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Source: Scott L – Step Study (2003) – CD 5 – Date Unknown.mp3 File: scott-l-step-study-2003-cd-5-date-unknown.mp3 Duration: 00:53:04
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Hi, my name's Scott L. and I am an alcoholic. And most grateful and very gratified by the number of people that are this interested in the work. Boy, you guys got it going on around here, I promise you. And I've appreciated your humor and your questions have just been spectacular. Thank you so much. Someone was just asking me the purpose of the questions I ask at the end of the fifth step. And I'm going to cover that as soon as we do a moment of silence and acknowledge the presence of the great power of the loving God.
I'll meet you back here in just a minute. Amen. Thank you. The reason I ask the questions at the end, I think I left this one out. I also ask them if they've had a homosexual experience, if I haven't heard it. I always ask for that one because most of them are hiding that. And I do that so that they can complete their fifth step. That's my purpose. I'm not there to judge. I'm just trying to give them a chance to finish the fifth step. That's what that's about.
I'm going to talk mostly about step 12 this time. I heard my wife and I spoke at a conference a while back and they did the sobriety countdown thing. And the guy with 42 years was giving the big book to the guy with three days or something. And he says to him, remember, our program is one day at a time, in a row. Which I thought was a pretty good perspective. Talking a little bit about sponsorship, I had an experience.
The story I'm about to tell you is true and all of the dialogue in it is true also. I was a member of the Woodbine Club. They had a little bitty house and the only thing that held it together was the nicotine on the walls. I know if we had washed that place it would have come down. Tender box. It was so old it had a fuse box instead of a circuit breaker panel. And we started a non-smoking meeting in the back room of this thing, which is now my home group, the back room in Nashville.
And we had about 44 people just packed in. You're touching people on both sides. There's two people leaning in the window and two standing in the door. And we're just packed in like this. And just before the meeting started, I'm sober about five years, this newcomer I'm sponsoring sitting next to me leans over to me and says, you know, those guys in the front room are smoking like 5.2 cigarettes per hour apiece.
If the fire marshal ever saw this he'd shut us down in a heartbeat. And I said, and it was true, don't worry about it, I'm his sponsor. It affects everybody and I think that's important. One of the joys of sponsorship for me, and if I'd known the girls from the treatment center were leaving, we'd have done step 12, but has been having this experience, and I bet there are people in this room that have had it, where someone you're sponsoring or someone comes to you with a question and you did not know the answer until you opened your mouth and it came out.
I see you nodding. You know what I'm talking about. That a piece of the great truth that you did not know flowed through you. That's one of the great experiences of my life. If you haven't had that one, stick around and start sponsoring some people. It's an astonishing experience. We're going to talk a good bit about step 12. I watched a friend of mine get in about a 23-year chip about five years ago, and he said when he first got to recovery that he did not want to have a sponsor because he did not want anybody telling him what to do.
Then it occurred to him that people were telling him what to do all the time. A landlady telling him, get out. A cop telling him, get in. Maybe if he got one of these sponsor-fellers and did what he said, then nobody else would get to tell him what to do. That had been his experience for 23 years. I'm here to talk about step 12, about this opportunity to carry the message. This is just one of the joys of my life.
My wife and I are occasionally allowed to do a workshop on this, and it takes us two hours, so I'm going to see how much of that I can get into one. I want to talk about my sponsorship lineage and what I learned. I asked a fellow named Sonny Luther to sponsor me when I was about five months sober, and I was just a fire hazard. I was so dry. I was walking around not drinking all the time. That's just what I did 24 hours a day. I just didn't drink.
I'd done everything on the aftercare list that was there except for get a sponsor. Let's see if you can do it. I bet you can do this. I was so insane. This is a two-word fill-in-the-blank. Are you ready? I was so insane that I was looking for a sponsor I could relate to. Isn't that hilarious? If anybody here is new and doesn't think that's hilarious, please listen very closely. I'm a new guy. My brain is on nine different radio stations at the same time going full blast.
[00:05:01]
I only went to 87 meetings in my first 90 days. I tried to go to 90 and 90, but I can remember one time I was about to leave for the meeting, and my son decided to try to learn to dance standing up in a rocking chair. We went to the emergency room instead of the meeting. I didn't know you could go to two meetings in a day. Newcomer thinking, there really isn't much like it on the planet, thankfully.
Who can I relate to? I can relate to somebody else that can't figure out you can go to two meetings in a day is who I can relate to. I didn't need a sponsor I could relate to, and I don't today. I needed a sponsor I would obey. I saw Sonny at this meeting, and he was chairing. He was sober about 16 years, and I said, would you sponsor me? He said, sure, I'll be glad to. Here's my home number. Here's my work number.
Call me. I said, great. That's a Friday night, the Oak Hill meeting, and I felt good. I mean, I got relief. I really did. So I waited until the next Tuesday afternoon at 2 o'clock, and I called Sonny at work. Now, here's a concept. Sonny was sober so long that when he went to work, he worked. Okay? Separate concepts, going to work and working. Got it? Like having a sponsor, being sponsored, not necessarily the same thing.
You got it? Okay. So I said, Sonny, it's Scott, and he said, are you okay? I know now, and I said, no, Sonny, I'm not. My butt's on fire. He would have dropped everything. I know he would have. I said, yeah, I'm okay. He said, well, I'm at work, and I'm really busy. You're checked in. Call me another time. I said, okay. So I waited a couple more days and called him at 2 o'clock in the afternoon at work.
