BTS Bill W Consious Contact presented by Jay S – 2025-05-06

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Unknown Tuesday Night History Workshop • 2025

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Unknown ABOUT THIS WORKSHOP

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Unknown Jay S speaking on "BTS Bill W Consious Contact" in Tuesday Night History Workshop (May 06, 2025). This recording is preserved in high-fidelity with interactive scrolling transcripts.

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Unknown Interactive Transcript

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[00 00:02.759 – 00:00:06.700] Welcome to the Tuesday Night Recovery Speakers History Workshop.

0:17

[00 00:06.700 – 00:00:09.119] Thank you everyone for joining us tonight.

0:19

[00 00:09.119 – 00:00:15.560] My name is Tim, and tonight we have a great presentation led by Jay S.

0:25

[00 00:15.560 – 00:00:26.059] And Jay will be presenting a behind-the-scenes of Bill W.: Conscious Contact, the new film just released on

0:32

[00 00:26.059 – 00:00:28.480] Friday, a few days ago.

0:34

[00 00:28.480 – 00:00:32.740] So looking forward to tonight, and we will also have some guests here with Jay.

0:39

[00 00:32.740 – 00:00:40.039] And we meet every Tuesday night at the same time and at the same Zoom ID number.

0:46

[00 00:40.039 – 00:00:43.840] And next week we will have Nancy K.

0:49

[00 00:43.840 – 00:00:48.020] presenting Women of the Big Book, and that will actually be the next two weeks.

0:54

[00 00:48.020 – 00:00:58.060] This meeting is being recorded, and the audio from tonight's presentation as well as all of our past presentations can be found

1:02

[00 00:58.060 – 00:01:00.240] at recoveryspeakers.com.

1:04

[00 01:00.240 – 00:01:10.260] This meeting is, uh, not affiliated with any 12-step organization, although our goal is

1:09

[00 01:10.260 – 00:01:14.519] to focus on the history of AA and other 12-step fellowships.

1:13

[00 01:14.519 – 00:01:25.219] Recoveryspeakers.com is dedicated to preserving and making the audio history of AA and the 12-step movement

1:20

[00 01:25.219 – 00:01:27.640] available for everyone today and in the future.

1:23

[00 01:27.640 – 00:01:35.299] We share a daily email that features a different speaker talk from the Recovery Speakers audio library.

1:29

[00 01:35.299 – 00:01:43.379] Included in the daily emails are links to the recordings of this meeting, as well as information about upcoming presentations.

1:36

[00 01:43.379 – 00:01:52.920] If you would like to receive our daily email, you can subscribe through the link I shared in the chat, and I will send it again for anyone, uh, joining us late.

1:48

[00 01:52.920 – 00:02:01.480] And, uh, or you can send me any, a message at info@recoveryspeakers.com and I will get you added to our email list.

1:57

[00 02:01.480 – 00:02:07.480] And Recovery Speakers is an official 501[c]3 public charity.

2:00

[00 02:07.480 – 00:02:17.579] Um, if you are able to, we accept contributions which allow us to continue our work, and I have shared in the chat the different ways to make contributions, or

2:11

[00 02:17.639 – 00:02:20.580] you can use the QR code that is up on the screen now.

2:16

[00 02:20.580 – 00:02:23.560] And thank you for all of your support.

2:19

[00 02:23.560 – 00:02:33.560] And tonight we should have some time for Q&A, um, so if you have any questions throughout the presentation, please write them down and be prepared to ask questions at

2:30

[00 02:33.560 – 00:02:34.060] the end.

2:31

[00 02:34.060 – 00:02:41.419] And now I am going to go ahead and turn it over to Mike to introduce Jay.

2:38

[00 02:41.419 – 00:02:43.618] Thank you, Tim.

2:39

[00 02:43.618 – 00:02:52.659] Thanks for all you do to make these meetings work, all the prep and getting it ready and getting the announcements out and testing everything.

2:48

[00 02:52.659 – 00:02:54.719] I'd like to welcome everyone.

2:50

[00 02:54.719 – 00:03:01.180] We have been doing these meetings for, Tim, we just celebrated an anniversary.

2:55

[00 03:01.180 – 00:03:03.139] Five years.

2:56

[00 03:03.139 – 00:03:12.699] We started this at the beginning of COVID, and we, we have completed five years of doing the history workshops weekly.

3:04

[00 03:12.699 – 00:03:19.479] So thank you for hanging in there with us, and we hope that we've provided a lot of material that people have enjoyed.

3:12

[00 03:19.479 – 00:03:22.379] I know your feedback's been fantastic.

3:15

[00 03:22.379 – 00:03:32.419] Speaking of feedback, it would be unlike me if I didn't at least mention that we really could use some donations to help get

3:23

[00 03:32.419 – 00:03:35.000] this new library digitized.

3:25

[00 03:35.000 – 00:03:38.860] Um, the cost of it, uh, is very, very expensive.

3:29

[00 03:38.860 – 00:03:44.259] And, uh, and we just picked it up, and it's from the Akron, Cleveland area.

3:35

[00 03:44.259 – 00:03:50.960] So we're looking forward to digging into it and seeing what some of these old reel-to-reels have.

3:41

[00 03:50.960 – 00:04:00.180] So, uh, tonight's presentation by Jay is something that's very special to Recovery Speakers.

3:46

[00 04:00.180 – 00:04:06.680] Jay has been one of our strongest sup- supporters since we've started.

3:51

[00 04:06.680 – 00:04:12.300] He's been a dear friend of mine for, I think, probably 25 years.

3:55

[00 04:12.300 – 00:04:22.379] And, uh, he told me about this project a couple years ago, and, uh, a- a- and it's, how it started out and how it evolved and, and then

4:06

[00 04:22.379 – 00:04:25.939] what it is today, and what he's gonna talk to you about tonight.

4:11

[00 04:25.939 – 00:04:36.040] And he's, uh, Tim put in the chat the link to the, to the new movie, and I really have to say that I believe that this

4:20

[00 04:36.040 – 00:04:44.279] movie will give people a better understanding of Bill Wilson outside of Alcoholics Anonymous.

4:26

[00 04:44.279 – 00:04:46.899] So Jay, I love you.

4:28

[00 04:46.899 – 00:04:56.240] Thank you so much for being here tonight and sharing with us your hard work and what you've done and, uh, introducing us to people like Kevin.

4:38

[00 04:56.240 – 00:04:56.920] Thank you.

4:39

[00 04:56.920 – 00:05:00.720] Well, thank you, Michael.

4:40

[00 05:00.720 – 00:05:02.560] Hey, everybody.

4:41

[00 05:02.560 – 00:05:05.879] Um, the baby is born.

4:44

[00 05:05.879 – 00:05:16.250] And, uh, and thank you all and, and, uh, for, for those of you who've gone on and

4:50

[00 05:16.250 – 00:05:25.009] purchased it and those that, those that you haven't yet, I, I hope that you do and I hope you inflict it on, on, uh, on others.

5:00

[00 05:25.009 – 00:05:33.639] Um, we have tonight with us my friend and colleague, uh, Kevin Hamlin, director of the film.

5:06

[00 05:33.639 – 00:05:37.959] Um, and, uh, I'm gonna say a couple words.

5:10

[00 05:37.959 – 00:05:48.000] Then we'll show the trailer of the movie so you get an idea, and then we'll, uh, get into a conversation about the way

5:19

[00 05:48.000 – 00:05:49.319] the film evolved.

5:20

[00 05:49.319 – 00:05:59.370] Um, and I really, um, I did not have the appreciation for what a director and

5:26

[00 05:59.370 – 00:06:01.819] an editor is, and Kevin is both.

5:29

[00 06:01.819 – 00:06:04.060] Some people are bipolar.

5:30

[00 06:04.060 – 00:06:06.620] Kevin's got a couple of problems.

5:33

[00 06:06.620 – 00:06:09.620] He's a, he's a, he's a director and an editor.

5:37

[00 06:09.620 – 00:06:18.160] So, um, we'll, but, but, uh, his contribution and the way that he's shaped this, this film has been incredible.

5:44

[00 06:18.160 – 00:06:28.160] And, um, uh, so we'll talk a little bit about that and, uh, how it evolved, because it was a very, very interesting

5:52

[00 06:28.160 – 00:06:28.399] thing.

5:53

[00 06:28.399 – 00:06:38.439] Uh, my, uh, my beloved Janine, she, uh, has, uh, um, done yeoman's work in the post-production and

6:00

[00 06:38.439 – 00:06:38.759] the like.

6:01

[00 06:38.759 – 00:06:45.949] But she described this thing as, uh, so sweetly she said, um, she said the story-

6:07

[00 06:46.056 – 00:06:54.896] Was up in the ether, and it was there for all these years, and then one day I looked down and said, "There's Stinnett.

6:16

[00 06:54.896 – 00:06:56.756] He can pull it off" Yeah.

6:18

[00 06:56.756 – 00:06:59.016] And, and so I haven't.

6:20

[00 06:59.016 – 00:07:02.976] So we'll, we'll tell that story about, about that, how that came about.

6:25

[00 07:02.976 – 00:07:07.435] But, uh, Tim, why don't you go ahead and, and show these folks the trailer to the film?

6:32

[00 07:07.435 – 00:07:15.916] I had no idea who Bill W.

6:34

[00 07:15.916 – 00:07:17.576] was at the time.

6:36

[00 07:17.576 – 00:07:22.636] And I said, "I don't know who you are talking about." And then I found out who Bill W.

6:43

[00 07:22.636 – 00:07:23.136] was.

6:44

[00 07:23.136 – 00:07:26.636] He was a pioneer.

6:46

[00 07:26.636 – 00:07:32.396] Pioneers are people that go places that other people are afraid to go.

6:51

[00 07:32.396 – 00:07:40.836] The man was an active seeker, always trying to find new ways so that he could grow spiritually.

6:57

[00 07:40.836 – 00:07:50.036] In those formal introductions today, I agreed to abide by the rules of Alcoholics Anonymous.

7:03

[00 07:50.036 – 00:07:55.476] Uh, uh, Bill, do you want to just start right out by telling us how and when you founded AA?

7:10

[00 07:55.476 – 00:07:56.956] Yes.

7:11

[00 07:56.956 – 00:08:06.956] One of the really fascinating things about this man is the white light experience he had that convinced him of the validity of the spiritual side, as

7:21

[00 08:06.956 – 00:08:09.636] opposed to the materialist he had been right up until that point.

7:25

[00 08:09.636 – 00:08:14.506] For the first time, I knew absolute and utter hopelessness.

7:29

[00 08:14.506 – 00:08:18.016] I knew that I had no personal power to go on.

7:33

[00 08:18.016 – 00:08:19.755] There's no place to go.

7:35

[00 08:19.755 – 00:08:21.136] So what does he do?

7:37

[00 08:21.136 – 00:08:29.036] He yells out, "If there be a God, will He show Himself to me?" And then bang, it happens.

7:44

[00 08:29.036 – 00:08:33.436] The essence of what happened to Bill Wilson gets lost because it's a cliche.

7:50

[00 08:33.436 – 00:08:39.895] People love to feel like they've connected, I've found, to some part of, of his journey.

7:56

[00 08:39.895 – 00:08:46.736] Then we end up with this whole new enthusiasm that he tried at near the end of his life, a mantra meditation.

8:04

[00 08:46.736 – 00:08:47.916] I gave him his mantra.

8:06

[00 08:47.916 – 00:08:49.496] 20 minutes passed.

8:07

[00 08:49.496 – 00:08:56.855] The door bursts open, and Bill comes rushing in and he says, "This thing works." I said, "Bill, it's your first time.

8:15

[00 08:56.855 – 00:08:58.896] Take it easy." So...

8:17

[00 08:58.896 – 00:09:01.996] All human beings, we have a hole in ourselves.

8:20

[00 09:01.996 – 00:09:05.116] Wilson basically said you need to pour some of that spiritual stuff in there.

8:25

[00 09:05.116 – 00:09:08.075] Again, we're back to the 11th step, prayer and meditation.

8:29

[00 09:08.075 – 00:09:08.536] Mm-hmm.

8:30

[00 09:08.536 – 00:09:10.076] I think it's a brilliant, brilliant message.

8:33

[00 09:10.076 – 00:09:14.876] He said to me later, "I never understood the 11th step." I said, "What do you mean?

8:39

[00 09:14.876 – 00:09:17.876] You wrote it." He said, "No, I didn't write it.

8:43

[00 09:17.876 – 00:09:27.996] It came to me as an inspiration." And, and that's because I think his own ideas of a spiritual pathway to long-term sobriety changed and expand

8:52

[00 09:27.996 – 00:09:28.956] on that over the years.

8:54

[00 09:28.956 – 00:09:30.896] Bill was a good meditator.

8:57

[00 09:30.896 – 00:09:35.356] He understood the role of spirit in a person's life.

9:00

[00 09:35.356 – 00:09:36.696] He was open-minded.

9:02

[00 09:36.696 – 00:09:39.396] This was a new experience for him.

9:05

[00 09:39.396 – 00:09:39.836] Mm-hmm.

9:05

[00 09:39.836 – 00:09:41.426] And he, he took to it.

9:08

[00 09:41.426 – 00:09:51.296] It was unusual to be a seeker at that age, but I think that was him, right?

9:14

[00 09:51.296 – 00:10:19.556] So

9:15

[00 10:19.556 – 00:10:26.556] it's wonderful to see you and, and, uh, to be able to, to share this, uh, this experience.

9:21

[00 10:26.556 – 00:10:33.116] Uh, I, uh, I love Alcoholics Anonymous.

9:24

[00 10:33.116 – 00:10:43.536] And, uh, I just, uh, we dropped the film on Mon- or Friday because it was my 46th anniversary

9:31

[00 10:43.536 – 00:10:45.105] in the fellowship.

9:33

[00 10:45.105 – 00:10:50.076] And so I, I, I share a celebration time with, uh, with Carol.

9:37

[00 10:50.076 – 00:11:00.636] And, uh, and, um, and I've seen over the years the way that sometimes

9:43

[00 11:00.636 – 00:11:10.456] some people had gone to weaponize the Big Book and to, uh, to be directive about it.

