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Source: DICOBE-00608 – Marce W – TRI STATE CONF – 1974-11-08.mp3 File: dicobe-00608-marce-w-tri-state-conf-1974-11-08.mp3 Duration: 01:07:20
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I share a mutual friend, Ruth M., and Ruth had many, many, many kind things to say about Marcy, and I really feel like I've known her over ten years, and I really haven't, just known her about four years, but she's a great Al-Anon, and we're delighted and thrilled to have her with us today. Marcy M. from Middle Hickory. Thank you, Hazel. Wasn't Kathy wonderful? That doesn't speak for what the fellowship can do for a person. I've never heard it before. You can take any problem that you have and apply the Twelve Steps to that problem, and it'll solve your problem. I really believe this, and have, ever since I got here.
My name is Marcy W., and I'm a grateful, recovering Al-Anon. Hi. It's great to be here. I think that Bob and I attended our first Tri-State about fifteen years ago, and it's always a thrill and a joy to come back, see so many old friends and meet new ones, and be a part of each of you. As Kathy was talking, I was thinking about way back in my teenage life. Probably forty years ago, my father needed Alcoholics Anonymous, and it wasn't there. My mother needed Al-Anon, and it wasn't there. And I needed Allotine, and it wasn't there.
And I guess if I've, you know, they talk about speakers having platforms. Well, I'm not a speaker, and I'm glad that I don't have to be. I'm grateful that all I have to do is share my experiences with you. And always before I get up to try to share my experiences with you, I ask God to pull from my experiences whatever somebody sitting out there needs to hear. So, we're going to see what happens today.
And it's always interesting, you know, when you do this, because I don't really know, but I know that my father knows, and he knows each of you and what you need. And this takes a lot of the burden off of trying to say the right thing or trying to do the right thing, and it gives me a lot of freedom that I need. Kathy was talking about being dependent, and something came to me that I learned along the way in this program. I was very dependent, and I needed approval and love from people so badly.
And I found out that we're dependent only as long as we don't have answers. And when we have answers, then we don't have to be dependent any longer. Then we can release with love and leave people free. But I guess if I have a thing to talk about, a thing that I have been trying to talk about since I've been in this program, if I have a platform like speakers have, it would be the togetherness, the love and understanding that the three fellowships have together, A.A., Al-Anon, and Al-Ateem.
We each have our own program, even though it's based on the same. We might apply it a little differently. But to me, I have not been able to see any difference. When an alcoholic comes into the program, they have to give up the bottle. When an Al-Anon comes into the program, they give up the alcoholic. They have to learn to release them with love and leave them free, put them in God's hands and A.A. And Al-Ateems need to do the same and learn to live their own life and apply it to themselves.
And I love the unity that we have between the three fellowships, the unity, the love, the understanding, and the acceptance. And I guess that that's what I've been pulling for ever since I've been here because this is what I needed and what I wanted, and I still need it. And I think that we have it here in the South, in Louisiana and Texas, more than any place I've been. And it makes me very proud to say that I am an Al-Anon and I am from the Lake Whitney group in Texas.
[00:05:06]
And I didn't always want to be an Al-Anon. I liked what the A.A.s had, and I thought that I couldn't have it unless I was an alcoholic. And I used to want to get in those closed meetings and find out what they had. And the Al-Anons back there, when I got here, they weren't very happy. And they did not have the attraction and the aliveness and the exuberance that I wanted. And they were a bunch of sad fags. And it was not very appealing to me. And so that's the reason that I wanted to be an alcoholic. And I thought, how am I ever going to get what you have?
And our beautess is here today, and I see her laughing, so I've got to tell this. This hadn't been too many years ago, maybe ten, eleven. And I knew my place was in Al-Anon. And what I would do, I would learn from A.A. and I would read that big book and I would study it and I would apply it and practice it. And I learned along the way that you didn't have any corner on God, and that if I was willing to go to any lengths to work your program, I could have what you had. And I was getting it, and I liked it. And then I would, but my place was in Al-Anon, and I knew this, and I stayed there. And that was my place to work and to be. And I accepted that.
But I said to our beautess one day, I said, she was wanting me to do something in Al-Anon. She's always pushed me, trying to get me to do things in Al-Anon. And I said, I don't even like Al-Anons very much, our beautess. And she said, oh, yes you do. And I said, no, I really don't. And she said, well, let me tell you this. An Al-Anon is a person that takes this twelve-step program and applies it in their life and practices the principles in their affairs.
Now, do you like people like that? And I said, yeah, they're the kind that turn me on. That's the kind of people I like. And she said, well, that's what Al-Anons are. So from that day till this, I've been very proud that I am an Al-Anon and very grateful that she told me the difference in what an Al-Anon was and the spouse of an alcoholic. I did not particularly like to be the spouse of an alcoholic because I felt like I was a nobody. And Al-Anon helped me to be a person with some roots and some meaning and a purpose in my life.