Figured it out. And in the meantime, I see this other guy in these meetings, and his lights are on. You know what I mean? His lights are on. And I wanted to feel like he looked. And I said, would you sponsor me? And he said, do you already have a sponsor? And I said, yes. And he said, tell him he's fired, and I will sponsor you. What an order. I can't go through with it. And I thought this is not the kind of thing you could possibly do on the phone.
And the only meeting I was seeing Sonny at was a Friday night at Oak Hill. So I had to wait until then. And I went to the Oak Hill meeting that Friday night with heavy heart to devastate this man. Okay, if you're new and you didn't think that was funny, listen up now. Okay, it's getting important. It's important to devastate Sonny's life by telling him that he was not going to continue to sponsor the budding St. Scott.
And he got there early and made the coffee, and I ran up to him about 7 o'clock. And I thought if I don't do it right away, I'm going to chicken out. I said, Sonny, I've asked somebody else to sponsor me. And he said, good, who? That was not the response I was expecting. And I said, well, Jerry Crow. And he said, oh, wonderful. He's done the 12 steps. He knows the book. He can coach you through the work.
And then he said something I didn't understand for a year and a half. He said, this wasn't working for me either. Huh? Oh, sponsorship is a two-way street. All right, I didn't get that until I started sponsoring. Because you all heard what I said to the girls from the treatment center about how we need to and all that stuff. And then he said, this wasn't working for me either. Don't lose my number.
I'll stay in touch, but I've got to go make the coffee. And so that was how I devastated Sonny's life. And so I went back to Jerry, and I said, okay. I fired him. And he said, okay, I'll sponsor you my way. And I said, what does that mean exactly? And he said, and I'll be saying this again, Sonny. It's the most important thing I brought to you. He said, you are too sick to stay sober under the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous.
You will need the program also. And I didn't know what he was talking about. He gave me that definition on page 59, the 12 steps. And he said, you're going to have to work the steps. And I told him, as I said before, I don't want to. And he said, it's okay as long as you do it. And that's where we began. And I'll tell some more of the story later on. But I learned so much from him. He changed my life.
I think he saved my life. And I'll save that story for Sunday too. And I moved on. I have found it necessary. I'm on my sixth sponsor now. And I think if my sponsorship relationship is not enhancing my spiritual growth, I have to take a look at it. I have to take a look at it. And I think that's probably the only measuring stick on that. If somebody has another one, I'd certainly love to hear it. But is it enhancing my spiritual growth is a great question.
So I've found it necessary to move on a couple of times. And I had a sponsor show me how to drop a sponsor. And I told you that stuff about the sixth step that my character defects are all self-centered and God in the center and all that stuff. That's a gift from my fourth sponsor who I had to drop.
[00:10:02]
He's the most spiritual man I ever expect to know. But he was unavailable. I was in the middle of a divorce. And I just couldn't get him. I called him on a Friday afternoon to tell him I'd asked another man to sponsor me. And I left a message on his machine. And it was the following Tuesday afternoon when he got back to me. And I'm not saying anything negative about him. His life was so full, he didn't have time to give me what I needed at that point.
And I moved on from the most spiritual man I ever expect to meet. And the way I moved on was I said, thank you. Thank you for all the time you've spent with me. Thank you for all you've given me. Thank you for all I've learned. Thank you. It's only fair for me to tell you that I've asked someone else to sponsor me. And if he had asked me any questions, I would have answered them. He didn't. I think he knew why.
And I was dropped twice in 2002, once by a man I'm still very close to. He was sober 12 years and one that's sober three. Because I'm out of town so much, they felt that they needed more than what I could give them. And they go with my blessing. And I think if I ever get dropped by somebody and I'm angry about it, I'm probably in trouble and didn't know it. Because it means my ego is tied up in what's going on here.
And I tell people if you need to move on, what you do is you thank them. Thank them profusely and thank them. And if they become angry with you, the one thing you'll know for sure is that you're moving on is the right thing for you to do. So that's one of the things that I learned from a fellow named Don Roy who's now gone. He's my immediate past sponsor. And he died when I was only sober about 11 years, a little under 11.
And I needed a sponsor. I mean, I guarantee you a little under 11 years ain't enough to be out loose. No way. And the five sponsors I had at that point were the most unusual group of men. I mean, you would never put them together. And I thought, I mean, I know I need a sponsor. And, I mean, Don had been terminal for a long time, but I'm so brain damaged, I'm not even looking for my next one. And I'm figuring he's going to live forever.
Talk about a guy that carried the message. And so I asked myself this question. What were the common characteristics that these five men had? Because they were so different. But what were their common characteristics? I figure if I can figure out what those are, I'll know what I'm looking for. And here they are. They were all sober men. Men, right? I don't sponsor women. I don't have women to sponsor.
I don't have women sponsors. No, you do what you need to do. There's just me. And the reason is because I have not seen an unattractive woman since the summer I turned 12 years old. You all look great to me. If any of you girls have low self-esteem, come ask me how you look. I'll tell you. You look great. Okay. I don't need to get confused about what's going on here. So it's got to be a sober man who has worked the 12 steps.
They say at my home group you can't anymore give away something you ain't got, then you can come back from somewhere you ain't been. And his first job is to make sure my step work is solid if I've been around for a while or to take me through the steps if I've never been. All right? Sober man who's done the steps who has a sponsor himself. Hopefully it means he's surrendered. Definitely it means when I bring him the question he can't answer, we have a plan.
