[00:00:00.260 – 00:00:01.139] That’s about a date.

[00:00:01.139 – 00:00:03.620] It’s July 1970.

[00:00:03.620 – 00:00:09.640] So I’m a real junior at this thing, and I really don’t know why I’m up here, but that doesn’t have much to do with it anyhow.

[00:00:09.640 – 00:00:11.019] I’m like Eve, I’m here.

[00:00:11.019 – 00:00:21.019] Uh, the thing is that we don’t waste a lot of time with this because it’s your meeting, and these folks are– we never get this many of them together, and we’d certainly like for

[00:00:21.019 – 00:00:23.679] you to start w-with a, a question.

[00:00:23.679 – 00:00:28.719] And like I say, line up at any one of these mics if you would like to and address your question.

[00:00:28.719 – 00:00:35.979] I’ll repeat it, and that person will get up and of course can tell you their years or something they want to about themselves and answer that question.

[00:00:35.979 – 00:00:41.299] So please, will somebody get up and address the, the podium here?

[00:00:41.299 – 00:00:44.380] That’s all right, Paul.

[00:00:44.380 – 00:00:45.500] You can.

[00:00:45.500 – 00:00:48.170] You have to have this.

[00:00:48.170 – 00:00:51.840] Go ahead.

[00:00:51.840 – 00:00:52.350] My name is Mark.

[00:00:52.350 – 00:00:53.820] I’m an alcoholic.

[00:00:53.820 – 00:00:54.380] Hey, Mark.

[00:00:54.380 – 00:01:04.769] Uh, I, anyone that wants to say anything, I would like to know what, if anything, has changed today from the day you first

[00:01:04.769 – 00:01:08.500] came in, what you do to stay sober.

[00:01:08.500 – 00:01:09.200] Mm-hmm.

[00:01:09.200 – 00:01:17.700] What has changed since any of the old-timers that came, came into the program?

[00:01:17.700 – 00:01:22.859] What has changed, if anything, and what they do to stay sober on a daily basis.

[00:01:22.859 – 00:01:24.760] That’s my question.

[00:01:24.760 – 00:01:26.039] Please.

[00:01:26.039 – 00:01:28.700] You want me?

[00:01:28.700 – 00:01:29.140] Yeah.

[00:01:29.140 – 00:01:30.260] Oh.

[00:01:30.260 – 00:01:32.120] Come on.

[00:01:32.120 – 00:01:38.439] You look okay.

[00:01:38.439 – 00:01:39.280] Do I say my name?

[00:01:39.280 – 00:01:40.739] Yeah.

[00:01:40.739 – 00:01:41.069] Go ahead.

[00:01:41.069 – 00:01:46.459] Well, I’m Louise Andrews, and, uh, I have been sober thirty-nine years.

[00:01:46.459 – 00:01:48.549] Wow.

[00:01:48.549 – 00:01:58.980] And I’m very, very grateful for that because just this year, uh, I’ve had a lot of problems and, uh, if I hadn’t caught myself in time,

[00:01:58.980 – 00:02:02.159] I wouldn’t have been able to stand here tonight.

[00:02:02.159 – 00:02:11.740] But, uh, what has changed since, uh, I came in, I think most of all has been a peace of mind.

[00:02:11.740 – 00:02:21.740] In fact, the very night that these wonderful ladies came to see me, I had a peace of mind for the first time in

[00:02:21.740 – 00:02:27.439] many years, and I have had peace of mind most of the time since then.

[00:02:27.439 – 00:02:37.520] I, uh, believe in trying to help my fellow man as well as myself because I think that our program is one person

[00:02:37.520 – 00:02:38.819] helping the other.

[00:02:38.819 – 00:02:40.080] That’s how Bill and Dr.

[00:02:40.080 – 00:02:42.240] Bob got started, I understand.

[00:02:42.240 – 00:02:44.430] And that’s what I like to do.

[00:02:44.430 – 00:02:48.000] I don’t get around to meetings as much as I used to.

[00:02:48.000 – 00:02:54.539] I’m not as active as I used to be, and I miss that because for many, many years I was very active.

[00:02:54.539 – 00:03:04.599] But now I do still work the hotline occasionally, and I’m on call for, uh, calls coming into the,

[00:03:04.599 – 00:03:05.379] um…

[00:03:05.379 – 00:03:06.400] what is it?

[00:03:06.400 – 00:03:08.900] The answering service and that sort of thing.

[00:03:08.900 – 00:03:16.360] So those are some of the things that I do to, uh, stay sober and be happy about it.

[00:03:16.360 – 00:03:25.280] Of course, I early on in a, a– I believed whether I understood or not.

[00:03:25.280 – 00:03:34.680] Somebody said that one time at a meeting, that they were going to believe and have faith whether they understood or not.

[00:03:34.680 – 00:03:43.680] And I have tried to carry that on because believe me, there are still many times when I don’t understand, but I keep still trying to believe.

[00:03:43.680 – 00:03:44.479] Thank you.

[00:03:44.479 – 00:03:51.859] Get up there, Eve, and go right ahead.

[00:03:51.859 – 00:03:56.479] Hi, my name is Eve Marsh, and I’m an alcoholic.

[00:03:56.479 – 00:03:58.310] Hi, Eve.

[00:03:58.310 – 00:04:04.319] Uh, perhaps I misunderstood the question, but I thought that Mark was asking how AA had changed.

[00:04:04.319 – 00:04:14.349] And, uh, I, I just think it’s terribly important that we recognize the fact that the same program that got me sober forty-five years ago, and Charlie and Ken and

[00:04:14.349 – 00:04:20.339] Clancy and the rest of them, is the program that’s gonna get you sober today or get people sober today.

[00:04:20.339 – 00:04:30.600] I think there have been many changes, but they’ve been external rather than internal, and may they always

[00:04:30.600 – 00:04:31.199] be that.

[00:04:31.199 – 00:04:41.300] Uh, the changes are partially, I got sober at thirty-seven, and, uh, everybody said to me, “Oh, you’re so young.” God, at thirty-seven today,

[00:04:41.300 – 00:04:43.699] you’d have three divorces and have four grandchildren.

[00:04:43.699 – 00:04:46.800] You know, I mean, uh, so that has changed.

[00:04:46.800 – 00:04:50.339] The age of people coming to this program has changed.

[00:04:50.339 – 00:05:00.180] It’s so wonderful to have younger people, uh, able to understand the illness and to accept it at an early age and avoid those years of, uh, some of the years of despair and horror.

[00:05:00.180 – 00:05:07.360] The other thing that’s changed is the world around us, and that has had a good value and bad value.

[00:05:07.360 – 00:05:09.319] Uh, it’s wonderful.

[00:05:09.319 – 00:05:16.839] It’s wonderful to know that people are beginning slowly, slowly to understand that alcoholism is an illness, that addiction is an illness.

[00:05:16.839 – 00:05:19.420] It’s wonderful to have people into it.

[00:05:19.420 – 00:05:23.540] Thank God there are places that people can go who need hospitalization.

[00:05:23.540 – 00:05:26.139] But the bad goes along with the good.

[00:05:26.139 – 00:05:32.500] There are place, places and people who exploit this, and sometimes there are not such good treatment centers.

[00:05:32.500 – 00:05:34.160] And that doesn’t mean they’re all bad.

[00:05:34.160 – 00:05:37.459] But I mean, uh, sometimes people are out to make money.

[00:05:37.459 – 00:05:41.089] And, uh, once in a while, somebody will use AA.

[00:05:41.089 – 00:05:49.300] Of course, I hope they use AA because I think the treatment centers that use the AA program as a basis are the ones that are most successful.

[00:05:49.300 – 00:05:51.819] We used to be terribly afraid of people using AA.

[00:05:51.819 – 00:06:01.819] Somebody would, uh, would exploit something or other, and that was a horrible thing you could say about anybody back in the early days was, “He’s using AA.” You know, somebody’s gonna sell

[00:06:01.819 – 00:06:02.899] insurance to his friends.

