AA History Zoom Meeting — May 22, 2020

Interactive Transcript

14px

0:00

Unknown AA History Zoom Meeting • 2020

0:02

Unknown Listen to Meeting Recording

0:04

Unknown ABOUT THIS MEETING

0:05

Unknown Recording of the AA History Zoom Meeting from May 22, 2020. These weekly meetings explored the rich history of Alcoholics Anonymous through discussion, storytelling, and primary source research. Hosted by Mike Fitzpatrick and the Recovery Speakers community.

0:22

Unknown Full Transcript

0:23

Moderator history that we recognize that there's various versions of these stories. Whether or not they're all true is debatable, but the reality is, is that if you believe things a certain way based on your line of sponsorship, the area of the country you came into recovery in, and that type of thing, you may occasionally hear something on this meeting that will ruffle your feathers or make you say, "No, it's, uh, that's not what I know." And I just want you to think about that dollar bill and understand that we aren't attempting to say these are all of the facts and the way that they are. What we're really trying to do is stimulate and encourage people to continue to research, to find more material, and to make that available. You know, the history of Alcoholics Anonymous is being changed right now with this meeting, with these types of meetings, because we're, we're entering a digital format and a lot of people are trying to figure out, how can we carry the message of hope and have it be as effective as it was that rainy afternoon when Bill Wilson sat in the library with Dr.

2:09

Moderator Bob at the gatehouse of the Siberling Estate, and they met for the first time. And Dr. Bob had a horrible hangover, didn't even wanna go, and he gets there, and then he walks into a room with Bill Wilson, and the next thing you know, they come out of the room and both men have a mission that has focus. And it was because one alcoholic carried a message with weight and depth to another alcoholic. And Bill Wilson said, "I needed him as bad as he needed me." And that was part of the miracle that, that I think happened to Bill as a result of, of Dr. Silkworth encouraging him to stop trying to preach to people and, and get them to change morally. Let's lay some of this stuff on them i- in a way where they understand it's like an allergy. It's gonna set up a compulsion, and then that way they can have the identification. And that was really the message that Silkworth gave to Bill before he went to Akron, and then Bill was able to give that message to Dr. Bob with identification, and they could go from there.

3:49

Moderator Tim, I think we have, uh, Dr. Bob telling a little bit of more, a little more info that might be cool. All right. Here it is. But in my mind, the spirit of service is of prime importance, although it has to be backed up with some, uh, knowledge of, uh, the subject. I know I used to go to the hospital, and I'd stand there and, and talk. I've talked many a time to a chap in a bed for five or six hours. I don't know how he, he ever stood me for five or six hours, but he did. Probably we'd hidden his clothes or something. But anyway, uh, the, it came to my mind that, uh, I probably didn't know too much about what I was talking. Therefore, we being stewards of what we have, and that includes our time, I was not giving a good account of my stewardship of time. If it took me six hours to say something to this man that I could have said in an hour, we'll say, if I'd known what I was talking about, I certainly was not a very efficient individual.

5:30

Unknown And incidentally, I'm somewhat allergic to work anyway. So, uh, I felt that I should, uh, continue to increase my familiarity, not only with the Good Book, but, uh, read a good deal of good standard literature, and possibly something of, uh, scientific interest along with it. So I did cultivate this habit of reading. If I think of, I think I'm not exaggerating when I say that I have probably averaged to read an hour a day for the last 15 years. Now, I don't say that to try to sell you on the idea that you've got to cultivate that habit of reading an hour a day, because there are plenty of people and fine AAs that don't read very much. You see, back in those days, we- We were groping in the dark entirely. We did not, uh, know much about it. We knew practically nothing of alcoholism. I, a physician, knew nothing about it to speak of. Oh, I'd read about it, but there wasn't anything worth reading in any of the textbooks.

7:02

Unknown And, uh, usually the information about it consisted on, uh, some clear treatment for DTs if you'd gone that far, and if you hadn't, why you prescribed a few bromides and, uh, gave the fellow a good lecture. None of which, of course, uh, amounted very much. And in early, uh, AA days, we became quite convinced that, uh, the spiritual program was fine, but it, uh... we could help it a lot out a little with some supplementary diet. So, uh, in the early days, Bill, having a lot of stomach trouble, had stumbled across the fact that, uh, he got along, uh, much better on sauerkraut and cold tomatoes. And so we thought that inasmuch as Bill had, uh, had that experience, that w- probably everyone else would share the same. But of course, we discovered later that the, uh, most any dietary restriction had very little to do with the acquisition and maintenance of permanent sobriety. Sauerkraut and tomatoes. Well, thank... Uh, maybe that's why people stopped after that recipe. You know, one of the, uh... When I was getting sober, I got to know Dr. Bob's son, Smitty.

