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[00:00:02.660 – 00:00:03.620] So we're at that place again. [00:00:03.620 – 00:00:04.220] Good evening, everyone. [00:00:04.220 – 00:00:05.820] My name is David and I'm alcoholic. [00:00:05.820 – 00:00:10.680] I, I'd like to welcome you to this open air recovery workshop with Q&A, and Vicky B. [00:00:10.680 – 00:00:12.240] is stepping in tonight for Stuart. [00:00:12.240 – 00:00:12.780] Hello, Vicky. [00:00:12.780 – 00:00:13.940] Nice to have you here.

[00:00:13.940 – 00:00:17.360] Vicky's there, I see her. [00:00:17.360 – 00:00:18.260] Hi, sorry. [00:00:18.260 – 00:00:19.360] Couldn't unmute. [00:00:19.360 – 00:00:19.900] Hi, everyone. [00:00:19.900 – 00:00:22.810] That's… [00:00:22.810 – 00:00:23.310] Thanks, Vicky. [00:00:23.310 – 00:00:28.920] So this is a series, one of a series of workshops which has been inspired by recoveryspeakers.com.

[00:00:28.920 – 00:00:33.550] It's like Aladdin's Cave of recovery if you ever wanna go over there, recoveryspeakers.com. [00:00:33.550 – 00:00:40.080] And it's hosted by the Saturday night A Group here in London, um, SC5, although I'm being in, I'm in Waterford at the moment. [00:00:40.080 – 00:00:43.800] But it's the Saturday night group in, in London that's hosting this. [00:00:43.800 – 00:00:47.120] And we meet on Saturday night in a physical space in Camberwell. [00:00:47.120 – 00:00:49.000] I'm on holidays at the moment. [00:00:49.000 – 00:00:56.310] In keeping with A's traditions, in particular tradition five, each A Group has but one primary purpose: to carry its message to the alcoholics who are still suffering. [00:00:56.310 – 00:01:06.380] Now, the main purpose of these workshops is to introduce and/or develop ideas and concepts and hopefully to encourage participants to do some further investigation on their

[00:01:06.380 – 00:01:06.720] own. [00:01:06.720 – 00:01:08.740] And tonight we have Mr. [00:01:08.740 – 00:01:10.580] Patrick O'Debeck again, and Patrick is gonna… [00:01:10.580 – 00:01:13.200] We had Patrick last week, and what a great response. [00:01:13.200 – 00:01:17.520] I've got email after email, Patrick, saying how much they enjoyed last week's presentation. [00:01:17.520 – 00:01:20.380] So we're saying if, if this week's is half as good, we'll be well chuffed. [00:01:20.380 – 00:01:23.960] Thank you very much for coming along, Patrick, to do a talk on…

[00:01:23.960 – 00:01:25.290] What are you doing on tonight, Patrick? [00:01:25.290 – 00:01:26.880] Sam S.. [00:01:26.880 – 00:01:29.480] Sam S., the man who stood at the door, I believe. [00:01:29.480 – 00:01:34.150] Now, we've had a common thread throughout, uh, these workshops, and it's been going. [00:01:34.150 – 00:01:36.360] Gary, who was here with us in the ve- very early days. [00:01:36.360 – 00:01:36.560] We'd… [00:01:36.560 – 00:01:38.979] Gary done, done a talk for us as well.

[00:01:38.979 – 00:01:39.330] We'll… [00:01:39.330 – 00:01:42.500] I've put some links in the chat for you if you wanna follow up those. [00:01:42.500 – 00:01:45.660] Um, it was great to have you in the beginning, Gary. [00:01:45.660 – 00:01:55.200] And the common thread throughout has been we've entered the world of the spirit, that our next function is to grow in understanding and effectiveness, and it's fair to say we've been growing a, a lot. [00:01:55.200 – 00:02:05.220] Uh, the audio of tonight's presentation is being recorded, and we pass it over to, um, Mike K. at recoveryspeakers.com, and I will also put a link [00:02:05.220 – 00:02:06.200] for that into the chat. [00:02:06.200 – 00:02:08.049] So thank you, Mike, for doing that for us.

[00:02:08.049 – 00:02:14.109] Uh, we would like to point out that what is shared at these workshop meetings represents the experience, strength, and hope of A.M. [00:02:14.109 – 00:02:17.640] members and not, not to be taken to represent the fellowship as a whole. [00:02:17.640 – 00:02:25.960] 12-step proven program of recovery can be found in our basic textbook titled Alcoholics Anonymous, which we fondly call The Big Book. [00:02:25.960 – 00:02:33.700] Now, if you'd like to unmute yourself, we're gonna go into a, a version of the Serenade prayer. [00:02:33.700 – 00:02:36.160] And it's the short version, very succinct. [00:02:36.160 – 00:02:39.300] Now, if you'd like to unmute, I believe you can unmute. [00:02:39.300 – 00:02:42.080] Um, we'd start with using God as you understand him.

[00:02:42.080 – 00:02:43.740] God. [00:02:43.740 – 00:02:44.980] God. [00:02:44.980 – 00:02:45.890] God. [00:02:45.890 – 00:02:46.340] Please. [00:02:46.340 – 00:02:51.489] Please help me to set aside- To set aside- Everything I think I know … [00:02:51.489 – 00:02:55.260] everything I think I know For naught is my mind- For naught is my mind- In your experience … [00:02:55.260 – 00:02:56.130] in your experience.

[00:02:56.130 – 00:02:56.580] Amen. [00:02:56.580 – 00:02:56.690] Amen. [00:02:56.690 – 00:03:00.260] And we'll just have a few moments silence to gather our thoughts and reflect on why we're here. [00:03:00.260 – 00:03:05.980] And to think of those alcoholics who are still suffering from alcoholism, and our family members. [00:03:05.980 – 00:03:06.700] Thank you. [00:03:06.700 – 00:03:21.000] Thank [00:03:21.000 – 00:03:21.720] you, everyone.

[00:03:21.720 – 00:03:27.820] And without further ado, Patrick, we're gonna go straight over to you. [00:03:27.820 – 00:03:30.810] Over to you, Patrick. [00:03:30.810 – 00:03:31.220] Thank you. [00:03:31.220 – 00:03:32.700] Okay. [00:03:32.700 – 00:03:33.480] We're ready to go. [00:03:33.480 – 00:03:35.120] This is gonna run a full hour. [00:03:35.120 – 00:03:37.240] Uh, my name's Pat, I'm an alcoholic.

[00:03:37.240 – 00:03:39.620] I'm a member of the Park S. Group in downtown Boston. [00:03:39.620 – 00:03:46.420] My sobriety date is the 4th of November, 1980, and, uh, I'm happy to be here. [00:03:46.420 – 00:03:48.260] I'm happy to be here. [00:03:48.260 – 00:03:56.900] Uh, tonight we're gonna talk about Sam S., who, uh, is one of the, an example of God's non-alcoholic hand in Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:03:56.900 – 00:03:59.640] Sometimes we forget that we didn't get here by ourselves. [00:03:59.640 – 00:04:04.380] We had an awful lot of people that went ahead and helped us out, and Sam was one of those guys. [00:04:04.380 – 00:04:14.430] Uh, Mike F. talks about the slender threads that run through, uh, the fabric of Alcoholics Anonymous, and, uh, you gotta note that not all of the threads were alcoholic.

[00:04:14.430 – 00:04:17.360] Uh, Sam S. was much more than a thread, though. [00:04:17.360 – 00:04:19.079] He was a golden thread or a cable. [00:04:19.079 – 00:04:26.080] He brought, uh, stability, experience, and influence into the mix as A, of AA as it was being conceived and developed. [00:04:26.080 – 00:04:36.220] In AA's times of need, Sam demonstrated a wonderful empathy while sharing his faith, hope, and guidance and knowledge of, in building a platform on which [00:04:36.220 – 00:04:40.340] the spir- spiritual solution to man's alcohol problem could be built. [00:04:40.340 – 00:04:44.900] He left few fingerprints in Alcoholics Anonymous on purpose. [00:04:44.900 – 00:04:54.930] Um, if you read his books, you listen to his talks, there aren't many around, review his life, I find it h- impossible to separate, uh, this man of

[00:04:54.930 – 00:04:57.900] God from the founding themes of Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:04:57.900 – 00:05:02.460] His, his words remain uncredited in Alcoholics Anonymous, as he wished. [00:05:02.460 – 00:05:05.620] He was just trying to do what God guided him to do. [00:05:05.620 – 00:05:13.100] Sam had this, a soft voice, and he also had a soft touch in the, um, known as the breeze of the Holy S.. [00:05:13.100 – 00:05:22.600] Uh, may be surprising to AAs, but S.'s role in the formation of Alcoholics Anonymous was only an asterisk in his life, only a footnote section. [00:05:22.600 – 00:05:26.670] Uh, his poem I Stand by the Door encourages sufferers to en- [00:05:26.780 – 00:05:30.680] Enter and join with others in the fellowship of doing the right thing.

[00:05:30.680 – 00:05:33.900] Thanks. [00:05:33.900 – 00:05:42.440] Uh, from his earliest interaction, uh, in the, uh, ear- in the early 1900s, uh, mid 19… [00:05:42.440 – 00:05:42.680] The… [00:05:42.680 – 00:05:50.080] I guess it was around 1915, uh, he had an interaction with the Emmanuel M., then he moved on to the Jacoby C.. [00:05:50.080 – 00:05:57.200] Later on, he encountered Frank B. in First C. Christianity, the Oxford Group, and Courtney B.. [00:05:57.200 – 00:06:07.280] From his time in New York, he spent time with Richard P., Harry H., Sam C., Franklin C., Charlie C., Roland H., and Victor K.. [00:06:07.280 – 00:06:16.880] Uh, and then out in Akron, in the Akron group, he knew Jim N., Walter T., the Firestones, Henrietta S., and Dr.

[00:06:16.880 – 00:06:22.600] Bob and his wife, uh, until, until, uh, Sam passed away in 1963. [00:06:22.600 – 00:06:26.240] Uh, at, at his, uh, family home. [00:06:26.240 – 00:06:33.140] Uh, he was the most prominent and consistently present non-alcoholic involved in the founding and development of Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:06:33.140 – 00:06:38.640] He was always ready to help, and that's why he wrote that poem I'll S- I Stand By T. Door. [00:06:38.640 – 00:06:41.320] He was waiting for those who seek us. [00:06:41.320 – 00:06:45.420] Uh, um, this is a basic, uh… [00:06:45.420 – 00:06:50.280] This is from Bill W.'s talk, and you have to have an open mind on this stuff.

[00:06:50.280 – 00:07:00.680] Uh, but this is from Bill W.'s talk in the, uh, part of the, uh, Three T. to Medical S., which the College of Cardinals has decided not to [00:07:00.680 – 00:07:01.460] print anymore. [00:07:01.460 – 00:07:11.460] But anyway, he said at the, in 1946, "At the very outset, we would like to make it ever so clear that AA is a synthetic concept, a synthetic gadget [00:07:11.460 – 00:07:19.060] as it were, drawing upon the resources of medicine, psychiatry, religion, and our own experience of drinking and recovery. [00:07:19.060 – 00:07:22.520] You will search in vain for a single new fundamental. [00:07:22.520 – 00:07:31.560] We have merely streamlined the old and proven, proven principles of psychiatry and religion into such forms that the alcoholic will accept them. [00:07:31.560 – 00:07:42.200] And we have created a society of its own kind where he can enthusiastically put these very principles to work on himself and to other sufferers." Um,

[00:07:42.200 – 00:07:47.320] the Shoemakers came to the United States in the 1700s, and they settled in the Mid-Atlantic states. [00:07:47.320 – 00:07:47.760] Uh, they… [00:07:47.760 – 00:07:49.500] In and around Philadelphia, et cetera. [00:07:49.500 – 00:07:59.900] Um, his descendants included a mayor of Philadelphia, the founder of the Great W. Express, um, Baltimore clipper ship owners, businessmen, lawyers, legislators, [00:07:59.900 – 00:08:04.380] judges, academics, and educators in the Maryland area. [00:08:04.380 – 00:08:11.080] Um, in the late 1860s, they settled in Green S. Valley just north of Baltimore when his father acquired a, a, uh, farm. [00:08:11.080 – 00:08:12.880] That's must've been right after the Civil W..

[00:08:12.880 – 00:08:20.690] Um, a large gentleman's estate farm of over s- over 500 acres that remained in the S. family until the late 1920… [00:08:20.690 – 00:08:22.510] Until the late 20th century. [00:08:22.510 – 00:08:25.320] Um, they were backbones of their community. [00:08:25.320 – 00:08:32.900] Um, they were, uh, members of the Episcopal C., and Sam was raised in a faith-centered Low E. extended family. [00:08:32.900 – 00:08:37.120] All of them lived on that, uh, on that, uh, farm that they had. [00:08:37.120 – 00:08:41.080] Uh, he learned to seek God's inspiration and guidance very early on. [00:08:41.080 – 00:08:42.160] Michelle, did you call?

[00:08:42.160 – 00:08:45.860] Yeah, but I accidentally You gotta have somebody shut that off, will you? [00:08:45.860 – 00:08:49.320] Got it, Patrick. [00:08:49.320 – 00:08:50.180] Okay. [00:08:50.180 – 00:08:59.300] Sam learned early on to seek God's inspiration and guidance by observing his family and faithfully performing daily service to others. [00:08:59.300 – 00:09:09.300] Uh, with that, with fi- quiet family wealth, and they were wealthy, uh, Sam never seemed restricted by the lack of funds as he traveled extensively [00:09:09.300 – 00:09:11.260] following the paths he believed necessary. [00:09:11.260 – 00:09:20.090] The family, uh, were very involved in the community, like I said, and, and one of their hobbies was going ahead and decorating churches.

[00:09:20.090 – 00:09:22.520] Not just the one that they used, but other churches. [00:09:22.520 – 00:09:32.500] They had greenhouses on this estate and, uh, and they used to go up, and they'd go into Baltimore actually and, and, and, and, and decorate churches as well as the local ones. [00:09:32.500 – 00:09:39.040] Uh, Sam learned from his family how to be adaptable, and he bloomed where he was planted. [00:09:39.040 – 00:09:41.940] In his writings and his biographies, it's interesting. [00:09:41.940 – 00:09:49.360] There's no mention of any alcoholism or problem drinking within his family, nor any indication that Sam was a regular drinker. [00:09:49.360 – 00:09:54.530] Uh, to broaden his mind, his family sent him off to the, uh, St. [00:09:54.530 – 00:10:01.560] George's School in, uh, Rhode I. in 1908, where he began his academic and spiritual career.

[00:10:01.560 – 00:10:04.960] Um, and he made some lifetime contacts. [00:10:04.960 – 00:10:08.680] He started to establish his own codes and relationships. [00:10:08.680 – 00:10:18.860] While he was there, uh, with some of the other elites in his tribe, this is around 1908 through 1915, included [00:10:18.860 – 00:10:29.020] Richmond W., who wrote the 24-Hour book, Thomas H., and Prescott B., the, uh, grandfather of George W. Bush and the great-grandfather of the other Bush. [00:10:29.020 – 00:10:30.820] Uh, they were all there. [00:10:30.820 – 00:10:33.380] So these people traveled in that type of society. [00:10:33.380 – 00:10:34.879] It was, it was pretty fancy.

[00:10:34.879 – 00:10:43.940] Uh, now, while they were there, right afterwards, this was, this church was, this, uh, school was formed in the, uh, late 1800s. [00:10:43.940 – 00:10:53.410] Uh, but, uh, just to set the table, after the Civil W. and into the early 1900s, uh, men of faith revisited first century- [00:10:53.500 – 00:10:54.520] Re-Christianity. [00:10:54.520 – 00:11:00.140] And, uh, they started to reintroduce the concept of lay evangelism and unchurched Christianity. [00:11:00.140 – 00:11:06.280] Uh, unchurched movements, uh, downplayed the liturgy and the clergy and the hellfire sermons. [00:11:06.280 – 00:11:11.490] They, they testified on their own experiences and, and they did not go to seminaries. [00:11:11.490 – 00:11:14.800] They c- they, most of them came from business and education, et cetera.

[00:11:14.800 – 00:11:24.800] Uh, religious his- this Bible-based, uh, they, they, uh, they shared openly about Christ and the Holy S. at large gatherings as [00:11:24.800 – 00:11:26.840] well as in small groups, and they traveled. [00:11:26.840 – 00:11:27.860] They didn't have a base. [00:11:27.860 – 00:11:37.880] Uh, religious history often returns to, refers to this, uh, part of our, uh, history as the Third G. Christian A. of 1880 to 8- [00:11:37.880 – 00:11:38.900] to 1920. [00:11:38.900 – 00:11:43.660] They believed that men connected to God through Christ and the Holy S. directly. [00:11:43.660 – 00:11:46.280] There was no need for an intermediary anymore.

[00:11:46.280 – 00:11:50.860] Sam was born into the Third G. Christian A., and he belonged there. [00:11:50.860 – 00:11:59.300] He was a reman- reman- reborn man who carried the good news and tried to help others find Christ, uh, and that was evangelism. [00:11:59.300 – 00:12:05.300] Uh, as a student, he went off to the, the, uh, Northfield B. Conferences. [00:12:05.300 – 00:12:09.060] Dwight M. was one of the pioneer evangelists from the United States. [00:12:09.060 – 00:12:15.300] He actually was, uh, owned a big shoe business at one time, and he was, he was famous in, in the United States and Europe. [00:12:15.300 – 00:12:25.480] He started the Northfield B. Conference on the school of, of which is now N- Northfield M. Hermon, um, in, in Massachusetts, not far from where he grew up. [00:12:25.480 – 00:12:35.500] And, uh, in the summertime, they had, uh, these classes there and, and kids camped all over the place, and teams of laymen came and carried their Christian message, and then they went

[00:12:35.500 – 00:12:35.690] off. [00:12:35.690 – 00:12:45.240] Among the people that he ran into, and some of these names might be familiar to you, was, uh, uh, you know, Stamp came under the influence of these. [00:12:45.240 – 00:12:46.400] These guys were rock stars. [00:12:46.400 – 00:12:51.260] They were, they were very, very well known, and they, they were on the front page of the newspapers and the magazines. [00:12:51.260 – 00:12:53.980] Uh, Robert E. Speer was one. [00:12:53.980 – 00:13:00.250] Uh, he was the one that, that wrote the, uh, the, the f- the, uh they were, The Four Absolutes. [00:13:00.250 – 00:13:08.640] John M., Sherwood E., all evangelists who recruited the young men from the elite schools to convince them to give their life to Christ.

[00:13:08.640 – 00:13:17.040] Uh, the conferences a- attracted the best and brightest from all over, uh, the, all over the Northeast in particular. [00:13:17.040 – 00:13:22.880] And they spent time on this, on the, uh, their camping and sharing their experience, and they started to get… [00:13:22.880 – 00:13:30.400] It was almost a, a group, um, I'm not gonna say hysteria, but they, they all, they, they all joined in. [00:13:30.400 – 00:13:31.800] It was a spiritual movement. [00:13:31.800 – 00:13:33.340] They, they were part of a new team. [00:13:33.340 – 00:13:43.070] Uh, a lot of this was inspired by the, uh, Cambridge S. Missionaries, which had come through the United States on the way to China in the, uh, 1885. [00:13:43.070 – 00:13:53.300] And these guys were all the, the best athletes from Oxford and Cambridge, and they decided as a group to go ahead and to be, start missionary

[00:13:53.300 – 00:13:58.200] work, and they inspired Moody to ask the students to go ahead and to, to follow them. [00:13:58.200 – 00:14:07.280] Uh, these people, some of these guys stayed in China until after World W. II, so they were there from the, from 1900 until 1945. [00:14:07.280 – 00:14:10.400] Uh, and they, they, they just weren't flashes in the pan. [00:14:10.400 – 00:14:13.460] They didn't go for a, for a summer break or something like that. [00:14:13.460 – 00:14:16.480] They stayed, and they, they, they made their mark. [00:14:16.480 – 00:14:27.420] Uh, and that caused Moody to go ahead and encourage people to form the Student V. Movement, which, which was a loc- uh, American-based, [00:14:27.420 – 00:14:37.420] uh, faith atmosphere of young lay missionaries replacing clergy and bringing aggressive personal Christian wi- uh, Christian witnessing around the

[00:14:37.420 – 00:14:37.820] world. [00:14:37.820 – 00:14:47.989] The Student Volunteer M. went off to the Americas, Europe, Asia, and this spiritual imperialism brought a new age of political, racial, social, and religious [00:14:47.989 – 00:14:49.230] cooperation around the world. [00:14:49.230 – 00:14:54.840] Favorite targets of these guys was Turkey, China, India, and Japan. [00:14:54.840 – 00:15:04.600] Uh, they, uh, I, I don't know when that song, Onward C. Soldiers, was, uh, was written, but it, it seems to me that these are the type of guys that would've been doing it. [00:15:04.600 – 00:15:10.580] And it was replicated later on by, uh, the marching of the Oxford Group people under Frank B.. [00:15:10.580 – 00:15:14.500] But some of their chants were, uh, follow Christ in character and career.

