Conversation pt 2 presented by Unknown Speaker – 2025

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Unknown Tuesday Night History Workshop • 2025

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Unknown Unknown Speaker speaking on "Conversation pt 2" in Tuesday Night History Workshop (Unknown Date). This recording is preserved in high-fidelity with interactive scrolling transcripts.

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[00 00:00.260 – 00:00:10.490] Yeah, right So, um- So, uh, as far as 12-step calls were concerned and that, you know, I kind of gave you an idea

0:21

[00 00:10.490 – 00:00:20.500] what I did there, Karen, and, um, the meetings there down in the, uh, downriver area, what we call that area there, were frequented by a lot of the

0:32

[00 00:20.500 – 00:00:21.480] AA old-timers.

0:33

[00 00:21.480 – 00:00:24.800] There were a couple of guys who were part of the original 100.

0:37

[00 00:24.800 – 00:00:29.120] One was Brandy Scribner, and the other one was, uh, Ernie Gehrig.

0:42

[00 00:29.120 – 00:00:36.039] So it was kind of neat to be able to, you know, have these guys show up to these meetings.

0:49

[00 00:36.039 – 00:00:46.200] And the one neat thing about, um, particularly Ernie, he just sim- simply had a pure heart, the guy, and he was able to get the message across

0:59

[00 00:46.200 – 00:00:46.820] very simply.

1:00

[00 00:46.820 – 00:00:55.140] Brandy was just a little bit more of a character, and I had heard that Brandy, um, didn't manage to stay sober after a while.

1:09

[00 00:55.140 – 00:01:05.299] So, and it is one of the interes- interesting things about this program, you know, we have all this history and stuff, and we talk about the original 500 and, and I'm not trying to say anything

1:22

[00 01:05.299 – 00:01:09.579] bad about anybody, but that's just the way we are, you know?

1:27

[00 01:09.579 – 00:01:09.670] Right.

1:28

[00 01:09.670 – 00:01:11.040] And there's no guarantees.

1:29

[00 01:11.040 – 00:01:21.359] And, and that's what my sponsor told me all the time, "There ain't no guarantees." You know, that no matter who you are, what you are, what your history is in this program.

1:41

[00 01:21.359 – 00:01:26.799] And that's why I talk about that drink still waiting for me out there.

1:47

[00 01:26.799 – 00:01:27.459] Yeah.

1:47

[00 01:27.459 – 00:01:35.239] That, um, uh, that I have this addiction problem, and, um, it's, it's gonna go with me to the grave.

1:55

[00 01:35.239 – 00:01:43.579] And I, I hopefully, you know, have, have learned that I'm not trying to quit, I'm just trying to not start today.

2:03

[00 01:43.579 – 00:01:45.120] And that's what it's all about.

2:05

[00 01:45.120 – 00:01:46.099] It's about not starting.

2:07

[00 01:46.099 – 00:01:47.909] It's not about quitting.

2:09

[00 01:47.909 – 00:01:48.140] Right.

2:09

[00 01:48.140 – 00:01:48.859] Yeah.

2:10

[00 01:48.859 – 00:01:53.420] So but you had- So it was kind of neat to have a couple of old-timers like that around.

2:17

[00 01:53.420 – 00:02:03.719] And then, I mean, there were other people that had 25, you know, and, and 30 years too, that were, um, just really, really great people to be with in the program,

2:28

[00 02:03.719 – 00:02:04.099] so.

2:29

[00 02:04.099 – 00:02:06.840] Well, the program was only, what?

2:31

[00 02:06.840 – 00:02:09.300] 31 years old when you got sober.

2:33

[00 02:09.300 – 00:02:09.609] Right.

2:34

[00 02:09.609 – 00:02:13.789] So 25 years is the beginning.

2:36

[00 02:13.789 – 00:02:17.930] Um- Yeah, Bill Boye was one of my, one of the guys that I used to...

2:42

[00 02:17.930 – 00:02:19.599] With the Glenwood group, yeah.

2:44

[00 02:19.599 – 00:02:22.840] He, yeah, he had 25 years when we came in, so yeah.

2:48

[00 02:22.840 – 00:02:28.150] And do you have- I- Do you have stories of experiences with them- Yeah ...

2:54

[00 02:28.150 – 00:02:29.379] that you can share with us?

2:56

[00 02:29.379 – 00:02:31.719] 'Cause that's really what this meeting is about.

2:59

[00 02:31.719 – 00:02:42.680] Do you have- One of the things I was gonna share was, um, and particularly, uh, Ernie and Brandy, um, you know, when they, uh,

3:08

[00 02:42.680 – 00:02:52.180] when they were first in the program, they would all, they would get in their car, they'd take their wives, and they would drive down to Bob's house in Akron.

3:19

[00 02:52.180 – 00:03:02.199] And they'd go in the evening, they'd stay there, um, uh, g- have a meeting in the living room and all that, and the women would go in the kitchen with Anne and

3:31

[00 03:02.199 – 00:03:12.519] that, and then, you know, get to be midnight and then all turn around and drive the three hours back, you know, so that they could get a couple hours sleep and go, um,

3:43

[00 03:12.520 – 00:03:13.860] you know, go to work the next day.

3:47

[00 03:13.860 – 00:03:24.060] So there was a, a real, um, zealousness in terms of wanting to be able to,

3:52

[00 03:24.060 – 00:03:30.079] you know, work the program, stay in touch with, you know, their origins in the program and that.

3:59

[00 03:30.079 – 00:03:34.740] And one of the interesting things, uh, about, um, uh...

4:03

[00 03:34.740 – 00:03:44.780] The program has, um, a, a, a very Christian, uh,

4:07

[00 03:44.780 – 00:03:45.679] background to it.

4:08

[00 03:45.679 – 00:03:50.319] They would, uh, sit in the living room and they would read passages from the Bible.

4:14

[00 03:50.319 – 00:03:55.549] And I, and, you know, before they'd, you know, managed to get the whole 12 steps together.

4:20

[00 03:55.549 – 00:04:00.939] They had the six, um, steps or, um...

4:23

[00 04:00.939 – 00:04:04.840] I forget what they, the, from the Oxford Group.

4:27

[00 04:04.840 – 00:04:07.680] You know- The absolutes ...

4:29

[00 04:07.680 – 00:04:07.710] the absolutes.

4:30

[00 04:07.710 – 00:04:08.780] That's, that's the word, yeah.

4:32

[00 04:08.780 – 00:04:13.500] Anyway, so, so it, it was kind of a hodgepodge of all of that stuff.

4:37

[00 04:13.500 – 00:04:17.420] And, you know, you, you see the evolution in the program nowadays, you know?

4:43

[00 04:17.420 – 00:04:25.860] It, we, we obviously, um, don't use the Bible, you know, in meetings or anything like that.