And I had never had this before. And that's what Al-Anon did for me. And I want you to know that I'm wearing today a locket that was given to me by one of my AA friends. And inside the locket, it says 20 years in Al-Anon. And I'm very grateful that I've had 20 years in this program because it taught me how to live. You see, I had a living problem all my life, and I never knew how to live life. My father drank when I was a teenager, and I didn't like what I saw. I didn't like what it did to him, and I didn't like what happened to our family. And Olga was so right when she says, if you stay, you all get sick.
And, of course, as a teenager, I had no choice but to stay. And I began to get sick. I didn't like alcohol and said I was never going to drink it and never was going to go with anybody that drank. And you know what I did. I did it. And I married one of those things not knowing, not having any idea that Bob was an alcoholic. We both know today he was an alcoholic when we married. I know today that I had all of the insecurities, the dependencies, all of the defects, the self-centeredness, the resentments, all of the things that make up an alcoholic personality.
I already had them, caught them from my dad way back there. So I was a sitting duck for this program. I needed it all my life. I have a lot of alcoholics in my family. I told you I had my father, and I married one. But, you know, he's not the guy I married. He's so much better than he was that I've got a new husband. So he's not even the same fella that I married. I have an ex-son-in-law that's an alcoholic and a present son-in-law that's an alcoholic.
[00:10:09]
I have a brother-in-law that I've been trying to work with for a couple of years. That's got a little sobriety in the program now. And a niece. So I really needed to come here, but, you know, I didn't want to. And if I had had my way, I would have never gotten here. My self-will was really running right. Bob drank for the first 15 years that we were married, and I had given up. I had lost all hope that he would ever quit drinking.
I had lost all hope that we could have a marriage or have anything together, and I reached a state of despair and loneliness, just like the alcoholic does. And I surrendered to the fact that he was hopeless and it was useless, and that's all I knew to do. But I knew he would go down to the bottom, and I didn't see any need in us going, us, I meant myself and three children, going with him. So I made the decision to leave. Now, I had made this decision many times and made many threats, but I always kept hanging around, waiting for a little bit of money to make my getaway.
But the longer I hung around, the worse it got, and it finally got bad enough that money or no money, I had to go. And I went home to mother because she was the only one that would have me. I did everything that I could do not to have to go home to mother with three children and a practicing alcoholic father. You know, it's a pretty sad state of affairs when you have to go home at the age of 35 with three kids because nobody else wants you. Now, that's having a life that's rather unmanageable, wouldn't you think? But I couldn't see that because he had done it to me.
And oh, the sad, sad songs I used to sing. Why did you do it to me? If you loved me, you wouldn't do it. Why, God, why? Well, it didn't take me too many years in the program to find out why. I needed to be exposed to all of this to get me to my knees and get me here so that I could become teachable and find a way to live life with joy and beauty and serenity and some peace of soul and mind. I never had this, never knew the meaning of any of these words, never experienced it in my life. And I know today I never could have. So my father knew what I have need of, just like your father has known what you have need of.
So whatever it takes to get us here, that's okay. And that's just the way it's supposed to be. I was so sick and didn't know it and messed up that I told my friends that Bob was sorry and no good and thought I was telling the truth and told my children that he was sick and thought I was lying. Bob had, Bob was a running drunk and he'd been gone about three months when I decided that I had to leave. And he was in Jackson, Mississippi, holed up in a motel so the word drifted back to me.
And I decided that it was time to go. I wrote his family and told them the truth for the first time in our married life. One of the eras, the great eras that I committed before getting here was protecting, lying, covering up for the alcoholics drinking. Not only my husband's, but I took on the responsibility of covering up for my brother-in-laws too. And the times that I had gotten out and run them both down and tried to sober them up to get them to their mothers for Christmas. And went in with a smile on my face pretending that everything was all right.
I lived this way for 15 or 20 years. Even in the program I lived this way. In pretense. In pretense, in sham, lying and covering up, protecting, rather than letting the alcoholic suffer the consequences of their own actions so they would have the privilege of the suffering that it takes for them to be willing to go to any lengths to get this program.
[00:15:21]
But that was because I did not know. And we cannot hold ourselves responsible for the things that we did not know to do. And I thought that I was doing the right thing and I thought this was being a good wife. But for the first time in our married life I told him the truth. I told him how much he was drinking, that he didn't have a job and not only did he not have one, he said he couldn't get one. And there was no way that we could go on any longer begging and borrowing.
There was no way that I could stay. So they could have him back. I did not want him any longer. I was sick and tired of babysitting with a baby giant. And he was more trouble, I thought, than my three children put together. And, you know, we kind of make fun of the way we tended to him and looked after him and watched him. But I tell you the truth, one night, just one night, I went to sleep before he did and I didn't take the cigarette out of his hand when he passed out, you know.