9:49

[00 11:10.456 – 00:11:14.566] And, uh, I think we all need to go through that type of experience.

9:54

[00 11:14.566 – 00:11:15.506] I know that I did.

9:56

[00 11:15.506 – 00:11:25.516] But I wanted to make sure that, um, that, that the real Bill Wilson was,

10:02

[00 11:25.516 – 00:11:32.396] was presented in a way that, that people could see that he was not directive at all.

10:08

[00 11:32.396 – 00:11:40.536] And, uh, and so that was, uh, uh, that was part of the, the goal of this film.

10:15

[00 11:40.536 – 00:11:46.336] But, but really, uh, and then I'll, I'll, I'll pass it off to, to Kevin.

10:20

[00 11:46.336 – 00:11:47.946] So this is what happens.

10:23

[00 11:47.946 – 00:11:58.076] I, I, I'm, I'm the most fortunate guy you ever met, and one of the things is, is I get to go around and, and talk about this enthusiasm that I have about Bill

10:35

[00 11:58.076 – 00:12:08.176] and Bob's spiritual evolution, different things that they did and, um, and things that they, they tried and, and to, uh, try and contextualize them in a way that people can

10:46

[00 12:08.176 – 00:12:09.636] understand and enjoy them.

10:48

[00 12:09.636 – 00:12:19.656] So, um, part of my research, I'd read in some transcendental meditation journals that

10:53

[00 12:19.656 – 00:12:23.856] Bill Wilson had learned TM, and he practiced TM.

10:57

[00 12:23.856 – 00:12:32.936] And, and I tried to find a way in to be able to find out what documentation there was available.

11:04

[00 12:32.936 – 00:12:34.655] Could never find any.

11:06

[00 12:34.655 – 00:12:40.836] So it was like, okay, if you're a historian, you tell it as an anecdote.

11:11

[00 12:40.836 – 00:12:45.756] You know, I, I, this in fact is an anecdote, but I think it's a really good anecdote.

11:18

[00 12:45.756 – 00:12:55.896] So I, I, I do these PowerPoints, and so I got a picture of Bill Wilson and the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi on a screen,

11:27

[00 12:55.896 – 00:12:58.676] and it's the end of it 'cause it was 1969.

11:30

[00 12:58.676 – 00:12:59.536] It was the end of his life.

11:33

[00 12:59.536 – 00:13:10.176] I, uh, I get down off the podium, and this guy comes, and he says, "My dad taught Bill transcendental

11:40

[00 13:10.176 – 00:13:20.456] meditation." And, uh, I went, "My gosh." This crowd would understand me going,

11:45

[00 13:20.456 – 00:13:24.016] "Manna from heaven." And, uh, I, uh...

11:48

[00 13:24.016 – 00:13:31.216] And then he says, "Do you wanna meet my dad?" Well, yeah.

11:52

[00 13:32.105 – 00:13:35.865] And I'm thinking, you know, "This guy's gotta be decrepit.

11:56

[00 13:35.865 – 00:13:39.145] He's 1969, he's teaching Bill TM.

11:58

[00 13:39.145 – 00:13:45.985] You know, he's gotta be 106." And, uh, turns out, no, he's only in his late 70s.

12:04

[00 13:45.985 – 00:13:51.985] And, and, um, so I call him up and I go and visit him, and I get all excited.

12:11

[00 13:51.985 – 00:14:01.944] And I call our friend, uh, Sally Corbett-Tirco, who's the executive director of the, the, uh, the Stepping Stones Foundation.

12:19

[00 14:01.944 – 00:14:07.445] And, um, I say, "I've got a real piece of history here.

12:23

[00 14:07.445 – 00:14:08.905] I mean, this is...

12:25

[00 14:08.905 – 00:14:11.045] None of this has been in the AA Coda.

12:29

[00 14:11.045 – 00:14:13.125] Nobody has got anything.

12:30

[00 14:13.125 – 00:14:14.285] We've got it now.

12:32

[00 14:14.285 – 00:14:15.745] We've got it now.

12:34

[00 14:15.745 – 00:14:16.145] Let's...

12:34

[00 14:16.145 – 00:14:26.165] Can I, can I bring him up and t- bring my iPad and, and I'll make a little thing for, for the website?" Well,

12:43

[00 14:26.165 – 00:14:30.365] one of the problems with meditating is that one gets inspired.

12:47

[00 14:30.365 – 00:14:41.355] And, uh, I'm, I'm thinking about doing this, and I get so inspired that the voice says, "Call Kevin Hanlon." Who's

12:55

[00 14:41.355 – 00:14:43.105] a man that I've known for a while.

12:58

[00 14:43.105 – 00:14:46.025] So, uh, and I, I called Kevin.

13:01

[00 14:46.025 – 00:14:56.085] So I'd, I'd love it, Kevin, if you tell the gang a little bit about, uh, our association and just the, the, the arc of the prod- project as

13:12

[00 14:56.085 – 00:14:59.305] it's gone along, and we can go back and forth on stuff.

13:16

[00 14:59.305 – 00:15:02.205] Okay.

13:17

[00 15:02.205 – 00:15:03.165] Thank you, Jay.

13:18

[00 15:03.165 – 00:15:11.665] Um, well, uh, so my memory picks up where Jay just left off, which is that I got a very...

13:26

[00 15:11.665 – 00:15:21.825] I, I, I had known Jay because, um, uh, Dan Carracino and I had made a, a full-length documentary about Bill Wilson's life, about, about Bill Wilson

13:35

[00 15:21.825 – 00:15:25.625] that, that sort of covered his, you know, his whole life.

13:40

[00 15:25.625 – 00:15:27.585] Um, tha- thank you, Jay.

13:42

[00 15:27.585 – 00:15:28.245] That's good.

13:43

[00 15:28.245 – 00:15:33.045] Um, and Jay, Jay and Bill C.

13:45

[00 15:33.045 – 00:15:37.045] had been such stalwart champions of ours out in California.

13:49

[00 15:37.045 – 00:15:38.305] They had helped to promote the film.

13:52

[00 15:38.305 – 00:15:40.005] They'd, they'd given us all kinds of help.

13:55

[00 15:40.005 – 00:15:43.685] But I hadn't, I had not spoken to Jay in a very long time.

14:01

[00 15:43.685 – 00:15:46.065] And, uh, I was surprised to get the call.

14:04

[00 15:46.065 – 00:15:56.125] But when he called me and he told me exactly what he just told all of you, and he said, "You know, I, we, Sally and I, we, we really wanna record this because we feel

14:17

[00 15:56.125 – 00:15:57.485] like it's a real piece of history.

14:20

[00 15:57.485 – 00:16:05.265] And I was going to record it on my iPad or my iPhone, but, you know, maybe it's a little more important than that, uh, important than that.

14:30

[00 16:05.265 – 00:16:15.725] And could you get a film crew and come up here and we'll, we'll interview him, uh, that way?" And I, I said, "Sure, of course." Um,

14:40

[00 16:15.725 – 00:16:23.445] but at that point, um, I think everybody, I think everybody involved thought maybe this was a five-minute or a 10- maybe it was a 10-minute film.

14:49

[00 16:23.445 – 00:16:26.045] Um, n- not much more than that.

14:52

[00 16:26.045 – 00:16:32.785] Um, and J- you know, Jay just said he, he was talking about the dangers of meditation for him.

14:59

[00 16:32.785 – 00:16:35.505] Uh, th- there's a, there's a danger...

15:02

[00 16:35.505 – 00:16:43.405] You know, whenever I think about history or being, you know, being interested in history, one, one word that always comes to my mind is context.

15:12

[00 16:43.405 – 00:16:50.605] You know, we- it's very easy to have some new thing pop up, and then we get very fixated on one particular thing at a time.

15:21

[00 16:50.605 – 00:16:58.785] But all of history is made up of, of, of, of all these incredibly complex little pieces that fit together, you know?

15:29

[00 16:58.785 – 00:17:06.805] And when I h- when I heard what Jay had discovered, this man who had taught W- I, I had no idea that Wilson ever learned TM.

15:39

[00 17:06.805 – 00:17:08.085] I mean, I'd never heard it before.

15:42

[00 17:08.085 – 00:17:09.385] I hadn't heard it anecdotally.

15:44

[00 17:09.385 – 00:17:11.385] I hadn't heard it any other way.

15:47

[00 17:11.385 – 00:17:21.445] Um, but really soon, the wheels in my head started thinking, "Well, you know, this, this, this is a bit of an opportunity to

15:55

[00 17:21.445 – 00:17:31.465] look at, to, to, to look at Wilson's attitude towards prayer and meditation, you know, across his whole life." And, um, I, I thought it would,

16:05

[00 17:31.465 – 00:17:33.205] I thought it might be nice to try and fit...

16:09

[00 17:33.205 – 00:17:43.365] You know, this was something he did in the last year of his life, and what, what did that say about him as a person that, you know, in the last year of his life, and his hea- his health was

16:23

[00 17:43.365 – 00:17:43.925] terrible.

16:24

[00 17:43.925 – 00:17:51.865] And certainly by September, I think most people knew that, that, that Bill might likely be dying.

16:30

[00 17:51.865 – 00:17:59.865] Um, and, and yet here, here he was in very tough physical shape, and he w- he was open to this completely new experience.

16:39

[00 17:59.865 – 00:18:03.445] And when I thought about it a little bit, I instantly...

16:43

[00 18:03.445 – 00:18:13.465] You know, I, I've done, I've done a lot of research about Bill, and I have a collection in my head of favorite letters that he wrote, because I think some of his letters

16:55

[00 18:13.465 – 00:18:14.885] just are so amazing.

16:57

[00 18:14.885 – 00:18:16.365] Some of them bring tears to my eyes.

17:00

[00 18:16.365 – 00:18:17.785] Some of them make me laugh out loud.

17:03

[00 18:17.785 – 00:18:20.645] But he, he was a very effective letter writer.

17:07

[00 18:20.645 – 00:18:21.445] And the...

17:08

[00 18:21.445 – 00:18:30.785] When Jay told me the story, the one that popped into my head was the theological pie counter letter, uh, that he wrote to Mel Barger.

17:17

[00 18:30.785 – 00:18:38.925] And I think that letter says so much about Bill Wilson, and I think it says so much about the legacy that he left to AA.

17:27

[00 18:38.925 – 00:18:46.625] In fact, I think it says so much about why AA has, has, has s- survived and thrived all these years.

17:35

[00 18:46.625 – 00:18:51.265] So, you know, it started out as a 5 or 10 minute film.

17:39

[00 18:51.265 – 00:18:57.405] Uh, then, then we did, we did another interview, and then maybe it was gonna be a 15 or 20 minute film.

17:46

[00 18:57.405 – 00:19:06.325] And I remember when we did the second interview with Sally, uh, we were wrapping up at the end of the day and she said to me, "You know, how long do you think this can be?

17:59

[00 19:06.325 – 00:19:16.365] You know, 25 minutes, a half hour?" I thought, "Yeah, that's, you know, can't be any more than that." And then we did one, one more interview and, and I said this to Jay at the time,

18:12

[00 19:16.365 – 00:19:24.165] that, um, a story like this, if we paid attention to the story itself, it would, it would tell us how long it ought to be.

18:22

[00 19:24.165 – 00:19:25.125] It would tell us...

18:24

[00 19:25.125 – 00:19:29.085] You know, I, I wasn't gonna fret too long about the length of the film.

18:29

[00 19:29.085 – 00:19:35.205] I wanted to let the material dictate n- not just the length of the story, but how, how the story got told.

18:37

[00 19:35.205 – 00:19:37.415] So, um, yeah.

18:39

[00 19:37.415 – 00:19:45.604] So that's kind of a long-winded description of how it started out as a, as a very small, contained thing, and I think it expanded into...

18:48

[00 19:45.604 – 00:19:55.725] It, I think it's, it's a, it's a really, um, it's a nice film about Bill and about a, a very important part of the legacy that he left, that he left

19:00

[00 19:55.725 – 00:19:57.465] all 12-step, uh, programs.

19:01

[00 19:57.465 – 00:19:59.225] And I, you know, I forgot to mention this.

19:05

[00 19:59.225 – 00:20:00.985] I always try to remember to say this.

19:08

[00 20:00.985 – 00:20:02.985] I'm not a, I'm not a member of AA.

19:12

[00 20:02.985 – 00:20:04.025] I'm not an alcoholic.

19:13

[00 20:04.025 – 00:20:04.745] I'm not in AA.

19:15

[00 20:04.745 – 00:20:08.765] And I only say that, you know, to be transparent about it.

19:20

[00 20:08.765 – 00:20:15.565] I, I can, I can see that people might assume that I am, and I, I just wanna be clear so that I'm not misleading anybody.

19:29

[00 20:18.454 – 00:20:19.754] So thanks, Kevin.

19:30

[00 20:19.754 – 00:20:25.034] Um, so h- how do things, like, evolve?

19:34

[00 20:25.034 – 00:20:31.624] So one of the things was is that, um, we've got all this ...

19:38

[00 20:31.624 – 00:20:36.464] We're, we're going up to the second time to, to interview at, at Stepping Stones.

19:44

[00 20:36.464 – 00:20:39.954] So now we know we've got, you know, we've got, we've got quite a project.

19:50

[00 20:39.954 – 00:20:50.034] And then Sally Corbett Turco, our dear friend, um, went out to, uh, Akron to, um,

19:56

[00 20:50.034 – 00:20:51.494] Founders' Day.

19:57

[00 20:51.494 – 00:21:01.694] And she's at Founders' Day, and she was staying with friends, and she came back, and one of the friends had, uh, come down with the bug.

20:06

[00 21:01.694 – 00:21:06.834] And, uh, now we've got all this time and treasure.

20:10

[00 21:06.834 – 00:21:12.094] I mean, this thing went to, from, you know, we thought, I thought it was maybe gonna spend $7,000.

20:17

[00 21:12.094 – 00:21:16.614] Now what I've been fortunate enough to do is bet the house on it.

