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[00:00:00.460 – 00:00:06.880] Nearly every one of these action steps recognizes itself can overcome self, and we have prayer in most of them. [00:00:06.880 – 00:00:13.780] And here we got it again in step eight, that if we're not willing, we ask God to help us be willing. [00:00:13.780 – 00:00:24.060] And I had a lot of difficulty in step eight and step nine because there's some people that had harmed me just as bad as I'd ever harmed them. [00:00:24.060 – 00:00:29.500] And I didn't feel it was going to be necessary for me to make any amends to them, and I didn't feel like I could, and I didn't want to. [00:00:29.500 – 00:00:32.340] And I told my sponsor about this. [00:00:32.340 – 00:00:43.580] He said, "Okay." He said, "What I'd like to see you do is take that list that you have and divide it into four lists." And [00:00:43.580 – 00:00:46.580] he said, "I'd like to see you put on one list right now.

[00:00:46.580 – 00:00:50.640] I'd like to see you put on another list later. [00:00:50.640 – 00:01:00.700] I'd like to see you put on another list maybe, and I'd like to see you put on another list never." Now he said, "Those that you [00:01:00.700 – 00:01:04.280] love and you want to make amends to them right now, put them on that list. [00:01:04.280 – 00:01:14.480] Those that you know you're going to do it sooner or later, but you're not too keen about it, put them on the later list." He said, "Those that you aren't sure about, [00:01:14.480 – 00:01:24.580] you may or may not, put them on the maybe list." And he said, or, "Put, put the second ones on the later and then put the third ones on the maybe list." And [00:01:24.580 – 00:01:35.180] he said, "Then those you're never going to make amends to, put them on the nevers list." And then he said, "I want you to start making your amends to the right nows." And [00:01:35.180 – 00:01:39.000] he said, "By the time you're through with that, you'll probably be ready to do some laters.

[00:01:39.000 – 00:01:49.000] And by the time you're through with the laters list, you'll probably be ready to do some maybes." And he reached in his billfold and got out a twenty dollar bill, and he said, "I'm going to [00:01:49.000 – 00:01:50.080] bet you twenty dollars. [00:01:50.080 – 00:01:57.020] By the time you're through with the maybes, you'll be ready to start on the nevers." And the old fool was exactly right. [00:01:57.020 – 00:02:05.720] You know, I was trying to block myself off entirely from step eight and nine by using three or four names, and he didn't let me do that. [00:02:05.720 – 00:02:12.260] He gave me a process by which I could become willing to make amends to them all eventually. [00:02:12.260 – 00:02:13.960] And it really did work for me. [00:02:13.960 – 00:02:19.280] So if you got that problem or you're working with somebody that got that problem, try the four list.

[00:02:19.280 – 00:02:23.700] Right now, later, maybe, and never. [00:02:23.700 – 00:02:25.019] And it really works. [00:02:25.019 – 00:02:26.620] Okay. [00:02:26.620 – 00:02:29.720] After we've got the list, we're willing. [00:02:29.720 – 00:02:34.840] Over on page seventy-seven, we begin to look at step nine. [00:02:34.840 – 00:02:39.480] Now, step nine is a definite three-part step. [00:02:39.480 – 00:02:43.360] The first part tells us the kind of amends to make.

[00:02:43.360 – 00:02:47.060] We made direct amends wherever possible. [00:02:47.060 – 00:02:55.120] Direct amends is probably eyeball to eyeball, face to face, one on one. [00:02:55.120 – 00:02:59.220] So he tells us the kind of amends to make, direct amends. [00:02:59.220 – 00:03:04.600] Then he tells us when to make them, wherever possible. [00:03:04.600 – 00:03:11.560] Then he tells us when not to make them, except when to do so would injure them or others. [00:03:11.560 – 00:03:17.800] Now, for the next three or four pages, he handles each one of these things paragraph by paragraph. [00:03:17.800 – 00:03:27.820] Page seventy-seven, that paragraph down in the middle of the page, it says, "We don't use this as an excuse for shying away from the

[00:03:27.820 – 00:03:30.080] subject of God when it would serve any good purpose. [00:03:30.080 – 00:03:40.080] We're willing to announce our convictions with tact and common sense." Now, the direct amends starts right here with the words, "The question of [00:03:40.080 – 00:03:43.400] how to approach the man we hated will arise." Let's look at this one. [00:03:43.400 – 00:03:53.860] I think in the area of the ninth step, especially since we're going to go out and make amends for the harm done, I think especially we need to talk to our sponsors and, and listen to our sponsors in this area [00:03:53.860 – 00:04:04.040] to get some information about how we're going to go about making these amends, because we can go out in our zeal to make amends and cause a whole lot more harm than we ever intended or had ever done prior to that, just trying [00:04:04.040 – 00:04:04.750] to make amends. [00:04:04.750 – 00:04:10.740] So check with your sponsor in this area, lay out how you're going to do it and what you propose to do, and see what he says.