8:40

Moderator He was, uh, he was living in Texas, and he was an Al-Anon member, and his sponsor was actually Arbutus, who was the, the spouse of Bill, who had the Midwest Tape Library, which is what we now are continuing to preserve. And so Smitty was over at the, at the library one day, and I, I was pretty new in recovery, probably 90 days. And, you know, Big John and Bill and, and Arbutus and the people that were coming, they were constantly, um, spoon-feeding me AA history. They were giving me, uh, tapes of Sister Ignatia and different people to listen to, and I was really absorbing all of this and, and really on fire for the history of, of AA. And I, and I don't know why, other than I remember my first time at Bill's house, um, I don't know if you can recall being a newcomer around old-timers, but these guys both got sober in 1951. So I'm sitting in the library this morning, um, with them, drinking a, uh, a cup of instant coffee, and I could get about a seven-word sentence out at the time, and three of them started with F.

10:19

Unknown So I'm sitting in the library with these guys, and somehow I thought it was my turn, so I shared one of my sentences. And, uh, Bill was not impressed. He started pounding his finger down on the table and glaring at me. He had one eye and one arm. He lost, uh, an arm in an automobile accident. He lost his eye in another automobile accident. And he's pounding his finger down on the table, glaring at me with one of his eyes, and he says, "The first thing we clean up in here, young man, is our mouth." And I thought, "Wow, this guy's a little intense." And when we got out, I said to Big John, I said, "What's up with grumpy, man? You guy- I'm 25 years old. You guys are gonna try to teach me now what I can, can and can't say?" He said, "Well, you know, Bill has a lot of respect for this program because it saved his life, and it saved mine, and it might save yours.

11:53

Moderator And as a, as a respect for the people who laid the groundwork and came before us, he knows that you might be the only Big Book that some new guy or girl gets to see when they come into this program. He wants you to be accurate, and he wants you to be a good example of Alcoholics Anonymous." And from that time to this time, I never found it necessary to use profanity at meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous, and that was why. But these guys were feeding me all of this information. And with Smitty being sponsored by Arbutus, he was over there quite often. And one day, Smitty said to me, "Do you know who, uh, who the first guy my dad and Bill W. worked with?" And, and I spout off, "Oh, Bill D., AA number three, Akron City Hospital. Yeah, I know this story." And, uh, and he said, "Well, there was a guy before Bill, and this guy's name was Eddie." And he explained that Eddie was a bad drunk and finally had to be committed because he was chasing Dr. Bob's wife around with a butcher knife.

13:33

Unknown So the first guy that they worked with had to go to a sanitarium. And then Smitty said 15 years later at his dad's funeral, a man walked up to him, extended his hand, and said, "You know who I am?" And he looked at him and he said, "Why, you're Smitty." And, or, "Why, you're Eddie." And Eddie said, "And, and I've been sober for two years, and I'm a member of the Youngstown group." Now, I've st- done a little research on Eddie, and I know he went to work for the Council on Alcoholism, and he lived in Youngstown, and he stayed active in both AA and working in the community and service to other people through the Council on Alcoholism. When Bill Wilson was writing the book AA Comes of Age, he had prepared a manuscript, and he sent the manuscript out to some of the early members, that he had included their stories or their contributions in the book AA Comes of Age. Eddie received a copy of it.

15:06

Moderator Well, I'm online one time, because I like to buy collectibles and things like that, and I see this bookstore has a letter and it says, "Letter signed by Father Ed Dowling to Bill Wilson." And I... No, from Bill Wilson to Father Ed Dowling. And I'm thinking, they put a, a little, uh, couple of paragraphs of what the letter said. And I thought, "There's no way. That's not, that's not a letter to Father Ed." So I bought it just so I could see what it was. And I got it, and it was to Eddie R., the guy that, that was chasing Anne around with a butcher knife. And Bill had sent him a copy of the manuscript and asked him that it, asked if his account was accurate, okay? And Eddie's response, which I didn't have in the letter, okay, I contacted, uh, New York TSO, I don't remember who it was back then that I dealt with, um, in the archives at the World Service Office, but she researched it and she was able to pull out the response letter from Eddie to Bill.

16:48

Moderator And in his letter, he said a couple of things that were really interesting. One was he thought that Bill kind of exaggerated the kitchen, uh, uh, the, the, the, the knife story of Anne Smith, okay? He thought that that was a little exaggerated. The other thing that he said that was missing was that when Bill and Dr. Bob went to see Bill D., AA number three, Eddie said he was present with them at that meeting at the hospital when they went for the first time. So the picture of the man on the bed with two alcoholics talking to the one on the bed, we've often referred to that as Dr. Bob and Bill carrying the message to Bill D. I think we might want a Photoshop of another member in there just to be more accurate, okay? Um, I say that comically, but that's how things happen with our history, is not everything is recorded, not everything is exactly the way that someone thought that it was, and I think we need to be open to other people's opinions on a lot of this stuff.