20:22

[00 21:16.614 – 00:21:19.534] I understand what the bet is now.

20:25

[00 21:19.534 – 00:21:27.354] And, uh, uh, and so I'm talking, uh, and are we gonna have to fold up?

20:31

[00 21:27.354 – 00:21:28.424] Kevin and I are talking.

20:33

[00 21:28.424 – 00:21:31.074] We got, we got all these crew people.

20:36

[00 21:31.074 – 00:21:32.474] Uh, we got ...

20:38

[00 21:32.474 – 00:21:37.054] Are we gonna have to shut down the, the production and come back and do it all again?

20:44

[00 21:37.054 – 00:21:43.774] And we're trying to think, well, what can we do if we've got these people contracted and everything?

20:51

[00 21:43.774 – 00:21:48.314] Well, my closest colleague is William Shaber.

20:54

[00 21:48.314 – 00:21:58.614] So I called Bill up and I say, "Look, if Sally can't go, maybe you could take her place." And, uh, fortunately for everybody

21:02

[00 21:58.614 – 00:22:01.974] concerned, Sally didn't get the ...

21:05

[00 22:01.974 – 00:22:04.734] or she'd had the bug, and so she didn't pick it up again.

21:09

[00 22:04.734 – 00:22:13.974] Shaber was busy, and so we, we do this incredible, um, shoot at Stepping Stones.

21:15

[00 22:13.974 – 00:22:17.214] I mean, folks, this, this is the Wit's End shoot.

21:19

[00 22:17.214 – 00:22:23.854] And, uh, um, I've been to Wit's End probably a dozen times.

21:23

[00 22:23.854 – 00:22:33.914] I've never seen it shine like it's able to in the film because what Kevin and the, uh, um, the director of p- photography

21:32

[00 22:33.914 – 00:22:40.814] were able to do was they actually took down the coverings that are always on the windows.

21:38

[00 22:40.814 – 00:22:50.854] Um, we were able to light it in ways that you could really see the richness and the, and the beauty of the environment that, that, that Wilson's in

21:49

[00 22:50.854 – 00:22:53.604] this place, that they, that he called The Shack.

21:52

[00 22:53.604 – 00:22:58.214] We all call it Wit's End, um, 'cause somebody laid that o- on it.

21:58

[00 22:58.214 – 00:23:08.234] And, uh, somebody said that that, that, uh, studio of his was actually bought from Sears and

22:04

[00 23:08.234 – 00:23:08.714] Roebuck.

22:05

[00 23:08.714 – 00:23:16.654] They, they sold a, they sold a kit that you'd go and, and, and could put everything together and build your own little thing, and that's what they did.

22:15

[00 23:16.654 – 00:23:18.754] They built this, this writing studio.

22:18

[00 23:18.754 – 00:23:28.754] But the, to be able to be in there and to see the environment where Bill wrote the 12 and 12, where he wrote the 12 Concepts of

22:27

[00 23:28.754 – 00:23:33.014] World Service, where he wrote all these incredible letters that we enjoy so much.

22:32

[00 23:33.014 – 00:23:43.054] And, uh, you know, Kevin mentioned the Barger letter and, and, uh, we, uh, we had the fortune

22:39

[00 23:43.054 – 00:23:49.654] to have Mel come out and talk at the, uh, I think it was the third symposium on, uh, A Street.

22:46

[00 23:49.654 – 00:23:52.674] And, and, uh, just a, just a wonderful guy.

22:50

[00 23:52.674 – 00:24:02.674] And I, in fact, I was talking to Michelle Mirza the, today at the general service office, and reminded her that, um, when we were

22:59

[00 24:02.674 – 00:24:06.954] kicking it with Mel, I asked him if he had the letter that he'd written Bill.

23:05

[00 24:06.954 – 00:24:08.574] And he said, "No.

23:07

[00 24:08.574 – 00:24:17.814] You know, I wrote it and I sent it off, but I, I didn't do a carbon copy." And Michelle was able to find it, and we were able to send it back, back to Mel.

23:20

[00 24:17.814 – 00:24:28.194] And, and both Sally and Kevin and I all agree that this is one of the great communications that Bill ever wrote,

23:28

[00 24:28.194 – 00:24:33.494] or at least it, it, it exposes him perfectly because it's short and it's, it's sweet.

23:34

[00 24:33.494 – 00:24:37.574] But it's the spine that runs through the, through the film.

23:38

[00 24:37.574 – 00:24:42.014] And, uh, so it's a, it's a, it's, it's a great deal of fun.

23:43

[00 24:42.014 – 00:24:43.014] So that's ...

23:44

[00 24:43.014 – 00:24:45.214] So then we get, then we, we gotta go back.

23:48

[00 24:45.214 – 00:24:54.974] Now we got the idea of sh- having Shaber, and why don't you, why don't you talk about what it was that we went through on, on that one, in Calvary and the like.

24:00

[00 24:54.974 – 00:24:57.234] Oh, yeah.

24:01

[00 24:57.234 – 00:24:59.014] Well, uh, I'd forgotten about that.

24:04

[00 24:59.014 – 00:25:06.514] So Jay, Jay had spoken to the rector of Calvary Church, uh, on Park Avenue South in New York, which is ...

24:11

[00 25:06.514 – 00:25:09.354] And I completely understood why, for good reason.

24:14

[00 25:09.354 – 00:25:13.874] The, uh, that's the church where the Oxford Group meetings were held that Bill Wilson first went to.

24:21

[00 25:13.874 – 00:25:20.694] It's the church where Sam Shoemaker was the rector, and it wa- it was the headquarters of the Oxford Group in the United States.

24:30

[00 25:20.694 – 00:25:30.694] So i- in a, in a very palpable way it's the, uh, y- you know, it's the, it's the, the very place where AA got started.

24:39

[00 25:30.694 – 00:25:35.174] Um, and he had spoken to the rector, and the rector was very ...

24:44

[00 25:35.174 – 00:25:43.954] And Jay thought it would be great to do an interview there, and I thought, "Yeah, that'd be great." And we got it all set up, and, um, got, picked a day, hired the crew.

24:57

[00 25:43.954 – 00:25:45.694] Uh, everything was set.

24:59

[00 25:45.694 – 00:25:54.014] And when, when you, when you start doing that stuff things begin to lock in place because it's hard, it's hard to scramble around and get crew members, and everybody's busy.

25:10

[00 25:54.014 – 00:25:57.634] So we had a date, and I, I went down to scout the location.

25:15

[00 25:57.634 – 00:26:03.294] And, uh, the, the rector is a wonderful, dear person, but he forgot to mention a few things.

25:22

[00 26:03.294 – 00:26:10.574] One was that there was virtually no air conditioning in the church or in any of the places we could have shot, and it was the middle of summer.

25:32

[00 26:10.574 – 00:26:12.173] It was July.

25:34

[00 26:12.173 – 00:26:22.514] And in New York City in July it is hot and humid, and if you're inside in a place like a closed-off church, uh, it's more than a sweat lodge in there.

25:45

[00 26:22.514 – 00:26:30.234] And then the second thing was that they were doing a major renovation right outside the wall of the church where it w- it was impossible.

25:55

[00 26:30.234 – 00:26:35.294] And I went down there and I thought, "Jay and Bill Shaber will faint.

26:00

[00 26:35.294 – 00:26:45.574] The, the crew may, may faint, and nobody will be able to hear anything that gets recorded here." Um, so I, I had, I had a moment of panic.

26:10

[00 26:45.574 – 00:26:55.534] Um, and then I, I, I remembered a, a church that's not too far from where I live, and I just, I just got on the subway and I went up there, and I knocked on the door.

26:24

[00 26:55.534 – 00:27:03.294] And, uh, the very nice woman there said that they, you know, they've had stuff shot there and we could use the place, and we, we worked all that out.

26:35

[00 27:03.294 – 00:27:03.984] And, um-

26:36

[00 27:06.063 – 00:27:06.343] Yeah.

26:37

[00 27:06.343 – 00:27:13.163] So, um, I, I didn't necessarily want the background for it to be so churchy, I guess if you could say that.

26:45

[00 27:13.163 – 00:27:16.203] But I- it was also, it was a great location.

26:48

[00 27:16.203 – 00:27:16.703] It was...

26:49

[00 27:16.703 – 00:27:20.262] They had just renovated the AC system, so it was...

26:53

[00 27:20.262 – 00:27:26.403] And, you know, looking for locations to shoot interviews in New York City is very challenging.

26:59

[00 27:26.403 – 00:27:29.123] I mean, really challenging.

27:01

[00 27:29.123 – 00:27:32.463] And in this place, the air conditioning was whisper quiet.

27:05

[00 27:32.463 – 00:27:35.343] You couldn't hear it at all, and it was cool and dry.

27:09

[00 27:35.343 – 00:27:36.263] It was...

27:10

[00 27:36.263 – 00:27:41.183] Yeah, it just was one of those things that looked like a disaster and turned out to be a real blessing.

27:18

[00 27:41.183 – 00:27:44.143] It was a, it was a great, it was a great location to shoot that interview in.

27:24

[00 27:44.143 – 00:27:54.043] And then, you know, uh, could you talk a little bit about what it's like interviewing Schaber?

27:31

[00 27:54.043 – 00:27:57.843] What it's like to interview Bill Schaber?

27:34

[00 27:57.843 – 00:27:58.563] Yeah.

27:34

[00 27:58.563 – 00:27:59.483] Is that what you said?

27:36

[00 27:59.483 – 00:28:03.783] Well, Schaber and I because it's so m- we, we, we had so many- Yeah.

27:42

[00 28:03.783 – 00:28:04.123] W- yeah.

27:43

[00 28:04.123 – 00:28:14.183] Well, th- so for me, this, th- once the idea of bringing Bill in for an interview came along, uh, that was when the film opened up for me because, um,

27:54

[00 28:14.183 – 00:28:22.143] it gave us an opportunity, it, it ga- it gave us an opportunity, I think, to go a little bit deeper.

28:02

[00 28:22.143 – 00:28:29.523] 'Cause I, I, I was able to get Jay and Bill to, to, to, you know, get in a conversation and bounce back and forth some things.

28:12

[00 28:29.523 – 00:28:37.783] Um, the, the biggest one for me that whole day was to get them talking about Bill Wilson's white light experience.

28:19

[00 28:37.783 – 00:28:47.863] And I'm, I'll, I'll just, I'll say a few personal things here for me because, um, you know, I, I've al- I, when I first started

28:29

[00 28:47.863 – 00:28:53.443] doing research about this and I read about that white light experience, it w- you know, to say the least, it was puzzling to me.

28:38

[00 28:53.443 – 00:28:55.643] I didn't know anything about that kind of thing.

28:41

[00 28:55.643 – 00:29:01.103] Um, in some ways I didn't, I didn't know what to make of it or how to understand it.

28:48

[00 29:01.103 – 00:29:11.143] And then as time went on, and I'd been at this a while, I als- I, this is just me personally, but I also came to, to feel that in some ways it had become

29:01

[00 29:11.143 – 00:29:19.963] a cliche because, um, when you use a certain phrase enough, y- you, you, it's just human nature.

29:08

[00 29:19.963 – 00:29:25.243] I think people begin to s- to, they don't, they're not thinking really what m- what might lie behind it.

29:15

[00 29:25.243 – 00:29:27.833] You know, everybody knows Bill Wilson had a white light experience.

29:19

[00 29:27.833 – 00:29:35.463] So I said to them, I said, "It's a cliche, so can you tell me what, like, what is it really?

29:27

[00 29:35.463 – 00:29:39.663] You know, don't, if, if we, if we don't call it a white light experience, then what would you say about it?

29:35

[00 29:39.663 – 00:29:40.443] What would you call it?

29:37

[00 29:40.443 – 00:29:46.203] How would you describe it?" And I, and I, I just, I was really happy with how the conversation went about that.

29:45

[00 29:46.203 – 00:29:51.553] And then, you know, both Bill and Jay have been meditating for many, many years.

29:51

[00 29:51.553 – 00:30:01.243] Bill, Bill tells a story about how he had a maybe a slight bit of disdain for the idea of meditating, at least the way it was being done in California.

30:02

[00 30:01.243 – 00:30:03.863] Maybe disdain is too strong a word, but maybe not.

30:06

[00 30:03.863 – 00:30:05.463] No, it's too soft.

30:07

[00 30:05.463 – 00:30:06.583] It's too soft.

30:09

[00 30:06.583 – 00:30:07.803] I'm being diplomatic.

30:10

[00 30:07.803 – 00:30:17.382] So, um, I, I think, I think that was a, I think that was a, a, that was, that was some essential, um, material for the film.

30:20

[00 30:17.382 – 00:30:27.382] And the reason I say that is, when you make a film, like a documentary film, you need s- you need something

30:28

[00 30:27.383 – 00:30:27.903] personal.

30:29

[00 30:27.903 – 00:30:33.263] You know, you need something beyo- it, it, you don't just want a stream of facts coming at people.

30:36

[00 30:33.263 – 00:30:43.383] And when Jay and Bill were talking about their, their own individual meditation practices and what, what lay behind that, you know, there's a little thing in the trailer where

30:47

[00 30:43.383 – 00:30:53.683] Schaber, he's quoting, he's quoting, um, Ernie Kurtz, but saying, you know, "We all have a hole inside of us." I mean, that's, that's

30:55

[00 30:53.683 – 00:30:55.843] been true long before AA existed.

30:58

[00 30:55.843 – 00:31:06.223] And the, the hole that is inside of us gets addressed in AA in an incredible way, but people have been meditating for thousands of years and, and there's

31:08

[00 31:06.223 – 00:31:07.083] a reason why.

31:10

[00 31:07.083 – 00:31:17.123] And so these two guys started talking about, a little bit more about what was behind and underneath some of this stuff that maybe, I don't know, I just

31:20

[00 31:17.123 – 00:31:25.823] think maybe people hear words like white light or they hear meditation, and maybe either it goes in one ear and out the other, or just, they just think, "Why?

