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Source: DICOBE-00463 – Maxine O – CORNHUSKER RNDP VI – 1983-08-20.mp3 File: dicobe-00463-maxine-o-cornhusker-rndp-vi-1983-08-20.mp3 Duration: 00:44:02
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The things in this program that when you meet somebody in the fellowship you immediately can visit and share and talk and after talking with Max for a while I became aware that a lot of things in our pre-Al-Anon days were a lot alike. It was kind of like playing the game of golf without any lessons. Everything we did was wrong. After visiting with Max for a while I found out this little bit of information that I thought I'd like to share with you. It seems that this airplane pilot was having trouble with the engine on his plane. He was looking for a place to land. He seen these cars down there on the road so he thought he said his plane down there. After he got landed and got out of the plane he walked over to this car that he had seen pull off the road. Here was this lady sticking her head out the window kind of wild-eyed and it was Max and she says mister if you'll just tell me how to get out of here I'll get out of your way. She says my husband's the only person I know of that could start out on the road and end up in the airport runway. Without further ado I give you Max.
Hi I'm Max and I'm a happy member of Al-Anon. I never planned to go to Al-Anon. That was not on my agenda. In fact I didn't realize that our problem had anything to do with drinking. I thought Paul was crazy and so my solution was to try to find him a psychiatrist and he wouldn't go so I thought if I went I could maneuver him into going and he never would go and I ended up going three and a half years. If there are any psychiatrists in the audience I'm not anti-psychiatrist even though it sounds that way. I ended up going to four different ones. Not all at once but I would go to somebody and I would well usually I went to these psychiatrists that didn't talk and I would sit there and after a while I would begin to think of how much money was cost to me so someone had to talk so I would talk and I would always tell them what Paul was doing and what my older daughter was doing and each week I'd go back and give them a new story and they they never said anything you know I just sat there. The first one I went to I didn't like him at all.
Everything I said he laughed and I didn't think the things I was telling him were funny. After I'd gone to him for about six months Paul decided I was such a mess he was going to take me into Westwood which is part of LA and have me hypnotized. Now Paul had tried to hypnotize me one time. We used to go to Las Vegas and he took these courses on hypnosis and I you know I sat in on them and I they were kind of interesting so when he suggested this why I agreed that I would go and when I told the psychiatrist that I was going to this hypnotist he said if you do that don't come back and I was glad because that was my out. I didn't have to go to him anymore and so Paul took me over there to Westwood six Wednesdays and after I I don't think I was ever hypnotized because when Paul tried he decided I should relax and he gave me a mill town and I laid on the couch and went to sleep and so he wouldn't do it anymore and I don't really think I was hypnotized when I went to this fell in Westwood either but he decided that I should see someone in Anaheim because that's where we live. Also the first psychiatrist had me tested and he gave me the Minnesota Multiphasic test maybe some of you have had this and the Rorschach test which is the inkblot test and I felt that I was being tripped because on the Minnesota Multiphasic test which was about 600 questions it seemed to me they would ask a question and then about 10 down they would ask
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the same question only worded a little differently so I was very careful when I took that and the Rorschach test I had heard that had something to do with sex so I was particularly careful with that one and I only saw animals when we got on the program I talked to some alcoholic woman and she had done the same thing anyway when I went back for my results he told me I was very rigid and would never change and I was horrified because I was the only one doing anything about this mess Paul wasn't doing anything anyway like I say I left him and then I went to this other fellow and I don't know maybe I went to him by a year and a half and then I got to feeling better and so I quit and then no time at all I was back where I had been before and then I would start with somebody new I don't know why I did this but I never went back to the same one I usually went into Long Beach we lived in Anaheim because I didn't want to run in anybody I knew but it seemed to me that every time that I started going to someone Paul's the doctor and I worked in the office and every time I got to go on someone he would send his patients there and I you know it really felt a little silly sitting in the psychiatrist's office with Paul's patients coming in and they knew who I was so I would make my appointments very early in the morning and I would leave by back door the last one that I ended up with after I'd gone to him for a while he decided he wanted to see Paul so I talked Paul into going and he went in with me and he went into the doctor's office by himself and stayed in there about five minutes and came out and said I have nothing to say and that was the end of that and a strange thing happened after we were on the program oh I guess maybe five six years Dr. Pursh was in charge of the Navy program there in Long Beach and he asked Paul to be on a panel so we thought it was something for the Navy and it was a dinner meeting and I didn't go and when Paul came home about 11 o'clock he was very excited and said guess who I saw well I had no idea but it turned out they talked he and about four or five Navy doctors talked to the Long Beach Medical Association and he said he noticed this one fella sitting in the front row nodding and smiling and really seemed interested and afterwards he came up to Paul and said remember me and Paul looked at his badge and he said were you at the VA Hospital and this fella said no I was one of your wife's psychiatrists and this was a fellow that I had gotten Paul to go see he was delighted to see Paul you know none of them ever asked me if my husband drank I don't know what they thought I guess they thought he was crazy just like I did because when we got on the program Paul wrote letters to all my psychiatrists and sent them literature and said that he was on AA and I was on Al-Anon and if they'd like to talk to us we'd be glad to talk to them never heard from any of them but he acted like he knew all along that that's what the problem was anyway Paul came home and he said call him up I said I don't want to call him up with 11 o'clock at night so he called information got the telephone number and dialed it and handed me the phone and this sleepy voice came on the phone and I said dr. Pilchman and he said yes and I said my name is Maxine Oliver and my husband Paul said I should call you and he said your husband who and then he said oh you have the wrong dr. Pilchman he said you want the psychiatrist because he thought I was crazy anyway I also went to priests now I didn't go to our parish priest I would usually go to somebody I didn't know and I found out about this chaplain over st.