4:49

[00 04:25.860 – 00:04:35.920] But they were grasping at everything that they could to find, you know, a, a spiritual way of life, and, and that's what was working

4:58

[00 04:35.920 – 00:04:36.939] for them at the time.

5:00

[00 04:36.939 – 00:04:47.259] And as the program grew, as we had, uh, more and more people came in, more minds being able to, um, you know, apply themselves to,

5:09

[00 04:47.259 – 00:04:51.670] you know, how should we make this work, uh, they came up with a pretty good deal, you know?

5:16

[00 04:51.670 – 00:04:54.500] The 12 steps and the, and the 12 traditions, so.

5:20

[00 04:54.500 – 00:04:58.180] So I always found- So- ...

5:22

[00 04:58.180 – 00:05:00.560] that kind of interesting Yeah.

5:24

[00 05:00.560 – 00:05:10.939] That, that I, I love that, and that you had the privilege of, um, sitting in meetings with those, those men who knew Bob,

5:33

[00 05:10.939 – 00:05:14.759] um, and- Yeah, and, and Bill.

5:35

[00 05:14.759 – 00:05:15.939] So yeah.

5:36

[00 05:15.939 – 00:05:16.680] Yeah.

5:37

[00 05:16.680 – 00:05:25.180] So, um, I, uh, so did you have the opportunity to meet Bill Wilson?

5:42

[00 05:25.180 – 00:05:35.199] No, and I, I don't wanna sound, um, flip or anything, it just,

5:47

[00 05:35.199 – 00:05:36.879] I had opportunities.

5:48

[00 05:36.879 – 00:05:37.509] Okay.

5:49

[00 05:37.509 – 00:05:40.000] But I just didn't take the time to meet him, so.

5:53

[00 05:40.000 – 00:05:40.500] Okay.

5:54

[00 05:40.500 – 00:05:48.680] And I mean, he, he came locally, like, to Brighton Hospital up in, uh, Brighton, Michigan.

6:00

[00 05:48.680 – 00:05:58.899] And, um, actually I had, I had started a treatment center there in Ypsi, uh, in 1973 for young drug and alcohol addicts.

6:08

[00 05:58.899 – 00:06:08.129] And the guy that I used for my admitting physician, 'cause I had to have, you know, some kind of legitimacy, I-

6:16

[00 06:08.465 – 00:06:14.835] yes, um, was, uh, a guy named Russ Fis- Smith, and he was, uh, Dr.

6:22

[00 06:14.835 – 00:06:15.944] Bob's nephew.

6:23

[00 06:15.944 – 00:06:23.204] So I kind of got, you know, close, I guess, to the, the family origins or whatever.

6:29

[00 06:23.204 – 00:06:33.384] But, um, so, and, uh, uh, B- Bill would, when he came to Brighton, he always made sure, 'cause, 'cause Russ was up in Whitmore Lake, just south of Brighton,

6:40

[00 06:33.384 – 00:06:36.204] and, and so Bill would visit him frequently.

6:43

[00 06:36.204 – 00:06:38.905] But like I say, I just never kind of got around to it.

6:48

[00 06:38.905 – 00:06:40.305] I, I don't feel bad.

6:50

[00 06:40.305 – 00:06:50.384] I mean, it just, I, uh, I can't say that I, I, uh, it's important to me to be, uh, to have done that or not,

6:59

[00 06:50.384 – 00:06:50.785] you know?

7:00

[00 06:50.785 – 00:07:00.805] I, I got my job to do, and I do it with whoever's available and close by, and that's just, you know, I work the program one

7:10

[00 07:00.805 – 00:07:03.365] day at a time and with the people that are around me.

7:15

[00 07:03.365 – 00:07:06.144] I don't, I guess I wasn't starstruck.

7:17

[00 07:06.144 – 00:07:11.785] St- oh, oh, I forgot to tell you that I have a connection with Brighton.

7:23

[00 07:11.785 – 00:07:12.595] Oh.

7:24

[00 07:12.595 – 00:07:19.625] That, um, I, as a kid, we used to go camping out there at the state park out there.

7:31

[00 07:19.625 – 00:07:20.264] Right, yeah.

7:32

[00 07:20.264 – 00:07:28.605] And we'd go past that Bright- Brighton Hospital, and they always had that sign that said, "No emergency services available." Right.

7:40

[00 07:28.605 – 00:07:35.745] And my parents had tried to get, had gone to AA meeting trying to get my grandpa sober.

7:46

[00 07:35.745 – 00:07:43.845] And so I'd always ask, "Well, why are there no emergency services?" And my mom said, "Well, it's not that kind of hospital." So of course, I'm a kid.

7:57

[00 07:43.845 – 00:07:49.965] "Well, what kind of a hospital is it?" "Well, it's not an emergency hospital." And they never told me what kind of a...

8:05

[00 07:49.965 – 00:07:56.644] And it wasn't until I got sober that I found out that Brighton was a treatment facility.

8:11

[00 07:56.644 – 00:07:57.685] Yeah.

8:12

[00 07:57.685 – 00:08:01.944] And that I'd, I'd been going by it all this time and- Right.

8:17

[00 08:01.944 – 00:08:12.504] Yeah, it was a, it was pretty much a two-week, uh, drying out program, and people would come in there and they'd spend 10 days to two weeks,

8:27

[00 08:12.504 – 00:08:14.605] get dried out and go to a lot of meetings.

8:31

[00 08:14.605 – 00:08:17.124] There were AA meetings there and all that, so.

8:34

[00 08:17.124 – 00:08:20.425] And Bill frequented the place.

8:36

[00 08:20.425 – 00:08:31.345] He, he felt a strong connection to Brighton Hospital, not just because Bob's nephew, you know, was, uh, was

8:43

[00 08:31.345 – 00:08:41.345] working at a, um, he was working at a, a young, a youth, a state youth, uh, program, uh, where they had, you know, young juveniles and

8:53

[00 08:41.345 – 00:08:41.605] that.

8:54

[00 08:41.605 – 00:08:44.555] And Bob was, was, uh, working there.

8:56

[00 08:44.555 – 00:08:46.325] I mean, uh, Russ was working there.

8:59

[00 08:46.325 – 00:08:50.144] So it was convenient for him to be able to touch base, so.

9:04

[00 08:50.144 – 00:08:56.985] Well, and we used to have keggers out at Brighton as teenagers.

9:09

[00 08:56.985 – 00:08:57.014] Right.

9:09

[00 08:57.014 – 00:09:00.345] As high schoolers, we used to have keggers out at, out at Brighton.

9:14

[00 09:00.345 – 00:09:00.904] Oh, yeah.

9:15

[00 09:00.904 – 00:09:02.504] Yeah.

9:16

[00 09:02.504 – 00:09:08.684] We had, I had a lot of keggers at, in Ann Arbor at the university there, for sure.

9:23

[00 09:08.684 – 00:09:09.384] Yes.

9:23

[00 09:09.384 – 00:09:09.413] Yes.

