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Source: 1985 Montreal International Convention – Multi Speakers – HOW AA REACHES THE HANDICAPPED How AA Reaches the Handicapped – RS 06309.mp3 File: 1985-montreal-international-convention-multi-speakers-how-aa-reaches-the-handicapped-how-aa-reaches-the-handicapped-rs-06309.mp3 Duration: 01:24:10
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Welcome to the 1.30 meeting. It's a very interesting meeting this afternoon. I hope that we get a lot more people come in here, and I expect some more really maybe when they get over their lunch, if they're able to get a lunch. But I have a few messages before we start. I would like to ask for a moment of silence in gratitude for the air recovery for the past 50 years. And will you all join me in serenity prayer? God grant me serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
There may be somebody here today who are not familiar with our tradition of personal anonymity at the public level. Our public relation policy is based on attraction rather than promotion. We need to always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, TV, and films. Thus we respectfully ask that no AA speaker or indeed any AA member be identified by full name or photograph in published or broadcast reports of our meeting. The assurance of anonymity is essential to our efforts to help other problem drinkers who may wish to share our recovery program with us. And our tradition of anonymity reminds us that AA principles come before personalities.
There will be tapes of this meeting available after the meeting. And they are available in the tape sales booth and the convention center which is down in the main concourse. Each speaker at our meeting has a predetermined length of time allocated to him or her. So I guess all of you speakers know how much time that you will have to speak because this is being taped automatically and it starts at 1.30. At 2 o'clock it will stop. So we do want to have the meeting over by 2, by 3 o'clock rather.
I have one other announcement and it's about the bylaws of the city of Montreal. It has to do with fire and I hope we don't have to face this problem. But if there is any fire, people will just go out and you'll see a sign out on both sides of the corridor there to take you to the different stairways where you go downstairs. We do not anticipate anything like that but this is law and we have to do this.
And we have, as I said, we have a very interesting panel and I'm privileged indeed to get this opportunity to lead this panel this afternoon. And I think we have a very able member here who is going to speak with us. His name is Herb. He's from New Jersey and he will discuss reaching the mentally handicapped. Herb? Thank you Jim. I don't think you introduced yourself but you are Jim S and you are an alcoholic.
Oh I'm sorry. My name is Jim S and I am an alcoholic and I'm from New York City. Thank you. Who's nervous? Who's nervous? My name is Herb and I am an alcoholic. And today we're talking about the handicapped, the alcoholic who has a handicap and I'm specifically talking about psychiatrically handicapped. We, I will tell you something about how I became interested in this and something about my experience in carrying the message to the psychiatrically handicapped.
How I became interested, let me first of all express, define what I'm talking about when I say psychiatrically impaired or handicapped. Another definition we have in New Jersey is what we call the mentally ill chemical abuser, most of which is alcohol. These are people who have severe long-standing psychiatric problems, most of whom needing medication. And many of these people have had numerous psychiatric hospitalizations and for one reason or another have another disease called alcoholism.
I became interested in this first of all by being treated as a psychiatric patient for my alcoholism. I'm sure other people can identify with me.
[00:05:00]
In fact, at one time I used to say, you know, I'd rather be mentally ill than be an alcoholic because being an alcoholic meant I had to give up drinking, something which I didn't want to do at all. So, in fact, I saw numerous psychiatrists and was hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital for four and a half months for the treatment of my sociopathy at the time. That's how they diagnosed me. So that was my first real exposure to psychiatry and alcoholism.
Not a very good exposure, let me tell you. A little aside is the psychiatrist who was treating me in that hospital after I was in the program for a couple of years, I met him. He was just coming in. He didn't want to talk about my alcoholism because he didn't want to talk about his alcoholism at the time. He was drinking a quart of booze himself a day. After I was in the AA for a while, specifically five years, and kind of got my head back together and my family back together, I decided to return to medical school.
I had been given a leave of absence from medical school a while ago because of my drinking, although they, at that time, of course, diagnosed it as psychiatric problems. And I did go back to medical school with the idea of getting into the field of alcoholism as a physician who was knowledgeable on alcoholism. And I went further than that, and after I finished medical school, I did a psychiatric residency.
So I am now a full-fledged board certified Clark County psychiatrist. And so when I put them down at meetings, it's okay. I made some notes this morning, and I can't read them. Anyway, as I became a psychiatrist, I came in contact with a lot of patients. I don't know how many of you are aware of what they call the deinstitutionalization movement, but many of the chronic psychiatric hospitals that used to keep a lot of these patients for years have been phased out, so that a lot of these people now are out living in boarding houses and out living in the community, receiving their care out in the community, but also being exposed more and more to substance abuse.
We used to carry AA meetings into these people, into the institutions, because that's where they were. They're not there anymore, so we have to kind of change our location of where we take these meetings. There are still people who have psychiatric problems and who are chemical abusers. I kept running into these people, and I'd just like to explain my concept of how I treat these people. First of all, it was brought up this morning in the meeting that you shouldn't be treating anybody until they're free of alcohol for a certain period of time.
That's okay for most people, but there's a minority, and the minority I'm talking to is probably the same percentage of population as the general population, that have serious psychiatric problems. If they don't get treated at the same time as their alcoholism is being treated, then it's going to interfere with their sobriety. That's my own criteria for treating somebody psychiatrically, an alcoholic who is recovering for treating them psychiatrically right off the bat.
It's going to interfere with their sobriety. That's a judgment call. I hope I have enough experience and knowledge to make those judgments. I think I do. But the concept I want to get across is I'm treating two different illnesses, and you have to treat them both separately. You have to treat alcoholism by the usual AA methods and anything else that you need, but mainly AA, and you have to treat the psychiatric condition with the appropriate treatment.
