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[00:00:01.540 – 00:00:02.320] And we're in the cloud. [00:00:02.320 – 00:00:03.780] My name is David, I'm an alcoholic. [00:00:03.780 – 00:00:08.580] And you're all very welcome to this, uh, open AA recovery workshop with Q&A. [00:00:08.580 – 00:00:10.250] And along with our Stewart C. [00:00:10.250 – 00:00:13.060] Hello, I'm Stewart, alcoholic. [00:00:13.060 – 00:00:14.080] Nice to see you all. [00:00:14.080 – 00:00:15.520] See you later for the Q&A.

[00:00:15.520 – 00:00:25.060] So this is one in a series of workshops which has been inspired by recoveryspeakers.com, and it's hosted by the Saturday night AA group in Camberwell, London, SE5. [00:00:25.060 – 00:00:28.950] And we are in the physical space every Saturday night at half past 7:00. [00:00:28.950 – 00:00:36.810] In keeping with AA's traditions, in particular tradition five, each AA group has but one primary purpose, to carry its message to the alcoholics who are still suffering. [00:00:36.810 – 00:00:46.940] Now, the main purpose of these workshops is to introduce and/or develop ideas and concepts, and hopefully to encourage participants to do some further investigation on their own. [00:00:46.940 – 00:00:54.720] And tonight, we're delighted sincerely to welcome back Ken B., who's known as Dick B.'s son, or he is Dick B.'s son. [00:00:54.720 – 00:00:58.840] And the title of it is How and Why AA Left the Oxford Group. [00:00:58.840 – 00:01:00.660] So we're really looking forward to this.

[00:01:00.660 – 00:01:04.850] And as I said, we've had a common thread throughout, uh, these workshops. [00:01:04.850 – 00:01:10.680] We're on about 200 and odd of these now, and I put some links if you wanna go back and look at some of the speakers we've had. [00:01:10.680 – 00:01:20.770] We've had a quote from step 10 in our basic text which says, "We have entered the world of the Spirit, and that our next function, of course, is to grow in understanding and effectiveness." [00:01:20.770 – 00:01:22.450] So it's not a two-step program, right? [00:01:22.450 – 00:01:29.020] So, um, the audio of tonight's presentation is being recorded, and what we do then is we pass it over to Mike K.. [00:01:29.020 – 00:01:33.140] We're delighted to pass it over to Mike, and Mike puts it up on recoveryspeakers.com. [00:01:33.140 – 00:01:35.900] So thank you all over there for that.

[00:01:35.900 – 00:01:45.100] We would like to point out that what is shared at these workshop meetings represents the experience, strength and hope of, uh, members, and ought not to be taken to represent the fellowship as a whole. [00:01:45.100 – 00:01:52.620] The AA 12 step proven program of recovery can be found in our basic textbook titled Alcoholics Anonymous, which we call the Big Book. [00:01:52.620 – 00:01:56.840] So that's if you're new, that's where the program can be found if you don't know that yet. [00:01:56.840 – 00:02:06.940] Uh, we're gonna just put up on the screen a version of the set aside prayer, which we love here to keep an open mind, and we also like having new experiences, good [00:02:06.940 – 00:02:08.600] or bad, for some reason. [00:02:08.600 – 00:02:11.680] So if you'd like to unmute, uh, please join in. [00:02:11.680 – 00:02:12.700] Nice to see you, Carla.

[00:02:12.700 – 00:02:13.460] Hello, how are you doing? [00:02:13.460 – 00:02:16.640] So we're using, um, God as you understand it. [00:02:16.640 – 00:02:27.020] God- God- Please help me set aside- Please help me set aside- Everything I think I know- Everything I think I know- For an open mind- [00:02:27.020 – 00:02:28.280] For an open mind- And a new experience. [00:02:28.280 – 00:02:29.430] And a new experience. [00:02:29.430 – 00:02:30.100] Amen. [00:02:30.100 – 00:02:30.320] Amen.

[00:02:30.320 – 00:02:40.430] And we j- thank you, and we'll just have a few moment's silence, gather our thoughts, reflect on why we're here, think of the alcoholics who are still believe in alcohol is their solution, [00:02:40.430 – 00:02:42.460] and of course, the family members. [00:02:42.460 – 00:02:52.560] So as I said, we're welcoming back, [00:02:52.560 – 00:02:53.060] uh, Ken. [00:02:53.060 – 00:02:54.620] Nice to have you, Ken. [00:02:54.620 – 00:02:57.920] We're gonna have a Q&A, and you, you, you'll stick around for a bit for that, will you, I'm sure? [00:02:57.920 – 00:02:58.510] Yeah.

[00:02:58.510 – 00:03:03.340] And, uh, just remind people that, uh, it's won't be disc- Ken, I'll put your details in the chat for people. [00:03:03.340 – 00:03:04.180] Is that okay as well? [00:03:04.180 – 00:03:05.150] Yes, please. [00:03:05.150 – 00:03:05.860] If people want to contact. [00:03:05.860 – 00:03:08.700] So the Q&A will be open, and Stewart will, uh, chair that. [00:03:08.700 – 00:03:10.410] So K., have a good meeting. [00:03:10.410 – 00:03:10.800] Over to you.

[00:03:10.800 – 00:03:11.900] Thank you. [00:03:11.900 – 00:03:18.080] Well, aloha everyone from the Valley I. of Hawaii. [00:03:18.080 – 00:03:20.620] I'm very excited to be back. [00:03:20.620 – 00:03:23.600] David, thank you very much for the re-invitation. [00:03:23.600 – 00:03:33.780] This is round three for me, and I'm really excited about this particular topic because it is how my dad, Dick B., got started [00:03:33.780 – 00:03:40.040] in his research, 25 years of AA history research, was about this group that we're talking about tonight. [00:03:40.040 – 00:03:49.820] And when I mentioned as a possible topic to David how AA left this group, he s- thought that was pretty appropriate.

[00:03:49.820 – 00:03:53.620] So I'm very excited to share that with you tonight a little bit. [00:03:53.620 – 00:03:58.800] So I'm gonna share the screen, and here we go. [00:03:58.800 – 00:04:06.140] So my topic tonight is How and Why AA Left the Oxford Group. [00:04:06.140 – 00:04:13.020] There's quite a bit I could say about the name, the Oxford Group, which I'll say a little bit about in a moment. [00:04:13.020 – 00:04:23.420] But I am Ken B., I go by Dick B.'s son, because when I go to open AA meetings I announce myself as a supported [00:04:23.420 – 00:04:23.940] son. [00:04:23.940 – 00:04:27.720] So now, very exciting.

[00:04:27.720 – 00:04:28.580] There we go. [00:04:28.580 – 00:04:38.720] So tonight I wanna go over a few things, but the first is a little bit about my dad and a very little bit about me [00:04:38.720 – 00:04:40.420] and how I fit into this picture. [00:04:40.420 – 00:04:48.450] My dad, uh, went by the pen name Dick B., and he was a very successful lawyer. [00:04:48.450 – 00:04:57.800] Uh, practiced, uh, in San Francisco for about 10 years, and then, uh, practiced solo practitioner in Marin in northern California. [00:04:57.800 – 00:05:07.940] And I actually had the opportunity to work with him for about six months as a paralegal in Marin at the end of 1985, [00:05:07.940 – 00:05:13.640] just before he entered AA on April 21st 1986.

[00:05:13.640 – 00:05:23.940] My dad had picked up an unwanted, uh, alcoholism to prescription sleeping pills starting the week before finals week at Stanford [00:05:23.940 – 00:05:25.640] Law S., and a numb- [00:05:25.796 – 00:05:28.816] of years later, he also became an alcoholic. [00:05:28.816 – 00:05:32.876] So his situation was very much like Dr. [00:05:32.876 – 00:05:33.656] Bob's. [00:05:33.656 – 00:05:40.656] He had a nightmare as well, which involved prescription sleeping pills for my dad and alcohol. [00:05:40.656 – 00:05:49.636] My dad's sobriety date was April 21st, 1986, and he was very active in AA.

[00:05:49.636 – 00:05:59.956] Uh, when I'm speaking in the past tense, it's because my dad passed away at age 90 on September the 12th, uh, nine- 2015, September [00:05:59.956 – 00:06:01.076] 12, 2015. [00:06:01.076 – 00:06:06.636] And when my dad came into AA, he got immediately very active. [00:06:06.636 – 00:06:15.116] He never drank or used after that date, so it was continuous sobriety more than 29 years when he passed away. [00:06:15.116 – 00:06:23.536] And in early 1990, a young AA named John that we both knew approached my dad and said… [00:06:23.536 – 00:06:31.316] And this happens to tie into the topic tonight and what's behind the group that we're discussing, actually. [00:06:31.316 – 00:06:41.375] And that is, this young, uh, AA said to my dad, "Hey, Dick, did you know that AA came from the Bible?" And my dad said, "John, I've been to 1,000 meetings.

[00:06:41.375 – 00:06:52.216] I never heard that." And I'm gonna stop the share and show you what my, my f- uh, he was a friend of mine as well, m- John showed to my dad, [00:06:52.216 – 00:06:54.896] and that was this book. [00:06:54.896 – 00:06:57.396] Perhaps you recognize it. [00:06:57.396 – 00:07:01.876] This is the AA General S. conference approved book, Dr. [00:07:01.876 – 00:07:06.776] Bob and the Good O.-Timers, that was published in 1980. [00:07:06.776 – 00:07:10.976] And so John suggested to my dad, "Well, why don't you read Dr. [00:07:10.976 – 00:07:17.016] Bob and the Good O.-Timers?" And that launched my dad on an effort.

[00:07:17.016 – 00:07:19.516] Going back to the screen here for a moment. [00:07:19.516 – 00:07:29.056] Uh, it launched my dad on his effort to answer that question, and that was, did AA come from the Bible? [00:07:29.056 – 00:07:32.116] Or to put it a little differently, was there any relationship to that? [00:07:32.116 – 00:07:42.136] And so my dad began to search AA materials, and he ended up going to the 1990 International C. [00:07:42.136 – 00:07:42.916] in Seattle. [00:07:42.916 – 00:07:45.956] He went to the Old-Timers meeting there. [00:07:45.956 – 00:07:53.096] He met Earl H., if somebody–as some of you know, going way back, some of the, the folks interested in AA history.

[00:07:53.096 – 00:08:03.176] And, uh, he was given a number of books, and he also got to meet the, uh, world archivist at the time, Frank M., who became good [00:08:03.176 – 00:08:03.875] friends with him. [00:08:03.875 – 00:08:13.436] And after that, he was told by Frank that Frank didn't really have very much about the Oxford Group to share with him. [00:08:13.436 – 00:08:23.596] He gave him what, what he had available, and that led my dad to going down to Akron for the first time, which was, I don't remember [00:08:23.596 – 00:08:29.965] exactly, but it was either late 1990 or early to mid 1991. [00:08:29.965 – 00:08:38.936] So he began his work, his research in AA history on the topic tonight, part of it anyway, and that was the Oxford Group. [00:08:38.936 – 00:08:48.756] That's what he knew about it, and he really didn't know much about it to speak of at that time, even though he'd gone to, the way I counted, at least 1,000 meetings by that time.

[00:08:48.756 – 00:08:51.136] He just didn't know very much about it. [00:08:51.136 – 00:08:53.226] I really don't think he even knew who Dr. [00:08:53.226 – 00:08:58.706] Bob was, and I don't believe he had, uh, any familiarity with Dr. [00:08:58.706 – 00:09:00.876] Bob and the Good O.-Timers. [00:09:00.876 – 00:09:10.896] And my dad was a lawyer, and he was trying to answer the question, not with the preposition, uh, presupposition that it was true or false, but [00:09:10.896 – 00:09:12.996] rather to find out what were the facts. [00:09:12.996 – 00:09:14.996] And so he went down to Akron.

[00:09:14.996 – 00:09:25.006] He met Sue, Sue S. Windows that I got to meet when I went down to Akron for Founders' Day in June of 1992, and we went back again for Founders' [00:09:25.006 – 00:09:26.596] Day in 1993. [00:09:26.596 – 00:09:36.616] And my dad's association with Sue S. Windows led him to get access to the books that [00:09:36.616 – 00:09:36.726] Dr. [00:09:36.726 – 00:09:40.596] Bob, uh, had left when he passed away. [00:09:40.596 – 00:09:42.275] The book, Dr. [00:09:42.275 – 00:09:45.356] Bob and the Good O.-Timers, had given the impression that Dr.

[00:09:45.356 – 00:09:52.876] Bob had, uh, given away, that those books had been given away by the woman who cared for Dr. [00:09:52.876 – 00:09:55.536] Bob and Ann in their final years in Akron. [00:09:55.536 – 00:10:05.636] And it turned out that actually, uh, half of those books, or a good chunk of them, had been left to Sue S. Windows, and the [00:10:05.636 – 00:10:10.506] other half had been left to Robert S., known as Smitty, Dr. [00:10:10.506 – 00:10:11.476] Bob's son. [00:10:11.476 – 00:10:20.936] And my dad was able to, uh, get a hold of, uh, lists of those books, and I helped him to, uh, assemble those books. [00:10:20.936 – 00:10:25.356] And so my dad's first book was actually Dr.

[00:10:25.356 – 00:10:27.136] Bob's Library. [00:10:27.136 – 00:10:28.576] It came– It's now known as Dr. [00:10:28.576 – 00:10:30.196] Bob and His L.. [00:10:30.196 – 00:10:34.066] But there were a lot of books about the Oxford Group in Dr. [00:10:34.066 – 00:10:36.706] Bob's library or Oxford Group people. [00:10:36.706 – 00:10:44.116] And, uh, my dad continued on in his study, and very shortly after he wrote Dr. [00:10:44.116 – 00:10:51.165] Bob's Library, he, he also wrote a book called Ann S.'s Journal, which has to do- had to do with the

[00:10:51.480 – 00:10:56.060] journal that Ann kept from 1933 to 1939. [00:10:56.060 – 00:11:06.079] But h- another book that he wrote was called The Oxford Group in Alcoholics Anonymous, which is exactly why I'm very happy to talk a [00:11:06.080 – 00:11:07.280] little bit about it tonight. [00:11:07.280 – 00:11:17.420] And so that's kind of how he got launched, and the net result that, that Frank M said to my dad, "Well, Dick, I think you have a book [00:11:17.420 – 00:11:27.540] in you." And, uh, at that time in 1990, I was working in the computer industry, and my dad, uh, asked me to set him up [00:11:27.540 – 00:11:29.840] on a computer to make it like a typewriter. [00:11:29.840 – 00:11:32.060] My dad probably typed 100 words a minute.

[00:11:32.060 – 00:11:41.340] And I set it up that way, and I got him a, a state-of-the-art tractor-fed, uh, dot matrix printer, and he promptly blew it up. [00:11:41.340 – 00:11:51.400] Uh, his first book was 700 pages long, and, uh, Frank, uh, got back to him and said, "Well, I didn't say you had to write everything." Uh, so my [00:11:51.400 – 00:12:01.400] dad decided instead to spin off what was in his original 700-page book into shorter titles, which many of them ended up being very [00:12:01.400 – 00:12:07.820] long anyway, but, uh, The Oxford Group in Alcoholics Anonymous, uh, was one. [00:12:07.820 – 00:12:17.380] Then he wrote a book about Akron and its starting, the beginnings of AA in Akron, which is called The Akron Genesis of Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:12:17.380 – 00:12:27.440] And these are books which, uh, relate to the topic of AA and the Oxford Group and how and why AA left the [00:12:27.440 – 00:12:28.100] Oxford Group.

[00:12:28.100 – 00:12:38.120] Similarly, my dad wrote a book about Reverend S. Moore S. Jr., who was the chief American lieutenant, [00:12:38.120 – 00:12:41.960] is what one person called him, of the Oxford Group in the United States. [00:12:41.960 – 00:12:47.480] Other people call him the leader of the Oxford Group in the United States. [00:12:47.480 – 00:12:48.200] Dr. [00:12:48.200 – 00:12:55.180] Bookman at that time, when Bill and Bob, uh, were getting involved with it, was based in England. [00:12:55.180 – 00:12:59.520] Uh, and Reverend S. had met, uh, Dr. [00:12:59.520 – 00:13:07.140] Bookman in China in the 1917s and 1990– 1919 timeframe.

