Conversation with Pat Y presented by Conversation with Pat Y – 2025-11-25

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Unknown Tuesday Night History Workshop • 2025

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Unknown ABOUT THIS WORKSHOP

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Unknown Conversation with Pat Y speaking on "Conversation with Pat Y" in Tuesday Night History Workshop (November 25, 2025). This recording is preserved in high-fidelity with interactive scrolling transcripts.

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Unknown Interactive Transcript

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[00 00:08.519 – 00:00:11.960] Welcome to the Tuesday Night Recovery Speakers History Workshop.

0:14

[00 00:11.960 – 00:00:12.880] Thanks for joining us.

0:15

[00 00:12.880 – 00:00:13.640] My name's Mike.

0:16

[00 00:13.640 – 00:00:23.079] Tonight's presentation is Conversation With a Longtimer with Pat Y, and it will be led by Polly.

0:22

[00 00:23.079 – 00:00:24.960] Or Penny, excuse me.

0:23

[00 00:24.960 – 00:00:29.239] We meet here every Tuesday at the same time using the same Zoom ID.

0:27

[00 00:29.239 – 00:00:32.740] Next week will be Miley T.

0:29

[00 00:32.740 – 00:00:33.880] presenting Mrs.

0:30

[00 00:33.880 – 00:00:35.939] Marty Mann, Early AA One.

0:32

[00 00:35.939 – 00:00:42.679] This meeting is recorded and all past audio presentations are available at recoveryspeakers.com.

0:36

[00 00:42.679 – 00:00:52.799] We are not affiliated with any 12-step organization, though our focus is the history of AA and other 12-step fellowships.

0:42

[00 00:52.799 – 00:01:03.219] Recoveryspeakers.com is a 501[c]3 non-profit dedicated to preserving and sharing the audio history of AA and the 12-step movement

0:48

[00 01:03.219 – 00:01:05.500] today and for future generations.

0:50

[00 01:05.500 – 00:01:14.799] We also send a daily email featuring a speaker talk from our archive, recordings from these meetings, and information on upcoming presentations.

0:57

[00 01:14.799 – 00:01:21.280] To subscribe, use the link in the chat or email me at info@recoveryspeakers.com.

1:01

[00 01:21.280 – 00:01:26.319] If you're able to support our work, contributions are appreciated.

1:05

[00 01:26.319 – 00:01:31.540] Donation link will be in the chat, or you can use the QR code on the screen.

1:10

[00 01:31.540 – 00:01:38.219] We'll have questions and answers at the end, so please have your questions prepared.

1:14

[00 01:38.219 – 00:01:48.500] I'm gonna close the chat now, but you can still message us directly, and we will open it up after the presentation.

1:21

[00 01:48.500 – 00:01:51.180] So now I will hand it off.

1:23

[00 01:51.180 – 00:01:52.700] Penny, if you'd like to get started.

1:25

[00 01:52.700 – 00:01:53.620] Thank you.

1:26

[00 01:53.620 – 00:01:56.579] Thanks, Mike.

1:27

[00 01:56.579 – 00:02:01.079] Um, grateful to, to have everybody here.

1:29

[00 02:01.079 – 00:02:02.620] Hi, my name is Penny P.

1:31

[00 02:02.620 – 00:02:09.599] I'm, uh, I'm an alcoholic, and this is Conversation With a Longtimer.

1:35

[00 02:09.599 – 00:02:15.150] For those of you who have been here before, thank you so much for your support and welcome back.

1:41

[00 02:15.150 – 00:02:25.199] For those of you that this may be your first time at this particular meeting, um, let me just say that this is a little, uh, different

1:49

[00 02:25.199 – 00:02:27.199] style than what we're used to.

1:51

[00 02:27.199 – 00:02:28.879] Uh, it's not a speaker meeting.

1:53

[00 02:28.879 – 00:02:33.060] I will be having a conversation with our guest this evening, Pat Y.

1:57

[00 02:33.060 – 00:02:43.199] And, um, so for those of you that, um, that are wondering why I'm asking her questions instead of just

2:03

[00 02:43.199 – 00:02:45.599] letting her tell her story, that's the reason.

2:06

[00 02:45.599 – 00:02:55.879] Um, this came about because I was, um, listening to our friend Nancy K., who does, uh, who does

2:11

[00 02:55.879 – 00:03:06.289] several talks on Recovery Speakers, talk about pioneering women in AA, and people were asking questions that we couldn't answer because

2:18

[00 03:06.289 – 00:03:07.240] they're not present.

2:19

[00 03:07.240 – 00:03:11.180] And I kept thinking, "Wait a minute, we've got all these longtimers.

2:22

[00 03:11.180 – 00:03:21.539] Why aren't we talking to the longtimers we have?" So, um, all of our longtimers have 50 or more years of sobriety and, um,

2:29

[00 03:21.539 – 00:03:25.060] and we just have a little conversation about Alcoholics Anonymous.

2:33

[00 03:25.060 – 00:03:26.360] So we're grateful you're here.

2:34

[00 03:26.360 – 00:03:36.379] This is always the last Tuesday of the month and, um, w- we will, I will be chatting with Pat, and then

2:41

[00 03:36.379 – 00:03:41.060] we will, um, take questions from the audience at the end of the meeting.

2:45

[00 03:41.060 – 00:03:44.500] Um, please, uh, have a question ready.

2:48

[00 03:44.500 – 00:03:46.180] This, it's not a time to share.

2:50

[00 03:46.180 – 00:03:56.319] It's really a time to, to ask a question about, to clarify something that Pat may have shared or to, um, to ask a question that you thought of while

2:59

[00 03:56.319 – 00:03:57.199] she was sharing.

3:00

[00 03:57.199 – 00:04:00.259] So let me, um...

3:01

[00 04:00.259 – 00:04:08.860] Let me see how I do spotlight for everyone.

3:04

[00 04:08.860 – 00:04:13.819] And then, um, add spotlight.

3:06

[00 04:13.819 – 00:04:15.079] There we go.

3:07

[00 04:15.079 – 00:04:20.500] So Pat, welcome to Conversation With a Longtimer.

3:10

[00 04:20.500 – 00:04:22.718] Thank you so much for being willing to do this.

3:13

[00 04:22.718 – 00:04:24.660] I'm so grateful you're here.

3:15

[00 04:24.660 – 00:04:34.680] And would you, um, introduce us, uh, introduce yourself, give us your name, your sobriety date, um, your home group, um, your vital statistics

3:22

[00 04:34.680 – 00:04:36.220] in Alcoholics Anonymous?

3:23

[00 04:36.220 – 00:04:37.800] My name is Pat Y.

3:25

[00 04:37.800 – 00:04:39.040] I'm an alcoholic.

3:26

[00 04:39.040 – 00:04:42.620] My sobriety date is August 28th, 1975.

3:28

[00 04:42.620 – 00:04:45.420] Uh, my home group is the Pacific Group.

3:30

[00 04:45.420 – 00:04:48.600] Um, I don't know.

3:32

[00 04:48.600 – 00:04:51.019] Did you a- Was there something else that I missed?

3:35

[00 04:51.019 – 00:04:52.339] Nope, that's good.

3:36

[00 04:52.339 – 00:04:52.980] That's good.

3:37

[00 04:52.980 – 00:04:59.519] So, um, we, uh, usually don't ask, um, to share a drinking story.

3:41

[00 04:59.519 – 00:05:03.718] We wanna get right into talking about recovery, talking about sobriety.

3:44

[00 05:03.718 – 00:05:06.600] So August 28th, 1975.

3:46

[00 05:06.600 – 00:05:10.540] Um, you and I have known each other for years, so I've heard your story.

3:50

[00 05:10.540 – 00:05:20.639] I know a little bit about your story, but what was going on that, um, you decided in August of 1975 that coming to a meeting

3:58

[00 05:20.639 – 00:05:25.339] of Alcoholics Anonymous might be a good idea?

4:00

[00 05:25.339 – 00:05:33.939] Well, um, you know, I used to say I have no idea what triggered the idea to call Alcoholics Anonymous.

4:06

[00 05:33.939 – 00:05:36.120] Actually called on the 27th.

4:08

[00 05:36.120 – 00:05:41.040] Um, of course, I believe today that God probably had a hand in that.

4:12

[00 05:41.040 – 00:05:43.079] But at the time, I just thought, you know, I don't know.

4:16

[00 05:43.079 – 00:05:53.079] I was drunk when I called AA, and I got a woman on the phone who talked to me, uh, or g- uh, rather a guy on the phone who talked to me quite, it seemed like a long time, and gave

4:28

[00 05:53.079 – 00:05:56.019] me the address of a meeting for August 28th.

4:31

[00 05:56.019 – 00:06:06.379] And I, um, actually went to the meeting at, on, on the day of the 28th when I, you know, I came to, and I didn't think it was quite such a good idea

4:41

[00 06:06.379 – 00:06:07.399] to go to AA.

4:43

[00 06:07.399 – 00:06:09.139] I thought it had been maybe a little premature.

4:46

[00 06:09.139 – 00:06:10.120] I was 30 years old.

4:47

[00 06:10.120 – 00:06:17.000] Clearly, that's too young to be an alcoholic, but I found myself in that meeting that night anyway, and it was the beginning.

4:54

[00 06:17.000 – 00:06:19.860] H- H- How had...

4:56

[00 06:19.860 – 00:06:22.300] Had you heard about Alcoholics Anonymous before?

4:58

[00 06:22.300 – 00:06:24.579] Did you know about Alcoholics Anonymous?

5:00

[00 06:24.579 – 00:06:28.699] Had- Um, well, I, you know, I'm a big reader, so of course I'd read things about it.

5:05

[00 06:28.699 – 00:06:38.718] I actually had a, um, uncle who theoretically was in AA, but I actually drank with him a few times, so I would guess in retrospect he wasn't

5:14

[00 06:38.720 – 00:06:41.120] actually in AA, but, but he talked about it.

5:17

[00 06:41.120 – 00:06:44.050] And so I, you know, I was aware, but I, I, I really didn't-

5:21

[00 06:44.279 – 00:06:47.419] I mean, I just knew it was a place people go not to drink, and I had no...

5:26

[00 06:47.419 – 00:06:52.359] I really had the idea, like so many people say, it's a bunch of old men in trench coats.

5:32

[00 06:52.359 – 00:06:58.358] I mean, I did- I really honestly thought I was way too young and, you know, but, but I came anyway.

5:38

[00 06:58.358 – 00:06:59.739] Yeah.

5:39

[00 06:59.739 – 00:07:03.719] I knew about AA because of Ann Landers and Dear Abby.

5:42

[00 07:03.719 – 00:07:04.049] Yeah.

5:43

[00 07:04.049 – 00:07:04.519] And it was...

5:44

[00 07:04.519 – 00:07:05.269] Yeah.

5:45

[00 07:05.269 – 00:07:07.879] So yeah, those, those of us of a certain age.

5:48

[00 07:07.879 – 00:07:08.279] Yeah.

5:48

[00 07:08.279 – 00:07:13.959] But I also had that trench coat idea, and a smoky room.

5:52

[00 07:13.959 – 00:07:14.709] Oh, yeah.

5:53

[00 07:14.709 – 00:07:18.289] And I thought, I thought- Well, they were smoky rooms then, so They were.

5:57

[00 07:18.289 – 00:07:21.639] I thought they were all gonna have a flask in their pocket for some- Yeah.

6:02

[00 07:21.639 – 00:07:23.339] For some reason.

6:03

[00 07:23.339 – 00:07:24.899] So, um, so you went to...

6:05

[00 07:24.899 – 00:07:26.359] You didn't have a 12-step call.

6:07

[00 07:26.359 – 00:07:28.539] You went to your first meeting by yourself.

6:10

[00 07:28.539 – 00:07:36.179] So what was that like walking into that AA meeting knowing nothing- Well, I'll actually tell this story.

6:15

[00 07:36.179 – 00:07:40.519] I probably shouldn't, because this guy really was breaking the rules.

6:19

[00 07:40.519 – 00:07:50.019] When I called central office, the guy who answered gave me the address of a meet- I lived in the Santa Monica area, and he gave me an address of this meeting in Santa Monica.

6:29

[00 07:50.019 – 00:07:53.099] And he said, "If you would like, I could meet you.

6:32

[00 07:53.099 – 00:07:57.369] There's a restaurant on the corner, like a half a block away from the meeting hall.

6:37

[00 07:57.369 – 00:08:05.859] I could meet you on that corner so you don't have to walk in alone." This is so against, I think, what the rules are when you're working the phones at central office, but regardless, he said that.

6:49

[00 08:05.859 – 00:08:13.599] And so I said, "Okay, so we're gonna meet at whatever time in front of Zuki's Restaurant." So, um, I didn't go there.

6:56

[00 08:13.599 – 00:08:15.279] I just went straight to the meeting.

6:58

[00 08:15.279 – 00:08:21.519] He went there, and he's standing on the street corner, and he realized that he hadn't, um, asked what I looked like.

7:04

[00 08:21.519 – 00:08:22.059] Was I young?

7:06

[00 08:22.059 – 00:08:22.639] Was I old?

7:07

[00 08:22.639 – 00:08:23.559] He had no idea.

7:08

[00 08:23.559 – 00:08:29.499] So every time a woman walked down the street alone, he would sort of approach her, and, you know, they'd look at him weird.

7:15

[00 08:29.499 – 00:08:31.299] And he finally thought, "I have to leave here.

7:18

[00 08:31.299 – 00:08:40.279] I'm gonna get arrested for, you know, loitering and accosting women." We actually found, figured it out about a month later that, that that's who I was, so...

7:27

[00 08:40.279 – 00:08:41.809] But anyway, so I went to the meeting.

7:29

[00 08:41.809 – 00:08:44.639] I forgot the original question, but I got to the meeting.