If you don't treat them both separately, then if you only treat the alcoholism, the psychiatric condition is going to deteriorate and cause the person to drink. If you don't treat the psychiatric condition, then if you don't treat the alcoholism, even if you do treat the psychiatric condition, the psychiatric condition is going to deteriorate. So even though there are two separate illnesses and you have to treat them both separately,
[00:10:01]
if you don't treat them both separately and appropriately, they're going to interact with each other so that both illnesses become worse. I was having trouble sending some of these psychiatric patients to AA meetings. I was having trouble sending some of these psychiatric patients to AA meetings. Because at AA meetings they'd run into people who would say, get off your medication. And they would be very ambivalent in their feelings.
They want to get sober. And I'm telling them to go to AA meetings where the people in AA are saying, get off your medication. They felt very uncomfortable. So I finally had to say to them, don't tell anybody you're on medication. And that's not really being honest. I mean, you don't go in there bragging you're on medication, but if somebody comes up and you need to talk about it or at least say it, the honesty part of the program says you should.
That you do have another impairment that you need help for. These people did not feel comfortable doing that at AA meetings, at regular AA meetings. So what I did is I got together with another fellow who I was working with, a colleague of mine, and we decided that we would form kind of an introduction AA meeting. And we called that meeting a double-triple AA meeting. People who have both alcohol problems and psychiatric problems who need treatment at the same time.
And we did this. And we did it kind of as an introduction to AA. I also am a member of another specialized group called International Doctors of AA, and we call these groups vestibule groups. They're not really the mainstream of AA. We recognize that, and we recognize that you're not going to stay sober unless you get into the mainstream of AA. But you need to feel comfortable to go to an AA meeting so you can get into the mainstream.
In these double-triple meetings that we call, the people feel comfortable. They feel comfortable talking about both their sobriety and their medication. They feel comfortable enough to be able to concentrate on the principles of AA, on the principles of recovery through AA. Get a good knowledge of those principles. And then, hopefully, most of them, although some don't, most of them do feel comfortable enough to go to other AA meetings.
And we have found this to be very successful. I would like to have some other people share with you. By the way, there is a pamphlet out. I'm aware of this pamphlet called The AA Member, Medication, and Other Drugs. It's conference-approved, AA conference-approved literature. And I recommend everybody read that, please. It gives some guidelines on what to do. We can't tell you what to do. No one, I don't think, can lay down rules.
Just some general guidelines on how to deal with people who are on medication. And I would like to have one of the people whose story is in this pamphlet share with you her experience. Fran? Hi, my name is Fran, and I'm an alcoholic. Hi. Oh, you have to come up here so they can sign the pamphlet. Oh, okay, I'm sorry. Hi, I'm Fran, and I'm an alcoholic. Hi, Fran. Hi, guys. I came into AA with two pills.
I was being treated at the time for depression. And I came in with an antidepressant. And in the 60s, they were giving Valium for that same thing. And at our very first meeting, the first question I was asked was, are you taking any pills? And it went on and on and on like that. And there was a lot of talk. And I kept taking the medication. And then finally, after three years of listening to, you know, you don't need a psychiatrist, you have us.
Are you going to be fine? I had to take those pills, and I don't need them anymore. And on and on and on. I stopped taking them. And when I stopped, I went on. When I stopped, I went on an eight-month medication-free trip of psychiatric symptoms of delusions and,
[00:15:06]
not delusions, but obsessions and paranoia and fear and hallucinations and audio hallucinations. They went on for eight months and I didn't get any medication because I stopped the medication. That's why it happened. And after eight months, I was given a diagnosis and I was given another appropriate medication. It was a major tranquilizer. It was Haldol. And I came back into the AA meeting and, I don't know, I had a hard time because I always, it was my fault they always talked about it.
And I didn't know anybody else taking medication and then I got the same thing all over again. You don't need this, you don't need that. And then off to Haldol and the Thalazine and there was about maybe nine or ten medications I came off of. And some of them, the one I came off of, I'm alive today only because of a psychiatrist. And finally around this time, I met a counselor that was taking medication and a few people together that were taking medication and they really helped me see that they did have diagnoses.
And, I don't know, it was really funny. I just always chose to believe the AA people rather than the psychiatrist, the fine psychiatrist. I always believed AA. And only meeting these other people, I started to kind of listen and started taking the medication. And then time went on and two years ago, this was in 1975, two years ago I met Dr. McBride and I wanted to come off the antidepressant and we started to come off of it and ten days later I was in the psych ward and I had no idea what was happening.
And I got a diagnosis at that point of manic depressive and I had to take lithium. And I decided to try it. They told me about the double trouble meeting in New Brunswick and I went to that. And it was really one of the greatest discoveries of my life because I met there people that were just like myself, that shared their experience, strength, and health with their diagnosis, with their medication.
It was really rough for me to accept manic depressive and the man I met there was a manic depressive. I couldn't, I just didn't like it in the beginning. It's fine now but I really wasn't thrilled with it. And to meet these other people and to talk about medication and problems that you have in AA and I finally learned to stop talking to other people about the medication. And now we have a group where I live in Red Bank and I go there Friday nights.
And it's just become a part of my life. It's one of the most important meetings still. And even with the sponsoring, I usually only sponsor medication people because that's what I, I don't know, I just prefer that. And even today, you know, to talk to somebody that's been there and it's just really, I feel a great need in my life. And I like what Dr. McBride said about fixing the two illnesses. Like if I don't fix my alcoholism, I can't fix my manic depression and I can't fix my manic depression without fixing my alcoholism.