[00:13:07.140 – 00:13:10.420] So he was very close with Dr. [00:13:10.420 – 00:13:20.560] Bookman, and he writ what– read what might be called apologies, uh, for the Oxford Group, and so we're gonna talk about that a little [00:13:20.560 – 00:13:20.860] bit. [00:13:20.860 – 00:13:30.860] So my dad ended up writing actually 50, five-zero, books on AA, especially early AA's history. [00:13:30.860 – 00:13:38.340] 45 of them were published, and at least 33 of them are currently available, uh, at Amazon. [00:13:38.340 – 00:13:41.920] Nine are available in digital e-book format. [00:13:41.920 – 00:13:52.780] I'm not sharing all this information to try to sell the books, but what I'm saying to you is that a great deal of the background material and documentation

[00:13:52.780 – 00:13:57.380] for what we're talking about tonight is in my dad's books. [00:13:57.380 – 00:13:59.200] I'm not gonna try to repeat. [00:13:59.200 – 00:14:05.460] For example, his book on Reverend S. S., second edition, is 664 pages long. [00:14:05.460 – 00:14:15.560] And my dad's book called Turning P., which was his tenth book written in 1997, which is an overview history of early AA, [00:14:15.560 – 00:14:18.620] is 776 pages long. [00:14:18.620 – 00:14:20.480] So there's a tremendous amount… [00:14:20.480 – 00:14:24.160] And th- this is not just fluff, and it's not fiction.

[00:14:24.160 – 00:14:29.540] This is heavily documented material that we're talking about. [00:14:29.540 – 00:14:31.340] So I'm drawing on that. [00:14:31.340 – 00:14:33.440] And so where do I come into this picture? [00:14:33.440 – 00:14:42.240] Well, as I said, I was working with my dad just before his law practice crashed and burned at the end of ni- uh, 1985. [00:14:42.240 – 00:14:47.540] I was around when he got into AA in, uh, 1986 in April. [00:14:47.540 – 00:14:52.800] And I was around when John approached my dad. [00:14:52.800 – 00:14:59.600] I was living in San R. in Marin C. while my dad was living in Larkspur in Marin C. in Northern C..

[00:14:59.600 – 00:15:06.240] And so when my dad began his work, I was in the, the computer industry. [00:15:06.240 – 00:15:07.260] I was helping him. [00:15:07.260 – 00:15:13.920] I was involved with the design of some of the covers, formatting of the books, sourcing books for him. [00:15:13.920 – 00:15:17.600] So that's a little bit about what I do. [00:15:17.600 – 00:15:20.920] And beginning in 2008… [00:15:20.920 – 00:15:23.670] I think I'll show you this one. [00:15:23.670 – 00:15:26.120] Let me stop the screen share for just a second.

[00:15:26.120 – 00:15:30.500] My dad and I traveled to St. [00:15:30.500 – 00:15:32.670] Johnsbury, Vermont, where Dr. [00:15:32.670 – 00:15:34.580] Bob was born and raised. [00:15:34.580 – 00:15:38.040] Our first trip was October of 2007. [00:15:38.040 – 00:15:43.750] And this book that I'm showing you right now, which is called Dr. [00:15:43.750 – 00:15:45.130] Bob's– Dr. [00:15:45.130 – 00:15:51.079] Bob of Alcoholics Anonymous: His E. Training in the Good B. as a Youngster in Vermont.

[00:15:51.079 – 00:15:53.280] You might recognize that language. [00:15:53.280 – 00:16:03.560] It comes from the co-founders of Alcoholics Anonymous pamphlet, P-53, his ma– last major talk in Detroit, December 1948, [00:16:03.560 – 00:16:03.800] where Dr. [00:16:03.800 – 00:16:08.720] Bob talked about how he had had excellent training in the Good B. as a youngster. [00:16:08.720 – 00:16:15.040] So this is the first book that I co-wrote with my dad down at the bottom here. [00:16:15.040 – 00:16:16.940] I'm not showing on [00:16:17.104 – 00:16:17.654] But it's Dick B.

[00:16:17.654 – 00:16:18.364] and Ken B. [00:16:18.364 – 00:16:23.644] So this is the first book that I co-authored with my dad, Dr. [00:16:23.644 – 00:16:25.604] Bob of Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:16:25.604 – 00:16:31.564] And that's a picture, by the way, of the North C. Church in St. [00:16:31.564 – 00:16:32.404] Johnsbury. [00:16:32.404 – 00:16:35.984] And this picture is of St. [00:16:35.984 – 00:16:37.724] Johnsbury A., where Dr.

[00:16:37.724 – 00:16:46.304] Bob, uh, completed the equivalent of high school from September of 1894 to June of 1898. [00:16:46.304 – 00:16:56.494] So I just mention that because all of the books that my dad wrote after that, I was the co-author of, not just formatting, editing, and sourcing, but actually [00:16:56.494 – 00:16:57.304] co-authoring. [00:16:57.304 – 00:17:00.824] We did a bunch of audios together, and we did a number of videos. [00:17:00.824 – 00:17:10.964] So that's part of the reason why I call myself a supportive son, but it was mostly because I love my dad dearly, and I was very thankful for him, [00:17:10.964 – 00:17:15.884] and I was very thankful to AA, which is part of the reason why I'm here now. [00:17:15.884 – 00:17:20.064] And that is that AA saved my dad's life.

[00:17:20.064 – 00:17:30.884] And he was, uh, falling down on the floor in the K., out cold from the consequences [00:17:30.884 – 00:17:33.844] of prescription sleeping pill alcoholism and alcoholism. [00:17:33.844 – 00:17:39.404] And I don't know how close to death he was, but he was in very bad shape. [00:17:39.404 – 00:17:49.424] And when he s- within seven days of his coming into, uh, AA on April 21st, 1986, he had three [00:17:49.424 – 00:17:51.304] grand mal se- seizures. [00:17:51.304 – 00:17:56.164] He almost bit his tongue in half, and I was at the hospital with him. [00:17:56.164 – 00:18:06.404] He ended up going into a 28-day program right after being in the emergency room at Marin G. Hospital, or at Ross H. in Marin C.,

[00:18:06.404 – 00:18:08.844] and I was there for those things. [00:18:08.844 – 00:18:13.944] And so that's a little bit about why I call myself a supportive son. [00:18:13.944 – 00:18:18.284] And sometimes what I say is I am the wreckage of my dad's past. [00:18:18.284 – 00:18:24.754] So you're looking at wreckage here, and we're, uh, hopefully cleaning some of that up. [00:18:24.754 – 00:18:28.764] So back to the screen here, and, uh, we'll continue on. [00:18:28.764 – 00:18:41.024] So that's a little bit about me and my dad, and if you'd like to know a little bit more about his 25 years of research in early AA, you can go to www.dickbeonrecovery.com. [00:18:41.024 – 00:18:43.164] You can read more about that there.

[00:18:43.164 – 00:18:44.744] So I'm gonna continue on. [00:18:44.744 – 00:18:46.184] All right. [00:18:46.184 – 00:18:53.284] So what are we talking about in this topic of how and why AA left the Oxford Group? [00:18:53.284 – 00:19:03.844] Well, there are a number of AA General S. Conference-approved materials, as well as materials by Bill and Lois [00:19:03.844 – 00:19:06.224] that provide background for this topic. [00:19:06.224 – 00:19:12.004] In other words, I could say in about one sentence why Bill and Lois left the Oxford Group. [00:19:12.004 – 00:19:17.064] Uh, they were really invited to leave the Oxford Group.

[00:19:17.064 – 00:19:20.544] Uh, but, but, uh, uh, that could be said in about one sentence. [00:19:20.544 – 00:19:26.644] And, uh, the situation is a little more complex when we talk about Dr. [00:19:26.644 – 00:19:36.904] Bob and Anne and their departure from the Oxford Group, and when we talk about Clarence A. and his founding of AA's third group in the world [00:19:36.904 – 00:19:44.124] on May 11th, 1939, about a month after the Big Book was first published in April of 1939. [00:19:44.124 – 00:19:52.004] But neither of those events directly im- directly impacted on the Big Book. [00:19:52.004 – 00:19:55.924] Uh, they took place after the Big Book had already been published. [00:19:55.924 – 00:20:06.004] So for our purposes tonight, we may touch on, uh, Bob and Anne and Clarence very, very briefly, but they're not directly relevant

[00:20:06.004 – 00:20:12.884] in that w- in a sense to why, quote, AA, end of quote, left the Oxford Group, which is what I'm talking about. [00:20:12.884 – 00:20:19.344] So when it comes to this topic, w- where do we look for information? [00:20:19.344 – 00:20:29.544] Well, there is n- not much to speak of, uh, in Alcoholics Anonymous first edition [00:20:29.544 – 00:20:33.423] in chapters one through 11, because it wa- it was… [00:20:33.423 – 00:20:43.644] I don't know if calling it being sanitized is exactly the right way to, to characterize it, but the materials about the Oxford Group were [00:20:43.644 – 00:20:45.824] m- made non-explicit. [00:20:45.824 – 00:20:56.064] And if you know something about, uh, how the Big Book was written, which has become a very popular topic, uh, in recent days, uh, you know

[00:20:56.064 – 00:21:06.164] that there was a shifting and there was a de-emphasizing of the Oxford Group by the time Bill, uh, got past writing chapters [00:21:06.164 – 00:21:09.664] one and two beginning in May of 1938. [00:21:09.664 – 00:21:16.864] And so we need to go into the later resources in order to look at that. [00:21:16.864 – 00:21:20.324] So the first one, which… [00:21:20.324 – 00:21:27.944] I don't know what you're seeing, so I'm going to stop the share for just a second. [00:21:27.944 – 00:21:37.704] The first book, which you may be familiar with, i- is the AA General S. Conference appr- approved book, Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age. [00:21:37.704 – 00:21:39.704] And these are…

[00:21:39.704 – 00:21:42.484] This is c- this contains edited transcripts- [00:21:43.168 – 00:21:47.098] Of talks that were given at the 1955 St. [00:21:47.098 – 00:21:48.928] Louis I. Convention. [00:21:48.928 – 00:21:58.408] A lot of it is made up of Bill's three major talks, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and there are other talks in there. [00:21:58.408 – 00:22:02.508] Like for example, there's a presentation by Reverend S. Moore S. Jr. [00:22:02.508 – 00:22:04.728] That's one of the talks that's here. [00:22:04.728 – 00:22:07.028] So there's a lot of material.

[00:22:07.028 – 00:22:12.508] This is the first AA history book, uh, if you want, that we need to talk about. [00:22:12.508 – 00:22:18.508] Uh, 12 Steps and 12 Traditions really doesn't touch on this history, if you will, very much, if at all. [00:22:18.508 – 00:22:21.868] So this is Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age. [00:22:21.868 – 00:22:28.488] And then we get to the second of what we might call AA's history books, which is Dr. [00:22:28.488 – 00:22:30.268] Bob and The Good Old-Timers. [00:22:30.268 – 00:22:34.668] This AA General S. Conference approved book was published in 1980. [00:22:34.668 – 00:22:37.228] So we- we'll talk a little bit about that.

[00:22:37.228 – 00:22:47.328] Because B. and Bob, when they met on Mother's Day, uh, June the 12th, 1935 for the first time, they [00:22:47.328 – 00:22:52.008] were both actively involved with the group, and so there's a good chunk of material in Dr. [00:22:52.008 – 00:22:53.428] Bob and The Good Old-Timers. [00:22:53.428 – 00:23:02.988] And then we get to the third AA history book, if you will, the AA General S. Conference approved book, Pass It On, published in 1984. [00:23:02.988 – 00:23:06.168] Now, why am I showing you these books? [00:23:06.168 – 00:23:16.168] Well, having been a teacher at the college level I know some of the value of what we call visual aids, and [00:23:16.168 – 00:23:24.148] it's great to talk about things and put the sounds out in the air, but it's nice for us to actually see what we're talking about.

[00:23:24.148 – 00:23:33.268] So you'll know tonight that I'm drawing on AA General S. Conference approved literature, all of which is in print. [00:23:33.268 – 00:23:35.928] Maybe all of you already own these. [00:23:35.928 – 00:23:43.168] For many of the people I talk to, they're dust-covered if they do own them, but nonetheless. [00:23:43.168 – 00:23:46.828] And so moving back to the screen here. [00:23:46.828 – 00:23:48.588] All right. [00:23:48.588 – 00:23:53.108] So I also mentioned next to Dr. [00:23:53.108 – 00:24:03.148] Bob and The Good Old-Timers, the AA General S. Conference approved pamphlet called The Co-Founders of Alcoholics Anonymous: Biographical S. and Their

[00:24:03.148 – 00:24:04.928] Last M. Talks. [00:24:04.928 – 00:24:07.488] Uh, one of the two talks is Dr. [00:24:07.488 – 00:24:16.267] Bob's last so-called last major talk in Detroit in December of 1938, and the other is Bill W.'s last major talk. [00:24:16.267 – 00:24:20.828] And they both have very valuable information in them. [00:24:20.828 – 00:24:25.767] I refer to them often, as did my dad, so I wanted to mention that pamphlet. [00:24:25.767 – 00:24:29.248] Uh, I don't have the pamphlet in hand, but I do have… [00:24:29.248 – 00:24:32.428] I guess I gotta stop this for just a second.

[00:24:32.428 – 00:24:35.988] I, I do– I did make a copy. [00:24:35.988 – 00:24:42.928] I mean, I have the pamphlet, but for reference, this is The Co-Founders of Alcoholics Anonymous pamphlet that I'll talk about. [00:24:42.928 – 00:24:46.948] So that's that. [00:24:46.948 – 00:24:48.228] Back to the screen. [00:24:48.228 – 00:24:48.927] Here we go. [00:24:48.927 – 00:24:58.448] So then we have the Grapevine book, The Language of the Heart: Bill W's Grapevine W.. [00:24:58.448 – 00:25:06.168] There are a number of articles that are history-related, uh, that are in The Language of the Heart that we'll draw on.

[00:25:06.168 – 00:25:12.008] And then you have the two, you could call them autobiographies if you want, or memoirs. [00:25:12.008 – 00:25:22.268] You have Bill W's My F. Forty Y., which is a, an edited transcript of the presentation he did in September, of presentations. [00:25:22.268 – 00:25:29.548] It's a series of dictations, uh, and we're s- sta- September of 1954. [00:25:29.548 – 00:25:34.908] And then you have Lois', Lois R., uh, book. [00:25:34.908 – 00:25:44.987] And that book and what's r- involved with it has become more important of late because finally a lot more information has [00:25:44.988 – 00:25:47.988] begin- begun coming out from Lois's diaries. [00:25:47.988 – 00:25:57.988] Now, my dad was given quite a bit of access to the AA General S. Office archives

[00:25:57.988 – 00:26:01.368] in the very early part of nin- the 1990s. [00:26:01.368 – 00:26:03.628] 1991, 1992. [00:26:03.628 – 00:26:13.628] He was able to stay in Frank G.'s apartment, uh, while he was researching the archives in AA, and also, uh, he was [00:26:13.628 – 00:26:23.708] given access, complete access, uh, to Stepping S. in the 1991, 1992, uh, uh, so forth time period. [00:26:23.708 – 00:26:28.348] You may know the name Paul L., who was the archivist at that time. [00:26:28.348 – 00:26:34.128] And my dad was given permission to make photocopies of anything he wanted. [00:26:34.128 – 00:26:42.448] There were two topics he was asked not to write about, so-called Spook R. and the matter of Bill and his LSD.

[00:26:42.448 – 00:26:52.508] Uh, the latter of which doesn't concern me because my focus and my dad's focus has to do mostly with AA up to the time of the publication of [00:26:52.508 – 00:26:58.968] the first edition of The Big Book, and the whole, uh, LSD situation came a number of years after that. [00:26:58.968 – 00:27:08.328] So those are some basic resources put out by AA or by AA's co-founder, uh- [00:27:08.444 – 00:27:09.284] Or his wife. [00:27:09.284 – 00:27:14.863] Uh, and those are some of the things to draw on when we wanna get a starting point. [00:27:14.863 – 00:27:22.544] Uh, as some of you know, and some of you perhaps here also are actively involved with the Facebook group called AA History L.. [00:27:22.544 – 00:27:24.804] I'm very involved with that group.

[00:27:24.804 – 00:27:26.024] I posted that group. [00:27:26.024 – 00:27:33.084] I comment on that group, which I'll hopefully get to do again after I, my, my new ID has been around three months. [00:27:33.084 – 00:27:39.404] Facebook is limiting what I can do at the moment, which is why I don't answer people's comments. [00:27:39.404 – 00:27:41.504] It's not 'cause I don't have something to say. [00:27:41.504 – 00:27:51.764] But, uh, the current admin of that group was pretty concerned about there are problem, there are problems [00:27:51.764 – 00:28:00.184] with AA General S. Conference approved literature when it comes to what is exactly correct historically from a factual point. [00:28:00.184 – 00:28:01.584] And yes, there are.

[00:28:01.584 – 00:28:03.284] I, I'll just pull one out. [00:28:03.284 – 00:28:12.483] I've done a tremendous amount of research about Bill's upbringing in Vermont, Bob's upbringing in Vermont, their families. [00:28:12.483 – 00:28:23.674] And for example, Pass It On talks about how Bill's family moved from East D., Vermont to Rutland, Vermont in 1903. [00:28:23.674 – 00:28:27.024] Well, that's not factually correct. [00:28:27.024 – 00:28:37.204] What is factually correct is there are what you might call rumors that were reported in the newspapers about A- April [00:28:37.204 – 00:28:47.284] of 1903 that indicated that it was rumored that Gilman B.'s witness, W., uh, was going to get a job as the general superintendent [00:28:47.284 – 00:28:51.904] of a marble factory, which ended up being the Rutland F. Marble C..

