Bill W a different kind of hero presented by mike f – 2025-06-17

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Unknown Tuesday Night History Workshop • 2025

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Unknown ABOUT THIS WORKSHOP

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Unknown mike f speaking on "Bill W a different kind of hero" in Tuesday Night History Workshop (June 17, 2025). This recording is preserved in high-fidelity with interactive scrolling transcripts.

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Unknown Interactive Transcript

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[00 00:02.660 – 00:00:06.639] Welcome to the Tuesday Night Recovery Speakers History Workshop.

0:20

[00 00:06.639 – 00:00:09.599] Thank you everyone for joining us tonight.

0:24

[00 00:09.599 – 00:00:14.859] My name is Tim, and tonight we have a great presentation led by Mike F.

0:30

[00 00:14.859 – 00:00:19.359] And Mike is presenting on Bill W, A Different Kind of Hero.

0:36

[00 00:19.359 – 00:00:25.179] And we meet every Tuesday night at the same time and at the same Zoom ID number.

0:43

[00 00:25.179 – 00:00:31.899] And next week is the last Tuesday of June, so it is our conversation with a long-timer.

0:50

[00 00:31.899 – 00:00:41.939] And that will be with Jimmy D from Long Island, New York, and his sobriety date is July 31st, 1969.

0:59

[00 00:41.939 – 00:00:45.200] So please join us again next week for that one.

1:03

[00 00:45.200 – 00:00:51.039] And Recovery Speakers is, um...

1:06

[00 00:51.039 – 00:00:52.500] Hang on.

1:07

[00 00:52.500 – 00:01:02.520] Uh, this meeting is not affiliated with any 12-step organization, although our goal is to focus on

1:14

[00 01:02.520 – 00:01:05.959] the history of AA and other 12-step fellowships.

1:18

[00 01:05.959 – 00:01:16.120] And, um, recoveryspeakers.com is dedicated to preserving and making the audio history of AA

1:25

[00 01:16.120 – 00:01:20.180] and the 12-step movement available for everyone today and in the future.

1:30

[00 01:20.180 – 00:01:30.200] We share a daily email that features a different speaker talk from the Recovery Speakers audio library, and included in the daily emails are the

1:41

[00 01:30.200 – 00:01:34.400] links to the recordings of this meeting and flyers for upcoming presentations.

1:46

[00 01:34.400 – 00:01:44.400] If you would like to receive our daily email, you can subscribe through the link I shared in the chat a moment ago, or you can,

1:57

[00 01:44.400 – 00:01:50.500] uh, send me an email at info@recoveryspeakers.com and I will get you added to our email list.

2:05

[00 01:50.500 – 00:01:56.439] And Recovery Speakers is an official 501[c][3] public charity.

2:09

[00 01:56.439 – 00:02:01.760] If you are able to, we accept contributions which allow us to continue our work.

2:16

[00 02:01.760 – 00:02:10.379] And I have shared in the chat the link for donations, or you can use the QR code that is up on the screen now.

2:27

[00 02:10.379 – 00:02:13.419] And we really appreciate all of your support.

2:30

[00 02:13.419 – 00:02:21.039] And tonight, um, we should have some time for questions at the end of Mike's presentation.

2:37

[00 02:21.039 – 00:02:27.199] So if you have any questions for Mike, please write them down and be prepared to ask questions at the end of the meeting.

2:48

[00 02:27.199 – 00:02:33.689] I am going to close the chat now, and I will open that back up at the end of the meeting.

2:57

[00 02:33.689 – 00:02:41.060] And now I'm gonna go ahead and just turn it over to Mike for Bill W, A Different Kind of Hero.

3:06

[00 02:41.060 – 00:02:43.300] Hi, Tim.

3:07

[00 02:43.300 – 00:02:44.669] Hi, everybody.

3:08

[00 02:44.669 – 00:02:50.599] Welcome to Recovery Speakers History Workshop night.

3:12

[00 02:50.599 – 00:02:55.580] My name is Mike, and I am an alcoholic.

3:16

[00 02:55.580 – 00:02:58.979] And I share that just so I don't forget it.

3:20

[00 02:58.979 – 00:03:03.659] And, uh, maybe there's some people out there that can identify with that.

3:26

[00 03:03.659 – 00:03:11.580] I want to let you know that, uh, the last two weeks have been incredible.

3:33

[00 03:11.580 – 00:03:21.979] I have, uh, traveled a bunch, and one of the, one of the trips that I took, I got back on Wednesday

3:42

[00 03:21.979 – 00:03:23.139] from London, England.

3:44

[00 03:23.139 – 00:03:30.139] I got to, uh, I got to spend Founders' Day at Winchester Cathedral.

3:49

[00 03:30.139 – 00:03:35.979] And it was such a, such a wonderful experience.

3:53

[00 03:35.979 – 00:03:40.520] And the tour guide that gave us a tour was just perfect.

3:59

[00 03:40.520 – 00:03:48.180] He was probably about 75 years old, and he just was a dapper gentleman, and loved what he was doing.

4:07

[00 03:48.180 – 00:03:54.139] And gave us so much history about the cathedral, and all of the windows, all the...

4:14

[00 03:54.139 – 00:03:59.360] And if you ever have a chance to go, do yourself a favor and go.

4:21

[00 03:59.360 – 00:04:01.860] It is absolutely incredible.

4:23

[00 04:01.860 – 00:04:11.460] Well, the wheels touched down when I flew home to Denver, and, uh, I had a message from Tim.

4:31

[00 04:11.460 – 00:04:21.720] It was, "Uh, who do we got lined up for next Tuesday night?" And, uh, I said, "Well, gee, I don't know."

4:40

[00 04:21.720 – 00:04:32.540] So I called him, and he said, uh, "Do we have anybody for Tuesday?" And I said, "No." But I just got back from England, and,

4:51

[00 04:32.540 – 00:04:42.959] uh, there was a book written by a friend of mine back in 2003, and the book was titled Bill W, A Different Kind of Hero.

5:02

[00 04:42.959 – 00:04:46.379] And the gentleman that wrote this was Tom White.

5:06

[00 04:46.379 – 00:04:48.879] And I don't know if you can see the picture on that.

5:12

[00 04:48.879 – 00:04:52.279] That's a picture of Bill Wilson in London, England.

5:16

[00 04:52.279 – 00:04:56.800] So I had London in my mind and I thought, "Oh, what the heck.

5:22

[00 04:56.800 – 00:05:04.899] Let's do something on Bill W, A Different Kind of Hero." And if you were expecting a book report, I'm sorry to disappoint you.

5:32

[00 05:04.899 – 00:05:06.120] I'm not gonna do that.

5:35

[00 05:06.120 – 00:05:16.220] I'll tell you a little bit about my relationship with Tom White, and Tom worked with, uh, AAW, well it's probably the foundation, when he was working there.

5:47

[00 05:16.220 – 00:05:18.779] And then he worked at the Grapevine as well.

5:51

[00 05:18.779 – 00:05:22.079] He was, uh, very good friends with Bill.

5:54

[00 05:22.079 – 00:05:24.040] As a matter of fact, Bill fired him.

5:58

[00 05:24.040 – 00:05:32.040] And, uh, that was one of the things Tom always liked to make sure that everybody knew, that he was fired by Bill Wilson.

6:08

[00 05:32.040 – 00:05:35.060] Um, and I don't know what he was fired for.

6:13

[00 05:35.060 – 00:05:37.019] I'm sure that the job, it was just time.

6:17

[00 05:37.019 – 00:05:39.459] But Tom was a great guy.

6:20

[00 05:39.459 – 00:05:47.439] And I called him up, uh, because I was getting ready to write a book, and I wanted to write it about Dr.

6:30

[00 05:47.439 – 00:05:48.600] Bob and Bill.

6:31

[00 05:48.600 – 00:05:51.220] And I ultimately ended up doing that.

6:35

[00 05:51.220 – 00:06:00.100] But I said, "Tom," I said, "I find all kinds of information on Bill Wilson, but Dr.

6:42

[00 06:00.100 – 00:06:10.220] Bob was only with us for 15 years, and he didn't really write a whole lot other than a few letters, and there's only a couple of recorded talks from him.

6:55

[00 06:10.220 – 00:06:15.939] And then his story in the Big Book, and mostly hearsay or third-party stories from people that knew him.

7:03

[00 06:15.939 – 00:06:22.050] I, uh, I don't know that, that there's enough material to even include Dr.

7:09

[00 06:22.050 – 00:06:33.310] Bob in this book." And Tom started laughing, and he said, "Oh, Mike," he says, "You just need to start studying." And

7:19

[00 06:33.310 – 00:06:37.800] I thought, "Okay." I didn't know at the time Tom had started writing a book about Dr.

7:26

[00 06:37.800 – 00:06:38.459] Bob.

7:27

[00 06:38.459 – 00:06:42.540] In any case, Tom was-

7:29

[00 06:42.752 – 00:06:48.532] One who gave me the encouragement to do the book, Dr.

7:34

[00 06:48.532 – 00:06:52.532] Bob and Bill W Speak, and for that, I'm grateful.

7:39

[00 06:52.532 – 00:07:01.892] And I've leaned on a lot of these guys over my life because they've all been so kind and so giving and so generous, and I'm so appreciative.

7:51

[00 07:01.892 – 00:07:04.452] And, uh, and those were the authors of that time.

7:55

[00 07:04.452 – 00:07:14.452] And here tonight, I know we have some on here, um, Gary, who has been gracious enough to come on and, and present several times for

8:06

[00 07:14.452 – 00:07:20.712] us on his work with both, uh, Charles Townes and Bobby Burger and Dr.

8:13

[00 07:20.712 – 00:07:21.752] Silkworth.

8:13

[00 07:21.752 – 00:07:27.872] And, you know, and there's been so many people come on and, and, and they're all supportive.

8:21

[00 07:27.872 – 00:07:37.892] And I share that because we're a community of, of amateur historians, for the most part, who love AA and wanna share it

8:31

[00 07:37.892 – 00:07:41.072] with others and hopefully get other people excited about it.

8:35

[00 07:41.072 – 00:07:49.452] So tonight, what I wanna do is share a few things, and it's very-- gonna be very unorganized and unstructured.

8:44

[00 07:49.452 – 00:07:52.592] I'm not gonna bore you with a PowerPoint and all that.

8:49

[00 07:52.592 – 00:08:02.672] I wanna share some of the coolest stuff in the audio library that I've been able to find that is directly related to Bill W.

8:59

[00 08:02.672 – 00:08:10.952] Now, I am working on another presentation that I will put out this fall, but on Bill W.

9:07

[00 08:10.952 – 00:08:16.332] But for tonight, I wanna share with you how amazing this man was.

9:13

[00 08:16.332 – 00:08:21.812] And I'm gonna start by sharing a couple of short audios.

9:18

[00 08:21.812 – 00:08:27.992] Hmm.

9:19

[00 08:27.992 – 00:08:32.512] Just bear with me.

9:21

[00 08:32.512 – 00:08:37.492] Here we go.

9:22

[00 08:37.492 – 00:08:47.572] Uh, the next speaker is going to comment, uh, on some of these things and give us some quite interesting, uh,

9:31

[00 08:47.572 – 00:08:49.262] case histories as he sees it.

9:34

[00 08:49.262 – 00:08:51.492] I'm gonna set this one up a little bit.

9:38

[00 08:51.492 – 00:08:59.042] This is Bill talking in nineteen sixty-six, okay, five years before he passed away.

9:45

[00 08:59.042 – 00:09:02.392] So Bill was an older gentleman at the time.

9:49

[00 09:02.392 – 00:09:11.492] He was speaking to the international doctors, and the topic at the time was niacin vitamin B3.

9:56

[00 09:11.492 – 00:09:16.261] And Bill is gonna talk about some of his experience with this.

10:02

[00 09:16.261 – 00:09:24.172] And I wanna share this 'cause this is typically not what we in AA get to hear about Bill Wilson.

10:10

[00 09:24.172 – 00:09:31.252] He must of necessity remain very anonymous, so, uh, his initials are Bill.

10:16

[00 09:31.252 – 00:09:33.412] Have Bill come up for...

10:18

[00 09:33.412 – 00:09:43.452] I must first assure you that I speak with extreme diffidence, layman that I am, on such

10:26

[00 09:43.452 – 00:09:45.072] highly technical matters.

10:27

[00 09:45.072 – 00:09:55.132] I became interested in this because I had known Abe and Humphrey for about ten years, and just an

10:36

[00 09:55.132 – 00:10:05.172] ordinary amount of compassion, uh, made me increase the interest as the prospect of doing something

10:43

[00 10:05.172 – 00:10:08.252] for serious cases unfolded.