[00:04:10.740 – 00:04:13.200] Very, very important. [00:04:13.200 – 00:04:16.019] See, the question of how to approach the man we hated will arise. [00:04:16.019 – 00:04:18.920] It may be he's done us more harm than we've done him. [00:04:18.920 – 00:04:24.140] And though, and though we may have acquired a better attitude toward him, we're still not too keen about admitting our faults. [00:04:24.140 – 00:04:27.820] Nevertheless, with a person we dislike, we take the bit in our teeth. [00:04:27.820 – 00:04:33.060] It's harder to go to an enemy than to a friend, but we find it much more beneficial to us. [00:04:33.060 – 00:04:39.180] We go to him in a helpful and forgiving spirit, confessing our former ill feelings and expressing our regret.

[00:04:39.180 – 00:04:42.820] Now, under no condition do we criticize such a person or argue. [00:04:42.820 – 00:04:47.720] Simply, we tell him that we will never get over drinking until we've done our utmost to straighten out the past. [00:04:47.720 – 00:04:55.040] We're there to sweep off our side of the street, realizing nothing worthwhile can be accomplished until we do so. [00:04:55.040 – 00:04:57.480] Never try to tell him what he should do. [00:04:57.480 – 00:05:01.340] His faults are not discussed, and we stick to our own. [00:05:01.340 – 00:05:05.880] Now, if our manner is calm, frank, and open, we would be gratified with the result. [00:05:05.880 – 00:05:08.820] In nine cases out of ten, the unexpected happens.

[00:05:08.820 – 00:05:14.760] Sometimes the man we are calling upon admits his own fault, so feuds of years standing melt away in an hour. [00:05:14.760 – 00:05:18.700] Rarely do we ma– do we fail to make satisfactory progress. [00:05:18.700 – 00:05:22.420] Our former enemies sometimes praise what we're doing and wish us well. [00:05:22.420 – 00:05:24.780] Occasionally, they will offer assistance. [00:05:24.780 – 00:05:28.340] It should not matter, however, if someone does throw us out of his office. [00:05:28.340 – 00:05:30.740] We've made our demonstration, done our part. [00:05:30.740 – 00:05:31.960] It's water over the dam.

[00:05:31.960 – 00:05:42.340] And every time I read that, I think about my cousin Gary, and I was in the area making amends at this time, and I was in this restaurant one day, and I've never been in that restaurant before or since. [00:05:42.340 – 00:05:48.200] And I looked up, and Gary was at the door waiting to be seated, and I motioned him over. [00:05:48.200 – 00:05:57.680] Now, he came over very reluctantly because Gary and I have been fighting and fussing and physically and verbally abusing each other all our life. [00:05:57.680 – 00:05:59.440] So he came over very reluctantly. [00:05:59.440 – 00:06:00.880] He wasn't quite sure what I might do. [00:06:00.880 – 00:06:04.332] And I asked him to sit down, and he did reluctantly. [00:06:04.332 – 00:06:14.352] And I said– looked at him and I said, "Gary, I've found out I'm an alcoholic, and I'm a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I'm trying to straighten out my life and trying to make amends for the harms that I've done

[00:06:14.352 – 00:06:14.612] people. [00:06:14.612 – 00:06:24.772] And I've harmed you a whole lot over these years, and I wanna ask you if you'll forgive me for that." Well, he kind of relaxed like that, and he said, "You know, Joe, I want to ask you if you'll forgive me the things [00:06:24.772 – 00:06:27.712] I've done to you." That whole deal went away just like that. [00:06:27.712 – 00:06:36.072] And that's a wonderful thing, but the best part about it is that Gary comes to Alcoholics Anonymous from time to time, even now. [00:06:36.072 – 00:06:36.982] Well, he's making progress. [00:06:36.982 – 00:06:40.592] He used to be a daily drinker, and now he's a, a s– uh, what do you call it? [00:06:40.592 – 00:06:41.172] A- Periodic.

[00:06:41.172 – 00:06:42.312] Periodic drinker, yeah. [00:06:42.312 – 00:06:43.992] So he's making progress. [00:06:43.992 – 00:06:51.672] But he comes to the group that I attend, and we sit down, and he'll– and we'll visit back and forth a little bit, as much as he will allow me to. [00:06:51.672 – 00:06:55.672] But had that not happened that many years ago, Gary would never have come to Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:06:55.672 – 00:06:57.372] Maybe someday he'll get sober. [00:06:57.372 – 00:06:57.912] I hope so. [00:06:57.912 – 00:07:02.412] Eyeball to eyeball, face-to-face, one-on-one.