18:23

Unknown I feel like the older I get in, in the program, the more willing I am to do that too, because I used to plant my flag real deep in what I thought was right and then, and then I would miss the truth because I was so focused on my own opinion. But in Akron, when AA was getting started, there was a lot of stuff going on. Dr. Bob was inviting people into his home. Anne was inviting people into their home. They were nurturing these people. Anne was reading to them Bible verses from the Book of James, the Sermon on the Mount, and, uh, 13 Corinthians. I think Bill shared that last week on our, on our meeting. And people started coming there. So AA grew out of Akron. You had Clarence over in Cleveland. You had Archie Trowbridge in Detroit, Earl Treat in, in Chicago. And these, these characters started to mold what was to come of Alcoholics Anonymous in the early groups of AA. And as w- you know, after our- Our June 5th guest talks about the writing of the book.

19:53

Moderator When we get back to Akron, we're gonna talk about how the, how the book got some traction. How did it actually get out there? What happened with the Liberty Magazine article, the Cleveland Plain Dealer articles, and, uh, ultimately, the Jack Alexander piece that he wrote? But there were a lot of characters in there. Sister Ignatia was one of them, and, uh, we've got a clip from Sister Ignatia talking about what it was like with Dr. Bob in the early days in the hospital. During doctor's time, I think we treated before between 4 and 5,000. And he treated them, he came in every day unless he was out of town or something like that. And, uh, without any charge. He said, "That's my contribution to AA." Of course, in those days they didn't have too much either to start with, and you couldn't mention money very well. Or how much it would cost because if we just get them sober, that'd mean a, a great deal. But that was taken care of later on, thank God. It worked out very well, and they are no problem.

21:32

Moderator Oh, many times, whether they have it or don't, we take them in because God certainly provides. And the man who gets this program is everlastingly grateful. Doctor, um, it was hard to understand. Sometimes he'd make rounds and he'd come down and he'd say, "Sister, let that man go home. He doesn't want this program." "Oh, but Doctor, he has a big family and he has this, that and the other." "Doesn't want the program, Sister. He isn't ready." So he was always right. Many times they'd frighten you. They'd have a heart attack or they would tell me they had a bad heart or something. And I hated to bother Doctor too much. Often I'd call Anne. I think members of this group or any alcoholic should often say a prayer for Anne, because she was the backbone of this. In her calm, quiet way, she was really an angel. I would call her and say, "Oh, Anne, I'm so worried about this fellow." She knew most of them from either reputation or doctor telling about them.

23:14

Moderator And, uh, she would get the doctor if it was anything serious, but otherwise she'd, "Now don't worry about him because," well, they have a, they have a, um, they're alibiologists, in other words. And I learned they were. They'd do anything to, uh, promote another drink or treatment of some kind. So, well, um, we take them but once. That was doctor's plan, too. I thought, "Oh my, that's kind of strict, isn't it?" But oh, I see the wisdom of it. Because if there is a merry-go-round, when that temptation comes, they're gonna think, "Well, I can get back in there for five or six days. Why, that'll be all right. Sister's good. She'll take me back." And I'd only be encouraging their drinking. They know that it's a one-way trip. Thanks, Tim. Sister Ignatia, she definitely... You know, Dr. Bob and Bill referred to her as the angel of Alcoholics Anonymous. And there's no question that Bill and Bob, in the very early days, leaned fairly heavily upon non-alcoholics and their contribution to the foundation of Alcoholics Anonymous. There was a lot of excitement.

25:01

Moderator There was a lot, you know, depending on the area, um, Akron, I think, had more of a religious almost influence on AA, and New York didn't have that same influence. And, you know, I, I, I just pulled out, uh, Bill D.'s story, AA number three. And, you know, for, just, just to share that real quick, on page 191, um, here's what it reads. It says, "It would be hard to estimate how much AA has done for me. I really wanted the program and I wanted to go along with it. I noticed that others seemed to have a release, a happiness, something that I thought a person ought to have. I was trying to find the answer. I knew there were even more, something that I hadn't gotten. And I remembered one day- A, a week or two after I had come out of the hospital, Bill, Bill W., he's talking about, was over to, to our house talking to my wife. We were eating lunch and I was listening, trying to find out why he had this release that he seemed to have.

26:37

Unknown Bill looked across the table at my wife and me, try, uh, and looked across the table at my wife and said, "Henrietta, the Lord has been so wonderful to me, curing me of this terrible disease, that I just wanted to keep talking about it and telling people." This is Bill. I thought, "I think I have the answer." Bill was so very, very grateful that he had been released from this terrible thing that he had given God the credit for having done it, and he was so grateful he wanted to tell people about it. That sentence, "The Lord has been so wonderful to me, curing me of this terrible disease, that I just want to keep talking about it, telling people about it," has sort of become the golden text of AA and for me. And that's in Bill D., AA number three's story. Um, later on there was another guy that traveled to Akron. His name... He came from Chicago. His name was Earl Treat. And he's talking about Dr. Bob here, and he says, uh, "The day before I was due to go back to Chicago, a Wednesday, and Dr.

