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[00:00:02.380 – 00:00:03.820] Thank you everyone for your attention. [00:00:03.820 – 00:00:04.380] Good evening. [00:00:04.380 – 00:00:06.640] Um, my name is David and I'm alcoholic. [00:00:06.640 – 00:00:08.860] David. [00:00:08.860 – 00:00:10.840] And a- and along with Stuart. [00:00:10.840 – 00:00:12.850] Hello everybody, I'm Stuart. [00:00:12.850 – 00:00:13.700] I'm alcoholic.

[00:00:13.700 – 00:00:15.320] I'll see you later for the Q&A. [00:00:15.320 – 00:00:18.920] We're out of London, and we will be, uh, hosting- David … [00:00:18.920 – 00:00:19.520] this evening. [00:00:19.520 – 00:00:20.190] Mark, how are you? [00:00:20.190 – 00:00:21.100] Pretty good. [00:00:21.100 – 00:00:23.720] I'm actually starting a meeting right now, so- Oh. [00:00:23.720 – 00:00:24.160] Who's that?

[00:00:24.160 – 00:00:24.170] … [00:00:24.170 – 00:00:24.600] uh, yeah Mark B. [00:00:24.600 – 00:00:25.310] Hello M.. [00:00:25.310 – 00:00:26.120] Thank you, Mark. [00:00:26.120 – 00:00:36.320] Uh, so this is one of the series of workshops inspired by recoveryspeakers.com, and it's hosted by the Saturday night AA group here in Camberwell, London, SE5. [00:00:36.320 – 00:00:42.340] Our physical meeting is back on track, and we're open every Saturday night at 7:30 if you're ever in London. [00:00:42.340 – 00:00:51.320] Okay, in keeping with AA's traditions, in particular tradition five, each AA group has but one primary purpose: to carry its message to the alcoholics who are still suffering.

[00:00:51.320 – 00:01:01.700] And the main purpose of these workshops is to introduce and/or develop ideas and concepts, and hopefully to encourage participants to do some further investigation [00:01:01.700 – 00:01:02.180] on their own. [00:01:02.180 – 00:01:12.440] We've had a common thread throughout, and it's been a quote from step 10 in our basic text which says, "We have entered the world of the spirit, and that our next function [00:01:12.440 – 00:01:22.780] is to grow in understanding and effectiveness." The audio of tonight's presentation is being recorded, and we pass it over to Mike M. at recoverytapers.com, [00:01:22.780 – 00:01:25.310] and I will put a link for that into the chat as we go through the meeting. [00:01:25.310 – 00:01:29.900] And I'd just like to acknowledge Mike and Debbie for the fa- fantastic work they do over there. [00:01:29.900 – 00:01:39.640] We would like to point out that what is shared at these workshop meetings represents obviously the experience, strength, and hope of AA members, and not to be, not to be taken to represent AA as a whole.

[00:01:39.640 – 00:01:47.700] The 12-step proven program of recovery can be found in our basic textbook titled Alcoholics Anonymous, which we fondly call the big book. [00:01:47.700 – 00:01:57.759] I'm gonna put a version of the, a short version of the set aside prayer just to get us into the, the language we speak, the language of the heart in Alcoholics Anonymous, and I just put that up on the screen [00:01:57.760 – 00:01:58.020] for us. [00:01:58.020 – 00:02:01.460] If you'd like to unmute and join in, we'd appreciate that. [00:02:01.460 – 00:02:02.520] Thank you very much. [00:02:02.520 – 00:02:12.620] So using God as we understand it, God- Right A. please help me to set aside everything I think I know and open my mind [00:02:12.620 – 00:02:14.010] and my experience …

[00:02:14.010 – 00:02:14.430] experience. [00:02:14.430 – 00:02:15.359] Amen. [00:02:15.359 – 00:02:15.860] Amen. [00:02:15.860 – 00:02:17.260] Thank you everyone. [00:02:17.260 – 00:02:18.660] And we, we've just… [00:02:18.660 – 00:02:20.660] If you could put yourselves on mute again, I'd appreciate it. [00:02:20.660 – 00:02:32.500] And just a few moments silence to gather our thoughts, reflect on why we're here, think of those who carry the message to us, and of course those alcoholics who are still suffering and our family members.

[00:02:32.500 – 00:02:39.460] Thank you everyone. [00:02:39.460 – 00:02:41.100] Um, I'll just take that off. [00:02:41.100 – 00:02:42.300] I'd just like to have Drew H. [00:02:42.300 – 00:02:47.740] here, uh, out of An- Atlanta, and Drew's going to be speaking on S.. [00:02:47.740 – 00:02:49.280] Drew, great to have you. [00:02:49.280 – 00:02:50.100] O- over to you. [00:02:50.100 – 00:02:54.480] Thanks.

[00:02:54.480 – 00:02:55.980] Thanks D., appreciate it. [00:02:55.980 – 00:02:58.650] Let me just, uh, get this all situated here. [00:02:58.650 – 00:03:04.040] Screen share this, and put that there. [00:03:04.040 – 00:03:06.410] So hopefully, does everybody see, uh, Dr. [00:03:06.410 – 00:03:07.320] S. up there? [00:03:07.320 – 00:03:09.260] All right. [00:03:09.260 – 00:03:11.220] Uh, all right.

[00:03:11.220 – 00:03:14.760] Uh, hey everybody, my name's Drew, and I am an alcoholic. [00:03:14.760 – 00:03:17.510] Um, uh, I, uh, uh, come… [00:03:17.510 – 00:03:18.600] I'm from Atlanta. [00:03:18.600 – 00:03:20.460] Uh, I do have a home group. [00:03:20.460 – 00:03:24.320] It is the primary purpose group, uh, of Atlanta, Georgia. [00:03:24.320 – 00:03:28.300] Uh, we do two book studies: uh, one on Monday night, one on Tuesday night. [00:03:28.300 – 00:03:30.880] We also have a Friday night speaker meeting.

[00:03:30.880 – 00:03:34.840] Um, I, uh, um, also have a sponsor. [00:03:34.840 – 00:03:41.920] Uh, his name is, uh, Jerry S., uh, from Atlanta, and he's got a sponsor by, uh, uh, n- name of, uh, Bob D. [00:03:41.920 – 00:03:43.000] from Las Vegas. [00:03:43.000 – 00:03:51.680] And I think Bob's got a, a sponsor by Marilyn S., and I think Marilyn's s- is sponsored by like a, a, a ray of sunlight. [00:03:51.680 – 00:03:52.130] I don't know. [00:03:52.130 – 00:03:53.600] Uh, we're looking into that. [00:03:53.600 – 00:03:57.350] But, uh, just wanted to, uh, uh, you know, quickly get that out of the way.

[00:03:57.350 – 00:04:04.420] I also want to get out of the way that I am, uh, a, a student of this, uh, uh, truly beautiful thing called Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:04:04.420 – 00:04:14.440] And, uh, when, you know, when we come across some of this stuff, you know, it's, it, it really affects, you know, uh, a- and gives it, you know, the, the aspect of depth and weight a little [00:04:14.440 – 00:04:18.019] more so than, than, you know, just kinda, um, a, a read. [00:04:18.019 – 00:04:22.280] And, you know, it wasn't until Zoom that all this, uh, you know, was, uh, happening. [00:04:22.280 – 00:04:32.300] So, uh, I got a lot of, uh, to show, and in the words of a, a friend of mine, he says that I, uh, try to put a, uh, liter bottle in a, uh, uh, in a [00:04:32.300 – 00:04:33.960] pint size, uh, bag. [00:04:33.960 – 00:04:35.940] And, uh, so I'm gonna get started.

[00:04:35.940 – 00:04:38.960] Um, so tonight we're looking at Dr. [00:04:38.960 – 00:04:39.820] S.. [00:04:39.820 – 00:04:42.380] Um, full name is, uh, Dr. [00:04:42.380 – 00:04:44.560] William D. S.. [00:04:44.560 – 00:04:49.680] Uh, also what we're gonna cover tonight is some of the aspects of the doctor's opinion. [00:04:49.680 – 00:04:52.560] Uh, we're gonna cover what led to the chapter. [00:04:52.560 – 00:05:02.580] Uh, we're also gonna cover the backstory of the individual, his life, uh, and what w- led to this monumental observation about the alcoholic, and it is

[00:05:02.580 – 00:05:03.820] his theory. [00:05:03.820 – 00:05:11.400] And of course the quote is, "The doctor's theory that we have an allergy interests us," and that's from our, uh, the doctor's opinion in the big book. [00:05:11.400 – 00:05:15.590] So first, how it all came to be, why we have the doctor's opin- [00:05:15.696 – 00:05:16.056] Opinion. [00:05:16.056 – 00:05:22.356] Well, it start- came at the advice of a doctor at Johns H. University, a hospital in Baltimore, Maryland. [00:05:22.356 – 00:05:26.616] Now this was around 1938 when the first drafts of the book were being written. [00:05:26.616 – 00:05:30.256] Uh, in fact, Bill W., Hank P., and Fitz M.

[00:05:30.256 – 00:05:40.296] began to, uh, bring the first drafts of these written chapters, There Is a Solution and W.'s Original S., in order to, uh, seek, uh, advice and [00:05:40.296 – 00:05:46.376] advocate for support along with attaining possible contributors, investors, uh, for the rest of the b- project. [00:05:46.376 – 00:05:53.556] Now what's also interesting to note is this suggestion of seeking outside professional endorsements originally came from Charles B. [00:05:53.556 – 00:05:54.176] T.. [00:05:54.176 – 00:05:57.256] I thought that was, uh, fascinating and, and needed to be said. [00:05:57.256 – 00:06:01.786] You know, it started out with Cabot and it, what kind of went and, uh, grew from there. [00:06:01.786 – 00:06:11.896] Now they sought, uh, counsel from several, uh, noteworthy individuals, uh, in this field, but one person, one person in particular started the ball rolling for the doctor's opinion,

[00:06:11.896 – 00:06:16.956] and it was all at Johns H., uh, University S. of Medicine, and her name is Dr. [00:06:16.956 – 00:06:18.996] Esther L. R.. [00:06:18.996 – 00:06:24.416] Now she is from the, uh, psychiatry department there at the, the medical school. [00:06:24.416 – 00:06:32.875] Now, uh, Bill and Fitz brought her these early drafts of There Is a Solution and W.'s Original S., and they inquired about, you know, supporting the ventures. [00:06:32.875 – 00:06:33.936] They also brought it to a Dr. [00:06:33.936 – 00:06:34.976] Homan, I believe. [00:06:34.976 – 00:06:40.026] Um, but they, it, it sounds as though they ended up leaving the two drafts with Dr.

[00:06:40.026 – 00:06:41.736] R. to be fully analyzed. [00:06:41.736 – 00:06:48.236] Uh, and then later they received a letter response, and that was dated July 18th, 1938. [00:06:48.236 – 00:06:58.256] Now what's fascinating about this is, you know, in this letter she gives the book great commendation so far, also valuable suggestions, uh, and she offers her assistance [00:06:58.256 – 00:07:04.956] with anything in the future, uh, for this, uh, new young fellowship, calling it a privilege to be called upon. [00:07:04.956 – 00:07:12.376] Now transcripts of this, uh, you know, it just kind of, we're not, we're not gonna read the whole thing, but we will read a couple of lines. [00:07:12.376 – 00:07:18.716] Uh, number one, uh, "These two chapters are the embodiment of what makes any book great. [00:07:18.716 – 00:07:25.186] They have something to say, and they have to say it is presented in clear, conscious graphic words.

[00:07:25.186 – 00:07:35.236] It carries the reader on and on with pictures that tell their story in real life fact." And I love this, "There is no attempt at highbrow theories veneered with scientific and [00:07:35.236 – 00:07:38.716] psychological wordiness." So I thought that was, uh, truly amazing. [00:07:38.716 – 00:07:41.295] And then again the final sentence is it. [00:07:41.295 – 00:07:51.316] "I think you should get an A number one physician who has a wide knowledge of the alcoholic medical and social problem to write an introduction." So what are the [00:07:51.316 – 00:07:51.816] odds of that? [00:07:51.816 – 00:07:55.956] So J. 18, 1938 from, uh, uh, Loring R. to William G. [00:07:55.956 – 00:07:56.536] W..