[00:07:02.412 – 00:07:07.712] I think we gotta remember now the purpose of making the amends is not to get you to like me. [00:07:07.712 – 00:07:15.132] I hope you will when I'm through, but the purpose is to get rid of my fear, my guilt, and my remorse. [00:07:15.132 – 00:07:20.572] If I write you a letter, I'm not quite sure how you accepted it. [00:07:20.572 – 00:07:26.072] I'm still a little concerned about what you're gonna say and do the next time I run into you. [00:07:26.072 – 00:07:28.492] I'm not sure I've done my utmost. [00:07:28.492 – 00:07:31.912] If I call you on the telephone, I got the same situation. [00:07:31.912 – 00:07:42.252] But if I go to you wherever you are, your office, your home, or wherever it might be, and we sit down eyeball to eyeball, face-to-face, one-on-one,

[00:07:42.252 – 00:07:45.412] when I've made my amends, I'm through with it. [00:07:45.412 – 00:07:47.792] I'll never have to worry about it again. [00:07:47.792 – 00:07:53.432] You've done the ut– the worst you're gonna do to me right there, and I in turn have done my utmost. [00:07:53.432 – 00:07:55.712] No doubt that's the best way to do it. [00:07:55.712 – 00:08:02.692] Another kind of amend is in equal restitution or equal amounts. [00:08:02.692 – 00:08:07.811] You know, we tended to hurt a lot of people in, in the material area also. [00:08:07.811 – 00:08:11.892] Some of them, we stole from them and never did give them their money back.

[00:08:11.892 – 00:08:15.512] Some of them, we ran up bills that we never did pay. [00:08:15.512 – 00:08:18.992] We wrote hot checks that we never did pick up. [00:08:18.992 – 00:08:22.492] We tore up automobiles we never did fix. [00:08:22.492 – 00:08:26.452] We've hurt a lot of people in a lot of ways in the material world. [00:08:26.452 – 00:08:28.632] What are we gonna do about that? [00:08:28.632 – 00:08:38.712] It really wouldn't do much good for me to come to you and say, "Look, you and I both know I stole twelve hundred dollars from you when I was drinking, and [00:08:38.712 – 00:08:39.512] I'm sorry about it.

[00:08:39.512 – 00:08:43.692] Would you forgive me?" You probably gonna say, "I'm sorry about it too. [00:08:43.692 – 00:08:47.612] Where's my twelve hundred dollars?" Equal restitution. [00:08:47.612 – 00:08:50.012] Bill handles that in the next paragraph. [00:08:50.012 – 00:08:53.012] Most alcoholics owe money. [00:08:53.012 – 00:08:56.712] Now, that's probably the understatement of the year right there. [00:08:56.712 – 00:09:01.632] We do not dodge our creditors, tell them what we're trying to do. [00:09:01.632 – 00:09:03.392] We make no bones about our drinking.

[00:09:03.392 – 00:09:06.592] They usually know it anyway, whether we think so or not. [00:09:06.592 – 00:09:11.732] Nor are we afraid of disclosing our alcoholism on the theory it may cause financial harm. [00:09:11.732 – 00:09:16.592] Approached in this way, the most ruthless creditor will sometimes surprise us. [00:09:16.592 – 00:09:20.892] Arranging the best deal we can, we let these people know we are sorry. [00:09:20.892 – 00:09:23.532] Our drinking has made us slow to pay. [00:09:23.532 – 00:09:30.532] We must lose our fear of creditors, no matter how far we have to go, for we're liable to drink if we're afraid to face them. [00:09:30.532 – 00:09:40.552] And I think what he's saying to me is this, that if I owe you money for any reason, I need to come to you and say, "Look, I know I owe you

[00:09:40.552 – 00:09:42.772] the twelve hundred dollars, and you, you know it too. [00:09:42.772 – 00:09:46.192] And I'm trying to get my life straightened out. [00:09:46.192 – 00:09:56.312] I'm sorry I can't pay you that amount of money today, but what I'd like to do is start paying you five dollars a week, ten dollars a week, whatever [00:09:56.312 – 00:10:03.112] I can live with." And I start paying you that five or ten dollars a week or twenty or whatever we've decided on. [00:10:03.112 – 00:10:10.272] And as the weeks go by, some morning I wake up and I say, "Hey, that sucker's paid off. [00:10:10.272 – 00:10:15.212] I don't have to worry about that one anymore." The fear and the guilt and remorse is gone. [00:10:15.212 – 00:10:21.692] I go to the next one, and I say, "Now, you and I both know I owe you a couple thousand dollars.

[00:10:21.692 – 00:10:31.712] I can't pay you today, but I'd like to start paying you about twenty bucks a week." Then I start paying you twenty dollars a week, and some morning I wake up and I [00:10:31.712 – 00:10:41.792] say, "By golly, that sucker's paid off too." And then I go to the next one, and then the next one, and then the next one, and someday I wake up, and by golly, [00:10:41.792 – 00:10:42.852] they're all paid off. [00:10:42.852 – 00:10:46.012] And the fear and the guilt and remorse is gone. [00:10:46.012 – 00:10:52.252] I feel good back here in the back of my head now after that guilt and remorse and fear is gone. [00:10:52.252 – 00:10:57.172] Now, a guy came to me one time, and we were discussing this. [00:10:57.172 – 00:11:07.592] And he said, "Charlie, if I tried to pay them so much a week, do you know how old I'd be before I got them paid off?" I

[00:11:07.592 – 00:11:13.592] said, "You'll be the same age as you would be if you didn't pay them off." It don't make any difference. [00:11:13.592 – 00:11:20.832] You know, I've lived long enough to know that time is gonna pass. [00:11:20.832 – 00:11:23.532] I wish I could stop it, but I can't. [00:11:23.532 – 00:11:33.552] And as time passes, I can use it for a worthwhile purpose, do something about these things, or I can keep putting it off and putting [00:11:33.552 – 00:11:42.172] it off and putting it off, and five years or ten years or fifteen years from now still be in the same situation and maybe drunk in the meantime. [00:11:42.172 – 00:11:47.272] We have a good friend, used to live in Tulsa, moved out here to California. [00:11:47.272 – 00:11:48.072] He's gone now.