31:31

[00 31:25.823 – 00:31:35.983] I, what does that even mean?" And so it was very nice to have two people who'd been doing this a long time engage in a conversation about it and, and, and talk about some personal,

31:44

[00 31:35.983 – 00:31:37.783] personal experience and aspects of it.

31:46

[00 31:37.783 – 00:31:48.303] So Kevin, one of the things that, that, that I want everybody to know is, is that I

31:53

[00 31:48.303 – 00:31:50.223] came with this story.

31:55

[00 31:50.223 – 00:31:53.363] I came with these experiences.

31:57

[00 31:53.363 – 00:31:57.783] I had the inspirations along the line to do one thing or another.

32:02

[00 31:57.783 – 00:32:08.243] You know, uh, uh, Sally Korbitturko, uh, would, would try and steer me one way or another, and, and, uh, and I'm

32:10

[00 32:08.243 – 00:32:13.423] really glad that, that I, that I, um, that I paid attention to what she was saying.

32:16

[00 32:13.423 – 00:32:19.503] But, um, could you talk a little bit about, um, the art?

32:21

[00 32:19.503 – 00:32:25.843] 'Cause I don't think folks, uh, uh, they may not appreciate what a director and an editor does.

32:27

[00 32:25.843 – 00:32:36.423] And, and I just want everyone here to know how incredibly, uh, important Kevin's, uh, insights

32:33

[00 32:36.423 – 00:32:38.863] to the, to this, uh, have been.

32:36

[00 32:38.863 – 00:32:43.793] So I, I know you don't like talking about yourself, so could you just talk about- Don't.

32:42

[00 32:43.793 – 00:32:44.743] ...

32:43

[00 32:44.743 – 00:32:44.773] the art.

32:44

[00 32:44.773 – 00:32:45.433] Talk about the art.

32:46

[00 32:45.433 – 00:32:45.633] What's that?

32:47

[00 32:45.633 – 00:32:45.903] Okay.

32:47

[00 32:45.903 – 00:32:47.923] Okay.

32:48

[00 32:47.923 – 00:32:49.963] Well, yeah, I can talk about that for a minute.

32:52

[00 32:49.963 – 00:32:55.943] Um, you know, I, when we started making, I'd, I'd never made a film before.

32:58

[00 32:55.943 – 00:33:03.763] And when Dan Carracino approached me and we decided to make the film, you know, it so- it, it sounds very glamorous and all.

33:06

[00 33:03.763 – 00:33:13.983] You know, I, I remember when people would find out I was the director, you know, "Oh, wow, you..." A- and what I wanted to tell people was, "Well, you don't understand.

33:18

[00 33:13.983 – 00:33:15.863] What it really means is I'm a moving man.

33:21

[00 33:15.863 – 00:33:25.963] I'm in the moving business." Because all I did in the beginning for a long time was hire crews and moving trucks and just, uh, you know, my whole life was bogged down with equipment and whe- you know,

33:35

[00 33:25.963 – 00:33:26.983] finding locations.

33:36

[00 33:26.983 – 00:33:30.303] And there's, there's a lot to it that's not very glamorous at all.

33:41

[00 33:30.303 – 00:33:39.283] Um, the, the analogy I have in my own mind is that, you know, if you, if you make a, if you make a film, you're making something.

33:51

[00 33:39.283 – 00:33:43.203] And sometimes I used to think to myself, it's like a, it's like you're building a building.

33:58

[00 33:43.203 – 00:33:49.963] And when you're doing the directing part of it and the production part of it, it's sorta like you're going to the, to the lum-

34:07

[00 33:50.147 – 00:33:51.927] yard and the plumbing supplies.

34:09

[00 33:51.927 – 00:33:55.027] You're getting, you, you're gathering the material that you need.

34:13

[00 33:55.027 – 00:33:58.867] Um, and it's really important.

34:15

[00 33:58.867 – 00:34:09.007] And if you don't, if you don't get the right material in the beginning when you're doing all that, um, you know, you may, you may not have a film that's worth putting together.

34:27

[00 34:09.007 – 00:34:17.467] But, um, in my experience or my mind, make no mistake about it, a f- a film gets made in the editing room.

34:35

[00 34:17.467 – 00:34:19.787] A fil- a film gets made in the editing.

34:39

[00 34:19.787 – 00:34:23.346] It, ed- the editing is, is just about everything.

34:42

[00 34:23.346 – 00:34:30.227] And, um, you know, you could give 10 different editors the exact same material, and you will get 10 different films.

34:49

[00 34:30.227 – 00:34:33.407] I mean, it's just, uh, it's just the way it is.

34:54

[00 34:33.407 – 00:34:36.727] So when it, you know, when it came to this, it was no different than anything else.

35:00

[00 34:36.727 – 00:34:40.127] Um, I look, I look at it, it's a puzzle.

35:04

[00 34:40.127 – 00:34:41.787] You know, you, you get all this material.

35:07

[00 34:41.787 – 00:34:47.047] It's the opposite of a, of a feature film where you have a script that's been written out ahead of time.

35:15

[00 34:47.047 – 00:34:57.587] The, i- this process is you, you know, it's like you get a bunch of actors and information and roles and everything else, and now, now, now you have to put something together.

35:27

[00 34:57.587 – 00:35:00.467] You know, there's no architect that drew the plan up ahead of time.

35:31

[00 35:00.467 – 00:35:05.627] So, um, there's a lot of tedium to it.

35:35

[00 35:05.627 – 00:35:09.727] You know, I, I ha- I had to transcribe all the interviews and just go all over them and all over them.

35:43

[00 35:09.727 – 00:35:16.227] And you, and you, and you're looking for what, you know, what are the really, um, what are the salient points of information?

35:51

[00 35:16.227 – 00:35:19.867] What are, what are the points that seem mo- where, where are people most moving?

35:57

[00 35:19.867 – 00:35:23.687] What what comes first?

35:59

[00 35:23.687 – 00:35:24.467] What comes second?

36:00

[00 35:24.467 – 00:35:25.187] Where do you start?

36:02

[00 35:25.187 – 00:35:25.907] Where do you end?

36:04

[00 35:25.907 – 00:35:27.047] I mean, all of that.

36:06

[00 35:27.047 – 00:35:28.047] It just, um...

36:07

[00 35:28.047 – 00:35:33.167] So for me, I, I just have to sit, I just have to sit with the material.

36:13

[00 35:33.167 – 00:35:37.887] I have to sit with this massive amount of material and just keep going through it and going through it and sorting.

36:21

[00 35:37.887 – 00:35:48.667] And, and after a while, it, s- similar to what I said a minute ago, but I f- I feel like if you're really paying attention, the material will sort of tell you, you know,

36:34

[00 35:48.667 – 00:35:50.167] this, this needs to go here.

36:37

[00 35:50.167 – 00:35:53.627] Th- this doesn't make any sense if you don't put this other thing in, in front of it.

36:43

[00 35:53.627 – 00:36:01.527] And, you know, it just, just takes, just takes time to keep moving that stuff around and, and finding where it fits, it fits together best.

36:53

[00 36:01.527 – 00:36:06.167] And, um, uh, you know, I'm, I'm always very challenged by music.

36:57

[00 36:06.167 – 00:36:13.567] I, I, I think music's really important, but it's not, the, the, the, the story and the stuff has to be in place.

37:06

[00 36:13.567 – 00:36:15.247] The music can't save the story.

37:08

[00 36:15.247 – 00:36:19.007] But, uh, you know, you need to get the music right to set the tone.

37:14

[00 36:19.007 – 00:36:24.907] So all those things are just stuff you work through is, is been my experience.

37:19

[00 36:24.907 – 00:36:33.207] And w- and while I'm here, there's a, there's a woman sitting next to Jay, Janine, who I, I- Let's, let's go ahead and bring, we're gonna bring her in so that's perfect.

37:31

[00 36:33.207 – 00:36:40.627] Why don't you talk about her contri- a little bit about her, set her up so she can talk about her, her contribution and all the- Yeah.

37:41

[00 36:40.627 – 00:36:42.607] So Jay was telling you about post-production.

37:44

[00 36:42.607 – 00:36:47.717] Well, so I haven't counted, but if you watch the film, somebody can do this.

37:49

[00 36:47.717 – 00:36:54.007] I'm, I'm too tired and I'm not gonna do it, but there's, there's a certain number of photographs in the film, and it's a hi- it's a lot.

37:59

[00 36:54.007 – 00:36:56.647] It's, it's, you know, more than 10.

38:02

[00 36:56.647 – 00:37:00.007] And, you know, it's, I'm sure it's less than 500, but it's a lot.

38:07

[00 37:00.007 – 00:37:07.987] And all of those photographs when you get them, they're, they're archival, and they're, they're dirty.

38:13

[00 37:07.987 – 00:37:11.897] They're, they've got, they've got either scratches or bits of dust that got on them.

38:18

[00 37:11.897 – 00:37:15.527] They, you know, people in New York would say they have a lot of schmutz on them.

38:25

[00 37:15.527 – 00:37:17.987] They're, they're, they, they need to be cleaned.

38:28

[00 37:17.987 – 00:37:23.667] And all of that went to Janine, and she did a remarkably, a just a wonderful job.

38:34

[00 37:23.667 – 00:37:33.967] And I, I'm not gonna do this, but it'd be an interesting exercise if I took a cut of the film where none of the, none of the photos had been, had been treated or restored, and then

38:48

[00 37:33.967 – 00:37:36.567] showed it to people where they had been.

38:51

[00 37:36.567 – 00:37:40.527] And, and, and you, you would, you would notice, the difference would jump out at you.

38:57

[00 37:40.527 – 00:37:46.307] Um, so without, without Janine's contribution, the film would be much, much poorer.

39:02

[00 37:46.307 – 00:37:54.887] It would n- it would, it would be much less enjoyable to, to look at the film, to sit and look at the film if it were not for, for, you know, all the...

39:14

[00 37:54.887 – 00:37:57.547] And she did a lot of work 'cause there were a lot of photos.

39:19

[00 37:57.547 – 00:38:00.847] So I'm, I'm, uh, I'm extremely grateful to her.

39:23

[00 38:00.847 – 00:38:02.377] Thank you so much.

39:24

[00 38:02.377 – 00:38:09.637] I, I, I got, I got to the point where I felt like I was, I was sending digital dump trucks to her doorstep and just- Oh ...

39:34

[00 38:09.637 – 00:38:12.147] dumping out all these, uh, photos and negatives.

39:37

[00 38:12.147 – 00:38:13.177] And, uh- Oh, no ...

39:39

[00 38:13.177 – 00:38:18.087] I, yeah, I kept apologizing, but, you know, the more I worked, the more photos there were, so.

39:46

[00 38:18.087 – 00:38:25.487] It was, it was a wonderful, wonderful, um, thing to be able to do to contribute to the film.

39:53

[00 38:25.487 – 00:38:35.627] And, um, you know, I noticed that when I first saw some of the images in the film that, as you said, there were a lot of dust and scratches and lots of things going

40:05

[00 38:35.627 – 00:38:40.167] across faces, you know, folds, tears, and things like that.

40:09

[00 38:40.167 – 00:38:42.247] And I have an art background.

40:12

[00 38:42.247 – 00:38:45.787] Uh, where I worked as a graphic artist my career.

40:16

[00 38:45.787 – 00:38:54.607] And I just couldn't help but wanna like, you know, let's fix that little thing there and, you know, kinda clean that up.

40:24

[00 38:54.607 – 00:38:54.637] Okay.

40:25

[00 38:54.637 – 00:39:02.147] And so I started with a few, and I didn't want to, um, alter them very much because they're archival and all of that.

40:33

[00 39:02.147 – 00:39:07.627] But, uh, uh, and, and so, uh, I just kept doing more and more pictures.

40:39

[00 39:07.627 – 00:39:17.907] And, you know, it was, um, it was a really incredible experience because I'm up close and personal with pictures of Bill Wilson and Lois.

40:48

[00 39:17.907 – 00:39:27.807] And, you know, when you spend that amount of time, I, I'm sure Kevin can also say that you really feel that you get to know them.

40:58

[00 39:27.807 – 00:39:28.547] You know?

40:59

[00 39:28.547 – 00:39:31.777] You just, you see their eyes, the look in their eyes.

41:03

[00 39:31.777 – 00:39:33.627] And I'm an empathic person.

41:05

[00 39:33.627 – 00:39:44.467] And, you know, and just the depth and the, the, oh my gosh, you know, just it was such an honor to, to be that up close and personal with these images.

41:17

[00 39:44.467 – 00:39:47.067] And I feel like they're like part of my family.

41:21

[00 39:47.067 – 00:39:47.447] You know?

41:22

[00 39:47.447 – 00:39:48.827] Like they're my grandparents.

41:23

[00 39:48.827 – 00:39:56.547] And one of the things that was really, uh, endearing is a lot of, you know, the clothes.

41:30

[00 39:56.547 – 00:39:58.787] You know, Lois made most of her clothes.

41:33

[00 39:58.787 – 00:40:05.127] And, um, the clothes that they were wearing, sometimes I would see, you know, repairs, you know, mending.

41:40

[00 40:05.127 – 00:40:05.637] Mm-hmm.

41:41

[00 40:05.637 – 00:40:10.687] And there was a s- a sweater that, uh, had a, a hole in it that Bill was wearing.

41:48

[00 40:10.687 – 00:40:17.767] And, um, it just, you know, they were not about the material, materialistic.

41:52

[00 40:17.767 – 00:40:19.907] It was about what they were doing.

41:55

[00 40:19.907 – 00:40:25.667] And, you know, just a beautiful legacy that they left.

41:59

[00 40:25.667 – 00:40:29.007] And it was such an honor to work on the, all those images.

42:04

[00 40:29.007 – 00:40:33.487] And, uh, I just kept, you know, yeah, bring them on, you know?

42:09

[00 40:33.487 – 00:40:35.727] And, uh, you know, so-

42:11

[00 40:36.096 – 00:40:36.616] It's really...

42:12

[00 40:36.616 – 00:40:45.196] Thank you so much, Kevin, for allowing me to participate that way, and I'm gl- I'm so happy that, you know, it made...