Joseph's Hospital in Orange and I made an appointment and went over there to see him and I must have spent about three hours with him and he said what he usually did is he would talk to the wife alone and then he would talk to the husband alone and then he would talk to the two of us together now I hadn't told Paul where I was going so when I came home after being gone all that time he wanted to know where I'd been so I told him and he and I said he wants to see you and so he very reluctantly agreed that he would go so I immediately got on
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the phone and called made the appointment for the next day and he went over and he was gone forever and when he came home he was furious and I said are we going to see him together and Paul said no not going back so I waited till the next day and I called the priest and I said what happened and he said your husband is the most stubborn man I've ever seen and that was the whole explanation I never did find out what happened but I found out after we got on the program that this priest was also an alcoholic drinking at the time so no wonder they didn't go along I made a married couples retreat and I went alone no one thought this was strange yeah my husband's a doctor couldn't get away but I really went to talk to the priest and I spent several hours with him and he came to the same conclusion that I did that Paul needed psychiatric care but I didn't know how to get him there so anyway we were we're going along and we we didn't do much talking toward the end and one Sunday morning I was out in the family room showing Paul the rust spots on the floor and all of a sudden he was on the floor having a convulsion now I've never seen anyone have a convulsion before so I got kind of excited and called the doctor on the next block and he finally got there and by that time Paul had awakened and Art decided that he should go in the hospital so I rode in the ambulance with him and when he got to the hospital he wouldn't stay unless I stayed so I stayed overnight with him and the next morning he felt fine and wanted to come home while he was there a neurologist saw him and the neurologist said he wanted to see him in the office and have some tests after he got out of the hospital so I had to drive him over because he couldn't drive because of the convulsion and we walked into this neurologist's office and Paul told him that the only problem was it was the marital problem now I couldn't understand how I could cause him to have a convulsion but if he said so it had to be true I believed I believed everything he said thought he was crazy but if he said it was gospel truth anyway I didn't say anything and we went back he refused to have any of the tests and we went back to live in the way we were 14 months later I was in the living room and Paul was in the bedroom and I heard this noise and I walked back there and there he is on the floor having a convulsion so I sat down on the edge of the bed and I watched him and when he finished I said you've had a convulsion you better go to bed and I hadn't even been down on yet there was I was very confused about what was going on this neurologist had told me that Paul either had a brain tumor or early senility or something else and Paul told me he had a brain tumor I was focused in on that plus the fact that I knew he took pills I didn't know what he took but I would hear him get up at night and take pills and also I like I worked in the office and at that time we had a lot of samples come into the office and I latched on to all the tranquilizers I had them everywhere you know the alcoholic talks about this feeling of impending doom I had that I knew something horrible was going to happen I didn't know what or when but I was going to be prepared
[00:15:00]
And I had tranquilizers everywhere. Also, when I went to this hypnotist, he suggested that maybe Librium would help me. So I sent away and got a thousand. And I only took one a day, you know. And after Paul had his second convulsion, the psychiatrist that was going to explain to me about if you were taking large doses of tranquilizers and you suddenly stopped, you could have a convulsion. And I thought, God, I don't want to have a convulsion.