[00:11:48.072 – 00:11:48.532] He's dead. [00:11:48.532 – 00:11:49.572] Name was Dan. [00:11:49.572 – 00:11:59.612] When Dan was twenty-nine years sober, he said, "Charlie, I paid the last one of them last week." I said, "Dan, how do you feel?" He said, [00:11:59.612 – 00:12:04.462] "I feel about eight foot tall." Now, Dan was a little bitty fella, about five foot one. [00:12:04.462 – 00:12:14.692] He said, "This is the first time in my life that I can ever remember that I don't owe somebody something for what I've stolen in the past." [00:12:14.692 – 00:12:19.232] He said, "I feel pretty good about old Dan." Dan owed a lot of money. [00:12:19.232 – 00:12:25.672] When he was drinking, he was in the oil business down in Texas, and he hooked them, and he hooked them big.

[00:12:25.672 – 00:12:30.372] Took him twenty-nine years to pay them, but by golly, he got it done. [00:12:30.372 – 00:12:33.422] I tell you how good a con artist Dan was. [00:12:33.422 – 00:12:43.572] When he was still drinking in Texas, his wife, Sarah, who later became a beautiful member of Al-Anon, she took him to the state insane asylum in Big [00:12:43.572 – 00:12:47.732] Spring, Texas, to have him committed for alcoholic insanity. [00:12:47.732 – 00:12:56.712] The head psychiatrist interviewed Sarah, then he interviewed Dan, and after a while, Dan left and Sarah was locked up. [00:12:56.712 – 00:12:59.912] True. [00:12:59.912 – 00:13:01.552] She stayed there for a year.

[00:13:01.552 – 00:13:05.392] She learned how to live better electrically and all that goody-goody stuff in there. [00:13:05.392 – 00:13:07.952] Dan was a real con artist, Joe. [00:13:07.952 – 00:13:11.732] You know, Dan did, he, he, he paid back a lot of money. [00:13:11.732 – 00:13:15.492] It's not a lot of money out here in California, but in Oklahoma, it's a lot of money. [00:13:15.492 – 00:13:16.152] A hell of a lot of money. [00:13:16.152 – 00:13:16.572] Yeah. [00:13:16.572 – 00:13:18.072] You guys got plenty of money out here.

[00:13:18.072 – 00:13:20.092] We all know that. [00:13:20.092 – 00:13:30.092] But, uh, Dan paid them all back, and I, I spent many, many days and, and playing bridge with Dan and Sarah, and he and my wife, and they were, uh, teaching us [00:13:30.092 – 00:13:33.352] the program a lot and sharing with us, and they paid a lot of money back. [00:13:33.352 – 00:13:37.232] Now, you'd have thought the money, kind of money he paid back would have kept him broke, but it didn't. [00:13:37.232 – 00:13:38.672] He prospered in other ways. [00:13:38.672 – 00:13:47.312] He wasn't rich when he died, but he had a very comfortable living throughout all those years, and he prospered as a result of doing the right things with his debts. [00:13:47.312 – 00:13:51.112] And again, I hear some of you saying, I can hear awful good.

[00:13:51.112 – 00:13:52.752] He hears good. [00:13:52.752 – 00:13:58.372] I hear some of you saying, "Well, Charlie, that, that stuff's probably all right for twelve hundred dollars or two thousand or maybe ten thousand. [00:13:58.372 – 00:14:00.872] But what if it's a half a million? [00:14:00.872 – 00:14:03.192] What if it's a million? [00:14:03.192 – 00:14:04.112] What if it's two million? [00:14:04.112 – 00:14:07.412] Could we pay that back?" I don't know why not. [00:14:07.412 – 00:14:10.682] If we're smart enough to steal it- …

[00:14:10.682 – 00:14:13.471] we're probably smart enough to pay it back if we're willing to do so. [00:14:13.471 – 00:14:17.512] You know, I think we forget from step three on, God's with us. [00:14:17.512 – 00:14:22.972] And if we're willing to do these things, God's gonna make it possible to do so, just like he did for Dan. [00:14:22.972 – 00:14:27.052] Dan didn't die a rich man, but Dan died a very comfortable man. [00:14:27.052 – 00:14:31.492] God saw that Dan had the means to be able to pay these people back. [00:14:31.492 – 00:14:36.152] The willingness is what it takes to do this, and it really works for people like us. [00:14:36.152 – 00:14:46.172] On page seventy-nine, about the middle of the page, it talks about where other people are involved, and we need to really, really