7:33

[00 08:44.639 – 00:08:47.499] Um, it was, uh, an 8:30 meeting.

7:35

[00 08:47.499 – 00:08:51.439] I got there, of course, at 8:28, and I was sober.

7:38

[00 08:51.439 – 00:08:53.999] I was, like, stark raving sober.

7:40

[00 08:53.999 – 00:08:55.289] I didn't drink that day.

7:42

[00 08:55.289 – 00:08:57.279] I needed a drink badly.

7:43

[00 08:57.279 – 00:08:58.828] I, I was a daily drinker.

7:45

[00 08:58.828 – 00:09:05.219] Sometimes by that time of the evening I'm already drunk and passed out, so I, I needed a drink real bad that night.

7:52

[00 09:05.219 – 00:09:15.279] And I got to that, uh, door, and there was a man, Clint Hodges, at the door who put out his hand and said, "Welcome to Alcoholics Anonymous," and it made

8:01

[00 09:15.279 – 00:09:16.999] me feel welcome.

8:03

[00 09:16.999 – 00:09:18.579] He later became a good friend.

8:05

[00 09:18.579 – 00:09:25.239] But you know, that night I was just terrified, and that moment, um, got me in the door, you know?

8:11

[00 09:25.239 – 00:09:29.179] So you walk in.

8:12

[00 09:29.179 – 00:09:32.459] It's, i- it's almost time for the meeting to start.

8:15

[00 09:32.459 – 00:09:34.859] You have to find a place to sit.

8:18

[00 09:34.859 – 00:09:37.359] You have to figure out, how does this thing work?

8:21

[00 09:37.359 – 00:09:39.939] What was that first meeting like?

8:23

[00 09:39.939 – 00:09:40.189] Do you remember?

8:24

[00 09:40.189 – 00:09:44.959] Well, after I w- walked in the door, now of course it's 8:29, and e- and everybody's milling around.

8:30

[00 09:44.959 – 00:09:51.559] There were, like, 200, maybe 300 people at that meeting, so everybody's milling around getting their seats, and I'm like a deer in headlights.

8:36

[00 09:51.559 – 00:09:58.839] And a man came out of the crowd and asked me if I was new, and I couldn't imagine how he knew that, but he seemed to, and I said yes.

8:45

[00 09:58.839 – 00:10:05.059] And he got me a seat in the back of the room, and he got me a big book, and, um, and I, and I sat down.

8:53

[00 10:05.059 – 00:10:08.119] You know, I, uh, I had no idea what was going on.

8:57

[00 10:08.119 – 00:10:09.139] It was a speaker meeting.

8:59

[00 10:09.139 – 00:10:15.259] Uh, the speaker was, um, a man by the name of Norm Alpee, and I, I love saying his name.

9:05

[00 10:15.259 – 00:10:17.059] Uh, I, I heard him, you know?

9:07

[00 10:17.059 – 00:10:20.719] I, I believed that he was...

9:09

[00 10:20.719 – 00:10:22.739] that he drank the way I drank.

9:12

[00 10:22.739 – 00:10:24.779] I believed that he was sober.

9:14

[00 10:24.779 – 00:10:26.279] I could see that he was sober.

9:16

[00 10:26.279 – 00:10:29.259] I believed that he was this happy, joyous guy.

9:19

[00 10:29.259 – 00:10:31.959] I mean, I could feel that way in the back of the room where I was sitting.

9:24

[00 10:31.959 – 00:10:39.699] Uh, I don't know that if I would've told you this that night, but it is clear to me that what I got that night is a little bit of hope.

9:33

[00 10:39.699 – 00:10:43.539] I knew that I would never feel the way that guy feels.

9:37

[00 10:43.539 – 00:10:44.679] You can't get from here to there.

9:39

[00 10:44.679 – 00:10:54.839] But maybe if I do what you do, you kept saying, "Do what we do." I didn't have a clue what that was, but maybe if I do whatever it is, maybe I can stay sober, so just

9:50

[00 10:54.839 – 00:10:55.419] enough hope.

9:51

[00 10:55.419 – 00:10:59.809] What a gift to have Norm Ap- Norm Alpee as the speaker- For sure ...

9:56

[00 10:59.809 – 00:11:00.919] at your very first meeting.

9:57

[00 11:00.919 – 00:11:02.079] For sure.

9:58

[00 11:02.079 – 00:11:07.179] Oh, what, that, I love, I love that story, s- which is why I had to ask that question.

10:04

[00 11:07.179 – 00:11:16.639] So then the meeting ends, and now do you just bolt out the door, or what happens after the meeting ends?

10:10

[00 11:16.639 – 00:11:17.639] S- so the meeting ends.

10:12

[00 11:17.639 – 00:11:18.979] They're saying the Lord's Prayer.

10:14

[00 11:18.979 – 00:11:19.779] We're holding hands.

10:15

[00 11:19.779 – 00:11:20.899] We're saying the Lord's Prayer.

10:17

[00 11:20.899 – 00:11:30.159] At the end of the prayer when they said, "Keep coming back," excuse me, when they said, "Keep coming back," the two people on either side of me squeezed my hand.

10:26

[00 11:30.159 – 00:11:32.199] I thought that was so lovely.

10:28

[00 11:32.199 – 00:11:34.379] I did not know the entire room was doing that.

10:31

[00 11:34.379 – 00:11:35.719] I thought it was just these two people.

10:34

[00 11:35.719 – 00:11:36.819] I was so touched.

10:35

[00 11:36.819 – 00:11:40.139] But the minute they dropped my hands, I was out the door.

10:39

[00 11:40.139 – 00:11:42.339] I am, like, stark raving sober.

10:41

[00 11:42.339 – 00:11:44.359] There is no way I can chat with you.

10:44

[00 11:44.359 – 00:11:45.539] I don't chat sober.

10:45

[00 11:45.539 – 00:11:47.059] I'm incapable.

10:46

[00 11:47.059 – 00:11:49.439] Um, but I had the book, and I went home, you know?

10:50

[00 11:49.439 – 00:11:52.759] And I, uh, I, I did not talk to anybody.

10:53

[00 11:52.759 – 00:11:55.419] Uh, I really shot out the door.

10:55

[00 11:55.419 – 00:12:02.059] So s- for me, I, um, I, I'm not sure that...

10:59

[00 12:02.059 – 00:12:05.359] I, I don't know that it's a miracle that I got to my first meeting.

11:03

[00 12:05.359 – 00:12:14.019] What the miracle is for me is that I came back to my second meeting, that I w- that I came back to AA after I had seen you.

11:12

[00 12:14.019 – 00:12:20.039] So what got you, did you get to another meeting the next night, or how did you get- Oh, God, no.

11:18

[00 12:20.039 – 00:12:22.519] Me neither.

11:19

[00 12:22.519 – 00:12:23.069] No, no.

11:20

[00 12:23.069 – 00:12:29.679] That was a Saturday night, and, um, I didn't drink until the following Friday, and I was a daily drinker.

11:26

[00 12:29.679 – 00:12:33.449] And I'd, and every day I kept thinking, "Wow, AA really works.

11:30

[00 12:33.449 – 00:12:39.399] This is great." And then on Friday I was drunk, and I remember thinking, "I, I don't know how I could be drunk.

11:37

[00 12:39.399 – 00:12:49.438] I'm in AA now." Well, I was not in AA, not even quite close, but, uh, so I went back to the meeting Saturday night, and I raised my hand for being under a week of sobriety again, and

11:48

[00 12:49.439 – 00:12:52.659] I got s- now, I got phone numbers the first night, but I didn't call any of them.

11:54

[00 12:52.659 – 00:12:52.849] Right.

11:54

[00 12:52.849 – 00:12:53.919] I, I don't know these people.

11:56

[00 12:53.919 – 00:12:55.339] What in the world would I say, you know?

11:59

[00 12:55.339 – 00:13:00.459] But one of these ladies sat down and chatted with me a little bit and encouraged me to call her.

12:05

[00 13:00.459 – 00:13:04.279] And I drank a couple more times over, over that weekend, and then I, and then I called her.

12:11

[00 13:04.279 – 00:13:09.719] I was drunk when I called her, and she said, um, something like, "You know, you, you really should get a sponsor.

12:17

[00 13:09.719 – 00:13:19.739] You're not doing very well on your own." And I said, "I don't know what that is or how to get one." And she said, "I'll be your sponsor." So, uh, so now you have a sponsor,

12:28

[00 13:19.739 – 00:13:25.359] and you've got a meeting schedule, and somebody has said to you that you can go to a meeting every day.

12:35

[00 13:25.359 – 00:13:25.539] Yeah.

12:35

[00 13:25.539 – 00:13:28.159] Has suggested that that might be a good idea

12:38

[00 13:29.072 – 00:13:34.912] Um, so what is early AA like for you in that first year, those first few months?

12:43

[00 13:34.912 – 00:13:42.252] How did you, how did you find m- meetings and how did you get to become a part of the fellowship?

12:50

[00 13:42.252 – 00:13:42.632] Okay.

12:50

[00 13:42.632 – 00:13:43.232] Well, I got ...

12:51

[00 13:43.232 – 00:13:43.892] I ...

12:52

[00 13:43.892 – 00:13:51.711] By a stroke of absolute luck, my first meeting was the Pacific Group, and that remains my home group to this day.

12:59

[00 13:51.711 – 00:13:53.032] Um, my sponsor ...

13:00

[00 13:53.032 – 00:13:56.132] So I, I met this woman, who just became my sponsor, on the phone.

13:04

[00 13:56.132 – 00:14:06.372] I met her the next night, this turned out to be August 28th, and, um, she circled a meeting in the meeting directory for every night of the week and said that these are the meetings

13:15

[00 14:06.372 – 00:14:07.172] I would go to.

13:16

[00 14:07.172 – 00:14:17.412] And I, uh, explained to her that I was a married woman and my husband, uh, wasn't gonna buy this at all, and she said something like, "You know, it doesn't matter if he likes

13:26

[00 14:17.412 – 00:14:27.512] it, it doesn't matter if you like it." She said, "I guarantee you if you come to these meetings regularly and you take these steps and these simple suggestions that I'm gonna give you, your life

13:37

[00 14:27.512 – 00:14:36.052] is gonna change." I didn't, um, I didn't have any reason to believe her, but I agreed to do what she was asking me to do.

13:45

[00 14:36.052 – 00:14:46.332] And I have said this before, and I, I really believe it to be true, I think it is not a coincidence that my sobriety date coincides with the day that I had that conversation with my sponsor.

13:56

[00 14:46.332 – 00:14:49.532] I believe that at that moment I had taken the first three steps.

14:00

[00 14:49.532 – 00:14:57.022] You know, I didn't of course know anything about the steps, but I had com- you know, I admitted there was a problem, I had completely turned myself into Alcoholics Anonymous.

14:09

[00 14:57.022 – 00:14:59.302] And I started doing what she asked me to do.

14:13

[00 14:59.302 – 00:15:00.431] I was not happy about it.

14:15

[00 15:00.431 – 00:15:02.082] I was right, my husband didn't like it.

14:17

[00 15:02.082 – 00:15:06.152] We started arguing all the time about me coming to AA.

14:21

[00 15:06.152 – 00:15:10.672] I started taking these steps and, um, you know, I'm t- I'm not a happy camper.

14:25

[00 15:10.672 – 00:15:16.572] I remember my sponsor told me to write my inventory, and I used to say it took me six months to write it.

14:32

[00 15:16.572 – 00:15:24.852] The truth of the matter is, sh- I don't know, it's maybe, I don't know how long, sober four months maybe when she t- I, I really don't know, but a while, when she told me to write it.

14:44

[00 15:24.852 – 00:15:29.532] And, and a couple weeks later she said, "How's that inventory coming?" And I said, "Well, I'm, I'm working on it," you know?

14:51

[00 15:29.532 – 00:15:33.932] And then, I don't know, finally after a considerable period of time she said, "Okay.

14:55

[00 15:33.932 – 00:15:42.672] Well, let's wrap it up and come over next Tuesday night and we'll do your fifth step." So that was, I think, a Thursday, and I c- you know, so it actually, it took me three days to write my inventory.

15:07

[00 15:42.672 – 00:15:42.802] Right.

15:08

[00 15:42.802 – 00:15:48.232] So anyway, I'm, I'm going to meetings and I'm arguing with my husband every, every night.

15:13

[00 15:48.232 – 00:15:52.252] He thinks, um, that I'm coming to Alcoholics Anonymous to meet men.

15:17

[00 15:52.252 – 00:16:02.492] I don't know that I mentioned earlier, I cheated on him all the time when I was drinking, and now I'm sober and I'm not cheating on him, but that's only because nobody in AA appears to be interested

15:28

[00 16:02.492 – 00:16:04.592] in me, which hurt my feelings.

15:30

[00 16:04.592 – 00:16:09.392] And I was pretty upset that he was accusing me of something that I was not actually doing at that moment.

15:37

[00 16:09.392 – 00:16:11.762] And so I really felt sorry for myself.

15:39

[00 16:11.762 – 00:16:13.652] I cried at every meeting I went to.

15:42

[00 16:13.652 – 00:16:23.652] I, I know that people think I'm exaggerating when I say that, but my friend Suzy, who is, was, who's now deceased but was sober a couple years more than me, was sitting in a meeting

15:52

[00 16:23.652 – 00:16:29.592] one time when I said that, and I heard her say in her stage whisper, "Oh yes, she did." So I guess it's true.

16:00

[00 16:29.592 – 00:16:34.072] I cr- I felt so sorry for myself, but I kept coming back.

16:04

[00 16:34.072 – 00:16:34.221] Yeah.

16:04

[00 16:34.221 – 00:16:36.031] I kept doing the things, you know?

16:06

[00 16:36.031 – 00:16:40.132] I was a cr- I cried at every meeting.