It's good to have a plan. It's got to be somebody who will tell me the truth when I don't want to hear it. I have a fellow I used to drink with, got sober four years ago, and he called me from treatment. He said, Would you sponsor me? And I said, I'd be honored to sponsor you. And we're not friends starting right now because I'm going to give you suggestions and you better take them as orders. And when you've got your brand-new, shiny five-year chip in your pocket, we'll talk about being friends.
He's coming up on five years. We'll see what happens. I don't think he's going to want to be friends because his sponsor relationship has been too powerful for both of us. He's got other friends. He needs a sponsor. So it's got to be somebody who will tell me the truth when I don't want to hear it. It's got to be somebody who is active in service work. It is my experience that the winners are all doing something to give it back.
I hear this attitude of gratitude, and I'm not here to argue with it. My sponsor told me that gratitude was not an attitude, it was action. Gratitude is show up early and set up the chairs and make the coffee. Gratitude is serve your home group as GSR or treasurer or secretary. Gratitude is stay after the meeting, put the chairs away. Gratitude is take the meeting into the insane asylum, the jail, the prison, the treatment center.
Gratitude is go down to central office and answer the phones that sweep up. Gratitude is do something so that maybe somebody else will get this thing. You want to do something that will light you up like Chinese New Year's? Find a member of our fellowship that's in the hospital and grab two other people and take a meeting in that hospital room and see what you get. Wow. Yeah. The winners are all doing something to give it back.
The sixth and, I think, for me, the most important characteristic. I'm going to show off now. Page 132 in the text, in the dead center of the page, that would be 132 in the text and the dead center of the page that would be
[00:15:00]
16 lines from the top and bottom and two words in from both margins Okay, we happen to know where this one is. Where it says we absolutely insist on enjoying life. I would not have a sponsor that wasn't laughing. If you ever meet Ice Cream Steve, one thing you'll know for sure is he's having a good time. Alright? Is that why you drank? Huh? To have a good time? Well, if you're new, maybe you ought to have a sponsor that's having a good time sobering then you won't have to figure out how.
Huh? Maybe that trail's already been blazed and you just need somebody to hold your hand while you walk it. I wouldn't have a sponsor that wasn't having a good time. Now he cries some. He gets hurt. Hard things happen. We saw that guarantee on pages 14 and 15. Alright? That happens. But by and large, people in my experience who are really living this thing, laugh a lot. I believe laughter is the sound effect of recovery. Don't you?
Isn't that your experience with it? Okay. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps. One result. I'm going to talk a little bit about how I sponsor. I'm going to do some more reading from the book. I think my first responsibility as a sponsor is to love them. I'm told that God is love and when I give love, I give God. It is the highest gift. That is my first responsibility. My second responsibility is to coach them through these 12 steps by assignment. I am today sponsored by assignment.
I sponsor by assignment. And I take them through the work at a pace that I set based on what I know about their lives. And I'm going to tell you what my current assignment is, by the way. My assignment is to spread the joy. And the ice cream man was serious when he gave me that assignment. That's been my assignment for about four years. That's what I'm here to do. That's my job. I was given a gift on Christmas Day a few years ago. We ran out of milk. And I walked into a little convenience store about noon.
I grabbed a gallon of milk. I mean, I'm just on the fly. And I was given a gift. And the gift I was given is that my heart saw the human being, the person, standing behind the counter on Christmas Day working for minimum wage so that I could buy a gallon of milk. And I was given the gift. And the gift was that this part of me saw that part of him. And I said to him, thank you for working on Christmas Day.
I bet there's someplace you'd rather be. But my family ran out of milk. And if you hadn't come to work today, I couldn't buy it. I really appreciate you being here. It moves me now to retell it. And it moved me then when I had the privilege of doing it. And it moved him. I don't know that I've ever thanked anybody enough. And I'm really careful. And especially on the weekends, if I buy groceries or gasoline or something, I always say, thanks for working on the weekend.
I bet there's someplace you'd rather be. But I get to do this today, and I thank you for coming in. Get your Big Mac and fries in your bag, and before you turn your back on the counter, say, thanks very much. And then lean around and say, hey, in the kitchen, thanks for making my lunch. You guys make a great burger here. Thanks, I appreciate you. And see what happens to you. I don't know what it does to them, but it lights me up every time.
That, to me, is in part what gratitude is. It's those kinds of actions. Anyway, I coach them through the 12 steps. I insist on that. I cheer for their growth. And I'll handle their small problems, you know, the stuff that comes along, as long as they're doing the assignments. If they're not doing the assignments, which will take them to a spiritual experience that this book promised as the result of these steps, if they're doing the assignments, we're on the way to a permanent solution. If they're not doing the assignments, I'm not helping them because they're not letting me.
So I'll handle the small stuff while we're doing that. And I'm going to come to this piece in a minute. I cheer for their growth. And one of my favorite times to cheer for their growth is when they come to me and say they lied to me. I told you I went to seven meetings last week, and I only went to five. And I would say, all right, fantastic, congratulations. I think a sponsor needs to keep them off center just a little bit, you know, keep them a little off balance. And I'd say, what are you telling them?
