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[00:00:00.420 – 00:00:07.479] I was doing a, a newcomer group, uh, several years back, and, uh, I, I made the announcement. [00:00:07.479 – 00:00:14.220] In that one, we did the, uh, the, the newcomer format that's in the literature, the six, six meeting format. [00:00:14.220 – 00:00:24.279] And, and I had traditions, so I, I said, uh, I said, "I'll be leading the newcomer group, and, uh, we'll be doing traditions up close and personal." And, uh, the, [00:00:24.279 – 00:00:34.640] uh, we started to head to the different rooms, and a young fella came up to me and he said, "Are you really gonna do a meeting on traditions?" I said, "Well, yeah, that's what I planned."

[00:00:34.640 – 00:00:44.839] And he, I said, "Do you know what that is?" And he said, "Yeah, yeah, I've heard them read at meetings." And, uh, the kid just got kicked out of college and, and, uh, so he'd heard [00:00:44.840 – 00:00:47.320] enough to know that it was not a thrill a minute. [00:00:47.320 – 00:00:48.460] You know, he'd picked up that much. [00:00:48.460 – 00:00:54.280] And, and, uh, and he said, "Well, I'm gonna go with you," and so we go down. [00:00:54.280 – 00:00:58.740] Now, I, I'm a real, real fast operator.

[00:00:58.740 – 00:01:01.860] I think maybe we got through four of them that night. [00:01:01.860 – 00:01:04.620] It is hard to get through those things. [00:01:04.620 – 00:01:12.020] And, and when we got through with that meeting, that young fella had somebody in the har- parking lot honking for him. [00:01:12.020 – 00:01:15.200] He wouldn't leave because he was so excited. [00:01:15.200 – 00:01:17.780] And it wasn't anything magical that I did. [00:01:17.780 – 00:01:27.800] But when you get past the kind of language that sounds business-like, what I think the traditions do is open up a real vision

[00:01:27.800 – 00:01:33.980] of what life in recovery for me as an individual member and for us as a fellowship is all about. [00:01:33.980 – 00:01:38.000] So I find, I find traditions to be a, a very exciting thing. [00:01:38.000 – 00:01:48.140] It was the first place where I saw Alcoholics Anonymous as, as more than just a little gathering of drunks, and started to see that it really was a movement [00:01:48.140 – 00:01:52.520] that had ramifications for every alcoholic in this world, potentially. [00:01:52.520 – 00:01:54.539] And so it meant an awful lot to me.

[00:01:54.539 – 00:01:58.240] I just, I want to follow up on a couple things. [00:01:58.240 – 00:02:07.960] Then when we come back from our break, we'll get into some stuff and, and, and we've agreed we're gonna sort of take it from the personal to the broader as we go through that session. [00:02:07.960 – 00:02:10.979] So I want, I want to pick up just a little bit more on the, uh… [00:02:10.979 – 00:02:21.530] And, and, and kind of pull some of what Bob was talking about into the development of the principles that,

[00:02:21.530 – 00:02:26.760] that, you know, when he says Bill wrote the traditions, it's just like writing anything. [00:02:26.760 – 00:02:28.880] You write it based on what you've learned. [00:02:28.880 – 00:02:32.859] You, you write it based on what you've come to believe, what you're convicted of. [00:02:32.859 – 00:02:42.280] And, uh, so when he started to write traditions, he obviously drew on the experience of, of, uh, of those, those, those first however many folk it were. [00:02:42.280 – 00:02:52.340] Uh, I, I swear to God, I, I can, I can identify with that first gaggle, however there were many, uh, better than

[00:02:52.340 – 00:02:54.300] I can us today, really. [00:02:54.300 – 00:02:58.440] Because that sounded like my kind of scene. [00:02:58.440 – 00:03:02.400] Just a bunch of drunks running around in all directions. [00:03:02.400 – 00:03:03.980] No leadership. [00:03:03.980 – 00:03:05.140] Nobody in charge. [00:03:05.140 – 00:03:06.540] Not a clue what they're doing. [00:03:06.540 – 00:03:08.400] Somebody jumping out the window. [00:03:08.400 – 00:03:09.930] Somebody fighting here, and somebody… [00:03:09.930 – 00:03:13.360] I mean, it just sounded like a heck of a good party. [00:03:13.360 – 00:03:18.440] And once in a while, somebody got sober in the middle of that bedlam. [00:03:18.440 – 00:03:21.300] 'Cause it really was just a gaggle of drunks. [00:03:21.300 – 00:03:24.140] It was not Alcoholics Anonymous.