10:45

[00 10:08.252 – 00:10:18.272] Also, the general thesis that, uh, schizy and the underlying situation,

10:50

[00 10:18.272 – 00:10:23.872] uh, might be organic in its causation was fascinating.

10:54

[00 10:23.872 – 00:10:33.972] However, I did nothing about it except, uh, at four years ago, I began to massively use material,

11:02

[00 10:33.972 – 00:10:42.512] and at that time, I was suffering from extreme exhaustion, anxiety seizures.

11:07

[00 10:42.512 – 00:10:50.272] I'd had a history of depression since AA that ran from forty-three to fifty-five.

11:13

[00 10:50.272 – 00:10:52.142] I never surfaced.

11:15

[00 10:52.142 – 00:10:54.212] Two or three years were suicidal.

11:18

[00 10:54.212 – 00:11:02.592] In fifty-five, the depression left and however, this ex- state of exhaustion went on.

11:24

[00 11:02.592 – 00:11:11.552] So I began timidly at first, about four years ago, with a gram a day and a gram and a half a day.

11:34

[00 11:11.552 – 00:11:21.592] About two years ago, I went up to three grams, and then I've had a very marked improvement ever since, although my age

11:43

[00 11:21.592 – 00:11:23.912] bracket is around seventy-one.

11:46

[00 11:23.912 – 00:11:32.391] Uh, Wallace has tried this for a couple of years, and the general tonic effect has been fun.

11:53

[00 11:32.391 – 00:11:35.912] Well, these are rather trivial ob-observations.

11:56

[00 11:35.912 – 00:11:38.772] Now let's come to some that are less trivial.

12:00

[00 11:38.772 – 00:11:48.951] As a kindred sufferer in depression and because of my position in AA,

12:06

[00 11:48.952 – 00:11:55.332] my mail is constantly full of people who say, "I've got this ungodly depression.

12:12

[00 11:55.332 – 00:11:59.132] I read your piece in the grapevine about yours.

12:16

[00 11:59.132 – 00:12:05.092] Uh, I'm ready to jump out the window." And I get slews of this mail.

12:23

[00 12:05.092 – 00:12:15.121] So when it appeared, at least to me about two years ago, that the

12:29

[00 12:15.121 – 00:12:25.612] high DWI test plus the chemical test had begun to uncover a vast underlying area

12:36

[00 12:25.672 – 00:12:31.792] possibly related to schizophrenia and doubtless of a toxic origin.

12:40

[00 12:31.792 – 00:12:42.892] And when Abe made it clear to me that nicotinic acid had been massively given by Kaufmann beginning in forty-one, uh,

12:49

[00 12:42.892 – 00:12:53.272] re-- on, on this, he reported in fifty-five, he was a joint doctor dealing with arthritis largely, and he had observed

12:58

[00 12:53.272 – 00:12:57.792] no untoward side effects, and his people were on it one to four grams a day.

13:05

[00 12:57.792 – 00:13:07.932] Then there was the long experience of Abe and Humphrey so that, uh, you know, a thousand, fifteen hundred

13:14

[00 13:07.932 – 00:13:14.092] people who had had this material in periods of five, ten, fifteen, twenty years.

13:20

[00 13:14.092 – 00:13:19.352] So even to a layman like me, this suggested a degree of safety.

13:25

[00 13:19.352 – 00:13:25.182] And, uh, because it was non-prescription, I felt no hesitancy in trying

13:31

[00 13:25.371 – 00:13:27.291] Bring it on, on some of my friends.

13:35

[00 13:27.291 – 00:13:36.691] Beginning last year, uh, in early spring, a girl came in my office.

13:40

[00 13:36.691 – 00:13:39.111] She'd been sober in AA twenty years.

13:44

[00 13:39.111 – 00:13:44.611] She had never been able to hardly escape from these depressions.

13:48

[00 13:44.611 – 00:13:49.611] She had been extensively analyzed.

13:51

[00 13:49.611 – 00:13:51.291] She had had the work.

13:53

[00 13:51.291 – 00:13:53.371] She tried the medical physical approach.

13:56

[00 13:53.371 – 00:13:55.131] She was a tireless AA worker.

13:59

[00 13:55.131 – 00:14:01.591] And she came in to throw up her hands and tell me that, uh, uh, she might just as well jump out the window.

14:09

[00 14:01.591 – 00:14:02.981] She was suicidal.

14:11

[00 14:02.981 – 00:14:10.331] Well, as an old and dear friend, what was I supposed to do with a crock of niacin sitting in my drawer?

14:21

[00 14:10.331 – 00:14:17.171] So I gave her some, and the depression was wiped out in thirty days.

14:27

[00 14:17.171 – 00:14:19.511] There's been no recurrence, and this is over a year.

14:31

[00 14:19.511 – 00:14:25.451] Then came two more cases, very similar, in rapid succession.

14:36

[00 14:25.451 – 00:14:27.731] Depression's wiped out.

14:37

[00 14:27.731 – 00:14:31.271] In June came a manic depressive case.

14:41

[00 14:31.271 – 00:14:35.371] Those I've cited were the neurotic variety, all on the downside.

14:46

[00 14:35.371 – 00:14:41.031] Uh, this one was suicidal in the depressive phase.

14:50

[00 14:41.031 – 00:14:46.691] He was an old friend, old-timer in AA, man of great influence.

14:55

[00 14:46.691 – 00:14:53.491] And I said to Tom, "Why don't I send you a crock of these vitamins?" Which I did.

15:03

[00 14:53.491 – 00:14:55.671] That was a year ago.

15:05

[00 14:55.671 – 00:15:05.671] He had shot from suicidal depression into a very high manic phase that almost, and th-that almost foreclosed his

15:14

[00 15:05.671 – 00:15:06.831] doing any business.

15:15

[00 15:06.831 – 00:15:16.891] The manic phase subsided, and although his condition has been chronic, this oscillation never

15:21

[00 15:16.891 – 00:15:22.031] normal, he has leveled right out and there's been no recurrence in a year.

15:28

[00 15:22.031 – 00:15:23.931] All right.

15:29

[00 15:23.931 – 00:15:28.171] I, uh, gonna stop sharing for a minute.

15:33

[00 15:28.171 – 00:15:33.550] I don't know about you, but when I listen to Bill W.

15:38

[00 15:33.550 – 00:15:43.581] talk to a group of professionals and put on the hat of the professional and speak as

15:45

[00 15:43.581 – 00:15:51.151] a layman, but yet speak in terminology that they understand clearly as medical professionals.

15:51

[00 15:51.151 – 00:15:59.891] To hear him talk about the tens of thousands of AA members who are unhappy in their sobriety.

15:59

[00 15:59.891 – 00:16:09.891] This girl comes into his office, and what's he to do but to give her some niacin 'cause he found that it worked for him, and it

16:11

[00 16:09.891 – 00:16:10.671] worked for her.

16:12

[00 16:10.671 – 00:16:21.591] Now, of course, these were not things that were sanctioned by AA, and the trustees of Alcoholics Anonymous were not happy with their leader giving out niacin

16:24

[00 16:21.591 – 00:16:22.871] to people.

16:25

[00 16:22.871 – 00:16:32.931] And, uh, of course, Bill was, uh, was constantly being asked to take anything that wasn't AA and, uh, and do it

16:35

[00 16:32.931 – 00:16:35.191] at home, do it elsewhere.

16:37

[00 16:35.191 – 00:16:45.791] He did three reports on niacin, and, uh, two of those reports were done during his life, and the third report was published, uh, uh, the month that Bill died

16:50

[00 16:45.791 – 00:16:46.531] by Lois.

16:51

[00 16:46.531 – 00:16:54.611] And, uh, I believe that we have all three of those reports in PDF.

16:57

[00 16:54.611 – 00:17:05.611] And if you would like to receive those niacin reports, send an email to info@recoveryspeakers,

17:04

[00 17:05.611 – 00:17:15.331] give Tim a couple days to get home from his vacation, and, uh, I will happily send them out to you.

17:13

[00 17:15.331 – 00:17:25.331] You know, I think about Bill because I studied his life and, you know, in studying the guy's life, if I had a way

17:24

[00 17:25.331 – 00:17:29.231] to describe him, it would be a different kind of hero.

17:28

[00 17:29.231 – 00:17:31.711] He wasn't your typical hero.

17:31

[00 17:31.711 – 00:17:34.011] He wasn't a guy looking for a cash grab.

17:35

[00 17:34.011 – 00:17:35.351] He wasn't looking for that.

17:38

[00 17:35.351 – 00:17:41.091] He wasn't looking for his name in the paper, although it ended up there a couple of times.

17:45

[00 17:41.091 – 00:17:44.370] He wasn't looking for the lights and the glamour and the position.

17:51

[00 17:44.370 – 00:17:54.611] Had he been looking for that stuff, AA probably would have failed because there was no room

17:58

[00 17:54.611 – 00:18:04.651] for a power-driving egomaniac, and Bill was not that person, even though sometimes he's described

18:05

[00 18:04.651 – 00:18:05.171] that way.

18:06

[00 18:05.171 – 00:18:14.271] Bill was a very thought-out person, was very, very concerned about the welfare of others.

18:12

[00 18:14.271 – 00:18:22.571] He had such a deep love for people, but his love went beyond that.

18:19

[00 18:22.571 – 00:18:26.631] He had a love for people who were struggling.

18:23

[00 18:26.631 – 00:18:36.931] And, and he gave us an example of that throughout his life and service and the service structure that he created for us so that we could also

18:35

[00 18:36.931 – 00:18:37.571] serve.

18:36

[00 18:37.571 – 00:18:40.571] Incredible, man, what he did.

18:38

[00 18:40.571 – 00:18:43.871] As a matter of fact, I wanna jump back here and just play...

18:44

[00 18:43.871 – 00:18:52.931] I di- I didn't figure a spot to start or a spot to stop, but I pulled a recording out that I think, uh, I think you guys will enjoy.

18:56

[00 18:52.931 – 00:18:59.270] And this, this recording was done in, uh, St.

19:01

[00 18:59.270 – 00:19:03.231] Louis in nineteen fifty-five.

19:03

[00 19:03.231 – 00:19:12.011] And, uh, the title of the talk was done by Bill, and it's titled How We Learn to Serve.

19:11

[00 19:12.011 – 00:19:23.921] Above us, we see a banner, and

19:14

[00 19:23.921 – 00:19:32.691] that banner shows a circle, which is AA circumscribing the world.

19:19

[00 19:32.691 – 00:19:39.031] And within it is a triangle.

19:22

[00 19:39.031 – 00:19:49.111] And the base of the triangle on the recovery on which

19:27

[00 19:49.111 – 00:19:49.971] we stand.

19:28

[00 19:49.971 – 00:19:57.071] The left of the triangle symbolizes our unity.

19:32

[00 19:57.071 – 00:20:04.751] And the right of the triangle, our arm of service.

19:36

[00 20:04.751 – 00:20:07.851] Such is the symbol

19:38

[00 20:08.011 – 00:20:08.421] of A.A.

19:40

[00 20:08.421 – 00:20:13.491] I first saw it in Norway in 1950.

19:43

[00 20:13.491 – 00:20:17.871] But this symbol is not new with us.

19:47

[00 20:17.871 – 00:20:28.251] We have attributed this particular significance to it, but in actuality, its

19:52

[00 20:28.251 – 00:20:30.151] significance is very old.

19:54

[00 20:30.151 – 00:20:40.171] Students of ancient days tell me that

19:58

[00 20:40.171 – 00:20:50.531] centuries ago it was regarded by priests and witch doctors alike as the symbol by which evil

20:05

[00 20:50.531 – 00:20:53.491] spirits could be kept away.

20:08

[00 20:53.491 – 00:21:04.251] And may that symbol ever stand guard over the Society

20:12

[00 21:04.251 – 00:21:05.471] of Alcoholics Anonymous.

20:14

[00 21:05.471 – 00:21:15.831] We have already considered what the essence of,

20:17

[00 21:15.831 – 00:21:17.211] of our recovery has been.

20:20

[00 21:17.211 – 00:21:27.231] We have turned back to pages of history and watched the various channels of

20:26

[00 21:27.231 – 00:21:36.131] influence and of help coming through so many to form this confluence, which is A.A.

20:33

[00 21:36.131 – 00:21:46.211] Last night, we told of our frantic experience in trying to learn

20:38

[00 21:46.211 – 00:21:55.171] to work and to live together and to relate ourselves in harmony with the world about us.