28:18

Moderator Bob's afternoon off, he had me down to the office and we spent three or four hours formally going through six step program." And it was at the time these were the six steps: complete deflation, dependency and guidance from a higher power, moral inventory, confession, restitution, continue to work with other alcoholics. That was Earl Treat sharing his story. So I find tremendous value, not just in the beginning pages of the Big Book, but in the stories that were written. Now, when, uh, when Bill S. shares with us in June, I, or, or maybe even today in our Q&A I'm gonna put him on the spot and ask him a question, 'cause I understand that the, uh, writing of Bill D.'s story, AA number three, was actually done by Bill W. If that's the case... Uh, he's giving us a thumbs up. Okay. So Bill W. wrote that story.

29:39

Unknown I think it's interesting to look at the Akron mindset of the Midwest, the influence of the Oxford Group, the religious influences, and then the wording that Bill used in writing that, "The Lord has been so good to me, curing me of this terrible thing, that I just want to tell people about it." I, I wonder if he would've had that same conversation with Hank Parkhurst in New York. I doubt it. I don't think that Wilson would have gone that way. He had to do that in Akron because he wanted to appease and communicate in a language that was acceptable for identification purposes with those people in Akron, and I think he did a tremendous job. I think Dr. Bob's influence and Ann's influence is something that without AA probably never would have grown. And next week when I... I'm gonna... There was a guy that was, that was sponsored by Archie Trowbridge, who was a founding member and a pioneer in Detroit, and this guy's name was George Hood. And George was a... He loved to record things.

31:15

Unknown So he had this wire recorder he would carry around with him wherever he went, and he would record the meetings and the conversations. He would record himself. He actually got Bill Wilson hooked on doing the same thing, although I don't think Bill carried the recorder around. He had one on his desk and he would dictate some, some notes and things that he would send out to people. Well, George, who took a trip and basically went to California, went around the country and came back, and while he was doing that, he was recording his visits, and then he was sending these recordings to Bill. And it was like he was trying to spy on Akron, okay? And what was going on in Akron. And next week I'm gonna play a couple clips from George's report back to Bill Wilson from his trip to Akron and around the country, and I think some of you are gonna find that, uh, very interesting, somewhat enlightening, and very comical.

32:41

Moderator So the, uh, person that Sister Ignatian mentioned that would be, uh, it would be wrong not to, not to give her tremendous credit as a pioneer of AA and, and in my opinion, with- doubt. So both Al-Anon and AA would have struggled to get start, and that's Anne Smith and her dedication to the early members of Alcoholics Anonymous. She actually, I think, made as significant or more so than Dr. Bob. She was home working with the alcoholics, giving them her philosophy, which was a lot of it obtained from the Oxford Group and a lot of it that Bill carried over when he spent six months living with them and the conversations that they had. So Anne was, was so instrumental in working with the families and helping those early members and the ones that were struggling. And to my knowledge, there's only one recording of Anne Smith, um, her voice. So I'm gonna have Tim just share it with you now. Robert wants me to start first. He's afraid. So we've got Betty and Smitty here with us and, and George Hood. We're all up in my bedroom, where we entertain now.

34:22

Moderator Very formal entertaining, as you can imagine. It's very nice of you to invite both Bob and myself down to Bedford Hills, and we'd love to come, but at present we, I imagine we're, we'll have to stay put at 855 Ardmore. This is a new experience for me. I had a moving picture taken of myself, and now I'm recording, so you see even with a bum eye, I'm still alive and kicking. Here's to Robert. According to, uh, Trowbridge, the ubiquitous Mr. Hood is, has descended on the Smiths for a short time, which is really an unexpected pleasure. We're both confined to the house yet, but, uh, have hopes of getting out in circulation before too long. I, uh, regret, and Anne also, that we can't come to Bedford Hills for a little recuperative period right now, but, uh, if you'll give us a rain check, maybe we'll show up next fall or winter. They tell us that we're doing very nicely, although I have discovered that, uh, surgery varies a good deal as to whether it's done on you or you do it on the other fellow. That changes the picture quite a bit.

36:10

Moderator I think, uh, possibly my recent experience will make me a little kinder and more thoughtful to those who are recipients of my handicraft. A little, uh... We at least can look forward to a nice chat with you, I hope in the early fall, and we appreciate the fact that you are willing to, uh, extend us the rain check. That, uh, recording was in June of 1947 and, uh, when I brought the library from Texas to Arizona, there was a box and the box had these wire recordings in them. And so we purchased a wire recorder. Oh, and Mike K., down in the bottom of my screen is on. He and I one night, uh, this is 12, 13 years ago, we set up a recording studio in the house and put the, the reel, the wires on, and we transcribed and, and preserved those. But it was... I, I have to just tell you, it was a tearful experience to hear the voices of these people for the first time off of these wires and how clear they were. And that wire today, um, that was done in Dr.

