Transcript

[00:00.3 – 00:01.6] Well, you guys are awfully quiet. [00:01.6 – 00:08.8] And I'm gonna tell you what my name is. [00:08.8 – 00:12.3] My name is Sybil Corwin, and I'm an alcoholic. [00:12.3 – 00:15.1] Hi, Sybil. [00:15.1 – 00:16.2] And what is today? [00:16.2 – 00:17.1] March the eleventh? [00:17.1 – 00:19.2] Twelfth. [00:19.2 – 00:19.3] Twelfth. [00:19.3 – 00:20.6] Oh, I signed the b-book, uh… [00:20.6 – 00:22.0] everybody signed it March the eleventh. [00:22.0 – 00:23.1] Well, that's par for the course. [00:23.1 – 00:23.8] I did, too. [00:23.8 – 00:25.6] So we'll have to correct that. [00:25.6 – 00:31.1] But at any rate, I wanted to tell you all that this is not a regular AA meeting. [00:31.1 – 00:33.5] Now, you couldn't tell that just by looking at you. [00:33.5 – 00:35.0] But it isn't. [00:35.0 – 00:42.3] What it is, it's a historical, inspirational happening or something like that. [00:42.3 – 00:44.9] But I know members. [00:44.9 – 00:47.1] I know me, so then I know you. [00:47.1 – 00:57.1] And I know that I better start it like an AA meeting and, and, and get us comfortable and get over that, "Hey, oh my, my, my," thing that I've been going [00:57.1 – 00:59.0] through for about the last three days. [00:59.0 – 01:08.3] Because it was Tuesday evening before I knew that we'd be here, and it was Wednesday at ten o'clock in the morning before I knew we even had a hall. [01:08.3 – 01:12.8] And I do thank you for coming, and I know we'll be amply rewarded. [01:12.8 – 01:20.8] Now, I wonder if I could ask you to do this, to say the Serenity Prayer with me. [01:20.8 – 01:28.4] God- God- Grant me the serenity- To accept the things I cannot change. [01:28.4 – 01:34.6] The courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. [01:34.6 – 01:44.8] Now, before I ask to have our steps read, which also makes us very comfortable here and almost all over [01:44.8 – 01:55.0] the world now, I think it began here, though, in Southern California, reading the fifth chapter because they couldn't find any place in the book that told them how to lead a meeting. [01:55.0 – 02:05.1] And those few guys that were around said, "Well, let's just turn to where it says how it works, and it surely will tell us what to do." And so they read it to [02:05.1 – 02:06.2] each other. [02:06.2 – 02:09.8] Yeah. [02:09.8 – 02:12.5] And so that's what they did. [02:12.5 – 02:17.6] They simply read the fifth chapter to each other then, as we do now. [02:17.6 – 02:20.9] But I'm not gonna have that done until I find out a few things. [02:20.9 – 02:25.4] First of all, I wanna know if there are any alcoholics in the house. [02:25.4 – 02:28.2] Great. [02:28.2 – 02:31.1] She's one. [02:31.1 – 02:31.8] All right. [02:31.8 – 02:33.1] So am I. [02:33.1 – 02:37.8] Now, do we have any new people sober less than thirty days? [02:37.8 – 02:41.4] Whoa, two. [02:41.4 – 02:51.5] Now, do we have any people here [02:51.5 – 02:54.3] sober from there on up to six months? [02:54.3 – 03:04.3] How about that first year? [03:04.3 – 03:07.5] The big milestone to see if we're gonna do it. [03:07.5 – 03:10.7] Five years? [03:10.7 – 03:14.8] Ten. [03:14.8 – 03:16.9] Ten years? [03:16.9 – 03:21.9] Fifteen. [03:21.9 – 03:26.2] Twenty. [03:26.2 – 03:28.7] There's one for fifteen. [03:28.7 – 03:29.5] Let's hear it for twenty. [03:29.5 – 03:32.4] Twenty-five. [03:32.4 – 03:38.9] And thirty. [03:38.9 – 03:47.3] And thirty-five. [03:47.3 – 03:52.4] They're too old to put up their hands. [03:52.4 – 03:53.5] Too old to put up your hands. [03:53.5 – 03:54.0] All right. [03:54.0 – 03:58.5] Thirty-six. [03:58.5 – 04:03.4] And thirty-seven. [04:03.4 – 04:11.3] In two weeks. [04:11.3 – 04:13.8] We cheated just that much, but we're March babies. [04:13.8 – 04:15.5] Thank God. [04:15.5 – 04:17.5] I'm glad of that. [04:17.5 – 04:26.9] Now, before I say anything else, I have my big red book here today that Jimmy Burwell and Rosa gave me. [04:26.9 – 04:28.8] Was this the original manuscript? [04:28.8 – 04:30.9] That's the original manuscript. [04:30.9 – 04:32.4] Can I have it, Cliff? [04:32.4 – 04:33.6] Yes. [04:33.6 – 04:39.6] Well, that's one of the club's books that's been doing the round. [04:39.6 – 04:41.9] I wonder what page. [04:41.9 – 04:43.6] The yellow marker. [04:43.6 – 04:44.7] Oh, the yellow marker. [04:44.7 – 04:54.0] Now, I'm gonna show you how it might have been, and then I'm going to have Ruth's daughter, Laurie, who is a member of AA, show you how it came out finally. [04:54.0 – 05:04.3] "Rarely have we seen a person fail who's thoroughly followed our directions." "Those who do not recover are people who cannot [05:04.3 – 05:07.1] or will not completely give themselves to the simple program. [05:07.1 – 05:12.3] They're usually men and wimey– women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. [05:12.3 – 05:13.7] There are such unfortunates. [05:13.7 – 05:15.6] They're not at fault. [05:15.6 – 05:17.7] They seem to have been born that way. [05:17.7 – 05:24.0] They're naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of life, a way of life, which demands rigorous honesty. [05:24.0 – 05:26.2] Their chances are less than average. [05:26.2 – 05:34.2] There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest. [05:34.2 – 05:38.9] Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we're like now. [05:38.9 – 05:48.9] If you decide you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it, then you're ready to follow directions." Now, at some of these, you may balk. [05:48.9 – 05:51.2] You may think you can find an easier, softer way. [05:51.2 – 05:53.4] We doubt, we doubt if you can. [05:53.4 – 06:01.5] With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. [06:01.5 – 06:07.8] Some of us have tried to hold onto our old ideas, and the result was nil until we let go absolutely. [06:07.8 – 06:11.9] Remember, you're dealing with alcohol: cunning, baffling, and powerful. [06:11.9 – 06:13.9] Without help, it's too much for you. [06:13.9 – 06:16.7] But there is One who has all power. [06:16.7 – 06:17.8] That One is God. [06:17.8 – 06:20.7] You must find Him now. [06:20.7 – 06:24.1] Half measures will avail you nothing. [06:24.1 – 06:29.6] You stand at the turning point, so throw yourself under His protection and care with complete abandon. [06:29.6 – 06:33.1] Now we think you can take it. [06:33.1 – 06:43.8] Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as your program of recovery: admitted we were powerless over alcohol, and our lives had become unmanageable. [06:43.8 – 06:47.5] To believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. [06:47.5 – 06:53.5] Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care and direction of God as we understood Him. [06:53.5 – 06:57.1] Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. [06:57.1 – 07:02.5] Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. [07:02.5 – 07:07.0] Were entirely willing that God remove all these defects of character. [07:07.0 – 07:15.5] Humbly, on our knees- -asked Him to remove our shortcomings, holding nothing back. [07:15.5 – 07:21.5] Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make complete amends to them all. [07:21.5 – 07:27.1] Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. [07:27.1 – 07:31.6] Continued to take personal inventory, and when wrong, promptly admitted it. [07:31.6 – 07:38.7] Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our contact with God, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. [07:38.7 – 07:49.0] Having had a spiritual experience as a result of this course of action, we tried to carry this message to others- [07:49.0 – 07:50.2] -especially alcoholics. [07:50.2 – 07:54.7] And to practice these principles in all our affairs. [07:54.7 – 07:58.3] You may say, "Well, what an order. [07:58.3 – 08:00.5] I can't go through with it." Don't be discouraged. [08:00.5 – 08:04.5] No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. [08:04.5 – 08:05.5] We're not saints. [08:05.5 – 08:09.1] The point is, we're willing to grow along spiritual lines. [08:09.1 – 08:11.5] The principles we have set down are guides to progress. [08:11.5 – 08:15.3] We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection. [08:15.3 – 08:25.3] Now, this chapter to the agnostic and our personal adventures before and after are designed to sell you three pertinent ideas: that [08:25.3 – 08:28.9] you are an alcoholic, and you cannot manage your own life. [08:28.9 – 08:35.7] That probably no human power can relieve your alcoholism, but God can and will. [08:35.7 – 08:45.1] Now, if you're not convinced on these vital issues, you ought to reread this book or throw it away. [08:45.1 – 09:00.5] That's [09:00.5 – 09:09.6] the way it was, and, and Laurie will, uh, uh, will tell you, will read the portion out of the Big Red Book that finally reached California and got us here today. [09:09.6 – 09:11.2] Laurie is Ruth's daughter. [09:11.2 – 09:13.9] So we're a couple of years or something like that. [09:13.9 – 09:16.1] A year and a half, that's what it was. [09:16.1 – 09:21.2] Thank you. [09:21.2 – 09:23.4] My name is Laurie, and I'm an alcoholic. [09:23.4 – 09:25.8] Hi, Laurie. [09:25.8 – 09:25.8] Hi. [09:25.8 – 09:29.1] Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. [09:29.1 – 09:34.5] Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program. [09:34.5 – 09:39.0] Usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. [09:39.0 – 09:40.9] There are such unfortunates. [09:40.9 – 09:42.1] They are not at fault. [09:42.1 – 09:43.7] They seem to have been born that way. [09:43.7 – 09:49.2] They're naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. [09:49.2 – 09:51.6] Their chances are less than average. [09:51.6 – 09:57.9] There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest. [09:57.9 – 10:04.1] Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. [10:04.1 – 10:10.5] If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it, then you are ready to take certain steps. [10:10.5 – 10:12.9] At some of these, we balked. [10:12.9 – 10:15.9] We thought we could find an easier, softer way, but we could not. [10:15.9 – 10:21.5] With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. [10:21.5 – 10:26.8] Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas, and the result was nil until we let go com- absolutely. [10:26.8 – 10:30.7] Remember that we deal with alcohol: cunning, baffling, powerful. [10:30.7 – 10:32.8] Without help, it is too much for us. [10:32.8 – 10:35.1] But there is One who has all power. [10:35.1 – 10:35.9] That One is God. [10:35.9 – 10:37.7] May you find Him now. [10:37.7 – 10:39.6] Half measures availed us nothing. [10:39.6 – 10:41.1] We stood at the turning point. [10:41.1 – 10:44.2] We asked His protection and care with complete abandon. [10:44.2 – 10:47.9] Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery. [10:47.9 – 10:53.3] One: we admitted we were powerless over alcohol, and that our lives had become unmanageable. [10:53.3 – 10:58.2] Two: came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. [10:58.2 – 11:04.1] Three: made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. [11:04.1 – 11:09.0] Four: made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. [11:09.0 – 11:14.4] Five: admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. [11:14.4 – 11:18.2] Six: were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. [11:18.2 – 11:22.3] Seven: humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings. [11:22.3 – 11:27.4] Eight: made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all. [11:27.4 – 11:33.9] Nine: made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. [11:33.9 – 11:39.7] Ten: continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it. [11:39.7 – 11:48.8] Eleven: sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. [11:48.8 – 11:58.1] Twelve: having had a spiritual experience as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs. [11:58.1 – 12:00.5] Many of us exclaimed, "What an order. [12:00.5 – 12:03.3] I can't go through with it." Do not be discouraged. [12:03.3 – 12:08.5] No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. [12:08.5 – 12:09.3] We are not saints. [12:09.3 – 12:13.8] The point is that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. [12:13.8 – 12:16.4] The principles