[00:15:14.500 – 00:15:16.840] Every man's life is a plan of God. [00:15:16.840 – 00:15:18.280] That's by Horace B.. [00:15:18.280 – 00:15:21.160] Pray, think and ask, and then do the right thing. [00:15:21.160 – 00:15:22.460] Act decisively. [00:15:22.460 – 00:15:31.420] Dwight M., and he used to say, "Once you make that decision, don't you dare go ahead and, and turn back." You go ahead because you made it with the right a- right attitude. [00:15:31.420 – 00:15:39.900] Uh, they practiced prayer and meditation, and they said that the secret to a successful Christian life was prayer and meditation. [00:15:39.900 – 00:15:44.020] The Morning Watch, not invented by Alcoholics Anonymous.

[00:15:44.020 – 00:15:51.100] Actually, the first person I heard writing about it, besides the Jesuits and a lot of people that, that used to do morning prayers, was Dr. [00:15:51.100 – 00:15:55.600] Moule of the Seventh D. Ad- Adventist, and he was the one that gave it to Johnny M.. [00:15:55.600 – 00:15:57.540] Um, F.B. [00:15:57.540 – 00:16:05.080] Meyer was a great influence of Frank B. and a lot of people at the, in the early part of the, of the, uh, 20th century. [00:16:05.080 – 00:16:15.240] And, uh, this was just when things was, radio was being invented, and telegraph was working, and stuff like that, and he was a big proponent of long periods of quiet meditation. [00:16:15.240 – 00:16:20.020] He said, "God will send you signals, but you need to have a clean receiving instrument." [00:16:20.600 – 00:16:24.000] And two-way prayer was practiced by these people, including H.B.

[00:16:24.000 – 00:16:25.300] Wright and the Jesuits. [00:16:25.300 – 00:16:27.820] Sam went on to Princeton after St. [00:16:27.820 – 00:16:35.619] George's, and, uh, he was an excellent student, active in campus ministry and politics, and he reinforced his missionary calling. [00:16:35.619 – 00:16:45.700] While he was there, he must have been a good student because he accepted a couple of positions with the, uh, with, with the YMCA and he went down and became a lay missionary to [00:16:45.700 – 00:16:52.140] the, uh, troops on the Mexican border, which was, which, uh, in 1916 they were chasing after Pancho V.. [00:16:52.140 – 00:16:53.660] There were a lot of young guys down there. [00:16:53.660 – 00:16:58.040] They had been activated and, uh, and he went down there carrying the message.

[00:16:58.040 – 00:17:07.460] Uh, and, uh, then he came back to Princeton and then he was sent off to, uh, to England where he, where he worked with the British F. Corps, counseling pilots who were coming back. [00:17:07.460 – 00:17:10.780] And he had, uh, some very spiritual experiences while he was there. [00:17:10.780 – 00:17:12.600] Now, he wasn't the only person doing it. [00:17:12.600 – 00:17:14.560] This is an article from a newspaper. [00:17:14.560 – 00:17:23.420] There were, I think there were 27 faculty and, and, uh, students who volunteered for YMCA service in France and England during World W. I. [00:17:23.420 – 00:17:33.520] Um, when he came back, he, uh, he started to pursue, uh, his missionary wheel and Sherwood E. suggested he go ahead and try [00:17:33.520 – 00:17:35.020] the Princeton in China program.

[00:17:35.020 – 00:17:45.320] Princeton used to run a building that was there on the side, and they taught people in China E. and business, et cetera, and, um, and they, and they established contacts. [00:17:45.320 – 00:17:55.500] A lot of this, um, ironically, was underwritten by a lot of the big businessmen in the United States at the time because not only did they wanna go ahead and convert the, most [00:17:55.500 – 00:18:02.720] of the Chinese people to, uh, to, uh, Christianity, but they also wanted to build some business contacts. [00:18:02.720 – 00:18:12.920] Uh, while he was in, in, in China, he, he had heard of Frank B. and he– Sam wasn't making any real good converts, [00:18:12.920 – 00:18:18.320] so he sought out Frank, who was traveling nearby, and, and went to talk to him and asked him what was wrong. [00:18:18.320 – 00:18:24.100] Frank was a, a rising controversial evangelist with roots in the YMCA. [00:18:24.100 – 00:18:25.160] Keswick, H.B.

[00:18:25.160 – 00:18:28.160] Wright and Meyer, people I talked about before. [00:18:28.160 – 00:18:38.260] And, uh, B. told Sam that the problem was him, that he didn't have any humility, he was complacent, uh, and, uh, he sh- he sh- and that Sam's sin stood in the way [00:18:38.260 – 00:18:40.420] of his converting new prospects to Christ. [00:18:40.420 – 00:18:43.020] And they told him to straighten himself out. [00:18:43.020 – 00:18:47.460] He was– and then there was a problem surrendering his will to Christ. [00:18:47.460 – 00:18:57.480] He said, "Seek G.'s daily guidance with quiet times and prayer and meditation, and then sit back and listen." Sam recoiled from this immediately, then he said, "Maybe [00:18:57.480 – 00:18:59.240] this guy has something," and he tried it.

[00:18:59.240 – 00:19:05.820] And then he followed the example of, of, uh, of trying to be humble, and he started a… [00:19:05.820 – 00:19:10.500] Uh, he did a deep moral inventory and made a complete re-surrender to Christ. [00:19:10.500 – 00:19:12.340] He thought he had already re-surrendered. [00:19:12.340 – 00:19:15.040] Uh, admitted his sins to another person. [00:19:15.040 – 00:19:19.480] He continued to seek God's guidance, and he began listening for direction. [00:19:19.480 – 00:19:27.860] And B. pushed Sam into a total spiritual reset and, and Sam became– He was on fire before, but he became even more. [00:19:27.860 – 00:19:38.400] Um, so he's, his, uh, he began seeking and receiving God's guidance on a regular basis, and, and his con-conversion prospect responded

[00:19:38.400 – 00:19:39.709] as never before. [00:19:39.709 – 00:19:47.700] S., uh, had adopted B.'s conversion process, the, which had been learned from Moody and M-Meyer, H.B. [00:19:47.700 – 00:19:48.440] Wright and others. [00:19:48.440 – 00:19:49.960] B. was funny. [00:19:49.960 – 00:19:51.580] He really liked sound bites. [00:19:51.580 – 00:19:58.460] It's funny, you don't find many books written by S- by Frank B., al-although people are always talking about the Oxford Group. [00:19:58.460 – 00:19:59.950] He let other people do them.

[00:19:59.950 – 00:20:01.000] But he liked… [00:20:01.000 – 00:20:04.739] He was a good speaker, evidently, and he used– he likes sound bites. [00:20:04.739 – 00:20:14.940] And one of the, one of the things that he grabbed, whether he invented it or, or, or, or just took ownership of it, were the five C's of, uh, in order to, to help people [00:20:14.940 – 00:20:16.020] go ahead and convert. [00:20:16.020 – 00:20:20.500] And that was confidence, confession, conviction, conversion, and continuance. [00:20:20.500 – 00:20:23.360] Keeping up with daily prayer and quiet time. [00:20:23.360 – 00:20:29.260] We seeks God's guidance and ask for strength to carry out God's will through each and every day.

[00:20:29.260 – 00:20:32.160] Now, there's a line in the big book that falls right along through this. [00:20:32.160 – 00:20:42.239] It says, "We earnestly pray for the right idea, for guidance in each questionable situation, for sanity, and for the strength to do the right thing." I don't think it was invented when the [00:20:42.239 – 00:20:43.060] big book was written. [00:20:43.060 – 00:20:44.580] I think it existed before. [00:20:44.580 – 00:20:49.020] Uh, he found God in all things and carried this message to others through love and action. [00:20:49.020 – 00:20:59.080] B. molded his process into a, into a, a group called his First C. Christian F., which later on came to be known as the Oxford Group. [00:20:59.080 – 00:21:01.600] Sam returned to Princeton and became head of their…

[00:21:01.600 – 00:21:10.460] There was a, uh, lay, uh, religious society called the Philadelphia S., and, and Sam was asked to be the director of it, and he was that for a couple of years. [00:21:10.460 – 00:21:20.760] And, and while he was at that, actually, he, he really, uh, he, he brought– He said, "I, I know a guy that can really set you people up," and he brought Frank B. onto the campus [00:21:20.760 – 00:21:23.000] at the, at Princeton. [00:21:23.000 – 00:21:27.660] Um, and he, he himself practiced the one-on-one conversion process. [00:21:27.660 – 00:21:37.820] Uh, and Frank showed up on the campus with a bunch of his other teammates, and they were very aggressive evangelists, and they were witnessing on the campus and they caused [00:21:37.820 – 00:21:38.700] a lot of racket. [00:21:38.700 – 00:21:44.060] Evident– You know, there's all types of myths about public confessions and confrontations, et cetera.

[00:21:44.060 – 00:21:46.860] Uh, I don't know what was being said [00:21:47.230 – 00:21:51.160] said, but Bookman was certainly, was soon a persona non grata on the campus. [00:21:51.160 – 00:21:59.960] The president banned him for a while, um, because of graphic public confessions and the team's confrontational style of challenging sinners. [00:21:59.960 – 00:22:09.440] Um, Bookman claimed that there were hostile factions spreading rumors about his team's aggressive behavior and naming students sinners, deviants, homosexuals. [00:22:09.440 – 00:22:12.020] He still was not welcome at Princeton for years. [00:22:12.020 – 00:22:20.240] Uh, Sam continued on his path, became a deacon in the Episcopal C., and pursued studies in New York City at the General S.. [00:22:20.240 – 00:22:27.180] He was ordained in 1921 and became a curate at Grace E. Church in, uh, in New York City.

[00:22:27.180 – 00:22:37.560] And, uh, in 1924, um, the, uh, head of the church gave him the blessing to go ahead, Fran- he liked that Oxford Group and, and he's, so he left the, uh, [00:22:37.560 – 00:22:43.020] with blessings, he left the Grace C. and he went over to Europe and joined the, uh, the Oxford Group. [00:22:43.020 – 00:22:45.280] Bookman had put together some bigger teams. [00:22:45.280 – 00:22:53.580] Remember, a lot of his strength laid in Europe, but particularly in the, uh, in the, uh, UK college system, Oxford, Cambridge, et cetera. [00:22:53.580 – 00:22:57.820] And, um, so he ha- he was starting to build a good following. [00:22:57.820 – 00:23:00.840] He sought elite associates for his group growing. [00:23:00.840 – 00:23:04.500] He was drawing the best and the brightest for his world missionary work.

[00:23:04.500 – 00:23:07.610] Um, better to convert the top echelons than the lower. [00:23:07.610 – 00:23:08.540] But that was his thing. [00:23:08.540 – 00:23:09.760] He played to the key men. [00:23:09.760 – 00:23:13.100] Get the influencers and the other people will follow. [00:23:13.100 – 00:23:15.920] Um, the Europeans liked their approach. [00:23:15.920 – 00:23:19.920] I don't know what it was, but they liked it and, uh, he was very popular. [00:23:19.920 – 00:23:25.940] Um, Sam admired Bookman's life-changing goals and, uh, and, and like I said, he joined him.

[00:23:25.940 – 00:23:36.080] He was on his way to, uh, to China, by the way of the Middle E., uh, when, uh, and but while he was in Egypt, Sam received some, uh, communication to ask [00:23:36.080 – 00:23:42.520] him to come back to New York to become a rector of the Calvary E. Church on Park A. at 21st Street. [00:23:42.520 – 00:23:43.860] Sam was young. [00:23:43.860 – 00:23:44.900] He had just graduated. [00:23:44.900 – 00:23:51.840] He, he wasn't two years into the clergy and, uh, th- th- this was a, a, an honorable church. [00:23:51.840 – 00:23:53.840] It had fallen on hard times. [00:23:53.840 – 00:23:59.440] This was the church i- in the late 19th century of the Roosevelts, et cetera.

[00:23:59.440 – 00:24:03.920] But then they moved uptown and, and they were left down on 21st Street. [00:24:03.920 – 00:24:06.440] I think the Roosevelts moved to up around 51st. [00:24:06.440 – 00:24:17.160] Um, Sam paused, used the power of prayer and meditation, sought God's guidance, and after a couple of days, he reassessed his priorities and, uh, left [00:24:17.160 – 00:24:20.540] Frank and the Oxford Group people, and he came back to New York City. [00:24:20.540 – 00:24:25.980] Uh, and he took over the, uh, Gran- the Calvary E. Church on Gramercy P.. [00:24:25.980 – 00:24:32.940] Um, the vestry officers wanted to offer Sam a trial for a couple of years to see how he would like it there. [00:24:32.940 – 00:24:34.760] Uh, Sam loved it.

[00:24:34.760 – 00:24:39.709] Uh, he, he, uh, he also, he had always, uh, been tweaking his ministry. [00:24:39.709 – 00:24:41.940] He wasn't afraid to experiment. [00:24:41.940 – 00:24:45.560] He brought God into the lives of his neighbors around Gramercy P.. [00:24:45.560 – 00:24:48.860] He was, he was an outreacher and a, and a challenger. [00:24:48.860 – 00:24:51.720] Uh, he, he started to draw people in. [00:24:51.720 – 00:24:56.440] Uh, he recruited staff from all walks of life and sects to fill the needs of the church. [00:24:56.440 – 00:24:59.260] And most of these people were non-professionals.

[00:24:59.260 – 00:25:01.580] He was following in that lay ministry stuff. [00:25:01.580 – 00:25:07.929] Although he was a, an ordained minister, he liked the, uh, one-on-one personal, uh, lay ministry. [00:25:07.929 – 00:25:16.500] Um, he formed cells of, or affinity groups to help people join together to share common sins and, and, and solution to their problems. [00:25:16.500 – 00:25:21.940] Uh, they, uh, and they sought them through a price share, and they shared their experience, strength, and hope. [00:25:21.940 – 00:25:25.580] Sam was big on the small group, no more than 25 people. [00:25:25.580 – 00:25:30.780] Nobody, no sit- no sitting in Sam's, uh, groups and looking at the back of somebody's head. [00:25:30.780 – 00:25:32.400] You were looking at them face to face.

[00:25:32.400 – 00:25:36.520] And in a lot of his meetings, he didn't even allow tables or, in the, in the room. [00:25:36.520 – 00:25:40.680] Um, and he was putting together people who wouldn't, ordinarily would not mix. [00:25:40.680 – 00:25:47.540] Um, and their solutions, the, the way that these people reacted demonstrated to Sam the power of Christ. [00:25:47.540 – 00:25:57.660] Uh, Sam immediately bought, he put, he sold some of the old property that the church had, uh, that wasn't being used, and he, and he, and he bought the, [00:25:57.660 – 00:26:06.740] uh, he, he built this Calvary Ch- Church hall, it was called Calvary H., in order to house some of the outreach groups that he wanted to do. [00:26:06.740 – 00:26:12.400] So he was a mover and, uh, he, he, he and his staff became facilitators and guides. [00:26:12.400 – 00:26:14.930] They put groups in motion, step back and let them work.

[00:26:14.930 – 00:26:15.660] That's what the… [00:26:15.660 – 00:26:21.099] His, his poem about, uh, standing by the door meant that he didn't go in and direct. [00:26:21.099 – 00:26:24.240] He would just put the people together and let God work in their lives. [00:26:24.240 – 00:26:30.460] That, the building was, was completed in 1928, and it had all different types of things. [00:26:30.460 – 00:26:34.040] It would be the, the equivalent of a, a major community center now. [00:26:34.040 – 00:26:38.960] There are a few buildings that are not unlike this around, scattered around New York City. [00:26:38.960 – 00:26:46.979] I know there's one on the West S. I've been to, um, that, uh, that's spawned by the, uh, a religion, but I mean, they, they have community meetings there.

[00:26:46.979 – 00:26:49.300] Um, it, it's, they don't have chapels. [00:26:49.300 – 00:26:50.680] There's a church down the street. [00:26:50.680 – 00:26:53.320] Um, Sam went ahead. [00:26:53.320 – 00:26:54.720] His, he outreached. [00:26:54.720 – 00:27:01.300] He used to put, he put flyers and, and those signs on trolley cars advertising come to the Calvary C.. [00:27:01.300 – 00:27:07.940] He worked with all of the churches for the common good, and Calvary became the most vibrant church in New York City. [00:27:07.940 – 00:27:13.570] Uh, he reopened the nearby Gallery- Galilee M. that-

[00:27:13.680 – 00:27:17.210] Uh, that was owned, uh, had been owned by the old Calvary C.. [00:27:17.210 – 00:27:23.980] And, uh, and, uh, there was a rooming house next to it called the Ol- Olive T. House, and he opened that as Calvary M.. [00:27:23.980 – 00:27:33.220] And, um, he had, uh, he, he came in, he found a couple of guys, uh, that were, uh, old temperance movement guys. [00:27:33.220 – 00:27:43.900] And they came in and they, uh, they set up the, the, the game in there, and, uh, I think it was, uh, he had, uh, sh- Henry H., and, [00:27:43.900 – 00:27:45.980] uh, Tex, I can't remember his name. [00:27:45.980 – 00:27:50.930] But they catered to the down and outers, and they would have missions, and they would have food, and they would… [00:27:50.930 – 00:27:55.200] There was a safe place for these guys, 'cause a lot of these people were living on the streets.

[00:27:55.200 – 00:27:57.320] Uh, the, um… [00:27:57.320 – 00:28:00.800] Oh, h- here is it. [00:28:00.800 – 00:28:03.960] Henry H. and Tex F. were the guys that he got. [00:28:03.960 – 00:28:13.980] They were– They came out of the sober movements of the m- of the Water S. Mission, et cetera, back in the late 1900s, and they had spent a few years traveling [00:28:13.980 – 00:28:18.170] on the circuit, uh, doing, uh, temperance working and speaking. [00:28:18.170 – 00:28:19.820] And they wanted to return. [00:28:19.820 – 00:28:23.360] They came back into New York, and, and Sam gave them the operation.

[00:28:23.360 – 00:28:25.380] And Sam, Sam stood by the door. [00:28:25.380 – 00:28:27.930] He said, "You guys know how to deal with drunks. [00:28:27.930 – 00:28:29.120] I don't really know how. [00:28:29.120 – 00:28:34.340] Why don't you run it, and I'll be here to provide support?" Sam did not go ahead and give temperance speeches. [00:28:34.340 – 00:28:36.220] That was- that's, uh, another one of those myths. [00:28:36.220 – 00:28:43.960] In fact, um, Calvary M. was, was, was, was well underway, uh, a long time before AA came along. [00:28:43.960 – 00:28:47.380] Uh, the mission residents were down and outers.

[00:28:47.380 – 00:28:50.079] They showed up, they cleaned up, they attended sermons. [00:28:50.079 – 00:28:52.880] They gave them a place to bunk at the inn. [00:28:52.880 – 00:28:55.580] They started to work day work outside. [00:28:55.580 – 00:29:02.279] And, uh, Sam offered the support while Hank and Tex provided the experienced hands. [00:29:02.279 – 00:29:12.160] Gramercy P. was, uh, was where the church was, w- abutted Gramercy P. and also Madison S. Park. [00:29:12.160 – 00:29:16.840] And, uh, Frank, uh, Sam knew that he had to go out and, and, and gather them. [00:29:16.840 – 00:29:23.980] So he used to go ahead and, uh, offer these outside talks on, uh, redemption.

[00:29:23.980 – 00:29:26.020] He used to go and, and speak in the park. [00:29:26.020 – 00:29:36.020] Uh, he, he knew there weren't always simple prayer solutions, that a lot of people didn't go to church, but he wanted to go ahead and he wanted them to be able to find God's help anywhere [00:29:36.020 – 00:29:36.960] they wanted to be. [00:29:36.960 – 00:29:46.980] Uh, he dealt with people who had anxiety and fidelity problems, family problems, uh, sex, drugs, alcohol problems, and, and they were all [00:29:46.980 – 00:29:50.620] welcome to, to seek some, uh, some help at Calvary H.. [00:29:50.620 – 00:29:52.080] He was adaptable. [00:29:52.080 – 00:29:56.520] He could, he could craft his words to go ahead and to, to, to the needs that you have.