[00:14:46.172 – 00:14:47.232] consider this now. [00:14:47.232 – 00:14:52.662] Sometimes in our zeal to be forgiven for the things we've done- [00:14:52.863 – 00:15:01.963] Past, we make amends where we end up hurting the one we owe amends to even more or possibly hurt somebody else. [00:15:01.963 – 00:15:07.103] And if we do that, then sooner or later we're gonna have to go back and make amends for that too. [00:15:07.103 – 00:15:11.233] So we have to be very, very careful whether other people are involved. [00:15:11.233 – 00:15:12.803] Over on page eighty. [00:15:12.803 – 00:15:22.863] There he had an example on page eighty where he, uh, he went to the people involved and got their permission to make the amend before

[00:15:22.863 – 00:15:26.523] he made it in order to be sure everything was gonna be okay. [00:15:26.523 – 00:15:31.403] Bottom of page eighty, he starts talking about domestic troubles. [00:15:31.403 – 00:15:35.283] Page eighty-one, he talks about sex outside of marriage. [00:15:35.283 – 00:15:37.243] What are we gonna do about those kind of things? [00:15:37.243 – 00:15:44.103] Very carefully he handles just about every conceivable situation that could come up. [00:15:44.103 – 00:15:54.103] You know, people I work with, usually we can find the answer to their amends as to whether they should make it or shouldn't and how to make [00:15:54.103 – 00:15:55.123] it here in the big book.

[00:15:55.123 – 00:15:58.263] Covers just about all situations. [00:15:58.263 – 00:16:04.523] The key thing, I think, and Joe said it a while ago, is get somebody else's advice. [00:16:04.523 – 00:16:14.543] You know, I've seen too many people jump into these amends too fast and not only hurt other people, but end up [00:16:14.543 – 00:16:18.743] destroying a family, destroying a relationship with another human being completely. [00:16:18.743 – 00:16:28.763] You know, I think that we should go to our sponsors, get their help, get their advice before we even start making these amends, [00:16:28.763 – 00:16:31.823] especially where it involves maybe hurting other people. [00:16:31.823 – 00:16:35.183] Page eighty-three, third paragraph.

[00:16:35.183 – 00:16:39.123] There may be some wrongs we could never fully right. [00:16:39.123 – 00:16:42.443] You know, some of these people are already dead and buried. [00:16:42.443 – 00:16:48.183] Some of them, to make the amends, would hurt them or others, and we can't do that. [00:16:48.183 – 00:16:53.823] We don't worry about them, and we can honestly say to ourselves that we would right them if we could. [00:16:53.823 – 00:16:56.583] Some people cannot be seen. [00:16:56.583 – 00:16:57.863] We send them an honest letter. [00:16:57.863 – 00:17:05.703] There may be a valid reason for postponement in some cases, but we don't delay if it can be avoided.

[00:17:05.703 – 00:17:10.823] We should be sensible, tactful, considerate, and humble without being servile or scraping. [00:17:10.823 – 00:17:13.663] As God's people, we stand on our feet. [00:17:13.663 – 00:17:15.443] We don't crawl before anyone. [00:17:15.443 – 00:17:22.103] You know, one mistake I see us making is we go to somebody and try to make our amends, and they don't accept it. [00:17:22.103 – 00:17:25.363] They didn't all accept mine. [00:17:25.363 – 00:17:28.673] Some of them said, "Charlie, we didn't like you when you were drinking. [00:17:28.673 – 00:17:31.243] Not too damn crazy about you now.

[00:17:31.243 – 00:17:41.403] We'd just as soon you get out of here and leave us alone." And when that happens to us, it just crushes us, and we tend to want to go back and go back and go back and literally beg those people [00:17:41.403 – 00:17:41.963] to forgive us. [00:17:41.963 – 00:17:44.303] We don't need to do that. [00:17:44.303 – 00:17:47.823] If they don't accept it, there's nothing we can do about that. [00:17:47.823 – 00:17:52.923] About all we can do is stand in readiness to make it at a later date if the opportunity comes up. [00:17:52.923 – 00:17:57.183] But we certainly do not have to crawl before anyone. [00:17:57.183 – 00:17:58.863] We are God's people, too.

[00:17:58.863 – 00:18:09.043] You know, as I said here this morning, and I came painfully aware, well, joyfully aware to me this year, all those situations that I used to have that I thought needed to make amends [00:18:09.043 – 00:18:09.943] are all taken care of. [00:18:09.943 – 00:18:11.622] I mean, every one of them. [00:18:11.622 – 00:18:14.683] And I tell you about two here this morning, if you will. [00:18:14.683 – 00:18:21.323] When I was drinking, I had a mobile home up, uh, north and west of Tulsa at a lake called Lake Keystone. [00:18:21.323 – 00:18:23.643] Didn't think my wife knew anything about it. [00:18:23.643 – 00:18:24.763] Nice place.

[00:18:24.763 – 00:18:33.673] And, uh, one morning in the middle of the night, there was a knock on the door, and I finally come to the door, and I op- I opened it up, and what she did, she just broke in. [00:18:33.673 – 00:18:34.803] Phyllis did. [00:18:34.803 – 00:18:37.103] And I really wasn't having a good time. [00:18:37.103 – 00:18:38.623] Embarrassed me in front of my girlfriend. [00:18:38.623 – 00:18:40.303] Yeah. [00:18:40.303 – 00:18:42.483] And our daughter. [00:18:42.483 – 00:18:44.243] She brought the daughter with her.