16:09

[00 16:40.132 – 00:16:50.112] I remember, I remember a guy coming up to me one time after I had spoken somewhere, and he said, "You owe me five bucks." And I said, "For what?" And he said, "You didn't cry tonight.

16:20

[00 16:50.112 – 00:16:56.392] You always cry." I'll tell you a turning point for me about crying.

16:24

[00 16:56.392 – 00:16:56.712] At the ...

16:25

[00 16:56.712 – 00:16:58.772] I don't know, I was sober maybe a year when this happened.

16:29

[00 16:58.772 – 00:17:06.792] I was standing in line to thank a s- a speaker, and Maryanne K., who was sober a couple years more than me, was standing in line in front of me.

16:38

[00 17:06.792 – 00:17:10.632] And she turned around, and this is my, this is how I remember it.

16:42

[00 17:10.632 – 00:17:20.832] She turned around, looked down her nose at me, and said in this tone of voice, "Oh, and how is the queen of tragedy tonight?" I was so

16:51

[00 17:20.832 – 00:17:27.192] embarrassed, I was so hurt, but I'll tell you what, I started not crying so much in meetings after that.

16:57

[00 17:27.192 – 00:17:28.432] I wanted her to like me.

16:59

[00 17:28.432 – 00:17:28.762] I want ...

17:00

[00 17:28.762 – 00:17:30.832] You know, you want old-timers to like you.

17:02

[00 17:30.832 – 00:17:33.512] Um, so it was a, it was a real turning point.

17:06

[00 17:33.512 – 00:17:38.412] I didn't know it at the time, but it is very clear to me in retrospect that that was a huge turning point for me.

17:13

[00 17:38.412 – 00:17:44.592] So, um, your sponsor's taking you through the steps.

17:16

[00 17:44.592 – 00:17:46.212] You made reference to the fourth step.

17:18

[00 17:46.212 – 00:17:56.412] So I know that in, uh, for me in, uh, in the '70s when I got sober, um, I got sober in a group that was

17:26

[00 17:56.412 – 00:18:05.312] using the big book and was talking about the steps, not the way a lot of people do them today, sit down and, you know, eyeball to eyeball, knee to knee.

17:36

[00 18:05.312 – 00:18:08.942] But, um, how did your sponsor take you through the steps?

17:39

[00 18:08.942 – 00:18:12.652] How did you get into the big book and get into the literature?

17:43

[00 18:12.652 – 00:18:17.452] Um, my sponsor said, "Read that book." That was when I was very new.

17:47

[00 18:17.452 – 00:18:23.412] She said, "Start reading that book, and if you have any questions, you know, let's talk about it." But so I ...

17:54

[00 18:23.412 – 00:18:25.772] You know, it's not like I sat down and read it that night.

17:58

[00 18:25.772 – 00:18:29.592] But I started reading it, and, and she would check in with you once in a while.

18:03

[00 18:29.592 – 00:18:34.032] You know, "Are you, you reading that book?" "Yeah, I am." And then as I mentioned, you know, I was doing my fourth step.

18:10

[00 18:34.032 – 00:18:41.372] And I, I, um, you know, in that day, a- and at that time, I didn't know anybody whose sponsor sat down with them and read the big book.

18:19

[00 18:41.372 – 00:18:43.921] We were all just told, "Read the book," you know?

18:22

[00 18:43.921 – 00:18:46.192] Um, so ...

18:23

[00 18:46.192 – 00:18:46.762] Excuse me.

18:24

[00 18:46.762 – 00:18:53.972] So I, I read and, uh, and I, uh, went over to her house one night and, and, uh, did my fifth step.

18:31

[00 18:53.972 – 00:19:00.312] And, um, you know, I had, uh, I had written ...

18:34

[00 19:00.312 – 00:19:03.012] You know, we all, I think, have the big secret, you know?

18:37

[00 19:03.012 – 00:19:03.282] Mm-hmm.

18:38

[00 19:03.282 – 00:19:04.492] And I certainly had a big secret.

18:40

[00 19:04.492 – 00:19:10.132] And I, I remember when I was writing my inventory thinking, "Well, I'm just gonna write about everything else, and I'm gonna leave that out.

18:48

[00 19:10.132 – 00:19:11.752] She won't know that anything's left out.

18:50

[00 19:11.752 – 00:19:12.671] I mean, she doesn't know what ...

18:52

[00 19:12.671 – 00:19:19.352] You know, I c- there's enough bad stuff in there." "She'll assume those are my secrets." And but I couldn't, I couldn't write it.

18:59

[00 19:19.352 – 00:19:22.112] So when I sat down to write, all I could think about was, was that.

19:04

[00 19:22.112 – 00:19:28.892] And so I thought, "Okay, I'm gonna write this down, but I'm not gonna read that part to her." And that was my intention when I went to her house.

19:13

[00 19:28.892 – 00:19:33.852] I sat down, I had a, a little notebook, and I flipped it open to the f- first page.

19:19

[00 19:33.852 – 00:19:38.692] And I, um, that, it was just a paragraph at the beginning, was this, the big secret.

19:24

[00 19:38.692 – 00:19:43.032] And, and I put my finger on the second paragraph where I was gonna start reading.

19:29

[00 19:43.032 – 00:19:52.232] And then she said, um, "Let's get on our knees and say a little prayer here." And she said something like, "God, please help Pat be honest tonight." I couldn't believe she said that.

19:39

[00 19:52.232 – 00:19:52.912] I didn't ...

19:40

[00 19:52.912 – 00:19:53.792] How could she know?

19:41

[00 19:53.792 – 00:19:55.092] And so I read the whole thing.

19:43

[00 19:55.092 – 00:20:01.092] Took me longer to read this little paragraph than it did pages that came after because, you know, I choked and cried and carried on.

19:51

[00 20:01.092 – 00:20:04.452] Turned out she had a very similar experience that she shared with me.

19:55

[00 20:04.452 – 00:20:09.092] It was, by the time I left her house it was a little bit less of a big deal, you know?

20:01

[00 20:09.092 – 00:20:10.192] Yeah.

20:02

[00 20:10.192 – 00:20:12.632] Yeah, my experience also.

20:03

[00 20:13.245 – 00:20:19.584] So, um, what kind of service commitments were you get- were you, um, taking, uh, early in your sobriety?

20:09

[00 20:19.584 – 00:20:24.085] Well, my very first commitment, uh, in a meeting was washing ashtrays.

20:13

[00 20:24.085 – 00:20:25.365] This is a long time ago.

20:15

[00 20:25.365 – 00:20:26.465] You could smoke in meetings.

20:16

[00 20:26.465 – 00:20:28.485] Ashtrays and coffee cups.

20:18

[00 20:28.485 – 00:20:30.245] Um, I didn't...

20:19

[00 20:30.245 – 00:20:32.785] Uh, I couldn't talk to people.

20:21

[00 20:32.785 – 00:20:34.965] You know, I couldn't, uh...

20:23

[00 20:34.965 – 00:20:37.035] Sober, I have no social skills at all.

20:25

[00 20:37.035 – 00:20:39.545] I can't look you in the eye and have a conversation with you.

20:29

[00 20:39.545 – 00:20:41.385] I'm so ill at ease.

20:31

[00 20:41.385 – 00:20:51.435] So, um, now I'm, after the meeting, I'm washing these coffee cups and ashtrays, and there's somebody standing next to me who's rinsing them, and there's somebody standing next to them who's drying them,

20:41

[00 20:51.435 – 00:20:53.625] and we would have these little conversations.

20:44

[00 20:53.625 – 00:20:56.685] And it wasn't awkward because I wasn't looking at them.

20:47

[00 20:56.685 – 00:20:56.715] I see.

20:48

[00 20:56.715 – 00:20:58.865] Our purpose was not to be having a conversation.

20:50

[00 20:58.865 – 00:21:03.285] Our purpose was to do these dishes, and I, I thought that I was just doing the dishes.

20:56

[00 21:03.285 – 00:21:05.365] I didn't know I was learning how to talk to you.

20:59

[00 21:05.365 – 00:21:15.085] You know, I have discovered that pretty much every commitment I've ever had in Alcoholics Anonymous has, has helped me in some way that I didn't even begin to see at the time, and that is certainly true about that.

21:11

[00 21:15.085 – 00:21:16.685] Yeah.

21:12

[00 21:16.685 – 00:21:19.045] And- And then, and then, so that was m- that was my first commitment.

21:16

[00 21:19.045 – 00:21:23.785] Then I had, you know, all the various commitments, chairs and cookies.

21:20

[00 21:23.785 – 00:21:29.025] Oh, that was when I ha- had brought cookies to the meeting, and that, that was in, um, in the crying days still.

21:27

[00 21:29.025 – 00:21:36.944] So, you know, I'd be crying on the way to the meeting, crying when I got to the meeting, slamming the cookies around in the kitchen, sobbing, sobbing to anybody who would listen.

21:36

[00 21:36.944 – 00:21:42.145] You know, I was, uh, people just, I, I think, were probably moving away from me.

21:41

[00 21:42.145 – 00:21:43.675] You know, I was s- so pathetic.

21:44

[00 21:43.675 – 00:21:47.325] But I kept coming back, you know, and people were kind to me.

21:48

[00 21:47.325 – 00:21:51.105] They didn't necessarily stop to chat too long with me, but they were kind.

21:52

[00 21:51.105 – 00:22:00.945] So, uh, my first commitment was also washing coffee cups, and I don't know about you guys, but our conversations were...

21:58

[00 22:00.945 – 00:22:05.165] We were actually taking everybody's inventory in the meetings, so Oh, yes.

22:02

[00 22:05.165 – 00:22:05.845] Of course.

22:03

[00 22:05.845 – 00:22:06.325] Yeah.

22:03

[00 22:06.325 – 00:22:16.465] Um, so one of the things that, I don't know if you still

22:08

[00 22:16.465 – 00:22:26.505] say this when you speak, but one of the things that you used to say when you speak is, um, that suggestions to newcomers to, to, um, get a sobriety

22:16

[00 22:26.505 – 00:22:29.825] date, get a sponsor, get a home group, and get a friend.

22:20

[00 22:29.825 – 00:22:33.545] And I always loved when you would say that from the podium.

22:24

[00 22:33.545 – 00:22:37.275] Um, can you talk about that getting a friend?

22:27

[00 22:37.275 – 00:22:45.125] How did you finally get, get friends in AA, and what did that look like for you, and how did that change?

22:33

[00 22:45.125 – 00:22:45.985] Okay.

22:34

[00 22:45.985 – 00:22:48.125] Um, my first friend's name was Betty.

22:36

[00 22:48.125 – 00:22:52.785] She was sober three days less than me, so we were sort of thrown together.

22:41

[00 22:52.785 – 00:22:57.145] In the Pacific Group, we often would line up according to sobriety for lunch- Mm-hmm ...

22:45

[00 22:57.145 – 00:22:58.405] or whatever things we were doing.

22:48

[00 22:58.405 – 00:23:03.665] And so, you know, we're standing there together often, and, and so we sort of became friends.

22:53

[00 23:03.665 – 00:23:08.105] And, um, I, uh, of course, talked to Betty every day.

22:56

[00 23:08.105 – 00:23:15.325] I talked to my sponsor every day, too, then, but I would often run things by Betty before I would call my sponsor.

23:03

[00 23:15.325 – 00:23:20.265] It's nice when you're new to hear how stuff's gonna sound out loud, you know, before you...

23:08

[00 23:20.265 – 00:23:27.825] Sometimes I'd tweak the wording a little by the time I called my sponsor with it, but s- but she knew, Betty knew everything about me before my sponsor did.

23:17

[00 23:27.825 – 00:23:37.025] Um, when I was, this is a little off topic, but when we were 10 years sober, she went out, and, um, that was, you know, that was very sad for me.

23:26

[00 23:37.025 – 00:23:39.945] I mean, she was, she was my first friend, you know?

23:30

[00 23:39.945 – 00:23:44.125] I didn't, I've never, um, I didn't have a lot of friends.

23:34

[00 23:44.125 – 00:23:52.585] I always had one or two, and then I would look around at other girls in the group who seemed to have this whole gang of girls they hung out with, and I, I felt pretty inferior.

23:44

[00 23:52.585 – 00:24:02.545] But, but I have had, always had, m- my whole sobriety I've always had one or two good close friends, and now I actually have three or four, so there you go.

23:54

[00 24:02.545 – 00:24:04.745] There's improvement.

23:55

[00 24:04.745 – 00:24:09.665] Well, I've, I've always been grateful to count you as one of my friends.

23:59

[00 24:09.665 – 00:24:19.665] Um, uh, so, um, so when, so you've talked about, uh, doing your fourth step and your fifth step.

24:05

[00 24:19.665 – 00:24:23.925] What did, uh, what were your thoughts on steps six and seven?

24:09

[00 24:23.925 – 00:24:26.885] How did your sponsor take you through steps six and seven?

24:12

[00 24:26.885 – 00:24:35.185] Was there any experience for you that you remember early in your sobriety that has maybe changed later in your sobriety?

24:18

[00 24:35.185 – 00:24:36.905] Oh, for sure on six and seven.

24:21

[00 24:36.905 – 00:24:44.185] Um, when I, when I f- the night that I did my fifth step, she told me to do exactly like it says in the Big Book, which is basically two paragraphs.

24:30

[00 24:44.185 – 00:24:49.404] You know, go home, sit down, review, blah, blah, blah, you know, what I've done, and I did that.

24:36

[00 24:49.404 – 00:24:55.145] And, um, I think that I, I didn't s- I didn't really see my character defects then.

24:41

[00 24:55.145 – 00:24:59.665] I don't actually know anybody that saw all their character defects at the time.

24:45

[00 24:59.665 – 00:25:09.505] She said to me, um, a- after I finished my fifth step, "Well, you're a, a, you know, a, a liar, a cheat, and a thief," which was, I thought was harsh, but it was true.