And you know what happened? I woke up two hours later and the whole bed was on fire. So, you know, you do have to sort of watch him and tend to him if you even value your own life. I'll never forget that night. It's funny now, but I woke up and the whole bed was on fire and I jumped out of the bed and kicked him out. And ran to the kitchen, got pans and buckets of water and poured it on the mattress, the bedclothes, to put the fire out.
And we lived in an upstairs apartment. This was a double bed size mattress. And I took that mattress, a big old heavy thing, and jerked it off that bed and had it all the way down the steps outside on the grass with the hose on it. And then I came back into the house and Bob was standing in the corner in a stupor and he had never moved. And after the crisis was all over, he said, is there anything I can do for you?
This is the story of our married life. He never could function or perform, you know, in an emergency. And I found out it was better if he wasn't around when there were emergencies. It just went better because not only did I have to handle the emergency, but I had to try to tend to him too. So it was just better, you know, if he went out of town when it was time to move. Or when anything happened, it was just better if he was elsewhere.
I would like to report to you today that it's not that way. And it's great. In the last few years, when there have been some emergencies and some problems and some trials, and there have been, with our family and in many areas of our life, he has been a support to me and a help. And this is one of the greatest gifts that he has given me, that I just know I have his support and his help in time of trouble and need.
And to me, I would like to submit this to you as being a real man. And this program, through the grace of God, has given me the kind of husband I always wanted. He is a real man today, and I'm proud of him. I didn't mean to say that. It's just one of those things that just came out. I'd like to tell you, too, that if Bob had done what I wanted him to when we got here to this program, I would have never gotten the program.
I was driven to it because he wouldn't conform and follow my instructions. You see, I always thought I knew what was best for him and everybody else. And we call this self-righteousness. And I was full of it. And it's awful hard to admit you're wrong when you always know you're right. And that's the way I was when I came. I didn't ever intend to come. I told you I had left him and written his family a letter.
[00:20:00]
And Bob's family took him to a psychiatrist in Dallas from the advice of the family physician. And the psychiatrist said that he was crazy. And they called and reported that to me long distance. We were living in Denver, Colorado. And I said, oh, is that all they told you? I've known that for a long time. What else is new? I said, did they say anything to you about him being? An alcoholic. And they said no.
I said, well, what did they say about his drinking? And they said, well, the psychiatrist said that he drank too much because of those terrible war years and those terrible war experiences. He was a prisoner of war for two or three years. And that he was going to have to be confined in a mental institution for at least a year and a half before he would be able to return to society and drink normally again.
So, you see, I thought that Bob was going to be locked up for a year and a half. And I have to tell you the truth. I was absolutely delighted. I was thrilled to death that I would not have to be responsible for him for a year and a half. And my mind started working. Well, I won't say anything right now about it. But what I will do, they'll get him in that mental institution. And then I will divorce him.
And then I will never have to see him again. And I'll never have to have any more trouble as long as I live, if I can. Just get rid of him. So that was my plan. I got home to my mother's house and to my utter amazement, he had arrived in the middle of the same day and called me on the telephone. I thought he was in the nuthouse. And I was in a state of shock. He asked if he could come out to see me and I did not want to see him.
I never could trust my emotions around him. And he always talked me into doing whatever he wanted me to do. So I never trusted myself with him because he always won. And it was a battle of the wills. But he came and to my utter amazement, he was sober, and told me that he had been sober for six weeks in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. Now I wasn't ready for this. I was ready for a fight. I was all braced for all the things that I was going to tell him and that I wasn't going to take him back and I wasn't going to have anything more to do with him.
And not only did he not do that, but he offered to help me and said he understood. Well, he had never understood me in my life. And I had never understood him. He offered me money. And for years all we had done was argue about money. He told me he had a job and for three years he had told me he couldn't get a job. And I'd like to tell you what job he had because this speaks far the surrender and the willingness that he had when he came into this program.
I didn't realize at the time what it took for him to do this, but I do today. He took a job as a salesman with a company that he had owned just to be able to start giving us the money so that we could begin to live. And he offered me all but a hundred dollars of his salary and said you don't have any business living here with the children, with your mother and father. Take this money and go get an apartment.
And I took him up on it and I left him out. And I intended for it to stay that way. But again, my father knew what I had need of and was doing for me what I could not do for myself. And was doing for me what I could not do for myself. The AAs and their wives started calling, coming by, telling me how well he was doing and I told them that was great. He sure did need to do better. And they invited me to meetings and I told them no.
I was entirely too busy. Had too many things to tend to to go to any of the meetings. And besides there wasn't anything wrong with me. I didn't need to go. That I was going to be very busy getting my life in order and taking some schooling and going to work
[00:25:00]
and being that sad martyr, you know. Having to shoulder all the responsibility I thought and support three children. Oh, I was a sad sack. A real sad sack. But I'd always sort of conformed resentfully in my life because I was a great people pleaser. I had to have people's love and approval. I never knew how to get it but I sure worked at it. Never knew how to say no. After several weeks there in this apartment and Bob trying to sneak back in and me ordering him out again.