37:43

Unknown Bob's bedroom in June of 1947, and I was able to return that to the place where it originated. And when you visit Dr. Bob's home and you go to the top of the stairs, you'll see the wire recording, the record- uh, the actual recording itself, the recorder, and you'll be able to listen to the voices of those that were on the recording. So we're really trying to do some good things with the work that, that we're doing in preserving this. And Anne Smith was definitely one of those, you know, uh... My old sponsor would say she was a tall pole in the tent, and I really believe that she was. I really believe that Anne was such an anchor for Dr. Bob and Bill and these early members. I think she had a calmness about her, a generosity about her. She wanted to give of herself constantly. And she did it with such class. When I was doing a book, we recovered two, the, uh, the pioneers of, of the family groups for, to celebrate Al-Anon's 60th anniversary, and I got to Anne Smith.

39:21

Unknown I wanted to title the book 855 Ardmore Avenue, and I wanted to title the book that because Anne was just so much of a contributor to what was going on. I had letters that Smitty had given to, to Bill and Arbutus, and in the letters, they were writing about Anne Smith after she died. And actually, these, the copies of these were sent to Bill W. But in these letters, these people who knew Anne were describing what she was doing and how she was taking care and ministering to these alcoholics. And, and if a non al- if an alcoholic was bringing his wife to a first meeting and Anne Smith might have gotten a new dress, she would wear an old dress because she didn't want the person who was a brand new coming into the program to think that they didn't qualify, that they couldn't, they couldn't fit in. And that was interesting 'cause after... I got married in, uh, 1987 and moved to Michigan, and my wife was living in Adrian, Michigan. And I was, uh, waiting to move back to Arizona.

40:55

Moderator We had a f- this was January, February of '88, and we were moving to Arizona in June. And I was going to a lot of meetings. And the, a couple of guys said, "Hey, we want to introduce you to somebody, Mike." And I said, "Cool." And I, I hooked up with them and, and we went to this lady's house. And we get to this, we, we go up these stairs in this condo. It's on a little lake in Adrian, Michigan. And this old lady answers the door. And she kind of looked like I would think Anne Smith would look like. She had her hair up. She was wearing a long dress. Everything was in order. And we got into her home and she welcomed me and she said, "I ca- my husband Ernie and I came into AA in Dr. Bob's house." And I said, "Oh my, Ruth." Her name was Ruth. Her husband's name was Ernie. Their last name was Garrick, and they were one of the first, or Ernie was one of the first 100.

42:31

Moderator Well, I said to Ruth that day, I said, "You're in AA?" And she said, "No, but when, when Ernie came in, they treated us all the same. We were all, we all felt like we were part of." And that was Anne Smith's influence. And one of the things that Ruth did for me that day is she said, "You come back and visit me anytime you want." And that was like a Friday afternoon. Every Friday for the rest of the time that I lived there, I showed up at her house. And she would look forward to the visits and so would I. She would cut out little affirmations and crochet crosses and things to give me. But she talked to me about going to meetings and sitting with T. Henry and Clarice Williams in, in Akron and really shared some of the stuff that was going on. Even though they lived in Toledo, they would travel to Akron all the time. That was, that was where they were getting their, their juice. And they would go to Detroit and visit with Archie and his people. So there was a lot going on in Akron.

44:12

Moderator We're gonna keep, uh, sharing more and more of how the story goes, both New York and Akron, as they were running parallel to each other and as AA was growing. So when, um, when this recording was made and sent to Bill, they, uh, were declining an invitation to come to Bedford Hills to visit. And Bill responded with a recording that Tim's gonna play now. This is your announcer cutting in. We're now going to have a violin solo by Bill, the virtuoso. So long there, people. We'll be seeing you soon. I, uh, I love that. Earlier in the talk he had decl- he, he had said how he's looking forward to, to being with Dr. Bob and Bill, and there's no que- or Dr. Bob and Anne, and, and there's no question that, um, Bill had tremendous respect and reverence for Dr. Bob. And he, uh... You know, I, when I think about the relationship between Dr. Bob and Bill, it's kind of like this. Bill would get really excited about an idea, and he would kind of elevate in his excitement, and Dr.

45:51

Unknown Bob would grab him by the foot and he would pull him back down to earth. And Dr. Bob would help him stay steady. I'm grateful that the golden thread that was pulled through Alcoholics Anonymous had both Dr. Bob and Bill, and I don't think without some of those early pioneers that were mentioned today, Clarence, Archie, Sister Ignatia, some of them, that Dr. Bob and Bill would've been able to pull this thing off. But they were able to do it, and as a result of it, we're having Zoom meetings all over the world right now because of this pandemic, and people are figuring this out. Some of the best meetings I've been to in the last several years have been on Zoom. I just think that it's wonderful to be able to be part of this, to participate in it, to be able to share it, to be able to do our small part in preserving the history of all of the 12-step fellowships through the work that we're doing. And, uh, and I'm grateful to you for being part of this.