we have set down are guides to progress. [12:16.4 – 12:20.5] We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection. [12:20.5 – 12:31.5] Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas: A, that we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives. [12:31.5 – 12:35.3] B, that probably no human power could have re- relieved our alcoholism. [12:35.3 – 12:38.6] C, that God could and would if sought. [12:38.6 – 12:46.8] We thank you very much, Laurie. [12:46.8 – 12:57.0] You know, when I was a little girl, my favorite candy was black gumdrop, [12:57.0 – 12:58.9] and I never could get enough of them. [12:58.9 – 13:07.3] But I had a thing about when I did get a, a sack full of gumdrops, if there were any black ones in it, I would save them for my two brothers. [13:07.3 – 13:13.4] One of them, who turned out to be an alcoholic, and, and the good brother who never did have a drink, still living in Dallas. [13:13.4 – 13:16.9] The other one came into AA shortly after I did the following week. [13:16.9 – 13:20.5] But they were little kids, and I was much smaller than they. [13:20.5 – 13:23.7] And so I'd take the sack of gumdrops home, and I'd give them the black ones. [13:23.7 – 13:26.4] I'd cut them in two, and we'd all have a taste. [13:26.4 – 13:32.3] And I never could get enough black gumdrops until Evelyn one day bought me a big box of black gumdrops. [13:32.3 – 13:34.6] And, and I felt guilty. [13:34.6 – 13:40.1] I put them in my desk drawer at the central office, and I kept them because I, I didn't wanna eat them all unless I shared them with somebody. [13:40.1 – 13:47.5] And so that's the way I felt today when at long last, Ruth Hock Cristilla came out here from Ohio. [13:47.5 – 13:50.4] Uh, as I told you, I only knew it. [13:50.4 – 13:52.0] I had been expecting her for a while. [13:52.0 – 13:55.4] She had a special reason for coming out because Laurie was gonna have a baby. [13:55.4 – 13:58.7] I mean, the, the, the real live, uh, kitten kind, you know? [13:58.7 – 14:04.7] And her, her trip was delayed once because of bad weather, and I knew I had to wait a little longer. [14:04.7 – 14:13.5] And then I got permission to get in touch with you today so that I could share with you some of the black gumdrops that I, I knew I couldn't hoard them all to myself. [14:13.5 – 14:21.9] Because she's going to tell us how it was back there in New York, in the office, as AA was being born. [14:21.9 – 14:26.5] She was the girl that helped Bill answer our call for help. [14:26.5 – 14:30.2] When that Saturday Evening Post article came out, in particular, it got me. [14:30.2 – 14:34.1] Thirty-seven years ago today, I wrote my letter for help. [14:34.1 – 14:37.3] I got sober on the twenty-third of March this year. [14:37.3 – 14:40.3] And she wrote that letter, signed it R. [14:40.3 – 14:40.9] Hock. [14:40.9 – 14:47.1] And Mark Joseph was telling me on the phone, Al, that he– that you thought for years that it was Robert Hock. [14:47.1 – 14:47.9] Hock. [14:47.9 – 14:49.1] We didn't know it was a girl. [14:49.1 – 14:52.2] We thought there was a man back there answering all our letters. [14:52.2 – 15:02.2] And so it was that the little office, uh, which was there for another purpose, a business purpose, when Ruth was hired, it became her lot to answer [15:02.2 – 15:09.7] all of the letters from the Saturday Evening Post and those few calls that they got before that and all the calls afterward for a very long time. [15:09.7 – 15:16.0] And I can't tell you how grateful I am that she's here today to share her experiences with us. [15:16.0 – 15:19.4] Now, I don't know how long she'll talk, and I don't care. [15:19.4 – 15:29.4] But when she gets tired of talking, we may have time for a few questions and answers, which we would appreciate your, your holding to some little tidbit of the early history that you would like to know [15:29.4 – 15:32.6] about, the early history of AA, and that's about it. [15:32.6 – 15:36.0] And I have no idea, and I hope she'll talk forever. [15:36.0 – 15:39.2] But if she doesn't, we'll have time for a few questions. [15:39.2 – 15:44.1] And then, Ruth, when they ask their questions from out there, if you would repeat it back to them. [15:44.1 – 15:46.4] But now you talk first. [15:46.4 – 15:56.5] When you repeat it back to them so that Joe can pick it up here on the mic, so that we can all have a tape because he has order blanks for anybody who wants to [15:56.5 – 16:00.4] save it and keep it and take it home. [16:00.4 – 16:03.8] He'll make tapes for us, and we can order them from Joe after the meeting. [16:03.8 – 16:10.2] And so, without further ado, I'm going to call on Ruth Hock Cristilla. [16:10.2 – 16:24.2] If [16:24.2 – 16:26.6] you can't hear me, uh, give me a few minutes. [16:26.6 – 16:29.6] This is a very, very moving experience for me, too. [16:29.6 – 16:31.7] It's been a long time. [16:31.7 – 16:38.4] I've been disassociated from, um, active participation with AA for a long, long time. [16:38.4 – 16:41.9] I, uh, haven't even been in touch with Sybil very long. [16:41.9 – 16:45.9] I, uh, before I start, and I forget it, may I have the, uh… [16:45.9 – 16:48.2] It's been a long– no, the other one. [16:48.2 – 16:51.2] It's been a long time since I even thought of that. [16:51.2 – 16:53.8] Thank you very much. [16:53.8 – 16:56.8] And, uh, I really, uh, I'm not a speaker. [16:56.8 – 16:58.4] I have never been a public speaker. [16:58.4 – 17:02.9] I've always been fine behind a typewriter and pretty good on a one-to-one basis. [17:02.9 – 17:06.5] But this kind of thing I've never been very successful at. [17:06.5 – 17:13.3] I, uh, and I w– I, I'd like to start where, where we left off with this, uh, if I may. [17:13.3 – 17:14.8] I'm do– I'm going to do this backwards. [17:14.8 – 17:15.5] Sybil, does it matter? [17:15.5 – 17:18.2] Uh, I have forgotten. [17:18.2 – 17:19.4] I really had forgotten. [17:19.4 – 17:21.4] And, uh, my daughter is laughing. [17:21.4 – 17:28.4] She said, "Did you really do it that way at first?" And I had forgotten, but we certainly, most certainly did. [17:28.4 – 17:36.6] I think, um, we, uh, Hank Parkhurst, who's also very– one of the very early members, was a, uh, very forceful type of man. [17:36.6 – 17:45.8] And I think most of the, uh, s- the selling a-a-at-atmosphere of, of that's, those statements really came from him. [17:45.8 – 17:52.6] And, uh, after, after it was typed at least, you know, fifty times, I suppose, um, we'd- [17:52.8 – 18:03.0] Somewhere it began to seep into Bill's head that really most people didn't like this very much, including himself, because none of us like to have somebody say, "You must do this." [18:03.0 – 18:07.5] And that– not only the fore part of this, but all the steps were originally written. [18:07.5 – 18:09.3] You must accept. [18:09.3 – 18:12.5] You must do this, and you must do that. [18:12.5 – 18:13.9] None of it was we. [18:13.9 – 18:24.2] And it was first caught in the steps that, uh, they, they better do something about this because not many people were going to, uh, feel that way about it on the, on a you must basis. [18:24.2 – 18:29.0] Sybil, I want to first, uh, thank you for the beautiful corsage. [18:29.0 – 18:29.9] It really is lovely. [18:29.9 – 18:30.4] Thank you. [18:30.4 – 18:34.3] And, uh, we have been doing some talking. [18:34.3 – 18:41.9] I have only met Matt and Marlene and Bob today, and, but I already feel like old times, and I always immediately did with Sybil. [18:41.9 – 18:49.9] And they seem to think that most of you would be interested in how I first got into this thing, uh, since I'm not an alcoholic. [18:49.9 – 18:55.5] Uh, I, uh, Bill, and, uh, everybody in those days was dead broke. [18:55.5 – 19:05.4] No, no alcoholic had two cents, except some friend had just lent them a dollar or somebody had made a sale, and everybody shared whatever they had. [19:05.4 – 19:11.8] And, uh, in-including Bill Wilson's home, mostly, where most of the alcoholics in those days were dried out. [19:11.8 – 19:12.7] It was the only way. [19:12.7 – 19:16.5] Nobody wanted to help sober anybody up or anything else. [19:16.5 – 19:17.8] So we all did it occasionally. [19:17.8 – 19:25.9] Sat up with somebody and dosed out a teaspoon of liquor here, and, and, uh, in those days, we didn't know how harmful pills might be. [19:25.9 – 19:33.2] We'd just a little sleeping pill here and whatever was, whatever we had and whatever we could do with lots and lots of coffee and, and sympathy. [19:33.2 – 19:43.6] I, uh– But Bill and, uh, Hank Parkers had gotten together to start a little business, which they decided, I thought, appropriately, honored dealers. [19:43.6 – 19:50.7] And it was an effort to, um, buy carload lots of tires or cases of oil or that type of thing. [19:50.7 – 19:58.6] And they had canvassed a lot of service stations, and, uh, in order to, uh, try to get enough orders to buy a, a carload lot of something. [19:58.6 – 20:06.9] And then the profits were split between, supposedly, between Hank and Parkers and my salary and the, the service station owners. [20:06.9 – 20:16.9] But unfortunately, Bill and, uh, Bill particularly, was much too busy to go out selling, uh, oil and windshield wipers and [20:16.9 – 20:23.2] tires and, and that sort of thing because he, uh, he had too many people to talk to, and so did Hank. [20:23.2 – 20:29.1] Hank loved it as much as Bill did, but Hank was a salesman type, and he did go out and spend his time more. [20:29.1 – 20:39.0] But, uh, here I was in a, quite a nice– Both Bill and Hank were used to big business and office suites and, uh, you know, high, high-priced secretaries. [20:39.0 – 20:41.7] I did get fifteen dollars to start with at that time. [20:41.7 – 20:43.4] But I was a good one. [20:43.4 – 20:53.1] But in any event, I did have an outer office, and they had two desks on a large inner office, and it– But very little business came in that way. [20:53.1 – 20:55.6] The telephone was quite active, and I was good at that. [20:55.6 – 21:05.9] But pretty soon, the first one I was really aware of was, uh, quite a nice-looking gentleman in a bowler hat and a beautiful black overcoat, reeling, desperately [21:05.9 – 21:07.3] reeling up the stairs. [21:07.3 – 21:08.3] We had no elevator. [21:08.3 – 21:11.0] This was in Newark, New Jersey, not in New York City. [21:11.0 – 21:12.0] This was way back when. [21:12.0 – 21:20.5] And, uh, he wanted to see Bill Wilson, and I insisted on knowing why and what his business was, and I thought that's what secretaries always did. [21:20.5 – 21:24.0] And, uh, he refused to give me any kind of a name. [21:24.0 – 21:26.2] He had to see Bill Wilson. [21:26.2 – 21:26.7] I said, "Mr. [21:26.7 – 21:29.0] Wilson's busy," and it didn't get me anywhere anyway. [21:29.0 – 21:36.8] But Bill finally heard us out there and came out and roared, "Hello, Bob, and how are you today? [21:36.8 – 21:40.1] Are we ever glad to see you," and hauled him into the office. [21:40.1 – 21:44.5] And at this time, I was not a bit familiar with alcoholism in any form. [21:44.5 – 21:51.2] And now, as I look back, I had a grandfather and so on, but I, at this point, was not allowed to know that. [21:51.2 – 21:58.3] But anyway, they were in there a, a long time, laughing their heads off, and I couldn't understand that. [21:58.3 – 22:06.7] He was this poor fella under the– really in bad shape with liquor, and they were thinking it was funny. [22:06.7 – 22:12.9] And he was telling him how he was afraid he'd to go down the stairs alone because he might fall down, and that amused Bill. [22:12.9 – 22:17.0] That, because, you know, the, the office door was open. [22:17.0 – 22:18.1] There was no pretense. [22:18.1 – 22:24.2] And the first thing I know, they were, Hank, and this man, uh, Bob, and Bill were all kneeling around the desk and praying. [22:24.2 – 22:28.0] And I desperately didn't know whether I was going to– I really didn't. [22:28.0 – 22:29.9] It really worried me whether I ought to stay or not. [22:29.9 – 22:37.1] Well, this is, this is I, I was twenty-five, but I didn't think my father would approve at all. [22:37.1 – 22:38.1] Really didn't. [22:38.1 – 22:48.3] But I slowly– And that is how I learned about alcoholism by these, um, in those days, men, and they were all very desperate. [22:48.3 – 22:49.7] They