I'd say, man, man, you have grown so much spiritually that you can't live with lying to me. Congratulations. Wow, what a change that is. I mean, we used to lie for a living, right? And now you can't live with that little lie. What a wonderful job you're doing. I'm so proud of you. Isn't that great? Now, don't do things that you have to lie about, right? That's the lesson in that. I knew he was going to lie to me the day before I met him, right?
He's an alcoholic, of course he's going to lie to me. That hurt me that he went to five meetings instead of seven? I don't think so. He needs for me to cheer for him. And I always promise, I say, I will cheer for you. And you don't have to believe it, because you believe I believe it, because I will not fake that, because I think I can kill you doing that. I only cheer when I see growth, and that's growth.
I read that in page 23, once in a while he might tell the truth.
[00:20:02]
Well, okay, I caught him telling the truth. Truth is, he lied. Well, all right. Well, way to go. Way to go. I got a little problem with that myself, okay? All right. I do not manage their lives. Step one, section B says my life's unmanageable. If I can't manage mine, I certainly can't manage his. One of the boys I sponsor has been offered a job in Reno. Do I know if he needs to move to Reno? How would I know? Of course not, I don't know.
I don't know if he needs to get married, move to Reno, buy a dog. How would I know? What I do, though, is I listen to what he has to say, and I explore options with him. Bring me a problem. I want to hear the word today, because that's going to be part of the answer. Let's make it part of the problem. We'll get to the answer a lot faster. Today word's magic. I get a new guy. I want him to write down today on about five sheets of paper.
I want one on the mirror where he shaves, one in the underwear drawer, one in the sock drawer, one on the dashboard of the car, one on the desk at work, and one in your money. And I want you saying, and thinking, and praying the word today as much as you can. One day at a time, in part, means be here. Wherever your body is, let your mind be there. Let's be here today. But I don't manage their lives, but I do like to list options with them.
And when they're angry with somebody, something's going tough, I like to list this option. Well, you could get a 12-gauge shotgun, blow his head off. I say that. It's an option. I think it's a poor one. And I think that. Well, good. I'm glad you're still with me. But I think if we talk about that option, it decreases the chances that he will choose it. So let's lay it out. That's an option. Typically, he only sees one or two.
I probably see five or six. And typically, the five I, six I see, with that exception, with the shotguns an exception, are generally better choices than what he has. His choices are either suicide or homicide. I see some middle ground. And so I like to lay out the options that I see. And unless he's choosing a shotgun-type option, I'll let him go. But I want to explore options with him. The problem bores me to death.
I will tell you that I listened to the problem once. The men that I sponsor would all raise their hands right now and disagree. There's no way to tell Scott the problem once. He ain't listened to the whole problem. I don't want to hear about the problem. I'll stay with you all night and talk about solutions. But the problem bores me. So let's get to the solutions. I like to list the options. And I like to check whatever options he's looking at against the principles of this program.
Is the option he's choosing in violation of the principles? Because if it's not, I'm out of the game. This is his lesson. He and God need to work that out. One day at a time, I think, is the part of the answer to every question I've ever been brought in sponsorship. We always talk about one day at a time. I talk more about that and about sponsorship than everything else with the men that I sponsor.
I get their permission to talk to my sponsor about them in detail. That's one of the first things I extract from them. It's one of the things I ask the men that I sponsor to get from the men that they sponsor. Get his permission to talk to me so we can have this channel open. Because if you don't have his permission to talk about this, we're not talking about it. Because we're going to honor that. I like to talk about anonymity.
I'm going to tell you one of my favorite stories. I had an experience. Anonymity is the reason I put my last name on this badge. I just had my last initial. But in keeping with our tradition of anonymity, I have put my last name on my badge. If that sounds crazy to you, I'd like to recommend the pamphlet Understanding Anonymity. I was amazed before I was halfway through. I think you'll find it very interesting reading.
But I like to talk about anonymity because it's not about hiding. It is in large measure about doing something good and not getting caught. That's part of what anonymity is about. And I had an experience a number of years ago where I was able to do something nice for somebody and not get caught. And what happened was I was given a gift. And the gift was it was like there was a piece of sunshine about the size of a golf ball that lodged itself in my chest.
I see some people that know what I'm talking about. And I could think about what I'd done any time. And this thing would glow and send light throughout my whole body. I'm not trying to be poetic. That is precisely what happened. And I didn't tell a soul. And day or night, no matter what was going on, I could just think about what I'd done and this thing would make me glow. And I was able to stay in that for about six months.
But see, I'm into the applause. And so I told somebody. And that piece of sunshine came out my mouth with the story. It's not in here now. And I'm going to tell you what it was. I took a small boy fishing. He was about eight years old and nobody in his family fished. And I met him in a city park. And he was really wanting to try it. And his mom gave permission. And I put him in the front of a canoe.
And we floated the Buffalo River.
[00:25:01]
Light spinning tackle for small mouth. He caught a four-pound smallmouth. He got my fish. I mean, it was just one of those days. And we floated the river for about eight or 10 hours, I guess. And it was just a glorious. I tell people there's probably a place in heaven almost as beautiful as the Buffalo River in Tennessee. And I believe there may be. And about 45 minutes or an hour from the takeout, and there's no place in this river for the next half a mile to get out.
All of a sudden, the sky blackened. And I mean, it's fixing to come. I can smell that first gust of rain. And we come down a run. And I did what canoers call eddy out. There's a little backwater. And I was able to parallel park it up under some trees. Now inside, I am just about to give God a piece of my mind. I mean, here St. Scott has taken this boy out. He caught my fish. I'm being a good guy. And you would send raindrops the size of my thumb a quarter of an inch apart.
