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Source: Andrew S – BOX OF CHOCOLATES – 2026-01-22.m4a File: andrew-s-box-of-chocolates-2026-01-22.mp3 Duration: 00:55:23
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Well, with that kind of introduction, Steve, I don't know if Ramona is going to get her job back. That was fantastic. It's not always been my experience that I've been welcomed everywhere I go and said come back and told that I have family and that's not my family because sometimes my family would say that I'm not your family. In fact, I'm thinking about a time right now where I remember I had family tell me like don't tell anyone that you know me.
I'm so mad that you don't talk to me anymore, like you're not part of this family. So I think ever since coming to Alcoholics Anonymous, I've never heard anyone say you are not part of this fellowship, you are not welcome here. And sometimes I think to myself when I see something kind of going cross-eyed sideways in a meeting, maybe that person isn't right for Alcoholics Anonymous, but I'm constantly reminded that we take everyone.
The tent is very big and everyone is welcome and there's always another opportunity for learning how to grow and understanding and effectiveness of what God's will is and how to just love God's kids. Those are very easy spiritual terms that are dropped at our feet pretty early on, just loving God's kids and taking care of them and that's not something that was very easy for me to do before Alcoholics Anonymous and those are things that not came naturally to me.
So I guess I didn't introduce myself. My name is Andrew and I'm an alcoholic from Kentfield, California, which is a little town outside of San Francisco in a county called Marin. My sobriety date is November 27, 2015. My sponsor, his name is Jimmy, he lives in Dallas and I think he knows Ramona and so now I know Ramona and that's how we got connected here. And he told me about the Leonard Skinner opening and that's real exciting and that did not disappoint.
And I don't think California has anything, we have a lot of different openings out here, but we do not have Leonard Skinner. So I appreciate that that is going on. My home group is the fourth dimension group Alcoholics Anonymous and it's a three legacy group. We've got a GSR, we've got secretaries and different people that have commitments there that when they go up to the podium, they know that they're just not trying to look good for themselves, but they're trying to represent what Alcoholics Anonymous has done for them and make it look like a good idea.
And I love being a part of this group because I know I can take my mom who's not alcoholic to that group or my dad or my sister and say, this is where I go and this is what I do and these are the people that I'm around. And being around some people that make Alcoholics Anonymous look like a good idea and that kind of make me feel like, wow, I'm a part of this thing or I'm happy to be a part of this thing gives me a great deal of pride.
And it keeps me coming back and it wants me to remember about all the people that came before me that allowed that meeting to come together and to come up that I didn't know them. I didn't know them, but they allowed that meeting to be there for me. And I try to do the same thing for the people that I'm not going to meet, who are going to come through those doors when I'm gone one day. And that gives me a great sense of purpose in Alcoholics Anonymous.
And that's something else I didn't really walk very easily with early on in my life is having purpose. And I'm from Marin County out here in the Bay Area, and this is where I was born and raised. And I spent a lot of time going up and down the coast for college and school after that. And it's funny, in Alcoholics Anonymous, we start learning that the worst things in life become the best things and the best things maybe weren't as good as they used to be.
And I used to, when I was 18, I wanted to get out of my home where I was living. The people were the problem, the home was the problem, the county was the problem, the principal was the problem, the school freshman basketball coach was the problem, she was the problem. And if I just went over here, I could start new, be fresh, and my problems would go away. And for many years, trying to recreate this new identity with alcohol at the center of it, it got me to this place.
And I'll get back to it later. It got me to this place in 2015. And it was October, late October, it was the 30th of October, I was in San Diego. I had just left again from San Francisco, wanted to start this new life in San Diego.
[00:05:01]
I was chasing the girl that didn't want to be with me anymore in a career that I wasn't sure that I was going to be able to make for myself. And I was down there and selling everything that I had just to get there. And I got this letter and I was waiting down there for my ticket to be punched in my professions. I'm in part of a profession that has a license attached to it. And if you don't have this license, you can't punch your ticket.
If you can't punch your ticket, you can't really, you know, you can't really make a living for yourself the way you think you should be making a living for yourself. And so I was waiting for my ticket to get punched. And it was going to get punched, I was hoping in November, but in October, I got this letter. In October, this letter came to my address and it was from the state agency. And the state said, you know, Mr. Scott, we have some questions for you before we, you know, push you on through, we'd like you to ask some questions.
So I'm reading this letter. I'm like, all right, what is it? Like when's my, did I get my birthdate wrong? Or did I have something about my car registration off? Or do I need a little clarification about, you know, something I had wrong in my application? And so this letter comes to me and I'm reading and expecting all this stuff. And it says, Mr. Scott, it's come to our attention that you were terminated from this job in X year.
Can you please explain to us about that termination? And I'm reading that and I'm just kind of like, huh, how did they even know I worked there? I didn't even tell them that. How do they know I was terminated? And so another question goes, Mr. Scott, can you please tell us about your credit score and your financial situation? Like, okay, that's pretty easy. I mean, it's not good credit. I'm in some debt, but you know, that can't be like a bar to entry for someone like me.
That would be prohibitive for everybody. So then I think I can get my way out of that one. They start asking another question. Mr. Scott, why did you tell your school that you were arrested for this, but you actually were arrested for that? I'm like, okay, so they have a point there. I might've been wrong about how I disclosed that arrest and I could be a little bit more accurate, but surely that can't be the only reason to keep me out of this profession.