[00:18:44.243 – 00:18:46.403] I was not having a good time. [00:18:46.403 – 00:18:51.223] And now Gail, she was affected by my drinking, of course. [00:18:51.223 – 00:19:01.343] And she– when she was seventeen years old, just a few days after she was seventeen, she got married to get away from Phyllis and I, 'cause Phyllis is in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous now some twenty-three [00:19:01.343 – 00:19:03.003] years she's been sober, thank God. [00:19:03.003 – 00:19:05.303] But Gail was affected by this. [00:19:05.303 – 00:19:09.282] And I, and I– the book says a remorseful mumbling won't build the bill at all. [00:19:09.282 – 00:19:14.123] Well, of course, I tried to make a few amends verbally to Gail and, you know, that didn't…

[00:19:14.123 – 00:19:15.143] She, she said it's okay. [00:19:15.143 – 00:19:21.243] But it wasn't until six years ago, I was sober nineteen years and talking to Gail on the phone. [00:19:21.243 – 00:19:22.963] She was living up in Columbus, Ohio. [00:19:22.963 – 00:19:33.343] And she said, "Daddy, a, a thing happened here recently." Said her, her sister-in-law had died, and her husband had died unexpectedly and left two kids [00:19:33.343 – 00:19:34.483] for someone else to raise. [00:19:34.483 – 00:19:44.543] And she said, uh, "If something should happen like that to Jim," and I said, "Would you and Mom take the kids?" You know, that's when I knew that she really had forgiven me. [00:19:44.543 – 00:19:46.723] That's– it took nineteen years.

[00:19:46.723 – 00:19:48.723] A remorseful mumbling won't build the bill at all. [00:19:48.723 – 00:19:55.063] Now, I'm sober in Alcoholics Anonymous for two and a half years, and Phyllis and I get back together. [00:19:55.063 – 00:20:03.283] Nine years later, I'm standing in the back of the room and greeting people as they come in to, to the meeting place that night, and I looked around, and here's the lady of the mobile home incident. [00:20:03.283 – 00:20:05.862] Phyllis was at the coffee pot? [00:20:05.862 – 00:20:08.863] Phyllis at the coffee pot getting coffee, and she looked over their shoulder. [00:20:08.863 – 00:20:10.623] You know, it all happened just about that quick. [00:20:10.623 – 00:20:15.223] I, I believe you'll get an opportunity to handle all these situations.

[00:20:15.223 – 00:20:19.633] God makes it wherever possible. [00:20:19.633 – 00:20:23.443] And, uh, some of the guys was aware of this situation. [00:20:23.443 – 00:20:33.463] They said, "What did she say?" I said, "She didn't say anything for about a week." And we went to another meeting, and here's this lady, and she was trying to get sober and coming to AA. [00:20:33.463 – 00:20:35.903] And, uh, again at another meeting, and here's this lady. [00:20:35.903 – 00:20:37.503] And Phyllis began to talk ugly to me. [00:20:37.503 – 00:20:39.043] They'll do that, you know. [00:20:39.043 – 00:20:42.783] And I began to pay the price again.

[00:20:42.783 – 00:20:44.343] Began to feel bad about it again. [00:20:44.343 – 00:20:47.943] Well, after about two or three weeks of this, and one night she was settled down. [00:20:47.943 – 00:20:49.403] She'd come back down through the ceiling. [00:20:49.403 – 00:20:52.623] And we were able to talk about this. [00:20:52.623 – 00:20:57.123] And I said, "Phyllis, you know, I've already paid one hell of a price for this. [00:20:57.123 – 00:21:04.223] I mean, I have already paid one hell of a price physically, morally, spiritually, financially, in every way you can pay. [00:21:04.223 – 00:21:11.903] And, uh, what I'm trying to tell you is I'm not paying anymore." I says, "It's just like last month's gas bill.

[00:21:11.903 – 00:21:18.383] I paid that one, and I'm not paying that one no more." They'll let you pay forever if you'll pay. [00:21:18.383 – 00:21:22.503] There comes a time when you quit paying. [00:21:22.503 – 00:21:26.043] We don't have to crawl before anyone. [00:21:26.043 – 00:21:29.483] We make our amends to the best of our ability and go on about our business. [00:21:29.483 – 00:21:39.543] Okay, if you're right with God in one, two, and three, you're right with yourself in four, five, six, and seven, you're right with your fellow [00:21:39.543 – 00:21:40.743] man in eight and nine. [00:21:40.743 – 00:21:48.423] For the first time, as far back as we can remember, we're well in all three dimensions of life.

[00:21:48.423 – 00:21:53.823] We've been put back together as God intended for us to be in the first place. [00:21:53.823 – 00:21:58.463] Now, if you're well in all three dimensions of life, you're gonna feel pretty good. [00:21:58.463 – 00:22:01.123] I don't think it's by accident. [00:22:01.123 – 00:22:05.023] The very next thing are the promises. [00:22:05.023 – 00:22:09.883] They come immediately after this program of action. [00:22:09.883 – 00:22:12.903] Said we're painstaking about this phase of our development. [00:22:12.903 – 00:22:14.743] We'll be amazed before we're halfway through.

