[00:00:00 – 00:00:02] Thank you for that rousing ovate.

[00:00:02 – 00:00:07] It’s good to see everybody.

[00:00:07 – 00:00:08] I’m Tom, an alcoholic.

[00:00:08 – 00:00:10] Hey, Tom.

[00:00:10 – 00:00:15] And a member of the Primary Purpose group in, uh, Southern Pines, North Carolina.

[00:00:15 – 00:00:24] Voice is still a little bit on the, the hazy side, so if, if I start to dwindle down too much, just give me a signal.

[00:00:24 – 00:00:25] I don’t think I will.

[00:00:25 – 00:00:28] Uh, but feel free to do that, though.

[00:00:28 – 00:00:32] And, uh, I am glad to be here.

[00:00:32 – 00:00:35] At, uh, the, um…

[00:00:35 – 00:00:54] Pete gave you a, a, a, a, I think he gave you a decent outline of it, and, um, I, I think basically what, what I want to do in the first part of it is, um, sort of set the scene for why groups are, are, are so important.

[00:00:54 – 00:01:02] And, uh, you know, I don’t have any, any pet formulas or any pet models that I’m trying to, to sell.

[00:01:02 – 00:01:11] Uh, I’m, I’m a great believer in effectiveness, and I’m, I’m, I’m very much, uh, impressed with what works.

[00:01:11 – 00:01:17] And I’m impressed a lot of times by how little attention we pay to that.

[00:01:17 – 00:01:25] You know, uh, we, we are probably one of the most ritualistic groups of people I’ve ever seen in my life.

[00:01:25 – 00:01:28] We do stuff just ’cause we do it.

[00:01:28 – 00:01:33] And, uh, it doesn’t really matter whether it works or not, we just do it.

[00:01:33 – 00:01:41] And, uh, the old saying is that if, if, if alcoholics do something one time, it becomes a sacred tradition.

[00:01:41 – 00:01:43] A- and I think that’s true.

[00:01:43 – 00:01:47] And, and so we’ll tend to do that whether it works or not.

[00:01:47 – 00:01:52] I, I, I’ll give you one example of, uh, something that, uh, relates to a group.

[00:01:52 – 00:02:00] A while back I w- I was doing a, a talk at an anniversary of a group in Princeton, New Jersey.

[00:02:00 – 00:02:05] And you know that’s the home of Princeton University, a very enlightened community.

[00:02:05 – 00:02:08] The level of sophistication is right out the ceiling.

[00:02:08 – 00:02:15] And, uh, real, real, uh, first-class, uh, uh, community.

[00:02:15 – 00:02:32] And where I was meeting was a group that met on Saturday morning, and it had been formed for the express purpose of giving a good reception to people who were mandated by the court to get into AA or do something with, uh, with their life.

[00:02:32 – 00:02:42] So I was visiting with a couple of fellows who had been there, had been going on 11 years, and they had been there for 11 years.

[00:02:42 – 00:02:46] And I said, “Well, how’s it going?” And they both said, “Pretty well,” you know.

[00:02:46 – 00:03:04] They said, “What do you mean?” I said, “Well, do you see the people that you’re working with wind up in the program in recovery?” And the two guys looked at each other, and one of them said, “Do you know anybody?” And he said, “No.

[00:03:04 – 00:03:19] Do you?” Now, here’s two guys in, in one of the most enlightened communities in the United States working with a group that had been religiously delivering a product for 11 years, no sales.

[00:03:19 – 00:03:27] I mean, it just, there’s a reason at some point you’re going to say, “Hey, what are we doing here?

[00:03:27 – 00:03:35] Anything?” And so we’ll just tend to do stuff over and over and over and, and, uh, do it by rote almost.

[00:03:35 – 00:03:39] So I want to just visit a little bit about the, uh…

[00:03:39 – 00:03:45] I may have to wind up using this table, Pete.

[00:03:45 – 00:03:47] I, I’ll just borrow one.

[00:03:47 – 00:03:50] May I?

[00:03:50 – 00:03:53] I don’t, I don’t like to just walk in on Salt Lake people.

[00:03:53 – 00:03:57] They, they tend to get a little vicious if you don’t watch it, Pete.

[00:03:57 – 00:04:00] I tell you, if I can get so I can see…

[00:04:00 – 00:04:00] Yeah.

[00:04:00 – 00:04:06] I’m just gonna sit down and join y’all, if I may, and then probably hop around a little bit.

[00:04:06 – 00:04:09] But I can get at my papers a little bit better.

[00:04:09 – 00:04:19] And, uh, when, when I think about groups, and, and I jotted down some stuff on the airplane.

[00:04:19 – 00:04:22] If it’s not legible, it’s American Airlines’ fault.

[00:04:22 – 00:04:24] It’s certainly not my writing.

[00:04:24 – 00:04:30] Uh, of, of things that are important about a group.

[00:04:30 – 00:04:42] When, uh, when I think about a group, uh, first let me tell you that the good news is there is no set criteria for what a group is.

[00:04:42 – 00:04:47] We have some rough definitions, but there is no precise definition of a group.

[00:04:47 – 00:04:56] We’re about as generous as any fellowship could possibly be in what we identify as a group.

[00:04:56 – 00:05:11] Uh, the, the rough definition that we use most often is that it’s two or more alcoholics gathered together for the purpose of recovery can call themselves an AA group as long as they have no other affiliation.

[00:05:11 – 00:05:14] Well, that’s about as loose as you could get, isn’t it?

[00:05:14 – 00:05:20] And the good news is that there’s no quality control department- …

[00:05:20 – 00:05:23] that tells you when it is and when it ain’t, you know.

[00:05:23 – 00:05:33] So- Let me make sure that, that, that, that, that, that I make it clear that I’m not trying to impose quality control.

[00:05:33 – 00:05:48] And, and, and so what I do is observe and kinda react to the th- the stuff that, that we have in, in AA that runs the spectrum from little lightweight meetings all the way into, to, to heavily structured groups.

[00:05:48 – 00:05:54] And, uh, so mine, mine is not to criticize, it’s to identify.

[00:05:54 – 00:06:00] When I think about the importance of groups, y’all, I think back to my, to my early recovery.

[00:06:00 – 00:06:07] When, when I went in to AA, I went into an excellent group of Alcoholics Anonymous.

[00:06:07 – 00:06:11] And, and, and what I mean by an excellent group, that it was a very purposeful group.

[00:06:11 – 00:06:17] It did as good a job with the fifth tradition o- of, of any group I’ve ever seen.

[00:06:17 – 00:06:26] And, and, and, and just remind that the fifth tradition in each group has but one primary purpose, and that’s to carry its message to the alcoholic still suffers.

[00:06:26 – 00:06:29] And this group did as good a job as I’ve ever seen.

[00:06:29 – 00:06:33] Now, it happened to be in a, in a correctional institution, but it doesn’t make any difference.

[00:06:33 – 00:06:35] It was a powerful group.

[00:06:35 – 00:06:45] And what it did was take new members and then very logically, clearly, directly introduce to what the program was.

[00:06:45 – 00:06:45] Yeah.

[00:06:45 – 00:06:50] And not just sit around in a, in a, in a run- running conversation and try to figure it out.

[00:06:50 – 00:06:53] Did a great job of that.

[00:06:53 – 00:06:56] It was a group that was trustworthy.

[00:06:56 – 00:06:58] Trustworthy.

[00:06:58 – 00:07:00] That was critically important for me.

[00:07:00 – 00:07:02] I was a young guy, I didn’t feel like I belonged in AA.

[00:07:02 – 00:07:10] I, I really felt like I’d walked into a cracker factory, and, and it was important to me that this was a trustworthy…

[00:07:10 – 00:07:11] Hindsight.

[00:07:11 – 00:07:12] It…

[00:07:12 – 00:07:14] It was a trustworthy group of people.

[00:07:14 – 00:07:18] If they said they were gonna do something, that’s exactly what they did.

[00:07:18 – 00:07:21] Without question, that’s exactly what they did.

[00:07:21 – 00:07:26] If they said they were gonna perform something in a meeting, that’s exactly what happened.

[00:07:26 – 00:07:31] And for a guy like me, that was a beginning point for developing some trust.

[00:07:31 – 00:07:35] When I came here, I don’t know about you, but I didn’t trust anybody.

[00:07:35 – 00:07:37] I mean nothing.

[00:07:37 – 00:07:40] And the more righteous they were, the less I trusted them.

[00:07:40 – 00:07:48] I didn’t think anybody in this world did anything for nothing, that everybody had a little angle of something they wanted.

[00:07:48 – 00:08:01] And in this program, I started watching people operate with integrity and doing what they said they were gonna do with meetings that had genuine purpose and, and, uh, clarity to them.

[00:08:01 – 00:08:03] And so to, to me, they, they…

[00:08:03 – 00:08:11] it was tremendously important that that kind of an environment existed.

[00:08:11 – 00:08:20] The other thing that was important to me about a group, and, and, and a little later on I’ll clarify a little bit more about the distinction that I see between a group and a meeting.

[00:08:20 – 00:08:27] But very important was the fact that I was an extremely isolated guy when I came in.

[00:08:27 – 00:08:29] I was not somebody who felt comfortable.

[00:08:29 – 00:08:41] I was probably more uncomfortable in Alcoholics Anonymous than I had ever been anywhere in my life, drunk or sober, because I felt totally out of place.

[00:08:41 – 00:08:41] Yeah.

[00:08:41 – 00:08:44] I didn’t feel community with the people.

[00:08:44 – 00:08:45] I didn’t feel a sense of belonging.

[00:08:45 – 00:08:47] I didn’t feel a sense of identification.

[00:08:47 – 00:08:59] And so it was really important to me to have an environment that, not overtly, but an environment that effectively dealt with that isolation.

[00:08:59 – 00:09:07] It’s incredible to me about how a well-ordered group is sensitive to the needs of the members.

[00:09:07 – 00:09:18] Somehow, the guys in that group knew when I needed pushed and when I needed to be left alone.

[00:09:18 – 00:09:18] Yeah.

[00:09:18 – 00:09:19] And it’s…

[00:09:19 – 00:09:20] no, nobody orchestrated that.

[00:09:20 – 00:09:28] They weren’t working on me or singling out my case, but it was a good, responsive group that was sensitive to the needs of the people.

[00:09:28 – 00:09:37] And so group starts to take on real value when I start thinking about that in, in terms of the kind of environment it, that it provides.

[00:09:37 – 00:09:47] I always like to think that here we deal with incredibly difficult problems.

[00:09:47 – 00:09:54] Right now, I guarantee you, there are incredibly difficult problems sitting in this room right now.

[00:09:54 – 00:09:56] Incredibly difficult problems.

[00:09:56 – 00:09:58] You may or may not talk…

[00:09:58 – 00:10:04] I don’t mean today, but you may or may not talk about it with anybody right now, but they’re incredibly difficult problems.

[00:10:04 – 00:10:18] And we deal with a myriad prob- of problems in Alcoholics Anonymous, and having an environment that deals effectively with, with, with that, to me is, is, is critically important.

[00:10:18 – 00:10:23] I’ll give you, I’ll give you an example of, of, of the kind of thing I’m talking about.

[00:10:23 – 00:10:27] A while back, I’m unemployed now.

[00:10:27 – 00:10:30] I, I’m a sad and pitiful case.

[00:10:30 – 00:10:38] I probably wanted to take up a love offering before I’m through here and send me on my way, I guess.

[00:10:38 – 00:10:43] I, I was in a, uh, when I was still working…

[00:10:43 – 00:10:45] Good to see you.

[00:10:45 – 00:10:46] Yeah.

[00:10:46 – 00:10:49] And, uh, before I, before I…

[00:10:49 – 00:10:50] while I was still working.

[00:10:50 – 00:10:57] I was doing a professional workshop in a community gathering in a little town out near Asheville.

[00:10:57 – 00:11:06] And I was meeting with a group of citizens, and, and there were several of us there doing one of those kind of awareness programs, you know, where they get a bunch of people come in and talk.

[00:11:06 – 00:11:08] I did next to the last panel.

[00:11:08 – 00:11:13] I was on the next last panel, and then I stayed for the last one because it was a…

[00:11:13 – 00:11:18] It was basically a mental health deal, and one of their things was alcohol and, and drug stuff.

[00:11:18 – 00:11:20] So I was more than a little interested in that.

[00:11:20 – 00:11:25] So I, I was listening, and the last speaker was a psychiatrist.

[00:11:25 – 00:11:32] And, and I swear to God, he was one of the most tired, discouraged-looking people I ever seen in my life.

[00:11:32 – 00:11:36] I mean, the guy just wanted to go hug him or something because he, he’s just up there.

[00:11:36 – 00:11:42] And he’s talking about his work, and, uh, the, uh…

[00:11:42 – 00:11:54] He, he said, “My biggest problem in my work is dealing with the alcoholic who has a second diagnosis.” Well, and you know what I’m talking about.

[00:11:54 – 00:11:54] The, um…

[00:11:54 – 00:12:02] Today, if an alcoholic goes to treatment, there’s a good chance he’s gonna have a second, second diagnosis, uh, particularly if he’s got insurance coverage.

[00:12:02 – 00:12:05] You know, he, he’ll get, uh, tagged a ton of times, you know?

[00:12:05 – 00:12:10] If he can stand the branding, he may recover, but, but he’ll have a lot of labels when he gets…

[00:12:10 – 00:12:19] Anyway, what he was talking about was the guy who has a presenting difficulty in addition to his alcoholism.

[00:12:19 – 00:12:21] And well, I knew, I knew what he’s talking about.

[00:12:21 – 00:12:41] And he said, “Logically, I know that AA is the place for them to go.” He said, “But I swear to you, it seems to me that when I send them to AA, they come back worse.” And, uh, and he said, “I don’t understand it, and I, I don’t, I don’t know what to do.” I mean, the guy obviously wanted help.

[00:12:41 – 00:12:47] And, uh, I’m Tom Ivester, an alcoholic, and glad you made it.

[00:12:47 – 00:12:50] I just want you to know who’s talking to you here.

[00:12:50 – 00:12:50] Oh.

[00:12:50 – 00:12:53] The reason I talk funny, I’m from North Carolina.

[00:12:53 – 00:12:56] And I’m not fully trained.

[00:12:56 – 00:13:04] Well, I only make about a 10-minute talk, but it’ll take me an hour to do it because- …

[00:13:04 – 00:13:05] they’re training me right now .

[00:13:05 – 00:13:07] But I’m glad you made it.

[00:13:07 – 00:13:09] What, um…

[00:13:09 – 00:13:18] I mean, that guy was obviously looking for help, and he said, “Can anybody here help me with that?” Well, I, I just got through preaching.

[00:13:18 – 00:13:22] Uh, and I didn’t wanna get saying anything, and I’m not from that community.

[00:13:22 – 00:13:28] I wanted somebody in that community to say, “Hey, Doc, here’s what to do.” Nobody did.

[00:13:28 – 00:13:34] Well, I mean, I could not sit there and let the guy ask for help and, and refuse to give it.

[00:13:34 – 00:13:34] I mean, that’s stupid.

[00:13:34 – 00:13:37] And, and there were AA members in there.

[00:13:37 – 00:13:37] I knew them.

[00:13:37 – 00:13:40] I knew some people in there.

[00:13:40 – 00:13:44] So I stuck my hand up, and, and I, and I…

[00:13:44 – 00:13:48] And to tell him, I said, “I didn’t identify earlier ’cause it wasn’t…

[00:13:48 – 00:13:48] was not…

[00:13:48 – 00:14:06] Just didn’t have any reason to say, but I, I’m a recovered alcoholic, and I’ve been in the program for a while, and I understand what you’re talking about.” And then I said to him what I would say to you in, in defining this, what are we talking about when we talk about the continuum from lightweight meetings to groups.