20:46

[00 21:55.171 – 00:22:05.171] Today, our topic has to do with

20:49

[00 22:05.171 – 00:22:12.791] service, with the twelfth step in all its implications.

20:53

[00 22:12.791 – 00:22:17.940] It is not odd to us of A.A.

20:57

[00 22:17.940 – 00:22:20.591] that the A.A.

20:59

[00 22:20.591 – 00:22:31.071] book long ago said, "With us, action is the magic word." So

21:05

[00 22:31.071 – 00:22:41.601] this is our inheritance, the legacy of recovery, of unity, and

21:10

[00 22:41.601 – 00:22:47.111] service, which we now see in their main outlines.

21:14

[00 22:47.111 – 00:22:57.511] I think there has been some confusion as to what the third legacy of service

21:20

[00 22:57.511 – 00:22:59.591] really consists.

21:22

[00 22:59.591 – 00:23:10.231] Of course, its great essential is carrying this message to the other alcoholics.

21:27

[00 23:10.231 – 00:23:16.931] But the moment we begin to carry the message, something else is involved.

21:33

[00 23:16.931 – 00:23:26.951] For example, when it occurred to my dear sponsor, Ebby, that he wanted to come over to

21:41

[00 23:26.951 – 00:23:30.811] Brooklyn and see me, he was at the time in New York.

21:46

[00 23:30.811 – 00:23:39.931] So he had to drop a nickel in the subway turnstile to reach me.

21:52

[00 23:39.931 – 00:23:46.471] Otherwise, his good as, intentions would have been in vain.

21:57

[00 23:46.471 – 00:23:56.651] Something had to be done, something had to be paid to make his twelfth step

22:03

[00 23:56.651 – 00:23:57.890] work possible.

22:04

[00 23:57.890 – 00:24:07.891] So it was in those many meetings in that

22:09

[00 24:07.891 – 00:24:09.311] first summer in Akron.

22:11

[00 24:09.311 – 00:24:13.011] We gathered in Annie Smith's living room.

22:14

[00 24:13.011 – 00:24:18.651] There was shelter over our heads, the hospitality of a home.

22:19

[00 24:18.651 – 00:24:28.390] I have no drunk-- doubt the drunk cigarettes burnt up her carpet, and the coffee bill was pretty high.

22:27

[00 24:28.390 – 00:24:38.631] But that shelter and that coffee, even those cigarettes, if I may say so, no doubt facilitated

22:34

[00 24:38.631 – 00:24:40.591] carrying this message one to another.

22:37

[00 24:40.591 – 00:24:44.171] And I can't forget T.

22:40

[00 24:44.171 – 00:24:52.691] Henry and Clarissa Williams, non-alcoholics, whose home was thrown wide open to us strange people.

22:46

[00 24:52.691 – 00:24:56.851] They were strict church folks.

22:49

[00 24:56.851 – 00:25:02.551] I think from their point of view, we were a little uncouth.

22:54

[00 25:02.551 – 00:25:07.391] Uh, our language was not always of the most desirable.

22:59

[00 25:07.391 – 00:25:10.611] But they forgot all about that in the spirit of the enterprise.

23:04

[00 25:10.611 – 00:25:20.231] And they spent a great deal on food, and they brought in chairs from the local undertaker when the house began to fill up.

23:14

[00 25:20.231 – 00:25:23.511] And I make no doubt we burned their carpet.

23:18

[00 25:23.511 – 00:25:32.691] So there was a cost each time this message was carried.

23:23

[00 25:32.691 – 00:25:39.771] Well, after a while, homes got too small.

23:27

[00 25:39.771 – 00:25:43.211] We had to move into halls.

23:30

[00 25:43.211 – 00:25:53.691] And we can all smile as we think of the great cries that went up from us drunks when landlords

23:39

[00 25:53.691 – 00:25:57.531] actually had the nerve to charge us money for those halls.

23:43

[00 25:57.531 – 00:26:07.611] That to, to be able to listen to Bill in the

23:48

[00 26:07.611 – 00:26:13.851] different phases of his life and the di-different phases of A.A.

23:54

[00 26:13.851 – 00:26:21.871] So that talk was given in July of nineteen fifty-five during the time that Alcoholics Anonymous Came of Age.

24:02

[00 26:21.871 – 00:26:31.891] Bill did talk, did a talk on how we learn to recover, how we learn to serve, and how we learn to stay together,

24:12

[00 26:31.891 – 00:26:36.311] and that was recovery, unity, and service.

24:16

[00 26:36.311 – 00:26:46.731] The, um, book AA Comes of Age goes into a lot of detail about what was going on

24:23

[00 26:46.731 – 00:26:49.271] during the time of that convention.

24:26

[00 26:50.796 – 00:26:55.016] At that time, AA came out with their second edition.

24:31

[00 26:55.016 – 00:27:05.136] The delegates from the conference were all there because they had done a trial, a general service conference from 1951

24:39

[00 27:05.136 – 00:27:06.536] through '55.

24:40

[00 27:06.536 – 00:27:16.276] And Bill Wilson was extremely involved in all aspects of this during that time, even though he was suffering personally.

24:49

[00 27:16.276 – 00:27:26.356] I think Bill was a example, you know, looking at his life and, and, and studying or learning a little bit about some of the, some

25:00

[00 27:26.356 – 00:27:36.376] of the people that we recognize as the great saints have taught that spiritual growth and spiritual

25:07

[00 27:36.376 – 00:27:40.356] progress often requires personal sacrifice.

25:10

[00 27:40.356 – 00:27:48.986] And when I look at what Bill did with our traditions, in that first tradition, our common welfare comes first.

25:18

[00 27:48.986 – 00:27:52.526] Personal recovery depends upon AA unity.

25:21

[00 27:52.526 – 00:28:02.896] This man knew that if he didn't keep the society together, if he did not level the playing field by letting us know that each person

25:32

[00 28:02.896 – 00:28:10.836] is equal, each one has one vote, and all of us have to sacrifice our desire to have our way.

25:41

[00 28:10.836 – 00:28:15.916] So when we go into business meetings, his example is you, you get one vote.

25:48

[00 28:15.916 – 00:28:21.776] You don't bring all your sponsees and, and weigh it in a certain way so you get the outcome that you want.

25:57

[00 28:21.776 – 00:28:26.516] What we need to learn to create unity is personal sacrifice.

26:02

[00 28:26.516 – 00:28:31.816] So we check our ego at the door, and we, uh, and we move through that way.

26:09

[00 28:31.816 – 00:28:40.036] And I believe that all of our traditions require, at some level, personal sacrifice.

26:16

[00 28:40.036 – 00:28:41.476] Give me just one minute.

26:18

[00 28:41.476 – 00:28:45.726] Can you go ask him and let him know that we're doing a meeting?

26:24

[00 28:45.726 – 00:28:51.596] We've got a, somebody playing some loud music out in the hallway though.

26:30

[00 28:51.596 – 00:29:01.626] And, uh, so Bill, you know, what, what I wanna demonstrate and get and, and communicate is that Bill was, was always thinking about

26:40

[00 29:01.626 – 00:29:02.396] the future.

26:42

[00 29:02.396 – 00:29:08.796] He was always planning for the next thing and how he could help, and how he could get involved.

26:50

[00 29:08.796 – 00:29:15.256] And some of, some of the work that he did with organizations outside of AA.

26:56

[00 29:15.256 – 00:29:21.365] There was Schizophrenia Anony- Anonymous, and he worked with those folks up in Saskatchewan.

27:03

[00 29:21.365 – 00:29:26.176] There was a Gamblers Anonymous, and he worked with the people in California.

27:08

[00 29:26.176 – 00:29:33.876] There were Narcotics Anonymous both in New York and California, and Bill rolled up his sleeves and did what he could to help them.

27:19

[00 29:33.876 – 00:29:39.696] And through all of it, Bill said, "You can take anything from us that you want.

27:26

[00 29:39.696 – 00:29:44.016] Our traditions, our steps, all of it.

27:29

[00 29:44.016 – 00:29:47.026] Just don't take our name." Right.

27:32

[00 29:47.026 – 00:29:50.516] Bill was very protective about the name Alcoholics Anonymous.

27:36

[00 29:50.516 – 00:29:56.596] You know, sometimes we struggle with singleness of purpose, but he didn't struggle with singleness of purpose.

27:43

[00 29:56.596 – 00:30:05.816] Bill wanted the principles of Alcoholics Anonymous to be used to help people with whatever their condition was.

27:51

[00 30:05.816 – 00:30:13.865] He just knew that we as a society of alcoholics in recovery could not be the channel by which these people are served.

28:01

[00 30:13.865 – 00:30:23.936] We were, we are set up to serve what we know, and that is to help a

28:08

[00 30:23.936 – 00:30:26.476] new person find recovery.

28:10

[00 30:26.476 – 00:30:27.776] It's real simple.

28:12

[00 30:27.776 – 00:30:37.896] You know, and that's why a, a AA person with, uh, uh, sobriety and with a message that has depth and weight and understanding

28:22

[00 30:37.896 – 00:30:46.636] can communicate to an alcoholic who's having a rough time in just a few minutes what the medical professionals have failed to do for years.

28:33

[00 30:46.636 – 00:30:49.756] Bill was a special man.

28:35

[00 30:49.756 – 00:30:53.216] I don't think he was that much different than any of us.

28:41

[00 30:53.216 – 00:30:59.836] He had a sense of humor and, you know, he had feelings and, you know, he was sensitive.

28:49

[00 30:59.836 – 00:31:00.676] This was a...

28:50

[00 31:00.676 – 00:31:10.576] So Bill was being asked to, to talk a lot in the early days, and, uh, it wasn't as easy to get around in the '40s as it was in the '60s.

29:05

[00 31:10.576 – 00:31:11.196] Right?

29:05

[00 31:11.196 – 00:31:15.116] So in the '40s, you know, there were limited trips that he could do.

29:12

[00 31:15.116 – 00:31:21.176] One of the first recorded talks that Bill did was on a record album, and it was sent out by AA.

29:21

[00 31:21.176 – 00:31:31.476] When people would request to have him come and speak, the staff at the office would send a letter letting them know that Bill was busy, and unfortunately he and Lois

29:34

[00 31:31.476 – 00:31:32.856] or he wasn't able to do it.

29:38

[00 31:32.856 – 00:31:37.436] However, they would send this recording that they could play for the conference.

29:43

[00 31:37.436 – 00:31:39.696] I'm gonna go ahead and play that for you.

29:47

[00 31:39.696 – 00:31:45.276] There are two ways of looking at Alcoholics Anonymous.

29:52

[00 31:45.276 – 00:31:54.756] To our friends seated here among us, Alcoholics Anonymous doubtless seems a huge and spectacular success.

29:59

[00 31:54.756 – 00:32:02.596] They may be thinking of us as a people who have won brilliant personal victories by fighting great odds.

30:07

[00 32:02.596 – 00:32:12.696] But every AA in this audience knows his friends give him too much credit, that in actuality his recovery did

30:15

[00 32:12.696 – 00:32:14.196] not happen that way at all.

30:18

[00 32:14.196 – 00:32:24.436] Each in his heart knows that he became too weak to fight alone, that he had to confess his life had become unmanageable

30:28

[00 32:24.436 – 00:32:26.536] and therefore unbearable.

30:30

[00 32:26.536 – 00:32:36.656] He remembers how his power of will to conquer alcohol was crushed, how he finally saw he could never win through

30:39

[00 32:36.656 – 00:32:37.856] under his own strength.

30:41

[00 32:37.856 – 00:32:47.856] Nevertheless, he will tell you that this bitter admission, the hardest a human being can make, was the

30:49

[00 32:47.856 – 00:32:55.836] beginning of his new life, that new life of which this meeting is such a glowing and grateful testimony.

30:57

[00 32:55.836 – 00:33:01.276] Hence, no AA meeting can ever be a boast of personal victory.

31:02

[00 33:01.276 – 00:33:11.276] It is instead our humble demonstration of that saving grace which all of us have found

31:09

[00 33:11.276 – 00:33:15.896] in a simple reliance on a Power greater than ourselves.

31:14

[00 33:15.896 – 00:33:23.296] Short but powerful message.

31:16

[00 33:23.296 – 00:33:33.126] It was almost as if he was giving, uh, the story that Ebby came to him in the hospital on day three and-

31:26

[00 33:33.316 – 00:33:37.636] Bill said he woke up and he looked in the, the doorway and there was Ebby.