[00:06:02.899 – 00:06:04.290] He’s using AA, you know.

[00:06:04.290 – 00:06:05.740] Oh, it was a horror.

[00:06:05.740 – 00:06:11.036] And of course, if you made any money in connection with AA That, thank God, has changed too.

[00:06:11.036 – 00:06:20.315] And, uh, I understood a little of that when I first began to work in AA, having worked in AA jobs, uh, during a lot of my sobriety.

[00:06:20.315 – 00:06:27.055] Uh, the first job I had was as secretary at our local Intergroup office in New York, and this is way back in 1948.

[00:06:27.055 – 00:06:29.696] And they didn’t pay very much.

[00:06:29.696 – 00:06:31.795] It was considered an honor to work in AA.

[00:06:31.795 – 00:06:34.076] My God, you ought to be happy that you’re working in AA.

[00:06:34.076 – 00:06:35.235] What do you mean pay the rent?

[00:06:35.235 – 00:06:37.196] I mean, that’s immaterial.

[00:06:37.196 – 00:06:47.295] And I remember I went to work at, at the Intergroup office, and I was so thrilled and so excited because I felt it was a way in which I could, could give back some of what had been given to me,

[00:06:47.295 – 00:06:50.656] and I was so totally unprepared for anything else.

[00:06:50.656 – 00:06:51.576] I had no skills.

[00:06:51.576 – 00:06:53.036] I couldn’t type, still can’t.

[00:06:53.036 – 00:06:55.475] Nobody could read my handwriting, still can’t.

[00:06:55.475 – 00:06:58.776] And I, you know, I, I never had any skills.

[00:06:58.776 – 00:07:02.216] Uh, being sort of a half-assed actress, but that was about the end of it.

[00:07:02.216 – 00:07:03.555] So that was no good.

[00:07:03.555 – 00:07:07.415] And so I was thrilled to have this tremendous job, and I’ll never forget.

[00:07:07.415 – 00:07:10.555] And I went to a big Christmas party shortly after I’d gone to work.

[00:07:10.555 – 00:07:13.254] I’d gone to work in September, and it was at Christmas time.

[00:07:13.254 – 00:07:16.576] It was a lovely big Christmas party, a lot of AAs in, in New York City.

[00:07:16.576 – 00:07:23.375] And, uh, this fellow who, who loved me dearly said, I’m, who was visiting AA from Texas.

[00:07:23.375 – 00:07:24.656] He said, “Oh, that’s EE.

[00:07:24.656 – 00:07:34.826] She’s our new secretary at the Intergroup office.” And this AA looked at me and said, “Oh, a professional AA.” Well, I want to tell you, I nearly died because I felt

[00:07:34.826 – 00:07:40.096] that it, that, uh, there was a criticism attached to it that, that we were making something out of it.

[00:07:40.096 – 00:07:49.915] And thank God the idea that AAs in paid jobs are somehow anathema has changed, and people are being paid what they’re worth, almost, not quite.

[00:07:49.915 – 00:07:52.076] Uh, because, uh, that has changed.

[00:07:52.076 – 00:08:02.146] And you know that secretaries at Intergroup offices and places like that and at the office in New York, uh, need, as Bill used to say, uh, “The labor is worthy of its hire.” And,

[00:08:02.146 – 00:08:09.495] uh, so those are the changes that I see have taken place, but I pray that we never allow AA itself, the program that got us sober, to change.

[00:08:09.495 – 00:08:11.156] We don’t have to change it.

[00:08:11.156 – 00:08:13.846] We don’t have to adapt it to other areas, other things.

[00:08:13.846 – 00:08:18.836] We know from the experience that we’ve had around us that other people use the program.

[00:08:18.836 – 00:08:20.386] I say God let them.

[00:08:20.386 – 00:08:22.495] That’s wonderful, but it’s not AA.

[00:08:22.495 – 00:08:23.675] Thank you.

[00:08:23.675 – 00:08:32.806] Give me a mic.

[00:08:32.806 – 00:08:32.806] Here.

[00:08:32.806 – 00:08:33.735] Thank you, ladies.

[00:08:33.735 – 00:08:37.515] I’m Sheila Ryan, and I am an alcoholic.

[00:08:37.515 – 00:08:38.596] Hi, Sheila.

[00:08:38.596 – 00:08:44.895] And I got sober in the Bronx, New York, on March 31st, 1956.

[00:08:44.895 – 00:08:53.015] And I am very grateful to God that I have the opportunity to appear on a panel with these wonderful old-timers.

[00:08:53.015 – 00:08:57.836] An old-timer to me is someone who has more sobriety than I have.

[00:08:57.836 – 00:09:08.056] When I came into AA, an old-timer had two days of sobriety or two months of sobriety, and I am so grateful

[00:09:08.056 – 00:09:17.275] for these wonderful people on this panel who have led the way to give me the opportunity to get sober and to stay sober.

[00:09:17.275 – 00:09:25.655] I’ve changed over the years, and I’ve had to change or I wouldn’t stay sober.

[00:09:25.655 – 00:09:35.855] But what I do in AA today is the same as my activity when I was brand new because that doesn’t change.

[00:09:35.855 – 00:09:45.995] I need to be involved in this marvelous program because I am grateful to God that I have 34 and a half

[00:09:45.995 – 00:09:47.855] years of continuous sobriety.

[00:09:47.855 – 00:09:55.395] And in the years I’ve been sober, I’ve never seen a grateful man or woman ever pick up a drink.

[00:09:55.395 – 00:09:58.155] And I don’t want to hear gratitude.

[00:09:58.155 – 00:09:59.875] I want to see gratitude.

[00:09:59.875 – 00:10:08.105] Yay.

[00:10:08.105 – 00:10:13.975] I told someone when I came in to- today that I was on my soapbox, and you can see I’m on my soapbox.

[00:10:13.975 – 00:10:17.135] But I’m…

[00:10:17.135 – 00:10:27.196] You know, I’d be a damn fool if I wasn’t grateful to a fellowship and 12 Steps and the marvelous people in it who have held me together

[00:10:27.196 – 00:10:31.336] under all conditions, all conditions.

[00:10:31.336 – 00:10:41.355] And I think when we’re sober as long as we are, we have lived through every damn thing that could happen in your life.

[00:10:41.355 – 00:10:43.316] We have lived through it.

[00:10:43.316 – 00:10:44.115] Yes.

[00:10:44.115 – 00:10:50.916] And we have stayed sober regardless, and that is the key: continuous sobriety.

[00:10:50.916 – 00:11:00.956] I don’t want to stand up here and say, “Well, I was sober two days ago, but I’m in this program 28 years.” I want to be sober

[00:11:00.956 – 00:11:09.515] continuously, and if I listen to you out there and to you people here, I will maintain that sobriety.

[00:11:09.515 – 00:11:19.535] Now, how AA has changed since I come into the program is the num- is the growth of this marvelous fellowship.

[00:11:19.535 – 00:11:23.035] My God, it has exploded.

[00:11:23.035 – 00:11:27.056] And you know, every 10 years, we see a new explosion.

[00:11:27.056 – 00:11:35.056] We exploded in the ’50s, in the ’60s, in the ’70s, in the ’80s, and in the ’90s.

[00:11:35.056 – 00:11:46.285] When I came to Florida in ’75 from New York City, where there were so many meetings, and

[00:11:46.285 – 00:11:55.375] there were 17 meetings in a week, and I said, “My God, why did I move to this city?” I mean, why did I move here?

[00:11:55.375 – 00:12:02.716] Now, and I think Howard is in the audience, how many meetings do we have in Central Florida now, Howard?

[00:12:02.716 – 00:12:07.696] Right on.

[00:12:07.696 – 00:12:18.480] And I contribute that to

[00:12:18.480 – 00:12:28.639] each and every one of us reaching out and carrying the message as it was carried

[00:12:28.639 – 00:12:31.720] 55 years ago by Bill to Bob.