[00:29:56.520 – 00:30:05.800] And he, and he, he- his mission was to bring Christ, hope, and Christianity back into the community, uh, wherever they may be, and then he stood back. [00:30:05.800 – 00:30:11.020] He encouraged his tribe to do the same, to bring out, to reach out to God and bring people. [00:30:11.020 – 00:30:14.620] And he wanted to bring Christ to people wherever they were. [00:30:14.620 – 00:30:20.960] Uh, he wrote a book, uh, earl- one of his early books, Children of the Second B., which was written in 1927. [00:30:20.960 – 00:30:30.580] Gives remarkable glimpses, Sam was a great author, by the way, of his ability to vary his approach to those who sought help, and I, I found that a very interesting book. [00:30:30.580 – 00:30:40.700] Uh, Sam himself, he really enjoyed pageantry and ceremony, and he used to lead processions with trumpets and singing, et cetera, right over to Madison [00:30:40.700 – 00:30:45.100] Square during the we- a, a week night, six o'clock at night, and he'd have different people go.

[00:30:45.100 – 00:30:45.920] He was a ham. [00:30:45.920 – 00:30:47.220] He loved the singing. [00:30:47.220 – 00:30:53.880] In fact, in a much later version, there was a Time magazine article that said he was a Gilbert and Sullivan singing minister. [00:30:53.880 – 00:30:57.720] Uh, he, uh, he just wanted to help you out. [00:30:57.720 – 00:30:59.540] He didn't believe his was the only way. [00:30:59.540 – 00:31:02.700] He would direct you wherever, uh, you could find help. [00:31:02.700 – 00:31:05.960] Uh, and he, he, he liked God seekers.

[00:31:05.960 – 00:31:11.860] Uh, he was a recruiter for Christ, not for the Oxford group necessarily, but for all evangelists. [00:31:11.860 – 00:31:15.460] He played well with others, and he worked with people one-on-one. [00:31:15.460 – 00:31:16.620] That was his strength. [00:31:16.620 – 00:31:17.420] Not talking. [00:31:17.420 – 00:31:21.400] He was a great speaker, but he was better off one-on-one. [00:31:21.400 – 00:31:28.940] And his slogan was, "Everyone has a problem, is a problem, or has to live with a problem." I think that's pretty good. [00:31:28.940 – 00:31:33.580] Here's a picture of one of his groups, uh, one of his small living room groups.

[00:31:33.580 – 00:31:38.199] I don't know what the time on this is, but it doesn't make any difference because if this was it. [00:31:38.199 – 00:31:41.640] And he put people together in small groups sharing common problems. [00:31:41.640 – 00:31:44.120] If you notice this room, there aren't any tables in the middle. [00:31:44.120 – 00:31:53.460] These people are sitting on the edge of couches and chairs, and they're balancing coffee cups, but they're developing a, a, a small, uh, connection. [00:31:53.460 – 00:31:57.160] Uh, some people immediately responded. [00:31:57.160 – 00:32:00.600] Uh, others came to believe after a long time. [00:32:00.600 – 00:32:04.100] And also, he knew that some people, not all would be saved.

[00:32:04.100 – 00:32:09.300] And, uh, he developed these groups of mu- of mutual tolerance and commonality. [00:32:09.300 – 00:32:13.740] Uh, he just knew if he put the right people together, the right words would come. [00:32:13.740 – 00:32:20.600] He focused on the faith of small groups and built the fellowship and met together regularly to pray and to help. [00:32:20.600 – 00:32:25.680] He had one guy who was a, uh, Red C.. [00:32:25.680 – 00:32:35.580] The S.'s friend, Ralston Y., uh, was a parishioner at Calvary, and, uh, he was a, he was a Red C. down at Grand C. Station, and he wanted to carry the message. [00:32:35.580 – 00:32:40.230] So he got the p- the administration for Grand C. Station in the 1920 [00:32:40.410 – 00:32:47.740] '20s to let him hold prayer meetings in, uh, in trains on the sidetrack, and they called it the Track 13.

[00:32:47.740 – 00:32:51.520] Uh, and he was known as the Bishop of Grand C. Station. [00:32:51.520 – 00:32:54.960] And, uh, small groups work best, meet them where they are. [00:32:54.960 – 00:32:59.180] So it's like it was similar to having a small chapel in Grand C. Station. [00:32:59.180 – 00:33:00.740] But people found this. [00:33:00.740 – 00:33:02.340] They wanted quiet time. [00:33:02.340 – 00:33:03.920] They needed a break during the day. [00:33:03.920 – 00:33:08.300] And, uh, and, uh, they w- Ralston Y. was there to help them, okay?

[00:33:08.300 – 00:33:17.930] Now, Sam also knew that there were an awful lot of Ivy L. alumni type in New York business that, uh, whose spiritual needs on the Sunday morning sermons weren't filling. [00:33:17.930 – 00:33:20.980] He sensed a need, and so he started a group. [00:33:20.980 – 00:33:30.740] He started to gather a couple of guys together during the week, not on Sundays, and he formed Faith at Work, a businessmen's group, which began meeting in 1926 to '27. [00:33:30.740 – 00:33:32.880] Uh, there are guys that had a hint. [00:33:32.880 – 00:33:38.940] They wanted to seek something, but they didn't, they maybe they didn't wanna do it in the, uh, in the church on Sundays. [00:33:38.940 – 00:33:39.480] Maybe they had… [00:33:39.480 – 00:33:43.400] They were busy with their family, but they wanted some one-on-one time with some other guys.

[00:33:43.400 – 00:33:53.660] And so he recruited this group, and they started to meet regularly and share their, their experience, strength, and hope with one anoth- one another, and also how to bring faith [00:33:53.660 – 00:33:54.880] back into the workplace. [00:33:54.880 – 00:33:59.340] Now, some of the people that were in this group was Philip M. B.. [00:33:59.340 – 00:34:08.480] He was Williams, Harvard, Dartmouth, Princeton, a diplomat, lawyer, et cetera, uh, who really enjoyed faith fellowship, not an alcoholic. [00:34:08.480 – 00:34:12.610] Robert E. Speer was the guy that wrote the four, the Four A.. [00:34:12.610 – 00:34:20.180] Jim N. of Firestone and Oxford Group fame was sent to Calvary and Faith to work in New York by Bookman in 1927. [00:34:20.180 – 00:34:21.440] He was an alcoholic.

[00:34:21.440 – 00:34:23.900] Victor K. was an alcoholic. [00:34:23.900 – 00:34:26.440] He was an ad writer, uh, and a good author. [00:34:26.440 – 00:34:32.700] And, uh, and he was an act, uh, an oc- a member of the Faith at Work and also an active Oxford G.. [00:34:32.700 – 00:34:35.600] Shep C., not an alcoholic. [00:34:35.600 – 00:34:38.219] Um, but he, he liked the camaraderie. [00:34:38.219 – 00:34:42.660] He possibly had a bender every once in a while, but he was a very successful man. [00:34:42.660 – 00:34:45.000] He ended up being the president of A.O.

[00:34:45.000 – 00:34:49.900] Smith, which is one of the largest water heater manufacturing firms in the, in the world. [00:34:49.900 – 00:34:53.820] And he di- he, I think he lived until the, the '50s or the '60s. [00:34:53.820 – 00:35:00.560] Uh, and then there's Seabury G., which we'll hear about later, and of course he was an alcoholic, and he had trouble getting sober. [00:35:00.560 – 00:35:02.440] He had, he had many, um… [00:35:02.440 – 00:35:06.180] He started a lot of groups and stuff like that, but he himself had trouble. [00:35:06.180 – 00:35:12.360] Uh, his son said that he didn't, uh, didn't really get sober again until 19- till 1950s. [00:35:12.360 – 00:35:15.120] Um, he was living in Paris at the time.

[00:35:15.120 – 00:35:23.260] But Faith at Work contributed to the founding of Alcoholics Anonymous, and it still exists today separately. [00:35:23.260 – 00:35:25.240] It's called the Luminous G.. [00:35:25.240 – 00:35:28.580] It coexisted with the Oxford branch. [00:35:28.580 – 00:35:38.040] But these, these guys here, it was like an almost an auxiliary who there were people who were members of both the Oxford Group and Faith at Work, and Sam didn't care, to be honest with you. [00:35:38.040 – 00:35:45.980] Uh, because Sam still had that pro- that feeling that everyone has a problem, is a problem, or has to live with the problem. [00:35:45.980 – 00:35:53.680] His net opened wide as Calvary began, began a seven-day operation, uh, joining seekers together for mutual support. [00:35:53.680 – 00:35:58.560] The sins were diverse, but they were all seek- they all urged to seek solutions in Christ.

[00:35:58.560 – 00:36:09.020] Um, Sam initiated the Evangel M. for Faith at Work, and along with Reverend I. Harris, he managed to make Faith at Work a viable spiritual [00:36:09.020 – 00:36:09.600] program. [00:36:09.600 – 00:36:11.460] Like I said, it exists even today. [00:36:11.460 – 00:36:18.500] He personally counseled men and women one-on-one until they were calm and made their surrender. [00:36:18.500 – 00:36:22.000] He didn't go ahead and just drag you and throw you into a room with other people. [00:36:22.000 – 00:36:26.500] He would pull you aside or one of his people, like Harris, would talk to you a couple of times. [00:36:26.500 – 00:36:28.960] S- calm you down, get you going.

[00:36:28.960 – 00:36:35.800] Maybe it would take a series of meetings before you committed to, "Maybe I should try this thing out." And so he, he got you into it. [00:36:35.800 – 00:36:36.600] It was not… [00:36:36.600 – 00:36:40.800] It was, it was , it was not a one-and-done situation with Sam. [00:36:40.800 – 00:36:50.820] I mean, his writings talk about, and particularly in The Children of the Second B., repeated one-on-one meetings with people privately in his, in his office or on the [00:36:50.820 – 00:36:52.240] street or someplace like that. [00:36:52.240 – 00:37:01.040] But he, he calmly went ahead and used that, the five C's that, uh, that he had learned from Frank B. to go ahead and to help you to get the surrender. [00:37:01.040 – 00:37:03.620] And then if you surrendered, he had a place for you to go.

[00:37:03.620 – 00:37:07.640] Uh, he was a great communicator on his own. [00:37:07.640 – 00:37:09.500] Uh, he was a great writer. [00:37:09.500 – 00:37:16.900] He, he started his first, uh, writings that I have are from around 1919, and, uh, and but he continued on. [00:37:16.900 – 00:37:22.840] In, in the course of his lifetime, I think he probably wrote close to three dozen books. [00:37:22.840 – 00:37:27.000] Uh, and, um, but as any type of religious writer, when you start to read the… [00:37:27.000 – 00:37:33.580] They're a continuum of his spiritual beliefs in different words, using different examples, and maybe making different points. [00:37:33.580 – 00:37:37.540] But you can follow through these things, you know they're all written by the same guy.

[00:37:37.540 – 00:37:43.360] Uh, Children of the Second B., I Stand by the Door is another one of his. [00:37:43.360 – 00:37:53.860] Um, The Breeze of the Spirit was written by, uh, Reverend I. Harris, who, who revealed the nitty-gritty mechanics of Sam's ministry and his ability to multitask [00:37:53.860 – 00:37:54.540] with the best. [00:37:54.540 – 00:38:04.920] And, uh, there's another book about Sam called A New L. on Alcoholism by Dick B., who researched, yet he slan- his, his, his perspective was a little slanted, [00:38:04.920 – 00:38:07.030] um, on his influence on alcoholics [00:38:07.130 – 00:38:07.930] Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:38:07.930 – 00:38:09.440] But it's, it's worthwhile.

[00:38:09.440 – 00:38:16.439] Sam with his, uh, was, was first a man of God. [00:38:16.439 – 00:38:18.580] He was part of that Faith at Work group. [00:38:18.580 – 00:38:22.880] But, you know, to be honest with you, he didn't care, uh, what group he was in. [00:38:22.880 – 00:38:30.480] Uh, he was, he was secondly a man of the Episcopal C., and he was third a member of the Oxford Group. [00:38:30.480 – 00:38:32.040] His priorities were clear. [00:38:32.040 – 00:38:38.160] Uh, his primary guidance came from God and not from Bookman. [00:38:38.160 – 00:38:40.580] Okay?

[00:38:40.580 – 00:38:43.320] Like I said, he did stay active in it. [00:38:43.320 – 00:38:53.320] And, and as active in it, he, uh, he first met, he first met, uh, Helen S. to be his wife while she was at Princeton. [00:38:53.320 – 00:38:58.740] Uh, her father was a, was a, Alex S., was a US senator and, uh, taught at Princeton. [00:38:58.740 – 00:39:09.140] Uh, and Sam actually, uh, officiated at the wedding of, of, uh, of Helen's sister back in, uh, around 1921, 1922, [00:39:09.140 – 00:39:10.560] right after he had been ordained. [00:39:10.560 – 00:39:13.060] And, uh, their paths crossed often. [00:39:13.060 – 00:39:23.020] And in 1928 he was in England, um, with, uh, visiting, uh, and, and he ran across her and he, he, he knew what she was like.

[00:39:23.020 – 00:39:25.420] And she was working actually with the Oxford Group. [00:39:25.420 – 00:39:32.500] And, um, he asked her to come and help him in New York, and she resisted, but she did come and join Calvary. [00:39:32.500 – 00:39:34.680] Uh, is an independent spirit. [00:39:34.680 – 00:39:37.740] The more I know about her, the better I like her. [00:39:37.740 – 00:39:38.660] Uh, she became… [00:39:38.660 – 00:39:45.240] She was a close friend of Eleanor F., and, uh, Helen could and did hold her own for years. [00:39:45.240 – 00:39:49.720] They became active in the Oxford Group in New York City.

[00:39:49.720 – 00:39:52.900] And here's, here's a, a meeting of the Oxford Group for one of their weekends. [00:39:52.900 – 00:40:02.820] And the red dot, that's Frank B., the gold is, uh, Helen S., and the yellow is Sam S. at one of their, uh, house parties that they call them. [00:40:02.820 – 00:40:06.939] Uh, they were held at hotels, country clubs, and resorts. [00:40:06.939 – 00:40:15.360] They lasted from five days to two weeks, often with 100 to 600 attendees all over the East, uh, all the way up to California actually. [00:40:15.360 – 00:40:21.360] Um, large assemblies with featured speakers, and then they broke into smaller groups and small Bible study groups. [00:40:21.360 – 00:40:24.620] And, and it was, uh, it was a, it was like a retreat. [00:40:24.620 – 00:40:26.800] Uh, and it was, it was very, uh…

[00:40:26.800 – 00:40:30.080] People flocked to these and they advertised them. [00:40:30.080 – 00:40:33.280] There's an advertisement Briar- Briarcliff L.. [00:40:33.280 – 00:40:37.460] I believe that that property was eventually owned by Trump as a golf course, I think. [00:40:37.460 – 00:40:47.080] But anyway, uh, within a year of coming to New York, Helen and Sam were engaged at an Oxford Group house party at Briarcliff M. in 1930, and they married that April. [00:40:47.080 – 00:40:48.540] They didn't waste too much time. [00:40:48.540 – 00:40:55.120] Uh, mistaken impression is that Calvary E. Church was the Oxford Group church in America. [00:40:55.120 – 00:40:57.120] Um, that was not the case.

[00:40:57.120 – 00:41:02.840] The Oxford Group was separate from any sect, but did encourage their individuals to join local churches. [00:41:02.840 – 00:41:10.940] Faith and Work- Faith at Work was neither just for alcoholics, nor was the Ox- an Oxford Group operation, but some men were in both. [00:41:10.940 – 00:41:18.400] And, uh, today's abstinence sobriety pra- practices evolved from some of the past experiences of common mankind. [00:41:18.400 – 00:41:24.020] They're reformatted and repackaged for today's use and application to alcoholism. [00:41:24.020 – 00:41:31.600] The physical, mental, and spiritual, moral, and moral components of life were in play way before the Oxford Group or Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:41:31.600 – 00:41:40.399] Sam formed small groups to address the needs of his people and relied on his own people to develop those groups from within. [00:41:40.399 – 00:41:44.680] The small focus group flourished and set great examples.

[00:41:44.680 – 00:41:52.300] Uh, think today of AA, NA, OA, GA, and SLAA, and the multitude of self-help groups. [00:41:52.300 – 00:42:00.440] Uh, once again, everybody has a problem, is a problem, or has to live with the problem. [00:42:00.440 – 00:42:10.560] From Sam's early days with the, uh, with the Emmanuel M. in Boston and the Jacobi C., and he knew Courtney B. and Richard [00:42:10.560 – 00:42:13.440] Peabody from 1915 to 1930. [00:42:13.440 – 00:42:18.900] Sam, Sam learned of alcoholism's progressive mental, physical, and spiritual components. [00:42:18.900 – 00:42:27.260] And, uh, and he knew that they could change them because the whole principle of his ministry was that changed men can change their lives. [00:42:27.260 – 00:42:32.060] Uh, he knew that only a few alcoholics would s- be scruffs over.

[00:42:32.060 – 00:42:35.780] He knew that, and not everybody would get it, and, and too few to count. [00:42:35.780 – 00:42:43.160] But he knew most alcoholics could stop for one day, and the secret was don't pick up the f- the next drink, one day at a time. [00:42:43.160 – 00:42:47.290] He knew that with grace and surrender, once again, he wanted to calm you. [00:42:47.290 – 00:42:49.420] That's what, uh, uh, what's his name? [00:42:49.420 – 00:42:51.920] Uh, Courtney B. used to do. [00:42:51.920 – 00:42:56.740] He calmed you and, uh, and, and you could stay away from a drink one day at a time. [00:42:56.740 – 00:43:02.220] Sobriety could be achieved with grace and surrender, fellowship, prayer, and meditation.

[00:43:02.220 – 00:43:05.620] The aftercare once you stop was very important to Sam. [00:43:05.620 – 00:43:15.940] And taking from the, from the Washingtonians who knew that once you stop drinking, if you, if you hel- hang around with other people who are also not drinking, [00:43:15.940 – 00:43:20.020] you would have some beneficial abstinence, which we call fellowship today. [00:43:20.020 – 00:43:24.420] Um, it was a tool for recovering alcoholics in the 1840s, and it's a tool today. [00:43:24.420 – 00:43:29.199] Um, and Sam knew it because his Calvary M. colleague Henry had… [00:43:29.199 – 00:43:33.730] Remember, Henry got sober in the late 1800s, and he knew that a sober alco- [00:43:33.829 – 00:43:36.740] alcoholic worked best with another alcoholic.

[00:43:36.740 – 00:43:46.800] Uh, Sam's Faith at Work brought Christianity to men where men work, and, uh, encouraged businessmen to commit to [00:43:46.800 – 00:43:47.300] Christ. [00:43:47.300 – 00:43:50.980] Uh, members often allied with the Oxford Group. [00:43:50.980 – 00:44:01.080] Jim N. comes into AA history here, was an early Oxford G. who was recruited after he had joined the Oxford Group by Harvey F. to join his [00:44:01.080 – 00:44:04.900] firm as a young executive in 1924 to '25 and move to Akron. [00:44:04.900 – 00:44:07.240] And he did that, and he rose within the, the companies. [00:44:07.240 – 00:44:08.300] He joined St.

[00:44:08.300 – 00:44:10.620] Paul's Episcopal C. in Akron. [00:44:10.620 – 00:44:16.800] The, uh, the rector of that church was a name you might find familiar, Reverend W. Tunks. [00:44:16.800 – 00:44:17.780] Okay? [00:44:17.780 – 00:44:26.920] Uh, and, uh, in 1927 on a visit to New York, he was sort of a lone ranger out there in Akron in the early, in the '20s. [00:44:26.920 – 00:44:34.460] Uh, Frank B. was in New York and, uh, and, and Jim N. came and talked to him and said that he was somewhat adrift. [00:44:34.460 – 00:44:35.760] He was losing touch. [00:44:35.760 – 00:44:42.440] And B. knew what was going on, and he sent Jim up to see S. at, at Cavalry H. to see if Sam could be of help.

[00:44:42.440 – 00:44:51.480] Sam had in place at that time his Faith at Work businessman group, and they were meeting in the regular, in, in the Cavalry H. rooms. [00:44:51.480 – 00:45:01.660] So N. met with Sam, probably met with the others like Philip M. B. and Hannaford C., and, uh, and that became his away team when he was in New York City. [00:45:01.660 – 00:45:07.260] And Sam and Jim formed a long-term friendship. [00:45:07.260 – 00:45:17.320] Couple of years later, Harvey F.'s son was leading an alcoholic lifestyle, and the family turned to Jim N. for help. [00:45:17.320 – 00:45:18.600] This was in 1930. [00:45:18.600 – 00:45:28.299] Sam was an alcoholic, but he wanted to help him, and he, looking for some inspiration, he took Bud on a road trip to the Episcopal C. convention in, in Denver. [00:45:28.299 – 00:45:34.460] Now, what they used to do is send these trains, and the trains would come from New York to Akron to Denver.