I didn't want both of us having convulsions. So I quit the tranquilizers, but they disappeared. I guess Paul took them. He'd take anything. And anyway, I didn't tell anybody. I didn't tell a psychiatrist I was taking Librium. I could get anything I wanted other than narcotics because all I'd have to do is go to the drugstore and say it's for the office. And I'm very grateful that I never got hooked on pills.
But I didn't. I have strange reactions to medications. Paul says he can give something for a hundred people and they never have any trouble. And he gives it to me and I have a reaction. And I guess I'm lucky in that respect. Anyway, after that second convulsion, the next morning I got up and I called this neurologist and told him that he'd had another convulsion. And so he suggested that Paul go back to the Mayo Clinic because that was where he had trained.
And it took a month to get this appointment. And I didn't really know whether Paul was going to go or not because one day he'd say he was gone and the next day he'd say, no, he wasn't gone. And so I didn't know until about two days before we left whether he was going to go or not. And I felt this was my last chance to get him medical help because I didn't feel I could talk to any of the doctors we knew because I thought if I told them what was going on, Paul would kill me.
So several doctors in our building had approached me about Paul's changed personality and I agreed, but that's all I would say. I wouldn't discuss it with them. But I'd call this neurologist about everything that was going on because we didn't know him socially. Anyway, finally the time came and we went back to the Mayo Clinic. And I made up my mind I was going to get in and see that neurosurgeon and tell him about Paul taking pills.
And nobody got in to see the doctor unless you were a patient. And when you were a patient, you had a number. And I wasn't a patient and I didn't have a number. And I don't know what I told that gal, but she let me in. And I told the neurosurgeon about the pills. And when Paul went back for his results, they locked him up in the nut ward. Now this had been very important to me that I get in to see that doctor.
But the strange thing about that, after I did it, I just put it out of my mind and I didn't remember that for six years. And then I waited another year before I told Paul because I wasn't sure how he'd take this. I think he often wondered what happened. Anyway, there he was the day before Christmas and he was in the nut ward. And I went over to see him and he wanted out. And he wanted me to take responsibility for him because that's the only way he could sign out.
And I wasn't sure, you know, whether I should do this or not. But he told me that if I didn't agree to take responsibility, he would never speak to me again. So what could I do? I didn't know what a good opportunity that was. So I agreed. He told me he wouldn't drink anymore and he wouldn't take any more pills and I don't know what all. And we got on the plane the next day and had a big fight over whether or not he'd drink the free booze.
I won. He didn't drink, but he wouldn't talk or eat either all the way back to California. And then he got himself a bottle and drank it all. And the next morning, I still wasn't aware that that was the problem. I grew up in a family. My parents died when I was very young. And so I was raised by a grandmother and two uncles lived at home and they were alcoholic. I knew they were alcoholic. But Paul did not fit that picture of what I thought an alcoholic was.
So I just couldn't see that that was the problem. Anyway, the next morning, I was up at four o'clock and I was calling everybody I could think of. I called my brother-in-law back in Ohio and I just called everyone. And finally, it was nine o'clock and I could call this neurologist
[00:20:00]
and tell him what happened. So he said, did I think that Paul would see a local psychiatrist? And I said, well, you know, I don't know because it didn't work before. But anyway, when Paul got up, he agreed that he would go. And the next day, we went over to see this psychiatrist and he talked to Paul for about 45 minutes and talked to me for about 10 minutes and locked him up in the local nut ward.
And I knew he was in the right place. And I would go over, I had an hour that I could go over and see him. And Paul would spend his time locked up in the nut ward writing lists of things for me to do to keep the world running while he was locked up in the nut ward. And every day, I would go over and get my list. I don't have any trouble with the second step. Anyway, one day on the list was to go over to the central office and pick up the big book.
And, you know, I didn't know why. And also, he was, the psychiatrist was having some AA fellow pick him up and take him to AA meetings. And I, you know, I didn't know why he was going to AA. Anyway, I don't, I was a little fuzzy about that time too. One Saturday night, I went over to see Paul. And when I got there, this fellow from AA was there. And Paul introduced us and Frank said, we're going to an AA meeting, would you like to go along?
I didn't have anything else to do. I had heard of AA and I had heard of Al-Anon. In fact, 10 years before we got to the program, I had sent to New York for Al-Anon literature for Paul's patients. I never read it, you know, it didn't pertain to me. Anyway, like I say, but we never knew anybody on the program. So we were in Orange and that's about 25 miles from Laguna. And Frank took us to Laguna and we got in the car with him.