And so I go to regular AA meetings for my alcoholism only, finally, after 15 years. And I go to Double Trouble for my manic depression. And I've met many, many other people with the same diagnosis and I've gotten to, I've accepted both illnesses now. And if they're really no big deal, either one of them, because I treat them both the same and there's so many other illnesses out there that I don't know.
For the alcoholism, I just go to meetings and don't drink. And for the manic depressive illness, I just take the lithium and I also go to meetings. In the city also and in the Double Trouble, which is, like I said, a great part of my life. And the higher power. Use all these three things to stay sober day to time. Thank you. How many people you have gone to that Red Bank meeting now? About 50 people.
There is a need. Let me just reemphasize that these meetings, the purpose of these meetings, one of the main purposes is to try to mainstream people into regular AA because that's where your sobriety is. And I'd like Georgia if she would share some of her experience on that. Thank you. Hi, I'm Georgia and I'm a recovering alcoholic and I'm grateful. Never thought I'd say that. Hi. Hi. It's great to be here.
And both Fran and I feel really honored that Dr. H or whatever, Dr. Herb has asked us to be part of this. My experience with Double Trouble and AA, I came really into AA first. Without going into too much background, I suffered from clinical depression probably quite a bit before my alcoholism.
[00:20:01]
And it was diagnosed, but I had never been put on medication. Approximately five years ago, I began eventually, as a lot of us do, I guess, to treat the old depression, which was real, with alcohol. And alcoholism is pretty rampant in my father's side of the family. He was a recovering person before he died. And eventually I had the disease of alcoholism as well. Approximately five years ago, I was introduced to AA through a rehab.
And I took to it. Oh, my God, this is what's been wrong with me all my life. And it was a lot of what was wrong with me. I was sober about four months in the program. And I had a sponsor, and all the things that you hear suggested for newcomers, I really was trying to do. I had a sponsor, the 90 meetings in 90 days. I don't know if that's in New Jersey. That's what we hear a lot, 90 meetings in 90 days.
And about four and a half months sober, I began to slowly slip into what I now know is a clinical depression. And the woman that was my sponsor, in all good faith, did not know it. She knew my history. She knew my life story, more or less. But she suggested to me that I wasn't turning things over to God and different things like that. And she was well-meaning. I had a serious suicide attempt at that point.
And I was then sober for 23 months. I was in mental institutions for approximately nine months of that. I did recover, and because I made sort of a spontaneous recovery eventually after some shock treatments, it was decided I should not be on medication. What happened to me is I drank again after 23 months. And the disease of my alcoholism progressed unbelievably. If there is any such thing as a high bottom, I came in as a high bottom and came back in as a low bottom.
What saved my life is about three things. One is my sponsor. She happened to go. I talk about there are no coincidences in AA. People in AA had watched me during this period. I thank God for them. They all prayed. That's all they knew how to do with me because nothing else seemed to work. The woman who is my sponsor today went to a task force meeting on women and alcoholism, and she heard a speaker who mentioned that there's a very small percentage of alcoholics that must be on some sort of medication.
Now, when we talk about medication, most of the people in our double trouble meetings, when Fran used the term major tranquilizer, I think sometimes that's a little misleading to people. These are psychotropic medications. They are nonaddictive if used properly. Even if you don't use them properly, they are not mood-altering drugs. Also, your antidepressants are sort of a misnomer, too. There aren't too many people that abuse antidepressant medication.
You do not get high on antidepressant medication. They take a long time to work, to begin to get into your system. My sponsor, this is a year and a half ago, came over one day. She wasn't my sponsor. She was just my good friend who had tried to stay with me. She spoke to me, and she said, please try again. She was one of those people that I heard about in the talk. I went to see a specialist in New York.
I told him I was an alcoholic, and I began again in AA. I began again, and I was sober about four months. I remember telling my sponsor, I'm doing all these things, and I'm on medication. I said, I don't feel as though I belong, but I went. People were kind to me, although there were a few people that knew about my psychiatric hospitalizations. I always felt a tiny bit of a stigma. I often say when I speak at regular AA meetings now that I wish I carried a videotape with me.
I don't know that I look that great today, but if you people had seen me 18 months ago, I was unable to speak. I could barely shower. I was literally a basket case from both of my diseases. I was introduced to double trouble at about five months in my sobriety. I was working in the field at the time, helping out as a volunteer at a mental hospital.
[00:25:03]
When I went to double trouble, I felt that I was no longer alone. I felt that there was a place I could come and speak about my medication. Also, meeting other people who were staying sober in AA or trying to stay sober in AA made me identify even more. For some strange reason, it also made me feel much more a part of AA. I also began to work with people in the double trouble area. I guess like they say in AA, when you help somebody else, you help yourself.
So it also made me feel a part of AA. When I run a particular double trouble meeting and the people that I work with, we suggest very much that they try to mainstream or become part of AA. We run our particular meeting just like an AA meeting, a beginner's AA meeting, and we really try to suggest strongly to begin to get their feet wet in AA. I'm a firm believer for myself that double trouble was the springboard for me to find real acceptance in AA.
It's very difficult for some people like myself and others with serious psychiatric disorders. It's hard for any newcomer in AA. I believe myself that it is doubly hard for somebody with two handicaps to get started in AA. But I believe that AA has given me my life, my sobriety, and we're hopeful of becoming more and more a part of the AA group. Just to ask any of you out there, it's very hard to know who's one of those percentage that needs to be on medication.
But if by some chance in your group you know of people, just let them know that they're not alone. And if they follow the guidelines in this particular pamphlet, it will help them to stay sober. Thank you very much. Thank you, John. I think I've run out of time. So, Georgia, John, maybe explain something about the structure of the meetings when they're… All right, one minute. After. Question and answers.