31:33

[00 33:37.636 – 00:33:43.116] And he said he had this thought, "Why isn't he out looking for a job?" Because everybody was broke.

31:41

[00 33:43.116 – 00:33:53.136] And then he invited Ebby in, and he said, "Ebby, what was that simple formula that you shared with me at my house on Clinton Street just

31:52

[00 33:53.136 – 00:34:01.656] a few weeks ago?" And, uh, and Ebby said, "Bill, you gotta be licked." And I think that's what he was saying in the recording, "We gotta be done," okay?

32:05

[00 34:01.656 – 00:34:05.656] "You gotta believe in some sort of power greater than yourself.

32:10

[00 34:05.656 – 00:34:10.776] Call it God, try it as an experiment." This is what Bill said Ebby had said to him.

32:18

[00 34:10.776 – 00:34:16.856] And he said, "Put down your life story and be willing to have a confession and share that with another person.

32:27

[00 34:16.856 – 00:34:20.856] And then, Bill, we pay restitution for the harms done.

32:31

[00 34:20.856 – 00:34:30.916] And then we try to carry this message to the next person." And, uh, that's

32:38

[00 34:30.916 – 00:34:32.096] the message of AA.

32:40

[00 34:32.096 – 00:34:42.416] That's the message Bill put out on record that he wanted everybody to hear, that we've gotta be deflated, we've gotta come together,

32:50

[00 34:42.416 – 00:34:51.216] we have to have a power greater than ourselves, and we've gotta be willing to pay restitution for the harms we've done and go out and carry this message of hope to others.

33:04

[00 34:51.216 – 00:34:57.996] Now, Ebby put his arm around him on that first night, Bill said, and he walked him to the subway.

33:13

[00 34:57.996 – 00:35:09.276] Now, Ebby said this in one of his talks, and Ebby said Bill looked at me and said, "I don't know what you got, kid, but I want it." That's

33:25

[00 35:09.276 – 00:35:13.956] the power of one alcoholic talking to another.

33:29

[00 35:13.956 – 00:35:19.136] There is no connection deeper than that connection.

33:33

[00 35:19.136 – 00:35:24.076] And Bill had connections with people, and people loved this guy.

33:38

[00 35:24.076 – 00:35:32.916] Loved him, not so much because he was just the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, but for their own lives, the gratitude.

33:47

[00 35:32.916 – 00:35:37.216] There was a couple in San Francisco, Fred and Amy Katz.

33:52

[00 35:37.216 – 00:35:47.736] And, uh, my understanding, done a little bit of background, uh, research, and Amy was, uh, the first, um, secretary

34:00

[00 35:47.736 – 00:35:52.016] to have the phones at the general service office in San Francisco.

34:06

[00 35:52.016 – 00:35:57.276] And, uh, Bill had gone up there to visit and become friends with these people.

34:12

[00 35:57.276 – 00:36:00.116] And you know, they corresponded and wrote letters back and forth.

34:17

[00 36:00.116 – 00:36:08.856] And, uh, for Christmas one year, Fred and Amy sent, uh, Bill a record.

34:23

[00 36:08.856 – 00:36:12.426] They could, they could cut their own, like, vinyl records.

34:28

[00 36:12.426 – 00:36:13.816] These are actually metal.

34:30

[00 36:13.816 – 00:36:21.976] But, um, this is the raw recording of a Christmas card that was sent to Bill and Lois.

34:38

[00 36:21.976 – 00:36:26.776] I'm gonna just let you hear it.

34:41

[00 36:26.776 – 00:36:37.076] Bill, I say again advisedly because the memory of your San Francisco visit is still so vivid that it seems as if it were just a short time ago

34:53

[00 36:37.076 – 00:36:38.156] when we met.

34:55

[00 36:38.156 – 00:36:45.836] I'll never forget the warmth and courage you both gave me that day.

35:01

[00 36:45.836 – 00:36:57.016] I'd like to express my gratitude in very elegant phrases, but

35:06

[00 36:57.016 – 00:37:04.156] I'm afraid I'd get all maudlin and weepy, and I'd ruin the record, and Fred wouldn't like that.

35:13

[00 37:04.156 – 00:37:07.576] So I'll just say thank you.

35:16

[00 37:07.576 – 00:37:09.716] Thank you for everything.

35:18

[00 37:09.716 – 00:37:18.476] I've, I've never forgotten the boomerang story Bill told when he was here the first time.

35:25

[00 37:18.476 – 00:37:28.496] And I hope that the new AA boomerang you fashioned on the 12th step will come back to you both

35:34

[00 37:28.496 – 00:37:38.536] laden with serenity and happiness and health every 24 hours of 1949 and every

35:39

[00 37:38.536 – 00:37:40.736] year to come.

35:41

[00 37:40.736 – 00:37:46.696] Have a very merry Christmas, and God willing, we'll meet soon again.

35:46

[00 37:46.696 – 00:37:49.216] Love, Amy Katz.

35:48

[00 37:49.216 – 00:37:59.696] Like all true alkies, I dearly love the sound of my own voice, accent

35:54

[00 37:59.696 – 00:38:00.076] and all.

35:55

[00 38:00.076 – 00:38:09.796] And so this year, I'm sending you my greetings by transcription i- instead of mailing you the usual Christmas card.

36:04

[00 38:09.796 – 00:38:19.796] You know, Bill, it is funny how in AA each year seems to be just a little better than the year that has gone

36:14

[00 38:19.796 – 00:38:20.236] before.

36:15

[00 38:20.236 – 00:38:28.216] And so at this season, naturally, my thoughts turn to gratitude.

36:20

[00 38:28.216 – 00:38:33.096] Gratitude, first of all, of course, for my sobriety.

36:24

[00 38:33.096 – 00:38:41.136] Gratitude that you, Bill, with Lois at your side, live to show us the way.

36:31

[00 38:41.136 – 00:38:49.955] And this year's special gratitude for the splendid recovery that my dear wife Amy is making from her illness.

36:39

[00 38:49.955 – 00:39:00.176] It is difficult to put in words just what you're thinking, so

36:44

[00 39:00.176 – 00:39:03.016] let me say it very simply to you.

36:48

[00 39:03.016 – 00:39:06.996] You two will always live in my heart.

36:52

[00 39:06.996 – 00:39:14.496] And so after wishing you a merry Christmas and a Happy New Year...

36:58

[00 39:14.496 – 00:39:18.776] Say, Bill, did you get that bell?

37:01

[00 39:18.776 – 00:39:20.356] That wasn't Santa Claus.

37:03

[00 39:20.356 – 00:39:22.256] That's Amy making with the sound effects.

37:06

[00 39:22.256 – 00:39:32.895] Well, after wishing you a merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, I should like to wind this up

37:14

[00 39:32.936 – 00:39:34.636] with my favorite quotation.

37:16

[00 39:34.636 – 00:39:39.636] "May the road rise up to meet you.

37:20

[00 39:39.636 – 00:39:43.456] May the wind be always at your back.

37:24

[00 39:43.456 – 00:39:53.096] And may God hold you in the hollow of His hand." Your friend, Fred Katz.

37:30

[00 39:53.096 – 00:40:03.296] I just think communications back then,

37:33

[00 40:03.976 – 00:40:11.456] to be able to share, uh, a record like that, um, how wonderful.

37:39

[00 40:11.456 – 00:40:12.056] You know?

37:40

[00 40:12.056 – 00:40:15.776] How deeply these people and so many others-

37:44

[00 40:15.975 – 00:40:25.975] felt about Bill and Lois and the contribution that Bill and Lois made to their lives and to the lives of their families and to the lives of

37:56

[00 40:25.975 – 00:40:26.535] all of us.

37:58

[00 40:26.535 – 00:40:33.655] And every now and then, I think it's good for us to reflect on someone, not so much to make them out to be a hero.

38:09

[00 40:33.655 – 00:40:36.015] That's not my goal tonight at all.

38:12

[00 40:36.015 – 00:40:46.015] My goal tonight is to talk about a guy who contributed his life, a life of service, so others could have sobriety,

38:21

[00 40:46.015 – 00:40:48.174] and they could, too, have a life of service.

38:26

[00 40:48.174 – 00:40:50.555] It's incredible how this has worked.

38:28

[00 40:50.555 – 00:40:56.015] Um, truly, you know, people who know me know I talk a lot about the golden thread.

38:36

[00 40:56.015 – 00:41:02.155] And, uh, if you can't see a golden thread being pulled through Alcoholics Anonymous, you're blind.

38:43

[00 41:02.155 – 00:41:03.795] It's incredible.

38:44

[00 41:03.795 – 00:41:08.975] Just if things would've happened a little bit differently, how things could've been different.

38:50

[00 41:08.975 – 00:41:11.575] But no, they didn't happen that way.

38:53

[00 41:11.575 – 00:41:15.935] They happened the way that they happened so that we could have what we have.

39:00

[00 41:15.935 – 00:41:20.474] I think Bill...

39:02

[00 41:20.474 – 00:41:26.475] I wanna play one more thing for you, and then I, and then I'm gonna close up my playing.

39:10

[00 41:26.475 – 00:41:27.495] But there's a...

39:12

[00 41:27.495 – 00:41:37.495] When we, uh, originally got the first library for recovery speakers, there were some wire recordings

39:19

[00 41:37.495 – 00:41:42.995] and some things that belonged to Bill W., like the record that you just heard.

39:25

[00 41:42.995 – 00:41:51.855] So to have, to have items that were personal to Bill is, you know, the thrill of my life, but to be able to share them is also incredible.

39:37

[00 41:51.855 – 00:41:55.375] Um, this recording I've never played for anybody.

39:41

[00 41:55.375 – 00:41:58.855] And, uh, it's off of one of the wires.

39:45

[00 41:58.855 – 00:42:04.975] And I'm just gonna play a couple of minutes of the, uh...

39:51

[00 42:04.975 – 00:42:07.695] I don't even know what you're gonna hear.

39:54

[00 42:07.695 – 00:42:13.355] So these were Australian speakers on a wire that was sent to Bill.

40:00

[00 42:13.355 – 00:42:23.355] I'm going to ask Oz to say a few words to you about that philosophy of life known as the twenty-four-hour program

40:10

[00 42:23.355 – 00:42:32.915] and also a few words about the AA prayer, which is a very remarkable one and which I'm sure you will find perhaps very helpful for yourselves.

40:21

[00 42:32.915 – 00:42:36.155] But Oz, will you just come and tell them about the twenty-four-hour program?

40:27

[00 42:36.155 – 00:42:37.774] Thank you, Sted.

40:28

[00 42:37.774 – 00:42:47.775] I often think, you know, that perhaps the average man in the street who can't quite understand how an alcoholic can drink and

40:38

[00 42:47.775 – 00:42:57.815] jeopardize everything like this, uh, they, they, I think they must look upon sometimes AA, they might, might think, "Well, they're a lot of screwballs, fanatics, or rat bags or something.

40:51

[00 42:57.815 – 00:43:02.135] I don't know." But the important thing is to remember that we have recovered.

40:58

[00 43:02.135 – 00:43:08.755] Now, when a man first comes to AA, and we say to him, try and explain his disease to him in terms of allergy.

41:08

[00 43:08.755 – 00:43:11.115] You know, some people can't eat tomatoes.

41:11

[00 43:11.115 – 00:43:12.275] They come out in a rash.

41:14

[00 43:12.275 – 00:43:15.155] We have this physical allergy for alcohol.

41:17

[00 43:15.155 – 00:43:25.795] And so when we tell him that for him, his social drinking days are over, that he can never take one drink again, that one drink is too many

41:30

[00 43:25.795 – 00:43:35.815] and a hundred is not enough, he's apt to say to us, "Do you mean to tell me that never again, as long as I can, as I live, can I take one drink, not even a glass

41:46

[00 43:35.815 – 00:43:38.735] of beer?" The answer to that one is an emphatic no.

41:51

[00 43:38.735 – 00:43:41.175] He can never take one drink again.

41:54

[00 43:41.175 – 00:43:43.835] He'll say, "What's gonna happen to me at Christmastime?

41:58

[00 43:43.835 – 00:43:47.115] I've gotta go to a, gotta go to a, a reunion.

42:03

[00 43:47.115 – 00:43:48.655] I've gotta go to a dinner.

42:06

[00 43:48.655 – 00:43:58.755] Sure, I, you can, you can do something about it, and let me have a glass of beer." The answer is still no because, as I tried to explain earlier,

42:19

[00 43:58.755 – 00:44:02.755] if I have one drink now, I'm gone again, and I've run out of chances.

