it that would make a guy like me, I'm a little over forty-eight years sober. [00:23:00.093 – 00:23:02.053] Uh, life is good. [00:23:02.053 – 00:23:03.533] You know, I'm unemployed. [00:23:03.533 – 00:23:06.673] I mean, that's kind of a sad story in itself, but it's…

[00:23:06.673 – 00:23:11.813] But I'm unemployed on a fixed income that's fairly comfortably fixed. [00:23:11.813 – 00:23:16.403] So, so I'm having a great time. [00:23:16.403 – 00:23:17.993] It, this thing. [00:23:17.993 – 00:23:25.873] Uh, and, and, uh, but other, uh, that's, that's who I am, just one, one member that, that's concerned. [00:23:25.873 – 00:23:27.553] Let me tell you some stuff I'm concerned about. [00:23:27.553 – 00:23:31.413] When I look, and I travel all over the place. [00:23:31.413 – 00:23:41.593] And when I look at the, at the, at the AA terrain, let, let me tell you what concerns me a lot and, and, and what makes this kind of a thing we're talking about today,

[00:23:41.593 – 00:23:42.673] I, I think important. [00:23:42.673 – 00:23:50.713] What I see when I look at the program is that we're going– we've been going through changes. [00:23:50.713 – 00:23:53.932] We always will, ever since the day I came in here. [00:23:53.932 – 00:23:57.753] We are a radically different fellowship than we were when I came in. [00:23:57.753 – 00:24:08.253] Uh, just to say it very simply, you know, when I came in, you could safely say that every member who came in, came in because of a personal relationship [00:24:08.253 – 00:24:10.453] with another member, another member.

[00:24:10.453 – 00:24:20.553] Practically every one of us who came in did so because somebody reached out and took our hand and said, "Come on, go with us." That created an enormous loyalty [00:24:20.553 – 00:24:22.493] to that ethic in Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:24:22.493 – 00:24:30.373] You don't have to look far to see that that ethic is extremely diminished, almost nonexistent to, in, in this world today. [00:24:30.373 – 00:24:35.213] So there have been a lot of changes that are related to that change, to that kind of a thing. [00:24:35.213 – 00:24:38.993] And so over the years, owing to a lot of stuff, that for one.

[00:24:38.993 – 00:24:43.573] But owing to a lot of stuff, there, there have been changes, some of them very troubling. [00:24:43.573 – 00:24:53.593] One of them that's troubling to me is, it's the amazing proliferation of more and more casual [00:24:53.593 – 00:24:57.033] meetings that are barely groups at all. [00:24:57.033 – 00:25:01.473] I mean, uh, let, let me, let me get you to just use your imagination. [00:25:01.473 – 00:25:04.633] I was looking around for a weasel to ride on, but I didn't see one. [00:25:04.633 – 00:25:08.413] So, uh, pretend there's a big weasel up here.

[00:25:08.413 – 00:25:18.633] And, uh, and what, what, what, what, what I'd like to invite you to, to consider Say on this side, [00:25:18.633 – 00:25:29.053] if you look at a continuum of how we function in Alcoholics Anonymous, with one side of the weasel here and one over here, and you put a continuum [00:25:29.053 – 00:25:30.373] of, of, of groups. [00:25:30.373 – 00:25:40.133] The type I'm talking about now that are the c- real casual, sort of lightweight groups in my, in my way of thinking, would be over here.

[00:25:40.133 – 00:25:46.113] You've got some groups or meetings that really are not groups. [00:25:46.113 – 00:25:48.513] They're, they're just sort of a gathering of alcoholics. [00:25:48.513 – 00:25:49.833] I, I'll give you a real live… [00:25:49.833 – 00:25:53.873] I won't give details, but I'll give you a real live example of it. [00:25:53.873 – 00:25:58.113] I was in Washington a couple of days ago, your neighboring state. [00:25:58.113 – 00:25:59.333] They blame it on Oregon. [00:25:59.333 – 00:26:08.853] But but they– I, I was struck on a busman's holiday, I guess. [00:26:08.853 – 00:26:11.373] I, I was t– I, I looked, I looked into some little material.

[00:26:11.373 – 00:26:14.013] I was trying to spot something about how they communicate at AA there. [00:26:14.013 – 00:26:23.953] The only listing they had in that town was, uh, services for seniors and right under it said Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:26:23.953 – 00:26:26.753] And I said, "Well, I'm a senior," so I called up. [00:26:26.753 – 00:26:35.173] And, uh, it– a long story short, it was, uh, there was nobody there, but they were very responsible at the place that I called, at some kind of senior place. [00:26:35.173 – 00:26:39.833] They said, "No, there used to be a meeting here, but there's not." And she said, "Let me get your phone number." Got me a phone number.

[00:26:39.833 – 00:26:40.393] Called up. [00:26:40.393 – 00:26:43.293] Just an average guy calling in to a hotline. [00:26:43.293 – 00:26:47.193] It turned to be one of those where a members work a shift and they answer the phone. [00:26:47.193 – 00:26:49.993] Got a g- a little, nice little gal named Kate. [00:26:49.993 – 00:26:59.863] And she said, "Oh, yeah, yeah, there's meetings here in town." I says, "Then," well, I told her where I stay and says, "Anything over near here?" She said, "Yeah." She gave me a choice, six, seven, and eight. [00:26:59.863 – 00:27:09.933] I said, "Well, my home group meets at seven." I said, "I'll go to seven." Well, went in and, uh, won't go into a whole bunch of detail with it, but, uh, it was not

[00:27:09.933 – 00:27:13.273] the worst AA meeting I've, I've, I've, I've, I've ever gone to. [00:27:13.273 – 00:27:13.933] It was not. [00:27:13.933 – 00:27:16.113] But it was in competition. [00:27:16.113 – 00:27:21.853] It, it, it It, it was pretty sad, I tell you what. [00:27:21.853 – 00:27:24.553] It w- I walked in. [00:27:24.553 – 00:27:28.293] I mean, there was a, a few people sitting in there, three or four. [00:27:28.293 – 00:27:36.033] And they– I walked in, I might as well have been the janitor or somebody or just, just somebody, a tourist walking by, and nobody even gr-gr-grunted. [00:27:36.033 – 00:27:40.293] So I walked in, I interrupted the conversation and said, "Give me your hand.

[00:27:40.293 – 00:27:43.513] I, I wanna meet you." You know, so I rattled them up, you know. [00:27:43.513 – 00:27:44.653] It didn't rattle them much. [00:27:44.653 – 00:27:46.373] It had no lasting effect. [00:27:46.373 – 00:27:51.473] But, but I was persistent, you know, so I sort of attacked everybody there. [00:27:51.473 – 00:27:53.933] I went over to speak to one guy and it startled him. [00:27:53.933 – 00:27:55.783] You know, he, he shook. [00:27:55.783 – 00:27:57.393] He wasn't used to that kind of behavior. [00:27:57.393 – 00:28:00.993] And, uh, I guess they finally saw I wasn't hustling them. [00:28:00.993 – 00:28:05.133] But then we proceeded to have a meeting.

[00:28:05.133 – 00:28:13.313] Uh, there was one girl, I believe, who was on staff at that hospital, was scared to death somebody was gonna see her in there at her first meeting. [00:28:13.313 – 00:28:19.233] Well, I'm sorry that she made that as her first meeting. [00:28:19.233 – 00:28:28.933] I don't believe that the most experienced AA member in the world could have gone in there and identified what was happening as Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:28:28.933 – 00:28:32.013] It looked like a Tower of Babel. [00:28:32.013 – 00:28:40.893] I mean, absolutely wandering, aimless, ill-defined, nothing that really defined it as AA.

[00:28:40.893 – 00:28:45.513] And, and what I was thinking, I'm a guy that's driving out of town, you know. [00:28:45.513 – 00:28:50.383] And, and so I, I threw in a few things trying to, you know, deepen the agenda a little bit. [00:28:51.063 – 00:28:53.723] But, um, I mean, you gotta deal with what you got. [00:28:53.723 – 00:29:00.463] And, uh, so anyway, that one would be very definitely on this end of the spectrum. [00:29:00.463 – 00:29:04.683] The only function of that meeting was to meet. [00:29:04.683 – 00:29:06.323] That's all. [00:29:06.323 – 00:29:11.363] There was nothing that preceded it and nothing that followed it.

[00:29:11.363 – 00:29:20.103] The only real function of that was to meet for one hour and then disband and go. [00:29:20.103 – 00:29:23.103] Now, that's about as lightweight as you can get. [00:29:23.103 – 00:29:25.783] Yeah, that's– So that would be one end of it. [00:29:25.783 – 00:29:28.803] Of some, I've gone into some that didn't have a chair. [00:29:28.803 – 00:29:37.643] You know, they're just nothing, just a gaggle of people who come together, and they kind of meet for whatever purpose it is, you know. [00:29:37.643 – 00:29:38.903] I've, I've never been into that. [00:29:38.903 – 00:29:41.683] I've been in it a lot, but I've never been into it.

