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[00:00:02.700 – 00:00:03.540] So good evening, everyone. [00:00:03.540 – 00:00:13.560] My name is David, and I'm an alcoholic, and you're all very welcome to this reading book meeting on Zoom, hosted by the Growing and Understanding AA Group, where we read a chapter of Writing the [00:00:13.560 – 00:00:20.560] Big Book: The Creation of AA every week, uh, with the author Bill S. in attendance, and we will be doing some Q&A at the end. [00:00:20.560 – 00:00:22.700] Jim, do you wanna mention something about the Q&A? [00:00:22.700 – 00:00:23.840] Jim W., that is. [00:00:23.840 – 00:00:24.440] Yeah. [00:00:24.440 – 00:00:27.320] My name is Jim, and, uh, and I'm an alcoholic.

[00:00:27.320 – 00:00:30.840] And, and, uh, I'll be around for the Q&A later on. [00:00:30.840 – 00:00:39.100] We wanna stick, uh, stick to the, uh, topic that we're talking about and the time we're talking about, not just general discussion. [00:00:39.100 – 00:00:44.960] But, uh, you know, we're Writing the Big Book, and this week it's about the testimonials in, uh, in the Big Book. [00:00:44.960 – 00:00:48.510] So we'll see you later, uh, afterwards for the Q&A. [00:00:48.510 – 00:00:50.160] Thank you, Jim. [00:00:50.160 – 00:00:54.160] Uh, just to let people know that Jim is gonna do a talk for my home group tomorrow night. [00:00:54.160 – 00:00:56.280] I might as well use this quickly, Jim, if you would please.

[00:00:56.280 – 00:01:05.920] I know we're in a different group, but, uh, Jim is doing a talk tomorrow night on Bill W., the beginning of a trilogy of Bill W., 1951 to 1971, the man, the writer, and the seeker. [00:01:05.920 – 00:01:07.440] And tomorrow, Jim, Jim, over to you. [00:01:07.440 – 00:01:08.900] Yeah. [00:01:08.900 – 00:01:14.200] This is a three-part, uh, series, and, uh, first part, uh, is tomorrow. [00:01:14.200 – 00:01:19.780] The idea is to look at Bill W., uh, not Bill W. [00:01:19.780 – 00:01:29.900] but Bill W., uh, a little more as a human being with his own, uh, personal, uh, personal life and outside issues as well [00:01:29.900 – 00:01:31.460] and, uh, things that we did…

[00:01:31.460 – 00:01:34.920] that he did outside of, uh, outside of AA. [00:01:34.920 – 00:01:36.540] So, uh, I hope… [00:01:36.540 – 00:01:38.240] We, we hope to see you there tomorrow. [00:01:38.240 – 00:01:40.060] Thank you for that, Jim. [00:01:40.060 – 00:01:48.100] And just to let people know that it is a trilogy, and the following week he'll be on part two, and he's looking at, uh, trans- transcendental meditation. [00:01:48.100 – 00:01:50.960] And, and you can see sex there, vitamin B, and niacin. [00:01:50.960 – 00:01:56.060] And part three will be dealing with politics, religion, and whiskey, and that's from Bill W..

[00:01:56.060 – 00:01:57.340] Brilliant. [00:01:57.340 – 00:01:59.380] And just to say next week I've got Riley K. [00:01:59.380 – 00:02:04.520] is gonna do the reading for us next week here, uh, on, on the next chapter, which is chapter 12. [00:02:04.520 – 00:02:07.440] And we're delighted to say that Riley's gonna be doing that with, uh, Bill… [00:02:07.440 – 00:02:08.300] He's gonna… [00:02:08.300 – 00:02:16.560] Bill out of Oregon is gonna be doing the footnotes for us, so we're delighted to have the Oregonians, I think is the term we use next week on this, on this chapter. [00:02:16.560 – 00:02:22.220] So that's chapter 12 next week, The Alcoholic Foundation, and that'll be in August 1938, with Riley K.

[00:02:22.220 – 00:02:23.440] out of Oregon and Bill K. [00:02:23.440 – 00:02:24.240] out of Oregon. [00:02:24.240 – 00:02:33.080] And this one on the screen, as you can see, is recovery speakers next Tuesday night, a history meeting on Zoom M. 1st at 9:00 PM Eastern S. Time. [00:02:33.080 – 00:02:41.140] And Patrick O'Donnell, who's a staunch, uh, member of this group who comes along regularly here, Pat is gonna be doing a talk on Samuel M. [00:02:41.140 – 00:02:50.480] S., one of God's non-alcoholic hands in, in the forming of Alcoholics Anonymous, and that's, as I said, next Tuesday, uh, March 1st at 9:00 PM. [00:02:50.480 – 00:02:53.940] If you want any more details on them, I'd be delighted to pass them on to you in the chat. [00:02:53.940 – 00:02:54.620] Okay.

[00:02:54.620 – 00:02:55.120] Enough of that. [00:02:55.120 – 00:02:56.280] Thank you very much, everyone. [00:02:56.280 – 00:03:06.060] Just to let you know that this group, each group, should I say, ought to be a spiritual entity having but one primary purpose, and that of course is to carry its message to the alcoholics who are still suffering. [00:03:06.060 – 00:03:16.140] So in keeping within the spirit of, uh, the traditions, the main purpose of these reading book meetings is to improve our understanding of the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, and the [00:03:16.140 – 00:03:20.100] message contained in the book titled Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:03:20.100 – 00:03:25.380] And of course, as I said, the book we're reading is Writing the Big Book: The Creation of, uh, AA by William S.. [00:03:25.380 – 00:03:33.540] And today we're on, uh, chapter 11, Chasing T., and we're in July 19- I'm sorry, David.

[00:03:33.540 – 00:03:34.720] Uh, you got muted. [00:03:34.720 – 00:03:36.720] I got muted. [00:03:36.720 – 00:03:39.640] Um, I don't know how far to go back, but anyway, we… [00:03:39.640 – 00:03:44.140] The book we've chosen for our first endeavor is Writing the Big Book: The Creation of AA by William S.. [00:03:44.140 – 00:03:47.420] I'm delighted to say our guest reader today is Jackie B. [00:03:47.420 – 00:03:49.170] Delighted to have Jackie here, and Riley K. [00:03:49.170 – 00:03:52.140] out of Oregon is gonna be doing the footnotes again for us.

[00:03:52.140 – 00:03:54.540] Delighted to have Riley here again for that. [00:03:54.540 – 00:03:57.580] And as I said, Riley will be doing the main reading for us next week. [00:03:57.580 – 00:04:07.680] Uh, what we do at the beginning of these meetings is, uh, we have a little saying of the set aside prayer, a short version of the set aside prayer, just of course to get into the language of the heart, which we know [00:04:07.680 – 00:04:09.600] is, uh, is language. [00:04:09.600 – 00:04:12.820] Uh, we speak the language of the heart through modem to modem or in the rooms. [00:04:12.820 – 00:04:15.920] So using God as you understand him, uh, God… [00:04:15.920 – 00:04:18.000] If you'd like to unmute, I should say.

[00:04:18.000 – 00:04:18.380] Thank you. [00:04:18.380 – 00:04:19.000] Please. [00:04:19.000 – 00:04:23.000] Help me to a set aside. [00:04:23.000 – 00:04:23.050] Please G.. [00:04:23.050 – 00:04:24.890] Everything I think, I feel, I know and hope. [00:04:24.890 – 00:04:28.419] Set aside everything I think, I feel, I know and hope. [00:04:28.419 – 00:04:30.690] Open my mind that I may be open-minded.

[00:04:30.690 – 00:04:30.720] Open my mind that I may be open-minded. [00:04:30.720 – 00:04:31.480] Thank you, everyone. [00:04:31.480 – 00:04:40.740] We'll just have a few moments silence to gather our thoughts, reflect on why we're here, and think of those alcoholics and their family members who have yet to find a solution to alcoholism. [00:04:40.740 – 00:04:44.600] Amen. [00:04:44.600 – 00:04:47.300] I should of course say a spiritual solution. [00:04:47.300 – 00:04:49.020] Don't worry about it. [00:04:49.020 – 00:04:52.110] Let me If you'd like to unmute yourselves up.

[00:04:52.110 – 00:04:53.800] We'll mute everyone up, Jim, and then we'll start again. [00:04:53.800 – 00:04:56.220] Uh, Jackie, I'll make you a co-host, so you can… [00:04:56.220 – 00:04:58.410] If anything happens, you can do that for us. [00:04:58.410 – 00:04:59.090] Delighted to have you here. [00:04:59.090 – 00:05:01.500] Jackie, the next voice you will be hearing is Jackie B. [00:05:01.500 – 00:05:04.300] in, in San Francisco, and we will have… [00:05:04.300 – 00:05:05.969] You can follow Jackie on…

[00:05:05.969 – 00:05:10.360] If you haven't got the book yet, uh, we've been putting it up on the Kindle edition, and I will put that up. [00:05:10.360 – 00:05:11.860] Jackie, we follow you of course. [00:05:11.860 – 00:05:12.700] It's all yours. [00:05:12.700 – 00:05:13.400] Over to you, Jackie. [00:05:13.400 – 00:05:15.520] Thank you. [00:05:15.520 – 00:05:17.620] Hi, my name is Jackie B. [00:05:17.620 – 00:05:18.740] from San Francisco.

[00:05:18.740 – 00:05:20.400] How is the quality of my audio? [00:05:20.400 – 00:05:21.550] I'm using earbuds [00:05:21.796 – 00:05:22.156] Quality. [00:05:22.156 – 00:05:23.456] That's plastic Great. [00:05:23.456 – 00:05:24.836] Oh, fantastic. [00:05:24.836 – 00:05:25.256] Okay. [00:05:25.256 – 00:05:27.975] Well, I'm very, very honored to be here.

[00:05:27.975 – 00:05:35.216] Thank you so much for inviting me to be a reader, and, um, Bill S-, um, is… [00:05:35.216 – 00:05:38.316] I'm, I'm very happy to call him a friend and a mentor. [00:05:38.316 – 00:05:42.996] And I, uh, I met Bill through the symposium on AA history. [00:05:42.996 – 00:05:50.916] I'm the outgoing chair now after many years and, um, it's, it's a real pleasure, and this book is such a gift to all of us. [00:05:50.916 – 00:05:52.156] All right. [00:05:52.156 – 00:05:55.956] Uh, are we on chapter 11 or 12? [00:05:55.956 – 00:05:58.396] Um, 11.

[00:05:58.396 – 00:06:02.896] I had chapter 11, but I see chapter 12 in the Kindle, so. [00:06:02.896 – 00:06:04.416] Thank you, Jackie. [00:06:04.416 – 00:06:04.546] And thank you. [00:06:04.546 – 00:06:05.116] Apologies. [00:06:05.116 – 00:06:07.006] Apologies. [00:06:07.006 – 00:06:08.256] No, no problem. [00:06:08.256 – 00:06:08.935] I do apologize.

[00:06:08.935 – 00:06:09.926] I apologize. [00:06:09.926 – 00:06:11.236] I was, I was getting that ready for next week. [00:06:11.236 – 00:06:12.236] I got ahead of myself. [00:06:12.236 – 00:06:12.896] Well, there you go. [00:06:12.896 – 00:06:13.796] That's a good excuse. [00:06:13.796 – 00:06:14.316] There you go. [00:06:14.316 – 00:06:16.436] It's a, it's a good number, right?

[00:06:16.436 – 00:06:18.046] So- … [00:06:18.046 – 00:06:22.136] that's probably why you would- Chasing testimonials, July 1938 with Jackie B in San Francisco. [00:06:22.136 – 00:06:23.896] Woo-hoo. [00:06:23.896 – 00:06:24.736] All right. [00:06:24.736 – 00:06:27.826] Chasing testimonials, July 1938. [00:06:27.826 – 00:06:37.966] Before actually approaching any more new prospects for money, Bill decided he should first solicit some favorable medical opinions about [00:06:37.966 – 00:06:42.096] the work they were doing and about the two chapters already written.

[00:06:42.096 – 00:06:52.096] These testimonials could then be used to create a solid professional foundation for the appeals he would be making to prospects on the list of millionaires given him by Willard [00:06:52.096 – 00:06:52.896] R.. [00:06:52.896 – 00:06:53.356] Footnote. [00:06:53.356 – 00:06:56.876] That's an end note. [00:06:56.876 – 00:06:59.316] We just, we just do footnotes, Jackie. [00:06:59.316 – 00:07:00.216] That's an end note. [00:07:00.216 – 00:07:01.406] Oh, that's an end note.

[00:07:01.406 – 00:07:02.276] Apologies. [00:07:02.276 – 00:07:02.576] Okay. [00:07:02.576 – 00:07:12.616] On J. 1st, he and Fitz M. left Brooklyn, taking the train down to Maryland for what would be the first leg of an 11-day road trip [00:07:12.616 – 00:07:17.916] in search of S. endorsements from some of the nation's most important doctors and psychiatrists. [00:07:17.916 – 00:07:19.375] Fitz M.. [00:07:19.375 – 00:07:29.576] John H. Fitzhugh M., at this time more than two and a half years sober, was the second most important man after Hank P., [00:07:29.576 – 00:07:38.076] helping Bill W. with the work on the East C., and his name is frequently mentioned in Frank A.' correspondence and notes during this time.

[00:07:38.076 – 00:07:48.226] Despite the fact that Fitz lived in Cumberland, Maryland, 15 miles south of An- Annapolis and 30 miles due east of Washington, [00:07:48.226 – 00:07:52.416] D.C., he had become one of Bill's closest and most trusted friends. [00:07:52.416 – 00:08:01.136] Off by himself in Maryland, Fitz today would be called a loner, someone staying sober without the help of a nearby AA group. [00:08:01.136 – 00:08:10.156] But he tempered his isolation by frequently traveling 230 miles north to stay with Bill and Lois in Brooklyn. [00:08:10.156 – 00:08:20.356] For their own part, the W. returned the favor by visiting Fitz and his family at Cumberland with such regularly that Lois could say, [00:08:20.356 – 00:08:26.476] with just a bit of exaggeration, that she and Bill had practically commuted to his home in Maryland. [00:08:26.476 – 00:08:28.696] Okay.

[00:08:28.696 – 00:08:33.296] As B. W.'s other early stalwart in AA- There, there's a footnote there. [00:08:33.296 – 00:08:34.456] Oh, apologies. [00:08:34.456 – 00:08:35.366] Just to clarify- Go ahead … [00:08:35.366 – 00:08:36.566] Jackie, it's the one with the asterisks. [00:08:36.566 – 00:08:38.176] I do apologize, but I needed to say that to you. [00:08:38.176 – 00:08:41.096] It's the, it's the ones with the asterisks on it, Jackie, just to let you know. [00:08:41.096 – 00:08:42.016] Okay.

[00:08:42.016 – 00:08:42.266] Got it. [00:08:42.266 – 00:08:46.576] And i- and if it's okay, Riley will jump in if, if- Yeah, I jump in if, if they get missed. [00:08:46.576 – 00:08:56.856] So there are ample entries in Lois's diary and numerous references to Maryland travel in the letters between Lois and Bill to lend some credence [00:08:56.856 – 00:08:57.776] to this statement. [00:08:57.776 – 00:09:05.956] As B. W.'s other early stalwart in AA, Fitz M. could hardly have been more different than Henry G. [00:09:05.956 – 00:09:06.836] P.. [00:09:06.836 – 00:09:10.976] The two men were, in fact, almost polar opposites.

[00:09:10.976 – 00:09:21.076] Hank was a loud, confident, high-energy man of action, and Fitz was a charming, aesthetic, impractical, level- lovable [00:09:21.076 – 00:09:21.556] dreamer. [00:09:21.556 – 00:09:31.636] While F. was subject to spells of lethargy and depressive bouts of self-pity, Hank's emotional life revolved around his boisterous [00:09:31.636 – 00:09:34.056] enthusiasm and seething resentment. [00:09:34.056 – 00:09:39.595] The two men also stood at opposite ends of the critical debate over religion in AA. [00:09:39.595 – 00:09:49.516] Hank was something of a deist, while Fitz had returned to the Episcopalian faith of his minister father, and he had done so with a deep and abiding commitment. [00:09:49.516 – 00:09:57.276] His faith in God was unshakable, and his conviction that God was responsible for the gift of his sobriety unquestioned.

[00:09:57.276 – 00:10:06.336] M.'s dreamy, impractical nature is evident in the checkered business life he led before getting sober at the age of 38. [00:10:06.336 – 00:10:12.746] His first job was in the accounting department of a large company, where he was responsible for collecting receivables. [00:10:12.746 – 00:10:18.276] Having lost that job, he moved on to try his hand as a traveling salesman. [00:10:18.276 – 00:10:25.216] He then became a real estate salesman, and after that, a teacher at a boys' school in Norfolk, Virginia. [00:10:25.216 – 00:10:35.086] Failing at that, he finally decided to become a farmer, working a plot of land at Cumberland, which was near his original hometown in Maryland. [00:10:35.086 – 00:10:39.936] Fitz's married life was fraught with similar ups and downs. [00:10:39.936 – 00:10:43.206] Married in 1921, he and his wife Elizabeth had-

[00:10:43.472 – 00:10:45.712] Three children over the next 10 years. [00:10:45.712 – 00:10:54.092] But their relationship was hardly a smooth one, an understandable situation given his increasingly morose drunken habits. [00:10:54.092 – 00:11:04.492] But even after he quit drinking in late 1935, Fitz candidly admitted that members of the family continued to annoy him, and marital discord [00:11:04.492 – 00:11:08.732] seemed to be more the rule than the exception in the M. household. [00:11:08.732 – 00:11:17.752] While sober, he once abandoned his wife at home sick to board a train after being unkind to her in leaving. [00:11:17.752 – 00:11:28.092] In his Big Book story, Our S. Friend, Fitz relates an incident similar to this, confessing in his first person present tense narrative, [00:11:28.092 – 00:11:30.972] "Things are not going so well at home.

[00:11:30.972 – 00:11:34.612] I'm learning that I cannot have my own way as I used to. [00:11:34.612 – 00:11:36.852] I blame my wife and children. [00:11:36.852 – 00:11:41.112] Anger possesses me, anger such as I have never felt before. [00:11:41.112 – 00:11:42.892] I will not stand for it. [00:11:42.892 – 00:11:48.092] I pack my bags and leave," and goes to stay with understanding friends. [00:11:48.092 – 00:11:58.132] In all likelihood, those understanding friends were the W., who found themselves deeply enmeshed in the Mayos' marital problems on more than a few [00:11:58.132 – 00:11:59.892] occasions over the years.