9:24

[00 09:09.413 – 00:09:10.904] I never graduated.

9:26

[00 09:10.904 – 00:09:13.004] You know, I was too busy getting drunk, so.

9:29

[00 09:13.004 – 00:09:14.424] Yeah.

9:30

[00 09:14.424 – 00:09:20.274] So you said that you moved out to Ann Arbor, and you started this treatment facility.

9:36

[00 09:20.274 – 00:09:21.014] Right.

9:36

[00 09:21.014 – 00:09:27.644] And, um, and tell us a little bit about, um, a little bit about that, a little more about that.

9:44

[00 09:27.644 – 00:09:29.764] It was based on the 12 steps.

9:46

[00 09:29.764 – 00:09:29.934] Right.

9:47

[00 09:29.934 – 00:09:38.524] Did you have people from AA coming in to, to speak to, um, the patients, or how did you have that set up?

9:55

[00 09:38.524 – 00:09:47.465] Well, that was pretty much, it, it started originally to be a three to six-month program, primarily for young drug and alcohol addicts.

10:04

[00 09:47.465 – 00:09:57.545] I, um, as I evolved, got more involved in young peoples and different things in, uh, in Michigan, I was asked to sit on a governor's

10:13

[00 09:57.545 – 00:10:07.644] committee, uh, to come up with, um, ideas, suggestions on how to treat and deal with alcoholism.

10:19

[00 10:07.644 – 00:10:17.725] And, um, uh, I, I, uh, I would go to these meetings once a month or whenever

10:26

[00 10:17.725 – 00:10:27.745] we had them and, uh, there'd be a lot of these psychologists and doctors around and everything, and they were all talking about, you know, modalities

10:35

[00 10:27.745 – 00:10:32.105] that were, didn't have anything to do with 12 steps.

10:39

[00 10:32.105 – 00:10:42.305] Um, you know, just keep patients on a, on a, on a, uh, on a regimen of,

10:45

[00 10:42.305 – 00:10:52.345] you know, counseling and, uh, never really do any kind of aftercare in terms of, of, um, follow-up with

10:52

[00 10:52.345 – 00:10:55.904] something like an AA program, going to a, a 12-step meeting.

10:56

[00 10:55.904 – 00:11:05.924] And I got a little frustrated, and it just kind of got to the point where I just said, "I don't think you guys really have, you know, a clue as to how, you know, you can

11:09

[00 11:05.924 – 00:11:14.924] do something to treat this disease and do it successfully." 'Cause they really didn't want to be affiliated with what they would've called a religious program back then at the time.

11:21

[00 11:14.924 – 00:11:16.605] And, um- Right ...

11:22

[00 11:16.605 – 00:11:26.825] and I just more or less got challenged, and I said, "All right, I'll show you." And I had, uh, been hanging out with some people that, uh, had started a farm up in Canada

11:35

[00 11:26.825 – 00:11:34.944] called Sperra, just outside of Montreal, and, um, just took their idea and used it.

11:40

[00 11:34.944 – 00:11:40.184] And, um, essentially, what, what the regimen was was living on a farm.

11:45

[00 11:40.184 – 00:11:41.845] You had animals to take care of.

11:48

[00 11:41.845 – 00:11:44.045] You had assigned chores.

11:50

[00 11:44.045 – 00:11:47.365] You, uh, you learned how to cook meals.

11:53

[00 11:47.365 – 00:11:50.045] Um, you had to take care of the animals on the farm.

11:57

[00 11:50.045 – 00:11:59.664] And so it was all about rebuilding a person's life, getting them, you know, to start from scratch again, bringing them to zero, and they had to stay at that facility.

12:09

[00 11:59.664 – 00:12:04.125] So we would have, you know, we would have a discussion after our breakfast.

12:14

[00 12:04.125 – 00:12:13.004] Um, we did things like first thing in the morning when we woke up, I would, uh, I had been a yoga teacher, so I would, I would do a little yoga.

12:25

[00 12:13.004 – 00:12:16.674] We'd do a half hour's worth of yoga in the morning, and then, uh-

12:31

[00 12:16.806 – 00:12:25.906] By the time the chores were d- done and assigned for the day, cleaning house and, and what have you, uh, we'd have our luncheon meal.

12:40

[00 12:25.906 – 00:12:31.846] We'd have another discussion after the luncheon meal, and that was pretty much the way the whole program worked.

12:47

[00 12:31.846 – 00:12:32.425] You know, we...

12:48

[00 12:32.425 – 00:12:42.515] A- and then we would go into town to go to AA meetings, either in Ypsi or, or in Ann Arbor, and we would take the residents with us, and we would have

13:00

[00 12:42.515 – 00:12:48.566] anywhere from between 6 and, you know, 12, uh, 14 residents at a time.

13:05

[00 12:48.566 – 00:12:56.696] And- So it sounds really like not only based on the 12 steps, but also based on the 12 traditions, 'cause you're talking about- Yeah ...

13:13

[00 12:56.696 – 00:12:57.505] a group conscience.

13:14

[00 12:57.505 – 00:12:59.235] You're talking about- Yeah ...

13:16

[00 12:59.235 – 00:13:02.666] uh, you're talking about self-supporting through our own contributions.

13:20

[00 13:02.666 – 00:13:03.786] We're learning how to cook.

13:22

[00 13:03.786 – 00:13:05.026] We're learning how to- Yeah ...

13:24

[00 13:05.026 – 00:13:05.946] care for ourselves.

13:25

[00 13:05.946 – 00:13:06.125] We're...

13:26

[00 13:06.125 – 00:13:14.605] So you're bringing all of that into play here, and we're getting those principles just through the process of getting sober.

13:34

[00 13:14.605 – 00:13:15.725] Exactly.

13:34

[00 13:15.725 – 00:13:16.605] So.

13:35

[00 13:16.605 – 00:13:19.585] So, so essentially it was a pretty intense, uh, program.

13:39

[00 13:19.585 – 00:13:21.585] It was confrontational.

13:40

[00 13:21.585 – 00:13:26.865] So, um, so, so there was a, a very...

13:44

[00 13:26.865 – 00:13:35.125] Y- you didn't escape, uh, pretty much anything as far as, uh, having to do your inventory in front of the group with everybody.

13:52

[00 13:35.125 – 00:13:45.286] W- once a month we would have what we called a 24-hour session, uh, and we would start, and we would go for 24 hours and, and be in a discussion type meeting.

14:04

[00 13:45.286 – 00:13:55.446] Uh, so we would have some pretty rigorous, um, sessions where people were encouraged, um, not just encouraged, confronted to,

14:11

[00 13:55.446 – 00:13:56.346] you know, come clean.

14:13

[00 13:56.346 – 00:13:59.706] So you left- And that program is still going.

14:17

[00 13:59.706 – 00:14:09.766] It's one of the more successful programs in the country, and it's, uh, it's gotten to the point now where it's, uh, they have recovery houses in Ypsi

14:27

[00 14:09.766 – 00:14:16.906] and Ann Arbor and, uh, you know, uh, different types of living situations.