24:56

[00 25:09.505 – 00:25:15.665] Um, but I, that, that's pretty much, you know, that's the, like, the broad strokes of, of who I was and what I saw.

25:03

[00 25:15.665 – 00:25:19.145] And so I, you know, got on my knees and asked God to remove these.

25:08

[00 25:19.145 – 00:25:20.105] And I mean, it, it was...

25:10

[00 25:20.105 – 00:25:25.585] There was no real feeling there because I didn't really understand.

25:13

[00 25:25.585 – 00:25:32.205] I was sober a long time, and I've talked to many of my friends who are sober a long time and, and we all kind of have had the same experience.

25:23

[00 25:32.205 – 00:25:35.805] The longer I'm sober, the more I see what my character defects actually are.

25:27

[00 25:35.805 – 00:25:38.445] I discover new ones all the time, you know?

25:30

[00 25:38.445 – 00:25:45.025] Um, but I, I just think, I th- I like that line that's read, you know, uh, take what you can and file the re- rest for future reference.

25:38

[00 25:45.025 – 00:25:54.285] You know, if I had known then how many character defects I had and how much they shaped my life, uh, I don't know if I could have stood it, you know?

25:48

[00 25:54.285 – 00:26:03.305] Um, just knowing those three basic things, that I'm a liar, a cheat, and a thief, was enough to get me, you know, moving, moving forward.

25:56

[00 26:03.305 – 00:26:13.345] So when you talk with, uh, the women that you sponsor today, um, how do you talk about st- steps six

26:02

[00 26:13.345 – 00:26:18.595] and seven with someone that's, that's looking at those character defects and those shortcomings?

26:06

[00 26:18.595 – 00:26:21.885] Because I've had, my experience was similar.

26:09

[00 26:21.885 – 00:26:31.955] I think that, you know, Bill was only four years sober when he wrote that chapter, so what did he know about how important steps six and seven were going to be, and our character defects

26:19

[00 26:31.955 – 00:26:32.935] and our shortcomings?

26:20

[00 26:32.935 – 00:26:40.145] So how, what h- what is it differ- how is it different for you today with, um, with those two steps, do you think?

26:28

[00 26:40.145 – 00:26:42.145] Well, when I...

26:29

[00 26:42.145 – 00:26:44.685] You mean in terms of sponsoring people or just for me?

26:32

[00 26:44.685 – 00:26:47.415] Well, for you and in terms of sponsoring people.

26:35

[00 26:47.415 – 00:26:56.705] Well, in terms of sponsorship, I have found when I'm listening to somebody's inventory, m- my, um, uh, observation to them is very mu-

26:42

[00 26:56.978 – 00:26:58.918] Very sort of broad the way it was with me.

26:45

[00 26:58.918 – 00:26:59.928] A liar, cheat, and a thief.

26:47

[00 26:59.928 – 00:27:06.998] I mean, it varies girl to girl, but, but basically broad strokes, so to speak, about character defects.

26:53

[00 27:06.998 – 00:27:08.458] Now, for me...

26:54

[00 27:08.458 – 00:27:10.518] I'm so sorry.

26:55

[00 27:10.518 – 00:27:13.078] Got heartburn or something here.

26:57

[00 27:13.078 – 00:27:18.638] Now, for me, um, I, I recognize defects, and I, I don't...

27:01

[00 27:18.638 – 00:27:22.688] Sometimes they pop up and I think, "God, where did that come from?

27:05

[00 27:22.688 – 00:27:26.638] I never knew I had that." I mean, I'm very judgmental.

27:08

[00 27:26.638 – 00:27:36.778] I'm, I have thought for years I'm kind of sarcastic, and I thought that was, um, a charming part of my personality,

27:15

[00 27:36.778 – 00:27:38.438] and it's not so much.

27:16

[00 27:38.438 – 00:27:45.218] Um, it can be, but most of my sarcasm has to do with something about you.

27:21

[00 27:45.218 – 00:27:46.898] You know, it's a dig at you.

27:24

[00 27:46.898 – 00:27:49.938] And, and that's not, um, that's not funny at all.

27:27

[00 27:49.938 – 00:27:50.798] Yeah.

27:27

[00 27:50.798 – 00:27:51.698] And it took me...

27:29

[00 27:51.698 – 00:27:55.058] I'd like to say that, you know, uh, it took me a while to get over that.

27:34

[00 27:55.058 – 00:27:55.978] I'm not over that.

27:35

[00 27:55.978 – 00:28:02.578] Uh, let's see, four years ago maybe, I was just as a, this is an example of this kind of thing.

27:42

[00 28:02.578 – 00:28:03.818] I was hiking.

27:43

[00 28:03.818 – 00:28:14.498] I lived out in the desert and I was hiking, and to get to the hiking trai- You park your car, and to get to the hiking trail had to walk through this, uh, there was a parking lot, and then I had to walk through this open area

27:57

[00 28:14.498 – 00:28:15.818] where a lot of people walk their dog.

28:00

[00 28:15.818 – 00:28:17.858] It was flat and a lot of people walk their dogs there.

28:04

[00 28:17.858 – 00:28:20.858] It wasn't a parking area, just a place where people would walk their dogs.

28:08

[00 28:20.858 – 00:28:25.038] I'd walk through that, and that would get me to the, to the foot of the trail where I was going.

28:14

[00 28:25.038 – 00:28:35.058] And so one day, I'm walking through there, and a man pulls in with his van into that area where people don't generally park, and he opens the back door of the van,

28:24

[00 28:35.058 – 00:28:37.158] and two dogs jump out, and they're running around.

28:27

[00 28:37.158 – 00:28:41.038] And he sees me, and he calls out to me, and he says, uh, "They, they won't bother you.

28:33

[00 28:41.038 – 00:28:42.338] You know, they're, they're harmless.

28:34

[00 28:42.338 – 00:28:52.598] They won't bother you." And I said, "Okay, thank you." And I walked past the van, and then I turned and I said, as I was sort of walking away from him, I turned and I said, "Wow,

28:46

[00 28:52.598 – 00:29:02.598] that's a lazy man's way to walk your dog." And I turned and kept walking, and I heard him say, "I have a bad back." Did I turn and say, "I'm so

28:55

[00 29:02.598 – 00:29:03.348] sorry" ?

28:56

[00 29:03.348 – 00:29:03.698] No, no.

28:57

[00 29:03.698 – 00:29:04.778] I did not do that.

28:58

[00 29:04.778 – 00:29:05.957] I kept walking.

28:59

[00 29:05.957 – 00:29:07.177] I felt bad.

29:01

[00 29:07.177 – 00:29:11.118] I f- I feel bad to this day when I tell that story.

29:05

[00 29:11.118 – 00:29:13.818] I walked by there at least four or five times a week.

29:08

[00 29:13.818 – 00:29:16.658] The whole time I lived out there, I kept looking for that guy.

29:12

[00 29:16.658 – 00:29:19.658] I'm certain he was never gonna come there again because of me.

29:16

[00 29:19.658 – 00:29:22.358] Um, you know, I, I do that.

29:18

[00 29:22.358 – 00:29:26.778] I am sarcastic, and I just think I'm ever so clever, and not so much.

29:23

[00 29:26.778 – 00:29:28.058] Yeah.

29:24

[00 29:28.058 – 00:29:29.158] Yeah.

29:24

[00 29:29.158 – 00:29:36.638] It's always, um, you know, those things pop up, and they, they come back disguised as something else.

29:30

[00 29:36.638 – 00:29:37.038] You know?

29:31

[00 29:37.038 – 00:29:43.907] They just come back and, and all of a sudden they're there, and it's like, "Why do I not feel good?" It's there.

29:37

[00 29:43.907 – 00:29:46.377] "Oh, let's look at your behavior." Yeah.

29:40

[00 29:46.377 – 00:29:51.578] Uh, so eight and nine, what were the eighth and ninth steps like?

29:44

[00 29:51.578 – 00:29:57.678] You talked a little bit about, um, your, uh, your, the husband that you were married to when you got sober.

29:50

[00 29:57.678 – 00:30:03.698] Um, can you, would you be willing to talk a little bit about that and, uh, with regard to your amends?

29:56

[00 30:03.698 – 00:30:04.578] Sure.

29:57

[00 30:04.578 – 00:30:07.678] Um, I had two big amends to make, uh, to him.

30:00

[00 30:07.678 – 00:30:12.098] I mean, I had a lot of amends to make, but the, the two biggest were to him and to my stepfather.

30:07

[00 30:12.098 – 00:30:16.498] My stepfather was, in fact, the big secret, so I'll talk about that if you want.

30:12

[00 30:16.498 – 00:30:21.318] But, uh, talking about my husband, um, I had cheated on him, uh, pretty much the whole...

30:17

[00 30:21.318 – 00:30:25.418] We had been married, I, I think, eight years when I got, uh, sober.

30:21

[00 30:25.418 – 00:30:28.158] I had cheated on him all that time.

30:24

[00 30:28.158 – 00:30:37.438] And so I, uh, you know, talked to my sponsor about, you know, "How do I make this amends?" And she said, "You know, you can't go home and confess infidelities he doesn't know about.

30:34

[00 30:37.438 – 00:30:39.038] That is not, uh, making amends.

30:36

[00 30:39.038 – 00:30:48.458] It's just hurting him more." Um, she said, "I would suggest that you try to just start acting like a kind and loving wife." Um, and I didn't actually know how to do that.

30:47

[00 30:48.458 – 00:30:50.338] Um, she gave me very...

30:48

[00 30:50.338 – 00:30:59.298] I remember her first direction was every day when I went home from work, I was to ask him how his day went, and look at him, and listen while he told me.

30:58

[00 30:59.298 – 00:31:03.478] I was not particularly interested, but I did it.

31:01

[00 31:03.478 – 00:31:05.138] I, I know how to follow directions.

31:03

[00 31:05.138 – 00:31:06.578] I, I remember the first day I did it.

31:06

[00 31:06.578 – 00:31:09.698] He actually looked kind of surprised that I, that I was asking.

31:10

[00 31:09.698 – 00:31:16.898] But he told me something that had happened at work or whatever, and, um, it was ob- Oh, my direction was to listen for a minimum of 10 minutes.

31:18

[00 31:16.898 – 00:31:20.618] So I had checked my watch, and when 10 minutes were up, I s- sort of moved on.

31:23

[00 31:20.618 – 00:31:24.398] But what happened after a while is it became a conversation.

31:27

[00 31:24.398 – 00:31:29.158] You know, after a while, now I'm thinking about the things that he said yesterday or last week.

31:32

[00 31:29.158 – 00:31:34.198] And so I would say, "Hey, how's Fred's little sick baby?" Or whatever it was that he had told me last week.

31:39

[00 31:34.198 – 00:31:40.198] And, and so now it's, now I'm interested in the things that he's doing at work, and the people he's working with, and whatever.

31:46

[00 31:40.198 – 00:31:42.998] Um, it was a gradual thing, you know.

31:49

[00 31:42.998 – 00:31:51.298] And, um, and then, uh, as you know, I cheated on him when I was 10 months sober, and with a guy that was in, a newcomer in AA.

31:57

[00 31:51.298 – 00:31:55.838] And my sponsor s- I told my sp- You know, I knew I was in a lot of trouble.

32:03

[00 31:55.838 – 00:31:59.658] Uh, that's the closest day I've ever been to picking up a drink in 50 years.

32:07

[00 31:59.658 – 00:32:04.718] And my sponsor said to me, "I don't think you're a woman who could cheat on her husband and stay sober.

32:14

[00 32:04.718 – 00:32:08.358] You don't have to live that way anymore if you don't want to." I didn't want to.

32:19

[00 32:08.358 – 00:32:11.118] I've never wanted to live that way, drunk or sober.

32:22

[00 32:11.118 – 00:32:13.298] But I didn't know how to change.

32:24

[00 32:13.298 – 00:32:18.738] And she, and she said, "I want you a day at a time to stay away from that guy." I said, "Okay.

32:31

[00 32:18.738 – 00:32:21.758] I will explain to him tonight what's happening." And she said, "No.

32:35

[00 32:21.758 – 00:32:24.418] Stay away means stay away.

32:36

[00 32:24.418 – 00:32:25.818] No more conversations.

32:38

[00 32:25.818 – 00:32:35.878] Just stay away." I heard that, and I heard at the same time that line that is read in pretty much every meeting I've been to, "Half measures avail us

32:46

[00 32:35.878 – 00:32:45.878] nothing." And I knew for me this was gonna be the cliff that I would live or die on, that I needed to change this behavior, or I

32:55

[00 32:45.878 – 00:32:47.518] was absolutely gonna drink.

32:56

[00 32:47.518 – 00:32:50.198] And so I stayed away from him, you know.

32:59

[00 32:50.198 – 00:32:52.668] Um, I, uh...

33:00

[00 32:52.668 – 00:33:00.178] Uh, uh, the obsession, of course, eventually passed, because obsessions do pass.

33:04

[00 33:00.178 – 00:33:03.458] But the really good news is that I don't live that way anymore.

33:08

[00 33:03.458 – 00:33:08.218] And just to be clear, 'cause I'm old now, and people, I think, look at me and think, "Well, of course you don't live that way anymore.

33:16

[00 33:08.218 – 00:33:14.298] You're an old woman, for God's sake." So just to be clear, I have not lived that way since I was 31 years old, and that's a miracle.

33:24

[00 33:14.298 – 00:33:15.798] That is an absolute miracle.

33:26

[00 33:15.798 – 00:33:17.938] I, you know, I, I can hardly believe it myself.

33:29

[00 33:17.938 – 00:33:28.138] You know, I, I look at some of those lessons that we learned when we were new in the program, and the sponsors that shared those with us, and have no idea,

33:39

[00 33:28.138 – 00:33:38.218] you know, that we, none of us could know that 50 years later we would be sharing about that piece of s- that suggestion that that sponsor made.

