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Source: Chris R – From Ingram, Texas – Date Unknown.mp3 File: chris-r-from-ingram-texas-date-unknown.mp3 Duration: 00:56:05
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I'd like to introduce our final speaker for the day, Chris R. from Ingram, Texas. Yeah, my name's Chris Raymer, I'm a recovered alcoholic. Welcome, welcome. Good, look, some of the same faces that were here this morning. That's an amazing thing, that's an amazing thing. I'd like to share a couple of things with you tonight. I appreciated the other speakers. It was great to hear Desmond, and Lorna's off, and I'll get the chance to hug her neck later.
I know, bless her heart, what a heck of a story. We were sitting down here earlier before the meeting when the tape was going on from New York World. We were watching the video, you know, the history of Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm sitting there and I'm getting emotional about this, I'm laughing. I'm looking at Lorna, I'm saying, you know, this is amazing. And we're sitting here and she says, it's absolutely fascinating.
And I'm sitting here thinking, you know, and I'm fixing to stand here and cry right in front of you. Because we're watching the history of Alcoholics Anonymous, and we're watching the collective efforts of lots of people in the fellowship. But we're also watching the, I mean, how many thousands and thousands and thousands of people have died of alcoholism up to this point. And so, you know, there's some emotion here.
I'm listening to Lorna and watching you guys today, and a lot of you in the room I know well. And I've watched the trials and tribulations that you've gone through. And I need to repeat myself something I said earlier. You know, I'm going to talk for about an hour, and I'm going to tell you a little bit about my experience in this fellowship. And I'm going to reiterate again, one more time, this is my experience.
You know, sometimes I'll be lecturing in a hospital or doing a workshop, or I'll be saying something from the podium, and I'll be looking at somebody, and a guy will come up afterwards and say, you know, you were talking about me, weren't you? You know, it's like, I know you were talking, and it's like, you know, it sounds like it. Because a lot of our stories overlap, and a lot of our stories sound the same.
That's the identification that we can get out of this deal. The story I'm telling from the podium is my experience, and it comes from my perspective. My perspective, not your perspective. Can you all get straight with that? I get a little frustrated sometimes because people want to take stuff that I've said out of context. Well, how come you hate therapy? Well, I never said that I hated therapy. And they're big ones from the podium, and they'll come up and say, well, how come you're always honest about sharing stuff in meetings that doesn't come out of that big book?
You know, guys, that's not what I'm saying. My perspective is this. In 1980, I started going to Alcoholics Anonymous and heard everything under the sun except the message of hope that we've been hearing today. Y'all with us? There are areas of this country where we do not talk solution. And that's where I'm coming from. We all have a tremendous responsibility, and that responsibility, I think, sometimes is shirked by a lot of people under the guise of live and let live.
You know, it was in a box 459 that I got to read years ago that said, at what point does live and let live become apathy? It's like, well, you know, this may kill you, but I'm going to share it anyway. It's like, if you think by chance that it may kill you, why don't you shut up and not share it? How's that? You see, we intuitively know the Ten Step Promises. We intuitively know. We understand. That's why we got sober.
This fellowship is so much more than just not drinking today. It's so much more. This fellowship is about power, and that's what I want to talk to you guys about, and that's all I'm ever talking about. And so, if I say something from this podium ever that grinds you, maybe you need to be ground, you know, because there's some of us in this room, I'm telling you, some of us that continue to… Lorna's expression, you know, we continue to muck it up, you know, and it's like we're doing certain things, and we're getting crappy results, but we keep doing those things.
It's like at some point we need to stop what we're doing maybe and take a big long look at it and say, hey, maybe I could change this and this and this and maybe move it around a little bit and have a little better result. And that's what I finally had to do after seven years of messing with this fellowship. I had to say, what I'm doing is not working. I need to do something else. And you know the people that were there for me?
Guys, I'm telling you, the people that were there for me in 1987 when I got back to the fellowship were big book thumpers. They weren't the little junior therapists. They were the big book thumpers that were in there carrying a big book and talking about God and the steps. And I'm real passionate about it. I get real emotional about it. It's like we have one message to carry, and if we carry that we can change somebody's life, but we want to carry every other message in the world.
You follow me? That's what I want to talk about tonight. Y'all bear with me.
[00:05:04]
I'm fortunate that I get a chance to travel a bunch. I guess fortunate. I hate to do this. It's time away from home, and I know I'm going to come up here and I'm going to step on somebody, and I know I'm going to make some of you uncomfortable. So I wish I could just not do it. And I'm hoping that someday the telephone stops ringing and that everybody just says, let's leave Chris Raymer alone and I'll never get asked to speak anyplace else.
And I would love that. Probably not going to happen. But that's my prayer today. When I was 14 years old, I was sitting back there with Patty, and when I was 14 years old I remember sitting out. I grew up in this little town. Can you bring me some water, little bud? It's not carbonated. That's all I'm doing is burping now. I grew up in Kerbal, Texas, and there was a little road called Goat Creek Road.
This is country stuff here. Goat Creek Road. There's a little creek that runs through it. It's Goat Creek. I'm out on the front porch of this little hill and I'm sitting on these rock pedestals out in front of our house. We don't live in a nice house. It's an older house, but it's clean. We don't have a lot of money in my family. My father's a printer and my mother's a professional artist. There's a lot of love in that family.
We just don't have a lot of cash laying around. There's three or four of us in the house and I've got an identical twin brother. They're all asleep, and I remember sitting out there in that hill country, in that southern breeze coming up there, and I remember sitting on that pedestal. I don't think I've ever talked about this from the podium, but when Lorna was talking, it just struck me. I remember asking God, you know, we were raised in a church, and I always believed in God.