[00:28:51.904 – 00:28:56.324] Well, that didn't happen until a year later. [00:28:56.324 – 00:29:06.444] So a year later in the newspapers in April, there's a formal statement that Gilman B.'s witness, Wi- W., had been given the position of general [00:29:06.444 – 00:29:07.404] superintendent. [00:29:07.404 – 00:29:17.844] And then there are also articles showing that the family moved in the May/June time period to Rutland, to Chestnut [00:29:17.844 – 00:29:19.744] Street, uh, 42 Chestnut. [00:29:19.744 – 00:29:29.804] And so that's an example of where there was a good deal of research done that went into the AA General S. Conference approved books, [00:29:29.804 – 00:29:29.904] Dr.

[00:29:29.904 – 00:29:35.544] Bob and the Good O.-Timers, and Pass It On, for example, but there's new information. [00:29:35.544 – 00:29:45.144] And that's also true in the timeframe from October 13th, 1937 to the, uh, when they had the, uh, meeting. [00:29:45.144 – 00:29:56.004] Uh, Bill and Bob and Anne had the meeting, and there were others present at 855 Ardmore A., where they decided that a book should be written, and up through the publication [00:29:56.004 – 00:29:59.784] of The Big Book, uh, in April 1939. [00:29:59.784 – 00:30:09.984] So that's one of the things that my dad and I, since my dad passed away also, uh, have written about and spoken about and done videos about, and that is [00:30:09.984 – 00:30:13.344] some of the fine-tuning and updating of certain facts. [00:30:13.344 – 00:30:20.624] But it's not like the books are 50% wrong or 75% wrong or 25% wrong.

[00:30:20.624 – 00:30:21.624] It's not like that. [00:30:21.624 – 00:30:27.624] They were written, particularly Pass It On, had three different writers involved with it. [00:30:27.624 – 00:30:27.964] Mel B. [00:30:27.964 – 00:30:31.724] was the second of the three, who was a good friend of my dad's. [00:30:31.724 – 00:30:39.804] And so there's a lot of good writing and good documentation in those books, but there are some things that need to be updated. [00:30:39.804 – 00:30:43.024] Well, where would we find that updating and background? [00:30:43.024 – 00:30:46.744] Well, that's where we go to some of the books that I mentioned.

[00:30:46.744 – 00:30:57.044] For example, my dad's book, The Oxford Group and Alcoholics Anonymous: A Design for Living that Works; New L. on Alcoholism; God, Sam S., and AA [00:30:57.044 – 00:31:05.344] about Reverend S. S., to whom Bill attributed the spiritual substance of 10 of AA's 12 steps. [00:31:05.344 – 00:31:06.064] Steps… [00:31:06.064 – 00:31:08.224] Uh, that is steps 2 through 11. [00:31:08.224 – 00:31:17.024] Turning P., I mentioned a history of early AA's spiritual roots and successes in the Akron genesis of Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:31:17.024 – 00:31:27.283] And you say, "Well, what, what it…" I- I'm talking about almost 2,000 pages of written materials just in those four books. [00:31:27.283 – 00:31:34.894] Just in those four books that you see listed there by my dad, there are about 2,000 pages total.

[00:31:34.894 – 00:31:40.964] It's a tremendous amount of material, and those are just four of his 45 published titles. [00:31:40.964 – 00:31:42.524] Okay, moving on. [00:31:42.524 – 00:31:45.784] So that leads us to tonight. [00:31:45.784 – 00:31:49.604] You were saying, "Are we ever gonna get to the topic, Ken?" Well, yes, we are. [00:31:49.604 – 00:31:56.464] And some of that's very important background because I'm not interested in giving you a bunch of opinions. [00:31:56.464 – 00:32:04.264] I'm interested in showing you, if you don't already know, some of the places that you can go to learn more. [00:32:04.264 – 00:32:14.344] And that includes both AA General S. Conference approved literature and AA Grapevine information and also non-AA materials.

[00:32:14.344 – 00:32:15.144] I mentioned it. [00:32:15.144 – 00:32:20.704] Uh, if you have books like Dale M.'s S.: The Little Doctor W. Loved D.. [00:32:20.704 – 00:32:22.444] Excellent book. [00:32:22.444 – 00:32:26.444] And so where do we learn about that? [00:32:26.444 – 00:32:27.764] Well, I've talked about that. [00:32:27.764 – 00:32:34.014] And so where I wanted to start tonight was the name of the group in which Bill W- [00:32:34.117 – 00:32:34.448] you and Dr.

[00:32:34.448 – 00:32:36.168] Bob were involved. [00:32:36.168 – 00:32:39.298] And so where I wanna start, I wanna do two things. [00:32:39.298 – 00:32:41.508] First of all, I wanna take you… [00:32:41.508 – 00:32:45.148] Let me just stop the screen share for a moment. [00:32:45.148 – 00:32:45.388] Yeah. [00:32:45.388 – 00:32:51.828] I wanna take you back into the AA General S. Conference approved book, Pass It On. [00:32:51.828 – 00:33:02.028] And I wanna go to page 130, and I'd like for you to see what AA wrote about this group that Bill and Bob

[00:33:02.028 – 00:33:03.008] were involved with. [00:33:03.008 – 00:33:13.388] So this is the top of page 130, and this is what it says, quote, "In the early days of its existence, the movement was called [00:33:13.388 – 00:33:19.928] The First Century C. Fellowship." The First Century C. Fellowship. [00:33:19.928 – 00:33:25.968] Now, this is an example where AA almost got it right . [00:33:25.968 – 00:33:29.368] They got four of the five words in the name correct. [00:33:29.368 – 00:33:32.528] Now, why do I say they didn't quite get it right? [00:33:32.528 – 00:33:39.458] Well, it's because if you go to the definitive biography of Lutheran minister Dr.

[00:33:39.458 – 00:33:46.968] Frank N. Dan- Da- Nathan D. Bookman, ND Bookman. [00:33:46.968 – 00:33:57.148] When you go to Frank ND Bookman's definitive biography by Garth, G-A-R-T-H, Lean, L-E-A-N, you'll [00:33:57.148 – 00:34:03.728] find that there's a very documented explanation of this group and its founding. [00:34:03.728 – 00:34:08.068] And in that explanation, you'll find that Dr. [00:34:08.068 – 00:34:18.328] Bookman and several of his friends founded a group in the autumn of 1922, not 1908, not 1921, [00:34:18.328 – 00:34:26.548] the au- autumn of 1922, and the name of the group they founded was A First C. Christian F.. [00:34:26.548 – 00:34:31.668] And the purpose of the group, uh, they had two basic purposes.

[00:34:31.668 – 00:34:32.608] And how do we know this? [00:34:32.608 – 00:34:33.358] Because Dr. [00:34:33.358 – 00:34:43.368] Bookman wrote a letter in 1922 to someone who was interested, and he talked about what the purposes of the group were, and one of [00:34:43.368 – 00:34:45.528] them was to get away… [00:34:45.528 – 00:34:56.908] Uh, I don't remember the exact quote, and I don't have it printed out for you where I'd quote it for you, but it is to get away from the committee-ized church, and [00:34:56.908 – 00:35:06.188] also it was to take folks back to the first-century Christianity of the apostles. [00:35:06.188 – 00:35:16.428] And in, on page 130 of Pass It On, that's part of the re- It's not The First Century C. Fellowship, as if there were only

[00:35:16.428 – 00:35:21.428] one, but it was A First C. Christian F., and that's what Dr. [00:35:21.428 – 00:35:23.248] Bookman was trying to accomplish. [00:35:23.248 – 00:35:30.888] Then there's a parenthesis on page 130, and it says this: "In the late 1930s, Dr. [00:35:30.888 – 00:35:41.308] Bob, co-founder of AA, and the other Akron, Ohio members continued to refer to it that way." Well, when is the late 1930s? [00:35:41.308 – 00:35:45.468] Well, that's when the Big Book was published, April 1939. [00:35:45.468 – 00:35:46.438] And Dr. [00:35:46.438 – 00:35:48.188] Bob did…

[00:35:48.188 – 00:35:58.608] and the AAs in Akron did not leave what they were still calling a First C. Christian F., having its Wednesday night meetings at [00:35:58.608 – 00:35:58.688] T. [00:35:58.688 – 00:36:01.528] Henry and Clarice W.' home. [00:36:01.528 – 00:36:08.168] They did not leave those meetings until mid-November, approximately, of 1939. [00:36:08.168 – 00:36:15.788] And then about six weeks later or so, in January of 1940, they ended up at King S.. [00:36:15.788 – 00:36:21.888] And the King S. group, uh, was the iteration of Akron number… [00:36:21.888 – 00:36:24.188] the Akron number one group founded…

[00:36:24.188 – 00:36:34.648] It's considered founded on July 4th, 1935, when AA number three, Akron attorney Bill D., left [00:36:34.648 – 00:36:38.128] Akron C. Hospital and never drank again. [00:36:38.128 – 00:36:41.968] That's considered to be the founding of Akron number one group. [00:36:41.968 – 00:36:52.627] So at the time, throughout this time from when Bill and Bob met, they were introduced by Henrietta Bu- Buckler S. at the Seiberling G.- [00:36:52.627 – 00:36:56.928] Gate L. on Mother's Day, May the 12th, 1935. [00:36:56.928 – 00:37:02.428] From the time that they were introduced up until when Bob and the AAs left T. [00:37:02.428 – 00:37:11.188] Henry and Clarice W.' meeting, which continued by the way, they were referring to it as a First C. Christian F..

[00:37:11.188 – 00:37:13.828] Now, that was not so much… [00:37:13.828 – 00:37:23.998] In B.'s situation, which is different, which is a lot of what we're focused on tonight, Bill's situation was somewhat different, a, a lot different you might say, from [00:37:23.998 – 00:37:29.408] Bob and Anne's situation and those of the Akron AAs, and we'll talk about that as well. [00:37:29.408 – 00:37:39.448] So it says after the parenthesis, "It became the Oxford Group in 1928." Well, that's not completely correct [00:37:39.448 – 00:37:39.708] either. [00:37:39.708 – 00:37:43.468] Uh, if you go to Garth L.'s book, it… [00:37:43.468 – 00:37:45.618] and Garth's, uh, biography of Dr.

[00:37:45.618 – 00:37:46.208] w- Dr. [00:37:46.208 – 00:37:51.268] Bookman had two titles, uh, because it was published in, uh, England. [00:37:51.268 – 00:37:53.468] David, that's, uh, one for you. [00:37:53.468 – 00:37:55.728] And also in America. [00:37:55.728 – 00:37:59.408] So you have one title is Frank B. [00:37:59.792 – 00:38:04.972] A Life, and the other title is On the Tail of a Comet. [00:38:04.972 – 00:38:11.432] And one of these days I'm gonna discipline myself and, and remember which, which was, went where.

[00:38:11.432 – 00:38:13.992] One went with London, the other went with New York. [00:38:13.992 – 00:38:16.172] Uh, but at any rate, those are the titles. [00:38:16.172 – 00:38:19.432] Uh, Frank B.: A Life and On the Tail of a Comet. [00:38:19.432 – 00:38:25.252] And Darlene talks about how the name The Oxford Group came about. [00:38:25.252 – 00:38:28.032] It was a nickname. [00:38:28.032 – 00:38:30.032] It was a catchphrase. [00:38:30.032 – 00:38:39.812] It was a label that was affixed to a group of six men who were traveling on their long vacation by train.

[00:38:39.812 – 00:38:41.472] They were from Oxford, England. [00:38:41.472 – 00:38:52.072] They were traveling by train across South A., and there was a writer who was known for coming up with catchphrases and nicknames, [00:38:52.072 – 00:38:53.272] uh, with the… [00:38:53.272 – 00:39:03.012] In P., South A., in the main paper there, and he's the one who came up with the label for that group of six people, The Oxford Group. [00:39:03.012 – 00:39:04.591] And Dr. [00:39:04.591 – 00:39:07.672] B. was based in Oxford at that time. [00:39:07.672 – 00:39:09.072] He liked the cachet.

[00:39:09.072 – 00:39:12.892] He liked the connotation of that term, and so they adopted it. [00:39:12.892 – 00:39:24.132] And my reading o- of sources and materials is that the, the phrase The Oxford Group, or the name, if you will, was more popular [00:39:24.132 – 00:39:29.612] in the UK and Europe than it was in America. [00:39:29.612 – 00:39:33.432] In A., it doesn't mean that The Oxford Group wasn't used in America. [00:39:33.432 – 00:39:33.932] It was. [00:39:33.932 – 00:39:41.832] But A First C. Christian F. was the name that was more popular in America. [00:39:41.832 – 00:39:51.912] As a matter of fact, Reverend S. Moore S., one of his apologies for, so to speak, uh, the group wa- used the name A First

[00:39:51.912 – 00:39:57.052] Century C. Fellowship in the title, and so that was a name. [00:39:57.052 – 00:40:05.312] And what my dad found in his research when he went down to Akron in the early 1990s, he, he and I went there three times together. [00:40:05.312 – 00:40:07.622] The last time was 2012. [00:40:07.622 – 00:40:17.992] But when my dad was doing his research and talking with people like James N., James D. Newton, who wrote the book Un- Uncommon F., [00:40:17.992 – 00:40:28.632] who introduced Russell B. Firestone to Reverend S. Moore S. in conjunction with the Episcopal B. Conference in 1931, [00:40:28.632 – 00:40:38.932] when s- Reverend S. S. brought Bud F. into a, a train compartment and led him to Christ, and at that time, Bud stopped drinking [00:40:38.932 – 00:40:40.032] for several years.

[00:40:40.032 – 00:40:50.032] And, uh, Harvey F. Sr., Bud's dad, was so thankful that that interaction with Reverend S. Moore [00:40:50.032 – 00:40:58.612] S. on the train had led to Bud's stopping drinking, 'cause he had a very serious problem, that it was Harvey F. Sr. [00:40:58.612 – 00:41:00.552] who invited Dr. [00:41:00.552 – 00:41:10.752] B. and 29 associates to come to Akron to do a series of meetings in January, from the 19th to the 22nd [00:41:10.752 – 00:41:14.821] of January, uh, in Akron, Ohio, 1933. [00:41:14.821 – 00:41:24.352] And, uh, Anne S., Henrietta S., Delphine W. all attended at least one of those meetings. [00:41:24.352 – 00:41:29.992] And then very soon thereafter, if not at that meeting, very shortly after that, Dr.

[00:41:29.992 – 00:41:31.472] Bob got involved. [00:41:31.472 – 00:41:33.571] They were going to the Thursday night meetings. [00:41:33.571 – 00:41:43.572] And then, uh, in mid, early to mid-1935, uh, Henrietta S. had [00:41:43.572 – 00:41:47.272] a meeting that h- she called with the permission and agreement of T. [00:41:47.272 – 00:41:50.252] Henry and Florence W. at the Williams home. [00:41:50.252 – 00:41:51.352] That's where Dr. [00:41:51.352 – 00:41:56.152] Bob, uh, admitted that he was a silent or secret drinking, drinker.

[00:41:56.152 – 00:42:04.392] They prayed for him, and very shortly thereafter, that was the wa- that was the launching of the Wednesday night Oxford Group meetings at T. [00:42:04.392 – 00:42:06.152] Henry and Florence W.' house. [00:42:06.152 – 00:42:16.432] So with that background, I'm telling you that because what my dad found in Akron was that there were invitations to those Oxford [00:42:16.432 – 00:42:20.152] Group meetings that had both names on them. [00:42:20.152 – 00:42:28.192] They had both A First C. Christian F. and The Oxford Group names on the same invitation. [00:42:28.192 – 00:42:32.472] The wor- the, the group's names were used side by side. [00:42:32.472 – 00:42:42.472] And so we're very familiar with the name The Oxford Group, but actually both names were being used while Bill and Bob were involved with the groups, and particularly

[00:42:42.472 – 00:42:43.792] in Akron. [00:42:43.792 – 00:42:48.252] So that's what it so- so it wasn't, it didn't become The Oxford Group. [00:42:48.252 – 00:42:58.392] It, the name The Oxford Group was adopted in the UK in 1928, [00:42:58.392 – 00:43:01.532] and it was used in America at that time. [00:43:01.532 – 00:43:12.152] But it wasn't then until 1938 when the, the name of the organization was changed to Moral Re-Armament, MRA, [00:43:12.152 – 00:43:18.852] and then it eventually became Initiatives of Change, which is very different from what it was. [00:43:18.852 – 00:43:25.322] So that's a little bit about that from the AA General S. Conference appr- approved book passage

[00:43:25.456 – 00:43:25.736] Gone. [00:43:25.736 – 00:43:31.196] But let me get back to the screen here, and we will continue. [00:43:31.196 – 00:43:38.296] So, a little bit about Reverend F. ND Bookman. [00:43:38.296 – 00:43:39.796] He was a Lutheran minister. [00:43:39.796 – 00:43:45.656] I don't wanna go into too many fine points about him, but he was a tremendous evangelist. [00:43:45.656 – 00:43:50.456] He was very actively involved with the Young M.'s Christian A.. [00:43:50.456 – 00:43:59.306] He went to, uh, the Orient, uh, to China, India, elsewhere, uh, as a major evangelist.