[00:07:56.536 – 00:08:05.186] Now it just so happens nine days later, uh, dated July 27th, uh, 1938, S., uh, started to write a, a letter. [00:08:05.186 – 00:08:10.696] I think m- uh, a lot of us are, uh, familiar with it, and it is "To whom it may concern. [00:08:10.696 – 00:08:15.396] Uh, I have specialized in the treatment of alcoholism for many years," and it's on Charles B. [00:08:15.396 – 00:08:17.116] T. Hospital letterhead. [00:08:17.116 – 00:08:20.276] Now so he, nine days later he writes this. [00:08:20.276 – 00:08:25.236] Now this version will be used, uh, again following the doctor's advice, uh, Dr. [00:08:25.236 – 00:08:31.016] R. as well as, uh, the f- It'll be the first letter in the doctor's opinion but with subtle deviations.

[00:08:31.016 – 00:08:41.276] Uh, so it'll look a lot like this letter, but this particular letter, originally this letter was to accompany the drafts for fundraising because Bill and Hank were not doctors [00:08:41.276 – 00:08:44.636] and therefore their efforts proved hard to convince donors. [00:08:44.636 – 00:08:55.026] In fact, you know, two guys with, you know, several months of sobriety, about a year, uh, plus, um, uh, you know, in, in, in this timeframe, uh, with several other people going around asking [00:08:55.026 – 00:08:57.396] to be, you know, funded for this, this book. [00:08:57.396 – 00:09:01.546] So you can imagine, you know, the people with money are, they're, you know, would look askance at this. [00:09:01.546 – 00:09:05.876] So also note, uh, signature for, uh, this particular letter. [00:09:05.876 – 00:09:15.956] He signed this letter support, um, uh, used to legitimize, you know, the fundraising venture but along with, uh, uh, the two dictated chapters There Is a Solution and, and Bill's

[00:09:15.956 – 00:09:16.236] Story. [00:09:16.236 – 00:09:20.076] So that was kind of the, the, the traveling packet that they went with. [00:09:20.076 – 00:09:28.876] But he later requested his signature be removed from this letter, AKA the first letter in the doctor's opinion, when it was incorporated into the original manuscript. [00:09:28.876 – 00:09:38.256] And of course, you know, there's a couple of, uh, uh, differences from this fundraising, uh, version to today's fourth ver- uh, fourth edition, uh, Big Book version. [00:09:38.256 – 00:09:46.916] Specifically about four years ago in late 19, uh, turned into in late 1934, uh, "A patient by the name of William G. [00:09:46.916 – 00:09:49.896] W." turned into just "A patient," comma. [00:09:49.896 – 00:09:59.916] Uh, "His new conceptions" turned into just "His conceptions," and of course, "I know, uh, 30 of these cases," personally know 30 of these cases

[00:09:59.916 – 00:10:04.376] to, "I know scores of cases," and scores are basically multiples of 20. [00:10:04.376 – 00:10:13.636] In fact, you know, in American history Abe L. talks about, you know, in his Gettysburg A., "Four score and seven years ago," so the o- the, you know, it's just multiples of 20. [00:10:13.636 – 00:10:14.636] It gives you a number. [00:10:14.636 – 00:10:20.876] Um, so this is, uh, what it looked like when his, uh, first letter went into the original, uh, manuscript. [00:10:20.876 – 00:10:26.696] This is, uh, the book that started it all, and of course, you know, you can see, uh, "Very truly yours," signed, "… [00:10:26.696 – 00:10:31.166] MD." Uh, this was in the, the, the multi-lif, and then when- [00:10:31.572 – 00:10:33.592] It finally went into, uh, printing.

[00:10:33.592 – 00:10:37.752] We have, you know, it right there again, signed dot, dot, dot, MD. [00:10:37.752 – 00:10:41.952] Uh, but that's a great way of opening up, uh, the doctor's opinion. [00:10:41.952 – 00:10:52.252] Now, specifically thereafter, it talks about that in this statement he confirms what we who have suffered alcoholic torture must believe, that the body of the alcoholic [00:10:52.252 – 00:10:55.252] is quite as abnormal as his mind. [00:10:55.252 – 00:11:01.162] And of course, the doctor's theory that we have an allergy to alcohol interests us. [00:11:01.162 – 00:11:05.772] So, uh, again, you know, the- the- the start of, uh, the- the doctor's opinion. [00:11:05.772 – 00:11:14.952] Also originally it was page one, uh, all the way through the first edition, which brought the total number of pages to, uh, 179 until the second opinion.

[00:11:14.952 – 00:11:22.012] It was also postmortem that he, uh, they- they signed his name, uh, in- in- in some of the drafts. [00:11:22.012 – 00:11:26.832] Now, that covers, uh, in a very brief way, uh, the- the first letter. [00:11:26.832 – 00:11:32.872] Next, we're gonna cover what leads to, uh, what we refer to as the second letter found, uh, in the doctor's opinion. [00:11:32.872 – 00:11:35.672] And of course, we're looking at the problem. [00:11:35.672 – 00:11:45.832] Now, it's simply described as, and we, you know, we hear this in the rooms, you know, "It's an allergy of the body, and it's an obsession of the mind." Now, these roots trace back to two previous works, [00:11:45.832 – 00:11:48.652] uh, used to describe both aspects. [00:11:48.652 – 00:11:58.792] Uh, the first one came from a, uh, periodical called Alcoholism as a Manifestation of an Al- Allergy, and that was in, uh, March 17th, 1937

[00:11:58.792 – 00:11:59.832] in the medical record. [00:11:59.832 – 00:12:09.992] And I love how he starts off with that "Alcoholism is considered by many physicians as a chronic condition that gradually unfolds itself to a dismal [00:12:09.992 – 00:12:11.792] end." Um, how cool is that? [00:12:11.792 – 00:12:14.892] So there's the aller- uh, manifestation of an allergy. [00:12:14.892 – 00:12:16.032] We'll cover that later on. [00:12:16.032 – 00:12:21.632] Uh, but also what's interesting is this is actually written by Bi- uh, Bill W. himself. [00:12:21.632 – 00:12:25.892] It's called That Strange Obsession, and it was around the first drafts of the book.

[00:12:25.892 – 00:12:31.612] But in this document, uh, it's a, a legal pad, so he, you know, re- really scribbled it out. [00:12:31.612 – 00:12:39.572] But in this document, it really kind of details, uh, you know, the- the- the obsessional nature, and it portrays, um, um, Dr. [00:12:39.572 – 00:12:41.072] S. and Lois. [00:12:41.072 – 00:12:45.472] So first we're gonna shed light on a little bo- uh, on- on both of these. [00:12:45.472 – 00:12:47.572] Uh, first, The Strange Obsession. [00:12:47.572 – 00:12:50.712] Again, a brief look at some of the language used. [00:12:50.712 – 00:12:56.952] Then towards the end, we're gonna cover Manifestation of an Allergy, uh, detailing work up to that point of discovery.

[00:12:56.952 – 00:13:00.032] So first off, That Strange Obsession. [00:13:00.032 – 00:13:05.672] Now, big note again, uh, Bill, uh, in- describes this interaction between, uh, Dr. [00:13:05.672 – 00:13:07.272] S. and Lois W.. [00:13:07.272 – 00:13:16.692] Unknown if it's, uh, a- an actual fact, but, you know, he– I think the purpose is, you know, just shining light on this- this obsessional nature. [00:13:16.692 – 00:13:21.932] Now, she desperately seeks, you know, this understanding why Bill is constantly returning back to drinking. [00:13:21.932 – 00:13:25.532] Again, represented from his second or his third visit to Charles B. [00:13:25.532 – 00:13:26.652] T. Hospital.

[00:13:26.652 – 00:13:29.012] Now, this document is eight pages long. [00:13:29.012 – 00:13:30.012] It's all handwritten. [00:13:30.012 – 00:13:32.452] Uh, there's about 875 words. [00:13:32.452 – 00:13:42.492] Um, now it would– we could spend the rest of the hour, you know, talking about this, um, but we're gonna zoom in basically on pages six and seven, specifically, uh, that [00:13:42.492 – 00:13:50.652] paragraph down there, uh, the last paragraph on page six that wraps into page seven, and I love it because it- it- it really sums it up. [00:13:50.652 – 00:13:57.592] Uh, in fact, it says, "Therefore, the biggest fact about alcoholism is its obsessional nature. [00:13:57.592 – 00:14:01.832] It is one of the most subtle yet most powerful compulsions known.

[00:14:01.832 – 00:14:06.232] Once its grip is firm, the chances of recovery is diminished. [00:14:06.232 – 00:14:11.612] How to help the alcoholic to expel his obsession is the problem." Wow. [00:14:11.612 – 00:14:21.712] "But we doctors have had little success, and I've, uh, seldom helped even one case in 100." So, you know, if you were a hopeless alcoholic, it's, you know, doesn't [00:14:21.712 – 00:14:22.472] look good. [00:14:22.472 – 00:14:27.092] Um, so that's kinda, you know, talks about that- that obsessional nature. [00:14:27.092 – 00:14:37.552] Um, and it's, you know, it's the f- all throughout time, they- they've known that there was something, you know, off, uh, or askew w- you know, with alcoholics and th- and their, uh, obsession. [00:14:37.552 – 00:14:42.532] So in order to talk about the next session, we're gonna look, uh, a lot at his life.

[00:14:42.532 – 00:14:45.312] Uh, we're gonna take a journey through, um, uh, Dr. [00:14:45.312 – 00:14:47.552] William D. S., his alcoholic work. [00:14:47.552 – 00:14:54.952] Again, that leads to his theory, uh, uh, all the way to the- the writing of, uh, Alcoholism: A Manifestation of an Allergy. [00:14:54.952 – 00:15:00.732] So to cover things, we're gonna take a tiny little jump back to the past, and this is where it gets really nerdy. [00:15:00.732 – 00:15:07.112] Um, but, uh, Dr., uh, William D. S., uh, was born in Long B., New Jersey. [00:15:07.112 – 00:15:11.612] Uh, he was actually born July 22nd of 1873. [00:15:11.612 – 00:15:14.772] Uh, his parents, uh, William W.

[00:15:14.772 – 00:15:21.012] S., his dad, was actually, uh, uh, in the- the Civil W., and that's an 1879 census. [00:15:21.012 – 00:15:23.672] And when we zoom in on that, you can see William W. [00:15:23.672 – 00:15:26.872] S., uh, at this time, age 36. [00:15:26.872 – 00:15:32.882] Right below that is Bella, short for Isabella, uh, his mother, age 24, wife, and there's William D. [00:15:32.882 – 00:15:35.872] S. listed as 6 years old. [00:15:35.872 – 00:15:38.952] Now, in the years following, two more children came. [00:15:38.952 – 00:15:41.512] Uh, they made, uh, a family, S..

[00:15:41.512 – 00:15:46.592] Uh, we talked about his father, William W., and his mother, Isabella R., and of course, there's William D. [00:15:46.592 – 00:15:46.782] Sil- [00:15:47.028 – 00:15:48.028] S., 1873. [00:15:48.028 – 00:15:55.488] But his younger sister, Mabel G. S., and, uh, last but not least, his, uh, much younger brother, Russell T. [00:15:55.488 – 00:15:56.067] S.. [00:15:56.067 – 00:15:58.008] So he was the oldest of three children. [00:15:58.008 – 00:15:59.128] Uh, I thought that was pretty cool.

[00:15:59.128 – 00:16:00.708] Uh, William D. [00:16:00.708 – 00:16:06.048] S., again, uh, age 12, and, you know, this is 1885, Long B., New Jersey. [00:16:06.048 – 00:16:16.188] Now, to give you an idea where he grew up, L- Long B. is one of the most northern coastal beaches of, uh, South, which is actually south of Sea B. or Monmouth B.. [00:16:16.188 – 00:16:23.668] Uh, you basically take State R. 36 east from the Garden S. Parkway and try to stop before you drive into the ocean. [00:16:23.668 – 00:16:25.918] Uh, and his house is literally kind of there. [00:16:25.918 – 00:16:33.698] In fact, um, to give you an idea, this is a, a 1889 map of Long B., uh, New Jersey, Monmouth C.. [00:16:33.698 – 00:16:43.728] Uh, this is a Wolverton's atlas, and when we open this up and we s- uh, turn to plate nine, and what's fascinating about this particular map is it also shows the residents of the

[00:16:43.728 – 00:16:44.208] time. [00:16:44.208 – 00:16:45.778] So we know one thing. [00:16:45.778 – 00:16:48.648] Um, we know he grew up on Chelsea A.. [00:16:48.648 – 00:16:49.548] That'll be the street. [00:16:49.548 – 00:16:51.307] So there's Chelsea A. right there. [00:16:51.307 – 00:16:53.828] Uh, this is the south side of Long B.. [00:16:53.828 – 00:16:58.488] Um, and of course, if we, uh, look right there, there's that little tiny circle.