were not young. [22:49.7 – 22:58.5] They were, outside of the first one that came in, nobody was well-dressed, and, and, uh, they were distraught and anxious and usually very older. [22:58.5 – 22:59.0] Very. [22:59.0 – 23:09.3] But I, uh, slowly, I– Bill began to mean a great deal, a great deal to me, and I was press– impressed by Hank Parker's abilities [23:09.3 – 23:18.9] and, uh, what they were trying to do gradually filtered somewhere, filtered in, and I– You couldn't have paid me to leave within a few months. [23:18.9 – 23:22.0] Now, Bill, uh, this is what was happening. [23:22.0 – 23:27.1] The honored dealers slowly went bankrupt, and we were getting more and more people dropping in or phoning. [23:27.1 – 23:34.2] And Bill had even– You– All, any of you who are lucky enough to know Bill, he, uh, he was a humble man. [23:34.2 – 23:39.7] He, he was, uh, um, not a wise man in his own terms. [23:39.7 – 23:46.9] He was loving, he was talented, but basically very human, very human man. [23:46.9 – 23:49.2] And he sought, always sought for wisdom. [23:49.2 – 23:52.9] He studied and thought, and he searched the minds and souls of people. [23:52.9 – 23:56.3] All the while, he was pouring out this tremendous love. [23:56.3 – 23:59.6] And so therefore, bankruptcy was inevitable. [23:59.6 – 24:09.7] The business simply couldn't, couldn't go on that basis, and we were dependent on– At this point, my father also got very interested, and he– I had [24:09.7 – 24:10.2] a little boy. [24:10.2 – 24:20.2] I'd just gone through a disastrous marriage, and Hank and, and Bill, um, put me back together by giving me this opportunity and, and realizing my problems at [24:20.2 – 24:20.6] the time. [24:20.6 – 24:30.7] Uh, so that none of us, we were all enmeshed in this, uh, attempt to help, and, uh, Lois was so deeply in it, of course, [24:30.7 – 24:32.5] as, as everyone was at that time. [24:32.5 – 24:36.7] Now, Bill was sober just about one year at the time when I started. [24:36.7 – 24:39.1] He had, uh, been to Akron. [24:39.1 – 24:41.5] He had met Doc, and, and this had developed out there. [24:41.5 – 24:49.9] And this, of course, was the nucleus of, of the strength, the whole foundation of what has happened ever since. [24:49.9 – 24:58.9] But we finally gave up trying to pretend it was a business, and we counted on the help of, uh, just to run the office. [24:58.9 – 25:01.4] I was without salary, so I brought my father in. [25:01.4 – 25:07.6] He agreed to support myself and my son, and, uh, so that I could work with this group and with this whole thing. [25:07.6 – 25:13.4] And, uh, Hank Parkers then got all, uh, agog. [25:13.4 – 25:19.5] At, at this time, Bill used to claim that we had 100, uh, al-alcoholic members. [25:19.5 – 25:21.8] There were 100 in this, uh, AA group. [25:21.8 – 25:25.6] And, uh, I, I was, uh, I'm, I'm German. [25:25.6 – 25:28.2] I have a German background, and I'm very factual. [25:28.2 – 25:30.2] Everything had– two and two is always four. [25:30.2 – 25:32.6] There's no– nothing that's gonna go wrong with that. [25:32.6 – 25:42.1] And Bill would say lovingly and broadly, "We now have 100 members." And I'd be sitting there, "Ninety-seven." You know? [25:42.1 – 25:46.9] Uh, and so that he always said, "Oh, come on. [25:46.9 – 25:51.6] That– Don't spoil my stories." And, um, I was always trying to do exactly that. [25:51.6 – 25:59.0] The Dutch came be partly because of my German background, and that both he and Hank Parker used to say, "Ask the Duchess." I don't know. [25:59.0 – 26:02.3] And so it, it, it came down to being Dutch. [26:02.3 – 26:12.4] But, uh, we, uh, began to get, um, as, uh, Sibyl has been saying, questions about– I must say this again, but the reason [26:12.4 – 26:15.6] I began to answer the mail was Bill hated to dictate. [26:15.6 – 26:16.8] He really did. [26:16.8 – 26:22.2] This whole, this whole manuscript was done with Bill standing behind me while I typed. [26:22.2 – 26:30.2] He liked to speak a while and then look it over, and he wanted it right then while his thoughts were working in the, in the same, uh, vein. [26:30.2 – 26:33.2] He, uh, usually came in in the morning with notes. [26:33.2 – 26:43.3] But I want to tell you, we could have done the book much more quickly if we hadn't had such marvelous people coming in at all times, 'cause Bill was ready to drop at any time. [26:43.3 – 26:52.6] And that's why I was the Duchess, 'cause I kept reminding him that, after all, we had a book to write, you know, and that, so that sort of thing which, which, uh, he always did. [26:52.6 – 27:01.1] So that when the, when the, when the– finally the– we, it– The book idea was started be-between, uh, Dr. [27:01.1 – 27:11.2] Bob and Akron and Cleveland and ourselves because so many questions were coming in about, well, uh, what, what do you do at a meeting, and how do you start, and all [27:11.2 – 27:11.8] the rest of it. [27:11.8 – 27:22.3] And Bi– Bill felt, uh, in the early days that everyone should be– every group had the right to formulate its own way of doing this particular thing, [27:22.3 – 27:30.8] um, until it, it came about that, uh, we had a wandering, loving, lovable Jewish salesman who traveled all through the South. [27:30.8 – 27:41.3] And he came back with stories about how they had one particular group that– where they served beer during the evening, but nothing but beer, so that everything was perfectly [27:41.3 – 27:42.2] fine. [27:42.2 – 27:49.0] And of course, it– Bill thought it was hilarious, but nevertheless, he also thought that this kind of thing shouldn't go on. [27:49.0 – 27:56.1] And that's, and that's, that's really how, uh, the idea of the book, uh, really started. [27:56.1 – 28:01.2] And besides, uh, I was getting a little tired of, of typing everything. [28:01.2 – 28:08.5] The whole i-idea, as I had– it had formulated, sifted through me, and I'll never know how, but I'm always grateful. [28:08.5 – 28:11.2] I'll always be grateful that I had the opportunity. [28:11.2 – 28:15.3] And at first, Bill read some of the letters and said, "You're doing fine, Dutch. [28:15.3 – 28:16.1] Just keep it up. [28:16.1 – 28:18.8] Don't bother me." I don't wr– I don't like to write letters. [28:18.8 – 28:20.1] I don't like to dictate letters. [28:20.1 – 28:22.3] And, and this is how I started. [28:22.3 – 28:32.5] But in those days, this was pre-woman's lib, and, uh, what man of any age was going to think a girl could possibly– whether Bill thought so or not didn't matter in those days, [28:32.5 – 28:36.3] uh, that a girl could, uh, possibly be able to do this. [28:36.3 – 28:40.2] Uh, I, I seemed to be able to project Bill. [28:40.2 – 28:42.5] It is the only way I can, I can put it at all. [28:42.5 – 28:45.3] So that was why it was our hawk for years. [28:45.3 – 28:48.6] And I do have a low voice and did way back then. [28:48.6 – 28:56.3] And people would call on the telephone, and, uh, uh, they sometimes didn't know the difference anyway, so I'd, uh… [28:56.3 – 29:00.8] And I still have, uh, telephone operators, uh, say, "I want to talk to Mr.– Mrs. [29:00.8 – 29:03.3] Kruseides." And I said, "Speaking." They say, "Uh, Mrs. [29:03.3 – 29:04.5] Kruseides," you know? [29:04.5 – 29:10.2] So I– it did help from that standpoint until after a while, it just didn't matter an-anymore. [29:10.2 – 29:20.3] Now, the first, uh, thing, the first idea for naming the book was One Hundred Men because that's where we started, and of course, a lot of others. [29:20.3 – 29:24.6] Uh, I really don't know where the name Alcoholics Anonymous came from. [29:24.6 – 29:25.3] I really don't. [29:25.3 – 29:29.3] At the time– I mean, who originated that name at all? [29:29.3 – 29:37.8] But at the time, we had the book edited by a New York, uh, editor and his office staff. [29:37.8 – 29:45.7] Uh, we presented a group of names, and one was The Broken Glass, and some of these, uh, had been, uh, patented and so on. [29:45.7 – 29:49.9] But the minute he saw Alcoholics Anonymous, he said, "That's it. [29:49.9 – 29:53.7] That's it." And of course, uh, it– how could it be anything else? [29:53.7 – 29:58.1] I don't think anybody, any of us could conceive Of, of anything else. [29:58.1 – 30:08.2] But I, I went through years of, uh, Bill saying, "Now we have two hundred groups and five thousand people," and I'm still sitting in the audience shaking [30:08.2 – 30:08.8] my head. [30:08.8 – 30:10.4] No way. [30:10.4 – 30:20.0] You know, if it was a hundred short, that didn't matter to Bill, and of course, it, it, it really didn't matter. [30:20.0 – 30:22.1] But that's the, that's the type of guy Bill… [30:22.1 – 30:24.0] So we had pretty good balance going there. [30:24.0 – 30:28.0] We had a, uh, an enormous map of the United States. [30:28.0 – 30:37.2] This was Hank Hart– Hank Parker's idea, with pins from red, I don't remember the colors, but certain color for new gri-groups up to ten people. [30:37.2 – 30:40.5] And if you had, if you had a hundred, boy, you had a gold star. [30:40.5 – 30:44.7] I'll tell you, we really did go into that kind of thing for a while. [30:44.7 – 30:50.7] I, uh, I, and I really think that's, uh, where I'm going to stop. [30:50.7 – 30:53.7] I– that's where I run out of wind. [30:53.7 – 30:54.4] I really do. [30:54.4 – 30:59.6] But I would be glad to answer any questions because I'm not. [30:59.6 – 31:09.7] I [31:09.7 – 31:19.3] do know there's a lot of history you'd, you'd really like to hear, and I wish I were a public speaker, but I'm not, and I think you'll all enjoy it more if you sort of pull things out of a hat. [31:19.3 – 31:22.1] We'll tell them about you . [31:22.1 – 31:24.4] You would. [31:24.4 – 31:25.5] Question back. [31:25.5 – 31:26.3] Oh. [31:26.3 – 31:34.7] Bob has asked me to, uh, at lunchtime, I was telling them a story about the time we went to Cor- Cornwall, New York, to, uh, get the book rolling. [31:34.7 – 31:44.2] We couldn't afford to have, uh, paid proofreaders, so Bill Wilson and Hank Parkhurst and I, uh, went up to Cornwall, uh, New York, to do this. [31:44.2 – 31:46.9] We took the, the whole manuscript with us. [31:46.9 – 31:50.3] Ha-Hank, uh, Parkhurst had arranged for the basic. [31:50.3 – 31:59.9] We had no way paid for this, but we had– so he had sold enough stock, uh, in Works Publishing Company, which was organized to, uh, finance this book. [31:59.9 – 32:05.0] And everybody, Hank thought, at least, that everybody's going to make millions on selling this book. [32:05.0 – 32:06.6] But we couldn't raise it from Mr. [32:06.6 – 32:07.5] Rockefeller. [32:07.5 – 32:09.0] Bill had tried. [32:09.0 – 32:09.5] Uh, Mr. [32:09.5 – 32:16.9] Rockefeller felt that, uh, this was not, not the way to do this, by financing it from wealthy sources. [32:16.9 – 32:26.9] The– and he very wisely felt, I'm sure you'd all agree, that, uh, we ourselves should, uh, contribute enough to the kitty if that's the [32:26.9 – 32:27.7] way it had to be. [32:27.7 – 32:30.9] But nobody in those early days had enough money. [32:30.9 – 32:36.8] No alcoholic had it as yet in tw– in nineteen thirty-six or seven. [32:36.8 – 32:38.3] Thirty-seven, I think I decided. [32:38.3 – 32:48.5] And so, uh, Hank, they did put out, um, shares in Works Publishing Company, very few of which were sold, but enough was raised to get this [32:48.5 – 32:50.2] started and get it into the press. [32:50.2 – 32:53.6] But we had gone up, the three of us, to Cornwall to do this. [32:53.6 – 33:03.0] And Dorothy Snyder, uh, some of you may know Clarence Snyder of Cleveland, who was a great– had so much to do with starting the Cleveland, uh, AA group. [33:03.0 – 33:08.9] Uh, his wife ha-had a sister in Bronx, New York, and she had come to visit the sister and had met Bill. [33:08.9 – 33:12.4] And she called Bill up and said she was in town, and she'd like to see him. [33:12.4 – 33:13.7] And he said, "We're up at Cornwall. [33:13.7 – 33:15.3] Come on up," you know. [33:15.3 – 33:22.1] And, uh, I must say, uh, that like most men of good taste, Bill liked pretty girls, too. [33:22.1 – 33:31.0] And Dorothy was a lovely, warm, uh, just humorous, full of humor, full of laughter person, and he liked Dorothy very much. [33:31.0 – 33:41.0] So there we were, the four of us, and I had never met Dorothy Snyder before, but we immediately developed a, a perfect