33:47

[00 33:38.218 – 00:33:40.718] And, and realize the impact

33:48

[00 33:41.261 – 00:33:48.291] that it has had on our entire life and our entire sobriety and, and that we get to carry forward and share with others.

33:56

[00 33:48.291 – 00:33:58.321] And- Yes, and you know, he, he passed away when I was, um, three years sober, and I 100% knew that I'd made amends to him, you know, before

34:04

[00 33:58.321 – 00:33:58.691] he died.

34:05

[00 33:58.691 – 00:34:01.361] I'd been a kind and loving wife up to the time he died.

34:09

[00 34:01.361 – 00:34:07.471] But the, even the bigger picture, a- as you know, um, I met a man in Alcoholics Anonymous.

34:14

[00 34:07.471 – 00:34:08.751] We fell in love and got married.

34:17

[00 34:08.751 – 00:34:19.031] We were together almost 30 years, and there's no doubt in my mind that I would not have had the kind of relationship Vince and I had if I hadn't learned the tools there with my former husband.

34:27

[00 34:19.031 – 00:34:21.351] You know, I- Yeah ...

34:29

[00 34:21.351 – 00:34:22.571] the, the actions we take have...

34:31

[00 34:22.571 – 00:34:29.371] I think of it as this ripple effect that goes on through our lives, and that is certainly true with, with that particular direction.

34:38

[00 34:29.371 – 00:34:36.111] And I also know I would not have attracted a man of Vince's quality had I not done that, you know, with my former husband.

34:46

[00 34:36.111 – 00:34:38.831] So yeah, it has long-lasting impact, for sure.

34:48

[00 34:38.831 – 00:34:39.951] Yeah.

34:49

[00 34:39.951 – 00:34:47.411] So I am gonna jump ahead since you mentioned Vince and, um, ask you to talk a little bit about how that came about.

34:56

[00 34:47.411 – 00:34:57.251] I know you were friends before, um, before you started dating, and if you'd just touch on how, how that relationship progressed.

35:03

[00 34:57.251 – 00:35:05.271] And I do wanna talk to you also about finance school and financial amends and those kinds of things, so if we can work that in also.

35:11

[00 35:05.271 – 00:35:06.151] Okay.

35:11

[00 35:06.151 – 00:35:08.731] Well, um, I met Vince, of course, when I got sober.

35:15

[00 35:08.731 – 00:35:10.331] He was sober a couple years more than me.

35:18

[00 35:10.331 – 00:35:14.071] He was in my home group, and so I, I knew him, you know, from the meetings.

35:23

[00 35:14.071 – 00:35:21.291] And um, I'll tell you, the first time I really noticed him, I think he was taking a cake or maybe he was just participating.

35:30

[00 35:21.291 – 00:35:30.111] But anyway, he was at the podium, and I remember thinking, "God, he's really cute." Now, that was just a, you know, in, in my mind and out my mind.

35:39

[00 35:30.111 – 00:35:32.451] But that is my first real thought of him.

35:42

[00 35:32.451 – 00:35:40.601] Um, interestingly, when my husband, Willie, the one that w- that I was married to when I got sober, uh, he had died of cancer.

35:49

[00 35:40.601 – 00:35:50.910] So he's in the hospital dying of cancer, and Vince sponsored a guy who was a respiratory therapist at that hospital, and he in fact was the respiratory therapist

35:58

[00 35:50.910 – 00:35:55.111] that often did the treatments on my husband, who had lung cancer.

36:02

[00 35:55.111 – 00:36:04.931] And so I'm sure this is totally against HIPAA, but Bob, his sponsee, would look at Willie's chart, and then he would call Vince and tell him what it said.

36:11

[00 36:04.931 – 00:36:11.851] And then Vince would talk to me at the meeting and explain to me in plain man's language what that all meant.

36:17

[00 36:11.851 – 00:36:21.571] 'Cause you know when you're going some- through something like that, the doctors talk to you, and it's like, "Wah, wah, wah." You don't really hear it all, and Vince was able to, you know, explain it to me where I really understood it.

36:30

[00 36:21.571 – 00:36:23.871] It was strictly as a friend.

36:32

[00 36:23.871 – 00:36:25.011] It was so helpful.

36:34

[00 36:25.011 – 00:36:28.351] And um, so anyway, he...

36:35

[00 36:28.351 – 00:36:29.131] There, there was that.

36:37

[00 36:29.131 – 00:36:34.131] Uh, so Willie passed away, and um, Vince This is kind of funny.

36:41

[00 36:34.131 – 00:36:36.291] Vince actually drove me to the funeral.

36:43

[00 36:36.291 – 00:36:37.751] It sounds like a date.

36:45

[00 36:37.751 – 00:36:38.351] It wasn't.

36:46

[00 36:38.351 – 00:36:43.531] Um, he, he drove my sponsor and a, another woman and myself to the, to the funeral.

36:51

[00 36:43.531 – 00:36:47.671] And um, you know, after that, we, we became friends.

36:54

[00 36:47.671 – 00:36:58.051] He had a, he had a really good friend, a, a woman friend, uh, Mary Lou, who became my friend, and, and so the three of us used to hang out a lot, and then eventually we started, um,

37:06

[00 36:58.051 – 00:37:01.961] you know, dating and, and, uh, s- you know, spending more time just the two of us.

37:11

[00 37:01.961 – 00:37:03.881] But that's kinda how that came about.

37:13

[00 37:03.881 – 00:37:05.931] Yeah.

37:14

[00 37:05.931 – 00:37:09.631] I always, I always loved seeing the two of you together.

37:17

[00 37:09.631 – 00:37:10.611] Um, that was...

37:18

[00 37:10.611 – 00:37:14.951] And I, I met you after you were already with Vince, so.

37:22

[00 37:14.951 – 00:37:16.471] Um, now I know that...

37:24

[00 37:16.471 – 00:37:19.031] How did finance school come about?

37:26

[00 37:19.031 – 00:37:19.161] Oh, okay.

37:27

[00 37:19.161 – 00:37:20.881] So- And let's talk about that a little bit.

37:30

[00 37:20.881 – 00:37:21.131] Sure.

37:30

[00 37:21.131 – 00:37:25.971] Um, so, so Vince and I are married, and, um, we had a lot of financial troubles.

37:35

[00 37:25.971 – 00:37:30.271] We both came to the marriage with some debt and baggage, you know.

37:39

[00 37:30.271 – 00:37:35.211] And so we started paying that off and, um, as best we could.

37:43

[00 37:35.211 – 00:37:44.291] And uh, uh, I was sponsoring this girl who was pretty new, like in her first y- maybe two years sober, and she was, she was married to a guy in the group.

37:53

[00 37:44.291 – 00:37:47.911] They met in AA, and they're married, and, and they had a little baby.

37:57

[00 37:47.911 – 00:37:51.351] And she called me one day, and she said, "Can we come and talk to you and Vince about...

38:03

[00 37:51.351 – 00:37:56.291] We think we're, we think we might be having some financial problems, and can we..." So we said, "Sure.

38:09

[00 37:56.291 – 00:37:57.920] Come over and talk to us." So they came over.

38:12

[00 37:57.920 – 00:38:00.831] Well, they indeed had financial problems.

38:14

[00 38:00.831 – 00:38:04.391] They were living pretty much on credit cards, literally.

38:17

[00 38:04.391 – 00:38:06.851] I mean, they were paying their rent on credit cards.

38:20

[00 38:06.851 – 00:38:07.991] Every, they were...

38:21

[00 38:07.991 – 00:38:17.831] And n- and which they had all these credit cards because, you know, they were young and had the good jobs, but now they don't have such good jobs, and, and it's all coming home to roost now.

38:33

[00 38:17.831 – 00:38:27.951] And you know, so we, um, you know, uh, worked with them and explained to them that they needed to first of all move to a place that they could afford to live in instead

38:43

[00 38:27.951 – 00:38:31.711] of this lavish place that they were, they couldn't afford.

38:46

[00 38:31.711 – 00:38:36.911] And so anyway, so we helped them get their, their financial affairs in order, so to speak.

38:51

[00 38:36.911 – 00:38:46.971] And so maybe a year later, um, one of their friends or some other person in AA, you know, was talking about their financial troubles and, and this girl said, "Oh, you should go

39:01

[00 38:46.971 – 00:38:48.391] talk to Vince and Pat.

39:03

[00 38:48.391 – 00:38:50.951] They really helped us." And so they came and talked to us.

39:07

[00 38:50.951 – 00:38:57.971] And the next thing you know, we've got, you know, 10, 12 couples in our living room on Sunday mornings talking about their finances.

39:13

[00 38:57.971 – 00:39:05.451] And, and s- you know, we called it, we referred to it as finance class, but what it actually was was a financial amends class.

39:21

[00 39:05.451 – 00:39:07.651] It was about paying off the...

39:23

[00 39:07.651 – 00:39:13.371] And people would come and say, "Well, I can't afford, you know, I, I can't afford to make payments on this stuff.

39:30

[00 39:13.371 – 00:39:18.211] You know, I don't make enough money." And um, generally, th- they did make enough money.

39:34

[00 39:18.211 – 00:39:23.291] It was mostly that they were spending it indiscriminately and foolishly.

39:38

[00 39:23.291 – 00:39:26.851] You know, and so it was, so we, you know, tried to help them with that.

39:43

[00 39:26.851 – 00:39:34.791] And it, it was a thing that grew amazingly because so many alcoholics are so irresponsible about their money.

39:49

[00 39:34.791 – 00:39:36.991] I mean, we're immature people, let's face it.

39:51

[00 39:36.991 – 00:39:41.691] And, and financial, uh, immaturity is not uncommon with alcoholics.

39:54

[00 39:41.691 – 00:39:47.451] So the next thing you know, we've got like 30 or 40 people in our living room, and you know, it's a little much for us to handle.

40:02

[00 39:47.451 – 00:39:57.671] So now we would have, like if you were in the class, um, and you're doing good, you've been there a while, and you're making your payments the way you should and doing, you know, making some progress,

40:13

[00 39:57.671 – 00:40:02.791] we would, we would give you a couple of people to work with and, and, and spread it out.

40:19

[00 40:02.791 – 00:40:12.611] And then we would have a m- so everybody would come on Sunday morning, and each teacher, for lack of a better word, would meet with their two or three people, you know, in different parts of the house.

40:31

[00 40:12.611 – 00:40:14.871] And then we'd all come together, and we'd have a meeting.

40:34

[00 40:14.871 – 00:40:17.141] Not an AA meeting, but like a finance meeting.

40:37

[00 40:17.141 – 00:40:25.341] And Vince would say to various teachers, "So who should participate today?" And, and you might say, "Oh, um, Susie and her husband should p-

40:44

[00 40:25.453 – 00:40:26.004] participate.

40:45

[00 40:26.004 – 00:40:28.044] They just paid off a dead horse, you know?

40:48

[00 40:28.044 – 00:40:32.944] And so you, they would talk about that and we'd all clap and cheer that they paid, paid that off.

40:54

[00 40:32.944 – 00:40:38.084] And, or somebody might say, "Oh, uh, uh, Rita should participate.

40:57

[00 40:38.084 – 00:40:48.084] She just..." Um, I shouldn't have said her name, but she just, uh, her, her father had died and she hired, hired a mariachi band that she paid for, that she didn't have the money for, for

41:08

[00 40:48.084 – 00:40:49.144] the funeral, you know?

41:10

[00 40:49.144 – 00:40:52.034] That, so it was good and bad, you know, got talked about.

41:13

[00 40:52.034 – 00:40:56.764] And the, the wonderful thing about it is it's like AA, it was the common...

41:18

[00 40:56.764 – 00:41:01.184] Everybody who came into that class thought that they were the only ones, you know?

41:23

[00 41:01.184 – 00:41:01.744] Yeah.

41:23

[00 41:01.744 – 00:41:07.314] Uh, and, and everybody thought, "If I just made a little more money, I'd be okay." Yeah.

41:28

[00 41:07.314 – 00:41:17.344] But we had people in that cla- at one time we had somebody who made, I don't know, $20,000 a year, which remember, folks, this was a lot of years ago, but we also had somebody who made over $2 million a

41:40

[00 41:17.344 – 00:41:20.644] year, and their problem was exactly the same.

41:43

[00 41:20.644 – 00:41:23.144] They were living beyond their means, you know?

41:45

[00 41:23.144 – 00:41:32.584] So it, it's about, um, maturity, you know, growing up and figuring out what you really can afford to, to do, and, and cutting back on stuff.

41:53

[00 41:32.584 – 00:41:34.524] And, and Vince and I had to do that.

41:56

[00 41:34.524 – 00:41:44.744] You know, we, um, when we had opened our business, we kind of, that first year we got a little confused about taxes, and we wound up owing

42:05

[00 41:44.744 – 00:41:49.744] the IRS, I don't know, $60,000 or something, and, and we didn't have it.

42:09

[00 41:49.744 – 00:41:56.984] And, uh, so we, we weren't sure what to do, so we didn't do anything, which is a typical alcoholic thing to do.

42:16

[00 41:56.984 – 00:42:04.424] And, um, one day we came home from work and there was a card stuck in our door, a business card stuck in the door from an IRS agent.

42:24

[00 42:04.424 – 00:42:09.404] I don't know if they do this anymore, but especially for somebody as small as we were, but anyway.

42:30

[00 42:09.404 – 00:42:19.404] And it said, "Please call or come to our office to discuss the money you owe." And so we took the next day off from work, and we went down to the IRS office in downtown LA, and we said, "We're here

42:42

[00 42:19.404 – 00:42:24.574] to see Miss whatever," and they said, "Do you have an appointment?" We said, "No, but she left this card in our door." And so, "Okay.