[00:29:41.683 – 00:29:43.983] And so that would be on this end. [00:29:43.983 – 00:29:47.863] And then you've got incremental increases in that. [00:29:47.863 – 00:29:58.063] You've got some meetings that are not heavily structured, but as you grow, you know, in, in, uh, what I consider quality of, of, of meetings [00:29:58.063 – 00:30:03.323] that really have great purpose, that you're getting what we're talking about here, you're gonna see more and more structure. [00:30:03.323 – 00:30:07.602] And then all the way over here, you, you're gonna see groups like mine. [00:30:07.602 – 00:30:11.783] Mine is a s- well-structured group.

[00:30:11.783 – 00:30:19.983] You know, Anne and I were talking about how we were gonna do this workshop, and I told her I was a believer in structure, and she said, "Me too." Let me tell you why I believe in structure. [00:30:19.983 – 00:30:21.383] It's not because I'm rigid. [00:30:21.383 – 00:30:26.083] I'm probably a little rigid, but- It's not because I'm rigid. [00:30:26.083 – 00:30:32.403] I find structure to be an enormously valuable asset because it makes clear what we're gonna do. [00:30:32.403 – 00:30:35.523] She gave me a real generous license. [00:30:35.523 – 00:30:45.943] She said, "Well, you know, here's what we're scheduled to do and, uh, and, uh, you know, you can do some more if you want to." Well, I don't want to do that because

[00:30:45.943 – 00:30:48.463] truth in advertising is pretty important. [00:30:48.463 – 00:30:54.283] So what she did is got up here and said we're gonna do, uh, f- uh, f- what? [00:30:54.283 – 00:30:56.953] An hour and forty-five minutes, something like that. [00:30:56.953 – 00:30:57.203] Yeah. [00:30:57.203 – 00:31:01.443] She said Tom's gonna do seventy minutes, then we'll do thirty-five of this. [00:31:01.443 – 00:31:06.303] All right, that tells you what the agenda is, so you can relax and enjoy it. [00:31:06.303 – 00:31:10.023] You know, I told you she's gonna give me a signal when to quit, and I'll quit mid-sentence.

[00:31:10.023 – 00:31:12.843] I'm not gonna stretch the, the… [00:31:12.843 – 00:31:15.463] See, structure lets you relax and enjoy. [00:31:15.463 – 00:31:20.503] If it's ill-defined, everybody has a little anxiety about what's gonna happen and when it's gonna happen. [00:31:20.503 – 00:31:22.083] You know, who's gonna make it happen. [00:31:22.083 – 00:31:26.083] So mine would be way over here somewhere. [00:31:26.083 – 00:31:36.143] Mine, for people that don't like structure, would gag at, at my group because we were talking last night, uh, we, we, we, [00:31:36.143 – 00:31:36.303] uh… [00:31:36.303 – 00:31:39.583] Anyway, I'm gon– I'll tell you about that when I start to finish up.

[00:31:39.583 – 00:31:43.503] I, I want to I want to, I want to brag about it some. [00:31:43.503 – 00:31:47.163] What time are you gonna ring the bell on me? [00:31:47.163 – 00:31:48.143] At nine, what? [00:31:48.143 – 00:31:49.543] T-ten what? [00:31:49.543 – 00:31:50.583] Ten after. [00:31:50.583 – 00:31:50.813] Ten after? [00:31:50.813 – 00:31:50.813] Yeah. [00:31:50.813 – 00:31:51.343] Okay, good. [00:31:51.343 – 00:31:53.103] That gives me a little bit of a fix. [00:31:53.103 – 00:31:59.083] Um, so, so what would be the characteristics of this? [00:31:59.083 – 00:32:01.323] You know, what– how would you tell one from the other? [00:32:01.323 – 00:32:05.923] Now, I'm probably singing to the choir, uh, to, to, to some great extent here.

[00:32:05.923 – 00:32:14.783] But if you look at, at these things, to a casual observer, they probably wouldn't look all that much different. [00:32:14.783 – 00:32:17.723] But what would you see if you looked at it… [00:32:17.723 – 00:32:25.103] God, I'm sloppy with that, and I'm not used to drinking out of a prissy kind of cup. [00:32:25.103 – 00:32:36.313] But I even messed up Chris's car with it If, [00:32:36.313 – 00:32:46.803] if you looked at meetings, you know, like go over to this end of the weasel here, and you look at meetings, what you will tend to see with,

[00:32:46.803 – 00:32:53.663] with, with recommend– recognizing the incremental improvements as you go from one extreme to the other… [00:32:53.663 – 00:32:55.063] Great. [00:32:55.063 – 00:32:55.983] Thank you very much. [00:32:55.983 – 00:32:58.403] He also gave me the rope to move. [00:32:58.403 – 00:33:01.183] They had me tied to the podium at first. [00:33:01.183 – 00:33:11.383] But I told him I was, I was pretty bad about causing people to throw stuff, and I like to be light on my feet, so- So [00:33:11.383 – 00:33:12.443] I can get out the way. [00:33:12.443 – 00:33:21.783] So if you're looking at this kind of a thing, what you're gonna see over on this end would be– Now, these are just idle str- observations.

[00:33:21.783 – 00:33:25.043] You would see little structure. [00:33:25.043 – 00:33:28.543] Average meeting will have one or two officers at best. [00:33:28.543 – 00:33:33.683] Those very frequently are one meeting types like Anne. [00:33:33.683 – 00:33:36.523] They're the one meeting type chairs. [00:33:36.523 – 00:33:38.363] They chair the meeting. [00:33:38.363 – 00:33:39.163] They run the meeting. [00:33:39.163 – 00:33:39.963] It's all over. [00:33:39.963 – 00:33:45.443] They may have– They usually have somebody to take the money and do something with it. [00:33:45.443 – 00:33:48.763] And so that's usually about it for that. [00:33:48.763 – 00:33:53.803] It'll be a rare meeting on that end of the spectrum. [00:33:53.803 – 00:34:04.123] You think– What do you think would have happened in that group I just described in Washington if I'd have said, "Who's your GSR?" They'd say, "What?" They'd

[00:34:04.123 – 00:34:05.333] say, "What? [00:34:05.333 – 00:34:10.143] What?" You know, it would have been totally foreign language, I bet you. [00:34:10.143 – 00:34:13.143] So as– You, you're gonna see very little structure. [00:34:13.143 – 00:34:17.583] There'll be very little kind of establishment for decision-making. [00:34:17.583 – 00:34:24.763] It'll tend to be, which is like I said about that one, the meeting is it. [00:34:24.763 – 00:34:28.543] It may be wonderful, but that, that's it. [00:34:28.543 – 00:34:30.063] That's all there is. [00:34:30.063 – 00:34:30.963] There ain't no more. [00:34:30.963 – 00:34:34.963] So it's for the purpose of doing a meeting. [00:34:34.963 – 00:34:42.023] It's, it's almost like AA aftercare, you know, where, where you just sort of go and chat about stuff.

[00:34:42.023 – 00:34:43.743] You know, you chat about whatever comes up. [00:34:43.743 – 00:34:51.803] Um, limited leadership is, is basically just reiterate what I said in the structure. [00:34:51.803 – 00:34:53.723] There'll be very limited leadership. [00:34:53.723 – 00:35:01.435] The, uh, linkage to AA as a whole is dubious at best. [00:35:01.435 – 00:35:03.655] Linkage. [00:35:03.655 – 00:35:04.995] What am I talking about with linkage? [00:35:04.995 – 00:35:11.474] I'm talking about being a link in this chain of, of love and service that we call Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:35:11.474 – 00:35:19.915] Now, they do– The, the, the lady at the, at the, who answered the phone had a meeting directory, and it was in the directory.

[00:35:19.915 – 00:35:21.355] And that's what she did. [00:35:21.355 – 00:35:23.095] She read to me what was in the directory. [00:35:23.095 – 00:35:25.195] Does that make it linked to AA? [00:35:25.195 – 00:35:26.395] No. [00:35:26.395 – 00:35:27.395] No, not in the least. [00:35:27.395 – 00:35:31.754] It is– But it's– I mean, it's better not, but just barely. [00:35:31.754 – 00:35:32.995] Just barely. [00:35:32.995 – 00:35:38.595] And so what is it that links you to, to the, to, to, to Alcoholics Anonymous? [00:35:38.595 – 00:35:46.385] It's kind of relationships that are forged with other groups where you start to participate in, in stuff like that. [00:35:46.385 – 00:35:48.835] There may be people here from, from meetings like that this morning.