[00:14:06 – 00:14:27] I said, “What, what you have to realize, that everything that flies the flag is not the same thing.” And there are meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous that I won’t go to because when I come out, I’m worse.

[00:14:27 – 00:14:30] And it’s just a fact of life, you know?

[00:14:30 – 00:14:50] And, uh, so obviously, if somebody has a precarious hold on mental stability, or they’re highly paranoid or, you know, or just out of their tree, if you put them into one of these sort of Jerry Springer shows that we, we unfortunately get sometime, of course they’re gonna get worse.

[00:14:50 – 00:14:55] And, and so I told him I, you know, that I understand that, and I understand you really want some help.

[00:14:55 – 00:15:06] I said, “The only thing I would advise, uh, would advise is don’t try to figure out how to recognize good ones from, from weak ones and weird ones and whatever.

[00:15:06 – 00:15:20] Get to know two or three people in AA that you trust, and then when you’ve got a referral to make, make it through them because they’ll know where to go.” And if you tell them what they got…

[00:15:20 – 00:15:24] If somebody called me and said, you know, “I’ve got a guy who’s manic depressive.

[00:15:24 – 00:15:26] He may be ceiling, he may be cellar,” you know?

[00:15:26 – 00:15:29] And I’ll, I’ll know what to do with that guy, you know?

[00:15:29 – 00:15:34] I know a guy in that condition that’s been sober now 27 years.

[00:15:34 – 00:15:40] I guarantee you, he’s gonna have that boy sitting on his porch right, right away.

[00:15:40 – 00:15:56] But that’s what I’m talking about, is, is that when you look at AA and you look at the level of problems that we deal with, you can see why the integrity of a group and the solidity of a group starts to take on important proportions.

[00:15:56 – 00:16:00] And now we’re wide open, you know?

[00:16:00 – 00:16:04] And so we have to do that in an arena that fits the description I said.

[00:16:04 – 00:16:10] Any time two folks g- gather and, and they don’t have a hookup with anybody else, if they’re alcoholics, they call themselves a group.

[00:16:10 – 00:16:12] It doesn’t matter what they’re doing.

[00:16:12 – 00:16:18] You know, they can meet to- Talk about the futility of the service structure in Ogden, Utah.

[00:16:18 – 00:16:20] Fine, that’s their agenda.

[00:16:20 – 00:16:28] You know, there’s no police force to go by and say, “Hey, you can’t do that.” Whether it makes sense or not, you can do that under that license.

[00:16:28 – 00:16:33] And, and so it’s kind of an important awareness.

[00:16:33 – 00:16:38] You know, some, some things happen in, in this kind of an environment that, that, that…

[00:16:38 – 00:16:42] I, I, I tell you a k- a kind of thing that happens.

[00:16:42 – 00:16:45] I, I was doing a meeting in a…

[00:16:45 – 00:16:45] It, it’s not a meeting.

[00:16:45 – 00:16:53] We did an information session in a jail that was a real hot-cot type of place, you know, that guys just mostly there overnight or what have you.

[00:16:53 – 00:17:01] And we were doing just a little, uh, little information session saying, “Hey, if you got some trouble with that thing, here’s what you can do about it,” and then boogie on.

[00:17:01 – 00:17:03] It wasn’t a meeting, just information.

[00:17:03 – 00:17:13] And I was over there one night, another fella and I, and I was talking with him, and there was a small group of guys, and two of them had been to AA before.

[00:17:13 – 00:17:21] And, uh, I said, “Tell me what your experience was.” “What do you mean?” I go, “Tell me what you saw.

[00:17:21 – 00:17:24] What did you feel?” One of them was in for almost five years.

[00:17:24 – 00:17:28] The other one was, uh, uh, 10 or 11 months, something like that.

[00:17:28 – 00:17:31] It was really interesting what they said.

[00:17:31 – 00:17:39] And, and these, uh, they obviously hadn’t rehearsed because they just heard the question, but both of them sounded like Xerox copies.

[00:17:39 – 00:17:57] Both of them said, “It seemed to me like a bunch of sad, angry people.” It’d be real easy if we could come back with some trite saying, “Well, at least they ain’t in jail.” The thing is the experience, you know?

[00:17:57 – 00:18:04] Because if you go to enough meetings, I guarantee you you’ll go to some that will make you have that feeling.

[00:18:04 – 00:18:11] If you go to some w- expecting a warm welcome, you may very as well get stiffed, you know?

[00:18:11 – 00:18:17] It’s just what happens when you have a wide range of things that go under the flag.

[00:18:17 – 00:18:18] They’re not all gonna be alike.

[00:18:18 – 00:18:33] And so th- just to me, it’s sort of important to recognize, particularly if you’re gonna be going deeper into how to be more effective in the work that we do with people, and understanding that there are a lot of different…

[00:18:33 – 00:18:39] W- we say we got a wrench for every nut, but it ain’t the same wrench, you know?

[00:18:39 – 00:18:41] You got a lot of different things.

[00:18:41 – 00:18:46] So it just seems to me that it’s a, that it’s a, a, a an awfully important thing.

[00:18:46 – 00:18:57] A, a one other thing, and, and, and, and what I’m trying to do right now is just kind of sensitize you a little bit to the agenda of, you know, when you look at these things, what, what is it we’re talking about?

[00:18:57 – 00:18:59] And so we’re talking about that wide range of stuff.

[00:18:59 – 00:19:15] One of the things that happens in AA, and it happens in groups as well as meetings, is that you, you, you, you get some dangerous kind of stuff going, like for example, dealing with prescription medications.

[00:19:15 – 00:19:21] It is a rare one coming out of treatment today that doesn’t have a prescription for something.

[00:19:21 – 00:19:30] And there are some people who have disabilities that are not gonna be treated without medication.

[00:19:30 – 00:19:31] That’s just a fact.

[00:19:31 – 00:19:42] And sometimes we get a little carried away in our agenda and start to impose our directions on people in that situation.

[00:19:42 – 00:19:47] I’ve been to funerals of some people who got inappropriately advised.

[00:19:47 – 00:19:49] So it’s a heavy-duty thing.

[00:19:49 – 00:19:59] It’s a heavy-duty thing that needs real careful, thoughtful attention and not some kind of a heavy-handed, just sort of simplistic thing.

[00:19:59 – 00:20:04] And, and so there’s a lot to the environment in which we do business.

[00:20:04 – 00:20:16] And so, like, there’ll always be a variety, but just I’ll, I like to be thoughtful about the various ways that we do it, the various places that we do it.

[00:20:16 – 00:20:31] Um, and when you look at the, uh, at the spectrum, you’ll see a, a lot of diversity in it, you know, from, from, from the, the real extremely structured things to, uh…

[00:20:31 – 00:20:34] Now, I’m a group guy.

[00:20:34 – 00:20:37] Now, you might have felt that bias by now.

[00:20:37 – 00:20:40] I’m a If not, let me make it real plain.

[00:20:40 – 00:20:42] I’m a group guy, you know?

[00:20:42 – 00:20:48] I’m a great believer in, in, uh, in the f- the, the, the functionality of groups.

[00:20:48 – 00:21:02] And, um, when I look at that, what, what I’m talking about is a group that’s a committed g- a committed gathering of alcoholics in action.

[00:21:02 – 00:21:05] You know, like right now we’re a meeting.

[00:21:05 – 00:21:10] I suspect that a good number of this meeting have come from solid groups.

[00:21:10 – 00:21:15] I would just suspect that, that, uh, I mean, who else is gonna show up on a…

[00:21:15 – 00:21:18] I guess this is a typical Utah day.

[00:21:18 – 00:21:24] We had brilliant sunshine and snow at the same time.

[00:21:24 – 00:21:28] I didn’t know whether to get in shorts or- …

[00:21:28 – 00:21:30] or, or a ski suit, you know?

[00:21:30 – 00:21:33] Typical day, yeah.

[00:21:33 – 00:21:39] But we’re, we’re folks on a Saturday afternoon taking time out to talk turkey about some stuff i- in, in fellowship.

[00:21:40 – 00:21:41] So probably singing to the choir.

[00:21:41 – 00:21:49] But a group, to me, is a well, it’s a well-ordered method of doing business.

[00:21:49 – 00:21:52] It’s a place where you have a sense of belonging.

[00:21:52 – 00:21:58] It’s a place where there’s some commitment to some plans of action, you know, that, that happen in a group.

[00:21:58 – 00:22:00] And as I would …

[00:22:00 – 00:22:05] I’ll spend less of the time talking about the, the things that contribute.

[00:22:05 – 00:22:17] In, in the rest of this session, what I wanna do is, and I’ll have to quit philosophizing so deeply and get into the, the, the racetrack mode, because they already told me they’d hurt me if I didn’t stay right on time, precisely.

[00:22:17 – 00:22:29] The, uh, when, when I, when I look at that, uh, I wanna talk about the values of a group at a personal level and a group level.

[00:22:29 – 00:22:32] I, I alluded to a couple of those things when I started out.

[00:22:32 – 00:22:34] It, it’s, it’s important.

[00:22:34 – 00:22:36] I’ll, I’ll reinforce it.

[00:22:36 – 00:22:40] It’s important to me when I start looking at what’s personally important to me in a group.

[00:22:40 – 00:22:43] It, it impacts isolation.

[00:22:43 – 00:22:58] A group of people where you’ve got some con- consistency in the people there, for people who are extremely isolated, that’s an extremely important thing, because you start feeling that little bit of trust, and you’ll open up a little bit to somebody.

[00:22:58 – 00:23:08] So where you’ve got a, a meeting that doesn’t have the consistent quality of, of, of people, where you got a concentration of people, it’s not gonna be overly helpful in that.

[00:23:08 – 00:23:12] And so I’m not the only guy who ever came into AA isolated.

[00:23:12 – 00:23:16] I know that’s a common characteristic of, of many of us.

[00:23:16 – 00:23:25] So I think a group is gonna come a lot closer to being responsive to that situation and to starting to resolve it.

[00:23:25 – 00:23:29] But one of the things that’s fostered in a group is a sense of belonging.

[00:23:29 – 00:23:31] It’s a sense of belonging.

[00:23:31 – 00:23:33] This is where I fit.

[00:23:33 – 00:23:35] So that’s an important thing to me.

[00:23:35 – 00:23:40] That sense of belonging is that we’ve got a shared purpose.

[00:23:40 – 00:23:43] We’ve, we’re, we’re pulling together.

[00:23:43 – 00:23:43] We’re doing something.

[00:23:43 – 00:23:54] When I came in here today, uh, I, I told folk that I wasn’t smart but I was pretty strong, and that I wanted to be of service.

[00:23:54 – 00:23:58] Well, you don’t wanna say that around Pete too much.

[00:23:58 – 00:24:03] But I spent the morning hauling chairs and, and stuff.

[00:24:03 – 00:24:08] But that’s great because I wasn’t kidding.

[00:24:08 – 00:24:17] I do want to do that because I don’t know of anything that more quickly gives you that sense of belonging than being part of the team, you know?

[00:24:17 – 00:24:21] It’s just like if we were gonna move this table right here, I can move the sucker by myself.

[00:24:21 – 00:24:23] I can get it done.

[00:24:23 – 00:24:24] I’m good at that.

[00:24:24 – 00:24:27] I know how to move tables, even one like this.

[00:24:27 – 00:24:32] But if the four of us did it, it’d be an easier job, wouldn’t it?

[00:24:32 – 00:24:38] And then we would be a closer group because we’re sharing in something.

[00:24:38 – 00:24:39] We’re…

[00:24:39 – 00:24:44] Now, that’s a little thing, but those little things are critically important to an isolated person.

[00:24:44 – 00:24:49] Isolated people don’t react well to gushy, warm hugs.

[00:24:49 – 00:24:51] Don’t react well.

[00:24:51 – 00:24:53] Those are not welcoming.

[00:24:53 – 00:24:56] Those are threatening things to isolated people.

[00:24:56 – 00:25:04] But you can get past that when you start to participate in things that don’t get into your space that much, and you start feeling that connection.

[00:25:04 – 00:25:13] And one of the reasons I, I told them, one of the reasons that I’m a world-class room setter upper, I’ve been doing it for 48 years.

[00:25:13 – 00:25:16] My God, I ought to be fairly good at it.

[00:25:16 – 00:25:17] You know?

[00:25:17 – 00:25:18] Or else I’m a lousy learner.

[00:25:18 – 00:25:28] And because I learned that early on, that while I couldn’t get up and preach and all that kind of stuff, I could doggone well haul chairs, and I know how to set ’em up.

[00:25:28 – 00:25:29] I know how to make ’em work, you know.

[00:25:29 – 00:25:34] So that’s, that’s one of my service areas, longstanding.

[00:25:34 – 00:25:35] Probably my best one.

[00:25:35 – 00:25:38] But I’ve persisted at it anyway.

[00:25:38 – 00:25:46] But that sense of belonging that comes with that, to me, is tremendously important in a group, and you don’t get that in casual gatherings.

[00:25:46 – 00:25:50] You know, you get that in, in groups where there’s purposeful action.

[00:25:50 – 00:25:52] You know how to recognize a visitor.

[00:25:52 – 00:25:56] You know how to kind of nudge him into the, to the middle of stuff, so critically important.

[00:25:56 – 00:26:05] The id- identity, the, the, the, the, the identity is an important thing to me.

[00:26:05 – 00:26:19] When I look at what’s important to me with a group, if you came to my town, you know, if you come over to visit the folk in Asheville, if you came to my town and you called AA or you ran into somebody and you say, “Where’s Old…

[00:26:19 – 00:26:36] Where, where can I find Tom Ivester?” If they know me, and they, good chance they do ’cause I’m in a little town, they, if it was Monday night, they’d say, “Well, you’ll find him over at the First Baptist Church of Southern Pines.” See, people who know me know that’s who, that’s who I am.

[00:26:36 – 00:26:37] That’s where I belong.

[00:26:37 – 00:26:45] And when that group meets, I meet, unless there’s something that’s overridingly important that, that I do that night.

[00:26:45 – 00:26:48] Once in a while I do that, but my home group is a commitment.

[00:26:48 – 00:26:50] That’s not a nice place to visit.

[00:26:50 – 00:26:50] That’s my home group.

[00:26:50 – 00:26:51] That’s where I fit.

[00:26:51 – 00:26:52] That’s where I belong.

[00:26:52 – 00:26:54] And it’s a part of my identity.

[00:26:54 – 00:26:57] It’s a part of my identity right now.

[00:26:57 – 00:27:00] You know, when I introduced myself, I said I’m a member of the Primary Purpose Group.

[00:27:00 – 00:27:01] I don’t ever want to forget that.

[00:27:01 – 00:27:01] I won’t.

[00:27:01 – 00:27:08] You know, my identity- It, it gives me a solid fix on where I belong in AA.

[00:27:08 – 00:27:09] You know, if…

[00:27:09 – 00:27:14] when I say I’m an alcoholic, and I’m a member, that makes me one of a crowd of two million people.

[00:27:14 – 00:27:18] There ain’t much intimacy in two million people.

[00:27:18 – 00:27:29] And so what my home group does is narrow that down to the place where I find my comfort, where I find that my needs are met, and my work gets done.

[00:27:29 – 00:27:37] That becomes my base, and that’s where that sense of belonging sta- and identity starts to really take shape.

[00:27:37 – 00:27:45] And, uh, strange thing that, uh, you know, this sounds goofy.

[00:27:45 – 00:27:45] I’ve got…

[00:27:45 – 00:28:01] Well, you’ll hear more goofy, but This really sounds goofy, but I, I heard a, a, a sort of an enigmatic definition of group one time that just made sense to me.

[00:28:01 – 00:28:14] It said, “Group is two or more people, one of whom needn’t be present.” I thought, “What is that?” Then I thought about it.

[00:28:14 – 00:28:17] But, God, is that ever true.

[00:28:17 – 00:28:21] You know, I’m a member of my home group right now.

[00:28:21 – 00:28:22] That’s a part of me.