[00:12:31.720 – 00:12:38.279] We carry that message one on one to each and every person that we reach.

[00:12:38.279 – 00:12:42.159] Some we sponsor, some we do not.

[00:12:42.159 – 00:12:51.379] But it is my responsibility to give back to this marvelous fellowship what has been given to me so freely.

[00:12:51.379 – 00:12:58.159] And I want to repeat before I sit down, I’ve never known a grateful man or woman ever pick up a drink.

[00:12:58.159 – 00:13:00.360] Show your gratitude.

[00:13:00.360 – 00:13:01.220] Thank you.

[00:13:01.220 – 00:13:12.500] Uh,

[00:13:12.500 – 00:13:16.059] Eve mentioned the fact about using AA.

[00:13:16.059 – 00:13:22.500] I remember one time down there at the old central group, we had so many insurance salesmen, we made them wear name tags.

[00:13:22.500 – 00:13:25.519] Yeah, they was trying to sell each other insurance.

[00:13:25.519 – 00:13:30.399] I’d certainly appreciate someone else that would like to direct a question up here.

[00:13:30.399 – 00:13:32.399] Get up to the mic, hon, so we can hear you.

[00:13:32.399 – 00:13:34.830] Hi, Sandra.

[00:13:34.830 – 00:13:39.549] Uh, my understanding is that on step one I had to give 100% to the first step.

[00:13:39.549 – 00:13:52.210] I would like to hear this morning from

[00:13:52.210 – 00:13:54.899] the panel.

[00:13:54.899 – 00:13:55.360] All right.

[00:13:55.360 – 00:14:02.620] Uh, it was understood by, by her that you had to give 100% to the first step.

[00:14:02.620 – 00:14:12.279] That was the, the big requirement, and she would like to hear from one of, or one or more of the panel what they thought of that particular comment.

[00:14:12.279 – 00:14:15.779] Charles, let’s let you get up here for a minute, please.

[00:14:15.779 – 00:14:25.460] My name is Charles Lindenwood.

[00:14:25.460 – 00:14:26.580] I’m an alcoholic.

[00:14:26.580 – 00:14:28.448] Hi, Charles.

[00:14:28.448 – 00:14:39.059] “We” is the first word in the first step, and when we say, “We admitted we were powerless

[00:14:39.059 – 00:14:48.960] over alcohol,” that means that you were powerless, you, you, you, everybody in here.

[00:14:48.960 – 00:15:00.259] Unless you’re here under false pretenses, you have admitted you were powerless over alcohol, dash, that

[00:15:00.259 – 00:15:02.620] your life had become unmanageable.

[00:15:02.620 – 00:15:12.659] And if you’re not kidding yourself and other members of AA and God, and you say that your life

[00:15:12.659 – 00:15:22.799] had become unmanageable because of alcohol, you’re admitting that you’re eligible for the next step,

[00:15:22.799 – 00:15:24.799] which has to do for sanity.

[00:15:24.799 – 00:15:34.559] Uh, uh, I, I hate to admit it, but I’m talking to a bunch of people here who have admitted they’re nuts.

[00:15:34.559 – 00:15:44.799] And that’s good because we, we have to be a little insane

[00:15:44.799 – 00:15:46.419] to keep from going crazy.

[00:15:46.419 – 00:15:54.299] If you drank as much alcohol as I did, and everything that had alcohol…

[00:15:54.299 – 00:15:57.500] I, I drank everything that was too thin to chew.

[00:15:57.500 – 00:16:03.559] And I’m sure that you drank a whole lot of alcohol.

[00:16:03.559 – 00:16:15.309] The, uh, the first step is very important, and in my estimation, which don’t amount to a whole lot- …

[00:16:15.309 – 00:16:18.519] but in my candid opinion- …

[00:16:18.519 – 00:16:22.580] the first step is the only step you can really complete.

[00:16:22.580 – 00:16:27.059] The others go round and round and round.

[00:16:27.059 – 00:16:37.080] And when you get to the 12th step, the next step is the first step, because you’ve got to keep reminding yourself from

[00:16:37.080 – 00:16:46.940] whence you came and what made you eligible in this members, in this fellowship, what made you eligible for membership.

[00:16:46.940 – 00:16:57.200] So you matriculated because of your ingestion of alcohol and what it did to you while you were under the influence

[00:16:57.200 – 00:17:02.539] of alcohol and what it made you do that you do not approve of.

[00:17:02.539 – 00:17:06.079] Let me clarify that.

[00:17:06.079 – 00:17:12.259] And if, if, if you understand it, tell me after we get through here.

[00:17:12.259 – 00:17:22.259] You see, everybody in this room has a set of rules, a set of rules that control your life,

[00:17:22.259 – 00:17:27.779] a set of rules that you live by, and you have a right to that set of rules.

[00:17:27.779 – 00:17:36.920] And Alcoholics Anonymous don’t object to the set of rules that you have created for yourself to live by.

[00:17:36.920 – 00:17:39.900] But when you…

[00:17:39.900 – 00:17:45.579] I’m not talking about the laws of the land or the edicts of the church.

[00:17:45.579 – 00:17:50.220] I’m talking about your own rules that govern your behavior.

[00:17:50.220 – 00:17:56.099] And while you’re under the influence of alcohol, you break those rules.

[00:17:56.099 – 00:18:02.720] You break your own rules because of the ingestion of alcohol.

[00:18:02.720 – 00:18:05.140] Then you can rest assured that-

[00:18:05.606 – 00:18:08.126] You’re pretty close to being an alcoholic.

[00:18:08.126 – 00:18:18.106] And if you don’t think you’re pretty close to being an alcoholic, you may be one of those people that’s died, and I don’t see many of those here.

[00:18:18.106 – 00:18:26.346] So you see, you’re still alive, and you have still been the recipient of God’s grace.

[00:18:26.346 – 00:18:32.926] And the word grace means unmerited reward.

[00:18:32.926 – 00:18:43.126] You’ve received this because you started, and you admitted that you were powerless over alcohol

[00:18:43.126 – 00:18:46.606] and that your life became unmanageable.

[00:18:46.606 – 00:18:49.106] And I hope you’ll continue.

[00:18:49.106 – 00:18:59.166] I, I, I knew a man one time that said, “You take the first nine steps, throw them away, and stay sober

[00:18:59.166 – 00:19:08.466] on the last three.” I hope that every man and woman in this room continues to remember that you’re an alcoholic.

[00:19:08.466 – 00:19:14.966] And if you’re an alcoholic, you’re a potential drunk for this day or any other day.

[00:19:14.966 – 00:19:17.746] You don’t have any guarantee of sobriety.

[00:19:17.746 – 00:19:21.346] There’s nobody on this panel, although there’s…

[00:19:21.346 – 00:19:28.786] I know there’s 45 years here, 40, 45 years here.

[00:19:28.786 – 00:19:30.546] I got 45 years.

[00:19:30.546 – 00:19:37.226] Clancy, how mu- Clancy’s been sober longer than dirt.

[00:19:37.226 – 00:19:47.526] And Sheila with her, and, and God bless Louise, she’s been sober

[00:19:47.526 – 00:19:49.946] longer than Moses.

[00:19:49.946 – 00:20:00.086] But if you added up all the years of sobriety here, and you think that we’re any clearer

[00:20:00.086 – 00:20:09.236] to being a saint than you are, you’re wrong, for we’d be the first to admit that we do not have any guarantee of sobriety.

[00:20:09.236 – 00:20:12.826] That’s why we keep coming back and coming back.

[00:20:12.826 – 00:20:17.226] And when we came in, they said, “Come back.

[00:20:17.226 – 00:20:19.046] Come back.

[00:20:19.046 – 00:20:28.106] Come back.” And these may be the two important words that stuck in our mind, and we still come back.

[00:20:28.106 – 00:20:37.226] And I certainly hope that God will grant us the privilege of having these people to come back and come back and come back.