rapport, as though we'd known each other all our lives. [33:41.0 – 33:49.9] And after we had done the stint for the day, we– she and I shared a bedroom, and we were talking away and talking away, and this must have been one thirty, two o'clock in the morning. [33:49.9 – 33:52.3] There was a knock on the door, and it was Bill. [33:52.3 – 33:54.1] And Bill couldn't sleep. [33:54.1 – 33:59.5] Hank was sound asleep somewhere, but Bill couldn't sleep, and he– we had coffee sent up, Dorothy and I. [33:59.5 – 34:05.1] So we were in a room with one big double bed, so Bill just got right in the middle, and there we were. [34:05.1 – 34:15.5] And we talked the rest of the night, the three of us, in that position, and it was the kind of, uh, conversation, uh, and as I said, Bill just exuded [34:15.5 – 34:17.3] love and understanding. [34:17.3 – 34:27.5] And, uh, he did have wisdom, great deal, in my opinion, but he didn't think so, and he really constantly worked for it all his life and, and had, oh, [34:27.5 – 34:31.3] no, well, it's unbelievable how much wisdom he really ended up with. [34:31.3 – 34:37.5] But it, it was the way it goes. [34:37.5 – 34:39.0] Yeah. [34:39.0 – 34:43.8] I wanted to ask you, I, I, I just really just want to ask for a moment. [34:43.8 – 34:49.5] I was wondering, was Ebby in and out of the picture then, Ebby Thatcher, the guy that Bill talked to in the very, very beginning? [34:49.5 – 34:50.1] Right. [34:50.1 – 34:59.6] Sybil's question is about Ebby Thatcher, who actually is the man who started Bill in the direction where we're all at at this particular moment. [34:59.6 – 35:10.3] Uh, Ebby and, Ebby and Bill had been, uh, friends for many, many years, had helped each other out of drunk sit– drunken [35:10.3 – 35:11.9] stupors many times. [35:11.9 – 35:22.0] Sometimes Ebby, Bill, and sometimes Bill, Ebby helped each other out financially and, uh, had been at, uh, Towns Hospital together more than once with [35:22.0 – 35:23.2] won– the wonderful Dr. [35:23.2 – 35:33.5] Silkworth, who first gave us the, the medical, uh, backing we needed to, to, to make this believable to any, to, to doctors, [35:33.5 – 35:35.3] uh, at all in the first place. [35:35.3 – 35:41.7] But Ebby, uh, Ebby was sober at the ti– this was in nineteen thirty-four. [35:41.7 – 35:45.0] I'm quite sure of that date, but it doesn't really matter. [35:45.0 – 35:45.3] Uh- [35:45.4 – 35:48.7] Bill ended up in Towns Hospital once more, and Dr. [35:48.7 – 35:56.6] Silkworth, uh, as usual, talked to him, encouraged him, and said he wanted him to talk again with Ebby Thacher. [35:56.6 – 36:06.6] And, uh, who at this particular time was sober and had been for, I can't remember, about six months, I believe, with the help of the [36:06.6 – 36:09.7] Oxford Group, which was very active at that time. [36:09.7 – 36:19.8] And so, uh, Bill didn't think much of it in the hospital, but after he got home, Ebby came to the house, and [36:19.8 – 36:21.3] he was drinking at the time. [36:21.3 – 36:26.6] And Ebby came to the house and began to talk to him about the Oxford Group. [36:26.6 – 36:32.5] And somehow it did get through to Bill that maybe there was some help there in spite of everything. [36:32.5 – 36:36.9] So he began to be very interested in the Oxford Group. [36:36.9 – 36:46.9] Uh, he and Ebby together, Ebby again was not sober, but– and Bill was really interested and really thought that he had found, uh, [36:46.9 – 36:48.8] help with the Oxford Group. [36:48.8 – 36:59.1] And they, however, uh, and again, this came to mind when– with this manuscript here, um, their– one of their basic [36:59.1 – 37:09.2] tenets was that if you'd ever harmed anybody, anyone at all, in any way, no matter to what degree, you would– one of the requisites of trying to stay [37:09.2 – 37:19.5] sober was to go to that person, confess everything, theft, uh, anything that you had possibly done, insults, uh, [37:19.5 – 37:25.8] uh, physical, uh, mistreatment, any of it, apologize, do your best to make up for whatever had happened. [37:25.8 – 37:35.2] The only trouble Bill found with that was that, and this happened actually twice in the New York area, where men had done this. [37:35.2 – 37:45.6] In one case, the man across the street, uh, he explained, uh, or the, the couple across the street, he explained to his wife that he'd been unfaithful [37:45.6 – 37:53.5] and that this lovely girl lived right across the street, but it would never happen again, and, uh, he was so sorry, and so on. [37:53.5 – 38:03.8] Well, the first thing that happened, of course, uh, overcame the husband when this began to cr– go through the, from whis- whisper area, you know, from one to another, [38:03.8 – 38:06.6] and you don't keep that kind of thing secret the minute you say it that way. [38:06.6 – 38:09.2] Anyway, there was a great deal of trouble about it. [38:09.2 – 38:16.8] And, uh, that's when they began to realize that maybe that wasn't the best thing in the world if it hurt the other person. [38:16.8 – 38:20.1] If you could do that without hurting that person, that was fine. [38:20.1 – 38:30.5] Or if you could quietly make amends, uh, if you had stolen from your parents, and they didn't even know it, any, any way at all, but not to add further hurt to that [38:30.5 – 38:31.4] particular thing. [38:31.4 – 38:41.5] At the same time, about the same time, uh, the Oxford Group people were protesting somewhat that Bill was going off too much on his [38:41.5 – 38:42.1] own. [38:42.1 – 38:43.6] Again, the thought is here. [38:43.6 – 38:50.6] Uh, he thought that he could be most helpful to other alcoholics and wanted to concentrate on that area. [38:50.6 – 38:58.9] But the Oxford certain aspect, and I was not active, uh, I mean, I didn't know many of the Oxford Group people per se. [38:58.9 – 39:08.9] But, uh, a lot of them felt, at least those who had any authority, that Bill shouldn't do that, that he should be more, uh, along, [39:08.9 – 39:14.7] do everything for everybody to be part of what everybody else was doing and not concentrate. [39:14.7 – 39:22.6] Their, their feeling, I think, was that other people who weren't alcoholic could be just as helpful to the alcoholic as Bill, who was alcoholic. [39:22.6 – 39:24.0] And of course, Bill didn't agree with that. [39:24.0 – 39:28.3] As the first thing he understood, that that's where he could communicate. [39:28.3 – 39:35.3] And, uh, that's why he tried so desperately with many people in the New York area until he had Bob Smith. [39:35.3 – 39:38.5] He never, uh, no one ever, uh, really stuck. [39:38.5 – 39:48.1] But that's when they separated from the Oxford Group area, and, uh, because Bill was by that time absolutely sure that this is where he had to go. [39:48.1 – 39:51.0] So it was quite a thing for them. [39:51.0 – 39:52.8] Yeah. [39:52.8 – 39:55.4] Yes, sir. [39:55.4 – 40:05.1] How did you get in touch with Bill ? [40:05.1 – 40:08.5] The question is, how did I get in touch with Bill right at the very beginning? [40:08.5 – 40:18.5] And of course, I, um, I, I was, as I said, I think I was a very good secretary, and I didn't like the various jobs I had at that time. [40:18.5 – 40:25.2] And for one reason or another, I'd, I'd simply, uh, tell them I was quitting in two weeks and do so, and I was always able to get a job. [40:25.2 – 40:28.5] Of course, it was depression times, and you didn't work for much. [40:28.5 – 40:31.3] But I actually came to them through an agency. [40:31.3 – 40:38.8] Hank Parkhurst had contacted an agency for a secretary, and that's what I thought I was doing at the time. [40:38.8 – 40:44.3] I was sadly disillusioned, but it really was something. [40:44.3 – 40:48.7] What happened to Hank Parkhurst? [40:48.7 – 40:49.2] The question is: What happened to Hank Parkhurst? [40:49.2 – 40:53.2] Unfortunately, Hank, uh, he was sober. [40:53.2 – 40:55.8] I must have been two, three, four years. [40:55.8 – 40:57.2] It's hard for me to remember. [40:57.2 – 41:02.0] After I began, uh, wait just a minute, if you will, please. [41:02.0 – 41:08.3] I, um, he finally began to drink and began to drink heavily. [41:08.3 – 41:09.2] He was divorced. [41:09.2 – 41:11.2] He remarried, and that was unhappy. [41:11.2 – 41:14.8] He continued to drink off and on all through this period. [41:14.8 – 41:23.4] He, uh, was– he divorced the second time and remarried, and during that period, continued to drink, and he simply died. [41:23.4 – 41:30.4] I don't really know what the cause was, but during the third marriage, anyway, he– Well, it's the end of, the end of Hank. [41:30.4 – 41:31.2] Excuse me. [41:31.2 – 41:32.4] Somebody wants a question. [41:32.4 – 41:35.3] Did you know Bill prior to your drinking? [41:35.3 – 41:39.2] The question was, do I know Bi– did I know Bill prior to my drinking? [41:39.2 – 41:39.9] I did not. [41:39.9 – 41:45.9] No, I had no knowledge of– Well, not many people had heard of Bill, you must admit, at that time. [41:45.9 – 41:48.4] Very, very few people had. [41:48.4 – 41:58.4] At this time, we were having, uh, they were having, uh, in the New York area, I don't remember how many they had in, um, Cleveland and Akron, [41:58.4 – 42:02.7] but they, they had about 10 groups scattered and small. [42:02.7 – 42:12.7] Uh, but really, in those days, in the first clubhouse, and I would say again, coming up, that, um, they– we met in Bill Wilson's home mostly, sometimes [42:12.7 – 42:13.6] in the office. [42:13.6 – 42:22.0] That was rare, uh, because we were down at Vesey Street at this time in, in the Wall Street section of New York City, and this was pretty much closed at night. [42:22.0 – 42:32.2] But, um, some of the, uh, few men by this time did have a little money to put in the kitty, and they guaranteed or paid the first month's rent [42:32.2 – 42:36.4] and guaranteed the first year's, uh, rent on a clubhouse. [42:36.4 – 42:45.7] And this is where we met at that time, and this reminds me of it because we had the Serenity Prayer also right over the mantelpiece in this hall. [42:45.7 – 42:51.4] But most of the rent came from, uh, collections in this clubhouse. [42:51.4 – 42:58.3] And Bill and Lois, everybody was so broke, believe me, Bill and Lois lived in this clubhouse at that time. [42:58.3 – 43:06.2] It was a long room such as this, but more of a two-story, and it had a balcony in the front, uh, end of this hall, on one end of it. [43:06.2 – 43:13.0] The big fireplace on one end of it, uh, was a balcony which had a one bedroom and a bath. [43:13.0 – 43:21.4] Downstairs, they had– there was, um, a little kitchen bar where they made coffee, and they could get breakfast, and Lois could get a few meals together. [43:21.4 – 43:31.4] They had lost the house in Brooklyn, mortgaged, and this house, uh, um, I believe, was, uh, from Lois' family that she had inherited, but [43:31.4 – 43:33.8] they couldn't keep up the payments, couldn't keep up the mortgage. [43:33.8 – 43:42.6] And as I said, Bill, uh, was too interested in AA to, to be able, really, I don't think he could have concentrated. [43:42.6 – 43:46.0] This was all of a sudden his life got concentrated. [43:46.0 – 43:49.9] And as I say, again, it was Depression time, and he just simply couldn't make a living. [43:49.9 – 43:58.8] But this was very hard on Lois, who is a beautiful, beautiful woman, lovely person, lovely personality. [43:58.8 – 44:02.2] But she went through it just beautifully all the time. [44:02.2 – 44:08.5] And I'm sure the coffee there was some of the worst coffee you ever tasted in your whole life. [44:08.5 – 44:17.4] We had a caretaker who, uh, also, just for a place to live, he was the caretaker, and he was in charge of the coffee. [44:17.4 – 44:19.5] None of the girls were allowed to touch any of this. [44:19.5 – 44:20.8] This was his domain. [44:20.8 – 44:24.0] And believe me, it stood by itself. [44:24.0 – 44:26.4] It was really terrible. [44:26.4 – 44:27.6] It really was. [44:27.6 – 44:27.9] Yes. [44:27.9 – 44:29.5] Oh, this girl here, I think behind me. [44:29.5 – 44:39.6] Well, uh, the [44:39.6 – 44:44.1] question is about how the book was written and a little more about the first early groups. [44:44.1 – 44:52.6] Um, as I said, Bill did not like to dictate, uh, any– at any length of time and then have me type it and read it. [44:52.6 – 45:02.6] And he was very– his, his