[00:43:59.306 – 00:44:01.276] He did a tremendous amount of work there. [00:44:01.276 – 00:44:08.656] And that's in China where he met Reverend S. Moore S. Jr., and they became very, very close. [00:44:08.656 – 00:44:10.876] And so Dr. [00:44:10.876 – 00:44:12.836] Bookman then was working. [00:44:12.836 – 00:44:16.856] He did work at Princeton, which is where Reverend S. Moore S. Jr. [00:44:16.856 – 00:44:18.236] had graduated from. [00:44:18.236 – 00:44:23.336] And Samuel Moore S. Jr., uh, actually…

[00:44:23.336 – 00:44:25.536] Let's see, can I come up with this quickly? [00:44:25.536 – 00:44:27.616] Uh, I better not go there. [00:44:27.616 – 00:44:31.436] But anyway, so here you have Dr. [00:44:31.436 – 00:44:36.216] Bookman, who there was kind of a scandal of sorts, uh, with Dr. [00:44:36.216 – 00:44:45.316] Bookman and the approach that they were taking with confessions with young college students, and whether that was, uh, appropriate or acceptable. [00:44:45.316 – 00:44:51.696] He ended up leaving the, the United States as his base of operations, going to Oxford. [00:44:51.696 – 00:44:54.416] Excuse me.

[00:44:54.416 – 00:45:02.776] And so then you have Reverend S. Moore S., who became the rector at Calvary E. Church. [00:45:02.776 – 00:45:05.256] He was an Episcopal priest, whereas Dr. [00:45:05.256 – 00:45:07.216] Bookman was a Lutheran minister. [00:45:07.216 – 00:45:17.016] Samuel M. S. became the rector of the Calvary P. Episcopal C. in Manhattan. [00:45:17.016 – 00:45:27.056] And in 1926, uh, with, uh, uh, Hadley, he opened, sort of reopened if you will, but [00:45:27.056 – 00:45:31.036] he opened Calvary M. in 1926. [00:45:31.036 – 00:45:40.516] And it f- where that was located at 346 East 23rd Street in Manhattan, and there again, pass it on.

[00:45:40.516 – 00:45:42.436] Ty- is it a typo? [00:45:42.436 – 00:45:43.196] I don't know. [00:45:43.196 – 00:45:45.596] But it says 246. [00:45:45.596 – 00:45:49.296] Well, it wasn't 246, it was 346. [00:45:49.296 – 00:45:57.116] Calvary E. Church owned a group of five brownstone five-story homes. [00:45:57.116 – 00:46:02.496] They were at very, uh, 144 points, and they were basically right up against each other. [00:46:02.496 – 00:46:07.836] And Calvary Episcopal C. had them donated to them or purchased to them.

[00:46:07.836 – 00:46:11.356] And so they end up– they had a whole block of… [00:46:11.356 – 00:46:21.456] By, by block, I mean a group of five houses or buildings that were up against each other, basically, starting at 338, then 340, [00:46:21.456 – 00:46:24.256] 342, 344, and 346. [00:46:24.256 – 00:46:36.036] That whole block of– uh, that grouping, I should call it, of buildings, uh, was owned by Calvary E. Church, and it formerly, [00:46:36.036 – 00:46:44.136] one of the, the activities of the church that was there was called Galilee M., and it ended up getting shut down. [00:46:44.136 – 00:46:54.136] And then doctor, uh, well, he wasn't doctor yet, but Reverend S. Moore S. Jr., uh, together, together with Hadley, uh, opened the place [00:46:54.136 – 00:46:56.216] up and called it Calvary M..

[00:46:56.216 – 00:47:06.476] And you know from your history that Calvary M. factors in because that's where Ebby was put up for a period of time. [00:47:06.476 – 00:47:16.476] And that's also where Bill W. went to see Ebby about December 8th, 1934, where Bill went up to the [00:47:16.476 – 00:47:24.016] rail, uh, at– for the altar call, uh, when he'd heard about Jesus S. and heard the teaching of the Bible and the hymns. [00:47:24.016 – 00:47:33.356] And he, there are a number of eyewitnesses, interestingly, to what happened there, that he gave his life to Christ. [00:47:33.356 – 00:47:34.636] Uh, Mrs. [00:47:34.636 – 00:47:45.036] S., uh, Reverend S.'s son, uh, it's not son, but wife, uh, communicated with my dad shortly before he died that she was present [00:47:45.036 – 00:47:55.036] when Bill made his confession of Jesus as Lord at Calvary M., and also, uh, uh, the author of

[00:47:55.036 – 00:47:56.396] The Breeze of the Spirit. [00:47:56.396 – 00:48:02.276] I have to keep remembering his name, and I'll probably get corrected for that here tonight, which is fine. [00:48:02.276 – 00:48:12.936] But, uh, the wife of that man, uh, provided a, a letter written by the man to my dad in which he discussed, [00:48:12.936 – 00:48:20.856] he may have also been present that night, but he discussed how Bill had launched out as a follower of Jesus C.. [00:48:20.856 – 00:48:23.016] So the, the Calvary M. is very important. [00:48:23.016 – 00:48:33.016] It was about four blocks away from the Calvary P. Episcopal C., and it was overseen by Reverend S. Moore S. Jr., and they were [00:48:33.016 – 00:48:33.416] active.

[00:48:33.416 – 00:48:36.716] It was kind of like an Oxford Group laboratory, really. [00:48:36.716 – 00:48:41.036] There were a lot– It was not your standard gospel rescue mission. [00:48:41.036 – 00:48:47.736] I mean, it had that functioning, but there was a lot of Oxford Group, a first-century Christian fellowship emphasis there. [00:48:47.736 – 00:48:50.096] So, you have Dr. [00:48:50.096 – 00:48:50.536] Bookman [00:48:51.452 – 00:48:55.152] In E., although he was a world traveler based in Oxford. [00:48:55.152 – 00:49:05.152] You have Reverend S. Moore S. Jr., uh, located at Calvary E. Church until early 1952 when he was invited

[00:49:05.152 – 00:49:12.132] to be the re- rector of Calvary E. Church in Pittsburgh where he, uh, finished out his ministry. [00:49:12.132 – 00:49:13.752] He died in 1963. [00:49:13.752 – 00:49:15.752] And what else? [00:49:15.752 – 00:49:19.212] You have Zebra G. and Shep C.. [00:49:19.212 – 00:49:29.232] Zebra and Shep, who were drinking buddies of Ebby's, approaching him, uh, over the summer of 1934 before he met Bill, and then he [00:49:29.232 – 00:49:30.792] gets introduced to Roland H. [00:49:30.792 – 00:49:33.312] in court, turned over to Roland H.

[00:49:33.312 – 00:49:37.512] by the judge, Zebra G.'s dad, Judge C. G. [00:49:37.512 – 00:49:43.872] And then they bring Ebby down to New York, and he gets ended… [00:49:43.872 – 00:49:46.052] ends up getting placed in Calvary M.. [00:49:46.052 – 00:49:49.612] He was one of the brotherhood group of 12 people. [00:49:49.612 – 00:49:56.692] And he made his personal surrender there at Calvary M. November 1st, 1934. [00:49:56.692 – 00:49:57.572] That's Mel B. [00:49:57.572 – 00:49:59.292] in his book, Ebby talks about that.

[00:49:59.292 – 00:50:03.952] So there's a lot of background of people, not just Dr. [00:50:03.952 – 00:50:14.012] Bookman, not just, uh, Reverend S., but Zebra, Shep, Roland, and, uh, I can't see that Zebra came down to New York [00:50:14.012 – 00:50:18.452] much of at all after that, but Shep and Roland were involved. [00:50:18.452 – 00:50:27.912] Uh, Roland was actively involved with Calvary E. Church, and Shep and Roland were associated with Bill and Ebby, uh, and so forth. [00:50:27.912 – 00:50:37.972] You have Ebby becoming, uh, uh, baptized at Calvary E. Church, uh, and you have, uh, uh, Taylor F. [00:50:37.972 – 00:50:48.272] was there as a godfather, and, uh, Bill and Lois were also there as godparents to, uh, the chemistry professor, uh, Freddie [00:50:48.272 – 00:50:50.212] Breithaupt, Professor B..

[00:50:50.212 – 00:50:57.932] And Lois talks about how she gave thereby a- her Bible to Ebby as part of that ceremony. [00:50:57.932 – 00:51:05.792] So there were a lot of things going on, and the idea that there was no involvement of the Bible or Christianity is just not true. [00:51:05.792 – 00:51:06.352] It's not… [00:51:06.352 – 00:51:08.142] It, it was there all along. [00:51:08.142 – 00:51:16.172] Ro- uh, Ebby talks about how both Roland and either Shep or Zebra, I forget which, uh, which Shep, they… [00:51:16.172 – 00:51:20.732] what they talked with about Ebby reminded him of the Christianity in Ebby's youth. [00:51:20.732 – 00:51:23.492] So they get involved.

[00:51:23.492 – 00:51:24.352] What happens? [00:51:24.352 – 00:51:34.452] Ebby comes to Bill's, 182 Clinton S., late November 1935, 4, and, uh, shares [00:51:34.452 – 00:51:35.632] the message with Bill. [00:51:35.632 – 00:51:45.642] And then Bill hears one account in Pass It On, uh, talks about how eyewitness report, written eyewitness [00:51:45.642 – 00:51:55.732] report was that Eb- that Bill said that he had seen Ebby in the pulpit at Calvary E. Church the night before he came down [00:51:55.732 – 00:51:59.352] to Calvary M., hearing Ebby give his testimony there. [00:51:59.352 – 00:52:07.662] And that's what tipped the scales for Bill to actually come down and find out what Ebby had found.

[00:52:07.662 – 00:52:08.572] Where did he go? [00:52:08.572 – 00:52:09.872] He went to where Ebby was. [00:52:09.872 – 00:52:10.121] He was… [00:52:10.121 – 00:52:11.822] Ebby was living at Calvary M.. [00:52:11.822 – 00:52:21.852] So B. comes down and goes to the altar, and three days later he shows up at [00:52:21.852 – 00:52:22.792] T. Hospital. [00:52:22.792 – 00:52:25.012] And what does he say to Dr.

[00:52:25.012 – 00:52:25.651] S.? [00:52:25.651 – 00:52:30.052] He sa- says, "I've found something." There's some interesting… [00:52:30.052 – 00:52:37.392] If you read all the accounts about "I've found something," it's very intriguing about what he's talking about. [00:52:37.392 – 00:52:47.492] So he goes to T. Hospital, has his religious experience, his white light experience about December 14th, 1934, and then he [00:52:47.492 – 00:52:49.192] leaves Calvary E…. [00:52:49.192 – 00:52:49.712] Excuse me. [00:52:49.712 – 00:53:00.672] He leaves T. Hospital, and as a result of that experience that he had at T. Hospital, on page 121

[00:53:00.672 – 00:53:04.172] of Pass It On, this is the… [00:53:04.172 – 00:53:07.312] Let me stop the screen for a second. [00:53:07.312 – 00:53:09.372] Stop the share. [00:53:09.372 – 00:53:09.772] Okay. [00:53:09.772 – 00:53:19.052] In P. It On, this is what it says right after Bill had his white light religious experience. [00:53:19.052 – 00:53:26.792] "Bill W. had just had his 39th birthday." This is the last paragraph on page 121 of Pass It On. [00:53:26.792 – 00:53:29.412] "And he still had half his life ahead of him.

[00:53:29.412 – 00:53:37.312] He always said that after that experience, he never again doubted the existence of God. [00:53:37.312 – 00:53:47.372] He never took a drink again." So there were two things, not one, that happened as a result of Bill's white light experience. [00:53:47.372 – 00:53:57.372] One was he never drank again, but the other, which is mentioned first there, is that he never again doubted the existence of God. [00:53:57.372 – 00:54:07.412] And so when we get into the topic of AAs leaving the Oxford Group, and in particular the matter of Bill and Lois' leaving the Oxford [00:54:07.412 – 00:54:13.472] Group, we have to talk about what did Bill leave and what didn't he leave? [00:54:13.472 – 00:54:16.622] Pass It On says that- [00:54:16.876 – 00:54:20.196] Bill never again doubted the existence of God.

[00:54:20.196 – 00:54:26.796] And if you know something about Bill's story, you'll know that there are a couple of descriptions. [00:54:26.796 – 00:54:36.816] You'll see the, the phrase "a conservative atheist" associated with Bill, and you'll also hear language describing him as an out- his [00:54:36.816 – 00:54:47.096] describing himself as not an atheist, meaning an agnostic, that he only went so far, and he talks about that in his personal story. [00:54:47.096 – 00:54:51.916] When it came to a, an, a personal God, he had a problem with that. [00:54:51.916 – 00:54:58.336] There's a lot of background that I don't have time to go into, because I'm getting near the end of my presentation. [00:54:58.336 – 00:55:08.516] And what I want to say to you is that if you had the impression that, for example, Bill W. told the whole story when in his interview [00:55:08.516 – 00:55:08.816] with T.

[00:55:08.816 – 00:55:15.856] Henry and Clarace W., he said that he had not read the bi- he had not gotten into the Bible up to that time. [00:55:15.856 – 00:55:18.396] He had not read the Bible up to that time. [00:55:18.396 – 00:55:21.356] That is not true. [00:55:21.356 – 00:55:23.776] Not true. [00:55:23.776 – 00:55:25.426] Why do I say that? [00:55:25.426 – 00:55:36.056] Well, in addition to the fact that he was awarded a 1901 New T., uh, in January of 1907 [00:55:36.056 – 00:55:46.256] by his pastor for perfect attendance at Sunday school in the fourth quarter of 1906,

[00:55:46.256 – 00:55:56.316] getting a Bible there, he was hearing the Bible every weekday for four years at [00:55:56.316 – 00:55:59.636] Burr and Burton S. as a part of daily chapel. [00:55:59.636 – 00:56:09.656] And more importantly, in some ways, what a lot of folks don't know is that not only did Bill W. say in his so-called autobiography, [00:56:09.656 – 00:56:14.976] My F. 40 Years, that somehow I was made president of the YMCA. [00:56:14.976 – 00:56:25.056] That statement is also corroborated in Bill To- uh, uh, Robert T.'s bi- first, the first biography of Bill W., Bill W., that Bill had [00:56:25.056 – 00:56:31.176] been the president of the Young M.'s Christian A. at Burr and Burton S., but there's more to it. [00:56:31.176 – 00:56:40.716] The Young Men's Christian A. at Burr and Burton S. was founded on October 29th, 1909.

[00:56:40.716 – 00:56:50.736] That is approximately one and a half months after Bill W. started as a freshman in mid-September of 1909 at Burr [00:56:50.736 – 00:56:51.936] and Burton S.. [00:56:51.936 – 00:57:02.356] And in the Vermont A.'s Notes, which is the official publication of the Vermont Y. Men's Christian A., there is a listing [00:57:02.356 – 00:57:12.616] of the officers and committees and committee members at the very first meeting of the Young M.'s Christian A. [00:57:12.616 – 00:57:15.096] on October the 29th, 1909. [00:57:15.096 – 00:57:16.916] And William G. [00:57:16.916 – 00:57:26.076] W. is listed in the publication as a member of the Bible S. Committee.

[00:57:26.076 – 00:57:36.116] And Professor Brooks, who was the principal of the school, was the one [00:57:36.116 – 00:57:41.816] who led the Bible meetings every week that they were involved with. [00:57:41.816 – 00:57:52.196] In addition to Bill's having been the president of the Young M.'s Christian A. while he was going with his girlfriend, Bertha D. Bamford, [00:57:52.196 – 00:58:02.316] who was the president of the Young W.'s Christian A. at Burr and Burton S., and there's more that I won't go into, the point is Bill was familiar [00:58:02.316 – 00:58:03.076] with the Bible. [00:58:03.076 – 00:58:09.736] Where did he write the four existing pledges to Lois that he was going to stop drinking? [00:58:09.736 – 00:58:17.896] They're written in their family Bible, which Lois said was the most holy place that Bill knew in the house.