I never had a problem with that. And I remember asking God, I said, God, you know, I just feel so useless. It's like I don't have any great intellect, and I don't have any great looks, that's for sure, and I couldn't get a date with two pockets of crack cocaine, you know. I've got bad posture, and I've been hit in the eye with a rock when I was a kid, and I'm looking a little funky, and my face is all broken.
And I said, God, I just want to be useful. I just want to have a reason to be on this earth. Everybody's got their little niche, and I said, I don't know what I'm ever going to do. I don't know where I want to be when I grow up. I don't want to go to school. I don't know. I am absolutely rudderless. Not that thirsty, but that's good. I am absolutely rudderless, and I'm out there, and I remember sitting there on the pedestals, and the moon's full up there, and I see the fireflies out there in the field.
I said, you've put me in this beautiful world, and I've got a family that loves me, and I feel so empty inside. I just… It was the beginning of the end for me. A year, two years later, I was to take my first alcohol in my body, and I remember thinking, I was getting a little frustrated because years had passed by, and I'm still not finding my destiny. I don't know what I'm going to be when I grow up.
I'm about 17 years old, and we're down at the river, and this old boy says, Chris, I've got this bottle of Boone's Palm Apple Wine. He says, here, take this pull. Some of you all heard me on the tapes talk about this, and I took a big pull, and I spit it out, and he took a big pull, and he spit it out, and finally, I took one and kept it down, and Edward said, I'll never forget it. He said, that's the nastiest tasting crap I've ever tasted in my life.
Boone's Palm Apple Wine. I said, what's the big allure here? I said, I don't know. He said, well, I've got to go home. It was 11 o'clock at night. I said, I've got to go home. We'd been out on the river. We were going to do this ride. And I said, you mean, you don't want any more of this? Now, that's what you're telling me. We were going to split this bottle, and now you're walking away from this. I'm not going to save this for you.
I mean, are you going to stay and drink it? He said, Chris, I'm done. It tastes like crap. I'm not going to drink that stuff. And he walked across the pedestal. I remember thinking, I said, well, let's see what I can do here. I pulled me a couple more poles. Guys, I'm going to tell you something. Just like that, my internal condition started feeling better, and I started feeling a little better. You know, I don't have a goal in life, and I ain't going to make much money probably, but I think I'll probably change the world at some point or another.
The one thing that alcohol gave me instantly was hope. I'll never forget it. Going home that night, I'd pick up the phone in the phone book, and mom would say, Chris, it's 11.30 at night. You can't be calling anybody. It's too late. And I said, I'll handle this. It's okay. And I started calling every woman I knew in that high school. It was coming up Friday, and I needed a date. No better time like the present.
I'm drunk. I'm calling these women. I didn't get a date, but I made an impression on some of these cats. I can tell you. Alcohol did some cool things for me. I wanted to be a professional chef. I was in the food business. I'm walking into a kitchen, and all these chefs are running around, and they're all going, and they all have a direction,
[00:10:00]
and I'm just scared to death. And I go out to the car, and I've got a couple of beers on the floorboard, and I take it and crack one of those beers and listen to a little music and drink the other beer and walk back in and say, hey, I'd like to work for you. Guy says, you're hired. Here, apron. Boom, let's go. And all of a sudden, I got a job. Guys, thank God for alcohol. I mean, I know. If it hadn't been for alcohol, I never would have.
I mean, I had a career, and I eventually, thank God, got laid. I mean, it was a good thing. But I did it drinking. I did it with some alcohol in me. You see, I didn't do it drunk. Alcoholics, and that's the problem with alcoholism, we talked about this morning in our little workshop, you know. There's a period of time that we can drink and control it and kind of hold it all together, and alcohol works.
If it didn't work, we wouldn't do it. I heard a guy from the podium one time say, every time I drank, I blacked out. I said, that's so screwed up. That's not my experience. That's just not my experience. My experience was that for 18 years, drinking and drugging, I had moments of tremendous success. And I had moments of absolute… Literally, in 1976, I was getting out of dumpsters in Houston, Texas.
And then two months later, I'm working at one of the biggest hotels in Houston, Texas. You all follow me? Place to live, big bank account. And that's what makes this disease so weird to look at. It's because there's just times when it just works. You down with this? I was quite successful for a long period of time. I suppose one of the things, at least on the outside, I was making some money and I was chalking up the little accolades.
But the internal condition was deteriorating rapidly. The depression, we talked about it earlier, the depression was killing me. And I guess from the time I was about 19, 20 years old, I was taking antidepressants. Back then, guys, they didn't prescribe antidepressants like they do today. Today, you just walk in and say, here, you need an antidepressant. Here. Really. They give them out like candy.
Some of you all are taking them now. More power to you. For me, it was a very weighted decision to start putting me on antidepressants. But the depression was kicking my butt and the only time I didn't feel the depression was when I had a couple of drinks in me. You down with this? The alcohol treated this internal condition that was driving me nuts. And of course, I didn't stop drinking and start taking the antidepressants.
I took the antidepressants and continued to drink. We call this self-medication. It was just made for a lousy situation. And I'm not a very happy camper. I learned early on, folks, and I speak from the podium a lot about this, I learned early on that you can manipulate a lot of people with this thing called depression. And some of you guys that are depressed now, please, I'm not looking how to do this lecture like this.
I'm just going to turn around like this. I'm not talking to you specifically about this, you see? Because you all get so sensitive about it. I'm going to tell you something, folks. One of the toughest things in the world for me to overcome in sobriety was victimization. Because I learned to use victimization to my advantage. You all dig what I'm saying? Most guys out there, most girls out there, if you've got you a big bad thing that you don't want to talk about, you follow me?