42:25

[00 44:02.755 – 00:44:04.335] There are no more chances for me.

42:29

[00 44:04.335 – 00:44:06.295] I have this allergy.

42:31

[00 44:06.295 – 00:44:08.115] I have this mental thing.

42:33

[00 44:08.115 – 00:44:10.315] I have this spiritual disease.

42:36

[00 44:10.315 – 00:44:11.895] It's three-pronged disease.

42:37

[00 44:11.895 – 00:44:15.275] And so the man is apt to be very discouraged.

42:42

[00 44:15.275 – 00:44:20.195] So we say to him, we break it up for him, "Look, don't look at it like that, old man.

42:50

[00 44:20.195 – 00:44:22.575] Don't look about that f-funeral you have to go to.

42:55

[00 44:22.575 – 00:44:27.315] Don't look at a funeral." No, the alcoholic is a genius at finding excuses to drink.

43:02

[00 44:27.315 – 00:44:30.655] I mean, he gets drunk at the very time that he should stay sober.

43:08

[00 44:30.655 – 00:44:33.635] So he projects his mind forward.

43:11

[00 44:33.635 – 00:44:36.295] He thinks, "Christmastime, what am I gonna do?

43:15

[00 44:36.295 – 00:44:46.344] That digger's dinner, what am I gonna do?" So we say to him, "How's about trying to stay sober one day at a time?" Now,

43:25

[00 44:46.344 – 00:44:49.975] the worst of us have been able to stay sober for one day.

43:31

[00 44:49.975 – 00:44:52.615] The very worst of us can stay sober for one day.

43:36

[00 44:52.615 – 00:44:57.315] So we say to him, "Look, today is Wednesday, Thursday.

43:41

[00 44:57.315 – 00:45:06.475] Just get up in the morning and say to yourself, 'Well, I've only gotta go one day without a drink anyhow.'" And so pretty soon we find that these days we live one day at a time.

43:57

[00 45:06.475 – 00:45:09.075] Virtually, we're wrapped up in a day at a time.

44:01

[00 45:09.075 – 00:45:15.815] We don't think about the worries and the, the, the problems that we have to face next week, next month.

44:10

[00 45:15.815 – 00:45:16.955] They're not here yet.

44:12

[00 45:16.955 – 00:45:20.435] We may not even live to see them.

44:15

[00 45:20.435 – 00:45:25.495] Certain it is that we can stay sober for one day, so we say to the man, "Try our day-to-day program.

44:25

[00 45:25.495 – 00:45:35.275] Just try to be sober one day at a time." And so pretty soon the weeks grow into months, and the months grow into years of sober, happy living.

44:37

[00 45:35.275 – 00:45:40.175] Now, we adopt this day-to-day program in everything that we do.

44:42

[00 45:40.175 – 00:45:42.475] We live a day-to-day program.

44:44

[00 45:42.475 – 00:45:52.635] One of the members in my own group, Burwood Group, said to me, he said, "That's a Blackfella's philosophy." He said, "I'm a businessman." He said, "How

44:56

[00 45:52.635 – 00:46:01.015] can I just live one day at a time?" He said, "I've gotta plan my work for the, for the future." He said, "And you're trying to tell me to live one day at a time.

45:11

[00 46:01.015 – 00:46:05.315] Nevermind about tom-tomorrow's worries." That's exactly what we are trying to say.

45:16

[00 46:05.315 – 00:46:09.875] The difference is this: We alcoholics get tensions, conflict within us.

45:21

[00 46:09.875 – 00:46:15.635] Immediately we start to think about problems in the future which we can't at this moment see the answer.

45:29

[00 46:15.635 – 00:46:25.635] So the point is this: Whenever we as alcoholics start to take anxious thought for tomorrow, then we let go, and we say

45:39

[00 46:25.635 – 00:46:27.815] sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

45:43

[00 46:27.815 – 00:46:32.035] We also say today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday.

45:48

[00 46:32.035 – 00:46:35.895] Now, you people here in this audience tonight perhaps are not alcoholics.

45:53

[00 46:35.895 – 00:46:37.575] You may be good social drinkers.

45:56

[00 46:37.575 – 00:46:41.595] You may be able to go down to the pub and see the boys and have a couple of beers, and that's that.

46:06

[00 46:41.595 – 00:46:43.715] Perhaps I'd like to be like that too.

46:10

[00 46:43.715 – 00:46:45.875] That doesn't make any difference.

46:12

[00 46:45.875 – 00:46:47.015] You may not be alcoholics.

46:15

[00 46:47.015 – 00:46:48.595] You don't pay the price that we do.

46:18

[00 46:48.595 – 00:46:52.855] But might I suggest that this day-to-day program brings a lot of happiness.

46:24

[00 46:52.855 – 00:46:58.445] When you find yourself taking anxious thought for tomorrow about those unanswered problems

46:30

[00 46:58.655 – 00:47:00.295] The things that you don't know about yet.

46:34

[00 47:00.295 – 00:47:05.275] How's about letting go and living one day at a time like the old drunks do?

46:41

[00 47:05.275 – 00:47:08.935] It's helped us, it might be able to help you.

46:45

[00 47:08.935 – 00:47:11.015] So don't take anxious thought for tomorrow.

46:48

[00 47:11.015 – 00:47:13.115] Live for one day at a time.

46:52

[00 47:13.115 – 00:47:22.975] Well, I mean, I just pulled that recording out and thought we'd listen to a couple minutes of it.

47:00

[00 47:22.975 – 00:47:31.854] It fit right in beautifully with everything I'm talking about, and with Bill Wilson's life, and the fact that these guys sent him that recording.

47:11

[00 47:31.854 – 00:47:40.515] Now, we'll have to listen to the rest of the recording later tonight, and, uh, I'll actually try to get that one up on, uh, Recovery Speakers.

47:22

[00 47:40.515 – 00:47:41.995] It's not there right now.

47:25

[00 47:41.995 – 00:47:51.995] Um, so I don't want to make too big of a deal out of anything that's not worth making

47:33

[00 47:51.995 – 00:47:56.275] a big deal, but AA just celebrated 90 years.

47:37

[00 47:56.275 – 00:48:02.665] 90 years of miracles, all because Ebby went to Bill, and Bill went to Dr.

47:43

[00 48:02.665 – 00:48:04.635] Bob, and Dr.

47:44

[00 48:04.635 – 00:48:07.735] Bob and Bill went to Bill D, and Dr.

47:48

[00 48:07.735 – 00:48:09.435] Bob and Bill and...

47:51

[00 48:09.435 – 00:48:14.215] went on, and they talked to the next drunk.

47:55

[00 48:14.215 – 00:48:22.355] And they did everything they could to keep AA together so that it would be here for us and for our children and our grandchildren.

48:05

[00 48:22.355 – 00:48:31.185] Certainly, I hope that we can continue to preserve the history of Alcoholics Anonymous.

48:11

[00 48:31.185 – 00:48:32.914] Make it fun.

48:13

[00 48:32.914 – 00:48:35.355] These guys were having a blast, you know?

48:17

[00 48:35.355 – 00:48:37.895] W- this wasn't all work.

48:19

[00 48:37.895 – 00:48:39.575] They were having fun.

48:21

[00 48:39.575 – 00:48:49.595] Now, there were crisises that they dealt with, but, you know, just growing up in an AA home, I, I, I've seen so much when I was a kid that I'm sure was going on in

48:37

[00 48:49.595 – 00:48:50.515] other homes.

48:38

[00 48:50.515 – 00:48:52.655] But Dr.

48:39

[00 48:52.655 – 00:49:01.755] Bob became a very important figure in Bill's life after they met on May 12th of 1935.

48:46

[00 49:01.755 – 00:49:06.275] I think Bill looked at Bob as a father figure.

48:51

[00 49:06.275 – 00:49:16.075] He relied on him for his steady wisdom and his deep thought and his love and his compassion.

48:58

[00 49:16.075 – 00:49:26.135] And Bill had tremendous respect for Bob, and there was very little that Bill did without

49:05

[00 49:26.135 – 00:49:27.875] first running it by Dr.

49:08

[00 49:27.875 – 00:49:28.675] Bob.

49:09

[00 49:28.675 – 00:49:35.314] And here was a message that Bill sent to Bob in 1947.

49:14

[00 49:35.314 – 00:49:40.495] Now, I'm gonna play this as the final piece for tonight's presentation.

49:19

[00 49:40.495 – 00:49:43.375] Hello, Anne and Bob.

49:21

[00 49:43.375 – 00:49:47.315] Isn't this a great gadget that we have to talk through?

49:26

[00 49:47.315 – 00:49:54.595] It was mighty good to hear from George how much better you both are.

49:32

[00 49:54.595 – 00:50:01.735] You have no idea how terrifically concerned so many of us have been.

49:38

[00 50:01.735 – 00:50:06.075] Now that the worst is over, we can all breathe better.

49:43

[00 50:06.075 – 00:50:16.155] I've just been having a long talk with George about the state of AA affairs out through the country, and he

49:52

[00 50:16.155 – 00:50:26.455] has sharpened up to me, as he doubtless did to you, the tremendous necessity of getting some sort of council organized

50:01

[00 50:26.455 – 00:50:29.535] which can relate the foundation to the AA groups.

50:05

[00 50:29.535 – 00:50:39.675] I also went over the internal situation here with George, and on the whole, he is inclined to think that the changes suggested

50:15

[00 50:39.675 – 00:50:49.755] in the reorganization plan are really necessary for us here in New York before we actually start the formation of a council.

50:24

[00 50:49.755 – 00:50:59.775] We'd awfully much like to know if you want to come down to Bedford Hills sooner than the fall, but I suppose there is

50:35

[00 50:59.775 – 00:51:02.135] small use in begging you.

50:37

[00 51:02.135 – 00:51:10.215] You know, I still feel very awkward and hard-put to find words to talk into this microphone.

50:44

[00 51:10.215 – 00:51:14.035] As you see, I have a good deal of mic fright.

50:49

[00 51:14.035 – 00:51:18.695] Even now, I am beginning to get more and more confused.

50:54

[00 51:18.695 – 00:51:26.535] In fact, my face is getting quite red, for you know I am not one who usually lacks words.

51:03

[00 51:26.535 – 00:51:33.415] Lois and I hope you both will surely get well and strong, and that very, very fast.

51:10

[00 51:33.415 – 00:51:41.135] We think of you so very, very much, dear people, and look forward to the moment when we can see her.

51:19

[00 51:41.135 – 00:51:42.395] See you.

51:20

[00 51:42.395 – 00:51:44.415] I've still got the mic fright.

51:23

[00 51:44.415 – 00:51:47.335] This is your announcer cutting in.

51:26

[00 51:47.335 – 00:51:51.075] We're now going to have a violin solo by Bill, the virtuoso.

51:31

[00 51:51.075 – 00:52:57.035] So

51:32

[00 52:57.035 – 00:52:57.895] long, dear people.

51:34

[00 52:57.895 – 00:53:07.335] I can't think of any better way to close tonight's presentation than with Bill saying, "Good night, dear people.

51:42

[00 53:07.335 – 00:53:11.015] We'll see you soon." Thanks for joining us tonight.

51:46

[00 53:11.015 – 00:53:17.195] Thanks so much, Mike, and thank you everyone for being here.

51:51

[00 53:17.195 – 00:53:19.955] And now we have some time for questions.

51:55

[00 53:19.955 – 00:53:25.795] If anyone has a question for Mike, please raise your hand and I will call on you to ask Mike.

52:03

[00 53:25.795 – 00:53:27.675] First up is Chad.

52:05

[00 53:27.675 – 00:53:28.435] You can unmute.

52:07

[00 53:28.435 – 00:53:30.735] Thanks, Tim.

52:08

[00 53:30.735 – 00:53:31.795] Chad, alcoholic.

52:10

[00 53:31.795 – 00:53:33.295] Grateful to be here with all of you.

52:13

[00 53:33.295 – 00:53:41.125] Thanks so much, Mike, and, uh, for me it was golden thread or God incidents or synchronicity that, uh, you played How We-

52:23

[00 53:41.260 – 00:53:50.280] Learn to serve, 'cause that, uh, convention happened a few miles from where I am, and I've been listening to that talk kind of on repeat for, for like a couple of years.

52:37

[00 53:50.280 – 00:53:52.260] And, uh, if I...

52:39

[00 53:52.260 – 00:53:55.380] The, the way it ends for me is wonderfully helpful.