Thank you very much. That was a wonderful presentation. And thank you to the young ladies who shared with us here. I think it is very well worthwhile. We will have time, and I hope we will have plenty of time for questions and answers after the meeting is over. And there's another young man there who is wishing to help out in this, and he will share with you his experience. Our next speaker will be Don L. from Wisconsin, who will address reaching the physically handicapped.
Don? My name is Don. I'm an alcoholic. I'm also a paraplegic and a real nice guy. I just want to add to what our emcee said about the fire. He said that when everybody rushed for the door, I just want to add, if you notice, I'm up here two steps. Somebody grabbed the paraplegic. I'd just like to share with you a little bit about my lying in the wheelchair. People tend to want to know what happened.
And I have Guillain-Barre syndrome. I was thinking about that this morning, where I happen to be at and what else it's called. And it's also called French polio. And that's nothing against the French. That just happens to be the two doctors, Guillain and Dr. Barre, who discovered the viral infection many years ago. And I was a 100% healthy individual nine years ago. And I was shaving one morning to go to work, and I slowly started paralyzing.
And then about four hours, I was in intensive care with a tracheotomy and on life-saving machines for about seven months. And then I spent the next two years in hospitals. They were going to place me in a nursing home. And instead of that, they sent me to a rehab hospital where I spent eight, nine, ten hours a day in therapy. And after two years of that, I did go home. And I now live independently in Merrill, Wisconsin.
And I have my own home and about ten acres of land. And I'm doing very well. I have a van, and I'm totally independent. My alcoholism did not start with my disability. My alcoholism was always there as far as I'm concerned. If anything, my disability, being in a wheelchair, probably… Being in a wheelchair probably brought it to a head sooner. Had I not ended up in a wheelchair, I probably would be dead.
[00:30:03]
Because the drinking gave me more, the wheelchair just gave me more time. I remember years ago when I was in the rehab hospital and the therapists there were teaching me the ADA, activities of daily living, and they were trying to teach me to go home and be independent. Way back here in my mind I thought, I wonder how I'll be able to open a bottle of beer if I don't have good use of my hands. As a good alcoholic, I didn't want to ask her how to open a bottle of beer. I didn't think she'd understand that.
So I said, how do you open a bottle of ketchup? And it worked. They're similar. But that's what happened. When I got home and my drinking increased, one of the things that happened, I also did a lot of drinking while I was in the health care facilities. I just have a few thoughts to share with you. I'm the medical people. The good doctors and nurses and the health care people that helped me. While I was being treated, I was doing a lot of drinking. I was kind of a patient in the hospital who became kind of outgoing and made up my mind I was going to be a friend of all the people who were supposed to help me.
And that worked. One of the things they did was they took me out on passes frequently. Not just weekends, but two or three nights a week. And they were also very willing to let me drink as much as I wanted to. My doctors, and this is not a negative statement about doctors, but doctors had a thing about not getting me back up walking. And that type of feeling of guilt, and we're going to do as much as we can for him, and now we can't get him walking.
And it was very easy for me to say I've got pain here and I'm nervous, and get some Valium or get some Percodan and that type of situation. And I think that was just because they looked at me, and as many people, they saw the wheelchair, and I think they kind of blamed themselves for therapists who were trying to work with the legs and the arms and those type of things and not being able to face the reality of confronting and saying this is the way life is going to be.
I have no negative feelings about the health care people, actually, because ultimately they are the people who did get me back into a wheelchair, I was going to say on my feet, I almost forgot. One of the things happened, my drinking got worse when I got home from the hospital, and I ended up one night calling my friends and asking them for help. And at that point I said I think I drink too much sometimes.
I suspect I'm the first person who's ever said that. But they thought I was maybe a little bit crazy, and I thought I was crazy too. And they got their heads together and they were going to do something with me, and they got a court order, and they didn't have to use that because by the time they got to me I just thought I was insane. And I ended up in a health care center, and I ended up in a drug and alcohol unit.
I woke up the next morning and felt good again and wanted to go back home, and somebody suggested I should stay a few days, and that's what happened. I said I'll stay three days. I ended up staying for the full 21 days, but in that three days the reality of what I was hit me head on, and that's that I was an alcoholic. I wasn't just a crazy, insane person. A lot of things happened to me in treatment, and the biggest thing that happened was one day in one of the sessions one of the nurses said to me, if you had the chance to walk again or drink again, what would you take?
And the realization hit me that there was no question in my mind that I would prefer to stay sober another day rather than to ever walk again. And that became the reality that my real disability was alcoholism and not paraplegia, and that we all here today share the same disability. We could all be up here talking about that. I just happened to be in a wheelchair, and at best a wheelchair in my life is an inconvenience some time.
When I see the crowds of people out here looking for a place to sit down, it's not so bad. When I see the people on the elevator and I'm one of them, it's not too good. When I have to use the bathroom and there's one step, it's not too good. But I've learned to adjust to that. I couldn't learn to adjust to the alcoholism. I didn't know what it was all about.
[00:35:01]
I couldn't just drink one drink. And I finally realized that I had saved my life. Paraplegia was not killing me. The best it was doing was making life a little more frustrating at times, and the only thing that was affected were my arms and my legs. The alcohol was affecting my mind, and that went first. I think for me it's a mental illness, and I was mentally ill. There's no question about it. I was in manic depression.
I was crazy. There's nothing else. I was at a conference in Milwaukee a few weeks ago, and there was a doctor there who said that I am now considered multi-disabled, and I'm not sure about that. My friends would say it could be AAA multi, if you knew me better. But my real disability still remains the alcoholism. As long as I don't take that drink today, I can deal with anything. There's nothing that can happen today that my higher power and I can't deal with, and I don't care what that is.