[00:16:58.488 – 00:17:05.368] So we're gonna highlight that section, and we're gonna enlarge that, and you can see right there, W.W. [00:17:05.368 – 00:17:06.018] S.. [00:17:06.018 – 00:17:13.468] So he literally was a block and a half from the ocean, so he was a Jersey S. kind of guy, um, yeah, very, very early on. [00:17:13.468 – 00:17:19.168] So, uh, that kind of gives you an idea of, of, of where, where he grew up and where he was born. [00:17:19.168 – 00:17:21.208] So, uh, he e- ended up… [00:17:21.208 – 00:17:27.188] Uh, he attended, uh, Chateaur H. School in Long B., New Jersey, graduated in their three-year program. [00:17:27.188 – 00:17:29.348] So again, he's extremely bright.

[00:17:29.348 – 00:17:31.768] Um, uh, that's a photo of the school. [00:17:31.768 – 00:17:33.748] That, uh, the school burned down. [00:17:33.748 – 00:17:38.108] It's not there anymore, but that's where he went, uh, and of course, uh, 1892. [00:17:38.108 – 00:17:42.628] Now, from there is where his, kinda started his medical, uh, path. [00:17:42.628 – 00:17:47.308] Uh, he entered Princeton U. as a freshman class of 1893. [00:17:47.308 – 00:17:52.488] In fact, this is the freshman class continued, and you can see him all the way down there, William D. [00:17:52.488 – 00:17:53.118] S..

[00:17:53.118 – 00:17:54.098] Now, this is interesting. [00:17:54.098 – 00:17:59.308] It says Fishkill, New York, and of course, his freshman dorm was 29 Canal S.. [00:17:59.308 – 00:18:03.528] But, you know, uh, uh, his, uh, family had, uh, houses all over the place. [00:18:03.528 – 00:18:08.568] It looks as though he was, uh, from, uh, you know, lived also in Fishkill, New York. [00:18:08.568 – 00:18:15.718] But most interesting is his future wife, uh, is from, uh, Marie A., is from, uh, Fishkill, New York. [00:18:15.718 – 00:18:16.768] So I thought that was pretty cool. [00:18:16.768 – 00:18:23.768] But again, this shows, uh, the class of, uh, 1896 listed, you know, graduation, but the freshmen.

[00:18:23.768 – 00:18:28.428] So jumping to 1895, uh, again, junior year Princeton. [00:18:28.428 – 00:18:30.008] Uh, this is pretty fascinating. [00:18:30.008 – 00:18:30.438] William D. [00:18:30.438 – 00:18:34.888] S., again, Fishkill, New York, but he lives in 9ND. [00:18:34.888 – 00:18:41.418] Now, I don't know what that means, uh, but you know, it could be, um, you know, medical dorms or, or something like that. [00:18:41.418 – 00:18:42.088] I have no idea. [00:18:42.088 – 00:18:43.388] That's purely speculation.

[00:18:43.388 – 00:18:44.888] But he's, you know, still there. [00:18:44.888 – 00:18:51.668] Now, this is the commencement list, uh, for, uh, 1896, and, uh, he is up there at the top. [00:18:51.668 – 00:18:54.788] And when we zoom in again, you can see William D. S.. [00:18:54.788 – 00:18:57.488] Now, he did graduate in 1896. [00:18:57.488 – 00:19:01.328] This is a, uh, um, uh, a directory of graduates. [00:19:01.328 – 00:19:04.148] Uh, again, uh, right here, uh, William D. [00:19:04.148 – 00:19:09.848] S. from Fishkill, New York, on page 94, uh, listed as class of '96.

[00:19:09.848 – 00:19:20.228] So after graduation, uh, he applied and was accepted to medical school, specifically New York University's Bellevue M. College, and this took place in 1896 [00:19:20.228 – 00:19:24.728] to 1899, specifically specialist in neuropsychiatry. [00:19:24.728 – 00:19:27.908] So you can see his, uh, you know, his, his outline. [00:19:27.908 – 00:19:28.948] Um, William D. [00:19:28.948 – 00:19:36.948] S., Associate B.'s, '96 from Princeton, uh, and of course, physician, specifically nervous diseases, and that was his address. [00:19:36.948 – 00:19:40.147] And that's what it looked like from, uh, 1916. [00:19:40.147 – 00:19:46.268] Now, what's interesting is while at Bellevue M. College, S. attended classes taught by Dr.

[00:19:46.268 – 00:19:51.968] Alexander L., who was a guest professor visiting from Cornell U.. [00:19:51.968 – 00:19:54.438] Now, S. would become aware of, uh, Dr. [00:19:54.438 – 00:19:56.028] Alexander L.. [00:19:56.028 – 00:20:04.788] Now, what's fascinating about this is just keep him in mind specifically, uh, when we talk about, uh, uh, the belladonna treatment at T. Hospital. [00:20:04.788 – 00:20:06.628] So S. was aware of the guy. [00:20:06.628 – 00:20:08.827] Uh, I thought that was pretty cool. [00:20:08.827 – 00:20:11.248] And of course, this is, uh, his, uh, graduation.

[00:20:11.248 – 00:20:12.368] This is the commencement. [00:20:12.368 – 00:20:15.428] Um, you know, you see the, uh, uh, seal of New York City. [00:20:15.428 – 00:20:22.568] Uh, you can see announcements for 1899, 1900, and of course, there he is right there, uh, William D. [00:20:22.568 – 00:20:27.108] S., Associate B.'s, uh, New Jersey, now MD. [00:20:27.108 – 00:20:29.168] So I thought that was pretty, pretty fascinating. [00:20:29.168 – 00:20:39.888] And of course, uh, his commencement notification, and you blow up, uh, the, the wording and it says, "I am pleased to inform you that you have passed satisfactory [00:20:39.888 – 00:20:47.508] examinations in all subjects, and the faculty have recommended you for coun- uh, to the council for graduation.

[00:20:47.508 – 00:20:56.668] The degree of MD will be conferred upon you on May 16th of 1899." So I thought that was, you know, date and time was, uh, pretty, pretty interesting. [00:20:56.668 – 00:21:02.268] And of course, the fine print down below basically says, "If you're not there, you don't get it." So- [00:21:02.552 – 00:21:07.452] You know, show up , uh, you know, just d- in, in, in, in short. [00:21:07.452 – 00:21:17.662] So, um, after graduation, uh, S., uh, interned at Bellevue, uh, followed by this, uh, Bellevue inebriate clement. [00:21:17.662 – 00:21:25.222] Uh, then it is suggested that he opened a private practice in Long B., New, uh, Je- uh, Long B., New Jersey. [00:21:25.222 – 00:21:29.412] Now, as for Long B., this is just an interesting mention. [00:21:29.412 – 00:21:36.012] Uh, but this came from, uh, the December 7, 1901 Princeton A. Weekly, and it actually has him listed here.

[00:21:36.012 – 00:21:36.512] William D. [00:21:36.512 – 00:21:43.962] S., Bellevue M. College, class of '00, is practicing at Chelsea A., Long B., New Jersey. [00:21:43.962 – 00:21:47.442] So we know he does- uh, somebody from his family lives there. [00:21:47.442 – 00:21:50.632] Again, you know, the data is inconclusive. [00:21:50.632 – 00:21:53.892] Uh, but what really is interesting– So this is 1901. [00:21:53.892 – 00:22:04.192] But if we look at the 12 census of the United States, uh, specifically New York, King C., uh, specifically on the date of the 8th of June [00:22:04.192 – 00:22:05.512] 1900.

[00:22:05.512 – 00:22:12.052] Um, and, um, down there we can see that this is, uh, uh, Ninth S. that they're, uh, taking, uh, numbers on. [00:22:12.052 – 00:22:20.232] So if we highlight that area, blow that up, you can clearly see, um, you know, set lines, uh, 73 and 74. [00:22:20.232 – 00:22:26.052] It says, uh, number one, there's Ninth S., and the street number is number 440. [00:22:26.052 – 00:22:28.532] And you can see William D., uh, D. [00:22:28.532 – 00:22:30.212] S. is the head. [00:22:30.212 – 00:22:33.852] Uh, at this time, he– Uh, 1872 is when he was born. [00:22:33.852 – 00:22:39.852] Again, weird, weird, uh, talk about the, the date there, but he was 27 years old.

[00:22:39.852 – 00:22:46.072] And what's really fascinating is right underneath that it talks about Antoinette B. S., that's his wife. [00:22:46.072 – 00:22:50.492] And of course, she was born in 1875 and is 25 years old. [00:22:50.492 – 00:22:53.692] So 440 Ninth S. in 1900. [00:22:53.692 – 00:22:54.752] I thought that was pretty cool. [00:22:54.752 – 00:23:04.832] Now, uh, according to the Bennett family records, uh, their wedding was on July 22nd of, uh, 1898, so he was actually still in medical school when they got [00:23:04.832 – 00:23:05.232] married. [00:23:05.232 – 00:23:07.672] Uh, I thought that was pretty, pretty, you know, noteworthy.

[00:23:07.672 – 00:23:13.732] Um, but in, uh, 1912, again, this is a Long B. city directory, and, uh, William D. [00:23:13.732 – 00:23:16.451] S. is listed as living at that address. [00:23:16.451 – 00:23:24.532] So I'm, I'm just pretty sure they just kept printing that until, you know, that he's probably still listed as, as, uh, uh, living there. [00:23:24.532 – 00:23:27.032] Um, but, um, pr- truly fascinating. [00:23:27.032 – 00:23:33.672] It's also suggested that he resided, uh, at several places, uh, along this, uh, timeframe. [00:23:33.672 – 00:23:41.272] Now, after graduation, uh, he pursued his lifelong path in the field of alcohol and narcotic alcoholism. [00:23:41.272 – 00:23:42.252] So that was pretty cool.

[00:23:42.252 – 00:23:50.092] Um, an interesting account suggests that along with alcohol, minimal interaction at best with alcohol. [00:23:50.092 – 00:23:56.272] Narcotic alcoholism seemed to be his prevalent focus within his practice, at least at the start of his career. [00:23:56.272 – 00:23:59.432] You know, as if alcoholics were still untreatable. [00:23:59.432 – 00:24:04.952] You know, the hopeless cases, they're just, you know, they had– they– nothing good's gonna come from that. [00:24:04.952 – 00:24:10.452] Uh, it's also talks about, uh, then he wrote some articles, uh, on opiate alcoholism. [00:24:10.452 – 00:24:11.052] We got two. [00:24:11.052 – 00:24:12.792] One, uh, two in 1908.

[00:24:12.792 – 00:24:13.912] One in 1909. [00:24:13.912 – 00:24:18.572] Uh, uh, there's, there's a couple of cites o- of, of these works all over the place. [00:24:18.572 – 00:24:25.052] Um, but the– I like this one in particular because it is the United N. bulletin on narcotics. [00:24:25.052 – 00:24:27.992] Um, and of course, S.'s listed on page 38. [00:24:27.992 – 00:24:38.052] But this came out in 1952, and you can see one in 1908 was the treatment of opium in India and China, and the next one was, uh, notes on a jungle plant, [00:24:38.052 – 00:24:41.372] and then a further, uh, report of this jungle plant. [00:24:41.372 – 00:24:43.732] And so that was, that was just pretty interesting.

[00:24:43.732 – 00:24:53.892] Uh, uh, 1915, 1916, uh, it's described that S., uh, was, uh, developing his own kind of private sanitarium for addicts [00:24:53.892 – 00:24:56.922] and alcoholics, and this was, uh, way before T. Hospital. [00:24:56.922 – 00:25:02.882] Now, it's also described that this financial strain on him and his wife, Marie A., seemed impossible. [00:25:02.882 – 00:25:10.332] It's suggested that this venture was not able to meet its financial monthly qu- uh, quota with income from their clients. [00:25:10.332 – 00:25:15.572] In fact, he had to, um, uh, take up a couple of, uh, extra jobs. [00:25:15.572 – 00:25:20.891] Uh, one, uh, took place at the Broad S. Hospital, so just to make ends meet. [00:25:20.891 – 00:25:24.572] And of course, hinting that this was a great strain on them.