[00:03:24.140 – 00:03:27.400] You know, it didn't become Alcoholics Anonymous till we wrote the book. [00:03:27.400 – 00:03:30.269] And the book named the fellowship. [00:03:30.269 – 00:03:33.700] So it was just a, a gathering of drunks. [00:03:33.700 – 00:03:40.680] And, and so we, we went through that little period of, of being a hanger-on with the Oxford Group, and then, then decided to break away. [00:03:40.680 – 00:03:43.920] So but that was kind of a thrilling pe- period to me. [00:03:43.920 – 00:03:54.040] The other thing that stands out in that history, though, I, I'll just mention, too, was the, the, the events that occurred after that Jack Alexander

[00:03:54.040 – 00:04:02.160] article and a few other things that happened right in there, to me, was the huge news of the de- of the development of AA. [00:04:02.160 – 00:04:11.720] Because just like he was talking about Sybil, and I, I, well, I, I, I like it in some ways, I don't in others. [00:04:11.720 – 00:04:15.320] But, but I've been around long enough to remember personally those days. [00:04:15.320 – 00:04:21.459] And, uh, and, and, and I've had the pleasure of starting Alcoholics Anonymous in a city. [00:04:21.459 – 00:04:28.680] I've had the, the dubious pleasure of going to meetings, and I'm the only dude there, and it's a weird feeling.

[00:04:28.680 – 00:04:33.640] I've been in the position so that any drunk in a city who called called me. [00:04:33.640 – 00:04:36.280] And, and so I understand those things. [00:04:36.280 – 00:04:39.420] I understand what it's like to be a rookie and get out there scared to death. [00:04:39.420 – 00:04:46.960] And I was so young that I usually had, my first challenge with an alcoholic was to convince him that I was alcoholic, not him. [00:04:46.960 – 00:04:52.000] And, uh, so, so I can really relate to those kinds of deals. [00:04:52.000 – 00:05:02.080] And, and what happened when that Jack Alexander article hit, and if you picture this, the membership of Alcoholics Anonymous probably, if you did

[00:05:02.080 – 00:05:05.420] a real hard nose count, would be about equal to what we got here. [00:05:05.420 – 00:05:10.060] Uh, really worthy warriors ready to do something at AA. [00:05:10.060 – 00:05:13.100] We, we probably have got it equal right here. [00:05:13.100 – 00:05:17.560] If you, you just imagine, let your imagination go a, a step or two. [00:05:17.560 – 00:05:23.580] Imagine what would happen if, uh, this visual real- virtual reality. [00:05:23.580 – 00:05:34.040] Now, but just kind of imagine that we discover something sitting here in the middle of Paramount, the, the Paramount group, that's got a solution

[00:05:34.040 – 00:05:35.000] to Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:05:35.000 – 00:05:45.020] And the word goes out all over the world, "Hey, those dudes in Paramount have got something, and they'll help you." And [00:05:45.020 – 00:05:54.100] then within the blink of an eye, 8,000 frantic people are calling and asking for help. [00:05:54.100 – 00:05:56.700] How would we respond, eh? [00:05:56.700 – 00:05:58.540] How would we respond? [00:05:58.540 – 00:06:01.000] But that's exactly the dilemma. [00:06:01.000 – 00:06:08.900] And, and, uh, and I think the, one of the reasons I value that period so much was that that was the group. [00:06:08.900 – 00:06:13.980] The people who responded to that challenge were the people who carried the message to me.

[00:06:13.980 – 00:06:16.460] And Sybil, Sybil was one of them. [00:06:16.460 – 00:06:23.680] You know, I, I heard Sybil one night make a talk around here somewhere, and she w- she, she was kind of a raucous old gal. [00:06:23.680 – 00:06:33.440] And she said, "People talk about anonymity and all this kind of stuff, and don't tell anybody who you are." She said, "Hell, that ain't the way I do it." She said, "My name is Sybil Shepherd. [00:06:33.440 – 00:06:36.620] My phone number is this, that, and the other, and I've been doing that for 30 years.