[00:45:34.460 – 00:45:36.220] The, the convention was in Denver. [00:45:36.220 – 00:45:38.520] And, uh, so, and that, that's what it was. [00:45:38.520 – 00:45:41.880] It was like, it was a, it was like a spiritual party. [00:45:41.880 – 00:45:49.240] And, uh, on the train full of Episcopals, Jim runs into his old friend Sam S. and introduces Bud to him. [00:45:49.240 – 00:45:54.880] And over the course of the next couple of days, Sam S. spent hours talking with Bud in private. [00:45:54.880 – 00:45:57.440] Not in a group, in private, one-to-one. [00:45:57.440 – 00:46:04.520] Bud surrendered to Christ with Sam and gave up drinking, and that really thrilled Bud's father, Harvey.

[00:46:04.520 – 00:46:13.740] Harvey knew the Oxford Group action had changed Bud for good, so the grateful Harvey invited and underwrote an Oxford Group witnessing to visit Akron, Ohio. [00:46:13.740 – 00:46:20.920] In 1933, an Oxford Group came, including Frank B., traveled to Akron on public witnessing missions. [00:46:20.920 – 00:46:24.260] All the publicity and organizations that B. liked. [00:46:24.260 – 00:46:28.300] B. was personally greeted by Reverend W. Tunks. [00:46:28.300 – 00:46:29.780] There's a picture of that around. [00:46:29.780 – 00:46:30.700] People have seen that. [00:46:30.700 – 00:46:39.100] The groups established a S. beachhead in Akron in those times, and, uh, unknowingly set the table for Alcoholics Anonymous.

[00:46:39.100 – 00:46:49.180] Among the m- people that attended the Oxford Group gathering at that time from Akron was Henrietta S., Anne S., and soon her husband Bob joined [00:46:49.180 – 00:46:52.460] with Claris and, um, T. [00:46:52.460 – 00:46:57.240] Henry W. as early Akron O. Groupers. [00:46:57.240 – 00:47:02.200] Now we're getting into the, the move of, of Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:47:02.200 – 00:47:05.480] I call it the play of the year 1934. [00:47:05.480 – 00:47:11.660] Sam S. to Roland H. to Ebby T. to Bill W.. [00:47:11.660 – 00:47:15.520] The coach of the year was Sam S..

[00:47:15.520 – 00:47:17.180] He wasn't on the field. [00:47:17.180 – 00:47:20.160] He was standing on the sidelines directing the play. [00:47:20.160 – 00:47:26.620] Roland H. was a, from a prominent Rhode I. family, Yale-educated, but troubled with alcohol. [00:47:26.620 – 00:47:31.740] He, he started a series of visits to sanitariums in the early 1920s. [00:47:31.740 – 00:47:37.160] His cousins and classmates had already had trouble with booze and depression, et cetera, and mental illness. [00:47:37.160 – 00:47:40.250] They knew Ted total abstinence was the only hope. [00:47:40.250 – 00:47:50.320] They tried to help him by sending him on a s- he, he went on a series of trips and enterprises and geographical quack cures as he reeled through the

[00:47:50.320 – 00:47:50.839] '20s. [00:47:50.839 – 00:47:57.240] His family sent him to see Carl J. in 1926. [00:47:57.240 – 00:47:58.560] Not… [00:47:58.560 – 00:47:59.940] That was the first trip. [00:47:59.940 – 00:48:04.560] Uh, but he didn't stay sober after that, and he bounced around again. [00:48:04.560 – 00:48:14.810] And, uh, by 1935 or '34, he had paid all the best sanitariums and doctors in America, was counseled twice by Carl J. in Zurich, a, [00:48:14.810 – 00:48:25.120] a Carl J. disciple, Baines, in Colorado, S. in New York City because, uh, because Roland's daughter was part of the Cavalry C.,

[00:48:25.120 – 00:48:31.420] and by Courtney B. from the Emmanuel M. in Boston and in New York ov- between 1931 and '34. [00:48:31.420 – 00:48:41.580] Courtney B., another selfless person who didn't take credit for much, urged Roland to revisit Sam in New York in 1934 because Baylor [00:48:41.580 – 00:48:45.370] knew Sam, and so did Roland H.. [00:48:45.370 – 00:48:51.260] Remember, R- Roland H.'s brother, Tom, had gone to college with Sam S.. [00:48:51.260 – 00:49:00.430] Sam had a S. moral compass, and he sought Go- God's, like, God's guidance through [00:49:01.000 – 00:49:03.680] Uh, daily prayer and meditation during his quiet time. [00:49:03.680 – 00:49:07.280] Uh, he knew all sins are not created equal.

[00:49:07.280 – 00:49:12.280] He knew that alcoholism was a primary condition, a sin that had to be dealt with before others. [00:49:12.280 – 00:49:17.320] Alcohol probably topped one of Sam's, uh, the hierarchy of Sam's sin. [00:49:17.320 – 00:49:19.520] He knew it wasn't a simple thing. [00:49:19.520 – 00:49:24.780] It required God's grace, um, and that maybe soul surgery could be effective. [00:49:24.780 – 00:49:34.800] Sam had a S. moral compass, like I said, and, uh, he knew Christ could res- could relieve [00:49:34.800 – 00:49:35.640] Rowland's sin. [00:49:35.640 – 00:49:37.760] He used the five Cs.

[00:49:37.760 – 00:49:44.480] He probably spent a lot of time with Rowland one-on-one, and then, uh, Rowland went ahead and surrendered. [00:49:44.480 – 00:49:49.859] And, uh, when Rowland surrendered, Sam had the people to introduce him to. [00:49:49.859 – 00:49:59.200] Sam was a s- was a peer of, of H.'s and a skilled one-on-one interviewer, and he had legendary conversion skills. [00:49:59.200 – 00:50:09.280] His techniques helped Rowland identify his alcoholism and, uh, although he had never stayed sober for more than months at a time, uh, this time [00:50:09.280 – 00:50:11.100] Sam played on Rowland's ego. [00:50:11.100 – 00:50:12.560] He knew how to play this guy. [00:50:12.560 – 00:50:16.780] He was dealing with him one-on-one, and he drew him in, and he made him feel special.

[00:50:16.780 – 00:50:25.280] Uh, he gained his trust, and under intensive care, he surrendered to Christ and admitted he couldn't drink in safety and asked for help. [00:50:25.280 – 00:50:34.760] Rowland was introduced to some other recovering peers within the Faith at Work group business meeting and also in the Oxford Group, and he was meant to feel very special. [00:50:34.760 – 00:50:39.220] Uh, Rowland stopped drinking in 1934. [00:50:39.220 – 00:50:49.260] Sam continued to feed Rowland's ego, taking him on special Oxford Group tours to Canada and America, mid-America, with select peers from the [00:50:49.260 – 00:50:50.040] Oxford Group. [00:50:50.040 – 00:50:55.520] Here's a group in Winnipeg, Canada, uh, and if you'll — here's a list of the people. [00:50:55.520 – 00:51:05.560] It was led by Sam S., Eleanor F., Rowland H., Victor K., Eli, Reverend M., John R.

[00:51:05.560 – 00:51:09.100] from Harvard, the Dames, Charles D., Mrs. [00:51:09.100 – 00:51:09.640] Carter. [00:51:09.640 – 00:51:11.019] And they were — they held these things… [00:51:11.019 – 00:51:12.180] I told you they were elite. [00:51:12.180 – 00:51:19.860] Notable O. Group leaders will arrive Friday to take the lead at a house party at Kilmore, Lady N.'s home. [00:51:19.860 – 00:51:22.900] Limited guests are invited to these closed meetings. [00:51:22.900 – 00:51:27.499] Open meetings are planned in the city next week for those interested in the movement.

[00:51:27.499 – 00:51:31.540] And, and these people went also and talked at churches over the weekend. [00:51:31.540 – 00:51:35.100] Um, all right. [00:51:35.100 – 00:51:37.160] Let's see how I get to this next stop here. [00:51:37.160 – 00:51:47.460] Um, in the autumn of 1934, following one of these Oxford Group tours, Shep C., Seabury G., [00:51:47.460 – 00:51:57.620] and Philip M. B., perhaps others, were at Rowland's Vermont home when they heard of Seabury's acquaintance, Ebby T.'s, legal problems and decided to intervene. [00:51:57.620 – 00:52:07.780] Someone, and I say nobody knows who did it, appeared at the courthouse and asked Judge C. G. if they could try to help Ebby and get, get him sober [00:52:07.780 – 00:52:09.920] and to take him back to New York.

[00:52:09.920 – 00:52:13.300] Uh, it was probably done in the judge's chambers as they… [00:52:13.300 – 00:52:14.960] You don't do that stuff in open court. [00:52:14.960 – 00:52:16.820] Judges don't make deals in open court. [00:52:16.820 – 00:52:21.620] They make it out in the driveway, or they make it in their chambers with the clerk usually. [00:52:21.620 – 00:52:26.820] And Jig G. agreed to release Ebby if they took him away from Vermont. [00:52:26.820 – 00:52:29.620] Uh, he didn't want him in his jurisdiction anymore. [00:52:29.620 – 00:52:32.500] The guy had been a problem for a number of years.

[00:52:32.500 – 00:52:40.860] A dried-out Ebby was brought down to Calvary M., given mission housing, and he got active in maintaining his sobriety by attending the Ox- Oxford Group. [00:52:40.860 – 00:52:46.000] By turning his life over to God and helping others, Ebby hoped that he would be okay. [00:52:46.000 – 00:52:53.220] He was probably one of the few Calvary M. residents who could cross over into Faith at Work and Oxford Group meetings. [00:52:53.220 – 00:52:54.920] He was from a very wealthy family. [00:52:54.920 – 00:53:02.760] Sober only months, Ebby was probably encouraged by his Oxford Group friends to help someone else if he wished to remain sober. [00:53:02.760 – 00:53:07.860] Ebby's old drinking buddy, Bill W., lived, was living in Brooklyn. [00:53:07.860 – 00:53:11.720] It came to Ebby's mind, so he had called up and arranged a visit.

[00:53:11.720 – 00:53:15.420] Prep school classmates since 1912, they had kept in touch. [00:53:15.420 – 00:53:21.439] Both had growing alcohol problems and shared drunken episodes and self-induced bad luck. [00:53:21.439 – 00:53:23.320] Both had reached their bottoms. [00:53:23.320 – 00:53:26.680] However, it's doubtful that they, that either of them knew it. [00:53:26.680 – 00:53:30.810] Sober visited– Sober E. visited Bill W.'s home. [00:53:30.810 – 00:53:35.140] Bill was drinking and surprised when Ebby told him he was sober and found religion. [00:53:35.140 – 00:53:38.360] Bill was happy for Ebby and told him to keep it up.

[00:53:38.360 – 00:53:41.320] Bill had previously been told by Dr. [00:53:41.320 – 00:53:50.560] S. that he was an alcoholic, could never drink in safety, and Bill proved that on Armistice D. in 1934 when he got drunk again on that trip to Staten I.. [00:53:50.560 – 00:53:56.560] Days after Ebby's visit, Bill drank himself across town to find Ebby at Calvary M.. [00:53:56.560 – 00:53:59.820] Ebby kept him under control, kept him from being thrown out. [00:53:59.820 – 00:54:05.200] He stayed on for a service where a wet Bill claimed he was saved but did not stop drinking. [00:54:05.200 – 00:54:10.280] December 11th, Bill returned to T. Hospital for the third and fourth or fourth time. [00:54:10.280 – 00:54:15.260] Days later, Ebby visited Bill, who asked him once more how he stopped drinking.

[00:54:15.260 – 00:54:21.000] Bill listened this time, and the concept of asking God for help began to take root with Bill W.. [00:54:21.000 – 00:54:27.120] After a few more days of detox, he left T. Hospital [00:54:28.280 – 00:54:31.120] And sought out Ebby and his friends at Calvary M.. [00:54:31.120 – 00:54:33.940] They reconnected between Calvary M.. [00:54:33.940 – 00:54:41.040] Ebby and Sam S., and Bill W. began his sober journey in 1934, '35. [00:54:41.040 – 00:54:51.060] I say 1935 because if you look back at that schedule that I showed you from the trip to New– to, uh, to, um, Winnipeg from the, [00:54:51.060 – 00:55:01.080] uh, Oxford Group, uh, Sam and Roland H. were up in, in, uh, middle America the weeks before Christmas.

[00:55:01.080 – 00:55:06.480] And, and a guy running a big church isn't gonna go ahead and be doing an awful lot of, uh… [00:55:06.480 – 00:55:11.120] He, he's, he had to take care of the masses and everything else like that over the holidays. [00:55:11.120 – 00:55:17.180] So I think they probably didn't really get together again till 1935, early in 1935 for sure. [00:55:17.180 – 00:55:27.230] But, uh, but Sam helped, helped him get sober, and, um, Ebby enabled Bill's introduction to Calvary and, uh, all these [00:55:27.230 – 00:55:30.780] guys like Shep C. and Seabury R. and Victor K.. [00:55:30.780 – 00:55:37.100] Sam sensed that Bill just might need– might be a fit within Faith at Work and Oxford Group. [00:55:37.100 – 00:55:39.000] Bill saw himself as one.

[00:55:39.000 – 00:55:40.540] He thought pretty good of himself. [00:55:40.540 – 00:55:45.900] Conversion was needed to be, for Bill to be brought into the Christian-centered Faith at Work. [00:55:45.900 – 00:55:51.740] So S. most probably spent some time interviewing Bill in a series of one-on-one conversion meetings. [00:55:51.740 – 00:55:55.900] Seldom a one-and-done process, yet this was unreported. [00:55:55.900 – 00:56:06.160] Bill's surrender, turning his life over to Christ, is not a documented moment, but an early 1935 letter to Sam, from Sam to Bill implies it occurred [00:56:06.160 – 00:56:15.280] as Sam thanked Bill for helping Professor F. get sober, similar to Sam putting Roland in front and center and making him feel special. [00:56:15.280 – 00:56:24.160] So what happened was that, uh, Sam wanted to build Bill's ego back up, make him feel good about himself, so he had him go help somebody else.

[00:56:24.160 – 00:56:28.220] And that it, it, you know, that's the, one of the purposes of 12-step. [00:56:28.220 – 00:56:30.060] It makes you feel better. [00:56:30.060 – 00:56:35.280] And, uh, and it, and you from down and out to all of a sudden you're doing some good. [00:56:35.280 – 00:56:41.100] Uh, now we're gonna go ahead and look at some coincidences. [00:56:41.100 – 00:56:46.620] His connection, Sam's coincidental pre-AA connections. [00:56:46.620 – 00:56:52.840] We talked about Jim N., an early Bookman disciple who was in New York, and he talked with Frank, who directed him to Sam. [00:56:52.840 – 00:56:56.100] Jim's pastor in Akron was Walter T. of St.

[00:56:56.100 – 00:56:56.600] Paul's. [00:56:56.600 – 00:57:01.020] On the trip, Newton introduced Firestone to Sam. [00:57:01.020 – 00:57:03.520] Sam helped Bud stop drinking. [00:57:03.520 – 00:57:09.060] Harvey F. was happy about it and invited the Oxford Group to, to Akron. [00:57:09.060 – 00:57:11.340] Henrietta S., Ann S., and T. [00:57:11.340 – 00:57:18.510] Henry W. were among the Akron locals impressed by the Akron group, and they started the core meetings at the Williams house. [00:57:18.510 – 00:57:24.220] In 1935, a sober Bill W. is gonna go to Akron.

[00:57:24.220 – 00:57:29.600] So who is he talking to on a regular basis that has somewhat of a sane mind? [00:57:29.600 – 00:57:35.940] Probably S. S., who he's seeing on a regular basis, just like you would see his sponsor. [00:57:35.940 – 00:57:46.200] And if you had a sponsee who was newly sober and was going on a road trip to some other coun- other place where he's gonna be alone without a spiritual group, [00:57:46.720 – 00:57:47.380] what would you do? [00:57:47.380 – 00:57:49.300] You do just like I did today. [00:57:49.300 – 00:57:51.040] Uh, David actually knows that. [00:57:51.040 – 00:57:52.520] I have a friend that's going to Greece.

[00:57:52.520 – 00:57:54.480] I have another friend that's in the program. [00:57:54.480 – 00:57:56.700] I've known him for years, Eddie F.. [00:57:56.700 – 00:58:03.360] Uh, I put Ben in touch with Eddie F., and Eddie F. put Ben in touch with some guy in Greece. [00:58:03.360 – 00:58:05.880] And that's probably what Sam did. [00:58:05.880 – 00:58:10.900] I bet that Sam passed on Reverend T.' name as a, as a spiritual contact. [00:58:10.900 – 00:58:14.120] "Bill, if you get into trouble, give this guy a call. [00:58:14.120 – 00:58:19.520] He might be able to help you." Did T. suggest Bill call the Oxford Group or Henry S.?

[00:58:19.520 – 00:58:20.220] Who knows? [00:58:20.220 – 00:58:21.640] Who knows? [00:58:21.640 – 00:58:23.300] Non-alcoholic T. [00:58:23.300 – 00:58:24.700] Williams, T. [00:58:24.700 – 00:58:33.960] Henry W. was holding that, uh, meeting on, on, in an Oxford subgroup in his home, which eventually turned into the first true meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:58:33.960 – 00:58:42.040] Sam influenced Bill W. strongly, and we, we are influenced every day we read the Big Book. [00:58:42.040 – 00:58:50.799] The W. were welcomed into the Calvary C. community and began attending faith services, Oxford Group meetings, and Faith at Work meetings.

[00:58:50.799 – 00:58:55.680] Oxford Group needs were accommodated by Calvary C. as a favored guest group, one of many. [00:58:55.680 – 00:59:06.000] They were under– The Oxford Group was underwritten by their own elite joiners, not by Calvary C., and they pursued key members who were respected, educated, and wealthy. [00:59:06.000 – 00:59:14.680] Ebby T., Bill W., and his newly sober New York alcoholic were far from the Oxford Group prepared, preferred key men profile. [00:59:14.680 – 00:59:18.580] Sobriety was not the goal of the Oxford G.. [00:59:18.580 – 00:59:28.880] The New York O. Group, uh, New York AAs had joined the Oxford Group, but probably [00:59:28.880 – 00:59:33.940] didn't really wish to, uh, submit to the moral yardstick or the four absolutes. [00:59:33.940 – 00:59:39.780] AA separation grew in varying degrees, first in New York and then in Akron, not without concerns.

[00:59:39.780 – 00:59:47.440] For AAs to survive, it needed to keep it simple and have a primary purpose to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety. [00:59:47.440 – 00:59:49.960] The Oxford Group had many other issues. [00:59:49.960 – 00:59:53.640] Sam didn't wish to engage in the controversy and accepted- [00:59:54.108 – 00:59:58.848] Sobriety is a major cro- process for these guys, and then he stepped back. [00:59:58.848 – 01:00:03.528] He took men as he found them and converted the, the man of the moment. [01:00:03.528 – 01:00:07.668] If your primary sin was not drinking, focus on not drinking. [01:00:07.668 – 01:00:11.108] He knew it was a major task for Billy A..

[01:00:11.108 – 01:00:17.128] He also knew that the absolutes were a bridge too far for the sh- shaky alcoholics, but they could change. [01:00:17.128 – 01:00:27.148] Sam was introduced to Bill, and Bill acted as w- and, uh, S. acted as W.'s silent mentor and close-mouthed friend over the next [01:00:27.148 – 01:00:28.628] 30 years. [01:00:28.628 – 01:00:37.248] Sam's continuance was mentoring Bill, relating to, and directing him to the history and examples of recovery programs and practices. [01:00:37.248 – 01:00:42.448] I'm talking back to the Washingtonians, to the Emmanuel group, to some of the other successful groups. [01:00:42.448 – 01:00:46.768] Uh, and then Bill was asked to write the book, Alcoholics Anonymous. [01:00:46.768 – 01:00:56.928] Now, right after he was asked to write the book, he went ahead and he said, "At the very outset, we would like to have it made ever so clear that AA is a…" Well, I,

[01:00:56.928 – 01:00:57.848] I'm sorry, I read that. [01:00:57.848 – 01:00:57.907] "… [01:00:57.907 – 01:01:02.498] A synthetic concept." I'm screwed up on my own situation here. [01:01:02.498 – 01:01:11.988] But basically, there's a quote that I'm gonna show that Bill w- admits in, in AA Comes of Age, that, uh, he had no experience in writing the book. [01:01:11.988 – 01:01:12.468] Here it is. [01:01:12.468 – 01:01:16.108] "It was now realized we had enough background in window dressing. [01:01:16.108 – 01:01:17.788] At this point, we'd have to tell our program.