[00:25:24.572 – 00:25:27.372] And, you know, those pictures aren't really fair. [00:25:27.372 – 00:25:31.332] They were pretty– They were, they were younger than that, but it just kind of gives you an idea. [00:25:31.332 – 00:25:41.352] Now, the clip– uh, crippling blow to his private practice kind of treatment clinic was a lawsuit from a 1915 alcoholism patient, uh, and that [00:25:41.352 – 00:25:43.272] man's private doctor aimed at Dr. [00:25:43.272 – 00:25:53.232] S.'s use of a opioid treatment, which was actually widely used, uh, uh, in that treatment, uh, from 1900 to 1920 time period. [00:25:53.232 – 00:26:00.972] Uh, this suggests his early focus was really on, uh, opioid alcoholism and not alcohol. [00:26:00.972 – 00:26:02.912] So I thought that was, uh, pretty fascinating.

[00:26:02.912 – 00:26:13.032] So stating that there was morphine in the remedy that was being used, uh, at the time of, uh, for this opium alcoholism, this and the recently passed Harrison [00:26:13.032 – 00:26:17.992] Act regarding checks and balances with doctors prescribing medicine, especially n- [00:26:18.168 – 00:26:24.708] narcotics produced a liability tone, as well as making physicians nervous in the course of using this treatment. [00:26:24.708 – 00:26:31.488] Now, the note is, is there's no mention formally of any complaint with the AMA or sanctions, uh, by the medical board. [00:26:31.488 – 00:26:42.088] Uh, but it is suggested that he did settle this suit, um, out of, uh, at some point, especially with letters to his family, I, uh, presumably his mother, uh, [00:26:42.088 – 00:26:42.538] and father. [00:26:42.538 – 00:26:52.668] So, uh, again, it was, uh, this, uh, uh, lawsuit encounter starting in 1915 into 1916, along with the possibility of criminal

[00:26:52.668 – 00:26:54.608] consequences from the Harrison A.. [00:26:54.608 – 00:26:59.688] And the Harrison A., ironically, was, uh, sponsored and kind of came from, uh, Charles B. [00:26:59.688 – 00:27:00.248] T.. [00:27:00.248 – 00:27:02.078] Uh, I thought that was pretty cool. [00:27:02.078 – 00:27:07.258] So H. Act, that S. decided to stop working with addicts altogether. [00:27:07.258 – 00:27:13.788] There was a real risk there, and of course, it was handled by the Treasury D. in, in later versions of that law. [00:27:13.788 – 00:27:19.028] So he devotes all his, uh, focus on alcoholics, uh, only from now on.

[00:27:19.028 – 00:27:23.508] Uh, so this kind of takes us up into this 1915, 1917. [00:27:23.508 – 00:27:30.008] Uh, his entire career is centered around psychiatry, and up comes, uh, World W. I. [00:27:30.008 – 00:27:38.508] So he was a member of the psychiatric staff at a US Army hospital in Plattsburgh, uh, New York from 1917 to 1919. [00:27:38.508 – 00:27:44.588] Its identification is actually US General H. Number 30, and that's where he was stationed. [00:27:44.588 – 00:27:47.028] So it all started here, World W. I. [00:27:47.028 – 00:27:51.948] Uh, this is, uh, commissions accepted, uh, Medical S. Reserve C.- Corps. [00:27:51.948 – 00:27:57.728] Uh, this came from, uh, the Journal of American M. Association commissions accepted.

[00:27:57.728 – 00:28:03.248] And when we go down, you can see that there's different T. and states, and when we look at New York, there he is. [00:28:03.248 – 00:28:04.148] William D. [00:28:04.148 – 00:28:07.108] S. signed up, and so it's kind of official now. [00:28:07.108 – 00:28:08.168] So I… [00:28:08.168 – 00:28:11.238] So he is now in the, uh, Reserve, uh, Medical C.. [00:28:11.238 – 00:28:14.068] So I introduce Lieutenant W.D. [00:28:14.068 – 00:28:20.198] S., Medical C., US, uh, Gen- USA General H. Number 30, Plattsburgh B., New York.

[00:28:20.198 – 00:28:25.658] Now, what's fascinating is in Plattsburgh B., they actually had their own in-house periodical. [00:28:25.658 – 00:28:34.348] And if you look on p- uh, volume one, number three, Wednesday, January 18th, uh, and you flip to page 12, you can basically see the roster. [00:28:34.348 – 00:28:44.488] And right there it says, "List of officers, General H. 30, Plattsburgh B., uh, New York." And, uh, down there under lieutenants, it goes, uh, [00:28:44.488 – 00:28:47.408] cur- Lieutenant C., Majors, Captains and Lieutenants. [00:28:47.408 – 00:28:49.028] There he is, fifth one down, William D. [00:28:49.028 – 00:28:50.418] S., Medical C.. [00:28:50.418 – 00:28:58.848] Uh, what's really fascinating is that he's not just mentioned there, and this is, uh, another aspect of his life, which, uh, I think is worth pursuing.

[00:28:58.848 – 00:29:01.108] Uh, but he's mentioned right here, too. [00:29:01.108 – 00:29:02.648] It says, uh, "Lieutenant W.D. [00:29:02.648 – 00:29:06.008] S. is not made mention of nowadays. [00:29:06.008 – 00:29:12.248] He also, uh, he has also been very quiet since his wife has arrived." So that's pretty interesting. [00:29:12.248 – 00:29:16.608] And of course, his wife, Marie A. Bennett S. is her, uh, full name. [00:29:16.608 – 00:29:26.628] But what's really fascinating is he was also mentioned two weeks later in the same magazine, the, the, The Reflex, where he states, "Lieutenant W…." Uh, I mean, [00:29:26.628 – 00:29:30.268] "Lieutenant S.," excuse me, "is rather quiet these days.

[00:29:30.268 – 00:29:36.008] Uh, yes, I know his wife is here." So kind of makes it sound like he, he may have been a wild man. [00:29:36.008 – 00:29:41.627] I'm not positive on that, but, uh, uh, it's just in- interesting descriptions, uh, of that. [00:29:41.627 – 00:29:45.628] He was honorably discharged July 10th of, uh, 1919. [00:29:45.628 – 00:29:50.067] Now, in 1919, again, this is where it all comes into play. [00:29:50.067 – 00:30:00.068] Uh, his time at Plattsburgh suggests the first hint of an observation of a certain particular missing component, uh, most important to [00:30:00.068 – 00:30:00.228] us. [00:30:00.228 – 00:30:04.508] Now, all of this information really comes from, you know, the go-to book on S..

[00:30:04.508 – 00:30:05.848] This is Dale M.'s book. [00:30:05.848 – 00:30:15.928] Uh, in fact, pulling it directly, it, you know, it says, "It was Plattsburgh where S. discovered a direct link between the manifestation of an allergy [00:30:15.928 – 00:30:18.488] and a predisposition to alcoholism. [00:30:18.488 – 00:30:24.668] Many returning soldiers quickly increased their drinking to alcoholic levels. [00:30:24.668 – 00:30:31.928] Many others who returned from the war used alcohol to drown out the pain and the memories, but never became alcoholics. [00:30:31.928 – 00:30:36.748] That is, they never became dependent on or consumed by the desire to drink. [00:30:36.748 – 00:30:41.147] What interested S. was that some did and some didn't.

[00:30:41.147 – 00:30:51.148] He believed that some people were simply allergic to alcohol." So from then all the way up to this po- time, you know, it's like the seeds are being planted and his observations are, [00:30:51.148 – 00:30:52.168] are slowly starting. [00:30:52.168 – 00:30:55.108] So 1919, honorably discharged. [00:30:55.108 – 00:31:01.108] Uh, it's described in 1920, he worked as a clinical assistant at the Neurological I. of New York. [00:31:01.108 – 00:31:02.608] Uh, did that for a little while. [00:31:02.608 – 00:31:10.548] It also suggested by 1923 he was in the outpatient department of Presbyterian H., also in New York. [00:31:10.548 – 00:31:19.728] Um, and what's interesting is Presbyterian H. actually joined forces with Columbia U., making it, uh, Columbia-Presbyterian M. Center.

[00:31:19.728 – 00:31:26.868] And of course, it's described that he was a clinical assistant, uh, here at this, uh, Neurological I. College of Physicians. [00:31:26.868 – 00:31:33.598] So then the Great D. hit, 1929, and it just kind of seems like everybody was affected by it, um- [00:31:33.804 – 00:31:44.164] Several suggestions from this time range, uh, uh, again, have or place him both being in private practice all the way to hospital employee. [00:31:44.164 – 00:31:50.084] So from 1929 to 1931, he was either in pr- private practice or worked for a hospital. [00:31:50.084 – 00:31:53.664] Now, we're pretty certain he did one of those two things. [00:31:53.664 – 00:31:57.584] Uh, and that's, that's, that's kind of where I'm gonna, uh, you know, leave it at. [00:31:57.584 – 00:31:59.644] But he did one or the other, right?

[00:31:59.644 – 00:32:09.144] So, uh, and, uh, it's also around this timeframe, uh, when a very, uh, well, a friend of his offered him a particular job when jobs were slim pickings. [00:32:09.144 – 00:32:14.304] Of course, we're talking about Charles B. T., uh, T. Hospital. [00:32:14.304 – 00:32:17.244] Now, um, I, I do this every time. [00:32:17.244 – 00:32:27.304] If, if, if anybody wants to find, um, uh, you know, any, any information about how truly amazing Charles T. is, I highly recommend King C. in New York, uh, written [00:32:27.304 – 00:32:29.404] by, uh, a guy named Gary N. [00:32:29.404 – 00:32:39.424] Uh, it is, uh, a fascinating, uh, read, and it really, you know, sheds some light on exactly how influential, uh, th- this guy was in, in [00:32:39.424 – 00:32:40.274] this timeframe.

[00:32:40.274 – 00:32:43.044] Uh, again, you know, also Charles B. [00:32:43.044 – 00:32:44.884] T. Hospital, the whole nine yards. [00:32:44.884 – 00:32:54.644] Now, in this book, and this is what I didn't realize until, you know, I, in talking with the, w- with the man and, and, and, uh, doing the research, questions like this. [00:32:54.644 – 00:33:02.334] Uh, how did a man from LaGrange, Georgia, with a sixth-grade education become one of the leading experts on drug and alcohol alcoholism? [00:33:02.334 – 00:33:04.104] I mean, that's a good question. [00:33:04.104 – 00:33:05.184] Sixth-grade education. [00:33:05.184 – 00:33:08.884] Now, LaGrange, Georgia, back in the 1900s was, uh, like a farmland.

[00:33:08.884 – 00:33:09.264] There was… [00:33:09.264 – 00:33:11.644] It was like a forest and a field. [00:33:11.644 – 00:33:15.604] Um, so again, that's a great question, how that happened. [00:33:15.604 – 00:33:21.744] Better yet, how is it that this guy started the national policy for the war on drugs? [00:33:21.744 – 00:33:24.724] Uh, again, these are all great questions. [00:33:24.724 – 00:33:27.624] So, uh, now here's the thing about Charles B. [00:33:27.624 – 00:33:28.504] T. Hospital.

[00:33:28.504 – 00:33:32.484] Now, this hospital ends up being the Petri dish for the good Dr. [00:33:32.484 – 00:33:35.914] S. to make this monumental observation. [00:33:35.914 – 00:33:42.604] So the question would be, if it weren't for this hospital, ask yourself, would we all be here tonight? [00:33:42.604 – 00:33:46.504] So, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's truly, truly interesting. [00:33:46.504 – 00:33:51.144] Uh, briefly covered, uh, uh, uh, the, the start up here. [00:33:51.144 – 00:33:54.264] Um, again, I'm gonna blow through this. [00:33:54.264 – 00:33:59.184] Uh, these are, um, uh, li- listed as, uh, articles of incorporation.

[00:33:59.184 – 00:34:02.824] This was a 1962 lawsuit filed by his son, uh, Edward B. [00:34:02.824 – 00:34:03.464] T.. [00:34:03.464 – 00:34:05.624] But you can start to see 1909. [00:34:05.624 – 00:34:11.324] This is Exhibit A in an annexed petition to the lawsuit certificate of incorporation. [00:34:11.324 – 00:34:13.304] Uh, they are numbered one through 10. [00:34:13.304 – 00:34:15.784] Uh, we could spend another hour talking about these. [00:34:15.784 – 00:34:19.924] Uh, but if we flip the page, you can see eight, nine, and, and then, um, 10.

[00:34:19.924 – 00:34:24.084] But we're really gonna look at this because it talks about Mary M. [00:34:24.084 – 00:34:25.444] T., Charles B. [00:34:25.444 – 00:34:31.484] T.' wife, address 119 West 81st Street, had eight shares, the controlling arm. [00:34:31.484 – 00:34:32.464] Uh, Charles B. [00:34:32.464 – 00:34:34.804] T., uh, same address, had one share. [00:34:34.804 – 00:34:36.124] And of course, a woman named Anna K. [00:34:36.124 – 00:34:42.564] Poss, uh, unknown who, who that is, uh, at, uh, 346 Broadway, also had one share.