14:32

[00 14:16.906 – 00:14:23.166] They have, um, they have a, a detox facility, so quite a few, uh...

14:37

[00 14:23.166 – 00:14:24.526] Pretty large campus now.

14:39

[00 14:24.526 – 00:14:27.245] Okay.

14:39

[00 14:27.245 – 00:14:32.346] Um, I know that there's some kind of disruption when I share.

14:44

[00 14:32.346 – 00:14:35.526] People have pointed that out.

14:46

[00 14:35.526 – 00:14:36.745] Everything is turned off.

14:48

[00 14:36.745 – 00:14:37.686] Trust me on that.

14:49

[00 14:37.686 – 00:14:39.706] I don't have anything on behind me.

14:52

[00 14:39.706 – 00:14:46.466] Um, and then I had another question, um, and it just escaped me.

14:57

[00 14:46.466 – 00:14:56.645] Um, so you were in Ann Arbor, Ypsilanti, and then, uh, what got

15:02

[00 14:56.645 – 00:15:03.706] you to Durango, Colorado, and, uh, what are you do- how, how was that relocation?

15:08

[00 15:03.706 – 00:15:06.666] How long were you sober when you relocated to Durango?

15:11

[00 15:06.666 – 00:15:12.006] Um, oh, about close to 20 years so.

15:14

[00 15:12.006 – 00:15:13.725] I, um...

15:15

[00 15:13.725 – 00:15:23.785] That, that farm was a 24-hour-a-day, seven-day-a-week type program, and I had another fella that, uh, helped me with it, and, uh,

15:23

[00 15:23.786 – 00:15:24.745] he, he helped.

15:25

[00 15:24.745 – 00:15:25.885] He co-founded.

15:26

[00 15:25.885 – 00:15:34.605] He, we both lived there and, um, and we both ran the, the, the treatment modality that was there.

15:33

[00 15:34.605 – 00:15:44.625] And, uh, um, after two years, I, um, I had, uh, I had been dating a girl that I met,

15:40

[00 15:44.625 – 00:15:51.946] uh, and she, um, uh, she, she wound up coming into the program.

15:45

[00 15:51.946 – 00:15:53.385] I actually kind of tricked her.

15:48

[00 15:53.385 – 00:16:03.686] I'd gone out with a couple of dates with her, and I said, "I think I want you to meet me at this church on Wednesday night." Oh, that's just mean,

15:59

[00 16:03.686 – 00:16:04.125] Gary.

15:59

[00 16:04.125 – 00:16:05.046] It's, uh- That's mean.

16:01

[00 16:05.046 – 00:16:14.826] So my wife, Beanie, who is still with me today, uh, came to her first AA meeting, and, um, she's been going ever since.

16:10

[00 16:14.826 – 00:16:18.966] So how long is she sober?

16:12

[00 16:18.966 – 00:16:21.926] 52 years, I guess.

16:14

[00 16:21.926 – 00:16:22.286] Yeah.

16:14

[00 16:22.286 – 00:16:25.566] Oh, we're gonna get her contact information from you.

16:18

[00 16:25.566 – 00:16:27.026] I already asked her.

16:20

[00 16:27.026 – 00:16:28.125] She said she didn't wanna do it.

16:23

[00 16:28.125 – 00:16:29.186] Okay.

16:23

[00 16:29.186 – 00:16:31.605] So, but that's, that's the way it is.

16:26

[00 16:31.605 – 00:16:36.326] So and you moved to Durango, Colorado.

16:29

[00 16:36.326 – 00:16:37.696] And so 20 years- Yeah.

16:31

[00 16:37.696 – 00:16:39.826] Well, I, I left, uh, I left the farm.

16:34

[00 16:39.826 – 00:16:43.506] We had, uh, uh, my...

16:37

[00 16:43.506 – 00:16:51.076] Beanie was pregnant, and like I say, it was two years, and it was just more than, you know, I, I- It's a lot ...

16:45

[00 16:51.076 – 00:16:51.665] I was burnt out.

16:47

[00 16:51.665 – 00:16:54.686] And, um, so we moved to...

16:49

[00 16:54.686 – 00:17:04.985] I was offered a job in Nevada, uh, working for the state there to do an alcohol and, uh, drug program for them for the state and

16:59

[00 17:04.985 – 00:17:11.086] to work in a, a rural, uh, clinic out there as a, as a substance abuse counselor.

17:06

[00 17:11.086 – 00:17:21.105] And so I s- I went out there and stayed, you know, for a couple of years and, um, moved to Salt Lake City and, uh, uh, worked in Salt Lake City,

17:17

[00 17:21.105 – 00:17:23.046] started a business there and all that.

17:20

[00 17:23.046 – 00:17:28.006] And then eventually we, uh, we moved to, uh, Durango, Colorado.

17:24

[00 17:28.006 – 00:17:38.105] We bought a bed and breakfast down there and, uh, yeah, and, uh, did that for 10 years, and I, I continued my other business and, you know, and

17:34

[00 17:38.105 – 00:17:42.306] still here today, and I think this is, uh, the last stop for me.

17:39

[00 17:42.306 – 00:17:51.385] So I'm just gonna ask you, um, just one more question actually, and then I'm gonna see if anybody in the, in the room has a question for you.

17:50

[00 17:51.385 – 00:17:56.465] Um, I have relocated in sobriety.

17:52

[00 17:56.465 – 00:18:06.605] I got sober in Honolulu and then moved to Washington, DC, and then traveled, was on the road for several years, and then moved to California, and then Albuquerque, and then back to California.

18:05

[00 18:06.605 – 00:18:15.746] So my experience with moving from Hawaii to Washington, DC was they're not doing it right.

18:11

[00 18:15.746 – 00:18:24.836] How did you adjust to the difference in AA meetings between, now, th- and they're pretty drastic between Michigan-

18:18

[00 18:25.590 – 00:18:29.890] and Nevada between- Oh, yeah So how did you adjust to that?

18:22

[00 18:29.890 – 00:18:30.730] Yeah.

18:23

[00 18:30.730 – 00:18:41.650] You know, it's funny because that, it, uh, I, I'll never forget, I, I went, uh, uh, this was when I was first in a pri- I went down to,

18:34

[00 18:41.650 – 00:18:50.430] I, I had to do a National Guard summer camp training in, in Georgia, and I remember going to a meeting on my way down there in South Carolina, and I couldn't believe it.

18:46

[00 18:50.430 – 00:18:54.410] I, th- th- these guys don't know how to work AA, but I'd only been sober about a year.

18:53

[00 18:54.410 – 00:19:04.510] And yeah, like, like you say, when you really y- you know, um, the, that saying about it's, it's not the place,

19:01

[00 19:04.510 – 00:19:05.430] it's the program.