And he was telling us all kinds of personal things. You know, you don't talk to strangers like that. And Paul and I listened to him and he was, he had been broken up with his wife and he was trying to patch it up. And so he was telling us that he had given his wife guitar lessons for Christmas. And then she ran off with a guitar teacher. And I couldn't believe this, you know. And Paul and I didn't say anything.
And when we got to that meeting, we decided we weren't going with him anymore. Anyway, like I say, he took us to this Laguna meeting. It was a large meeting, a couple hundred people. And I looked around that room. I was scared to death I would run into somebody I knew. Luckily we didn't for a year. And then when the meeting started, they turned the lights out and they just had candles. And then I could be comfortable because nobody could see me.
And I was very impressed with that meeting. I felt something in the room. I don't remember anything that was said, but I don't know. There was just something in the room. And they laughed. And I hadn't laughed in a long time. So I really enjoyed the meeting and wanted to go back. I don't think I went to too many meetings when Paul was in the hospital. But after he got out, I went with him. Well, I don't remember how long a period of time it was after this meeting that Frank had this Al-Anon gal call me.
And I didn't like her at all. You know, she called me up a dozen times a day. And I didn't have time to talk to strangers on the phone about Al-Anon, whatever that was. But I did agree that I would go to a meeting with her. So she took me to Laguna. And it took all day. It just took all day. And I worked. I didn't have time to spend the day going to Al-Anon. And I went to three meetings. And I think the third meeting, they asked me to read.
And that was the end. Besides, she told me I shouldn't work for Paul. Now, I realized since the program that that was my security, that job. I didn't get paid, but it was a job. And when she said that, that was the end. I thought, if that's Al-Anon, I want no part of it. So I didn't go back. I continued to go to the AA meetings, though.
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And another thing that I realized now, the reason I could be comfortable in an AA meeting was nothing was expected of me. I didn't have to do anything. I could just go in and sit down and listen. And I had never heard people express themselves that way. And I think by the time we ended up on the program, I was no longer looking for help for Paul. I was listening for me. And I identified a lot with the feelings of the alcoholic.
But I think that's part of being a human being. Although, I did drink with Paul for years, drink for drink. And as he often says, we tried to out-drink one another, and he won by an allergy. Anyway, I continued. Paul would go to one or two meetings a week, whether he needed it or not. And we would always go to Laguna. We couldn't figure out the schedule. And like I say, I really enjoyed these meetings.
And then it wasn't until 10 months later, they had the Southern California Convention in Anaheim. And the convention center was very close to where we lived. And so on Saturday afternoon, I went over to the Al-Anon meeting. I don't know why, because I usually didn't do things alone, and Paul didn't go. And I think for the first time, I heard something. There were four speakers, and the topic was released with love.
And so I listened, and I decided that maybe they did have something, and I would go back. But then I decided that Laguna was too far, and it was hard for me to leave and spend four hours of a Monday going to an Al-Anon meeting, because Monday was always a very busy day in the office. So I decided that I would go to some meetings in Orange. And I went to about six meetings, and I didn't get anything out of that meeting.
And I always tell newcomers now that if they don't like a meeting, try at least ten different ones until you find one you're comfortable in. I think that's very important, because they're all different. They're just like AA meetings, they're different. Anyway, I decided I would go back to Laguna. And I was scared to death, because that was a big meeting. There would be 60, 70 people, and they had tables set up.
And I would go in, try to find a table where they wouldn't notice me, and that was always the table they started at. And, you know, it was like they were speaking a foreign language. I didn't know all these things they were talking about. I felt very stupid, and Paul had told me for years that I was stupid. And I wasn't going to let all these other people know how stupid I was. So I finally decided that I would say, my name is Maxine, and I pass.
And I did that for a year. I think those women thought I was never going to talk. Of course, I never planned to do this, either. I was telling Jean last night how I happened to start to talk. In 1970, we went to the Miami International Convention, and Al-Anon had put out this book, The Best of the Forum. The Forum is like the grapevine for Al-Anon. And I bought it. And up until that time, I'd been around about three years, and Paul had started to talk.
And when people would ask me to talk, I'd say, oh, no, I don't talk. But I read that book, and all through it, it said, or at least it seemed that way to me, it said that it was your responsibility to share with others that others had shared with you. And so I got to feeling a little guilty. And so I thought, well, OK, the next time somebody asks me to talk, I'll do it. And if they don't like me, they don't need to ask me back.