52:44

[00 53:55.380 – 00:54:05.500] If I remember right, Bill says something like, "I feel now that the future of Alcoholics Anonymous is utterly safe even from me." And, uh, the,

52:55

[00 54:05.500 – 00:54:05.800] uh...

52:56

[00 54:05.800 – 00:54:16.800] Talking about him not, not being an egotistical, you know, not being a power driver, um, it,

53:03

[00 54:16.800 – 00:54:26.320] it seems like he talked about his tendency to, I mean, to like to try to be the number one man and things like that.

53:14

[00 54:26.320 – 00:54:36.520] And, uh, I'm wondering if, if you find that he, that that was something that had been removed from him, or something that he was able to kind of navigate

53:26

[00 54:36.520 – 00:54:40.980] around or, or, uh, you know, how he was able to act with humility.

53:33

[00 54:40.980 – 00:54:43.580] That's a great question.

53:35

[00 54:43.580 – 00:54:46.680] And, uh, and thanks, Chad.

53:37

[00 54:46.680 – 00:54:56.860] And, uh, you know, thanks for, for being a constant visitor to Recovery Speakers and for presenting for us, and all that you do.

53:47

[00 54:56.860 – 00:55:07.460] Um, yeah, I think that, I think in Bill's early days, like we closed with him playing the violin,

53:56

[00 55:07.460 – 00:55:09.980] um, he was self-taught.

53:58

[00 55:09.980 – 00:55:13.440] He became the first chair at school.

54:01

[00 55:13.440 – 00:55:16.720] He became the pitcher of the baseball team.

54:05

[00 55:16.720 – 00:55:19.880] He became a leader in the debate society.

54:08

[00 55:19.880 – 00:55:30.080] I mean, Bill, he was a, a, he was a competitive individual who

54:14

[00 55:30.080 – 00:55:37.740] wanted to be in first place, who saw the benefits of winning the race, if you will.

54:22

[00 55:37.740 – 00:55:48.600] But then, I believe as he got sober, he was surrounded by other people who had the same tendencies

54:30

[00 55:48.600 – 00:55:49.759] as he had.

54:31

[00 55:49.759 – 00:55:53.720] Power drivers, big dreamers, big thinkers.

54:34

[00 55:53.720 – 00:56:01.740] One comes to mind is, uh, he worked with him and helped him with the Big Book, one of Bill's first sponsees, Hank Parkhurst.

54:45

[00 56:01.740 – 00:56:11.780] And, uh, and I often think Bill liked to deflect some of the attention off of other people by

54:53

[00 56:11.780 – 00:56:13.160] putting it on himself.

54:55

[00 56:13.160 – 00:56:23.160] And in one talk he talks about him being a power driver, but he's talking about this red, red-haired guy, Hank, who went into the

55:06

[00 56:23.160 – 00:56:33.440] pharmacy and grabbed some prescription pads and wrote $25 par value, and came up with an idea of selling these stock certificates to people

55:15

[00 56:33.440 – 00:56:35.500] on a book that hadn't been written yet.

55:19

[00 56:35.500 – 00:56:45.640] Now, I look at what Hank was able to do, and Hank was a power driver,

55:26

[00 56:45.640 – 00:56:47.560] without question.

55:27

[00 56:47.560 – 00:56:58.220] I think Bill Wilson was already developing some tremendous humility about the place that he was at in

55:35

[00 56:58.220 – 00:56:58.700] his life.

55:36

[00 56:58.700 – 00:57:08.900] And the reason that I say that, and, and the evidence that I'll show to, to back that up is I think it was year two he put in the 12 and 12

55:50

[00 57:08.900 – 00:57:18.900] when Charles Townes offered him a lucrative position at the hospital, and Bill rode the subway home and said on the ride home on the subway

56:01

[00 57:18.900 – 00:57:20.400] he had this thought.

56:03

[00 57:20.400 – 00:57:25.400] It was biblical, that, that the laborer is worthy of their hire.

56:08

[00 57:25.400 – 00:57:32.430] And he came home and shared this great news with Lois, that he was gonna have a job and they were gonna take this to Townes.

56:19

[00 57:32.430 – 00:57:33.490] And they were...

56:21

[00 57:33.490 – 00:57:37.440] And Bill said Lois wasn't too happy with him.

56:25

[00 57:37.440 – 00:57:40.759] She didn't really see it the same way.

56:29

[00 57:40.759 – 00:57:49.780] And then that night he said at their meeting, he shared this with the group, and I can see Bill with his enthusiasm sharing it with his group.

56:41

[00 57:49.780 – 00:57:59.820] And he said, and the group's comments were, "Bill, aren't you the same person who keeps telling us

56:48

[00 57:59.820 – 00:58:04.760] that the good is sometimes the enemy of the best?

56:53

[00 58:04.760 – 00:58:15.260] Bill, this might be good, but it's not the best." And Bill said, "There spoke the group conscience."

57:01

[00 58:15.260 – 00:58:25.300] Now, Chad, I don't know how many people Bill Wilson could have gotten together on year two in New York

57:09

[00 58:25.300 – 00:58:29.940] to have this conversation, but it certainly wasn't a room full.

57:14

[00 58:29.940 – 00:58:34.940] It was probably one or two people, and Lois might have been in there that night too.

57:22

[00 58:34.940 – 00:58:45.240] But Bill found the opportunity to take and create a story that got the point across

57:29

[00 58:45.240 – 00:58:50.920] of the importance of the group conscience and the importance of personal sacrifice.

57:34

[00 58:50.920 – 00:58:53.980] He was a master at it.

57:37

[00 58:53.980 – 00:58:59.400] I hope I answered your question, and gave you more information than you wanted to.

57:44

[00 58:59.400 – 00:59:02.600] Thank you, Chad.

57:46

[00 59:02.600 – 00:59:03.740] Next up is Gary.

57:48

[00 59:03.740 – 00:59:04.600] You can unmute.

57:49

[00 59:04.600 – 00:59:10.920] Uh, thanks sm- so much for the re- recordings, Mike.

57:54

[00 59:10.920 – 00:59:19.670] Um, I actually have, uh, one wish, is that have you gone through all of your inventory of your wire recordings?

58:03

[00 59:19.670 – 00:59:23.360] Or are there wire recordings yet to be discovered?

58:07

[00 59:23.360 – 00:59:33.380] There's about a box that we have of about 70, that's 7-0, wire

58:12

[00 59:33.380 – 00:59:36.720] recordings that have not been digitized.

58:15

[00 59:36.720 – 00:59:46.660] Well, I'm hoping one of those would be Bobbi Berger, but you, you know how biased I am on that, that, that subject.

58:25

[00 59:46.660 – 00:59:48.080] Wouldn't that be cool?

58:27

[00 59:48.080 – 00:59:48.920] And you know what?

58:29

[00 59:48.920 – 00:59:59.020] W- Bobbi was close with Dick Stanley, and we picked up a library, uh, within the last year that came

58:38

[00 59:59.020 – 01:00:00.820] out of Akron, Cleveland.

58:40

[01 00:00.820 – 01:00:06.740] There may be, uh, something there if she spoke at any of the meetings there locally.

58:47

[01 00:06.740 – 01:00:10.060] I, I, I've got my fingers crossed.

58:50

[01 00:10.060 – 01:00:10.600] Uh, and- Yeah.

58:52

[01 00:10.600 – 01:00:12.860] We will put that on the radar, Gary ...

58:55

[01 00:12.860 – 01:00:22.120] one of the, uh, speakers that you had talked about the AA prayer, and it was commonly referred to in the '40s that way.

59:06

[01 00:22.120 – 01:00:23.750] Do you have any idea what-

59:09

[01 00:23.920 – 01:00:27.740] And we actually ended up calling it the Serenity Prayer?

59:14

[01 00:27.740 – 01:00:34.240] Well, again, that talk was 1947 in Australia.

59:17

[01 00:34.240 – 01:00:35.020] Okay?

59:18

[01 00:35.020 – 01:00:42.320] I think by then we were already in the, in the States calling it the Serenity Prayer.

59:25

[01 00:42.320 – 01:00:52.820] And I know, uh, that, we have an interview on the m- uh, Mike Wallace on, uh, Weekday Radio,

59:33

[01 00:52.820 – 01:01:02.840] and on there his cohost Virginia says, "Well, Bill, will you tell us about the AA Prayer?" So we do know that they were still using it

59:45

[01 01:02.840 – 01:01:09.500] in the late '40s and, and, you know, she was a non-alcoholic, but, uh, that's a good question.

59:53

[01 01:09.500 – 01:01:10.700] We'll have to look into that, Gary.

59:56

[01 01:10.700 – 01:01:20.700] Oh, one, one last question also is, is that i- you know, in, uh, Nell Wing's book Grateful To Be There, she credits Helen Wynn in

60:07

[01 01:20.700 – 01:01:26.860] 1962 with saving Bill from a deep depression.

60:11

[01 01:26.860 – 01:01:27.700] Mm-hmm.

60:12

[01 01:27.700 – 01:01:37.960] Um, has there been any documentation or any, um, mention of a, uh, a depression, uh, or aftermath, uh,

60:20

[01 01:37.960 – 01:01:41.920] anywhere else besides Nell Wing's mentioning, uh, that event?

60:24

[01 01:41.920 – 01:01:44.160] Not that I know of.

60:26

[01 01:44.160 – 01:01:47.420] I've, I have not seen any documentation of that.

60:30

[01 01:47.420 – 01:01:49.440] Well, okay.

60:32

[01 01:49.440 – 01:01:52.240] It's i- it's in, in Grateful To Have Been There by- Yeah ...

60:37

[01 01:52.240 – 01:01:54.980] by Nell Wing, but I've not seen it ever mentioned anywhere else.

60:42

[01 01:54.980 – 01:01:55.420] Yeah.

60:43

[01 01:55.420 – 01:01:58.680] Well, and I also know, you know, in the Bill W.

60:48

[01 01:58.680 – 01:02:08.820] movie that Page 124 Productions did back in, like, '08 or whenever they did that, um, the, they're talking to Bill on that

60:58

[01 02:08.820 – 01:02:10.400] and they're talking to Dr.

61:00

[01 02:10.400 – 01:02:14.740] Hoffer, who was Bill's doctor that was working with him on the niacin.

61:06

[01 02:14.740 – 01:02:15.660] And Dr.

61:07

[01 02:15.660 – 01:02:20.540] Hoffer had stated that Bill was showing some really good improvements.

61:12

[01 02:20.540 – 01:02:30.900] And then, uh, they had a clip of Nell saying that she thought that his relationship with Helen was, uh, was what was

61:22

[01 02:30.900 – 01:02:32.620] overcoming his depression.

61:23

[01 02:32.620 – 01:02:42.740] So, uh, I find it kind of interesting, uh, the different takes on Bill, but I think that Bill clearly

61:32

[01 02:42.740 – 01:02:51.820] talked in that, in that recording that we listened to to the doctors that he had been through the depression.

61:41

[01 02:51.820 – 01:02:54.900] It, it was in the past by then.

61:44

[01 02:54.900 – 01:02:58.520] I think he ended with a date of '55.

61:49

[01 02:58.520 – 01:03:03.720] So we should listen to that again.

61:52

[01 03:03.720 – 01:03:15.180] And, uh, I'm gonna ask Gary while we got a minute here, did you listen to the Tom Powers, um, talk at the Indianapolis, uh, Doctors, uh,

62:03

[01 03:15.180 – 01:03:16.820] Conference?

62:04

[01 03:16.820 – 01:03:19.960] You had inquired where that talk, when that talk was.

62:09

[01 03:19.960 – 01:03:24.180] No, I haven't, in all honesty.

62:12

[01 03:24.180 – 01:03:25.360] All right.

62:13

[01 03:25.360 – 01:03:28.000] And that was, uh, tape 65.

62:15

[01 03:28.000 – 01:03:30.140] Okay.

62:16

[01 03:30.140 – 01:03:32.480] I'm starting to...

62:18

[01 03:32.480 – 01:03:34.260] That's getting a vague hit.

62:20

[01 03:34.260 – 01:03:35.120] Yeah, yeah.

62:21

[01 03:35.120 – 01:03:36.300] Well, so we did something.

62:24

[01 03:36.300 – 01:03:44.089] We played a little piece of Tom from there, and, uh, you'll wanna listen to Tom P., Indianapolis.

62:32

[01 03:44.089 – 01:03:47.600] It's either '65, '66, or '67.

62:35

[01 03:47.600 – 01:03:48.000] Okay?