[01:01:17.788 – 01:01:20.108] The backbone of the book would have to be fit right there. [01:01:20.108 – 01:01:23.308] This problem had secretly worried the life out of me. [01:01:23.308 – 01:01:28.848] I had never written anything, and neither had any other member of the New York group." That was from Bill W.. [01:01:28.848 – 01:01:31.368] But let me ask you this. [01:01:31.368 – 01:01:41.588] Bill W. was an undegreed man whose writings prior to AA were limited to monographs, business of businesses he wrote during his business [01:01:41.588 – 01:01:42.758] career in the '20s. [01:01:42.758 – 01:01:49.528] Prior to '35, I am not aware of Bill's acquaintance with any authors or friends literary…

[01:01:49.528 – 01:01:59.988] with literary talents or skills, um, let alone being intimately familiar with religious and spiritual practices necessary as solutions for addressing alcoholism [01:01:59.988 – 01:02:03.768] or alcoholism that AA has utilized for maintaining sobriety. [01:02:03.768 – 01:02:13.708] S. was a 44-year-old Princeton graduate, an ordained priest, a well-traveled missionary with 25 years of spiritual living and counseling others. [01:02:13.708 – 01:02:18.808] He had written hundreds of sermons and published over a dozen books by 1935. [01:02:18.808 – 01:02:28.908] He was known internationally as a speaker and evangelical, bridging the gap between the liturgical church and witnessing surrenders and conversion techniques known as soul [01:02:28.908 – 01:02:29.428] surgery. [01:02:29.428 – 01:02:34.288] Sam believed the principles of a first-century Christian fellowship of Frank B..

[01:02:34.288 – 01:02:40.708] Sam's biographers detail his discipline, making his notes, thoughts, and complicated schedule. [01:02:40.708 – 01:02:50.448] A consummate multitasker ahead of his time, he could pivot as priorities changed, and he also remained focused on his primary purpose of introducing man to Christianity. [01:02:50.448 – 01:02:53.888] He was never concerned with praise or credit. [01:02:53.888 – 01:02:55.708] He only wished to be of help to all. [01:02:55.708 – 01:03:01.548] Sam S. was that ten-matter. [01:03:01.548 – 01:03:05.488] He was a Bible C., a scholar, a student of scripture. [01:03:05.488 – 01:03:08.328] He didn't have to search the Bible for an instance.

[01:03:08.328 – 01:03:08.907] He knew it. [01:03:08.907 – 01:03:13.368] The scriptures were in his d- DNA, and he didn't have to tell you their origins. [01:03:13.368 – 01:03:17.568] He knew they were timeless, and he passed on the message in the language of his time. [01:03:17.568 – 01:03:24.948] He was able to repackage many scriptural lessons and make them usable by the common man for good purposes. [01:03:24.948 – 01:03:35.918] Is it conceivable that as Bill drafted the first 179 pages, he regularly discussed concepts, structures, and texts with [01:03:35.918 – 01:03:42.128] the only man he knew who had written and published a dozen spiritual books, crafted and des- delivered thousands of sermons? [01:03:42.128 – 01:03:52.188] Is it possible this man, Sam, suggested words, phrases, adds, deletes, and rephrased drafts and prayers drawn from decades of total immersion in a spiritual

[01:03:52.188 – 01:03:52.428] life? [01:03:52.428 – 01:04:01.078] Did S. share his own thoughts and guidances with Bill during the writing of Alcoholics Anonymous, as he had with so many others over the years? [01:04:01.078 – 01:04:11.528] Both S. and Bill were remarkably quiet on this matter, not mentioning any consultation or chats during this whole period, the [01:04:11.528 – 01:04:13.328] period of time that the book was written. [01:04:13.328 – 01:04:18.288] But it doesn't mean that Bill didn't meet often with his closed-mouth friend. [01:04:18.288 – 01:04:28.328] Irving H., who win- was a minister also in, at, at, at that church, uh, and every house the head of, [01:04:28.328 – 01:04:28.778] uh…

[01:04:28.778 – 01:04:33.728] He was running, uh, the, um, faith at work. [01:04:33.728 – 01:04:38.308] In his, his biography, he wrote, uh, of… [01:04:38.308 – 01:04:47.298] and his wife wrote of Bill and Sam meeting regularly in Sam's Bookline seventh-floor study with the door closed and the telephone shut off. [01:04:47.298 – 01:04:56.748] Sam's personal notebooks and diaries from '36 to '39 apparently have been lost or misplaced from the S. records. [01:04:56.748 – 01:05:02.168] So what do you think? [01:05:02.168 – 01:05:06.008] You know, it's an interesting thing. [01:05:06.008 – 01:05:10.488] Uh, Sam left no fingerprints.

[01:05:10.488 – 01:05:20.547] From 1935 to 1939, as the program took place in offices and living rooms and small meeting halls in Akron, Cleveland, New York, Brooklyn, and New [01:05:20.548 – 01:05:20.588] Jersey [01:05:21.928 – 01:05:32.488] by trial and error, groups of sober alcoholics gathered together bags of stories and baskets of living experience, ranging from detox diets of tomato and corn syrup [01:05:32.488 – 01:05:36.868] to special prayers, readings, and formats meeting, of meetings. [01:05:36.868 – 01:05:42.888] They had rituals and meditation practices, but most important, they told how they were staying sober. [01:05:42.888 – 01:05:53.068] Influential reading material ranged from varieties of religious experience, the Bible, The Upper Room, Emmett F.'s Sermon on the Mount, Victor K. I was a bit- AJ [01:05:53.068 – 01:05:54.138] Russell's God C..

[01:05:54.138 – 01:06:04.408] AAs were not scholars, but AA helpers such as S., S., and others passed along the good and bad experience of others who tried to help people live sober, [01:06:04.408 – 01:06:10.208] including the Washingtonians, the Salvation A., the Emmanuel J. Club, Richard P., and others. [01:06:10.208 – 01:06:20.468] The literature and practice of many past temperance and sobriety movements found their way uncredited into AA from the common history of mankind, [01:06:20.468 – 01:06:27.748] joining the thoughts and experiences and practices of the fledgling fellowship and program into the book Alcoholics Anonymous. [01:06:27.748 – 01:06:38.688] The writing of the Alcoholics Anonymous fell to Bill W., and surely no one will ever know the highways, byways, dead ends, and liberties he took or the hints and guidance he received. [01:06:38.688 – 01:06:49.058] Bill S.'s extensive work, the writing of the Big Book, brings into focus a remarkable sequence of miracles, coincidences, and synchronicity that took place enabling this life-saving [01:06:49.058 – 01:06:49.848] work to appear.

[01:06:49.848 – 01:06:53.348] But there are gaps, and there's still room for speculation. [01:06:53.348 – 01:07:04.708] And as they say on page one sixty-four, paraphrased, "More will be revealed." Thank [01:07:04.708 – 01:07:04.768] you. [01:07:04.768 – 01:07:05.928] Okay. [01:07:05.928 – 01:07:06.388] Patrick. [01:07:06.388 – 01:07:10.328] I still have a little bit to go here, just a few more minutes. [01:07:10.328 – 01:07:20.548] Uh, in 1939 as the finishing touches were being put on the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, uh, Sam was putting

[01:07:20.548 – 01:07:23.688] his finishing touches on his role with the Oxford Group at that time. [01:07:23.688 – 01:07:29.708] Bookman had moved the Oxford Group into beyond changed men into changing men, changing countries. [01:07:29.708 – 01:07:32.498] He focused on pre-World W. II Europe. [01:07:32.498 – 01:07:34.668] Oxford G. became moral rearmament. [01:07:34.668 – 01:07:39.628] Sam wished to like the focus of changing men, first century Christianity. [01:07:39.628 – 01:07:50.138] In 1941, Sam and the Calvary vestry directed the Oxford Group to move their offices from Calvary H., they had been giving them [01:07:50.138 – 01:07:50.568] space.

[01:07:50.568 – 01:07:55.928] With Calvary Church, family, and his writing, Sam and Helen reached full stride. [01:07:55.928 – 01:08:05.968] By the 1940s, Sam was a nationally known religious rock star with daily radio spots on WORR- WOR and, and a half-hour show [01:08:05.968 – 01:08:06.708] on Sundays. [01:08:06.708 – 01:08:10.168] Helen co-founded the Anglican F. of Prayer. [01:08:10.168 – 01:08:13.948] The Calvary community flourished throughout the '40s. [01:08:13.948 – 01:08:17.928] The shoemakers actually had bought a h- a home in Bedford, New York. [01:08:17.928 – 01:08:18.308] Guess what?

[01:08:18.308 – 01:08:20.688] That's right near where, where Stepping S. is. [01:08:20.688 – 01:08:26.188] You ever think that Bill and Sam in the '40s ever shared a train ride or go for walks around Bedford? [01:08:26.188 – 01:08:29.668] Sam was a valued contributor to the grapevine. [01:08:29.668 – 01:08:39.488] He was brought back in publicly, uh, in the '40s and the '50s, attending AA events and, uh, and a featured speaker. [01:08:39.488 – 01:08:43.468] You've heard him and you've seen him and read his articles in AA Comes of Age. [01:08:43.468 – 01:08:46.548] Another player that came in at the time was Ed D.. [01:08:46.548 – 01:08:50.148] He had some– Bill W. had some very good mentors.

[01:08:50.148 – 01:08:57.168] Uh, do you think that Ed, that Jesuit Ed and Episcopal S. had much contact before AA conventions? [01:08:57.168 – 01:09:03.228] Both were fascinating non-alcoholics, and they provided some checks and balances for Bill W.. [01:09:03.228 – 01:09:09.448] Sam related ch- tongue in cheek in one of his writings, "One didn't talk with Bill W.. [01:09:09.448 – 01:09:13.328] You listened." Sam continued his mission to help men. [01:09:13.328 – 01:09:23.818] He was a good friend of, uh, Billy G.'s, and Reverend A. wrote of, of finding Sam stalking the aisles of the theological seminary in Cambridge in 1950, [01:09:23.818 – 01:09:29.308] encouraging the students to go listen to young Billy G. speaking in Boston in 1950. [01:09:29.308 – 01:09:33.288] Uh, Sam considered Graham a friend and an ally for Christ.

[01:09:33.288 – 01:09:37.968] Both were relentless evangelists, and they didn't care what you belonged to. [01:09:37.968 – 01:09:41.388] They just wanted to get that message out, and they both worked one-on-one. [01:09:41.388 – 01:09:44.148] Billy met people face-to-face where they were. [01:09:44.148 – 01:09:49.228] Not all life in, in Sam's life went as he wished. [01:09:49.228 – 01:09:59.588] In 1951, after being considered then rejected for a number of major Episcopal C. positions, including being rector of the National C. in Washington, DC, [01:09:59.588 – 01:10:09.668] and after twenty-six years in New York City, Sam and Helen and their two daughters left New York City for Calvary E. Church in Pittsburgh, a new challenge in a new city to [01:10:09.668 – 01:10:10.588] open another door.

[01:10:10.588 – 01:10:13.828] The Pitt- this is the church in Pittsburgh. [01:10:13.828 – 01:10:14.298] It was… [01:10:14.298 – 01:10:17.308] It's a, it's a very big church, and it'd been quiet. [01:10:17.308 – 01:10:22.248] And, uh, but starting with a few direct contacts, but with over forty… [01:10:22.248 – 01:10:30.548] thirty years of experience and an abiding faith in their mission, Helen and Sam set out to make prayer an everyday presence in their new community. [01:10:30.548 – 01:10:36.968] Small groups is both a sign and an instigator of a spiritual awakening, and Sam set onto that. [01:10:36.968 – 01:10:41.638] Sam's Pittsburgh e-effort was profiled in Time in 1955.

[01:10:41.638 – 01:10:46.448] Helen, the Anglican F. of Prayer, had gained international status. [01:10:46.448 – 01:10:47.278] Pres- [01:10:47.598 – 01:10:47.948] and John F. [01:10:47.948 – 01:10:53.828] Kennedy asked her to speak to lead the National P. Breakfast in Washington in 1962. [01:10:53.828 – 01:11:00.508] Their faith community bridged the gap between Sunday worship and the workweek, which was always Sam's goal. [01:11:00.508 – 01:11:06.288] The Pittsburgh Experiment was a derivation of the Faith at Work. [01:11:06.288 – 01:11:16.508] However, Pittsburgh members were men and women of mid-management and junior levels and factory workers joining together in small groups throughout the city discussing problems and sharing experiences.

[01:11:16.508 – 01:11:21.548] "God can be as important to Pittsburgh as is the steel industry," said Sam. [01:11:21.548 – 01:11:31.858] Soon men and mem- women were meeting throughout the region sharing and bearing witness on jobs, professions, at regular breaks, meetings in mills, and at lunch, and changing [01:11:31.858 – 01:11:32.457] the community. [01:11:32.457 – 01:11:35.968] He led Bible studies at the Harvard Y. Princeton C.. [01:11:35.968 – 01:11:43.028] At the golf club, the crowd talked about the Pittsburgh E., and it took on a life of its own at arm's length from Calvary C.. [01:11:43.028 – 01:11:46.908] Faith at Work and the Pittsburgh E. still operate today. [01:11:46.908 – 01:11:50.408] Faith at Work is currently based in Vermont.

[01:11:50.408 – 01:11:57.408] Sam and Helen retired to Burnside in 1961 for his final years. [01:11:57.408 – 01:12:02.608] He passed quietly in October 1963 and buried in St. [01:12:02.608 – 01:12:05.268] Thomas E. Church in Owings M.. [01:12:05.268 – 01:12:08.368] Friends and tributes arrived from around the world. [01:12:08.368 – 01:12:14.328] Memorial services were held nationwide, reflecting his value to the community. [01:12:14.328 – 01:12:22.668] January 31st is celebrated in the Episcopal C. as the liturgical feast day of the Reverend S. S.. [01:12:22.668 – 01:12:32.888] On his passing, Norman V. Peale said, "No mar- man has ever excelled Sam S. in sheer spiritual depth

[01:12:32.888 – 01:12:34.048] and persuasive power. [01:12:34.048 – 01:12:44.388] He was perhaps the most gifted genius in an intimate personal evangelism of our time." Billy G.: "Words cannot express [01:12:44.388 – 01:12:49.108] the sense of personal loss I have felt at the homegoing of our beloved Sam. [01:12:49.108 – 01:12:56.068] I doubt any man in our generation has made a greater impact for God on the Christian world than Sam S.. [01:12:56.068 – 01:13:03.348] When a good man sets, the sky of the world is luminous long after he is out of sight. [01:13:03.348 – 01:13:05.668] He doesn't die in this world. [01:13:05.668 – 01:13:16.728] He leaves behind much of himself." Bill W. was there, and in the, uh, driveway outside of Burnside after the funeral, this

[01:13:16.728 – 01:13:26.928] is a quote from, uh, from Dick B.'s book, from Nikki S., "Don't let anyone ever tell you I founded AA. [01:13:26.928 – 01:13:32.288] If it wasn't for Sam S., AA would never have been born. [01:13:32.288 – 01:13:41.888] Our ideas of self-examination, acknowledgement to character defects, restitution for harm done, and working with others came straight from Sam. [01:13:41.888 – 01:13:46.668] He gave to us the concrete knowledge of what we could do about our illness. [01:13:46.668 – 01:13:55.468] He passed the spiritual keys by which so many of us have been liberated." That was Bill W. in the Grapevine, 1964. [01:13:55.468 – 01:14:02.108] In O., he stepped away from his, the door, but his words and guidance remain. [01:14:02.108 – 01:14:04.188] That's it.

[01:14:04.188 – 01:14:07.178] Thank you very much, Patrick. [01:14:07.178 – 01:14:08.248] Much appreciated. [01:14:08.248 – 01:14:12.008] Please, um, unmute if you'd like to acknowledge Patrick. [01:14:12.008 – 01:14:12.708] I'm sure you will. [01:14:12.708 – 01:14:14.318] Thank you, Patrick. [01:14:14.318 – 01:14:14.319] Yeah, thank you. [01:14:14.319 – 01:14:15.528] Great job.

[01:14:15.528 – 01:14:17.488] Thank you, Patrick. [01:14:17.488 – 01:14:18.028] Thank you. [01:14:18.028 – 01:14:19.188] That was wonderful. [01:14:19.188 – 01:14:19.597] Thank you. [01:14:19.597 – 01:14:19.598] That was incredible. [01:14:19.598 – 01:14:20.368] Thank you very much. [01:14:20.368 – 01:14:20.908] Thank you, Patrick.

[01:14:20.908 – 01:14:21.687] Great job. [01:14:21.687 – 01:14:22.128] Thank you, Patrick. [01:14:22.128 – 01:14:22.418] Thank you. [01:14:22.418 – 01:14:23.348] Thank you, Patrick. [01:14:23.348 – 01:14:25.178] Completely brilliant. [01:14:25.178 – 01:14:26.948] That was in- that was amazing. [01:14:26.948 – 01:14:27.218] Patrick.

[01:14:27.218 – 01:14:27.828] Thank you. [01:14:27.828 – 01:14:28.348] Thank you. [01:14:28.348 – 01:14:29.508] Beautiful. [01:14:29.508 – 01:14:30.508] Awesome. [01:14:30.508 – 01:14:32.308] That was awesome, Patrick. [01:14:32.308 – 01:14:33.028] Incredible. [01:14:33.028 – 01:14:33.748] Awesome.

[01:14:33.748 – 01:14:34.348] Awesome. [01:14:34.348 – 01:14:35.928] Mm-hmm. [01:14:35.928 – 01:14:38.868] Absolutely awesome. [01:14:38.868 – 01:14:40.428] Yeah. [01:14:40.428 – 01:14:42.228] It was, it sure was. [01:14:42.228 – 01:14:45.648] I'm definitely sold on a lot of those ideas, Patrick. [01:14:45.648 – 01:14:52.907] Uh, next week we've got Bill, uh, Jim, Jim W.'s with us next week, and Jim is gonna do the AA New Thought connection.

[01:14:52.907 – 01:14:57.308] And I think Patrick has set the s- scene for you or set the stage for you next week, Jim. [01:14:57.308 – 01:15:02.208] So we're gonna do some Q&A here, and I'm gonna take this. [01:15:02.208 – 01:15:10.908] So, uh, if you'd like to ask Patrick a q- general question, 'cause we don't have time for a discussion on the recording, but we do stay behind sometimes for the meeting after the meeting in the parking lot. [01:15:10.908 – 01:15:17.608] Or you can contact Patrick at Pat, P-A-T-O-D-C-S @aol.com. [01:15:17.608 – 01:15:21.848] And I'm reading for those obviously who are listening, hopefully listening to us. [01:15:21.848 – 01:15:24.888] Now, would anyone like to ask any question, would like to ask Patrick a question? [01:15:24.888 – 01:15:28.628] Patrick's here for the next, let's say, 20 minutes.

[01:15:28.628 – 01:15:39.668] Okay, we've got nothing. [01:15:39.668 – 01:15:45.278] I always take that as a contemplation thing. [01:15:45.278 – 01:15:47.648] Randy's out on mute, and he's contemplating big time there. [01:15:47.648 – 01:15:48.208] I can see him. [01:15:48.208 – 01:15:49.088] He's thinking about it. [01:15:49.088 – 01:15:50.848] You don't like to be recorded there, Randy. [01:15:50.848 – 01:15:52.348] He's gone hiding on me now.

[01:15:52.348 – 01:15:57.668] Okay. [01:15:57.668 – 01:15:59.328] I suppose I, I could get it to dialogue. [01:15:59.328 – 01:16:09.508] Patrick, I'm definitely sold on, on your idea that, um, W. influenced, was influenced a lot by Sam S., but is there any concrete evidence of that, Patrick? [01:16:09.508 – 01:16:13.978] Well, I think number one, the fact that there's no talk about it [01:16:14.808 – 01:16:17.108] is a really big thing, okay? [01:16:17.108 – 01:16:21.998] How can you, all of a sudden there's a gap of five years- Yeah … [01:16:21.998 – 01:16:32.448] of no discussion about Sam S. and Bill W. from 1935, '36 through 1939 until, till Sam shows up at the conventions.