[00:11:59.892 – 00:12:09.932] In F. of 1938, four months before this July road trip, Lois had written to Bill, who was then visiting at Cumberstone, "Why [00:12:09.932 – 00:12:12.452] don't you bring Fitz back with you and come home soon? [00:12:12.452 – 00:12:22.772] The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that Fitz ought not to live at home yet, that he isn't yet ready to tackle the family, that they are all happier when he is away [00:12:22.772 – 00:12:33.332] and he himself a different man." Three weeks later, Lois was herself on an extended trip to Cumberstone, and she wrote Bill that she had just told Elizabeth [00:12:33.332 – 00:12:42.612] how fine Fitz was doing, and in spite of wanting him better, it probably hurt her to think he is fine as soon as he gets away from home. [00:12:42.612 – 00:12:53.151] Despite his two and a half years of sobriety, Fitz M. had not yet acquired enough emotional stability or resiliency to successfully [00:12:53.151 – 00:12:55.772] navigate the turmoil of his family life.

[00:12:55.772 – 00:13:02.452] Nor was Fitz successful in getting people sober using the methods he had learned in New York. [00:13:02.452 – 00:13:10.852] Back in Maryland, he desperately missed the Brooklyn F. and did his best to recreate the same type of community on a local level. [00:13:10.852 – 00:13:14.632] But it wasn't working for him, and it wasn't working for others. [00:13:14.632 – 00:13:19.092] "A man calls me on the phone," he recounts in his Big Book story. [00:13:19.092 – 00:13:23.152] "Will I take a young fellow who has been drinking for two weeks to live with me? [00:13:23.152 – 00:13:28.572] Soon I have others who are alcoholics and some who have other problems. [00:13:28.572 – 00:13:30.212] I begin to play God.

[00:13:30.212 – 00:13:32.252] I feel that I can fix them all. [00:13:32.252 – 00:13:42.392] I do not fix anyone." Abandoning his attempts to sober up people at home, one can only imagine how much this must have aggravated his [00:13:42.392 – 00:13:45.362] already unstable family situation. [00:13:45.362 – 00:13:51.532] By M. 1937, Fitz was trying to run a mission in the nearby town of Shadyside. [00:13:51.532 – 00:13:56.032] This project was neither successful nor very long-lived. [00:13:56.032 – 00:14:03.012] Lois even placed the word mission in scarce quotes when she mentions visiting there in her diary. [00:14:03.012 – 00:14:11.472] And all this work with alcoholics in Maryland wasn't doing, wasn't the only thing going poorly for Fitz.

[00:14:11.472 – 00:14:21.661] Leaving his family to fend for themselves, he frequently decamped to nearby Washington, DC, where he stayed with his sister, Agnes, who worked [00:14:21.661 – 00:14:21.922] there. [00:14:21.922 – 00:14:28.712] Although these efforts did finally produce some slim positive results, they were meager indeed. [00:14:28.712 – 00:14:36.852] In late 1937, Fitz got a friend named Jackie W. sober, and Jackie in turn sobered up Jim B.. [00:14:36.852 – 00:14:46.952] But then Jackie drank again and eventually died drunk, while Jim left for New York, where he carried out all of his subsequent 1938 [00:14:46.952 – 00:14:47.752] escapades. [00:14:47.752 – 00:14:53.192] There's, there's some wonderful irony in this sequence of events.

[00:14:53.192 – 00:14:56.632] Fitz and Jim had grown up together and knew each other well. [00:14:56.632 – 00:15:06.672] In a controversy over what should and should not be put into the book, Fitz would find himself at one end of the spectrum advocating for a specifically re- religious [00:15:06.672 – 00:15:12.852] program, while Jim was positioned at the other end demanding a strictly psychological approach. [00:15:12.852 – 00:15:20.352] Today, they are buried just a few feet from each other in the Christ E. Church C. in Owensville, Maryland. [00:15:20.352 – 00:15:23.412] A Wikipedia link follows this. [00:15:23.412 – 00:15:31.832] For all his hard work, Fitz had almost no luck in actually getting people sober. [00:15:31.832 – 00:15:38.112] Perhaps the problem was his consistently S. emphasis on God while delivering his appeals.

[00:15:38.112 – 00:15:45.272] But whatever the cause, as Bill W. later admitted, near failure dogged his efforts for years. [00:15:45.272 – 00:15:55.532] Grievously compounding all of these issues, the work brought in no money whatsoever, and the Mayos were in desperate need of significant financial support. [00:15:55.532 – 00:16:04.892] Their large household and Elizabeth's ongoing medical problems demanded at least a moderate flow of regular income for them just to keep their heads above water [00:16:06.668 – 00:16:16.968] Bill and Fitz T. are numerous references to Elizabeth's poor health and frequent visits to doctors and, and hospitals in Lois' diary [00:16:16.968 – 00:16:17.568] and letters. [00:16:17.568 – 00:16:21.348] Bill and Fitz set out. [00:16:21.348 – 00:16:31.668] Taking the train from New York City, Bill and Fitz first stopped in Maryland and then traveled further south to Suffolk,

[00:16:31.668 – 00:16:36.398] Virginia, a city immediately west of Norfolk, where they spent the night with Dr. [00:16:36.398 – 00:16:39.028] Charles H. and his wife, Margaret. [00:16:39.028 – 00:16:49.188] Hedges was one of the 10 New York success stories Hank P. would describe in his presentation to the board of the Alcoholic F. one month later [00:16:49.188 – 00:16:53.228] as definitely recovered, but who are out of touch with the group. [00:16:53.228 – 00:17:03.258] Hedges had been the director of the prestigious John H. Hospital in Baltimore during the late 1920s and early 1930s before [00:17:03.258 – 00:17:08.688] becoming superintendent for New York City's Roosevelt H. early in 1934. [00:17:08.688 – 00:17:16.868] Two years later, his drinking had spun so far out of control that he was kicked off the staff of the hospital.

[00:17:16.868 – 00:17:26.908] He finally quit drinking in January or February 1937 with the help of W. and P., and once sober, almost immediately [00:17:26.908 – 00:17:35.288] petitioned Bill W. for assistance with his brother-in-law, Paul K., who also desperately needed to stop drinking. [00:17:35.288 – 00:17:39.948] Something P. did in July 1937, but with later mixed results. [00:17:39.948 – 00:17:41.758] Dr. [00:17:41.758 – 00:17:43.268] Hedges is on board. [00:17:43.268 – 00:17:53.288] Bill says when they met again in Virginia, where Hedges now worked for the local public health service, he couldn't help but notice that Charles' [00:17:53.288 – 00:17:59.768] skepticism had gone, implying the doctor had been something of an agnostic when he first came through the fellowship.

[00:17:59.768 – 00:18:09.778] Much to Bill's amusement, he discovered that not only was Hedges no longer a skeptic, he was now a fervent and active believer in the religious solution that [00:18:09.778 – 00:18:12.748] had been offered to him in New York in early 1937. [00:18:12.748 – 00:18:22.798] W. notes wryly there were even traces of his being over-grouped, implying that Charles H. was now deeply involved with [00:18:22.798 – 00:18:24.688] the loc- local Oxford group. [00:18:24.688 – 00:18:34.888] Bill and Fitz gave Charles a full report about the general state of affairs in both New York and Akron, and then explained their plans for the book project, [00:18:34.888 – 00:18:40.928] proudly showing him the two chapters already written and the outline for how the rest of the book would be organized. [00:18:40.928 – 00:18:50.948] Hedges got up a lot of steam right away, and in his enthusiasm, immediately volunteered to help his two friends with introductions to some

[00:18:50.948 – 00:18:57.048] former colleagues at John H., the most respected medical school and teaching hospital in the country. [00:18:57.048 – 00:19:01.208] This was almost more than Bill and Fitz could've hoped for. [00:19:01.208 – 00:19:09.088] John H. was established in 1889, and it quickly became the founding institution of modern American medicine. [00:19:09.088 – 00:19:17.908] Its importance in transforming the antiquated practices then used in the United States and the world can hardly be overstated. [00:19:17.908 – 00:19:28.058] During its 40 years of existence, John H. has revolutionized the art, the science, and the teaching of medicine, constantly inventing new medical [00:19:28.058 – 00:19:37.768] procedures and life-saving operations while training a host of well-educated doctors to carry the knowledge out in every area of the country. [00:19:37.768 – 00:19:44.968] In J. 1938, there w- was no more important or prestigious medical establishment in the country.

[00:19:44.968 – 00:19:54.888] So any testimonials Bill and Fitz might garner from members of its staff would be the most valuable and impressive professional endorsements they could possibly get. [00:19:54.888 – 00:19:58.868] Two J. Hopkins psychiatrists weigh in. [00:19:58.868 – 00:20:08.738] Charles H. claimed he was still in touch with several leading people on the psychiatric staff, and he insisted on driving Bill and Fitz over there to meet them. [00:20:08.738 – 00:20:15.258] The three men drove 230 miles up to Baltimore, and Hedges arranged an interview with Dr. [00:20:15.258 – 00:20:17.728] Leslie H. and Dr. [00:20:17.728 – 00:20:24.028] Esther R., two doctors that Hedges claimed were considered tops in psychiatry. [00:20:24.028 – 00:20:34.008] At the time, both doctors were active on the staff at John H. Hospital and served as associates in psychiatry when teaching at the university.

[00:20:34.008 – 00:20:36.488] Footnote. [00:20:36.488 – 00:20:37.528] Dr. [00:20:37.528 – 00:20:38.488] Leslie B. [00:20:38.488 – 00:20:48.488] Holman, from 1891 to 1960, received his MD from Johns H. University in 1917, and then served as a first [00:20:48.488 – 00:20:51.528] lieutenant in the US Army during World W. I. [00:20:51.528 – 00:21:01.288] He finished his psychiatric training and residency at Johns H. after the war, and attended graduate school in Vienna in 1924. [00:21:01.288 – 00:21:11.668] He served as an instructor in psychiatry at Johns H. from 1920 to 1922, as an associate in psychiatry from 1922

[00:21:11.668 – 00:21:20.288] to 1943, and ended his career at Johns H. as an assistant professor from 1943 to 1946. [00:21:20.288 – 00:21:26.738] He was subsequently a professor of psychiatry at Duke U. from 1946 to 19- [00:21:26.864 – 00:21:27.744] 1960. [00:21:27.744 – 00:21:28.784] Dr. [00:21:28.784 – 00:21:38.824] Esther R., 189- 1885 to 1956, received her MD from Johns H. University in 1915, and then [00:21:38.824 – 00:21:43.364] served as an assistant instructor there from 1917 to 1918. [00:21:43.364 – 00:21:52.664] For the new term in 1918, she was promoted to full instructor, and then again promoted in 1920 to associate in psychiatry.

[00:21:52.664 – 00:21:59.784] R. spent her entire career at Johns H., where she developed a specialty in child psychology. [00:21:59.784 – 00:22:09.864] By now, Bill was well-practiced at this presentation, and he launched into his explanation of who they were and what [00:22:09.864 – 00:22:10.504] they were doing. [00:22:10.504 – 00:22:20.524] He then gave them the two chapters of the book to read, asking that they point out where we were wrong in any of our statements about [00:22:20.524 – 00:22:24.624] the hopelessness of alcoholism and the mental conditions surrounding it. [00:22:24.624 – 00:22:28.044] W. claimed that based on what he had just heard, Dr. [00:22:28.044 – 00:22:33.204] H. responded with a statement that pleased him immensely.

[00:22:33.204 – 00:22:43.264] H. tossed the ball right back with the flat pronouncement that his judgment, we were one hundred percent correct in our attitudes and beliefs about the true alcoholic. [00:22:43.264 – 00:22:53.264] Pointing to Fitz and me, he said, "I will go even further than you people have and make the flat statement that alcoholics of your type are a hundred percent incurable on [00:22:53.264 – 00:22:55.224] any basis, save religion. [00:22:55.224 – 00:23:00.464] Although I am not a religionist, I have great respect for its powers in these cases. [00:23:00.464 – 00:23:04.364] If I can possibly avoid it, I never take such a case as yours. [00:23:04.364 – 00:23:14.524] They are too heartbreaking." What could be clearer or more supportive than this for W.'s thesis about the hopelessness of alcoholism [00:23:14.524 – 00:23:16.664] and the mental conditions surrounding it?

[00:23:16.664 – 00:23:26.774] As far as Bill was concerned, he had just received the ultimate seal of approval from the most respected psychiatrist in the country, and funneling this with [00:23:26.774 – 00:23:26.884] Dr. [00:23:26.884 – 00:23:36.953] J.'s earlier diagnosis of Roland H., he claimed that, "We now have the authority of the best man in Europe and of John H. on [00:23:36.953 – 00:23:39.384] the question of incurability. [00:23:39.384 – 00:23:46.724] Let any alcoholic who thinks he can successfully moderate his own drinking take note of this lethal diagnosis. [00:23:46.724 – 00:23:57.404] All of his efforts are doomed to failure, and his only hope of a cure is to commence to seek God with ardor and at once." Another [00:23:57.404 – 00:24:07.404] issue which came up during this interview was the firm conviction expressed by both H. and R. that AA would need to clearly define and avoid those

[00:24:07.404 – 00:24:12.344] unfortunates who n- cannot be helped by their religious cure for alcoholism. [00:24:12.344 – 00:24:17.424] As noted earlier, this was not a new topic of discussion within the fellowship. [00:24:17.424 – 00:24:27.664] There had already been a fair amount of exclusionary talk about people with problems other than alcohol, people who were therefore impervious to their solution. [00:24:27.664 – 00:24:38.143] In the outline for the book written a few weeks earlier, Hank had noted that the alcoholic sufferer cannot be too much handicapped [00:24:38.143 – 00:24:42.264] by other great mental and nervous abnorm- abnormalities. [00:24:42.264 – 00:24:48.124] Our failures with many such types prove that this cure will not work for everyone. [00:24:48.124 – 00:24:49.564] Our failure– Dr.

[00:24:49.564 – 00:25:00.324] R. was particularly adamant on this point, claiming those who had suffered organic deterioration from their drinking, along with those who were constitutional [00:25:00.324 – 00:25:07.504] psychopaths, must be carefully avoided as potential candidates for membership in Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:25:07.504 – 00:25:17.624] Providing perhaps more medical details than even Bill W. was looking for, she told him, "It is very necessary that you have some component [00:25:17.624 – 00:25:22.044] psychiatric check on the type of alcoholics you can be expected to be of value to. [00:25:22.044 – 00:25:27.904] The signs of organic brain disease deterioration are something that a layman cannot detect. [00:25:27.904 – 00:25:30.364] Many doctors are in the same boat. [00:25:30.364 – 00:25:34.964] These signs are found in a careful examination of the brain and cord.

[00:25:34.964 – 00:25:41.304] They represent damage which is in the nature of defect rather than disturbance in functioning. [00:25:41.304 – 00:25:51.384] These organic deteriorations and the constitutional psychopaths are two types which you cannot have any success with, and I think even the [00:25:51.384 – 00:26:01.914] most enthusiastic in your midst would not be disheartened by such failures." W., along with most other early members of Alcoholics [00:26:01.914 – 00:26:10.064] Anonymous, was extremely sensitive to the percentage rates of their success, and Bill was constantly guilty of inflating those numbers. [00:26:10.064 – 00:26:17.964] In A., the standards were far more stringent than New York, excluding anyone who didn't first make a public surrender. [00:26:17.964 – 00:26:26.424] But at this time, both groups were doing their best to exclude those who suffered from grave and emotional mental disorders. [00:26:26.424 – 00:26:36.644] Following the interview, Bill thanked Charles H. profusely for being so instrumental in setting afoot big things at John H.,

[00:26:36.644 – 00:26:40.304] and then he and Fitz returned to the farm at Cumberstone. [00:26:40.304 – 00:26:41.604] Giving Dr. [00:26:41.604 – 00:26:48.004] H. time to read over the chapters, the two men returned to John H. a few days later. [00:26:48.004 – 00:26:48.434] This time- [00:26:48.560 – 00:26:51.600] With Ebby Thatcher in tow for a follow-up interview. [00:26:51.600 – 00:26:58.940] H. was even more positive and enthusiastic about their work, and much impressed with everything he had read. [00:26:58.940 – 00:27:08.540] Bill commented that he again confirmed his belief in the proposition that drunks of our type have to get out from under on a spiritual basis.

[00:27:08.540 – 00:27:11.040] There was just no other option. [00:27:11.040 – 00:27:21.289] The doctor then gave them a lot of valuable advice about our manuscripts and our procedure, and noted that f- from the standpoint of a psychologist, [00:27:21.289 – 00:27:27.200] he could find no fault whatever with our procedure, our theories about ourselves, and our mental state. [00:27:27.200 – 00:27:34.680] H. was in complete agreement with everything that he had read in There Is a Solution and Bill's story. [00:27:34.680 – 00:27:44.220] W. noted that his only criticism was devoted to showing us how he- we could better express our ideas in avoiding controversy. [00:27:44.220 – 00:27:46.140] Footnote. [00:27:46.140 – 00:27:56.200] It's likely that once he was back in New York, Bill made some several substantive changes to There Is a Solution based on H.'s suggestions, thereby

[00:27:56.200 – 00:28:01.480] accounting for at least some of the severely reduced text found in the multilithe printing. [00:28:01.480 – 00:28:08.400] Bill confessed that he felt huge delight as he listened to Dr. [00:28:08.400 – 00:28:18.960] H.'s sweeping validation of his theories about alcoholism, and the doctor's agreement that their program of recovery was the only one that had any hope of success. [00:28:18.960 – 00:28:23.820] This was exactly the kind of professional endorsement W. had hoped to gain on this trip. [00:28:23.820 – 00:28:33.820] One that he was confident would prove to be an effective selling tool once he got back to New York, and again had to face that host of rich but skeptical [00:28:33.820 – 00:28:35.080] potential donors. [00:28:35.080 – 00:28:38.320] A loan from Agnes M..

[00:28:38.320 – 00:28:48.160] But none of these wonderful testimony- monials would put any immediate cash in the bank, and the balance there was running precariously low. [00:28:48.160 – 00:28:52.320] Frank A. had been reg- making regular payments to Dr. [00:28:52.320 – 00:29:02.520] Bob S. from R.'s contribution to the alcoholic fund: $500 in March, 450 in April, 500 in May, and 200 in June, [00:29:02.520 – 00:29:09.320] and he had also been giving cash to W. and M. from the money sent to him by Charles T.. [00:29:09.320 – 00:29:16.600] $200 to each of them on both May 9th and May 27th, and a final $200 to Bill on July 5th. [00:29:16.600 – 00:29:26.700] But note, since Bill was on the road in Maryland on July 5th, that check must have been mailed to his home in Brooklyn, or perhaps Lewis picked [00:29:26.700 – 00:29:28.200] it up from A. herself.