[00:28:22 – 00:28:24] That’s a part of who I am.

[00:28:24 – 00:28:29] That’s my identity, and it’s a, it’s a real active relationship.

[00:28:29 – 00:28:32] I solved a lot of problems on the plane.

[00:28:32 – 00:28:34] I was working on this stuff on the plane.

[00:28:34 – 00:28:35] I was working on my home group.

[00:28:35 – 00:28:36] Yeah, it was stuff.

[00:28:36 – 00:28:42] I was up there close to God on that plane, and I said, “Hey, tell me some good stuff I can do here,” you know?

[00:28:42 – 00:28:48] There’s a, uh, two or more people, one of whom ha- needn’t be present.

[00:28:48 – 00:28:51] You know the word karma?

[00:28:51 – 00:28:55] I can’t define it, but it’s just sort of a…

[00:28:55 – 00:28:58] it’s some sort of a force that you feel.

[00:28:58 – 00:28:59] You know, it’s a, it’s a…

[00:28:59 – 00:29:06] And karma is what I’m talking about, is that you don’t have to be looking at the person to be connected to the, to the person.

[00:29:06 – 00:29:08] So that’s a part of my identity.

[00:29:08 – 00:29:10] That’s very important.

[00:29:10 – 00:29:13] I’m not a member of a herd of two million.

[00:29:13 – 00:29:22] I am, but more specifically, I’m committed to a group that has a purpose and, and, and, and some principles that we’re, we’re about.

[00:29:22 – 00:29:23] I’m a married man.

[00:29:23 – 00:29:25] That’s a group.

[00:29:25 – 00:29:27] My wife and I are a group.

[00:29:27 – 00:29:29] I tried to call her today, but she was out spending money or something.

[00:29:29 – 00:29:31] I hope she was spending money.

[00:29:31 – 00:29:34] That’s probably the most harmless thing she could do.

[00:29:34 – 00:29:37] But we, I mean, we’re married.

[00:29:37 – 00:29:40] We you know, on that plane, we’re married in the Marriott Hotel.

[00:29:40 – 00:29:43] It’s just lonely sleeping.

[00:29:43 – 00:29:45] That…

[00:29:45 – 00:29:47] And I’m looking for anything now.

[00:29:47 – 00:29:50] But you know what I’m talking about.

[00:29:50 – 00:29:53] And, and that’s that same thing in, in being well connected in a group.

[00:29:53 – 00:29:59] It’s, it makes you feel like you’re anchored somewhere, and so it becomes a part of my personality.

[00:29:59 – 00:30:01] You know, it’s just like my fingerprints.

[00:30:01 – 00:30:04] They go with me, and that’s, that’s where I belong.

[00:30:04 – 00:30:13] I’m not a slave, but that’s where I’ve made my commitment, put my flag, and say, “I’ll do my work here.” So I’m home.

[00:30:13 – 00:30:15] And, uh, no other…

[00:30:15 – 00:30:20] I mean, I attend AA all over the place, but no other place has the same meaning.

[00:30:20 – 00:30:29] When I walk into that home group, uh, I’ll talk a little bit more about that, but I’ve got a whole function in that home group, that it does more than make me feel good.

[00:30:29 – 00:30:33] Um, responsibility.

[00:30:33 – 00:30:37] Uh, well, no, the solid foundation in, in the program.

[00:30:37 – 00:30:39] Let me just…

[00:30:39 – 00:30:43] I am the world’s worst at keeping time.

[00:30:43 – 00:30:44] All right, I’m all right.

[00:30:44 – 00:30:46] The, uh…

[00:30:46 – 00:30:51] You know, there’s a real problem, uh, in AA.

[00:30:51 – 00:31:06] I, I run into it everywhere I go, and I’m sure you do too, with people who are active in the program trying to sort out balance in their lives, you know, that want to know how much is too much, and, you know, how do you moderate, and how do you get, and how much is too, is right.

[00:31:06 – 00:31:09] It, it’s something that folks str- struggle with.

[00:31:09 – 00:31:22] A home group, the way I define it in my, in, in my recovery, is a huge, huge asset in sorting that out.

[00:31:22 – 00:31:34] You hear people say that, “AA is the most important thing in my life,” and I know that’s well meant.

[00:31:34 – 00:31:36] But that’s a dumb statement.

[00:31:36 – 00:31:42] If I said that to my wife- My God, you know?

[00:31:42 – 00:31:45] I might well wave a red flag in front of that girl.

[00:31:45 – 00:31:49] And most anybody’s gonna feel the same way.

[00:31:49 – 00:31:52] AA is an, an entity.

[00:31:52 – 00:31:54] It’s two million herd of people.

[00:31:54 – 00:31:55] You know?

[00:31:55 – 00:31:57] That most important thing in my life?

[00:31:57 – 00:31:59] You know?

[00:31:59 – 00:32:04] And, and what we often sneak under that tent is that it’s holy.

[00:32:04 – 00:32:08] And that if it’s AA, you can’t quarrel with it.

[00:32:08 – 00:32:28] And what a home group does is starts to sort out for me the difference between the actions, and it sounds like semantics, but the actions of recovery in Alcoholics Anonymous and the a- and the corollary activities of Alcoholics Anonymous.

[00:32:29 – 00:32:33] Sounds like splitting hairs, but I think it’s a huge difference.

[00:32:33 – 00:32:43] My home group is a commitment, and that means that on Monday or Thursday night when my group meets, I’m there.

[00:32:43 – 00:32:45] That’s a commitment.

[00:32:45 – 00:32:46] That’s not negotiable.

[00:32:46 – 00:32:48] That’s a commitment.

[00:32:48 – 00:32:50] I, I’ll give you example.

[00:32:50 – 00:32:56] My son is a fine young physician, and he’s finally started making some money after eating mine for a long time.

[00:32:56 – 00:32:58] And he’s finally making some.

[00:32:58 – 00:33:01] And I told him I didn’t want him to repay me.

[00:33:01 – 00:33:06] All I wanted him to do was, first time he’s transplanted something, I wanted a 500 SL convertible.

[00:33:06 – 00:33:09] Other than that, he can forget it.

[00:33:09 – 00:33:17] Well, he came to visit, and he was kind of feeling good ’cause he had made a little money, and he wanted to take us to dinner.

[00:33:17 – 00:33:24] And I guess he was watching me, and you know, you, you can’t hide how you feel.

[00:33:24 – 00:33:28] And, and he must have seen something, or else his memory kicked in.

[00:33:28 – 00:33:29] He said, “Oh, wait a minute.

[00:33:29 – 00:33:35] This is group night, isn’t it?” And I said, “Yeah.” And he said, “Oh, well, we’ll do it a different time,” you know.

[00:33:35 – 00:33:37] Well, see, it was no big deal.

[00:33:37 – 00:33:48] Now, if I’d have said to him, “I’m sorry, son, but I’m going over to a meeting tonight, and AA comes first,” imagine what that message would’ve been.

[00:33:48 – 00:33:50] Whole different message, eh?

[00:33:50 – 00:33:58] See, when he understands what my commitments are, he can honor those intret– those commitments if I keep ’em.

[00:33:58 – 00:34:02] In the real world, that’s what we call integrity.

[00:34:02 – 00:34:06] You do what you say you’re gonna do when you say you’re gonna do it.

[00:34:06 – 00:34:10] And then folks can know how to trust you and deal with you.

[00:34:10 – 00:34:20] If I try to get my family to give me a blank check so that anything I d- do under the banner of AA is a righteous mission- Uh-uh.

[00:34:20 – 00:34:20] Come on now.

[00:34:20 – 00:34:32] And so a home group is a real clear place for me to start working resolution into that and some balance to differentiate between important actions and activities.

[00:34:32 – 00:34:39] Coming to Utah was not a holy commitment till I put it on the calendar, then it became a commitment.

[00:34:39 – 00:34:46] But if we’d had something important in my family before Pete called, that would’ve been on the calendar.

[00:34:46 – 00:34:47] Yeah.

[00:34:47 – 00:34:55] So it’s a matter of how to have some order and some balance and perspective in life and a, a calendar that has integrity.

[00:34:55 – 00:34:59] So you know, it, it’s pretty easy to work out when folks get used to it.

[00:34:59 – 00:35:03] When my kids graduated from college, you know, they know to…

[00:35:03 – 00:35:05] Well, I have to give you an even fresher example.

[00:35:05 – 00:35:10] A while back, a good while back, my son was at the house.

[00:35:10 – 00:35:16] He said, “Dad, can I see your calendar?” And I said, “Yeah.” And so he got it.

[00:35:16 – 00:35:17] He’s looking.

[00:35:17 – 00:35:42] I said, “What are you looking for?” And he said, “I’m trying to find a weekend that you’re home.” I said, I said, “What for?” And he said, “Well, I want to invite you to a wedding.” I said, “Oh, okay, whose?” He said, “Mine.” He said, “I’d like for you to be there.” Well, I mean, he grew up with that, you know, and, and so he was quite negotiable on his calendar.

[00:35:42 – 00:35:44] He could get married whenever they said.

[00:35:44 – 00:35:47] And so they picked a weekend when I’m home.

[00:35:47 – 00:35:47] Yeah.

[00:35:47 – 00:35:49] And that’s, that’s, that’s what I’m talking about.

[00:35:49 – 00:35:58] It’s, it’s, it’s a commitment, but it’s not something that’s gonna destroy a family or put a lot of tension because of the commitment.

[00:35:58 – 00:36:05] And if there’s something that I’m doing that’s not in line with my committed activities in the home group, it’s under a different heading.

[00:36:05 – 00:36:06] It’s under a different heading.

[00:36:06 – 00:36:19] And so very important to me in terms of just having my recovery settle in in a healthy kind of way is this business of getting down to business so that I’m, I am, I am a predictable kind of an entity.

[00:36:19 – 00:36:21] The…

[00:36:21 – 00:36:23] And, and, and, oh, that’s right.

[00:36:23 – 00:36:24] Y’all gonna write, write questions.

[00:36:24 – 00:36:27] Uh, res- responsibility.

[00:36:27 – 00:36:34] That one great thing about being a part of a group is that I’m responsible for that group.

[00:36:34 – 00:36:37] I am responsible as a member for that group.

[00:36:37 – 00:36:42] Yeah, I know the guys that put this together in this cabin are gonna leave this cabin in better shape than they found it.

[00:36:42 – 00:36:44] That’s responsibility.

[00:36:44 – 00:36:47] It’s what a group’s about.

[00:36:47 – 00:36:48] What a…

[00:36:48 – 00:36:49] Excuse me.

[00:36:49 – 00:36:50] What a group’s about.

[00:36:50 – 00:36:52] I’m responsible.

[00:36:52 – 00:36:56] If there’s a problem in that group, it’s my problem.

[00:36:56 – 00:36:59] I don’t look around for somebody to come fix it.

[00:36:59 – 00:37:01] That’s p- my problem.

[00:37:01 – 00:37:03] That’s a part of my real estate.

[00:37:03 – 00:37:06] If we’ve got a financial problem, it’s my finan- financial problem.

[00:37:06 – 00:37:08] You know, whatever.

[00:37:08 – 00:37:14] And, and it’s a whole diff– uh, it puts a whole different slant on what a meeting means, you know.

[00:37:14 – 00:37:26] When, when I go there, I tell you this, it has been so long, I can’t even remember the last time that I went into a meeting with some sense of what I needed.

[00:37:26 – 00:37:31] And I’m talking about not even in this century, I don’t think.

[00:37:31 – 00:37:31] I…

[00:37:31 – 00:37:36] It’s been a long time since I, since I’ve done that.

[00:37:36 – 00:37:48] Because when I go in, I’ve got a job in my home group, and that’s to be sure that we have a meeting that’s gonna be so good that anybody that doesn’t make it is gonna lose something.

[00:37:48 – 00:37:50] That’s my job.

[00:37:50 – 00:37:55] I’m somebody who doesn’t believe there’s such a thing- thing as an unimportant meeting.

[00:37:55 – 00:37:59] I think every meeting is important.

[00:37:59 – 00:38:03] Maybe life or death for somebody.

[00:38:03 – 00:38:04] You don’t know.

[00:38:04 – 00:38:05] You just don’t know.

[00:38:05 – 00:38:09] As people can be talking grin- grinning, and I’m…

[00:38:09 – 00:38:11] yes, I’m fine, and all that stuff.

[00:38:11 – 00:38:13] But I think every meeting is serious.

[00:38:13 – 00:38:25] In my home group, I wanna be sure that whatever I contribute is gonna contribute to having a good, sound meeting that will, will help ensure the solution and recovery for people.

[00:38:25 – 00:38:28] Not interested in a gab fest or a chat room.

[00:38:28 – 00:38:30] Deliver me.

[00:38:30 – 00:38:35] I want something that’s solution-oriented and purposeful and thoughtful.

[00:38:35 – 00:38:36] Yeah.

[00:38:36 – 00:38:39] So that’s my responsibility.

[00:38:39 – 00:38:42] If, of, of anything that happens there, I don’t look around.

[00:38:42 – 00:38:52] I take that, and that’s a whole part of this thing of growing up into recovery that’s strong and vital and purposeful and not just sort of casual stuff.

[00:38:52 – 00:39:02] Um, it, it, it broadens my concern where I start…

[00:39:02 – 00:39:11] and it follows really on what I was just saying, where I start thinking in a meeting of how we’re doing rather than how I’m doing.

[00:39:11 – 00:39:14] So I’m not focused on me.

[00:39:14 – 00:39:23] You know, self-centered isolation was the heart of my problem, and working on self-centered isolation is a sure way to stay that way.

[00:39:23 – 00:39:31] When I start getting concerned and actively involved in trying to help somebody else, I get better.

[00:39:31 – 00:39:32] I get better.

[00:39:32 – 00:39:39] If I go to somebody and try to make them welcome in the meeting, man, my welcome is assured.

[00:39:39 – 00:39:51] And so that’s, that’s the thing where it starts to broaden out and to get me in concerned in, in the world around me rather than just focusing on, on me and mine.

[00:39:51 – 00:39:55] It, it’s, it’s home.

[00:39:55 – 00:39:56] It’s home.

[00:39:56 – 00:40:04] That’s a great feeling that when I walk in my home group, I’m home, and that’s a good place to be.

[00:40:04 – 00:40:09] For a guy that wandered the face of this earth, I’m home.

[00:40:09 – 00:40:18] I, I tell you what goes with that is the, um, and I won’t, I won’t elaborate on it much, but the first tradition.

[00:40:18 – 00:40:23] You know, the, you know, the first tradition is our co– our, our common welfare comes first.

[00:40:23 – 00:40:26] Personal recovery depends upon a unity.

[00:40:26 – 00:40:31] I like to just transpose that a little bit and say that my recovery comes first.

[00:40:31 – 00:40:36] My recovery depends on unity.

[00:40:36 – 00:40:52] My, so my home group is where I’m betting my life, and so I’m gonna take good care of my home group because my welfare depends on the wellness of that group.

[00:40:52 – 00:40:54] And so it’s very…

[00:40:54 – 00:40:55] it’s a selfish thing.

[00:40:55 – 00:40:56] It’s not generous.

[00:40:56 – 00:40:59] You know, I’m not a missionary going in there trying to do work.

[00:40:59 – 00:41:01] You know, I’ve got a selfish motive.

[00:41:01 – 00:41:04] But to the untrained eye, it would look unselfish.

[00:41:04 – 00:41:10] But underneath, you can bet I’m not the resident do-gooder.

[00:41:10 – 00:41:17] I’m a guy who’s realistic enough to know that if the group ain’t qui– ain’t right, uh, old Thomas is not gonna be right.

[00:41:17 – 00:41:23] And so very important for me to have that place that’s home, and I take care of my home.

[00:41:23 – 00:41:28] I’m a good neighbor, but I don’t fix anybody else’s house.