mind and, uh, whole, his whole thought process was just over and above and beyond all that, so that [45:02.6 – 45:08.7] he did come in almost every morning with, uh, a yellow legal pad on which he had made notes. [45:08.7 – 45:15.4] And, uh, if he was in the mood, he would, uh, stand behind me and simply begin to talk. [45:15.4 – 45:21.6] And I developed, uh, quite a speed to be able to keep up with this kind of dictation, which I had never tried before. [45:21.6 – 45:24.4] But he liked to see it appear ahead of him. [45:24.4 – 45:35.0] Now, we had, um, already contacted every group there was or any individual there might be with whom we had any kind of correspondence, [45:35.0 – 45:42.1] uh, for ideas and for, um, stories, personal stories, that if they cared to write their own stories. [45:42.1 – 45:52.1] Uh, and, um, this was, um, at this– at the time we were working on the original, the first few chapters and the, the [45:52.1 – 45:59.1] steps, the stories were in the process of coming in, and, and we didn't have much about, uh, in that way at that time. [45:59.1 – 46:03.0] But every, uh, I, I really don't know. [46:03.0 – 46:08.7] As I said, I don't have total recall, and I had no idea that history was going to ask details. [46:08.7 – 46:19.1] I, so I don't know how many of these we did, but we did, I would guess, 40 or 50 different times because every time we wrote to, uh, [46:19.1 – 46:24.7] even if we didn't write, we had criticism from Akron and Cleveland and wherever it was. [46:24.7 – 46:32.9] We heard that, "This is what you're going to say in the book, Bill, and you can't do that." And then we might do a couple pages and, and this sort of thing. [46:32.9 – 46:37.3] So it was a long, drawn-out, uh, thing from that standpoint. [46:37.3 – 46:47.7] This [46:47.7 – 46:48.8] was rather fascinating. [46:48.8 – 46:54.2] That part, the question is, did, did Bill have the steps together when we were writing the book? [46:54.2 – 47:00.4] And actually, uh, I believe that was the nucleus, uh, where, where Bill really started. [47:00.4 – 47:10.9] As I said, when they found that, uh, all kinds of weird things were happening, including serving beer at a meeting, uh, then I think, uh, he, [47:10.9 – 47:21.2] uh, I am sure that he came in one day with a yellow sh– legal sheet with 10 numbers and s– and various, under each one, something [47:21.2 – 47:26.2] that he thought was necessary so that the whole thing wouldn't disintegrate. [47:26.2 – 47:34.1] Now, Bill, uh, the, the, the fir– last thing in the world he wanted was to be considered a, a deity. [47:34.1 – 47:36.0] He didn't want to be revered. [47:36.0 – 47:38.8] He wanted to be loved, as we all do, and respected. [47:38.8 – 47:49.1] But he feared, I don't know where he had the wisdom early, to see how this thing might develop and how people [47:49.1 – 47:58.6] might think that this had to be somebody you had to kowtow to, to make obeisance to, and he c– he, he was a deeply religious man. [47:58.6 – 48:08.9] And although not a church, uh, affiliated man, but he realized that this could be the ruin of everything [48:08.9 – 48:11.3] in his heart he knew might be done. [48:11.3 – 48:21.3] He didn't have the big vision of what it has become, but he knew that a great many people– I think he thought if he, if thousands could be helped through this, [48:21.3 – 48:26.3] uh, way, that, that would be a miracle beyond anything he had dreamt of. [48:26.3 – 48:36.5] And of course, as it went on and on, he could see the whole thing develop and, and realize more and more that he had to seek for the wisdom to keep this [48:36.5 – 48:37.8] on a human basis. [48:37.8 – 48:42.2] He was mostly all a very human, very loving man. [48:42.2 – 48:48.4] But, uh, I, I think that's the hardest thing in the world to do. [48:48.4 – 48:51.0] We have two questions. [48:51.0 – 48:54.9] Uh, when did you move from Newark back to New York? [48:54.9 – 49:01.4] And then after that, have there been any broken or not letters? [49:01.4 – 49:11.9] Most, most humorous letter you ever got besides [49:11.9 – 49:16.0] Bill . [49:16.0 – 49:16.3] And, uh, Mm-hmm. [49:16.3 – 49:24.3] You know, that he would pull around with his big cow Well, it's a little hard. [49:24.3 – 49:32.2] Let me say for the– Well, could, did you all hear the question whether we had any funny letters and when we moved from Newark, New Jersey, to New York City? [49:32.2 – 49:42.4] Um, we, we moved, uh, that, I believe within the first six months, I think early in nineteen thirty-five, we moved from Vesey Street, uh, [49:42.4 – 49:47.0] mostly because we couldn't pay the rent at that point. [49:47.0 – 49:57.1] And somebody in New York, uh, one of the New York AAs, uh, recommended this office on Vesey Street, saying that if we made it more [49:57.1 – 50:05.5] convenient, uh, to mostly, most of them were New Yorkers at that time, why he would be willing to kick in a little bit for the rent over there to get us started. [50:05.5 – 50:10.5] So that was part of the reason we moved over there at, in, at that time. [50:10.5 – 50:13.4] Um, uh, it is a little hard. [50:13.4 – 50:22.4] I think to me, the, the funniest, uh, one of the funniest ones was, funniest letters was a, uh, request for a form to fill out. [50:22.4 – 50:29.7] And, uh, saying that they couldn't afford much in the way of dues, but anything under ten dollars a year they could afford. [50:29.7 – 50:35.0] But it turned out to be the wife who was going to do this applying for her husband. [50:35.0 – 50:36.4] And, you know. [50:36.4 – 50:42.5] And even then, in that, within the first year that I ever worked with this thing, I knew that this wasn't going to work. [50:42.5 – 50:48.7] But we, we had a lot of criticism from that angle of, uh, why can't you? [50:48.7 – 50:50.1] Why can't you talk to them? [50:50.1 – 50:52.2] Why don't you send somebody out to talk to them? [50:52.2 – 51:02.2] And, and sometimes, and I think, uh, AAs, a lot of them are still willing if somebody is heartbroken enough to try, and I suppose it doesn't help, although [51:02.2 – 51:03.1] we all know. [51:03.1 – 51:11.5] But I think looking at this meeting, uh, I, I remember a couple of nights in the New York clubhouse when people came in off the street. [51:11.5 – 51:12.9] These were all open meetings. [51:12.9 – 51:15.2] At that time, I don't think there was a closed meeting. [51:15.2 – 51:22.5] Anybody could come to Bill Wilson's house if you heard there was gonna be a meeting, whether you were an alcoholic or just a wife or family of any kind. [51:22.5 – 51:30.6] But people in tie and tails, and one with a top hat, sitting here to see what's going on, and not very sober, any of them. [51:30.6 – 51:40.7] I don't know whether any of them, whether any of them ever ended up in, in the, as an AA, but, uh, this is the way, this being New York, I suppose, this is the way it all happened. [51:40.7 – 51:50.7] Do you know when the Serenity Prayer came into the [51:50.7 – 51:51.3] picture? [51:51.3 – 51:51.5] Mm-hmm. [51:51.5 – 51:55.5] Question is where the Serenity Prayer came into the picture. [51:55.5 – 51:56.8] It was not in the office. [51:56.8 – 51:59.0] It was in the first clubhouse building on the wall. [51:59.0 – 52:00.9] But I, uh, I don't know. [52:00.9 – 52:05.0] I suppose you all, and I don't think it's any big secret, you know, all know Art Carney. [52:05.0 – 52:08.1] Art had a brother who was in AA, and this is Jack Carney. [52:08.1 – 52:09.0] He's been– He's dead. [52:09.0 – 52:10.3] He's been dead a long time. [52:10.3 – 52:18.0] But Jack was desperately, he was very young, one of the youngest men who had ever tried to really make it in AA at that time. [52:18.0 – 52:21.6] Uh, he was, um, stage personality. [52:21.6 – 52:25.3] He wanted to sing as Art always did, or I mean, you know, make appearances. [52:25.3 – 52:27.7] And he did sing beautifully, and he had a guitar. [52:27.7 – 52:30.1] And he came in one day. [52:30.1 – 52:35.2] Uh, we were both young and both had a diff– had a bad marriage and so on. [52:35.2 – 52:38.1] And we, he did come in and out a lot, and we had lunch. [52:38.1 – 52:48.1] But he came in one day with a, a clipping about so big, and it, it was the Serenity Prayer, signed Mother, and it came from one of the [52:48.1 – 52:49.2] New York newspapers. [52:49.2 – 52:52.5] He had cut it out and thought it was particularly apropos. [52:52.5 – 52:54.6] And of course, so did I immediately. [52:54.6 – 53:04.6] I mean, it was apropos for me, not that I particularly thought about it in terms of AA, but I was so impressed with it that I did use it in many, many letters [53:04.6 – 53:08.6] for, uh, for several months, and they began to use it in New York City. [53:08.6 – 53:18.6] And then Horace Crystal, who was one of the few AAs who had a few hundred dollars, came in one day and offered to print several hundred cards, just little calling [53:18.6 – 53:26.4] cards, with the prayer printed on it so that I could send them out, and anyone who wanted to could pass them around the New York City area. [53:26.4 – 53:28.5] And that's what they did do. [53:28.5 – 53:38.0] I carried that clipping personally for many years and then gave it up to, uh, we were laughing about this, to an AA who promised immediately [53:38.2 – 53:40.8] To– he wanted to photostat it and return it to me. [53:40.8 – 53:50.9] And that was the last I ever saw, but But I understand, thank goodness, [53:50.9 – 53:58.1] I did have a chance to get to New York City and talk to Nell Wing about a year and a half ago, and, uh, I had written to her. [53:58.1 – 54:06.1] Finally, she had been asking me these questions, and I told her, uh, it was– well, to whom I'd sent it, and she was able to get it from him. [54:06.1 – 54:09.0] So it is in the New York offices, and I'm very glad of that. [54:09.0 – 54:12.2] I, I treasured that personally, so I'm glad it's really there. [54:12.2 – 54:20.5] Yes. [54:20.5 – 54:23.5] The question is how the Jack Alexander story came to be printed. [54:23.5 – 54:26.4] I belie– I, I really can't swear to it. [54:26.4 – 54:32.9] Uh, my– some of the recall, uh, my recall is not good, but I believe he saw it in Liberty Magazine. [54:32.9 – 54:43.1] We had a small article in Liberty Magazine which fascinated him, and he wanted to do a, a, uh, longer and more covering article on the whole thing. [54:43.1 – 54:46.4] And that's, uh, just the way I remember that. [54:46.4 – 54:52.0] Yes. [54:52.0 – 54:52.3] Yes. [54:52.3 – 54:54.5] And of course, uh, the question is about Dr. [54:54.5 – 54:55.2] Bob. [54:55.2 – 54:56.9] I knew Dr. [54:56.9 – 55:02.5] Bob, uh, as much as I could between having to go back– being in New York, and he was there. [55:02.5 – 55:05.7] But he visit– did visit New York, and I did visit him. [55:05.7 – 55:13.6] Uh, I did visit some of the groups, just once went around the country a little bit and, uh, did stop and visit with Ann and Dr. [55:13.6 – 55:14.0] Bob. [55:14.0 – 55:17.5] Now, he was a very different man from Bill. [55:17.5 – 55:22.9] The, the basic humility, the, the basic love and understanding were there. [55:22.9 – 55:32.9] Bill was a dreamer, uh, a s– a spiritual man, more in the sense of drifting and imaginatively, where [55:32.9 – 55:33.1] Dr. [55:33.1 – 55:35.9] Bob was here and now. [55:35.9 – 55:47.6] Just as loving, just as wonderful a man, but much more, I, in my opinion, much more practical man, but also just as human, wa-warmly [55:47.6 – 55:50.9] giving and accepting as, as Bill was. [55:50.9 – 55:56.3] He loved a good joke, and there was nothing better than Bill loved a good joke, even on himself. [55:56.3 – 55:59.2] I'd like to tell you one of the funniest things in that way. [55:59.2 – 56:02.0] This was at the time we were trying to impress, uh, Mr. [56:02.0 – 56:05.7] Rockefeller and his various representatives. [56:05.7 – 56:15.8] And also, we were, we were impressed by the fact that we had two young men in their early thirties who were interested in AA and were talking to Bill and the, the hundred or so [56:15.8 – 56:17.3] people we had around at the time. [56:17.3 – 56:23.1] And, uh, one of them came from quite a wealthy family, was well-dressed and all. [56:23.1 – 56:28.0] The other was really a gutter bum type of fella, but cleaned up and everything. [56:28.0 – 56:30.9] He was– We, we