47:29

Moderator We would love to now open it up for any questions, uh, that you might have. And they don't have to be directed to me. They can be open questions. Tim can... You can unmute yourself, ask the question, and... 'Cause I have a few questions I might decide to ask, like, Bill that's on here or, uh, or someone else. So please feel free to, uh, jump in if you have any questions. I got a question. Uh, can you hear me? Yep. Yeah. I, I, I'm Wen, and I'm Al-Anon. And like you said in the beginning, uh, AA and Al-Anon people were together and they were all like one as a unit, and I don't understand how that broke down. Not that we wouldn't have separate meetings, but the rift between the, the two, the program is exactly the same really. I mean, it's appro- like the fourth, the f- Sure ... you know, like when we went to the, uh, uh, when Bill said that emotional sobriety's gonna be the fourth, uh, dimension of the program, um, uh, that's really what we're doing for o- for ourselves just as, as, as AAs are doing it.

49:15

Unknown So what is the history behind why, uh, that was allowed to happen that the, the such a s- tremendous break came about? Well, you know, uh, it, it didn't and, and, and I share that, um, with love and respect. Uh, what happened was the families in the beginning, because everybody was broke, everybody was just trying to... Most people, these, these were last gaspers. These were people who, who really had been beaten badly by the bottle, and their, their families were fractured. And those in, in Akron started to, to come together. They would get together on Sunday nights, and they would have picnics and, and they would have, uh, you know, I... Some of the letters said, "We would get together and we would have, uh, wieners and potatoes," and there might be nine different kinds of potatoes 'cause everybody could afford potatoes, and they would bring them for these potluck picnics and they would share what they had. And that's...

50:39

Unknown So in, in, in New York some of that was happening with Lois and some of her connections, but Bill was traveling, and it was n- around, uh, the late '40s, early '50, and Bill, Bill kind of took a trip around the country. And while he was going and visiting the groups, he was seeing that these- Non-alcoholic groups were starting to separate because they couldn't, they couldn't really identify... Here's one of the challenges. My wife's a non-alcoholic, okay? I'm an alcoholic. If someone comes to my home and we start talking about alcoholism and I say to this alcoholic, "Man, I know what it's like to wake up in the morning and need a damn drink. I mean, I know what it's like to need it mentally and physically, and once I have that drink, I know what it does for me." My wife doesn't have... Yeah, that it's not a reflex on her negative. She does not have that ability to have that identification because she doesn't have the same illness.

52:15

Unknown The family illness is much deeper and I think Bill Wilson said that Al-Anon is the greatest thing that happened since AA started, and the reason for the phenomenal growth of, of Al-Anon is due to their determination to fill that vast vacuum of family relationships, and that is the one that is the most destroyed. Now, that was Bill Wilson. So he traveled around the country and he went to the groups and he found there's groups down in Texas that were calling themselves NAA, Non-Alcoholics Anonymous. And then there was the AAA groups, and those were Alcoholics Anonymous Auxiliary. And he went back, uh, he was in, uh, uh, Salt Lake City and he gave a talk for a family group, and it was on a record. I saw it. I, I, I had it years ago. I might still have it here somewhere. But in that record, he talked to the family groups about the importance of them organizing it and putting this together and structuring it. He went back to Lois and he said, "You really should start a clearing house. You should do something to help unite these families because they're gonna fraction.

53:53

Moderator They're gonna do..." Uh, 'cause AA already had its traditions. So Bill really pushed to influence Lois, and Lois grabbed a friend of hers, Anne B. It wasn't Anne Smith. And Anne B. and Lois, uh, joined together and became the founding members of Al-Anon. But the family group influence started way back in 1935 with Anne Smith and Lois, and those two ladies helping each other and then the families. So I hope that that clears it up a little bit and I hope maybe I answered your question. Well, hey, Mike. Well, this is Mac. Yeah. Um, so I'm a grateful member of Al-Anon for a long time and have been to some Al-Anon conventions, and I understand that in the beginning, the alcoholic, the international convention included Al-Anon, and at some point after that, that the Al-Anons decided to break off and have their own convention and s- began to separate. So I think that maybe that separation- Well- ... that you're talking about might have become more pronounced later on. It, here's what happened. There was a, there was a group of, uh, NAA, Non-Alcoholics Anonymous members in Toronto, Canada, okay?

55:33

Unknown And at AA's first international conference held in Cleveland in 1950... Now, understand Al-Anon did not form as Al-Anon until '51, okay? 1950, six women were invited to speak at the Alcoholics Anonymous convention held in Cleveland. They gave their talks, and it was shortly after that that Al-Anon formulated. So these little pockets of non-AA members were getting together and using the 12 steps and beginning to learn about the 12 traditions, which were adopted at that convention. Um, on our website, Recovery Speakers, there's a good chance you can find those talks from those six women. If they're not there, we can get them up there. The other thing is, is you can look at the 1955 international convention. We have a host of talks on there, and you can see if there's any Al-Anon, uh, participation. But I do think Al-Anon participated in AA's convention, I think up until and maybe a little bit beyond the one that was held in New Orleans in 1970. Yeah, that could be. And r- and the seeds of Al-Anon are actually in the chapter Working with Others. Absolutely. Work- And you know how Al-Anon got its name, correct?