42:20

[00 40:45.196 – 00:40:51.136] I think, you know, y- you're not so distracted by the, the dust and the scratches.

42:26

[00 40:51.136 – 00:40:57.516] You can really just see the pictures of, of the people a little more clearly and, and, uh, yeah.

42:33

[00 40:57.516 – 00:40:58.326] So thank you.

42:35

[00 40:58.326 – 00:41:00.236] Well, yeah, and I, I just wanna add to that.

42:39

[00 41:00.236 – 00:41:03.496] You know, I, I, I had to, I have to color...

42:43

[00 41:03.496 – 00:41:06.136] I mean, the, the film's not quite finished from this point of view.

42:48

[00 41:06.136 – 00:41:09.836] I mean, I still have more color correcting to do, which I'll finish in the next couple days.

42:54

[00 41:09.836 – 00:41:20.126] But, um, the, the difference between trying to color correct photos that are, that are, you know, th- that are either dirty or have, have mars or creases

43:04

[00 41:20.126 – 00:41:30.276] on them, uh, once you clean them up, the, there's a crispness that, that you can get out of a photo that's been, that's

43:13

[00 41:30.276 – 00:41:31.156] been restored.

43:14

[00 41:31.156 – 00:41:38.016] And that, that crispness and that depth, um, it's subliminal in a way, but it adds up.

43:21

[00 41:38.016 – 00:41:42.296] And I, I really, I really feel, you know, that it ha- it has an impact.

43:27

[00 41:42.296 – 00:41:45.056] Um, some people aren't as visually...

43:29

[00 41:45.056 – 00:41:48.366] I'm, I'm vi- I'm very visually sensitive, so I notice stuff like that.

43:34

[00 41:48.366 – 00:41:49.836] And I know some people wouldn't.

43:36

[00 41:49.836 – 00:41:59.676] And yet, I think even for people that wouldn't necessarily notice it on their own, um, there's a big difference if it's not done as compared to when it is done.

43:48

[00 41:59.676 – 00:42:01.516] And, um- Yeah ...

43:49

[00 42:01.516 – 00:42:04.056] and you were so great because I w- I would feel guilty.

43:53

[00 42:04.056 – 00:42:11.236] I had another 15 photos all of a sudden, and every, every time I'd dump them on your doorstep, you just said, "Give me a day or two," and they'd come right back.

44:05

[00 42:11.236 – 00:42:14.896] So, uh, I'm, I'm the one thanking you, Ginny.

44:09

[00 42:14.896 – 00:42:15.976] Oh, you're welcome.

44:10

[00 42:15.976 – 00:42:16.636] Thank you.

44:11

[00 42:16.636 – 00:42:24.696] So another, a- another fun thing that I really want you folks to know out there- Mm ...

44:17

[00 42:24.696 – 00:42:34.836] is that we're talking about maybe at least, I'd say, I don't, I don't think I'm, I'm, I'm over the top on this, that there's le-

44:27

[00 42:34.836 – 00:42:40.316] at least a couple hundred images of Bill Wilson that people have never seen.

44:32

[00 42:40.316 – 00:42:44.876] 150.

44:32

[00 42:44.876 – 00:42:46.936] I don't- You know?

44:34

[00 42:46.936 – 00:42:51.986] But it's- I, I, I don't, I don't know if it's that high, but there are, but there are, but there definitely are, there are photos.

44:43

[00 42:51.986 – 00:42:54.996] Well, I've seen this, this thing a lot, and there are...

44:48

[00 42:54.996 – 00:43:05.076] A lot of people aren't privileged to have seen some of the sources like your film or some of the other sources that,

44:56

[00 43:05.076 – 00:43:06.156] that were, you know.

44:58

[00 43:06.156 – 00:43:11.156] I mean, this is, what we've been able to do, my friends, is we've been able to...

45:04

[00 43:11.156 – 00:43:21.156] See, this is why it's a joint venture with the Stepping Stones Foundation, is they're able to share their archive widely in a

45:13

[00 43:21.156 – 00:43:26.476] way that, that hasn't been available to them, uh, before.

45:16

[00 43:26.476 – 00:43:35.556] And, and so for me, I get, like those pictures that you saw in the trailer of Bill old.

45:23

[00 43:35.556 – 00:43:37.476] You know, we don't see that.

45:26

[00 43:37.476 – 00:43:44.856] You, you may have read in Cheever's book about how sick he was and all that stuff, and, and, and in Pass It On how sick he is.

45:36

[00 43:44.856 – 00:43:54.796] But once you see his physical being, and, you know, you talked, Kevin, about the, the red sweater pictures.

45:43

[00 43:54.796 – 00:43:58.596] You know, I mean, he's, he's really impaired.

45:46

[00 43:58.596 – 00:44:09.016] And one of the things that, that I didn't, it never came to heart until in, in researching this thing, we, uh, we got to

45:55

[00 44:09.016 – 00:44:14.456] really, I got to read all of Lois's diary of, of the last three years of his life.

46:02

[00 44:14.456 – 00:44:20.096] And, um, he was hallucinating from lack of oxygen for the last year and a half.

46:08

[00 44:20.096 – 00:44:20.576] Mm.

46:08

[00 44:20.576 – 00:44:30.616] The, the, the, you know, oxygen bottles now are like plastic water bottles

46:13

[00 44:30.616 – 00:44:37.536] compared to what it was that they were carrying around in those days to the house to try and get it in there during the winter.

46:23

[00 44:37.536 – 00:44:47.536] You know, I mean, it's, it's just, it, it's amazing the amount of, uh, courage it

46:29

[00 44:47.536 – 00:44:57.556] took Lois to keep Bill alive and the amount of courage that Wilson had to try and keep going just one more day to see

46:38

[00 44:57.556 – 00:44:58.736] how he could be helpful.

46:40

[00 44:58.736 – 00:45:01.476] And- Yeah, if I, if I, I- Please ...

46:43

[00 45:01.476 – 00:45:05.896] you just, I don't mean to interrupt you, but I, I, I've, I, I- Please, you, you're here to interrupt me.

46:51

[00 45:05.896 – 00:45:06.536] Go ahead Okay.

46:52

[00 45:06.536 – 00:45:09.516] All right.

46:53

[00 45:09.516 – 00:45:19.256] I, um, I know it's just a personal thing, but I, I remember when I was doing the research for the film that we made, um, I was very moved, a little surprised and very moved.

47:06

[00 45:19.256 – 00:45:27.816] But the, you know, the, the big book eventually made Lois Wilson fairly wealthy, but that was years after Bill died.

47:14

[00 45:27.816 – 00:45:32.216] And when he was sick in that last year of his life, they were very worried about money.

47:21

[00 45:32.216 – 00:45:42.316] Um, you know, they were, they, they were wondering whether they had enough money to pay for the doctor's bills and whether they had enough money to pay for the rou- round-the-clock

47:32

[00 45:42.316 – 00:45:45.696] nursing that his emphysema eventually called for.

47:35

[00 45:45.696 – 00:45:52.896] And it, it, it, it was just another way that they became very human to me.

47:41

[00 45:52.896 – 00:45:56.316] Um, you know, this was a big theme of the film that I worked on before.

47:47

[00 45:56.316 – 00:46:03.776] But, you know, Wilson, Wilson became an icon, and he didn't want to be, and he did everything he could to stop that from happening.

47:56

[00 46:03.776 – 00:46:07.016] And human nature was too much for him to stop that.

48:00

[00 46:07.016 – 00:46:12.976] But, you know, that last year of his life, he, he wasn't an icon, and Lois wa- wasn't an icon.

48:07

[00 46:12.976 – 00:46:20.576] They were, they were a couple in the later years of their life dealing with, um, with a real illness, and it was, um, yeah.

48:17

[00 46:20.576 – 00:46:30.636] I j- I, I j- I just remember thinking, "Wow, after, after all of this." And they, they, they were counting their pennies and very worried about whether they had the financial resources to take care of things

48:30

[00 46:30.636 – 00:46:31.876] at the end there.

48:32

[00 46:31.876 – 00:46:43.336] And along those lines, one of the things that, that, uh, Kevin did was, uh, um, I

48:38

[00 46:43.336 – 00:46:44.276] don't know how we got...

48:40

[00 46:44.276 – 00:46:47.836] The montage wasn't in there until very late in the film.

48:45

[00 46:47.836 – 00:46:49.296] That, I call it this montage.

48:47

[00 46:49.296 – 00:46:59.736] There's this little part where Sally's talking about, Sally Corbett Turco's talking about, uh, Stepping Stones, and we've got maybe 20 images

48:55

[00 46:59.736 – 00:47:10.156] from the '40s of, uh, and '50s of, of Stepping Stones that, that w- that you put together with that lovely little,

49:03

[00 47:10.156 – 00:47:11.656] uh, soundtrack piece.

49:05

[00 47:11.656 – 00:47:20.566] But, but, you know, it wasn't, it was your movie that really-

49:09

[00 47:23.165 – 00:47:31.525] I never understood that Bill and Lois, up until I saw that film 12, 15 years ago, how long they were homeless.

49:17

[00 47:31.525 – 00:47:37.725] And we're not talking about, you know, couple bad weeks on a friend's couch.

49:22

[00 47:37.725 – 00:47:44.865] I mean, it was a couple of years after the publishing of the book that they were, they were literally on the streets.

49:30

[00 47:44.865 – 00:47:52.045] And if somebody was going on a vacation somewhere, they'd go and stay at their home or they were staying at the clubhouse.

49:39

[00 47:52.045 – 00:47:55.865] And one of the things, you know, we talk about Lois and la, la, la.

49:44

[00 47:55.865 – 00:48:05.885] I mean, she put up with that for two years after getting tossed out of her family's heirloom home

49:51

[00 48:05.885 – 00:48:06.925] on Clinton Street.

49:53

[00 48:06.925 – 00:48:08.585] Ah.

49:53

[00 48:08.585 – 00:48:18.105] And I, I al- I always say this to myself, and I'll say it out loud now, you know, L- Lois was not a, a college gal or somebody, you know, in her 20s.

50:06

[00 48:18.105 – 00:48:28.205] She was in her early 50s, and it was almost exactly two years because they were thrown out of the house in April of 1939, and the first night that they spent at Stepping Stones

50:18

[00 48:28.205 – 00:48:29.825] was April of 1941.

50:19

[00 48:29.825 – 00:48:39.615] And when Dan and I were working on the film, we made a point of, of counting how many different places they stayed in that two-year period, and I think it was 51 or 52.

50:31

[00 48:39.615 – 00:48:45.265] And there was a period of time where they had an apartment for...

50:36

[00 48:45.265 – 00:48:48.185] D- Dan knows, uh, remembers this.

50:39

[00 48:48.185 – 00:48:51.065] Dan remembers data better than I do.

50:41

[00 48:51.065 – 00:48:51.615] But I, I...

50:43

[00 48:51.615 – 00:48:58.004] They had a little stretch in an apartment in the Village, and it was a little, tiny apartment, but that was for a couple months or something like that.

50:53

[00 48:58.004 – 00:49:08.045] And then otherwise, they were either at the clubhouse, they were staying in places like Green Pond, which was a, which was a summer camp in New Jersey that was ki- at the time was in the middle of nowhere,

51:08

[00 49:08.045 – 00:49:13.205] and it was a week here, a week there, couple weeks here, couple days there.

51:13

[00 49:13.205 – 00:49:19.165] Um, the, yeah, I mean, it, it, it, it was, um...

51:17

[00 49:19.165 – 00:49:24.025] I'm sure that was very, very difficult for the two of them, but especially for Lois.

51:23

[00 49:24.025 – 00:49:26.915] That must have b- just been very draining and very wearing.

51:28

[00 49:26.915 – 00:49:32.504] And I don't know if you folks, uh, know the story, but it's, it's a great story.

51:34

[00 49:32.504 – 00:49:37.265] And, and please, Kevin, interrupt me if I, uh, if I, if I err.

51:39

[00 49:37.265 – 00:49:39.345] But, uh, D.W.

51:41

[00 49:39.345 – 00:49:43.165] Griffith, his daughter was in the real estate business.

51:44

[00 49:43.165 – 00:49:46.605] She bought properties and the like.

51:47

[00 49:46.605 – 00:49:56.685] And, um, she had a friend that got sober in Alcoholics Anonymous, and she was just amazed.

51:53

[00 49:56.685 – 00:50:06.885] And so she started, you know, trying to find out about this AA thing, and she finds out that the guy that ultimately had, had started the thing that helped her friend

52:05

[00 50:06.885 – 00:50:10.785] and his wife are basically living on the streets.

52:08

[00 50:10.785 – 00:50:20.925] And, uh, she, she's got this place up in, uh, uh, Katonah, and she thinks, "Well, this,

52:14

[00 50:20.925 – 00:50:29.485] this would be, this could be perfect for him." And she, uh, she knew what it was like dealing with men.

52:22

[00 50:29.485 – 00:50:39.505] And at the time, um, I think they were paying 14 bucks, or was it 31 bucks a, a, a month for storage of the stuff when they

52:32

[00 50:39.505 – 00:50:41.325] got to throw it out of Clinton Street.

52:35

[00 50:41.325 – 00:50:45.555] Um, they still had it in storage, and, uh, the...

52:39

[00 50:45.555 – 00:50:55.625] And so she made it so that when she wrote the contract up that, um, that the price of the, the monthly price of the,

52:48

[00 50:55.625 – 00:50:58.865] of the home was what they were paying for storage.

52:52

[00 50:58.865 – 00:51:04.545] Yeah, and she held, she held the mortgage herself.

52:55

[00 51:04.545 – 00:51:11.345] I mean, you know, no- nobody was, nobody in that s- Th- they, the Wilsons were not getting a bank loan at that point from any, anybody.

53:05

[00 51:11.345 – 00:51:21.545] So sh- she, she, she made the monthly payment equivalent e- exactly what they were paying for storage, and she held that mortgage herself for, you know, several years,

53:15

[00 51:21.545 – 00:51:23.925] so, um.