19:02

[00 19:05.430 – 00:19:09.320] But it's so easy to get hung up on that because- Mm-hmm ...

19:07

[00 19:09.320 – 00:19:19.350] you have such, I had such a, an affiliation, attraction, and that communion with the people that I first met in the program, um, that, you

19:16

[00 19:19.350 – 00:19:29.430] know, to go, and I, I just didn't realize that the mechanics of how a meeting was conducted was not AA, and it took me a while to learn that.

19:27

[00 19:29.430 – 00:19:39.670] But by the time I got to places like, um, you know, Nevada, Utah, there were meetings already, you know, going in, in,

19:36

[00 19:39.670 – 00:19:43.550] in different types of formats and that, and I didn't really seem to have a problem.

19:42

[00 19:43.550 – 00:19:48.250] It just, it took a, a little while, you know, in the beginning to, to get used to that.

19:49

[00 19:48.250 – 00:19:56.990] And one of the other things I wanna say, too, Young People's was probably a very critical and important, uh, thing in my life.

19:57

[00 19:56.990 – 00:19:59.480] I, I really got involved in Young People's.

20:00

[00 19:59.480 – 00:20:01.471] I got involved in the international conferences.

20:03

[00 20:01.471 – 00:20:11.610] We started, uh, there was kinda like a group of us in the central US where we started to have quarterly roundups, and

20:12

[00 20:11.610 – 00:20:21.750] a very intense group of people, and close group of people, and, um, just something that, uh, uh, was, was very crucial for

20:20

[00 20:21.750 – 00:20:23.030] all of us at the time.

20:22

[00 20:23.030 – 00:20:33.350] Um, and it was probably a movement of maybe 100 people or so that, that really, uh, really did do a lot to,

20:31

[00 20:33.350 – 00:20:37.230] to 12-step newer, younger people into the program.

20:34

[00 20:37.230 – 00:20:45.460] And we, we would have these weekend conferences which were pretty intense and pretty enlightening, so yeah.

20:40

[00 20:45.460 – 00:20:46.050] Okay.

20:41

[00 20:46.050 – 00:20:56.070] Um, I do wanna ask, um, since you were involved in the, in the alcoholism treatment industry, did you ever have

20:48

[00 20:56.070 – 00:20:57.810] the opportunity to meet Marty Mann?

20:51

[00 20:57.810 – 00:20:58.830] No.

20:52

[00 20:58.830 – 00:21:00.610] No, okay.

20:53

[00 21:00.610 – 00:21:01.679] No.

20:53

[00 21:01.679 – 00:21:04.471] 'Cause I know she was traveling around the country doing talks.

20:57

[00 21:04.471 – 00:21:04.660] She was, yeah.

20:59

[00 21:04.660 – 00:21:05.460] Just wondered, yeah.

21:00

[00 21:05.460 – 00:21:06.390] Yeah.

21:01

[00 21:06.390 – 00:21:07.020] You know, it's funny.

21:03

[00 21:07.020 – 00:21:17.150] I can't, there were tons of really great speakers and there were circuit speakers and people that, you know, uh, that I met along the way,

21:12

[00 21:17.150 – 00:21:21.910] and I really can't, you know, remember them, and I really don't care.

21:17

[00 21:21.910 – 00:21:22.490] They were good.

21:18

[00 21:22.490 – 00:21:23.650] It was a good talk.

21:21

[00 21:23.650 – 00:21:23.701] Right.

21:21

[00 21:23.701 – 00:21:27.721] I enjoyed myself, and uh, uh, that's- ...

21:24

[00 21:27.721 – 00:21:29.540] just the way it is, you know?

21:27

[00 21:29.540 – 00:21:31.080] I- Yeah, yeah ...

21:28

[00 21:31.080 – 00:21:31.080] yeah.

21:29

[00 21:31.080 – 00:21:31.870] I, I'm trying to remember.

21:31

[00 21:31.870 – 00:21:35.290] There was a Father, uh, Tim, or Tom.

21:34

[00 21:35.290 – 00:21:36.030] Father Tom.

21:35

[00 21:36.030 – 00:21:41.690] Yeah, he, he's a circuit speaker, and I can remember we had him come to Durango.

21:41

[00 21:41.690 – 00:21:46.130] One of the guys there, uh, was, uh, one of his, uh, sponsees.

21:46

[00 21:46.130 – 00:21:48.310] And this is a great story.

21:49

[00 21:48.310 – 00:21:50.951] This Father Tim's just a character.

21:51

[00 21:50.951 – 00:21:55.870] He, he really, he tells a great story, and he, a lot of humor and everything like that.

21:58

[00 21:55.870 – 00:22:05.990] And, and, uh, Alan was so proud to be able to take me up to Father Tim, 'cause Father Tim was probably about 35, you know, 36 years sober

22:07

[00 22:05.990 – 00:22:07.050] at the time, something like that.

22:10

[00 22:07.050 – 00:22:09.370] And, and, uh, and he was a circuit speaker.

22:13

[00 22:09.370 – 00:22:12.770] And he brought, he brought me up to Father Tim and he says, "Tim, I want you to meet Gary.

22:21

[00 22:12.770 – 00:22:22.770] He's got over 50 years sobriety." And Father Tim looked at me and he said, "That's a good start." And that's the way I've tried

22:29

[00 22:22.770 – 00:22:23.270] to live it.

22:31

[00 22:23.270 – 00:22:24.030] You know?

22:32

[00 22:24.030 – 00:22:30.619] I, I just don't get off on all of the, the big name stuff and that.

22:38

[00 22:30.619 – 00:22:35.971] It, it, I just got a job to do, and that's to do it one day at a time and see if I can help another person, so.

22:48

[00 22:35.971 – 00:22:37.590] That's wonderful.

22:49

[00 22:37.590 – 00:22:43.370] I am going to ask the group, Tim, can you take us off of spotlight?

22:55

[00 22:43.370 – 00:22:51.050] And, um, and we're gonna ask the group if, um, anybody has any questions for Gary.

23:01

[00 22:51.050 – 00:22:58.070] Um, if you do, if you have any questions that you wanna ask Gary, would you please raise your virtual hand?

23:08

[00 22:58.070 – 00:23:04.539] We will ask you to turn on your video to ask a question, but we'd like you to come in and...

23:16

[00 23:04.539 – 00:23:10.660] Barb, in Area 48, would you like to, um, unmute and come in and ask Gary a question?

23:22

[00 23:10.660 – 00:23:15.810] Hi, I'm Barb.

23:24

[00 23:15.810 – 00:23:16.790] I'm an alcoholic.

23:25

[00 23:16.790 – 00:23:18.090] Um, thank you for your story.

23:28

[00 23:18.090 – 00:23:20.190] It's been amazing to hear you tonight.

23:30

[00 23:20.190 – 00:23:28.030] Um, only because I know a little bit of Michigan history, you talked about having a lot of resistance with starting the farm.