[00:34:42.564 – 00:34:44.244] And it was signed and dated this… [00:34:44.244 – 00:34:45.224] What? [00:34:45.224 – 00:34:55.464] Signed and dated, uh, this, uh, day, uh, sixth day of December 1909, uh, signed by all three, stamped with the City of New York, uh, um, uh, Commissioner [00:34:55.464 – 00:34:57.623] of Deeds, uh, Lorenzo DeVisio. [00:34:57.623 – 00:34:59.204] So, uh, again, sixth day. [00:34:59.204 – 00:35:00.044] I thought that was cool. [00:35:00.044 – 00:35:04.184] But it gives you the address, 119 West, uh, uh, 81st Street.

[00:35:04.184 – 00:35:10.493] Now, in 1914, uh, it moved to 293 Central P. West and 89th Street. [00:35:10.493 – 00:35:17.824] Now, this is location, kind of sparks appeal for, uh, designated itself, uh, to be rich and wealthy of clientele. [00:35:17.824 – 00:35:23.124] I mean, nowadays that's referred to as Millionaire's Row, and it was kind of like that back then. [00:35:23.124 – 00:35:28.504] In fact, this is, uh, a picture of, uh, T. Hospital that was taken by a home group member of ours. [00:35:28.504 – 00:35:33.944] Uh, he took a, uh, the, the trip and did the sights and, uh, so it gives you an idea. [00:35:33.944 – 00:35:35.023] Tiny little building. [00:35:35.023 – 00:35:40.024] Um, but you know, these are medical, uh, uh, advertisements that, that show it.

[00:35:40.024 – 00:35:50.144] Uh, this particular advertisement has the old address, uh, 1172119 West 81st Street, and of course other, um, uh, advertisements [00:35:50.144 – 00:35:53.284] have the 293 Central P. West address. [00:35:53.284 – 00:36:02.584] But you know, it says, you know, clearly, uh, "Treatment of drug, uh, alcoholism and alcoholism." So I thought that was, uh, uh, pretty fascinating. [00:36:02.584 – 00:36:07.703] And that brings us to this, uh, um, you know, particular, uh, you know, photograph. [00:36:07.703 – 00:36:14.144] I mean, that's, that, that shows kind of what the, the building looked like, uh, at that timeframe and of course what the view was. [00:36:14.144 – 00:36:16.284] Uh, uh, pretty, pretty spectacular stuff. [00:36:16.284 – 00:36:16.784] But Charles B.

[00:36:16.784 – 00:36:17.664] T. Hospital. [00:36:17.664 – 00:36:27.744] Now, remember S.'s friend T., uh, got him a job, uh, there at the Great D., so by 1932, uh, T. gave S., uh, his opportunity, [00:36:27.744 – 00:36:31.564] and he placed him as director of the alcoholic wing. [00:36:31.564 – 00:36:33.084] So now, uh, Dr. [00:36:33.084 – 00:36:41.624] S. is in a position to see thousands of alcoholic patients regularly, and as a scientist, he develops his own theories based on his experience. [00:36:41.624 – 00:36:45.904] Uh, so what was it like on the inside of T. Hospital? [00:36:45.904 – 00:36:49.204] Well, if you saw the, the two roo- the, the roof had-

[00:36:49.328 – 00:36:53.768] Those, um, little like, uh, um, uh, like greenhouse. [00:36:53.768 – 00:36:57.448] Uh, well, this is on one side is the gym, Charles B. [00:36:57.448 – 00:36:58.308] T. Hospital. [00:36:58.308 – 00:37:00.268] Uh, his, um, uh, Charles B. [00:37:00.268 – 00:37:03.948] T. was actually adamant about exercise, physical fitness. [00:37:03.948 – 00:37:06.208] Uh, in fact, the guy did gymnastics. [00:37:06.208 – 00:37:08.568] So this is, uh, the rooftop gym.

[00:37:08.568 – 00:37:16.428] Again, uh, spared no expense, all the, uh, amenities and, uh, this is, uh, on, uh, what, what it looked like on, on one side. [00:37:16.428 – 00:37:17.668] On the other side was this. [00:37:17.668 – 00:37:19.528] This is the, uh, the lounge. [00:37:19.528 – 00:37:24.248] Uh, the patients would, you know, go and, you know, do therapy all day long or whatever. [00:37:24.248 – 00:37:28.188] Um, you know, they, they, they did hydrotherapy or belladonna. [00:37:28.188 – 00:37:38.208] Uh, then they would come up, you know, up here and, uh, possibly, you know, just have some fruit, you know, fruit juice and unwind, walk over to the window, and when you walk over to the [00:37:38.208 – 00:37:44.108] window, uh, the view is the large lake that is right in the center of Central P..

[00:37:44.108 – 00:37:46.587] So again, uh, what a, what a, what a view. [00:37:46.587 – 00:37:49.898] Now, this is, uh, something that was, uh, described. [00:37:49.898 – 00:37:52.348] Again, all of this came from the special work of Charles B. [00:37:52.348 – 00:37:56.628] T. Hospital and its ethical relations with the medical profession. [00:37:56.628 – 00:38:00.088] Uh, this came from, uh, the National, uh, Library in DC. [00:38:00.088 – 00:38:04.008] Uh, but this is called a, uh, heat therapy room. [00:38:04.008 – 00:38:08.878] Uh, I'm not sure exactly what that is, but it's definitely, uh, plugged into the wall.

[00:38:08.878 – 00:38:16.748] There's a bunch of knobs on it, and I assume the patient kind of climbs into this Easy B. oven and gets, uh, you know, some, some heat therapy. [00:38:16.748 – 00:38:20.668] I'm not sure what that does for alcoholism or alcoholism, but it looks cool. [00:38:20.668 – 00:38:23.948] Um, some of the, uh, again, Charles B. [00:38:23.948 – 00:38:29.568] T. Hospital practices, uh, that are, uh, described in our book, um, including belladonna. [00:38:29.568 – 00:38:39.968] Now, the, the average just, uh, definition is commonly known as belladonna or deadly nightshade, uh, is a poisonous perennial hi- uh, hi- hibiscus, uh, in the nightshade [00:38:39.968 – 00:38:46.428] family, Solanaceae, uh, which also includes tomatoes, potatoes, and eggplant, and that's came from the World W. Web. [00:38:46.428 – 00:38:53.928] But belladonna suggests that there were several, uh, types really unknown in origin, but they all parallel each other in some form.

[00:38:53.928 – 00:39:02.848] Now, the thought was to keep the patient in a delirious state while they pass through the alcoholism step-down process or alcohol withdrawal symptoms. [00:39:02.848 – 00:39:10.128] Uh, so it's described as having multiple names, but basically it goes by belladonna, uh, and there are several different forms. [00:39:10.128 – 00:39:20.328] This one was, uh, uh, one, uh, that was not at T. Hospital, but it was, uh, the, the puke and purge treatment consisted of, uh, uh, a hypnotic sleep state with chloral [00:39:20.328 – 00:39:30.428] hydrate, which is poison antidote morphine, we all know what that does, and pyraldehyde, which actually says caution, vapor harmful, but if you ingest it, you got nothing to [00:39:30.428 – 00:39:30.948] worry about. [00:39:30.948 – 00:39:32.267] Just don't inhale it. [00:39:32.267 – 00:39:40.568] Uh, it also talks about, uh, every 12 hours, the patient was given something called cathartic compound pills and blue mass, which actually contain mercury.

[00:39:40.568 – 00:39:44.328] So blue mass and vapor harmful, uh, double trouble. [00:39:44.328 – 00:39:51.668] Uh, and of course, round that out with castor oil, belladonna, and strychnine sulfate, and that's the kind of stuff that makes you grind your teeth. [00:39:51.668 – 00:39:56.428] Uh, now for this particular one, belladonna treatment, which was co-created by Dr. [00:39:56.428 – 00:39:58.828] Alexander L., so that's pretty fascinating. [00:39:58.828 – 00:40:05.268] Lambert and T. knew each other, and S. actually took Lambert's class back in med school. [00:40:05.268 – 00:40:08.668] So this was known as the T.-Lambert, uh, treatment. [00:40:08.668 – 00:40:15.308] It was developed from 1906 to about 1910, and it's, uh, literally care and control of the alcoholic.

[00:40:15.308 – 00:40:23.868] And of course, that consisted of xanthoxylum fluid extract, which is dried bark or berries of the prickly ash tree. [00:40:23.868 – 00:40:29.528] Uh, we got the three, cathartic compound, blue mass, mercury, and, uh, castor oil. [00:40:29.528 – 00:40:38.728] And then we have nightshade belladonna, deadly nightshade belladonna, and then down there in the bottom is Hyoscyamus, which is hen's bane or hog's bean. [00:40:38.728 – 00:40:48.868] And this kind of looks like, you know, ingredients for some kind of witch's brew, you know, dried prickly bark berries, um, you know, blue mass, mercury, deadly nightshade, and some hog's [00:40:48.868 – 00:40:50.207] beans with hen's bane. [00:40:50.207 – 00:40:54.568] Uh, so, you know, again, this is what they, what they used at this point. [00:40:54.568 – 00:40:58.988] And then it jumps over to, uh, uh, hydrotherapy, uh, there at T. Hospital.

[00:40:58.988 – 00:41:01.388] And of course, S. was all o- you know, over this. [00:41:01.388 – 00:41:04.628] Um, and this is an interesting, uh, caption. [00:41:04.628 – 00:41:06.077] This describes the hydrotherapy. [00:41:06.077 – 00:41:16.088] In fact, it reads, "100% efficiency in the administration of hydrotherapeutic treatment is exemplified with the Mott equipment on the fifth floor of Charles [00:41:16.088 – 00:41:16.108] B. [00:41:16.108 – 00:41:17.848] T. Hospital." So a couple of things. [00:41:17.848 – 00:41:20.168] Number one, they used Mott equipment.

[00:41:20.168 – 00:41:23.308] Number two, hydrotherapy was on the fifth floor of Charles B. [00:41:23.308 – 00:41:24.138] T. Hospital. [00:41:24.138 – 00:41:31.908] So blow those pictures up, and you can see, you know, spray nozzles pointing at a shower with a tub and maybe, uh, a table of some kind. [00:41:31.908 – 00:41:36.948] And the bottom one is two bathtubs, some kind of, uh, box, and maybe a third bathtub. [00:41:36.948 – 00:41:40.888] Uh, but there are more pictures, uh, of, uh, the hydrotherapy room. [00:41:40.888 – 00:41:46.088] This one is looking, um, kind of from the other direction at the spray nozzles. [00:41:46.088 – 00:41:51.468] Uh, you can see that that is a very large examination table, uh, and of course, the, the spray nozzles.

[00:41:51.468 – 00:41:56.408] It also tells you exactly how small, you know, kind of these typical New York rooms are. [00:41:56.408 – 00:41:59.568] Um, you know, very, very, very tiny, uh, very tiny building. [00:41:59.568 – 00:42:00.907] So this was the hydrotherapy. [00:42:00.907 – 00:42:03.148] And then it jumps over to this one. [00:42:03.148 – 00:42:04.148] There's the bathtubs. [00:42:05.084 – 00:42:14.544] Um, and it loo- you know, looks also like a nickel-plated kinda hamper for, for soiled towels of some kind, and there's a, uh, that other is a sink. [00:42:14.544 – 00:42:22.544] But what's really fascinating is that black piece of equipment over there with the gauges and the knobs, and the wires that go into the tub.

[00:42:22.544 – 00:42:25.004] So, uh, not sure what that does. [00:42:25.004 – 00:42:31.944] Um, but you know, uh, the, the joke is you kinda get the feel of a, uh, you know, taking a bath with a hair dryer or a toaster oven. [00:42:31.944 – 00:42:36.364] Uh, not sure, uh, if anybody knows what that is, that would be fascinating to find out. [00:42:36.364 – 00:42:39.124] But, uh, so hydrotherapy. [00:42:39.124 – 00:42:41.284] And of course, you know, the, the bathtubs. [00:42:41.284 – 00:42:51.344] How they, uh, worked is they would strap you down, um, you know, um, uh, cut off, you know, basically, not cut off, but m- uh, you know, put a barrier on your neck, [00:42:51.344 – 00:42:55.544] and then they'd strap the, the, the, uh, canvas over the bathtub.