And for a long time, they didn't. But then I could be comfortable. But anyway, I continued to go to the Al-Anon meetings, and also the AA meetings with Paul. And I learned a lot in the AA meetings. I learned how Paul thought, and I certainly didn't understand before. Anyway, I'm glad I did it that way. Because like I say, I learned a lot. And I was fortunate enough to be in a meeting where there must have been at least a dozen people who had had a long time on the program.
And I think some of the meetings I've gone to, if that had been my first meeting, I would have not come back. Because I had this thing about wasting my time. In fact, when I first thought about Al-Anon, the reasons I gave that I didn't want to go to Al-Anon was that, like I said, I didn't want to waste my time. …was that, like I said, I didn't want to waste my time. I didn't have time. I worked, and I didn't like women's clubs.
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And so, you know, I wasn't going to bother with that. But anyway, I'm grateful for Al-Anon now. I wasn't at the time because when I heard these women talk about being grateful and so happy to be on Al-Anon, I wanted to vomit. I just couldn't imagine anybody wanting to be on Al-Anon or AA, even though I enjoyed the meetings. I still haven't figured out why I didn't realize the problem had anything to do with drinking, because when I look back on some of my behavior, it was obvious.
I know when I first came to Al-Anon, when they said, you know, one of the first words I heard was resentment, and I thought, well, I don't have any of those. And they talked about pouring liquor out and hiding liquor. I didn't do that until after I'd been around a while. And then I remembered that every once in a while, Paul would decide he was going to quit drinking. And in the morning, I would help him drink or pour out the beer, and I would think, you know, this is just one of his kooky ideas, because he would say we have to change all our friends, and I'm not going to drink anymore.
And I thought, that's a waste to pour out that beer, because I liked beer. And I would think, well, I'm not going to buy as much anymore. And by that night, Paul would decide that he wanted me to go to the store and get him three beers. And we'd argue a little bit, and I'd always end up going and feeling a little silly, you know, taking three out of the six-pack. I would bring him home, and I'd think, well, I'll have one.
And he didn't want me to have one. And I couldn't understand when I was good enough to go get it. I guess I could have gotten four. That never occurred to me. If I had gotten four, I guess he would have wanted four. And the other thing was, Paul had a doctor that his family came in as patients, and every Christmas, he would give Paul a case of scotch. And I would let Paul have maybe two bottles, and the rest I would hide.
I would put them in my cupboards, in my closets, in my dresser drawers, and then periodically I would go back and count. And then I couldn't remember how many I put there in the first place. And when we got to the program, the other thing that I did, one time I had an extra bottle, and I didn't have any room for it at home. And we had an L-shaped desk down at the office, and there was a cupboard under there that we never used.
So I thought, that will be a good place for that. So I took it down, and I pushed it into this cupboard, and it clinked up against another bottle. And I reached in there and got an empty half pint of scotch. And I thought, those stupid cleaning people. It never occurred to me that Paul had put it there. But the dumbest part of all was that I left my full quart. I'll tell you. It's my personal opinion, and I don't know whether you'll all agree with me, that the non-alcoholic is thicker than the alcoholic.
All this made sense to me at the time. And after we got on the program, I looked, or I checked about that scotch. Every bottle was gone. He found every one. Anyway, that must have been quite confusing to him, too. Find all these extra bottles. Anyway, like I say, I was around a year. The first thing we would do when we went to these AA meetings, we would try to figure out how long it would take us to get to Laguna.
Because we didn't want to get there too early. So the meeting started at 8.30, and we would go down to Laguna. If we got there early, we'd go to Denny's and have a soda or something. Get in at one minute before 8.30. Sit by the door. And as soon as they said the Lord's Prayer, we were out the door. And on the way home, we'd complain because people weren't very friendly.
[00:35:08]
No one knew we were around for the first year. Anyway, I am very grateful for the program, and I've learned many, many things on Al-Anon. I've got the freedom to be me. I used to always try to be the person I thought Paul wanted me to be, and I never did it right. Never did it right. During the drinking, we ended up we had no communication at all. We just didn't talk. And after we were around a couple years, we were able to tell each other how we felt rather than what we thought.
And there's a big difference between saying, I feel angry and you made me angry. It's kind of a touchy thing and takes a long time to learn that. But people can't argue with your feelings. Before I came to the program, I had just turned off all my emotions, and I really didn't feel much of anything. I was kind of numb when we got to the program. And that's why it surprised to me that I was able to feel something in that first AA meeting, because I really didn't feel much of anything.