42:50

[00 42:24.574 – 00:42:30.884] Well, have a seat." So she comes out and brings us into a conference room, and, "Why are you here?" And we told her we got this card.

42:58

[00 42:30.884 – 00:42:41.004] And she said, "I've been doing this 30 years, and I've never once had anybody show up in the office after getting that card in the door." And what was good about that in retrospect is that she

43:09

[00 42:41.004 – 00:42:44.904] saw us as people who really wanted to make this right.

43:13

[00 42:44.904 – 00:42:55.044] And, you know, you hear horror stories about the IR- IRS making such ridiculous, uh, payment plans that, you know, you don't have enough to buy a stick of gum after you make the payment

43:23

[00 42:55.044 – 00:42:55.364] to them.

43:24

[00 42:55.364 – 00:42:56.804] And, and that was not the case.

43:26

[00 42:56.804 – 00:43:00.424] The, the payment plan she worked out for us was very doable.

43:30

[00 43:00.424 – 00:43:04.624] It took years to pay it out, years, but it was doable.

43:34

[00 43:04.624 – 00:43:09.824] And, um, it was a, it was a good lesson for us that, you know, if you, if you show intent...

43:40

[00 43:09.824 – 00:43:14.204] So we would tell people, you know, "You call these people that you owe money to and you start making payments.

43:46

[00 43:14.204 – 00:43:24.444] If it's $20 a month, if that's..." And, and p- people would say, "Yeah, but I owe them $10,000." I goes, "Yeah, but start making payments." And they'd say, "Well, they'll never accept it."

43:56

[00 43:24.444 – 00:43:26.584] They always cash the checks, you know?

43:58

[00 43:26.584 – 00:43:28.124] They always cash the checks.

44:00

[00 43:28.124 – 00:43:29.244] Yeah.

44:01

[00 43:29.244 – 00:43:31.344] Thank you for sharing about that.

44:03

[00 43:31.344 – 00:43:33.904] So you've, you've stayed sober.

44:04

[00 43:33.904 – 00:43:35.224] Life happens.

44:05

[00 43:35.224 – 00:43:41.104] Um, and, and here you are today, 50 years sober.

44:08

[00 43:41.104 – 00:43:51.464] And, um, looking back on your sobriety, um, and the amazing life that you've had, what, um,

44:13

[00 43:51.464 – 00:44:01.544] what's a, a, it, it, what's a special story, a special experience that you've gone through other than what we've already talked

44:20

[00 44:01.544 – 00:44:11.544] about that, um, that, you know, just is h- how did, how did I get to have this life kind

44:26

[00 44:11.544 – 00:44:12.164] of story?

44:27

[00 44:12.164 – 00:44:14.264] Do you have any of those?

44:29

[00 44:14.264 – 00:44:16.294] Or many of those- Yeah ...

44:30

[00 44:16.294 – 00:44:17.064] one you can pick?

44:32

[00 44:17.064 – 00:44:19.204] Um, yeah, one I can pick.

44:34

[00 44:19.204 – 00:44:21.124] Uh, I think a...

44:35

[00 44:21.124 – 00:44:22.564] Oh, God.

44:36

[00 44:22.564 – 00:44:23.944] One I can pick, yeah.

44:38

[00 44:23.944 – 00:44:26.704] I'll ta- I wanna talk about meditation.

44:40

[00 44:26.704 – 00:44:30.144] I did not meditate for years.

44:42

[00 44:30.144 – 00:44:34.184] I, I mean, I had this idea meditation is sitting cross-legged and saying om or something.

44:47

[00 44:34.184 – 00:44:38.104] I, I mean, you know, talk about contempt prior to investigation.

44:51

[00 44:38.104 – 00:44:48.104] I, um, so I just didn't do it, and, uh, my sponsor heard me say that one time and she said, "Oh, so you don't do the 11th step?" I was sober a long time,

45:01

[00 44:48.104 – 00:44:48.924] long time.

45:02

[00 44:48.924 – 00:45:00.094] And I said, "Well, yeah, I, I do the, I pray." And she said, "Well, it says prayer and meditation." And I thought, "Oh, God, I, I need to do this." So I, um, at

45:12

[00 45:00.094 – 00:45:01.424] the time I was living in the desert.

45:15

[00 45:01.424 – 00:45:03.944] I mean, I was sober a long time.

45:17

[00 45:03.944 – 00:45:12.064] And, uh, there was an AA meditation meeting there on Friday nights, and I thought, "Well, that looks like a good place to start to learn to meditate," so I went to that meeting.

45:27

[00 45:12.064 – 00:45:20.004] And they, everybody's sitting in a circle in, you know, in chairs, and they dim the lights, and they, they had, you know, the bowl and the...

45:36

[00 45:20.004 – 00:45:24.324] I don't know the terminology for all of this, and somebody i- doing the sound thing.

45:40

[00 45:24.324 – 00:45:27.924] And they dim the lights, and we, I don't know, we're meditating for 10 or 15 minutes.

45:45

[00 45:27.924 – 00:45:30.084] So they dim the lights.

45:47

[00 45:30.084 – 00:45:33.724] Everybody is sitting perfectly still except me.

45:49

[00 45:33.724 – 00:45:34.724] I can't.

45:50

[00 45:34.724 – 00:45:35.844] I am twitching.

45:51

[00 45:35.844 – 00:45:38.024] I am itching.

45:52

[00 45:38.024 – 00:45:39.954] I'm, I can't sit still.

45:54

[00 45:39.954 – 00:45:41.344] I was like a crazy person.

45:56

[00 45:41.344 – 00:45:44.924] I was so embarrassed, I never went back to the meeting.

45:59

[00 45:44.924 – 00:45:53.984] Now, I have said to everybody I know, everybody I've ever sponsored, "If you're start, if you're trying a new meeting, do not dismiss it after one time.

46:08

[00 45:53.984 – 00:45:59.734] Go at least three times before you decide that's not for me." But to this day, I have never been back to that meeting.

46:15

[00 45:59.734 – 00:46:08.384] So I thought, "Okay, that didn't work." So then somebody said, "Well, YouTube has a lot of guided meditation things." Said, "Okay, I'll try that." So I tried that.

46:24

[00 46:08.384 – 00:46:10.024] It just did not speak to me at all.

46:26

[00 46:10.024 – 00:46:12.744] I just could not, uh, get into it.

46:29

[00 46:12.744 – 00:46:23.284] And then my friend Luther, who is my sponsor's husband, they lived next door to me at the time, um, he had a friend in AA who was an assistant

46:38

[00 46:23.284 – 00:46:24.324] to the Dalai Lama.

46:39

[00 46:24.324 – 00:46:28.603] And Todd, the guy, happened to be in the desert.

46:43

[00 46:28.603 – 00:46:31.144] His mother lived there, and I think he'd come to visit his mother.

46:47

[00 46:31.144 – 00:46:35.344] And, uh, so Luther had him over to, for dinner, and had me and another woman.

46:51

[00 46:35.344 – 00:46:40.444] Uh, so we're there for dinner, and during dinner Luther said to him, "You know, some of us struggle with meditation.

46:58

[00 46:40.444 – 00:46:50.444] Would you mind talking to us about it?" And he said, "Well, sure." And so he talked about meditation, and he, um, recommended a book to read and, and, uh, he led us that night through a

47:09

[00 46:50.444 – 00:46:57.684] couple of short meditations and suggested how the next day what I could do, you know, to start meditating.

47:14

[00 46:57.684 – 00:47:00.144] So, um, so then now I'm all fired up.

47:17

[00 47:00.144 – 00:47:02.124] I mean, this is the assistant to the Dalai Lama.

47:21

[00 47:02.124 – 00:47:05.334] You're not gonna get much closer to, you know, the answer than this.

47:25

[00 47:05.334 – 00:47:09.494] So I go home the next day, and I, um, set my timer for two minutes-

47:29

[00 47:10.397 – 00:47:14.777] And I, you know, I try to clear my mind, and I do, do what he suggests.

47:35

[00 47:14.777 – 00:47:17.117] And, and it seemed like a long time, long two minutes.

47:38

[00 47:17.117 – 00:47:22.257] But after a week or so, it didn't seem so long, and so then I upped it to five minutes.

47:44

[00 47:22.257 – 00:47:28.037] And again, the f- those first couple days was kind of long, but, um, but then it's not so long.

47:50

[00 47:28.037 – 00:47:30.797] And then I upped it to 30 minutes, and then I never did it again.

47:54

[00 47:30.797 – 00:47:32.757] Because that's who I am.

47:56

[00 47:32.757 – 00:47:35.217] I want the results completely now.

47:58

[00 47:35.217 – 00:47:37.397] I don't wanna gradually get there.

48:00

[00 47:37.397 – 00:47:38.597] I want it all today.

48:02

[00 47:38.597 – 00:47:41.607] And so I really, really, really struggled with this.

48:05

[00 47:41.607 – 00:47:45.587] Um, as you know, I'm a hiker, and I generally hike alone.

48:09

[00 47:45.587 – 00:47:50.997] And I realized one day that I meditate all the time when I'm out there hiking.

48:13

[00 47:50.997 – 00:47:52.177] I'm s- I am...

48:15

[00 47:52.177 – 00:48:02.386] I can leave for a hike and have some problem going on in my head, and it's not that I'm thinking about it when I'm out there, but somehow when I'm home, the answers come,

48:25

[00 48:02.386 – 00:48:03.557] you know.

48:26

[00 48:03.557 – 00:48:10.886] Uh, also, my cardiologist had, cardiologist had given me some breathing exercises to do while I'm walking, you know, to, so I can live.

48:33

[00 48:10.886 – 00:48:15.207] And, um, and I, so I'm counting breaths, you know.

48:36

[00 48:15.207 – 00:48:21.797] Um, I'm not thinking of this as meditation, but it is, because, uh, my mind is clear of everything else except my breathing.

48:43

[00 48:21.797 – 00:48:28.337] It really, um, kind of calmed me down about the whole thing, and now I actually can meditate at home.

48:49

[00 48:28.337 – 00:48:35.037] I, uh, s- a story I like to tell about that is a couple years ago I had gone down to the, I live at the beach, near the beach, and I had gone to the beach.

49:00

[00 48:35.037 – 00:48:41.457] It was wintertime, it was cold, and I'd taken my beach chair, and I had a jacket on, and I w- sat down by the water.

49:08

[00 48:41.457 – 00:48:48.977] And, um, I, there was only one other person on the beach, a guy, and he was, I don't know, not very far away from me, and he was doing tai chi.

49:18

[00 48:48.977 – 00:48:51.397] I'm sitting there meditating, and I'm watching him.

49:20

[00 48:51.397 – 00:48:55.877] That's kind of a cool thing to watch, you know, and it's all, everything's wonderful.

49:25

[00 48:55.877 – 00:49:03.557] And when he finished his, uh, tai chi, he raised his hands to the sky, and he sang the Lord's Prayer.

49:31

[00 49:03.557 – 00:49:11.837] I, I had my phone in my hand, and I started to record it, and I thought, "Yeah, no, this isn't, this isn't a record moment.

49:39

[00 49:11.837 – 00:49:14.157] This is a spiritual thing happening here," you know?

49:42

[00 49:14.157 – 00:49:17.837] I know if I had recorded that, I would've watched it once or twice.

49:46

[00 49:17.837 – 00:49:20.397] I wouldn't have felt it at all at, you know, after that.

49:50

[00 49:20.397 – 00:49:24.817] To this day, every time I tell this story, I feel it, you know.

49:54

[00 49:24.817 – 00:49:29.357] Um, I think those are the gifts that I get from trying to...

49:58

[00 49:29.357 – 00:49:30.677] You know, it says we seek.

50:00

[00 49:30.677 – 00:49:31.817] You know, we're constantly seeking.

50:02

[00 49:31.817 – 00:49:36.817] It never says we achieve anything, you know, but I think by seeking, I get those moments, you know.

50:08

[00 49:36.817 – 00:49:41.077] I've said this many times before, I believe God is everywhere.

50:11

[00 49:41.077 – 00:49:43.857] Uh, you know, He's here when I'm doing dishes or whatever.

50:15

[00 49:43.857 – 00:49:52.997] But, but those moments where I absolutely feel Him, you know, I think that's the, the result of being willing to continue to try.

50:22

[00 49:52.997 – 00:49:57.337] Oh, thank you so much for sharing that.

50:24

[00 49:57.337 – 00:49:58.197] That's beautiful.

50:25

[00 49:58.197 – 00:49:59.477] And I understand.

50:26

[00 49:59.477 – 00:50:08.657] I, I have had a similar experience that, that I draw on, and it ha- also has to do with, with meditation, interestingly enough.

50:34

[00 50:08.657 – 00:50:11.637] So Pat, thank you so much for doing this.

50:36

[00 50:11.637 – 00:50:17.717] I'm going to take us out of spotlight mode and take us back to the group.

50:41

[00 50:17.717 – 00:50:23.997] And, um, and I'm going to ask if anybody has any questions for Pat.

50:46

[00 50:23.997 – 00:50:26.837] I am going to ask you to raise your digital hand.

50:49

[00 50:26.837 – 00:50:30.737] I will ask you to turn on your video before you ask a question.

50:53

[00 50:30.737 – 00:50:40.477] And I'm also going to ask, please, this is, you can stay after and thank Pat for her share, but this is a time to ask questions.

51:01

[00 50:40.477 – 00:50:46.537] If you have any questions for Pat, um, this is the time to raise your hand and ask them.

51:07

[00 50:46.537 – 00:50:53.187] I know that there are some sponsees in the room and some friends in the room that know special stories.

51:13

[00 50:53.187 – 00:51:01.197] If she didn't share it this evening and you want to hear her share it, feel free to raise your hand and, um, and I'll get you called on.

51:22

[00 51:01.197 – 00:51:06.197] Uh, Jack in Seattle, would you like to unmute and come in and ask Pat a question?