[00:22:14.743 – 00:22:16.363] Which phase of our development? [00:22:16.363 – 00:22:18.223] Well, the eight and nine phase. [00:22:18.223 – 00:22:19.003] Yeah. [00:22:19.003 – 00:22:20.943] We're gonna know a new freedom and a new happiness. [00:22:20.943 – 00:22:24.263] We will not regret the past, nor wish to shut the door on it. [00:22:24.263 – 00:22:27.683] We will comprehend the word serenity, and we will know peace. [00:22:27.683 – 00:22:32.043] No matter how far down the scale we've gone, we'll see how our experience can benefit others.

[00:22:32.043 – 00:22:35.363] That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. [00:22:35.363 – 00:22:39.743] We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. [00:22:39.743 – 00:22:41.903] Self-seeking will slip away. [00:22:41.903 – 00:22:44.922] Our whole, whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. [00:22:44.922 – 00:22:48.023] Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. [00:22:48.023 – 00:22:51.823] We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. [00:22:51.823 – 00:22:56.063] We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

[00:22:56.063 – 00:22:58.183] Are these extravagant promises? [00:22:58.183 – 00:22:59.163] We think not. [00:22:59.163 – 00:22:59.813] Praise God. [00:22:59.813 – 00:23:03.683] They're being fulfilled among us, sometimes quickly- Spiritual experience … [00:23:03.683 – 00:23:04.592] and sometimes slowly. [00:23:04.592 – 00:23:05.743] Spiritual awakening. [00:23:05.743 – 00:23:09.823] But they will always materialize if we work for them.

[00:23:09.823 – 00:23:19.843] You know, I've had some very horrendous hangovers in my time, and I know that you guys have, too, and I have thrown up sometimes of something horrendously, blood and all, in [00:23:19.843 – 00:23:20.703] my drinking career. [00:23:20.703 – 00:23:24.363] But you know, those kind of experiences never caused me to want to quit drinking. [00:23:24.363 – 00:23:31.163] What caused me wanting to quit drinking was the guilt, shame, and remorse that I had as a result of the harm that I did other people. [00:23:31.163 – 00:23:34.243] And these promises began to come about in my life. [00:23:34.243 – 00:23:37.923] They came about not in my body, but in my mind. [00:23:37.923 – 00:23:45.883] I began to experience these things in my mind, and I knew, of course, that the program was working for me, and I'm free of those things today, thank God.

[00:23:45.883 – 00:23:48.683] I'm gonna read them again. [00:23:48.683 – 00:23:58.843] I'm gonna add a few words to them, and the words I'm gonna add to them refer to the time when I was young, when alcohol was my friend, [00:23:58.843 – 00:24:04.013] when I could drink it and be Fred Astaire on the dance floor- … [00:24:04.013 – 00:24:07.263] and the world's greatest lover in the backseat of a '36 Chevrolet. [00:24:07.263 – 00:24:09.143] Wow. [00:24:09.143 – 00:24:13.843] This is the way alcohol used to make me feel before it turned against me. [00:24:13.843 – 00:24:18.143] Whenever I took a drink of alcohol, I knew a new freedom and a new happiness.

[00:24:18.143 – 00:24:23.423] Whenever I took a drink of alcohol, I did not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. [00:24:23.423 – 00:24:29.403] Whenever I took a drink of alcohol, I would comprehend the word serenity, and I would know peace. [00:24:29.403 – 00:24:36.553] Whenever I took a drink of alcohol, no matter how far down the scale I had gone, I could see how my experience would benefit others. [00:24:36.553 – 00:24:43.423] Whenever I took a drink of alcohol, that feeling of uselessness and self-pity would disappear. [00:24:43.423 – 00:24:49.603] Whenever I took a drink of alcohol, I would lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in my fellows. [00:24:49.603 – 00:24:53.863] Whenever I took a drink of alcohol, self-seeking would slip away. [00:24:53.863 – 00:24:59.323] Whenever I took a drink of alcohol, my whole attitude and outlook upon life would change.

[00:24:59.323 – 00:25:05.182] Whenever I took a drink of alcohol, fear of people and economic insecurity would leave me. [00:25:05.182 – 00:25:06.712] Ooh. [00:25:06.712 – 00:25:11.423] Whenever I took a drink of alcohol, I would intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle me. [00:25:11.423 – 00:25:19.343] Whenever I took a drink of alcohol, I would suddenly realize that alcohol was doing for me what I could not do for myself. [00:25:19.343 – 00:25:21.863] Now, think about that a moment. [00:25:21.863 – 00:25:25.133] My God, no wonder I loved to drink. [00:25:25.133 – 00:25:35.143] When you find anything that will do that much for you, you immediately become mentally addicted to the use