[00:06:36.620 – 00:06:43.340] You suckers don't ever call me." You know, so So she, she was just that kind of gal. [00:06:43.340 – 00:06:45.760] She was a real go-get-'em type of gal. [00:06:45.760 – 00:06:53.360] And it was people like that that responded to that challenge and, and handled the onslaught. [00:06:53.360 – 00:06:55.220] You know what I mean? [00:06:55.220 – 00:06:58.920] You see the distinction between the hundred that were just like a herd of goats. [00:06:58.920 – 00:07:03.220] They were just sort of running around, uh, uh, holding each other up and all that stuff. [00:07:03.220 – 00:07:10.860] The game changed when the dam broke, and here was a flood of alcoholics saying, "Take me.

[00:07:10.860 – 00:07:19.380] Uh, help me." And, and what happened all over this country was that somebody in every comm- [00:07:19.493 – 00:07:29.753] Community in this country got the message and said, "We'll do it here," said, "We'll do it here." Took the lonely [00:07:29.753 – 00:07:34.233] post and stood there and held the flag till somebody else got there. [00:07:34.233 – 00:07:35.313] Oh. [00:07:35.313 – 00:07:45.433] That was the real power, I think, of the growth and muscle-building of Alcoholics Anonymous, where we really took a responsible place in this [00:07:45.433 – 00:07:49.333] world, and we were no longer just a gaggle of drunks running around.

[00:07:49.333 – 00:07:54.793] And, and, and Bill's vision was that, that we would respond to those things. [00:07:54.793 – 00:07:56.173] And it's in the book. [00:07:56.173 – 00:07:56.693] You'll read it. [00:07:56.693 – 00:08:03.653] It says some of us travel, and we'll go around from place to place, and we'll sort of spread the word wherever we go. [00:08:03.653 – 00:08:05.473] And that's exactly what happened. [00:08:05.473 – 00:08:07.003] That's ex- exactly what happened. [00:08:07.003 – 00:08:17.173] In Yuma, Arizona, somebody got the word, and they held a post till somebody stopped by Yuma and said, "Hey, let's get a group going." So that's a,

[00:08:17.173 – 00:08:18.853] a monumental part of history. [00:08:18.853 – 00:08:19.793] I, I just… [00:08:19.793 – 00:08:23.253] One other little, little just p- personal anecdote about that. [00:08:23.253 – 00:08:29.253] Bill mentioned about, or Bob mentioned about the, um, the, uh, correspondents from North Carolina. [00:08:29.253 – 00:08:35.993] Tell you something else happened with North Carolina that, that brought to life the vision Bill had when he wrote the book. [00:08:35.993 – 00:08:43.633] If they sent out and tried to market that book to people all around the country, they thought folks would buy it. [00:08:43.633 – 00:08:45.273] They sent it to docs and stuff like that.

[00:08:45.273 – 00:08:54.573] They sent it to a doc in Shelby, North Carolina, and it happened that the doc was a drug addict. [00:08:54.573 – 00:08:55.573] He was not an alcoholic. [00:08:55.573 – 00:08:56.493] He was a drug addict. [00:08:56.493 – 00:09:05.673] But he read the book, and he said, "This thing looks like it might make sense." And so he convened a group of people. [00:09:05.673 – 00:09:12.693] He called some people he knew who had drinking problems, brought them over, and they met in the basement of his office. [00:09:12.693 – 00:09:20.393] And he told them about the, the, the, his, his experience, correspondents with Bill, gave them the book, and he left.

[00:09:20.393 – 00:09:22.233] He never became a member, obviously. [00:09:22.233 – 00:09:26.713] But that was the birth of Alcoholics Anonymous in North Carolina. [00:09:26.713 – 00:09:31.013] It came directly out of the, the way Bill, uh, uh, Bill laid it out. [00:09:31.013 – 00:09:37.353] I didn't meet the doc, but I met several of the guys who were at that first meeting. [00:09:37.353 – 00:09:47.373] And I tell you, man, if, if you get a sense of history and a sense of the drama of Alcoholics Anonymous coming alive, that'll make your, your, your [00:09:47.373 – 00:09:48.732] hair stand on end.