It isn't right. I'm about to give God a piece of my mind. When this magnificent little boy looks over his shoulder at me and he says, is it OK to fish here? I forget that. I forget that. That's the question I'm supposed to ask when the sky is blackened and my life isn't going the way I think it should. That's the question I'm supposed to take to my father. Is it OK to fish here? Because that's my job.
I have a new employer, and I forget that. I forget that. That was such a gift to me. And I know people who are full of those little pieces of sunshine. And if you haven't tried one, sneak around somewhere and do something really nice for somebody, and don't get caught. See what happens. That's a little bit about, for me, what anonymity is about. That's what I try to work with, with the guys that I sponsor.
Each time I have contact with them on the phone or in person, I pray. And I ask God to flow through me, to make me perfect for this time, that I might be an open channel for the two of them. I get them active in service work. The majority of the men that I sponsor are taking meetings into jails and prisons. That's what most of us do. I have forbidden two of the men that I sponsor to take meetings into jails and prisons.
And I have good reasons. If somebody cares later, I'll be glad to tell you. They are active doing other things. We've got plenty of other stuff to do. So I'm not just hung up on that. But I think it's important to be going out of your way to try to carry this message, because that's when we get the gifts. I come out of those jails a foot off the ground with tears running down my face. If you're into jail things, see me later.
I will tell you some spectacular stuff. We've almost got the keys to one of the jails. I mean, we are really, really having a ball there. And then I coach them through sponsoring. And I like them to start sponsoring when they're in about the middle of the ninth step, because that's part of the motivation to keep them going. They start sponsoring somebody and look over their shoulder and realize he's gaining on them.
They haven't finished nine. Sometimes that will give them that little goose that they need to get them on and through the work. That's one of those little tricky sponsor things. And thank you, L.. And I always tell them, because they always say I'm not ready. I say, no, no, no, no, I'm final authority on that. You're ready. Because the first thing, you're going to get his permission to talk to me.
And what I'm going to do is I'm going to coach you through sponsoring him. I am not going to let you risk somebody else's life. I'm not. What I'm going to do is I'm going to help you take him through this work. You will learn so much by sponsoring somebody through this work. I've learned stuff here today. Believe me. There are things in it. They rewrote the book again. I hope I can find it again. But there's a couple of rewrites in this thing.
I call it wet ink. I'm afraid to touch it. It might smudge, because I know it was not there. But anyway, I coach them through sponsoring. I have something I started two years ago. And that's that I get the men that I sponsor together once a month. We do a potluck. We get to the house around 5, 5.30, and just hang out. Now, I've got five guys I've been sponsoring for over 15 years. So we hang out together.
I sponsor a lot of guys. But they've got 10-year chips. And they've been through the steps three or four times. And they're active in the prison. And they're sponsoring eight or 10 guys themselves. They don't require a lot of work. There's just not much to it, OK, if you get them into the deal. And so we do a potluck. And we do a big book study. And we dink around and play and have fun from 5 to about 7.
We do a big book study from 7 to 9 with a 10-minute break in the middle for the two guys I sponsor that are still smoking. And so far, in 25 meetings, we're already all the way to page 124, because we go to depth, because these guys are reading two pages a day. That's one of my requirements. You will read two pages a day in the big book every day. We read the book four times a year like that. You do that for 15 or 20 years, and you'll see.
And somebody will say, well, that reminds me of something on page 84. Well, great, let's take a look at that.
[00:30:03]
And then we'll read that and talk about it. Somebody will say, well, that reminds me of something on 103. Well, great, let's have a look at that. And so, I mean, page 63 took us like three hours to do one page. Our purpose is to get together in fellowship and explore this work and figure out better ways to carry this message. So it doesn't matter what pace we're moving at. It doesn't matter at all.
I want to talk about something that's very controversial. And fortunately enough, I'm working out of the book on it. We're going to begin on page 95. I'm going to read a piece on 95. I'm going to read a piece on 96. Some of the hardest stuff there is I'm going to read what the book says and I'm going to tell you my experience with it. I'm not interested in your solution if he expects you only to act as a banker for his financial difficulties or a nurse for his sprees.
You may have to drop him until he changes his mind. This he may do after he gets hurt some more. That's the middle paragraph on 95. This is the top of 96. Do not be discouraged if your prospect does not respond at once. Search out another alcoholic and try again. You are sure to find someone desperate enough to accept with eagerness what you offer. You will find it a waste of time to keep chasing a man who cannot or will not work with you.
If you leave such a person alone, he may soon become convinced that he cannot recover by himself. To spend too much time in any one situation is to deny some other alcoholic an opportunity to live and be happy. The book is very clear. I only know one thing. I know that people who do work take the 12 steps. In other words, get into the program, stay active, carrying the message, all stay sober. I've been sober for 18 and a half years. I haven't seen it yet. And I know the people that don't, don't.
And it's just that simple. When I agree to sponsor somebody, I make sure they understand that what we're going to do is these 12 steps at the pace that I'm going to set. I'm willing to negotiate about it, but I'm going to set the pace. I'm going to be final authority. That's what we're going to do. And I watch the light come on in their eyes. And I watch them carry this message. And it is just a huge joy for me to do that.