[00:20:37.226 – 00:20:39.386] God bless you.

[00:20:39.386 – 00:20:49.286] Need somebody up there at the microphone.

[00:20:49.286 – 00:20:50.826] There, we got one.

[00:20:50.826 – 00:20:51.396] Please, ma’am.

[00:20:51.396 – 00:20:52.186] My name is Peggy, and I’m an alcoholic.

[00:20:52.186 – 00:20:52.196] Hi, Peggy.

[00:20:52.196 – 00:20:59.286] And I’ve been around a really long.

[00:20:59.286 – 00:21:04.986] And, you know, I, I started dancing when I was little.

[00:21:04.986 – 00:21:13.776] Did quite a lot of things when I was little, but then I, um, got married both at once, divorced.

[00:21:13.776 – 00:21:15.295] And I worked myself all the time to many, many unhappy, unhappy places, places.

[00:21:15.295 – 00:21:16.406] And then all that happened to me.

[00:21:16.406 – 00:21:26.686] But all these years, many, many times they told me there’s one thing that I cannot say that I have found.

[00:21:26.686 – 00:21:35.896] And, uh, to look back and say, “Yeah, that was the day when I found humility.” And when did I find it?

[00:21:35.896 – 00:21:39.196] Describe that point in the structure that made my soul, if I ever found humility, if I ever did.

[00:21:39.196 – 00:21:49.246] The question is, does anybody on the panel recognize the day that they

[00:21:49.246 – 00:21:50.896] actually found humility?

[00:21:50.896 – 00:21:53.666] And I can’t think of but one person to answer that question.

[00:21:53.666 – 00:21:54.526] Please, Clancy.

[00:21:54.526 – 00:22:05.086] My

[00:22:05.086 – 00:22:07.106] name is Clancy Imsland, and I’m an alcoholic.

[00:22:07.106 – 00:22:08.936] Hi, Clancy.

[00:22:08.936 – 00:22:10.106] I’m glad that question came up.

[00:22:10.106 – 00:22:12.086] It was, uh, today about 2:00.

[00:22:12.086 – 00:22:22.095] Actually, humility to me is, uh, something a little different than, uh, some

[00:22:22.095 – 00:22:22.275] people…

[00:22:22.275 – 00:22:27.966] than I used to think what it is, as I’ve be- tried to become a little more understanding in AA.

[00:22:27.966 – 00:22:38.366] And I look over my life, humility is something that you don’t know you’ve got when you got it, and by the time you realize

[00:22:38.366 – 00:22:39.606] you’ve had it, it’s too late.

[00:22:39.606 – 00:22:42.586] And you have to keep working toward it.

[00:22:42.586 – 00:22:52.766] And I think really what humility boils down to is just being yourself, and very few of us can do that very long because we live in a world

[00:22:52.766 – 00:22:59.526] where we have to put up little masks and play little games and play roles and get along with people and all that crap.

[00:22:59.526 – 00:23:05.666] But once in a while, y- when you’re lost in others, you can be yourself without being aware of it.

[00:23:05.666 – 00:23:09.926] And it’s just like a breath of fresh air blowing through your head, and you feel good.

[00:23:09.926 – 00:23:20.246] I think one of the great things about, uh, 12 step work is that that’s probably one of the easier ways to be yourself

[00:23:20.246 – 00:23:24.706] because you’re concerned about that person, and you got thinking about him.

[00:23:24.706 – 00:23:33.206] And of course, the number one rule about 12 step work is when I’m thinking about that sick puke, I’m not thinking about this sick puke.

[00:23:33.206 – 00:23:37.046] And it’s just a great relief.

[00:23:37.046 – 00:23:40.986] Another funny thing, you know, they talk about ego here.

[00:23:40.986 – 00:23:48.666] The alcoholics, I have never known an alcoholic in my career that I believe came to AA truly egotistical.

[00:23:48.666 – 00:23:59.126] That ego is a defense mechanism that frightened, lonely, overly sensitive people put up to show they don’t have any feelings.

[00:23:59.126 – 00:24:06.146] And I don’t know if anybody in this, maybe somebody in this room didn’t have them, but I don’t know who they were, ’cause that’s one of the hallmarks of the illness.

[00:24:06.146 – 00:24:14.878] And they always talk about, “I’m going to rip this arrogance off this guy over a period of time and get him humble.” You want to know how to get people humble?

[00:24:14.878 – 00:24:19.358] In my opinion, you build them up to humility.

[00:24:19.358 – 00:24:29.388] You build them up self-confidence little by little, self-worth, take the actions of AA that deal with inadequacy and fear, and

[00:24:29.388 – 00:24:37.898] little by little, as they build up, they’re able to reduce their wall little by little, and one day they peer over it just as themselves.

[00:24:37.898 – 00:24:41.818] Because we all live walls in lives of defense mechanisms.

[00:24:41.818 – 00:24:43.338] You can’t live in the world without it.

[00:24:43.338 – 00:24:46.818] You know, and they vary, and we forget that they are.

[00:24:46.818 – 00:24:56.818] When I was younger and tried to evade responsibility by passing myself off as an intellectual, I would, you

[00:24:56.818 – 00:25:06.958] know, get in– I’d say things like, um, “What we’ve been discussing, I, uh, I don’t suppose you ever read what Nietzsche has to say on that subject,

[00:25:06.958 – 00:25:16.078] did you?” “No, I really didn’t think you had.” And it goes all the way around.

[00:25:16.078 – 00:25:26.358] The whole spectrum comes up to the other side where a guy is saying, “I got a new Harley, and I’m going to drive it up your ass.” It sounds

[00:25:26.358 – 00:25:28.838] entirely different, but it’s exactly the same thing.

[00:25:28.838 – 00:25:31.478] It really is.

[00:25:31.478 – 00:25:32.958] It’s the same thing.

[00:25:32.958 – 00:25:38.398] Believe the image I have because I’m afraid I myself will not be enough.

[00:25:38.398 – 00:25:48.478] So you got to build up confidence and self-worth and reason for being till they can be themselves, so they don’t have to be different,

[00:25:48.478 – 00:25:52.838] so they don’t have to be superior, so they don’t have anything to prove.

[00:25:52.838 – 00:25:54.218] They can be themselves.

[00:25:54.218 – 00:26:04.538] And when you can be that, it’s a short-term thing because the world you’re, you’re always having to change, to play a role, to get along with somebody, to do something, to pretend to be interested

[00:26:04.538 – 00:26:14.578] in some boss’s tedious remarks or putting up with some pretty girl’s inane comments so you’ll get to the later

[00:26:14.578 – 00:26:16.338] part of the evenings, hopefully, when you’re young.

[00:26:16.338 – 00:26:18.678] And on and on.

[00:26:18.678 – 00:26:22.518] But the great moments come when you can be yourself.

[00:26:22.518 – 00:26:33.178] I don’t know that anybody can look back and say, “That’s when I got humility,” because I’m sure we’ve all had it for little brief periods here and there, and it comes and goes depending on your, the

[00:26:33.178 – 00:26:35.218] maintenance of your spiritual condition.

[00:26:35.218 – 00:26:35.858] Thank you.

[00:26:35.858 – 00:27:28.318] Okay.

[00:27:28.318 – 00:27:38.478] All right, the, the question is, does one have to go back and go through all the pain and, and relive all the things of childhood and, uh,

[00:27:38.478 – 00:27:48.158] uh, the discomforts and all of, of growing up and all, or could one just come right into the program and work the, the steps and bypass that?

[00:27:48.158 – 00:27:52.128] And so on.

[00:27:52.128 – 00:27:52.918] How about it, Steve?

[00:27:52.918 – 00:27:57.158] Please, hon.

[00:27:57.158 – 00:28:00.298] Give it a shot.

[00:28:00.298 – 00:28:10.298] I think, I think that the im-important thing is that you have to do the fourth

[00:28:10.298 – 00:28:15.458] step to the extent that you know who you are, that you know yourself.