[00:42:55.544 – 00:42:57.164] Now two trains of thought here. [00:42:57.164 – 00:43:05.124] You're either so headin's baned, hog's beaned out of your mind that, you know, it's to keep you from nodding off and going underwater. [00:43:05.124 – 00:43:15.224] Or the other one is, uh, that the water pressure is so high that if they don't put the, uh, the boat tarp kinda, you know, strapped down, uh, the, it w- water [00:43:15.224 – 00:43:19.164] would just go all over the place and make a, uh, uh, a giant mess. [00:43:19.164 – 00:43:23.024] Uh, so, and you know, there are pressure gauges. [00:43:23.024 – 00:43:25.284] Uh, so it's more so the second of the two. [00:43:25.284 – 00:43:27.394] So that kind of gives you an idea of the hydrotherapy.

[00:43:27.394 – 00:43:29.344] And there's the showers in action. [00:43:29.344 – 00:43:33.564] Uh, some guy just pointing a nozzle, uh, at another guy taking a shower. [00:43:33.564 – 00:43:38.024] So all this is what, you know, S. was, uh, uh, using at this point. [00:43:38.024 – 00:43:43.284] Now he's been familiar, um, uh, again, with hydro, uh, therapy rooms for a while. [00:43:43.284 – 00:43:44.664] It was a common practice. [00:43:44.664 – 00:43:50.584] In fact, this is the, uh, US General H. Number 30 Plattsburgh B. hydrotherapy room. [00:43:50.584 – 00:43:53.624] Uh, and of course, you know, you can kinda see the same setup.

[00:43:53.624 – 00:43:59.604] There's a, uh, shower stall, and the, uh, uh, the, the nozzles, and of course the bathtub with the pressure gauge. [00:43:59.604 – 00:44:04.264] So, uh, you know, common, kinda co- common pro- um, uh, practice. [00:44:04.264 – 00:44:06.044] Uh, thank God they don't do it anymore. [00:44:06.044 – 00:44:11.064] Uh, again, but here's, here's the, the, the, the, the prime thing, you know. [00:44:11.064 – 00:44:18.004] He develops this theory, and he based his theory on an observation while he had treating alcoholics. [00:44:18.004 – 00:44:24.804] And he notes that some patients that are released in good health, and they always return in worse shape than before. [00:44:24.804 – 00:44:34.264] In fact, something happens that when they start to drink any alcohol whatsoever, that makes it virtually impossible for them to stop drinking once they start.

[00:44:34.264 – 00:44:42.684] Now, an observation first thought of at General H. Number 30, we talked about that all the way up to this point, so it's getting some, some, uh, traction. [00:44:42.684 – 00:44:47.154] And again, you know, just looking at the f- uh, the, the problem as we see it. [00:44:47.154 – 00:44:55.324] Um, obsession in the mind, the greater aspect of the disease, uh, coupled with the thing that sets us aside from the non-alcoholic. [00:44:55.324 – 00:45:05.344] The only component, and that is the allergy of the body, which is once I start drinking, the allergic reaction triggers an abnormal, unusual, and unstoppable craving for more [00:45:05.344 – 00:45:05.844] alcohol. [00:45:05.844 – 00:45:10.484] Again, once I take that first drink, uh, the phenomenon of craving. [00:45:10.484 – 00:45:14.344] So essentially, step one, you know, the step one with the, uh, S..

[00:45:14.344 – 00:45:17.344] So I thought that was, um, uh, pretty, pretty interesting. [00:45:17.344 – 00:45:22.124] Um, and with that, you know, now enters Bill W. kinda into this bigger picture. [00:45:22.124 – 00:45:26.124] Um, uh, remember Bill's attempts at getting sober. [00:45:26.124 – 00:45:30.484] His first attempt, uh, to stop drinking was, uh, willpower. [00:45:30.484 – 00:45:33.204] Uh, uh, and that's described in the Big Book. [00:45:33.204 – 00:45:40.284] Uh, his second attempt to stop drinking and his first hospital stay, it's described that it was self-knowledge. [00:45:40.284 – 00:45:45.624] Uh, right after that, that led to a relapse, and then a second hospital stay.

[00:45:45.624 – 00:45:51.844] That's when Lois was given brochures for insane asylums, which Bill found later back at the house. [00:45:51.844 – 00:45:58.464] Uh, and also, you know, there is no hope that was described in the, the document, uh, That Strange Obsession. [00:45:58.464 – 00:46:08.504] And it's also Bill is quoted as saying, you know, "After this relapse terror, self-hatred, suicidal thoughts became constant companions." Uh, from there, start of [00:46:08.504 – 00:46:18.584] his third attempt to stop drinking where he stepped, uh, fear sobered him a bit, and that led to the drinking binge on Armistice D., November 11, 1934. [00:46:18.584 – 00:46:28.784] And of course, he's got a great description of that one too, where he says, "The next morning about 5:00 AM, Lois found Bill unconscious in the doorway at 182 Clinton S.. [00:46:28.784 – 00:46:33.124] Bill fallen against the door and was bleeding heavily from a bad scalp wound. [00:46:33.124 – 00:46:43.024] My hands still clutched the strap of a golf bag, and as I regained consciousness, nothing much was said." You know, it's like, it's just a typical Tuesday, you know?

[00:46:43.024 – 00:46:48.704] Uh, but again, the fourth, uh, the, the, the pre-start of Bill's fourth attempt. [00:46:48.704 – 00:46:50.244] Now I know what you're gonna say. [00:46:50.244 – 00:46:54.124] Uh, Bill is back, uh, at T. Hospital, third attempt, third final stay. [00:46:54.124 – 00:46:58.524] Uh, however, third and final stay at T. Hospital, giant question mark. [00:46:58.524 – 00:47:01.624] And, you know, this goes for, you know, kinda Super A nerds. [00:47:01.624 – 00:47:04.924] Uh, how many times did Bill go to, uh, T. Hospital? [00:47:04.924 – 00:47:06.704] There are three mentioned in the Big Book.

[00:47:06.704 – 00:47:16.384] Uh, but again, uh, chronologic, uh, chronology from, uh, history sh- uh, scholars AA approved and outside conference approved literature suggests four times. [00:47:16.384 – 00:47:20.394] Uh, the first time through his brother and mother admitted- [00:47:20.560 – 00:47:24.310] Into a nationally known hospital where he met a kind doctor, S.. [00:47:24.310 – 00:47:29.140] Fall 1933, so there's the first contact, and that's from, uh, Big Book page seven. [00:47:29.140 – 00:47:33.400] The second, Bill's relapse where Lois brought him back to T. Hospital. [00:47:33.400 – 00:47:41.500] Also, Lois's famous words calling Bill a drunken sot in anger for not stopping or understanding why he continued to drink. [00:47:41.500 – 00:47:42.740] There's that obsession.

[00:47:42.740 – 00:47:49.399] Uh, that's referenced Not G. and, uh, Bill W. by Robert, uh, T- uh, Thompson, uh, book. [00:47:49.399 – 00:47:54.590] The third, uh, Bill W.'s, uh, third admission to T. Hospital, again paid by Dr. [00:47:54.590 – 00:47:58.370] Leonard S., uh, occurred on September 17, 1934. [00:47:58.370 – 00:47:58.550] Dr. [00:47:58.550 – 00:48:08.580] S. pronounced Bill a hopeless drunk and informed Lois that it would likely have to be committed and, uh, was given pamphlets on how to commit someone for [00:48:08.580 – 00:48:10.190] alcoholic insanity. [00:48:10.190 – 00:48:15.160] Bill left the hospital with great fear and demoralization, and this is where it's described.

[00:48:15.160 – 00:48:19.260] Terror, self-hatred, and suicidal thoughts became constant companions. [00:48:19.260 – 00:48:21.300] September 17th, 1934. [00:48:21.300 – 00:48:31.320] And the fourth one, uh, after his relapse on Armistice D., November 11th, and a visit from an old school friend, Ebby, you know, he was separated from alcohol for the last time, and [00:48:31.320 – 00:48:33.320] that was December 11th, 1934. [00:48:33.320 – 00:48:36.280] Uh, and this is his, uh, hospital slip. [00:48:36.280 – 00:48:39.680] Uh, it also kind of, you know, it's a clear photograph of it. [00:48:39.680 – 00:48:42.820] Um, and it, it describes it all on this one page too.

[00:48:42.820 – 00:48:44.960] You can see patient, uh, William G. [00:48:44.960 – 00:48:45.540] W.. [00:48:45.540 – 00:48:48.390] You can see, uh, he was the, the age of 38. [00:48:48.390 – 00:48:52.000] Uh, his diagnosis was ALC or alcohol. [00:48:52.000 – 00:48:58.220] Uh, he was admitted December 11th, 1934, specifically 2:30 PM. [00:48:58.220 – 00:49:03.760] Um, his discharge date was December 18th, 1934. [00:49:03.760 – 00:49:10.080] And what's really crazy, it only cost him $125, but that back then, again, that was another giant chunk of change.

[00:49:10.080 – 00:49:13.780] But what's really fascinating is right in the center, it describes it. [00:49:13.780 – 00:49:24.060] It says, and in there it says "relapses." It also says "period of alcoholism," but most importantly "relapses." It says, "Relapse, page 162 [00:49:24.060 – 00:49:30.840] of book 20." And then underneath that it says, "Plus 3, this book," and this is volume 21. [00:49:30.840 – 00:49:34.890] In fact, this is, uh, volume, uh, page 65 of volume 21. [00:49:34.890 – 00:49:37.920] So, um, you know, one plus three equals four. [00:49:37.920 – 00:49:39.529] So that, I thought that was pretty cool. [00:49:39.529 – 00:49:41.529] Uh, it was…

[00:49:41.529 – 00:49:41.820] Anyway. [00:49:41.820 – 00:49:45.309] Um, timeframe is a l- little bit choppy here. [00:49:45.309 – 00:49:55.440] Uh, but basically, uh, between Bill's discharge date of December, uh, uh, 18th, 1934, to the editing of the original manuscript in 1939, uh, the chapter [00:49:55.440 – 00:49:59.020] Doctor's Opinion was written based on the experience of, uh, Dr. [00:49:59.020 – 00:50:04.580] S.'s years of experience in dealing with the plight of drinkers as well as hopeless alcoholics. [00:50:04.580 – 00:50:08.960] Now we're gonna kinda tie this, the subject matter of the, the second letter. [00:50:08.960 – 00:50:19.040] To just quickly recap, uh, Esther R., uh, wrote them, uh, Bill, uh, the letter where it basically states, "I think you should get an A number one physician."

[00:50:19.100 – 00:50:21.280] That was, uh, July 18, 1938. [00:50:21.280 – 00:50:25.340] Nine days later, he wrote the first letter, To W. It M. Concern. [00:50:25.340 – 00:50:28.420] Again, for, um, the, uh, fundraising. [00:50:28.420 – 00:50:34.760] Um, but no, it didn't, you know, the, he, he removed his, uh, uh, name from the, uh, the, the manuscript. [00:50:34.760 – 00:50:41.100] But basically, uh, an edited version, again, of that letter makes it into the book as letter number one. [00:50:41.100 – 00:50:45.990] Now later, uh, it talks about a second letter or referred to as a second letter. [00:50:45.990 – 00:50:56.380] I don't think it even says that, but it does say, "Has, uh, the doctor has been kind enough to enlarge upon his views in another statement which follows, and the doctor writes."

[00:50:56.380 – 00:51:01.900] Uh, from here it's, you know, kind of the formation of what we refer to as the, the, uh, the second letter in the doctor's opinion. [00:51:01.900 – 00:51:11.990] Now, in this letter, the most descriptive explanation of alcoholism from S. was abstractedly combined with two 1937 previously published works from [00:51:11.990 – 00:51:12.820] medical journals. [00:51:12.820 – 00:51:19.600] So he's publishing this, and again, keep in mind this is about a year before the book is starting to be, uh, uh, written. [00:51:19.600 – 00:51:26.200] Uh, these two works were dated March 17th and April 21st, boast in, both of them in 1937. [00:51:26.200 – 00:51:35.740] And when they combined, uh, they made the explanation and the remedy also with case studies of, uh, successful individuals, and it is as follows. [00:51:35.740 – 00:51:38.559] Uh, this is Alcoholism: Manifestation of an Allergy.