[00:09:48.732 – 00:09:58.613] And I, I had the opportunity to speak at the, um, anniversary of that group year, f- few years back, 55th anniversary, I think. [00:09:58.613 – 00:09:59.973] Mm-hmm. [00:09:59.973 – 00:10:04.713] And the two nurses who worked with that doc were at the meeting. [00:10:04.713 – 00:10:05.073] Mm. [00:10:05.073 – 00:10:09.393] Well, my God, I, I couldn't have been more excited if it was Sister Ignatius. [00:10:09.393 – 00:10:10.383] You know, I, I mean- … [00:10:10.383 – 00:10:15.593] I just couldn't wait to get ahold of those gals 'cause I, I said, "I want you to tell me about that." Right.

[00:10:15.593 – 00:10:19.713] And they both, really nice folk, old people, but they, uh, they were nice. [00:10:19.713 – 00:10:25.893] And so I asked, I said, "Tell me about your experience." "What do you mean?" I, "How did you feel? [00:10:25.893 – 00:10:34.553] Did, did, did you see anything important in what was going on when, when they pulled those folk in here and that?" And one gal said, "No, it didn't mean a thing to me. [00:10:34.553 – 00:10:37.653] This, this looked like a bunch of guys shooting the bull." Mm-hmm.

[00:10:37.653 – 00:10:42.973] And the other one said, "I didn't see it that way." She said, "It looked like something was gonna happen. [00:10:42.973 – 00:10:50.813] Looked important." But that's how that thing sort of caught, you know, in various places in the world, and how it caught in my state. [00:10:50.813 – 00:11:00.913] The, uh, so, so that, that part of the history to me is a, is a very significant thing, where we started to take on some real, uh, [00:11:00.913 – 00:11:10.933] real structure as a fellowship and started to be responsive and responsible and to make things happen, uh, uh, uh, further than just right, what's in, what's right in front of me.

[00:11:10.933 – 00:11:20.213] Um, couple other things I just wanted to, wanted to mention of, of, it kind of, kind of a little bit of lead in to the tradition stuff. [00:11:20.213 – 00:11:27.433] The, um, the interaction between, uh, uh, Bill and, and, uh, and, uh, Dr. [00:11:27.433 – 00:11:29.453] Silkworth that, that Bob was talking about. [00:11:29.453 – 00:11:32.493] You know, Silkworth to me was an extremely valuable part. [00:11:32.493 – 00:11:34.683] I consider him a third co-founder, really- Mm-hmm … [00:11:34.683 – 00:11:36.753] 'cause he, he was a major m-… [00:11:36.753 – 00:11:46.773] I've, I have, I have come to and been in borderline DTs and probably said a lot of things that sounded like what

[00:11:46.773 – 00:11:47.413] Bill said. [00:11:47.413 – 00:11:52.053] But when I said it, they'd put a net on me and put me in a room somewhere. [00:11:52.053 – 00:11:56.633] But when Bill came out and said, "Doc, I don't know what's wrong with me, man. [00:11:56.633 – 00:12:03.902] I'm crazy or something," thank God the guy had enough moxie to not put a net on him- Mm-hmm … [00:12:03.902 – 00:12:11.223] but to say those words, that, "I know what you got, buddy, but you better hang on to it 'cause it sure beats what you had." That's right.

[00:12:11.223 – 00:12:21.233] And the guidance he gave to Bill, you know, to get through that, and then having the, the chutzpah to turn this sucker loose in his [00:12:21.233 – 00:12:21.813] hospital. [00:12:21.813 – 00:12:26.393] I mean, here's a guy, borderline psycho one day- … [00:12:26.393 – 00:12:30.333] and the next day he's got him going around making calls on the patients. [00:12:30.333 – 00:12:30.723] Mm-hmm. [00:12:30.723 – 00:12:33.113] First guy in history to ever done that. [00:12:33.113 – 00:12:35.433] Yeah, that was a bold move. [00:12:35.433 – 00:12:35.693] Mm-hmm. [00:12:35.693 – 00:12:46.413] It was also, in my mind, one of the early building blocks into the, a philosophy that dominated

[00:12:46.413 – 00:12:48.253] our program for many years. [00:12:48.253 – 00:12:52.213] Unfortunately, I think it has weakened somewhat over the years. [00:12:52.213 – 00:13:00.093] And that's the policy, we used to characterize it as being friendly with our friends, being friendly with our friends. [00:13:00.093 – 00:13:08.453] And, and, and, when, today we call that CPC, cooperation with the professional community, but it's the same sentiment. [00:13:08.453 – 00:13:19.123] You know, recognizing that, if we recognize it, and, and, and I recognize and believe it, that the pastor of the closest church here will [00:13:19.123 – 00:13:23.513] see more alcoholics in crisis this year than any of us in this room.