[00:28:15.458 – 00:28:25.118] I think sometimes we forget that the fifth step talks about the nature of our wrongs.

[00:28:25.118 – 00:28:30.098] Uh, there’s a pattern in each one of us, and if we can begin to recognize the pattern…

[00:28:30.098 – 00:28:33.598] I get very dismayed sometimes.

[00:28:33.598 – 00:28:39.658] I do some fourth and fifth step work with gals who are having trouble getting with the program.

[00:28:39.658 – 00:28:49.717] And sometimes they’ve been in treatment centers, and they come out, and they say, “I’ve brought this list with me.” And they throw– they’ve got fifty-five pages

[00:28:49.718 – 00:28:57.258] full of every man they slept with, every home they broke, every bar they went into, every dollar they stole.

[00:28:57.258 – 00:29:07.318] And they’re listing incidents, things that happened while they were drinking, instead of looking at the pattern, instead of looking at their

[00:29:07.318 – 00:29:08.078] motivation.

[00:29:08.078 – 00:29:18.098] I think the motivation is the most important thing that we have to look for when we’re dealing with ourselves, to understand how

[00:29:18.098 – 00:29:25.058] often we’ve done things for gain, how often we’ve done things ostensibly out of love to find out that it really wasn’t love at all.

[00:29:25.058 – 00:29:28.698] It was looking for approval, things of that nature.

[00:29:28.698 – 00:29:34.758] I know there are people who feel they have to delve into their childhood.

[00:29:34.758 – 00:29:42.078] They have to find out, it seems sometimes, to find out why they got to be where they are.

[00:29:42.078 – 00:29:49.778] And I remember when I first got sober, it kept, they kept telling me, “You don’t have to know why you’re an alcoholic.

[00:29:49.778 – 00:29:59.518] What you have to know is that you are one, and to accept that fact, and take that first step one hundred percent,” as the other question that was asked.

[00:29:59.518 – 00:30:03.058] That, I think, is an individual choice.

[00:30:03.058 – 00:30:13.618] Uh, I think it’s important that in going back and finding those, quote, reasons, that one does not make them, quote, excuses.

[00:30:13.618 – 00:30:18.866] I think it’s important that we accept the responsibility for our own alcoholism.

[00:30:18.866 – 00:30:22.666] We’ve been blaming it on other people a lot in the past.

[00:30:22.666 – 00:30:24.466] Today, we don’t do that anymore.

[00:30:24.466 – 00:30:26.466] We know it was something in us.

[00:30:26.466 – 00:30:27.446] We have an illness.

[00:30:27.446 – 00:30:30.426] You don’t blame people because you got pneumonia or cancer.

[00:30:30.426 – 00:30:33.226] You don’t have to blame people because you got alcoholism.

[00:30:33.226 – 00:30:34.546] It’s an illness.

[00:30:34.546 – 00:30:42.546] But the big thing is that self-honesty, looking at the exact nature of our wrongs, and looking at our motivation.

[00:30:42.546 – 00:30:51.366] And, uh, the answer is to do it in a way which makes you feel comfortable about you, that makes you content with yourself.

[00:30:51.366 – 00:30:52.986] Never c- perfect.

[00:30:52.986 – 00:30:53.706] I don’t mean that.

[00:30:53.706 – 00:30:55.046] We’re never totally content.

[00:30:55.046 – 00:30:55.956] We’re always changing.

[00:30:55.956 – 00:31:04.346] But, uh, at least to that degree, so that you can accept yourself and build on it, and get to be the best you you can be.

[00:31:04.346 – 00:31:11.046] I’m sure somebody else can answer that better than I did, but anyway.

[00:31:11.046 – 00:31:20.506] I may be repeating a lot of what Eve said.

[00:31:20.506 – 00:31:23.006] I’m learning a lot from you today, ladies.

[00:31:23.006 – 00:31:30.826] We’re referring really here to our fourth and fifth step.

[00:31:30.826 – 00:31:41.506] Now, I spent my very early days in sobriety just struggling through one day at a time

[00:31:41.506 – 00:31:45.566] to stay sober, and I was told to put my sobriety first.

[00:31:45.566 – 00:31:55.606] One day at a time, I didn’t drink, and I found that over a period of time, when I stayed away from alcohol long enough,

[00:31:55.606 – 00:31:58.826] I was able to recognize how sick I was.

[00:31:58.826 – 00:32:08.946] Now, had I taken the fourth and fifth step when I had about a week of sobriety, I would’ve blamed

[00:32:08.946 – 00:32:19.046] my husband, my mother — we always blame mothers — my father, the good nuns that taught me in school,

[00:32:19.046 – 00:32:20.886] the priests.

[00:32:20.886 – 00:32:26.346] I would’ve blamed everyone I could because I didn’t wanna be here.

[00:32:26.346 – 00:32:31.266] Thank God for good sponsorship.

[00:32:31.266 – 00:32:34.086] Guided me.

[00:32:34.086 – 00:32:39.146] That sponsorship guided me into these steps and through these steps.

[00:32:39.146 – 00:32:49.166] Now, the fourth step, my sponsor told me that this is your inventory, and I

[00:32:49.166 – 00:32:52.286] said, “Damn it.” I mean, I had it all set.

[00:32:52.286 – 00:33:02.286] Your inventory, and when you come to me with the fifth step, I don’t wanna hear about why you drank, that your husband did it, your mother

[00:33:02.286 – 00:33:03.656] did it, and all this sort of thing.

[00:33:03.656 – 00:33:05.926] Well, that blew my whole program right there.

[00:33:05.926 – 00:33:08.446] I mean, I had to start from scratch again.

[00:33:08.446 – 00:33:14.126] Thank God I had a sponsor that led me instead of somebody that just listened to me.

[00:33:14.126 – 00:33:24.306] Ano- what I did was I took my inventory from

[00:33:24.306 – 00:33:34.206] the time I came into AA until that moment when I took my inventory, from the day I came in.

[00:33:34.206 – 00:33:40.786] ‘Cause, you know, anyone would do the crazy things I did if they drank as much as I did.

[00:33:40.786 – 00:33:50.666] What I had to look at was the nature, and, and Eve brought that out, the nature, and that was part of me sober as well as it was drinking.

[00:33:50.666 – 00:33:56.806] I don’t need to write a book to know why I can be a mean so-and-so certain days.

[00:33:56.806 – 00:33:58.886] I know.

[00:33:58.886 – 00:34:08.506] So what I, what was suggested to me, and I suggest to people I sponsor, keep it within yourself.

[00:34:08.506 – 00:34:14.626] Take your inventory, and take the fifth step that way.

[00:34:14.626 – 00:34:25.806] Then after a while, as we get a little stronger and we go through the sixth and the seventh, the key steps, the forgotten steps, and into the eighth and ninth, you

[00:34:25.806 – 00:34:33.705] know, I found out my husband wasn’t as bad as I thought he was, and my mother was no different than any mother.

[00:34:33.705 – 00:34:37.226] She cared, and she loved, and I called it control.

[00:34:37.226 – 00:34:47.266] So I had to get well, and the only way for me to get well is to look at Sheila and have enough common sense to

[00:34:47.266 – 00:34:50.326] have a good sponsor help me look at Sheila.

[00:34:50.326 – 00:34:57.506] Now, I don’t know if that answers your question, but that’s what worked for me, and it still works for my today.

[00:34:57.506 – 00:35:07.616] I don’t like to make decisions on anything unless I talk to a confidant about it, ’cause I’m not

[00:35:07.616 – 00:35:09.686] much smarter than when I come into AA.

[00:35:09.686 – 00:35:13.326] The only thing I know now is how to stay sober one day at a time.

[00:35:13.326 – 00:35:13.826] Thank you.

[00:35:13.826 – 00:35:24.666] I, I think, uh, what

[00:35:24.666 – 00:35:25.606] was the father’s name?

[00:35:25.606 – 00:35:28.226] Used to come down here and speak two or three times a year.