You can use that a lot in society. And some of you have already made uncomfortable. Too bad. Because you've got to get straight with this business. It's not a good way to live, you see? You can manipulate people with your anger and your depression. You wouldn't want to go out with a loser like me, would you? And nine out of ten of them will say no. And then there'll be that one, oh honey, come on baby.
I'll fix what's wrong with you. There you go. If it didn't work, there wouldn't be so many of us out there doing it. Isn't that right? And so I'm in and out of therapy. I'm in and out of therapy. And I'm talking about all this stuff that's driving me crazy and I can't seem to get sober. And I'm making geographical moves. I've always driven a pickup. My mom asked me one time, she said, Chris, why don't you buy something besides a pickup?
I said, hell, I might need to move. Because it's easy to just throw the stuff in. And in Texas, that's what we do. We just move a lot. And I'm in and out of jobs. And I'm, oh Jesus. If I could just get out of this food business. If I could just get the catering company. If I could just sell the catering company. Just get back into the sales. If I could get out of sales and get the little barbecue restaurant.
It's always something down there. Always back over there that's going to fix me. And I'm going to say, a lot of you nodding your head because that's what a lot of us have done most of our life. I've never lived in the moment. I've never lived for today. I've always lived for when I get the degree. When I finally get married. When we finally have kids. When I finally get out of this business. I'm looking for all this external stuff to fix what's wrong with me.
Yeah? And if you look around and talk to enough people, you can find a bunch of people that will validate this stuff. Well Chris, it's just like we talked about. A bunch of people that will validate this stuff, well Chris, it's just like we talked about this morning, well Chris, when you stop hanging out with those people, you'll get
[00:15:03]
better. Well Chris, when you start going to church, you'll get better. Well Chris, when you finally settle down and get married, you'll get better. Guys, I needed to make changes in my life, and I needed to do some things different, and I did those things, and you know what didn't change? My bank account changed, my residence has changed, my health changed, the only thing that didn't change was my inner condition.
The spiritual malady almost killed me. Now this is my experience again, folks, in 1987, 1980, as a result of a little domestic disturbance, my father was an alcoholic, folks, I need to tell you, and he died alcoholic, and it was a bad deal, and I always remembered thinking, you know, I don't ever want to be like my dad. I love him, and he raised a good kid. He raised me right. He taught me work ethics, and he taught me a lot of cool things, but he died an alcoholic, and I knew I didn't want to die like that.
I knew I didn't, and here he is in 1980, and I'm up there yelling at my then wife, just like he used to yell at my mom, and I'm thinking, you know, here, I've come full circle here, and I'm becoming the person that I least wanted to be. A good counselor told me that week, after this domestic disturbance, you know, you're in the system, and you have to go get counseling in Texas, and they make sure that you do this, and thank God for that rule, because I went to MHMR, and there was a lady in there, and she listened to my story, and she listened to her story, and she said, Chris, you know, I see your chart.
I got a chart like this, this thick, you know, from all the doctors and psychiatrists and all the people that I'd seen, and she said, Chris, buddy, I appreciate all your disorders and stuff here, you know, but you got in this trouble the other night, because you drank too much alcohol and did too much cocaine. You're an alcoholic and a drug addict, and you need to make some changes along this stuff, and she gave me a list of a meeting there in North Texas of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I went to my first meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Are you with me? Downtown Denton, Texas, and I went to this address, and this room you have, it's a stairway like this comes down, except this was up, above this warehouse in downtown Denton, and this was this meeting, and it's dark outside, and there's dead bugs everywhere, cricket season, you know, and there's dead bugs all over the place, and you can smell the poison they've been using out there, and it's like, buddy, I didn't even hang out in these places when I was living on the street, and now here I am, and I'm supposed to be going to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, and I walk up the steps, you know, creak, creak, these wooden steps up to the top of this thing, and I'm looking, I see there's a light up at the top of this, and I'm walking up, but it's so dim in there, and I walk in, there used to be a bar in Houston called Marfrales, and it was a big classical jazz bar, you could go in there and listen to this music, it was a tremendous bar, because it was pitch black, you had to stand at the door until your eyes got adjusted to the light, and then you could walk in, and I walk into this meeting, and there's this old geezer, I don't know how old he was, but he was sitting in an easy chair back, and he had a light, and there was no hood on the light, it was just this and a bulb sitting up there, and this geezer's up there, and I look, and I realize, I thought it was just he and I up there, and I look around, there's six or seven other people in there, right? I'm like, I should have drank two beers before I went up this stairs. I had one, a tall boy down there in a car, in a truck, before I got up, because I need to get sober, but I don't know, this is scaring the bejesus out of me, what is this, a seance, or what? Walk up, sit down, he says, do you have a problem with alcohol?
Hell yes, absolutely. He says, then you're welcome, and I said, that's great, and I sat down like that, and then we went around, guys, I've told it a thousand times, we went around and we started the little processing, and everybody went around and shared, the problem of the day, how come you can't stay sober? Well, my husband beats me, well, how come you can't stay sober? Well, this, that, and that, and that, and that, and we talked about all the problems in the world, and I'm sitting there going, geez, you know, I'm a sous chef at a big country club, where I was up in North Texas, and I owned a house, and I have some possessions, and these people are telling me these terrible, scary stories, and it's
[00:20:00]
like, just like the young adult panel today was talking, it's like, what are we doing here? He said, Chris, would you like to share? I said, well, I'm drinking too much, and we had a little fight with my wife, and I don't want to lose her, and I need to get sober. Well, you keep coming back, that's great, and they passed the basket, we dropped a dollar in, and I found myself an hour later, outside this place, just like, what the hell was that?