I mean, I'm actually disclosing something. I just got to change the harm of the crime, you know, this DUI. And I said that was a reckless and I don't know. And so then they asked another question, Mr. Scott, like, why didn't you disclose any of your arrests to this institution? I'm like, whoa, did I really not disclose any arrests to this institution? I was thinking to myself, man, that can't be true because I'm the type of alcoholic that, you know, when I lie and I live on that lie, it is the guilt and the shame is so deep for me that I do anything that I can do to push that away and hide it and bury it.
And so when I was reflecting on that in that moment, I had completely forgotten that three or four years before that, I had completely lied about all eight or nine arrests that I had. Maybe they're nine. Maybe they're eight. I can't remember. Let's just call it nine. Nine arrests that I had for drinking. And when they asked me, have you ever been arrested for anything? I decided to say no, thinking that like, that really can't be what they mean.
Like they wouldn't want to hold me out of their institution because I had this like drinking arrest. Like I'm older, I'm better now. Like let's not let that get in the way. And I'm the type of alcoholic that will lie because I need to get what I want. And if I told you the truth, you wouldn't understand that I'm really someone that cares and I'm different and that, you know, my case is one that you need to take on.
And like a little lie is like, it's reasonable for me to do this. Like I could lie on this and get what I need and that'd be okay. So they asked me that question. I knew I was going to have a tough time getting myself out of that, that pickle. And then they asked me a really tough question. I think the toughest one that I didn't know how to, the toughest one that I didn't really know how to get myself out of this lie or even tell them an answer.
And they said, Mr. Scott, what is your relationship to alcohol? Which is something I've never really considered. And when we say relationship to alcohol, Mr. Scott, what's it been historically? When did you take your first drink? What was it like when you were drinking? How many drinks do you currently take on a regular basis? And what happens when you drink? And this is what they were asking me and I'm like, wow, that's a weird question.
Like, I mean, one, like they'll never be able to prove that I'm telling them the truth. And two, the harder one is if I tell you all the truth, you are not going to understand that it's okay, that I'm okay the way I drink. Because like when you're an alcoholic, you never know whether one's going to be enough.
[00:10:03]
And without any type of certainty, I cannot tell you whether if I drink one, I'm actually going to enjoy it, or if I'm trying really hard to control it. Because when I do drink, and when I was reflecting on that question, I chase the effect. I chase that effect that is so elusive, that I remember when the first time I had that, someone was talking to me the other day about like, hey, you know, when I first drank alcohol, I was 13, or someone, there was a speaker, I first drank, I was 14.
Or when I first drank, I blacked out. That doesn't necessarily make you an alcoholic. I was thinking about this the other day. It's like, when I first felt the effect produced by alcohol, that made me chase it. And I knew that was something that I could never not try to chase again, that elusive feeling. I remember I was in my dorm room, and there were a bunch of people around, and I felt very socially awkward.
In high school, I was not someone that was drinking very much. In middle school, I did not drink early on. My dad told me that drinking was dangerous, and you wouldn't be a good person if you drank, and you wouldn't get very far. So I was always very scared of alcohol. I might have done some other things other than alcohol, but I never really drank. And when I got to college, my folks went around, and there was applause, and there were people, and just kind of like how Bill talks about his story, like Maelstrom, the whirlwind of Wall Street, of the people around him.
He just felt like he was part of that scene. When I got to school, and the scene was there, and I felt a part of, and I belonged with them, they had this, I remember this guy, Charles, he had this Southern Comfort Whiskey handle. And I never really had whiskey. Now, y'all are from the South, and I'm up here in Northern California, and I'm sure whiskey exists in Northern California, but it just wasn't something in Marin County that we were doing.
We weren't doing Southern Comfort Whiskey. So we were maybe doing a little vodka or something for the high school, but not whiskey. And so when he put this whiskey in front of me, I felt like this fear come over me, and Bill talks about it often in his story. There's two spots that right before he drank again, he felt this fear. And so when I had this whiskey come around me, and I said, Andrew, here you go, here's the SoCo, I felt this fear hit me, but I also felt the people around me were watching.
And I felt that if I were to engage in this drink, and I were to chug it, or drink it, or do it something for the applause and the admiration, I would have punched my ticket in that circle, because that was the ticket that I was looking to punch. And so when I took that drink, and I drank it, and you feel that warm kind of like flow kind of hit the throat and into the lungs, that's what it feels like into the chest.
And I just felt, and I still think about right now, I just felt like this utter silence, this feeling of like, this is perfect, this quiet, like my mind was quiet. And then when I woke up from that, I heard people cheering and applausing, and there were girls there, and the guys were cheering, and I just felt like, man, I had arrived. This was amazing. And even me telling you today, like, I don't know when my last drink, I don't know when that first drink was when I was 18, and I'm 42 now.
I'm still remembering that like, it's some special moment. And I know I drank before that, but it was that drink that I remember chasing that sensation that has me always thinking about like going back. Like that is like for the alcoholic, the mind, the thought, like that was that moment. And so I know I couldn't really tell him that in that letter, like, what was it like when you first drank and then like, you know, every single time after that, myself blacking out and I would drink zero to 60.