[00:35:28.226 – 00:35:31.486] He used to say that, uh, the jackass is in the ditch.

[00:35:31.486 – 00:35:33.226] How he got there don’t make any difference.

[00:35:33.226 – 00:35:34.446] You know, just get him out.

[00:35:34.446 – 00:35:37.386] How I got to these rooms really doesn’t make any difference.

[00:35:37.386 – 00:35:42.246] And I, I would just like to say one thing here: the nature of the wrong.

[00:35:42.246 – 00:35:47.726] I wish more people would, would read into that what it says, the nature of the wrong.

[00:35:47.726 – 00:35:49.366] Andy, please.

[00:35:49.366 – 00:35:50.966] Yeah.

[00:35:50.966 – 00:36:03.116] Well, thank you.

[00:36:03.116 – 00:36:04.215] Good morning, everybody.

[00:36:04.215 – 00:36:04.215] Hi.

[00:36:04.215 – 00:36:08.465] Uh, I really like the saying around here, the, about balance in our program.

[00:36:08.465 – 00:36:09.916] And it just means to me 90/10, and then in my fourth month, I was happy making 90/10 each, 90/10 each, until it went balance in AA.

[00:36:09.916 – 00:36:10.366] What does the-

[00:36:20.793 – 00:36:30.893] Andy would like it established, uh, as, uh, really, uh, how do we arrive at this thing of balance in one’s life, uh, and to the one

[00:36:30.893 – 00:36:38.343] who addresses the question, uh, how many meetings a week do they make to maintain their sobriety?

[00:36:38.343 – 00:36:42.593] And I’ll offer that to anybody that would like to respond to it.

[00:36:42.593 – 00:36:45.053] Charles, would you like to get it or Clancy?

[00:36:45.053 – 00:36:45.972] Charles, please.

[00:36:45.972 – 00:36:57.873] It’s

[00:36:57.873 – 00:37:06.753] awfully hard to say how many meetings an individual needs because each one is different.

[00:37:06.753 – 00:37:16.033] Each one has different personalities, and I believe that some people need more meetings than others.

[00:37:16.033 – 00:37:26.043] Uh, I was a slow learner, and I had to spend all the time I could in and around Alcoholics Anonymous and

[00:37:26.043 – 00:37:28.493] with Alcoholics Anonymous members.

[00:37:28.493 – 00:37:36.873] I remember aft– You see, I was one of those people that, that always thought I knew more than I knew.

[00:37:36.873 – 00:37:39.433] See, I have my chair right on the very edge there.

[00:37:39.433 – 00:37:47.173] If I make one wrong move, it’s over into the- But I don’t care.

[00:37:47.173 – 00:37:53.633] Well, the balance is, uh, as has been said, it’s been really covered rather well here.

[00:37:53.633 – 00:37:55.233] Balance is an individual thing.

[00:37:55.233 – 00:38:01.573] I, uh, but I’ll tell you this: I’d rather go to one too many AA meetings a week than one too little.

[00:38:01.573 – 00:38:06.913] Yeah.

[00:38:06.913 – 00:38:07.483] Uh, when I…

[00:38:07.483 – 00:38:17.813] Something the young lady was just saying that, that caught my ear a little bit, uh, she said, “Once you, once you really want sobriety,

[00:38:17.813 – 00:38:20.572] then you’re all right,” and that’s true.

[00:38:20.572 – 00:38:27.813] But a great many people don’t really want sobriety until they’ve been sober a while, and you’ve gotta keep jumpstarting them around here.

[00:38:27.813 – 00:38:28.893] And they have…

[00:38:28.893 – 00:38:38.913] You know, we think about the, uh, in the third tradition, the only tradition that’s ever been changed since it first was printed,

[00:38:38.913 – 00:38:48.933] and it originally read, “The only requirement for membership is an honest desire to stop drinking.” And after it came out, they realized nobody’s got an honest desire to

[00:38:48.933 – 00:38:51.673] stop drinking when they come here, you know?

[00:38:51.673 – 00:38:54.373] That’s what they get after they’re here a while.

[00:38:54.373 – 00:38:58.013] So they took out the word honest in the next printing.

[00:38:58.013 – 00:39:08.233] Now it says, “The only requirement for membership is the desire to stop drinking,” because an honest– Like we say sometimes to newcomers, all we ask of you is honesty and open-mindedness and willingness.

[00:39:08.233 – 00:39:11.933] God, if they had that, if they had that, they wouldn’t have to come here.

[00:39:11.933 – 00:39:14.313] Yeah.

[00:39:14.313 – 00:39:16.453] That’s what we come here to try to get.

[00:39:16.453 – 00:39:26.473] And I think a, a lot of meetings is good because it begins to condition you, and it builds a little series of pickets in your picket fence between you and the abyss.

[00:39:26.473 – 00:39:29.873] And every human relationship you make helps a little.

[00:39:29.873 – 00:39:39.913] That doesn’t mean you’re gonna stay sober, but you’re liable not to disappoint friends if you have friends at the meeting or people who care for you or a sponsor for, instead of

[00:39:39.913 – 00:39:41.593] just being alone and floating.

[00:39:41.593 – 00:39:45.293] I’ve been sober, uh, I’m the youngest one on the panel.

[00:39:45.293 – 00:39:56.163] There’s an old saying that, uh, it doesn’t, it doesn’t apply here, but it’s something I- There’s

[00:39:56.163 – 00:40:03.473] a, there’s a guy in our group who just celebrated his ninetieth birthday and his fifteenth AA birthday.

[00:40:03.473 – 00:40:09.693] And I was asked to give a little talk and, because, uh, he and I chum around together a little bit.

[00:40:09.693 – 00:40:13.233] He said, “Why do you chum with him?” I said, “Well, there’s an old principle.

[00:40:13.233 – 00:40:23.353] If you want to look young and slender, hang with people that are old and fat.” Now, that

[00:40:23.353 – 00:40:24.953] obviously has nothing to do with this panel.

[00:40:24.953 – 00:40:35.013] But I’m the, I’m the youngest one here, and, uh, and I’ve heard, I’ve heard, uh,

[00:40:35.013 – 00:40:40.233] Eve before say that she, uh, had a desire to be a half-assed actor, actress.

[00:40:40.233 – 00:40:43.352] And since she’s taken off weight, you’ve made it at last, Eve.

[00:40:43.352 – 00:40:44.753] She, uh…

[00:40:44.753 – 00:40:54.833] But, uh, when I go to my– I never

[00:40:54.833 – 00:40:55.833] miss my home group.

[00:40:55.833 – 00:41:00.553] I used to miss it once a month to go speak, for example, ’cause we have, in California, we have a lot of speaker meetings.

[00:41:00.553 – 00:41:04.413] Over half the meetings in Los Angeles are speaker meetings, so you’re always out talking to someone.

[00:41:04.413 – 00:41:12.473] In our meeting list, we have over twenty-one hundred meetings now, and most of them are speaker meetings, unlike anywhere else in the world.

[00:41:12.473 – 00:41:16.513] When I say speaker meetings, I don’t mean where you, the speaker talks for a little while, then they have a discussion.

[00:41:16.513 – 00:41:18.873] I mean, just the speaker talks, and that’s the end of the meeting.

[00:41:18.873 – 00:41:22.383] So it’s, it’s like a convention in the sense, but very small.

[00:41:22.383 – 00:41:28.413] And my home group in Los Angeles is, uh, has become, I guess, over the years, the largest group in the world.

[00:41:28.413 – 00:41:37.393] Every Wednesday night, over a thousand people sit down, and they’re, say, one group, and they have coffee and everything, but they have a group of twenty people almost a thousand.

[00:41:37.393 – 00:41:39.953] And it’s active, but I always go to that.

[00:41:39.953 – 00:41:42.693] When I was twenty-five years sober, I took a vow.

[00:41:42.693 – 00:41:46.793] I am going to not talk anymore on Wednesday night or do anything on Wednesday night.