And it took me a long time. I think I was on Al-Anon three years, going to lots of meetings, before I suddenly realized I didn't know how I felt. And it has taken me a long time to get in touch with my feelings, because when I first realized that I didn't know, then I didn't even know how to find out. And a lot of times, even yet, I have to think, what was my first reaction when that happened? And then I can pinpoint the feelings.
Somehow or other, I had gotten the idea that I should never be angry, so I wasn't. And now I have learned on Al-Anon that it's okay to feel any of the emotions. It's what I do with them that counts. And I had, well, there were several emotions that I just thought were bad, that you shouldn't have them, like jealousy or resentment or anger, or any of those that I thought were bad. But I realize now that there are no bad emotions.
And I am grateful for that. I don't even have time to go into all these things. Al-Anon has helped me with all areas of my life. Some things that have nothing to do with drinking. It's helped me with my kids. And our older daughter, I always had a lot of problems with her. She left home when she was 18. She was going to school. She had a part-time job, and she had a little money. And within three months, that was all gone.
She was paying for her boyfriend's apartment, and she bought $500 worth of dishes and silverware. They called me one day at the office and wanted to know where it was. I didn't know where it was. If I hadn't had Al-Anon, I certainly would have felt responsible for that. Anyway, after she was around, she was living with these girls, and they wanted her out. And so her other daughter and Paul and I had a little conference, and we decided that we didn't want Anne home either anymore because there was always such a big commotion.
So I found her a place to live down in Los Angeles, and we paid her room and board. And since she didn't have any other place to go, she went, but she wasn't real happy about it. And the nuns made her get a job, which we couldn't do. We would tell her to go look for a job, and she'd just ride around in the car. Anyway, we had gone on vacation, and when we came home, we called her, and the nuns said, well, she moved out yesterday.
And Paul said, do you think we should try to find her? And I said, no, I think she'll contact us. This time, we just wouldn't hear from her. And so he suggested that maybe I call and find out about the job that she had. So I talked to the boss, and he said, I don't understand. He said, Anne came in yesterday and said she had to quit because she needed the money. And he said, I don't understand that.
And I thought, well, if you knew Anne, it would make sense. Anyway, in a couple of days, she showed up. She came in with her boyfriend, and they were driving a rented car. And she had run up a $140 motel bill, and she wanted us to give her the money. And Paul had gone to Al-Anon.
[00:40:01]
When I first started, everything I did, he'd say, don't give me that Al-Anon crap. And so he decided to go to Al-Anon with me, I think, to find out what was going on there, and then really loved it and went for about a year and a half. And he told Anne that he could only share his experience, strength, and hope with her. And he had never had that problem. And she'd have to figure it out for herself.
She was a little upset with us for a while. I remember a letter she wrote us and told us that she was going to do all these great things and that she wasn't going to be money-grubbing like some people she knew. Anyway, I don't think we would have done her a favor to give her that money. She had to sign a note and leave some of her clothes and her books and so on. I guess she finally paid it off. But she's done many things.
Like I said, I couldn't have handled it if I hadn't had Al-Anon. She's done something that I never heard of before. I've never heard anybody say this. But she finally married this fellow. I think she was four or five months pregnant. She kept telling me that they weren't going to keep the baby because they couldn't afford it. So I listened and said nothing. And when they had the baby, they didn't let us know.
And a couple days after that, they walked into the office on a busy afternoon with the baby. And I was a little surprised. Her only explanation was, well, we changed her mind. And the other thing was, after they were married a few years, some of their friends and they decided that they didn't like organized religion and they were going to start their own church. And she believed in baptism by immersion.
And could they use our pool for the baptism? I said, ask your father. Anyway, he told them they could do it. And I didn't watch. But it was OK. I could have just heard me before the program. No way. Anyway, the other thing she did when she left home, we gave her a little Sony TV. And she hawked it for $10. I didn't even know she knew how to hawk anything. I still wouldn't know, but she did. Then we gave her another one, and that disappeared.
And finally we got a new colored console. And we got the old one fixed up and gave it to them. And in a short time, that disappeared. And she never explained any of these. We found out later that they needed a battery for their car, so they had given this colored console to somebody for a battery. And then we went to see them again, and there was another TV there. And she went into a long discussion about how that had been a stolen TV from San Diego, but they hadn't stolen it, and on and on and on.
And I sat there and listened to her, and she could have been the kid up the block. Then I knew I had really released her, that it wasn't necessary for me to straighten her out. It finally sunk in that it didn't matter what I said anyway. She did what she wanted. And, boy, that's a freedom, I'll tell you. I just am so grateful that Paul is an alcoholic so we could find this way of life. Thank you very much.
Thank you.