What did we just do? Well, keep coming back, that's great. Well, I'm not going to go to that meeting anymore, I'm going to go to this meeting over here. We go to this meeting over here, next night, same stuff. Only with 60 people in a room, and there's a lot of people in there, but I can't hear the solution. Nobody's going to talk about what's in the big book. Guys, you know, I've said it from the podium a million times, the problem is not getting alcoholics to the meetings. We have an endless supply coming out of our treatment centers, endless supply coming off the streets, picking up the phone book, calling Alcoholics Anonymous.
The problem is, what are we doing with them when they get here? Are we making the meetings great places for people to come in? When people come into meetings, can they sense that there's a power there we're sticking around for? Because I'm going to tell you something, folks, I walked into these meetings absolutely hopeless, and I spent the next seven years in and out of Alcoholics Anonymous. Everybody wants to take exception with that. Well, Chris, you just didn't want to get sober. Well, I'm going to suggest something to you that I absolutely did want to get sober, and I absolutely did not want to continue to live the absolute crappy way I was living. But guys, I couldn't get anybody to slow down long enough to tell me how to stay sober. They just kept saying, please bear with me, keep coming back, it'll get better. And I'm coming back, and the depression's killing me. And I'm losing hope, because I'm coming back, I'm doing what you're asking me to do, and I can't get well. I see you're happy, and I'm thinking, well, shit, what is she doing that I'm not doing? What's he doing that I'm not doing? Because he's sharing the same crap in a meeting that I'm sharing, we're all doing the same stuff, how come I can't get well? In and out, in and out.
So, 1987, first wife left. I promised her one night, not long after that debacle, that I would never take another drink as long as I live. And she made a deal with me. She said, Chris, if you'll stay sober, we'll stay together. But if you get drunk, I'm out of here. Because I can't live like this. I can't live in the fear and the financial bankruptcy that you continue to place us in. And I stayed sober for, excuse me, two weeks. And at the end of two weeks, the internal condition was so uncomfortable, I couldn't stand it. The voices that Lorna was talking about, and the glass of wine I was talking to her, this happened in a Mexican restaurant in Texas, for me. And there's a beer, there's a pitcher of beer.
Chris, you want a beer? No, no thank you. Chris, it's just a beer. No, no thank you, I'm not drinking. Let's have some more food. We sit and visit, but by the end of the dinner, I'm sitting there looking at that pitcher, and I'm thinking, what the hell? It's just a beer. What's it going to hurt? You with me? You see, the deal I'd made with Karen, my first wife, the deal I'd made with her was not that I wouldn't get loaded. The deal that I made with her was that I wouldn't touch another beer. Period. I drank the beer. Phenomena Craven kicked in. Drank two beers. Did not go home drunk. We did not have a fight. She looked at me when I walked through the door. She could tell I'd been drinking. She went to the bedroom and packed. She did exactly what she said she would do. And of course, I took her inventory for the next five years. We could have made something if she'd have stuck it out. Bless her heart, she lived because she took care of herself. And I spent the next five years in and out of AA, in and out of therapy, in and out of work, in and out of just unbelievable. What a nightmare it was. I'd stay sober for a period of time and build everybody's hopes up and then I would get loaded and drank them all back down again and stay sober for a period of time. That's why I'm saying, guys, sometimes you hear people from the podium that came in and this was it and they got sober and everything else was great. My perspective is that I nearly died once I got to this fellowship. But what we talked about this morning, I was in the fellowship part, but I was not in the program part. There was no work for me to do. You with me? Because I wasn't going to do it.
And it's like, I'm telling you guys, it's everywhere, all over this country, it's the same. I speak a lot of different places and we talk about this business and a lot of people that are just flat not doing the work. In 87, Reader's Digest condensed. I came home one night late and it was late for me, it was pushing six o'clock and I'd been at work and I took a bottle of pills and a bottle of black label and stood there in front of
[00:25:09]
the medicine cabinet, you know, the glass, the window there over the sink and I'm sitting there watching the sink and I'm thinking, you know, I said, this ain't working for me. And I said, nothing's going to work and I need to check out. I need to go ahead and finish this now because I can't keep living like this. And the depression is just palatable. And I took a bottle of pills and it was a bunch of Valium and I took a bunch of Valium and I took the alcohol and I drank the stuff down and I'm crying. I'm real emotional, of course, and I'm just, you know, but there's a certain calmness, you know, with people that have decided to commit suicide and they're done with it and they just, I'm just done.
And I heard a voice that said, Chris, don't do it. We laughed. I don't know what I heard but I heard a voice that said, Chris, don't do it. And I sat down that night and I argued with that voice and I'm standing at that sink, still standing there, hanging on. Chris, don't do it. Go back to AA. I said, I'm not going back to AA. I'm not ever going to go back to Alcoholics Anonymous again because all they do is talk about their stupid-ass war stories and talk about their problems. And I said, I might get well in those meetings.
Chris, don't do it. Go back to AA. I've told it a million times from the podium, guys. You know, I don't know what I heard that night but I believe in God's grace and I believe I heard something that said, literally, don't do it. I got sick. I made myself sick that night. I said, okay, I'm not going to commit suicide tonight. I'm not going to kill myself tonight. I'm going to do what I think I need to do. You want me to go back to AA, whatever this voice is, I'm going to go back to Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm going to give it one more shot.
I need to tell you point blank, guys. This is my story. I'm going to tell you going in the door. When I walked into that meeting the next night in Alcoholics Anonymous, I didn't have any more desire to stay sober than I had in 1980 when I first darkened the doors of Alcoholics Anonymous. I wanted to get sober. You know what I wanted to do? I'm not sure if I really wanted to get sober. I just wanted the pain to stop. I wanted the voices to shut up and go away. I wanted to get excited about my life again. I wanted to, Lorna was talking so beautifully about, we're always just a little, this is life right here, and I'm always just a little bit to the left of it. I just want to get, for once, be right in the middle of life and just do this thing. No? Man, I got to get sober.