One day he, I looked around and here he was with an arm load of clothes. And I looked at him and said, what in the hell are you doing here? And it just, you know, I'd always been very meek. I'd never said anything like that. And I think I scared him to death. He was standing there with this arm load of clothes and he said, well, I've just been carrying all this stuff around in the back of my car and it's just ruining and you have this apartment with these closets.
And I thought maybe you'd let me hang some of my things in the closet. And I said, I will do no such thing. You get the hell out of here right now. But you know, this ate on me inside. I did not like what I had become. And when the people in the program would call and I would be rude to them, I did not like what I was saying and doing and it bothered me. It bothered me a lot. And one day, one of our twin girls that's married to her second alcoholic, thank God they're in the program today.
She was eight years old at the time. She looked up at me with tears in her eyes and said, Mommy, why can't Daddy live with us? See, I told them that Daddy was sick and going to be in hospital. And they couldn't understand. He didn't look sick and he wasn't in a hospital and they didn't understand why Daddy wasn't living with us. Well, I got all flustered, you know, and nervous and said, well, there's just not room for Daddy.
You know, we just got this two-bedroom apartment and Sandy and I have to have one room and you and your sister have to have the other room and there's just not room for Daddy. And Susan looked up at me with tears in her eyes and said, Mommy, I tell you what we'll do. We'll sleep on the couch and let Daddy have our room if you'll let him come back. A little child shall leave us. And God used this little child to open the door for me so that I could have an excuse to let Bob back into our life.
Now, for a number of years in the program, I thought and said from the podium that this was the reason that I took Bob back. You know, it takes a long time to get real honest down deep inside. At least it has for me. And one day, as I was talking from behind the podium, the truth came out. And the truth is that I had gotten myself in a corner. Have you ever gotten yourself in a corner and didn't know how to get out?
And I had made such rash statements as if I ever get rid of him, I will never take him back and I am not about to ever take him back and I had taken such a firm stand that even though I wanted to take him back, I didn't know how to. So I used my daughter and my family as an excuse to take my husband back. Now, what would you call that? But a deep, deep inner illness that I didn't even know I had. But shortly after that, Bob's sponsor, Henry, called and asked me to dinner.
And I accepted. And after I accepted, and the reason I accepted is because I had begun to feel bad how I was treating these people that were nice to me. And after I accepted, Henry said, by the way, Bob's coming too. Would it be okay if he picked you up? And I said, well, sure. We are on speaking terms. So Bob picked me up that night. And here were the three people. And here were the three people, the three men, that had made a 700-mile round trip to carry Bob the message of AA, to share with him their experience, strength, and hope that he, too, could live and be sober, and their three wives.
[00:30:18]
And I was impressed. I don't know whether they purposely impressed me or not, but I was one of those snobs that had to be impressed, because I didn't want to go and associate with you people. And they put on the W. linen tablecloth and put out the silver and the china and the good food and the good conversation, and I found myself relaxing and sitting at ease and thinking, this isn't going to be such a bad evening after all.
I found myself laughing and interested in what they were talking about, their drunk escapades and the program, and I liked it. Within a few minutes after dinner, one of them came up to me and said, by the way, we're all going to a meeting tonight. Wouldn't you like to go? Well, no, I really wouldn't like to go, but as I told you, I had always conformed resentfully, so I conformed resentfully again, and that's the way I got to you people. I liked what I heard, and I liked what I saw, and I liked what I felt.
But I didn't think I could get into it, because I was afraid you would talk me into taking him back, and I didn't want him back, so I wouldn't go. But a great thing happened one night. After a meeting, Bob asked if he could take me home, and he did, and he came up to the apartment and we talked. I think Bob had been sober about two or two and a half months at this time, and he had a program of recovery that he was living and applying in his life, you see, and I didn't have one, but he did, and I can't say for sure that Bob knew what he was doing.
I'm not sure that he had gotten to the ninth step. I don't know whether his sponsor told him to do this or whether God just pushed him into it, but Bob took a ninth step with me that night. It took me a while to know what it was that he was doing, but I want to tell you what happened, because I think this is such an important thing, and home reconstruction is a lifetime job, I believe, and if you got here in the mess in your family situation that we got here in, it's going to take a lot of time and a lot of doing to get fixed up, and this was the beginning of getting fixed up inside.
Bob told me all the things that he could remember that he had done while he was drinking that he was sorry for, and I was amazed that he was sorry for anything he'd done. He'd never said he was before, and then he asked me to tell him what else had he done that had bothered me or hurt me, and this was my chance, and I let him have it with both barrels. I have looked back and wondered, you know, why didn't I do this before, and why did I have the freedom to do it then when I never had been able to do it before? I found out that the reason was because I didn't have anything to lose.