23:39

[00 23:28.030 – 00:23:36.190] Um, but in that area I know that Eloise Hospital was there, which was one of the state mental hospitals that was, you know, kinda on that same lines.

23:49

[00 23:36.190 – 00:23:38.590] Did that help you with that being there?

23:52

[00 23:38.590 – 00:23:42.870] Could you talk about, you know, how similar the two things were or that type of thing?

23:59

[00 23:42.870 – 00:23:45.250] Or did it not really matter at that point?

24:02

[00 23:45.250 – 00:23:51.350] Well, the guy that was my partner, he worked there at that hospital.

24:07

[00 23:51.350 – 00:23:59.890] And he, he would continue working during the day and come out and do the night shift at the farm while I did the d- morning, you know, day shift at the farm.

24:19

[00 23:59.890 – 00:24:02.150] So Jack, uh, Schultes and that.

24:21

[00 24:02.150 – 00:24:08.951] So, so yeah, the state hospital, um, we worked kinda closely, and there were people there.

24:27

[00 24:08.951 – 00:24:14.530] We would actually go out to and do little talks and stuff at the hospital out there also.

24:34

[00 24:14.530 – 00:24:18.770] Thanks, Barb.

24:35

[00 24:18.770 – 00:24:21.750] Anyone else have a question for Gary?

24:38

[00 24:21.750 – 00:24:24.650] Yeah.

24:39

[00 24:24.650 – 00:24:29.240] Roger, would you like to unmute and come in and, um, ask Gary a question?

24:44

[00 24:29.240 – 00:24:31.850] Hi, Gary.

24:45

[00 24:31.850 – 00:24:32.240] Thanks.

24:46

[00 24:32.240 – 00:24:33.260] Um, I really appreciate-

24:48

[00 24:34.251 – 00:24:36.371] all these conversations that we have.

24:50

[00 24:36.371 – 00:24:42.711] Um, I'm curious about the, um, the perception of young people's groups in AA in the '60s.

24:57

[00 24:42.711 – 00:24:47.211] I, um, had a opportunity to meet a guy named Frank H.

25:01

[00 24:47.211 – 00:24:55.031] out in California that was traveling around trying to go to lots of, uh, very involved in Ikikpa and those kinds of things.

25:10

[00 24:55.031 – 00:25:03.831] But what was it like, uh, the perception, uh, from mainstream AA and, um, if, if you had challenges, how did you guys overcome those?

25:19

[00 25:03.831 – 00:25:07.291] And, um, I- I'm just curious what it was like then.

25:23

[00 25:07.291 – 00:25:08.091] Thanks.

25:24

[00 25:08.091 – 00:25:08.431] Yeah.

25:24

[00 25:08.431 – 00:25:18.671] Um, one nice thing about young people is we were totally independent and, and didn't really, you know, uh, associate

25:32

[00 25:18.671 – 00:25:24.291] or frequent too much with, with, uh, you know, regular AA meetings and that.

25:37

[00 25:24.291 – 00:25:31.311] And I, and I like to think too, I, I, I know that we got one of the first gay groups started in the Detroit area.

25:46

[00 25:31.311 – 00:25:42.131] Um, so that was primarily the result of, of young people in AA, and there were more, you know, gay people who were willing,

25:55

[00 25:42.131 – 00:25:45.431] would come to AA because there was more of an understanding and acceptance.

26:00

[00 25:45.431 – 00:25:55.231] And I'll tell you a cute story about how, how it was an adversarial relationship a little bit between young peoples and the older groups.

26:09

[00 25:55.231 – 00:26:05.371] And once a week, twice a week, uh, we would take all of the members of the farm that I, I, I was involved in, and

26:19

[00 26:05.371 – 00:26:13.551] we would go to an, a regular AA meeting where the, the, uh, older generation was.

26:25

[00 26:13.551 – 00:26:18.531] And back then, um, the meetings were all closed with the Lord's Prayer.

26:29

[00 26:18.531 – 00:26:26.231] And, uh, um, young people were very affectionate.

26:33

[00 26:26.231 – 00:26:29.671] We would hug each other, and we would always hold hands.

26:37

[00 26:29.671 – 00:26:39.671] And so I would place people from our farm around the room, 'cause there'd be a big circle, and put them in between all the older people, and then we

26:48

[00 26:39.671 – 00:26:44.691] would grab people's hands at the end of the, at the end of the meeting.

26:53

[00 26:44.691 – 00:26:47.891] 'Cause they would stand there with their hands over their crotches.

26:57

[00 26:47.891 – 00:26:57.291] So, um, I like to think that we kind of brought in a little bit of, uh, affection into these groups.

27:05

[00 26:57.291 – 00:27:02.131] Because they, they continue to do it to this day, to hold hands now at the end of a meeting.

27:12

[00 27:02.131 – 00:27:05.211] That's...

27:13

[00 27:05.211 – 00:27:06.791] I love that.

27:15

[00 27:06.791 – 00:27:07.431] Thank you.

27:16

[00 27:07.431 – 00:27:13.491] Uh, d- uh, Chili, would you like, Chili Charlie, would you like to come in and ask Gary a question?

27:23

[00 27:13.491 – 00:27:15.990] Absolutely.

27:24

[00 27:15.990 – 00:27:19.651] Uh, thank you, Penny, and thank you, Gary.

27:27

[00 27:19.651 – 00:27:22.851] Uh, great, uh, hearing your stories.

27:29

[00 27:22.851 – 00:27:27.671] And I, my question, uh, is also along the young people's lines.

27:34

[00 27:27.671 – 00:27:34.501] And when was your first Ikikpa, and do you happen to remember Ikikpa in Indianapolis in 1974?

27:40

[00 27:34.501 – 00:27:39.951] I didn't go to Indianapolis.

27:42

[00 27:39.951 – 00:27:50.251] I only, I started, my first Ikikpa was, um, uh, in Philadelphia, and it was like the sixth one, I

27:49

[00 27:50.251 – 00:27:50.571] think.

27:50

[00 27:50.571 – 00:27:54.671] Uh, young peoples was just obviously getting started.

27:53

[00 27:54.671 – 00:28:02.351] So the first one I went to was in, in, uh, Philadelphia, and I think the last one I went to was in Reno, Nevada.

28:02

[00 28:02.351 – 00:28:06.511] So I maybe went to four different Ikikpas.

28:05

[00 28:06.511 – 00:28:16.431] And as I say, we had kind of a core group of people in the Midwest where we would, we would really focus on these, uh, quarterly, uh, roundups.

28:16

[00 28:16.431 – 00:28:20.251] Thanks, Gary.

28:17

[00 28:20.251 – 00:28:25.351] Uh, Eduardo, would you like to come in and ask Gary a question?

28:22

[00 28:25.351 – 00:28:28.311] Hi, Gary.

28:23

[00 28:28.311 – 00:28:37.071] Thanks, uh, for sharing, um, the facility, um, that you ha- started back then.