I do want to share with you a reality that I became aware of, though, and that's one of the big boogeyman's, and I think there are several big ones to this disease we have, but one of the biggest is excuses. When I got into treatment, I thought I had a lot of good reasons why I drank, and my wheelchair was a good reason. Somebody told me one day that my reason was an excuse, and I realized that if there's three alcoholics together and somebody drinks because he fights with his wife and the next one fights with her husband and the next one drinks because he's in a wheelchair, he's probably going to die first because he's got the best excuse, and it shows.
And everybody gives you permission. I have many, many friends who I've talked to and wondered why they never confronted me on my drinking and my behavior and all that type of thing, and they wanted to many, many times, but they always thought the wheelchair first. And that's a person who can let you know that he has a brain tumor or that his wife is dying of a brain tumor will probably die too because that's a good excuse.
My wheelchair was no more an excuse is an excuse is an excuse. And I really feel that the poor me type of thing was, disabled people particularly have to be aware of that because the fact that we can get ourselves into it and that other people see it and there's a lot of frustrating things. One of the things I also found was that when I got into AA, even some of the AA people were kind of, my God, he's an alcoholic and a cripple?
He can't have two of those things? Wow, that's kind of, they saw the wheelchair much more than they saw the alcoholism. Today, that doesn't happen much anymore. It seems as people get to know me, I don't get a lot of respect back home. Laughter That's the contingent from the bus that came down. Laughter In conclusion, I want to tell you that today, the only thing that is the same about me that is the same before I drank is my name.
Nothing else in my life is the same. I'm a different human being. I have nothing but a good sobriety, a good life. When I found out that I had a disease that was choice, when I get up every morning, I can decide whether I'm going to drink or not. When I sleep on the bed, I don't even have to decide whether I'm going to walk or not. I know I'm not going to, so I get in the wheelchair, but I can decide whether I'm going to drink, and I choose not to.
And it's self-treating. I also made a decision that if I had a disease that was self-treating, it was also the type of recovery that was going to be choice, and I choose a good recovery. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you, Dan. That was absolutely marvelous. Thank you for sharing. Our next presenter will be Arthur M. from Massachusetts, who will discuss reaching the hearing-impaired alcoholic. Arthur is deaf, and your workshop will be signed, Arthur.
So I would like some volunteers to speak.
[00:40:00]
My name is Arthur, and I am an alcoholic and drug addict. And I'd rather stand here. I can't use the podium, because my sign language would not be as visible to the deaf friends. My deafness began at birth. So my family were not happy. My father was gone. He was dead. My mother was drinking too much, and I did not want to follow my mother's sway. But later I developed a problem with alcohol, myself, and drugs using.
And I took advantage a lot, because many times the police would stop me while I was drunk driving. The police would ask me to see my driver's license. But I would refuse, and I would use my lip reading. I would refuse to sign. I would show them that I could not hear. And I just played dumb with them. And they let me go. They let me go on home. And that happened again and again. Finally, the last time, a friend invited me to go over to their house, and they had a keg of beer.
And I said, oh, all right. I'm game for that. I drink a lot. Are there other deaf people here? One or two, or one or two? Who tried to drink all of a keg? Is there anybody here who ever tried to drink a whole keg? All the deaf people who are here? Two-handed drinking? I didn't finish it, but early the next morning, when I woke up, I was in a hospital. I was in a hospital. Early the next morning, when I woke up, I was in a hospital.
What's this? I want to get out. To get out of this hospital. No, no. Broken leg. Really, really. Yes. How? I don't remember what happened. My memory is foggy. So I would have to stay in the hospital. My company worker, my co-worker, whose name is Jim, M, from Massachusetts, he came to visit me and asked me, what happened? Oh, my van was, there was a problem with the brake. It just didn't start. There was a brake. It just didn't seem to work.
And I tried to stop, but it just wouldn't stop. It was really my drinking. And because I didn't want to stop my drinking, I said that. So he let it go, and I was alone. He left me alone. After two months later, he noticed that I had a problem with drinking. I knew nothing about that, and he asked me, can you control yourself, like, to one drink? I said, yes, yes, yes. Okay, he let me go. Okay, so I took one drink, and I was thirsty for more, more, more.
And I thought about what he had said. Hmm. Try to control with one. Oh, booey on that. I can't do that. I will not. So, then he talked about sober living and sobriety, and other words that were new to me. And I, huh, what's with this fellow? And it was, he's worse off than I am. One year later, my physical health became worse. I was shaking. I was in crazy feelings and sweating. And I thought that I, that it was only because of the deafness that I had this problem with alcohol.
I had this problem with alcohol, and I was the only deaf alcoholic in the world, but my friends, again, I asked Jim for help, and he did help.
[00:45:11]
He tried to find, and it was at Cape Cod, so, all right, we'll try, we'll go there. I will go there, and I will learn about their program, but I really did not understand about the Twelve Steps. Okay, I read them, I saw them, but about God, G-O-D, God, power, what is this, I cast it aside. I didn't want to know about God, I did not understand, but I met people, I met deaf alcoholics there, and had a chance to get together with them, and that went well.
Then when I graduated from the Stephen Miller House program, and I went back home, I did keep going to AA meetings, but I felt alone, I felt alone, and everyone, most of the hearing people would kind of go other sides of the room, and try to avoid, or, avoid from AA. I came to avoid AA, or they avoided me, but my sponsor, he kept in touch with me, and he would ask me, do you want to go over to my house for coffee, and I'd say, oh, fine, fine, I'll go over to your house, so then he would look at his watch, and he'd say, oh, come on, it's time to go to an AA meeting with me, oh, okay, okay, and this kept on and kept on.