I didn't want him back anyway. I said to myself, so why couldn't I tell the old boy just exactly how I felt and just exactly how it was, and I have found out in the years that we've had in the program that when I get to the point that I don't think I've got anything anyway and don't have anything to lose, then I can really get honest and tell it like it is, and I think I've grown a little in this area because I have found out that I don't have to suffer that much, and I don't have to wait until it gets that bad. I have found out that I can stand still and not run and tell it like it is, how I feel, and let the chips fall where they may, knowing that in doing this, in going through the confrontation or getting mad or the hollering or the crying or whatever it might be, that if we've got this program and we're both trying to live it and apply it in our life, that these are necessary things to go through, knowing that when you see each other and accept each other as you really are, then you are working toward a better and higher situation and experience and relationship with each other than you've ever been able to have before. So these times have been necessary more than once, but this was the first one for us, and this is part of the home reconstruction that I wanted to talk about this afternoon.
[00:35:10]
After I had let him have it and told him all the things that I had inside of me, buried so deep that I thought I would never be able to forgive or forget, of course there was a great release and a freedom that I didn't know I'd ever have. But the great thing was that we were communicating for the first time maybe ever in our life together. He wasn't hollering and I wasn't crying. We were listening to each other, and this is a healing experience to have with each other that is a necessary thing to do.
And after I had finished and he says, is there anything else? And I couldn't think of anything. Then he started telling me the things that I had done that he didn't like. Now I told you that he had a program he was living and I didn't, but he had set the pace for me, and I dared not listen to him because he had set the example. So whichever one of you has a good hold on the program, and when the time is right, A.A., Al-Anon, or Al-Ateem, I think this is a necessary step in our recovery program to do this.
Our big book talks about clearing away the wreckage of the past, and this is part of clearing away the wreckage of the past, telling it like it is, getting it all out in the open, out on the table, examining it, looking at it, and then letting it go. I did not realize how valuable this was in our recovery until years later when I look back, and as soon as I saw it, I started talking about it and have continued to talk about it ever since.
Now we have people do it a little more refined, like you know, and we have them sit down, the man and the woman and the children, and write out their grudge list or their things they don't like about the other ones in the family, and then we call them together. And you need somebody usually to serve as a referee, maybe a couple, maybe another family, or at least one person that you both love and respect, that you know you can trust, and get it all out on the table.
There's no way that we could have begun to build anew on a firm foundation in a marriage relationship unless we had done this. There's no way we could have just covered it up like, you know, a cat uses a sandbox to cover up the mess. There's no way we could have just covered it up and it come out all right, because the resentments inside me were eating on me like a cancer, destroying my insides. My negative emotions had absolutely taken over and were consuming and controlling my life.
So this had to be, and my father knew that it had to be for me. And there was a period very shortly after that, within a few days, we went back together. And there was a period that Bob was very kind and understanding and loving toward me, that I needed very much to be healed. And I'm grateful for this period. You know, he did things that he has never done before or since. He would stay in the kitchen with me and dry dishes and talk to me.
He would empty the trash for me. He would do things that it's not necessary for him to do now, but it was necessary then for me. Because I needed some love and support and the blessing that was the healing thing that God was doing for me through my husband. Then it comes the time that you've got to start working this program, you know, in your family life. We had been back together a few months and I loved the meetings and I loved the program.
And I got into it with both feet and I just couldn't read enough or do enough. And I would make cakes and wash coffee cups and do anything they asked me to do. Just whatever needed to be done, just ask me. You didn't even have to ask me. I'd do it.
[00:40:02]
I loved it. I had found my way and I knew it. And one night we had an argument, a family squabble. And it was over a little puppy dog that our 15-year-old daughter had and she always loved dogs. And she'd gone to the pound and gotten this little dog and we were living in a rent house. So grateful to have a rent house. So when we got here, we didn't have anything. We didn't have any furniture. We had one car that we owed more money on than we could sell it for.
I got out of Denver, Colorado with a sewing machine, the kids' bicycles and a television set. And that was it. So we didn't have anything. But we had a rent house and we had each other. But the main thing is we had a program of recovery that we were both trying to live in our life. But Bob had gotten upset because the little dog messed on the floor in front of his closet. And he said we had to get rid of the dog.
That he was not going to be able to afford to pay for the carpet in that rent house. And that that little dog would ruin the carpet in the house. Now this is alcoholic thinking. I'm sure you understand. And we were going to have to get rid of the dog. And here a 15-year-old went to her room crying. The twins that were eight were scared to death and I sent them to bed. Bob got into bed and I went to the kitchen washing dishes.
Just steaming inside. Just hating him and resenting him and talking to God and upset. And why had he done this after all we'd been doing. And I just was dying. And I was slinging those dishes right and left. And all of a sudden the light turned on up here. And I thought something's wrong. This is not the way it's supposed to be after sobriety. What am I doing? What's Bob doing? Where are we missing the boat?
And all of a sudden I knew. It's awful easy to practice those principles down at the AA and Al-Anon club. It's awful easy to do it when you go make a 12-step call and carry the message on somebody else in their house in their mess. But when you've got to live in your house in your mess, then that's where the acid test comes. And I knew that I had not been practicing these principles at home. And that's where it hurts.