[01:16:32.448 – 01:16:34.268] That's one thing. [01:16:34.268 – 01:16:39.248] The second thing is, is Irving H. has no, uh, nothing to gain on this thing here. [01:16:39.248 – 01:16:42.667] That book was written, he and his wife both felt that that was the way it was. [01:16:42.667 – 01:16:44.148] And, uh, once… [01:16:44.148 – 01:16:53.068] Another thing is when you do the reading, and I'm not talking about r- well, if you read the big book and you read a lot of Sam S., you're gonna find those common phrases. [01:16:53.068 – 01:16:54.098] And these are- Right … [01:16:54.098 – 01:16:55.768] phrases written in the '20s.

[01:16:55.768 – 01:17:00.528] I mean, they're, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's pretty, you know, it's pretty simple. [01:17:00.528 – 01:17:01.427] Uh, yeah. [01:17:01.427 – 01:17:01.748] Yeah. [01:17:01.748 – 01:17:04.488] Patrick, you told me before about d- uh, diary pages going missing. [01:17:04.488 – 01:17:04.928] Is that right? [01:17:04.928 – 01:17:06.908] I, I'm trying to recall the- That's what Dick B. [01:17:06.908 – 01:17:09.608] said that the books were, that, that his diaries…

[01:17:09.608 – 01:17:17.978] And, and Sam, I, I had mentioned, and that Irving H. had written how Sam was just a prolific note taker and card matterer. [01:17:17.978 – 01:17:19.968] He kept all of these things. [01:17:19.968 – 01:17:24.928] He was a multitasker, so he had, uh, appointment books and schedules and everything else. [01:17:24.928 – 01:17:28.988] And, and Dick claims that they have disappeared, that they can't be found. [01:17:28.988 – 01:17:31.268] Thank you, Patrick. [01:17:31.268 – 01:17:32.988] I really do appreciate all the work you do. [01:17:32.988 – 01:17:38.748] Has anyone like to ask- But I think, I think, I think I have a thread on where they are though Oh.

[01:17:38.748 – 01:17:43.128] Look at Drew is jumping for joy. [01:17:43.128 – 01:17:43.848] How wonderful. [01:17:43.848 – 01:17:44.278] That's Drew H. [01:17:44.278 – 01:17:46.408] is jumping for joy for us listening. [01:17:46.408 – 01:17:48.408] Oh, we go straight to John. [01:17:48.408 – 01:17:49.648] Hello, uh, John. [01:17:49.648 – 01:17:53.788] Yes, um, yes, uh, Patrick, thank you so much.

[01:17:53.788 – 01:17:54.868] That was riveting. [01:17:54.868 – 01:17:57.108] Uh, I was so emotional at the end as well. [01:17:57.108 – 01:17:58.328] Thank you so much. [01:17:58.328 – 01:18:08.688] It's really inter- I didn't realize that, uh, that connection S., Tunks, uh, uh, Bill, Episcopal C., [01:18:08.688 – 01:18:11.608] and Oxford Group in Akron, Ohio. [01:18:11.608 – 01:18:21.748] It, it does, it does seem as if it would be reasonable that Bill would have had the Reverend T.' number from, [01:18:21.748 – 01:18:24.587] um, S. before he went to Akron.

[01:18:24.587 – 01:18:32.708] I mean, it wouldn't be stretching credulity that much to think, as you quite rightly say, if you were coming to Ireland, I'd give you my phone number. [01:18:32.708 – 01:18:34.728] It was fascinating. [01:18:34.728 – 01:18:44.127] Um, you know, as Bill o- or Bill S. often talks about, I don't mean Bill embellishing the truth, but certainly adding slightly to a story. [01:18:44.127 – 01:18:52.368] Um, bringing a couple of, o- o- uh, other, uh, uh, clergymen before he got to Tunks. [01:18:52.368 – 01:19:00.168] You, I think it would be reasonable, it would be not would, it would be not unreasonable to assume he already had Tunks' number. [01:19:00.168 – 01:19:00.848] What do you think? [01:19:00.848 – 01:19:03.548] Makes sense to me.

[01:19:03.548 – 01:19:04.628] Mm-hmm. [01:19:04.628 – 01:19:05.597] Me too, Patrick. [01:19:05.597 – 01:19:09.648] We're gonna have the meeting after the meeting, John, if people want to get into that, uh, later on. [01:19:09.648 – 01:19:11.388] That's a, you know, that's a great thread to go down. [01:19:11.388 – 01:19:15.148] Uh, Kathy in Shreveport… [01:19:15.148 – 01:19:16.157] How do you pronounce that? [01:19:16.157 – 01:19:17.168] Shreveport, LA.

[01:19:17.168 – 01:19:17.868] Hello, Kathy. [01:19:17.868 – 01:19:19.228] Hi there. [01:19:19.228 – 01:19:21.928] I'm Kathy, Shreveport, Louisiana. [01:19:21.928 – 01:19:23.308] Thank you so much, Patrick. [01:19:23.308 – 01:19:23.377] Uh. [01:19:23.377 – 01:19:25.188] That was really excellent. [01:19:25.188 – 01:19:30.698] Um, I did not know how important Sam S. was.

[01:19:30.698 – 01:19:33.808] I mean, I knew his name and I knew of him. [01:19:33.808 – 01:19:35.288] That was so interesting. [01:19:35.288 – 01:19:45.348] And so is the reason, I'm assuming, that they wouldn't want this out because they didn't want the Christian [01:19:45.348 – 01:19:50.068] roots, um, and it to be so affiliated with the church? [01:19:50.068 – 01:19:51.808] Is that why they would hide it? [01:19:51.808 – 01:19:53.627] I, I don't think that any… [01:19:53.627 – 01:20:01.188] I think that Sam was just not gonna say anything because he knew that that was for the common good, was not to cloud the issue.

[01:20:01.188 – 01:20:03.308] Alcoholism is a major challenge. [01:20:03.308 – 01:20:11.248] And if leaving somebody out, it didn't bother Sam at all not to be, uh, referenced there during that time. [01:20:11.248 – 01:20:14.988] I think he had a good focus, and he was a giving person. [01:20:14.988 – 01:20:15.948] He didn't care. [01:20:15.948 – 01:20:19.388] He stood by the door, like the, like the poem said. [01:20:19.388 – 01:20:25.368] He stood outside and, and, and, and helped facilitate but did not participate. [01:20:25.368 – 01:20:28.308] He was, he was a good sounding board.

[01:20:28.308 – 01:20:29.748] He was, he was, he was… [01:20:29.748 – 01:20:32.088] There were a lot of good people in this world. [01:20:32.088 – 01:20:34.028] They're not all in AA. [01:20:34.028 – 01:20:35.007] Thank G.. [01:20:35.007 – 01:20:38.838] Although- Patrick, you- … [01:20:38.838 – 01:20:41.288] I think that we have some corner on it, but that's, uh… [01:20:41.288 – 01:20:43.568] And, and one other thing.

[01:20:43.568 – 01:20:50.088] Um, s- do you, are you into AA history in general, or Sam S. in particular? [01:20:50.088 – 01:20:51.768] What got you into him? [01:20:51.768 – 01:21:00.828] No, I, I basically have been focusing on from the Washingtonians through Richmond W., which is my window. [01:21:00.828 – 01:21:03.708] Uh, it's almost pre-AA. [01:21:03.708 – 01:21:07.428] Um, and I just find that easier. [01:21:07.428 – 01:21:09.608] And plus I live in an area where I can… [01:21:09.608 – 01:21:12.288] I know people that know Richmond W., for instance.

[01:21:12.288 – 01:21:15.888] And, uh, I had, uh, you know, it's pretty easy to do research. [01:21:15.888 – 01:21:20.948] I asked, I asked my friend Dick, uh, the other day, he was g- he's an alumni of St. [01:21:20.948 – 01:21:22.848] George's School, and, and I talked to him. [01:21:22.848 – 01:21:25.168] I, I [01:21:40.858 – 01:21:42.428] George is in, in Rhode I.. [01:21:42.428 – 01:21:45.048] I mean, that's local knowledge. [01:21:45.048 – 01:21:49.468] I mean, th- it's, it's not a, it's not a myth that these guys were connected.

[01:21:49.468 – 01:21:52.828] And you have to, you have to be re- realistic about it. [01:21:52.828 – 01:21:55.228] These people didn't work in a vacuum. [01:21:55.228 – 01:21:56.628] Mm-hmm. [01:21:56.628 – 01:22:05.588] You know, I, I always stop and say, Bill W. would not have listened to, to, uh, to Billy the toll taker if he didn't know him from before. [01:22:05.588 – 01:22:13.308] But he knew Ebby T. from the time they were in prep school, so of course he's gonna go ahead and listen to him a little bit better. [01:22:13.308 – 01:22:16.408] He's gonna give him the time of day even if he's drunk. [01:22:16.408 – 01:22:17.668] Mm-hmm.

[01:22:17.668 – 01:22:17.967] Mm-hmm. [01:22:17.967 – 01:22:20.328] So, I mean, it just, that's the way the world works. [01:22:20.328 – 01:22:21.208] Mm-hmm. [01:22:21.208 – 01:22:21.748] Yeah. [01:22:21.748 – 01:22:22.148] Brilliant. [01:22:22.148 – 01:22:28.148] Kathy, I just wanted to bring Kathy's attention, Kathy, I don't know if you're aware, we, we have recorded Patrick on a number of occasions before. [01:22:28.148 – 01:22:32.278] And just to show you this link here, Patrick's done a talk on random routes.

[01:22:32.278 – 01:22:37.238] He's recently updated that, done a, a more broader version of that for us earlier. [01:22:37.238 – 01:22:40.208] And he's also done, uh, one on the Emmanuel M. Friday night. [01:22:40.208 – 01:22:42.208] So there's a lot of them there, Kathy. [01:22:42.208 – 01:22:44.008] You can find some, there's some more there. [01:22:44.008 – 01:22:46.908] And Drew H., who's here, has done wonderful talks for us as well. [01:22:46.908 – 01:22:53.948] So I know Recovery Speakers is the treasure trove, but we have some good ones here as well. [01:22:53.948 – 01:22:56.138] We've got some good ones.

[01:22:56.138 – 01:22:56.448] Look at that. [01:22:56.448 – 01:22:59.028] So K., I'm gonna put that link again in the chat for you. [01:22:59.028 – 01:23:00.808] Maybe you might wanna follow that link. [01:23:00.808 – 01:23:03.068] Thank you for your participation, much appreciated. [01:23:03.068 – 01:23:04.058] Hazel is here. [01:23:04.058 – 01:23:08.608] Hazel, we're not talking about Roe or, or we're not talking about Trudgen. [01:23:08.608 – 01:23:13.058] Jump in.

[01:23:13.058 – 01:23:13.968] Just jump in, yeah. [01:23:13.968 – 01:23:14.538] We're not, we're not- Tell P. … [01:23:14.538 – 01:23:14.948] Trudgen. [01:23:14.948 – 01:23:16.528] Uh, okay. [01:23:16.528 – 01:23:19.428] Listen, uh, thank you, Patrick. [01:23:19.428 – 01:23:26.088] Um, boy, that was a wealth of information, and it was very well presented. [01:23:26.088 – 01:23:33.528] Um, and it, uh, as usual, a little difficult to follow along.

[01:23:33.528 – 01:23:44.088] But when you talked about Ebby being, uh, uh, arrested and [01:23:44.088 – 01:23:54.088] plans initially were to send him s- uh, uh, somewhere, the institution or something like that, and it was Shep C., uh, [01:23:54.088 – 01:24:04.128] Sebert G., and Roland H. that they say, "Have you heard the story that they went [01:24:04.128 – 01:24:12.408] before the judge and that the judge was related to, um- Paper G. … [01:24:12.408 – 01:24:15.408] Sebert G.?" It was his father. [01:24:15.408 – 01:24:18.428] It was his father? [01:24:18.428 – 01:24:19.848] Yeah, yeah.

[01:24:19.848 – 01:24:24.128] Roland G. graduated from B. University. [01:24:24.128 – 01:24:25.288] Okay. [01:24:25.288 – 01:24:29.768] Hazel, these are, this is a br- a detailed, specific questions you're asking. [01:24:29.768 – 01:24:32.328] You can send Patrick a, an email for that one if you don't mind. [01:24:32.328 – 01:24:35.628] I, I, I mean, s- j- I, 'cause we- No problem. [01:24:35.628 – 01:24:35.638] No problem. [01:24:35.638 – 01:24:41.067] I won't- But if you wanna get, you know, generally ask Patrick a question on the presentation tonight or, you know…

[01:24:41.067 – 01:24:45.238] I, I appreciate what you're saying, but we can have, we need more time to get into all that. [01:24:45.238 – 01:24:46.718] And Patrick, you know, we really would. [01:24:46.718 – 01:24:47.287] Not at all. [01:24:47.287 – 01:24:48.248] Not at all. [01:24:48.248 – 01:24:49.128] No problem. [01:24:49.128 – 01:24:52.948] Thank you, Hazel, I appreciate your, your participation as well. [01:24:52.948 – 01:24:53.408] Thank you.

[01:24:53.408 – 01:24:54.448] Mm-hmm. [01:24:54.448 – 01:25:01.168] Does anyone want to ask Patrick something, um, with regards to Sam S. and his connection with Bill W. and… [01:25:01.168 – 01:25:03.128] There you go. [01:25:03.128 – 01:25:03.568] Thank you. [01:25:03.568 – 01:25:04.968] Hello, hello, Dan, Dan T. [01:25:04.968 – 01:25:06.328] from Australia. [01:25:06.328 – 01:25:08.368] Yeah, thanks, Liam.

[01:25:08.368 – 01:25:10.068] Uh, thanks, Patrick. [01:25:10.068 – 01:25:11.088] Great presentation. [01:25:11.088 – 01:25:19.068] Uh, Patrick, uh, I see that, uh, that, uh- All yours, Dan … [01:25:19.068 – 01:25:19.828] I see. [01:25:19.828 – 01:25:21.748] Go ahead, Dan. [01:25:21.748 – 01:25:22.088] You're good. [01:25:22.088 – 01:25:23.468] Yeah, yeah.

[01:25:23.468 – 01:25:33.548] Patrick, I see, uh, Sam's wife, uh, Helen S. was, was mates, uh, with a woman by the name of Eleanor [01:25:33.548 – 01:25:33.988] F.. [01:25:33.988 – 01:25:40.568] And, uh, and I was of the understanding that Eleanor F., uh, married Jim N.. [01:25:40.568 – 01:25:41.988] I don't… [01:25:41.988 – 01:25:53.248] Uh, would it be fair to say that, uh, whilst Jim N. was a, a member of the Oxford Group, th- there's not, not [01:25:53.248 – 01:26:01.367] a great deal of mention of, uh, of him around after, uh, ar- around Bill's time. [01:26:01.367 – 01:26:09.528] But, uh, was he, was he more perhaps in the, uh, in the Faith T. Worked side of things?

[01:26:09.528 – 01:26:11.168] I see, yeah. [01:26:11.168 – 01:26:21.248] I think, I think he was, he was, he was a- I think Buckman sent him to, sent, Buckman sent him to see, uh, Sam in '27, and then Sam married Helen, you [01:26:21.248 – 01:26:23.008] said in the presentation, 1930. [01:26:23.008 – 01:26:29.748] So I would've thought if, if, if wives were mates, uh, husbands of wives would be mates too. [01:26:29.748 – 01:26:32.408] Thanks, Dan. [01:26:32.408 – 01:26:35.688] Patrick, do you want to- Well, no, I, I… [01:26:35.688 – 01:26:40.088] You know, actually, J- Jim N. and Eleanor F. didn't marry until quite…

[01:26:40.088 – 01:26:45.468] They met, I think, like, in the early '20s, uh, when it was, uh, Christian F.. [01:26:45.468 – 01:26:50.608] But, but they got married, I think, in the '30s or maybe in the '40s, and he left Firestone, they moved to Florida. [01:26:50.608 – 01:26:52.728] Somebody's done a lot of work on that type of stuff. [01:26:52.728 – 01:27:00.688] Helen was, uh, Helen was, Helen's father was a member of the Oxford Group and, and, and she, that's when she was in England. [01:27:00.688 – 01:27:07.398] And, you know, like I said, it, the, uh, they, they were all, they were all c- [01:27:08.388 – 01:27:10.328] They didn't just meet for the first time. [01:27:10.328 – 01:27:16.248] I mean, Helen in her book talks about seeing Sam on campus when she was, like 16 years of age.

[01:27:16.248 – 01:27:17.988] She sort of didn't like him. [01:27:17.988 – 01:27:20.828] She thought it was, like, you know, sort of fluffy for him. [01:27:20.828 – 01:27:23.068] But, uh, she changed and he changed. [01:27:23.068 – 01:27:26.308] Thanks, Patrick. [01:27:26.308 – 01:27:28.608] Thank you, uh, Dan. [01:27:28.608 – 01:27:29.828] Uh, Kathy K. [01:27:29.828 – 01:27:30.688] Hello, Kathy.

[01:27:30.688 – 01:27:32.088] Hey, Patrick. [01:27:32.088 – 01:27:33.308] Hi, hi David. [01:27:33.308 – 01:27:34.828] Kathy, alcoholic. [01:27:34.828 – 01:27:36.258] Thank you so much, Patrick. [01:27:36.258 – 01:27:45.148] I saw this presentation before, but it seems like you've added, you know, some, uh, other slides which, uh, or, or I might have forgotten. [01:27:45.148 – 01:27:51.128] The question I have is I didn't realize that, um, he was involved with the YMCA. [01:27:51.128 – 01:27:58.168] And, um, in one of your slides it was, uh, he was, um, was he…

[01:27:58.168 – 01:28:02.738] How was he involved with the pilots there in China, I think it was or something? [01:28:02.738 – 01:28:07.338] The, the YMCA was a, was a, a facilitator for, uh, missionary work. [01:28:07.338 – 01:28:09.528] Young M.'s Christian A.. [01:28:09.528 – 01:28:10.728] So they got a lot… [01:28:10.728 – 01:28:20.948] They would, they would sponsor these lay missionaries basically to carry the Christian message to these outposts like in, in New M., [01:28:20.948 – 01:28:27.288] and also to, uh, to be there as a sounding board, uh, for people in, in war. [01:28:27.288 – 01:28:31.768] And, and that's, I sh- showed a picture of the, uh, the group from Princeton.

[01:28:31.768 – 01:28:33.348] They just went out just to be there. [01:28:33.348 – 01:28:34.828] They were just good people. [01:28:34.828 – 01:28:35.238] Mm-hmm. [01:28:35.238 – 01:28:36.628] They weren't selling anything. [01:28:36.628 – 01:28:40.928] But anybody that's been in, in that type of a thing, they need somebody to talk to. [01:28:40.928 – 01:28:44.048] You can't always spend all your time at the, at the flight school bar. [01:28:44.048 – 01:28:45.308] You gotta go ahead.

[01:28:45.308 – 01:28:50.388] And some of these guys were being faced with, you know, shooting down some planes and things like that. [01:28:50.388 – 01:28:51.928] So he, he did it. [01:28:51.928 – 01:28:52.167] Jesus. [01:28:52.167 – 01:28:52.928] He had, he… [01:28:52.928 – 01:29:03.068] Some of his, in his writings he talks about some major sp- You know, he just really t- The depth of, of meeting with a young pilot who had just come [01:29:03.068 – 01:29:07.008] back from his first mission where he, where he, uh, shot somebody down. [01:29:07.008 – 01:29:07.678] Mm.

[01:29:07.678 – 01:29:11.418] Um, that's what Sam was born for, to stand by the door- Interesting … [01:29:11.418 – 01:29:12.828] and listen to guys like this. [01:29:12.828 – 01:29:13.888] Oh, thank you. [01:29:13.888 – 01:29:15.967] Maybe not to, maybe just give them comfort. [01:29:15.967 – 01:29:17.368] Maybe not tell them what to do. [01:29:17.368 – 01:29:18.597] I see. [01:29:18.597 – 01:29:19.488] He was a good listener.

[01:29:19.488 – 01:29:20.888] Okay. [01:29:20.888 – 01:29:22.028] Well, thank you so much. [01:29:22.028 – 01:29:23.068] I appreciate it. [01:29:23.068 – 01:29:24.888] Thank you, Kathy. [01:29:24.888 – 01:29:26.528] Hello, Barbara G. [01:29:26.528 – 01:29:30.788] Hey, David. [01:29:30.788 – 01:29:32.168] Hello family.