I walked in that night. It was 8 o'clock at night. Excuse me, it was a 6 o'clock meeting. It was dark. It was weather just like this. It was cold and rainy outside up in north Texas, up in Louisville. I walked in the back door of this AA club. I'd never been there before. I didn't want anybody to know I was there. You know what I'm saying? I'm walking in the back door. Everybody knew I was in trouble, but I didn't want them to know I was going back to AA. I've got a reputation to uphold. I walked back in this back door.
I walk in. Instantly, you open the door and everybody's smoking. It's one of those shotgun meetings where it's long six-foot tables in a row down there. I walk into this meeting. All the heads, they're laughing and talking. All the heads turn and look at me. Then they went right back to their conversation. They were all having a good time. They were all carrying big books. I remember walking in thinking, man, I screwed up. I said, of all the meetings I could go back into, I have to go back into a big book thumper meeting.
You follow me? I'm thinking, at the very least, I'll get a date out of this deal. You know what I'm saying? I'll use a little sympathy. I've just tried to commit suicide in here. It's like none of that. I walked in and I'm starting to back out again. There's a little girl. She was 19 years old. It was such a cool thing to see the young adult panel. She got sober when she was 18. She was about a year sober when I first walked in the door.
She got right behind me. She could see I was walking back in. I was so uncomfortable. I stepped on her foot. She said, easy there, buddy. She said, why don't you sit down next to me? She called me cowboy. She said, sit down, cowboy. I said, do I look like a cowboy? I learned later that her sponsor was back over by my back and told her to get me because her sponsor couldn't get over. Can you imagine the guts it took for that little girl to put her finger in my belt? She didn't say, would you care to sit down? She hooked her finger in my belt loop and said, sit down. I weigh about 40 pounds more than I weigh now and it's all right here and I'm coming up. I mean, I'm just, you know what it is when you feel lousy, you want everybody to feel lousy, you know? And this little sunbeam for Jesus was, was pulling on my pants and I'd like, she said, she sat me down right, right now.
She sat me down, right next to me like this, and she handed me a cup of coffee, and I, you know, I'm just, I'm shaking real hard, the coffee's coming out, just like, and it's like, every time I'm, I'm, what's the term, I'm quick, you know what I mean, I just, I'm, guys, I'm detoxing in this meeting, and she's sitting right there, she's laughing, they got a paper towel, she's cleaning it up, we start this meeting, guys, I'm not making this up, it's like, it's like, we look at this from a perspective, what really happened that night in that meeting, I, I don't know, I don't know,
[00:30:24]
it was 15 years ago when I was detoxing, here's what I see happen, here's what I believe happened to me, they went around the room, and there wasn't anybody share war stories with me, the guy that was chairing the meetings had handed me a thousand desire chips at other meetings, y'all with me, I'm a, I'm a proof positive that meeting makers don't make it, meeting makers just pick up a lot of desire chips, and that's exactly what I did, and they passed me, they said, Chris, buddy, we've been here with you before, welcome to the fellowship, again, we're going to offer a chip at the end of this meeting, but for right now, here's what we're going to do, we've got some cats in this meeting that are staying sober one day at a time, and they're going to share with you a little hope about how, how, what happened in their life that, since they got sober, is the way you put it, they didn't say, how did we get here, because, guys, I'm going to tell you, I, I know how we got here, we drank too much, what I'm looking for is, can you give me a reason to stay in this room, because I'm going to go finish the job, I'm going to go commit suicide, can you give me a reason to stay in this room, I'm going to tell you something, guys, they all went around the room, and this first guy, I'll never forget, he chaired, I've seen him in meetings before, and he's telling me about how his credit got returned to him, he got a credit card, now, I've got some of you guys with a big pocket full of credit, you, you, you, like, big, big, freaking deal, got a credit card, so what, guys, if, if you had a credit card, and you lost that credit card, and you don't understand what I'm saying, how you get to depend on it, and now, all of a sudden, you don't have it anymore, and this guy was telling about getting his credit back, this guy talked about getting his kids back, and this lady talked about getting in a relationship with somebody that she really loved, I'm going to tell you something, folks, those people gave me something that night, I don't remember, I don't remember everything they said, I remember the tone in their voice, and the love in their hearts, they shared absolute hope with me, absolute hope with me, Chris, it doesn't matter how far down you've got, it doesn't matter the stuff that you've done, this is what's happened to us since we got to the fellowship, this is what the power of God has done in our lives, guys, if I'd have landed in any other meeting that night, and they'd have, they'd have started that, that steady spew of chicken shit one-liners at me, I'd have died, I'd have died, Ebby, in the front of the book, when it's talking about Bill Wilson, Bill's there, and Ebby's twelve-stepping him, and Bill's sitting there, and Ebby's sitting across the table, and he says, his very deportment shouted good tidings, it shouted a changed life, and that's what those people were doing with me, because they knew I was on my last leg, and they didn't, listen, for the first time, I believe I landed in a room full of people that loved me enough to tell me the truth, they cared enough about me to share the hope with me, and they didn't give a rat's butt if they hurt my sensitive little feelings, they were not going to walk on eggshells and hide their passion for life under a bushel, because it was making me uncomfortable, can you all get down with that?
Thank God those people stood for something, that little 19-year-old girl, she's still sober today, kicking butt, taking names, most of the people in that room are still sober today, because they understood where the gift came from, it's called God's grace, I'm sorry guys, I don't want to come across preachy with you folks, you've heard me talk from the podium a thousand times, you've heard those chicken shit tapes, they're everywhere, no, it embarrasses me, because I come across as the henchman, I come across as the bad guy, you know, Chris, you've got a group that's talking middle of the road, and they want me to come clean up the group for them, I said, you know, that's not my job here, my job is to share exactly what happened to me, just like the other speakers today have shared.