[00:29:28.200 – 00:29:38.870] Curiously, A. makes no mention of sending any money to Frank "Hank" Parker, presumably because he was still generating [00:29:38.870 – 00:29:42.880] at least a small amount of income with his Honor dealers operation. [00:29:42.880 – 00:29:49.190] While this left a comfortable balance in the R. account specifically earmarked for Dr. [00:29:49.190 – 00:29:59.000] Bob S. and his work in Akron, it exhausted the thousand dollars Townes, Townes had contributed to the alcoholic fund for W. and his friends. [00:29:59.000 – 00:30:01.800] Once again, they were flat broke. [00:30:01.800 – 00:30:11.900] Given their desperate financial situation, on Monday J. 11th, Bill made one last stop in Washington DC before catching the train back [00:30:11.900 – 00:30:15.820] to New York City, visiting Sid's younger sister, Agnes.

[00:30:15.820 – 00:30:21.360] Unlike her brother, Agnes M. had a thriving career and an excellent job. [00:30:21.360 – 00:30:31.120] She was a secretary of the Corcoran S. of Art in Washington, and the kind of person who had always been careful with her money. [00:30:31.120 – 00:30:41.499] Bill was hoping to convince Agnes to dip into her savings and offer them some substantial assistance in bridging the gap of the next few months [00:30:41.500 – 00:30:46.990] by making him a short-term loan of $1,000, promising to pay it back in less than three months. [00:30:46.990 – 00:30:55.620] Since the average salary in the US at this time was less than 2,000 a year, this was a significant amount to be loaning Bill. [00:30:55.620 – 00:31:05.900] But to his great relief, Agnes agreed to his request, and he left Washington DC's Union S. with a check for the full amount in his pocket. [00:31:05.900 – 00:31:10.940] It was a perfect ending to a long and very successful road trip.

[00:31:10.940 – 00:31:21.440] W. was coming home with S. positive endorsements from two of the country's most respected psychiatrists, and he had even secured enough cash for them to continue [00:31:21.440 – 00:31:25.600] their full-time fundraising efforts for at least a couple of months. [00:31:25.600 – 00:31:32.040] It must have made for a very exhilarating train ride back to Penn S. in New York City. [00:31:32.040 – 00:31:42.460] Bill returned to Brooklyn that night, Monday J. 11th, and the following Thursday he wrote Agnes a letter detailing the spe- specific arrangements [00:31:42.460 – 00:31:46.360] for the loan and his promise to pay it back in full by October 1st. [00:31:46.360 – 00:31:53.360] "My dear Agnes, I cannot tell you how grateful we all are for your substantial assistance. [00:31:53.360 – 00:31:57.580] It will be most helpful in bridging the gap for the next few months.

[00:31:57.580 – 00:31:59.680] After consulting with Mr. [00:31:59.680 – 00:32:00.500] Frank B. [00:32:00.500 – 00:32:10.040] A., custodian of our funds, it will simplify matters if I assume personally the obligation to repay you $1,000 which-" [00:32:10.256 – 00:32:13.556] You have loaned me as of July 11th, 1938. [00:32:13.556 – 00:32:21.136] The understanding is that I may have the use of this money until October 1st at 6% interest. [00:32:21.136 – 00:32:29.176] On or before that date, I fully expect to be able to repay you out of funds which I am collecting on behalf of the Alcoholic W.. [00:32:29.176 – 00:32:40.016] In the event that all or part of this sum cannot be paid by October 1st, I would like to continue the loan on the same basis until January 1st, 1939,

[00:32:40.016 – 00:32:43.636] by which time we shall certainly have received ample funds. [00:32:43.636 – 00:32:47.676] I am today depositing this check with our custodian, Mr. [00:32:47.676 – 00:32:48.415] A.. [00:32:48.415 – 00:32:58.456] It is understood, however, that the other funds which have already been contributed to this purpose and which have been specified definitely for certain phases of [00:32:58.456 – 00:33:04.556] the work are not now, nor will be, available for repayment of this loan to you. [00:33:04.556 – 00:33:14.676] In other words, it is my personal obligation, in which my associates join me wholeheartedly, to raise additional funds out of which we will make [00:33:14.676 – 00:33:15.555] this repayment.

[00:33:15.555 – 00:33:25.576] Though I would like to make the other funds previously contributed surety for you, I find that under the terms by which they were donated, these funds cannot [00:33:25.576 – 00:33:29.116] be used for repayment of any borrowed money. [00:33:29.116 – 00:33:35.596] As we agreed, your personal security lies in our ability to raise this money, of which I have no doubt whatsoever. [00:33:35.596 – 00:33:44.716] I'm sending this letter in triplicate in which you would return two copies on which you have stated your approval of this agreement as outlined above. [00:33:44.716 – 00:33:46.596] One of these I shall turn over to Mr. [00:33:46.596 – 00:33:47.376] A.. [00:33:47.376 – 00:33:51.696] I have just endorsed your check and deposited it with him as trustee.

[00:33:51.696 – 00:33:54.376] Affectionately yours, Bill W.. [00:33:54.376 – 00:33:54.976] William G. [00:33:54.976 – 00:33:58.396] W., WGW LM. [00:33:58.396 – 00:34:03.996] There are a number of interesting things worth noting in this letter. [00:34:03.996 – 00:34:14.166] First of all, Bill's assumption that it will simplify matters if he takes personal responsibility for the loan implies he had earlier assured Agnes that the funds [00:34:14.166 – 00:34:18.036] already deposited in the alcoholic fund would stand as security for her loan. [00:34:18.036 – 00:34:28.096] Frank A. had obviously disabused Bill of this understanding, pointing out that the only possible surety for Agnes's loan would be his personal

[00:34:28.096 – 00:34:33.016] promise to raise sufficient funds before the loan became due on October 1st. [00:34:33.016 – 00:34:43.636] W. was once again supremely confident in his own abilities as a successful fundraiser, this time specifically during the next 11 weeks. [00:34:43.636 – 00:34:54.076] In addition, despite the fact that this was now a personal loan, Bill makes it clear that his guarantee is just a necessary formality regarding the mechanics of repayment. [00:34:54.076 – 00:35:00.316] This was not really a personal loan, and the check was not going to be deposited into the W. bank account. [00:35:00.316 – 00:35:08.376] Instead, it was being handed over to Frank A. with Agnes's check endorsed over to him as the trustee of that fund. [00:35:08.376 – 00:35:18.676] Bill was being absolutely scrupulous in relation to the handling of this money, hoping to avoid any possibility of some later investigator unearthing [00:35:18.676 – 00:35:24.056] the story and alleging that he had been using his work with alcoholics to line his own pocket.

[00:35:24.056 – 00:35:30.236] Also of interest is Bill's promise to pay 6% interest on this loan. [00:35:30.236 – 00:35:40.536] A typical annual interest rate on bank deposits in 1938 was 3.5%, so this was an excellent short-term investment for Agnes [00:35:40.536 – 00:35:40.936] M.. [00:35:40.936 – 00:35:47.996] Whether A. was a tough negotiator or Bill was just sweetening the deal to make it more attractive is unknown. [00:35:47.996 – 00:35:57.996] Curiously, for someone with such business acumen, Bill W. does not specify per annum as the term in this [00:35:57.996 – 00:35:58.276] letter. [00:35:58.276 – 00:36:05.736] However, it is unlikely W. was promising to pay a 6% interest rate on a loan with a term of less than three months.

[00:36:05.736 – 00:36:14.996] Much more likely, the per annum is implied here based on the conversation he had with Agnes M. in Washington, DC the previous Monday. [00:36:14.996 – 00:36:24.176] A minor but final item of interest are the initials WGW:LM following the signature line. [00:36:24.176 – 00:36:30.796] The home address listed at the top of the page identifies this letter as coming from 182 Clinton S. in Brooklyn. [00:36:30.796 – 00:36:35.316] But there is no further information about who this new typist might be. [00:36:35.316 – 00:36:45.316] At this time, none of the members of the New York Group had the initials LM, nor did any of their last initials begin with the M, other [00:36:45.316 – 00:36:48.456] than Fitz M., who did not type this letter to his sister. [00:36:48.456 – 00:36:58.716] Although B. had previously identified some of his letters as being typed in Brooklyn, this was the first one to provide any clue as to who the mysterious home typist

[00:36:58.716 – 00:36:59.276] might be. [00:36:59.276 – 00:37:09.316] But that clue is so insubstantial that we are left with little more than a nameless assistant who is helping W. on his at– with his at-home secretarial [00:37:09.316 – 00:37:09.596] work. [00:37:09.596 – 00:37:19.596] It does, however, provide conclusive evidence that at this time, W. did have resources other than Ruth H. to help him with [00:37:19.596 – 00:37:21.196] his occasional typing needs. [00:37:21.196 – 00:37:31.306] Agnes accepted both Bill's explanation and his conditions for the loan, signing her name next to the approved line at the bottom of the letter and sending two [00:37:31.306 – 00:37:31.816] of these three

[00:37:31.952 – 00:37:34.052] Counterspied copies back to W.. [00:37:34.052 – 00:37:36.652] A flurry of letters. [00:37:36.652 – 00:37:46.652] The next day, Bill abandoned his mystery, his mystery typist in Brooklyn and traveled to Newark, to where he dictated at least [00:37:46.652 – 00:37:47.912] eight letters to Ruth H.. [00:37:47.912 – 00:37:53.832] Several of these provide most of the details we have about Bill's road trip with Fitz M.. [00:37:53.832 – 00:38:03.892] But when taken together, they provide something more important, a wonderfully revealing snapshot of one day in the life of Bill W., as he was living it [00:38:03.892 – 00:38:06.692] on Friday, July 15th, 1938.

[00:38:06.692 – 00:38:10.712] Bill's first letter was a straightforward thank you to Dr. [00:38:10.712 – 00:38:20.712] Leslie H. at John H., telling him how much he appreciated meeting him and expressing his gratitude for the real, very real interest the doctor [00:38:20.712 – 00:38:22.622] had shown in their program of recovery. [00:38:22.622 – 00:38:32.652] W. reminded Holman of his offer to continue reviewing and critiquing their work, their book, as we get further on with our writing. [00:38:32.652 – 00:38:42.672] And expressed his hope that theirs would not just be a one-sided arrangement, but that it will turn out that we can be of real use to you in some fashion or the other [00:38:42.772 – 00:38:43.472] in the future. [00:38:43.472 – 00:38:53.512] Bill was not about to let the prestigious connections with John H. slip away from him, and he fully intended to continue fostering as close a relationship

[00:38:53.512 – 00:38:54.352] as possible with Dr. [00:38:54.352 – 00:38:55.032] H.. [00:38:55.032 – 00:38:57.332] A thank you to Dr. [00:38:57.332 – 00:38:58.092] Hedges. [00:38:58.092 – 00:39:00.422] His next letter went to Dr. [00:39:00.422 – 00:39:10.712] Charles H., sincerely thanking him for the introduction he had engineered with the two famous psychiatrists at John H., and reiterating how [00:39:10.712 – 00:39:13.872] pleased he was with the results of their trip to Baltimore.

[00:39:13.872 – 00:39:22.652] W. also informed him that he had not yet followed up on another contact Charles had provided, a Professor H. in New York City. [00:39:22.652 – 00:39:24.452] Footnote. [00:39:24.452 – 00:39:32.012] There are no further details provided about Professor H., here or elsewhere, but he is most likely Dr. [00:39:32.012 – 00:39:41.312] Graham H., an American neurologist and sportsman who advocated for physical exercise as a treatment for nervous disorders. [00:39:41.312 – 00:39:51.692] Hammond was professor of nervous and mental diseases at the NYU School of Medicine throughout his entire professional career, and was in addition, an Olympic [00:39:51.692 – 00:40:01.752] fencer, a very elitist sport at that time, who was, according to the United States Fencing H. of Fame, generally regarded as the father of American [00:40:01.752 – 00:40:02.392] fencing.

[00:40:02.392 – 00:40:05.412] A Wikipedia reference follows this. [00:40:05.412 – 00:40:15.552] Bill was curious to know if Hedges had written to Hammond yet and asked if he should bring up Owen Y.'s [00:40:15.552 – 00:40:17.372] name when talking with Hammond. [00:40:17.372 – 00:40:21.092] "It strikes me that he might be an exceptionally good approach to Mr. [00:40:21.092 – 00:40:27.992] Young, but I do not want to do anything which would disturb your relationship with Hammond or which would seem unreasonable to him. [00:40:27.992 – 00:40:29.792] So if you'd rather have Mr. [00:40:29.792 – 00:40:39.812] Young not mentioned, I wish you would let me know." Charles H. had obviously dropped Hammond's and Young's names together in these conversations, and now Bill

[00:40:39.812 – 00:40:45.092] was wondering if he could use this Hammond connection to get a personal introduction to Owen Y.. [00:40:45.092 – 00:40:54.572] Mention of Owen Y.'s name here attests to W.'s grand vision for approaching the most prominent millionaires in New York City for contributions. [00:40:54.572 – 00:41:04.572] Having successfully secured at least some money from the richest man in America, it seemed perfectly logical to Bill that he should continue his fundraising efforts by making [00:41:04.572 – 00:41:10.892] direct appeals to other men who sat very near the pinnacle of the country's economic period, pyramid. [00:41:10.892 – 00:41:12.332] Owen D. [00:41:12.332 – 00:41:14.792] Young was exactly that kind of man. [00:41:14.792 – 00:41:24.792] He had created the Radio C. of America, RCA, in 1919, helped found the National B. Company, NBC, in the

[00:41:24.792 – 00:41:30.692] mid-1920s, and had been sitting on the board of trustees for the R. Foundation since 1928. [00:41:30.692 – 00:41:41.052] In 1932, Young was even considered a S. dark horse candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, an honor that went to Franklin [00:41:41.052 – 00:41:41.232] D. [00:41:41.232 – 00:41:42.372] Roosevelt instead. [00:41:42.372 – 00:41:52.532] Young was a titan of industry, but W. was confident he could enlist him in their cause once he was given the chance to make an appeal based on the two [00:41:52.532 – 00:42:01.232] chapters from his book, these new testimonials he had just received, and the fact that they had already sobered up a remarkable number of men. [00:42:01.232 – 00:42:11.012] Bill assured Charles H. that if there were any objection to him asking Hammond for an introduction to Owen Y., it would not be a problem.

[00:42:11.012 – 00:42:15.132] "We have other approaches to him," he noted confidently. [00:42:15.132 – 00:42:25.292] Obviously, W. was aware of Young's position as a trustee of the R. Foundation, and he was equally confident Willard R. would be able to facilitate [00:42:25.292 – 00:42:28.492] an introduction for him, should that prove necessary. [00:42:28.492 – 00:42:31.952] Keeping the New York group in the loop. [00:42:31.952 – 00:42:42.002] In an effort to keep the R. group well-informed about all of his activities and as closely involved in their progress as possible, Bill's next three letters were sent to [00:42:42.002 – 00:42:45.632] Albert S., Willard R., and Frank A.. [00:42:45.632 – 00:42:53.522] The first of these went to S., thanking him for the fine letter of recommendation he had sent them, assuring him it would be used discreet-

[00:42:53.648 – 00:42:55.608] ly and with regard to good taste. [00:42:55.608 – 00:43:05.608] S.'s letter had been mailed on July 1st, so Bill also made the necessary apologies for his delayed response, explaining he had been out of [00:43:05.608 – 00:43:06.388] town recently. [00:43:06.388 – 00:43:16.388] Bill then profusely thanked S. and his associates for "the monies you have placed at our disposal, the lengths to which you have gone to look after our needs, and [00:43:16.388 – 00:43:26.148] the spirit in which these things have been done." W. could hardly have been more generous in his praise of S. and the other members of the R. circle. [00:43:26.148 – 00:43:34.488] They were, after all, the solid foundation upon which he was hoping to build a broad network of other wealthy supporters and donors. [00:43:34.488 – 00:43:44.808] S.'s brief letter of introduction, multiple copies were supplied, vouched for his faith in the new movement, making it an invaluable piece of paper

[00:43:44.808 – 00:43:46.688] in New York City in 1938. [00:43:46.688 – 00:43:56.588] One that would surely open a number of important doors, allowing Bill, Fitz, and Hank to make their appeals directly to some of New York City's most elite citizens. [00:43:56.588 – 00:44:06.848] Lockwood G. Engineers I., 30 R. Plaza, New York, printed letterhead, July 1st, 1938. [00:44:06.848 – 00:44:08.788] To whom it may concern. [00:44:08.788 – 00:44:11.328] This will introduce William G. [00:44:11.328 – 00:44:14.248] W., Jay F. M., and Henry G. [00:44:14.248 – 00:44:15.008] P..

[00:44:15.008 – 00:44:23.808] These men are part of a fellowship of 100 ex-alcoholics who have recovered on a basis which in most aspects is new. [00:44:23.808 – 00:44:27.768] Most of them have been pronounced medically incurable. [00:44:27.768 – 00:44:35.288] I have followed their work with much interest and know personally that these men have sound medical endorsements. [00:44:35.288 – 00:44:37.988] I gladly vouch for what they may say to you. [00:44:37.988 – 00:44:40.068] Truly yours, Albert L. [00:44:40.068 – 00:44:41.628] S., President. [00:44:41.628 – 00:44:51.108] It should be pointed out that this claim for success for 100 ex-alcoholics by July 1st, 1938 is an inflated number.

[00:44:51.108 – 00:44:59.668] More good marketing than an acute rec- ac- accurate reflection of the true number of sober AA members at that point. [00:44:59.668 – 00:45:09.788] It is also worth noting that 100 is the number constantly and consistently bandied about, without any increase whatsoever, [00:45:09.788 – 00:45:15.468] for the next nine months, right up until the day the book was published in early April. [00:45:15.468 – 00:45:25.728] To accept the accuracy of this number on July 1st, 1938 is to believe either no further recoveries were made during the following nine months, [00:45:25.728 – 00:45:36.088] unlikely, or that Bill W. consistently disregarded all of the additional members gained be- between July to April, equally unlikely. [00:45:36.088 – 00:45:45.268] 100 is much more believable as the number of the successful recoveries by the time the book was published, although even this has been challenged. [00:45:45.268 – 00:45:53.948] But at this point of the story, 100 ex-alcoholics was more smart marketing than any kind of accurate reflection of reality.

[00:45:53.948 – 00:46:04.008] Bill had Ruth type up two extra copies of his letter to Albert S. and sent these along with his letter to Willard R., asking that the extra [00:46:04.008 – 00:46:05.728] copy be passed on to A. [00:46:05.728 – 00:46:06.988] Leroy C.. [00:46:06.988 – 00:46:15.148] W. also repeated his invitation to the three R. men, one he had obviously made several times before. [00:46:15.148 – 00:46:19.958] Let me say again that we should like to have y- yourself, Mr. [00:46:19.958 – 00:46:21.008] C., and Mr. [00:46:21.008 – 00:46:26.628] S. come to any or all of our Tuesday night gatherings without waiting to be asked.