never did think very much of him. [56:30.9 – 56:36.3] Now, even Bill had his failings, and Bill had his doubts about this young fella very much. [56:36.3 – 56:41.0] But the other fella, he looked really good, and, uh, he, uh… [56:41.0 – 56:45.6] So Bill invited him to come to the office one day and to meet, um, Mr. [56:45.6 – 56:46.6] Richardson, who was Mr. [56:46.6 – 56:53.4] Rockefeller's representative at that time, financially, and his spiritual a-advisor, too, I believe. [56:53.4 – 56:59.3] But anyway, um, this young fella arrived at the office early and plastered. [56:59.3 – 57:02.5] Plastered to the– Oh, he was terrible. [57:02.5 – 57:04.7] Really sloppy, kind of, you know. [57:04.7 – 57:10.6] And so Bill had a very tiny office, which, it was a little corner like that. [57:10.6 – 57:15.8] That was Bill's office, but it had a big couch on– in it and one big easy chair and then a small desk. [57:15.8 – 57:21.7] So I got this fella stretched out on the couch and shut the door, hoping to intercept Bill and Mr. [57:21.7 – 57:22.5] Richardson. [57:22.5 – 57:28.0] But Bill was, as usual, talking and waving and explaining to Mr. [57:28.0 – 57:32.9] Richardson that, "This is Dutch, who does all our work." He never took a breath. [57:32.9 – 57:34.8] I couldn't get across to him. [57:34.8 – 57:36.9] No way today, you know. [57:36.9 – 57:47.0] I was trying to say, "Bill." But Bill was not receiving, and he said, "And this, I'm sure, is our young, our youngest representative." [57:47.0 – 57:49.7] And here he was, out. [57:49.7 – 57:56.1] He was really out like a light, and Bill let out a roar of laughter. [57:56.1 – 57:56.9] You could have heard it. [57:56.9 – 58:01.0] He thought that was the funniest thing that happened to him for a long time. [58:01.0 – 58:05.1] So he had a marvelous sense of humor, and- … [58:05.1 – 58:07.5] fortunately, we weren't dependent on Mr. [58:07.5 – 58:08.9] Rockefeller's money. [58:08.9 – 58:11.1] I think it might have had an influence. [58:11.1 – 58:12.3] I really don't know. [58:12.3 – 58:14.9] Yes. [58:14.9 – 58:25.3] We hear out here Well, [58:25.3 – 58:27.2] how did I get as a non-alcoholic? [58:27.2 – 58:35.5] No, we didn't say, "You can't have a book," or, "You can't come to a meeting." In those days, everybody was welcome because this was Bill's way of talking to people. [58:35.5 – 58:38.9] But Kay had answered, I don't know whether– I think it was Liberty Magazine. [58:38.9 – 58:43.6] Uh, remind me to say, talk about the, uh, appearance, the one-minute. [58:43.6 – 58:44.7] Bill, I forget the name of it. [58:44.7 – 58:51.4] But anyway, she answered an ad, and, uh, I mean, uh, uh, wrote to us after reading one of the articles. [58:51.4 – 58:56.8] And, uh, I beli– If I remember correctly, she wanted help for her husband, who was in California at the time. [58:56.8 – 58:58.0] That's the way I remember. [58:58.0 – 59:02.5] But anyway, Bill saw no reason why she couldn't have a book, so long as she was to pay for it. [59:02.5 – 59:04.7] We needed every little cent at that time. [59:04.7 – 59:07.5] And obviously, Kay could afford it. [59:07.5 – 59:15.9] So Kay came in, and Bill had a long talk with her and explained how it was done and why we couldn't just send her a pill along with this to do a lot of good. [59:15.9 – 59:18.1] But she did take the, uh… [59:18.1 – 59:23.9] In her way, I think she helped spread the good word, as I, I think it's a good word, and I know, I know you all do. [59:23.9 – 59:24.7] That's how. [59:24.7 – 59:33.2] I thought it was the book. [59:33.2 – 59:35.2] I, I think the book was already out. [59:35.2 – 59:36.5] In the– I think so. [59:36.5 – 59:37.0] Yes. [59:37.0 – 59:46.1] Yes, it was. [59:46.1 – 59:51.6] That's this, nineteen thirty-nine. [59:51.6 – 59:53.3] Mm-hmm. [59:53.3 – 59:59.8] Um. [59:59.8 – 60:07.0] I think there are more reasons than that. [60:07.0 – 60:12.2] Right. [60:12.2 – 60:13.1] Yes. [60:13.1 – 60:23.2] Before the public [60:23.2 – 60:25.2] They were always. [60:25.2 – 60:33.7] I said 10 before, and that's why I– that's wrong because I believe, I'm sure he came in with 12, uh, the number 12, and it never varied from that. [60:33.7 – 60:35.9] Never, never did vary from that at all. [60:35.9 – 60:39.2] One minute to 5:00? [60:39.2 – 60:41.0] Oh, I, yeah. [60:41.0 – 60:45.4] I, I– something that amused me about the, the, um, getting to the public part of it. [60:45.4 – 60:48.0] There was a program at that time called what? [60:48.0 – 60:53.6] We the People, and everybody was allowed to appear. [60:53.6 – 60:54.6] Uh, there was one minute. [60:54.6 – 61:01.0] You had one minute to talk, and this was one of the first shows that tried to bring to the public s-some of these things. [61:01.0 – 61:05.7] Well, at that time, we had a very, very handsome, very young man. [61:05.7 – 61:07.3] He really was handsome. [61:07.3 – 61:08.5] He was a chorad. [61:08.5 – 61:11.5] He– oh, he was a gorgeous creature, and sober. [61:11.5 – 61:16.5] And he, uh, he, he told of himself how, why he finally came into AA. [61:16.5 – 61:26.6] He still had quite a good job at the time, but he had been to a party, and when he came to, he found himself stretched out on the dining room table with a lily in his hand, with his mouth hanging [61:26.6 – 61:27.0] open. [61:27.0 – 61:30.9] And he– this is what first made him think maybe he had a problem, you know? [61:30.9 – 61:31.3] He was… [61:31.3 – 61:32.5] So he came into AA. [61:32.5 – 61:35.3] But we thought this was the perfect person. [61:35.3 – 61:45.5] After all these battered-up old AAs we had at that time, none of them– Bill was beginning to look quite presentable, I'll tell you, but he, Bill was a very haggard, drawn [61:45.5 – 61:48.5] man when I first knew him, although he'd been sober a year. [61:48.5 – 61:56.0] But in any event, here was this handsome, un– you know, he hadn't much damage done to him, so they primed him for this one-minute talk. [61:56.0 – 62:02.2] But they never were very sure of Morgan, and so they had, they had a, a… [62:02.2 – 62:07.2] For a whole week beforehand, they had some– one of the AAs stayed with him every minute. [62:07.2 – 62:08.1] They slept with him. [62:08.1 – 62:11.4] They, they– But we were sure. [62:11.4 – 62:15.6] Now, the Liberty, uh, in answer to the Liberty article, we didn't get many. [62:15.6 – 62:16.7] I– not very many. [62:16.7 – 62:18.1] I don't know if we had 50. [62:18.1 – 62:18.6] I doubt it. [62:18.6 – 62:20.7] 50 responses from that. [62:20.7 – 62:24.8] But this, we were sure, we were sure was gonna just overwhelm us, you know, with the… [62:24.8 – 62:32.8] And we had the book printed at that time, and, uh, Hank sent out all kinds of cards to every doctor on a list he had gotten together. [62:32.8 – 62:41.9] Little, uh, if you wanna order the book, which is on, uh, radio at such and such a time, listen, and if you want to order the book, fill this in and send it in, you see. [62:41.9 – 62:43.1] 'Cause we, and we were all ready. [62:43.1 – 62:45.7] We had a lot of books packed in different numbers. [62:45.7 – 62:49.2] And, uh, so, so he did very well. [62:49.2 – 62:53.9] He, uh, but I don't, I don't know whether many people couldn't have been listening to the radio that night. [62:53.9 – 62:55.6] We had two orders. [62:55.6 – 63:00.3] One, one person, uh, uh, actually kept the book, COD, this was. [63:00.3 – 63:07.4] We did get the money for one book, and we had an order from a doctor for six books, which were returned to us. [63:07.4 – 63:09.6] Somebody thought it was a big joke, I think, you know. [63:09.6 – 63:13.5] And so we got those six back, and that was all, uh, the response. [63:13.5 – 63:16.9] So it took a lot of plugging to get anywhere with that. [63:16.9 – 63:17.7] Yes. [63:17.7 – 63:22.9] Can you tell me about the Oxford Group Mm-hmm. [63:22.9 – 63:30.1] I'm not, I'm not really too conversant with– The question is, uh, whether I knew anything about what the Oxford Group was. [63:30.1 – 63:34.5] It was one of the– It was started in England, I know that, and it was a religious movement. [63:34.5 – 63:37.3] I'm sure a lot of people can tell you more about than I. [63:37.3 – 63:46.1] But it was one of those revival movements that was a little more down to earth, uh, if I remember correctly, more on the Unitarian idea. [63:46.1 – 63:47.2] It wasn't, uh… [63:47.2 – 63:49.5] And it was all meetings between people. [63:49.5 – 63:55.5] Uh, one person to help the other, one group to help another, so that the concept, I think, was very good. [63:55.5 – 64:00.3] But it was, I think, a lot too limited for, uh, AAs. [64:00.3 – 64:06.8] And I think part of the reason for the book, or this being originally, this manuscript being written that way, was from that. [64:06.8 – 64:13.8] They felt they knew the answers, and if you just did it their way, uh, everybody could become really pretty good people. [64:13.8 – 64:20.7] And I think that's what, uh, influenced a lot of the first, uh, uh, runs of, of this manuscript. [64:20.7 – 64:21.4] Yes. [64:21.4 – 64:33.4] Do you remember [64:33.4 – 64:36.4] a man named Rob Rock who wrote for the The, the question is whether I remember a Rose Brock? [64:36.4 – 64:37.6] Rock. [64:37.6 – 64:37.7] Rock. [64:37.7 – 64:40.5] I'm sorry, I don't. [64:40.5 – 64:41.9] I really don't, no. [64:41.9 – 64:42.6] Yes. [64:42.6 – 64:52.9] Bill was, from what I read, that, uh, Bill had plenty of experience with the power of the Spirit, and he had plenty of faith in our ability [64:52.9 – 64:58.1] to see and to work with the power of the Spirit. [64:58.1 – 64:59.2] Only to some extent. [64:59.2 – 65:09.4] He was– I think this was Bill's earliest attempt to prove, which is something he always wanted to do, to prove the presence, [65:09.4 – 65:15.2] a presence to which we could all appeal, from which we could all get help. [65:15.2 – 65:20.5] Um, to me, uh, I'm a, as I said, I'm a very down-to-earth type of person. [65:20.5 – 65:30.5] One of the things Bill did do at the office, um, he believed at that point, it was one of the very early things, in, uh, automatic writing, you [65:30.5 – 65:31.2] would call it. [65:31.2 – 65:39.7] Anyway, he would sit and try to concentrate with a blank sheet of paper and a pen in his hand, and, uh, writings would appear. [65:39.7 – 65:42.3] Uh, only I'm a great scoffer. [65:42.3 – 65:52.3] And I watched him do it, and I said, "Okay, Bill," but it, uh, you know, if, if that's what you see, if that's where you think you got these answers or these things, but there [65:52.3 – 65:54.8] was never anything brilliant in these writings. [65:54.8 – 66:01.9] I, I personally thought Bill could do better if he just did it his own way, you know? [66:01.9 – 66:02.6] I really did. [66:02.6 – 66:05.8] But he kept hoping, really kept hoping. [66:05.8 – 66:15.7] He also got into the séance area at one point, and I did– was fortunate enough to be invited many times to Bedford Hills with other groups. [66:15.7 – 66:24.5] And, um, they– there was a little balcony at the big sprawling house, very attractive, but in one area of the upstairs, there was a balcony. [66:24.5 – 66:34.9] And at one evening, uh, he had been telling me, and Dorothy Snyder believed in this and said she had been at various séances where every, you know, the hands on the tabletop [66:34.9 – 66:37.5] and, uh, lifting the table. [66:37.5 – 66:41.1] Not only could they lift it, but the table would suddenly appear over in that corner. [66:41.1 – 66:43.8] Uh, they never were able to do that when I was there. [66:43.8 – 66:54.0] Now- But Bill said it was my fault, and he could- He could very well have been right, [66:54.0 – 66:55.1] you know? [66:55.1 – 67:04.0] Uh, were you still with Bill when, uh, how long have you been working on the degree, and did you not, uh, visit- No. [67:04.0 – 67:06.2] No, I wasn't. [67:06.2 – 67:07.4] I was not there at that time. [67:07.4 – 67:12.3] I left to be married in nineteen forty-two, and so I, I was not there. [67:12.3 – 67:13.1] Maybe with that. [67:13.1 – 67:16.0] I wanted to add, uh, something you… [67:16.0 – 67:17.3] Well, I'd forgotten it anyway. [67:17.3 – 67:20.4] In, in connect with the last question, and I've forgotten it. [67:20.4 – 67:21.0] I'm sorry. [67:21.0 – 67:21.2] Go ahead. [67:21.2 – 67:28.8] As I said, you know, give and take, I get along