[00:35:48.835 – 00:35:51.555] But it's a casual kind of a thing. [00:35:51.555 – 00:35:53.735] There's not a representation type of thing in it. [00:35:53.735 – 00:36:00.535] GSRs usually are, are nonexistent or non-functional in the kinds of meetings I'm talking about. [00:36:00.535 – 00:36:10.715] They, they– And the GSR, just like there's a pamphlet in here somewhere that says it, may be the most important job in Alcoholics Anonymous because it's the one thing [00:36:10.715 – 00:36:20.915] that connects us to the fellowship as a whole, that makes us a vital part of the program of Alcoholics Anonymous and not just a gaggle of alcoholics entertaining

[00:36:20.915 – 00:36:24.635] each other, you know, or, or fixing each other, whatever we do. [00:36:24.635 – 00:36:32.955] So, so it's, it's gonna be– linkage is gonna be– They'll tend to be convenience-oriented. [00:36:32.955 – 00:36:37.655] You, you find an awful lot of them at opportune times. [00:36:37.655 – 00:36:40.975] Now, that's not totally bad, you know. [00:36:40.975 – 00:36:46.695] If I dare s- Well, I gotta be careful. [00:36:46.695 – 00:36:48.695] I was– Maybe somebody from Chamber of Commerce. [00:36:48.695 – 00:36:58.915] But if I lived in Portland and I had to drive through that mess to get out of here, and there was a five thirty meeting,

[00:36:58.915 – 00:37:03.435] I might be tempted to catch that dude and wait for the traffic to clear. [00:37:03.435 – 00:37:05.415] Now, I might be tempted. [00:37:05.415 – 00:37:07.195] So convenience is not all bad. [00:37:07.195 – 00:37:08.635] Sometimes it's sensible. [00:37:08.635 – 00:37:17.735] But when that becomes my program of action, it starts to have a little bit of shaky quality to it. [00:37:17.735 – 00:37:21.975] Yeah, I think there's great therapy in suiting up and showing up. [00:37:21.975 – 00:37:29.655] I think there's great therapy involved in that, of taking responsibility to go to it and not just sort of casually drop in.

[00:37:29.655 – 00:37:33.315] Just sort of ups the ante a little bit on, on the, on the game. [00:37:33.315 – 00:37:36.755] So they'll tend to be con– You see a lot of bag lunch. [00:37:36.755 – 00:37:40.315] You, you know, so they meet around clubs and, you know, stuff like that. [00:37:40.315 – 00:37:40.915] You get a… [00:37:40.915 – 00:37:49.635] It's really in primary purpose, but I'm always intrigued by, like, clubs and that kind of thing where we, where we have a building. [00:37:49.635 – 00:37:52.975] And they'll usually have about thirty-five meetings a week. [00:37:52.975 – 00:37:56.195] And what do you think the primary purpose is?

[00:37:56.195 – 00:37:59.795] Somebody said it. [00:37:59.795 – 00:38:01.195] To pay the rent. [00:38:01.195 – 00:38:02.895] God, yeah, you gotta do it. [00:38:02.895 – 00:38:05.255] And it takes a lot of collections to pay the rent. [00:38:05.255 – 00:38:07.535] So it's, um… [00:38:07.535 – 00:38:11.295] They'll tend to be problem-focused. [00:38:11.295 – 00:38:13.295] Yeah, very often. [00:38:13.295 – 00:38:16.935] I tell you what, it's, you know, you may react to it differently, but I guarantee you I don't. [00:38:16.935 – 00:38:25.295] My greatest dismay, I think, when I walk into a meeting and somebody opens it with, "Who's got a problem?" And, oh, God. [00:38:25.295 – 00:38:27.305] I mean, my heart just dro-

[00:38:27.873 – 00:38:29.533] I, I never leave. [00:38:29.533 – 00:38:32.393] I'm, I'm gonna work inside the tent. [00:38:32.393 – 00:38:34.673] I'm not gonna leave and throw rocks. [00:38:34.673 – 00:38:37.093] I'll work inside the tent and then throw rocks. [00:38:37.093 – 00:38:40.153] But I'm gonna be in the tent though. [00:38:40.153 – 00:38:42.333] And, uh, so I don't leave. [00:38:42.333 – 00:38:42.453] I… [00:38:42.453 – 00:38:48.373] What I do, and I, I tell you this, it, it's just no extra charge for this, but I, I'll just tell you this anyway. [00:38:48.373 – 00:38:58.693] If, um, what I do when I get in one of those things, and, you know, if somebody's been bring up a problem, means you got 25 amateur

[00:38:58.693 – 00:39:00.013] psychiatrists gonna fix it. [00:39:00.013 – 00:39:04.623] And, and so you watch this thing go, and, well, and then one to another. [00:39:04.623 – 00:39:14.653] When it gets to me, if it gets to me, I act like I am deaf, dumb, and blind, and I [00:39:14.653 – 00:39:19.013] absolutely pay no attention to whatever the conversation has been. [00:39:19.013 – 00:39:23.333] I start talking about something to do with the solution. [00:39:23.333 – 00:39:29.253] I don't chastise people for getting off track and all this kind of stuff. [00:39:29.253 – 00:39:32.313] I, I, I, I do what…

[00:39:32.313 – 00:39:35.573] The way I, I, I kind of distilled it down to a clear thought. [00:39:35.573 – 00:39:45.713] When I go into an AA meeting, and it's what I'm talking about, if I don't hear what I want to hear, then I'm gonna say what I want to hear. [00:39:45.713 – 00:39:48.133] That way I'm sure to hear it. [00:39:48.133 – 00:39:58.193] And, uh, if I don't see what I want to see, like that meeting in Washington, I would have loved it if somebody had come over and said, "You must be new

[00:39:58.193 – 00:39:58.653] in town. [00:39:58.653 – 00:39:59.093] Let me just… [00:39:59.093 – 00:40:02.933] We're glad to have you visit our group." That's a normal thing to do in a group. [00:40:02.933 – 00:40:06.473] It's not in a meeting where everybody's a stranger. [00:40:06.473 – 00:40:07.503] You know? [00:40:07.503 – 00:40:09.573] So nobody's a welcomer and that kind of thing. [00:40:09.573 – 00:40:15.833] So if I don't see what I'd like to see, what'd I tell you I did in that meeting? [00:40:15.833 – 00:40:21.913] I walked over there and rudely interrupted the guy that was intensely talking to somebody, grabbed his hand. [00:40:21.913 – 00:40:23.873] Big, old, ugly, biker-looking boy.

[00:40:23.873 – 00:40:28.133] And I, I say that, I'm a biker, too, but, uh, uh, well. [00:40:28.133 – 00:40:29.273] I am. [00:40:29.273 – 00:40:31.613] At least I ride a motorcycle. [00:40:31.613 – 00:40:32.333] I'll put it that way. [00:40:32.333 – 00:40:35.373] Uh, he a big old boy. [00:40:35.373 – 00:40:37.122] I didn't see how big he was until he stood up. [00:40:37.122 – 00:40:43.313] And I thought, "Geez, I might not have been quite so abrupt." But I just grabbed his hand, you know. [00:40:43.313 – 00:40:48.493] Well, that's what I want to see in Alcoholics Anonymous, and if I don't see it, I'm gonna do it.

[00:40:48.493 – 00:40:50.353] See what I mean? [00:40:50.353 – 00:40:52.893] I'm not gonna be a victim in my fellowship. [00:40:52.893 – 00:40:58.913] And when I, when I set myself up opposite of that, I become a victim in my own fellowship. [00:40:58.913 – 00:41:08.473] And so when I do that in a meeting and it's, we're going around talking about whatever the deal is, gets to me, I just start talking. [00:41:08.473 – 00:41:18.573] I have never yet seen it fail that the whole direction of the meeting changes immediately, because I'm not the only

[00:41:18.573 – 00:41:19.973] frustrated dude in there. [00:41:19.973 – 00:41:23.913] Yeah, and, and that's, it's, you c- call it what you want to. [00:41:23.913 – 00:41:25.673] I call it it's hear, saying what you want to hear. [00:41:25.673 – 00:41:28.533] It's also called leadership, is what that's called. [00:41:28.533 – 00:41:29.733] It's leadership. [00:41:29.733 – 00:41:31.473] It's stepping up to the plate. [00:41:31.473 – 00:41:32.873] Somebody needs to do something. [00:41:32.873 – 00:41:33.573] I'm somebody. [00:41:33.573 – 00:41:36.053] And so nothing offensive about that. [00:41:36.053 – 00:41:39.853] It's not chastising somebody for being off subject. [00:41:39.853 – 00:41:43.293] Uh, the, uh… [00:41:43.293 – 00:41:48.863] I'm gonna have to really scramble on this thing. [00:41:48.863 – 00:41:52.903] The, uh, One Legacy that it, it…

[00:41:52.903 – 00:41:57.413] Unfortunately, this is true of so many of our g- our groups, even good ones, kind of like we were talking about. [00:41:57.413 – 00:42:00.813] Uh, rarely do you hear somebody explain the seventh tradition. [00:42:00.813 – 00:42:06.333] It, it's just we assume people know, and that's just not true. [00:42:06.333 – 00:42:08.733] You know, and I tell you how it's reflected. [00:42:08.733 – 00:42:17.433] The last time I looked at any number, 47% of the groups in the United States contribute to our own fellowship, 47%. [00:42:17.433 – 00:42:21.033] That means 53% of us take a free ride.

[00:42:21.033 – 00:42:25.453] So we expect all our services to be in place, and somebody will take care of them. [00:42:25.453 – 00:42:27.053] Well, somebody does. [00:42:27.053 – 00:42:28.913] We take care of them. [00:42:28.913 – 00:42:34.113] It's a whole different subject, but we take care of them by violating our own traditions. [00:42:34.113 – 00:42:41.213] We have never been self-supporting in the history of our fellowship, and if it weren't for literature, we'd sink. [00:42:41.213 – 00:42:44.293] We don't support the thing. [00:42:44.293 – 00:42:47.372] And, and some of that is not because we're a mean-spirited people. [00:42:47.372 – 00:42:51.613] We just don't know because we don't take the time to talk about those things.