When I was sober five years, this guy that gave me that information about six and seven, I called him one day and I was talking about this guy I'm trying to sponsor. And he says, I want you to drop him. I said, come on, Mike, I'm serious. Now he says, no, I'm serious. I want you to drop him. I would rather have you on the golf course than working with this guy. It would be better for your program. I said, what are you talking about? And he said, what are you asking him to do that he's not doing?
Well, this is roughly the list. It was call his parole officer, look for a job, go to a meeting every day, open and close his days on 86 and 87 and start his fourth step. And he said, how much of that is he doing? I said, well, none. He said, you are not his sponsor. He is. You are his fire chief. All right. And when his tail feathers are ablaze, he calls you. He siphons off some of your serenity and puts out his fire and goes right back to doing it his way.
And you are not helping him. You are not helping him. And then he said, could you stay sober on the program he's working? And I said, I don't think so. And he said, can you? He said, could you stay sober on his program? I said, I don't think so. He said, can he? And I said, I don't think so. He said, you are probably right. And when he drinks again, you're going to need to be able to sleep knowing that you told him the truth, because he could die or kill somebody else or go to prison for a long period of time.
And you are going to have to sleep knowing that you told him the truth. There is another reason. It's also for him. It is because when I go to drop him, I always go with a heavy heart and say, you are not allowing me to sponsor you. I'm cosigning a lie if I let you think you're sponsored. And I also need to make sure that you understand that you are not in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, and you have never been. You've been in the fellowship.
And I've been trying to get you into the program, and you won't go. So I want to make sure that you know that you're not in the program of AA. And the reason I'm doing that is so that the next time he wakes up in a jail cell in a pool of his own blood and vomit, that he will have three options. And the options are to continue to live that way, to commit suicide, or to try the program of Alcoholics Anonymous knowing he has not tried it because I told him.
I must tell him the truth, for if I don't, I've signed his death warrant. I've signed his death warrant. I have coached every man that I've sponsored through the process of dropping someone who would not allow them to coach him through those 12 steps. And I'm not bragging. We are much in demand. There aren't many guys I'm sponsoring that could take a new one or two right now. We're full. We're much in demand. And we've got winners all over the place.
What we're looking for is people who are willing to do this work, for we will see the light come on in their eyes, and they'll be on the jail team when they get their one-year chip, and they'll be carrying meetings into the jails, and they'll be sponsoring people. And if they won't allow us to coach them through the work, we are not helping them.
[00:35:02]
We're lying to them. We've had to stop that. I think it's one of the most important things that we do. And when I go to drop a guy, I'm hoping he's going to say, because this happened to me this past year, I'm hoping he's going to say, No, don't drop me. I'll do what you say. And I'm going to say, Great. Wonderful. Here's today's assignment. I want you to read these four pages in the big book. I want you to look up at least two words on every page.
I want you to call me at 815 tonight, and let's talk about the words you looked up. Don't tell me, buddy. Show me. You start showing me, I'm working with you. That's what I want you. I want him to say, No, don't drop me. I'll do it. That's what I'm hoping for, because he's got his life bet here, and I know it better than he does. I've been to too many funerals of nice people just like you and me who wouldn't do this work.
That's what I'm hoping he's going to say. And if he says, Okay, I'll get somebody else or whatever, and he buzzes off, that's fine. If he comes back, I'll take him. If I can't take him, I'll make sure he gets a real sponsor who's done this work. I'll make it as easy as I can for him to come back. I've got one guy I have lost count on how many times I've taken him back, and I'm taking him next time.
He says, Now, look, I know I didn't last time, but I'm really serious this time. I'm a hurting unit, and I couldn't be more serious now. Please, please, if you will sponsor me, I'll do anything you say. I really will say, Okay, here's today's assignment, and here's what time I want you to call me tonight. And he don't call. And I'm taking him next time, because I'm not going to be the guy that said no the time he meant it.
No, sir, that's not what I'm talking about. But it has to be my way. I can't sponsor him his way. If his way worked, he wouldn't have asked me to sponsor him. I only know one thing. I have the privilege today of sponsoring a guy that has more time than I do. I've had that experience more than once. Now, I think, you know, in the six months to a year, two or three years, that's maybe not a very good idea.
The first time it happened to me, I was sober eight years, and a guy with 10 asked me to sponsor him. And I've had the experience a couple of times recently of men with more time than I have. And what I say to them is this. I want you to know that I very, very much honor your period of sobriety, and that this is the last time we're going to talk about that. Because you have asked me to sponsor you, and I believe you need to be sponsored.
And I only know one thing to do. And I'm going to make suggestions, and you're going to need to take them as orders. You need to start on page 11. You need to read at least two pages a day. Now, if somebody's been around for a while, I'll let them move a lot faster. But I only know one thing to do. I'm going to take them through this work. The only way I know to find out if his step work is solid is to take him through the work myself, and that's what I do.
And I get to see the light come on in his eyes. And I honor the period of sobriety, but only in here, because he doesn't need to hear that. That's not good for him. That's not healthy. Because if your sponsor has to have more time than you do, then isn't there, by definition, one guy and one gal in AA that can't have a sponsor? Well, then I don't believe it. Then I don't believe it. But if you're new, if you're in treatment, and you and your roommate are planning to sponsor each other, please see me after this meeting.
So not only do we need the experience and the step work, but the sober living experiences are worth so much. So it needs to be somebody that's got a solid program, and it needs to be easy to change. I look forward to being dropped again. I have a goal for the men that I sponsor. I have a goal, and my goal is that they would outgrow me spiritually. I can't think of another worthy goal. If I can take somebody as far as I can take them, and they can go to somebody else and go further, isn't that a total success?