And that's where it's tough. And that's where nobody knows. And you don't get any credit. You don't get any pats on the back. You just do it. And it works. So I said a prayer. And I asked God to help me. And I asked God to put the words in my mouth and teach me what to say. And I took a deep breath and walked in the bedroom and said to Bob, I want to talk to you. Well, he had his head in the book, and he continued to look at that book the whole time I was talking.
He wouldn't look up. He wouldn't pay any attention to me. And about four or five times, I just wanted to turn and walk out and say, to hell with you. If you don't care any more than this, I'll be damned if I'm going to keep on trying. That's what I felt inside. But that's not what my program was teaching me to do. So I had to follow the instructions that my program was teaching me to do. And I said again, I want to try to understand your reasons for saying what you did.
I want you to listen to me about my reasons for feeling the way I do. And I want to try to explain to you how Sandy feels. And I kept on talking. And about that time, I looked and discovered he had the book turned upside down. He was hiding behind it. And finally he said, Well, go on in there and tell her I'm sorry. She can keep the dog. And God put these words in my mouth. I did not have the wisdom to do it.
And I said, well, I'll be happy to do that. But don't you think it would be better if you went and told her yourself? And he said, I guess so. So he went in there. And he stayed about 30 minutes. And to this day, I don't know what transpired. And it doesn't make any difference. Except I know this. When I went in to kiss Sandy goodnight, she wasn't crying anymore. And then when I went in to tell Bob, And then when I went in to tell Bob goodnight, I said, aren't you glad you did it? And he said yes.
[00:45:00]
So that's the way God works in our lives, in this program. And he can take any problem, any situation that we have, if we give it to him, and work this program, and find the step that applies to this problem, and it works out. And it has continued to do this ever since that time. There's been so many things along the way that have been so graphic. Kathy was talking about not feeling like she fit, like she was on the outside looking in.
And I felt this way for years in the program, Kathy, for years. And then I found a secret, that you weren't excluding me, I was excluding myself. This program is all inclusive, never exclusive. And I found out that if I could accept you for free, and love you just like you were, without an expectation of any kind from you, then you would do the same for me. And that was my first key. My second key was this, that if I wanted to be a part of, rather than a part from, I had to jump in there and work those steps for myself.
And as I began to do this, and I got into every step at depth, and when I did this, I began to see that I was accepted. That I was not on the outside looking in any longer, that I had something to share. I had something to give as well as receive. I had sat there and received for years, but I just received, and I didn't give, and I blocked the flow. And it's a continual receiving and giving out and putting out.
It's a continual process that we must do. And that's how you get to feel like you're part of. I've heard some people talk about the inner circle. There really isn't one, except that's it. And if you want to be in there, that's what you do. And that's all you have to do, and then it just happens. And it's a beautiful, exciting experience, wherever you go, to know that you're a part of. You never have to be alone again. Another interesting thing, I'm trying to hit some highlights of the steps along the way in the family reconstruction.
I was gung-ho Eleanor, I thought, did everything they asked me to do. And I was really making some 12-step calls on some of these gals, and especially this one that wouldn't take Johnny back. And I had done everything that I could do to get her to take Johnny back. And after about the 6th or 7th or 8th time to try, I invited her over to my house and decided that I would ask Bob to help me with her because I was still in this stage that I knew what was best for everybody.
I had a long time getting out of that phase. And I just knew that, you know, if she took Johnny back, everything would be fine. Well, this girl, her name's Bonnie, and she finally let me know that she didn't want Johnny back if he never took a drink for the rest of his life. But she still didn't want him back. So I finally accepted the fact that Bonnie wasn't going to take Johnny back. But I felt better about it because I had carried the message to her, and I had done what I could do. And I knew that the results were going to have to be left up to God, that I couldn't do it.
But I, they didn't just come to me one time to try to help me. They had to come time and time again to break down this wall, this barrier, this cocoon that I had built around myself so that I would never get hurt again. And I had done this for her so I was free. Bob asked me a very pertinent question after Bonnie left. He said, Marceline, have you ever thought what would have happened to you if I had continued in the program and stayed sober and you had not gone back to me and come into this way of life?
Well, no, I had never thought about it because I had shut it out. I didn't want to think about what would have happened to me if this had not happened in my life. I knew that I almost missed this whole way of life just by a sheer thread, I said, but now I know it was by the grace of God that I didn't miss it. But I took a look at what would have happened to me. I knew by this time that happiness, peace, serenity, security were an inside job. And I knew that I had to get fixed up inside or I never would be okay. My outside world would never be okay.