[00:42:51.613 – 00:42:55.713] So, so we'll tend to talk about One Legacy, and that's recovery only. [00:42:55.713 – 00:43:04.093] Better than 95% of the meetings in this country, we were talking about it last night, are about recovery, about me and how I'm doing, you know, what my recovery's about. [00:43:04.093 – 00:43:12.133] And rarely do we get into unity, where we're talking about traditions and service, where we're talking about how to really light up our lives with doing, doing active work. [00:43:12.133 – 00:43:18.033] There'll be a limited sense of belonging that you tend not to feel a part of that.

[00:43:18.033 – 00:43:23.033] And, uh, d- d- I already talked about the contribution today. [00:43:23.033 – 00:43:33.013] Well, if you wanted to talk about the other end of that, you know, where, where you look at a well-structured group, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna sort of say this in, in a, in a swoop. [00:43:33.013 – 00:43:35.493] You'll see the polar opposite of that. [00:43:35.493 – 00:43:41.773] You, a, a well-structured group is gonna have a, a, an organizational design to it. [00:43:41.773 – 00:43:50.233] I'll, uh, since I don't think I'm gonna give myself time to talk about it, I'll, I'll just sh- show you this, and anybody's welcome to take a look.

[00:43:50.233 – 00:43:58.553] This, if you're an old reader of the service manual, uh, you'll recognize that. [00:43:58.553 – 00:44:02.353] But that's not the design from the service manual. [00:44:02.353 – 00:44:03.953] That's the design of my home group. [00:44:03.953 – 00:44:11.243] And what that is, is, is that when we set this group up, we decided we, we… [00:44:11.243 – 00:44:15.393] what we started to form the group for was that we wanted to be an action group. [00:44:15.393 – 00:44:17.733] That's why we call it the primary purpose group. [00:44:17.733 – 00:44:19.273] That's not the name of our group.

[00:44:19.273 – 00:44:24.273] That's our job description, and which just happens to be our name, but that's our function. [00:44:24.273 – 00:44:30.553] And so what you see represented, and in fact, I'll just pass these around, and, and you, you can have something to do while I'm talking. [00:44:30.553 – 00:44:36.257] And look that over and if, if anybody wants a copy of that, feel free to do it. [00:44:36.257 – 00:44:42.157] But you'll find that in one of the, uh, old service manuals that, uh, that lays out. [00:44:42.157 – 00:44:48.437] And so what we did was we did that, and, and so you'll find that kind of differences.

[00:44:48.437 – 00:44:58.157] Now, this is a bit extreme, but when I say that we are s- we are structured and we're an organized kind of a group, we plan our meetings three months ahead. [00:44:58.157 – 00:45:05.617] I can tell you right now who's gonna speak, be speaking in my group in September, on what night. [00:45:05.617 – 00:45:08.397] Yeah, so what we do, we plan that ahead. [00:45:08.397 – 00:45:12.077] We, we, we plan our meetings so that we get a diverse group of speakers. [00:45:12.077 – 00:45:13.757] We don't just get willing bodies.

[00:45:13.757 – 00:45:18.257] We want, we want our speakers to look like our group and like our community. [00:45:18.257 – 00:45:25.837] We want Black, white, brown, whatever else there is, gay, straight, young, old. [00:45:25.837 – 00:45:28.257] You, you know, that's what we're looking for. [00:45:28.257 – 00:45:32.017] We, we want peop- And so we plan accordingly so that we get that. [00:45:32.017 – 00:45:36.456] And, uh, we, we, we plan our topics. [00:45:36.456 – 00:45:38.817] You know, we, we, we do a, we do a whole bunch of stuff. [00:45:38.817 – 00:45:48.037] But in a structured group, you're gonna have a lot better chance of getting at the different legacies i- in Alcoholics Anonymous and not just a one-dimensional kind of a thing.

[00:45:48.037 – 00:45:51.637] Uh, let me… [00:45:51.637 – 00:45:53.917] I think I want to spend the, the balance of the time… [00:45:53.917 – 00:45:56.057] I, I've only got about another hour worth of material. [00:45:56.057 – 00:46:06.097] So I've, I've go- think I'm gonna spend the, the balance of the time on maybe just kind [00:46:06.097 – 00:46:11.137] of underlining a little bit about, so what's important about all this. [00:46:11.137 – 00:46:16.097] You know, is this just a bunch of, of, of service, of just conversation? [00:46:16.097 – 00:46:21.757] What's, what's the real message of, of what this is all about that I'm trying to get out here today?

[00:46:21.757 – 00:46:29.417] Um, well, let me one more time just kind of use an example. [00:46:29.417 – 00:46:32.017] I, I like examples because they're illustrative. [00:46:32.017 – 00:46:33.117] That's, that's how we tell… [00:46:33.117 – 00:46:34.557] That's, that's how we talk in AA. [00:46:34.557 – 00:46:36.617] Our life is the example. [00:46:36.617 – 00:46:37.677] Hey, that's, that's what we do. [00:46:37.677 – 00:46:39.997] We don't preach or teach or lecture, that kind of stuff. [00:46:39.997 – 00:46:42.577] So, so what's the problem? [00:46:42.577 – 00:46:45.597] Let me tell you what, what that looks like in real life. [00:46:45.597 – 00:46:50.617] Some, sometime back, I was in a… [00:46:50.617 – 00:46:52.486] In fact, in fact, I was still employed.

[00:46:52.486 – 00:46:53.597] I was working for a living. [00:46:53.597 – 00:47:00.437] And, uh, I was in a town doing a little professional community meeting. [00:47:00.437 – 00:47:07.537] You know, and I was, I was in the corrections business, so I was doing something about, uh, cor- corrections and community relationship, whatever. [00:47:07.537 – 00:47:14.617] And when I finished, I was on next to the last presentation. [00:47:14.617 – 00:47:19.757] They had a panel after me that was, uh… [00:47:19.757 – 00:47:21.167] It, it caught my attention. [00:47:21.167 – 00:47:27.477] I would've stayed anyway just as a courtesy, but I, I was, I was interested because it was, it was, it was on a mental health thing, and they were gonna…

[00:47:27.477 – 00:47:30.057] And alcohol and drugs, so I knew I was gonna stay for that. [00:47:30.057 – 00:47:32.617] So I stayed and listened. [00:47:32.617 – 00:47:42.777] The last speaker was a psychiatrist, and I swear to God, that was the most tired-looking, discouraged [00:47:42.777 – 00:47:43.997] man I had ever seen. [00:47:43.997 – 00:47:46.337] I mean, God know, he just sagged at the podium. [00:47:46.337 – 00:47:54.117] And I thought, "Man, that guy had been whooped by life a lot." And he, I mean, he really was just a, just a dead-looking man. [00:47:54.117 – 00:48:04.157] And, and so he started, uh, talking, not with any real drive or anything, but he started talking, and he was telling about his business and stuff he worried about.

[00:48:04.783 – 00:48:13.463] He said, "My biggest problem are alcoholics with another diagnosis." Uh, I don't need to explain that here. [00:48:13.463 – 00:48:15.423] I mean, I, I think everybody here knows what that mean. [00:48:15.423 – 00:48:17.483] That doesn't mean alcoholic and ugly. [00:48:17.483 – 00:48:19.623] It means That's it. [00:48:19.623 – 00:48:22.763] Well, uh, it, it could take that in. [00:48:22.763 – 00:48:28.463] I, I'm just- I've seen some ugly people and, and I c- I can understand why they drink. [00:48:28.463 – 00:48:32.203] They, uh, they, uh… [00:48:32.203 – 00:48:37.543] Well, I, I give you a thousand examples that include me.

[00:48:37.543 – 00:48:40.563] For a while, I thought my alcoholism was 'cause I had such big ears. [00:48:40.563 – 00:48:40.683] I… [00:48:40.683 – 00:48:44.043] My ears have been this big since I was five years old. [00:48:44.043 – 00:48:48.283] I've been I look like a donkey g-going. [00:48:48.283 – 00:48:52.973] But anyway, you know, I, I think there is a connection between ugly and alcoholic. [00:48:52.973 – 00:48:57.313] But the, um, this guy was just sort of worn down. [00:48:57.313 – 00:49:07.423] He said that, "My biggest concern, alcoholics and, and alcoholics with other diagnoses." And he said, "I know logically that AA is

[00:49:07.423 – 00:49:08.443] the place to send them. [00:49:08.443 – 00:49:17.023] But when I send them to AA, they seem to come back worse." And, and I thought, "Jesus," you know. [00:49:17.023 – 00:49:26.903] And he said, "I really and truly need some help with this." Now, I, I knew a lot of that crowd in there, and there were some people from AA in that crowd. [00:49:26.903 – 00:49:28.303] Now, I'm a visitor. [00:49:28.303 – 00:49:30.223] You know, I'm from two hundred miles away. [00:49:30.223 – 00:49:32.263] I didn't want to say… [00:49:32.263 – 00:49:36.653] I just got through presenting, and I didn't want to say anything.