I would drink before I would like, you know, I would pre drink to the pre drink to the pre drink in the shower with a keystone or a natty light or something like that. Before you get out of the shower, then it's time for another one. And then when you're getting dressed, it's time for another one. And you're just like, it's not normal when I look at that. You know, I might have been around some people that might have thought it was normal.
But when I look at that, it's not normal. And I certainly wasn't going to tell a state agency like, what's it like when you drink if you really had your druthers how you like to drink? Like, they just wouldn't understand that type of drinking. You know, when the type of drinking where, you know, you want to drink as much as you can and blackout because you don't know what's going to happen to you and you want to hear about it the next day about what you did, how you did and get the credit for it.
And you wake up with a black eye and tuna fish sandwich on your on your on your chest and you think it's funny. And you can't wait to do it again, because it was worth it. Like not one time early on in my career that I think, you know, drinking wasn't for me or I took it too far. And that includes doing things that were pretty dangerous, like getting into cars and driving them and things that are very scary to me now.
[00:15:01]
but back then it just seemed like a normal life. I couldn't tell the difference between the true and the false. Like that felt like my only normal way to go. And so I couldn't really tell the state agency that. And then when I think about it looking back on, you know, what I've understood from Alcoholics Anonymous and reading our literature and being around people is that my relationship to alcohol is not just when I'm drinking it, it's when I'm not drinking it.
And I got this thing about the mental obsession, that obscure kind of mental twist that we all have that at any given time, knowing how I drank and what happened and how bad it went or how it's not good for anyone, there's a good chance that an idea comes into my head that certain circumstance and a certain situation, a drink sounds good. And I remember when I first swore off of drinking because something, you know, I had a DUI and probably my eighth arrest and I actually decided to swear off of it because maybe alcohol was the problem.
And I kind of just stopped drinking, which all alcoholics know how to do. We know how to stop. It's just we don't know how to stay stopped, especially before coming to Alcoholics Anonymous. And so I stopped drinking and then we had a Christmas party probably in 2009 and I was in Los Angeles working downtown and the Christmas party had with it, you know, I hadn't drank for seven months and the Christmas party brought with it all you can eat at this steakhouse with an all you can drink kind of thing too.
And I remember there was a, and I still think about it, this very cool, slender, tall glass of like beer with an IPA, with that frothy and it frothy, you know, a little top layer and it had that emotional appeal for me where I was like, that looks good. And for some reason, I still don't understand why and I wasn't thinking about it, just like it says in Jim's story and what Jim's experience was, I wasn't thinking about drinking that day and that beer comes around and it's free and I had just like half of it.
But like, I was off to Vegas in like five hours from Los Angeles. I don't know how that happened, but I was in Vegas and I don't remember what happened. And that's what happens for a guy who's an alcoholic, you know, it's alcoholism, is that even when you're not drinking, you have a relationship to alcohol. And when you are drinking, we all understand what that relationship could look like and maybe there were times where I was trying to control my drinking, if I controlled it, then I didn't think I was alcoholic, I didn't have a problem.
But sometimes, some place later on down the line, if I continue to engage in the drink the way I did, a time and place would come where it's been out of control and I would either hurt myself or hurt someone else. I would not be a functioning member of society or in my family, like maybe some people might think I am today. So I didn't understand that relationship to alcohol part. And I remember my thought was, well, I can't tell this state agency how I drink because I like Southern Comfort Whiskey.
I like getting black eyes and hearing about it and doing silly things. And I like drinking before I'm even supposed to start drinking in the shower. And there's never a bad time for me to start thinking about drinking and what to drink and how to do it. Can't tell them that because that probably wouldn't look good for my moral character. And I thought, and I didn't really understand that when I'm not drinking, I have a relationship to alcohol that I'm going to drink again, which will cause some problems.
So my great idea was that if I stopped drinking for a certain period of time, I could then write them a letter that I'm no longer drinking. So I don't no longer have a relationship to alcohol. That is how I was thinking. So that is what I was thinking. And that is my sobriety date of November 27, 2015. On that particular day, I thought that if I'm not drinking anymore, then I don't have a relationship to alcohol.
And then that will take care of that question on a list because that's all I need to do is check a box and to make sure I can answer that question perfectly. And I don't know what it was about me that when I stopped drinking and no one was checking whether I was drinking or not, that I just stayed not drinking for a while. I could have drank, but I think something inside of me was talking to me and calling to me.
And I really do believe that there's a such thing called a divine inconvenience or God speaks to us through different people and places and things. And I think that was a God shot and God was talking to me. And I didn't have to be that story where I was down on my luck and I will never do that again. I got to stop drinking. Let's come back in the house. I had that feeling deep down within that fundamental idea that was telling me like, you're doing it for them, but this is probably a pretty good idea.
So just hold out until they gave you the green light to get what you need and be in the profession you want to be in the profession of. And then you can decide whether you drink again and you'll drink again and I'll be fine.
[00:20:00]
But right now, I think this is a good idea. It's a good thing. Some little spiritual structure in your life to not be drinking. So that's what I did. And I wrote them back. And I thought that was going to be a great thing. And then when I asked for my other institutions to help write letters for me and saying, Hey, I'm sorry, I lied to you about not telling you about all the arrests that I had before I applied to your school.