[00:41:46.793 – 00:41:48.313] I’m gonna make a commitment.

[00:41:48.313 – 00:41:56.073] I’m gonna be in that chair, because I’ve watched so many people who’ve been sober a while gradually get caught up in their own magnificence and float right out the top.

[00:41:56.073 – 00:41:58.993] As has been said here, you, uh, it’s so easy.

[00:41:58.993 – 00:42:05.073] One of the questions earlier today addressed the fact about the first step.

[00:42:05.073 – 00:42:15.073] And to me, the first step has an additional thing, and that is this: You come here and admit your problem, that you’re powerless over alcohol,

[00:42:15.073 – 00:42:17.933] and then as Charlie said, there’s a dash.

[00:42:17.933 – 00:42:23.717] But in the English language, a dash means end of thought, beginning of new thought.

[00:42:23.717 – 00:42:31.077] In addition to becoming powerless over alcohol, you are also admitting your life has become unmanageable.

[00:42:31.077 – 00:42:32.677] That isn’t because of drinking.

[00:42:32.677 – 00:42:35.977] That means when you’re not drinking, your life is unmanageable.

[00:42:35.977 – 00:42:38.637] And that’s why you have to keep going back to drinking.

[00:42:38.637 – 00:42:41.417] And you keep drinking and naturally you have to get sober.

[00:42:41.417 – 00:42:49.337] What you are admitting is drinking has become hopeless and sobriety has become hopeless.

[00:42:49.337 – 00:42:50.457] That’s what makes it terrible.

[00:42:50.457 – 00:42:54.597] If both of those conditions weren’t that way, no one would have to come here.

[00:42:54.597 – 00:42:58.037] If being sober made it all right, you’d say, I’m just going to be sober and that’s the end of it.

[00:42:58.037 – 00:43:00.677] Or if drinking was all right, you’d be drinking.

[00:43:00.677 – 00:43:08.237] But the first step says, I’m not making it drinking and I’m not making it sober.

[00:43:08.237 – 00:43:18.277] And when you get to be sober a long time, that is one of the really sly brute interruptions that make old-timers get drunk.

[00:43:18.277 – 00:43:26.037] Little by little, there comes the thing in your mind, my life is no longer unmanageable.

[00:43:26.037 – 00:43:28.377] You don’t really think it that way.

[00:43:28.377 – 00:43:30.377] You just act it out over a period of time.

[00:43:30.377 – 00:43:35.177] One day you really don’t need AA much anymore because you got it pretty well made.

[00:43:35.177 – 00:43:37.117] It’s very similar.

[00:43:37.117 – 00:43:43.477] The analogy I’ve always thought about is it’s like an ocean liner being at a big pier like in New York.

[00:43:43.477 – 00:43:48.437] And they pay vast amounts of rentals for these big hawsers to hold that baby there.

[00:43:48.437 – 00:43:50.757] It’s a lot of upkeep.

[00:43:50.757 – 00:43:53.537] So they say, well, we don’t need the one in midship steer.

[00:43:53.537 – 00:43:56.997] We got the bow and the stern and let’s get rid of that one.

[00:43:56.997 – 00:43:58.277] And still nothing happens.

[00:43:58.277 – 00:44:00.617] And a couple months later, the ship’s still there.

[00:44:00.617 – 00:44:04.177] Let’s take it off the bow and take it off the stern.

[00:44:04.177 – 00:44:07.077] And one day you got no hawsers at all and you’re doing fine.

[00:44:07.077 – 00:44:15.497] But then a storm comes up and all of a sudden you start to drift out and you say, you better get the hawsers down because it’s too late.

[00:44:15.497 – 00:44:17.417] And that happens a lot.

[00:44:17.417 – 00:44:18.997] That’s why old-timers get drunk.

[00:44:18.997 – 00:44:21.637] They no longer need help.

[00:44:21.637 – 00:44:32.037] And what that help consists of is continuing to submit your thinking and reasoning to the principles

[00:44:32.037 – 00:44:33.157] you have learned in AA.

[00:44:33.157 – 00:44:35.797] To just edit them as you go through them.

[00:44:35.797 – 00:44:38.417] No one’s ever going to become wonderful here or perfect.

[00:44:38.417 – 00:44:44.817] And no matter how hard you work the program or how long you stay sober, you’re never going to rise above being a human being.

[00:44:44.817 – 00:44:52.077] And human beings have negative thoughts and they have bad thoughts and they have, they get tired and they get crossed and they get emotional.

[00:44:52.077 – 00:45:00.757] And, you know, kind of one of the great emotional roller coasters of all time is reading the story of Bill Wilson after he was sober a long time.

[00:45:00.757 – 00:45:01.747] And Dr.

[00:45:01.747 – 00:45:03.117] Bob and all these.

[00:45:03.117 – 00:45:13.157] And yet we’d like to come to believe somehow that we’ll come here and work these steps and we will find a life of just perfect

[00:45:13.157 – 00:45:15.697] stillness and warmth and wonderfulness.

[00:45:15.697 – 00:45:19.097] We will come to know serenity forever.

[00:45:19.097 – 00:45:21.977] And I’ll tell you, you don’t do it.

[00:45:21.977 – 00:45:30.017] In my experience, I’ve never seen an alcoholic who could stand serenity more than a day and a half anyway.

[00:45:30.017 – 00:45:36.497] You know, it’s just You know.

[00:45:36.497 – 00:45:39.797] They say, oh, I’m serene and I love it.

[00:45:39.797 – 00:45:44.837] But after a while, their other hand dips into the septic tank and just starts to stir it up a little bit.

[00:45:44.837 – 00:45:47.997] Look what attacked me this time.

[00:45:47.997 – 00:45:53.277] Because we are not made that way.

[00:45:53.277 – 00:45:59.117] I go to a minimum of three meetings a week and usually more.

[00:45:59.117 – 00:46:06.297] I would think that anyone in AA should not go to less than two meetings a week, in my opinion.

[00:46:06.297 – 00:46:10.837] It may be one too many, but so what?

[00:46:10.837 – 00:46:11.417] One too many.

[00:46:11.417 – 00:46:15.537] Better to have one too many hawsers there than one too little.

[00:46:15.537 – 00:46:17.037] But go to four or five or six.

[00:46:17.037 – 00:46:20.917] My sponsor, Chuck C., was going to five and six meetings a week.

[00:46:20.917 – 00:46:27.477] And he was maybe as close to being the most active AA in the world, wouldn’t you say, at one time?

[00:46:27.477 – 00:46:32.597] And I know they say balance.

[00:46:32.597 – 00:46:36.397] The phrase they always use to indicate balance.

[00:46:36.397 – 00:46:38.257] The book says you return to normal living.

[00:46:38.257 – 00:46:41.197] It says normal living sitting in these goddamn meetings all the time.

[00:46:41.197 – 00:46:46.597] Normal living for me is sitting in the Texas insane asylum.

[00:46:46.597 – 00:46:52.037] I’d just sooner not return to that this year.

[00:46:52.037 – 00:46:56.697] Once is enough of those pukes.

[00:46:56.697 – 00:47:06.757] I know this, but I would rather The purpose of meeting Now, and I don’t think anybody here is telling you you have to go to meetings to learn new

[00:47:06.757 – 00:47:07.037] things.

[00:47:07.037 – 00:47:11.497] I haven’t heard a new thing in an AA meeting in 25 years.

[00:47:11.497 – 00:47:13.027] You don’t hear it.

[00:47:13.027 – 00:47:15.637] But every time you come out, you’re a little more centered.

[00:47:15.637 – 00:47:17.757] Your emotions are stabilized a little bit more.

[00:47:17.757 – 00:47:19.537] It continues to do the thing.

[00:47:19.537 – 00:47:25.117] It helps you remember that you can’t drink and of yourself you can’t stay sober.

[00:47:25.117 – 00:47:27.097] And that’s why you do these things.