[00:49:36.653 – 00:49:39.483] But this guy is pleading for help. [00:49:39.483 – 00:49:46.243] He's a caretaker who's trying to take care of us in straitjackets. [00:49:46.243 – 00:49:48.743] So I waited. [00:49:48.743 – 00:49:54.303] Nobody said anything, so I stuck my hand up and I said, "I didn't mention this before. [00:49:54.303 – 00:50:04.303] I had no reason to, but, but, but I'm a longtime member of AA, and I f- I think I understand what you're talking about." And, and I told him what, what I tell [00:50:04.303 – 00:50:12.302] you, uh, you know, tell anybody, that everything that flies the AA flag is not the same thing.

[00:50:12.302 – 00:50:13.802] Unfortunately. [00:50:13.802 – 00:50:17.883] You do have a continuum of things that barely look like… [00:50:17.883 – 00:50:20.283] You got things look like the Jerry Springer Show. [00:50:20.283 – 00:50:30.283] The, uh, uh, but there are things that are just– I mean, who the hell would want to send somebody with borderline a hold on, on, on, on mental health into something like [00:50:30.283 – 00:50:30.383] that? [00:50:30.383 – 00:50:40.403] And so I said, "You got to recognize everything that flies the flag is not the same thing." I said, "In all honesty, there are meetings that I don't

[00:50:40.403 – 00:50:50.413] go to because when I come out, I'm worse." So I know good and well some guy that's borderline paranoid is not gonna do well in some sort of a confrontational [00:50:50.413 – 00:50:51.523] debate society. [00:50:51.523 – 00:51:01.323] And so I told him that, "I, I know you, you're concerned." I said, "What I would recommend to you is get to know two or three members that you trust. [00:51:01.323 – 00:51:02.863] That you trust. [00:51:02.863 – 00:51:13.023] Then when you've got somebody, call them and get their guidance about how to deal with the patient." Now, to me, that's just horse sense.

[00:51:13.023 – 00:51:16.203] May not be to you, but it's horse sense to me. [00:51:16.203 – 00:51:22.163] Because this guy doesn't need to go out and study quality control stuff in AA to find out where to send. [00:51:22.163 – 00:51:23.443] That's not his business. [00:51:23.443 – 00:51:31.043] He's in the shrink business, and, and our business is how to, to get people and incorporate them into this in an environment. [00:51:31.043 – 00:51:41.173] Most– If I said that to you right now, I've got a guy here that's a real, uh, borderline kind of, kind of paranoid, shaky case, I guarantee you, most of you in this room could tell

[00:51:41.173 – 00:51:42.643] me where to s- where to, where to take him. [00:51:42.643 – 00:51:44.223] Most of you could do that. [00:51:44.223 – 00:51:46.543] And so that's, that's all I was talking about to him. [00:51:46.543 – 00:51:49.223] And so, so what's the bad news? [00:51:49.223 – 00:51:57.203] You know, the bad news is that he couldn't just make a general referral to Alcoholics Anonymous without high risk. [00:51:57.203 – 00:52:06.163] I wish it weren't true, but I am reluctant to tell somebody to just call the eight hundred number. [00:52:06.163 – 00:52:08.483] I wish that weren't true. [00:52:08.483 – 00:52:09.963] But it is.

[00:52:09.963 – 00:52:14.303] When I've got somebody traveling, I usually make it my business. [00:52:14.303 – 00:52:16.023] I know folk around this country. [00:52:16.023 – 00:52:26.203] And when I've got somebody traveling, you can bet I don't encourage them, "Well, just pick up the phone and call somebody." I encourage them to make contact with somebody I name. [00:52:26.203 – 00:52:31.503] Now, most people don't have that luxury of, of having, you know, a wide acquaintance in the program. [00:52:31.503 – 00:52:41.103] But it's important, and it's why what I'm talking about is not just a global concern of the state of our fellowship.

[00:52:41.103 – 00:52:47.663] It's because of the impact on the next man, woman, boy, or girl who comes into this fellowship. [00:52:47.663 – 00:52:57.683] I think my responsibility is to be sure that– do everything I can to make sure there's a group where he's gonna have a good shot at this [00:52:57.683 – 00:52:58.743] thing called recovery. [00:52:58.743 – 00:53:03.163] So it matters a great deal to me about those kind of meetings. [00:53:03.163 – 00:53:05.003] That concerned me about that meeting in Washington. [00:53:05.003 – 00:53:06.683] There, there's probably nothing I can do about it. [00:53:06.683 – 00:53:12.643] But if I have occasions, there's anybody out of town, I guarantee you I won't send them to that.

[00:53:12.643 – 00:53:13.883] Uh, there, there's no way. [00:53:13.883 – 00:53:14.943] I can at least do that. [00:53:14.943 – 00:53:18.463] So there are big concerns about that kind of thing. [00:53:18.463 – 00:53:27.023] Let, let me, uh, let, let me, uh, kind of, kind of visit into the neighborhood a little bit on, um… [00:53:27.023 – 00:53:31.513] Just one second. [00:53:31.513 – 00:53:33.343] Let me just see which ones I want to pull out here. [00:53:33.343 – 00:53:39.783] Yeah. [00:53:39.783 – 00:53:40.423] Th-th-th-one other thing. [00:53:40.423 – 00:53:44.083] I'll just, I'll just throw this in here, and then I want to shift over to, to primary purpose a little bit.

[00:53:44.083 – 00:53:50.363] The, um, the la– I mentioned one number. [00:53:50.363 – 00:53:53.843] What does this mean for us, you know? [00:53:53.843 – 00:53:56.003] Why, why is it that I'm concerned about this thing? [00:53:56.003 – 00:53:57.123] One other thing I'll tell you. [00:53:57.123 – 00:54:07.275] The last time I heard a definitive report from the national level, NAA- [00:54:07.275 – 00:54:10.775] Every number that we have is down. [00:54:10.775 – 00:54:13.215] None are up. [00:54:13.215 – 00:54:23.495] Every number that we count, membership, groups, contributions, institutional work, service work, [00:54:23.495 – 00:54:27.915] attendance at service functions, every number that we count is down. [00:54:27.915 – 00:54:30.835] Maybe that's a trend, eh?

[00:54:30.835 – 00:54:34.435] Maybe that's just a seasonal thing, but I don't think so. [00:54:34.435 – 00:54:44.495] I think what that reflects is exactly what we're talking about here in the quality of what we do as a fellowship, the [00:54:44.495 – 00:54:50.175] quality of the groups that we have, so that they can do a good job of being a responsible… [00:54:50.175 – 00:54:55.615] I tell you the other thing that, that, th-the, the last thing on that and then I'll sh- I'll shift to primary purpose. [00:54:55.615 – 00:55:00.915] There's a notion, uh…

[00:55:00.915 – 00:55:02.475] Is there a triangle anywhere? [00:55:02.475 – 00:55:05.785] Uh, well, you know the triangle we use. [00:55:05.785 – 00:55:07.635] They're, they're all over the place in the back back there. [00:55:07.635 – 00:55:09.335] Oh, they're right here on my notepad. [00:55:09.335 – 00:55:19.415] That there's a, uh, you know, very much the, the, the, the belief system in Alcoholics Anonymous is that [00:55:19.415 – 00:55:27.515] we are a grassroots-driven fellowship, meaning that there's no authority in, in, in New York. [00:55:27.515 – 00:55:37.535] That what we have in New York is a service center that we– where we employ staff to, to, to, to re– to, to pull together

[00:55:37.535 – 00:55:39.115] information and share it with other groups. [00:55:39.115 – 00:55:42.035] There's no decision-making, no, no, none of that kind of stuff. [00:55:42.035 – 00:55:52.035] Well, when you look at this business of grassroots-driven, I don't [00:55:52.035 – 00:55:52.855] know about Oregon. [00:55:52.855 – 00:55:54.105] Uh, th-this… [00:55:54.105 – 00:55:55.455] I'd like to know about it. [00:55:55.455 – 00:55:56.485] There are some of you that are involved. [00:55:56.485 – 00:56:01.345] Sure, I'd like to know about it. [00:56:01.345 – 00:56:11.555] In my state, when we look at representation where the grassroots group conscience is factored [00:56:11.555 – 00:56:15.275] into decision-making in a, a vital thing, eh? [00:56:15.275 – 00:56:21.775] You can't have a grassroots-driven fellowship with no grassroots participation.

[00:56:21.775 – 00:56:24.215] Yeah, that's fundamentally sound, isn't it? [00:56:24.215 – 00:56:30.195] We run about twenty to twenty-five percent representation. [00:56:30.195 – 00:56:38.715] That means seventy-five to eighty percent of our fellowship are not even a factor in decision-making. [00:56:38.715 – 00:56:41.055] May not even know what's going on. [00:56:41.055 – 00:56:48.015] So it makes that whole notion of an inverted triangle a myth at best. [00:56:48.015 – 00:56:52.855] And so what we have is, um, thank God for them. [00:56:52.855 – 00:56:54.575] I've been one of them for many years. [00:56:54.575 – 00:57:02.595] What we have is a, is a handful of people who are willing to pick up the load and, and go try.