51:27

[00 51:06.197 – 00:51:07.297] Yes.

51:28

[00 51:07.297 – 00:51:07.757] Thank you.

51:29

[00 51:07.757 – 00:51:09.057] Uh, hi, Pat.

51:30

[00 51:09.057 – 00:51:10.777] My name's Jack, and I'm an alcoholic.

51:32

[00 51:10.777 – 00:51:12.177] Um, I have a question.

51:34

[00 51:12.177 – 00:51:22.197] When, when did you look back at some point, kind of like when you climb up a mountain, and all of a sudden you look back and you can see all this vista for miles and miles and miles to the end

51:46

[00 51:22.197 – 00:51:22.557] of the earth.

51:47

[00 51:22.557 – 00:51:30.867] When did that happen for you, and what did it feel like when you looked and you said, "God, I've been here for," whatever, "40 years or a half a century"?

51:56

[00 51:30.867 – 00:51:31.877] Did that happen?

51:57

[00 51:31.877 – 00:51:36.397] Did you have that moment of you didn't really think about it until all of a sudden one day it hit you?

52:04

[00 51:36.397 – 00:51:37.547] Um- Thanks ...

52:05

[00 51:37.547 – 00:51:38.517] yes, yes.

52:06

[00 51:38.517 – 00:51:39.657] I, the moment I...

52:07

[00 51:39.657 – 00:51:46.057] Like, my friend Roseanne is here, and I know she's very happy I'm telling this story, because she always wants me to tell it.

52:14

[00 51:46.057 – 00:51:56.227] Um, when I was about, I don't know, 10 or 15 years sober, Vince and I lived, um, in Pasadena, and to get to work,

52:21

[00 51:56.227 – 00:52:02.137] I had to go down the Pasadena Freeway, past Dodger Stadium, through downtown LA to my office.

52:26

[00 52:02.137 – 00:52:03.467] And it's Los Angeles traffic.

52:28

[00 52:03.467 – 00:52:04.257] It's terrible.

52:29

[00 52:04.257 – 00:52:07.557] And of course, it never occurred to me to leave earlier in the morning.

52:33

[00 52:07.557 – 00:52:17.687] So every morning I'm driving to work, and I get to that spot a little bit before Dodger Stadium, and the traffic would slow to, like, two miles an hour, and then it would just creep through

52:44

[00 52:17.687 – 00:52:18.497] downtown LA.

52:45

[00 52:18.497 – 00:52:20.977] And so every day I'm in the car, clutching the steering wheel.

52:49

[00 52:20.977 – 00:52:22.477] I am so pissed off.

52:51

[00 52:22.477 – 00:52:23.157] I hate God.

52:52

[00 52:23.157 – 00:52:24.637] I hate every other car on the freeway.

52:54

[00 52:24.637 – 00:52:25.797] I hate you.

52:55

[00 52:25.797 – 00:52:29.477] I'm the one in this lane, and then I look over, oh, that lane looks better.

53:00

[00 52:29.477 – 00:52:32.177] And then, oops, no, it was the oth- I'm a crazy person.

53:04

[00 52:32.177 – 00:52:38.557] I did that every day for probably a year, maybe longer, until one day I was in the car.

53:10

[00 52:38.557 – 00:52:39.617] I got to that spot.

53:12

[00 52:39.617 – 00:52:41.817] I'm all tensed up.

53:13

[00 52:41.817 – 00:52:42.837] You know, the traffic's stopped.

53:15

[00 52:42.837 – 00:52:52.937] I'm all tensed up, and I happen to glance over to the right, and down the embankment of the freeway is Figueroa, and across Figueroa is a bar that I worked in as a dancer.

53:25

[00 52:52.937 – 00:52:59.737] I just came from a really nice house in Pasadena, where there's a husband there who loves and respects me.

53:31

[00 52:59.737 – 00:53:02.757] I'm going to a, a respectable secretarial job.

53:34

[00 53:02.757 – 00:53:10.427] When I get off work today, I'm gonna go to an AA meeting and see my sponsor and see some women I sponsor, and enjoy a good AA meeting.

53:42

[00 53:10.427 – 00:53:13.597] At the end of that meeting, I'm gonna go home with my own husband.

53:47

[00 53:13.597 – 00:53:20.937] I am not the same woman that did the things that I did in that bar and in the parking lot behind that bar.

53:54

[00 53:20.937 – 00:53:25.997] You cannot get from down there to up here in this car, and yet here I am.

53:59

[00 53:25.997 – 00:53:27.757] I started to cry in the car that day.

54:02

[00 53:27.757 – 00:53:31.457] I was so overwhelmingly grateful for my life.

54:04

[00 53:31.457 – 00:53:33.397] It is the last day I cursed the traffic.

54:07

[00 53:33.397 – 00:53:35.437] I used to kind of look forward to getting to that spot.

54:11

[00 53:35.437 – 00:53:37.317] I'd look over and have my little moment, you know.

54:14

[00 53:37.317 – 00:53:44.177] Um, I've had many moments like that, but that's, that's, that was, I think, the first really big one.

54:20

[00 53:44.177 – 00:53:47.437] Thanks, Pat.

54:21

[00 53:47.437 – 00:53:52.497] Uh, Chilly Charlie, would you like to come in and unmute and, uh, ask Pat a question?

54:26

[00 53:52.497 – 00:53:52.757] Yes.

54:27

[00 53:52.757 – 00:53:53.807] Thanks, P- uh, Pat

54:28

[00 53:54.610 – 00:53:56.450] Uh, thank you for sharing that story, Pat.

54:31

[00 53:56.450 – 00:54:02.230] I, I've always remembered it since the first time I heard you, uh, share that many years ago.

54:36

[00 54:02.230 – 00:54:06.250] And, um, I wanted to ask you about the Pacific Group.

54:40

[00 54:06.250 – 00:54:10.990] I've always been intrigued, um, by that and have never had the opportunity to attend.

54:44

[00 54:10.990 – 00:54:17.490] And, uh, has it changed at all over the years or is it pretty much the same?

54:49

[00 54:17.490 – 00:54:19.760] Can you, uh, share some insight?

54:51

[00 54:19.760 – 00:54:20.690] Well, of course.

54:52

[00 54:20.690 – 00:54:22.900] It, I mean, everything changes, you know.

54:55

[00 54:22.900 – 00:54:28.270] Um, there was a concern when Clancy died, you know, is, is this gonna fall apart?

55:00

[00 54:28.270 – 00:54:29.410] You know, it did not.

55:01

[00 54:29.410 – 00:54:34.460] Um, the, the, uh, pandemic, uh, the...

55:04

[00 54:34.460 – 00:54:35.430] Several things happened.

55:05

[00 54:35.430 – 00:54:38.370] Uh, well, let me just say this first.

55:07

[00 54:38.370 – 00:54:42.450] When I got sober, the Pacific Group was way smaller, so that's one thing.

55:12

[00 54:42.450 – 00:54:47.730] And everybody pretty much was either sponsored by Clancy or somebody he sponsored or somebody...

55:16

[00 54:47.730 – 00:54:50.090] You know, so we all kind of were doing the same thing.

55:20

[00 54:50.090 – 00:54:56.380] I never thought once about changing sponsors, even though I didn't like a lot of the direction I was getting.

55:26

[00 54:56.380 – 00:55:02.610] I never thought about changing sponsors because I knew that anybody else would tell me to do exactly the same thing.

55:32

[00 55:02.610 – 00:55:06.390] So that is not so true today because we are so much bigger.

55:37

[00 55:06.390 – 00:55:09.930] So that is, in my mind's eye, not such a great thing.

55:40

[00 55:09.930 – 00:55:14.130] But anyway, during the pandemic, uh, of course we weren't meeting live.

55:44

[00 55:14.130 – 00:55:16.130] We went on Zoom right away, which was great.

55:47

[00 55:16.130 – 00:55:26.130] Um, and during that time the synagogue where we had met for most of my sobriety, um, underwent, well, started undergoing a major renovation and we were no longer able to, when the

55:57

[00 55:26.130 – 00:55:28.890] pandemic ended, we were no longer able to meet there.

56:00

[00 55:28.890 – 00:55:31.330] And also during the pandemic, Clancy died.

56:02

[00 55:31.330 – 00:55:35.750] And so, you know, a lot of us were thinking, "God, what's gonna happen here?

56:07

[00 55:35.750 – 00:55:39.350] Are we gonna, you know, are we gonna fall apart?" No, we haven't.

56:11

[00 55:39.350 – 00:55:41.690] I mean, we get 600 people every week.

56:13

[00 55:41.690 – 00:55:43.870] We've got 3 or 400 on Zoom, you know.

56:15

[00 55:43.870 – 00:55:45.270] We're, we're going strong.

56:17

[00 55:45.270 – 00:55:46.450] Is it different?

56:18

[00 55:46.450 – 00:55:47.790] Yes, it is different.

56:19

[00 55:47.790 – 00:55:50.190] Um, but it's, but it's good.

56:21

[00 55:50.190 – 00:55:55.310] It's, you know, I mean, I'm, I try not to be a, what is it, a bleeding deacon, you know.

56:27

[00 55:55.310 – 00:56:03.790] Um, things, some of the things have changed, but the basic spirit of the Pacific Group is there.

56:33

[00 56:03.790 – 00:56:13.490] The basic concepts of, you know, strong sponsorship and, um, commitments are, are, are absolutely 100% there.

56:38

[00 56:13.490 – 00:56:15.210] Thanks, Pat.

56:39

[00 56:15.210 – 00:56:17.270] And, uh, Charlie, thank you for your question.

56:41

[00 56:17.270 – 00:56:18.850] No other questions?

56:42

[00 56:18.850 – 00:56:20.369] No one else has a question?

56:44

[00 56:20.369 – 00:56:23.690] I mean, this woman has 50 years of sobriety.

56:47

[00 56:23.690 – 00:56:26.290] There's nothing you want to know about from her?

56:50

[00 56:26.290 – 00:56:30.850] Okay.

56:50

[00 56:30.850 – 00:56:35.490] Well, Pat, I am just, I'm so grateful for our friendship.

56:54

[00 56:35.490 – 00:56:35.580] Me, too.

56:55

[00 56:35.580 – 00:56:42.050] And so grateful you were willing to do this, and that we have had the privilege of staying in touch.

57:01

[00 56:42.050 – 00:56:42.810] Oh, see.

57:02

[00 56:42.810 – 00:56:45.000] That's all it took was to- ...

57:04

[00 56:45.000 – 00:56:47.870] start winding it up and someone's gonna raise a question.

57:07

[00 56:47.870 – 00:56:51.610] Okay, Dave, would you like to unmute and come in and ask a question?

57:11

[00 56:51.610 – 00:56:53.910] Yeah.

57:12

[00 56:53.910 – 00:56:56.650] My, my name's Dave, alcoholic.

57:13

[00 56:56.650 – 00:56:59.550] Uh, it was a great share.

57:15

[00 56:59.550 – 00:57:05.850] Uh, but I was, uh, wondering about the financial, you know, because I was thinking about that.

57:21

[00 57:05.850 – 00:57:16.450] I've got a lot of years sobriety, but I messed up in s- financial, and I realize that, you know, I, I, I put...

57:28

[00 57:16.450 – 00:57:21.010] Like I got fear on one side and reckless on the other side.

57:32

[00 57:21.010 – 00:57:24.010] And I'm, and I want prudence in the middle.

57:35

[00 57:24.010 – 00:57:32.370] But, uh, the reckless, I realize that, you know, there's two kinds of reckless.

57:39

[00 57:32.370 – 00:57:38.750] There's, uh, with a W, like I, I wreck a car and get damage.

57:43

[00 57:38.750 – 00:57:49.130] And then the, the other is reckless with an R, and what I don't realize is the, I'm not looking at the consequences

57:50

[00 57:49.130 – 00:57:52.230] of what I'm, uh, how I'm spending the money.

57:53

[00 57:52.230 – 00:57:59.570] And I, and probably I'm being, you know, dishonest and cheating lime, you know.

57:57

[00 57:59.570 – 00:58:03.209] And, uh, but, but did you...

57:59

[00 58:03.209 – 00:58:09.310] So when you had your class, did a lot of them ha- have that kind of...

58:04

[00 58:09.310 – 00:58:11.910] Everybody.

58:05

[00 58:11.910 – 00:58:12.740] Okay.

58:06

[00 58:12.740 – 00:58:13.290] Everybody.

58:06

[00 58:13.290 – 00:58:14.110] I mean, that's what...

58:08

[00 58:14.110 – 00:58:22.970] People came to finance class primarily because their sponsors told them to, um, because they were, you know, deeply in debt and owed everybody and their brother.

58:16

[00 58:22.970 – 00:58:28.790] And, um, and like I think I mentioned earlier, everybody thought, "Gee, if I just made more money, I'd be able to get out of this mess." Well, no.

58:24

[00 58:28.790 – 00:58:32.090] It's basically, it boils down to immaturity.

58:27

[00 58:32.090 – 00:58:33.910] I want what I want when I want it.

58:29

[00 58:33.910 – 00:58:35.070] I want this new dress.

58:31

[00 58:35.070 – 00:58:36.770] I want this car.

58:33

[00 58:36.770 – 00:58:38.330] Whatever it is, you know.

58:34

[00 58:38.330 – 00:58:42.150] And it, it's a matter, uh, of learning to live within your means.

58:38

[00 58:42.150 – 00:58:48.829] I'll tell you what, like I mentioned, you know, that Vince and I were in terrible debt, which is how all this got started.

58:46

[00 58:48.829 – 00:58:51.270] We got out of debt completely, 100%.

58:48

[00 58:51.270 – 00:58:55.230] To this day, I mean, I haven't been in debt for 40 years.

58:51

[00 58:55.230 – 00:59:03.180] To this day, when I get a bill in the mail, I open the, you know, I open it up, I see that, oh, I owe this.