Can you please write to this agency telling me we're all good? And those schools all wrote to them that they did not support my admission and that I was a dishonest person and they wouldn't have admitted me to their schools had I told them the truth. So now I'm not drinking. I don't have the support of the institutions that I thought were going to help me out. And I'm sitting here waiting, hoping that those institutions and my answers will in combination not prevent me from getting to the place that I need to be, get my ticket punched, get the girl back, get into the profession, you know, arrive in my life and prove everybody in my life wrong.
And I'm doing it my way. So as you can imagine, as alcoholics who aren't drinking and don't have a plan do or spiritual plan, they start thinking about their own plans and what to do. So some of my plans, what it looks like when I'm not drinking and I'm not going to Alcoholics Anonymous and I don't really have a spiritual plan of action, they look like, Hey, maybe we will just grow our hair out and go to Buddhist monasteries once a week and start like reading the Dharma.
Maybe what we'll do is we'll start going to the soup kitchen and volunteer and get that credit on like two hours, one hour here and have them sign off because that will show I'm being a good guy. Same thing with beach cleanups. Maybe I'll go do some beach cleanups and I'll tell them like, Hey, look, I did a beach cleanup. I'm really changing my character. And also, let me go do some things like be more cultured.
Let me try a little code of philosophical morals or philosophies as Weagnostics talks about trying some of those things out, like watching The Godfather on Saturday nights and watching all the Marlon Brando and Humphrey Bogart and all those movies, those classics to make me more of a cultured classic person. And maybe I'll try some painting on my own to pass the time on Monday nights. And maybe I'll go off Craigslist and go buy a used piano and try to teach myself the piano to keep myself busy.
Like, could you feel the untreated alcoholism and the itch just in me right now just trying to like voraciously consume things to make me feel better and okay? I didn't understand this whole irritable, restless and discontentedness or as some people say anxious, angry and depressed. I didn't understand that. I was constantly looking at things on the outside to make me feel a little bit better to get that itch off.
Didn't understand it was the alcohol thing. And I tried to continue to have this life and to do all these new things and get the jobs and lie on my resumes in the meantime to try to get these jobs. I remember during this little spree of these jobs for nine months, I get a job, irritable, restless and discontent right before they were about to let me go because my work product was not good. I couldn't focus and I had this fear that I could never keep a job because I really couldn't.
I'd find a new job to go to just in case they were going to fire me. I had this fear of leaving and going to jobs and I just didn't want to be fired or let go. And I just didn't have the self-esteem to work hard and the integrity to show up. And so the time came after these eight months of, some people call it so dry and I attended a couple AA meetings because I wanted to check a couple boxes to say at least I was trying some AA and I definitely didn't like going.
I thought I was looking for all the differences. My first time I went to a meeting, a guy with eight months came up to me and he handed me a big book and I thought he was going to be my way to give me some type of letter of recommendation until he gave me my first assignment in the big book and he said, why don't you read Bill's story and write me a one page on how you identify. And I read Bill's story and I wrote one page on the first paragraph on how I didn't identify and I didn't go back to that meeting.
But the whole time I was thinking about getting a sponsor who I heard speak that night and I thought she was the most attractive and cutest person I had seen and I just went up to her afterward and I asked her to be my sponsor and talk about it over coffee and I just didn't get it. I just didn't get what was going on at that time and I thought I was going to go to AA and maybe find a date and keep me busy and maybe I could save someone because I really didn't have y'all problems and I had it off a little bit better and if I just got my license punched and all this taken care of, I don't have to be around y'all.
And so I kind of did this routine for a while and I finally got this letter back from the same agency in August of 2016.
[00:25:03]
So if you're counting, it's about eight, nine months that I was not drinking and just trying to live a better life by Buddhist beads, meditations, speech cleanups, and piano playing self-taught. That's what I'm trying to do to keep myself busy and try to run away from a job that I had before they could fire me. And so trying to keep my dignity and integrity and not let someone take it from me is how I was looking at it.
It was like expendable apparently. And I get this letter back and I said, oh, Mr. Scott, we're ready to see you now. Why don't you come on up here to San Francisco and we'll talk to you about your letters that you've written, your beach cleanups, and your rehabilitative acts. And I said, finally, we're finally going to do this. I'm all right. I'm nine months late to the deal. I'm sure they're going to slap me on the wrist a little bit and I'm going to be able to get through.
And I waited it out like a good boy and I'm persevering. You can't keep a good man down is what I thought. And so I get up there and I walk into this room, I still remember it kind of like my first drink. I walk into this room and there's four people sitting on these benches in this room. And you feel like it was an interrogation room. You walked in and there was four of them. And they're all kind of case advisors and reviewers.
I don't remember their names and all that stuff. But I remember the first guy in the middle, he spoke first. He said, you know, Mr. Scott, welcome. I have read your personal statement and you seem to paint the portrait of a compulsive liar. I said to myself, oh, okay, that's a little rough, but I get it. Whatever makes you feel better, go ahead, say it. I've taken a lot worse from people. Like keep going.
And then he says, you seem to have no moral compass. And I'm like, that kind of flew over my head, but that wasn't great to hear. And other people had other pleasant things to say about me that day, other case reviewers, like that I wasn't acting like an adult and I wasn't mature enough or responsible enough to take a position in this profession. And it wasn't a great outcome after that meeting. I got that letter back thinking that I was going to get approved.