57:11

Unknown Yeah, no, I don't recall. Good. They were- Oh, gosh ... originally calling themselves Alcoholics Anonymous Family Groups. Right. And they shortened it for the AL in Alcoholics and the Anon in Anonymous and called themselves Al-Anon Family Groups. There's a little Al-Anon history for you. Yeah. I had a question about the, the topics tonight. Yeah. And that is first of all, I, I think I've heard the story about why Bill Wri- Bill Wilson wrote Bill Dobson's story, but I don't recall exactly what happened there. Okay. Um, hey Bill, can I, can I lean on you for that? Um, yeah. Thanks, Mac, for the question. I'm just not sure of the details. Uh, I know that Bill Dobson, uh, was one of the people that, that refused to write his story for the Big Book. You know, it, it... We got, uh, you know, all the early members in, in, in the, in the stories that were published in the first edition, but there was no story from Bill Dobson there. There was a lot of controversy going on.

58:44

Moderator Smitty, um, in my book I've got a couple of quotes from Smitty Bob's, Bob Smith's son, uh, about, uh, the reservations that, uh, that, uh, Bill had about sending his story. There was a number of people in Akron at the time that, that, uh, didn't want to put their story in unless they got paid, for instance. And, uh, Smitty was of the school that, uh, Bill, Bill Dobson was one of those people. So when they got to the second edition, Bill Wilson really wanted his story in the second edition. I mean, the, the story's in A Vision For You, but, but there's no supporting story in the back of the book. So he wanted that. So he went out to Akron and he sat down with Bill Dobson and, uh, and had him tell him his story. And, uh, and he, he, he... I don't know if he recorded it, Mike, but he, uh, he went back to New York a- and wrote the story.

60:13

Unknown And, and if you read the story, it actually, it, it shifts from, uh, third person to first person back and forth, and that's because Bill Wilson is acknowledging the fact that he's the guy who wrote that story. Now, having somebody write a story is nothing new for Akron. I mean, you know, Jim Scott was writing stories left and right from the first edition. So, uh, but Bill, Bill Dobson, uh, Bill Dobson refused to put his story in, in, uh, in the first edition of the Big Book. He was one of the many people out in Akron who were, uh, uh, not just, uh, um, non-supportive. That, they were, they were, they were in active revolt. They d- they thought this, the book was a terrible idea. Right. And, and Bill, just one other question, um, Bill. Um, so I know in your book you talk about how I think it was a journalist wrote all the stories for the folks in Akron. Is that right? That would have been Jim Scott. He was, he was, uh, he was a newspaper guy.

61:46

Unknown He had a, a very colorful backstory, had a lot of different jobs, but he was a writer that, uh, Dr. Bob got sobered up. He did not write all the stories by, by any stretch of the imagination, nor did all the stories get typed up at, at Dr. Bob's house. There's, uh, there's, there's at least three handwritten Akron stories in the, in the Stepping Stones archive that, uh, that were never typed up. They're all in different handwriting, so they were actually written by those people. But Bill Wilson was putting a lot of pressure on Dr. Bob to get these stories. He needed stories for the back of the book and they were not forthcoming from the people in Akron. So what Bob Smith did was he got this guy sober, fortunately, who was a writer, and he sent him over to, to, to, you know, uh, Earl...

63:04

Unknown To these different people's houses and, and said, "So, uh, you know, have a, have a cup of coffee and tell me your story." And then he went back and wrote the story up because Bob Smith had the, he just, he just couldn't get as many people to write stories as Bill Wilson was looking for. And Bill Wilson was his sponsor putting the heat on him. So he did what his sponsor told him, he delivered the stories. Thank you, Bill. Wow. You guys can, can see why we're so excited to have Bill come and share with us on June 5th. So I hope you'll all come and, and be part of that meeting. And Bill Dobson never got to see his story. So he did allow Bill Wilson to write the story, but, uh, the, the second edition, uh, publication, the Big Book, didn't come out and was presented until the International Convention, which was held in St. Louis in 1955. And that's when Bill D's story first appeared.

64:35

Moderator Um, and I think that, you know, if he had knowledge that his illness was fatal, he may have had some time to think about the contribution that his story might make. And allowing Wilson to, to write it, I think w- was, was a great credit to Bill Wilson too, because a lot of the folks in Akron, um, had some strong feelings against Wilson. And here, AA number three allowing Wilson to write- write his story to me really gave a testimony of validating his feelings toward AA New York and Bill Wilson, and it was not a divided, it was really a unification of Alcoholics Anonymous. And that, that's what I saw there. And I, uh, and I, and I know I'm just dying to pick Bill's brain. It's 6:59. Tim, do we have anything left we're sharing? I don't think so, but I think I see a couple people that might have questions here. Okay. Um, yeah Go ahead and throw them out. We'll go a couple minutes over. Nobody? Hi, Mike. It's Ted up in Ontario. Hi, Ted.