I nearly died in Alcoholics Anonymous because nobody would tell me the truth, the truth is if you're a real alcoholic, we have the only way out that you can recover, it's called a spiritual experience, and a spiritual experience is not willy-nilly, it's not given to some and jerked back from others, it's an absolute gift when you hold yourself ready to receive it. It's called attitude. You know, I hear people all the time talking from the podium about the steps and how we do it, and we do the 9th step just this way, and we do the 4th step just this way, and if you make every single one of your amends, this will happen, and you do this and you do this, that is not what my book says.
My book says we share in a general way, and these steps are to be worked, listen, you're going to work the steps different than I work the steps, it's along the same lines, we're going to the same goal, but the attitude, if you bring an attitude of love and humility, and you're asking for a gift, you're going to receive that gift, and I've never seen it fail, you don't have to do it perfect, you just have to make a stab at it.
[00:35:17]
And I couldn't stay sober, folks, not because other people out there were keeping me away from it, I just wouldn't get off my ass and do the work, nobody would motivate me enough to do things different in my life so that I could feel the change that was going to take place. Let me use the word, folks, they held me accountable, and there were years, if you read the archives, there were years when we held everybody accountable in our fellowship.
When you came to the fellowship, we would show you, we would show the newcomer what to do. What do we do today? In a lot of groups, we don't do that. We're too busy, just exactly what Lorna said and Des earlier, you know, we have a tendency, we want to look at everything else under the sun and get involved in all this other stuff out here and not worry about what our primary purpose is. My primary purpose is to help you get sober.
Sometimes in order to do that, I have to say some things that may be offensive to you, that may unruffle you, make you uncomfortable. I don't want to do a four-step. I don't think I saw it here where it said that you have to want to do it. It just says, I didn't want to do it either. That's why I didn't do it. I mean, take what you want and leave the rest. Excuse me, that is not what this book says.
This book says if you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it, then you're ready to take certain steps. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon. We stood at the turning point. Alcohol is this way. God is this way. What's it going to be? Do what you want to do. Nobody is going to force you. Are you having a great life? Are you passionate about your existence?
Are you enjoying God's gifts? No. No. No. You want to make a change? Yes. Go. Go. Let's do it. And it's like I said, I don't care what the attitude you take. I mean, you grind your teeth about it, but just do it for heaven's sake. And the miracle takes place. Let me tell you what happened. Real quick before we run out of time. That night, they asked me if I wanted to stay sober. And some of you guys, you'll find this cranky with me, but they asked me if I wanted to stay sober for good.
They said, our book asked me to ask you if you want to stay sober for good and for all. It doesn't say in the first 164 pages if you want to stay sober one day at a time. That's another thing we've taken out of context. It says I'm going to live life one day at a time. Hey, guys, I got a great word for you. It's something that Patty's trying to get me to understand. It's called… Thank you. Commitment.
You with me? It's called commitment. Commitment. And that's what the deal is. We want you to commit. You want to try to stay sober. We're not saying that you know how to do it. We know how to do it. We'll show you how to do it. I've got to get some commitment from you first, because I'm not going to waste my time on you if you don't want to get this thing. If you still want to get out here and question whether or not you're one of us or not, what can I say?
I can't force you to find God. But if you want to come, I'll show you. I'll walk right by your side until we find the power. And you're going to have your own spiritual experience that will blow you out of the water. Chris, you want to get sober for good and for all? After some conversation. Trust me. It was a lengthy little conversation there. One in which they took their coffee and left the room, because they weren't listening to that.
Ask me the question again. Chris, you want to stay sober for good and for all? Yes. That was the answer. Thank you. Will you be back here in the morning? Yes. I had no intention of being back in the morning, because I screwed up. I landed in a room full of people that were going to actually, actually ask me to do something. And the next day, 9 o'clock, Saturday morning. Who the hell is… Who in…
I'm detoxing still, folks. I'm sleeping. Saturday, my one day off. Little guy out there I'd seen at the meeting. Little schmuck. He wasn't one of the big poopers. He was one of the kids. He was like, Chris, I'm supposed to take you to the meeting. I'm supposed to be here to make sure you get the meeting okay. I said, unbelievable.
[00:40:00]
What is this? What is this, a hit or what? I said, let me… I mean… I shut the door. I said, I'll be right there. I realized that I'd answered the door. I hadn't worn a patch. I had little blown out shorts on. I must have scared this kid to death. I went and got cleaned up real quick. Got in the car. Went to the meeting. That morning, after the meeting, it was a noon meeting, we did a third step prayer.
And then we went to Poncho's to make Mexican food. And during the lunch that we were having, they gave me some information. They gave me some sheets that had some four step information on. And we talked about the necessity for finishing a four step. I said, guys, I've been around AA for seven years and haven't done this many steps. I'm sitting in this thing two days into this and still detoxing and you…
You know, I'm looking and they're just… There's four of them at the table and they're just… They were not joking with me. They were just… They said, Chris, are you going to do it or not? Yeah. Took the stuff, went home and started working on it. Two weeks later, it's a week later into this deal, I'm two weeks away from that suicide attempt. I'm at a Friday night meeting and my sponsor, this guy, he's got a year sober.
Oh, we're not supposed to sponsor anybody until we've been sober two years. Screw you. This guy's got less than a year sober. The month that I got sober, he picked up his one year chip and he sponsored me and he's showing me what to do. And I'm saying, you're not going to believe the stuff I'm seeing in this four step. You know all that stuff, time I've been spending being a victim about Vietnam and about this, that and the other?