[00:46:26.628 – 00:46:34.588] Certainly in the case of you gentlemen, we shall gladly waive the heavy drinking that has qualified us for Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:46:34.588 – 00:46:38.108] By common consent, you gentlemen are in the fold. [00:46:38.108 – 00:46:42.388] We think you are one of us, and there are no honorary members. [00:46:42.388 – 00:46:52.408] The casual use of Alcoholics Anonymous here provides concrete evidence that this new name had decisively entered the vocabulary of the New York [00:46:52.408 – 00:46:58.928] fellowship in the six short weeks since its first appearance in Hank's ideas and there is a solution. [00:46:58.928 – 00:47:08.848] Bill then had Ruth type up yet another copy of his letter to Albert S., and he sent this one to Frank A.. [00:47:08.848 – 00:47:13.087] There was no need to extend a Tuesday night invitation to A..

[00:47:13.087 – 00:47:22.238] He was already close enough to W. and P. to have accepted their offer to visit the weekly meeting on more than one occasion, usually bringing his wife with him. [00:47:22.238 – 00:47:30.548] Frank was much more involved in the day-to-day operations of the fellowship at this point, receiving regular office visits from both men. [00:47:30.548 – 00:47:40.408] So B.'s letter focused on a recent and very exciting development in their plans to spread the program beyond the confines of just Akron and New York. [00:47:40.408 – 00:47:44.228] Dear F., I am enclosing a copy of our letter of thanks to Mr. [00:47:44.228 – 00:47:45.428] S.. [00:47:45.428 – 00:47:52.528] Just received an enthusiastic letter from our Springfield protege, which is also enclosed with a copy of my reply. [00:47:52.528 – 00:47:59.308] These two letters will give you a clear idea of how this thing takes root and how it is likely to spread.

[00:47:59.308 – 00:48:08.308] It is just a question of getting live wires of this description into action throughout the country, and then being able to follow them up and help them out. [00:48:08.308 – 00:48:12.028] I feel that the book will uncover hundreds of men of Mr. [00:48:12.028 – 00:48:13.608] Furlong's description. [00:48:13.608 – 00:48:15.208] Much yours, Bill. [00:48:16.044 – 00:48:18.604] WGW colon RH. [00:48:18.604 – 00:48:24.044] Ray F. spreading the word beyond Akron and New York. [00:48:24.044 – 00:48:34.404] The Springfield protege was Ray F. Now, the letter is from RA, Roland A. Furlong

[00:48:34.404 – 00:48:42.224] of Springfield, Massachusetts, who has been mistakenly identified as Ralph F., another contemporary Massachusetts resident. [00:48:42.224 – 00:48:52.754] I have called him Ray here based on Jim B.'s use of that name in his handwritten list of those dry and active since AA book 4139, [00:48:52.754 – 00:48:59.224] and his identification of the author of the first edition big book story, Another P. Son. [00:48:59.224 – 00:49:04.244] B.'s copy of the multilitth printing is currently in the author's collection. [00:49:04.244 – 00:49:09.784] Such a name would be likely for a man who so frequently went by his initials RA. [00:49:09.784 – 00:49:19.884] Adding an additional layer of complexity to this confusion over RA's identity is the fact that Roland also went by the nickname [00:49:19.884 – 00:49:20.384] Bob.

[00:49:20.384 – 00:49:28.944] Supposedly his father preferred that name for him, and because of this, it has been incorrectly listed in some AA documents as Robert. [00:49:28.944 – 00:49:39.054] See D., the author's page thirty-seven and Jared L's excellent research on the topic posted to AA History L.'s message number 9280, [00:49:39.054 – 00:49:41.044] and there's a link to that that follows here. [00:49:41.044 – 00:49:44.584] Ray F.. [00:49:44.584 – 00:49:55.124] And, and the great news in his letter was that he was back in Springfield, Massachusetts, staying sober and doing his very best to spread the word [00:49:55.124 – 00:49:57.784] among the other alcoholics there. [00:49:57.784 – 00:50:05.004] Despite his lack of immediate success, Ray was a perfect example of what Bill W. had been advocating for months.

[00:50:05.004 – 00:50:15.144] One man would get sober and then go back to his hometown, carrying the message about their program of recovery to others and offering his own sobriety as proof [00:50:15.144 – 00:50:16.244] of its effectiveness. [00:50:16.244 – 00:50:26.394] If this could work with a man who had been exposed to the fellowship directly, there was no reason to think it wouldn't also work for someone who was introduced to their program by simply [00:50:26.394 – 00:50:27.684] reading the book. [00:50:27.684 – 00:50:37.724] Furlong had spent a week at T. Hospital in early 1938, but he started experimenting with a little controlled drinking shortly after he arrived back home. [00:50:37.724 – 00:50:41.604] Predictably, this spun out of control in fairly short order. [00:50:41.604 – 00:50:51.784] After a particularly spectacular drunk on Tuesday, June sixth, his wife packed him up the next morning and drove him a hundred and fifty miles to New York

[00:50:51.784 – 00:50:55.144] City, where she redelivered him to T. Hospital. [00:50:55.144 – 00:50:58.253] Calming her fears of yet another relapse, Dr. [00:50:58.253 – 00:51:04.444] Silforth assured her that this time he felt he really had something that would work for Ray. [00:51:04.444 – 00:51:10.724] Three days later, Silforth's promised solution arrived in the person of two members of the New York Fellowship. [00:51:10.724 – 00:51:20.724] One came during the day, and another visited him later that night, who told Furlong that they had been exactly like him not so long ago, but now they were free [00:51:20.724 – 00:51:21.864] of their obsession for drink. [00:51:21.864 – 00:51:32.144] The next day was Sunday, and Ray was visited by a third recovered alcoholic who carried a spiritual message, one that Furlong later described as

[00:51:32.144 – 00:51:34.784] a simple day-to-day plan of faith. [00:51:34.784 – 00:51:45.064] The bed-ridden man was not just convinced, he surrendered completely, making a final agreement to let God be the first in my life, after which he claimed [00:51:45.064 – 00:51:52.544] the whole outlook and horizon brightened up in a manner which I am unable to describe except to say that it was glorious. [00:51:52.544 – 00:51:58.624] There's a footnote in that- This turn- Jackie, there's a footnote in, in the middle of that sentence. [00:51:58.624 – 00:51:59.304] Ah. [00:51:59.304 – 00:52:09.504] An interesting mid-1938 instance of getting a surrender to God before the new man has left the hospital, still a common practice in Akron, but much [00:52:09.504 – 00:52:12.204] less frequently noted in New York by this time.

[00:52:12.204 – 00:52:13.684] Thank you. [00:52:13.684 – 00:52:23.724] This turnaround was so convincing that the following day, Ray's new friend insisted he leave T. Hospital and come stay [00:52:23.724 – 00:52:26.544] at his home in New Jersey, which Furlong did. [00:52:26.544 – 00:52:36.754] The next night, Tuesday, June fourteenth, Ray was taken to the meeting in Brooklyn, where he would have heard about Jim B.'s ongoing slips and also been introduced to Ebby T., [00:52:36.754 – 00:52:40.784] Thatcher, who was just returning from his own recent bout with alcohol. [00:52:40.784 – 00:52:50.064] At that meeting, Ray said he found a group of men who were just like himself, the telling of a liberty of living unmatched by anything I had ever seen. [00:52:50.064 – 00:52:52.684] He felt like he was at home at last.

[00:52:52.684 – 00:53:01.514] Shortly after this, Ray returned to Springfield, rejoined his wife in their stationary store business, and began to set his life in order. [00:53:01.514 – 00:53:11.764] Essential to that recovery was the need to work with others, but all of his initial attempts failed and, with the typical alcoholic expectations [00:53:11.764 – 00:53:21.864] of being wildly successful in his first three or four weeks, he wrote to Bill W. in some despair, wondering what he was doing wrong, asking for advice and suggesting [00:53:21.864 – 00:53:25.314] perhaps he needed to come back to Brooklyn for a short refresher course. [00:53:25.314 – 00:53:33.824] Bill's response, a copy of which was sent to A. along with Ray's original letter, was both enthusiastic and candid. [00:53:33.824 – 00:53:34.844] "Mr. [00:53:34.844 – 00:53:36.894] RA Furlong, Empire-

[00:53:37.080 – 00:53:41.280] Stationers, 305 Bridge S., Springfield, Massachusetts. [00:53:41.280 – 00:53:45.790] Dear R.A., you bet your life you and your wife can come. [00:53:45.790 – 00:53:47.540] Plan to stay the night with us. [00:53:47.540 – 00:53:51.100] We have the meetings on Tuesday evenings during the summer. [00:53:51.100 – 00:54:01.140] They are usually held at my house, but not always, so you had better give us a few days' notice so we can let you know if there is any change of plans or possible omission of the meeting. [00:54:01.140 – 00:54:07.820] I cannot tell you how delighted I am about what you say about yourself, your wife, and those men you are working with. [00:54:07.820 – 00:54:17.840] We know that you are on the right track, and it was the impression of everyone who talked with you down here that you would be sure to make good, particularly

[00:54:17.840 – 00:54:21.909] if you took an interest in seeing that others enjoy the chance you have. [00:54:21.909 – 00:54:28.040] Christ as an idea is fine, but Christ in action is a power which has no limitations. [00:54:28.040 – 00:54:33.060] We have had a slew of experience working with these drunks. [00:54:33.060 – 00:54:40.280] It is sometimes a heartbreaking business, and we have learned not to be disturbed when our desires in the matter were not fulfilled. [00:54:40.280 – 00:54:46.440] These men, as a class, remind us of a forest through which a great fire has wept. [00:54:46.440 – 00:54:52.660] All of the trees are charred on the outside, and there appears to be no worthwhile timber left. [00:54:52.660 – 00:54:57.570] But a good part of the trees were once S., and the wood was straight grained.

[00:54:57.570 – 00:55:06.820] We have discovered in our work that if these are not too badly charred, they make great timber, even better for their seasoning in the fire. [00:55:06.820 – 00:55:16.160] But those trees which are B. and knotted and useless before the fire are likely to remain that way whatever we do. [00:55:16.160 – 00:55:26.620] It is true that anything is possible through Christ, but I think we assume a great deal considering our own incapacity to demonstrate his principles [00:55:26.620 – 00:55:30.880] if we think everybody we touch is going to get well. [00:55:30.880 – 00:55:34.820] We have a lot of conceit knocked out of us in that direction. [00:55:34.820 – 00:55:38.660] However, the way to learn is to keep on working. [00:55:38.660 – 00:55:48.590] I had some hard schooling myself, for the first eight or 10 cases I dealt with never got anywhere, and there have been lots more since.

[00:55:48.590 – 00:55:52.900] I feel that I have always learned more from the failures than from the successes. [00:55:52.900 – 00:55:58.470] And don't take yourself or these men and their problems too seriously. [00:55:58.470 – 00:56:03.680] I believe that God wants us to be naturally and joyously happy. [00:56:03.680 – 00:56:08.540] To be otherwise is to limit our effectiveness in this skeptical old world. [00:56:08.540 – 00:56:09.700] Yours, Bill. [00:56:09.700 – 00:56:12.740] WGW:RH. [00:56:12.740 – 00:56:22.740] One thing that stands out starkly in this letter is W.'s explicit mention of Jesus C. as God, something he rarely

[00:56:22.740 – 00:56:23.699] did in print. [00:56:23.699 – 00:56:33.830] Bill is almost certainly responding here to the use of Christ's name in Ray's letter, but it is also obvious W. is very comfortable with this [00:56:33.830 – 00:56:36.520] kind of religiously specific talk. [00:56:36.520 – 00:56:46.680] That is hardly surprising, since all of the believing members of Alcoholics Anonymous New York at this time were Christians, and any talk among themselves about [00:56:46.680 – 00:56:51.560] religion or spirituality would necessarily have been framed in those terms. [00:56:51.560 – 00:57:02.160] One further reason for Bill's comfort level with talk of Christ as God was the fact that at this time, readings from the New York– readings [00:57:02.160 – 00:57:08.280] from the New T. were still a regular part of the meeting format for AA, even in Brooklyn.

[00:57:08.280 – 00:57:13.820] Given all of these circumstances, who else would you talk about when you talk about God? [00:57:13.820 – 00:57:20.480] Also of interest here is Bill's metaphor of the forest devastated by a great fire. [00:57:20.480 – 00:57:30.480] This sounds very much like a figure of speech he had developed and perfected for use in his presentation to potential donors, and one that he uses again in later [00:57:30.480 – 00:57:31.280] letters. [00:57:31.280 – 00:57:35.860] The fire is a rich metaphor, one that can cut both ways. [00:57:35.860 – 00:57:45.920] As W. emphasizes, despite outward appearances, some of these charred timbers are not only salvageable, but actually better for having been seasoned [00:57:45.920 – 00:57:46.620] in the fire.

[00:57:46.620 – 00:57:49.590] On the other hand, hearkening back to Dr. [00:57:49.590 – 00:57:59.780] R.' point that there are some damaged people who just can't be saved, he notes there are those who are B. and knotted and useless [00:57:59.780 – 00:58:06.679] before the fire, italics added, and they are likely to remain that way whatever we do. [00:58:06.679 – 00:58:16.700] Alcoholics Anonymous members were completely dedicated to working with drunks who could be saved, but they had no interest in squandering their time and [00:58:16.700 – 00:58:19.840] energy on those who were hopeless for whatever reason. [00:58:19.840 – 00:58:25.140] Reverend W., a link to wealthy New York donors. [00:58:25.140 – 00:58:31.200] The seventh letter Bill wrote that day went to Reverend C.E.B.

[00:58:31.200 – 00:58:38.060] Ward, an activist Presbyterian minister with deep contacts among rich donors in New York City. [00:58:38.060 – 00:58:39.800] Footnote. [00:58:39.800 – 00:58:41.480] Clement A.B. [00:58:41.480 – 00:58:49.700] Ward and his wife Blanche co-founded Marble H. in 1914 and the League for the American H. in 1929. [00:58:49.700 – 00:58:58.360] Both of these charities were based in New York City, with Marble H. maintaining a participating country home in Mountain V., New Jersey [00:58:59.016 – 00:59:08.196] The charter of Marvel H. was to establish in the great cities of America C. homes of vocational guidance for struggling youths. [00:59:08.196 – 00:59:18.436] Each home group consists of 10 to 15 under the supervision of a Christian man and wife or mother-hearted woman, supported

[00:59:18.436 – 00:59:21.576] by voluntary contributions in board by cost. [00:59:21.576 – 00:59:31.056] That's from a New York charities directory, Charity O. Society, New York 1918, pages 180 to 181. [00:59:31.056 – 00:59:41.376] Willard R. had encouraged Bill to meet with Ward, but despite phone calls and letters, [00:59:41.376 – 00:59:46.506] the two men had managed to miss each other throughout late June and the first half of July. [00:59:46.506 – 00:59:56.516] Bill was anxious to talk to Ward, was hoping he could convince him to come to Brooklyn to attend one of their Tuesday night meetings so that he could see with his [00:59:56.516 – 00:59:59.456] own eyes the miracles being worked there. [00:59:59.456 – 01:00:00.116] "My dear Mr.

[01:00:00.116 – 01:00:10.616] Ward, the best laid plans of mice and men gang aft agley." Footnote: A slight misquote [01:00:10.616 – 01:00:16.656] from Robert B.' 1785 poem, To a Mouse on Turning H. Up in Her N. with a Plow. [01:00:16.656 – 01:00:26.776] The exact line in the Scottish idiom reads, "The best laid scheme of mice and men gang oft agley," which is usually translated [01:00:26.776 – 01:00:36.835] into standard English as, "The best laid schemes of mice and men often go astray." "What with being unable [01:00:36.836 – 01:00:41.956] to reach you on the phone and having been out of town for some time, we have not gotten together as Mr. [01:00:41.956 – 01:00:43.786] R. suggested we might. [01:00:43.786 – 01:00:54.336] Each T. evening at my home, 182 Clinton S., Brooklyn, we have an informal meeting of ex-alcoholics and their families to which newcomers

[01:00:54.336 – 01:00:55.616] may come for assistance. [01:00:55.616 – 01:01:01.436] These meetings are so informal they may startle you a bit, but they do meet our needs. [01:01:01.436 – 01:01:07.056] We would like you to come to our next one, if you so desire, so that we may become better acquainted. [01:01:07.056 – 01:01:17.116] My B. telephone number is main 4-3220, and you take either the East S. or West S. subway from New [01:01:17.116 – 01:01:22.636] York, getting off at Borough H., where you will be within three or four blocks of my house. [01:01:22.636 – 01:01:27.716] People commence to drop in around 6:00 o'clock, and we have a buffet supper. [01:01:27.716 – 01:01:31.676] Everyone stays as long as they like, which is sometimes for the night.

[01:01:31.676 – 01:01:42.076] So for next Tuesday evening, please feel free– please feel that you are one of us, and on that afternoon will you phone my house and let whoever answers [01:01:42.076 – 01:01:43.276] know that you will be there? [01:01:43.276 – 01:01:53.526] If you cannot make it this Tuesday, please feel free to come later, though you might phone in advance as sometimes the meetings are omitted or held at another [01:01:53.526 – 01:01:54.016] place. [01:01:54.016 – 01:01:57.396] Very much yours, William G. [01:01:57.396 – 01:02:07.836] W., WGW:RH." Both this letter and the one to Ray F. mention that people occasionally [01:02:07.836 – 01:02:09.576] stayed overnight after the meeting.

[01:02:09.576 – 01:02:14.786] So the W. Hotel was obviously still open for business on Clinton S.. [01:02:14.786 – 01:02:24.676] Bill also tells Ward a buffet supper was always served, making it sound as if Lois was buying and preparing enough food for the entire group each week. [01:02:24.676 – 01:02:31.336] But this was really more of a potluck affair with food contributions coming from the wives who also attended those meetings. [01:02:31.336 – 01:02:32.876] Keeping Dr. [01:02:32.876 – 01:02:34.136] Bob informed. [01:02:34.136 – 01:02:44.136] Having addressed all of AA's helpers and potential supporters on the East C., Bill's final letter on the day went to Bob S., providing him with [01:02:44.136 – 01:02:54.616] a recap of his trip down south barnstorming through Maryland, Virginia, and Washington, et cetera, and proudly reporting on their success with the two famous psychiatrists

[01:02:54.616 – 01:02:55.636] at John H.. [01:02:55.636 – 01:02:57.356] Bill assured Dr. [01:02:57.356 – 01:03:02.796] Bob these endorsements would make a significant difference in their effort to raise money. [01:03:02.796 – 01:03:12.916] "The old juggernauts of fundraising bounces along," he told Smith, "still in low gear, but shifting soon, I think, to second." For Bill W., [01:03:12.916 – 01:03:20.916] shifting into second gear meant he would now be so caught up in fundraising that he had no idea when he would be able to visit Akron again. [01:03:20.916 – 01:03:23.516] Certainly not anytime in the near future. [01:03:23.516 – 01:03:26.376] Explaining this delay, he notes that, "Mr.