[00:25:35.143 – 00:25:36.283] of it, whatever it is. [00:25:36.283 – 00:25:42.063] If it had been chocolate ice cream, my God, I would've been addicted to chocolate ice cream. [00:25:42.063 – 00:25:45.963] If it had been Hostess Twinkies, it would've been Hostess Twinkies. [00:25:45.963 – 00:25:48.723] If it had been gambling, it would've been gambling. [00:25:48.723 – 00:25:49.943] Mine was alcohol. [00:25:49.943 – 00:25:59.523] Alcohol did for me what I could not do for myself, and it was my friend, and it worked for me like magic for years. [00:25:59.523 – 00:26:09.583] But one day, alcohol turned against me, and all the things I was afraid would happen to me now began to happen because of the alcohol

[00:26:09.583 – 00:26:10.203] itself. [00:26:10.203 – 00:26:13.683] I became a very, very confused individual. [00:26:13.683 – 00:26:23.743] Not knowing I was alcoholic, not knowing I would never be able to recapture these feelings from alcohol, I spent the last [00:26:23.743 – 00:26:29.683] four, five, six years of my drinking desperately trying to get these things back from alcohol. [00:26:29.683 – 00:26:32.523] Almost destroyed me in the process. [00:26:32.523 – 00:26:34.763] I came to AA. [00:26:34.763 – 00:26:36.963] You gave me a book.

[00:26:36.963 – 00:26:40.403] I found a little program of action in this book. [00:26:40.403 – 00:26:42.983] I began to apply it in my life. [00:26:42.983 – 00:26:53.223] And one day, I woke up and found these promises in my head, and I suddenly realized that the first nine steps of Alcoholics [00:26:53.223 – 00:27:01.643] Anonymous are doing just exactly for me what alcohol used to do for me when alcohol was my friend. [00:27:01.643 – 00:27:04.863] You see, that's why I don't drink today. [00:27:04.863 – 00:27:08.883] If I hadn't found this somewhere, I would still be searching for it. [00:27:08.883 – 00:27:14.743] I would probably have gone back to alcohol until eventually it completely consumed me and destroyed me.

[00:27:14.743 – 00:27:22.203] But I don't need to drink because I found everything good that alcohol gave me through the first nine steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:27:22.203 – 00:27:26.823] That's the miracle of Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:27:26.823 – 00:27:36.603] And at the same time I realized it's given me the good, I also realized the first nine steps have never turned against me as alcohol did. [00:27:36.603 – 00:27:40.703] I've never been placed in jail because of the first nine steps. [00:27:40.703 – 00:27:46.343] No lady has ever drug me through a divorce court because of the first nine steps. [00:27:46.343 – 00:27:49.243] I've never vomited. [00:27:49.243 – 00:27:53.623] Damn near did a time or two, but I've never really vomited because of the first nine steps.

[00:27:53.623 – 00:27:54.723] You see, that's the miracle. [00:27:54.723 – 00:27:59.363] And if you read those promises, you'll notice they all deal with the mind. [00:27:59.363 – 00:28:01.923] None of them deal with the body. [00:28:01.923 – 00:28:10.043] We came here restless, irritable, discontented, filled with shame, fear, guilt, remorse, worry, anger, depression, and et cetera. [00:28:10.043 – 00:28:13.323] We've worked the steps. [00:28:13.323 – 00:28:14.863] We received the promises. [00:28:14.863 – 00:28:19.343] Certainly, we have undergone a change in our personality.

[00:28:19.343 – 00:28:23.183] We have undergone a spiritual awakening already. [00:28:23.183 – 00:28:27.533] Now, if that's true, then what's the purpose of the last three steps? [00:28:27.533 – 00:28:33.323] And many people will tell us the last three steps are to maintain our sobriety. [00:28:33.323 – 00:28:40.843] I will agree that they will help us stay sober, but the word maintenance itself is a misnomer. [00:28:40.843 – 00:28:45.463] To maintain something means to keep it as is. [00:28:45.463 – 00:28:48.763] And another natural law applies. [00:28:48.763 – 00:28:53.783] Nothing in our universe ever stays as is.

[00:28:53.783 – 00:28:57.803] Everything in our universe is in a constant state of change. [00:28:57.803 – 00:29:01.423] It's either growing or it's dying. [00:29:01.423 – 00:29:04.703] It's progressing or it's regressing. [00:29:04.703 – 00:29:07.533] It's going forward or it's going back. [00:29:07.533 – 00:29:13.403] Now, we've made a tremendous amount of spiritual growth through the first nine steps if we've got the promises. [00:29:13.403 – 00:29:23.503] But if we tried to maintain this, eventually we start slipping back and we start having trouble with people, then with ourself, [00:29:23.503 – 00:29:26.583] then with God, and we end up drunk all over again.

[00:29:26.583 – 00:29:27.603] Now, how do I know that? [00:29:27.603 – 00:29:33.983] I see it happening over and over and over again. [00:29:33.983 – 00:29:39.163] That's what happens when people like us who have had a good program go back and get drunk again. [00:29:39.163 – 00:29:41.423] It's because we stopped growing. [00:29:41.423 – 00:29:43.463] And you can't stop growing. [00:29:43.463 – 00:29:44.943] If you do, you start dying.