[00:58:17.896 – 00:58:22.776] Bill was familiar with the Bible, and Dr. [00:58:22.776 – 00:58:26.856] Bob was very familiar with the Bible, but that's another, for another day. [00:58:26.856 – 00:58:29.936] Okay, so what do we have? [00:58:29.936 – 00:58:32.406] Well, what we have is we have Dr. [00:58:32.406 – 00:58:42.836] Bob and Anne actively involved with the First C. Christian F. in Akron, going to the Wednesday night meetings, which [00:58:42.836 – 00:58:52.896] Bill attended with Bob and Anne while he was living at the Smith's home at 855 Ardmore A. from about June the 1st, [00:58:52.896 – 00:59:02.996] 1935 to approximately up to August 25th or 26th when he jumped on the plane, train to go back to 182 Clinton

[00:59:02.996 – 00:59:05.696] Street in New- uh, Brooklyn, New York. [00:59:05.696 – 00:59:10.516] So they're in the Bible for three months approximately, then Bill takes off. [00:59:10.516 – 00:59:13.306] Bill's actively involved with the October meeting. [00:59:13.306 – 00:59:17.536] And I, I would like to read with you… [00:59:17.536 – 00:59:26.426] Excuse me just one second. [00:59:26.426 – 00:59:32.756] I want to stop the, uh, uh, screen share for a moment to show you something. [00:59:32.756 – 00:59:33.776] Let's see here.

[00:59:33.776 – 00:59:37.205] Sorry about that. [00:59:37.205 – 00:59:38.636] Still learning. [00:59:38.636 – 00:59:39.836] Okay. [00:59:42.500 – 00:59:42.920] There we go. [00:59:42.920 – 00:59:52.980] Okay, what I'm holding up for you right now is a copy of an article from the AA Grapevine, part of [00:59:52.980 – 00:59:53.120] it. [00:59:53.120 – 01:00:03.500] The title of the article is Sober for Thirty Y., and it was published in the May 1968 issue of the AA Grapevine.

[01:00:03.500 – 01:00:09.720] Okay, thank you. [01:00:09.720 – 01:00:14.560] Uh, that's what we're talking about, and it's called Sober for Thirty Y.. [01:00:14.560 – 01:00:22.160] And what I would like to do, and I don't even mind if you wanna scroll up just a little bit, I wanna read from that very first page. [01:00:22.160 – 01:00:22.580] I don't know… [01:00:22.580 – 01:00:23.500] There you go, right there. [01:00:23.500 – 01:00:24.360] That's perfect. [01:00:24.360 – 01:00:32.120] Okay, so this is an article by James B., Jimmy B.

[01:00:32.120 – 01:00:36.999] At the end of the article it says J period B period San D., Calif. [01:00:36.999 – 01:00:45.560] And this is his talking about his coming into the, the Oxford group meetings. [01:00:45.560 – 01:00:55.580] It says, "As noted in my story, The Vicious Cycle, in the Big Book, I came into the fellowship in New York in January 1938. [01:00:55.580 – 01:01:05.580] At that time, it was just leaving the Oxford Group." Now, statements have been made about Jimmy [01:01:05.580 – 01:01:12.280] had some issues with, uh, accuracy, uh, but that's another, uh, issue. [01:01:12.280 – 01:01:16.740] The point is that, that Bill and Lois had left the Oxford Group a few months previous. [01:01:16.740 – 01:01:20.640] But it says they were just leaving the Oxford Group.

[01:01:20.640 – 01:01:30.700] "There was one closed meeting a week at Bill's home in Brooklyn, attended six or eight men, with only three members who had been sober [01:01:30.700 – 01:01:36.440] f- more than a year: Bill, Hank, and Fritz." That's John H. Fitzhugh M. [01:01:36.440 – 01:01:44.700] "This is about all that had been accomplished in the four years with the New York Oxford." Well, again, it wasn't four years. [01:01:44.700 – 01:01:51.370] We're talking about December 18th of 1934, uh, and this Bill… [01:01:51.370 – 01:01:54.740] and here Jimmy B's talking about January of 1938. [01:01:54.740 – 01:01:59.060] So, uh, three and a quarter, three and a half years you're more in the range. [01:01:59.060 – 01:02:09.760] But at any rate, it says, "During those early meetings at Bill's, they were flying blind with no creed or procedure to guide them, though

[01:02:09.760 – 01:02:19.960] they did use quite a few of the Oxford sayings," that's the Oxford Group sayings, "and the Oxford absolutes," that's the Oxford Group's four absolutes: [01:02:19.960 – 01:02:22.260] honesty, purity, unselfishness, and love. [01:02:22.260 – 01:02:24.020] "Since both Bill and Dr. [01:02:24.020 – 01:02:32.160] Bob had had almost overnight religious experience, experiences," which is not so much true with Dr. [01:02:32.160 – 01:02:42.160] Bob, uh, he already was very solid in the Bible and Christianity, "it was taken for granted that all who followed their way would [01:02:42.160 – 01:02:44.060] have the same sort of experience. [01:02:44.060 – 01:02:51.460] So the early meetings were quite religious in both New York and Akron.

[01:02:51.460 – 01:03:00.060] There was always a Bible on hand, and the concept was all biblical." That's all I wanna read is just that. [01:03:00.060 – 01:03:01.680] I don't need to go to the next page. [01:03:01.680 – 01:03:02.380] We're done with this. [01:03:02.380 – 01:03:03.280] Thank you. [01:03:03.280 – 01:03:04.360] Appreciate that. [01:03:04.360 – 01:03:09.340] Okay, so let's go back to screen. [01:03:09.340 – 01:03:12.060] So there you have…

[01:03:12.060 – 01:03:14.340] Uh, okay, actually I wanna see something. [01:03:14.340 – 01:03:15.080] All right. [01:03:15.080 – 01:03:19.720] Okay, I'm going to just talk to wrap things up here. [01:03:19.720 – 01:03:20.020] So… [01:03:20.020 – 01:03:30.080] Okay, so there you have an eyewitness testimony by Jimmy B., who participated in [01:03:30.080 – 01:03:39.400] the weekly closed meetings at 182 Clinton S. with Bill W., uh, beginning in January of 1938. [01:03:39.400 – 01:03:39.900] Now, we have…

[01:03:39.900 – 01:03:47.120] I'm not gonna cover it for time purposes, but if you go to page 131 of Dr. [01:03:47.120 – 01:03:57.360] Bob and the Good O.-Timers, you will see Frank A.' report, late February 1938, where he lists seven principles [01:03:57.360 – 01:04:06.780] that were present in the testimonies that he heard from the Akron folks that were remarkably alike. [01:04:06.780 – 01:04:17.300] And so if you wanna see the eyewitness testimony of what the Oxford would look like in February, late February of 1938 [01:04:17.300 – 01:04:20.420] in Akron, you can read page 131 of Dr. [01:04:20.420 – 01:04:21.780] Bob and the Good O.-Timers. [01:04:21.780 – 01:04:29.080] And what I just read to you from Jimmy B.'s article is what AA looked like in New York.

[01:04:29.080 – 01:04:30.760] There was. [01:04:30.760 – 01:04:35.480] Their were meetings were quite religious. [01:04:35.480 – 01:04:41.920] They were using the Oxford Group's sa- a number of Oxford Group sayings and the Oxford Group's four absolutes. [01:04:41.920 – 01:04:49.420] And in both New York and Akron, there was always a Bible on hand, and the concept of God was more biblical. [01:04:49.420 – 01:04:58.180] Now, to wrap things up, what I wanna do is take you to what Bill said, uh, in… [01:04:58.180 – 01:05:01.500] I'm sorry, Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age. [01:05:01.500 – 01:05:07.990] And I'm going to, uh, read from pages 166 and 167 of Alco-

[01:05:08.144 – 01:05:09.984] Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age. [01:05:09.984 – 01:05:11.864] This is the crux. [01:05:11.864 – 01:05:19.084] Now, this happened after Bill and Lois left the Oxford Group in mid-1937. [01:05:19.084 – 01:05:21.724] Uh, Lois says they kinda got kicked out. [01:05:21.724 – 01:05:23.904] Uh, oh, I gotta read one more thing. [01:05:23.904 – 01:05:25.764] Uh, uh, Pass It On. [01:05:25.764 – 01:05:28.164] There were two things.

[01:05:28.164 – 01:05:35.044] Now, I read to you about how Bill never again doubted the existence of God, but there's something else. [01:05:35.044 – 01:05:45.064] And actually, if you wanna look at the Dick B on Recovery blog, Dick B on Recovery blog, I post articles by [01:05:45.064 – 01:05:48.024] myself and by my dad there that you might wanna check out. [01:05:48.024 – 01:05:54.604] One of the ones that I, uh, articles I wrote was called The Vision and Mission of Bill W. [01:05:54.604 – 01:06:00.164] He had a vision about December 14th, 1934. [01:06:00.164 – 01:06:07.304] He said, in at least seven different places, he used the word vision or words like it, envisioned. [01:06:07.304 – 01:06:09.584] There are a number of different ways he described it.

[01:06:09.584 – 01:06:16.124] But it's a, there was a vision, he said, and there was also a mission tied into that. [01:06:16.124 – 01:06:26.374] And what I want to s- to, uh, just before I go to page 166 in Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age, I wanna go to Bill's [01:06:26.374 – 01:06:27.304] mission. [01:06:27.304 – 01:06:32.904] And that statement, it's in at least five separate places in AA related literature. [01:06:32.904 – 01:06:41.944] I've documented all of those in my article, The Vision and Mission of Bill W at dickbonrecoveryblog.com. [01:06:41.944 – 01:06:52.264] It says on page 131, the second full para- uh, third full paragraph, in the middle of it, it says, "As [01:06:52.264 – 01:07:02.584] Bill himself described it, quote, 'I was soon heard to say that I was going to fix all the drunks

[01:07:02.584 – 01:07:05.784] in the world.'" That's in quotes. [01:07:05.784 – 01:07:18.204] "As B. himself described it, quote, 'I was soon heard to say that I was going to fix all the drunks in the world.'" Now, that [01:07:18.204 – 01:07:21.244] was, in his view, his mission. [01:07:21.244 – 01:07:31.104] He says in at least one place that he believed he was divinely appointed to fix all the rummies, all the drunks in the world. [01:07:31.104 – 01:07:32.824] Those are his words now. [01:07:32.824 – 01:07:42.824] And the way he pictured that was the language he used was a chain reaction, maybe you know [01:07:42.824 – 01:07:48.764] that phrase, it's in a number of places, of one alcoholic carrying the message to another.

[01:07:48.764 – 01:07:54.044] The chain reaction where he was going to fix all the drunks in the world. [01:07:54.044 – 01:07:59.484] He believed that he was of divinely appointed to do that, and that that was what was asked. [01:07:59.484 – 01:08:07.764] Well, that's not what the A First C. Christian F., also known as the Oxford Group, that's not what they were about. [01:08:07.764 – 01:08:09.144] They were through… [01:08:09.144 – 01:08:13.884] They were about world-changing through life-changing. [01:08:13.884 – 01:08:24.144] And yes, there are nine points that are listed that I'm not gonna go into because of time, but there are nine [01:08:24.144 – 01:08:31.064] points that are listed in Pass It On, on page th- these are often quoted.

[01:08:31.064 – 01:08:37.344] On one four- 131, Bill says, "As B. himself…" Let's see. [01:08:37.344 – 01:08:38.624] That wasn't the right page. [01:08:38.624 – 01:08:39.184] I'm sorry. [01:08:39.184 – 01:08:42.274] Uh, well, that wasn't that one. [01:08:42.274 – 01:08:50.164] Anyway, there's a list of nine points of what the Oxford Group was about, why they left it, and those are commonly quoted. [01:08:50.164 – 01:09:00.524] Right before that, Bill talks about he is always willing to say privately that the Oxford Group and its emphasis [01:09:00.524 – 01:09:04.804] on the Christian message, and one other thing, saved my life.

[01:09:04.804 – 01:09:10.564] The Oxford Group emphasis on the Christian message, and one other thing, saved my life. [01:09:10.564 – 01:09:13.204] Then he lists the difficulties. [01:09:13.204 – 01:09:23.204] Well, the basic difficulties were that the alcoholics were not behaved well enough for the, uh, hoity-toity upper class Oxford [01:09:23.204 – 01:09:23.864] Group people. [01:09:23.864 – 01:09:29.364] Uh, and they have a broken stained glass window, uh, in the mix. [01:09:29.364 – 01:09:34.704] And you have Bill meeting at Stewart's Cafe and considered having rump meetings. [01:09:34.704 – 01:09:44.904] There are a number of different issues, but the point was Bill believed that God had given him a mission to save all, or fix, all the drunks,

[01:09:44.904 – 01:09:46.224] the rummies in the world. [01:09:46.224 – 01:09:48.444] That was what he was about. [01:09:48.444 – 01:09:52.424] That was not what the Oxford Group was primarily about. [01:09:52.424 – 01:10:01.084] There was a disharmony between the two groups, and because of various upsets, they parted company. [01:10:01.084 – 01:10:09.584] But what I wanna leave you with is on page 166 of Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age. [01:10:09.584 – 01:10:18.064] 166 and 167, because this is the impact on the Big Book, and this is what it says. [01:10:18.064 – 01:10:20.984] This is the last paragraph on page 166.

[01:10:20.984 – 01:10:28.664] "Just before the manuscript was finished, an event of great significance for our future took place. [01:10:28.664 – 01:10:33.704] At the time, it looked like just another battle o-" [01:10:33.840 – 01:10:34.440] Over the book. [01:10:34.440 – 01:10:41.040] The scene was Henry's office in Newark, where most of the writing of the big book had been done. [01:10:41.040 – 01:10:47.120] Present were Fitz, Henry, our l- grand little secretary, Ruth, and myself. [01:10:47.120 – 01:10:50.910] We were still arguing about the 12 steps. [01:10:50.910 – 01:10:56.020] All this time I had refused to budge on these steps.

[01:10:56.020 – 01:11:06.080] I would not change a word of the original draft in which, you will remember, I had consistently used [01:11:06.080 – 01:11:07.420] the word God. [01:11:07.420 – 01:11:09.500] Thank you. [01:11:09.500 – 01:11:14.740] And in one place, the expression "on our knees" was used. [01:11:14.740 – 01:11:20.920] Now, who wrote the original draft of the 12 steps? [01:11:20.920 – 01:11:23.459] William G. W., Bill W. [01:11:23.459 – 01:11:28.020] What did the writer of the original draft of the 12 steps say?

[01:11:28.020 – 01:11:30.800] That he had consistently used the word God. [01:11:30.800 – 01:11:32.400] Why would he do that? [01:11:32.400 – 01:11:42.520] Well, in part, perhaps I'll suggest for your consideration, after his white light experience where he sensed the presence of God at T. Hospital, [01:11:42.520 – 01:11:52.600] December 14th, approximately 1934, that experience resulted in his never again doubting the [01:11:52.600 – 01:11:53.740] existence of God. [01:11:53.740 – 01:12:03.000] He knew that it was God who had relieved him of his alcoholism permanently. [01:12:03.000 – 01:12:05.300] And so it continues.

[01:12:05.300 – 01:12:12.820] It says, "Praying to God on one's knees was still a big affront to Henry. [01:12:12.820 – 01:12:15.220] He argued, he begged, he threatened. [01:12:15.220 – 01:12:18.700] He quoted Jimmy," that's Jimmy B, "to back him up. [01:12:18.700 – 01:12:25.200] He was positive we would scare off alcoholics by the thousands when they read those 12 steps. [01:12:25.200 – 01:12:33.660] Little by little, both Fritz and Ruth came to see merit in his contentions." Excuse me, Fitz and Ruth. [01:12:33.660 – 01:12:34.340] Pardon me. [01:12:34.340 – 01:12:36.490] "To see merit in his contentions.

[01:12:36.490 – 01:12:43.519] Though at first I would have none of it, we finally began to talk about the possibility of compromise. [01:12:43.519 – 01:12:48.580] Who first suggested the actual compromise words, I do not know. [01:12:48.580 – 01:12:54.220] But these are words well-known throughout the length and breadth of AA today. [01:12:54.220 – 01:13:04.300] In step two, we decided to describe God as…" So who was Bill talking about? [01:13:04.300 – 01:13:05.860] Who were they talking about? [01:13:05.860 – 01:13:07.879] They were talking about God. [01:13:07.879 – 01:13:11.820] They decided to describe God as…

[01:13:11.820 – 01:13:22.020] Now, it should be the, the quote, left quote should be to the left of the word A, but it is a quote, "Power greater than ourselves," end of quote. [01:13:22.020 – 01:13:31.080] "In steps three and 11, we inserted the words, 'God as we understood him,' end of quote," with the words "as we understood him" in italics. [01:13:31.080 – 01:13:37.260] And again, the, the qu- left quotation should be a- just before the word as. [01:13:37.260 – 01:13:39.000] They didn't insert the word God. [01:13:39.000 – 01:13:40.080] It was already there. [01:13:40.080 – 01:13:45.500] He consistently used the word God in the original draft, he said. [01:13:45.500 – 01:13:55.620] Oh, and by the way, if you wanna see the best guesstimate of what the original draft looked like, you can go to pages

[01:13:55.620 – 01:13:59.140] 198 and 199 of Pass It On. [01:13:59.140 – 01:14:03.100] That's 198 and 199 in Pass It On. [01:14:03.100 – 01:14:11.140] There's a listing of the- their best approximation of what the original draft of the 12 steps, which they said had been lost, looked like. [01:14:11.140 – 01:14:12.740] So continuing. [01:14:12.740 – 01:14:22.780] "From step seven, we deleted the expression on our knees, quote, on our knees, end of quote, and as a lead-in sentence [01:14:22.780 – 01:14:29.640] to all the steps, we wrote these words, quote, 'Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery,' end of quote. [01:14:29.640 – 01:14:34.880] AA's 12 steps were to be suggestions," in italics, "only.