53:16

[00 51:23.925 – 00:51:26.685] And I, I, I will say I, I...

53:20

[00 51:26.685 – 00:51:36.805] It always strikes me, uh, you can see in Lois's diary when Lois got to that house, she, she, she just

53:27

[00 51:36.805 – 00:51:41.484] fell in love with that house, and it was, it, it, it opened the door to all her creativity.

53:34

[00 51:41.484 – 00:51:43.564] Uh, she loved gardening.

53:36

[00 51:43.564 – 00:51:44.985] She loved decorating.

53:37

[00 51:44.985 – 00:51:55.185] And that, um, she ju- she just landed in a spot where she, she could just really come into her own, and y- there's, there's a huge amount of joy,

53:48

[00 51:55.185 – 00:51:58.925] uh, for her after, after they finally do find that landing spot.

53:53

[00 51:58.925 – 00:52:01.805] It was, it was a, it was a wonderful thing in her life.

53:58

[00 52:01.805 – 00:52:11.805] One thing I learned from Lois, um, if you look, you can see my, my, my fireplace is back here, and then, then my love seat's here,

54:07

[00 52:11.805 – 00:52:12.305] right?

54:08

[00 52:12.305 – 00:52:21.425] And Lois, what she would do is, is that at the equinox she would change the orientation of the house.

54:15

[00 52:21.425 – 00:52:31.425] During the winter it was towards the fireplace, and during the, the, the spring she'd move it so the orientation was, uh, so you'd

54:24

[00 52:31.425 – 00:52:33.665] be looking out onto the gardens and the like.

54:28

[00 52:33.665 – 00:52:38.565] And, um, and she'd move the artwork around and stuff, and so that's what I do.

54:34

[00 52:38.565 – 00:52:48.825] I I learned from Lois Wilson, and I, I literally reimagine my house, uh, twice a year because of what, uh, she taught

54:42

[00 52:48.825 – 00:52:49.025] me.

54:43

[00 52:49.025 – 00:52:52.245] And it, it keeps my, my spirit alive.

54:46

[00 52:52.245 – 00:52:57.565] And she made her own slipcovers for the sofa.

54:49

[00 52:57.565 – 00:53:00.665] Yeah.

54:50

[00 53:00.665 – 00:53:10.765] Um, one of the things about the, the, the movie, um, that, that Janine contributed, maybe you guys can talk a little bit

54:59

[00 53:10.765 – 00:53:21.025] about the, um, about shooting here in Sedona and what that was like and, and, but, but also about being able to use the iPad

55:08

[00 53:21.025 – 00:53:24.065] to communicate and, and that kind of stuff.

55:11

[00 53:24.065 – 00:53:26.965] Well- Yeah, please ...

55:12

[00 53:26.965 – 00:53:28.325] Kevin, you wanna answer?

55:14

[00 53:28.325 – 00:53:28.815] No, please.

55:15

[00 53:28.815 – 00:53:28.815] Go for it.

55:16

[00 53:28.815 – 00:53:30.025] Well, okay, I'll just put in.

55:19

[00 53:30.025 – 00:53:31.005] I'll just say real quick.

55:21

[00 53:31.005 – 00:53:37.845] Well, so Kevin's in New York, and we're shooting this here in Sedona, and so Kevin can't see what's going on.

55:29

[00 53:37.845 – 00:53:47.365] So I took an iPad and showed Kevin remotely how to, how, you know, what was going on so he could direct remotely.

55:37

[00 53:47.365 – 00:53:50.785] Yeah.

55:38

[00 53:50.785 – 00:53:54.425] I've, I've, I've never, I've never conducted an interview like that.

55:42

[00 53:54.425 – 00:53:56.005] It was certainly very interesting.

55:44

[00 53:56.005 – 00:53:59.605] Um, but, uh, yeah.

55:46

[00 53:59.605 – 00:54:07.965] And Jani- Janine w- was my eyes and ears because, uh, she, she was, she was all over getting that iPad in the right spot for me to be able-

55:57

[00 54:08.134 – 00:54:11.174] To really try and have a sense of what was going on.

56:01

[00 54:11.174 – 00:54:15.763] So Jay, I, I have, as I, as we said, I have to get off at 10:00- Right ...

56:08

[00 54:15.763 – 00:54:22.494] which is in five minutes, so, um, I don't know if you wanna open it up to ques- w- you know, if there's anything else.

56:17

[00 54:22.494 – 00:54:27.234] Yeah, does anybody, Tim, can you, uh, moderate and see if anybody's got a question for Kevin?

56:23

[00 54:27.234 – 00:54:29.254] Yes.

56:24

[00 54:29.254 – 00:54:34.134] Any questions, please use the raise hand function, and I will call on you as you raise your hands.

56:31

[00 54:34.134 – 00:54:41.214] All right.

56:32

[00 54:41.214 – 00:54:42.474] First up is Victor.

56:34

[00 54:42.474 – 00:54:43.273] You can unmute.

56:35

[00 54:43.273 – 00:54:46.194] Hi, friends and family.

56:37

[00 54:46.194 – 00:54:47.303] What a beautiful evening.

56:39

[00 54:47.303 – 00:54:48.554] When's part two?

56:40

[00 54:48.554 – 00:54:49.494] When's part two?

56:41

[00 54:49.494 – 00:54:50.554] When's part two?

56:43

[00 54:50.554 – 00:54:52.534] I love this group and I always will.

56:46

[00 54:52.534 – 00:54:55.194] God bless everyone, and all the hard work.

56:49

[00 54:55.194 – 00:54:58.094] We are in exactly where we're supposed to be.

56:53

[00 54:58.094 – 00:54:58.954] When's part two?

56:54

[00 54:58.954 – 00:54:59.834] When's part two?

56:55

[00 54:59.834 – 00:55:02.414] Thank to God for women that are in our lives.

56:59

[00 55:02.414 – 00:55:02.974] Thank you.

57:00

[00 55:02.974 – 00:55:03.354] Over.

57:01

[00 55:03.354 – 00:55:08.634] After we pay for part one.

57:03

[00 55:08.634 – 00:55:13.413] Get out there and get your friends on board.

57:07

[00 55:13.413 – 00:55:17.834] Uh, thank you, Victor.

57:09

[00 55:17.834 – 00:55:19.314] Next is, uh, Maureen.

57:10

[00 55:19.314 – 00:55:20.174] You can unmute.

57:12

[00 55:20.174 – 00:55:22.474] Thanks, Tim.

57:13

[00 55:22.474 – 00:55:24.054] Uh, thanks, Kevin.

57:14

[00 55:24.054 – 00:55:24.933] Thanks, Jay.

57:15

[00 55:24.933 – 00:55:25.674] Thanks, Jeanette.

57:16

[00 55:25.674 – 00:55:32.664] Uh, you know, I just wanted to, uh, I was just wondering if, I haven't, I'd said I, I, I have, uh ...

57:24

[00 55:32.664 – 00:55:33.654] I haven't streamed it yet.

57:26

[00 55:33.654 – 00:55:35.494] I have downloaded it.

57:28

[00 55:35.494 – 00:55:40.694] Um, but I was wondering if, if there's any thought to maybe looking at Lilydale too.

57:34

[00 55:40.694 – 00:55:42.664] Wasn't, um, Dr.

57:36

[00 55:42.664 – 00:55:47.514] Bob and Anne going to Livi- uh, Lilydale quite a bit?

57:40

[00 55:47.514 – 00:55:48.834] Oh, yeah.

57:41

[00 55:48.834 – 00:55:58.834] The, the thing is, is that, um, where Lilydale will come in is I've got a, a volume

57:47

[00 55:58.834 – 00:56:08.874] of essays that's gonna come out with the book deepening different aspects of, of Bill's life, and I'll mention Lilydale, uh, in

57:56

[00 56:08.874 – 00:56:09.274] there.

57:56

[00 56:09.274 – 00:56:19.574] Um, and for those of you who don't know, especially those of you who are up in the Northeast, Lilydale is a, uh, is a free thought

58:06

[00 56:19.574 – 00:56:20.134] zone.

58:07

[00 56:20.134 – 00:56:25.774] Um, and it was a place that, uh, Susan B.

58:11

[00 56:25.774 – 00:56:32.094] Anthony could go and talk about women's suffrage and not be, uh, arrested.

58:15

[00 56:32.094 – 00:56:39.834] And the only way you can live in Lilydale is if you're a registered medium, and, uh, it's, it's an incredible thing and...

58:24

[00 56:39.834 – 00:56:42.214] So I'll go, I'll go down that wormhole.

58:27

[00 56:42.214 – 00:56:46.354] Whether we'll do a film there, I, I, I ...

58:31

[00 56:46.354 – 00:56:50.014] Kevin and I have got something else we've got, we got cooking in the back of our minds.

58:37

[00 56:50.014 – 00:56:55.074] But it's not totally Wilson-centric, but it's Wilson tangential.

58:41

[00 56:55.074 – 00:56:56.394] So we'll see.

58:42

[00 56:56.394 – 00:56:58.154] Okay.

58:43

[00 56:58.154 – 00:56:58.974] Thanks, guys.

58:44

[00 56:58.974 – 00:57:03.334] Thank you.

58:45

[00 57:03.334 – 00:57:04.833] And next is Mary.

58:47

[00 57:04.833 – 00:57:06.254] You can unmute.

58:48

[00 57:06.254 – 00:57:10.734] Hi, I'm Mary, an alcoholic.

58:50

[00 57:10.734 – 00:57:20.874] And, uh, it's difficult to hear you all, but, uh, from what I'm picking up, it seems as though this movie

58:58

[00 57:20.874 – 00:57:31.434] has made, uh, Bill Wilson and Lois more relatable as, uh, a peer group, or peer,

59:04

[00 57:31.434 – 00:57:37.854] uh, brothers and sisters in, in the struggle for sobriety.

59:08

[00 57:37.854 – 00:57:42.374] And I was wondering in the, in the movie, now I'm, I'm ...

59:12

[00 57:42.374 – 00:57:52.614] Before I really didn't care that much about it, but now I'm more anxious to see the movie, you know, because in the movie, uh, have you kinda like played up, uh, Lois'

59:24

[00 57:52.614 – 00:57:56.694] struggles, uh, a b- uh, i- in this movie?

59:28

[00 57:56.694 – 00:58:06.574] I know that they were a pair, but you know, it sounds to me like Lois did a lot of propping up Bill to keep him going.

59:37

[00 58:06.574 – 00:58:10.334] Uh, and- Well- I, I'm ...

59:39

[00 58:10.334 – 00:58:10.514] Yeah.

59:40

[00 58:10.514 – 00:58:13.024] Well, I did not- Thank you ...

59:43

[00 58:13.024 – 00:58:14.204] I didn't mean to cut you off.

59:45

[00 58:14.204 – 00:58:16.993] If you, if you had more that you were gonna say, please go ahead.

59:51

[00 58:16.993 – 00:58:27.034] No, I was just gonna say it sounds really like, uh, a welcoming to people to the program rather than

59:58

[00 58:27.034 – 00:58:28.914] this doesn't sound real.

60:00

[00 58:28.914 – 00:58:30.254] You know what I mean?

60:02

[00 58:30.254 – 00:58:33.174] Some people say, "I read the book, I read the book, I do the steps," you know?

60:08

[00 58:33.174 – 00:58:42.674] But w- we, some of us are looking for a more relatable, uh, presentation, and it sounds as though this might be it.

60:17

[00 58:42.674 – 00:58:43.614] Thank you.

60:18

[00 58:43.614 – 00:58:45.294] Okay.

60:18

[00 58:45.294 – 00:58:47.714] So I'll just jump in, and then Jay, Jay can ...

60:22

[00 58:47.714 – 00:58:57.974] Um, the film that I worked on with Dan Carracino, which came out lo- you know, more than 10 years ago, um, that, that had much more about Lois's

60:32

[00 58:57.974 – 00:59:00.294] struggle in it than this film does.

60:35

[00 59:00.294 – 00:59:05.044] And the reason was that it, you know, it was more of a biography of Bill, and, and- Right ...

60:42

[00 59:05.044 – 00:59:10.314] obviously you c- you could not do a biography of Bill without a great deal of attention to Lois.

60:49

[00 59:10.314 – 00:59:16.074] And so there w- there was much more about that, that topic in, in that earlier film.

60:55

[00 59:16.074 – 00:59:22.774] But this film is very different because it focuses really on the last year of Bill's life.

61:02

[00 59:22.774 – 00:59:32.814] There, there is, there is stuff in this film about Lois, and about the way Bill and Lois, uh, prayed together and things they did together, but the, um, the

61:12

[00 59:32.814 – 00:59:36.934] earlier years of struggle aren't, aren't really central to the topic of this film.

61:18

[00 59:36.934 – 00:59:39.074] So there's not a lot of detail about that.

61:21

[00 59:39.074 – 00:59:46.254] Um, and, and I, Jay, I'm gonna have to go in a couple minutes.

61:26

[00 59:46.254 – 00:59:56.894] So, but you, y- if there was something, you know, if you wanted to add more about- Well, uh, Janine just had a real interesting experience the other day with

61:37

[00 59:56.894 – 00:59:57.614] a sponsee.

61:38

[00 59:57.614 – 00:59:58.614] Yeah.

61:39

[00 59:58.614 – 01:00:03.114] I have a new sponsee who's got under 30 days, and she watched the film.

61:44

[01 00:03.114 – 01:00:05.014] And I'm just gonna read what she texted me.

61:48

[01 00:05.014 – 01:00:11.114] Uh, she says, "It's comparable to someone discovering the cure for cancer and giving it away for free.

61:54

[01 00:11.114 – 01:00:15.414] Even though I know the allergy can't be cured, that's the only life thing I can think of.

62:01

[01 00:15.414 – 01:00:21.214] I love the descriptions in the movie because so many people don't understand it or the allergy.

62:07

[01 00:21.214 – 01:00:23.634] I know I didn't until now.

62:10

[01 00:23.634 – 01:00:27.003] I'm only s- scraping 10%.

62:12

[01 00:27.003 – 01:00:28.594] Very thankful to get to watch that.