[01:03:26.376 – 01:03:33.076] S. has just given me letters of introduction, and we plan to put the bite on such people as Owen D. [01:03:33.076 – 01:03:34.266] Young, Mr. [01:03:34.266 – 01:03:42.196] Stettinius, Sloan, and such like without delay." Bill's sights could not be set any higher. [01:03:42.196 – 01:03:45.116] In addition to the already mentioned Owen D. [01:03:45.116 – 01:03:55.236] Young of RCA and NBC fame, Bill now plans to elicit Edward S., chairman of the board of US Steel, and later Secretary of State [01:03:55.236 – 01:03:59.136] under FDR and Harry T., and also Alfred P. [01:03:59.136 – 01:04:02.996] Sloan, the president and CEO of General M..

[01:04:02.996 – 01:04:12.996] Bill W. was clearly not intimidated by the prospect of making his pitch to these titans of industry who were among the richest and most powerful [01:04:12.996 – 01:04:13.916] men in the country. [01:04:13.916 – 01:04:20.216] Bill signed off this exuberant and chatty letter to Bob without asking for either his opinion [01:04:20.772 – 01:04:23.832] Or his consent on any of these weighty matters. [01:04:23.832 – 01:04:29.792] It was either a foregone conclusion, or perhaps Bill just didn't feel he needed it. [01:04:29.792 – 01:04:37.912] He simply closes the letter by sending, "Best wishes to dear Annie and yourself, and all of the whirling dervishes. [01:04:37.912 – 01:04:47.912] Amen." That final salutation sounds light-hearted enough, but it is unclear whether his whirling dervishes comment was Bill's jesting

[01:04:47.912 – 01:04:58.582] way of referring to the Akron brethren, or if he was, if it was a private joke between the two men about the Akron group members, both sober and non-alcoholic, [01:04:58.582 – 01:05:07.132] who were still so outraged by W.'s effort to raise large sums of money to further his plans for the expansion of AA. [01:05:07.132 – 01:05:17.132] Whatever B. meant by that remark, given all of his own frenzied activity on this particular Friday, July 15th, 1938, [01:05:17.132 – 01:05:23.312] anyone looking for a whirling dervish could start right there in Newark, New Jersey. [01:05:23.312 – 01:05:28.031] There was surely no need to travel all the way to Akron to find one. [01:05:28.031 – 01:05:31.452] An office downgrade. [01:05:31.452 – 01:05:41.472] But dictating letters wasn't the only commotion going on at the o- at Honored D. office, Bill and AA's temporary headquarters

[01:05:41.472 – 01:05:42.032] that week. [01:05:42.032 – 01:05:52.192] The business had just gone through an upheaval, having moved with all their furniture from the ninth floor at 11 Hill S., where they had been located for at least a year and a half, [01:05:52.192 – 01:06:00.012] into smaller and more economical space around the corner and one block north at 17 Williams S.. [01:06:00.012 – 01:06:10.412] That kind of packing and unpacking is both time-consuming and disruptive, so it is not surprising Bill waited until Friday the 15th before heading over to Newark [01:06:10.412 – 01:06:12.772] for Ruth's help in typing these letters. [01:06:12.772 – 01:06:15.302] Footnote. [01:06:15.302 – 01:06:21.042] There's an old business maxim, two moves equals one fire, which may be appropriate here.

[01:06:21.042 – 01:06:31.092] Strangely, Bill didn't seem to have any idea Hank was planning to move Honored D. to a new location on July [01:06:31.092 – 01:06:31.412] 1st. [01:06:31.412 – 01:06:41.461] In his June 24th reply to the McGuire letter, he had noted, "This letter is being written from my home in Brooklyn so that you now have this [01:06:41.461 – 01:06:49.872] address as well as that of our Jersey office." But the only address McGuire had been given for the New Jersey office was 11 Hill S.. [01:06:49.872 – 01:06:55.132] It's hard to believe that Bill W. would have made this kind of mistake with such an important potential donor. [01:06:55.132 – 01:07:05.292] It is, of course, possible Bill was so completely disconnected from the day-to-day operations at Honored D. that he had no idea the lease was about to run out and that a move was [01:07:05.292 – 01:07:05.752] imminent.

[01:07:05.752 – 01:07:14.512] But it is also possible that Hank had gotten himself into some serious trouble with the Hill S. landlord and was forced into this hurried move at the last minute. [01:07:14.512 – 01:07:24.532] In any case, the lease for Hill S. was terminated at the end of June, and Honored D. began operating out of their new William S. location on [01:07:24.532 – 01:07:26.012] July 1st, 1938. [01:07:26.012 – 01:07:36.052] By J. 15th, when Ruth typed these letters, she was neatly crossing out the 11th Street line on the pre-printed Henry [01:07:36.052 – 01:07:36.072] G. [01:07:36.072 – 01:07:41.912] Parker stationery and typing in the 17 William S. address directly underneath it. [01:07:41.912 – 01:07:44.072] The new offices- Footnote.

[01:07:44.072 – 01:07:45.112] Footnote there. [01:07:45.112 – 01:07:54.272] Interestingly, only five of these eight letters, those going to Holman, S., R., A., and Ward, were typed using this pre-printed Henry G. [01:07:54.272 – 01:08:01.592] Parker's letterhead and were obviously meant to be seen as coming from the professional offices of Alcoholics Anonymous. [01:08:01.592 – 01:08:11.632] The other three letters to AA members, Hedges, Furlong, and Smith, were considered personal and therefore had the Brooklyn address listed at the top of the page as their [01:08:11.632 – 01:08:12.972] point of origin. [01:08:12.972 – 01:08:23.012] The new offices, a small two-room suite number 601, were on the sixth floor of [01:08:23.012 – 01:08:28.712] the building, and Hank's business would stay there throughout the time Bill wrote the remaining chapters of the Big Book.

[01:08:28.712 – 01:08:30.772] Ten months later, Henry G. [01:08:30.772 – 01:08:41.012] Parker I. was forced to move again, this time when the sheriff appeared at his door in May 1939 with an eviction notice for non-payment [01:08:41.012 – 01:08:41.472] of rent. [01:08:41.472 – 01:08:51.492] Even in the face of this disaster, the ever-resourceful Hank managed to negotiate a deal so that he and Ruth could move into a much smaller office [01:08:51.532 – 01:08:55.392] on the other side of the same floor of the building, number 604. [01:08:55.392 – 01:09:05.952] It was, Bill claimed, a tiny room barely big enough to contain Henry's large desk, his overstuffed chair, a couple of file cabinets, [01:09:05.952 – 01:09:07.482] and Ruth and her typewriter.

[01:09:07.482 – 01:09:11.352] For callers, there was standing room only. [01:09:11.352 – 01:09:15.332] Such was the rapidly declining fortune of Honored D.. [01:09:15.332 – 01:09:16.592] Dr. [01:09:16.592 – 01:09:18.712] R. approved of the book. [01:09:18.712 – 01:09:24.532] During the week following this flurry of communication, Bill received a letter from Dr. [01:09:24.532 – 01:09:30.472] Esther R., the v- that validated all his enthusiasm for the visit to John H.. [01:09:30.472 – 01:09:31.182] Dr.

[01:09:31.182 – 01:09:39.472] Homan had read the two chapters of the book almost immediately and had been lavished in his praise when Bill, Fitz, and Ebby visited him a few days later. [01:09:39.472 – 01:09:41.992] Although R. attended the second- [01:09:42.128 – 01:09:47.768] Reading, she had not yet read the two chapters and didn't do so until Sunday, July 14th. [01:09:47.768 – 01:09:53.388] But once done, she was equally impressed with the prospective package they had left her. [01:09:53.388 – 01:10:03.508] The very next day, she wrote Bill a letter expressing her enthusiastic support for the work he was doing, providing him with a testimonial lettle- letter full of [01:10:03.508 – 01:10:08.358] specific concrete professional praise for all of his recovery efforts. [01:10:08.358 – 01:10:13.168] Baltimore, Maryland, July 18th, 1938.

[01:10:13.168 – 01:10:13.568] Mr. [01:10:13.568 – 01:10:14.428] William G. [01:10:14.428 – 01:10:18.028] W., 182 Clinton S., Brooklyn, New York. [01:10:18.028 – 01:10:19.068] Dear Mr. [01:10:19.068 – 01:10:26.088] W., yesterday, for the first time, I had a chance to look over the prospectus of Alcoholics Anonymous. [01:10:26.088 – 01:10:35.588] I can give it no higher compliment than to say that I read through the first two chapters without stopping, so gripping was the presentation of the material. [01:10:35.588 – 01:10:41.828] If all the chapters are like these two, you will have a book that will hold its readers spellbound.

[01:10:41.828 – 01:10:47.147] These two chapters are the embodiment of what makes any book great. [01:10:47.147 – 01:10:54.288] They have something to say, and what they have to say is presented in clear, concise, graphic words. [01:10:54.288 – 01:11:01.048] It carries the reader on and on with pictures that tell their story of real-life facts. [01:11:01.048 – 01:11:07.728] There is no attempt at highbrow theories veneered with scientific and psychological wordiness. [01:11:07.728 – 01:11:10.968] What you say carried the conviction of truth. [01:11:10.968 – 01:11:18.968] I know that you have a great thing in this message, and if you keep it on the same plane, the book will go over hot. [01:11:18.968 – 01:11:21.868] I think you should get a number…

[01:11:21.868 – 01:11:32.168] You should get an A number one physician who has a wide knowledge of the alcoholic medical and social problems to write an introduction. [01:11:32.168 – 01:11:36.668] I am keeping the manuscript for a bit, but will return it presently. [01:11:36.668 – 01:11:41.768] I should indeed like to have the manuscript of the succeeding chapters when they are ready. [01:11:41.768 – 01:11:51.728] Needless to say, if there is anything I can do to be of help in the presentation of this book or in the furtherance of your work, I would consider it a privilege to be called upon. [01:11:51.728 – 01:11:57.348] With kind regards, I am very sincerely yours, Esther L. [01:11:57.348 – 01:11:58.888] R., Esther L. [01:11:58.888 – 01:12:00.088] R., MD.

[01:12:00.088 – 01:12:10.088] If W. had any doubts about his ability to write a book, this letter must have allayed at least some of those fears and convinced him that he did in fact [01:12:10.088 – 01:12:13.888] have the necessary talent to be an effective prose writer. [01:12:13.888 – 01:12:24.468] What could be more positive than R.' opinion that the chapters were gripping, that they would hold the reader spellbound, and her conviction that the word– the book would [01:12:24.468 – 01:12:27.568] go over hot once it was completed? [01:12:27.568 – 01:12:33.168] It's hard to imagine any letter being more favorable than this, even if Bill had written it himself. [01:12:33.168 – 01:12:35.348] W. had copies of Dr. [01:12:35.348 – 01:12:43.308] R.' letters made, and with this glowing testimonial was included in all future mailings that went out to prospective donors.

[01:12:43.308 – 01:12:50.097] The next Friday, Bill was once again in New Jersey, this time dictating a long reply to R.. [01:12:50.097 – 01:13:00.248] Given her open-ended invitation to be helpful in preparation of this book or in the furtherance of your work, W. was happy to explain to her in great detail [01:13:00.248 – 01:13:05.067] exactly where they were in the development of their program and what their immediate needs were. [01:13:05.067 – 01:13:09.168] Bill makes his case for signing donors. [01:13:09.168 – 01:13:19.248] He opened the letter with a half page of pleasantries, thanking R. for her spontaneous and enthusiastic reactions, and then offered her this perspective on the [01:13:19.248 – 01:13:21.728] origins of their program of recovery. [01:13:21.728 – 01:13:31.828] "As you see, we have been finding our way along in a way which we had feared was rather haphazard and amateurish, though some of us felt as long as

[01:13:31.828 – 01:13:42.768] three years ago that out of old and well-known elements we might compound a synthesis which would possess new and rather startling powers in this field." This [01:13:42.768 – 01:13:52.768] explanation of the origins of the AA program is wonderful in its candid admission of the debt they owe to old and well-known elements, while [01:13:52.768 – 01:14:00.968] simultaneously claiming that the synthesis they have forged from these elements was something new and startling in its effectiveness. [01:14:00.968 – 01:14:07.448] Having dispensed with formalities, Bill began his presentation of their current dilemma. [01:14:07.448 – 01:14:17.448] "Our work thus far has been on a part-time, voluntary basis, but we have now come to a new phase of the work, and there is one aspect [01:14:17.448 – 01:14:20.928] of it which we are approaching very gingerly and reluctantly. [01:14:20.928 – 01:14:28.988] That is the question of how we can carry on from this point without several individuals spending the greater part of their time at it.

[01:14:28.988 – 01:14:39.028] The publication of this book, the acceleration of our personal work, the building up of sufficient individuals who will be trained to cope with the influx of new patients [01:14:39.028 – 01:14:41.988] who are bound to appear as soon as the book is published. [01:14:41.988 – 01:14:45.008] How to handle this situation has been a puzzle. [01:14:45.008 – 01:14:55.048] Those of us who ought to be spending for the next year or two a great deal of time in the work are confronted by the necessity of either being subsidized to do [01:14:55.048 – 01:15:00.108] so or else letting up on the alcoholic activity and paying more attention to business. [01:15:00.108 – 01:15:03.698] Most of us feel that this thing has to go on if we have-" [01:15:03.804 – 01:15:05.884] To live in tents.

[01:15:05.884 – 01:15:09.844] A beginning, a beginning has been made by some friends of Mr. [01:15:09.844 – 01:15:16.664] R., and a very modest subsidy has been placed at the disposal of one of our more effective men. [01:15:16.664 – 01:15:24.724] Footnote: Another explicit mention of the fact that R.'s contribution was meant specifically for Dr. [01:15:24.724 – 01:15:30.604] Bob S., and not for any other members of the fellowship, however needy they might be. [01:15:30.604 – 01:15:37.824] One of our most effective men, who has a group of about 70 cases in Akron, Ohio. [01:15:37.824 – 01:15:43.344] This man is a surgeon who has been obliged to neglect his practice in order to keep up the work. [01:15:43.344 – 01:15:50.824] The underwriting takes care of his bare necessities for a year, with the thought that he will secure some additional surgical work.

[01:15:50.824 – 01:16:01.104] Though we are most anxious that this thing not be professionalized or, or that no one have a vested interest in the job, it begins [01:16:01.104 – 01:16:10.184] to look as though several more people will have to be similarly provided for to carry our experiment on for another year and to get our, get out our book. [01:16:10.184 – 01:16:20.364] W.'s key emphasis here is on the very temporary nature of their need for a subsidy to support several more people so they can carry [01:16:20.364 – 01:16:20.984] on the work. [01:16:20.984 – 01:16:28.944] But he claims this need for financial help should go away rather quickly once the book is published, allowing them to become self-supporting. [01:16:28.944 – 01:16:39.104] We feel that the book will provide some revenue, and that at a later date we can easily fill any number of sanitariums with these people if it became apparent [01:16:39.104 – 01:16:41.624] to the public that any of them were really getting well.

[01:16:41.624 – 01:16:46.664] So we are positive that the time will eventually come when we will be self-supporting. [01:16:46.664 – 01:16:57.024] But temperament, we are a pr- But by temperament, we are a pretty independent lot, and do not like being subsidized by charitable [01:16:57.024 – 01:16:57.734] sources. [01:16:57.734 – 01:17:03.434] Nor would we care to be taken care of by any of the large foundations or churches. [01:17:03.434 – 01:17:10.684] Our power for good depends to quite an extent on absolute independence of religious sects or institutions. [01:17:10.684 – 01:17:16.824] We are seeking to make our experience available on a universal and worldwide basis. [01:17:16.824 – 01:17:24.024] Hence, we would prefer not to become too heavily committed in any way to any person or denomination.

[01:17:24.024 – 01:17:34.384] This is a revealing paragraph with its vision of any number of sanitariums under their control, and his unequivocally stated position of absolute [01:17:34.384 – 01:17:37.624] independence of religious sects and institutions. [01:17:37.624 – 01:17:47.624] The integrity of both of these important features was to be ensured by a foundation, here creatively called Fellowship A., [01:17:47.624 – 01:17:49.384] that they are in the process of setting up. [01:17:49.384 – 01:17:58.044] This foundation will administer the funds they collect in such a fashion that their work will be above reproach or criticism by skeptics. [01:17:58.044 – 01:18:05.204] We are setting up a sort of foundation of our own, which will be called, let us say, Fellowship A.. [01:18:05.204 – 01:18:11.004] This will be administered by non-alcoholics who are responsible and disinterested.

[01:18:11.004 – 01:18:15.224] All of our money transactions will be handled through the corporation. [01:18:15.224 – 01:18:25.584] This is best thing we– This is the best thing we could think of to forestall any criticism that as individuals we are trying to capitalize our knowledge of what to do for all alcohol- [01:18:25.584 – 01:18:26.404] Whoa, excuse me. [01:18:26.404 – 01:18:27.784] Wow. [01:18:27.784 – 01:18:36.624] This is the best thing we can think of to forestall any criticism that as individuals we are trying to capitalize our knowledge of what to do for alcoholics. [01:18:36.624 – 01:18:46.684] W. then follows with the interesting conviction that the most likely source of donations to this foundation will be the great but [01:18:46.684 – 01:18:49.044] soulless corporations of America.

[01:18:49.044 – 01:18:54.224] Our idea in raising funds is to go to the large corporations. [01:18:54.224 – 01:18:58.434] These companies are riddled with alcoholics, both actual and potential. [01:18:58.434 – 01:19:05.704] We can offer them our services, and I have no doubt we can return a lot of talented men to their jobs. [01:19:05.704 – 01:19:14.104] Therefore, a corporation, however soulless, has a direct financial interest in such a result. [01:19:14.104 – 01:19:20.064] One of my best friends- Footnote: Hank P. … [01:19:20.064 – 01:19:26.944] used to make forty thousand a year with the Standard O. Company, and they had to let him go because of drinking. [01:19:26.944 – 01:19:34.444] It cost them a lot of money to train him for such a responsible position, and a lot more to train a man to fill his place.