[01:14:34.880 – 01:14:40.120] Such were the final concessions to those of little or no faith. [01:14:40.120 – 01:14:44.880] This was the great contribution of our atheists and agnostics. [01:14:44.880 – 01:14:54.900] They had widened our gateway so that all who suffer might pass through, regardless of their belief or," in italics, "lack, lack of [01:14:54.900 – 01:14:55.260] belief. [01:14:55.260 – 01:14:59.920] God was certainly there in our steps. [01:14:59.920 – 01:15:10.170] But He," capital H, "was now expressed in terms that anybody," or, uh, italics, "anybody [01:15:10.170 – 01:15:14.560] at all," end of italics, "could accept and try." Okay.

[01:15:14.560 – 01:15:24.840] So that- those are some brief introductory remarks about why a first-century [01:15:24.840 – 01:15:34.840] Christian fellowship, also known as the Oxford Group, why AA left it, which isn't a very precise explanation of what happened, [01:15:34.840 – 01:15:35.760] which I explained. [01:15:35.760 – 01:15:37.680] Bill and Lois were invited to leave. [01:15:37.680 – 01:15:42.120] But that's a little overview of some of those things. [01:15:42.120 – 01:15:52.140] And as I said, if you wanna know more, and there's a tremendous amount more, you can look at books like The Oxford Group and Alcoholics Anonymous, New L. [01:15:52.140 – 01:15:59.270] on Alcoholism: God, Sam S., and A.A., The Akron Genesis of Alcoholics Anonymous, and Turning P-

[01:16:00.204 – 01:16:10.284] All four of those books offer a lot of additional background about what was going on in New York at 182 Clinton S. and [01:16:10.284 – 01:16:14.584] in Akron at 855 Ardmore A. and also at the T. [01:16:14.584 – 01:16:16.504] Henry and Clarice W. home. [01:16:16.504 – 01:16:18.864] So thank you, David. [01:16:18.864 – 01:16:19.584] Aloha. [01:16:19.584 – 01:16:21.264] I'm standing by for questions. [01:16:21.264 – 01:16:22.464] Thank you, Ken.

[01:16:22.464 – 01:16:26.144] If you'd like to unmute, I believe you can unmute if you'd like to acknowledge Ken's work. [01:16:26.144 – 01:16:27.624] Thank you, Ken. [01:16:27.624 – 01:16:29.694] Thank you, Ken. [01:16:29.694 – 01:16:30.124] Thank you so much. [01:16:30.124 – 01:16:30.764] Aloha. [01:16:30.764 – 01:16:31.214] Thank you. [01:16:31.214 – 01:16:31.984] Thank you very much.

[01:16:31.984 – 01:16:32.264] Thank you. [01:16:32.264 – 01:16:32.364] Thank you. [01:16:32.364 – 01:16:35.464] Really great. [01:16:35.464 – 01:16:36.724] Thank you, Ken. [01:16:36.724 – 01:16:44.224] So we're gonna keep recording, just to let people know, and also that this is, uh, before we go to Stuart, this is not a discussion meeting. [01:16:44.224 – 01:16:46.024] You can contact Ken if you want to get in it. [01:16:46.024 – 01:16:47.804] Unless K. wants to get into a discussion.

[01:16:47.804 – 01:16:48.684] Ken, that'd be interesting. [01:16:48.684 – 01:16:50.644] So with that, over to you, Stuart. [01:16:50.644 – 01:16:52.564] Hello again, everybody. [01:16:52.564 – 01:16:53.764] It's Stuart A.. [01:16:53.764 – 01:17:01.824] If you'd like to come in and ask a question and be part of the meeting, then please raise your hand in the participants section and I'll call on you. [01:17:01.824 – 01:17:04.084] And we're gonna start off with Eddie G. [01:17:04.084 – 01:17:05.324] in Toronto.

[01:17:05.324 – 01:17:06.324] Good evening, Eddie. [01:17:06.324 – 01:17:08.024] Yeah. [01:17:08.024 – 01:17:08.444] Thank you. [01:17:08.444 – 01:17:09.744] Uh, uh, yeah. [01:17:09.744 – 01:17:10.404] Thanks, Ken. [01:17:10.404 – 01:17:14.004] Um, I, I wanted to ask you, um, to elaborate on this. [01:17:14.004 – 01:17:22.284] At the beginning when you mentioned about S., you said that he had a part, uh, in the steps two to 11.

[01:17:22.284 – 01:17:24.364] Could you elaborate on that, please? [01:17:24.364 – 01:17:25.424] Thank you. [01:17:25.424 – 01:17:25.934] Sure. [01:17:25.934 – 01:17:26.184] Sure. [01:17:26.184 – 01:17:30.664] What I'm talking about is Bill W.'s statement. [01:17:30.664 – 01:17:40.944] And Bill W., the reference I'm, I'm talking about, you'll find it in, if I remember correctly, in The Language of the Heart, [01:17:40.944 – 01:17:43.823] Bill W., Great, Great, Bill W.'s Grapevine W..

[01:17:43.823 – 01:17:47.964] There are two articles that he wrote in particular. [01:17:47.964 – 01:17:52.004] One of them is around 195, 198. [01:17:52.004 – 01:18:01.784] The other one's around 295, 298, where he goes into a lot of detail about how the Big Book was written. [01:18:01.784 – 01:18:05.624] And of course, today there's a lot more information out there available. [01:18:05.624 – 01:18:16.224] But Bill attributed what he called the spiritual substance of 10 of the 12 steps to, to [01:18:16.224 – 01:18:23.964] the Oxford Group as they were then led in America by Reverend S. S.. [01:18:23.964 – 01:18:25.604] And that's…

[01:18:25.604 – 01:18:31.064] I don't even want to begin to try to get into the dep- try to get into the depth of that. [01:18:31.064 – 01:18:32.524] The… [01:18:32.524 – 01:18:41.444] If, if you want to see most of that, you'll find that in the book my dad wrote, New L. on Alcoholism: God, Sam S., and A.A. [01:18:41.444 – 01:18:43.084] Very extensive coverage. [01:18:43.084 – 01:18:50.984] There are a number of aspects of Bill's relationship with Reverend S. S. that influenced him. [01:18:50.984 – 01:19:01.064] In other words, Ebby T., who had been Bill's Burr and Burton S. schoolmate for Bill's final year at Burr [01:19:01.064 – 01:19:11.204] and Burton S. from September of, uh, 1912 to June of 1913, that's the year that Ebby attended, uh, Burr and Burton S. as

[01:19:11.204 – 01:19:11.524] well. [01:19:11.524 – 01:19:17.944] Ebby had brought him the message, Bill the message in late November, is what it states in AA's literature. [01:19:17.944 – 01:19:28.064] Uh, and that, uh, message, when he brought it, he was living at Calvary M., which was run by [01:19:28.064 – 01:19:29.824] Sam S.'s Episcopal C.. [01:19:29.824 – 01:19:35.204] And as I said, Sam S. o- had opened that mission in early 1926. [01:19:35.204 – 01:19:38.304] And so Ebby was there. [01:19:38.304 – 01:19:48.454] Ebby, uh, he, Bill went to see Ebby about December 8th, and according to one record, the night before he had seen Ebby give his

[01:19:48.454 – 01:19:52.224] testimony in the pulpit at Sam S.'s Calvary C.. [01:19:52.224 – 01:20:03.144] So coming out of the gate, Bill was assoc- reacquainted with, especially, reassociated with his good friend Ebby. [01:20:03.144 – 01:20:13.144] And as I mentioned in passing, uh, Ebby was very shortly thereafter, I believe it was, uh, early to mid-February of 1935, I've, [01:20:13.144 – 01:20:23.384] I've come up with the details if you wanna send me an email or something, but there were two people who were, uh, baptized and, uh, uh, [01:20:23.384 – 01:20:27.864] at that time, one was Ebby and the other was Dr. [01:20:27.864 – 01:20:29.444] Freddie B- Brightman. [01:20:29.444 – 01:20:39.604] And so Tex, Texas, uh, Tex or Tech, uh, Taylor F., Tex F., Taylor F., and one other

[01:20:39.604 – 01:20:45.704] per- people, person served as godparents to one, Bill and Lois' godparents for the other. [01:20:45.704 – 01:20:49.484] And so that was in Sam S.'s church. [01:20:49.484 – 01:20:59.064] So E. was continued to be, continued to be tied to Sam S.'s church right along, not only at the mission, but also the church. [01:20:59.064 – 01:21:09.564] The meetings that Bill began attending at Oxford Group meetings were being held primarily at Calvary H., which is literally physically [01:21:09.564 – 01:21:14.684] right around the corner from Calvary P. Episcopal C. in Manhattan. [01:21:14.684 – 01:21:22.344] Uh, Sam S. lived, uh, on one of the upper floors at Calvary H., so he was doing those meetings. [01:21:22.344 – 01:21:25.064] So right from the beginning, Bill W.

[01:21:25.178 – 01:21:35.588] W. was actively interacting with Reverend S. S. in conjunction with the Oxford Group's American [01:21:35.588 – 01:21:45.728] headquarters was at Calvary H. in Manhattan s- right, right next to Sam S.'s ch- church in the building that Sam [01:21:45.728 – 01:21:46.108] lived. [01:21:46.108 – 01:21:50.588] And so that's where Bill and Lois were going to Oxford Group meetings. [01:21:50.588 – 01:21:56.388] Now, they went to house parties, and they did their with the meeting at Stewart's Cafe and so forth. [01:21:56.388 – 01:22:06.768] But they were actively involved with Reverend S. S. in conjunction with his leading the a First C. Christian [01:22:06.768 – 01:22:10.368] Fellowship, also known as the Oxford Group, in America.

[01:22:10.368 – 01:22:20.537] And that didn't get cut off or interfered with until Bill and Lois were asked to leave in mid-1937, and [01:22:20.537 – 01:22:25.508] Sam S. was not present when that happened. [01:22:25.508 – 01:22:35.528] It was one of his associate ministers, one of his ministers that worked under Sam, that was involved with inviting Bill and [01:22:35.528 – 01:22:36.348] Lois to leave. [01:22:36.348 – 01:22:38.478] That was not done by Sam S.. [01:22:38.478 – 01:22:48.508] And so Sam had written 14 books and a number of pamphlets by, for the [01:22:48.508 – 01:22:57.388] Oxford Group or in conjunction with the Oxford Group by the end of 1939 when the big book was published.

[01:22:57.388 – 01:23:07.908] My dad lists and describes, discusses all of those titles, all of which I helped him acquire, uh, in his book, New L. on Alcoholism, [01:23:07.908 – 01:23:09.688] if you wanna see more than about that. [01:23:09.688 – 01:23:19.978] S.'s writings were in the, uh, church publication for Calvary P. [01:23:19.978 – 01:23:23.608] Episcopal C., which was called the Calvary E.. [01:23:23.608 – 01:23:27.168] And if you may, you may have, uh, seen that Dr. [01:23:27.168 – 01:23:31.508] Bob talked about how he had read all the books that they had recommended. [01:23:31.508 – 01:23:41.668] Well, where they were recommended, and the same was true with Henrietta S., by the way, and Anne was a pretty voracious reader as well, they were listed in the

[01:23:41.668 – 01:23:44.708] church's publication called the Calvary E.. [01:23:44.708 – 01:23:55.588] That was, in some ways, you might say, the mouthpiece for the Oxford Group, also known as the First C. Christian F., in America [01:23:55.588 – 01:24:03.548] at the time during which, uh, Bill and Lois and Bob and Anne were actively involved with the group. [01:24:03.548 – 01:24:11.588] Sam S. did not cut off his involvement with Brooklyn and the Oxford Group until 1941. [01:24:11.588 – 01:24:21.708] So the entire time that Bob and Anne were involved, the entire time that Bill and Lois were involved, Sam S. was very nearby. [01:24:21.708 – 01:24:24.118] I mean, yes, you have to go from- B- … [01:24:24.118 – 01:24:26.508] Brooklyn to Manhattan, but they're very nearby.

[01:24:26.508 – 01:24:28.108] Th- that is a very detailed answer. [01:24:28.108 – 01:24:30.167] Uh, Eddie, do you wanna come back on that? [01:24:30.167 – 01:24:33.338] Um, and you can contact Ken. [01:24:33.338 – 01:24:34.758] Ken, we have a lot of questions- Yeah, thank you … [01:24:34.758 – 01:24:35.348] as well jump in. [01:24:35.348 – 01:24:37.348] Yeah, Eddie's… [01:24:37.348 – 01:24:38.368] Thank you for that, Ken.

[01:24:38.368 – 01:24:39.508] Sorry, Stuart, go ahead. [01:24:39.508 – 01:24:43.137] We're gonna go to Bart A., New York City now. [01:24:43.137 – 01:24:44.108] Good evening, Bart. [01:24:44.108 – 01:24:46.288] Good evening, family, and thanks, Ken. [01:24:46.288 – 01:24:47.708] That was a awesome thing. [01:24:47.708 – 01:24:49.628] I got some of those books that you mentioned. [01:24:49.628 – 01:24:50.818] What I wanted- Of course …

[01:24:50.818 – 01:24:58.548] to know, could you slowly s- uh, give me the name of the seminary you said that Bill W. went to? [01:24:58.548 – 01:25:00.668] Could you do that slowly? [01:25:00.668 – 01:25:00.697] Okay. [01:25:00.697 – 01:25:01.728] The, the s- I- Sure. [01:25:01.728 – 01:25:08.948] The school that Bill attended had three names in the course of its existence. [01:25:08.948 – 01:25:09.788] Okay. [01:25:09.788 – 01:25:17.448] When it was founded, 1829, it was called Burr, B-U-R-R, Seminary.

[01:25:17.448 – 01:25:18.388] Okay. [01:25:18.388 – 01:25:25.248] And in the 1860s, I, I have an article that I posted on Instagram, on Facebook. [01:25:25.248 – 01:25:26.348] I've written about this. [01:25:26.348 – 01:25:28.068] You can look it up, send me an email. [01:25:28.068 – 01:25:37.948] About 1865 or so, a gentleman by the name of Burton, B-U-R-T-O-N- B-U-R- Well, the school… [01:25:37.948 – 01:25:39.868] B-U-R-T-O-N. [01:25:39.868 – 01:25:40.568] Okay.

[01:25:40.568 – 01:25:50.588] It was called Burr because Burr left them a whole bunch of money if they would do a school to train congregational young men [01:25:50.588 – 01:25:51.448] for ministry. [01:25:51.448 – 01:25:52.628] That's how the school started. [01:25:52.628 – 01:25:53.168] Mm-hmm. [01:25:53.168 – 01:25:59.488] Then B. came along and dropped another pile of cash on it, but ended up being about $11,000. [01:25:59.488 – 01:26:06.038] If, and said, "You can have it all if you add training for females," which they were- Mm … [01:26:06.038 – 01:26:07.808] just beginning to consider.

[01:26:07.808 – 01:26:13.708] So around the time that the name, the name was changed to Burr and Burton S.. [01:26:13.708 – 01:26:14.788] Okay. [01:26:14.788 – 01:26:16.688] Burr and Burton S.. [01:26:16.688 – 01:26:17.178] Mm. [01:26:17.178 – 01:26:21.468] That was about 1865 to 1869. [01:26:21.468 – 01:26:31.348] The entire time that Bill was attending, all the way up until about August of 1999, the school was called Burr and Burton S.. [01:26:31.348 – 01:26:31.908] Mm.

[01:26:31.908 – 01:26:39.568] And at that time, it, the name was changed to what it is today, which is, uh, Burr and Burton A.. [01:26:39.568 – 01:26:40.788] Oh. [01:26:40.788 – 01:26:42.128] Burr and Burton A.. [01:26:42.128 – 01:26:46.728] So if anybody says the school was Burr and Burton A., no, it wasn't. [01:26:46.728 – 01:26:50.557] But you also have to understand that the word seminary was- [01:26:50.832 – 01:26:57.612] Was used fairly commonly as the equivalent of what we might call today school or high school. [01:26:57.612 – 01:26:58.481] Oh.