I moved to Rochester, New York, because, to go to college. I had a slip. I had a relapse. I was a college student at NTID, and I did not know where there was AA groups in Rochester, so I didn't want to make a phone call to AA service center, I wouldn't do that. I was off and on about it, I did not trust the interpreters, I had mixed feelings there. I decided to drop out and drink. I met a person whose name is John B., and we drank and chatted, and he asked me about the big book that he saw on the bookshelf in my dorm room, what is that book, oh, I took it down, and I showed him the book, and I was drunk when I did it, and so I gave it to him, and he went for psychological counseling, and I met the counselor, and I needed AA, I told the counselor I needed AA because I felt the same as a dropout, I felt like jumping from a window from my 10th floor dorm room because of my depression and confused feelings and drugs, and the counselor gave me an AA meeting list, which I looked down through it and said okay, I went to the group called the home group, but I kept quiet, I didn't tell them I was deaf, I wouldn't say that I was deaf, I kept my mouth shut about that because I didn't want to meet anyone, and so I kept quiet, I kept it hidden, and I did not, it was denial, it was a denial of my handicap.
But a woman named Shan and Tori, both of them, they noticed my behavior, and they knew that I was deaf. I don't know how, I don't know how they know, but they came up to me, and they were all smiles, and I said darn it, they got me, and they asked me how, Shan asked me, how long have you been sober, and I said oh, one week, one week, she said good, good, once a week, I would go to an AA meeting once a week, and because I was busy, I dropped
[00:50:02]
out and said goodbye Shan, and then another one week went by, I was sober, but my date of sobriety, I wrote it down, another week, I would write another date of sobriety in the book, again and again, and Shan, she was feeling like allowing me to, she was about to give up on me or let me go my way, then ten months later, my physical health became worse and really craziness and shakes, and I met Shan and asked her, I need help, and really badly, then in the first place, that I had gone to a rehab, a treatment center, I learned about myself, looking into myself, I did not at that time know who I was, I didn't know who I was, I kept going and going to AA meetings every day, ninety meetings in ninety days, what, that was their favorite saying, three hundred and sixty-five times in three hundred and sixty-five days, I kept going and going, it didn't matter, I kept going and going and going, I met other deaf people, alcoholics, I went to Ohio, to Pennsylvania, met other deaf alcoholics, met alcoholic persons in wheelchairs, met blind persons, it didn't matter what, I enjoyed meeting them, and I kept going and going. I decided to leave college, move back to Cape Cod, but my feelings were not comfortable about it, quite queasy, working, I had been working, going to the AA meetings, now the time at Cape Cod, at that time Cape Cod had only one interpreter, one interpreted meeting a week, that was the only AA meeting, and that was frustrating, because I couldn't understand the speaker, and I couldn't understand the discussion group either, nothing in them, but I kept working in contact with deaf alcoholics, we hung together as a group, and we got together, and somehow Marie Kay asked me, would you like to be a counselor for the deaf? I'm willing to help the deaf alcoholics, I will go and work with deaf alcoholics from all over the USA, and Canada, college to learn from them, the deaf alcoholics would help me a lot, and did help me a lot, as we helped each other, we shared what we learned as we worked together, I realized that it doesn't matter with the deaf, with the deafness, the ears don't matter, it is, we are alcoholics, it is our alcoholism, we are alcoholics, I realized that most deaf alcoholics will have denial, that we are handicapped, and we feel defensive from hearing the world, because of communication breakdowns, so I told them, we do not need to be defensive against the hearing world, no, no, we should involve ourselves with all people together, alcoholics, cooperating in fellowship to help each other, also I went to different groups in our locality, some AA groups do not have an
[00:55:05]
interpreter, and that's fine with me, I will ask someone to write notes to me, all right, or after the meeting is finished, then I will meet, and we'll do the note-writing at that time, and I enjoy that, now I even have paper with me now, you see, it doesn't matter, also I work on the twelve steps, twelve steps are very important to me to understand, the first time that I read them over about power, powerless, over alcohol, okay, I accepted that, unmanageability, hmm, what's that word, I, no, no, no, I can control my life, I can control things, I can control things, and I, yeah, I've been to jail, yeah, but the problems, but most deaf alcoholics do not understand about the twelve steps, because of their language limitations, the language is at too high a level for them, the most percentage of deaf alcoholics who are at a low level of language, of English, rather, so I tried to translate the steps, the steps myself, taking my time, but there are four different translations, we know, four different levels, for different deaf people to understand, to choose the one which is at their understanding level, I enjoy helping and working together with them, when we set up an AA group of the deaf in Falmouth, Massachusetts, one time, there were three deaf alcoholics who lived in Falmouth, but now, it has grown to more, some deaf alcoholics prefer living in Falmouth, because of the fellowship, we can get, keep in contact together, and it is growing, our program is growing there, I realize now that to be focused on mental retardation needs a focus, I realize that there are some deaf mentally retarded persons who really understand nothing, and who do have problems with alcoholism too, so I want to try to help them, bring them in, it is hard, because of the communication difference or distance, we do not identify with the same language, we could be, they could be bored, when I am signing and the interpreter might not understand, the sign language used in the home might be different from what would be used in an interpreted meeting, I would like to tell you all a short story, and it is a true story, I went to Boston to a workshop about alcoholism, Sunday morning, I looked around at the stores, the clothing stores, looked at my watch, said no, and I, boy, I had a look of, shitty look on my face, dripping right down my face, I saw my reflection in the spare windows, and I cancelled out on going to the workshop, and I went home, and I told my friend about my bullshit look on my face, and my shitty expression on my face, and that meant that you have, my friend told me, good luck, something, good luck, really, really, I was, I ran back to that store, and I bought a lottery ticket, and I was really eager on my win, no luck, no luck, the next day, someone, The next day, someone who called me and asked me would you like to speak out in Montreal at the convention? What? So here I am. All right. So that was the higher power. That's it. Thank you.