[01:19:34.444 – 01:19:38.004] Why, then, should not such a company contribute to our fund? [01:19:38.004 – 01:19:42.504] They will spend millions to find a new kind of solder for a tin can. [01:19:42.504 – 01:19:48.024] So we think they will help along our experiment for much the same reason. [01:19:48.024 – 01:19:58.204] The notion that a corporation willing to spend millions to find a new kind of solder for a tin can should also be willing to spend a few thousand dollars [01:19:58.204 – 01:20:08.204] to preserve their investment in talented personnel is an argument Bill used in more than one letter, and it seems safe to assume was also a part of the presentations [01:20:08.204 – 01:20:13.364] he made to wealthy industrialists whenever he was given the chance to do so in person. [01:20:13.364 – 01:20:23.364] At this time, John H. was the richest and best-funded hospital in the country, so W. closed his letter with a veiled suggestion that perhaps

[01:20:23.364 – 01:20:23.444] Dr. [01:20:23.444 – 01:20:25.374] Esther R. might have- [01:20:25.500 – 01:20:28.500] Some knowledge of one or more of these wealthy donors. [01:20:28.500 – 01:20:36.500] I hope I have not been taking liberties in writing you at length, at this length, but we want your real opinion touching these matters. [01:20:36.500 – 01:20:40.480] Perhaps you can make some helpful suggestions or criticisms. [01:20:40.480 – 01:20:50.500] Two and a half weeks later, when Esther R. finally responds to Bill, she gratefully sidesteps the entire issue of money and the questions of who might be [01:20:50.500 – 01:21:00.440] a potential donor, focusing instead on her contention that there are a large number of mentally challenged people who would not be suitable candidates for W.'s brand of recovery.

[01:21:00.440 – 01:21:09.270] Her tacit response made it clear that Bill should not expect to receive any help locating or courting donors from that particular source. [01:21:09.270 – 01:21:12.730] A high-profile connection, Dr. [01:21:12.730 – 01:21:13.980] Richard C.. [01:21:13.980 – 01:21:24.320] Either late that same day or sometimes over the weekend, Bill W. visited Town H. where he met with both, both Charles [01:21:24.320 – 01:21:25.029] T. and Dr. [01:21:25.029 – 01:21:26.180] William S.. [01:21:26.180 – 01:21:32.240] He wanted to strategize with them about how he could most effectively approach potential donors.

[01:21:32.240 – 01:21:39.180] And in the course of these discussions, he asked both men for their written recommendations concerning the work they were doing. [01:21:39.180 – 01:21:49.700] In addition, he requested their help in soliciting the support of other medical authorities, hopefully famous doctors whose names could be instant- instantly [01:21:49.700 – 01:21:52.860] recognizable to the wealthy patrons of New York City. [01:21:52.860 – 01:22:02.880] On M., T. wrote to Bill, July 25th, 1938: "My dear W., after our talk, I thought this matter over, and as I had promised to write something [01:22:02.880 – 01:22:09.119] to you regarding the work, and I thought this was an unusual opportunity for me to state all of the findings to Dr. [01:22:09.119 – 01:22:13.720] Cabot, and in this way kill two birds with one stone. [01:22:13.720 – 01:22:16.140] Very truly yours, Charles B.

[01:22:16.140 – 01:22:20.660] T.." Although the T. letter to Dr. [01:22:20.660 – 01:22:21.660] Cabot had… [01:22:21.660 – 01:22:24.480] Am I pronouncing that correctly, Bill? [01:22:24.480 – 01:22:25.680] Cabot. [01:22:25.680 – 01:22:26.380] Does it matter? [01:22:26.380 – 01:22:27.290] Cabot? [01:22:27.290 – 01:22:27.300] Cabot.

[01:22:27.300 – 01:22:29.670] Oh, thank you . [01:22:29.670 – 01:22:31.280] Although the T. letter to Dr. [01:22:31.280 – 01:22:41.320] Cabot had not been fully preserved, this letter was positive enough that Bill included a copy of it in the future solicitation packages he [01:22:41.320 – 01:22:42.630] sent out to prospects. [01:22:42.630 – 01:22:44.489] Dr. [01:22:44.489 – 01:22:49.200] Richard C. Cabot was famous not only for his prestigious lineage. [01:22:49.200 – 01:22:58.180] So this is good old Boston, the home of the bean and the cold, where the Lowells talk only to the Cabots, and the Cabots talk only to God.

[01:22:58.180 – 01:23:01.690] But also for his- Note. [01:23:01.690 – 01:23:12.480] Doggerel poem, Boston T. by Harvard alumnus John C. Bosady, with a Wicked- Wikipedia reference following But [01:23:12.480 – 01:23:16.620] also for his tireless advocacy of the downtrodden and the poor. [01:23:16.620 – 01:23:26.940] He believed that economic, social, family, and psychological conditions underpinned many of the problems that patients brought to the outpatient department he ran at Massachusetts [01:23:26.940 – 01:23:28.120] General H.. [01:23:28.120 – 01:23:38.120] In 1905, Cabot invented the position of social worker to z- assist him at the hospital, and even went so far as to pay her salary when [01:23:38.120 – 01:23:40.020] the hospital refused to do so.

[01:23:40.020 – 01:23:50.020] When C. finally left Mass G. in 1919 to take up the chair of Harvard's Department of Social E., the hospital finally agreed to pay the wages of the [01:23:50.020 – 01:23:53.600] 13 social workers he had personally employed for the past several years. [01:23:53.600 – 01:23:54.620] Dr. [01:23:54.620 – 01:24:04.660] Cabot was also a medical in- innovator in the field of hematology, and the author of more than a dozen books relating to medical, social, and ethical [01:24:04.660 – 01:24:05.080] topics. [01:24:05.080 – 01:24:15.100] Shortly after Charles T.' letter was mailed, Bill followed up by sending Cabot a copy of the two chapters of the proposed book along with his own [01:24:15.100 – 01:24:21.250] personal appeal, repeating many of the details and even some of the phrases he had used in his letter to Dr.

[01:24:21.250 – 01:24:21.880] R.. [01:24:21.880 – 01:24:24.400] July 1938, Dr. [01:24:24.400 – 01:24:25.360] Richard C. [01:24:25.360 – 01:24:28.980] Cabot, 101 Brattle S., Cambridge, Massachusetts. [01:24:28.980 – 01:24:29.780] Dear Dr. [01:24:29.780 – 01:24:31.220] Cabot, Mr. [01:24:31.220 – 01:24:31.900] Charles B.

[01:24:31.900 – 01:24:39.260] T. tells me he has written to you concerning some work which has been going on among alcoholics here in New York and in Akron, Ohio. [01:24:39.260 – 01:24:49.020] At his request, I am enclosing the two opening chapters of an anonymous volume, which we shall publish sometime during the next 12 months. [01:24:49.020 – 01:24:55.440] This material will, will give you the general idea of the nature and temper of our work. [01:24:55.440 – 01:25:05.460] As you will see, we have taken certain old and well-known elements and have related them in such a way as to produce a synthesis which has some [01:25:05.460 – 01:25:08.520] new and novel results and characteristics. [01:25:08.520 – 01:25:18.560] You will observe the central idea is that an alcoholic who has had a spiritual experience upon the simple basis which is outlined, and who [01:25:18.560 – 01:25:28.660] is armed with certain information about the physical and mental aspects of his own malady, can apparently do for another sufferer those things rarely, if ever,

[01:25:28.660 – 01:25:30.760] accomplished by a non-alcoholic. [01:25:30.760 – 01:25:41.460] The great promise of the thing, of course, is that each man in his turn must see that still others recover [01:25:41.460 – 01:25:43.020] or perhaps perish himself. [01:25:43.020 – 01:25:47.080] This provides impetus and a growth possibility which great- [01:25:47.196 – 01:25:50.866] Really cites the imagination of those of us who are close to the situation. [01:25:50.866 – 01:26:00.996] We have never developed any accurate statistical information, but I should say that we have dealt with about 200 cases in all, about half of whom seem [01:26:00.996 – 01:26:01.836] to have recovered.

[01:26:01.836 – 01:26:10.316] Doctors tell us that almost without exception, we have been problem drinkers of a class commonly regarded as next to hopeless. [01:26:10.316 – 01:26:20.336] We want to place these facts in your possession for whatever use they may be to you, and it may be that you would like to investigate or become in some fashion or other [01:26:20.336 – 01:26:21.396] a part of our efforts. [01:26:21.396 – 01:26:29.936] As you see, we are about to publish a book, and in addition, it has become necessary for a number of individuals to spend much time at the work. [01:26:29.936 – 01:26:36.336] We think that within a year, the work, through channels unnecessary to discuss here, will become self-supporting. [01:26:36.336 – 01:26:39.636] In the meantime, we frankly need some assistance. [01:26:39.636 – 01:26:46.516] It seems right that you should know these facts, so I hope you will not regard this letter as a solici- solicitation for contribution.

[01:26:46.516 – 01:26:51.636] However, your personal interest, advice, and approval will be much prized by all of us. [01:26:51.636 – 01:26:53.976] Sincerely yours, William G. [01:26:53.976 – 01:26:56.956] W., W.G.W., colon, R.H. [01:26:56.956 – 01:27:02.816] There is no known response for Kravitz, and it is unlikely he even bothered to write back. [01:27:02.816 – 01:27:11.616] A very predictable reaction given his notoriety, his current retirement, and the fact that he was in failing health and died just nine months later. [01:27:11.616 – 01:27:13.616] The Silforth letter. [01:27:13.616 – 01:27:19.736] While C. Townes' testimonial letter generated no lasting results, Bill's request that Dr.

[01:27:19.736 – 01:27:25.616] Silforth write about the success of their work did produce something of genuine importance. [01:27:25.616 – 01:27:35.656] As his endorsement, Silforth sent Bill the following letter of introduction, a letter which would later become, in slightly modified form, an integral part of The [01:27:35.656 – 01:27:38.776] Doctor's Opinion, the opening chapter of The Big Book. [01:27:38.776 – 01:27:41.576] July 27th, 1938. [01:27:41.576 – 01:27:43.816] To whom it may concern. [01:27:43.816 – 01:27:47.916] I have specialized in the treatment of alcoholism for many years. [01:27:47.916 – 01:27:52.116] About four years ago, I attended a patient by the name of William G.

[01:27:52.116 – 01:27:52.636] W.. [01:27:52.636 – 01:28:00.436] Though he had been a competent businessman of good earning capacity, he was an alcoholic of a type I had come to regard as hopeless. [01:28:00.436 – 01:28:06.856] In the course of his third treatment, he acquired certain ideas concerning a possible means of recovery. [01:28:06.856 – 01:28:17.216] As a part of his rehabilitation, he commenced to present his conceptions to other alcoholics, impressing upon them that they must do likewise with still others. [01:28:17.216 – 01:28:22.896] This has become the basis of a rapidly growing fellowship of these men and their families. [01:28:22.896 – 01:28:27.216] This man and over 100 others appear to have recovered. [01:28:27.216 – 01:28:36.096] I personally know thirty of these cases who are of types upon which other methods have failed completely.

[01:28:36.096 – 01:28:39.196] These facts appear to be of extreme medical importance. [01:28:39.196 – 01:28:48.996] Because of the extraordinary possibilities of rapid growth inherent in this group, these events may mark a new epoch in the annals of alcoholism. [01:28:48.996 – 01:28:53.636] These men may well have a solution for thousands of these situations. [01:28:53.636 – 01:28:57.836] You may rely absolutely on anything they say about themselves. [01:28:57.836 – 01:29:00.176] Very truly yours, W.D. [01:29:00.176 – 01:29:02.276] Silforth, M.D., W.C. [01:29:02.276 – 01:29:03.376] Silforth, M.D.

[01:29:03.376 – 01:29:13.435] The doctors had obviously accepted W.'s contention that there were more than 100 current success stories in AA, and he [01:29:13.436 – 01:29:22.736] bolstered this claim by saying he personally knew 30 of these cases in New York, leaving a balance of the oft-noted 70 members in Akron. [01:29:22.736 – 01:29:29.336] Before being published in The Big Book, the specific reference to a patient by the name of William G. [01:29:29.336 – 01:29:33.196] W. was removed, and the single word "who" was substituted. [01:29:33.196 – 01:29:39.256] There were some other minor cosmetic changes made to the text, but the substance of the letter was left untouched. [01:29:39.256 – 01:29:43.496] Bill's cover letter for the book proposal. [01:29:43.496 – 01:29:53.716] Having collected all these glowing references, the final element Bill needed was a cover letter to introduce these endorsements and the two chapters of

[01:29:53.716 – 01:29:55.756] their proposed book to prominent businessmen. [01:29:55.756 – 01:30:05.806] The form letter he created contained a brief and excellent presentation of his case and ended with a classic salesman's closer, his request for an appointment to discuss the matter [01:30:05.806 – 01:30:06.416] further. [01:30:06.416 – 01:30:14.736] 182 Clinton S., Brooklyn, New York. [01:30:14.736 – 01:30:20.976] During the past four years, approximately 100 men have recovered from acute alcoholism. [01:30:20.976 – 01:30:28.876] We have been told by authorities at the Johns H. Hospital that persons of this class are largely incurable by medical means. [01:30:28.876 – 01:30:35.456] As you are no doubt aware, alcoholism ranks with cancer and tuberculosis as a problem.

[01:30:35.456 – 01:30:40.896] Economically and socially, it is more destructive than ever, than either. [01:30:40.896 – 01:30:47.816] The United States is said to contain one million people who are actual or potential alcoholics. [01:30:47.816 – 01:30:52.496] This refers to those who are really sick and not to those who merely drink too much. [01:30:52.496 – 01:30:58.996] Until recently, there has been no answer for any substantial part of those who suffer from this common malady. [01:30:58.996 – 01:31:08.546] As a citizen and a businessman, we think you will be interested to know that this group of 100 men have apparently found the answer to a [01:31:08.932 – 01:31:10.532] "A baffling human problem. [01:31:10.532 – 01:31:15.412] Enough has been done to suggest that wholesale recoveries may be possible.

[01:31:15.412 – 01:31:21.872] Medical men who understand our procedure express this opinion, as the attached letters suggest. [01:31:21.872 – 01:31:24.192] One of these is an introduction from Mr. [01:31:24.192 – 01:31:25.211] Albert L. [01:31:25.211 – 01:31:32.852] S., who is president of Lockwood G. Engineers I., and also chairman of the board of trustees of the Riverside C.. [01:31:32.852 – 01:31:37.532] He has taken a nationally prominent part in studies of the alcoholic problem. [01:31:37.532 – 01:31:38.751] Dr. [01:31:38.751 – 01:31:39.292] W.D.

[01:31:39.292 – 01:31:42.082] Silworth of T. Hospital in New York City, and Dr. [01:31:42.082 – 01:31:43.452] Esther L. [01:31:43.452 – 01:31:49.412] R. of the psychiatric department of the John H. Hospital further vouch for what is taking place. [01:31:49.412 – 01:31:55.932] Our fellowship is about to publish an anonymous book describing our experiences and methods. [01:31:55.932 – 01:32:02.612] This book ought to drive the entering wedge for an expansion of our activities. [01:32:02.612 – 01:32:08.122] As you will see from the attached manuscript, we are not reformers in the usual sense of the word. [01:32:08.122 – 01:32:12.052] We merely wish to be helpful to those who suffer from alcoholism.

[01:32:12.052 – 01:32:15.492] Our services have been entirely voluntary and free. [01:32:15.492 – 01:32:25.492] As one of our fellowship, approaching you with two things in mind: Our work has now reached the stage where we frankly need the assistance of a number of [01:32:25.492 – 01:32:27.192] men prominent in American life. [01:32:27.192 – 01:32:33.072] The second point is that we wish to make our knowledge and methods more useful to the American home and business. [01:32:33.072 – 01:32:37.872] Should we, should you wish to see me, when may I call upon you? [01:32:37.872 – 01:32:40.412] Sincerely yours, William G. [01:32:40.412 – 01:32:50.552] W., WGW:RH." Bill had spent the entire month of July soliciting testimonials praising the work AA was doing in the hope these

[01:32:50.552 – 01:32:59.011] professional endorsements would prove to be the perfect introduction for him and his organization as they approached some of the richest men in the country for donations. [01:32:59.011 – 01:33:05.912] Who could possibly resist their request for contributions in the light of these overwhelmingly positive statements? [01:33:05.912 – 01:33:07.752] That was the theory. [01:33:07.752 – 01:33:12.132] Now it was time to find out if that theory would actually work in practice. [01:33:12.132 – 01:33:13.412] Oh, that's a great job. [01:33:13.412 – 01:33:14.612] T- superb, Jackie. [01:33:14.612 – 01:33:16.672] And Riley, thank you very much for the footnotes.

[01:33:16.672 – 01:33:18.911] Please unmute if you'd like to show some appreciation. [01:33:18.911 – 01:33:19.371] Thank you. [01:33:19.371 – 01:33:21.132] Great job, Jackie, Riley. [01:33:21.132 – 01:33:21.962] Great job. [01:33:21.962 – 01:33:22.601] Thank you, Jackie. [01:33:22.601 – 01:33:23.992] Thank you, Riley. [01:33:23.992 – 01:33:25.682] Thank you.

[01:33:25.682 – 01:33:25.683] Thank you. [01:33:25.683 – 01:33:26.452] Riley, too. [01:33:26.452 – 01:33:27.082] Nice one. [01:33:27.082 – 01:33:28.392] Awesome job. [01:33:28.392 – 01:33:29.612] Thank you so much. [01:33:29.612 – 01:33:31.482] Thank you. [01:33:31.482 – 01:33:31.532] Yeah.

[01:33:31.532 – 01:33:37.012] Jackie, it's on- Jackie, it, it's only after you've finished reading that, that I tell you it's the longest read that we have. [01:33:37.012 – 01:33:41.152] The only other chapter that's longer than it is 28 pages, and we split that into two meetings. [01:33:41.152 – 01:33:42.422] So, uh- … [01:33:42.422 – 01:33:44.552] congratulations on getting through that. [01:33:44.552 – 01:33:46.342] Well done, Jackie. [01:33:46.342 – 01:33:46.932] It's a long chapter. [01:33:46.932 – 01:33:47.992] Thank you, Bill.

[01:33:47.992 – 01:33:49.672] So what we're gonna do, we're gonna have a Q&A session. [01:33:49.672 – 01:33:56.732] Now, we have Bill S., I believe, up to about, uh, t- half past 9:00 in the UK, so that would be half past 4:00, I think, your time, Bill. [01:33:56.732 – 01:33:57.192] Is that right? [01:33:57.192 – 01:33:57.642] That's right. [01:33:57.642 – 01:33:58.432] We have Bill. [01:33:58.432 – 01:33:59.792] If you'd please make use of that time. [01:33:59.792 – 01:34:02.372] And with that, I'm gonna s- go straight over to Jim R..

[01:34:02.372 – 01:34:04.852] And, uh, all right. [01:34:04.852 – 01:34:05.572] Good afternoon. [01:34:05.572 – 01:34:07.262] We're gonna, uh, go into the Q&A. [01:34:07.262 – 01:34:15.112] Please try and keep the questions on, uh, on the topic today, uh, about this chapter and the testimonials. [01:34:15.112 – 01:34:18.452] You can also feel free to, uh, put your questions in the chat. [01:34:18.452 – 01:34:22.612] But please raise your hand, uh, as we see that Carl B. [01:34:22.612 – 01:34:23.352] has done.