[00:41:28 – 00:41:30] I fix mine.

[00:41:30 – 00:41:30] Yeah.

[00:41:30 – 00:41:32] And so it’s selfish underneath everything.

[00:41:32 – 00:41:37] It’s, it’s a commitment.

[00:41:37 – 00:41:40] It’s, uh…

[00:41:40 – 00:41:44] I, I, I talked about that one enough.

[00:41:44 – 00:41:46] I, I’m a member.

[00:41:46 – 00:41:48] I’m a member.

[00:41:48 – 00:41:51] It, it solidifies my feeling of being a member.

[00:41:51 – 00:41:59] You know, a, a lot of folks never get to the point of feeling a real sense of membership.

[00:41:59 – 00:42:08] Uh, it, it, it tend to operate at a level of just dropping in at meetings and sort of sucking up what they need and going on with the business.

[00:42:08 – 00:42:13] And, and, and that, that doesn’t give you that feeling of membership, of real connection.

[00:42:13 – 00:42:18] Well, you can make it by with it, but it doesn’t give you that in-depth experience.

[00:42:18 – 00:42:26] And, and so what, what a group does for me is it gives me that feeling of, of real membership.

[00:42:26 – 00:42:38] And what it makes me is that I become a link in the chain of love and service that has encircled this globe many times.

[00:42:38 – 00:42:43] And my home group deter– helps me determine what kind of link I’m gonna be.

[00:42:43 – 00:42:50] I can be a dead end, I can be a weak link, or I can be a strong link.

[00:42:50 – 00:42:56] But my being a good, sound member helps me be that kind of a link.

[00:42:56 – 00:42:59] I wanna be the best-informed member that I can be.

[00:42:59 – 00:43:03] I wanna be supportive of the work of our fellowship.

[00:43:03 – 00:43:13] When we elect a GSR, I wanna give my best thought to getting the person who will do that job and not just somebody that know how to say no.

[00:43:13 – 00:43:18] I wanna be sure I get somebody that connects our group to the world around us.

[00:43:18 – 00:43:25] And so- As a member, that, that’s just a simple thing that happens that starts to strengthen who I am in Alcoholics Anonymous.

[00:43:25 – 00:43:28] It makes me a link in that chain and not a dead end, yeah.

[00:43:28 – 00:43:33] Um, leadership, yeah.

[00:43:33 – 00:43:51] It’s incredible to me, you know, I have learned far more in Alcoholics Anonymous, no fist dick, but I’ve learned far more in Alcoholics Anonymous than any university I’ve ever attended.

[00:43:51 – 00:43:53] Mm.

[00:43:53 – 00:43:59] In the skills of leading, in the skills of effective citizenship, in the skills of effectively working with people.

[00:43:59 – 00:44:06] I’ve had great training, but I’ve had great learning in Alcoholics Anonymous.

[00:44:06 – 00:44:10] And the thing of for…

[00:44:10 – 00:44:14] When I first came in, I didn’t a bit more know how to chair a meeting than the man in the moon.

[00:44:14 – 00:44:15] Didn’t know how to set one up.

[00:44:15 – 00:44:16] Now I’m world-class.

[00:44:16 – 00:44:18] Man, I can set them up with the best of them.

[00:44:18 – 00:44:21] And I can chair one, yeah.

[00:44:21 – 00:44:23] But those are just skills that learn.

[00:44:23 – 00:44:26] Yeah, learn how to be attentive to other people.

[00:44:26 – 00:44:31] Learn how to see if I can influence people in a direction.

[00:44:31 – 00:44:36] You know, as you get a little older in the program, whether you want to be or not, you’re going to become a leader.

[00:44:36 – 00:44:40] It’s real easy to tell if you’re a good leader.

[00:44:40 – 00:44:43] All you got to do is look around behind you.

[00:44:43 – 00:44:46] If there’s anybody following you, you might be leading.

[00:44:46 – 00:44:49] If there ain’t nobody following, you ain’t leading.

[00:44:49 – 00:44:51] You, you may call it that, yeah.

[00:44:51 – 00:44:53] So it’s learning leadership.

[00:44:53 – 00:44:59] You know, how can I start to influence and, and, and be effective in, in getting other people into this work?

[00:44:59 – 00:45:02] Comes from a good, sound group.

[00:45:02 – 00:45:07] It, it’ll encourage and deliver sponsorship.

[00:45:07 – 00:45:11] You know, a lot of time we bandy that around, you know, and, and, and, and do…

[00:45:11 – 00:45:13] I mean, you guys may be right on top of it here.

[00:45:13 – 00:45:18] A lot of places, it’s just sort of thrown out like a little, little throwaway word, you know.

[00:45:18 – 00:45:20] You know, you ought to be sure you get a sponsor.

[00:45:20 – 00:45:37] Well, that’s a, a real stretch for somebody that’s just coming in off the street or what have you, and they’re trying to figure out what is it you mean, number one, and how would you go about it, and how do you get enough of, of self-confidence to even ask somebody, you know.

[00:45:37 – 00:45:39] That, that’s a stretch.

[00:45:39 – 00:45:48] In a group, you’ll come a lot closer, as a rule, to having a well-devel- well-developed program of sponsorship.

[00:45:48 – 00:45:54] Like in our home group, we announce it at the meeting, and we’ve got a list of people who are ready to be sponsors.

[00:45:54 – 00:46:01] We’ve got a newcomer program that does a good job of getting people prepared and informed about how to do it.

[00:46:01 – 00:46:04] Uh, we use a simple little thing.

[00:46:04 – 00:46:15] We call it temporary sponsorship, and it has a specific job description and a specific term, 60 days, and what we want to get accomplished in that thing is a number of things.

[00:46:15 – 00:46:23] Uh, probably 18 activities we want to get, about meetings, about contact, about what sponsorship is, how to get a permanent sponsor.

[00:46:23 – 00:46:24] So it’s…

[00:46:24 – 00:46:31] it’ll, it’ll tend to come up with a much more thoughtful, workable plan for, for delivering sponsorship.

[00:46:31 – 00:46:33] That’s important to me.

[00:46:33 – 00:46:37] The, the last thing I…

[00:46:37 – 00:46:40] and I don’t know if we’ll, we’ll be on time or not, but we’ll…

[00:46:40 – 00:46:43] it, it won’t matter where we do it, I don’t think.

[00:46:43 – 00:46:44] Will it, Al?

[00:46:44 – 00:46:44] No.

[00:46:44 – 00:46:45] If we do it right here?

[00:46:45 – 00:46:46] Okay.

[00:46:46 – 00:46:53] Um, my commitment, yeah, my…

[00:46:53 – 00:47:12] one of my commitments, self-imposed, is that I want to do everything I can to ensure that the next man, woman, boy or girl who walks into a group where I am gets as good as I was given.

[00:47:12 – 00:47:16] How could I justify anything else, yeah?

[00:47:16 – 00:47:21] Man, I was, I was given a wonderful reception in Alcoholics Anonymous.

[00:47:21 – 00:47:35] I mean, nobody singled me out and made a hero out of me, but I was given a wonderful introduction to this program by caring people who, who very thoughtfully pushed me into the, the things that I needed to do.

[00:47:35 – 00:47:42] And, and so my commitment is that I want to be sure the next person comes in, gets something equal to that.

[00:47:42 – 00:47:49] For that reason, when, uh, my home group is where I do my most important work.

[00:47:49 – 00:47:53] I do a lot of stuff like this all over the world, but that…

[00:47:53 – 00:48:03] but my most important work is my home group because what I do at my home group, I just kind of hang out and look for drunks, yeah.

[00:48:03 – 00:48:07] Now I’m looking for folk that come in looking like a whipped dog, you know.

[00:48:07 – 00:48:09] So I, I want fresh meat.

[00:48:09 – 00:48:15] And so when they come in that door, if that dude looks like he’s a troubled soul, I’m gonna be on him.

[00:48:15 – 00:48:18] Man, I’m gonna be on that sucker like a tiger.

[00:48:18 – 00:48:21] And, uh, chasing…

[00:48:21 – 00:48:28] One, I had a guy come in one night, and, uh, I guess he saw me coming and, and he le- and he left.

[00:48:28 – 00:48:33] He left, and he went out, and I went behind him, you know.

[00:48:33 – 00:48:36] So, and I was chasing him around the church.

[00:48:36 – 00:48:39] I mean, I thought he might be having an episode or something.

[00:48:39 – 00:48:40] I wasn’t that desperate for a drunk.

[00:48:40 – 00:48:47] But I didn’t know what was wrong with him, you know, and he’s running- Around the bushes and everything around, and I’m right behind him like an idiot.

[00:48:47 – 00:48:48] Finally caught him.

[00:48:48 – 00:48:54] He, he just wasn’t somebody that could handle a whole lot of howdy do, you know?

[00:48:54 – 00:48:56] So I had to hold him to talk to him.

[00:48:56 – 00:49:08] And, uh, he was a rough case that, uh, unfortunately he, he didn’t make it and, uh, shot himself in, in, in, in, in the, in the face.

[00:49:08 – 00:49:10] So you never know what, what you’re dealing with, you know?

[00:49:10 – 00:49:11] Sometimes it…

[00:49:11 – 00:49:11] that’ll work.

[00:49:11 – 00:49:13] But, but that’s what I want to do.

[00:49:13 – 00:49:16] When I meet a newcomer, I wanna really meet them.

[00:49:16 – 00:49:21] Now, I don’t wanna just let them te- mumble their name and I’m looking off over their head.

[00:49:21 – 00:49:23] I don’t wanna do that.

[00:49:23 – 00:49:24] I wanna pay attention to them.

[00:49:24 – 00:49:26] I wanna look them in the eye.

[00:49:26 – 00:49:28] I wanna hear what they say.

[00:49:28 – 00:49:35] I wanna communicate as effectively as I can that they’re in the right place.

[00:49:35 – 00:49:39] They don’t have to prove anything to anybody or explain anything to anybody.

[00:49:39 – 00:49:40] They’re in the right place.

[00:49:40 – 00:49:41] Come on in.

[00:49:41 – 00:49:42] Come on in.

[00:49:42 – 00:49:48] And make them know that they’re where they belong, if they are where they belong.

[00:49:48 – 00:49:52] If not, I wanna give them loving directions to where they need to be.

[00:49:52 – 00:49:54] Uh, that…

[00:49:54 – 00:49:56] I’ll tell you how that works in re-real life.

[00:49:56 – 00:49:57] I was in, uh…

[00:49:57 – 00:49:59] One night I had somebody come in.

[00:49:59 – 00:50:05] There was a guy, and it was obvious that he was, uh, he was, uh, one jump ahead of the sheriff or something.

[00:50:05 – 00:50:09] And he had his fiancée by the arm.

[00:50:09 – 00:50:12] Now, he was trying to prove to his fian…

[00:50:12 – 00:50:13] It was obvious what he was doing.

[00:50:13 – 00:50:16] He was trying to prove to his fiancée that he was really going to AA.

[00:50:16 – 00:50:21] And so I saw him in the hall, and I went up and introduced myself and, uh, so I just…

[00:50:21 – 00:50:26] and said to, “You guys coming to AA?” And, and, uh, the guy said, “Yeah.” Said, “Yeah, I’m an alcoholic.

[00:50:26 – 00:50:29] I’m coming.” And he said, “She’s not, but she’s coming with me.” I said, “No.

[00:50:29 – 00:50:32] Now let me tell you how this works,” ’cause it was a closed meeting.

[00:50:32 – 00:50:35] And I said, “Let me tell you how this works.

[00:50:35 – 00:50:36] We’ve…

[00:50:36 – 00:50:38] There’s an Al-Anon family group right down the hall.

[00:50:38 – 00:50:42] I’ll take her down there and intro…” He said, “No, no, no.

[00:50:42 – 00:50:47] No, don’t take her.” So he’s got her by one arm, and I got her by the other one, and the poor girl’s standing there.

[00:50:47 – 00:50:55] I said, “You go in there, she goes down here.” You know, so I had to just forcibly pull them apart.

[00:50:55 – 00:50:55] Yeah.

[00:50:55 – 00:50:58] And, uh, so I got her down to the family thing.

[00:50:58 – 00:51:04] All, all, all the time during the meeting, he kept looking at the door, you know, wanting to make sure that somebody gave a good report on him or something.

[00:51:04 – 00:51:11] But, but it’s, it’s just that kind of thing, you know, of, of, uh, of helping people get where they need to.

[00:51:11 – 00:51:28] If an addict comes in who’s not really an alcoholic, uh, at a minimum, at a minimum, if an addict comes to Alcoholics Anonymous, I think what he needs to get is a warm and understanding welcome and guidance to the right place.

[00:51:28 – 00:51:41] I don’t ever wanna see an AA meeting become some hostile environment where people get publicly humiliated and dealt with publicly on a, on a sensitive issue like that.

[00:51:41 – 00:51:43] Out of God, we can do better.

[00:51:43 – 00:51:44] Yeah, we can do better.

[00:51:44 – 00:51:48] And so those are just simple things.

[00:51:48 – 00:51:58] If, if I really want AA to be a warm and welcoming and healing kind of an environment, those are just some of the considerations that, that I have about that.

[00:51:58 – 00:52:10] Now, when we come back, we’ll broaden a little bit and, and then shift over to the group and maybe even extend to the fellowship at large a bit.

[00:52:10 – 00:52:17] But, but, but move into a little different, uh, not different, but just a different, uh, uh, exploration of it.

[00:52:17 – 00:52:25] I’d like to tell you it’s different, but, but it, it’s, it’s sort of routine for me to, to get deeper into the first thing than I…

[00:52:25 – 00:52:26] and then not leave much time for the rest.

[00:52:26 – 00:52:30] We’ll try to do three things.

[00:52:30 – 00:52:38] One is just kind of rush through the group stuff and then, just for the fun of it, talk about developing a group.

[00:52:38 – 00:52:41] How do you, how do you make a good, strong group work?

[00:52:41 – 00:52:44] I’m gonna use my own for an example ’cause I know that one better.

[00:52:44 – 00:52:47] And, uh, and then deal with the, with the question stuff.

[00:52:47 – 00:52:48] We got some in there.

[00:52:48 – 00:52:54] When– And I’ll j- I’ll just run through these headline style ’cause I do feel like I’m saying a lot to the choir.

[00:52:54 – 00:52:56] The, uh…

[00:52:56 – 00:53:02] When you look at a group from a standpoint of the values of the group, it’s the basic unit of service.

[00:53:02 – 00:53:04] Fundamental thing in Alcoholics Anonymous.

[00:53:04 – 00:53:26] I tell you this, of all the things that I’m worried about in Alcoholics Anonymous, and I, I have a lot of concerns about stuff in the fellowship, probably you do too, the biggest concern that I have is the overwhelming proliferation of lightweight meetings and the decline of strong, purposeful groups.

[00:53:26 – 00:53:41] That’s my biggest concern because as we move into the more and more informal structure, we start to get some real challenges about leadership, about how we deal with, with, with, with, with fundamental troubling questions.

[00:53:41 – 00:53:44] Hard to do a group conscience in a bus station.

[00:53:44 – 00:53:50] And a lot of times when you got a casual gathering, there is no group conscience.

[00:53:50 – 00:53:55] You might have a snap opinion poll of a group of people, but, but you won’t have a group conscience in a meeting.

[00:53:55 – 00:54:04] So as we move more and more in that direction, we, we start to starve the things that produce the strength and vitality in the program.

[00:54:04 – 00:54:05] And I’m concerned.

[00:54:05 – 00:54:07] You know, it’s a thing like reaching out to members.

[00:54:07 – 00:54:09] Uh, reaching out- Members.

[00:54:09 – 00:54:15] Those things start to die as you start to move away from the, the real planful kinda program of action.

[00:54:15 – 00:54:18] So it’s, it’s a basic unit.

[00:54:18 – 00:54:21] A, a group will tend to have a GSR.