[00:13:23.513 – 00:13:23.793] Yeah. [00:13:23.793 – 00:13:24.363] Mm-hmm. [00:13:24.363 – 00:13:26.133] They'll see more alcoholics in crisis. [00:13:26.133 – 00:13:27.803] Mm-hmm. [00:13:27.803 – 00:13:30.913] And they'll either know how to deal with them or they won't. [00:13:30.913 – 00:13:40.933] And they'll either know how to deal with them or they won't owing to what we do, because we're the only people that can explain what we [00:13:40.933 – 00:13:41.293] do. [00:13:41.293 – 00:13:52.093] And so what's happened over the years, we've gotten less aggressive in that reaching out and developing and, and, and, and fostering good relationships [00:13:52.093 – 00:13:56.273] with the people around us who catch drunks when they hit the wall.

[00:13:56.273 – 00:14:04.673] So Silkworth was one of the early prototypes, I think, of, of the professional who can become a, a valuable, a valuable resource. [00:14:04.673 – 00:14:13.633] Um, that, that thing when, uh, yeah, I had the same experience that Bob was talking about when I, I visited Akron. [00:14:13.633 – 00:14:15.533] If you ever get a chance to go, for God's sakes, go. [00:14:15.533 – 00:14:15.693] God. [00:14:15.693 – 00:14:22.033] It's just, I guess it's how an Irishman feels when he goes to Ireland or something. [00:14:22.033 – 00:14:28.073] I don't, they just, they just- A lot of them, a lot of them get drunk, but a lot of them just sort of have a spiritual experience.

[00:14:28.073 – 00:14:28.733] You know? [00:14:28.733 – 00:14:32.693] And I, I wandered into that Mayflower hotel one day. [00:14:32.693 – 00:14:35.153] A guy, uh, told me how to get in. [00:14:35.153 – 00:14:36.653] You're not supposed to go in, but I did. [00:14:36.653 – 00:14:38.833] And, uh, I went up there to that- [00:14:38.959 – 00:14:42.319] Uh, they call it mezza– they call– we call it mezzanine- Yeah … [00:14:42.319 – 00:14:43.599] now, but they called it lobby. [00:14:43.599 – 00:14:45.599] It's the first thing up above- Uh-huh … [00:14:45.599 – 00:14:46.858] the lobby. [00:14:46.858 – 00:14:56.919] And, and I went in there and, and it, it's like he was saying, an alcoholic that walks into that room can instantly relate

[00:14:56.919 – 00:14:58.138] to what Bill described. [00:14:58.138 – 00:14:59.109] Mm-hmm. [00:14:59.109 – 00:15:05.419] And so when I walked in there, the guy was telling me stuff, but I was privately- Mm … [00:15:05.419 – 00:15:15.159] just visualizing, excuse me, visualizing that day, and visualizing the, the frame of mind that Bill was in. [00:15:15.159 – 00:15:17.659] And it didn't take any imagination. [00:15:17.659 – 00:15:20.539] I've been in that position hundreds of times. [00:15:20.539 – 00:15:28.059] And I always yielded to the noise and laughter, because I didn't know what else was out there. [00:15:28.059 – 00:15:28.419] Yeah. [00:15:28.419 – 00:15:33.379] And so I kind of visualized that, and then you know how you role play something?

[00:15:33.379 – 00:15:35.799] I did what Bill did. [00:15:35.799 – 00:15:40.039] Walked over, you can still tell that's a bar. [00:15:40.039 – 00:15:41.299] I don't care what you do to them. [00:15:41.299 – 00:15:47.299] You can, uh, you can totally get somebody to, to tear it down and build it again. [00:15:47.299 – 00:15:48.399] You can still tell it's a bar. [00:15:48.399 – 00:15:49.719] It just speaks for itself. [00:15:49.719 – 00:16:00.359] So I walk over there, picture that, feel the feelings he felt, and then walk across to the lobby, to where he made that historic [00:16:00.359 – 00:16:00.919] phone call. [00:16:00.919 – 00:16:05.159] And, and I tell you, that's a moving experience.