And I was denied admission to the profession in 2016. And I'm thinking to myself, wow, so I did all this. I didn't drink. I've done my beach cleanups. I've been becoming a better person with longer hair and more meditation. I'm trying to be as honest as I can about how much in my personal statement I used to lie. And it was a defense mechanism. I had this bad upbringing and I had abuse in the home and there were cops all the time.
And like, if you were in my position, you would like to lie too. When I look back on it, the problem with some of that is that it really wasn't me taking accountability for anything. And I'm so grateful for Alcoholics Anonymous and doing a four-step step and having wonderful sponsors and guides in my life that, you know, circumstances and condition, Andrew, but you need to start taking what your part is in that.
Where's your mistake? And, you know, everything happens for a reason type of deal. And I didn't have that type of guidance. I didn't have any mentorship and I sure as heck wasn't willing to listen to anybody that didn't have materially what I wanted. And so I'm looking back on that and that decision and, you know, it took me nine months plus three years to get through school. And I didn't even mention before that, that I was already kicked out of my first school for cheating on a test and lying and drinking.
And so I came back to that school. So normally for a guy like me, it takes three years to go through school and get licensed. It seems like it's taken me five years to get through school and then another nine months to get licensed. And I got denied for that. And so I'm sitting there, all my plans have just failed. I'm living in San Diego. I don't have the job. This time I was actually let go because of my work product.
I didn't have another job to run to. I didn't have a job. My plans for my license fell through. I didn't have any excuses to tell anybody. And I don't know like why I just got on a plane to go visit a friend that I had in Utah, but I ran out of there and I didn't pick up a drink because I don't know if I stuck around there. I don't know what would have happened. I just ran. I knew I couldn't drink because if I drink and I reapplied again, what would they say?
Why did you drink? And then you're back in the same. So I knew what guy was protecting me in some way by keeping me from drinking, like staying stopped. And I knew I just couldn't go back if I need to drink. And if I had a shot at getting this license again, I ran off to Utah and I talked to my friend for a little bit and I came back to San Diego and I packed up my stuff and at 32 years. Packed up my stuff and at 32 years old, like I moved home with my mom and I didn't have
[00:30:00]
a dollar to my name. She tells me now that when I was at home, the way I used to think about it was I had to ask my mom for $20 to like go eat or go out of the house until recently she just told me that she used to give me $20 because I was so depressing to get me out of the house. So like, you know, that just a different perspective, you know, even, you know, this far along the path, you're still learning new things about how other people saw you and what was happening.
And, you know, it really breaks my heart because my mom's a good lady and she sacrificed a whole lot to try to, you know, talk to principals and save me from school and hire lawyers and do things for me to take care of me in ways that like, you know, I now look back on feeling very grateful about and I was very entitled and I was rude and I was unappreciative. And I only have that realization because of Alcoholics Anonymous and teaching me about, you know, what it means to love and to sacrifice most importantly and my mom has, you know, my mom has a whole lot of sacrifice in her and she did a lot for me so I'm very grateful.
But going back to where I was at, living with my mom, I think the time and place came at that point in my house. I remember it was on November 27th or 26th, really close to my first year of sobriety anniversary. I knew someone that knew someone that was in AA and I picked up the phone and I called that person who called a person and got me a number of someone in AA and I said, you know what? I don't have a job.
I'm going to reapply one day. What's one thing that I could do differently that I didn't do last time and maybe that's try AA. And so I was looking at AA as a means to get my license. I wasn't looking at AA as a means to stop drinking and change my life. That was the unintended side effect of actually coming all the way in and sitting all the way down and doing all the things and getting with the right people is that my life has changed and I have a profound alteration to my reaction to that life now these days where I can't unweight, I can't, I cannot unsee the things that I've now seen through the spiritual lens.
It's like, it's impossible to unsee that if you are walking this path. But I called that guy up. I had about a year of, I had been sober for a year, nothing in AA and this guy about three and a half years sobriety. I didn't know this guy from anything, but guess what? Someone was talking to me. There weren't a lot of people that were talking to me or had things to say to me on the phone, but he called and he actually was interested in me.
He wanted to know about me and even to this day, I find it very difficult to comprehend how there are so many of us that when we go to some of these meetings, they ask you, do you have a sponsor? And if you have a sponsor, it's like, they treat you like you're a piece of, like you're yesterday's news and they move on. It is a profound gift and an incredible example of sacrifice when you say, how are you?
Let me get to know you. What's your story? What's your life like? I want to take an interest in you. That type of sacrifice, because it's obviously from the self at some point and not looking at it as such a transactional angle. I feel so much of our society sometimes looks at sponsoring and doing these things as numbers and transactions, but that guy was asking me about me and it seemed like he cared.
And that I think is an example of what Alcoholics Anonymous does best, that even if he didn't care, he made me feel like he cared. And that's something that I haven't lost. And sometimes I feel like it's the key to Alcoholics Anonymous, whether it's the step or tradition that we're trying to talk to someone about, it's the how do they make you feel? Because all those times you go to these meetings and you don't know what they said, but you remember how they made me feel.
And I'm still talking to you. There's these moments in this talk today and I'm thinking about, it's the moment when I chased that elusive feeling from the drink with that whiskey, and it's that moment where that guy was making me feel like he cared, which was the hook. And so I met with that guy and he became my first sponsor. And that was the first time after a meeting, we went to a Pete's Coffee and we read the big book.