[00:54:21 – 00:54:30] And a GSR is, is often described as the most important job in AA, and I think the reason for it is what legitimizes our relationship to the fellowship.

[00:54:30 – 00:54:34] Without it, we’re just a free-floating group of drunks.

[00:54:34 – 00:54:42] But the GSR is what ties us in and makes us part of the whole, and so a group will be much more likely to do that kinda thing.

[00:54:42 – 00:54:44] It’s an entity.

[00:54:44 – 00:54:45] It’s a resource, you know?

[00:54:45 – 00:54:52] It’s a, it’s an identifiable thing where you can ask for s- service, and you’ll stand a good chance of getting it in, in a, in a group.

[00:54:52 – 00:54:56] So it becomes an entity, a real thing and not just a casual thing.

[00:54:56 – 00:55:04] Trouble with a meeting is that the typical meeting value is limited to the one hour of the meeting.

[00:55:04 – 00:55:07] Nothing precedes it or follows it.

[00:55:07 – 00:55:07] Yeah?

[00:55:07 – 00:55:10] It’s just sort of a gathering, and then it disappears.

[00:55:10 – 00:55:15] Probably did no harm, but what does it do in terms of the overall contribution to AA?

[00:55:15 – 00:55:19] Um…

[00:55:19 – 00:55:29] I’m just gonna pick out a couple over here that I wanna mention, and we’ll get into that other thing.

[00:55:29 – 00:55:50] Uh, well, yeah, I think I will j- I’ll just quit with that, and then maybe we’ll come back to it if we have any more time ’cause I wanna, I wanna j- talk a little bit about put– because if you’re somebody that has concern about that or if you’re trying to advise somebody, I, I’ll just share this experience for whatever it’s worth, and then I think in the course of it kind of make the prob- uh, the, the, make the

[00:55:50 – 00:55:56] case for what I think a, a group, uh, can con- how a group can be of maximum service.

[00:55:56 – 00:55:58] We had a…

[00:55:58 – 00:56:04] I started a few years back doing a Big Book, intensive Big Book workshops with people.

[00:56:04 – 00:56:08] Now, I’m not talking about studies or teaching or anything like that.

[00:56:08 – 00:56:17] I’m talking about taking people through the book, doing the actions that are laid out in the book, and I’ll tell you, it’s the finest work I have ever been involved in.

[00:56:17 – 00:56:23] In, in, in my time in Alcoholics Anonymous, that’s the most effective thing I’ve ever seen.

[00:56:23 – 00:56:37] It makes me nervous every time I say it, but, but there’s, uh, never been one person who’s gone through the entire thing, and I’m talking about the whole process, never been one person who’s drunk again.

[00:56:37 – 00:56:49] I just believe, you know, like sometimes modern language says that slips or relapse are an expectation that is predictable.

[00:56:49 – 00:56:54] I say that slips or relapses are an aberration.

[00:56:54 – 00:56:56] They don’t happen.

[00:56:56 – 00:57:02] If I am actively doing the things that are laid out in the program, they don’t happen.

[00:57:02 – 00:57:05] And so what happens when folks get intensively involved…

[00:57:05 – 00:57:08] Anyway, I don’t, I won’t go into all of that, but very effective work.

[00:57:08 – 00:57:15] And I s- I started, did a couple, and then over, over, over time you build a…

[00:57:15 – 00:57:32] When people go through an intense experience like that, some of y’all I know have, when you go through an intense experience, it’s kinda like, “Well, I’m all pumped up and don’t know where to go,” because the average group is not an adequate vehicle for the energy, you know?

[00:57:32 – 00:57:37] And so guys feel like they’re sort of withering on the vine and, uh, going brain dead.

[00:57:37 – 00:57:46] And so we started building up some folk, and, and I was the founder of the group I was in, you know, so I was reluctant to even consider doing something different.

[00:57:46 – 00:57:57] And but some guys, uh, uh, and gals that had been through the workshops started saying, “Man, we need a place where we can do our thing,” you know, where we can do the work more effectively.

[00:57:57 – 00:58:03] And, and so I finally thought about it, and I said, “Well, shoot.” You know, the group I was in had sort of found its niche.

[00:58:03 – 00:58:08] It was, it was doing well, and it was, uh, had a good, good, good kind of a place going.

[00:58:08 – 00:58:12] I said, “Well, shoot, I’ll do it.” And so we, we decided to do one.

[00:58:12 – 00:58:27] And I, I’ll just walk you through this real quick that I told g- I told the folks when, when we first met that if they were interested in doing a real group, count me in.

[00:58:27 – 00:58:34] If they were just interested in doing another meeting, count me out because I have no interest in doing that.

[00:58:34 – 00:58:37] And so we, we did.

[00:58:37 – 00:58:39] We, we pulled together a group.

[00:58:39 – 00:58:42] There were 10 people, nine guys and one girl.

[00:58:42 – 00:58:48] And so we pulled together, and we, we, we met in the back of a guy’s place of business.

[00:58:48 – 00:58:51] It wasn’t a meeting, an AA meeting.

[00:58:51 – 00:58:52] It was an organizational meeting.

[00:58:52 – 00:58:58] So we met for the purpose of deciding do we really wanna do this.

[00:58:58 – 00:58:59] Well, that was almost a no-brainer.

[00:58:59 – 00:59:01] I mean, that’s what we were meeting about, was how to do it.

[00:59:01 – 00:59:13] But I think it’s important for folks to say, “Yeah, I wanna do that.” And, uh, we also decided to throw in 20 bucks a piece to handle any kind of crank up stuff that happened, and said we’d take it back.

[00:59:13 – 00:59:15] Nobody ever did, but it didn’t matter.

[00:59:15 – 00:59:18] The, uh, so we wanna do it.

[00:59:18 – 00:59:20] And if so, what kind of group?

[00:59:20 – 00:59:24] And, uh, now that was a critically important thing to me.

[00:59:24 – 00:59:30] I was chairing it, and, uh, the, uh, I don’t know if you’re familiar with brainstorming.

[00:59:30 – 00:59:34] I’m a great believer- Or in brainstorming.

[00:59:34 – 00:59:40] Mainly because my first thought is usually the best it gets.

[00:59:40 – 00:59:41] I mean, yeah.

[00:59:41 – 00:59:46] And, and if I start rethinking it, what I do is screw it up and complicate it.

[00:59:46 – 00:59:47] Yeah.

[00:59:47 – 00:59:50] But my first thought is what I really think.

[00:59:50 – 00:59:51] Yeah.

[00:59:51 – 00:59:56] And then I can chase it around for two hours and ultimately, almost always come back to where I left off.

[00:59:56 – 01:00:00] And so I like that, and it’s quick.

[01:00:00 – 01:00:02] You get stuff done.

[01:00:02 – 01:00:06] You don’t get bogged down in mindless discussions and ad infinitum.

[01:00:06 – 01:00:09] So I, I love that style of doing stuff.

[01:00:09 – 01:00:17] And so I said, “Guys, you wanna do a brainstorming thing on it?” “Yeah, yeah, yeah, we’ll do it, whatever it is.” So this– Now, what kind of a group?

[01:00:17 – 01:00:28] And the question was, uh, when you’re thinking about a group, identify one quality or component that you would insist on having.

[01:00:28 – 01:00:32] What do you gotta have in there for it to be the kind of group you want?

[01:00:32 – 01:00:38] And, now, when you’re leading something, I always think, down south we call it priming the pump.

[01:00:38 – 01:00:43] I don’t know if you do that in Utah, but yeah, I mean, pri– If your pump won’t go, pull some water and then you pump it.

[01:00:43 – 01:00:44] So, so I always do that.

[01:00:44 – 01:00:48] So I threw out the first one just to prime the pump, and I put structure.

[01:00:48 – 01:00:49] Yeah.

[01:00:49 – 01:00:50] Because it’s important.

[01:00:50 – 01:00:53] That’s what, that’s what you start putting together, a structure.

[01:00:53 – 01:00:57] I love structure because it lets you relax and take care of business.

[01:00:57 – 01:01:02] When you decide how you’re gonna do it, then you can switch to the quality dimension of what you’re gonna do.

[01:01:02 – 01:01:08] If you don’t have your parameters understood, you’re always testing and uneasy and anxious about what to do.

[01:01:08 – 01:01:11] So once you put that to rest, you know what you’re operating in.

[01:01:11 – 01:01:15] So I put structure, and then it, it just sort of caught on.

[01:01:15 – 01:01:25] In 12 minutes, 12 minutes, we identified 19 components that we absolutely insisted on having.

[01:01:25 – 01:01:32] I arbitrarily, later, uh, added a 20th one, just I didn’t like 19 as a number.

[01:01:32 – 01:01:35] So I stuck on, stuck on rule 62.

[01:01:35 – 01:01:40] Don’t take yourself too damn seriously.

[01:01:40 – 01:01:45] And, uh, and that’s a great one to have, you know, because humor is a lot of our treatment.

[01:01:45 – 01:01:47] That’s a lot of our treatment.

[01:01:47 – 01:01:53] That’s not frivolity, but, but really a good old gut laugh, you know, that just has a lot of therapeutic value.

[01:01:53 – 01:01:57] So we started naming them, and they were fairly predictable.

[01:01:57 – 01:02:00] Things I, I really regret that I packed in such a hurry.

[01:02:00 – 01:02:01] I had to go to…

[01:02:01 – 01:02:03] Where’d we go to buy my stuff?

[01:02:03 – 01:02:04] Target.

[01:02:04 – 01:02:04] Yeah.

[01:02:04 – 01:02:06] I took my wife’s suitcase, didn’t know how to park it.

[01:02:06 – 01:02:10] I left half my stuff, including my group stuff.

[01:02:10 – 01:02:11] Oh.

[01:02:11 – 01:02:13] I’ll tell you from memory about it as much as I can.

[01:02:13 – 01:02:21] Uh, newcomers be given a s- a s- a s- a sound introduction to AA.

[01:02:21 – 01:02:27] Not a warm welcome, but will be given a sound introduction to AA.

[01:02:27 – 01:02:33] I, I’ll tell you in a minute what that led to in terms of making that goal come alive, that, that objective come alive, alive.

[01:02:33 – 01:02:37] Uh, people who come to this group be given a warm, friendly welcome.

[01:02:37 – 01:02:38] I don’t care who it is.

[01:02:38 – 01:02:41] If it’s the sheriff coming in to raid us, y’all, he’s gonna get hugged first.

[01:02:41 – 01:02:43] Then he’d put the handcuffs on.

[01:02:43 – 01:02:47] But, but everybody coming in that door is gonna be made to feel welcome.

[01:02:47 – 01:02:52] And if they got a hand and they don’t want it shook, they better hide or do like that other guy and run around the bushes somewhere.

[01:02:52 – 01:02:55] But they’re gonna get welcomed.

[01:02:55 – 01:03:01] And, uh, conference-approved literature will be used in, in, in all of our meetings.

[01:03:01 – 01:03:05] Our meetings will be focused and stay on track.

[01:03:05 – 01:03:07] That’s something we want to happen.

[01:03:07 – 01:03:11] We’re not gonna start talking about step three and wind up talking about somebody’s mom-in-law.

[01:03:11 – 01:03:13] You know, we’re gonna stay on step three.

[01:03:13 – 01:03:15] We’re gonna stay focused on that.

[01:03:15 – 01:03:23] Uh, commitments will be kept.

[01:03:23 – 01:03:27] You know, that we had decided we wanted to be an action-oriented group.

[01:03:27 – 01:03:29] We believed that action’s the magic word.

[01:03:29 – 01:03:33] And so we said that commitments would be kept.

[01:03:33 – 01:03:42] If you said you were gonna do something and you had a root canal, couldn’t do it, then we’d be darn sure that you’d just say to somebody, “I can’t go.

[01:03:42 – 01:03:46] Somebody pinch hit.” And so what, what we’re saying is, you’re not by yourself.

[01:03:46 – 01:03:51] We’re gonna, as a group, you take that commitment, you’re taking it collectively with us.

[01:03:51 – 01:03:54] So commitments would be kept.

[01:03:54 – 01:03:58] Um, God, I can’t remember all those things there.

[01:03:58 – 01:04:00] The, uh- Newcomer …

[01:04:00 – 01:04:01] the newcomer thing.

[01:04:01 – 01:04:08] Uh, it was, and ser- a service thing, that s- our service activities will be supported by the group.

[01:04:08 – 01:04:14] You know, all too often what happens when we get somebody to go into service, we expect them to sponsor themselves.

[01:04:14 – 01:04:16] And, uh, I, I learned the hard way.

[01:04:16 – 01:04:25] I, for a lot of years when, when, when I started making honest money, I’d, uh, I would not take reimbursement for service.

[01:04:25 – 01:04:30] Uh, you know, like if I’d drive somewhere to an assembly or something like that, I wouldn’t take the money.

[01:04:30 – 01:04:35] And I was as, as honest and pure as I could was capable of being.

[01:04:35 – 01:04:40] I thought I was doing the right thing, that I didn’t really need the money.

[01:04:40 – 01:04:43] It wasn’t that much of a sacrifice, and so I just did it.

[01:04:43 – 01:04:47] And then one day it dawned on me that that was not a generous act.

[01:04:47 – 01:04:50] That was a very selfish act.

[01:04:50 – 01:04:53] Didn’t mean for it to be, but it was.

[01:04:53 – 01:04:59] See, what I did was let myself be the guy who’s the message carrier and shut the rest- To the group out.

[01:04:59 – 01:05:01] He’s a lone ranger.

[01:05:01 – 01:05:07] The first time I ever took a, a reimbursement check for mileage, it…

[01:05:07 – 01:05:10] I was so embarrassed I didn’t know what to do, you know?

[01:05:10 – 01:05:13] But I, I t- I take it now because that’s the right thing, you know?

[01:05:13 – 01:05:16] It’s just like somebody paid my expense to come to Utah.

[01:05:16 – 01:05:18] Heck, I can’t afford to come into Utah.

[01:05:18 – 01:05:22] You know, if you’re gonna get a party, you want somebody to come to North Carolina, fine.

[01:05:22 – 01:05:25] Plane ticket is what that takes to do that.

[01:05:25 – 01:05:27] That’s self-support.

[01:05:27 – 01:05:33] And so what we said was our service folk, if somebody’s gonna go out and do a presentation, we don’t expect them to provide their own literature.

[01:05:33 – 01:05:36] That’s supplied by the group, you know?

[01:05:36 – 01:05:39] And so it makes it a group process, you know?

[01:05:39 – 01:05:42] Um, I, I wish I could…

[01:05:42 – 01:05:55] B- but anybody that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s, g- gonna take a look at doing that, uh, uh, is doing something with a group, you’d like to look at any of these ideas, I’d be happy, I’d be real happy to send them by e- email.

[01:05:55 – 01:06:00] But for folks that don’t have email, I’m gonna lick a stamp.

[01:06:00 – 01:06:04] And, uh, tell you, I licked as many stamps.

[01:06:04 – 01:06:06] I thought my tongue was that long from licking stamps.

[01:06:06 – 01:06:09] But I do email now.

[01:06:09 – 01:06:10] I readily do that.

[01:06:10 – 01:06:15] But, but anyway, I’d, I would be happy to, to, to, to mail that stuff to anybody who wants to take a look at it.

[01:06:15 – 01:06:23] And, uh, so we started, started just filling those things out, you know, with 20 things that we thought were critically important to happen.

[01:06:23 – 01:06:28] That’s eight years ago now, and we’ve not changed them because, well, they’re fundamental things.

[01:06:28 – 01:06:28] They’re…

[01:06:28 – 01:06:30] Nothing’s gonna change much about that.

[01:06:30 – 01:06:31] They’re fundamental things.

[01:06:31 – 01:06:34] Those became what we called our goals.

[01:06:34 – 01:06:37] That’s not a great name for it, but that’s what we call it.