[00:51:38.559 – 00:51:42.460] Uh, again, uh, March 17th, 1937. [00:51:42.460 – 00:51:49.540] Now, S. uses descriptive summarization from this medically detailed work, uh, again in the m- the medical record. [00:51:49.540 – 00:51:56.120] Uh, but note that this was, uh, uh, wrote, uh, written, uh, a year before, uh, the chapter. [00:51:56.120 – 00:52:00.500] So also note, big heads up, uh, scientific phrasing ahead. [00:52:00.500 – 00:52:02.460] This is kinda meant for doctor to doctor. [00:52:02.460 – 00:52:07.760] It's definitely not for, like, laymen and alcoholics, so, uh, extremely scientific. [00:52:07.760 – 00:52:15.880] But, you know, just some excerpts on how they parallel the second letter of the doctor's opinion, or what, what we refer to as the second letter of the doctor's opinion.

[00:52:15.880 – 00:52:26.020] Uh, "It is our, uh, purpose to show that there is a type of alcoholic characterized by a definite symptomology and a fixed diagnosis indicative [00:52:26.020 – 00:52:28.460] of a constant and specific pathology. [00:52:28.460 – 00:52:32.840] In short, the true alcoholism is a manifestation of an allergy," right? [00:52:32.840 – 00:52:35.949] "We believe and so suggested a few years ago the a-" [00:52:36.154 – 00:52:46.344] action of an alcoholic on these chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy, that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never appears in the average temperate [00:52:46.344 – 00:52:46.824] drinker. [00:52:46.824 – 00:52:57.144] Um, down there, as the result of observations of numerous cases at T. Hospital, New York City, over a period of years, clinical consultants have been derived

[00:52:57.144 – 00:53:07.174] and data has been accumulated which indicate that subject, the, uh, the subject must be considered from a constitutional, oral, and serological [00:53:07.174 – 00:53:08.144] point of view. [00:53:08.144 – 00:53:11.564] Again, formed his opinion based on an observation. [00:53:11.564 – 00:53:21.784] Convincing testimony must come from medical men who have had experience with the suffering of our members and have witnessed our return to health, and I say this as medical director of one of the oldest [00:53:21.784 – 00:53:26.844] hospitals in the country drinking, uh, treating alcohol and drug alcoholism. [00:53:26.844 – 00:53:31.194] Uh, a heavy, uh, responsibility therefore rests upon the physician. [00:53:31.194 – 00:53:35.474] No other condition has attained such general and widespread proportions.

[00:53:35.474 – 00:53:45.484] No other disease entails such far-fetching suffering and disaster to families and friends, nor is there any other with which the [00:53:45.484 – 00:53:54.204] physician has been less able to cope with reasonable assurance of at least minimal, uh, minimizing its ravages. [00:53:54.204 – 00:53:55.164] Very technical. [00:53:55.164 – 00:54:05.204] In short, if any feel as psychiatrists directing a hospital, uh, uh, for alcoholics we appear somewhat sentimental, let them stand with us on the firing line, [00:54:05.204 – 00:54:08.424] see the tragedies, the despairing wives, the little children. [00:54:08.424 – 00:54:18.444] Solving of these problems become a part of their daily work, and even of their sleepless moments, and the most cynical will not wonder who, that we have accepted and encouraged [00:54:18.444 – 00:54:19.204] this movement.

[00:54:19.204 – 00:54:27.904] And again, faced with this problem, if a doctor is honest with himself, he must sometimes feel his own inadequacy. [00:54:27.904 – 00:54:31.484] This spree is characterized by certain, uh, definite physical symptoms. [00:54:31.484 – 00:54:35.104] In all such cases, the phenomenon of craving is prominent. [00:54:35.104 – 00:54:40.684] There are complete loss of appetite, insomnia, dry skin, hyper motor activity. [00:54:40.684 – 00:54:45.524] He has a feeling of anxiety which amounts to a nameless terror. [00:54:45.524 – 00:54:47.224] Wow, nameless terror. [00:54:47.224 – 00:54:55.264] He presents the picture of a person who has just finished a race but must have more stimulation to start again at once.

[00:54:55.264 – 00:55:00.324] Again, alcohol in itself does not produce these symptoms in the average individual. [00:55:00.324 – 00:55:08.904] After they have succumbed to the desire again, so many do, the phenomenon of craving develops and they pass through the well-known stages of a spree. [00:55:08.904 – 00:55:15.004] Urging remorseful with a firm resolution not to again, uh, drink again, and this is repeated over and over. [00:55:15.004 – 00:55:18.644] Uh, and, you know, kind of speeding this up. [00:55:18.644 – 00:55:28.714] It, you know, at this point, even during periods of partial or complete sobriety, he develops a state of anxiety amounting to a vague fear, then depression and lack of concentration [00:55:28.714 – 00:55:33.613] with gradually growing indifference and/or complete apathy towards his former interests. [00:55:33.613 – 00:55:39.924] Unreliability, changes in personality, loss of appetite, insomnia, tachycardia follow.

[00:55:39.924 – 00:55:47.654] He is under such tension in his effort to control himself that he has to have a drink in order to hold himself together. [00:55:47.654 – 00:55:57.724] To them, their alcoholic life seems the only one normal, and they are restless, irritable, and discontent until they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort that comes at once by [00:55:57.724 – 00:55:58.964] taking a few drinks. [00:55:58.964 – 00:56:01.704] And, and it, it continues. [00:56:01.704 – 00:56:04.244] Um, you know, we could, we could do this all night long. [00:56:04.244 – 00:56:11.124] Um, you know, after his first drink, then and only then does, uh, he experience this physical, uh, phenomenon of craving. [00:56:11.124 – 00:56:21.344] Now, this is cheating because this is more about alcoholism, but if hundreds of experiences have shown, uh, him that one drink means another debacle with all its attendant suffering

[00:56:21.344 – 00:56:24.404] and humiliation, why is it that he takes that one drink? [00:56:24.404 – 00:56:25.644] A mental obsession. [00:56:25.644 – 00:56:34.024] This is the baffling feature of alcoholism as we know it, the utter inability to leave it alone no matter how great the necessity or the wish. [00:56:34.024 – 00:56:36.244] Came out in 1937. [00:56:36.244 – 00:56:46.284] Uh, there is another class of allergics who exhibit paradoxicity, uh, another certain regular intervals predicted and given to, uh, uh, [00:56:46.284 – 00:56:48.584] days varying from months to years. [00:56:48.584 – 00:56:58.724] Uh, they are apparently normal, uh, during the succeeding intervals, and of course, there is the type who believes that entirely abstinent for a year they can drink without danger,

[00:56:58.724 – 00:57:05.944] or there is a type that is completely and entirely normal in every respect except for the effect alcohol has upon them. [00:57:05.944 – 00:57:11.624] Uh, and the manic depressive type who is allergic, however, goes on sprees. [00:57:11.624 – 00:57:21.144] Uh, and of course, it's parallels the manic depressive type who is perhaps least understood by his friends and of whom an entire chapter could be written. [00:57:21.144 – 00:57:28.614] We also have the constitutional psychopaths who become allergic to alcohol and are emotionally unstable and inadequate. [00:57:28.614 – 00:57:33.124] Uh, the prognosis in these cases is most unfavorable. [00:57:33.124 – 00:57:34.224] Not good news. [00:57:34.224 – 00:57:41.204] Uh, again, the psychopaths who are emotionally unstable, but most importantly, uh, they are always going on the wagon for keeps.

[00:57:41.204 – 00:57:46.024] They are over-remorseful and make many resolutions, but never a decision. [00:57:46.024 – 00:57:48.544] So it, it, it continues. [00:57:48.544 – 00:57:48.764] You know? [00:57:48.764 – 00:57:51.544] It does this for, uh, for, for, for- [00:57:51.840 – 00:57:53.000] The, the whole way through. [00:57:53.000 – 00:57:57.340] If y- if you can find it online, read it and, you know, maybe read them side by side. [00:57:57.340 – 00:58:01.460] Uh, it's, um, uh, uh, pretty, uh, pretty powerful stuff.

[00:58:01.460 – 00:58:06.780] Um, so I'm, I'm kind of speeding through this, but, you know, it just gives you an idea. [00:58:06.780 – 00:58:17.040] Um, now for the second one, uh, "What about the term moral psychology used in the second letter by S.?" Again, you know, w- and also in what is the solution? [00:58:17.040 – 00:58:21.270] "Perhaps I can answer this by relating one of my own experiences." Uh, that's Dr. [00:58:21.270 – 00:58:23.620] S., and he gives two letter… [00:58:23.620 – 00:58:26.260] uh, two examples in the doctor's opinion. [00:58:26.260 – 00:58:27.660] Uh, one is, uh, Hank P. [00:58:27.660 – 00:58:34.840] Uh, and the other one is, uh, Fitz M., and that's actually a 1942 photograph of, uh, uh, Fitz M., so I thought that was pretty cool.

[00:58:34.840 – 00:58:39.420] But along with Bill, um, both these gentlemen went through, uh, Charles B. [00:58:39.420 – 00:58:42.140] T. Hospital and, uh, worked with, uh, S.. [00:58:42.140 – 00:58:52.380] Uh, but the next publishing work, again, in 1937, describes, uh, an observation, uh, of an AA member, uh, Bill W., who found a solution [00:58:52.380 – 00:58:54.210] through this moral psychology, and Dr. [00:58:54.210 – 00:58:57.340] S. again uses scientific terminology. [00:58:57.340 – 00:59:00.430] And this is Reclamation of the Alcoholic. [00:59:00.430 – 00:59:04.440] This came out on M- April 21st of 1937.

[00:59:04.440 – 00:59:11.000] Uh, a little detail, kind of parallels more about alcoholism with detail on what alcoholism is. [00:59:11.000 – 00:59:21.560] But most importantly, again, here he talks about the remedy, uh, moral psychology, and uses Bill W. as a successful case that was once, uh, at one point considered [00:59:21.560 – 00:59:23.060] a hopeless case. [00:59:23.060 – 00:59:28.400] Uh, in fact, again, written a year before, uh, the, the start of the, the writing of The Big Book. [00:59:28.400 – 00:59:35.800] In fact, specifically, it says, "Moral psychology, we, we believe this decision is in the nature of an inspiration. [00:59:35.800 – 00:59:42.100] The patient knows he has reached a lasting conclusion and experiences a sense of great relief. [00:59:42.100 – 00:59:52.100] These individuals, introverts for the most part, whose interests center entirely in themselves, once they have made their decision, frequently ask how

[00:59:52.100 – 00:59:55.060] they can help others." Ooh. [00:59:55.060 – 01:00:05.259] "To such patients, we recommend moral psychology, and in those of our patients who have joined or initiated such groups, the change has been spectacular." [01:00:05.259 – 01:00:09.160] And the case study is, uh, you know, number 1152. [01:00:09.160 – 01:00:19.229] It talks about a broker, and that's Bill W., and it says, you know, "Who had earned as much as 25,000 a year, uh, and had come through alcohol to a position where he was [01:00:19.229 – 01:00:29.260] being supported by his wife down the ladder, uh, presented himself for treatment, carrying with him two books on philosophy, uh, from which he had hoped to get [01:00:29.260 – 01:00:36.840] new inspiration." Again, just a guess, um, but one is, you know, possibly, maybe even probably Varieties of Religious E.. [01:00:36.840 – 01:00:37.560] Just saying.

[01:00:37.560 – 01:00:47.560] Uh, but the most important is at the end, it says, "He gives part of his income to help others in his formal condition and has gathered about him a group of 50 [01:00:47.560 – 01:00:57.580] men, all free from their former alcoholism through the application of this method of treatment and moral psychology." So he doesn't come out and say, uh, you know, [01:00:57.580 – 01:00:59.060] spiritual experience. [01:00:59.060 – 01:01:09.060] Uh, you know, I think he's talking to other doctors and, you know, that might freak him out, but he definitely, you know, gives it a number- another name, like psychic change. [01:01:09.060 – 01:01:10.680] Uh, so from here, Dr. [01:01:10.680 – 01:01:14.530] S., uh, direct input, uh, for our program of action. [01:01:14.530 – 01:01:24.560] Now, the most valuable suggestion out of 100 deals, uh, with how, uh, we as AA members can better reach the still suffering alcoholics, and this was the home

[01:01:24.560 – 01:01:25.600] run, game changer. [01:01:25.600 – 01:01:35.720] Uh, the time, uh, of, of that, uh, peril of wisdom happened literally at the very beginning of success, um, and this is, uh, you know, the, the valuable [01:01:35.720 – 01:01:45.720] contribution to the AA program, and it was, uh, Bill and, um, uh, gets sober for the last time at T. Hospital, falls in key with Ebby T. and the Oxford G. in Calvary [01:01:45.720 – 01:01:46.040] Church. [01:01:46.040 – 01:01:49.900] They seek out other alcoholics in order to keep what they have. [01:01:49.900 – 01:01:52.300] Uh, in order to keep it, you gotta give it away. [01:01:52.300 – 01:01:58.680] Now, as it stands, uh, Bill had been working on Alcoholics for five months prior to his trip to Akron.