I was willing to identify with Bill and the doctor's opinion. Sometimes it takes a little bit, people like me a little bit longer, but I was willing to say, yep, me too, yep, I can drink like that. That has happened to me. And that I am so grateful that it took what it took. And that man spent the time with me to help me identify and give me a safe place to feel like I could trust him. And so much of what I talk about with my sponsor these days is, the men that I sponsor and
[00:35:00]
just the people in general is that he's always texting me or saying something on the phone like earn their trust, earn their trust. You need to earn his trust. And sometimes I feel like I could always do a better job of that, but it's so important that everything I'm doing, not just in AA, but other places, I need to earn their trust. And that man helped me earn my trust. And I remember also, I told him I was going to meet him at a meeting one time and this is where the little blockages of self start breaking apart when I start taking good direction in Alex Anonymous, just by taking that direction, the self kind of like dissipates, it goes away, breaks down.
I was going to meet him at this meeting and I got this call from a friend, he said, you know what, Steph Curry's playing tonight, we got these tickets at the Warriors basketball game and it's the playoffs or finals and they're good, come. And I'm like, man, anyone in AA would understand if Steph Curry's playing, you go, you miss your meeting, you can miss your commitment, you get someone to cover that thing.
This is like a once in a year, once in a lifetime deal. And again, I don't know what came over me that day or that moment, this is one of those little moments that I just remember and don't understand why I remember it, but it won't go away. I knew at that moment, I told my sponsor, I was like, hey, I'm going to the Warriors game tonight, man. Like, blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay. And I just intuitively, like, this is why you can't teach anyone this stuff, it's got to come to them.
And AA, like something felt and I said to myself, something's pulling me to that commitment in that meeting. I knew that I was going to be somewhere. I feel like Steph Curry's not going to keep me sober. And I feel like, and I didn't know how to express it, but the common welfare of the people in the group that I was going to be around might suffer if I'm not there. They might think that my AA is optional, disposable, and I can't articulate like how that happened, but I just felt it.
I don't even know if I thought those words, but I felt it. And I went to that meeting that day and I experienced another example of sacrifice. Something that I had not previously known how to do was to put other people's interests and the betterment of others or the unity of the others in front of my own. I guess that comes like, if I'm able to start sacrificing the drink, I'm able to learn how to sacrifice myself for others.
Just like when I become part of these home groups, when I'm part of my home group, I learn how to sacrifice my interest for the betterment of the group and I start caring about the group existing, not about my place in that group. And then when we continue to move around and further down the totem pole in service, we start caring a little bit more about the districts that we're a part of and how that's going.
And then from the districts, we start sacrificing our life, our needs there, and we start thinking about the fellowship as a whole. And then we started thinking about Alcoholics Anonymous and that everything that I do, I am representing AA, like whether it's on a social media platform or how I dress when I go to a meeting or even in my workplace and someone has no idea I'm in AA or I'm a part of it, in the small chance that they find out or it becomes obvious that it would be a good thing to disclose that, I want to make Alcoholics Anonymous look like a good idea to someone that may never get here but needs to have an opinion of how we are.
And I don't know how it all happened with Steph Curry, but I think there is something intuitive inside all of us that once we get that God-centered other first mentality, everything starts falling. You can't unsee that. You can't unsee the spiritual way of life and the importance of sacrifice in our lives and staying not only members of Alcoholics Anonymous and staying sober for ourselves and making it look like a good idea to others.
And so things just happened to naturally occur for me and I feel like I got really lucky that I caught Alcoholics Anonymous in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. I didn't have a job, which was good, so I could go to more meetings than I needed to and I can read the big book a little more frequently than my time maybe today looks like that I can read it or I have to read it or like I did back then. I started taking commitments.
And I never really had a service commitment before. And I remember the first commitment I picked up, I made a commitment to this group that I was a part of, this kind of men's get together on Sunday once a month and kind of like share all your stories like, you know, the women aren't around, I'm listening, so you say all these things, right? And I remember being at that meeting and all I could do was when they asked, what kind of commitment can you make to this group for the next time?
I said, I'm going to get myself an AA commitment, like it's a big idea.
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Like all these people have been getting AA commitments, but it was a big idea for me to get an AA commitment. So I was getting an AA commitment. And I go to this meeting that I regularly go to, it's called Tuesday Beginners here in Mill Valley. And the secretary was asking for commitments, she stopped the meeting a little early to pick up commitments. And I just knew I was going to throw my hand up for the first thing because I had to think about it and analyze it.
I'd be like, that's not a perfect commitment for me. I need the perfect bang, like, I'm going to wait it out, right? So she says something, I don't know what he's doing, I just, again, I just throw my hand up. Those are those little moments, I can't really explain it, I just throw my hand up. And everyone like, I feel like, and this may be not true, but they all look back at me. It was quiet. Everyone looks at me as like, you just took, like, what did you just take?
And I'm like, they're like, do you want it? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's fine, whatever. And everyone claps. So I'm like, okay, cool, praise. That's great. I'm getting some claps. And I go to my friend, I'm like, hey, Jesse, like, what did I just volunteer for? I wasn't paying attention. He's like, oh, yeah, you're going to be the babysitter commitment coordinator for like one year. You know? And I'm just like, and that's like, you know, calling people ahead of time, you're going to miss half the meeting because you're going to do the babysitter coordinating and people fail and you're going to, oh, my God, was that like, not the best commitment for someone like me, like to take on.