[00:57:02.595 – 00:57:09.215] You know, some of us sort of kind of make little disparaging remarks about the political side. [00:57:09.215 – 00:57:10.715] Political my foot. [00:57:10.715 – 00:57:20.795] You know, what it is, is folks trying to, to represent our grassroots in the decision-making that's necessary in our fellowship if our fellowship's going [00:57:20.795 – 00:57:21.275] anywhere. [00:57:21.275 – 00:57:25.495] You know, if we're gonna do anything other than just sort of watch it continue to dwindle. [00:57:25.495 – 00:57:27.175] I don't wanna do that. [00:57:27.175 – 00:57:37.435] I, I wanna do everything that I can as one member to try to make sure that this fellowship does not just fall into disrepair and,

[00:57:37.435 – 00:57:38.975] and, uh, and, and go away. [00:57:38.975 – 00:57:41.065] Pray God- [00:57:41.193 – 00:57:42.073] That doesn't happen. [00:57:42.073 – 00:57:48.673] Th-the, the other, the other thing in that, and I'll just kind of wrap up around this, is this, this singleness of purpose thing. [00:57:48.673 – 00:57:58.693] Singleness of purpose, it, it, it has a w- the one definition that, that I went over in the beginning about that what [00:57:58.693 – 00:57:59.933] is it that our group does? [00:57:59.933 – 00:58:08.733] Well, we deal with alcoholism more effectively, as far as I'm concerned, than anything the world's ever known.

[00:58:08.733 – 00:58:14.933] There's something magical happens when one alcoholic opens up and shares from the heart with another one. [00:58:14.933 – 00:58:16.713] That's vital. [00:58:16.713 – 00:58:26.613] And so it's important for us as a group, in my view, to be sure that we stick to that and not expand it. [00:58:26.613 – 00:58:36.693] But there's also built into that a, a, a thing of, of, um, kind of like that psychiatrist was talking about, [00:58:36.693 – 00:58:38.433] a folk with another diagnosis. [00:58:38.433 – 00:58:44.573] And singleness of purpose also means, like, who is a member of Alcoholics Anonymous?

[00:58:44.573 – 00:58:49.813] Well, it's pretty well laid out in, in what I read h- here earlier. [00:58:49.813 – 00:58:53.553] Let me, let me read it one more time in that context. [00:58:53.553 – 00:59:01.553] "Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism." Now, that's a pretty specific definition. [00:59:01.553 – 00:59:11.573] A lot of times we stop at reading the short form of that tradition, which says, "The only requirement for membership is the desire to stop drinking." I think my retriever has [00:59:11.573 – 00:59:11.793] that. [00:59:11.793 – 00:59:16.073] He won't drink. [00:59:16.073 – 00:59:16.953] You guy…

[00:59:16.953 – 00:59:23.093] So anyway, it, it's a different message when you look at the long form. [00:59:23.093 – 00:59:26.973] "Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. [00:59:26.973 – 00:59:35.833] Hence, we may refuse none who wish to recover." Bear in mind, it is a self-diagnosed condition. [00:59:35.833 – 00:59:42.433] You're the only person on this earth who can d- diagnose your alcoholism. [00:59:42.433 – 00:59:52.693] Others can tell you about it, but you're the only person that can really do what's required to get into solid recovery in AA, and that's accept

[00:59:52.693 – 00:59:54.353] defeat at the core level. [00:59:54.353 – 00:59:56.613] Accept defeat at the core level. [00:59:56.613 – 00:59:59.353] That we're not people who wised up and decided not to drink. [00:59:59.353 – 01:00:02.333] We're folks who got to the point that we just couldn't drink. [01:00:02.333 – 01:00:03.813] We couldn't drink. [01:00:03.813 – 01:00:06.313] We were beaten down with that sucker big time. [01:00:06.313 – 01:00:07.132] Thank God. [01:00:07.132 – 01:00:08.173] Thank God. [01:00:08.173 – 01:00:17.173] And, um, so it, it puts pretty, pretty clear kind of a definition on who our membership is. [01:00:17.173 – 01:00:20.773] It's people who suffer from alcoholism. [01:00:20.773 – 01:00:25.853] N-nor ought AA membership ever depend on money or conformity.

[01:00:25.853 – 01:00:35.993] And, and, and so that, that definition of who can belong, I, I tell you an aspect of that that's very, very important to me [01:00:35.993 – 01:00:41.473] in, in what makes me stand where I stand on singleness of purpose. [01:00:41.473 – 01:00:43.232] If… [01:00:43.232 – 01:00:44.133] I was at prison. [01:00:44.133 – 01:00:46.613] Well, I sponsor a prison in, in, uh, AA group. [01:00:46.613 – 01:00:50.233] And I, I was over there one night, and, uh, we started to have an election. [01:00:50.233 – 01:00:51.633] And a guy… [01:00:51.633 – 01:00:55.373] It was an open meeting, which meant people could attend.

[01:00:55.373 – 01:00:58.513] But we had an election. [01:00:58.513 – 01:01:04.673] The chair had to be replaced, and somebody nominated a real nice guy by the name of Mike, who's a drug addict. [01:01:04.673 – 01:01:06.213] He's not an alcoholic. [01:01:06.213 – 01:01:07.233] He's not… [01:01:07.233 – 01:01:09.693] and he's not alcoholic and addict. [01:01:09.693 – 01:01:11.273] He's a drug addict. [01:01:11.273 – 01:01:14.093] He's a, he's a leader of NA in that facility. [01:01:14.093 – 01:01:15.433] A nice guy. [01:01:15.433 – 01:01:17.033] I like, I like him a lot. [01:01:17.033 – 01:01:23.933] And, uh, Mike, being a nice guy, sort of nodded willingness. [01:01:23.933 – 01:01:25.653] They started a group. [01:01:25.653 – 01:01:28.233] Now, a sponsor is more than a visitor.

[01:01:28.233 – 01:01:30.373] A sponsor is a guide. [01:01:30.373 – 01:01:31.453] And I said, "Whoa, whoa. [01:01:31.453 – 01:01:38.313] Hold on, guys." I said, "You can't elect Mike as the pres- as the, uh, chairman of this thing. [01:01:38.313 – 01:01:42.493] He's a great fella, but he's not an alcoholic. [01:01:42.493 – 01:01:52.933] AA meetings are conducted by A members, not nice guys who are not members." And [01:01:52.933 – 01:01:55.873] so we put the, uh, hiatus on the election. [01:01:55.873 – 01:01:57.753] And, and he said… [01:01:57.753 – 01:02:00.343] And, and there, and there's no hard feelings. [01:02:00.343 – 01:02:02.053] I mean, I wasn't hard on this fella.

[01:02:02.053 – 01:02:05.113] I know it was kind of embarrassing, but we talked afterwards. [01:02:05.113 – 01:02:06.333] And, and I do like him. [01:02:06.333 – 01:02:06.973] I still do. [01:02:06.973 – 01:02:08.133] We're still good friends. [01:02:08.133 – 01:02:11.253] But we elected somebody. [01:02:11.253 – 01:02:16.883] And then after the meeting, we had a little bit of time, and the chair said, "Tom, would you elaborate on this, on this, this thing? [01:02:16.883 – 01:02:20.753] 'Cause a lot of guys are really lost in this business." And you know how it… [01:02:20.753 – 01:02:23.043] Well, I promise you, you'll intuitively know how to handle things.

[01:02:23.043 – 01:02:27.733] Sometimes if you don't think about it, you'll come closer to the essence of a thing. [01:02:27.733 – 01:02:32.573] And so I only had a few minutes, and I said, I said, "Well, I'll tell you what, guys. [01:02:32.573 – 01:02:34.553] If, uh, let me put it this way. [01:02:34.553 – 01:02:39.833] You remember Bill Wilson and, and Bob? [01:02:39.833 – 01:02:45.333] You remember when they met in, in Akron?" We'd gone over history, you know, and they said, "Yeah." Everybody's nodding. [01:02:45.333 – 01:02:55.613] And, uh, I said, "What happened that day was a decrepit stock, stockbroker and, uh,

[01:02:55.613 – 01:03:05.633] a, an alcoholic who had a vision of something met with a doc, and when they got through, the doc said, 'Finally, somebody understands.' The [01:03:05.633 – 01:03:09.593] layman has carried the message of an illness to the doc. [01:03:09.593 – 01:03:19.173] And what happened that day was, I think is the basic tenet of Alcoholics Anonymous, the basic tenet. [01:03:19.173 – 01:03:24.493] It's the axis on which this whole thing turns, is what happened that day. [01:03:24.493 – 01:03:35.543] Because one alcoholic talking to another alcoholic has that unbelievable power to gain trust and confidence almost instantly." And

[01:03:35.543 – 01:03:41.493] I said, uh, uh, "I want you to spend time on it." I said, "You, you, you know what I'm talking about?" "Yeah." Everybody said, "Yeah." I said, "Okay. [01:03:41.493 – 01:03:51.725] If that's true, if that's true- Then each one of us is one more link in that chain that has ensued from that beginning. [01:03:51.725 – 01:04:02.305] And you and I have an absolute responsibility to assure that the next alcoholic who comes into these doors finds exactly [01:04:02.305 – 01:04:02.725] that. [01:04:02.725 – 01:04:09.385] I don't have the audacity, the willingness to change this deal.