[00:50:20]
And I was in the process of trying to get fixed up inside and things were happening. And I was different in here. And I was grateful for the change. And I knew that the things that I used to think would make me happy wouldn't get it, you know. I knew that if I had been lucky enough to have married a millionaire that I still wouldn't have been okay in here. And I knew that was where it counted. And my relationship with God was the most important thing in my life at that time. And I knew I never could have had this if I hadn't come back. So I began to take an honest look at where would I have been and what would I have done. And I felt terribly sorry for myself. I was a great martyr. I played the martyr role just as long as I could and didn't even know I was doing it.
But I saw that I would have been full of self-pity, full of dishonesty, full of fear. And I saw myself working. And all of a sudden a picture flashed into my mind just like it was on color TV. I saw myself walking home from work that day carrying two sacks of groceries because I knew I wouldn't have money to have a car. And my twin girls were walking along behind me. Mommy, I'm hungry. What are we going to have for supper, you know? I don't have a new dress and all these problems.
And then I looked up and Bob was driving down the street in a red convertible. And sitting by his side was a blonde wearing a mink stole. And you know I needed to see this. This was good for me because up until that time he had not done anything to suit me. Now he'd been sober, you know. And he'd done a few things to suit me because we had a lovely home with a swimming pool. We had two cars in the garage. And materially, you know, things were fine. But he still wasn't suiting me because I was a perfectionist just like you alcoholics. And I learned a lesson that day that I hope I never forget. And I said, oh girl, you better start being grateful for what you've got.
And you better start accepting this man and loving him just like he is and thanking God that he's sober and that's enough. And this was the beginning of a change in me where I was able to get rid of the negative reactions and the negative emotions and feelings and put the positive ones in their place. And this is the thing that I began to practice on a daily basis. And some other things happened along the way. Soon after that I had my spiritual awakening in the program that put me right back in the steps at depth. I knew at that time that I had been toying with the steps. Bob was on a dry drop. I don't have time to get into it because there's another thing I want to talk about for a few minutes.
But through the adversity that I was suffering, I turned to God. Bob was no longer my God. I took him down off the top shelf and put God up there. And if you wonder what your God is, ask yourself, what do you give your attention to? What do you think about? What do you live for? And whatever that is, that's your God. And he had been my God. And from that day forward, I put God up there on that top shelf and I took Bob down off that pedestal. And we had some rough times because of that because he didn't understand. And that's the night that I turned him over to God and realized that I had never really taken the third step in its entirety. I had never taken any step really even to the best of my ability.
But now I had a new understanding of the steps. And I realized that even though I had been working the first three steps of the program on a daily basis, I had never turned Bob over to God. I still thought he was my responsibility because he had been my responsibility all these years. And I carried that old idea into this new way of life and it won't work. So I turned Bob over to God and I said, God, whatever you want to do with him is okay with me. You know that I've got to have this way of life and this program. And he didn't even want me to go. Bob was on a drive that didn't even want me to go to meetings. And he got the Bible out and read to me where a wife is supposed to be subservient to her husband, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
[00:55:18]
And I knew that I had to release him with love and love him for free and accept him again just like he was. And I knew that God was going to have to work it out. I could not. I was absolutely powerless again. I was as powerless or more powerless over a sober alcoholic than I was a drunk one. And sometimes the times sober were harder than the times drunk because he knew what he was doing and he was getting rather demanding. I could get by with anything when he's drunk. So it wasn't always easy straight, you know. There were lots of things that we had to go through and work out.
And with this particular incident, I finally went back into the room after crying for a couple of hours and told him that I had made a decision. I had turned him over to God. And he squirmed in his chair and said, now wait just a minute. I don't know whether I want you to do that or not. He didn't even know what to do with himself when I released him with love. And shortly after that, well then, my life was changing and continued to change. And for the first time in my life I had time to find out about me and to look at me. And I had time to take a written and searching fearless moral inventory and to do a fifth step and to go on with the steps at depth. And it wasn't long until, you know, we were going back to meetings. The dry drunk was over and God had worked it out just like it needed to be.
But then, Bob thought I didn't love him. I left him so free that he thought I didn't even love him. And this happens a lot of times in the program. And it needs to be talked about. You know, we don't have any balance. When we start doing something, we start doing it so much because we've got to put all of our strength and all of our effort, conscious effort into it to make it work. And so we're doing it too much and it's this way.
Finally, the scales began to balance a little bit. And I knew what to say and what not to say and what to do and what not to do. And I knew that he really thought I didn't love him and he thought I didn't care. So I began to let him know in many ways with words and actions that I did love him, that I did appreciate him, that I did care. So that was another phase that took a while to get through. The next phase was this. I had left him free and I was loving him for free and I could accept any kind of behavior from him and I could still love him. But he wasn't doing me that way. And I didn't like it. And I wanted him to release me with love and leave me free.
And I would say to him, honey, can't you just turn me over to God? Why don't you just release me to God and the program? It'll be okay. And one day when I said this, I think I had said it once too many times, he said to me, you and your damn releasing. I don't even know what you're talking about. And do you know that I knew he meant it? And I began to see that no one knows what you're talking about until they've done it. They only know after they've done it. But it is an important thing that each of us has to do. I believe that Kathy said that, or Cliff said to me, one, that Kathy got along just fine when he released her. It was Cliff that said that to me before the meeting.