[01:00:18]
This is really fantastic. Thank you, Arthur. We have some, we have about 25 minutes left for a question and answer. And John, I want to thank you too for helping out. And this young lady, I don't know her name over here. And anybody else who really is wishful to help out this afternoon would be just great. We'd appreciate it all. We will have questions and answers and we need all your help. And we have the three presenters here who will be willing and able to answer any questions you may have. I am very poor at this myself as I am absolutely lost and I am amazed with this panel really. It's terrific. It makes me feel real good. It makes me very humble. Now we're open for questions.
A question for Arthur please. A question for Arthur. When you went to 90 meetings in 90 days or a meeting a day or 365 meetings in a year, were those interpreted meetings? How did you get into meetings that you could understand and be understood? Were they deaf, alcoholic meetings? I don't understand how you could do that. In Rochester, New York, we do have about nine interpreted meetings a week in Rochester, New York. Thank you for your question.
They are paid. They are paid in Rochester. A8. Interpreters should always be paid. Interpreters should always be paid. This gentleman down here. I'm Jim H. and I'm an alcoholic. In my sponsor and I had three men commit suicide. I believe the AA program has in myself worked on psychological problems that I've had and I see it working in others. How do we recognize a problem that is beyond us that should be referred to psychological doctors or help?
I had eight years of training and I'll try to give you eight years of training in a couple of minutes. The best way I can tell you is I'm also a medical director of an alcoholism treatment unit. How I become aware of somebody having a severe psychiatric problem on the unit is they don't fit in. I get feedback that somehow they're different. They don't fit in. They don't feel comfortable in the group.
This is after they're there for a week or so. They're still not fitting in. I'd say any time you have somebody having hallucinations or delusions, you should always refer them for professional help. Sometimes they are alcohol related, but after a week, at the most two weeks, they should not have any hallucinations or delusions. If they do, that's a serious problem. If depression is a serious problem, as you brought up, people die from depression, people die from psychotic illnesses.
[01:05:07]
If a person is just withdrawn, if they seem flat in expression all the time, they're not able to have any expression on their face, these are some of the symptoms that I would be looking for. These are some of the symptoms that I would be looking for. The person who seems to be working the program and has repeated slips, I'd say I would suspect of some type of underlying psychiatric condition that should be at least assessed whether it needs medication.
I'm talking about mainly psychiatric illnesses that are probably biologically based and need medication. Other psychiatric illnesses need psychotherapy. My general rule for that is don't go for psychotherapy your first year, wait and see what AA can do for you, because it's been my experience also that AA takes care of a lot of psychological problems. In fact, some what we call personality disorders, I have found the best treatment for them to be, if they also have alcoholism, to be AA.
But those are some of the symptoms that would draw my attention to people being referred for professional help. If possible, if you can locate a psychiatrist in your area who is also knowledgeable about alcoholism, I'd say that's probably the best. You will not be able to be picked up on the mic unless you come over to the mic here. I've got a question for Don. I'm blind. I can't see. I'm sorry. But I've got a question for Don. Are you crippled or are you disabled?
Don, he wants to know, are you crippled or are you disabled? It always seems as a new term. Before I was in a wheelchair, I'm sure I looked at people as crippled. When I first ended up in a wheelchair, I was handicapped. While I was in treatment, I heard it was changing to disabled, and I understand now the word is disabled, that we're disabled. I guess handicapped or disabled, I kind of go along with whatever happens to be the most popular.
It seems the new people, maybe similar to the new people in the AA, the new people to the disabled world come in with new ideas too. Now it's all we're disabled. I guess certainly crippled is an inappropriate term. It just is. I don't care. And I do react when I hear people say that. But that's just inappropriate for everybody or anything at any time. I just don't like that. I think disabled with limitations is what I am.
I have some limitations, but there isn't anybody sitting out here that doesn't have limitations. So I don't know, Dave, anything more than that. We all do. I guess that is where we see ourselves. I'm going to take this moment, I forgot to say something before, and that if any of you people ever have a chance personally or know somebody has an opportunity, and you're going to start an AA meeting or change an AA meeting or make a new AA meeting or whatever, just give some thought if it's going to be accessible or not.
Yes. My name is Lyle and I'm an alcoholic. And I have a condition of cerebral palsy. And I'd like to direct my question at both Don and Art.
[01:10:05]
Don, you just made a very important statement because that has a lot to do with my question. And that is how do those of us who have a hard time getting up and down church basement stairs get to AA meetings? And I think that's a problem. It does prevent the disabled from participating. And the second part I'd like to ask you is, and I think you touched on it, and that is mainstream in the regular AA.
I have found that my disability has sort of gotten in the way, but I try to get around it by being as active as I can. And I find that I can clean out ashtrays and pick up chairs just like anybody else. Perhaps I'm not the best person to chair a meeting, but I do want to share that, too. In fact, I was just elected director of my group, so I guess I'm on the road. But I'd like to hear, Art, and how you feel about mainstream.
Is it that big an important issue? I agree with you. I think we should be mainstreamed. I think accessibility to meetings is certainly something I would like to see AA in. I'd like to see AA in New York be very aware of, and that's where it should start from. That's where it should begin, and then locally. I think it's happening. I think AA is like the rest of society. I think handicapped parking, I think the curbs, ramps, that's happening certainly from my disability, and a lot of it is new.