62:14

[01 00:28.594 – 01:00:32.914] What a wonderful contribution to each community." Think about Sue's face.

62:19

[01 00:32.914 – 01:00:34.074] Oh, yeah.

62:20

[01 00:34.074 – 01:00:35.874] So sorry.

62:21

[01 00:35.874 – 01:00:36.934] That's all right.

62:22

[01 00:36.934 – 01:00:40.114] There's a ...

62:23

[01 00:40.114 – 01:00:43.014] Let's go back here.

62:25

[01 00:43.014 – 01:00:43.914] Da, da, da, da, da.

62:27

[01 00:43.914 – 01:00:49.054] No, that was ...

62:28

[01 00:49.054 – 01:00:50.654] Ah, no, she ...

62:30

[01 00:50.654 – 01:00:53.774] Anyway, the-

62:31

[01 00:54.117 – 01:01:01.997] The, uh, she was speaking with this young woman the other day, and she- this woman had never seen a picture of Bill Wilson Yeah, I don't know where that is ...

62:42

[01 01:01.997 – 01:01:07.117] and, and, and she didn't have any relationship.

62:45

[01 01:07.117 – 01:01:17.217] Many people, the, the only relationship that they have with the, uh, co-founders is that, that hemorrhoid-producing, uh, picture of Bill and Bob sitting

62:54

[01 01:17.217 – 01:01:18.647] on the couch together.

62:56

[01 01:18.647 – 01:01:21.117] You know, it's, it's not very flattering.

62:58

[01 01:21.117 – 01:01:28.537] Well, I, I, I have to get off now, but before I do, I wanna say two quick things.

63:05

[01 01:28.537 – 01:01:37.397] One is, um, you know, to, uh, to thank Mike and Tim for putting this on every week and all that Recovery Speaker does.

63:14

[01 01:37.397 – 01:01:45.757] And Recovery Speaker, by the way, gave us a lot of the archival audio that we needed to have to put- to build the, um, intro to the film.

63:25

[01 01:45.757 – 01:01:47.937] So I wanna thank them publicly for that.

63:28

[01 01:47.937 – 01:01:53.137] Uh, they, they, they really, um, they, they really went all out to help us with that.

63:34

[01 01:53.137 – 01:01:58.837] And then I wanna say thank you to Jay, because this is his, this is, this is Jay's project.

63:41

[01 01:58.837 – 01:02:02.317] This, I, you know, he asked me to help, and I was happy to do it.

63:47

[01 02:02.317 – 01:02:05.417] But, um, this, this doesn't exist without Jay.

63:50

[01 02:05.417 – 01:02:14.217] It was his idea, and he produced it, and he put a lot into it to get this film made, so I just, I just, I just wanna say thank you to Jay.

64:02

[01 02:14.217 – 01:02:17.957] Um, and, uh, that's it.

64:04

[01 02:17.957 – 01:02:25.897] I, I have to go now, but, uh, just it was a, it's a, always a pleasure to be here and, and an honor to get to speak on this platform, so thank you all.

64:17

[01 02:25.897 – 01:02:27.897] Thanks, Kev.

64:18

[01 02:27.897 – 01:02:28.267] Okay.

64:19

[01 02:28.267 – 01:02:29.697] He's got to work early tomorrow.

64:21

[01 02:29.697 – 01:02:31.457] He's got, he's got a job to do.

64:24

[01 02:31.457 – 01:02:34.237] All right.

64:25

[01 02:34.237 – 01:02:35.557] I'll take care now.

64:27

[01 02:35.557 – 01:02:36.417] Everybody take care.

64:28

[01 02:36.417 – 01:02:36.647] Yeah.

64:29

[01 02:36.647 – 01:02:36.877] Bye.

64:30

[01 02:36.877 – 01:02:37.497] Thank you.

64:31

[01 02:37.497 – 01:02:46.017] Um, one of the things that Tim was kind enough to do is he put my absolute favorite Bill Wilson talk on today.

64:39

[01 02:46.017 – 01:02:56.447] So if you're gonna, if, if you want some real wonderful insights into, uh, Alcoholics

64:45

[01 02:56.447 – 01:03:06.317] Anonymous, this particular talk, when he talks about the X factor and, and, uh, just it's, it's, it's my, my personal favorite anyway.

64:53

[01 03:06.317 – 01:03:08.097] Hmm.

64:54

[01 03:08.097 – 01:03:10.177] Well, thank you.

64:55

[01 03:10.177 – 01:03:12.346] And Jay, you're good to keep rolling with questions?

64:59

[01 03:12.346 – 01:03:13.267] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

65:00

[01 03:13.267 – 01:03:13.286] Yeah.

65:01

[01 03:13.286 – 01:03:13.777] All right.

65:02

[01 03:13.777 – 01:03:14.737] Next up is- You know me ...

65:04

[01 03:14.737 – 01:03:15.177] Bob.

65:05

[01 03:15.177 – 01:03:17.237] You can unmute.

65:07

[01 03:17.237 – 01:03:20.037] Hello, everybody.

65:08

[01 03:20.037 – 01:03:22.697] My name's Bob Major, and I am an alcoholic.

65:11

[01 03:22.697 – 01:03:25.096] Jay, I wanna thank you very, very much.

65:14

[01 03:25.096 – 01:03:29.957] I haven't seen it yet, but what is the, uh, total run time?

65:19

[01 03:29.957 – 01:03:34.677] Uh, 58 minutes and 37 seconds.

65:21

[01 03:34.677 – 01:03:35.757] Perfect.

65:22

[01 03:35.757 – 01:03:36.597] Perfect.

65:22

[01 03:36.597 – 01:03:47.126] Uh, my home group has a, uh, a, a meeting once a year where they do history, and I'm, I'm thinking about presenting

65:31

[01 03:47.126 – 01:03:51.357] this to my home group instead of a, a short history presentation.

65:35

[01 03:51.357 – 01:03:53.537] So I wanna thank you very much.

65:38

[01 03:53.537 – 01:04:03.767] Yeah, so one of the things we're doing is, is that, that this film we're asking y- everyone to, you know,

65:46

[01 04:03.767 – 01:04:04.337] to pay.

65:47

[01 04:04.337 – 01:04:12.177] Costs you a whole $7.99, which, you know, if, if it was in a book it'd be, you know, three times that much.

65:55

[01 04:12.177 – 01:04:12.677] Right.

65:56

[01 04:12.677 – 01:04:18.397] Um, and we would never be able to have all the images and all the stuff that we're able to do in it.

66:04

[01 04:18.397 – 01:04:28.737] But any group like you're, that you're talking about or any convention or roundup or anything, we will arrange for a one-time stream

66:12

[01 04:28.737 – 01:04:31.377] where there is no screening fee at all involved.

66:16

[01 04:31.377 – 01:04:41.837] You just get ahold of me or get ahold of Stepping Stones and, and we'll make sure that, uh, that you get a one-time code to be able to, to, uh,

66:27

[01 04:41.837 – 01:04:43.457] to, uh, show this thing.

66:29

[01 04:43.457 – 01:04:52.397] Now, it's being shown on the Vimeo platform so that it doesn't go viral, and so that we can, we can, uh, you know, make the money back on it.

66:40

[01 04:52.397 – 01:04:54.837] But, but we want this message out.

66:43

[01 04:54.837 – 01:05:04.897] So, um, you know, we'll be happy to any group that's got something to do with recovery that's, you know, over 50, 100 people, we'll, we'll be delighted to, to make

66:53

[01 05:04.897 – 01:05:06.397] it available to you at no charge.

66:56

[01 05:06.397 – 01:05:11.257] Thank you, Bob.

66:57

[01 05:11.257 – 01:05:17.917] And I am not seeing any more hands raised for questions, so any, uh, comments, Jay?

67:03

[01 05:17.917 – 01:05:28.107] I

67:04

[01 05:28.107 – 01:05:39.117] was raised in an Alcoholics Anonymous where my home group, the Hermosa Beach Men's Stag, has

67:10

[01 05:39.117 – 01:05:49.137] a flag, and it says, "Work the steps or die." And then there's another plank or ski to our

67:17

[01 05:49.137 – 01:05:59.577] thing in that neighborhood, and it was the 11-step group of ma- of Alcoholics Anonymous that has been meeting since 1948.

67:24

[01 05:59.577 – 01:06:03.317] They've just got a little experience.

67:27

[01 06:03.317 – 01:06:12.017] And so those of us that were raised in that neighborhood, we were working the 11 step from the beginning.

67:34

[01 06:12.017 – 01:06:15.897] It's not extra credit.

67:36

[01 06:15.897 – 01:06:23.597] And, um, I've been privileged to be a seeker all my life.

67:40

[01 06:23.597 – 01:06:33.897] And so, uh, the 11 step has been very important to me, and especially in the 46 years that I've been sober and getting to go all around the planet

67:50

[01 06:33.897 – 01:06:44.627] and be of service and do one thing or another, to see how arid Alcoholics

67:56

[01 06:44.627 – 01:06:51.117] Anonymous is, how dry.

67:58

[01 06:51.117 – 01:07:01.547] Now, my privilege here in, in, in Sedona is

68:01

[01 07:01.547 – 01:07:08.877] that because I, you know, put my phone number on the, on the thing and everything, I want people, if, if I can be helpful for people that come to me.

68:12

[01 07:08.877 – 01:07:13.317] And so my 12-step work that I do in Sedona is people from all over the planet.

68:19

[01 07:13.317 – 01:07:18.287] They, they're, "Oh, I'm coming to Sedona," and if I'm in town, I don't meet them in a meeting.

68:26

[01 07:18.287 – 01:07:23.557] I have them come to the house, and I take them up on the red rock.

68:32

[01 07:23.557 – 01:07:25.797] We have some coffee, and we take them up on the red rock.

68:36

[01 07:25.797 – 01:07:31.907] We do a little meditative experience down here, and come down and I'll ask them, you know, "What's going on?

68:44

[01 07:31.907 – 01:07:37.157] Why, why?" You know, and, and a lot of times the people that come here are not in a good space.

68:51

[01 07:37.157 – 01:07:39.977] Say, "What are you do-

68:54

[01 07:40.107 – 01:07:42.247] So what's your prayer life like?

68:56

[01 07:42.247 – 01:07:46.506] I do the third step prayer, seventh step prayer, 11th step prayer.

69:01

[01 07:46.506 – 01:07:47.387] Yep.

69:01

[01 07:47.387 – 01:07:49.567] And you're sober 20 years.

69:03

[01 07:49.567 – 01:07:50.667] Yeah.

69:04

[01 07:50.667 – 01:07:55.347] And this is what you're doing.

69:06

[01 07:55.347 – 01:08:01.327] Did you miss the memo about growing along spiritual lines?

69:10

[01 08:01.327 – 01:08:11.427] And so my life has been dedicated to, to, to, to trying to let people know that this is not,

69:17

[01 08:11.427 – 01:08:17.366] number one, that it's not optional, but number two, it's not a chore.

69:22

[01 08:17.366 – 01:08:27.367] Um, you know, uh, you'll, you'll meet people and they'll say, "Well, I don't meditate 'cause I'm not good at it." My friends, I was not good at

69:32

[01 08:27.367 – 01:08:30.067] not drinking, but I hung in there.

69:35

[01 08:30.067 – 01:08:40.107] And, uh, so, so the opportunity to encourage people to grow along spiritual line has been my, my deal in

69:43

[01 08:40.107 – 01:08:40.437] AA.

69:43

[01 08:40.437 – 01:08:50.507] Then to have the opportunity to meet a man that taught the man that

69:49

[01 08:50.507 – 01:09:00.607] sa- that, that, that got the string rolling to me a new meditation practice at the end of his life, to me that was, like, golden.

69:58

[01 09:00.607 – 01:09:03.467] There's, there's a another interesting thing, you know.

70:01

[01 09:03.467 – 01:09:05.607] So we got this guy saying that this has happened.

70:05

[01 09:05.607 – 01:09:07.727] We got this group of people saying that this happened.

70:09

[01 09:07.727 – 01:09:17.747] Sharon Wolfe, the, uh, the collections manager at Stepping Stone, now deputy

70:13

[01 09:17.747 – 01:09:19.527] director, we've got to get her a badge.

70:16

[01 09:19.527 – 01:09:30.047] Um, she, uh, she was looking for me for information about when it was that,

70:22

[01 09:30.047 – 01:09:35.047] uh, they had these TM meetings at the house or something.

70:26

[01 09:35.047 – 01:09:35.987] There, there wasn't...

70:28

[01 09:35.987 – 01:09:37.907] We, we couldn't find anything.

70:30

[01 09:37.907 – 01:09:47.947] And I was asking because, and Lincoln Norton says that he remembers it was either the 10th or the 11th of December, he kept really copious

70:39

[01 09:47.947 – 01:09:50.987] notes, that he taught Bill Wilson, gave him his mantra.

70:43

[01 09:50.987 – 01:10:00.147] Well, some of you AA geeks realize that December 11th is the day that he, uh, went into Towns hospital the last time.

70:51

[01 10:00.147 – 01:10:09.407] So it's the 35th anniversary that Bill, the, of Bill's going into the hospital that, that he's learning TM.

70:58

[01 10:09.407 – 01:10:12.047] I mean, you can't make this stuff up.

71:02

[01 10:12.047 – 01:10:16.587] Anyway, so she's looking for me in, in, in late December.

71:06

[01 10:16.587 – 01:10:19.927] There's nothing there.

71:07

[01 10:19.927 – 01:10:24.867] How am I gonna be able to go to the naysayers and, like...

71:12

[01 10:24.867 – 01:10:28.387] And then she makes the mistake of turning the page.

71:16

[01 10:28.387 – 01:10:35.707] And there at the first day of January it says, "Mantra meditation group," and it says the people who were there.

71:24

[01 10:35.707 – 01:10:45.987] 'Cause after you get your mantra, they have this, then they call it checking meetings, where the, you get together another three times and make sure that the meditation's going right and

71:35

[01 10:45.987 – 01:10:48.307] ask questions to the person of touch and all that stuff.