[01:29:32.168 – 01:29:41.448] Patrick, I think, uh, my question to you would be, I do not know the history as you guys do, and ladies. [01:29:41.448 – 01:29:51.728] Um, but as W. speaks about spiritual advisor, he is talking about S. and Ed D. in, [01:29:51.728 – 01:29:52.668] in the big book. [01:29:52.668 – 01:29:58.268] And do you believe this is where he did his inventory work, would be with these men? [01:29:58.268 – 01:30:08.388] Part of the process of the, of, uh, that they used in the Oxford Group was a, was a deep and searching moral inventory. [01:30:08.388 – 01:30:14.828] That's how he was changed by Bookman, and then confessing himself. [01:30:14.828 – 01:30:19.188] So I, I th- Spiritual advisor could be a generic term.

[01:30:19.188 – 01:30:22.328] It could be a whole group of people as far as I know. [01:30:22.328 – 01:30:25.428] Uh, it doesn't have to be one particular. [01:30:25.428 – 01:30:30.128] There could be some people unknown that we don't, we haven't run into yet. [01:30:30.128 – 01:30:31.788] But just a, you know, he… [01:30:31.788 – 01:30:35.158] S- somebody gives you advice, you bounce it off of them. [01:30:35.158 – 01:30:42.428] And that, I guess you would call that, if, if it's not of how to fix a car or if it has to do with some, uh… [01:30:42.428 – 01:30:45.168] It, it, that's a spiritual advisor, I would think.

[01:30:45.168 – 01:30:49.528] From time to time even a sponsor has become a spiritual advisor. [01:30:49.528 – 01:30:51.708] They, you know, you can wear many different hats. [01:30:51.708 – 01:30:55.208] I think he had a lot of advisors that he bounced people off. [01:30:55.208 – 01:30:57.268] That Ed D. was definitely one. [01:30:57.268 – 01:30:59.468] Uh, Sam S. was one. [01:30:59.468 – 01:31:04.648] But I'm sure that there were many others, uh, that we don't even know about. [01:31:04.648 – 01:31:09.708] And they didn't, they didn't say, "Hey, I helped him, I helped him." They didn't, they didn't care.

[01:31:09.708 – 01:31:11.328] They were just good people. [01:31:11.328 – 01:31:16.728] So the message was more important than the messengers, Patrick, yeah? [01:31:16.728 – 01:31:17.728] Absolutely. [01:31:17.728 – 01:31:24.647] And it was put in, in a, in a, in, in, uh, the language of the day is what they say. [01:31:24.647 – 01:31:34.648] They were taking history, they were taking scripture, they were taking things that they had learned the principles of, and then translating it into the language [01:31:34.648 – 01:31:37.148] of the day, rather than quoting from a… [01:31:37.148 – 01:31:47.288] Sam, Sam knew the Bible cold, but when he talked to people, he didn't, didn't go ahead and say, "Read, you know, such and such, such and such." He t- he just explained

[01:31:47.288 – 01:31:50.118] it in, in his own language, that you could understand. [01:31:50.118 – 01:31:59.828] Whether it be the guy who was the red cap who was running those little prayer groups in Grand C. Station, or the, the high and the mighty. [01:31:59.828 – 01:32:01.188] I mean, at National… [01:32:01.188 – 01:32:05.568] You know, to be considered to be the rector of the National C. is a big deal. [01:32:05.568 – 01:32:07.688] That is a big deal. [01:32:07.688 – 01:32:14.508] That's probably the primary church in the United States in terms of everybody knows of it. [01:32:14.508 – 01:32:15.048] Okay?

[01:32:15.048 – 01:32:18.928] Uh, not that it, it is, but I mean, it just is there. [01:32:18.928 – 01:32:21.628] I mean, that's where, that's where these people are buried from. [01:32:21.628 – 01:32:28.348] That's where they, that's where they, they bury, uh, you know, uh, Madelei- Madeleine Al- Albright just recently, for instance. [01:32:28.348 – 01:32:30.308] That's, that, that, that is the place. [01:32:30.308 – 01:32:34.158] It is a, is a, uh, it, it, it's almost non-denomination- [01:32:35.168 – 01:32:36.068] but it's spiritual. [01:32:36.068 – 01:32:38.628] He was a player.

[01:32:38.628 – 01:32:43.028] He was, he, he was a player Thank, thank you, Barbara. [01:32:43.028 – 01:32:44.998] And we got Drew. [01:32:44.998 – 01:32:47.208] Hello, Drew, in Atlanta, I believe, I got it right. [01:32:47.208 – 01:32:47.928] Hello, Drew. [01:32:47.928 – 01:32:53.208] Everyone, um, uh, Patrick, first off, thank… [01:32:53.208 – 01:32:54.588] Man, that was excellent. [01:32:54.588 – 01:32:56.728] In fact, it was actually beyond excellent.

[01:32:56.728 – 01:32:59.208] Uh, thank you for, for, for sharing that. [01:32:59.208 – 01:33:01.228] That was, that was, uh, powerful. [01:33:01.228 – 01:33:03.728] Uh, it kind of affected me as well. [01:33:03.728 – 01:33:05.168] Uh, so thank you for that. [01:33:05.168 – 01:33:16.028] And, uh, I guess the, the, the only question would be was there any kind of, uh, like, notification that, that Sam was either pre-interacting [01:33:16.028 – 01:33:24.328] with, um, you know, the, the Emmanuel C. in Boston, or after his ordainment did he do any kind of like guest, you know, speaking up there, or? [01:33:24.328 – 01:33:29.198] He was a, he was a seeker, and he went up there while he was at St.

[01:33:29.198 – 01:33:29.648] George's. [01:33:29.648 – 01:33:30.178] Okay. [01:33:30.178 – 01:33:31.758] That's a, that's a, this is- That's the thing … [01:33:31.758 – 01:33:36.248] these guys were not worrying about going to a, a, you know, NBA finals. [01:33:36.248 – 01:33:37.608] They would go to, uh… [01:33:37.608 – 01:33:43.628] They heard a lot about the Emmanuel C., and he was a mis- he, he, he liked religious stuff. [01:33:43.628 – 01:33:45.768] And it was Episcopal, by the way, remember.

[01:33:45.768 – 01:33:46.228] Yeah. [01:33:46.228 – 01:33:47.348] So there was a link there. [01:33:47.348 – 01:33:51.638] It's only a short train ride away, or a bus or something like that- Well- … [01:33:51.638 – 01:33:51.818] from St. [01:33:51.818 – 01:33:52.547] George's. [01:33:52.547 – 01:33:52.827] Yeah … [01:33:52.827 – 01:34:01.128] we're, we're, we're gonna have to go into that, uh, uh, I guess it's the cafeteria, where we'll, we'll make our way in and, you know, get the pictures off the wall somehow.

[01:34:01.128 – 01:34:02.368] That's the St. [01:34:02.368 – 01:34:07.548] George's School in, in Middletown, Rhode I., uh, which is adjacent to Newport. [01:34:07.548 – 01:34:09.988] Uh, and that, that was- That's awesome … [01:34:09.988 – 01:34:11.348] Dick, that was my friend Dick B. [01:34:11.348 – 01:34:16.308] Just, he called me up, I think it was Monday of this week, and, and, and called me that. [01:34:16.308 – 01:34:17.708] That's nuts. [01:34:17.708 – 01:34:18.528] That's awesome, man.

[01:34:18.528 – 01:34:19.088] Good stuff. [01:34:19.088 – 01:34:20.348] You were excellent tonight. [01:34:20.348 – 01:34:21.268] That was, uh, incredible. [01:34:21.268 – 01:34:21.768] Thanks, man. [01:34:21.768 – 01:34:23.208] Thank you, Drew. [01:34:23.208 – 01:34:24.068] Good to see you. [01:34:24.068 – 01:34:26.988] And we've got Eddie G.

[01:34:26.988 – 01:34:29.128] Eddie G's here. [01:34:29.128 – 01:34:31.878] Thanks, Patrick. [01:34:31.878 – 01:34:34.728] Oh, uh, yeah, thanks, Patrick, I really appreciate it. [01:34:34.728 – 01:34:45.187] I, I, I, I just want, I want you to clarify what was going on in, um, when, when, when, when Sam S. was asked, [01:34:45.187 – 01:34:54.368] uh, by Bookman to, to look after, uh, well, to, to be the Oxford Group leader, say, in New York. [01:34:54.368 – 01:35:01.268] Um, so, so the difference between Calvary C., Calvary H., and Calvary M.. [01:35:01.268 – 01:35:04.348] So what I'm thinking of is this.

[01:35:04.348 – 01:35:13.768] So, um, Calvary H. probably they had Oxford Group meetings there or they had their offices there. [01:35:13.768 – 01:35:21.268] Calvary C., Sam S. would, um, uh, do his sermons and all that. [01:35:21.268 – 01:35:27.068] But it wasn't really Oxford Group related, it was more, like, I guess Faith T. Works. [01:35:27.068 – 01:35:31.468] And then the Calvary M. was Faith T. Works in action. [01:35:31.468 – 01:35:33.988] Is that sort of- No, no. [01:35:33.988 – 01:35:34.088] … [01:35:34.088 – 01:35:34.158] it?

[01:35:34.158 – 01:35:36.468] No, there, there were three, they were separate entities. [01:35:36.468 – 01:35:39.728] The, the, the Calvary C. was a Episcopal church. [01:35:39.728 – 01:35:40.628] Okay. [01:35:40.628 – 01:35:45.268] And a lot of these people are all in the same neighborhood, so they, they might go to the same thing. [01:35:45.268 – 01:35:45.468] Okay. [01:35:45.468 – 01:35:53.008] Calvary H. was a building that had some large meeting rooms, and they hosted meetings seven days a week for, uh, all kinds of things. [01:35:53.008 – 01:35:53.658] Okay.

[01:35:53.658 – 01:35:56.528] So they would allow the Oxford Group to have meetings there. [01:35:56.528 – 01:35:59.088] You know, they, I mean, they, they encouraged it. [01:35:59.088 – 01:36:09.088] They encour- they had, they, that thing was built for community service, and that is where they had a bookstore and that's where they had, uh, they had all different types of [01:36:09.088 – 01:36:09.968] outreach programs. [01:36:09.968 – 01:36:16.708] Calvary M. was help people first, and it was, it was a lay missionary type situation. [01:36:16.708 – 01:36:22.998] Many, there were many of them that existed in the United States from after the Civil W. all the way through. [01:36:22.998 – 01:36:26.188] They're still around now, you know, s- missions, that had a…

[01:36:26.188 – 01:36:27.328] They, they're, they're spiritual. [01:36:27.328 – 01:36:30.028] They're not tied with any church to speak of. [01:36:30.028 – 01:36:30.078] Okay. [01:36:30.078 – 01:36:30.768] You know? [01:36:30.768 – 01:36:31.198] Mm-hmm. [01:36:31.198 – 01:36:33.008] They, they're just, they're guys that just work. [01:36:33.008 – 01:36:39.028] Guys like Hadley, whose mission was, you know, I, I'm s- uh, sure he never made a buck.

[01:36:39.028 – 01:36:39.428] And the other… [01:36:39.428 – 01:36:42.428] I mean, he liked helping people because he was helped before. [01:36:42.428 – 01:36:46.618] I mean, it's, it's, it's hard for us to imagine that type of- Yeah … [01:36:46.618 – 01:36:47.948] uh, feeling these days. [01:36:47.948 – 01:36:51.128] But, but there are people like that, thank God. [01:36:51.128 – 01:36:51.628] You know? [01:36:51.628 – 01:36:53.568] Okay.

[01:36:53.568 – 01:36:54.568] Tha- thanks very much. [01:36:54.568 – 01:36:55.628] You clarified it. [01:36:55.628 – 01:36:56.448] That's good. [01:36:56.448 – 01:36:57.148] Thank you. [01:36:57.148 – 01:36:57.928] Very well done. [01:36:57.928 – 01:36:58.388] Thank you. [01:36:58.388 – 01:37:00.088] Thank you, everyone.

[01:37:00.088 – 01:37:05.687] Un- unless there's any more, we, we'll go back to Patrick and, and close with, uh, maybe a thought or something, Patrick. [01:37:05.687 – 01:37:08.388] Just prior to that, just wanna bring people's attention again… [01:37:08.388 – 01:37:09.598] Oh, here's Azel. [01:37:09.598 – 01:37:11.687] Azel, quickly, jump in, Azel. [01:37:11.687 – 01:37:13.048] You've earned it. [01:37:13.048 – 01:37:14.028] You've earned the stripes. [01:37:14.028 – 01:37:14.328] Go on.

[01:37:14.328 – 01:37:15.427] Quickly. [01:37:15.427 – 01:37:25.568] Um, Patrick, uh, my question is given the success of the small [01:37:25.568 – 01:37:35.588] group, um, process, why, why in your opinion do you [01:37:35.588 – 01:37:39.228] think that didn't follow through in AA? [01:37:39.228 – 01:37:41.188] Oh, I think it has followed through. [01:37:41.188 – 01:37:43.368] I, it depends on the, the area that you're in. [01:37:43.368 – 01:37:46.108] I mean, my group in St.

[01:37:46.108 – 01:37:55.488] Thomas was, uh, in the Virgin I. back in the, uh, in, in 1990 or around there, was like 12 people sitting on desks and chairs around a room. [01:37:55.488 – 01:37:56.868] Everybody was face to face. [01:37:56.868 – 01:37:58.388] It wasn't… [01:37:58.388 – 01:37:59.608] And, and you go… [01:37:59.608 – 01:38:00.888] There were so many- [01:38:01.068 – 01:38:06.808] meetings of different types around the world, and most of them, I believe, are probably small groups. [01:38:06.808 – 01:38:12.088] We're not all gonna be, um, you know, having parking lot attendance.

[01:38:12.088 – 01:38:18.188] I mean, uh, you know, my group in Boston, uh, we thought it was gonna be attend- it, it used to have, we used to draw a… [01:38:18.188 – 01:38:21.588] But it wasn't a discussion meeting, it was a speakers meeting. [01:38:21.588 – 01:38:23.408] So you'd sit and you'd listen. [01:38:23.408 – 01:38:30.798] But discussion meetings have to be small by their basic nature, otherwise you're kidding yourself, you know? [01:38:30.798 – 01:38:33.367] And, and, uh, we used to have five speakers or so. [01:38:33.367 – 01:38:34.678] We'd have 200 and some people. [01:38:34.678 – 01:38:40.968] But then we had a beginners meeting on a different night, which was a Q&A and, and that type of stuff.

[01:38:40.968 – 01:38:41.928] And, and you go around. [01:38:41.928 – 01:38:43.928] I know what type of meeting to find. [01:38:43.928 – 01:38:46.908] I prefer the smaller meeting, you know? [01:38:46.908 – 01:38:50.348] And, uh, but it, it's, it depends on the group. [01:38:50.348 – 01:38:51.528] And also groups change. [01:38:51.528 – 01:38:55.168] Sometimes they might start off as a discussion meeting, a small one. [01:38:55.168 – 01:38:56.928] They may grow up into a big one.

[01:38:56.928 – 01:38:57.498] Mm-hmm. [01:38:57.498 – 01:39:02.948] And, you know, that's what ha- but all of them, please remember that all of them have an expiration date. [01:39:02.948 – 01:39:04.028] Okay? [01:39:04.028 – 01:39:06.708] They, uh, they're, it's just the way it is. [01:39:06.708 – 01:39:10.678] Um, and there's a, they used to say there's a wrench for every nut. [01:39:10.678 – 01:39:18.758] If you wanna find the meeting that to benefit you, you look hard enough, and I s- I know that you will be directed to find the meeting that's gonna suit your needs. [01:39:18.758 – 01:39:20.048] That's just my feeling.

[01:39:20.048 – 01:39:22.907] That's what you pray for, that's what you go ahead and ask for. [01:39:22.907 – 01:39:27.528] Find those people. [01:39:27.528 – 01:39:28.358] Thank you. [01:39:28.358 – 01:39:28.908] Thank you, Azel. [01:39:28.908 – 01:39:32.988] And Robbie W., Robbie, I don't know where you are. [01:39:32.988 – 01:39:33.968] Where, where are you coming in from? [01:39:33.968 – 01:39:37.728] Hey, uh, my name's Robbie, and I'm an alcoholic from Kansas C..

[01:39:37.728 – 01:39:38.768] Hello, Robbie. [01:39:38.768 – 01:39:39.568] Hello, Patrick. [01:39:39.568 – 01:39:40.668] This has been a great meeting. [01:39:40.668 – 01:39:46.228] Hey, I never heard, um, Sam S. being thrown in there as the chain. [01:39:46.228 – 01:39:56.248] Um, I was told and taught, I guess, that, uh, Ro- uh, Young, Carl Y. gave it to Rowland, Rowland gave it to Ebby, and Ebby [01:39:56.248 – 01:39:57.028] gave it to Bill. [01:39:57.028 – 01:40:03.948] I never, um, heard Sam S. in the mix of that, and can you break that down for me one more time?

[01:40:03.948 – 01:40:13.688] Also, Mike, I have a second question really quick that I also heard that, um, Harry T. or Bill wrote the steps and Tebow taught Bill how to work them. [01:40:13.688 – 01:40:14.628] Is that true? [01:40:14.628 – 01:40:16.928] Let's do the first one. [01:40:16.928 – 01:40:19.508] Le- Patrick, or either way, which- whatever way you wanna do it, Patrick. [01:40:19.508 – 01:40:19.688] Go on. [01:40:19.688 – 01:40:29.768] No, I think, I think you gotta look at, at, at, you know, the path to sobriety, there are a lot of tracks all heading in the same direction, and you get a lot of people going ahead and heading the [01:40:29.768 – 01:40:30.288] same place.

[01:40:30.288 – 01:40:32.128] Young was heading that way. [01:40:32.128 – 01:40:36.008] Uh, you know, they, they all just, there, there's not a single source. [01:40:36.008 – 01:40:38.628] It doesn't, doesn't mean that you all get together at one time. [01:40:38.628 – 01:40:49.008] Sometimes you're gonna converge upon a certain point, and all of a sudden find out that the message is repeated by different people that had no relations to each other, but they had the same [01:40:49.008 – 01:40:51.708] understanding or spirit or, or whatever it is. [01:40:51.708 – 01:40:57.537] And, uh, there, there's so much myth about the Carl Y., Rowland H. thing. [01:40:57.537 – 01:40:59.868] I don't wanna get into it, but I'll tell you one thing.

[01:40:59.868 – 01:41:00.808] Here, here's, here's me. [01:41:00.808 – 01:41:01.088] Okay. [01:41:01.088 – 01:41:05.208] He calls he calls Sam S. to speak at the convention. [01:41:05.208 – 01:41:07.417] Was it 1950 or, or '55? [01:41:07.417 – 01:41:08.368] I don't remember which. [01:41:08.368 – 01:41:18.308] If C. Young was such a big deal, how come it took Bill W. 30 years to go ahead and write him a letter? [01:41:18.308 – 01:41:22.768] Carl Y. meets with Rowland H. in 1931.

[01:41:22.768 – 01:41:26.368] Bill W. writes to Carl Y. in 1961. [01:41:26.368 – 01:41:28.088] Here we- You know? [01:41:28.088 – 01:41:32.368] If he played a big part, he would've been speaking at one of the conventions. [01:41:32.368 – 01:41:34.658] And he was the type of guy that would've showed up. [01:41:34.658 – 01:41:42.028] If he could show up at Clark U. in Worcester, Massachusetts in 1909, then he would've showed up in New York or Cleveland or St. [01:41:42.028 – 01:41:44.408] Louis or some place like that if he was asked. [01:41:44.408 – 01:41:45.968] But he sort of fell off a bit.

[01:41:45.968 – 01:41:55.228] And, and, you know, the, the story about how, what he was told, from what I understand, was not passed by Rowland H. to Bill W.. [01:41:55.228 – 01:41:59.968] It was passed by Seabury G. or one of those people to Bill W.. [01:41:59.968 – 01:42:02.858] "This is what I heard so and so said." I mean, everything… [01:42:02.858 – 01:42:04.988] Remember, in the court of law, that's all hearsay. [01:42:04.988 – 01:42:06.618] But we love hearsay, you know? [01:42:06.618 – 01:42:12.398] And, and by the time it gets to number five, you were sitting in the room and you heard him say it, you know? [01:42:12.398 – 01:42:13.328] That's what happens.

[01:42:13.328 – 01:42:15.208] That's what people are like. [01:42:15.208 – 01:42:22.088] I, I, you know, you gotta, you gotta wear your sobriety as a loose-fitting garment, as they say, you know? [01:42:22.088 – 01:42:25.628] And if you don't believe all, all the points of it, that's okay. [01:42:25.628 – 01:42:26.908] You can stay sober too. [01:42:26.908 – 01:42:35.998] You know, we know people that have stayed sober with three meetings a day or maybe couldn't stay sober, and we know people that go to one a month or one a year. [01:42:35.998 – 01:42:43.368] And sometimes people get sober, they get their lives back together again, and they never go to AA again. [01:42:43.368 – 01:42:46.868] And if you don't know them, you haven't been around a long time.