[00:16:05.159 – 00:16:07.209] If you can really… [00:16:07.209 – 00:16:14.859] And, and what I, what I felt when I was in that position was what a slender thread held my destiny. [00:16:14.859 – 00:16:16.179] Mm-hmm. [00:16:16.179 – 00:16:17.358] And yours. [00:16:17.358 – 00:16:18.289] Mm-hmm. [00:16:18.289 – 00:16:26.479] If Bill hadn't done what he did, mine and your story would be different. [00:16:26.479 – 00:16:27.769] Mm-hmm. [00:16:27.769 – 00:16:34.999] I'd be better, but I guarantee you it would be different because our lives suspended from that slender thread. [00:16:34.999 – 00:16:45.219] If it hadn't been for what Tom, that, that, um, ministe- excuse me, that minister that he called, if it hadn't been for what he did, our stories

[00:16:45.219 – 00:16:45.819] would be different. [00:16:45.819 – 00:16:46.559] Henrietta. [00:16:46.559 – 00:16:51.019] That, all those actors who came together. [00:16:51.019 – 00:16:54.979] And so those were the crucibles that traditions came out of. [00:16:54.979 – 00:16:55.859] Yeah. [00:16:55.859 – 00:17:01.659] Where we started to forge kind of an ethic of how we operate with other alcoholics. [00:17:01.659 – 00:17:08.219] And we were blessed with people in our history who did an awful lot to, uh, to happen. [00:17:08.219 – 00:17:10.279] It wasn't a stroke of alcoholic genius. [00:17:10.279 – 00:17:15.139] That we were guided everywhere along the way by some real loving friends. [00:17:15.139 – 00:17:16.039] Uh, Dr. [00:17:16.039 – 00:17:18.319] Bob, we, we, uh, we canonized Dr.

[00:17:18.319 – 00:17:18.719] Bob. [00:17:18.719 – 00:17:23.759] But if you really wanna canonize somebody in Akron, we need to canonize Sister Ignatia. [00:17:23.759 – 00:17:30.739] Because that little gal, she darn near got fired as a nun of trying to help drunks. [00:17:30.739 – 00:17:33.459] Catholic Church wasn't ready for all that stuff. [00:17:33.459 – 00:17:37.159] She started stealing real estate from the hospital to help drunks. [00:17:37.159 – 00:17:46.699] And, uh, well, anyway, there's a whole story about Sister Ignatia, but she was a powerful, powerful figure. [00:17:46.699 – 00:17:52.039] And, and those were enormously important people in setting up how we deal.

[00:17:52.039 – 00:17:59.079] By the way, that hospital in Akron is the only one in the country I know that still operates just like it did in 1935. [00:17:59.079 – 00:17:59.759] Wow. [00:17:59.759 – 00:18:00.819] Still does. [00:18:00.819 – 00:18:03.479] People like, I've a buddy who goes there every day. [00:18:03.479 – 00:18:04.479] That's his commitment. [00:18:04.479 – 00:18:07.379] He, they, they think he's a staff physician or something. [00:18:07.379 – 00:18:10.849] He walks in every day, goes around, how do you do, how do you do, how you doing today? [00:18:10.849 – 00:18:11.219] Reads… [00:18:11.219 – 00:18:12.159] He doesn't read a chart. [00:18:12.159 – 00:18:13.999] But that's what he does.

[00:18:13.999 – 00:18:16.039] They've been doing it for almost 70 years. [00:18:16.039 – 00:18:26.159] So of course, I, I mentioned one other one that I think was, uh, was critically important that, that grew out of our history, was that, that Rockefeller [00:18:26.159 – 00:18:26.579] dinner. [00:18:26.579 – 00:18:29.759] It was a, a hugely important… [00:18:29.759 – 00:18:30.579] Well, two. [00:18:30.579 – 00:18:31.329] I'll mention two of them. [00:18:31.329 – 00:18:35.259] One was in that early bloom of success. [00:18:35.259 – 00:18:41.279] You know, when, when the realization struck those guys that this thing is really gonna work. [00:18:41.279 – 00:18:46.369] And with typical alcoholic grandiosity- …