71:39

[01 10:48.307 – 01:10:50.327] And so they did that at Stepping Stones.

71:43

[01 10:50.327 – 01:10:58.047] And, uh, and so it was, i- we got the, we got the, the, the, the real, the real deal there.

71:50

[01 10:58.047 – 01:11:02.067] But so to me this is really, really instructive.

71:54

[01 11:02.067 – 01:11:12.327] But even more instructive is, and, and I'm a, I'm a big one, you know, you, you, you're around a while and, and you see when the challenges come, what people

72:05

[01 11:12.327 – 01:11:14.007] do is they lean out.

72:07

[01 11:14.007 – 01:11:17.587] We have a kid.

72:09

[01 11:17.587 – 01:11:20.127] We start a business.

72:11

[01 11:20.127 – 01:11:25.887] We do this, we do that, and I'm too busy to be involved.

72:15

[01 11:25.887 – 01:11:35.907] And of course you're not involved at the level you were when, when, when you didn't have those responsibilities, but, but what do you

72:24

[01 11:35.907 – 01:11:37.687] do when, when you get in trouble?

72:27

[01 11:37.687 – 01:11:38.627] You lean in.

72:28

[01 11:38.627 – 01:11:41.487] You lean in spiritually.

72:30

[01 11:41.487 – 01:11:46.947] And here Bill is in real trouble, and he's, uh- Mm ...

72:34

[01 11:46.947 – 01:11:50.027] and, and he's learning a new meditation technique.

72:37

[01 11:50.027 – 01:11:55.547] And then, uh, I'll, I'll tell you one little story and then we'll, we'll go up to our friend there.

72:45

[01 11:55.547 – 01:12:01.007] Um, so I've got a meditation teacher.

72:48

[01 12:01.007 – 01:12:05.227] It's like, you know, it's like if you're gonna learn golf, you get, you get golf instructors.

72:54

[01 12:05.227 – 01:12:09.687] And so I've done a lot of different things over the years, and currently I've got this guy that I work with.

73:02

[01 12:09.687 – 01:12:11.547] It's not transcendental meditation.

73:04

[01 12:11.547 – 01:12:21.947] And, uh, anyway, I s- but he was involved with, uh, with that at one time, and, uh, and so I, uh, I

73:12

[01 12:21.947 – 01:12:32.147] mentioned to him that I'm doing this movie on Bill Wilson, and he looks at me and he goes, "Well, I meditated with Bill." I mean, th- this is the magic

73:23

[01 12:32.147 – 01:12:33.227] of the life that I have.

73:26

[01 12:33.227 – 01:12:40.547] I mean, when I tell you I'm the most m- fortunate male form you've ever met, you can't make this stuff up.

73:34

[01 12:40.547 – 01:12:41.327] So, what?

73:35

[01 12:41.327 – 01:12:51.367] So and my buddy says, "Well, yeah, I was, I was teaching TM to, uh, the strategic care command first responders

73:43

[01 12:51.367 – 01:12:54.467] in, uh, in 1978 down at my dad's...

73:45

[01 12:54.467 – 01:13:04.487] My dad was in, uh, a big Pentagon guy down in, uh, Tampa, Florida." And he says, uh, "So I'm, uh, I'm,

73:53

[01 13:04.487 – 01:13:10.127] I'm, I'm there and I get a call saying that there's this guy down in Miami that's got some trouble.

74:01

[01 13:10.127 – 01:13:20.187] And, uh, can we go down and find out whether or not..." But he, he said, uh, "Well, in transcendental meditation it's 20

74:09

[01 13:20.187 – 01:13:21.567] minutes twice a day no matter what.

74:12

[01 13:21.567 – 01:13:23.037] N- no more, no less.

74:14

[01 13:23.037 – 01:13:33.077] 20 minutes." But he said that he was told that this person was in trouble, and that he was to go down there

74:22

[01 13:33.077 – 01:13:43.487] and check his meditation practice, and if his meditating practice was strong enough, that he could meditate with the person

74:29

[01 13:43.487 – 01:13:48.707] twice, once, uh, o- over a two-day period for one hour.

74:33

[01 13:48.707 – 01:13:58.907] And if it seemed successful, then this person could then, uh, meditate an hour twice a day, and that would e- either

74:41

[01 13:58.907 – 01:14:08.407] happen is that if spontaneous remission was, was nature's will, that there, that would happen, or that if they were to cross it would be much easier.

74:51

[01 14:08.407 – 01:14:18.427] So my buddy borrows car from his dad, drives down to, drives down to Miami, knocks on the door, walks

74:58

[01 14:18.427 – 01:14:19.027] in this house.

75:00

[01 14:19.027 – 01:14:24.007] It's, i- it's around the convention in 1970, the International.

75:03

[01 14:24.007 – 01:14:25.937] Comes in, a woman gr-

75:05

[01 14:26.126 – 01:14:26.316] him.

75:06

[01 14:26.316 – 01:14:28.376] Goes in, meets Bill.

75:08

[01 14:28.376 – 01:14:29.696] Bill and him start talking.

75:10

[01 14:29.696 – 01:14:30.736] Bill gets all excited.

75:12

[01 14:30.736 – 01:14:32.076] Bill's on oxygen.

75:13

[01 14:32.076 – 01:14:33.996] He's got a long lead on his mask.

75:16

[01 14:33.996 – 01:14:34.976] He's walking around.

75:18

[01 14:34.976 – 01:14:36.856] They're talking, they're having a good time.

75:21

[01 14:36.856 – 01:14:42.415] Wilson takes the mask off, lights up an L&M cigarette.

75:25

[01 14:42.415 – 01:14:52.356] The woman comes in and goes, "Bill!" She wasn't concerned about him smoking, she was concerned about the oxygen blowing up.

75:32

[01 14:52.356 – 01:15:02.476] Anyway, so, um, and then they go into the bedroom, and Bill lies down and, and, um, kind of propped up 'cause you're, you're only supposed to, you're supposed

75:43

[01 15:02.476 – 01:15:04.156] to keep at a 40-degree angle with the...

75:46

[01 15:04.156 – 01:15:06.796] So he's, he's, he's, he's there.

75:48

[01 15:06.796 – 01:15:12.816] And, and my friend said that when they started meditating together, it was amazing how deep they went.

75:55

[01 15:12.816 – 01:15:17.976] And he said Bill was a champion meditator.

75:58

[01 15:17.976 – 01:15:21.416] And so they do the 20 minutes.

76:01

[01 15:21.416 – 01:15:26.716] My friend goes solid, so they do, they go an hour.

76:05

[01 15:26.716 – 01:15:36.896] Then he leaves, and he goes to a motel and comes back the next day and, and does the, uh, does, they do the,

76:14

[01 15:36.896 – 01:15:40.836] uh, the practice and, and so, um...

76:16

[01 15:40.836 – 01:15:44.246] And then he left, and that was, that was the last time he saw him.

76:22

[01 15:44.246 – 01:15:46.196] Now, couple fun things about then.

76:25

[01 15:46.196 – 01:15:56.295] Um, uh, that same practice was given to

76:28

[01 15:56.296 – 01:16:01.176] Adele, my, uh, my last wife, with, uh, uh...

76:31

[01 16:01.176 – 01:16:11.196] by the same person when she was so, so very sick, and she found great comfort in it the last,

76:39

[01 16:11.196 – 01:16:14.396] the last, uh, uh, days of her life.

76:42

[01 16:14.396 – 01:16:24.416] So again, what's Wilson doing when he's really up against it, when he's really having trouble six months, uh, when he's down trying to, trying to make it to the

76:53

[01 16:24.416 – 01:16:28.276] convention in, in, uh, in Miami?

76:55

[01 16:28.276 – 01:16:29.816] What does he do?

76:57

[01 16:29.816 – 01:16:32.736] He leans in, not out.

76:59

[01 16:32.736 – 01:16:43.216] And so, uh, um, it's just, it's, it's so thrilling to be able to, to be in the position to receive this information as

77:08

[01 16:43.216 – 01:16:43.696] you said.

77:09

[01 16:43.696 – 01:16:44.316] You know?

77:10

[01 16:44.316 – 01:16:51.336] Ether grabbing me and saying, "Stinnet can get the stories, story told" And so that's what I'm doing.

77:16

[01 16:51.336 – 01:16:52.636] So anyway, thanks.

77:18

[01 16:52.636 – 01:16:55.976] All right.

77:19

[01 16:55.976 – 01:16:56.596] Thank you.

77:20

[01 16:56.596 – 01:16:58.996] And now we will go to iPhone.

77:23

[01 16:58.996 – 01:17:01.615] I'm not sure your name, but you are free to unmute.

77:27

[01 17:01.615 – 01:17:03.896] Hey, iPhone.

77:28

[01 17:03.896 – 01:17:05.116] It's Bob Logan.

77:29

[01 17:05.116 – 01:17:06.236] Hey, bud.

77:30

[01 17:06.236 – 01:17:07.655] Good to see you again.

77:32

[01 17:07.655 – 01:17:08.816] I love you.

77:34

[01 17:08.816 – 01:17:19.256] As a member of the Monday night men's stag group in Hermosa Beach, and seeing you and thanking you for giving me my sponsor 42

77:43

[01 17:19.256 – 01:17:20.016] years ago.

77:44

[01 17:20.016 – 01:17:24.996] A sick puppy just like me.

77:46

[01 17:24.996 – 01:17:26.936] Anyway, uh, and he was.

77:48

[01 17:26.936 – 01:17:37.036] But anyway, um, you know, I, I really wanna thank you for the history stuff that you have been doing over your years, the symposium on AA history

77:58

[01 17:37.036 – 01:17:45.996] and the focus on that, and a lot of Frank Bachman and, and, uh, and those kind of things like that Frank Bachman film that was really great.

78:08

[01 17:45.996 – 01:17:55.996] So anyway, I, I just wanna thank you because now I'm archivist for the Northern California Intergroup, and, uh, we set up a reading group at the

78:18

[01 17:55.996 – 01:18:06.076] beginning of the povic- pro- the pandemic, and have been reading, we've calculated it up, probably since for five years

78:26

[01 18:06.076 – 01:18:06.536] now.

78:26

[01 18:06.536 – 01:18:13.056] And I think one of my favorite books in that group with, that we've been reading is Father Ed.

78:33

[01 18:13.056 – 01:18:13.716] You know?

78:34

[01 18:13.716 – 01:18:14.406] Father Ed- Mm-hmm ...

78:36

[01 18:14.406 – 01:18:22.576] Boling and how his effect on Bill really had, you know, they, the book calls it his spiritual advisor, and I really believe that.

78:44

[01 18:22.576 – 01:18:32.596] And I love the fact of how hard Ed had it in his life, Father Ed had it in his life, and how he was able to resolve that and then help Bill.

78:56

[01 18:32.596 – 01:18:35.836] So it was just, you know, there were some great, great things.

79:01

[01 18:35.836 – 01:18:39.376] And, uh, I, I just want you to know our reading group is successful.

79:06

[01 18:39.376 – 01:18:46.055] We have people from Australia, from New York, from New Jersey, from Florida, all over the place.

79:12

[01 18:46.055 – 01:18:47.736] I think Cathy's even on here.

79:15

[01 18:47.736 – 01:18:52.336] So, um, it's wonderful to see you again and, and bless you, sir.

79:20

[01 18:52.336 – 01:18:53.576] Thank you.

79:21

[01 18:53.576 – 01:18:56.536] You know, um, it's, uh...

79:23

[01 18:56.536 – 01:19:04.956] You know, you hang around with Jesuits and it just is, it's just a really, uh, really, uh, uh, difficult thing.

79:31

[01 19:04.956 – 01:19:08.136] And, uh, there's, uh...

79:32

[01 19:08.136 – 01:19:18.396] One of the things that I've, I've learned over the years is the person that had, um, a great, uh, editorial shaping of

79:41

[01 19:18.396 – 01:19:28.716] the 11th step, the 3rd step, and the 6th and 7th in the, uh, in the book, uh, in the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions, was,

79:50

[01 19:28.716 – 01:19:39.116] uh, a protege of Dowling by the name of Father John Ford, um, who lived in New York and the like and who was a, uh, a good friend of Wilson's.

80:01

[01 19:39.116 – 01:19:49.236] And, uh, one of the top 10 letters right there with the Barger letter is the letter that Bill wrote

80:08

[01 19:49.236 – 01:19:51.656] to F- Father Ford at one point.

80:11

[01 19:51.656 – 01:20:01.656] And in it he says, "Someday when my sins are well known, people may become

80:16

[01 20:01.656 – 01:20:02.556] disillusioned.

80:17

[01 20:02.556 – 01:20:12.556] But then the credit for Alcoholics Anonymous will go to God and not to the misshapen

80:23

[01 20:12.556 – 01:20:23.106] individuals that created it." All

80:25

[01 20:23.106 – 01:20:23.396] right.

80:26

[01 20:23.396 – 01:20:24.636] Thank you, Jay.

80:27

[01 20:24.636 – 01:20:27.916] And, uh, any other comments to close it out?

80:30

[01 20:27.916 – 01:20:30.016] I don't see any more hands raised.

80:33

[01 20:30.016 – 01:20:34.796] Um, I did share the link to the site.

80:37

[01 20:34.796 – 01:20:35.956] I will share it again.

80:39

[01 20:35.956 – 01:20:45.416] For anyone that wants more information or how to purchase or contact Jay, you can go to billwconsciouscontact.com.

80:46

[01 20:45.416 – 01:20:53.976] Or you can dial 310-874-2341.

80:48

[01 20:53.976 – 01:20:58.356] Call it collect, call it direct, but call it today.

80:52

[01 20:58.356 – 01:21:02.356] All right.

80:53

[01 21:02.356 – 01:21:03.556] Thank you so much.

80:55

[01 21:03.556 – 01:21:08.696] And, uh, now I will allow everyone to unmute and thank Jay.

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BTS Bill W Consious Contact presented by Jay S – 2025-05-06

BTS Bill W Consious Contact presented by Jay S – 2025-05-06

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