all right. [67:28.8 – 67:37.0] But- Well, I'd, uh, I'd have to go through the book. [67:37.0 – 67:38.3] I did know all of them. [67:38.3 – 67:41.9] Everyone who wrote a story in the book at all, I did know them all. [67:41.9 – 67:44.2] And I think most of them did. [67:44.2 – 67:49.2] I, I certainly think so, but I really, I don't know what percentage would have. [67:49.2 – 67:49.9] Yes. [67:49.9 – 67:59.1] You were close with Bill when he, uh, went to Father Dowling or Father Manning from the Catholic- Yes, I… [67:59.1 – 68:00.3] And he also talked. [68:00.3 – 68:01.3] We were talking about that. [68:01.3 – 68:06.5] The question is whether I'd known– gotten along with Bill when he, uh, thought about coming, becoming Catholic. [68:06.5 – 68:16.5] Uh, again, he was desperately seeking for the answers, and someone he had at that point, this was after I left, but I had still been seeing [68:16.5 – 68:18.1] a lot, going back and forth east. [68:18.1 – 68:20.8] My mother was still alive at that time, and I visited there a lot. [68:20.8 – 68:29.3] Um, he, uh, felt someone had suggested it might be a way out of these terrible depression spells that he was subject to. [68:29.3 – 68:39.3] And he spent, I'm sure, he at one point told me a whole year about seeing, uh, he had been very close to, to, um, Father [68:39.3 – 68:45.6] Dowling, and, uh, he then went through, uh, almost a year of it with, uh, Bishop Hehan. [68:45.6 – 68:55.7] But he told me at that time, and this was after he had stopped seeing them, that, uh, great as it had been wonderful, as, as it had been for [68:55.7 – 69:02.6] his knowledge and his understanding, he could not quite go all the way and, and become a Catholic at all. [69:02.6 – 69:06.2] What I started to say about the séance is which amused me. [69:06.2 – 69:07.5] I, I must add this. [69:07.5 – 69:15.5] Here was this beautiful building and this little, um, balcony up there, and there must have been thirty of us, I think, in this room at the time. [69:15.5 – 69:21.9] And everybody held hands, and we were to concentrate on this lit balcony and not say a word. [69:21.9 – 69:26.0] Well, this is hard to begin with for alcoholics, but- -they, they managed. [69:26.0 – 69:28.3] And there we were sitting, and I don't remember. [69:28.3 – 69:31.6] I think it must have been ten minutes before murmurs began around me. [69:31.6 – 69:34.2] I concentrated as hard as anyone, believe me. [69:34.2 – 69:37.2] I wanted to see what was happening, if there was anything happening. [69:37.2 – 69:41.2] And half of that group, "Now I see it. [69:41.2 – 69:44.1] Now I see the spirit," and, you know, this kind of thing. [69:44.1 – 69:45.2] But I never did. [69:45.2 – 69:45.9] I'm sorry. [69:45.9 – 69:48.3] I never did see the Holy Spirit. [69:48.3 – 69:50.3] All I saw was the light up there. [69:50.3 – 69:51.7] So he did try. [69:51.7 – 69:53.8] In the same connection, maybe you'd like to know that Dr. [69:53.8 – 69:59.3] Bob was deeply interested, and I don't know whether Bill's interest came from him or vice versa. [69:59.3 – 70:00.4] But Dr. [70:00.4 – 70:02.0] Bob was so interested. [70:02.0 – 70:12.3] I know he told us at one point that he was in a séance where the bugle floated through the wall, through the, the air, uh, with music [70:12.3 – 70:13.2] and so on. [70:13.2 – 70:14.6] Now, I wasn't there. [70:14.6 – 70:15.9] I don't know. [70:15.9 – 70:19.3] But they were– I don't think it matters at all. [70:19.3 – 70:26.8] To me, what matters were the, the depth, the strengths that these two men were seeking an answer for everybody. [70:26.8 – 70:28.3] I believe that's… [70:28.3 – 70:29.0] Yeah. [70:29.0 – 70:30.4] Don't be modest. [70:30.4 – 70:31.3] Tell them about the lone endeavor. [70:31.3 – 70:32.4] Oh. [70:32.4 – 70:33.6] Come on. [70:33.6 – 70:40.7] And I really hadn't, hadn't thought about that for the first, uh, the first, uh, book, the first, um, revision of the book. [70:40.7 – 70:45.5] Uh, the last story in it is called The Lone Endeavor, which I wrote. [70:45.5 – 70:51.3] But it isn't much of a story, and it was based on the fact that, uh, Bill thought it might be interesting. [70:51.3 – 71:00.3] This was on the basis of correspondence only and what this, um, ma– his mother had contacted me, and I had written, and then we had gotten in touch a little bit. [71:00.3 – 71:05.9] And at that– And I never did know what happened to them, to him, and nobody in New York, in New York does either. [71:05.9 – 71:11.8] But after that first, uh, the next time the books were rewritten, that was left out. [71:11.8 – 71:13.5] It was very well left out. [71:13.5 – 71:14.9] I mean, it wasn't anything exceptional. [71:14.9 – 71:17.6] Thank you, Bob, for that. [71:17.6 – 71:24.8] Oh, yes, I did indeed know Florence. [71:24.8 – 71:27.7] But that wasn't too happy an ending either, you know. [71:27.7 – 71:30.6] But, uh, Florence was [71:30.8 – 71:38.4] As far as I know, the very first woman I had any contact with, woman alcoholic, uh, as always, a very lovely person. [71:38.4 – 71:39.5] She had been divorced. [71:39.5 – 71:44.7] Her children had turned against her, uh, and the men were desperately trying to help her. [71:44.7 – 71:46.4] She had lost her home. [71:46.4 – 71:47.2] She had nothing. [71:47.2 – 71:55.7] She had really– she was really in the depths as most of the early AAs were, and this must have been, I'm sure, nineteen thirty-eight or thirty-nine. [71:55.7 – 71:57.2] It was very early on. [71:57.2 – 72:04.0] And, uh, I, at the time, was, was still married and going through this very bad marriage and needed to work desperately. [72:04.0 – 72:07.8] And, uh, they suggested that she be my housekeeper. [72:07.8 – 72:09.4] I had a little boy, three-year-old boy. [72:09.4 – 72:14.9] So this is what happened, and she came to live with us, and she was marvelous cook. [72:14.9 – 72:17.1] Oh, this was really heaven for me. [72:17.1 – 72:19.2] Took wonderful care of my child. [72:19.2 – 72:20.3] She was very good to him. [72:20.3 – 72:28.8] And, um, everything went fine until I– it was my birthday, and Florence was going to, uh, really cook me a dinner. [72:28.8 – 72:32.6] We'd have iron all dinners with a birthday cake and all the rest of it. [72:32.6 – 72:38.7] And when I got home, Florence was celebrating my birthday, but in a big way. [72:38.7 – 72:45.5] She did, uh, she did come and go, and, and, uh, she did try very hard, but she didn't live too long either. [72:45.5 – 72:46.9] I don't– maybe not ten years. [72:46.9 – 72:50.2] I really don't know, but she was, uh, just great. [72:50.2 – 72:51.4] Thank you. [72:51.4 – 72:52.2] Yes. [72:52.2 – 73:06.5] Eighty? [73:06.5 – 73:13.7] The question, the statement was made that eighty of the original hundred men dr- died drunk. [73:13.7 – 73:18.3] I, as I said, I– we never used to count in those days. [73:18.3 – 73:21.0] Bill, again, had pred– always made predictions. [73:21.0 – 73:28.3] He used to say at that time, fifty percent stayed sober for a while, and twenty-five percent made it. [73:28.3 – 73:31.1] Now, that may be close to your figure. [73:31.1 – 73:34.8] No, no. [73:34.8 – 73:36.0] No, that isn't what I'm saying. [73:36.0 – 73:40.0] What I'm saying is, of the hundred men, uh, about whom we've talked. [73:40.0 – 73:47.1] Now, the men who wrote the book, some, uh, we, uh, some came from– And by the time that book was written, we must have had five hundred men at least. [73:47.1 – 73:54.1] And, and some of those stories, you know, came from, most of them, I think, came from Cleveland, Akron, and, uh, scattered all over the country. [73:54.1 – 74:02.5] No, of those first hundred, I, I, I think maybe fifty percent would be a better guess for me because they were so desperate. [74:02.5 – 74:05.9] Uh, I do think the average is better than this. [74:05.9 – 74:15.5] The book written by Bill, the last thing they mentioned, the hundred alcoholics, now, was the book actually written by Bill? [74:15.5 – 74:16.4] Indeed, it was. [74:16.4 – 74:22.2] Uh, the Bill, the statement, it was that the hundred- Hundred men wrote the book. [74:22.2 – 74:22.3] No. [74:22.3 – 74:24.6] No, if I said that or intimated that, that isn't right. [74:24.6 – 74:25.2] I'm saying… [74:25.2 – 74:27.7] Oh, no, because it isn't true. [74:27.7 – 74:34.1] There were about a hundred men, and the thought was that maybe the title of the book should be one hundred men. [74:34.1 – 74:35.3] That was all. [74:35.3 – 74:37.2] Oh, no, Bill wrote the book. [74:37.2 – 74:40.1] Now, Parker, uh, contributed a lot of ideas. [74:40.1 – 74:41.2] He really did. [74:41.2 – 74:45.5] But, uh, the ninety percent of it is Bill's thinking and thought. [74:45.5 – 74:51.0] Plus the input that he got from, uh, acting by Paul. [74:51.0 – 74:52.3] Oh, that's what I'm say– I meant. [74:52.3 – 74:54.0] I should indeed have added that. [74:54.0 – 75:04.1] You're so right because he checked every inch of the way, particularly with Bob Smith and also with Clarence Snyder and anyone else who, uh, wanted to read [75:04.1 – 75:07.8] it because he didn't– he wanted it to be everybody's thought in it. [75:07.8 – 75:08.7] You're so right. [75:08.7 – 75:09.9] Thanks for bringing that up. [75:09.9 – 75:10.5] Yeah. [75:10.5 – 75:11.7] Sorry. [75:11.7 – 75:19.2] Do you remember, are you involved in between around starting by, was there ever objection to that being put on? [75:19.2 – 75:19.7] Mm-hmm. [75:19.7 – 75:29.7] Most definitely, uh, a real objection because if there was any strong feeling at that, one of the strong feelings, very strong feelings, was that, [75:29.7 – 75:33.9] uh, in no way should it relate to you personally. [75:33.9 – 75:37.3] There should be no name attached to any of that. [75:37.3 – 75:44.6] And of course, Bill, and, uh, that's why he so religiously himself, and Doctor Bob, Doctor Bob was very strong on that. [75:44.6 – 75:48.4] And that's why they, as an example, religiously stuck with that. [75:48.4 – 75:54.2] And they did object very strenuously to Lillian Ross putting her name to it. [75:54.2 – 76:02.6] In nineteen fifty-four, Bill made a walk to Texas, and with me, he had pulled out a number of things. [76:02.6 – 76:12.9] One of the things that interested me was that he pulled out going to see Doctor Bob prior to the book being written with an idea of finding out first how many members he made by Doctor [76:12.9 – 76:13.8] Bob, about forty. [76:13.8 – 76:23.9] But also, that they should, uh, they should get these forty people together, find they'd been married for a year of this group of people, and also to [76:23.9 – 76:34.0] start a chain of cocktail, these are cocktails for, uh, purpose of having drunk sober, but also making money for full on the brochure [76:34.0 – 76:35.3] and new problem at that time. [76:35.3 – 76:35.9] Mm-hmm. [76:35.9 – 76:42.4] Doctor Bob, uh, according to Bill, said, "Well, we need to write this book." Were you involved in any of that? [76:42.4 – 76:45.3] And how long did it take them to forget about the hospital? [76:45.3 – 76:51.2] I think they forgot about that within a very short time after it was ever dreamt up. [76:51.2 – 76:55.3] There was some discussion, but never anything, uh, thorough about that. [76:55.3 – 76:58.6] And I, uh, it may have been Doctor Bob. [76:58.6 – 77:06.3] So much was just done sort of mutually that I don't know orig- really any more than I know who first thought of Alcoholics Anonymous. [77:06.3 – 77:08.3] It might have come from way across country. [77:08.3 – 77:10.6] I don't– At last, I knew Bill didn't remember it either. [77:10.6 – 77:13.2] But I didn't. [77:13.2 – 77:13.4] Yes. [77:13.4 – 77:15.8] Finalizing the process. [77:15.8 – 77:25.9] Are you sitting there No, as I said earlier, I believe that he came in one day with a basic [77:25.9 – 77:30.0] thought behind each of those steps on a sheet of yellow paper. [77:30.0 – 77:32.6] Unfortunately, I wasn't smart enough to save these things. [77:32.6 – 77:33.9] That would have been marvelous, wouldn't it? [77:33.9 – 77:34.7] But I didn't. [77:34.7 – 77:37.2] But I, uh, I'm, I'm sure. [77:37.2 – 77:44.2] Now, it probably came as a result of much conversation Because Bill did love to talk. [77:44.2 – 77:51.5] He loved to argue because he was just as open, he was as receptive as he was wanting to impart what he felt. [77:51.5 – 