62:35

[01 03:48.000 – 01:03:49.040] Got it.

62:37

[01 03:49.040 – 01:03:50.820] And thank you, Gary.

62:39

[01 03:50.820 – 01:03:51.740] Thanks for all you do.

62:41

[01 03:51.740 – 01:03:56.980] Back out to you.

62:43

[01 03:56.980 – 01:04:00.480] I, I'll find the recording and share it in the chat in just a second.

62:50

[01 04:00.480 – 01:04:02.200] But I will unmute Carl.

62:52

[01 04:02.200 – 01:04:03.020] You are next.

62:54

[01 04:03.020 – 01:04:05.580] Thanks, Tim.

62:55

[01 04:05.580 – 01:04:07.040] My name's Carl and I'm an alcoholic.

62:58

[01 04:07.040 – 01:04:08.920] Mike, thank you so much for your presentation.

63:02

[01 04:08.920 – 01:04:13.340] Thank you for sharing your respect and your love of Bill Wilson.

63:07

[01 04:13.340 – 01:04:16.940] Uh, you partially already answered this question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway.

63:13

[01 04:16.940 – 01:04:25.400] Um, Bill Wilson's father left and went to British Columbia when he was a young child and his mother went, uh, left to go to, uh, New York to become a doctor.

63:27

[01 04:25.400 – 01:04:27.700] In your opinion, and you said Dr.

63:30

[01 04:27.700 – 01:04:28.360] Bob was the...

63:32

[01 04:28.360 – 01:04:33.400] In your opinion, who were, who was the greatest influence on Bill Wilson?

63:38

[01 04:33.400 – 01:04:34.620] Was it his grandfather?

63:40

[01 04:34.620 – 01:04:35.170] Was it Dr.

63:41

[01 04:35.170 – 01:04:36.000] Silkworth?

63:42

[01 04:36.000 – 01:04:37.540] Was it Father Ed?

63:44

[01 04:37.540 – 01:04:40.100] Was it, uh, Sam Shoemaker?

63:47

[01 04:40.100 – 01:04:42.219] And then of course you said Dr.

63:50

[01 04:42.219 – 01:04:50.000] Bob, but w- who do you think without a father and a mother was his, his greatest, uh, influencer?

63:58

[01 04:50.000 – 01:04:51.260] Wow.

63:59

[01 04:51.260 – 01:04:52.860] You know, Carl, that's a...

64:01

[01 04:52.860 – 01:04:56.920] I'm so glad that you mentioned some of those names.

64:06

[01 04:56.920 – 01:04:57.320] Okay?

64:07

[01 04:57.320 – 01:05:07.350] 'Cause when we talk about Bill, we could talk about Gerald Heard, we could talk about so many other people that he was connected with throughout

64:18

[01 05:07.350 – 01:05:11.300] his life, and that he went to non-alcoholics.

64:22

[01 05:11.300 – 01:05:13.580] Sam Shoemaker, Father Ed Dowling.

64:24

[01 05:13.580 – 01:05:20.040] And he really hung his hat with these people, and had great deal of respect.

64:31

[01 05:20.040 – 01:05:30.220] And I'll tell you, Bill would do very little without including the non-alcoholics, because I really believe that he knew how much damage alcoholics did to the home,

64:42

[01 05:30.220 – 01:05:40.550] and Bill always, always respected and loved the non-alcoholics and wanted to see them have the same opportunity to have a good and

64:52

[01 05:40.550 – 01:05:41.940] free life.

64:54

[01 05:41.940 – 01:05:44.060] I think that Dr.

64:56

[01 05:44.060 – 01:05:54.060] Bob and Anne certainly would have had a tremendous influence and impact on

65:01

[01 05:54.060 – 01:06:00.160] Doctor- on Bill prior to the writing of The Big Book, Carl.

65:07

[01 06:00.160 – 01:06:08.520] And you know, we talk about The Big Book and we talk about how it was influenced, we talk about how much of it was New York.

65:18

[01 06:08.520 – 01:06:09.100] Okay?

65:19

[01 06:09.100 – 01:06:19.180] But if we really, really get down to it, Bill lived with the Smiths for four months after Bob and he

65:28

[01 06:19.180 – 01:06:20.780] met, something like that.

65:30

[01 06:20.780 – 01:06:29.500] They had coffee together every day, lunch together, dinner together, prayer time together both morning and night.

65:38

[01 06:29.500 – 01:06:31.860] They went on 12-step calls together.

65:40

[01 06:31.860 – 01:06:33.940] They talked about this process.

65:43

[01 06:33.940 – 01:06:36.980] They watched men fail, they watched men succeed.

65:47

[01 06:36.980 – 01:06:46.320] I am convinced with every fiber of my being that the relationship that Bill Wilson had with Dr.

65:54

[01 06:46.320 – 01:06:56.560] Bob and Anne Smith contributed greatly to the writing of The Big Book, and I definitely feel

66:02

[01 06:56.560 – 01:07:04.820] that those two people were very, very important and powerful influences on Bill's life.

66:08

[01 07:04.820 – 01:07:06.380] Now, when I say that-

66:10

[01 07:07.039 – 01:07:11.029] I don't think the wisdom of Alcoholics Anonymous came from Dr.

66:15

[01 07:11.029 – 01:07:12.219] Bob, okay?

66:17

[01 07:12.219 – 01:07:22.439] I think the nurturing and what Bill learned there in Akron made its way into the Big Book, as did the personal stories

66:27

[01 07:22.439 – 01:07:23.739] that they needed to have.

66:29

[01 07:23.739 – 01:07:26.399] Majority of those came from Akron.

66:32

[01 07:26.399 – 01:07:31.319] So we know that Akron was the mecca of AA.

66:36

[01 07:31.319 – 01:07:37.899] Many people went and celebrated at Founder's Day, uh, last week at Akron.

66:42

[01 07:37.899 – 01:07:42.939] And, and I understand it was incredibly successful event and people had a good time.

66:49

[01 07:42.939 – 01:07:51.199] So, I think that Bill's grandfather, 'cause Bill said that, no question about it, and I think Dr.

66:57

[01 07:51.199 – 01:07:53.399] Bob and Anne.

66:58

[01 07:53.399 – 01:07:58.079] And I also think there were a couple of people that were quiet in Bill's life.

67:05

[01 07:58.079 – 01:07:59.399] William D.

67:06

[01 07:59.399 – 01:08:02.399] Silkworth, Frank Amos.

67:08

[01 08:02.399 – 01:08:12.479] Bill surrounded himself, and these people became trustees of the Alcoholic Foundation during AA's most formative and, and most important years in

67:18

[01 08:12.479 – 01:08:13.539] our infancy.

67:19

[01 08:13.539 – 01:08:18.099] And Bill surrounded himself with these people that were absolutely phenomenal.

67:24

[01 08:18.099 – 01:08:23.039] And they loved him, and they let him be himself.

67:28

[01 08:23.039 – 01:08:26.498] They didn't put him up on a pedestal.

67:32

[01 08:26.498 – 01:08:30.839] And, and, you know, many of these people, Bill looked up to.

67:37

[01 08:30.839 – 01:08:31.989] A lot of the people Bill...

67:40

[01 08:31.989 – 01:08:41.179] I'm sure that Bill was nervous when he picked up the phone sometimes to call some of the folks that he called, or when he got a letter from somebody and saw who it was from.

67:55

[01 08:41.179 – 01:08:44.979] My God, this is from a senator, this is from a congressman, this from a president.

68:02

[01 08:44.979 – 01:08:50.939] I mean, Bill was dealing with people worldwide that had political influences and all kinds of things.

68:10

[01 08:50.939 – 01:08:51.779] Incredible guy.

68:11

[01 08:51.779 – 01:08:53.159] But I would have to say Dr.

68:14

[01 08:53.159 – 01:08:59.059] Bob and Anne in the recovery, and, uh, his grandfather prior to that.

68:20

[01 08:59.059 – 01:09:01.159] But thank you for the question, Carl.

68:23

[01 09:01.159 – 01:09:04.999] I hope I did a fair job of explaining it.

68:28

[01 09:04.999 – 01:09:07.759] Thank you, Carl.

68:29

[01 09:07.759 – 01:09:09.819] And next up is Toni.

68:32

[01 09:09.819 – 01:09:10.859] You can unmute.

68:34

[01 09:10.859 – 01:09:15.979] Uh, Toni, alcoholic.

68:35

[01 09:15.979 – 01:09:16.279] Hi.

68:36

[01 09:16.279 – 01:09:16.799] Thank you.

68:37

[01 09:16.799 – 01:09:17.919] Thank you all very much.

68:40

[01 09:17.919 – 01:09:28.059] To make this quicker, I'm gonna ask, I, I was actually thinking a lot about, um, uh, Bobbie's writings, you know, when you were talking about Bill being so depressed and her, you know,

68:54

[01 09:28.059 – 01:09:30.519] carrying a load at the office, and I...

68:58

[01 09:30.519 – 01:09:38.379] It came to my mind, I wonder if anyone, if there's an archive in Australia on the correspondence that she did at that time.

69:08

[01 09:38.379 – 01:09:42.199] And with the combination of people here, I know that they would know the answer to that.

69:16

[01 09:42.199 – 01:09:46.579] So I'm sorry to divert a little bit, but I just was wondering- No, Toni- ...

69:22

[01 09:46.579 – 01:09:46.919] about that ...

69:23

[01 09:46.919 – 01:09:47.459] no problem at all.

69:25

[01 09:47.459 – 01:09:52.139] I'm actually not qualified to answer the question 'cause I have no idea.

69:31

[01 09:52.139 – 01:09:53.209] But- But- ...

69:32

[01 09:53.209 – 01:09:57.339] there happens to be someone in the room tonight that might- That's why I did it ...

69:39

[01 09:57.339 – 01:09:58.129] be able to tell us.

69:42

[01 09:58.129 – 01:10:04.319] Gary, a- a- any information on archives that contain Bobbie B.'s information?

69:48

[01 10:04.319 – 01:10:07.219] Unmute him.

69:49

[01 10:07.219 – 01:10:17.659] Well, the, the, uh, the book One To Another, which was published by, um, uh, Australian AA in 2014,

69:57

[01 10:17.659 – 01:10:20.179] it's their AA Comes of Age.

70:00

[01 10:20.179 – 01:10:29.829] And about the first 180 pages of that book are all about Bobbie Burger, mainly having conversations with a Dr.

70:08

[01 10:29.829 – 01:10:34.599] Minogue, who was a co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous in Australia.

70:12

[01 10:34.599 – 01:10:44.879] There's also, um, a, a, a conversation with the Lillian Roth, who was in Australia trying to, uh, uh, re-

70:21

[01 10:44.879 – 01:10:54.959] rebuild her career, and she ended up, uh, helping start a meeting in, uh, Melbourne, Australia, so there's conversations there, um, uh, as,

70:31

[01 10:54.959 – 01:10:55.759] as well.

70:32

[01 10:55.759 – 01:11:00.179] It's out of trivia that Bobbie h- had such a huge...

70:37

[01 11:00.179 – 01:11:06.599] About 20 letters was written, uh, in a, in the, in the '40s between Bobbie and, uh, Dr.

70:45

[01 11:06.599 – 01:11:07.299] Minogue.

70:46

[01 11:07.299 – 01:11:11.379] But they, uh, uh, they, she, they, uh, had...

70:50

[01 11:11.379 – 01:11:20.139] Bobbie had such an impact on, uh, Australian AAs when they came out with the third edition Big Book relatively recently.

70:59

[01 11:20.139 – 01:11:25.538] In the preface, just out of trivia, Bobbie's name is mentioned and Bill Wilson's is not.

71:06

[01 11:25.538 – 01:11:35.699] But that's kind of put it into perspective of just h- what a huge role, uh, Bobbie played in, uh, both, uh, Australia and as well as

71:17

[01 11:35.699 – 01:11:37.779] in New, in, in, uh, New Zealand.

71:21

[01 11:37.779 – 01:11:40.199] There you go.

71:22

[01 11:40.199 – 01:11:43.839] Gary, thank you so much.

71:25

[01 11:43.839 – 01:11:47.959] Uh, and thanks for bringing Bobbie to life for everyone.

71:29

[01 11:47.959 – 01:11:58.679] What a, what an important lady, what a significant life that she had, and what a contribution to AA worldwide, AA international.

71:39

[01 11:58.679 – 01:12:08.319] And, uh, the work that she did continues today, and, uh, and the work that Bill did continues today, and Bob.