[01:06:37 – 01:06:39] This is what we want our group to do.

[01:06:39 – 01:06:46] I tell you, if you ever struggle with a group inventory, you imagine how that simplifies a group inventory.

[01:06:46 – 01:06:51] We don’t have to make up questions or get some out of some old grapevine or something.

[01:06:51 – 01:06:53] We, uh, w- we got our goals.

[01:06:53 – 01:06:57] All we gotta do is say, “How are we doing?” How are we doing that?

[01:06:57 – 01:07:03] And, uh, so, so we went through all that and, and, and, and got that.

[01:07:03 – 01:07:04] That was critically important.

[01:07:04 – 01:07:09] The third thing we did that night was, uh, so, so if we’re gonna do it, let’s get a place.

[01:07:09 – 01:07:11] We said on that…

[01:07:11 – 01:07:15] In fact, we said on our goals that, uh, that our meeting place would be barrier-free.

[01:07:15 – 01:07:21] We had somebody drop down the stairs one time in a wheelchair in a, in a group.

[01:07:21 – 01:07:23] Oh, I never forgot that.

[01:07:23 – 01:07:25] So we wanted to be barrier-free.

[01:07:25 – 01:07:26] Thank God we did.

[01:07:26 – 01:07:31] The first night we met, gal came in in a wheelchair.

[01:07:31 – 01:07:34] So those goals served…

[01:07:34 – 01:07:35] Excuse me.

[01:07:35 – 01:07:36] It served a real purpose.

[01:07:36 – 01:07:45] And so when we finished the meeting, we had two guys identified, go find a place to this criteria.

[01:07:45 – 01:07:49] So that meeting was done, and we met one more time.

[01:07:49 – 01:07:51] 10 people.

[01:07:51 – 01:07:57] So we’re sitting there talking about all the kinds of stuff we can do.

[01:07:57 – 01:08:04] One of our unwritten goals was we wanted everybody in the, in the group to be able to have a job if they were willing to take one.

[01:08:04 – 01:08:09] And, and even if they weren’t willing, they’d get one if they weren’t careful.

[01:08:09 – 01:08:15] You know, but we wanted everybody to have a job, preferably that one that took them out of the group.

[01:08:15 – 01:08:22] I mean, we’ve got to do the fundamental things in the group but, but preferably something that’s broadened their world a little bit, took them out into the world.

[01:08:22 – 01:08:32] So we, uh, decided to set up committees to do the work.

[01:08:32 – 01:08:43] You know, who, who was just talking about, about the, uh, the outreach stuff of, of not, of, uh, of not being aggressive enough in, in dealing with people and then really- …

[01:08:43 – 01:08:45] in, in, in bringing people into AA.

[01:08:45 – 01:08:46] It, it…

[01:08:46 – 01:08:52] I was real pleased to hear something here yesterday about a district PI activity.

[01:08:52 – 01:08:56] I was pleased to hear that because you don’t hear that much.

[01:08:56 – 01:09:09] You know, what we’ve done over the last number of years has been darn near quit those things, where we start actively trying to carry the message to alcoholics, not just grudgingly let them hear it when they show up.

[01:09:09 – 01:09:13] But the, the things that cause us to reach out and, and do…

[01:09:13 – 01:09:15] Those things just darn near stopped.

[01:09:15 – 01:09:18] Uh, so we, we started to put committees together.

[01:09:18 – 01:09:20] What are these folks gonna do?

[01:09:20 – 01:09:23] And, and so we named, uh, you could name the committees probably.

[01:09:23 – 01:09:27] CPC, you know, cooperation with professional community.

[01:09:27 – 01:09:29] Public information.

[01:09:29 – 01:09:32] Treatment facility coordination.

[01:09:32 – 01:09:34] Correctional facility coordination.

[01:09:34 – 01:09:39] Fundamental services of, of Alcoholics Anonymous have been here ever since day one.

[01:09:39 – 01:09:41] Oh, they weren’t named, but they’ve been here.

[01:09:41 – 01:09:45] And, uh, then we added a few.

[01:09:45 – 01:09:52] You know, the, the, the regular officers, the general service reps and the chair and the secretary and treasurer, you know, stuff like that.

[01:09:52 – 01:09:55] Uh, w- we set up a newcomer committee.

[01:09:55 – 01:10:01] Uh, we, we said we wanted to give a solid introduction to newcomers, so we set up a newcomer committee.

[01:10:01 – 01:10:05] And a literature committee, so that we kept up to date.

[01:10:05 – 01:10:09] We were gonna publish a newsletter, which we do, and, uh, so we set…

[01:10:09 – 01:10:10] had a newsletter.

[01:10:10 – 01:10:11] So we merged newsletter.

[01:10:11 – 01:10:20] Well, when we got through, and, and, and I’ll send you that too if it’s got a little diagram of it, of, of, of, of that, what that looked like.

[01:10:20 – 01:10:22] We had 10 committees.

[01:10:24 – 01:10:32] Well, one of the brilliant alcoholics at the table said, “Now where are we gonna get people for these committees?” I said, “It is no problem.

[01:10:32 – 01:10:35] I have trouble to count ahead.

[01:10:35 – 01:10:43] They’re all filled.” He said, “What are you talking about, fool?” I said, “Well, there’s 10 of us, 10 of them.

[01:10:43 – 01:10:45] Everybody take a committee.

[01:10:45 – 01:10:47] They’re all full.

[01:10:47 – 01:10:54] All you do now is add to the membership.” And that was like we were in business, day one.

[01:10:54 – 01:10:57] And, uh, so we’re ready to go.

[01:10:57 – 01:11:08] We, we schedule our first meeting, and I swear to God, I got no reason to lie to you, we never sent out a single announcement, telephone call or nothing.

[01:11:08 – 01:11:16] But like Merv Griffin or whoever that was said, “If you build it, they’ll come,” some- somebody said that.

[01:11:16 – 01:11:25] Our first meeting, we had 40 people at our first meeting, including the guy in the wheelchair.

[01:11:25 – 01:11:30] We had our state chair from Service Structure to speak at our first meeting.

[01:11:30 – 01:11:34] And, uh, so we were off and running.

[01:11:34 – 01:11:37] The next week we had to move.

[01:11:37 – 01:11:38] We didn’t have permission.

[01:11:38 – 01:11:42] We had to move, and we just bogarted the biggest room in the church.

[01:11:42 – 01:11:44] Down there we had the basement.

[01:11:44 – 01:11:48] And, uh, so we just bogarted the room, and didn’t ask permission.

[01:11:48 – 01:11:51] We, we figured we’d ask forgiveness and if we had to.

[01:11:51 – 01:11:53] So we just took it.

[01:11:53 – 01:11:56] And, uh, so we’re ready.

[01:11:56 – 01:12:01] And, uh, we meet twice a week, a closed meeting and an open meeting.

[01:12:01 – 01:12:09] You know, I really believe that Alcoholics Anonymous needs to have a real balance between open and closed meetings.

[01:12:09 – 01:12:15] You know, uh, uh, you know, I know that there are areas in this country that have no open meetings.

[01:12:15 – 01:12:16] None.

[01:12:16 – 01:12:24] I would really like for somebody to explain to me how the family ever gets involved if there’s nothing but closed meetings.

[01:12:24 – 01:12:30] We talk about a family illness and then let the family look from the fence at what we’re doing.

[01:12:30 – 01:12:41] You know, you know, I would submit to you that’s a real questionable kind of a, of a well-delivered program if we don’t even let our own folks that share our illness share in the solution, you know.

[01:12:41 – 01:12:43] So we have an open and closed meeting.

[01:12:43 – 01:12:53] I think it’s just a marvelous thing in those speaker meetings to watch couples, some of whom aren’t even speaking, kind of laughing together.

[01:12:53 – 01:12:55] Good thing, eh?

[01:12:55 – 01:12:56] Good thing.

[01:12:56 – 01:12:58] And, and so it’s just amazing.

[01:12:58 – 01:13:01] Th- so we have a closed meeting.

[01:13:01 – 01:13:13] When we, when we– On our closed meetings, what we do on Monday night is a big bunch of us gather, and we go through the general opening stuff, and then we break down into three groups.

[01:13:13 – 01:13:16] One, uh, two of them are closed.

[01:13:16 – 01:13:21] We have a closed topic discussion out of the literature.

[01:13:21 – 01:13:23] January, we’re starting the steps and tradition.

[01:13:23 – 01:13:24] We’re gonna be doing that.

[01:13:24 – 01:13:26] But we plan our meetings ahead.

[01:13:26 – 01:13:28] Our program committee is one of the committees we put in.

[01:13:28 – 01:13:31] We plan all of our meetings three months in advance.

[01:13:31 – 01:13:36] Topics, discussions, leaders, speakers.

[01:13:36 – 01:13:41] We’re booked now through March with all of our meetings, you know.

[01:13:41 – 01:13:47] So we take it seriously about having thoughtful meetings, and it’s not just say, “Let’s throw something together.

[01:13:47 – 01:13:50] It’s eight o’clock.” Um, so that’s what we do.

[01:13:50 – 01:13:54] We break up and then people go to wherever they, where they wanna go.

[01:13:54 – 01:14:02] We’ve nudged the newcomer meeting from three months up to a year, and I, I personally have a little bit of concern about that.

[01:14:02 – 01:14:06] That– I’m not sure I want somebody sitting in a newcomer’s meeting for a year.

[01:14:06 – 01:14:09] I like to get them to work quicker than that.

[01:14:09 – 01:14:11] I don’t want them sitting in there thinking too much.

[01:14:11 – 01:14:12] It’s dangerous.

[01:14:12 – 01:14:18] And so but anyway, we, we may revisit that sometime at, at one of our business meetings.

[01:14:18 – 01:14:21] But that’s basically what formed up.

[01:14:21 – 01:14:23] Um, I, I tell you, it’s funny how it works.

[01:14:23 – 01:14:32] See, the, uh, one day after we’d met for just a little while, the newcomer committee ch-chair, we were in a newcomer committee meeting.

[01:14:32 – 01:14:38] The, the committees meet once a month, and they do the planning within their, their, their autonomous little groups.

[01:14:38 – 01:14:43] Newcomer guy said, “We gotta do something.” He wasn’t a committee.

[01:14:43 – 01:14:44] That’s all he was.

[01:14:44 – 01:14:59] And, uh, said, “We’re not getting any newcomers.” And I said, “Well, start a newcomer meeting.” And he said, “You didn’t hear what I said.” He said, “We don’t have any newcomers.” I said, “Yeah, I heard that.

[01:14:59 – 01:15:05] Start a newcomer meeting.” He said, “Well, hell, that’s stupid,” you know.

[01:15:05 – 01:15:09] So I said, “Well, start one anyway,” you know.

[01:15:09 – 01:15:12] Now, we started a newcomer meeting.

[01:15:12 – 01:15:18] Sent out no announcements whatsoever, but the word gets out.

[01:15:18 – 01:15:25] The first night, forty-one people showed up for the newcomer meeting.

[01:15:25 – 01:15:34] Every facility in our region are hungry for a place to take their clients to learn something about AA.

[01:15:34 – 01:15:37] My God, this was manna from heaven.

[01:15:37 – 01:15:42] And so we just get flooded with newcomers, and so our problems were over.

[01:15:42 – 01:15:45] It was then a matter of trying to keep up with them, you know.

[01:15:45 – 01:15:49] And, and so it, it was, it’s just, it just, uh- An amazing thing.

[01:15:49 – 01:15:53] In that, in that group, we have…

[01:15:53 – 01:16:01] And, and we’re not the best group in the world, we’re just a good solid AA group that’s real action-oriented, and we’re a do-something group.

[01:16:01 – 01:16:04] We’re not a sit-around-and-talk-about-it group.

[01:16:04 – 01:16:07] We’re an action group.

[01:16:07 – 01:16:12] We sponsor four different prison groups.

[01:16:12 – 01:16:19] We have four commitments a week in treatment facilities and detox combined.

[01:16:19 – 01:16:25] Uh, three of them in one place in different settings, but one of them in a 28-day residential program.

[01:16:25 – 01:16:26] So we’ve got four of those.

[01:16:26 – 01:16:31] Um, active CPC PI committee.

[01:16:31 – 01:16:33] You know, these are all group level things.

[01:16:33 – 01:16:36] They’re, they’re not waiting on somebody from headquarters to come.

[01:16:36 – 01:16:37] These are group level things.

[01:16:37 – 01:16:42] Uh, our first, uh, C- our first CPC chair…

[01:16:42 – 01:16:44] 4:30?

[01:16:44 – 01:16:44] Is that what…

[01:16:44 – 01:16:47] Is that what time we quit?

[01:16:47 – 01:16:48] I know what time it is.

[01:16:48 – 01:16:49] I can tell today.

[01:16:49 – 01:16:50] Yeah.

[01:16:50 – 01:16:52] Well, it started a little late, so.

[01:16:52 – 01:16:52] Okay.

[01:16:52 – 01:16:53] All right.

[01:16:53 – 01:16:54] Well, he’ll tell me.

[01:16:54 – 01:16:55] Alan will tell me.

[01:16:55 – 01:16:56] He’s a vicious man.

[01:16:56 – 01:16:59] The, uh, C- the, the, uh…

[01:16:59 – 01:17:01] I’ll tell you about the CPC guy, yeah.

[01:17:01 – 01:17:03] Your talent’s where you find it.

[01:17:03 – 01:17:05] And, and I…

[01:17:05 – 01:17:06] There was a new…

[01:17:06 – 01:17:15] A young doc had moved into town, and he was an anesthesiologist, and he, he apparently had a, a propensity for confusing himself with the patient, you know?

[01:17:15 – 01:17:18] And- So he got a, he got a little goofy.

[01:17:18 – 01:17:23] And, uh, and so he was sober two years when he moved to our community.

[01:17:23 – 01:17:26] As I started sponsoring, uh, you talk about a fruit loop.

[01:17:26 – 01:17:28] This guy was a real fruit loop.

[01:17:28 – 01:17:33] He, I mean, he was a brilliant man, but hi- I mean, he couldn’t even find a landing field, you know?

[01:17:33 – 01:17:35] He, he was, he was really out there.

[01:17:35 – 01:17:42] And so he became our first CPC PI chair, and the guy was just wild, you know?

[01:17:42 – 01:17:45] And, and he was doing a radio program.

[01:17:45 – 01:17:49] He set up a weekly radio program with one of the local stations.

[01:17:49 – 01:17:51] And, uh, and I didn’t have time to mess with it.

[01:17:51 – 01:17:54] It was on Saturday, and I’m always gone, so I never had heard it.

[01:17:54 – 01:17:58] And, uh, one day I said, “Tell me about that radio program.

[01:17:58 – 01:18:00] How’s it going?” He said, “Oh man, it’s going great.

[01:18:00 – 01:18:01] Great.

[01:18:01 – 01:18:09] God, it’s great.” And I said, “Well, who you got going?” He had people with less than six months sobriety on the radio.

[01:18:09 – 01:18:12] I said, “Whoa, whoa.

[01:18:12 – 01:18:15] Jesus, man, what’s wrong with you?” And, and…

[01:18:15 – 01:18:16] But I mean, it was good.

[01:18:16 – 01:18:17] He was…

[01:18:17 – 01:18:17] He had it going.

[01:18:17 – 01:18:21] There was no tragedy, but it was high risk now, I’ll tell you that.

[01:18:21 – 01:18:25] And just did some great work, you know.

[01:18:25 – 01:18:28] And, and now he’s moved to Virginia, and he’s doing some good stuff up there.

[01:18:28 – 01:18:30] You know, and it’s just amazing how that grew.

[01:18:30 – 01:18:33] You know, we started doing a, a…

[01:18:33 – 01:18:38] Every year we’d do a, a, a segment of the law school.

[01:18:38 – 01:18:40] It’s about 40, 50 miles from our house.