And that was when I got my first resentment in Alcoholics Anonymous was when people weren't doing and showing up for their commitments, because I was now in charge for the commitment coordinator. And if you weren't doing it, I'm watching people in the meeting and I'm saying like, time for you to go and you're done. And I remember I had to like, and that's the first time I actually ever fired anyone, too.
We had a babysitter we hired and she wasn't doing her job and I had to learn how to, you know, let someone go in Alcoholics Anonymous and that made that easier later on. So like, that commitment was like, the worst thing and the best thing and like, I'm so happy with that commitment and I just started finding myself in all sorts of other areas in Alcoholics Anonymous. And I remember my motives still weren't pure yet, still trying to, I was still trying to get myself admitted to this profession.
And I remember when the PI CPC commitments, I first heard about those like, oh, people could go into high school and speak to high school students. Man, wouldn't the state agency like, just take pity on me if they knew I was going out in public and talking about my experience in Alcoholics Anonymous and helping youth? Like, wouldn't that be like, terrible for like, someone's reputation in my profession?
They would just feel so bad they would admit you anyway. So very much like the babysitter commitment, I got all in on PI CPC and I did not, like Clancy says, you don't have to have a good motive to take a good action. And I was taking all these good actions with terrible motives. And what happened was I was helping people in Alcoholics Anonymous and young people and teachers and I was going to law schools and hospitals and like, just, I was bringing Alcoholics Anonymous and learning the traditions in a very thoughtful, kind, tradition loving way.
And through that, I started continuing to fall in love with Alcoholics Anonymous. I mean, I've got so far deep into PI and babysitting and greeting and secretarian just took me to a different level where I'm just trying to get the best speakers because I want to make sure the message is so good that the shares are good because the shares have been terrible. So like, you know, the bad motives because I always cared so much about having the right message.
Like, my experience in AA is just like, profoundly like, humorable to me on how I started to love service because I wanted like, everyone to do a better job at their job. So like, maybe there's Al-Anon or something for me in the future, like without alcoholics, but like, that was something, no offense to any of the Al-Anons, but like, you know, controlling the alcoholics, you know, was something that like, I took very seriously.
And so when it came time for me to reapply for this profession that I was in, I think humility or something came over me and whether it was we agnostics or having that notion that I didn't have a moral compass, but deep down in every man, woman and child was that fundamental idea. I think I found that fundamental idea that had been covered up by the pomp and prestige and calamity that, you know, page 55 for all you book quoters talks about, where we were like uncovering and getting rid of all that like, gunk that was on that moral compass, that inner light.
When I got so far into Alcoholics Anonymous, I believed so much that like, God is or He isn't, that I just needed a sign. If you want me in this profession, great. If you don't want me in the profession, great. Let's move on. My commitment to AA is not going to change. I have this life that I've built up for myself now. I have a, Built Up for Myself Now. I have a girl in AA. I have a sponsor. I'm a part of a fellowship of men that I love. I'm making amends. I'm showing up for my family. I'm learning about sacrifice,
[00:45:02]
taking commitments. I'm now that guy that my friends call that say, hey, I've got this going on. We talk about it. It's just like coming from a guy that was like getting paid by his mom to leave the house because it was so depressing and that you had this profession and debt and these arrests. The miracle had already happened. The profession didn't matter anymore. That is secondary. And I am still in disbelief that Alcoholics Anonymous provided the structure, the foundational structure and the people to make that happen for a guy like me. It's still a gift that you can't repay, like an unearned gift, which is like we commonly call grace, the grace that was provided for me from Bill and Bob getting together and 70 some odd folks that were just kind of like who knows what they were doing. The blind were leading the blind at that time. And when they asked me to talk about my rehabilitative acts, the list of things that I had done made me uncomfortable to even tell them because I had felt that type of humility around that like I am doing so much that I don't even want to tell you all the good things. I was quick to tell you the four hours of community service I did at the beach and the soup kitchen. I was not quick to tell you about the thousands of whatever hours of service that was integral and important to my life and my lifestyle. Like I didn't want to share that. To me that didn't look like service, that looked like a way of life, the AA way of life. And I don't want to share, I didn't want to like pimp out the AA way of life because that would make it look good so I could get what I wanted. But you know what, if God thought I should be in this profession to be of maximum service, I was going to do it. I was getting ready to start a family and you know, I just went forward. And I remember that meeting and I was honest about everything. I even, I was so honest with them this time that I gave them so many more reasons to deny me admission. Like I copped to things that I had no reason to cop to in that letter because like ultimately and like it is a life and death errand and if I can't be honest and if my motive is in here is to try to narrate and make you think a particular way, I'm already losing my footing. Like it would be a matter of time till that profession would be gone again and everything that I've established, that foundation would be gone.