I said, buddy, I've never been a victim in my life. I've been a stupid volunteer. All I've ever done is ask for this stuff to come down on my head. And I'm laughing with a big shitty grin and he's saying, yeah, Chris, now you're finally starting to get what this is about. It's pretty cool. You know what you're starting to get? You're starting to get free. Freedom, folks. That's what this fellowship is about.
Freedom not just from the bondage of alcohol, but freedom from selfish and self-centeredness to the core. I went home that night. It was a Friday night. It was November 13th. It was two weeks after that when I'd come into the program and I'm sitting on the back end of my pickup truck in the apartment complex where I tried to commit suicide those two weeks before. And I'm surrounded by alcohol. 7-Eleven, stop-and-go restaurant, bar tab, cocaine dealer living in an apartment complex with me, pocket full of cash.
Friday. You all know the scenario. Nobody around. I can go get it or not. Guys, this is the deal. I'm sitting there on the end of that truck and the emotion that came over me was the same emotion I got when I was sitting up here with Lorna watching this film, this video. This emotion that life is different today. The obsession to use had been lifted from me. And I'm going to tell you my story. My story is that for 15 years I haven't obsessed about alcohol and drugs since.
And I'm a guy that could not not drink. And for the last 15 years, I've been sober. Now that's a miracle. That's an absolute miracle. And I've got to tell you something, folks. The arrogance of us to think that we can come into a meeting and share anything else besides that miracle. You need a therapist? Let's find you one. You need a doctor? Let's find you one. You need a lawyer? Let's find you one.
But we do one thing in these rooms. Our primary purpose is to share the message of hope to the newcomer. You know why this is so controversial? You know why this grinds everybody? Because we've all sat in meetings and done it. We've all sat in meetings and dumped and puked and thrown up on the table and let somebody else go clean it up. And you leave well. And you leave feeling great. God, I'm glad I dumped that.
Thank God that meeting was there. Uh-huh. But what about the poor schmuck in the back that just walked in down the back and he's there by himself and he's scared and he's just like me 15 years ago and he's detoxing and he doesn't want to be there and he's self-conscious and the depression's kicking his butt? What about him? Did he give a rat's butt about your relationship? Did he get anything about talking about your divorce?
One more stupid time? No. He didn't… Oh, and he didn't hear the message of how to recover either, did he? Because we were too busy talking about your crap. You think it's your God-given right to come into an AA meeting and share anything on your mind? What's the root of our trouble, folks? What does page 62 say? What's the root of my problems? Alcohol? Oh, no. Selfish and self-centeredness? Unbelievable.
Guys, we've got to laugh about this. Of course it's selfish and self-centeredness. Guys, we've got to laugh about this. Of course it's selfish and self-centered. And now we want to come into a meeting and dominate the whole meeting talking about our crappy day.
[00:45:00]
And then we wonder why we can't stay sober. Let me tell you something. Two years ago I got divorced. It was years coming. When I first met a bunch of y'all at Fellowship of the Spirit years ago, I had my wife with me at the time and we were already splitting. It was torturous to go through. There was a little 14-year-old stepson involved and I'd never had any kids. And this was a pretty cool thing for me.
And Rhino was there and involved in this. And I just, you know, there was no other woman. There was no other weirdness going on. It just, I was not happy. And I knew that my life was going in a different direction and I needed to be someplace else. And I'm going to tell you something, folks. There was some time in that period of time. I came back from that and right soon thereafter we separated. And I, it was one of those deals, you know, I knew I was doing the right thing by doing this, but yet I didn't want to go through the pain.
It was like getting sober, you know. I knew I was on the right path, but I didn't want to really do the things that… I was laughing with Patty about it. You know, it's like I'll never forget that day in September. It was, you know, I'm 48 years old and I'm standing in a little rock motel in Kerbal, Texas called the Lone Star Lodge. This is it. Patty knows where it is. I mean, it's a little rock motor court.
You know, the highway's out there and it's like, you know, a little door, and I'm standing in there with a suitcase. We've got my roller blades in it. I've got my bicycle and a stupid green Kermit the Frog, you know. And I'm standing there at 48 years old. In the Lone Star Lodge. You know, this, you know, roaches the size of this thing on there. And it's like, I'm like, boy, you know, God, the miracles just keep on coming.
You know, it's like I'm 15 years sober and I just don't think it can get much better than this. You know, and it's just exactly what Lorna was talking about. It's like I'm working with others. I'm working the steps. I'm watching my stuff. I'm helping others. I'm involved in service work. And yet, and yet I'm going through this very dark period of my life. And there was no rhyme or reason for it. And it was just, I mean, the arrogance of us to think that we're going to get sober and everything's just going to be okay for the rest of our life.
Everything's just going to be happy, happy, happy. Guys, let me be the first to break it to you. Life is a bitch. Life is tough. Best case scenario. Life is the most wonderful thing we can imagine. But there's just going to be times when it's not going to be the way you want it to be. And thank God, and thank God that I had Alcoholics Anonymous. I need to tell you this, not once in that year, living in that Lone Star Lodge, did I ever want to take a drink.
There were many a night that I wanted to die. And you need to hear that. But the obsession to use had been lifted from me. That's why I introduced myself as a recovered alcoholic. Because buddy, if I was going to drink, when I told that 14 year old kid goodbye, I'd have drank. What kind of a crappy, screwed up program is this? If all we can tell you is that if life goes great, you can stay sober. Let me tell you this, when life goes great, you can stay sober.