[01:04:09.385 – 01:04:19.385] My job is to be sure that the next one who comes in gets an opportunity to interact with another alcoholic [01:04:19.385 – 01:04:21.345] with no questions asked. [01:04:21.345 – 01:04:24.065] Think that's emphatically important. [01:04:24.065 – 01:04:28.685] The, um, that's why we have open meetings. [01:04:28.685 – 01:04:31.385] Open meetings are just what they say. [01:04:31.385 – 01:04:33.965] They're open meetings to anybody. [01:04:33.965 – 01:04:39.585] And friends of AA, people who wanna check it out, are perfectly welcome in open meetings. [01:04:39.585 – 01:04:43.545] But open meetings are conducted by alcoholics. [01:04:43.545 – 01:04:46.505] They're conducted by AA members. [01:04:46.505 – 01:04:56.585] We may, from time to time, invite somebody to participate, like we've had an Al-Anon panel in our AA group because it's an, it's

[01:04:56.585 – 01:04:57.735] a family illness, you know? [01:04:57.735 – 01:05:05.765] And so there are ways to operate with integrity, and it doesn't mean we have to be distant or unfriendly. [01:05:05.765 – 01:05:12.325] It's just that we have to be, when we res- when we, when we deal with these kinds of issues, and they're vexing issues. [01:05:12.325 – 01:05:15.285] I'm not talking about something peculiar to North Carolina. [01:05:15.285 – 01:05:19.525] I'm talking about something that's a, that's a problem everywhere I go, everywhere. [01:05:19.525 – 01:05:24.345] There are whole communities that have given up any pretense of singleness of purpose.

[01:05:24.345 – 01:05:28.065] I think that's an awfully dangerous acquiescence. [01:05:28.065 – 01:05:38.085] When we start to try to accommodate and incorporate, we've gotta be careful that we don't compromise those principles that grew out of that, that basic interaction [01:05:38.085 – 01:05:39.245] between Bob and Bill. [01:05:39.245 – 01:05:43.485] I didn't, I… [01:05:43.485 – 01:05:45.045] You were generous. [01:05:45.045 – 01:05:46.285] You gave me two extra minutes. [01:05:46.285 – 01:05:53.085] We'll, we'll, we'll shift into, uh, just conversation if you like. [01:05:53.085 – 01:05:53.825] Yeah. [01:05:53.825 – 01:05:53.985] Yeah. [01:05:53.985 – 01:05:54.654] Carl. [01:05:54.654 – 01:05:56.685] Uh, Tom, uh, thanks for the meeting yesterday. [01:05:56.685 – 01:06:01.465] Um, I came to Alcoholics Anonymous because I wanted to stop drinking.

[01:06:01.465 – 01:06:12.465] Um, what I find is, is I acquire a, good or bad, I, I acquire resentment when people identify themselves in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous [01:06:12.465 – 01:06:16.505] as an alcoholic and an addict, or a drug addict and alcoholic and an addict. [01:06:16.505 – 01:06:20.885] Um, I guess, how do you deal with that? [01:06:20.885 – 01:06:29.525] Or are we- Well- I don't know whether you're supposed to or not or They're important to know. [01:06:29.525 – 01:06:34.625] The, um, let, it's, it's not a simple thing. [01:06:34.625 – 01:06:40.285] I think the worst possible way to do it is by publicly embarrassing somebody.

[01:06:40.285 – 01:06:45.005] Unfortunately, a lot of times we try to resolve this at the door. [01:06:45.005 – 01:06:50.985] We try to resolve it by, by inter- by, by reacting to the people who come into a meeting. [01:06:50.985 – 01:06:56.615] Two, two, I'll tell you two ways, one a little more lengthy than the other one. [01:06:56.615 – 01:07:06.765] One, I think anybody who walks in our door deserves to have a warm welcome and guidance to where [01:07:06.765 – 01:07:09.205] they need to be if they don't need to be in AA. [01:07:09.205 – 01:07:11.585] I think they need that from us.

[01:07:11.585 – 01:07:15.305] I always like to remember we're the last stop on the bus line. [01:07:15.305 – 01:07:17.895] I don't want this to be the point of just cold rejection. [01:07:18.864 – 01:07:23.084] So I want to give somebody a warm welcome and then loving guidance to where they need to go. [01:07:23.084 – 01:07:23.924] That's, that's one. [01:07:23.924 – 01:07:26.523] Never publicly. [01:07:26.523 – 01:07:33.664] Uh, anytime you, you publicly, uh, deal with somebody, you, you, you, you're gonna have embarrassment. [01:07:33.664 – 01:07:35.504] You're gonna have some reaction to that kind of thing. [01:07:35.504 – 01:07:37.094] So that's the worst way to do it.

[01:07:37.094 – 01:07:38.464] So privately, I think, is the way. [01:07:38.464 – 01:07:48.744] The other way that's the more thoughtful way, I'll, I'll just tell you a little story that this day and time, it is– [01:07:48.784 – 01:07:54.884] we call it the pure alcoholic, which is, uh, has always seemed like a strange term of a pure alcoholic. [01:07:54.884 – 01:07:55.114] Got… [01:07:55.114 – 01:08:05.184] But this day and time, it is a rare person who comes in who hasn't had complications with other things other than alcohol. [01:08:05.184 – 01:08:13.244] I mean, I'm one of the old type, but my God, I took everything I knew about except heroin, and I'd, I, I sold that.

[01:08:13.244 – 01:08:14.303] I, I didn't take it. [01:08:14.303 – 01:08:15.264] I sold it. [01:08:15.264 – 01:08:18.204] But it just looked so dull and boring. [01:08:18.204 – 01:08:19.124] I, I just wasn't… [01:08:19.124 – 01:08:24.704] The, uh– Anyway, the, uh, the, the… [01:08:24.704 – 01:08:27.064] And so it's, it's here. [01:08:27.064 – 01:08:27.724] You know, it's here. [01:08:27.724 – 01:08:38.104] Most people who come in, if they come out of treatment, they tend to be utterly confused about, you know, what label fits because, you know, it's, I mean, it's a whole different ballgame, [01:08:38.104 – 01:08:41.584] but in treatment, multi-labeling is not uncommon at all. [01:08:41.584 – 01:08:46.344] And so a lot of people come out, and they got a whole bunch of stuff that sort of, sort of makes sense to them.

[01:08:46.344 – 01:08:50.844] And I think most of us could claim a lot of different labels, you know, that, that… [01:08:50.844 – 01:08:53.184] So it's here. [01:08:53.184 – 01:08:53.754] How do you do it? [01:08:53.754 – 01:08:56.304] I, I, I'll give you a couple examples of, of, of this. [01:08:56.304 – 01:09:03.224] And one thing that I'm fundamentally sold on is, uh, I, I was in a group, the last group before the one I'm in now. [01:09:03.224 – 01:09:09.044] A guy came to me one night and said, "Tom, we need a group inventory." Uh, well, that's a strange request, you know.

[01:09:09.044 – 01:09:19.094] I, I said, "Why?" He said, "Well, we're getting too many addicts in here." And, uh, and I swear to God, I mean, I'm, I'm not totally naive, but I hadn't really [01:09:19.094 – 01:09:20.544] noticed what he was talking about. [01:09:20.544 – 01:09:29.044] And I said, "Well, let me take a look, see if I see the same thing." Well, what it was that, that somebody was loading up a bunch of kids from an adolescent, uh, capturing place. [01:09:29.044 – 01:09:34.524] And, uh, so, so, so, so they were bringing these kids over there.

[01:09:34.524 – 01:09:38.334] And, and by God, those kids didn't know if they were alcoholics or nanny goats. [01:09:38.334 – 01:09:38.624] You know? [01:09:38.624 – 01:09:40.044] They had no clue. [01:09:40.044 – 01:09:43.744] And they were just dopey kids, you know, just like I was. [01:09:43.744 – 01:09:47.184] And, um, so I, I saw what it was. [01:09:47.184 – 01:09:51.084] And true to form, our wounds were self-inflicted. [01:09:51.084 – 01:09:59.264] What we were doing unthinkingly, some of our folk were trying to make the kids feel welcome by asking them to get up and participate in a meeting. [01:09:59.264 – 01:10:07.984] So you had people who identified themselves as addicts performing the functions in AA, but it was by our s-invitation.

[01:10:07.984 – 01:10:09.764] So they were self-inflicted. [01:10:09.764 – 01:10:12.464] So I saw what he was talking about. [01:10:12.464 – 01:10:14.004] So we had a little steering committee meeting. [01:10:14.004 – 01:10:21.233] I, I said, "All right." And we, we, we went over it, and, um, we agreed it was a, it was a problem that needed to be dealt with. [01:10:21.233 – 01:10:22.944] We decided to do two things. [01:10:22.944 – 01:10:27.324] One, said somebody ought to go talk with the director of the house. [01:10:27.324 – 01:10:28.344] They asked me to do that. [01:10:28.344 – 01:10:35.844] I said, "Okay, fine." Went over to see the, uh, the, a nice young lady, young social work l-lady, and really nice person.