66:11

Unknown Um, yeah, I was one of those Canadians that was trying to rob you, and I actually had some of those wire recordings in my hand. I just won- Yeah, right. Um, I, I just wonder, uh, how, how long would the tape, or sorry, the wire recordings be, and what would maybe the content be of, of it? Like, just a general idea of what they talked about and about how long each one was. Very good. Um, I think some of the longer ones were, were an hour, maybe a little longer. Okay? Um, most of the wire recordings that I have are later. Um, and when I say later, they're, they're like the '50s. Okay? So they were still using them then. Um, but the, the original ones I had was 13 that belonged to Bill Wilson. Okay? And these were exchanges between him and George Hood, and some notes that Bill did, him playing the violin, the, the recording from the Smiths to him. There's a recording from South Africa from the groups that started there sharing with Bill.

67:43

Unknown So the, the recordings are, were cool, but there are only 13 of them, and, uh, a couple of them are, are, have been donated, and all the rest of them are being donated to Stepping Stones. And, uh, I, I wanna share with you that Stepping Stones is having their annual picnic, um, on Zoom, and I think it's the June 6th. Bill, do you know the date? Is it June 6th? No, I don't, I don't think it is June 6th, uh, Mike. I think it's a couple of, uh, so at least a week after that. But there's, they're, they're asking people to register. It's free to register, and if you just go to the Stepping Stones website, all the information is there. Okay. It is June 6th. Okay. They're, they're sending out... Yeah, it's June 6th. Thanks, Win. So I, I, I would, uh, petition all of you to, uh, go to Stepping Stones website, sign up for that, maybe make a small contribution. They can always use our support.

69:18

Unknown And, uh, and, and Sally's doing a great job up there, and I just think that, uh, you know, we're gonna actually invite her on, um, this fall to talk about Stepping Stones as a project and as a foundation, and what Lois' vision for Stepping Stones was when she created it. So that's one of the things that, that's on my list of, of things that we wanna do with this meeting. So I, uh, I did a meeting at 2:30 this afternoon for a group in Myrtle Beach, and it was a high energy meeting about my story and trying to inspire people, and I want you to know that I'm spent. So I, I'm done for the night. Thank you guys for joining us. Next week we're gonna have clips of George Hood, Clarence S., Archie Trowbridge. Wow. And who knows who else we might come up with. Next week at 6:00 PM Pacific, 9:00 PM, uh, Eastern, please join us. I love you guys. Thanks for being part of this. Thanks, Mike. Thank you. Thank you, all. Thank you, Mike. Take care, bye. Good to see you, Bill. Take care. Thank you, Bill.

70:59

Unknown God bless you guys. Thanks, Bill. What a breath of fresh air. Thank you. Thank you so much from Minneapolis and St. Paul. Thank you, Mike. Thanks, Mike. Hey, Mike. Hey. Hey, Mike. Good to see you. How are you? I'm great. How are you? Thanks for all the texts. Yeah, thank you. Uh, it means a lot to get just little messages here and there from people. Always picks up my spirits. Yeah, that was so much fun. Makes me realize, oh, yeah, I'm connected to people. So much fun to have you here in LA recently. Yeah, yeah. That was great. Thanks, Mike. I, I wish I could hop in the car and drive out. Yeah. Thanks. Mahalo to all of you- All right ... from beautiful Hawaii. Hope to see you next week. Oh, nice. Yeah. Wow. Thanks, Mike. Matt. Talk to you later. Check out the website. Thanks so much, Mike. So long, Mike. So long, Kelly. Next week at 6:00 PM Pacific, 9:00 PM, uh, Eastern, please join us. I love you guys. Thanks for being part of this. Thanks, Mike. Thank you. Thank you, all. Thank you, Mike. Take care, bye.

72:35

Unknown Good to see you, Bill. Take care. Thank you, Bill. God bless you guys. Thanks, Bill. What a breath of fresh air. Thank you. Thank you so much from Minneapolis and St. Paul. Thank you, Mike. Thanks, Mike. Hey, Mike. Hey. Hey, Mike. Good to see you. How are you? I'm great. How are you? Thanks for all the texts. Yeah, thank you. Uh, it means a lot to get just little messages here and there from people. Always picks up my spirits. Yeah, that was so much fun. Makes me realize, oh, yeah, I'm connected to people. So much fun to have you here in LA recently. Yeah, yeah. That was great. Thanks, Mike. I, I wish I could hop in the car and drive out. Yeah. Thanks. Mahalo to all of you- All right ... from beautiful Hawaii. Hope to see you next week. Oh, nice. Yeah. Wow. Thanks, Mike. Matt. Talk to you later. Check out the website. Thanks so much, Mike. So long, Mike. So long, Kelly.

The following is an AI-generated transcript. Minor errors may occur. The audio is the authoritative source.

AA History Zoom Meeting — May 22, 2020

AA History Zoom Meeting — May 22, 2020

Interactive Transcript

Guest Reflections

Leave a Reply Cancel reply