And when life goes to hell in a hand basket, you can stay sober. And that's the coolest thing I can tell you. And that's got a lot of power to it. And that's got a lot of wisdom to it. And those old timers, they loved me. And they never left me. And we talked about the divorce. And when Patty and I started dating, and all of a sudden there was a looming new relationship heading at me at warp speed.
I surrounded him. Really. I talked to my sponsors and people around the fellowship, and they called. I mean, I know so many people around the country and in other countries where I speak. And they all called and said, Chris, buddy, let me give you some info here. Let me give you some advice. Let me talk to you. And the people around the fellowship, just exactly like they did through the divorce, just like they do with y'all when you get sick, whatever, they pulled around us real close, and we stayed tight, and we got through it to the next phase of my life.
Not once did I feel a compulsion to go into a meeting and tell them what a shitty day I was having. Those cats that I saw in downtown Manhattan yesterday living on the street,
[00:50:04]
they're having a shitty day. I'm surrounded by thousands of men and women just like you that love me, and know my name and call me, and want me to come over to their house and eat dinner with them. I got a great life. I got a stellar life. I'm here for the newcomer. True. I'm here for you, too. I'm going to end with this. I'm going to tell you point blank. If any of you cats are going through the ringer, you got my number, I got cards, whatever you want to do, you can get in touch with me.
You call me, we can visit about it. We can talk and share. Because we're brothers and sisters in this fellowship, and I made a deal when I got here, if you'd watch my back, I'd watch your back. Guess who's watching my back with you? God's got me. I'm going to be okay. My mom asked me one time not long ago, she says, she says, Chris, 15 years you've been going to these A&A meetings. She still calls them A&A meetings.
She says, when is your debt going to be paid off? I mean, when are you going to be even, you know? She's always, she blames the AA for breaking up that relationship. You know, she talks about it. You know, if you spent more time at home, maybe you wouldn't have had this trouble. She says, no, no, no. I said, Lois, I got to tell you something. I haven't written one hot check since I got sober. Me, that's my truth.
I have not eaten out of one single dumpster. I've not called in, lied about coming in work late, not one time. I mean, guys, I've got this pretty cool life going here as a direct result of getting connected with this thing called God. I'm blessed by God's grace. The least I can do, the very least I can do, is an hour or two a week. I go to a meeting about every day. Three or four times a week, I'm sitting my little skinny butt in an AA meeting, not preaching, not slamming the big book, waiting for the newcomer to come in the door that was looking just as hopeless and full of fear as me.
Because somebody else said it earlier. We talked about it. Some of the young adults talked about it. You see, because if you're not there, this idea that somebody else is going to pick up the slack is bullshit. And we've all got to get straight with this. You were spared for a reason. Come on, folks. Why didn't I die in the dumpster? God was with me there. God saved me. Why didn't I die out there on that street?
Why didn't the Hep C get me? Why didn't the AIDS get me? Why was I allowed to live? And then I'm going to sit here on my butt and watch a newcomer come in and look around uncomfortable and not know where the bathroom is and be freaked out? What am I going to do? And I'm going to sit here and just laugh and joke, tell some jokes and wait for somebody else to go get him? No, guys, because you all need to understand it.
You were placed here for a reason so that some newcomer could live. Where's the debt going to be paid? The debt's going to be paid when you understand that that's your responsibility. Don't sit at the door and wait for him to look uncomfortable. Go get him. Go get him. Just like that little girl did to me. Put her little finger in my belt. Go do the exact same thing. Sit down, buddy. Let me tell you something.
You don't ever have to drink again as long as you live. You don't ever have to feel that loneliness that you feel right now and that fear and that depression. You don't ever have to feel that way again because I can tell you there's a power out there greater than you that will fix what's wrong with you. I'm not talking about religion. I am talking about real Texas-sized power. The book says, Lack of Power is My Dilemma.
It pays on page 45. How am I going to find some power? That's exactly what this book's about. And that's what we're going to do. Am I going to win every one of them? No. But let me get it straight with you. If I could fix everybody in this room, I'd be pretty rich on top of everything else. You know what I'm saying? But the truth is, I can reach some of you guys and some of you guys I can't touch. And some of you cats, you can reach somebody that I can't touch.
It takes every single person in this room. That sounds so hokey, but it's the truth. Every single one of us, shoulder to shoulder, in this trench, carrying the message of hope. Young adults, we need you in this fellowship. You don't have young adult alcoholism. You've just got alcoholism. You can reach a young adult where nobody else can reach. Make sense? I've said it, I think, every time I've spoken for years.
Women. Toughest thing out of the hospital where I work, when we send somebody back to an area and they're looking for sponsors, the toughest thing for us to do is hook them up with women in their area because there's not a lot of women out there staying sober. They may be staying sober, but they come to the fellowship for a period of time and then they split. We don't have a lot of strong women out there mentoring other women.
We need more spiritual mentors out there. A few less junior therapists. Dig? For every woman in this room that stayed in this fellowship, I love you. Bless you. For every old timer that's taken a shot,
[00:55:00]
a stupid pot shot by somebody calling them a big book thumper and making fun of them for the fact that they're carrying the message, you with us? For everybody that stood up in a business meeting and said, you know, I think we ought to look at the formats of our meeting and perhaps change some of these stupid, stoop, you hear me? Stupid, stupid open discussion meetings. Why don't we turn some of those into literature based meetings so we can talk about some of Bill Wilson's literature.
We can talk about the message that saved alcoholics for a lot of years. You follow us? And then everybody wants to take shots at them because they suggested that. For everyone that's ever taken a shot, bless you. Bless you. The other book that I read sometimes says that if you're going to stand for something spiritual, you're going to take some shots. And if you're around a fellowship and you're not taking any shots, you might want to consider the message you're carrying.
I love every one of you and I'm honored to know you. Bless every one of you. Thanks.