[01:34:23.352 – 01:34:24.732] Carl, go right ahead. [01:34:24.732 – 01:34:30.512] Bill, thank you, Jim, and thanks, uh, to our reader today. [01:34:30.512 – 01:34:40.732] Um, I think there's been discussion in the past among many of the historians as to whether Bill was hospitalized either three or four times in, uh, T. Hospital. [01:34:40.732 – 01:34:42.252] I'm wondering if Dr. [01:34:42.252 – 01:34:47.872] Silworth's letter here, uh, he indicates in the course of his third treatment. [01:34:47.872 – 01:34:53.672] Would that leave a little more credence to that he was hospitalized at T. three and not four times? [01:34:53.672 – 01:34:59.912] Yeah, Carl, it's, it's, it's an inter- it's one of those things that people stumble over all the time.

[01:34:59.912 – 01:35:10.342] There's different ways of, of reading Bill's own stories and his own comments on this and, and, uh, I got a footnote someplace in the book that talks about Bill, Bill implies that he was there four times, [01:35:10.342 – 01:35:10.692] you know? [01:35:10.692 – 01:35:12.772] So which w- I don't know. [01:35:12.772 – 01:35:13.632] You know, the… [01:35:13.632 – 01:35:17.572] I, I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday. [01:35:17.572 – 01:35:19.952] So I get, I get things wrong all the time, you know? [01:35:19.952 – 01:35:22.252] And, uh, and I'm, I'm not sure how accurate…

[01:35:22.252 – 01:35:26.312] I, I mean, you would think that Silworth would get it right, but maybe not. [01:35:26.312 – 01:35:26.731] You know? [01:35:26.731 – 01:35:27.612] I, I don't know. [01:35:27.612 – 01:35:29.892] I still don't know whether he was there three or four times. [01:35:29.892 – 01:35:30.692] Okay. [01:35:30.692 – 01:35:31.172] Thank you. [01:35:31.172 – 01:35:32.952] Thank you, Carl.

[01:35:32.952 – 01:35:36.572] Anyone else have a question for, uh, our author, Mr. [01:35:36.572 – 01:35:38.752] Scheberg, while he's here? [01:35:38.752 – 01:35:42.212] I know everybody likes to wait till the last minute. [01:35:42.212 – 01:35:44.332] Don't do that today 'cause he has to leave. [01:35:44.332 – 01:35:48.612] Who would like to… [01:35:48.612 – 01:35:50.212] Patrick, uh, did you… [01:35:50.212 – 01:35:55.322] W- you, you waving your hand or just, uh- No, I was moving around.

[01:35:55.322 – 01:35:59.292] I had one thing right towards the end which was interesting. [01:35:59.292 – 01:36:08.592] I, I think I must have missed it the first time I read your book, was that this, uh, Richard C., um, I think it was Drew came up, we… [01:36:08.592 – 01:36:18.592] There was a T. Hospital in Brookline, Massachusetts, and Richard C. was the medical director, and I believe that that was sometimes in the teens. [01:36:18.592 – 01:36:28.652] So C. was, was involved with, uh, Charlie T. way back when, and he was a very famous doctor around here, too, and he was very big with the Emmanuel [01:36:28.652 – 01:36:30.432] Movement in the, uh- [01:36:30.648 – 01:36:33.488] In the, in their original findings back around 1910. [01:36:33.488 – 01:36:38.288] So he was a player, particularly with outpatient services right from the beginning.

[01:36:38.288 – 01:36:43.568] He helped them set up their clinics that started off with tuberculosis and then expanded. [01:36:43.568 – 01:36:46.648] But, uh, he was, he was a big guy in the game. [01:36:46.648 – 01:36:50.408] Patrick, that's great informa- I, I've never heard any of that stuff. [01:36:50.408 – 01:36:52.388] I should check in with you and Drew about that. [01:36:52.388 – 01:36:57.468] But yeah, it's, it's just Cabot was, he was definitely a player in the Boston area, you know? [01:36:57.468 – 01:37:05.868] I mean, I, I love the fact that he invents social workers and pays for them by himself, so the, so that he's got 13 of them when he… [01:37:05.868 – 01:37:09.888] I j- I just think that's just an amazing, an amazing human being, you know?

[01:37:09.888 – 01:37:10.488] Yeah. [01:37:10.488 – 01:37:11.228] So thank you. [01:37:11.228 – 01:37:20.328] Well, he was the one that brought the social w- he took his own social workers, and they were the backbone for the Emmanuel C.- Okay … [01:37:20.328 – 01:37:21.218] back in the '10s. [01:37:21.218 – 01:37:21.888] That's all. [01:37:21.888 – 01:37:22.408] Yeah. [01:37:22.408 – 01:37:23.688] Thank you, Patrick.

[01:37:23.688 – 01:37:27.248] And Bill Lyons, another Or- Oregonian. [01:37:27.248 – 01:37:30.288] Yes, thank you. [01:37:30.288 – 01:37:36.578] Uh, Bill, probably this, uh, is not part of your research, but I was just curious. [01:37:36.578 – 01:37:45.348] Uh, Charles H., the doctor who found a local Oxford group to attend in, in, uh, Virginia, I think it was. [01:37:45.348 – 01:37:49.668] Uh, how plentiful were the Oxford groups? [01:37:49.668 – 01:37:51.248] Were they like AA today? [01:37:51.248 – 01:37:53.338] Was there one in every city?

[01:37:53.338 – 01:37:57.048] Or, you know, did it ever grow to the size of AA? [01:37:57.048 – 01:37:59.928] Bill, you're, you're right. [01:37:59.928 – 01:38:03.148] I have no idea how widespread those things were. [01:38:03.148 – 01:38:05.048] I know there were hotspots. [01:38:05.048 – 01:38:15.048] I know that there, there's a letter I know that where Bill W. goes to a, a house party down someplace in Virginia at one point, but, but whether it was as far into Virginia [01:38:15.048 – 01:38:18.748] as, as the, the Norfolk area where this guy was, I don't really know. [01:38:18.748 – 01:38:25.808] Um, it, it, it, it, it, I presume, you know, Bill W. talks about him being over-grouped.

[01:38:25.808 – 01:38:31.668] So, uh, you know, he, I, I suspect he had some sort of face-to-face contact with Oxford group people. [01:38:31.668 – 01:38:38.348] But, you know, that could've been the sort of thing where you drive up to Richmond, you know, to, on Sundays to, to, to, to make that happen. [01:38:38.348 – 01:38:40.768] I, I don't know anything about that, I'm afraid. [01:38:40.768 – 01:38:42.428] Thank you. [01:38:42.428 – 01:38:44.108] Tha- thank you, Bill. [01:38:44.108 – 01:38:45.328] And Bill. [01:38:45.328 – 01:38:47.588] Uh, anyone else have a question?

[01:38:47.588 – 01:38:53.908] Reading the Big Book, the testimonials that we read today. [01:38:53.908 – 01:38:57.388] And, uh, our great reader, Jackie D. [01:38:57.388 – 01:38:59.668] Hi. [01:38:59.668 – 01:39:00.508] Thank you all. [01:39:00.508 – 01:39:05.708] Uh, Bill, I found the letter particularly, uh, um, where Bill W. [01:39:05.708 – 01:39:15.908] talked about, uh, Christ to be very interesting because, um, it's not, it's not language I, I, um, I'm, I'm, I was used to hearing Bill [01:39:15.908 – 01:39:19.857] talk about in some of the letter, personal letters I'd seen.

[01:39:19.857 – 01:39:21.498] Were there other examples of this? [01:39:21.498 – 01:39:27.048] I, I understand that he was comfortable kind of talking to people in, in their own language kind of. [01:39:27.048 – 01:39:37.188] Um, but is there any other, did you see any other examples of that or any indication of Bill's own religious convictions at this point other than, [01:39:37.188 – 01:39:39.148] you know, the great reality behind… [01:39:39.148 – 01:39:44.148] I've, I always thought of Bill as a perennialist later in, in his life. [01:39:44.148 – 01:39:44.588] Yeah. [01:39:44.588 – 01:39:45.388] Um, so.

[01:39:45.388 – 01:39:55.488] Yeah, we, we're gonna come to a letter where a guy writes him in, uh, in I think early 1940 saying, you know, "How come you guys left the [01:39:55.488 – 01:40:05.708] Oxford group?" And he, there's a long letter there where he talks about that, and he talks about his, his, how, what, what he thinks about Christ and, and, and, and how he interprets Christ, [01:40:05.708 – 01:40:06.208] you know? [01:40:06.208 – 01:40:11.318] And, uh, yeah, I think he was, we always think of him as a perennialist because- Yeah … [01:40:11.318 – 01:40:13.848] because that God as we understand him thing, you know? [01:40:13.848 – 01:40:20.958] It, it, it just opens the door to any kind of interpretation even though Bill meant any kind of, uh, providential God. [01:40:20.958 – 01:40:22.248] I understand that, you know.

[01:40:22.248 – 01:40:29.568] But, but, uh, he, I don't think he ever gave up on, on that providential God thing as far as he went, you know? [01:40:29.568 – 01:40:39.748] And, uh, and, and I think he saw Christ as just one of the, uh, most prominent ways to explain that to people and to talk to people about it so, so they understood what he was talking about. [01:40:39.748 – 01:40:40.788] Yeah, I th- I agree with you. [01:40:40.788 – 01:40:49.607] I think he, you know, my friend Jay S. always reminds me that, that Frank B. always said, "Meet a man where he is." Meet a man where he is. [01:40:49.607 – 01:40:55.648] So I, you know, I, I think W. certainly would've picked up on that sort of, uh, uh, doctrine. [01:40:55.648 – 01:40:57.368] That, I mean, that was really, really a thing. [01:40:57.368 – 01:41:03.068] Uh, Jay, Jay, Jay assures me that was a big thing in the Oxford group, meet a man where he is.

[01:41:03.068 – 01:41:08.708] So, uh, so yeah, I, I, I just presume that his response to Ralph was all about, uh, or I mean to R.E. [01:41:08.708 – 01:41:13.448] was all about, uh, mentions that he had made in his letter to specifically to Christ. [01:41:13.448 – 01:41:14.368] Yeah. [01:41:14.368 – 01:41:21.148] A- I mean, I also know he, uh, was very close to, um, converting to Catholicism at one point. [01:41:21.148 – 01:41:21.378] Yeah. [01:41:21.378 – 01:41:28.678] But, um, he didn't want to commit to 100% of the doctrine according to his letters at least, some of them. [01:41:28.678 – 01:41:30.988] Yeah, he, he had a couple of serious problems with that.

[01:41:30.988 – 01:41:37.228] But he, yeah, he took, took, uh, took conversion, uh, lessons with, uh, Fulton J. [01:41:37.228 – 01:41:43.678] Sheen, you know, who when I was growing up as a Roman C., we used to watch him on, I think Saturday or Sundays. [01:41:43.678 – 01:41:44.328] I can't remember. [01:41:44.328 – 01:41:49.888] He was on, he was on local television giving, giving religious talks in his cassock, you know? [01:41:49.888 – 01:41:52.178] Can't find a priest in a, in a cassock any- [01:41:52.354 – 01:41:55.184] anymore these days, but, uh, it was a big thing back then. [01:41:55.184 – 01:41:59.764] I had a cassock when I was in the seminary Thank you.

[01:41:59.764 – 01:42:02.314] Uh, thank you Bill, and Jackie for the question. [01:42:02.314 – 01:42:04.704] Then we have Dan T from Australia. [01:42:04.704 – 01:42:08.264] Yeah, thanks Jim. [01:42:08.264 – 01:42:15.564] Uh, Bill, uh, just that Dr L. Holman that was mentioned there this morning. [01:42:15.564 – 01:42:23.644] I've just read there on page 43, "Many doctors and psychiatrists agree with our conclusions." One of these men, staff member of a world renown hospital. [01:42:23.644 – 01:42:27.824] But would, uh, that be… [01:42:27.824 – 01:42:29.964] I've, I've, I was always told that.

[01:42:29.964 – 01:42:36.864] Now, I don't know, like, you talk about Cabot, Cabo or whatever, and I don't know if it's Poliak or Po- Poliack or whatever. [01:42:36.864 – 01:42:46.044] But I've, I've heard or read that that reference, that, that doctor is Dr P. Poliak or Poliack. [01:42:46.044 – 01:42:50.824] It sounds very much like that Dr L. Holman from what I've heard this morning. [01:42:50.824 – 01:42:52.304] Was, is that right? [01:42:52.304 – 01:42:57.654] Um, I, I, I know you're talking about a reference that shows up in the big book about a, about a, a guy named… [01:42:57.654 – 01:43:00.224] But, but that I believe specifically says local. [01:43:00.224 – 01:43:01.204] Local.

[01:43:01.204 – 01:43:02.364] Which would have been, would have been… [01:43:02.364 – 01:43:03.984] Now I'd like to be wrong about that. [01:43:03.984 – 01:43:06.244] Dan, I would have to go back and look at that. [01:43:06.244 – 01:43:09.484] Certainly there's, later in my book I know I deal with that. [01:43:09.484 – 01:43:10.983] Like, like who is this guy? [01:43:10.983 – 01:43:14.634] And there's about three ways of spelling his name, and all of those other things. [01:43:14.634 – 01:43:16.984] But off the top of my head I'm afraid I don't.

[01:43:16.984 – 01:43:24.604] Somebody pointed out to me that, that, that when, when, when Bill's writing to Dr B. and telling the story about what… [01:43:24.604 – 01:43:34.644] God, I, I, I, I think it was, it was Alan pointed out to me that when he was writing to Dr B. saying, saying what Dr H. said, it sounded almost exactly like what he [01:43:34.644 – 01:43:39.064] said Dr Y. said to, to, uh, to Roland H.. [01:43:39.064 – 01:43:45.984] You know, the exact same, "I am, I am not a religious" this, or, "I'm not a religious man." And, and really there was a, I had never noticed that parallel before. [01:43:45.984 – 01:43:47.804] I thought it was a really nice call by Alan. [01:43:47.804 – 01:43:52.144] But, uh, you know, it just, I, I, I, I don't think… [01:43:52.144 – 01:43:57.944] I, the, the Poliak thing, uh, is one of those controversies I don't have off the top of my head, I'm afraid.

[01:43:57.944 – 01:43:58.864] Sorry. [01:43:58.864 – 01:44:00.404] Thank you Bill. [01:44:00.404 – 01:44:02.423] And- The question is, uh- Sorry J.. [01:44:02.423 – 01:44:02.784] Sorry J., go ahead. [01:44:02.784 – 01:44:10.104] What, uh, what chapter is the letter that you mentioned about reasons for separation from the Oxford Group? [01:44:10.104 – 01:44:12.884] Do you now know what chapter that letter is in? [01:44:12.884 – 01:44:15.284] I, I, I do not know off the top of my head.

[01:44:15.284 – 01:44:17.244] But, uh- I would find it. [01:44:17.244 – 01:44:20.644] I'd find it through the- It's, it's- I search, I search in the Kindle and I get it Bill … [01:44:20.644 – 01:44:24.044] it's a letter, letter to a guy named Baxter I think. [01:44:24.044 – 01:44:26.564] So B. might be in the index for all I know. [01:44:26.564 – 01:44:29.984] Let me just take a real quick look here and see if we got a Baxter in the index. [01:44:29.984 – 01:44:34.144] I could be wrong about Baxter too. [01:44:34.144 – 01:44:40.944] Yep, no Baxter in the index, so I don't know who made this stupid index up, but it's not accurate enough for my purposes anymore.

[01:44:40.944 – 01:44:43.764] So it's- While, while you're looking we'll go to Nathan P.. [01:44:43.764 – 01:44:46.284] Thanks. [01:44:46.284 – 01:44:48.344] Just one little thing. [01:44:48.344 – 01:44:54.824] I misunderstand plenty in this world, and I, uh, I misunderstand more as I get more sober. [01:44:54.824 – 01:45:00.624] But as I remember, Fayette pretty much raised Bill in a lot of ways. [01:45:00.624 – 01:45:11.124] And they lived at the W. house across the street from a church in a small town where perhaps they were members of that very church. [01:45:11.124 – 01:45:19.984] The problem being that Bill makes it clear that Fayette was rather skeptical of the self-righteous people at the church.

[01:45:19.984 – 01:45:30.164] And I had imagined during my years of being with Bill W. that he had inherited his grandfather's skepticism about [01:45:30.164 – 01:45:32.564] religion, at least caution. [01:45:32.564 – 01:45:42.664] And these subsequent interests in religion that Bill showed must have been developed either before or [01:45:42.664 – 01:45:46.564] during or after his becoming sober. [01:45:46.564 – 01:45:50.064] It's all plausible, but I don't know what the facts are. [01:45:50.064 – 01:45:54.564] But Bill, you know what all the facts are, so we rely on you. [01:45:54.564 – 01:45:55.824] Thank you very much.

[01:45:55.824 – 01:45:59.304] Nathan- Would you like to answer? [01:45:59.304 – 01:45:59.734] As, as, as, as… [01:45:59.734 – 01:46:00.144] No, no. [01:46:00.144 – 01:46:02.944] Nathan, Nathan and I correspond with regularity. [01:46:02.944 – 01:46:04.204] We're on the same page here. [01:46:04.204 – 01:46:11.904] Nathan, I'm doing this presentation on Saturday, and one of the things I talk about is how much religion there is in the original version of There is a Solution. [01:46:11.904 – 01:46:16.444] There isn't a single mention of the word spiritual in the original typing of that thing.

[01:46:16.444 – 01:46:20.443] Which I fi- I kind of found a little shocking, tell you the truth, when I really dug into that. [01:46:20.443 – 01:46:28.524] And it was also interesting that in one of these letters, the letter to Dr, Dr C., he's not so- he's not, he's not proposing a religious solution. [01:46:28.524 – 01:46:30.304] He's saying a spiritual solution. [01:46:30.304 – 01:46:37.464] But, but if that was in mid-July, that's like six weeks after he wrote this chapter that had no, didn't use the word spiritual at all. [01:46:37.464 – 01:46:38.824] So there's some sort of… [01:46:38.824 – 01:46:44.064] Yeah, I mean it, it, it's a moving target all the time, and it's not a black and white thing. [01:46:44.064 – 01:46:48.604] I mean, we just always, always, always have to, have to go with nuance and gray.

[01:46:48.604 – 01:46:50.764] You know, light grays to dark grays. [01:46:50.764 – 01:46:56.024] And, uh, and W. was a moving target just as like I'm a moving target, and you're a moving target. [01:46:56.024 – 01:46:56.644] So thank you. [01:46:56.644 – 01:46:58.304] Thanks B.. [01:46:58.304 – 01:47:01.424] Just one- I got a, a question here about, uh, Fitzmayow. [01:47:01.424 – 01:47:11.484] That thing about Frank leaving his, uh, uh, Fitzmayow leaving his wife at home sick, uh, i- with his rage and temper just made me wonder if [01:47:11.484 – 01:47:13.804] there was a domestic problem going on

[01:47:14.760 – 01:47:16.820] Did he have domestic problems, Fitz M.? [01:47:16.820 – 01:47:18.120] Well, yeah. [01:47:18.120 – 01:47:21.640] I thought we were clear in this chapter that he had a ton of domestic problems. [01:47:21.640 – 01:47:29.020] I mean, and, and even to the point where the W. knew about it so much that, that, that, you know, Lois is telling Bill, "Why don't you bring Fitz up here? [01:47:29.020 – 01:47:32.980] 'Cause he's so much better when he gets away from his wife and kids." You know? [01:47:32.980 – 01:47:33.800] It just, it's… [01:47:33.800 – 01:47:34.000] Yeah.