It's a good time to be disabled, because society is responding, and I think mainstreaming is a good thing. I think also I like what Art said before about going to meetings where there are people who are non-hearing impaired and the deaf. My God, if we're alcoholic, we all have something in common. I go out to a juvenile correctional facility every Saturday morning for an AA meeting with kids, and somebody said, what do you have in common with them kids?
I tell you what, I can't talk too much about the current music or what's popular in their clothes, but when we talk about being sick alcoholics and recovering from alcoholism, we can talk all day. I think that we should mainstream, because if there's anybody who should be aware of pain and suffering in the world and should not have prejudice, it's everybody in this room, if you've been where I've been.
Thank you. That was a good question. So, I like mainstreaming. Also, we have a group, we have one group. We have a group for hearing impaired, for wheelchairs, it doesn't matter. We have a group meeting, alone, once a week. alone, once a week, for people who can get their feelings of frustration out, and they can feel a special identification together, that group, once a week, six times a week,
[01:15:00]
six days, we get together mainstreamed, into regular AA meetings, and that doesn't matter, handicap meeting, and the hearing, and are they different, no, they are both the same, the same feelings in both meetings, it doesn't matter, I do not want pity, on the wheelchaired man, no, nor do I want you to have pity on me, no, we are the same feelings, we are both alcoholic, and that's it, thank you, hi, I'm Mary, I'm an alcoholic, hi everyone, I work in a mental health unit, and ran into Dr. Hurd this morning, and I'm curious, it's the first I've ever heard of a double trouble meeting, and I'd like to know, as someone who works in mental health, how I might start a double trouble meeting, and I also want to know, as a mainstream AA, how I might, you know, implement having, you know, meetings more accessible, having an interpreter at the meetings I go to, what I might do, I'm really overwhelmed by the panel, I really feel I'm very blessed to be here, thank you, I'll turn this over to my colleague, John, okay, hi, my name is John, and I'm an alcoholic, hi John, and I'm really glad to be here too, I also feel very blessed to be at this panel, I, okay, okay, I have to go up on the stage, I do not have double trouble myself that I know of, a lot of people would disagree with that statement, but I have worked with people who have serious mental illness problems for 14 years now, and Herb was right, it was Herb and I, and Tran actually, were involved in that first double trouble meeting three years ago, there are currently in New Jersey 12 double trouble meetings, they are, have been listed not as specifically as double trouble meetings in the Central Jersey Intergroup, and we're still talking to representatives from the North Jersey Intergroup about how these meetings can become groups, I would be happy afterwards to share information about how we got meetings started, we're very pleased that there are so many meetings happening, for anybody who works in the field of mental health, they know that as a result of deinstitutionalization, the problem of psychiatrically impaired alcoholism is on the rise dramatically, people who were once housed and warehoused in back wards of large psychiatric hospitals are now on the streets of our communities and are running into all the same problems that all the rest of us have, so I'd be happy to share with people how we've gotten meetings started and afterwards. Thank you.
I am Chuck Graves. I am an alcoholic. I am the most fortunate alcoholic I know of. God has blessed me with a feeling of caring. God has done so many other things. He has provided before we realized the need for a location for a deaf AA group in Olathe, Kansas, which is Silent Serenity. Mainstreaming, this is not a mainstreaming effort. The registration does not exclude hearing people from the deaf AA group, nor does any registration that I know of exclude deaf people from a hearing group. We were so blessed that the space which we found is in a basement, and it is not handicap access, but believe me, not for long, sir.
We are two tenants in the basement. We are a spinoff AA group from two other groups in Olathe. Many of these people, when we were meeting in other hearing groups with qualified interpreters, took a great interest when we would bring a deaf person in. They cared. The care was in their face. They didn't have to say anything. You didn't have to be able to read anything to know what those people were feeling. They were feeling welcome, welcome, come in and come back.
[01:20:13]
Some deaf people received the message. Other deaf people did not, or at first, which is exactly parallel, to my knowledge, to hearing alcoholics. I find as time goes on, there is so little difference, but what has happened here is that it is a mainstream effort, yes, but the deaf people have their own ideas. They have their own identity. They have their own group. Their thought is, and their practice is, that we will provide interpreters when hearing people come to our meetings, and we always have a qualified interpreter at the meetings.
There have been few occasions when there was an all-deaf AA meeting, but when that has happened, it is when a person who has been out roaming through the wilderness for months and months and months finally comes in, maybe under court order, but he comes in for an AA meeting. Then the hearing shut up, and the deaf people do their thing with that unfortunate who has just come in. It has reached immediately some people. It has not reached other people.
Art knows of this, because when that point comes, that we cannot do anything with these people, then we send them to Art. I hope I have said what is in my heart, but there is love. Love is our big book, in a way. Love is our 12 steps, in a way. Caring, in a way. When Matt came back from Massachusetts, Art, after the second meeting, he came over and put his arms around me, and he is about that tall and does not hardly weigh, but he came and put his arms around me and I said, thank God, Art did somebody some good. Me, mainly. Thank you.
Hello. I am sorry we will not be able to take any more questions. It is just 3 o'clock, and we will return specifically to close up at 3 o'clock, because we have to get the room ready for another committee coming in. Yes. If you want to speak to any of those people, they will be available outside after this meeting. I think this has been a marvellous meeting. I think it has been absolutely wonderful, and I think we should all stand up and give a round of applause.
I would also like to thank the interpreters and everyone that helped around here. Again, I would like to let you know that these tapes are available, and if you want to order some tapes there, you will get them downstairs at the tape booth on the main floor of the convention hall. And we will close the meeting with the last prayer for anybody who wishes to join us.