[00:18:46.369 – 00:18:55.239] they started vision, en- envisioning, uh, you know, the chain of hospitals, and we'll save the world, and we'll make a ton of money, and all this kind of stuff. [00:18:55.239 – 00:19:00.979] And the, the group conscience didn't even have a name at that point. [00:19:00.979 – 00:19:02.779] Didn't have a group, really. [00:19:02.779 – 00:19:03.229] Mm-hmm. [00:19:03.229 – 00:19:08.399] But the group conscience, when Bill, you know, Silkworth tried to hire Bill to come to work there. [00:19:08.399 – 00:19:13.899] The group conscience said, "Bill, you can't do that to us. [00:19:13.899 – 00:19:22.839] Can't do it." If it hadn't, Bill would have become a professional, and again, we would have veered in a much different direction.

[00:19:22.839 – 00:19:32.959] So that was a landmark kind of a, of a, an event, where the group conscience started to form the, the principles that we, we operate by. [00:19:32.959 – 00:19:38.499] And then in that, uh, same kind of period, you had that Rockefeller dinner. [00:19:38.499 – 00:19:40.599] They were gonna set up the Con of the Year job. [00:19:40.599 – 00:19:45.699] They're gonna pull all these heavy-pocket folk in, and fleece them is what they meant to do. [00:19:45.699 – 00:19:52.279] And get this, and get them to bankroll this deal so it would really be done first class.

[00:19:52.279 – 00:19:56.919] And, uh, so they got them all together in the ballroom. [00:19:56.919 – 00:19:59.019] Asked if Rockefeller gonna pay for it, of course. [00:19:59.019 – 00:20:01.559] Bill doing invi- do the inviting. [00:20:01.559 – 00:20:03.519] Rockefeller, do the bill paying. [00:20:03.519 – 00:20:11.699] And gets them together, and they scatter them around on the table, and they put a drunk at each table, so they could lend credibility to what was going on. [00:20:11.699 – 00:20:14.579] Some of them had just gotten out of jail the day before. [00:20:14.579 – 00:20:16.779] One guy just got out of the nuthouse.

[00:20:16.779 – 00:20:19.639] I, I think he got a pass from the nuthouse to come, come out. [00:20:19.639 – 00:20:21.579] But they were set up. [00:20:21.579 – 00:20:28.059] And they gonna get the money to put this thing to- to- to- together, because Bill and Bob are living on nothing. [00:20:28.059 – 00:20:38.238] And Rockefeller said those historic words that I think were vitally important in establishing [00:20:38.239 – 00:20:41.399] a, a principle that has saved us big time. [00:20:41.399 – 00:20:50.899] When they got through making the pitch, and said, "We'll need a little money to get this thing going," Rockefeller said, "Don't you think money will mess this up?

[00:20:50.899 – 00:20:55.799] Don't you think money will mess this up?" Mm-hmm. [00:20:55.799 – 00:21:00.119] Saying no, I mean, he, he loaned five thousand bucks, which was paid back. [00:21:00.119 – 00:21:03.179] But said no to the money. [00:21:03.179 – 00:21:05.959] Because money would louse it up. [00:21:05.959 – 00:21:08.839] That led to the eighth tradition. [00:21:08.839 – 00:21:10.759] You know, that says, we don't sell this. [00:21:10.759 – 00:21:14.039] You can't sell, you can't buy what we do. [00:21:14.039 – 00:21:16.089] You can't sell what we do. [00:21:16.089 – 00:21:16.919] Mm-hmm. [00:21:16.919 – 00:21:22.779] That was a very important principle that, that has governed about an awful lot of what we do.

[00:21:22.779 – 00:21:33.499] And so, so those, when we look at that, that history, and sort of look at the, the breeding ground of traditions, [00:21:33.499 – 00:21:36.439] it's not, it was not an act of genius on Bill's part. [00:21:36.439 – 00:21:43.599] He was an incredible writer, an incredible visionary, an incredible articulator. [00:21:43.599 – 00:21:48.499] But these things were written out of experience. [00:21:48.499 – 00:21:53.499] The traditions came into being because of mistakes that we made. [00:21:53.499 – 00:21:57.879] And so the principles evolved.