58:59

[00 59:03.180 – 00:59:05.530] I sit down and pay the bill right that minute.

59:02

[00 59:05.530 – 00:59:08.390] Nothing feels as good as that to this very day.

59:06

[00 59:08.390 – 00:59:10.140] I owe nobody.

59:07

[00 59:10.140 – 00:59:14.370] I don't owe anybody anything, and that feels good.

59:10

[00 59:14.370 – 00:59:17.270] I, I just don't know how else to say it.

59:13

[00 59:17.270 – 00:59:19.790] Thank you.

59:14

[00 59:19.790 – 00:59:22.770] Chris, do you wanna come in and ask a question of Pat?

59:17

[00 59:22.770 – 00:59:23.890] Thank you, Penny.

59:19

[00 59:23.890 – 00:59:25.590] I'm Chris, I'm an alcoholic.

59:20

[00 59:25.590 – 00:59:31.590] And Pat, I just have one question, which is I wonder if you could talk a little bit about, uh, 12 step calls.

59:27

[00 59:31.590 – 00:59:40.800] Uh, when you came in in 1975, was that how most people found the program versus today how you see people come into the rooms?

59:34

[00 59:40.800 – 00:59:41.690] Absolutely.

59:35

[00 59:41.690 – 00:59:44.090] Uh, when I got sober, there were actual 12 step calls.

59:38

[00 59:44.090 – 00:59:48.310] Central office, you know, somebody would call central office, central office would call me or whoever.

59:43

[00 59:48.310 – 00:59:56.630] And my first 12 step call, they called me, I was sober maybe a year and, um, I was still crying all the time.

59:50

[00 59:56.630 – 01:00:01.270] I didn't, it didn't, I didn't stop to think that I'm supposed to ask somebody to go with me.

59:55

[01 00:01.270 – 01:00:06.610] So I drove over to this girl's house to pick her up to go to a meeting, and she lived in a terrible, terrible neighborhood.

60:03

[01 00:06.610 – 01:00:06.620] Mm-hmm.

60:03

[01 00:06.620 – 01:00:09.090] I mean, really scary, gang kind of neighborhood.

60:06

[01 00:09.090 – 01:00:14.550] And I got out of the car and I went in the house and I got her, and I, I had no idea what to say to her.

60:14

[01 00:14.550 – 01:00:17.990] I mean, I barely knew what I was doing myself, and, but I got her in the car.

60:20

[01 00:17.990 – 01:00:18.890] We went to a meeting.

60:22

[01 00:18.890 – 01:00:24.880] I, we went in the door and I introduced her a cou- uh, to a couple of people who I figured did know what they were doing.

60:30

[01 00:24.880 – 01:00:30.790] And I think I was crying, you know, when we got her to the meeting, but, but at least I got her to the meeting, you know.

60:38

[01 00:30.790 – 01:00:33.850] I'm happy to say I've done better 12 step calls since then.

60:41

[01 00:33.850 – 01:00:36.950] But yeah, today you don't get those kind of 12 step calls anymore.

60:45

[01 00:36.950 – 01:00:38.040] Occasionally I'll get a call f-

60:47

[01 00:38.173 – 01:00:38.863] central office.

60:48

[01 00:38.863 – 01:00:40.563] I don't consider it a 12 step call.

60:50

[01 00:40.563 – 01:00:43.463] What they're looking for is somebody to give somebody a ride to treatment.

60:54

[01 00:43.463 – 01:00:45.983] I do not consider that a 12 step call at all.

60:57

[01 00:45.983 – 01:00:56.143] I, um, a 12 step call is helping somebody, you know, h- passing on what I have learned in Alcoholics, how I stay sober.

61:04

[01 00:56.143 – 01:00:56.683] I didn't go to...

61:06

[01 00:56.683 – 01:00:58.363] There weren't treatment centers when I got sober.

61:08

[01 00:58.363 – 01:01:02.563] I came to Alcoholics Anonymous, I shook, I cried, I stayed sober.

61:12

[01 01:02.563 – 01:01:05.593] And so, um, you know, most everybody comes through...

61:15

[01 01:05.593 – 01:01:12.143] You know, when I was new, people were having seizures in meetings all the time because they're, you know, they're coming off alcohol, and they're...

61:22

[01 01:12.143 – 01:01:14.393] Nobody died, you know?

61:24

[01 01:14.393 – 01:01:17.803] We, we all stayed sober, and now people come through treatment centers.

61:27

[01 01:17.803 – 01:01:25.693] Not, there's nothing wrong with treatment centers, but, but they're all cleaned up, and, and, um, and they think they know a lot about Alcoholics Anonymous, you know?

61:36

[01 01:25.693 – 01:01:31.723] Um, they may know a lot on paper, so to speak, but they really don't know how to stay sober.

61:42

[01 01:31.723 – 01:01:40.603] But it's harder, I think, to, um, to convey to them what Alcoholics Anonymous is, because they do think they know something, you know?

61:49

[01 01:40.603 – 01:01:47.063] Kim, would you like to unmute and come in and ask Pat a question?

61:53

[01 01:47.063 – 01:01:48.703] Yes.

61:54

[01 01:48.703 – 01:01:49.303] Thank you.

61:55

[01 01:49.303 – 01:01:51.463] Um, thank you, Penny, and thank you, Pat.

61:57

[01 01:51.463 – 01:01:54.123] Um, two questions I have, if I may.

62:00

[01 01:54.123 – 01:02:04.143] Um, one is, Pat, do you, do you currently with your sponsees read the book with them, or do you pretty much follow the

62:07

[01 02:04.143 – 01:02:07.603] pattern, you know, read the book that you were raised on?

62:11

[01 02:07.603 – 01:02:17.683] And secondly, um, is there a time when you start working with a woman and, uh, then end your sponsor

62:17

[01 02:17.683 – 01:02:18.463] relationship?

62:17

[01 02:18.463 – 01:02:24.783] I don't like to use the term fire, but, uh, is there any, ever a time you pulled out, said, "I, I cannot sponsor you anymore"?

62:25

[01 02:24.783 – 01:02:25.563] Yeah.

62:26

[01 02:25.563 – 01:02:27.043] I, um- And i- why would that be?

62:28

[01 02:27.043 – 01:02:29.583] I, I sponsor people exactly the way I was sponsored.

62:31

[01 02:29.583 – 01:02:30.683] I tell them to read the book.

62:34

[01 02:30.683 – 01:02:32.503] I do not sit down and read it with them.

62:37

[01 02:32.503 – 01:02:36.963] I actually am reading the book right now with somebody I sponsor who's, I don't know, 30 years sober.

62:42

[01 02:36.963 – 01:02:40.623] She lives a- a- away, you know, far away from me.

62:46

[01 02:40.623 – 01:02:44.983] I don't see her often, and she's not well, so she can't get to a lot of live meetings.

62:52

[01 02:44.983 – 01:02:50.263] So we just decided we were gonna read the book together on the phone, and so we do that, but that's, that's a little bit different.

62:59

[01 02:50.263 – 01:02:51.443] She's not a, a newcomer.

63:01

[01 02:51.443 – 01:02:53.843] Um, what was the other question?

63:03

[01 02:53.843 – 01:02:55.963] Oh, firing sponsees.

63:04

[01 02:55.963 – 01:02:59.743] Um, I have fired a couple.

63:06

[01 02:59.743 – 01:03:09.923] Uh, if they're, if they're not willing to do the simple things I'm asking to do, if they're not going to the meetings, if they're not calling me,

63:15

[01 03:09.923 – 01:03:20.403] uh, if they're, if they, uh, turn down an AA request, you know, I'm like, "Hey, this is not, you know,

63:21

[01 03:20.403 – 01:03:29.323] this is not how I sponsor." I mean, I'm not gonna fire them for one offense, so to speak, but, but if, if you're not gonna consistently do what I'm asking you to do, we're wasting our time.

63:32

[01 03:29.323 – 01:03:33.143] I only know o- one way to stay sober, and that's what I have done.

63:37

[01 03:33.143 – 01:03:36.263] There, there are other ways, but I only know this way that I have done.

63:41

[01 03:36.263 – 01:03:39.723] So if you want me to be your sponsor, you're gonna do this.

63:45

[01 03:39.723 – 01:03:44.103] If you're, if you're, don't wanna do it, that's okay, y- you know, find somebody else.

63:50

[01 03:44.103 – 01:03:48.683] I have sponsored people who have done some ridiculous things that I thought, "Oh, I just turn my hair out," you know?

63:57

[01 03:48.683 – 01:03:50.483] Why would she do such a stupid thing?

63:59

[01 03:50.483 – 01:03:52.583] But I don't fire people for that.

64:02

[01 03:52.583 – 01:03:56.412] I, i- I only, if it's, if they're not doing basic AA.

64:05

[01 03:56.412 – 01:03:58.983] We all make mist- I made mistakes, you know?

64:08

[01 03:58.983 – 01:04:00.583] My sponsor didn't fire me.

64:10

[01 04:00.583 – 01:04:02.203] She helped me figure it out.

64:12

[01 04:02.203 – 01:04:05.743] Clancy used to say, "We n- we're not gonna get drunk from making mistakes.

64:16

[01 04:05.743 – 01:04:10.003] We might get drunk if we're trying to defend them," and I, and I am a firm believer of that.

64:22

[01 04:10.003 – 01:04:15.263] And Amy, you'll be our last question, uh, this evening.

64:26

[01 04:15.263 – 01:04:17.823] Would you like to unmute and come in and ask Pat a question?

64:30

[01 04:17.823 – 01:04:19.463] I would.

64:30

[01 04:19.463 – 01:04:22.603] Um, uh, thanks, Penny and Pat, um, much appreciated.

64:33

[01 04:22.603 – 01:04:31.123] I just wondered if, if the book that the assistant to the Dalai Lama, do you think the book that he recommended is still in print?

64:41

[01 04:31.123 – 01:04:34.903] And would you remember what it was, the meditation book?

64:44

[01 04:34.903 – 01:04:38.203] Um, you know, I, I have it, but I don't remember the title of it.

64:49

[01 04:38.203 – 01:04:40.803] It's, it was something very simple, like how to meditate.

64:52

[01 04:40.803 – 01:04:51.073] Um, uh, and there w- I remember that there were chapters in it, and he said specifically this one chapter would be, you know, one that probably

65:00

[01 04:51.073 – 01:04:57.303] I would relate to, which I did, but I d- I'm, I've got it somewhere on my shelf now, but I, I'd have to look for it.

65:08

[01 04:57.303 – 01:05:00.583] I don't, don't really remember it.

65:10

[01 05:00.583 – 01:05:05.823] Well, Pat, thank you again for being willing to do this.

65:14

[01 05:05.823 – 01:05:05.973] Yeah.

65:14

[01 05:05.973 – 01:05:14.803] I really am just so grateful, and, uh, for those of you that are here, uh, this has been recorded this evening.

65:21

[01 05:14.803 – 01:05:21.003] It will be, um, on Recovery Speakers, and you can go and you can listen to it.

65:26

[01 05:21.003 – 01:05:31.043] I think you can also search through Recovery Speakers for Pat and Vince talking about finance class or, uh, financial amends.

65:32

[01 05:31.043 – 01:05:36.123] You can do a search, uh, using the search engine on Recovery Speakers for that.

65:37

[01 05:36.123 – 01:05:40.043] And, um, and thank you all for being here.

65:40

[01 05:40.043 – 01:05:44.823] Again, just a plug for the Grapevine and the Grapevine podcast.

65:43

[01 05:44.823 – 01:05:47.823] You know, the Grapevine podcast drops every Monday.

65:46

[01 05:47.823 – 01:05:52.063] It is free, and they interview an alcoholic every week.

65:49

[01 05:52.063 – 01:05:56.263] Not all of them have 50 or more years of sobriety like they do in this meeting.

65:54

[01 05:56.263 – 01:06:05.023] Um, but they do interview an alcoholic every week, have a conversation with an alcoholic, and, and give information.

66:00

[01 06:05.023 – 01:06:09.503] You can also access the Grapevine podcast through the Grapevine app.

66:03

[01 06:09.503 – 01:06:14.663] And, um, so that is also, the app itself is free.

66:07

[01 06:14.663 – 01:06:19.383] Some of the access you d- you do have to pay to have a subscription to the archives.

66:12

[01 06:19.383 – 01:06:21.903] So thank you all for being here.

66:14

[01 06:21.903 – 01:06:32.083] And, um, w- although we don't, um, start this meeting with a prayer or usually end with a prayer, let's, um, if you'd like to unmute, let's,

66:22

[01 06:32.083 – 01:06:36.423] uh, close the meeting, uh, tonight with the Serenity Prayer.

66:26

[01 06:36.423 – 01:06:46.443] And let me just say at this, in this time of November and this time of gratitude how grateful I am for all of you for coming

66:34

[01 06:46.443 – 01:06:54.743] to this meeting each month, and that I get to do this, that Recovery Speakers gives me the, the meeting to do this once a month.

66:41

[01 06:54.743 – 01:06:57.003] And, um, so I'm grate- so grateful.

66:44

[01 06:57.003 – 01:07:00.603] So we'll have a moment of silence and then the Serenity Prayer.

66:47

[01 07:00.603 – 01:07:11.583] God- God- God- Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot

66:51

[01 07:11.583 – 01:07:18.963] change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference ...

66:56

[01 07:18.963 – 01:07:19.343] know the difference.

66:57

[01 07:19.343 – 01:07:20.283] Thank you.

66:58

[01 07:20.283 – 01:07:21.663] Thank you, everyone.

The following is an AI-generated transcript. Minor errors may occur. The audio is the authoritative source.

Conversation with Pat Y presented by Conversation with Pat Y – 2025-11-25

Conversation with Pat Y presented by Conversation with Pat Y – 2025-11-25

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