28:28

[00 28:37.071 – 00:28:42.231] Uh, the name of it, and did they eventually go professional?

28:32

[00 28:42.231 – 00:28:46.731] We have a farm here in New England where I am now.

28:37

[00 28:46.731 – 00:28:50.531] People are very familiar with the High Watch Farm.

28:40

[00 28:50.531 – 00:28:51.451] Right.

28:41

[00 28:51.451 – 00:28:51.950] Mm-hmm.

28:42

[00 28:51.950 – 00:29:02.131] Um, yeah, and it was offered to the pr- uh, fellowship, and the fel- Bill had to resi- you know, uh, re- say, you know, that we couldn't take on any property

28:53

[00 29:02.131 – 00:29:03.091] as a fellowship.

28:55

[00 29:03.091 – 00:29:10.551] But it, it stayed non-professional when I went there, uh, to visit, uh, and Father Martin was talking there.

29:02

[00 29:10.551 – 00:29:12.061] So I don't know.

29:03

[00 29:12.061 – 00:29:16.951] That's some years ago, probably some years ago, maybe 15, maybe longer.

29:08

[00 29:16.951 – 00:29:25.091] But, um, what was the name of it, and did they professionalize it, or did they keep it, uh, uh, otherwise?

29:15

[00 29:25.091 – 00:29:27.551] Yes and yes.

29:17

[00 29:27.551 – 00:29:28.991] It was Dawn Farm.

29:18

[00 29:28.991 – 00:29:36.631] And so they still use the basic, you know, the 12 steps of the AA program and have meetings there now.

29:26

[00 29:36.631 – 00:29:39.071] But they did professionalize it.

29:28

[00 29:39.071 – 00:29:44.311] They have, uh, counselors on staff, psychologists, you know, that sort of thing.

29:33

[00 29:44.311 – 00:29:54.411] I, um, you know, I, I hustled every way I could to get money to keep that place going, and one of the ways that I got money was I would go to the,

29:45

[00 29:54.411 – 00:29:58.091] um, county and put the people on welfare.

29:48

[00 29:58.091 – 00:30:03.451] So, um, so we'd get a welfare check coming in to the, to the farm.

29:54

[00 30:03.451 – 00:30:06.531] I mean, it was a nonprofit organization, still is to this day.

29:58

[00 30:06.531 – 00:30:16.591] But, um, in order to do detox and other things like that, as the pri- farm grew and became, you know, a much bigger, um, organization,

30:08

[00 30:16.591 – 00:30:21.721] uh, yeah, it, it had to have professionals, uh, working at it.

30:12

[00 30:21.721 – 00:30:31.811] But still the basic principle, uh, of the farm is that to, to use the AA 12 steps as a primary, uh, recovery mechanism,

30:21

[00 30:31.811 – 00:30:35.691] aside from, you know, counseling and, and that.

30:24

[00 30:35.691 – 00:30:40.971] Uh, Eduardo, you're, you're muted if you'd like to unmute

30:28

[00 30:42.036 – 00:30:43.996] Oh, what's the name of it, uh, Gary?

30:31

[00 30:43.996 – 00:30:45.496] Dawn Farm.

30:32

[00 30:45.496 – 00:30:48.096] D-A-W-N Oh, okay.

30:33

[00 30:48.096 – 00:30:49.016] Yeah, great.

30:34

[00 30:49.016 – 00:30:59.216] Uh, yeah, I, uh, I, I attended five internationals, and one of the thing that came out of fellowship about the young peoples was that

30:43

[00 30:59.216 – 00:31:08.476] this whole business of, uh, speaking back to the, uh, speaker when he says, "Hi, I'm Gary, an alcoholic," you would dare not say anything.

30:53

[00 31:08.476 – 00:31:09.106] Yeah.

30:53

[00 31:09.106 – 00:31:14.085] But we eventually, they would, um, say, "Hi, Gary." Right.

30:57

[00 31:14.085 – 00:31:18.756] You know, most meetings will do that now, and I, I first witnessed that.

31:02

[00 31:18.756 – 00:31:22.776] And do you remember huggies, where you get up and you had a huggy break?

31:08

[00 31:22.776 – 00:31:22.886] Yeah.

31:09

[00 31:22.886 – 00:31:24.256] I think we called them huggies.

31:11

[00 31:24.256 – 00:31:28.576] Or, um, there was another name for it, where they'd just break the meeting.

31:16

[00 31:28.576 – 00:31:28.996] Okay.

31:17

[00 31:28.996 – 00:31:29.776] Oh, fuzzy.

31:18

[00 31:29.776 – 00:31:33.216] I might have called it fuzzy, but everybody'd get up and they'd hug each other.

31:24

[00 31:33.216 – 00:31:33.916] Yeah.

31:24

[00 31:33.916 – 00:31:34.976] Uh, yeah.

31:25

[00 31:34.976 – 00:31:38.216] Yeah, I think they were called fuzzy.

31:28

[00 31:38.216 – 00:31:40.566] Mike, do you wanna come in and ask a question?

31:32

[00 31:40.566 – 00:31:44.096] Yes, thank you.

31:33

[00 31:44.096 – 00:31:48.236] This has been a wonderful, um, presentation tonight.

31:37

[00 31:48.236 – 00:31:48.596] Thank you.

31:38

[00 31:48.596 – 00:31:50.516] I'm so glad I was here.

31:40

[00 31:50.516 – 00:31:51.716] Are we...

31:41

[00 31:51.716 – 00:31:52.946] Uh, am I unplugged?

31:43

[00 31:52.946 – 00:31:53.756] Okay.

31:44

[00 31:53.756 – 00:31:54.336] Yeah.

31:44

[00 31:54.336 – 00:31:56.536] Um, thank you again.

31:46

[00 31:56.536 – 00:32:06.576] Uh, yeah, you, you had mentioned, um, uh, that you would, you would detox people, and, and then, uh, I, I was wondering what methods

31:55

[00 32:06.576 – 00:32:07.056] you used.

31:56

[00 32:07.056 – 00:32:13.896] I presume you detoxed them before, um, uh, before it was professionalized.

32:01

[00 32:13.896 – 00:32:16.456] I got sober in Atlanta in the Biscayne Room.

32:04

[00 32:16.456 – 00:32:19.336] Um, there was a woman that was kind of famous.

32:08

[00 32:19.336 – 00:32:27.776] Um, I can't even think of her name off the top of my head, but she had a little room at the clubhouse where she would literally detox guys.

32:19

[00 32:27.776 – 00:32:33.556] Um, but yeah, I was curious what were your, what your methods were or what you used.

32:25

[00 32:33.556 – 00:32:40.276] Um, just candy and ...

32:27

[00 32:40.276 – 00:32:40.306] Oh.

32:27

[00 32:40.306 – 00:32:47.895] They would detox right there at the farm, and, and we would just do our best to help them get through, you know, that, that period.