71:48

[01 12:08.319 – 01:12:14.099] And, you know, when we look at people and we say, "Oh, Bill W., a different kind of hero," you know.

71:57

[01 12:14.099 – 01:12:20.499] And my, my first sponsor told me, "Kid, you don't put anybody on a pedestal.

72:03

[01 12:20.499 – 01:12:24.099] You don't place any dependency upon people.

72:07

[01 12:24.099 – 01:12:26.379] People will, they'll die.

72:09

[01 12:26.379 – 01:12:27.019] They'll leave you.

72:10

[01 12:27.019 – 01:12:29.119] They'll change.

72:12

[01 12:29.119 – 01:12:39.239] What you wanna do is you wanna d- place your dependency upon God." And, uh, that's what AA teaches.

72:20

[01 12:39.239 – 01:12:50.499] And when we anchor, whatever your perception of God is, but when we anchor our lives into a power greater than ourselves, we're

72:30

[01 12:50.499 – 01:12:53.139] on track to have a pretty, pretty good life.

72:34

[01 12:53.139 – 01:13:00.859] 'Cause, uh, one thing that, you know, conceit is a weird disease.

72:39

[01 13:00.859 – 01:13:05.279] It makes everybody else sick except for the person that's got it.

72:44

[01 13:05.279 – 01:13:10.659] Tim, I think we got time for one or two more.

72:49

[01 13:10.659 – 01:13:11.819] All right.

72:51

[01 13:11.819 – 01:13:13.339] Next up is Carleen.

72:53

[01 13:13.339 – 01:13:14.299] You can unmute.

72:54

[01 13:14.299 – 01:13:18.809] Name's Carleen.

72:56

[01 13:18.809 – 01:13:21.499] I'm a recovered alcoholic from New South Wales, Australia.

73:00

[01 13:21.499 – 01:13:22.179] Hello, Gary.

73:01

[01 13:22.179 – 01:13:24.639] It's so lovely to see you again.

73:04

[01 13:24.639 – 01:13:35.239] Um, if it hadn't have been for Gary and his research into Bobbie Burger and how the message was brought to Australia, Australia would still be in the dark and ignorant of what a huge

73:19

[01 13:35.239 – 01:13:41.839] part Bobbie played in bringing the message from JSO New York to Australia.

73:25

[01 13:41.839 – 01:13:46.319] Because most people in Australia have no idea about Bobbie Burger.

73:30

[01 13:46.319 – 01:13:47.558] No idea.

73:31

[01 13:47.558 – 01:13:49.039] And she was an instiga-

73:33

[01 13:49.159 – 01:13:55.999] Getting powerful force in the setting up and the founding of Alcoholics Anonymous in Australia, the nation Australia.

73:41

[01 13:55.999 – 01:14:04.459] And we're still here today because of Bobbi Ber- Bobbi Berger's love and dedication to carrying that message to us over here.

73:51

[01 14:04.459 – 01:14:09.099] You know, we owe her the hugest debt of gratitude.

73:55

[01 14:09.099 – 01:14:19.099] And at our Founder's Day celebration last, last Saturday in a little community hall in the, in the countryside, we had a little special spot for Bobbi and a, and a little

74:09

[01 14:19.099 – 01:14:22.039] electronic candle burning for her alone.

74:12

[01 14:22.039 – 01:14:23.719] So thank you, Gary.

74:14

[01 14:23.719 – 01:14:24.759] Thank you so much.

74:16

[01 14:24.759 – 01:14:26.699] That, that'll do for me.

74:18

[01 14:26.699 – 01:14:27.039] Thank you.

74:19

[01 14:27.039 – 01:14:29.019] Okay.

74:20

[01 14:29.019 – 01:14:30.179] Any other questions?

74:22

[01 14:30.179 – 01:14:31.579] Thank you, Caroline.

74:24

[01 14:31.579 – 01:14:33.119] And next up is Philip.

74:26

[01 14:33.119 – 01:14:36.879] Hi.

74:27

[01 14:36.879 – 01:14:39.659] Thanks, Mike, uh, for another great presentation.

74:30

[01 14:39.659 – 01:14:49.699] I had a question about, uh, Tom Powers, and, um, if you could briefly, uh, say who he was and, uh, 'cause I'm

74:40

[01 14:49.699 – 01:14:51.339] not f- too familiar with him.

74:43

[01 14:51.339 – 01:14:52.219] Okay.

74:44

[01 14:52.219 – 01:14:56.059] And, uh, you had mentioned that he had a falling out with Bill W.

74:50

[01 14:56.059 – 01:14:57.959] Thank you.

74:51

[01 14:57.959 – 01:14:58.959] Okay.

74:52

[01 14:58.959 – 01:14:59.499] Thank you.

74:53

[01 14:59.499 – 01:15:09.559] I don't know that I mentioned that he had a falling out, but I may have mentioned that there's a lot of rumors about Tom and Bill having a major falling

75:06

[01 15:09.559 – 01:15:09.779] out.

75:07

[01 15:09.779 – 01:15:20.099] But we have material here, um, w- you know, one was a recording I had, uh, referred Gary to that Tim was gonna try to find and put in the chat

75:20

[01 15:20.099 – 01:15:25.739] of Tom speaking at a convention for the International Doctors in the late '60s.

75:27

[01 15:25.739 – 01:15:29.719] Now, Tom got sober in the early 1940s.

75:31

[01 15:29.719 – 01:15:31.179] He was a brilliant man.

75:33

[01 15:31.179 – 01:15:32.959] He was a neighbor of Bill W.'s.

75:37

[01 15:32.959 – 01:15:35.979] I have got a, I've got, uh, his big book here.

75:42

[01 15:35.979 – 01:15:43.139] I've got a first edition, first printing that was signed by Bill to Tom and Ginny in 1942.

75:49

[01 15:43.139 – 01:15:53.419] Tom, uh, Tom expanded, uh, his recovery by wanting to step outside of AA

75:55

[01 15:53.419 – 01:16:04.059] and do more for people than, uh, the singleness of purpose of Alcoholics Anonymous, and he became the founder of All Addicts Anonymous.

76:05

[01 16:04.059 – 01:16:14.339] I don't know exactly what year that started, but i- they went to Hankins, New York and they started, uh, a, uh, a

76:15

[01 16:14.339 – 01:16:17.319] community there of like-minded people.

76:17

[01 16:17.319 – 01:16:22.279] And, uh, and Tom was a leader of that community until his death.

76:23

[01 16:22.279 – 01:16:28.139] Tom wrote several books, stayed, uh, very plugged into recovery his whole life.

76:29

[01 16:28.139 – 01:16:38.359] Um, there w- there had been rumors out of that community that, uh, had said that Bill W., uh, had all these

76:38

[01 16:38.359 – 01:16:42.279] character defects and was a womanizer and all of this stuff.

76:43

[01 16:42.279 – 01:16:52.339] And, uh, honestly, uh, doing some heavy lifting and due diligence, it's been very, very difficult to document or find any evidence to support those

76:54

[01 16:52.339 – 01:16:52.849] claims.

76:55

[01 16:52.849 – 01:17:02.899] Um, to make a claim that Tom and Bill h- had a falling out, I don't know that that's completely true, because

77:04

[01 17:02.899 – 01:17:13.419] I've got a photo of Tom and his mother and Bill together in the late '60s, and Tom was still speaking at AA, and Tom was still communicating

77:17

[01 17:13.419 – 01:17:13.999] with Bill.

77:18

[01 17:13.999 – 01:17:24.379] So I think that after Bill's death, there were some people within that community who, uh, a- and, and Tom

77:26

[01 17:24.379 – 01:17:31.359] Junior, right, uh, who felt that maybe Tom Senior wasn't given the credit that he deserved.

77:33

[01 17:31.359 – 01:17:42.339] And I think that there may have been some family members, and again, I'm speculating some of this, that may have been somewhat resentful that Tom didn't get credit

77:46

[01 17:42.339 – 01:17:44.349] for some of the work that he did with Bill.

77:50

[01 17:44.349 – 01:17:46.459] Now, Bill tried to give him credit.

77:54

[01 17:46.459 – 01:17:47.059] Bill gave him...

77:55

[01 17:47.059 – 01:17:57.159] I've got recordings where Bill says, "Hey, Tom was, was responsible, 50% responsible for, um, the book AA Comes of Age and

78:04

[01 17:57.159 – 01:18:02.059] Twelve and Twelve," for editing the book, not writing the book.

78:09

[01 18:02.059 – 01:18:10.279] And again, some people thought that Tom was, uh, more active in the writing, but he was not.

78:17

[01 18:10.279 – 01:18:12.179] So I hope I've answered it.

78:20

[01 18:12.179 – 01:18:20.519] Um, I think the, the thing that AA really is to be tolerant and loving toward all.

78:27

[01 18:20.519 – 01:18:23.819] I think Bill and Tom had respect for one another.

78:32

[01 18:23.819 – 01:18:30.279] They were both highly intelligent people, and they both did a tremendous amount for mankind.

78:38

[01 18:30.279 – 01:18:40.499] Thank you, and let's get Marian in here.

78:42

[01 18:40.499 – 01:18:41.479] And you can unmute.

78:44

[01 18:41.479 – 01:18:43.779] Hi.

78:45

[01 18:43.779 – 01:18:45.319] Good presentation.

78:46

[01 18:45.319 – 01:18:54.769] Um, th- this clip is coming from i- uh, the in- the early, the question about the early influences on Bill.

78:55

[01 18:54.769 – 01:18:57.659] How much history has been written about Dorothy?

78:59

[01 18:57.659 – 01:19:01.319] Uh- His sister ...

79:01

[01 19:01.319 – 01:19:03.159] Bill's sister, Dorothy?

79:02

[01 19:03.159 – 01:19:04.519] I don't know of anything.

79:05

[01 19:04.519 – 01:19:06.859] Okay.

79:06

[01 19:06.859 – 01:19:07.779] I was just curious.

79:08

[01 19:07.779 – 01:19:08.179] Yeah.

79:08

[01 19:08.179 – 01:19:09.959] We have a recording of her.

79:11

[01 19:09.959 – 01:19:15.409] 'Cause she must have had quite an influence on his, you know- Yeah ...

79:17

[01 19:15.409 – 01:19:17.578] when they were together with half the parents.

79:21

[01 19:17.578 – 01:19:23.459] Yeah, you know, that, that, that's a great, that's, that's worth digging into right there.

79:27

[01 19:23.459 – 01:19:26.199] Yeah, it really is, and I think Stepping Stones.

79:32

[01 19:26.199 – 01:19:30.979] If you guys don't, uh, don't visit steppingstones.org, you really should.

79:37

[01 19:30.979 – 01:19:32.749] And you should support Stepping Stones.

79:40

[01 19:32.749 – 01:19:34.119] The work they're doing is incredible.

79:43

[01 19:34.119 – 01:19:37.579] And, uh, a- and you know, that's Bill and Lois' home.

79:48

[01 19:37.579 – 01:19:41.399] I mean, wow, it's incredible.

79:50

[01 19:41.399 – 01:19:48.459] So grateful to Lois for having set it up so that everybody could experience their lives like we're able to now.

79:59

[01 19:48.459 – 01:19:52.039] And they just had their picnic, you know, at Stepping Stones.

80:04

[01 19:52.039 – 01:19:53.939] They have it every year in June.

80:07

[01 19:53.939 – 01:19:59.279] And if you haven't attended one, they do them online now, so we can attend them online.

80:15

[01 19:59.279 – 01:20:09.349] I wanna thank everybody for being here tonight and, uh, let you know that this is the thrill of my life to be able to be part of what I'm part of, to be able to share this

80:31

[01 20:09.349 – 01:20:14.119] with you, and to, uh, I'm just grateful for so many people.

80:36

[01 20:14.119 – 01:20:16.819] So thank you all for being here.

80:39

[01 20:16.819 – 01:20:20.989] And next week we got Penny gonna have a conversation with a long-timer.

80:45

[01 20:20.989 – 01:20:23.659] All right.

80:46

[01 20:23.659 – 01:20:25.999] Thank you so much everyone for being here.

80:50

[01 20:25.999 – 01:20:27.619] I will allow you all to unmute.

80:53

[01 20:27.619 – 01:20:30.199] And thank, Mike, and we'll see you next week.

80:57

[01 20:30.199 – 01:20:31.559] They don't have to-

The following is an AI-generated transcript. Minor errors may occur. The audio is the authoritative source.

Bill W a different kind of hero presented by mike f – 2025-06-17

Bill W a different kind of hero presented by mike f – 2025-06-17

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