And you know, I got into that meeting again with them. It was a different group of investigators and you know, the meeting was like 10, 15 minutes and it was just basically like, how do you stay sober today? You know, what do you do? And I'm like, it's not that easy. How much time do you have me to tell you about the 12 steps and where Bill and Bob came from and what the purpose is? Like, you know, like I thought to myself, how could I be helpful to this institution so that when they have someone that is like me that comes through, that person like me doesn't fall through the cracks and they can say, we know about alcoholism. We recommend you go to Alcoholics Anonymous. Like trying to be helpful to the people that were going to judge me by putting myself up for potentially being dismissed by how honest I was, that was a level of sacrifice on its head turned around 180 degrees that I couldn't really imagine ever doing. Where I was putting my chances of a profession at risk, because I wanted to be more helpful to these people judging others coming through, like the CPC aspect of this thing, so they could better help get people to Alcoholics Anonymous and save their life. And like, that is not lost on me today about what the needs are of this society and what we're doing. And so I want to make sure that my wife, when she asked me, did you tell them you got admitted? Because so much of the time that like, sometimes when I talk and I share, I focus on the change, not on the outcomes of being admitted to the agency and getting the license. Like, you know, for a guy that usually it takes three years to do something in my position, it took me 10 to get this done. And like, it's that type of stuff that like, it doesn't even matter that I got admitted. It doesn't even matter what profession I'm in or what the outcomes were, it's mattering what the actions that you're taking, and you let everything else fall into place, you know. And continuing to like, you know, follow Alcoholics Anonymous and bring that into my life is what saved my life and has given me purpose. That was, I don't know, seven years ago, six years ago. A lot of life has occurred. And like, for me, you know, we have a newborn, my wife is in Alcoholics Anonymous, she's a member, she's got a couple months more than me. So if we ever speak, I guess I go first. I mean, got less time. You know, we're starting a new book study tonight. This is our third week, we're going to go there in an hour. We, you know, we've been home a lot for the past year and a half, we've moved around, we haven't really had, we've had a home group, but we have, we've been craving some fellowship in a way that we just haven't found. And so what we're doing is we're creating our own book study. And we've got a few people, it's off the books,
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I'm going to make sure I get coffee for people, I've rented the space out. It's not, you know, we're inviting some people just to get around and read. And we're going to talk a little bit about Alcoholics Anonymous. And I think there's probably a new person or two that we've talked to that might be coming tonight that doesn't really know about Alcoholics Anonymous. And it's again, it's not about what it says in the schedule. It's not about like, any of that. It's about how we make you feel before and after that meeting and when you're in there. And, you know, that's where my attention is tonight. And I'm so excited to do that. Like, I can't tell you how excited I am to go and try to start something and help others and add a service that's probably needed. And my wife and I went through it a couple years back and we had some time apart.
You know, there's a lack of trust in our relationship and there was an opportunity. There was an opportunity where most people would say, oh, you know, it's time for you guys to split that makes rational sense. Like in the mind, it makes sense. She did this, you did this, you guys aren't meant to be, it makes sense not to do it. But you know what, the spiritual life does not make sense. It does not make rational sense. And I remember when I was engaging in some prayer and seeking counsel from people that were close to me, I knew if my head and my heart weren't aligned, I couldn't make an action happen. It just, I just couldn't. And the way I work today is I'm listening to my head, but I'm also following my heart. And my heart says one thing and my head says another, the action is inaction. And so it's been that inaction that stopped me from taking that action. Thanks to Alcoholics Anonymous that we're still together. We're married and we have this little baby, this little recovery baby that's been just a beautiful and very tiring experience right now. But I am so grateful for all that that's happening. And we get to bring a little bit of AA into his life. And so I love Alcoholics Anonymous. I wish I could do more for it right now. But as my sponsor says, and so many other people say, there are seasons to this thing.
I asked my sponsor like, hey, when can I get back into general service? When can I get back to the area? I've got things to talk about. We got the finances are upside down. I've got motions to make and things to do. And he says to me, he says to me, you can go back to service when your son's in college. And I said, are you serious? Like, I didn't say it like that, but like, I was like, really? He's like, yeah. Because a much bigger demonstration of these principles lies in our home's occupations and affairs. And so what I've come to learn from Alcoholics Anonymous is not just about the service and the babysitting and the motions and things that we're doing. It's about how I'm showing up at home with my family in my workplace to take those principles with me. And so it's definitely been a experience and understanding that, unsure what my purpose is, but being a demonstration of a functioning member of society and a good husband and being able to tell my sponsor when he asked me, if I asked Kate how you were doing, what she would say, making sure that I have a good answer for him when he says that, keeps me on this path and brings the AA, most importantly, into our homes. And I'm really appreciative of being here tonight.
It's been so fun to kind of walk the AA path. It was my turn to talk. It's not my favorite service to do, but I have felt the magic of Alcoholics Anonymous in the room here with you tonight. Even though you're in Alabama, I am so fired up and excited to be a part of this great fellowship with you all. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us tonight where you never know what you're going to get. You'll just have to keep coming back. We surely hope to see you here next Thursday. Our special guest is Dede Kaye from White Mountain, New Hampshire. If you like this meeting, please do as Bill Wilson always said, pass it on. You can help others right from your phone or computer and tell them about the special meeting. Everyone is invited to hang out with us afterwards in the meeting, after the meeting, the porch. Andrew, do you have any closing comments and would you please lead us out with a reading or prayer of your choice?
Yeah, let's take a moment of silence to think about those who haven't found us yet and who are suffering and hope they make it here and we'll do the we version of the serenity prayer. God, grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change,
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the courage to change the things we can, and the wisdom to know the difference. All right, everyone could unmute. Thank you, Andrew. Well done. Thank you. Well done. Good to be here. Come back.