That's my goal. I can't think of another one that's worthy. So that's what I'm trying to do. I've had the experience a couple of years ago. I started sponsoring two new guys and discovered they were on, I almost said the name of it, a popular medication among the medical community when they treat our drug deficiencies instead of our alcoholism. And I'm not a licensed medical guy, and I want to just share with you what I do in that case.
The first thing I do is I say, okay, you're on Prozac. Well, this happens to be the popular one. I go all the way back to Valium and the things they've been curing alcoholism with. And I say, here's what I want you to do. I want you to go to the person who did the prescribing for you and give them an accurate drug and alcohol history which they do not have. We're going to begin there. Once you have done that, if they do not taper you off of this stuff, I want you then to go to an MD that I'm going to name.
I don't have to tell them this. Happens to be sober about 12 years. And I want you to tell him your story. And if he leaves you on that stuff, this conversation is over.
[00:40:03]
If any of those people want you tapered off and you don't, I can't work with you. And that takes me completely out of the judgment business. And that's working well for me. And I have yet to have to get anybody all the way to the MD. Because the psychiatrist, psychologist, whoever is doing the prescribing, they didn't have any idea that this guy was smoking five joints a day and drinking a quart of scotch.
Right? They had no idea. So that's been working for me. I personally do not take check-in calls after 8 o'clock at night. I'm easy to find during the day. I'm in my office. I can take a lot of time off. And my family time is from 8 at night to late in the morning. I take emergencies. I encourage them. If it's an emergency, call. If you're not sure if it's an emergency, it is. Call. Because I'd rather take the really didn't turn out to be an emergency call at 3 in the morning than have that turn into a real problem.
So please feel free to call. But don't call me at 11 o'clock at night to check in and tell me you're doing okay. I don't want to hear that. That's my family's time. You can catch me at another time. I have several men that I sponsor that I schedule telephone appointments with. We're both busy. We've got a lot going on. We book appointments and we talk on the phone. Bill Wilson said we go on 12-step calls not because they are alcoholic but because we are.
I sponsor not because they are alcoholic but because I am. It's part of my program. I have this tremendous need to give this thing, a huge need to try to pass this thing on. What I've been given is large and it's under pressure and it's growing. And if I don't have someone to give it to, I think I get stained inside. I'm diminished if I don't do that. So if you're new here, let me tell you that we need to sponsor you.
We need to sponsor you pretty bad. Does anybody have a question at this point? I've really kicked over the anthill. I know I did. No? Okay. Let me cover a couple of other little things just for fun. I'm going to brag a little bit on my home group just because I've got a couple of minutes left here. I'm a member of the Backroom Group in Nashville, and I hope you think you're in the best group in the free world.
I really hope you do. But you're not because I don't recognize you. Let me tell you about my group. Let me tell you about my group. My group has taken about 50 meetings a month into jails and prisons. We've got 80 members. Nobody is doing more than four. We do a picnic every summer, and we do our annual canoe float and water gun fight in July or August. Now, for those of you who are new and you're thinking water gun, you've forgotten where you are.
I think, water gun. Ms. Linda and I won that this year. She had a garage sale, found a water gun that had a hose and went right down into the water bucket. Of course, now we're in canoes, so she's just right into the river, shoots a stream the size of my thumb all the way over to L. here accurately. We wore them out, baby. I just paddled, and she wore them out. It was great. And we eat watermelons halfway through this four-mile float, and then we go to somebody's house and have a potluck and a discussion meeting.
And the newcomers get to see us having fun. And one of them said that. These two guys in a halfway house had to go on scholarship. We've got a tremendous number of anonymous donors in my home group. My home group is funding about $600 a month worth of big books into the jail, of which about 150 of that comes out of the basket per what our group has decided. The rest of it is anonymous donors. You give them a phone call, and they say, we need a case of books for the jail.
And they say, okay. And it appears. We've got people doing that. You know, there is no 13th tradition that says put $1 in the basket. I got sober in the summer of 84. Cigarettes were about 50 cents a pack, and it was customary to put $1 in the basket. I quit smoking in the summer of 85, so I'm not sure what they are today, but I know it's six times that. And it still seems to be the custom to put $1 in the basket.
You might think about that. AA World Services won't take more than $2,500 from you. That's the most. And I wonder why they had to set an upper limit. It's because some people were trying to send too much. That's why. And if you don't include a little note saying you're an AA member, they'll send it back. My AA central office in Nashville is the same way. $2,500 is the most you can send them. They won't take any more.
And you better include a little note, make sure they know who you are, because they'll send it back. We're self-supporting through our own contributions, not fundraisers. Contributions. You might think about that next time the basket comes by. Anonymity is about giving without getting caught. Fold a 20 up in a 1 and drop it. If you're in a position, fold a 100. See what happens.
[00:45:02]
We do a lot of fun stuff in my group. We do an annual Games Day. On New Year's Day, we carry a meeting into a treatment center. We've done it 16 years in a row. The reason we know that is because Nick's carrying a 16-year chip because we got him in our first one. On New Year's Day this year, 80 of us showed up at Cumberland Heights. They had given us eight rooms. They had the patients divided up, you know, Bill and Ethel in room number one, Fred and Sally in room number two kind of thing.