[01:47:34.000 – 01:47:44.120] Fitz, Fitz clearly had serious domestic problems, ones that he owned to, but that also show up in, in secondary sources from the same time period that, that, that confirm [01:47:44.120 – 01:47:49.060] that, that he just, he just, he just wasn't doing too well at home with Elizabeth and the kids. [01:47:49.060 – 01:47:51.540] And, um, yeah. [01:47:51.540 – 01:47:53.260] Thanks, Bill. [01:47:53.260 – 01:47:55.540] Let's go to Dennis F. in Naples, Florida. [01:47:55.540 – 01:48:05.460] Den- Hello T. you go. [01:48:05.460 – 01:48:05.760] Yeah.

[01:48:05.760 – 01:48:12.180] David, I'd like to thank you for all your hard work on this group, and Bill, I got two simple questions for you. [01:48:12.180 – 01:48:17.290] Number one, how much money do you think they raised to print the Big Book? [01:48:17.290 – 01:48:24.450] And number two, once you finished your research, how long did it take you to type the Big Book, this book of yours? [01:48:24.450 – 01:48:32.280] Well, first of all, the, the money issues are gonna be dealt with when we get to those chapters. [01:48:32.280 – 01:48:33.710] You know, they, they, they, they really… [01:48:33.710 – 01:48:38.620] Charlie T. finally gave Bill W. $300 a month for five months. [01:48:38.620 – 01:48:46.380] That was 200 bucks for him and 100 bucks for Ruth H., so the, the final five months so that he could type this thing up and get it ready to go.

[01:48:46.380 – 01:48:49.200] Then where the money came from, they were, they were just… [01:48:49.200 – 01:48:55.840] I mean, they, the, the, the publisher, I mean, the printer didn't give them the books because they hadn't paid the bills, you know? [01:48:55.840 – 01:48:59.360] They would, they would, they would give the publisher some money, and he'd give them some more copies. [01:48:59.360 – 01:49:01.260] And then they'd sell them, and they'd give him some more money. [01:49:01.260 – 01:49:01.930] It was- Mm … [01:49:01.930 – 01:49:02.980] it was a real challenge. [01:49:02.980 – 01:49:13.080] I started researching, uh, in 2007, and I started, I started typing words into chapters in

[01:49:13.080 – 01:49:17.780] 2010, and seven years later to the day, I finished the first rough draft. [01:49:17.780 – 01:49:20.960] It took me seven years of, uh, of typing to do that. [01:49:20.960 – 01:49:24.179] That's a lot of work, and thank you for doing it all. [01:49:24.179 – 01:49:24.399] Yeah. [01:49:24.399 – 01:49:24.860] Thank you. [01:49:24.860 – 01:49:26.260] And thank- Yeah. [01:49:26.260 – 01:49:26.880] Thank you, Bill.

[01:49:26.880 – 01:49:27.600] Thank you, Dennis. [01:49:27.600 – 01:49:30.120] And Larry You guys have a good day. [01:49:30.120 – 01:49:33.280] Good afternoon, ev- everyone. [01:49:33.280 – 01:49:36.420] I, I am so, uh, I'm so spiritually fed. [01:49:36.420 – 01:49:39.120] I, I, I would like to say that William G. [01:49:39.120 – 01:49:41.220] W., the G stand for Griffin. [01:49:41.220 – 01:49:51.230] He was raised at, with his grandfather, uh, Grandpa G., and Grandpa G., correct me if I'm wrong or in error, Grandpa G., uh, uh, had, had, had, uh,

[01:49:51.230 – 01:49:55.740] imparted to him that religious folks caused a whole lot of problems in the world. [01:49:55.740 – 01:50:05.880] That's why when Ebby, Ebby T. in that November 1934 came to bring him the message a- and 12 step him, Bill had a problem with that, [01:50:05.880 – 01:50:09.400] uh, with that religious spiritual piece or whatever, that God piece. [01:50:09.400 – 01:50:18.279] And I think between the conversation or whatever, uh, uh, it was gi- I'm given to understand that why don't you choose a God of your own understanding, uh, step three. [01:50:18.279 – 01:50:28.340] And, and as a result of that, that, that, as a result of that, Bill usually had a problem with religion as opposed to based upon, [01:50:28.340 – 01:50:31.660] you know, what he g- what he had got garnered from his grandfather. [01:50:31.660 – 01:50:32.840] Am I correct in that?

[01:50:32.840 – 01:50:37.920] Well, I, I think it's true, Larry, that, that he certainly got that in his upbringing. [01:50:37.920 – 01:50:40.930] I mean, we all pick up stuff from our upbringing that in… [01:50:40.930 – 01:50:44.480] We get, we get, you get indelibly marked somehow, you know? [01:50:44.480 – 01:50:49.240] But he also had problems clearly, you know, uh, the whole Winchester C. thing, you know? [01:50:49.240 – 01:50:52.700] And, and what was, what was, you know, the disaster of the First W. War. [01:50:52.700 – 01:50:56.820] If you don't know what a disaster the First W. War was, you need to do some reading on that thing. [01:50:56.820 – 01:50:59.660] It was just unbelievable destructive.

[01:50:59.660 – 01:51:04.740] And, uh, you know, so W., yeah, W., W. had problems with organized religion. [01:51:04.740 – 01:51:05.960] There was no doubt about it. [01:51:05.960 – 01:51:07.000] No doubt about it. [01:51:07.000 – 01:51:09.040] Thank you, Bill. [01:51:09.040 – 01:51:15.080] And, uh, probably one more question or so, and, uh, Bill's gonna have to go. [01:51:15.080 – 01:51:16.780] But, uh, anyone else have a question? [01:51:16.780 – 01:51:21.880] Anyone else?

[01:51:21.880 – 01:51:26.020] Can I just mention, I found on page 12, Bill, about the Oxford Group if people wanna go back to that. [01:51:26.020 – 01:51:28.960] I know it's not the letter, but it is on page 12 about the separation. [01:51:28.960 – 01:51:32.760] I'll just put it on the screen, and maybe you can mention something to that. [01:51:32.760 – 01:51:34.540] D- does Bill, it's on the screen. [01:51:34.540 – 01:51:36.730] Is that- Hang on … [01:51:36.730 – 01:51:38.560] Bill's part about the separation there on that point? [01:51:38.560 – 01:51:41.600] Well, certainly, yeah.

[01:51:41.600 – 01:51:42.820] I mean, AA was… [01:51:42.820 – 01:51:45.240] I, I love saying that AA was the, that, that… [01:51:45.240 – 01:51:45.530] I'm sorry. [01:51:45.530 – 01:51:50.760] The Oxford Group was the soil out of which, uh, you know, Alcoholics Anonymous grew. [01:51:50.760 – 01:51:52.300] I mean, there's no doubt about that. [01:51:52.300 – 01:52:02.380] But there's, there, there's, again, there's this letter he wrote in, and we're, we're gonna get to it if you hang in here, where he lists like eight reasons why they left the Oxford [01:52:02.380 – 01:52:02.960] Group.

[01:52:02.960 – 01:52:06.180] And, and, uh, and, uh- Okay. [01:52:06.180 – 01:52:06.960] Reasons. [01:52:06.960 – 01:52:08.380] Yeah. [01:52:08.380 – 01:52:09.970] I, I, I guess we could spend more time on it. [01:52:09.970 – 01:52:13.420] I did type in separation, but that's what came up, but- Right. [01:52:13.420 – 01:52:14.710] Yeah. [01:52:14.710 – 01:52:15.200] All right.

[01:52:15.200 – 01:52:16.860] Anyone else have a question? [01:52:16.860 – 01:52:20.010] Um, we have a bit here about this- Otherwise, we're gonna turn it- … [01:52:20.010 – 01:52:21.170] spoken to on Saturday. [01:52:21.170 – 01:52:22.170] Can we just mention that again? [01:52:22.170 – 01:52:22.860] Because I'm sure… [01:52:22.860 – 01:52:24.389] Look, I, I'm looking forward to this as well. [01:52:24.389 – 01:52:26.140] This is fanta- This looks exciting.

[01:52:26.140 – 01:52:30.220] On, unless Alice here, he wants to speak to you, but I'll just quickly do it. [01:52:30.220 – 01:52:35.570] Saturday, February 26th, 2022, 9:30 AM Eastern S. Time and 2:30- [01:52:35.706 – 01:52:36.616] in the UK. [01:52:36.616 – 01:52:39.116] Bill S. is gonna be talking, as you just said. [01:52:39.116 – 01:52:42.556] Bill, you can talk to this again, please, on chapters one and two of the Big Book. [01:52:42.556 – 01:52:44.036] Bill, do you wanna talk to that again, please? [01:52:44.036 – 01:52:50.036] Well, yeah, I, I, I'm doing, I just, I'm just talking about There is a Solution in Bill's Story.

[01:52:50.036 – 01:52:51.436] The two chapters that were written. [01:52:51.436 – 01:52:52.126] And, and kinda… [01:52:52.126 – 01:53:02.176] I mean, W. wrote three different things for Bill's Story and, and we got all kinds of different documents where there are, there are subtle changes in, in what was, that w- they kept changing what was in There is [01:53:02.176 – 01:53:03.296] a Solution. [01:53:03.296 – 01:53:07.016] So I, I try and present some of, some of those to give people a… [01:53:07.016 – 01:53:12.636] You know, there are people who think that this thing came, came out of Bill W.'s pen and, and we never changed a word. [01:53:12.636 – 01:53:14.796] You know, we never changed a word of this.

[01:53:14.796 – 01:53:16.716] It's, it's the equivalent of holy writ. [01:53:16.716 – 01:53:19.256] God forbid you should try and change a word in the Big Book. [01:53:19.256 – 01:53:28.776] And, uh, I think it's really important to, to, to know the backstory on what was going on with that stuff and, and how those changes were made and what those changes were that were made. [01:53:28.776 – 01:53:38.776] Um, and I also, um, one, once you get into Bill's Story, there's, there's these three versions, but in this, in the two versions of Bill's Story, there's 11 [01:53:38.776 – 01:53:48.816] of the 12 steps explicitly, and I'm gonna show you those, those 11 of the 12 steps that show up in Bill's Story, which is six months before he wrote the 12 steps. [01:53:48.816 – 01:53:49.536] Mm-hmm. [01:53:49.536 – 01:53:59.556] And, uh, the day I was in, the day I was sitting in, in GSO archive reading Bill's Story and knowing full well that if you look at my

[01:53:59.556 – 01:54:02.836] copy of the Big Book, I've got the steps numbered in Bill's Story. [01:54:02.836 – 01:54:11.176] And all of a sudden I'm reading this thing from June, not December, and I'm thinking, "Oh my God, here, here's the 12 steps right here." Well, it turns out there's only 11 of them there. [01:54:11.176 – 01:54:11.515] Mm-hmm. [01:54:11.515 – 01:54:17.066] But anyhow, it's, uh, it, it's, uh, it's those kind of things. [01:54:17.066 – 01:54:26.056] And, and quite frankly, I think that the essence of Alcoholics Anonymous' foundational beliefs and principles are contained in those two, those two chapters. [01:54:26.056 – 01:54:29.076] Everything else is just commentary on those two chapters. [01:54:29.076 – 01:54:29.266] Right.

[01:54:29.266 – 01:54:30.196] Exposition. [01:54:30.196 – 01:54:32.256] Kinda blowing them out a little bit. [01:54:32.256 – 01:54:33.836] Thank you, Bill. [01:54:33.836 – 01:54:37.866] And if your head has not exploded by that time, at 11:00 AM that following same morning, Drew H. [01:54:37.866 – 01:54:40.776] is gonna do a talk on the Big Book goes to print. [01:54:40.776 – 01:54:43.256] And that's followed after lunch by Tom R. [01:54:43.256 – 01:54:45.416] doing a m- a talk on a vision for us.

[01:54:45.416 – 01:54:47.456] Uh, bring your Big Book he suggests. [01:54:47.456 – 01:54:54.356] And finally they're gonna close that with our basic text then and there with S. J., and that looks exciting. [01:54:54.356 – 01:55:02.216] So those who are listening to this, it's 921-805-34219 on Zoom, and the password is capital AA history. [01:55:02.216 – 01:55:06.896] Bill, we better let you go and we w- we, you know, we value your time immensely. [01:55:06.896 – 01:55:08.176] I see Eddie has got a question. [01:55:08.176 – 01:55:08.826] Jim, do you wanna quick- Yeah. [01:55:08.826 – 01:55:09.276] No, no.

[01:55:09.276 – 01:55:09.686] Da- Yeah … [01:55:09.686 – 01:55:09.966] David. [01:55:09.966 – 01:55:17.516] B- Bill, I just wanted to mention that it's, uh, on page 135, 36 are the eight points in the short letter. [01:55:17.516 – 01:55:26.436] Eddie, I, I saw you flashing through the book there and I was gonna say, "If we just hold on a little bit, Eddie'll come up with the answer," and there you are, bud. [01:55:26.436 – 01:55:26.776] Eddie. [01:55:26.776 – 01:55:27.816] So thank you very much. [01:55:27.816 – 01:55:28.195] That's great.

[01:55:28.195 – 01:55:37.506] Yeah, that, that's, that's where that, that, that whole thing about the letter is, and he says in there someplace … [01:55:37.506 – 01:55:42.056] I don't have it all in front of me, but he- Oh, I'm just gonna try and get it for you, but um- Talks about what he believes in God. [01:55:42.056 – 01:55:42.276] Yeah. [01:55:42.276 – 01:55:42.876] Good stuff. [01:55:42.876 – 01:55:45.725] He- I'm embarrassed 'cause I have it earmarked. [01:55:45.725 – 01:55:46.776] Oh, no. [01:55:46.776 – 01:55:49.456] There's so much information though, Jackie, it's wonderful.

[01:55:49.456 – 01:55:51.276] It's so hard to remember. [01:55:51.276 – 01:55:52.616] It's wonderful. [01:55:52.616 – 01:55:53.756] All right. [01:55:53.756 – 01:55:55.376] Thank you all for the Q&A. [01:55:55.376 – 01:55:56.876] I'm gonna turn the- What a banquet … [01:55:56.876 – 01:55:57.876] back over to David. [01:55:57.876 – 01:55:59.556] Oh, awesome.

[01:55:59.556 – 01:56:02.916] Jackie, we're gonna go straight back over to San Francisco. [01:56:02.916 – 01:56:05.126] Um, but next week, I just wanna tell you who's coming up next week. [01:56:05.126 – 01:56:07.596] I think I'd said it already, but let's just do it 'cause Riley K. [01:56:07.596 – 01:56:10.236] has been doing our footnotes for us this last couple. [01:56:10.236 – 01:56:15.076] And Riley's gonna read, um, the next chapter for us next week, and I'm gonna find it for you here. [01:56:15.076 – 01:56:15.776] There you go. [01:56:15.776 – 01:56:16.396] Where are you, Riley?

[01:56:16.396 – 01:56:18.316] So it's next week, anyway, we're gonna be doing… [01:56:18.316 – 01:56:18.916] There you go. [01:56:18.916 – 01:56:20.016] Riley K. [01:56:20.016 – 01:56:25.516] is gonna be doing, uh, chapter 12, The Alcoholic Foundation, and we're building on a course all the time. [01:56:25.516 – 01:56:28.766] Oc- we're in August 1938, and that's Riley K. [01:56:28.766 – 01:56:29.516] out of Oregon. [01:56:29.516 – 01:56:33.576] And she's gonna be accompanied by Bill L. out of Portland, Oregon.

[01:56:33.576 – 01:56:36.016] So we have the Oregonians next week. [01:56:36.016 – 01:56:38.476] And, uh, we'll do up a flyer for that. [01:56:38.476 – 01:56:41.556] Uh, Jackie, we're going back to you in San Francisco. [01:56:41.556 – 01:56:45.356] Will you close with a, a few comments or maybe a prayer of your choice or something? [01:56:45.356 – 01:56:45.776] Thank you. [01:56:45.776 – 01:56:55.536] Um, I'd like to take a moment of silence for, um, the alcoholics, um, and the people, um, of the Ukraine right now. [01:56:55.536 – 01:57:01.896] Um, you know, they're members like us and they're going through a hard time right now in that whole section of the world.

[01:57:01.896 – 01:57:08.856] And so my thoughts were with them, as well as our, um, alcoholic AA members in Russia as well. [01:57:08.856 – 01:57:19.096] So a moment of silence, uh, for those who are affected by what's happening in the world today, alcoholics and non-alcoholics. [01:57:19.096 – 01:57:28.176] And I'd like to end with the responsibility statement, AA's responsibility statement. [01:57:28.176 – 01:57:32.376] Who is responsible? [01:57:32.376 – 01:57:34.726] I am responsible. [01:57:34.726 – 01:57:34.727] I am responsible. [01:57:34.727 – 01:57:34.956] I am responsible.

[01:57:34.956 – 01:57:35.636] I am responsible. [01:57:35.636 – 01:57:38.266] Anyone anywhere who reaches out for help. [01:57:38.266 – 01:57:38.566] Anyone anywhere who reaches out for help. [01:57:38.566 – 01:57:40.306] I want the hand of AA to be there. [01:57:40.306 – 01:57:40.396] I want the hand of AA to be there. [01:57:40.396 – 01:57:41.436] Of AA always to be there. [01:57:41.436 – 01:57:44.896] And for that, I am responsible.

[01:57:44.896 – 01:57:45.346] And for that, I am responsible. [01:57:45.346 – 01:57:47.426] Thank you, everyone very much. [01:57:47.426 – 01:57:48.316] Thanks again, Jackie. [01:57:48.316 – 01:57:48.646] Thank you. [01:57:48.646 – 01:57:49.256] Thanks, David. [01:57:49.256 – 01:57:49.916] Thank you. [01:57:49.916 – 01:57:50.356] Thank you.

[01:57:50.356 – 01:57:51.275] Thanks, Bill. [01:57:51.275 – 01:57:51.956] Thank you, everyone. [01:57:51.956 – 01:57:53.016] Thank you all very much. [01:57:53.016 – 01:57:54.216] Have a nice day. [01:57:54.216 – 01:57:55.116] Peace and blessings. [01:57:55.116 – 01:57:57.256] Thank you all so very much