77:58.7] And, and, uh, so a l-lot of his thinking is the result of many people's thinking, but he did put them down on paper first. [77:58.7 – 77:59.3] Yes. [77:59.3 – 78:06.7] Did you write the long form and the short form, and go back and forth, or did you start and add it later on? [78:06.7 – 78:08.2] In the, in the origin– Excuse me. [78:08.2 – 78:11.8] Did you write the long form first- Okay. [78:11.8 – 78:13.6] Bill wrote all of them. [78:13.6 – 78:23.6] And as he, as I said, m- the main part of the, the big book with the help of many people, and I'm sure he– I wasn't there when he went, uh, when he did any of the [78:23.6 – 78:28.1] other, but I, as I understand it, he did, uh, ev– he wrote them all. [78:28.1 – 78:30.1] He wrote all of the additions. [78:30.1 – 78:35.0] Again, I'm sure consulting everybody who would discuss the situation with him at all. [78:35.0 – 78:36.6] I really think so. [78:36.6 – 78:40.2] So I– Yes. [78:40.2 – 78:43.5] You said you were from Ohio. [78:43.5 – 78:43.6] I'm sure I'm from Ohio. [78:43.6 – 78:43.9] Are you? [78:43.9 – 78:46.1] Visiting. [78:46.1 – 78:46.3] Are you? [78:46.3 – 78:46.5] Good. [78:46.5 – 78:48.5] We're from Marietta. [78:48.5 – 78:51.0] Dr. [78:51.0 – 78:53.2] Bob was my home man. [78:53.2 – 78:58.0] Yes, they were great. [78:58.0 – 78:59.3] Really great. [78:59.3 – 79:01.0] Mm-hmm. [79:01.0 – 79:11.1] The thing that I, I wanted to mention was, uh, back in October, probably close to a year [79:11.1 – 79:12.1] ago, we talked briefly about the four S's. [79:12.1 – 79:13.2] Mm-hmm. [79:13.2 – 79:18.5] And then came the discussion about the three unsocial club. [79:18.5 – 79:18.8] Mm-hmm. [79:18.8 – 79:43.5] Uh, in this area out here in Thank [79:43.5 – 79:44.0] you very much. [79:44.0 – 79:46.0] I would like to tell you one more funny thing. [79:46.0 – 79:49.8] We had a, uh, a very interested person, not alcoholic. [79:49.8 – 79:55.9] Um, and there's– she was called Sister Francis, and she owned a little farm up in the Connecticut area, I believe. [79:55.9 – 79:59.5] And she made this open and available to all AA. [79:59.5 – 80:04.7] This was the first place we had to send anybody for a recuperative period. [80:04.7 – 80:06.4] Uh, she wasn't a nurse or anything. [80:06.4 – 80:13.0] She was just another loving person, and she immediately, she and Bill developed an understanding and an association. [80:13.0 – 80:22.5] And this was– this little farm was an ancient, funny, little old building, but it was the first place that any of– anyone had to go for a recuperative period. [80:22.5 – 80:26.5] And she furnished the food, and they helped with the work and, and that type of thing. [80:26.5 – 80:31.3] But in addition, it was such a grand place that a lot of us went up for weekends and so on. [80:31.3 – 80:33.4] And this was called Joy Farm. [80:33.4 – 80:40.9] And this is one of the things that amused me before in saying we should work with, uh, men only type because this was mixed up there. [80:40.9 – 80:43.8] And the joy was sometimes wrapped up. [80:43.8 – 80:47.1] It really was. [80:47.1 – 80:50.6] It really was. [80:50.6 – 80:52.3] I do thank you all for listening. [80:52.3 – 80:53.2] Thank you very much. [80:53.2 – 81:16.1] Now, [81:16.1 – 81:25.9] the reason I checked with her daughter, Laurie, on the time is that Laurie has this new baby, the live wiggling kind, two months old now. [81:25.9 – 81:35.9] And Ruth wants to see her grandchildren because Laurie has a little boy, Flip, and they have to go clear back down to Orange County and told me they could be out of here [81:35.9 – 81:37.2] no later than five. [81:37.2 – 81:45.1] When I know that most of you want to shake hands or say hi or goodbye or something or other when we bring this thing to a close. [81:45.1 – 81:55.1] And so that's why we have about thirty minutes, about ten minutes up here, and then maybe Barbara would be kind enough to take Ruth on downstairs for the additional fifteen and let her sit down and [81:55.1 – 81:56.6] get her a cup of coffee or something. [81:56.6 – 81:57.7] Would you do that, Barbara? [81:57.7 – 82:03.5] I have something to do first, though, and I think– Oh, now just a minute. [82:03.5 – 82:07.2] I think I know who will do it for me. [82:07.2 – 82:17.2] Way back when, uh, way back when I was in the central office, there was a young court about a year sober who started a group called the Sunday Noon Group. [82:17.2 – 82:27.7] And he was really wrapped up in seeing that the message was carried and that we members picked up our own tab and that we were self-supporting [82:27.7 – 82:37.7] when we rented a hall such as this, or when we bought coffee such as there is back there, or if we had any money to send it to, to the Los Angeles office, and of course, [82:37.7 – 82:40.1] to the New York office. [82:40.1 – 82:43.4] And he used to do it better than anybody I know. [82:43.4 – 82:48.4] And all of you know that we are going to be self-supporting today for this rare treat. [82:48.4 – 82:50.0] We wouldn't have it any other way. [82:50.0 – 82:53.0] But, Jules, do you remember what you used to tell them? [82:53.0 – 82:55.7] Tell them. [82:55.7 – 82:57.9] If I tell these people, I'll never do it. [82:57.9 – 83:02.5] Try it. [83:02.5 – 83:03.0] Try it. [83:03.0 – 83:03.6] Try it, Jules. [83:03.6 – 83:04.3] Come on. [83:04.3 – 83:05.6] They looked pretty good, though. [83:05.6 – 83:06.8] We did do a three of them. [83:06.8 – 83:09.5] We kind of passed the basket, put it in. [83:09.5 – 83:11.4] We got to pay for the hall with it. [83:11.4 – 83:17.1] There you go, and we're self-supporting, and that's the way it always was and should be forevermore. [83:17.1 – 83:21.3] Now, then, I think some people have been assigned to do just that. [83:21.3 – 83:31.4] And, uh, I, I wanna tell you, be-before I say anything more, if any of you want to [83:31.4 – 83:39.8] save what was said today for posterity, take it home with you, play it to the friends that couldn't get here today. [83:39.8 – 83:46.9] See Joe Kirk after the meeting, and you will be able to get a tape of the session that we've just enjoyed with Ruth. [83:46.9 – 83:50.5] And you can ask Joe about that after the meeting. [83:50.5 – 83:55.7] Uh- I can't begin to tell you how grateful I am to… [83:55.7 – 84:05.9] I can't begin to tell you how grateful I am for the Glendale groups [84:05.9 – 84:11.2] for being so cooperative and arranging for me to get this call on such short notice. [84:11.2 – 84:17.1] And if any of you are hungry when you go downstairs, they sure have a mighty fine cook down there by the name of Winnie. [84:17.1 – 84:19.3] I've eaten some of her rhubarb pie. [84:19.3 – 84:21.6] Really homemade, was warm from the oven. [84:21.6 – 84:30.2] And, uh, so for the few minutes that we have left, uh, somebody kind of tipped me off there when the baskets were going around. [84:30.2 – 84:40.2] I do wanna thank Barbara and Bob and Lou, and, um, if I– now I've mentioned three names, and I'm gonna get, uh, forget forty because each [84:40.2 – 84:42.0] person I talked to did something. [84:42.0 – 84:43.3] Matt did a lot. [84:43.3 – 84:46.4] Marlene fed us, and Matt helped. [84:46.4 – 84:49.4] And, uh, oh, my. [84:49.4 – 84:50.7] I've been on the phone. [84:50.7 – 84:58.3] I just called a few of you and told you to bring a friend, and I didn't have much time, but I think we were amply rewarded. [84:58.3 – 85:08.5] I can't begin to tell you how much this has meant to me to be a Saturday evening post baby, alive and kicking, when I would have been dead [85:08.5 – 85:09.6] so very long ago. [85:09.6 – 85:10.5] Yes, Cliff. [85:10.5 – 85:12.6] Cliff is my sponsor, Cliff Walker. [85:12.6 – 85:21.3] I remember, uh, writing a letter to a service in New York to Mr. [85:21.3 – 85:23.0] Watson. [85:23.0 – 85:24.8] She didn't know who to write at. [85:24.8 – 85:27.0] She didn't know the name. [85:27.0 – 85:31.0] Uh, Cliff, get that on tape while they're passing the baskets. [85:31.0 – 85:32.8] There is. [85:32.8 – 85:35.7] Uh, Cliff Walker wrote his letter back to New York. [85:35.7 – 85:40.5] Dorothy wrote it for him because he wasn't able, to a Mr. [85:40.5 – 85:50.6] Watson in New York, and he took it over to Ruth, and Ruth answered the letter, and then you made twelve-step calls and called on me [85:50.6 – 85:55.7] and all the others until the central office started in nineteen forty-four. [85:55.7 – 85:57.1] And how about that? [85:57.1 – 86:01.9] I don't think, uh, I think we all owe Cliff and Dorothy an awful lot. [86:01.9 – 86:12.1] The Walker central office, [86:12.1 – 86:17.0] Dorothy and Cliff, and I think maybe the kids probably answered the phone once in a while, didn't they? [86:17.0 – 86:18.7] Even the dog answered. [86:18.7 – 86:19.3] Even the dog. [86:19.3 – 86:26.0] And I believe Walter King wrote a letter back there. [86:26.0 – 86:27.7] Oh, I forgot what happened to that letter. [86:27.7 – 86:30.0] You got a photostat, a copy of your letter. [86:30.0 – 86:35.6] Uh, um, you wrote New York, didn't you, and got a photostat copy of your letter that you wrote? [86:35.6 – 86:37.5] I eventually did. [86:37.5 – 86:42.4] Walter King is speaking now for the benefit of the mic. [86:42.4 – 86:51.3] Walter's telling us about stealing a copy of the Liberty Magazine after he got out of the nuthouse, Walter King. [86:51.3 – 86:53.9] He printed a penny postcard. [86:53.9 – 86:55.8] It was a penny in those days, and he mailed it. [86:55.8 – 86:59.5] A woman came to his door a few days later. [86:59.5 – 87:00.9] Oh, my goodness. [87:00.9 – 87:03.8] Kay Miller had the book under her arm and called on Walter King. [87:03.8 – 87:06.3] Would you finish that up here, Walter? [87:06.3 – 87:09.9] Would you finish that up here so that Joe can get it on the tape? [87:09.9 – 87:12.3] Well, no. [87:12.3 – 87:13.8] No, we don't have that much time. [87:13.8 – 87:15.4] We don't have that much time. [87:15.4 – 87:16.7] She's gotta be gone pretty soon. [87:16.7 – 87:18.5] But, uh, pick up where you left off. [87:18.5 – 87:19.8] I kept repeating it after you. [87:19.8 – 87:20.7] And I went back. [87:20.7 – 87:25.0] I asked if they ever kept any records, and Nell says, "I'll look them up," Nell Wing. [87:25.0 – 87:29.0] And when I got ready to come back to California, she handed me this envelope. [87:29.0 – 87:37.8] She says, "Open this when you get on the plane." And I did, and here's a photostatic copy of that penny postcard, both sides, that I wrote. [87:37.8 – 87:47.2] I, I was so rum dumb, I sent it to Liberty Magazine instead of your address, and a copy of two letters that I never did get, know anything about. [87:47.2 – 87:49.2] I have both of those framed in my home now. [87:49.2 – 87:49.9] So thank you. [87:49.9 – 87:58.0] That's- Thank you, Walter. [87:58.0 – 87:59.3] That's priceless. [87:59.3 – 88:03.3] I've heard you tell it before, but I've got goose pimples just hearing it all again. [88:03.3 – 88:08.7] Well, you know, uh, there were two things we didn't talk about, uh, when I came in. [88:08.7 – 88:10.6] A-a-one of them was money, and the other one was God. [88:10.6 – 88:12.6] We've discussed money and taking care of that. [88:12.6 – 88:18.1] And what has happened, Ruth, out here, and I don't know whether it's, uh, grown into other states or not, possibly. [88:18.1 – 88:26.5] Within the last ten or twelve years, since so many young people are coming in, and I mean young ones, nine, ten, thirteen years old. [88:26.5 – 88:30.0] I'm sponsoring a girl who's now nineteen, and she's been sober all the time. [88:30.0 – 88:34.5] We hold hands, and I kind of think it was the younger generation that started it. [88:34.5 – 88:36.4] We hold hands when we pray. [88:36.4 – 88:40.8] So I'm going to close this meeting in our usual fashion. [88:40.8 – 88:47.7] And after a moment's meditation, I wonder, Bud, if you would lead us in the Lord's Prayer. [88:47.7 – 88:49.6] Our Father. [88:49.6 – 88:54.8] Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. [88:54.8 – 89:03.5] Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. [89:03.5 – 89:11.3] Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. [89:11.3 – 89:21.5] And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, for thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory [89:21.5 – 89:22.1] forever. [89:22.1 – 89:23.0] Amen.