[01:18:40 – 01:18:48] We’d do a session at the law school to help attorneys who are finishing up law school be prepared to deal with alcoholic clients.

[01:18:48 – 01:18:50] He d- he did, while…

[01:18:50 – 01:19:01] All the time he was in North Carolina, he did a session at Duke University School of Medicine telling young docs about how to deal with drunk patients, you know, and using himself for exhi- as exhibit A.

[01:19:01 – 01:19:03] And just great stuff.

[01:19:03 – 01:19:05] And it came out of that fruitcake.

[01:19:05 – 01:19:13] Uh, he came to me one night and, and he said, uh, “Can we do a television program?” And I said, “Are you nuts?

[01:19:13 – 01:19:17] Of course you can’t do a television program.” And he said, “Now, wait a minute.

[01:19:17 – 01:19:17] Wait a minute.

[01:19:17 – 01:19:27] I don’t mean of a meeting and, you know, showing people.” He said he was one of the, uh, community docs, you know, on the, on the local, local TV station.

[01:19:27 – 01:19:35] They do this, guy talks about hangnails and whatever, but they, but they, they get into this drill of stuff, and he did that.

[01:19:35 – 01:20:00] And he said, “What I wanna do is, is if you, if you think it’s okay, I wanna bring the cameraman, and we’ll set up the meeting with four members sitting with their backs to the camera and the steps and traditions up here so that it looks like a meeting.” I said, “I hate to tell you, boy, but that makes sense.

[01:20:00 – 01:20:02] That makes a lot…” And he did that.

[01:20:02 – 01:20:04] Did a great thing.

[01:20:04 – 01:20:04] You know?

[01:20:04 – 01:20:08] And so the members anonymously talked about the program, you know.

[01:20:08 – 01:20:10] But now I, I would’ve never thought about that probably.

[01:20:10 – 01:20:12] But you take this wild…

[01:20:12 – 01:20:16] You, you never know where talent is, where people will rise to the occasion.

[01:20:16 – 01:20:21] Got a former prison warden who coordinates our treatment facility stuff.

[01:20:21 – 01:20:22] Does a super job.

[01:20:22 – 01:20:24] Really super job.

[01:20:24 – 01:20:26] And so it, it, it…

[01:20:26 – 01:20:33] When you s- you start thinking about when you’re putting a group together, the group is gonna develop the people as we develop the group.

[01:20:33 – 01:20:36] And, and, and so that was just a powerful experience.

[01:20:36 – 01:20:46] You know, that process that I’ve just described, if I had to reduce it down to what its greatest value was, when we got through, we had a committed group of people.

[01:20:46 – 01:20:48] We had a group.

[01:20:48 – 01:20:50] Our group was formed before we ever met.

[01:20:50 – 01:20:59] And so that, that cohesive kind of commitment to a, to a program of action was a powerful thing.

[01:20:59 – 01:21:02] And, uh, we are…

[01:21:02 – 01:21:07] I think we’re eight years, we’re right at eight years so, uh, uh, in, in, as a group now.

[01:21:07 – 01:21:12] And I, in all honesty, we have never had a bad meeting.

[01:21:13 – 01:21:16] We’ve had some that people tried hard to make bad.

[01:21:16 – 01:21:24] But, uh, but, I mean, uh, when you’ve got a, a, a well-defined group, if somebody stumbles, somebody steps forward.

[01:21:24 – 01:21:31] Yeah, you’re not gonna be sitting there at meeting time saying, “Oh my God, what do we do?” Because we’ll anticipate that and move on it.

[01:21:31 – 01:21:34] And, uh, so but that happens in a group.

[01:21:34 – 01:21:37] It won’t happen in just a casual gathering, you know?

[01:21:37 – 01:21:38] And so we’ve never had a bad one.

[01:21:38 – 01:21:45] Now we’ve had some, some guys that just flat forget what they’re supposed to do, and, uh, and so we just step in and do it.

[01:21:45 – 01:21:47] And, and but that’s what happens in a thing like that.

[01:21:47 – 01:21:49] It’s a s- it’s a strong group.

[01:21:49 – 01:21:54] Now, not everybody’s gonna like a, a group like that.

[01:21:54 – 01:21:55] You know, we’re not a huge group.

[01:21:55 – 01:21:57] We’re a small group, but we’re frisky.

[01:21:57 – 01:22:02] And, uh, so everybody, ev- everybody’s not gonna like that.

[01:22:02 – 01:22:09] You know, we’re in sharp contrast to the, to the, the overwhelming preponderance of meetings in the area.

[01:22:09 – 01:22:13] Uh, some people who, who just c- Uh, I’ve heard it.

[01:22:13 – 01:22:17] I mean, I don’t pay attention to that, but some people say, “It’s like a school,” you know?

[01:22:17 – 01:22:19] Well, too bad.

[01:22:19 – 01:22:22] But we gonna keep on doing it.

[01:22:22 – 01:22:26] Uh, uh, and so it, it’s a strong group, you know.

[01:22:26 – 01:22:35] And when, when a group gets strong, I tell you, the thing we have to do is to deliberately hold back from dominating everything around.

[01:22:35 – 01:22:47] You know, like if we go into a district meeting, I mean, my God, we’re over half the attendance, and we have to plan to lose the elections and so that somebody else can get an opportunity to serve.

[01:22:47 – 01:22:50] It’s a, it’s a, it’s a tricky kind of a situation.

[01:22:50 – 01:22:56] I tell you the other thing that, that we have to be mindful about, and I said that I don’t belong to the best group in the world.

[01:22:56 – 01:22:59] I belong to a good group, but it’s not the best group in the world.

[01:22:59 – 01:23:01] I don’t want to belong to the best group in the world ’cause I don’t think there’s such a thing.

[01:23:01 – 01:23:04] You know, a group serves its purpose.

[01:23:04 – 01:23:12] And the way I look at it, a group is only as good as its product.

[01:23:12 – 01:23:13] And, and not…

[01:23:13 – 01:23:16] It’s not enough for me to say I belong to a strong group.

[01:23:16 – 01:23:22] I also have to take that one notch further and say, “Well, what kind of a neighbor are we?

[01:23:22 – 01:23:29] How do we react to the group next door?” You know, what kind of a neighbor are you?

[01:23:29 – 01:23:34] What do we do to, to help out with groups that may be struggling?

[01:23:34 – 01:23:42] You know, what do we do to, to, to, to try to add something to the solidity and, and integrity of, of, of AA?

[01:23:42 – 01:23:47] It, uh, it’s a little hard to get used to wh- you know, when something like this comes about.

[01:23:47 – 01:23:49] We elect…

[01:23:49 – 01:23:50] We had an intergroup chair.

[01:23:50 – 01:23:52] That was one of our officers, too, uh, in…

[01:23:52 – 01:23:53] No, an intergroup rep.

[01:23:53 – 01:24:04] And first guy we elected to the rep went down to the meet- to the intergroup meeting, and he started telling about s- some stuff we were doing, and he was talking about some PI activities.

[01:24:04 – 01:24:08] And, and the folk at the intergroup, they were not used to this.

[01:24:08 – 01:24:09] They’d never seen it.

[01:24:09 – 01:24:10] That’s why they weren’t used to it.

[01:24:10 – 01:24:19] They d- One guy called him down and said, “Don’t you know you can’t do that?” And he said, “What do you mean we can’t do it?

[01:24:19 – 01:24:20] We already are.” You know?

[01:24:20 – 01:24:22] They said, “Oh, no, no.

[01:24:22 – 01:24:30] It’s an anonymity break.” Uh, if you don’t practice those things, why would you be conversant with them?

[01:24:30 – 01:24:33] Why would you know about them, you know?

[01:24:33 – 01:24:51] And so nobody there had ever seen these things in action, so naturally, you know, when it emerges, they say, “What is this thing?” And then trying to understand how active reaching out to other alcoholics is as close to the heart of our principles as you can get, and they’re where you find them.

[01:24:51 – 01:24:53] You know, they’re where you find them.

[01:24:53 – 01:24:57] And so anyway, that, that’s why we were off and running with, with that stuff.

[01:24:57 – 01:24:59] And, and we’ve had a hoot.

[01:24:59 – 01:25:03] We’ve had a, a great time with that, with that group.

[01:25:03 – 01:25:08] Now, I shifted in that because I, I really do believe that, that one example is worth a thousand words.

[01:25:08 – 01:25:11] And so I, I just re…

[01:25:11 – 01:25:13] I mean, I’m not looking for business.

[01:25:13 – 01:25:14] Now, I don’t sell anything.

[01:25:14 – 01:25:19] But, but I, uh, as long as I don’t have to lick too many stamps, I’ll be glad to send whatever.

[01:25:19 – 01:25:20] We don’t have much.

[01:25:20 – 01:25:21] We didn’t publish a book or anything.

[01:25:21 – 01:25:24] We just got notes from that, you know, and that list to go.

[01:25:24 – 01:25:28] Any, any of that stuff if you’d, if you’d like to have, you can s- you can, you can if you want to.

[01:25:28 – 01:25:32] I can send it to Pete, and, and then he can duplicate it and make it easier.

[01:25:32 – 01:25:36] But, now, he’s got all my name, rank, serial number stuff and so feel free.

[01:25:36 – 01:25:38] Uh, you, you use it if you want to.

[01:25:38 – 01:25:42] Um, let me just run through a few of these ’cause I know we’re gonna run out of time.

[01:25:42 – 01:25:45] Group traditions.

[01:25:45 – 01:25:53] Do you know of any groups that have written group traditions, i.e., how and why they conduct the meetings the way they do?

[01:25:53 – 01:25:58] Let me, let me drop back on the second part to this.

[01:25:58 – 01:26:00] I know of one that I just visited.

[01:26:00 – 01:26:01] It’s in, um…

[01:26:01 – 01:26:04] What is that town in Oklahoma?

[01:26:04 – 01:26:06] It’s, um…

[01:26:06 – 01:26:07] Oh, God.

[01:26:07 – 01:26:09] Just a minute and I’ll think about it.

[01:26:09 – 01:26:12] It’s, um…

[01:26:12 – 01:26:13] Now, geez, I was just there.

[01:26:13 – 01:26:17] Oklahoma, 39 miles out of Oklahoma City.

[01:26:17 – 01:26:19] I’ll tell you in a minute.

[01:26:19 – 01:26:32] Let me go to the second part of that, and then I’ll come down, and there’s a wonderful little guy down there by the name of Todd Jackson, and they, they have written traditions, they call them, that have to do with the conduct of their group.

[01:26:32 – 01:26:33] And I’ve, I’ve been there.

[01:26:33 – 01:26:33] Okay.

[01:26:33 – 01:26:36] I spoke at their anniversary, and it’s, uh, it’s a solid group.

[01:26:36 – 01:26:41] I, I don’t mind- Tell you, I got a little nervous with wr- with a written constitution-looking thing.

[01:26:41 – 01:26:42] I got a little nervous with that.

[01:26:42 – 01:26:48] But at least it was well thought out, well presented, and he’s got it, uh, they’ve got it into a package.

[01:26:48 – 01:26:51] And, uh, you can, you can also…

[01:26:51 – 01:26:53] I, uh, I can send you the email stuff.

[01:26:53 – 01:26:56] I’ve got his address, so I can send it to him.

[01:26:56 – 01:27:04] And, uh, but if you’d like to take a look at that, it, it’s a well-done thing in that little town of Oklahoma.

[01:27:04 – 01:27:17] “How does your primary purpose home group communicate its processes to members and newcomers?” Every newcomer that comes into our group, and anybody else that wants it, is given a newcomer package.

[01:27:17 – 01:27:22] We put it together in a big old, uh, uh, brown envelope, and it…

[01:27:22 – 01:27:28] We put in a copy of our newsletter, copy of our goals, uh, and, and, you know, just it’s a little, a couple introductory pamphlets.

[01:27:28 – 01:27:31] And it may cost us a buck, you know, something like that.

[01:27:31 – 01:27:33] But every newcomer gets that in his hand.

[01:27:33 – 01:27:34] That’s the first thing he does.

[01:27:34 – 01:27:37] He gets the list of our members, you know, and, and so…

[01:27:37 – 01:27:40] And the temporary sponsorship there.

[01:27:40 – 01:27:41] I believe we put that in there.

[01:27:41 – 01:27:43] I’m not on that committee, but that’s, that’s what we do with it.

[01:27:43 – 01:27:44] That’s how we communicate it.

[01:27:44 – 01:27:45] Does it very well.

[01:27:45 – 01:27:49] We do that with every newcomer that comes in there, whether they want it or not.

[01:27:49 – 01:27:53] What is that town?

[01:27:53 – 01:27:54] I’ll c- I’ll come back.

[01:27:54 – 01:27:55] I’ll think of that town.

[01:27:55 – 01:27:56] It’s bugging me now.

[01:27:56 – 01:27:58] Town there.

[01:27:58 – 01:28:01] It’s funny, I remember the guy’s name, can’t remember the town I was in.

[01:28:01 – 01:28:04] “How do you break…

[01:28:04 – 01:28:10] How do you deal with control freaks in a home group?” Well, they mostly control me.

[01:28:10 – 01:28:13] I, they tolerate me.

[01:28:13 – 01:28:19] Control freak’s somebody who’s not doing it the way I want it done.

[01:28:19 – 01:28:22] Oh, it’s…

[01:28:22 – 01:28:28] Well, well, I mean, you gotta give, you gotta give a little slack to folk, you know?

[01:28:28 – 01:28:33] That, I, I know that you can’t get folks that’ll try to dominate.

[01:28:33 – 01:28:39] Now, if you ask that in my home group, they would answer seriously what I just did, what I, how I did.

[01:28:39 – 01:28:41] I don’t think I am, you know?

[01:28:41 – 01:28:48] Uh, I’m, I’m a reasonably aggressive fella, and that, and that, to the untrained eye, that looks like a control freak.

[01:28:48 – 01:28:55] But, but, but I really don’t think I am.

[01:28:55 – 01:29:04] I, I’m just the kind of guy, if, uh, if we sit there and something needs to be done, I’ll give about 30 seconds, and if they don’t move, I’ll do it.

[01:29:04 – 01:29:06] You know, I mean, that, I, I, I’m just geared that way.

[01:29:06 – 01:29:08] Uh, I tell you the downside of that.

[01:29:08 – 01:29:12] I read something that made me a little embarrassed about having that inclination.

[01:29:12 – 01:29:24] It s- it said, “People respond to me as I train them to do.” People respond to me as I train them to do.

[01:29:24 – 01:29:32] Guys in my group know, guys who I work with know, if they’ll just hesitate a little bit, “Get out of the way.

[01:29:32 – 01:29:33] Old Thomas is coming,” you know?

[01:29:33 – 01:29:35] So, so I train them.

[01:29:35 – 01:29:36] I can’t complain about it.

[01:29:36 – 01:29:38] I train them to do that.

[01:29:38 – 01:29:41] I train them to believe that because they know it’s so.

[01:29:41 – 01:29:52] And, uh, so it makes me sort of put a little pause sometimes in the quality of my leadership because just busting through the line is not necessarily leadership.

[01:29:52 – 01:29:58] I, I tell you what’s troubling, uh, uh, really trou- and I do, I give pause to this, not enough to slow down.

[01:29:58 – 01:30:03] But, but it gives me pause because a guy like me is hard to deal with.

[01:30:03 – 01:30:18] And not because I’m cantankerous, but when you’ve got the oldest guy in sight who also the most active guy in sight, that’s a little intimidating.

[01:30:18 – 01:30:19] A little intimidating.

[01:30:19 – 01:30:21] And so people…

[01:30:21 – 01:30:32] I mean, I, I tend to, to get, have a lot of passion about stuff, and people who have not thought out ideas real well are reluctant to say, “Wait a minute, I don’t really believe that’s right,” you know?

[01:30:32 – 01:30:33] They’ll be reluctant.