[01:10:35.844 – 01:10:39.264] And, uh, so I, I told her what the situation was. [01:10:39.264 – 01:10:41.584] She was so appreciative that I came. [01:10:41.584 – 01:10:43.324] She'd never heard of a closed meeting. [01:10:43.324 – 01:10:46.144] They don't teach that in social work school. [01:10:46.144 – 01:10:49.964] If we want people to know that, we have to tell them. [01:10:49.964 – 01:10:52.444] You know, there, nobody else is gonna put that business out. [01:10:52.444 – 01:10:55.384] So she was as ignorant as could possibly be. [01:10:55.384 – 01:10:58.004] She said, "I never heard of, of that. [01:10:58.004 – 01:11:00.304] I ne-had no clue about it." And she said, "It's no problem.

[01:11:00.304 – 01:11:08.124] We'll take care of that." Well, that wasn't enough because that's not the only portal of entry, and, and she couldn't secure it either. [01:11:08.124 – 01:11:12.924] So we, we, uh, chatted a bit and, and she says what she would do. [01:11:12.924 – 01:11:18.604] We started a newcomer program, a newcomer program in our group. [01:11:18.604 – 01:11:20.804] You'll see it on that circle of stuff in there. [01:11:20.804 – 01:11:25.984] It's been a feature in every group I've been a part of for the last twenty-five years. [01:11:25.984 – 01:11:32.924] I would not want a group without it because it does a magnificent job of dealing with what we're talking about.

[01:11:32.924 – 01:11:36.764] Our newcomer meeting is an open meeting. [01:11:36.764 – 01:11:39.664] It's intended to be an open meeting. [01:11:39.664 – 01:11:44.644] What– Its primary purpose is to give people a solid introduction to AA. [01:11:44.644 – 01:11:50.224] And so we encourage people under a year to go to that newcomer meeting. [01:11:50.224 – 01:11:51.884] It, it's not mandatory, you know. [01:11:51.884 – 01:11:52.764] Nothing is. [01:11:52.764 – 01:11:55.984] But we encourage folk to go, so they can get newcomer talk. [01:11:55.984 – 01:12:03.244] The other thing is that it's a marvelous place to sort out whether you're sheep or goat. [01:12:03.244 – 01:12:13.444] You know, it's a marvelous place in a non-threatening environment to lay this out and say, "I don't know," you know, with people who will deal with that accordingly.

[01:12:13.444 – 01:12:16.284] And it's a great, great resource. [01:12:16.284 – 01:12:17.284] Great resource. [01:12:17.284 – 01:12:27.304] And 'cause otherwise, if you try to work it out in a big group, you'll find it a huge challenge to do, and you'll wind up with control [01:12:27.304 – 01:12:29.024] tactics and all this kind of stuff. [01:12:29.024 – 01:12:33.224] And, and it, and it really leads to a lot of just unnecessary difficulty. [01:12:33.224 – 01:12:35.944] We've been doing it for twenty-five years. [01:12:35.944 – 01:12:46.784] I only know of two incidents where it's even been disagreeable, where there was, you know, kind of, kind of clashing

[01:12:46.784 – 01:12:47.704] conversation. [01:12:47.704 – 01:12:56.294] Only two times, both of them im– uh, done by one of our members who just simply has difficulty talking with people without being condescending or something. [01:12:56.294 – 01:13:06.644] So the, the, the short of that is, number one is my be- my belief is to treat that person with some courtesy and consideration, you [01:13:06.644 – 01:13:08.504] know, when you go try to deal with it group level. [01:13:08.504 – 01:13:14.684] And the other is, if you're really concerned and you get a little, little track of that, take a look at something like that newcomer program.

[01:13:14.684 – 01:13:18.933] It's a great resource, one of the strongest things in our group, in, in… [01:13:18.933 – 01:13:21.164] So I– those are ways that I believe in dealing with it. [01:13:21.164 – 01:13:25.916] The least favorite way for me is this thing of publicly dealing with it. [01:13:25.916 – 01:13:26.896] That's, that's a loser. [01:13:26.896 – 01:13:27.896] That, I think. [01:13:27.896 – 01:13:28.156] Yeah. [01:13:28.156 – 01:13:29.836] Yeah, thanks, Carl. [01:13:29.836 – 01:13:30.686] Yeah, appreciate it. [01:13:30.686 – 01:13:30.956] Mm-hmm. [01:13:30.956 – 01:13:31.726] Yes. [01:13:31.726 – 01:13:35.935] Uh, when speaking in treatment centers, um, how, how deep do you go into service and purpose? [01:13:35.935 – 01:13:36.916] Say it again, Da-Dave. [01:13:36.916 – 01:13:42.976] When speaking in treatment centers to the, to the patients, how deep do we go into service and purpose?

[01:13:42.976 – 01:13:47.906] Do we just kinda give them a little bit of it or really go into it and teach them about it? [01:13:47.906 – 01:13:51.866] Uh, should we tell them about how God starts healing the meetings and using our meetings? [01:13:51.866 – 01:13:52.446] Just curious. [01:13:52.446 – 01:13:58.636] Well, u-usually, uh, I mean, there's no real pat answer to that kind of thing. [01:13:58.636 – 01:13:58.876] It's… [01:13:58.876 – 01:14:05.296] What we're trying to do in AA, in, in the treatment center is introduce folks to Alcoholics Anonymous and tell them what it is. [01:14:05.296 – 01:14:07.276] We also tell them what it ain't, you know.

[01:14:07.276 – 01:14:10.476] So some of the ways we're doing it by what AA is and what AA is not. [01:14:10.476 – 01:14:12.476] You know, just the standard kind of stuff that we do. [01:14:12.476 – 01:14:17.636] It's, um, it's an issue with folk like that because they've got it sorted out. [01:14:17.636 – 01:14:26.355] We have tried to get, uh, the treatment center we work, we've tried to get them to work with us on narrowing down that label a bit. [01:14:26.355 – 01:14:33.136] I mean, I understand what it is to label for insurance purposes, but for, for recovery purposes, you gotta sort that out somewhere.

[01:14:33.136 – 01:14:35.276] We've not had much luck with that. [01:14:35.276 – 01:14:45.496] So we just try to be straight with what we're doing, of what AA is, what it's not, and, um, try not to get into clamorous [01:14:45.496 – 01:14:55.496] conversation about that, but just clearly say, "Here's what we do, and here's what we don't do." We also make it a point to have good friends in Narcotics Anonymous [01:14:55.496 – 01:14:58.356] because Narcotics Anonymous can be little d-difficult to find. [01:14:58.356 – 01:15:06.376] So we always make it a point if somebody needs to go to NA, wants to go, to, to not just say call the phone book but have some names of people that they can call.

[01:15:06.376 – 01:15:08.496] So in other ways, we do it, Dave. [01:15:08.496 – 01:15:08.876] Thanks. [01:15:08.876 – 01:15:10.136] Uh, go ahead. [01:15:10.136 – 01:15:15.196] So, um, I, I, I've had a lot of experience with meetings in different cities. [01:15:15.196 – 01:15:20.156] I've lived in, uh, four different major metropolises in my sobriety and things like that, and things vary quite a bit. [01:15:20.156 – 01:15:26.676] But something I found unilateral across the country is there's always those bad meetings, uh, in my opinion, at the low end of the spectrum. [01:15:26.676 – 01:15:37.296] And, and I've had quite a bit experience of trying to change meetings, trying to improve meetings, creating new meetings to replace those meetings, and, and I've had, um, frustrating…

[01:15:37.296 – 01:15:42.476] And, and I've, I've run the spectrum of feelings throughout doing that and never been very successful. [01:15:42.476 – 01:15:49.176] Um, do you have any recommendations for bringing that bar, that low end of the bar up so that the spectrum doesn't go so far? [01:15:49.176 – 01:15:51.936] Unfortunately, the best thing I've found is leave them alone. [01:15:51.936 – 01:15:57.756] 'Cause, 'cause, 'cause the most frustrating thing that I've ever seen is trying to impose your will on an AA group. [01:15:57.756 – 01:16:00.176] That is an exercise in futility. [01:16:00.176 – 01:16:01.276] Now, I've done it.

[01:16:01.276 – 01:16:04.356] God knows I've done it, and to no avail. [01:16:04.356 – 01:16:05.916] Uh, the, uh… [01:16:05.916 – 01:16:09.236] I did it with a group I sponsored, about half the people in the group. [01:16:09.236 – 01:16:11.156] Well, not half but a bunch of them. [01:16:11.156 – 01:16:17.676] And, uh, I couldn't do it because there's a sort– there's a mindset that goes with, uh, with what they're in. [01:16:17.676 – 01:16:20.276] It's a mess, but it's their mess. [01:16:20.276 – 01:16:23.406] They created it, so they're comfortable in it. [01:16:23.406 – 01:16:31.876] And so, uh, what I've had to do personally, I've, like you, I've covered a lot of town, and I, I swear to God I don't believe it's just self-will.

[01:16:31.876 – 01:16:37.556] Now, I'm picky about where I, where I take out my insurance on recovery. [01:16:37.556 – 01:16:38.676] I'm picky about that. [01:16:38.676 – 01:16:42.156] I don't settle for, for just some sloppy stuff. [01:16:42.156 – 01:16:47.076] I've had to start groups for the, the last thirty years. [01:16:47.076 – 01:16:49.176] I've had to start groups. [01:16:49.176 – 01:16:54.616] So there are always some other like-minded people who wanna go deeper and further into the program.