32:37

[00 32:47.895 – 00:32:48.946] Now- That was it ...

32:39

[00 32:48.946 – 00:32:55.276] as the farm's grown over the years and become more professional, they actually have a formal defo- detox facility.

32:46

[00 32:55.276 – 00:32:58.416] But at first it was just they'd detox.

32:49

[00 32:58.416 – 00:32:59.496] They went cold turkey.

32:50

[00 32:59.496 – 00:33:02.316] Okay.

32:51

[00 33:02.316 – 00:33:04.545] And Teresa, would you- Hi, Teresa ...

32:54

[00 33:04.545 – 00:33:07.976] would you like to come in and, um, ask Gary a question?

32:58

[00 33:07.976 – 00:33:09.016] Sure.

32:59

[00 33:09.016 – 00:33:10.376] Treska, alcoholic.

33:00

[00 33:10.376 – 00:33:11.376] Uh, thanks, Gary.

33:01

[00 33:11.376 – 00:33:12.236] Appreciate it.

33:02

[00 33:12.236 – 00:33:22.496] Um, I'm kind of curious, uh, when you mentioned how you worked the steps, I listen to a lot of speakers and a lot of history, and it, and it seems like, um, uh,

33:15

[00 33:22.496 – 00:33:32.536] using the big book as a way of w- working the steps was sort of not, uh, i- in fashion or something, um, in, in the mid

33:24

[00 33:32.536 – 00:33:33.836] or late '60s.

33:26

[00 33:33.836 – 00:33:39.156] I've heard a lot of people talk, and then that Joe and Charlie sort of b- brought it back- Yeah ...

33:33

[00 33:39.156 – 00:33:44.856] into popularity as a, as a, as a real methodology of, you know, a real concrete way of working the steps.

33:41

[00 33:44.856 – 00:33:46.476] Um, how were...

33:43

[00 33:46.476 – 00:33:50.656] You know, in all those, all that time, how were you, uh, how were you taking people through the steps?

33:50

[00 33:50.656 – 00:33:52.356] How were people taking each other through the steps?

33:53

[00 33:52.356 – 00:33:53.476] How were people sponsoring?

33:55

[00 33:53.476 – 00:34:00.356] Well, there wasn't any sponsoring, um, at, uh, at, at the farm.

34:00

[00 34:00.356 – 00:34:02.456] They were, they were...

34:01

[00 34:02.456 – 00:34:04.496] We just had meetings every day.

34:04

[00 34:04.496 – 00:34:07.036] We had discussion groups, three a day.

34:07

[00 34:07.036 – 00:34:16.196] And, um, and we would focus on the steps, and we would focus on, uh, getting people to do their inventories, bring it, bring it out and that.

34:17

[00 34:16.196 – 00:34:26.196] Um, as far as going out on 12-step calls, just through young peoples or through regular AA meetings and that, and

34:25

[00 34:26.196 – 00:34:27.277] 12-stepping people.

34:26

[00 34:27.277 – 00:34:36.956] Um, I guess w- you know, we would use the big book, but the primary thing was meetings.

34:32

[00 34:36.956 – 00:34:47.135] It was getting a person to a meeting and continuing, again, getting them to continue to go to meetings until they could get to the point where they could s- sit down and start to read the big book,

34:46

[00 34:47.136 – 00:34:49.456] work with another individual and that sort of thing.

34:50

[00 34:49.456 – 00:34:57.317] But primarily back then, the focus was when you 12-step people, you got them to meetings and you kept them going to meetings, so.

34:58

[00 34:57.317 – 00:35:01.896] And there was a lot of socialization before and after too, meetings, so.

35:03

[00 35:01.896 – 00:35:08.896] Gary, I just wanna thank you so much for being willing to do this.

35:09

[00 35:08.896 – 00:35:15.356] Thank you for, for taking a cold call from me and, and being willing to come over and do that.

35:16

[00 35:15.356 – 00:35:25.536] And I was wondering if there's anything that I didn't ask you about that you really like to share out of your story, any adventure that you had, or

35:26

[00 35:25.536 – 00:35:28.876] any question that you hoped I would ask and I didn't.

35:31

[00 35:28.876 – 00:35:30.277] Oh, there could...

35:32

[00 35:30.277 – 00:35:34.236] There's lots, but, you know, we'll, we'll, uh, we'll call it quits there.

35:37

[00 35:34.236 – 00:35:35.856] It's kinda, kinda...

35:38

[00 35:35.856 – 00:35:45.986] It's been an interesting, um, career in AA for me, and it's been, you know, uh, I'm glad that alcohol kept me alive long enough to get me in the program, that it didn't

35:51

[00 35:45.986 – 00:35:47.336] kill me before I got here.

35:53

[00 35:47.336 – 00:35:56.576] So, um, uh, I'm truly grateful for, for that, and I've had a blessed, you know, very blessed way of life in this, in this program.

36:02

[00 35:56.576 – 00:35:59.416] And I still do things a little bit unconventionally.

36:06

[00 35:59.416 – 00:36:02.277] I'm not, you know, we're not saints, you know?

36:09

[00 36:02.277 – 00:36:07.016] Well, thank you so much for this.

36:12

[00 36:07.016 – 00:36:07.406] We're getting close, though.

36:14

[00 36:07.406 – 00:36:08.086] I, I really appreciate it.

36:16

[00 36:08.086 – 00:36:13.916] They talk about spiritual perfection, and I've been in almost 59 years now, so I'm getting close.

36:22

[00 36:13.916 – 00:36:15.936] Getting close.

36:23

[00 36:15.936 – 00:36:20.076] Okay.

36:24

[00 36:20.076 – 00:36:23.436] Well, thank you again so much for being willing to do this.

36:28

[00 36:23.436 – 00:36:25.336] It was just a delight to talk to you.

36:32

[00 36:25.336 – 00:36:29.096] We have put a flyer in the chat for next month's meeting.

36:36

[00 36:29.096 – 00:36:33.436] We'll be talking to Jimmy D from, uh, Long Island, New York.

36:41

[00 36:33.436 – 00:36:36.996] And, um, I will turn it back over to Tim.

36:45

[00 36:36.996 – 00:36:38.616] Tim, it's up to you.

36:47

[00 36:38.616 – 00:36:40.016] Thanks.

36:48

[00 36:40.016 – 00:36:40.176] All right.

36:49

[00 36:40.176 – 00:36:43.817] Thank you so much, Penny, and thank you, Gary, for being here.

36:53

[00 36:43.817 – 00:36:43.866] You're welcome.

36:54

[00 36:43.866 – 00:36:48.556] And, uh, now I will allow everyone to unmute and thank Gary and Penny.

The following is an AI-generated transcript. Minor errors may occur. The audio is the authoritative source.

Conversation pt 2 presented by Unknown Speaker – 2025

Conversation pt 2 presented by Unknown Speaker – 2025

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