[01:26:58.481 – 01:27:06.052] So B., Burton S. was, it was a boarding school that Bill was attending. [01:27:06.052 – 01:27:09.371] I, he, he was boarding there. [01:27:09.371 – 01:27:10.072] Mm. [01:27:10.072 – 01:27:16.592] And I believe only sometimes did he come home to East D. by train seven miles away on the weekends. [01:27:16.592 – 01:27:19.032] So that's, those are the three names of the school. [01:27:19.032 – 01:27:20.552] Thank you very much. [01:27:20.552 – 01:27:21.182] Mm-hmm.

[01:27:21.182 – 01:27:22.672] Thank you very much. [01:27:22.672 – 01:27:24.612] We're gonna go to George now. [01:27:24.612 – 01:27:25.792] Good evening, George. [01:27:25.792 – 01:27:26.672] Howl. [01:27:26.672 – 01:27:27.792] Yes. [01:27:27.792 – 01:27:28.272] Hi. [01:27:28.272 – 01:27:30.372] Uh, I'm George, I'm an alcoholic.

[01:27:30.372 – 01:27:33.352] And, uh, Ken, thank you so much. [01:27:33.352 – 01:27:34.212] I would like to… [01:27:34.212 – 01:27:42.972] I'm, I'm an Orthodox priest, uh, serving now in Washington, DC, and I am originally from Ukraine. [01:27:42.972 – 01:27:47.832] And I am heavily involved in clergy recovery overseas. [01:27:47.832 – 01:27:49.012] We do Zoom meetings. [01:27:49.012 – 01:27:52.852] And your research is very, very helpful for… [01:27:52.852 – 01:27:58.431] I, I've been sober for 20 years, and for 15 years I use your research.

[01:27:58.431 – 01:28:01.292] Even I did not buy any of your books yet. [01:28:01.292 – 01:28:01.892] Mm. [01:28:01.892 – 01:28:12.002] But your articles and, uh, your citations to explain the clergy, these differences and these fine points, how all this fits together. [01:28:12.002 – 01:28:18.952] Because sometimes on the meetings, as you know, they hear always atheistic program or don't bring God here in. [01:28:18.952 – 01:28:22.612] And so just wanted to thank you, thank you, thank you so much. [01:28:22.612 – 01:28:29.752] And, uh, I, I will, uh, write you in the mail, and I promise I'll commit to buy your books also. [01:28:29.752 – 01:28:31.792] Thank you so much for your service.

[01:28:31.792 – 01:28:34.272] Thank you, George, I appreciate that. [01:28:34.272 – 01:28:35.572] I've been getting your messages. [01:28:35.572 – 01:28:36.312] Aloha. [01:28:36.312 – 01:28:37.192] Thank you. [01:28:37.192 – 01:28:39.112] Thank you very much. [01:28:39.112 – 01:28:42.922] Um, if, if, does anyone else have any more questions? [01:28:42.922 – 01:28:47.592] If so, please raise your hand in the participant section and I'll call on you.

[01:28:47.592 – 01:28:49.792] Oh, hello everybody. [01:28:49.792 – 01:28:53.232] Um, we're gonna go to Wayne in Trinidad. [01:28:53.232 – 01:28:54.492] Good evening, Wayne. [01:28:54.492 – 01:28:55.732] Hi. [01:28:55.732 – 01:28:56.672] Good evening, everyone. [01:28:56.672 – 01:29:01.912] I must say a special hello to David, and thank you, David, for your reminders of the meeting. [01:29:01.912 – 01:29:06.052] Um, on a quick side note, I couldn't join you for the past month or so.

[01:29:06.052 – 01:29:07.482] I was very, very ill. [01:29:07.482 – 01:29:11.392] But this is the first time in over a month I was able to join. [01:29:11.392 – 01:29:12.892] Still not to 100%. [01:29:12.892 – 01:29:19.752] Um, Ken, we mentioned something that had me confused, um, a date. [01:29:19.752 – 01:29:25.992] Um, I was in a meeting about two weeks ago where they were doing some history. [01:29:25.992 – 01:29:35.992] And, um, the guy who was doing it said that Bill D., his sober date is the 26th of the 6th, [01:29:35.992 – 01:29:36.432] '35.

[01:29:36.432 – 01:29:45.902] And I don't know if I got it wrong or I didn't hear correctly, but you said his sober date is July 4th, 1935. [01:29:45.902 – 01:29:48.672] I, I don't know if I- I appreciate your mentioning that. [01:29:48.672 – 01:29:49.832] I appreciate your mentioning that. [01:29:49.832 – 01:29:52.172] Let, let me be clear, uh, on that. [01:29:52.172 – 01:30:01.212] So what I was focusing on, and I may have jumbled them up, and if I did, I apologize, and we'll clean it up right this minute. [01:30:01.212 – 01:30:11.432] What I was focusing on was that the date on which the start of Akron, [01:30:11.432 – 01:30:18.012] the Akron number one group is celebrated is July 4th, 1935.

[01:30:18.012 – 01:30:28.092] And that celebration, so to speak, of the s- founding or starting of the Akron number one group was the date [01:30:28.092 – 01:30:29.252] on which Bill D. [01:30:29.252 – 01:30:31.792] left Akron C. Hospital. [01:30:31.792 – 01:30:38.352] Now, he had come into Akron C. Hospital, and this is where we talk about sobriety date. [01:30:38.352 – 01:30:48.112] He had come into Akron C. Hospital, and I believe the date you mentioned, if I heard you right, was, was about June 26th, 1935. [01:30:48.112 – 01:30:55.452] And then it was about two days later that Bill and Bob got connected with him. [01:30:55.452 – 01:31:03.272] And so there was a period of about, what did we say, about four and six…

[01:31:03.272 – 01:31:06.992] Uh, about 10 days, nine to 10 days that Bill D. [01:31:06.992 – 01:31:08.252] was in the hospital. [01:31:08.252 – 01:31:12.452] And Bill and Bob first saw Bill D. [01:31:12.452 – 01:31:15.692] about two days after he entered the hospital. [01:31:15.692 – 01:31:25.752] And then it was July the 4th, 1935 that Bill came out, and that was celebrated as the founding of Akron number one group because [01:31:25.752 – 01:31:29.012] Bill was the third AA, then they had a group. [01:31:29.012 – 01:31:32.072] Great.

[01:31:32.072 – 01:31:33.452] Thank you very much. [01:31:33.452 – 01:31:35.632] We're gonna go to Azel now. [01:31:35.632 – 01:31:36.912] Good evening, Azel. [01:31:36.912 – 01:31:41.992] Hi, this is Azel, real alcoholic. [01:31:41.992 – 01:31:45.092] Uh, thank you, David. [01:31:45.092 – 01:31:47.712] Uh, thank you, Stuart. [01:31:47.712 – 01:31:49.752] Thank you, Ken.

[01:31:49.752 – 01:31:59.902] Um, uh, I've, um, read, uh, a number of your father's books, and [01:31:59.902 – 01:32:05.292] it just so happens that you speak the way he writes. [01:32:05.292 – 01:32:09.752] A bunch of m- a bunch of footnotes. [01:32:09.752 – 01:32:12.372] Yep, absolutely. [01:32:12.372 – 01:32:16.342] Well, who do you think was kicking him in the behind to get him to footnote everything? [01:32:17.608 – 01:32:20.188] No, that was you, huh? [01:32:20.188 – 01:32:20.728] Okay.

[01:32:20.728 – 01:32:26.598] Well, he already did that 'cause he was a legal researcher, but I encouraged him to do it more . [01:32:26.598 – 01:32:26.948] Right. [01:32:26.948 – 01:32:27.848] Yeah. [01:32:27.848 – 01:32:37.868] I'd, I'd like, uh, your, um, t- I'd like for you to speak a little bit about why the name Oxford [01:32:37.868 – 01:32:41.708] Group was changed to more rearmament- Sure … [01:32:41.708 – 01:32:42.808] circumstances. [01:32:42.808 – 01:32:43.768] Sure.

[01:32:43.768 – 01:32:44.138] Thank you. [01:32:44.138 – 01:32:44.508] Okay. [01:32:44.508 – 01:32:54.967] Well, there were several things going on, and we've discussed some of that recently in the AA History L. Facebook group, which I highly [01:32:54.967 – 01:32:55.628] recommend. [01:32:55.628 – 01:33:01.088] It's growing by leaps and bounds, as it should be, because Tom R. [01:33:01.088 – 01:33:05.508] is doing an excellent job as the third admin of the group. [01:33:05.508 – 01:33:10.647] Uh, and so, uh, we ha- we discussed some of that.

[01:33:10.647 – 01:33:20.948] And the Oxford Group, y- you could say it was surrounded by controversy ver- [01:33:20.948 – 01:33:22.728] starting very early . [01:33:22.728 – 01:33:31.128] There were Christians who di- did not like the Oxford, did not like Frank B. and what he was doing. [01:33:31.128 – 01:33:33.168] There were Christians that did. [01:33:33.168 – 01:33:40.348] And there were others who admired it from a distance, and there were others who despised it from a distance. [01:33:40.348 – 01:33:45.408] So that was going on, uh, in the, in the '20s. [01:33:45.408 – 01:33:47.028] But, but what…

[01:33:47.028 – 01:33:52.928] And, and the early 1930s, uh, books started coming out particularly then. [01:33:52.928 – 01:34:02.488] So about 1934, uh, for example, there were things coming out, and there were, began to be critical pieces. [01:34:02.488 – 01:34:07.868] Like for example, Time M. did a critical article about Dr. [01:34:07.868 – 01:34:12.428] B. and the Oxford Group, uh, around 1934. [01:34:12.428 – 01:34:13.968] There was another book. [01:34:13.968 – 01:34:19.028] And so, uh, there was a lot of heat being directed at the Oxford Group. [01:34:19.028 – 01:34:21.828] Well, 1936, it was…

[01:34:21.828 – 01:34:31.948] Keeping in mind that the focus of the Oxford Group largely was on, uh, the, the phrase high end comes to my [01:34:31.948 – 01:34:33.408] mind, but, uh, Dr. [01:34:33.408 – 01:34:43.588] B. was a world level evangelist, and he was used to interacting with heads of countries. [01:34:43.588 – 01:34:53.628] So for example, Bill W. was in a Oxford Group businessman's meeting, and as part of that businessman's group, I shouldn't say group, [01:34:53.628 – 01:34:55.788] as part of the team is the word. [01:34:55.788 – 01:35:06.988] Bill was in a, an Oxford Group team, and as part of Bill's work, he was involved with shepherding around Carl H., who [01:35:06.988 – 01:35:09.148] was the president of the…

[01:35:09.148 – 01:35:12.928] He was the head of the parliament in Norway. [01:35:12.928 – 01:35:15.528] He was a, a big deal. [01:35:15.528 – 01:35:16.618] And Dr. [01:35:16.618 – 01:35:26.808] B. was used to meeting with kings and queens and so forth around the world, and he was very focused on people who were very [01:35:26.808 – 01:35:31.868] wealthy, and particularly in the UK, but also in America and elsewhere. [01:35:31.868 – 01:35:34.908] There were a bunch of v- very wealthy people involved with him. [01:35:34.908 – 01:35:39.568] And one of the peop- one of the concerns that Dr.

[01:35:39.568 – 01:35:44.148] B. had had to do with communism versus Nazism. [01:35:44.148 – 01:35:44.808] Mm. [01:35:44.808 – 01:35:48.048] He was not a communist, and he was not a Nazi. [01:35:48.048 – 01:35:55.088] He was interested in bringing Jesus C. as Lord and Savior to everyone in the world. [01:35:55.088 – 01:35:58.808] He was an eva- a Christian evangelist minister. [01:35:58.808 – 01:35:59.978] Mm. [01:35:59.978 – 01:36:09.408] But he had a lot of focus on people like country leaders, for example, and people very high up in countries' governments.

[01:36:09.408 – 01:36:18.508] So he actually met with Heinrich H., or, or, no, didn't meet with him, but he was supposed to meet with him, tried to meet with him. [01:36:18.508 – 01:36:23.318] And if I remember right, that meeting never happened, but there wa… [01:36:23.318 – 01:36:25.508] It may have, but, and it was only once. [01:36:25.508 – 01:36:36.168] But Schum- uh, but B. made a comment, and it's quoted as, "Thank G. for a man like Hitler." [01:36:36.168 – 01:36:41.388] Well, first of all, that's not, th- that's not the exact wording of what he said. [01:36:41.388 – 01:36:42.528] That's the first point. [01:36:42.528 – 01:36:46.128] I had to dig around a lot to find it, which I did.

[01:36:46.128 – 01:36:56.188] But the second thing is there's a context, and part of what he was getting at, B., was that Naz- was that… [01:36:56.188 – 01:36:58.788] This w- remember when this was. [01:36:58.788 – 01:37:05.708] 1936, four years before, five years before World W. II gets cranking up, okay? [01:37:05.708 – 01:37:08.468] Before then, years before then. [01:37:08.468 – 01:37:18.768] He, he saw communism as a terrible evil, and he viewed that Hitler might be able to hold [01:37:18.768 – 01:37:21.888] back, restrain, defeat, whatever communism. [01:37:21.888 – 01:37:31.048] And so he focused on connecting with Hitler, and his way of doing that was to get to Heinrich H..

[01:37:31.048 – 01:37:38.108] And so he met with an associate of Him- Himmler, and I believe Himmler either pulled out or whatever. [01:37:38.108 – 01:37:40.208] I don't think he actually came, if I remember right. [01:37:40.208 – 01:37:41.448] Could be wrong. [01:37:42.172 – 01:37:52.512] But he made this statement, which is misquoted in most newspapers and publications, about thank God for a man like Hitler, and that was jumped [01:37:52.512 – 01:37:55.312] on and trumpeted all over the place. [01:37:55.312 – 01:38:02.612] And it really left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. [01:38:02.612 – 01:38:12.652] And so it's not the only reason or the only thing that was going on, but the move, the change to moral

[01:38:12.652 – 01:38:17.432] rearmament, uh, came out of that environment. [01:38:17.432 – 01:38:27.492] Now, if you wanna n- read the whole story, then I would suggest you go to Garth L.'s book, Frank B.: A Life, also [01:38:27.492 – 01:38:29.332] called On the Tail of a Comet. [01:38:29.332 – 01:38:36.172] He talks about that, the meeting, the background, in great detail, and so you'll find that there. [01:38:36.172 – 01:38:41.172] My dad covers a little of that, but Garth L.'s book covers it in great detail. [01:38:41.172 – 01:38:45.932] Thank you very much. [01:38:45.932 – 01:38:50.112] Um, I think that we've, that's all the time we have for questions.

[01:38:50.112 – 01:38:54.232] Um, I'm gonna hand the meeting back to David now. [01:38:54.232 – 01:38:55.472] Thanks, George. [01:38:55.472 – 01:39:04.052] So we'll have a meeting after the meeting, um, where Ken, if you'd like to stay, you can stay, but, um, you know, at this part of the meeting is closed. [01:39:04.052 – 01:39:07.812] But, um, Ken, would you like to finish it off for us with a prayer of your choice? [01:39:07.812 – 01:39:09.232] Yep, I would. [01:39:09.232 – 01:39:19.312] Heavenly F., I thank you for this opportunity to share with this group of people who want to know more about [01:39:19.312 – 01:39:22.892] the particularly early history of Alcoholics Anonymous.

[01:39:22.892 – 01:39:32.912] I thank you for the opportunity to learn from and share what my dad learned over 25 [01:39:32.912 – 01:39:38.232] years, from 1990 to 2015, and that I've been continuing on. [01:39:38.232 – 01:39:44.832] I thank you for this opportunity to be able to share a little bit and direct people to places that they might learn more. [01:39:44.832 – 01:39:47.312] In the name of Jesus C., amen. [01:39:47.312 – 01:39:48.612] Amen. [01:39:48.612 – 01:39:49.772] Thank you, Ken. [01:39:49.772 – 01:39:49.782] Thank you, Ken.

[01:39:49.782 – 01:39:54.792] If you'd like to unmute yourself and show some appreciation for Ken once more, we'd apprec- do that. [01:39:54.792 – 01:39:55.292] Thank you. [01:39:55.292 – 01:39:56.131] Thank you, Ken. [01:39:56.131 – 01:39:56.282] Thank you. [01:39:56.282 – 01:39:57.572] Thank you so much. [01:39:57.572 – 01:39:58.332] Thank you. [01:39:58.332 – 01:39:59.192] Thank you, Ken.

[01:39:59.192 – 01:40:00.432] Yeah, great. [01:40:00.432 – 01:40:02.252] Great presentation. [01:40:02.252 – 01:40:02.342] Thank you. [01:40:02.342 – 01:40:02.343] Thank you, Ken. [01:40:02.343 – 01:40:03.702] Thank you, David, and team. [01:40:03.702 – 01:40:04.312] Thank you. [01:40:04.312 – 01:40:06.042] David, I think I'll take your hint.