[01:30:33 – 01:30:45] And, uh, so it’s, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a difficult thing when you’re the oldest guy around to how to be active without overwhelming stuff, you know?

[01:30:45 – 01:30:47] And, and imposing your will on people.

[01:30:47 – 01:30:54] So it is something I have to, have to be mindful about because my group would say, uh, “How you control him?” Say, “Ask him.

[01:30:54 – 01:31:03] Right there he is, right?” I don’t know.

[01:31:03 – 01:31:07] You know, a, a group conscience is a, is a, is a powerful thing.

[01:31:07 – 01:31:09] A group…

[01:31:09 – 01:31:13] And I, and well, I’ll just say this, just for the no extra charge.

[01:31:13 – 01:31:19] I, I think a group conscience is one of the most misused terms in Alcoholics Anonymous.

[01:31:19 – 01:31:24] A lot of people use the term group conscience for a business meeting.

[01:31:24 – 01:31:27] There’s no c- that’s not even close to a group conscience.

[01:31:27 – 01:31:28] That’s a vote.

[01:31:28 – 01:31:29] That’s all that is.

[01:31:29 – 01:31:32] You, you take an issue and vote on it.

[01:31:32 – 01:31:38] A group conscience is when we go deeper into prayerful consideration of something that impacts our purpose.

[01:31:38 – 01:31:45] And, and so a group conscience is a powerful thing, you know, to watch it happen.

[01:31:45 – 01:31:52] You know, to watch it happen, where that group starts to think and develop a conscience over a major issue.

[01:31:52 – 01:31:57] I don’t like to waste the term group conscience on whether we’re gonna get decaf or regular.

[01:31:57 – 01:31:59] I, that’s not a group conscience.

[01:31:59 – 01:32:01] That’s just take a straw vote, you know?

[01:32:01 – 01:32:03] Geez, it’s all- is to it.

[01:32:03 – 01:32:11] But it, it, it really takes the aura away from a group conscience when you trivialize it with just normal routine operation stuff.

[01:32:11 – 01:32:17] And, but a group conscience is a great place to start dealing with issues like that.

[01:32:17 – 01:32:19] They’re tough to deal with.

[01:32:19 – 01:32:20] They’re tough to deal with.

[01:32:20 – 01:32:22] Uh, and, and because you…

[01:32:22 – 01:32:23] I mean, there’s no authority.

[01:32:23 – 01:32:26] I mean, how do you say I’m right and then this one’s wrong?

[01:32:26 – 01:32:28] There’s no real clear ground for that.

[01:32:28 – 01:32:30] The…

[01:32:30 – 01:32:34] I, I, I’ll tell you one that’s a little different, but it may have some application.

[01:32:34 – 01:32:39] Well, our group did a little workshop one time on working with others.

[01:32:39 – 01:32:47] And we dealt with four areas, if I can recall this right, of working with others.

[01:32:47 – 01:32:52] Uh, and we d- d- we set it up so we had four different leaders for the different things.

[01:32:52 – 01:32:55] First one was how do you do a 12-step call and how do you incorporate the family?

[01:32:55 – 01:32:58] There was a little lo- loop to that.

[01:32:58 – 01:33:04] Second was how do you help people deal with the baggage they bring in?

[01:33:04 – 01:33:05] Everybody brings something.

[01:33:05 – 01:33:10] It may be a snapping probation officer or a policeman or a warrant or a mad wife.

[01:33:10 – 01:33:12] Everybody brings baggage.

[01:33:12 – 01:33:16] And a lot of times very awkward about how to deal with it.

[01:33:16 – 01:33:19] And so how do we deal with the, the baggage?

[01:33:19 – 01:33:28] A little close to what that question’s about, how do you deal with somebody that you know…

[01:33:28 – 01:33:32] Y- y- you know how you, you can tell when somebody’s headed for trouble?

[01:33:32 – 01:33:45] If you’ve been around very long, you, you can tell, everybody can tell when somebody’s headed for trouble, and everybody is equally uncertain about how to deal with it.

[01:33:45 – 01:33:49] So that was one of our deals, of how do you deal with that.

[01:33:49 – 01:33:50] What we wound up with after…

[01:33:50 – 01:34:06] I mean, we, we weren’t gonna write it as law or anything, but what we wound up with the strong consensus after an excellent discussion was that we ought to go to the person who had the greatest trust level with that person and say, “Will you handle this?” I mean, it’s the only sensible way.

[01:34:06 – 01:34:11] I mean, there’s certain people that I would go to and would antagonize them before I even talk to them.

[01:34:11 – 01:34:13] But you get the right person.

[01:34:13 – 01:34:20] When you earn the trust and confidence of an alcoholic, there is no limit to what you can say to them.

[01:34:20 – 01:34:26] If you don’t have it, there’s no limit to what can, can screw up the relationship.

[01:34:26 – 01:34:29] So in dealing with those, they are sensitive issues.

[01:34:29 – 01:34:33] In, in dealing with that kind of a deal, I was kidding around about it a little bit, but they’re very sensitive.

[01:34:33 – 01:34:44] And so very important to get somebody that has the trusting relationship to say, “Hey, guy, come on, lighten up, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re bull- you’re bulldogging this thing.” Most of the time you don’t know it.

[01:34:44 – 01:34:47] And, uh, so that, that is a serious question.

[01:34:47 – 01:34:50] Shawnee is the name of that town in Oklahoma.

[01:34:50 – 01:34:57] I knew it would come right in the middle of the answer, Shawnee.

[01:34:57 – 01:35:01] Oh, my God.

[01:35:01 – 01:35:04] Do you sponsor people on medication?

[01:35:04 – 01:35:04] Yes.

[01:35:04 – 01:35:08] Uh, I, uh…

[01:35:08 – 01:35:16] When I s- when I get somebody on medication, what I always do, and, and, and I’m…

[01:35:16 – 01:35:20] Now, I spon- uh, I, I sponsor a lot of older people in the program.

[01:35:20 – 01:35:25] Uh, it wouldn’t be fair to brand-new people for me to sponsor them because I’m never there.

[01:35:25 – 01:35:28] And, and new people are gonna have a crisis a moment.

[01:35:28 – 01:35:30] Normally, if new people come to me, I, I…

[01:35:30 – 01:35:32] Once in a while I’ll take one.

[01:35:32 – 01:35:35] If he just looks aggravated enough, I…

[01:35:35 – 01:35:46] and I’ll just say, “Yeah, let me get this one.” And, uh, but as a rule, I’ll get somebody else that, that, that I sponsor and say, “Get this one, and then I’ll be next in line.

[01:35:46 – 01:35:49] So if you don’t like what he’s saying, you come to me.” Yeah, so- …

[01:35:49 – 01:35:52] so basically I tell you get two for the price of one, you know?

[01:35:52 – 01:35:55] And then that way you get somebody that can get accessible.

[01:35:55 – 01:36:02] But when I do sponsor people that are on medication, my basic deal is I w- I want to know what they’re taking.

[01:36:02 – 01:36:05] Most of the time they tell me what they’re taking, I don’t know what it is.

[01:36:05 – 01:36:08] I don’t have a clue, and I’m not too interested in learning.

[01:36:08 – 01:36:09] I, I, I just don’t know.

[01:36:09 – 01:36:14] And, but they tell you, describe to me what it’s for.

[01:36:14 – 01:36:23] I always have them to discuss with their doc a reasonable time to get off, if they can.

[01:36:23 – 01:36:28] Some people never will, and that’s something I have to be sensitive to.

[01:36:28 – 01:36:37] Uh, and so that if it’s something that they can rea- realistically look toward getting off, I want them to negotiate with their doc about…

[01:36:37 – 01:36:46] I want them to negotiate with their doc, uh, uh, and try to get that out.

[01:36:46 – 01:36:46] It’s his…

[01:36:46 – 01:36:48] Uh, he needs to own that.

[01:36:48 – 01:36:53] And what he nee- does not need is some muttonhead like me dictating conditions.

[01:36:53 – 01:36:59] And, and I, I tell you one other thing related to that is, uh…

[01:36:59 – 01:37:02] Well, and let me say just one other thing about that.

[01:37:02 – 01:37:12] The only time that I’ll draw a line with somebody on medication is if they’re so grossly affected that they can’t effectively be in the meeting.

[01:37:12 – 01:37:13] Now I’ll draw a line with that.

[01:37:13 – 01:37:17] But, but I’m gonna be real thoughtful and real careful about that.

[01:37:17 – 01:37:19] I’m not gonna jump on that real quick.

[01:37:19 – 01:37:22] But there, there are some, some, some limits to, to where it makes sense.

[01:37:22 – 01:37:27] But most people can function, and so you rarely have to do that.

[01:37:28 – 01:37:33] Um, I forgot what the other one was.

[01:37:33 – 01:37:36] Anyway, like Shawnee, it’ll come back.

[01:37:36 – 01:37:39] Uh, let’s see where I’m at here.

[01:37:39 – 01:37:42] Hm.

[01:37:42 – 01:37:46] Let me– I tell you one other thing about that trust thing, that trust level.

[01:37:46 – 01:37:54] It, it really had to do with medication in a way, but, I– We had a guy come into our group who had Tourette syndrome, syndrome.

[01:37:54 – 01:38:02] I really wasn’t intimately acquainted with it, but he got me intimately acquainted with it because he was profoundly out of whack with that stuff.

[01:38:02 – 01:38:04] I mean, it was– He had a bad case.

[01:38:04 – 01:38:09] And he would come to that seat right in front of the podium.

[01:38:09 – 01:38:17] Well, Tourette’s people make some absolutely grotesque sounds, you know, and they can’t control it.

[01:38:17 – 01:38:19] Excuse me.

[01:38:19 – 01:38:20] They can’t control it.

[01:38:20 – 01:38:29] And so, you, you know, this guy would be sitting in a meeting, and he’d just, you know, uncontrollably jerk, and he’d let out the god-awful shriek.

[01:38:29 – 01:38:36] Now, if you’re speaking or leading a discussion, that’s a little disconcerting, you know, when- You don’t know if he’s attacking you or what , you know, if you don’t know him.

[01:38:36 – 01:38:39] And, so that’s a t-tough issue.

[01:38:39 – 01:38:41] That’s a tough illness.

[01:38:41 – 01:38:46] So we did a group conscious.

[01:38:46 – 01:38:48] What do we do about Sean?

[01:38:48 – 01:38:56] And, uh, because the common welfare was jeopardized, we couldn’t just ignore it and sympathy da-da-da.

[01:38:56 – 01:39:04] Everybody had sympathy, but we had a room full of alcoholics who were not getting the quality of meeting, so the welfare was affected.

[01:39:04 – 01:39:11] So we, we dealt with it, and they, uh, they asked me and another fella to deal with him privately.

[01:39:11 – 01:39:13] So we did.

[01:39:13 – 01:39:17] You know, we, we agreed, and the next week…

[01:39:17 – 01:39:21] It’s amazing how God takes care of stuff when I get out of the way.

[01:39:21 – 01:39:26] The next week, he moved into some program, and he hadn’t been back.

[01:39:26 – 01:39:27] Mm.

[01:39:27 – 01:39:27] Isn’t that something?

[01:39:27 – 01:39:36] But what we were gonna do was take him off and just gently talk with him and have him move over to where Rob’s sitting, you know?

[01:39:36 – 01:39:40] To sit as far from the podium as he could get, not right under it.

[01:39:40 – 01:39:43] And then he wouldn’t be that disruptive, you know.

[01:39:43 – 01:39:45] And, and so it was just a way of dealing with that.

[01:39:45 – 01:39:54] So a lot of these kinds of problems, just with some sensitivity and consideration, you can deal with them without some embarrassing kind of an, an encounter.

[01:39:54 – 01:39:56] Uh, but very– being very sens…

[01:39:56 – 01:40:05] The other thing I was gonna say is that I like to, personally, I like to be very sensitive to recognizing my limitations.

[01:40:05 – 01:40:11] When I’m working with people, more than once I’ve gotten into deeper water than I could handle.

[01:40:11 – 01:40:12] Mm.

[01:40:12 – 01:40:22] And so I like to be sensitive to recognize when I’m getting past my level of competence, because some people are profoundly troubled.

[01:40:22 – 01:40:25] Our book makes it plain about reaching out to outside help.

[01:40:25 – 01:40:28] And so I’ll do that in a heartbeat.

[01:40:28 – 01:40:33] And I, and I think that’s my job is to help people sort that stuff out when I’m, when I’m trying to work with them.

[01:40:33 – 01:40:39] So that sort of ties into that, to that, um, medication thing and, and, and dealing with it.

[01:40:39 – 01:40:44] Um, last one, Al.

[01:40:44 – 01:40:51] I know it’s off the subject, however, is today your sobriety birthday?

[01:40:51 – 01:40:56] Uh, yes and no.

[01:40:56 – 01:40:59] It’s my dry date.

[01:40:59 – 01:41:02] November nineteenth of ’56, I had my last drink, I hope.

[01:41:02 – 01:41:05] I hope and pray that that was my last drink.

[01:41:05 – 01:41:08] I ain’t betting on it, but I, but I so far so good.

[01:41:08 – 01:41:16] It, it’s not my sobriety date ’cause I didn’t go to my first meeting till February, and dry and sober are two different things.

[01:41:16 – 01:41:22] And, and so, you know, that was honors to the sheriff that I was dry from November till, till February.

[01:41:22 – 01:41:28] And, uh, but then AA kicked in and, uh, so I celebrate on the second of February.

[01:41:28 – 01:41:41] I, uh, I’ve– Pete reminded me, uh, that, he said, “You know, that’s a big day for you, Guy.” Uh, and it is in terms of the fact that was the stop of an old life, but the start of the new one didn’t happen till February.

[01:41:41 – 01:41:43] The, uh…

[01:41:43 – 01:41:51] Al, turn it off, buddy, and, and, uh, if you, uh, anybody, anything that we didn’t get on the paper that I think was…

[01:41:51 – 01:41:51] I don’t.

[01:41:51 – 01:41:52] Think we got them.

[01:41:52 – 01:41:52] Any…

[01:41:52 – 01:41:52] Huh?

[01:41:52 – 01:41:59] Anybody, any, uh, anything else that you wanted to just ask about, comment on, or whatever?

[01:41:59 – 01:42:05] Well, that was fast for a redneck.

[01:42:05 – 01:42:06] That was fast.

[01:42:06 – 01:42:07] That’s…

[01:42:07 – 01:42:10] Faster than your phone call.

[01:42:10 – 01:42:13] Uh, you guys have been great.

[01:42:13 – 01:42:21] I, I have really, really enjoyed working with you, and any way that you even think I can be of help, just holler, and, uh, and I’ll try my darndest to do it.

[01:42:21 – 01:42:23] So we’re gonna do…

[01:42:23 – 01:42:24] Peter, tell us what we’re gonna do.

[01:42:24 – 01:42:29] I believe, uh, dinner’s gonna start about five o’clock.

[01:42:29 – 01:42:35] We have chili and bread bowls and, uh- Say it again …

[01:42:35 – 01:42:35] munchies and desserts.

[01:42:35 – 01:42:37] Chili and bread bowls- Wow …

[01:42:37 – 01:42:39] and munchies and desserts in about a half an hour or so.

[01:42:39 – 01:42:40] We’ll have ESPN.

[01:42:40 – 01:42:44] Twenty-five minutes, Peter.

[01:42:44 – 01:42:44] Yeah.

[01:42:44 – 01:42:45] Twenty-five minutes.

[01:42:45 – 01:42:46] Okay.

[01:42:46 – 01:42:47] Well, thanks, folks.

[01:42:47 – 01:42:47] Thank you.

[01:42:47 – 01:42:48] Thank you.

[01:42:48 – 01:42:49] Yeah, a real pleasure.

[01:42:49 – 01:42:50] Thank, thank you very much.

[01:42:50 – 01:42:51] Yes.

[01:42:51 – 01:42:52] That’s just like you.