[00:47:27.097 – 00:47:33.717] And I don’t There are a lot of people around AA who are trying to find out how little they can do.

[00:47:33.717 – 00:47:36.297] And I have one word for them.

[00:47:36.297 – 00:47:37.617] Adios.

[00:47:37.617 – 00:47:44.337] I want to stay with people who are trying to find out what they can do to enhance the good days.

[00:47:44.337 – 00:47:45.937] And I hope you do too.

[00:47:45.937 – 00:47:46.317] Thank you.

[00:47:46.317 – 00:47:57.057] Yes,

[00:47:57.057 – 00:48:03.397] I think we should certainly endorse that the best is yet to come because I certainly believe that it is.

[00:48:03.397 – 00:48:13.857] And I too, like many of you, have witnessed those that have come here and developed what I call the reader’s digest syndrome of alcoholism and have rolled off into the happy, happy sunset

[00:48:13.857 – 00:48:17.097] of a happy sobriety, never to drink or have problems again.

[00:48:17.097 – 00:48:18.417] And it’s tragic.

[00:48:18.417 – 00:48:20.677] We’ll wrap it up with you, honey.

[00:48:20.677 – 00:48:21.317] Please.

[00:48:21.317 – 00:48:36.691] Hi, Nancy Uh, yeah, when, when sponsor

[00:48:36.691 – 00:48:40.391] said that it was an easy way to recovery and remaining sober was sponsorship.

[00:48:40.391 – 00:48:41.251] But what did he mean?

[00:48:41.251 – 00:48:41.991] And how did sponsorship affect your daily progress?

[00:48:41.991 – 00:48:41.991] How did you sponsor ?

[00:48:41.991 – 00:48:42.661] Mm-hmm.

[00:48:42.661 – 00:48:52.061] She would like to know how having a sponsor, uh, affected your sobriety, both having a sponsor and being a sponsor.

[00:48:52.061 – 00:48:55.941] We’re gonna make this one a little quick on account of the time element here.

[00:48:55.941 – 00:49:05.601] So, uh, if any one of you would care to address that, why, please have a go at it, and we’ll only have one person answer this, again, because of the time.

[00:49:05.601 – 00:49:06.521] Please.

[00:49:06.521 – 00:49:07.861] Get that little timer over there to talk.

[00:49:07.861 – 00:49:08.581] Okay.

[00:49:08.581 – 00:49:10.281] Charlie?

[00:49:10.281 – 00:49:16.601] Very impressed with him.

[00:49:16.601 – 00:49:20.061] How did you- What was the question?

[00:49:20.061 – 00:49:24.321] Does your sponsorship- No …

[00:49:24.321 – 00:49:26.861] end up when your sponsor enters the room?

[00:49:26.861 – 00:49:27.751] No.

[00:49:27.751 – 00:49:32.331] How- She wants to know your experience with sponsorship, having a sponsor and being a sponsor.

[00:49:32.331 – 00:49:34.301] That’s all.

[00:49:34.301 – 00:49:36.021] I have a lot of sponsors.

[00:49:36.021 – 00:49:45.481] I, uh, I adopt sponsors, and I have sponsors that don’t even know that they are my sponsors.

[00:49:45.481 – 00:49:53.481] I have sponsors that show me what to do, and I have sponsors that show me what not to do.

[00:49:53.481 – 00:50:04.061] And those sponsors that show me what not to do are just as important or maybe more important than those sponsors

[00:50:04.061 – 00:50:08.501] that are continually telling me what to do and how to do it.

[00:50:08.501 – 00:50:16.601] But you, if, if you’re new in this program, maybe you don’t have a sponsor yet.

[00:50:16.601 – 00:50:27.081] I’d advise you to cabbage on to someone in whom you have implicit faith, in whom you believe

[00:50:27.081 – 00:50:36.201] that will, someone will tell you the truth, and continue to stay with that sponsor until you outgrow him.

[00:50:36.201 – 00:50:39.281] You’re gonna outgrow people.

[00:50:39.281 – 00:50:45.821] If you continue to grow and your sponsor’s already learned it all, he’s gonna stop growing.

[00:50:45.821 – 00:50:52.901] But what you want to do is to continue to grow, and you never will reach the zenith.

[00:50:52.901 – 00:51:00.481] The zenith is sainthood, and you’re never gonna get that good, and we wouldn’t like you if you did.

[00:51:00.481 – 00:51:07.181] And you wouldn’t even like yourself because you wouldn’t have nowhere to go, ’cause you couldn’t go to AA meetings.

[00:51:07.181 – 00:51:17.181] AA meetings are for people who have defects of character and all that sort of stuff that it tells you about in those 200

[00:51:17.181 – 00:51:20.421] words that we call our principles.

[00:51:20.421 – 00:51:23.341] The principles are the 12 steps.

[00:51:23.341 – 00:51:33.341] And they haven’t changed, and I don’t think they ever will change because every drunk that ever came into Alcoholics Anonymous

[00:51:33.341 – 00:51:41.100] had some suggestions about what to do to change the book, the steps, the, uh, every part of it.

[00:51:41.100 – 00:51:45.721] So, uh, enjoy your sponsor.

[00:51:45.721 – 00:51:48.061] Get another one.

[00:51:48.061 – 00:51:49.741] Get more than one sponsor.

[00:51:49.741 – 00:51:59.821] I don’t mean to have more than one sponsor so that you can go to one to prove what the other one said or to disprove what the other one said do

[00:51:59.821 – 00:52:00.721] or not do.

[00:52:00.721 – 00:52:10.821] Sponsorship is, uh, an awesome responsibility because some people put you on a pedestal,

[00:52:10.821 – 00:52:14.941] and we do not belong on pedestals.

[00:52:14.941 – 00:52:17.961] Nobody belongs on a pedestal.

[00:52:17.961 – 00:52:24.221] We might tell you some things that are for your own good, and we might make you angry doing it.

[00:52:24.221 – 00:52:30.161] And sometimes it’s to your advantage to get pretty angry about yourself.

[00:52:30.161 – 00:52:37.361] If you get mad enough at yourself, sometimes you’ll do something about it, and sometimes that’s good.

[00:52:37.361 – 00:52:41.041] But, uh, sponsorship is a very difficult thing.

[00:52:41.041 – 00:52:43.701] Girls ought to sponsor girls.

[00:52:43.701 – 00:52:46.780] Boys ought to sponsor boys.

[00:52:46.780 – 00:52:57.161] And if you get to page, what is it, 69 or 68, and you get to talking about sex, you girls go talk to girls,

[00:52:57.161 – 00:52:59.281] and you boys go talk to boys.

[00:52:59.281 – 00:53:09.421] And if you have a special boy and you’re a girl, and you happen to be married to him, talk to one another about it and help one

[00:53:09.421 – 00:53:09.841] another.

[00:53:09.841 – 00:53:16.541] That’s a very important part of living, a, an awfully important part of staying sober.

[00:53:16.541 – 00:53:26.541] But there are a whole lot of important things about staying sober, and there’s a whole lot of important things about loving, and there’s a whole lot of important

[00:53:26.541 – 00:53:28.581] things about being serious.

[00:53:28.581 – 00:53:33.481] There’s a whole lot of important things about faith and fear.

[00:53:33.481 – 00:53:35.921] Faith and fear can’t coexist.

[00:53:35.921 – 00:53:42.921] So work on yourself, and work on yourself continually, and I’m going upstairs and read the big book.

[00:53:42.921 – 00:53:48.911] I’m going to watch the football game.

[00:53:48.911 – 00:53:50.831] We’re out of time, folks.

[00:53:50.831 – 00:53:53.060] I certainly want to thank our panel.

[00:53:53.060 – 00:53:56.271] I would like to thank all our other old-timers who are visiting with us.

[00:53:56.271 – 00:53:58.601] Let’s give them all a big round of applause, please.

[00:53:58.601 – 00:54:11.941] And

[00:54:11.941 – 00:54:14.921] let us close this one like we usually do, if you will, please.

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