[01:40:06.042 – 01:40:08.582] Now just to let people know that- Thank you … [01:40:08.582 – 01:40:08.652] thank you. [01:40:08.652 – 01:40:14.112] Just to let people know that this is still re- being recorded, so if you could just mind the language, we'd appreciate it. [01:40:14.112 – 01:40:18.712] But this is, we're finished and the first part of the meeting, we're going into the parking lot now. [01:40:18.712 – 01:40:24.512] So if anyone likes to get in and have a discussion, please come in. [01:40:24.512 – 01:40:25.972] Bert, are you wanting to jump in? [01:40:25.972 – 01:40:33.292] Yeah, I wanna jump in again, uh, 'cause he said something, and I just went to one of my books, but I don't know if this is the one he's talking about.

[01:40:33.292 – 01:40:36.652] Uh, Ken, I have Frank B.'s Secret. [01:40:36.652 – 01:40:39.232] Would that be enough, or is the one that you said… [01:40:39.232 – 01:40:41.272] What was the name of the one you said? [01:40:41.272 – 01:40:42.172] Okay. [01:40:42.172 – 01:40:50.632] I'm familiar with Frank B.: The Secret, and my dad, that dad spoke about, wrote about that, I believe, in the Oxford Group and Alcoholics Anonymous. [01:40:50.632 – 01:40:55.832] No, that's a different book, and the, um, it's not a bad book by any means. [01:40:55.832 – 01:40:56.612] It's good stuff.

[01:40:56.612 – 01:41:06.612] But as far as the most authoritative, definitive, uh, coverage of Frank B. and the Oxford Group, I recommend [01:41:06.612 – 01:41:12.552] the book that I talked about by Garth, G-A-R-T-H, Lean, L-E-A-N. [01:41:12.552 – 01:41:16.012] G-A-R-T-H Lean? [01:41:16.012 – 01:41:18.572] L- Lean, L-E-A-N. [01:41:18.572 – 01:41:22.612] Garth, G-A-R-T-H, Lean, L-E-A-N. [01:41:22.612 – 01:41:23.962] Thank you very much. [01:41:23.962 – 01:41:25.652] And, okay, and you got the titles, right?

[01:41:25.652 – 01:41:27.132] Yeah, I got the, I got the title. [01:41:27.132 – 01:41:31.472] Frank B.'s, um- Bert, you can send Ken a message if you wish as well. [01:41:31.472 – 01:41:32.792] He can give you all the details. [01:41:32.792 – 01:41:32.862] Right. [01:41:32.862 – 01:41:33.732] If you send him an email. [01:41:33.732 – 01:41:33.881] Yep. [01:41:33.881 – 01:41:35.232] It's in the chat, Bert, if you wanna…

[01:41:35.232 – 01:41:38.092] Or go to his, uh, website is there as well, or his blog. [01:41:38.092 – 01:41:38.472] Okay. [01:41:38.472 – 01:41:40.312] Ken, what's the details for the blog again? [01:41:40.312 – 01:41:41.832] Oh, okay. [01:41:41.832 – 01:41:43.372] Uh- Yeah … [01:41:43.372 – 01:41:44.332] may I put that… [01:41:44.332 – 01:41:44.971] Let's see here.

[01:41:44.971 – 01:41:45.132] Yeah. [01:41:45.132 – 01:41:45.552] Thank you. [01:41:45.552 – 01:41:50.412] Will you just put it in there if people wanna contact you about, if people are interested in this avenue. [01:41:50.412 – 01:41:51.552] Sure. [01:41:51.552 – 01:41:51.932] You bet. [01:41:51.932 – 01:41:52.552] Okay. [01:41:52.552 – 01:42:03.112] So the main, uh, kind of hub, uh, is at www.dickbeonrecovery.com,

[01:42:03.112 – 01:42:13.012] and then the blog that I mentioned in particular is dickbeonrecoveryblog.com. [01:42:13.012 – 01:42:13.142] Oh, yeah. [01:42:13.142 – 01:42:15.372] So they're, they're both in the, uh, chat. [01:42:15.372 – 01:42:16.752] All right. [01:42:16.752 – 01:42:17.892] Brilliant. [01:42:17.892 – 01:42:21.912] So I'll open up the chat as well if people want to contact you on the chat now. [01:42:21.912 – 01:42:22.872] So the chat is open.

[01:42:22.872 – 01:42:26.372] Please just be respec- I'm sure you will, but please just be respectful of that. [01:42:26.372 – 01:42:27.312] Thank you, everyone. [01:42:27.312 – 01:42:27.742] Thank you. [01:42:27.742 – 01:42:28.172] All right, y'all. [01:42:28.172 – 01:42:28.612] Good night. [01:42:28.612 – 01:42:29.072] I'm gone. [01:42:29.072 – 01:42:29.772] Later.

[01:42:29.772 – 01:42:31.152] See you, Bert. [01:42:31.152 – 01:42:38.032] So G., thank Gillem, you can send that out into the open if you wish now, Gillem. [01:42:38.032 – 01:42:39.592] Uh, fantastic meeting. [01:42:39.592 – 01:42:40.752] Thank you the other team members. [01:42:40.752 – 01:42:41.652] Thank you, Gillem. [01:42:41.652 – 01:42:42.372] Appreciate it. [01:42:42.372 – 01:42:51.432] Does anyone wanna open up, uh, a discussion topic, or just wanna tell me how wonderful we are?

[01:42:51.432 – 01:42:55.692] Oh, you're wonderful. [01:42:55.692 – 01:42:56.882] Thank you, friend. [01:42:56.882 – 01:42:58.252] You are wonderful. [01:42:58.252 – 01:42:59.212] Thank you, Elise. [01:42:59.212 – 01:43:00.372] Awesome, dude. [01:43:00.372 – 01:43:01.852] Thank you, Awesome. [01:43:01.852 – 01:43:03.012] I like Awesome, Larry T.

[01:43:03.012 – 01:43:04.052] from New York City. [01:43:04.052 – 01:43:04.712] Yay. [01:43:04.712 – 01:43:06.372] Take care, everybody. [01:43:06.372 – 01:43:07.412] Thank you, Larry. [01:43:07.412 – 01:43:07.742] Good to see- [01:43:08.756 – 01:43:08.866] See you. [01:43:08.866 – 01:43:10.736] See you Thursday I'm gonna head out, I think.

[01:43:10.736 – 01:43:13.936] I love you, David, and See you, Ken T. you, David. [01:43:13.936 – 01:43:14.876] I appreciate it. [01:43:14.876 – 01:43:15.516] God bless. [01:43:15.516 – 01:43:16.136] But cheers. [01:43:16.136 – 01:43:17.016] Thanks for dropping in. [01:43:17.016 – 01:43:17.836] Thank you, Ken. [01:43:17.836 – 01:43:18.656] Thank you.

[01:43:18.656 – 01:43:19.156] Aloha. [01:43:19.156 – 01:43:21.196] Thank you, Terry, Gift. [01:43:21.196 – 01:43:25.756] Now, we have that- As always, David Ah, Lola. [01:43:25.756 – 01:43:27.256] Bye, David. [01:43:27.256 – 01:43:27.796] Peace and friendship. [01:43:27.796 – 01:43:28.496] Lovely L.. [01:43:28.496 – 01:43:30.076] Lovely L..

[01:43:30.076 – 01:43:38.576] Now we have next week, if anyone's interest, not interested in that avenue, to go down in the AA's history, we, we have next week Ward B. [01:43:38.576 – 01:43:44.865] E., former chairman of the board of Alcoholics Anonymous and author of The 12 Steps to Religious-less Spirituality. [01:43:44.865 – 01:43:47.316] We're gonna go down this avenue next week. [01:43:47.316 – 01:43:54.976] "The 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous provides a spiritual program dramatically distinct from religion." This is, this is Ward B. [01:43:54.976 – 01:43:55.736] E. speaking. [01:43:55.736 – 01:43:59.276] "12 step spirituality is based on experience, not doctrine. [01:43:59.276 – 01:44:03.056] It is pragmatic, focusing on what works and not on theory.

[01:44:03.056 – 01:44:08.256] It is centered in a community that is inclusive, welcoming all who desire to stop drinking. [01:44:08.256 – 01:44:18.656] It seeks rigorous honesty, even when that honesty involves painful questioning, and it centers upon service to the still suffering alcoholic." [01:44:18.656 – 01:44:22.006] And I'm gonna be in dialogue, we're delighted to say, with Jay S.. [01:44:22.006 – 01:44:23.336] Right. [01:44:23.336 – 01:44:28.206] And just for, just what's coming up, um, what did I do? [01:44:28.206 – 01:44:29.636] I, I think I've done it backwards. [01:44:29.636 – 01:44:30.476] But- There you go …

[01:44:30.476 – 01:44:33.296] what we have coming up in June, let me just go back to May. [01:44:33.296 – 01:44:37.186] The, we have the Jungian theory straight after that, uh, with Jay S.. [01:44:37.186 – 01:44:38.466] Jay's gonna come back the following week. [01:44:38.466 – 01:44:42.136] He's gonna give us some insights into the Jungian connection, I guess. [01:44:42.136 – 01:44:44.876] And Patrick O., we're delighted to say. [01:44:44.876 – 01:44:47.016] We've all been having withdrawals since Patrick. [01:44:47.016 – 01:44:49.476] Patrick, you're gonna do, uh, on S..

[01:44:49.476 – 01:44:51.396] I'll just title it S. at the moment, Patrick. [01:44:51.396 – 01:44:57.996] I'll just title that S., and then you're gonna come back the following week and he's gonna be speaking on the roots of AA's traditions, Patrick. [01:44:57.996 – 01:44:59.396] I've titled that one at the moment. [01:44:59.396 – 01:45:01.936] I'm sure we can, you'll tell me what I need to put in there. [01:45:01.936 – 01:45:11.656] And the following week on the 10th, which is considered AA's founding, I just say that for what it's worth, we have the new thought, and that's gonna be a presentation by our Jim W.. [01:45:11.656 – 01:45:13.976] Always good to have Jim, listen to Jim. [01:45:13.976 – 01:45:22.196] And the following week we have a presentation on Hank, and that's, as we know, Hank P., and that's gonna be done by Chris J..

[01:45:22.196 – 01:45:28.616] And finally, in June, we have Smashing the Creation M. by the formidable, in my opinion, Mr. [01:45:28.616 – 01:45:29.516] Bill S.. [01:45:29.516 – 01:45:31.656] Smashing the Creation M.. [01:45:31.656 – 01:45:34.016] And, uh, I had you lady. [01:45:34.016 – 01:45:36.796] And the beginning of July- Yeah … [01:45:36.796 – 01:45:41.096] we have Lynn H., and he's gonna do a presentation on, uh, this is Eamon's, uh, friend. [01:45:41.096 – 01:45:43.196] Good, Eamon is endorsing this man all over.

[01:45:43.196 – 01:45:47.036] Uh, alcoholism: Is It R. a Disease, and if so, so what? [01:45:47.036 – 01:45:49.186] Eamon, do you wanna quickly just tell us what that's all about? [01:45:49.186 – 01:45:51.396] 'Cause you've been, you've seen that before, haven't you? [01:45:51.396 – 01:45:52.236] Yes, I have. [01:45:52.236 – 01:45:53.795] I sent you the, uh- You have? [01:45:53.795 – 01:45:55.076] I haven't, to bring it up yet. [01:45:55.076 – 01:45:55.556] Yeah.

[01:45:55.556 – 01:46:00.116] It's, it's a really, really, really good eye-opening, uh, presentation. [01:46:00.116 – 01:46:04.825] And it's, um, it can lead you to think about a l- a lot of things. [01:46:04.825 – 01:46:15.496] It's particularly about the spir- the, uh, physical aspect of alcoholism, whereas we deal gr- an awful lot in, in the fellowship, uh, uh, ob- obviously in recovery [01:46:15.496 – 01:46:19.056] about the, um, the spiritual recovery aspect. [01:46:19.056 – 01:46:20.656] But I think it's- The mental aspect, yeah … [01:46:20.656 – 01:46:30.816] very, very important to, to really have a look at the psycho- the physiological and neurological aspect of our illness. [01:46:30.816 – 01:46:36.396] And it's- So he goes into the obsession and, and the physical craving Oh, it's absolutely brilliant.

[01:46:36.396 – 01:46:46.616] And it w- you can go do- I mean, it, this has caused me to go into a lot of other stuff looking at, uh, like, uh, Swegen's, um, you know, the complexity of, of, [01:46:46.616 – 01:46:49.676] uh, alcoholism and, uh, a lot of other stuff. [01:46:49.676 – 01:46:50.866] It, it's tremendous. [01:46:50.866 – 01:46:51.476] Tremendous. [01:46:51.476 – 01:46:52.456] Thank you. [01:46:52.456 – 01:46:53.436] Thank, appreciate that, Eamon. [01:46:53.436 – 01:46:53.876] Thank you.

[01:46:53.876 – 01:46:56.316] And Jim, I think we said we're gonna do the 8th of July. [01:46:56.316 – 01:47:00.376] You're going to do, if you're still here, Jim W., we're doing, uh, the 8th of July. [01:47:00.376 – 01:47:01.105] I didn't put it in this. [01:47:01.105 – 01:47:02.635] For some reason I didn't put it in yet. [01:47:02.635 – 01:47:09.196] Uh, 75 years of, I know, just, uh, I think it's AA in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England. [01:47:09.196 – 01:47:10.696] That's right. [01:47:10.696 – 01:47:12.056] That's right.

[01:47:12.056 – 01:47:13.496] July 8th. [01:47:13.496 – 01:47:14.776] That's, that's right, Jim. [01:47:14.776 – 01:47:16.936] I just, for some reason I thought I did that already, actually. [01:47:16.936 – 01:47:19.816] And we're gonna hopefully have Jim back on the 15th. [01:47:19.816 – 01:47:22.316] I haven't, uh, we haven't got that yet, Jim. [01:47:22.316 – 01:47:22.816] News flash. [01:47:22.816 – 01:47:24.936] We're gonna have you back for two.

[01:47:24.936 – 01:47:26.855] The 15th of- July. [01:47:26.855 – 01:47:29.116] I don't know if you've been courted by someone else yet Oh, okay. [01:47:29.116 – 01:47:29.675] Yeah. [01:47:29.675 – 01:47:30.596] We, we- Oh, okay. [01:47:30.596 – 01:47:30.916] No. [01:47:30.916 – 01:47:31.156] Yeah. [01:47:31.156 – 01:47:32.626] And then Randy- No …

[01:47:32.626 – 01:47:33.836] Randy, I think Randy is gone. [01:47:33.836 – 01:47:39.716] Randy from, um, Canada is gonna do a presentation on, I think, the changes in the book, in the big book. [01:47:39.716 – 01:47:40.466] Yes. [01:47:40.466 – 01:47:41.176] I think that's what it's… [01:47:41.176 – 01:47:41.886] Is that what it's about? [01:47:41.886 – 01:47:42.096] Yeah. [01:47:42.096 – 01:47:42.626] Yeah.

[01:47:42.626 – 01:47:42.716] Yeah. [01:47:42.716 – 01:47:47.776] I, I revie- I've reviewed it ahead of time for his first presentation, yeah. [01:47:47.776 – 01:47:50.036] Oh, have you already, um, Hugh? [01:47:50.036 – 01:47:52.216] Major changes. [01:47:52.216 – 01:47:53.476] Major changes. [01:47:53.476 – 01:47:54.196] Fantastic. [01:47:54.196 – 01:47:59.796] So we're looking forward to getting that out, learning more, continually growing and understanding course and effectiveness.

[01:47:59.796 – 01:48:02.236] And, uh, hopefully we'll get some more of… [01:48:02.236 – 01:48:07.876] If anyone has any, um, speakers they've heard, let us, please let us know if you'd like us to put them on here. [01:48:07.876 – 01:48:08.996] We'd appreciate that as well. [01:48:08.996 – 01:48:12.016] And we, we'll try and get some of the other ones back as well. [01:48:12.016 – 01:48:15.446] So does anyone wanna jump in on anything that we heard tonight? [01:48:15.446 – 01:48:17.796] And remember, just please remember, we are recording. [01:48:17.796 – 01:48:22.916] If, if you want, I'll stop the recording, but, um, shall I stop the recording?

[01:48:22.916 – 01:48:24.596] Is that a good idea, do you think, at this point? [01:48:24.596 – 01:48:26.296] Do you think that journey needs that? [01:48:26.296 – 01:48:27.156] I think it is. [01:48:27.156 – 01:48:27.616] I think it is. [01:48:27.616 – 01:48:28.576] We've, we've had enough, haven't we? [01:48:28.576 – 01:48:30.296] We've had a w- yeah, yeah. [01:48:30.296 – 01:48:31.435] I see people are…

[01:48:31.435 – 01:48:31.816] Yeah, yeah. [01:48:31.816 – 01:48:33.056] We, we'll stop the recording