We have to release people, our children, our spouses, our mothers, our fathers, whatever, for us to give them the freedom to find their own way and to make their own mistakes and let them fall flat on their face. And then they're going to learn their lesson from it so they won't have to repeat it again. They're never going to learn it as long as we try to run their life. So with this, I knew that he didn't know. But because I had been through it by holding on to him in those years before, I knew what he was going through. And I said, okay, girl, the shoe's on the other foot. Now you're just going to have to live with it and you're just going to have to bear it a while.
And it wasn't an easy thing, but because I knew and understood where he was, it made it bearable. Bearable. And one day, a few years later, I was sitting in Chuck and Elsa C.'s living room, and there was a group of people there having an impromptu meeting. And I heard Bob say that he hated to admit this, but that he had been learning some lessons from Al-Anon. And he had been learning something about
[01:00:18]
releasing with love. And he had had a hard time doing this with his children, but the hardest thing that he had ever done in his life was learn how to release me. That's the beauty and the wonder and the glory of this program, that God teaches us what we need, and it does work out if we're willing to work for it and wait for it. I want to tell you a little bit about my father. When I got into the program, I knew my father was an alcoholic, and I began to try to get him to meetings, and I got him to one, and he said that was great for those that needed it. He didn't need it.
My father had been voted the Most Outstanding Scout in West Texas, the Man of the Year. And within a few short years after that, he was lying in the alley with alcoholic convulsions, never expected to walk again, had lost his job, his self-respect, his property, his prestige, and everything. And it was just like a no good to me. And I had hated my father, not only for what I said or thought he had done to me, but what he had done to my mother and what my mother put up with.
And I married and got out, but it was a real thing at a family gathering, the things that happened and the way he drank. And because of this, I had these resentments and this hate that I knew I had to get rid of. So you told me what to do. You said to pray for him. So I started praying for my father every day. I would say a prayer. Sometimes I didn't even mean it. Sometimes I'd just say, God bless him, he sure does need it. And I could just say it between clenched teeth. Sometimes I could say it and really mean it.
And sometimes I'd say, God, in some way, somehow, let somebody help my dad. He needs it so bad. Every day for eight years, I said at least one prayer for my father. And God saw fit that I was in the right place at the right time when my father asked for help. I had no idea that I could be a part of this. I just wanted somebody to help him. And we were at a party over at my mother's. My mother had just kept my children for me for a week. So I'd gone over to meet her friends and my dad was giving a barbecue. And when I got there and dad wasn't present, I didn't even ask where he was. When he wasn't around, you know, he was drunk and passed out.
So we went on with the party and I heard a loud crash in his drinking room. I immediately wanted to jump up and see about him, but I remembered how it embarrassed him for me to see him drunk. So I sat still and some fellows got up and tended to him. And in a few minutes, I knew it was time for me to go home. And I went into the house to gather up my children's clothes. And here was my father walking out of the bathroom. And he was dirty and stinking and unshaven and bleary-eyed. And God had me say this to him. I was unaffected by it. And I was happy and said, Hi, Dad. I sure had a good time at your barbecue, but I've got to go home now.
And he shook his head and said, Where have you been? And I told him. And he said, Come here. I want to talk to you. He put his arms around me and carried me back to his pigpen, his drinking room that he never let anybody go in where he hid his bottles. And he started crying like a baby. And he started telling me how sorry and no good he was. And I can't tell you how grateful, how grateful I was that I could say from the bottom of my heart and mean it. No, Dad, you're not sorry. You're sick. And I know some people that can help you. Will you let me call?
And we called AA that night. And they came. My dad was 73 years old. And they came and they stayed around the clock with him. It was three days before he could make a meeting. And they carried him to his first meeting.
[01:05:05]
I was too sick and too messed up to see the miracle of God in action through you people of Alcoholics Anonymous. I could not see the miracle in my husband's life. But I could see the miracle in my father's life. And I'm sure it's the most beautiful experience that God has given me the privilege to have. I saw people love him sober. I saw him start caring. I saw him get interested in people, caring about how they were, getting outside of himself. I saw the fears drop from him.
We went to the same group. And we'd talk every morning and read the 24-hour book together and talk about the people and the program. My daddy got laid up with a bum leg, started missing meetings. And you know what happened? That old stinking thinking returned and stinking thinking leads to drinking. And my father died a practicing alcoholic. But I can't tell you how grateful I am that we had a good relationship, that I loved him and cared for him and had forgiven him.
And when my mother called and said, your daddy's gone, my first thought was, it's okay, dad, you won't have to drink anymore. So you can see how grateful, how deeply grateful I am for you people because you taught me how to love and forgive my earthly father so my heavenly father could love me. I thank you. I love you. And God bless each and everyone.