[01:42:46.868 – 01:42:48.228] But they're good people. [01:42:48.228 – 01:42:49.268] They got what they needed. [01:42:49.268 – 01:42:53.048] I think it was Ward E. spoke the other day, or maybe it was somebody else. [01:42:53.048 – 01:43:00.908] It said it's like somebody who came to the buffet, they took what they wanted, they felt satisfied, and they left and they went on with their life. [01:43:00.908 – 01:43:03.868] They didn't come back for seconds, but they stayed sober. [01:43:03.868 – 01:43:08.048] I think that you gotta, you gotta remember there are many, many roads around here. [01:43:08.048 – 01:43:09.928] Did you mention Harry T.?

[01:43:09.928 – 01:43:11.708] Did, did you do, do that one, Patrick? [01:43:11.708 – 01:43:13.008] Did you- No, I, I haven't. [01:43:13.008 – 01:43:16.828] I've read Harry T.'s stuff, and I think he was a great player in the middle of it. [01:43:16.828 – 01:43:21.708] And once again, I think he would be reading the thing and then reinterpreting the same thing. [01:43:21.708 – 01:43:23.448] They were all on the same page. [01:43:23.448 – 01:43:25.648] They, they were all in the… [01:43:25.648 – 01:43:27.618] Now, it's pro- probable that, that-

[01:43:27.798 – 01:43:30.378] S. and Ha- I haven't dug into Harry T.. [01:43:30.378 – 01:43:32.808] Uh, but I ima- they were all in the same thing. [01:43:32.808 – 01:43:36.128] They would have been at the same church breakfast together, you know? [01:43:36.128 – 01:43:39.548] Or same, or somebody's inauguration or something like that. [01:43:39.548 – 01:43:43.308] They were, they were at the, it was, we're talking the 1930s, right? [01:43:43.308 – 01:43:46.028] And we're talking professional people who are well-respected. [01:43:46.028 – 01:43:48.378] So of course they knew him.

[01:43:48.378 – 01:43:50.848] If they didn't know each other, they knew somebody that knew each other. [01:43:50.848 – 01:43:51.848] Thank you. [01:43:51.848 – 01:43:58.888] Robbie, hopefully that's helped you there, and, uh, maybe stick around and we'll, like, get my email to you, and we'll send you out the flyers. [01:43:58.888 – 01:43:59.308] Thank you. [01:43:59.308 – 01:44:02.308] Uh, Drew, Drew's gonna come back to us soon. [01:44:02.308 – 01:44:03.768] Just wanna bring this to your attention. [01:44:03.768 – 01:44:11.208] Drew, I'm delighted to say, I've just, Drew's gonna do a talk maybe on Frank A. for us, and he's definitely gonna do something fun about the women of AA, I believe.

[01:44:11.208 – 01:44:12.028] Is that right, Drew? [01:44:12.028 – 01:44:15.448] Yes, got the thumbs up from Drew. [01:44:15.448 – 01:44:15.808] Brilliant. [01:44:15.808 – 01:44:17.628] Now we're going to Lynn B. [01:44:17.628 – 01:44:18.508] Hello, Lynn B. [01:44:18.508 – 01:44:21.788] Hey, David. [01:44:21.788 – 01:44:26.528] Um, tha- sorry, I had to stop the car to talk to you guys.

[01:44:26.528 – 01:44:26.698] Well done. [01:44:26.698 – 01:44:26.968] Good. [01:44:26.968 – 01:44:27.058] Good. [01:44:27.058 – 01:44:27.428] Thank you. [01:44:27.428 – 01:44:28.458] I know, right? [01:44:28.458 – 01:44:29.748] Yeah. [01:44:29.748 – 01:44:31.388] Um, thank you, Patrick.

[01:44:31.388 – 01:44:33.148] That was just mesmerizing. [01:44:33.148 – 01:44:35.108] That was, that was really interesting. [01:44:35.108 – 01:44:35.688] I loved it. [01:44:35.688 – 01:44:39.768] I was wondering, um, a couple of things. [01:44:39.768 – 01:44:41.668] This is a silly little question. [01:44:41.668 – 01:44:49.028] I've, I've run, I love "I stand by the door," and then sometimes you run across, "I stand at the door." That's a stupid little question. [01:44:49.028 – 01:44:51.848] I don't know if you know which one is the one that he…

[01:44:51.848 – 01:44:52.407] No, okay. [01:44:52.407 – 01:45:02.748] But the other one was, do we have any, I would imagine that nobody, like, took notes w- while they sat there and listened to him do his one-on-ones [01:45:02.748 – 01:45:03.328] with people. [01:45:03.328 – 01:45:13.588] But since he seemed to be so great at it, um, do we have people that kind of gave, um, a, a transcript or a, [01:45:13.588 – 01:45:23.808] a, you know, talked about this is kinda what he would say, this is how he would, um, communicate with people in a way that really drew them out and brought them to, [01:45:23.808 – 01:45:26.348] to a higher power or Jesus or whatever? [01:45:26.348 – 01:45:30.688] Well, you know, they, I, you know, I don't think, he didn't invent that process.

[01:45:30.688 – 01:45:34.068] Uh, there is a book, I'm trying to remember. [01:45:34.068 – 01:45:40.248] Uh, it's, it was written in 1914, Those W. Came B. or something like that, by McKenna. [01:45:40.248 – 01:45:50.388] And he gives a detailed talk of Elwood W. from the, from the, uh, Emmanuel G., meeting with a guy who had a problem with alcohol and going [01:45:50.388 – 01:45:53.548] through the discussion, uh, in that book. [01:45:53.548 – 01:45:54.868] And it's really, I loved it. [01:45:54.868 – 01:45:58.108] And then, and it, he finally said, "Now you finally got it. [01:45:58.108 – 01:45:59.468] You can't drink in safety.

[01:45:59.468 – 01:46:02.388] Get on your knees." That's what they were like. [01:46:02.388 – 01:46:07.268] But they s- they, they took a long time and they, you know, it, but this was personal stuff. [01:46:07.268 – 01:46:08.428] It, just like your step. [01:46:08.428 – 01:46:11.408] You don't take notes and publish or, I, I- No … [01:46:11.408 – 01:46:17.408] in this day and age, I'm sure there are people in AA who are selling their, uh, their story on their fifth step. [01:46:17.408 – 01:46:20.068] I mean, they, there's a couple of traditions get missed. [01:46:20.068 – 01:46:24.788] But, uh- It, it, but I mean, it, it's a personal thing.

[01:46:24.788 – 01:46:30.008] And if it really had weight and depth, as that term is, I, I don't think they would. [01:46:30.008 – 01:46:37.167] I would, it's just, it's a per- you can't put, I can't myself, I can't put words to a really deep personal experience. [01:46:37.167 – 01:46:39.108] Uh, we talked about it the other day. [01:46:39.108 – 01:46:44.558] The old Rastas used to say, "He who knows it, feels it." Yeah. [01:46:44.558 – 01:46:44.908] Yeah, yeah. [01:46:44.908 – 01:46:45.238] That's it. [01:46:45.238 – 01:46:45.568] Yeah.

[01:46:45.568 – 01:46:47.888] He know- No, I- You're- Yeah, I appreciate that. [01:46:47.888 – 01:46:49.848] He just apparently had such a gift. [01:46:49.848 – 01:46:53.598] I was just curious, like, "Oh, I wanna be a fly on the wall." But- Mm … [01:46:53.598 – 01:46:55.118] that, that poem itself is- I didn't, I didn't think he- … [01:46:55.118 – 01:46:56.058] is enough, you know? [01:46:56.058 – 01:46:57.568] He didn't want you on the wall. [01:46:57.568 – 01:46:58.228] Yeah.

[01:46:58.228 – 01:47:00.428] He, he w- it was one-on-one. [01:47:00.428 – 01:47:02.208] It was just like him talking to you. [01:47:02.208 – 01:47:03.888] You were the only person in the room. [01:47:03.888 – 01:47:04.178] Yeah. [01:47:04.178 – 01:47:05.728] That's why he did it one-on-one. [01:47:05.728 – 01:47:08.088] You know? [01:47:08.088 – 01:47:08.348] Yeah.

[01:47:08.348 – 01:47:11.628] He, he was, it, it, there are people like that. [01:47:11.628 – 01:47:14.388] There are people like that around still. [01:47:14.388 – 01:47:15.608] Thank you. [01:47:15.608 – 01:47:18.048] Thank you, Lynn. [01:47:18.048 – 01:47:20.608] Marlene S. [01:47:20.608 – 01:47:23.788] Hello, Marlene. [01:47:23.788 – 01:47:24.628] Hi.

[01:47:24.628 – 01:47:27.728] I absolutely enjoyed this. [01:47:27.728 – 01:47:38.428] I have a great appreciation for the gentlemen and ladies that, um, do the deep work of all these different beautiful connections [01:47:38.428 – 01:47:40.468] that happen. [01:47:40.468 – 01:47:48.468] Um, I'm a member of an archive committee, and I think I just scratched the surface of what we wanna do. [01:47:48.468 – 01:47:51.948] Just wanna have a shout-out to Eddy, Eddy from the beaches. [01:47:51.948 – 01:48:00.708] Um, I love the f- that was, it, it's random. [01:48:00.708 – 01:48:03.268] I love the fact that it can't be scripted.

[01:48:03.268 – 01:48:13.368] I love the fact that it is a random spiritual experience, and I love when you talked about, just re- on one of the [01:48:13.368 – 01:48:19.248] questions, you said, "We love hearsay," and oh my God, do we love hear- I love that. [01:48:19.248 – 01:48:28.688] I, I, I've just learned more and more, and I, I, I just, I don't have a question, I just wanna s- just express my love and appreciation. [01:48:28.688 – 01:48:30.308] Thank you very much. [01:48:30.308 – 01:48:33.668] Well, thank you for your enthusiasm as well. [01:48:33.668 – 01:48:34.368] That was great. [01:48:34.368 – 01:48:35.388] I loved that.

[01:48:35.388 – 01:48:36.348] Thank you very much. [01:48:36.348 – 01:48:39.468] Patrick, did you wanna come back on that there? [01:48:39.468 – 01:48:43.248] No, I, I, I just think there's a lot of stuff. [01:48:43.248 – 01:48:47.168] I think it's more vibrant when you start realizing how this happened. [01:48:47.168 – 01:48:51.747] To me, that's, that's what makes it, makes it work, you know? [01:48:51.747 – 01:48:54.338] Um, it, it- [01:48:54.648 – 01:49:02.068] And, and, and that one person didn't come up with it, and it took, you know, I, I, I it takes a village, right?

[01:49:02.068 – 01:49:03.608] But, you know. [01:49:03.608 – 01:49:10.528] But I like, like, I like coming across, and I forget who sent me the, the thing on, on Sam S.. [01:49:10.528 – 01:49:12.048] I can see it. [01:49:12.048 – 01:49:13.987] I, I had a sponsor that was like that. [01:49:13.987 – 01:49:16.627] He could play on a guy's ego. [01:49:16.627 – 01:49:26.828] And, and he would take him one on one, and they would think they were the only person in the world, and he worked them until, until they were, [01:49:26.828 – 01:49:33.268] they were finally comfortable and they said, "Geez, I might try that too." And, and it, the, he didn't, he didn't…

[01:49:33.268 – 01:49:36.728] His big deal was, "Let's get him sober first, Patrick. [01:49:36.728 – 01:49:42.648] Let's not worry about that." And, and sometimes he'd say, you'd say, or we're going and say… [01:49:42.648 – 01:49:53.888] It, Jim would say, "I think it's probably better if I ride with Eddie, and we're gonna drive from Boston to Portland, Maine." And [01:49:53.888 – 01:49:54.408] they'd talk. [01:49:54.408 – 01:49:55.618] And you know they weren't- Mm-hmm … [01:49:55.618 – 01:49:56.578] talking about fishing. [01:49:56.578 – 01:50:01.348] Eddie was trying to get sober, and Jim was trying to tell him what he had done.

[01:50:01.348 – 01:50:04.558] He was relating his own personal strength and hope. [01:50:04.558 – 01:50:08.848] "This is what I did, and you can do it too." And then answer the question. [01:50:08.848 – 01:50:11.548] That's what AA is about, I think. [01:50:11.548 – 01:50:12.267] You know. [01:50:12.267 – 01:50:15.108] So that was one of the five C's then, the conviction. [01:50:15.108 – 01:50:16.038] He- One person talking to another. [01:50:16.038 – 01:50:17.738] Bill W. talked to Dr.

[01:50:17.738 – 01:50:18.268] Bob. [01:50:18.268 – 01:50:22.168] What went on, how long it lasted, it could've been 15 minutes for all we know. [01:50:22.168 – 01:50:24.948] Let's not let the truth get in the way of a good story. [01:50:24.948 – 01:50:26.168] He got the message. [01:50:26.168 – 01:50:26.828] Dr. [01:50:26.828 – 01:50:28.948] Bob said he knows what he's talking about. [01:50:28.948 – 01:50:31.688] I think I'll do what he's doing, and maybe I'll get the same results.

[01:50:31.688 – 01:50:32.828] That's what it is, right? [01:50:32.828 – 01:50:35.688] That's great, Patrick. [01:50:35.688 – 01:50:37.508] I'm not gonna tell you what to do. [01:50:37.508 – 01:50:39.668] I'm gonna walk along with you and show you what I did. [01:50:39.668 – 01:50:41.088] Well, it's great to have you here. [01:50:41.088 – 01:50:46.828] We, we could keep you here all night, Patrick, but, uh, uh, we, we, we might go into the meeting after the meeting, and we'll stop the recording. [01:50:46.828 – 01:50:49.907] I know some people don't like being recorded to ask a question.

[01:50:49.907 – 01:50:52.228] But thank you everyone for your participation. [01:50:52.228 – 01:50:53.728] I really do appreciate it. [01:50:53.728 – 01:50:55.848] Uh, Patrick, we'll go, we'll… [01:50:55.848 – 01:50:56.528] Thank you everyone. [01:50:56.528 – 01:50:58.028] Yeah, Drew, thank you very much. [01:50:58.028 – 01:50:59.708] Just wanna tell you what's going… [01:50:59.708 – 01:51:01.268] Just remind you, I guess.

[01:51:01.268 – 01:51:02.888] You already know this, uh, hopefully. [01:51:02.888 – 01:51:04.338] The new, we have Jim W.. [01:51:04.338 – 01:51:07.228] That's not the flyer, but that's just something that we're gonna get to work on. [01:51:07.228 – 01:51:11.628] The AA New Thought Con- Connection, um, I love, I love that. [01:51:11.628 – 01:51:12.508] I love connections. [01:51:12.508 – 01:51:17.028] I love make, joining the dots, as Patrick so eloquently done last week. [01:51:17.028 – 01:51:18.968] It was wonderful to hear that presentation last week.

[01:51:18.968 – 01:51:20.618] I just wanna bring this to your attention as well. [01:51:20.618 – 01:51:23.008] I do, I just love the, the, the amount of people. [01:51:23.008 – 01:51:24.748] Look, we have Bill S. is there. [01:51:24.748 – 01:51:26.928] Patrick is involved in this. [01:51:26.928 – 01:51:32.348] You know, Kesting C, got Drew H there, look, and Dave M. [01:51:32.348 – 01:51:35.388] I mean, so what, what a great line-up that is, and that's in one day. [01:51:35.388 – 01:51:39.008] Before you have to wait a year for that kind of stuff.

[01:51:39.008 – 01:51:40.908] Now we're getting it all in one day. [01:51:40.908 – 01:51:42.108] It's awesome, isn't it? [01:51:42.108 – 01:51:44.288] And we're gonna go down this road soon. [01:51:44.288 – 01:51:48.468] Um, in August, um, just we would like to be able to welcome Joe with us. [01:51:48.468 – 01:51:50.928] Uh, this is titled Living S.. [01:51:50.928 – 01:51:51.928] Or no, it's not titled that. [01:51:51.928 – 01:51:56.308] It's No G., No P.: The Remarkable History of Secular AA.

[01:51:56.308 – 01:51:58.908] So, you know, we're very broad-minded here. [01:51:58.908 – 01:52:06.848] And just to bring this to your attention as well, uh, the Stepping S. Historic H. of Bill and Lois W.. [01:52:06.848 – 01:52:11.458] There you go, 71st annual Stepping S. Lois F. Groups P.. [01:52:11.458 – 01:52:15.828] And that, it got four speakers who met Bill or Lois. [01:52:15.828 – 01:52:21.948] So th- they shook the hand, they shook the hand, I guess, is the, is the old saying I used to hear. [01:52:21.948 – 01:52:25.348] Patrick is giving a nice giggle for that one. [01:52:25.348 – 01:52:28.628] I've heard that too.

[01:52:28.628 – 01:52:32.518] If they had the truck, they had the truck, they had the truck, Bill W.. [01:52:32.518 – 01:52:33.288] I know. [01:52:33.288 – 01:52:35.288] I was impressed by that when I was new. [01:52:35.288 – 01:52:38.928] But, uh, the evolution of The Big Book, some of our major changes. [01:52:38.928 – 01:52:41.108] Randy, jump in there please. [01:52:41.108 – 01:52:51.368] Uh, it's, it's just I'm going through from the major changes, uh, some of the major changes inside, [01:52:51.368 – 01:53:01.428] outside the book, some of the nuances that people might not know about that happened, uh, mis- throughout, throughout

[01:53:01.428 – 01:53:02.948] all four versions. [01:53:02.948 – 01:53:05.988] Uh, sorry, four editions of The Big Book. [01:53:05.988 – 01:53:06.728] That's all. [01:53:06.728 – 01:53:07.008] Thank you. [01:53:07.008 – 01:53:08.248] Thank you, Randy. [01:53:08.248 – 01:53:09.248] We're looking forward to that. [01:53:09.248 – 01:53:12.267] So P., we're gonna go back to you and then we close the, uh, meeting.

[01:53:12.267 – 01:53:13.148] Thank you. [01:53:13.148 – 01:53:15.428] We really do appreciate you, Fra- Patrick. [01:53:15.428 – 01:53:15.928] Thank you. [01:53:15.928 – 01:53:20.448] We- we doing the closing prayer? [01:53:20.448 – 01:53:21.598] Yes, Patrick, thank you. [01:53:21.598 – 01:53:22.728] Which, of your choice. [01:53:22.728 – 01:53:22.998] Thank you.

[01:53:22.998 – 01:53:24.928] Well, I'll throw, I'll throw a trivia thing to you, though. [01:53:24.928 – 01:53:29.948] We're gonna do the Serenity P., which if you go ahead and you do… [01:53:29.948 – 01:53:37.088] Reinhold N. started writing it in 1932, and it never got finished according to his daughter. [01:53:37.088 – 01:53:37.768] Okay? [01:53:37.768 – 01:53:38.928] Wow. [01:53:38.928 – 01:53:39.968] All right? [01:53:39.968 – 01:53:48.368] It started in '32 while he was teaching, and people have picked out phrases that he ended up using in the Serenity P. many years later.

[01:53:48.368 – 01:53:50.328] AA picked it up in the, in the '40s. [01:53:50.328 – 01:53:55.568] Anyway, let's do the, uh, the Serenity P., whichever version you decide. [01:53:55.568 – 01:53:58.488] Uh, God- God … [01:53:58.488 – 01:54:00.148] of serenity- Grant me serenity … [01:54:00.148 – 01:54:09.828] who accepts- Who accepts things they cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference … [01:54:09.828 – 01:54:10.688] and the wisdom to know the difference. [01:54:10.688 – 01:54:11.428] Thank you.

[01:54:11.428 – 01:54:11.738] Welcome back. [01:54:11.738 – 01:54:12.408] Thank you, everyone. [01:54:12.408 – 01:54:13.798] Thank you. [01:54:13.798 – 01:54:14.468] Thank you so much. [01:54:14.468 – 01:54:14.958] Thank you, Patrick. [01:54:14.958 – 01:54:15.768] Thanks again, Patrick. [01:54:15.768 – 01:54:16.488] That was awesome, man.

[01:54:16.488 – 01:54:17.488] Thank you, Patrick. [01:54:17.488 – 01:54:18.298] Thank you, Patrick. [01:54:18.298 – 01:54:18.299] Thank you. [01:54:18.299 – 01:54:19.128] Thanks, Patrick.