We had eight chair people fully briefed. We're going to talk about early recovery, what we did right, what we did wrong, what we think you need to know. I chaired one of the meetings. I told the people in the room that we're going to have what we call a modified speaker meeting. What that means is we are going to talk. You patients are going to have the chance to ask a very short question that you're not sharing here because we want to take it off the table.
When I was new, if I sat in a discussion meeting, I thought about what I was going to say from the time they set the topic until my turn came, if it came. And then after my turn, I spent the rest of the meeting patting myself on the back of how brilliant I was or editing and wishing I'd said it some other way. And I didn't hear what anybody else ever said. Can I see the hands of the people who can relate to that?
Thank you very much. And so when we carry a meeting into a treatment center, we take that right off the table. You are not going to share. If you have a question at the end, we'll take it if it's short. That's it. For those of us from the back room group, and I figured out the time, we've got five minutes apiece. At four minutes, I'm going to hold up one finger. At five minutes, I'm going to hold up my watch.
At five minutes and 15 seconds, I'm going to interrupt you because if I don't, the last three people don't get to share. And we talk about early recovery and what we think they need to know, what was important to us. We had time left over, so we had a lightning round at the end. We went around and everybody said, all right, you've got one minute to tell them one thing, everybody. We came around the room.
And we lean on sponsorship. And we had people who got sponsors. We've got people showing up at my home group now that we got on New Year's Day this year and last year and the year before, carrying the message. What a great way to start the year. We get there at 10 o'clock. We get there at 9.30. We have a meeting from 10 until 11.30. We go to somebody's house and have a potluck and hang out together, watch the ball games on TV and there's a bridge game and whatever.
What a great way to start the year. Try that at your home group if you're looking for something fun. It's just absolutely a ball. For those who are young, I heard one of my mentors talking to a girl who was 18 years old and he said, you must stop being a young person in AA. Stop it and just be a person in AA. Everybody in this room has a reason why they're different. Somebody here is the tallest and somebody's the shortest and somebody's got the most education and somebody's got the least.
Somebody's got the most money and somebody's got the least. Somebody thinks they've done the worst thing anybody's ever done. And everybody here has a reason why they're different. And if we embrace our differences, they will kill us. Stop being a young person in AA. Start being a person in AA. I have the privilege of sponsoring a man who is 18 years old who's sober 18 months. He got sober at 16 and a half.
He has done the work and he's carrying the message and he and three other guys are now carrying a meeting into one of the jails to inmates who are under 22 years old. Specialty meeting just for them. Dynamite. And that's part of the message they're carrying in there. I'll be 60 on my next birthday and this 18 year old calls me by my first name and he's comfortable with it and so am I. Where else could you go and get that?
And I get to see the world through his eyes. He said something that was one of the most dramatic things I've ever heard and I'd love to quote him. He said, AA gave me my future back. Wow. That was James. AA gave me my future back. Is that what happened to you? That's what happened to me. I think that's part of why I have such a passion for it. My friend Steve tells a story of the group's perennial slipper.
Called him one Sunday afternoon. He said, look, I know you've sponsored me twice before and everybody has sponsored me, but I'm really serious this time. I want to get sober. I'm dying. Please, would you help me? Will you sponsor me? I'll do anything you say. And Steve says, sure. Okay. I'll help you. Why don't you come on over? And the guy says, right now? Leave that kind of under for what it's worth category.
I would like to say one more thing and then I think I'm going to let this thing go. Talking about sponsorship one more time. The Buddhists have a spectacular saying. They say the only way to get into heaven is to bring somebody with you. That's in part what sponsorship is about. This is page 164 in the text. Still you may say, but I will not have contact, have the benefit of contact with you who write this book.
We cannot be sure. God will determine that. So you must remember that your real reliance is always upon him. He will show you how to create the fellowship you crave. Our book is meant to be suggestive only.
[00:50:00]
We realize we know only a little. God will constantly disclose more to you and to us. Ask him in your morning meditation what you can do each day for the man who is still sick. The answers will come if your own house is in order. But obviously you cannot transmit something you haven't got. See to it that your relationship with him is right and great events will come to pass for you and countless others.
This is the great fact. Abandon yourself to God as you understand God. Admit your fault to him and to your fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past. Give freely of what you find and join us. We shall be with you in the fellowship of the Spirit. You will surely meet some of us as you trudge the road of happy destiny. May God bless you and keep you until then. I want to thank you for inviting your God to this thing.
I want to thank you for your attention. I want to thank the God of my limited understanding. I ask for an open heart up here. Rarely has it been more open than this. I have received the gift today of going out of my way. Maybe somebody else would get this thing. It has touched me deeply. I got some more of these how to cry things up here if somebody needs one. I'm going to be here all weekend. I came to talk to individuals.
If you want to talk alone, I'd love to. I say I'm not one of the grand wizards, but I'll sure be glad to talk if somebody wants to talk, if somebody has a question. Does anybody have anything else that we need to do before we close this? I thank you so deeply. You all have touched me. I'd like to form up. I'd like to have a moment of silence. I'd like to whisper the Lord's Prayer. There's something very gentle about that.
If you need to write a letter, please come see me. I know you're here. I saw it. Thank you, Scott. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I have been touched deeply. I'd like to have a moment of silence, and I'd like to spend that time to honor those who carried this message to me that are gone. Let's whisper the Lord's Prayer. Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever and ever. Thank y'all so much. God bless.