[01:01:58.680 – 01:02:06.320] Uh, the descriptive numbers are anywhere between half a dozen and 92, um, but with only one success, and that was himself. [01:02:06.320 – 01:02:08.030] He follows up with Dr. [01:02:08.030 – 01:02:09.800] S. at T. Hospital. [01:02:09.800 – 01:02:13.810] Uh, he shares his, uh, frustrations about all his failures. [01:02:13.810 – 01:02:19.980] Now, the doctor suggested that Bill do what S. did with him while he was in the hospital. [01:02:19.980 – 01:02:21.500] Again, game changer. [01:02:21.500 – 01:02:27.220] "Explain the problem as I have done with you." How cool is that?

[01:02:27.220 – 01:02:31.800] "Detail the two-part medical description of the problem and its hopelessness. [01:02:31.800 – 01:02:42.080] Emphasize it again as a chronic condition that gradually unfolds itself to a dismal end." Uh, and of course, you know, where we f- you can find this description [01:02:42.080 – 01:02:49.600] in AA Comes of Age, um, pages, uh, s- uh, 68, uh, s- 67 and 68, but it's all right here. [01:02:49.600 – 01:02:52.920] It says, "Have you also forgotten that Dr. [01:02:52.920 – 01:03:03.000] Carl J. in Zurich told a certain alcoholic, Rollin H, who, uh, later helped sober up your friend Ebby, that his one and only salvation [01:03:03.000 – 01:03:04.240] was a spiritual experience? [01:03:04.240 – 01:03:07.100] No, Bill, you've got the cart before the horse."

[01:03:07.656 – 01:03:13.296] You gotta deflate these people first, so give them the medical business and give it to them hard. [01:03:13.296 – 01:03:23.456] Pour it right into them about the obsession that condemns them to drink, and the physical sensitivity or allergy of the body that condemns them to go mad or die [01:03:23.456 – 01:03:24.696] if they keep on drinking. [01:03:24.696 – 01:03:31.956] Coming from another alcoholic, one alcoholic talking to another, maybe that will crack those tough egos deep down. [01:03:31.956 – 01:03:39.976] Then, uh, only then can you begin to, uh, carry out the other medicine, the ethical principles that you picked up from the Oxford groups. [01:03:39.976 – 01:03:42.136] Uh, again, game changer. [01:03:42.136 – 01:03:43.306] Who was the first person?

[01:03:43.306 – 01:03:45.656] Well, you know, he goes out to Akron. [01:03:45.656 – 01:03:51.976] Uh, you know, he's at the proxy fight with, uh, National, uh, Rubber and Machinery, uh, re- Machinery C.. [01:03:51.976 – 01:03:56.396] He's pacing the, uh, Mayflower H., specifically the lobby. [01:03:56.396 – 01:04:02.666] He describes it as, uh, you know, on one side the, the bar, and on the other side the, the telephone booth. [01:04:02.666 – 01:04:03.976] And of course the sign's there. [01:04:03.976 – 01:04:08.276] You can see coffee shop, phone booth, and then there's the Parisian B. over there. [01:04:08.276 – 01:04:18.296] Uh, so, you know, he makes a call to Reverend T., uh, gets in touch with Henrietta S., and of course then to Anne S., and that led to the meeting of Bill W. and

[01:04:18.296 – 01:04:18.376] Dr. [01:04:18.376 – 01:04:21.556] Bob, May 12th, 1935, following the advice of Dr. [01:04:21.556 – 01:04:22.316] S.. [01:04:22.316 – 01:04:29.636] Basically, here for the first time Bill talked about S.'s description of the problem and his own drinking habits and horrors. [01:04:29.636 – 01:04:30.356] Dr. [01:04:30.356 – 01:04:34.316] Bob immediately identified himself through Bill's experience. [01:04:34.316 – 01:04:40.956] That original, you know, 15-minute talk only, no more, turned into a over a six-hour talk.

[01:04:40.956 – 01:04:41.695] Dr. [01:04:41.695 – 01:04:44.996] Bob finally found someone who knew all about the drinking game. [01:04:44.996 – 01:04:46.776] In fact, he spoke my language. [01:04:46.776 – 01:04:47.456] Why? [01:04:47.456 – 01:04:49.476] Identification happened. [01:04:49.476 – 01:04:59.656] The importance of the first step from the doctor's opinion, including the first, you know, 45 to 47 pages out of 104 up to working with others are devouted- [01:04:59.656 – 01:05:03.396] devoted to this most, uh, important identification.

[01:05:03.396 – 01:05:03.656] Why? [01:05:03.656 – 01:05:07.976] Because if I don't relate to your problem, I don't have your problem. [01:05:07.976 – 01:05:18.176] And of course, uh, a quote that I, I pulled from, uh, Mary P., "If the newcomer does not know you suffer from the same things they suffer from, they will not be willing [01:05:18.176 – 01:05:21.136] to take your solution." And that was an Al-Anon. [01:05:21.136 – 01:05:22.136] How powerful is that? [01:05:22.136 – 01:05:27.396] Again, May 12th, 1935, so Bill decides to stay in Akron for a while. [01:05:27.396 – 01:05:31.736] Uh, again, estimate from the grapevine at this timeframe, uh, Dr.

[01:05:31.736 – 01:05:37.516] S. treats 40,000 to 50,000 alcoholics at Cr- uh, T. Hospital for 19 years. [01:05:37.516 – 01:05:42.336] Then, as if that wasn't enough, he took a second job, uh, there. [01:05:42.336 – 01:05:51.576] October 20th '45, uh, he, uh, took a job at Knickerbocker H., of which was the start of the first official AA ward in the world. [01:05:51.576 – 01:05:53.516] Um, a little different from St. [01:05:53.516 – 01:05:56.376] Thomas H., but this was the first kinda AA sponsor. [01:05:56.376 – 01:06:01.816] Uh, again, worked in both facilities, uh, until his death in 1951. [01:06:01.816 – 01:06:11.586] Uh, but the work at Knickerbocker H. seemed to center around members of Alcoholics Anonymous, one alcoholic helping another alcoholic to recover from this hopeless malady.

[01:06:11.586 – 01:06:21.656] Uh, separate, uh, several articles describe this alcoholism ward, uh, uh, like the 1946, uh, February G., uh, volume 2 number 9, where it [01:06:21.656 – 01:06:33.076] says basically, "Finally, Knickerbocker H., a small general hospital, not more than 200 beds, supported entirely by voluntary contributions, [01:06:33.076 – 01:06:40.876] uh, finally consented to a trial period of three months under these conditions." And of course the conditions are as follows. [01:06:40.876 – 01:06:51.356] Uh, continues, it says, uh, "W- we are assigned a dorm with a private wing consisting of private and semi-private rooms, together with a small six-bed [01:06:51.356 – 01:06:53.816] ward and compromising in all 19 beds. [01:06:53.816 – 01:07:03.916] The first patient was admitted Easter S., 1945." Uh, and it continues, "You know, the average length of stay is five days, which alcohol… [01:07:03.916 – 01:07:14.116] uh, which allows the patient a chance to get o- of, uh, get the alcohol out of his system and learn the true nature of the affliction and what the answer is." There's

[01:07:14.116 – 01:07:15.956] the discussion of that problem again. [01:07:15.956 – 01:07:22.736] Uh, "When he is ready for discharge he is met by his sponsor, uh, and brought, uh, to a meeting. [01:07:22.736 – 01:07:32.736] Uh, should he decide he needs AA he is welcomed, uh, if he feels, uh, as though his gr- uh, as well an accident, uh, i- if he's one of those it can't happen [01:07:32.736 – 01:07:39.176] to me types." So, um, you know, pretty, you know, his hand is shaken and, uh, goodbyes were exchanged. [01:07:39.176 – 01:07:42.096] So, uh, um, it continues. [01:07:42.096 – 01:07:52.376] Uh, Saturday E. Post wrote two articles on AA, um, and their work, uh, especially at Knickerbocker H., uh, not including the 1941, uh, article [01:07:52.376 – 01:07:55.636] where he, um, that was mentioned in the forward to the second editionary.

[01:07:55.636 – 01:08:02.656] Uh, but this is April 1st, 1950, and it's from Jack A. and it's entitled The Drunkard's Best F.. [01:08:02.656 – 01:08:13.296] And when you open it up you get a prime view of Duffy's Tavern at Knickerbocker H., a place where AA members would come and meet new recruits literally on a daily basis during, [01:08:13.296 – 01:08:17.226] uh, and throughout, uh, their five-day stay, possibly doing what Dr. [01:08:17.226 – 01:08:18.446] Bill, uh, Dr. [01:08:18.446 – 01:08:21.276] S. advised Bill just before Dr. [01:08:21.276 – 01:08:22.676] Bob, uh, meeting Dr. [01:08:22.676 – 01:08:22.846] Bob.

[01:08:23.040 – 01:08:27.540] up in, uh, May 12th, 1939, discussed the problem as I have done with you. [01:08:27.540 – 01:08:30.100] Uh, this is another article. [01:08:30.100 – 01:08:32.300] Uh, this came out in 1952. [01:08:32.300 – 01:08:42.420] Uh, it's actually, "I am a nurse in an alcoholic ward." Uh, it's, uh, presumed, um, written by a nurse, Teddy R., who specifically in detail talks [01:08:42.420 – 01:08:49.720] about the AA ward during the seven years of operation and the successes they have had in dealing with, uh, treating the alcoholics. [01:08:49.720 – 01:08:55.460] And again, this begins to start a lifelong thing as a practice. [01:08:55.460 – 01:08:56.340] Uh, Dr.

[01:08:56.340 – 01:09:06.360] S. and, uh, Nurse T.'s successful approach to treatment with the help of Alcoholics Anonymous will soon begin to spread, eventually the country and then the world, again, becoming a model [01:09:06.360 – 01:09:16.940] for help for alcoholics and proof that will be able to be duplicated from their friendship, uh, friends in Ohio, another godsend and a turning point of, uh, hopeless alcoholism. [01:09:16.940 – 01:09:21.680] And of course, here's another just photograph of the, the ward at Knickerbocker H.. [01:09:21.680 – 01:09:29.059] Now, we don't have a verified picture of Nurse T., but this is a photo used in the article, uh, about Nurse T.. [01:09:29.059 – 01:09:37.420] And again, it's described as follows, "After a month of daily increasing happiness, I was struck with an overwhelming sense of gratitude. [01:09:37.420 – 01:09:39.680] I felt I must do something in return. [01:09:39.680 – 01:09:45.760] When I learned about AA Ward in Knickerbocker H., I knew that something would have to be.

[01:09:45.760 – 01:09:49.800] I can't convey how much it means to see the transformation in people. [01:09:49.800 – 01:10:00.040] To know that I had some small part in this rebirth is a blessing far beyond what I deserve." Teddy R., a recovering nurse of NA, describes [01:10:00.040 – 01:10:07.220] her motivation for s- uh, seeking work in one of the earliest hospitals-based, uh, alcoholism units in New York City. [01:10:07.220 – 01:10:09.420] So pretty fascinating stuff. [01:10:09.420 – 01:10:14.020] Also with S., you know, he ma- story of Mac, you know. [01:10:14.020 – 01:10:16.140] Uh, you know, he may have goes for it this. [01:10:16.140 – 01:10:19.760] Uh, um, but you know, again, easy does it.

[01:10:19.760 – 01:10:30.100] I don't know where my time is, but, uh, it ta- you know, again, uh, although his story f- um, uh, you know, personal names including the views expressed, uh, you can see the, [01:10:30.100 – 01:10:40.100] uh, copyright is 1950 and, uh, it's signed with initials TFM and CET, and the bottom one says, uh, which might also [01:10:40.100 – 01:10:43.820] stand for Christ E. of For Our Times. [01:10:43.820 – 01:10:45.000] So I thought that was pretty cool. [01:10:45.000 – 01:10:51.680] And it comes all the way to, you know, the, one of the, the quotes in the final chapters of our book, Vision for You. [01:10:51.680 – 01:10:54.940] It says, "We are greatly indebted to the doctor in attendance there. [01:10:54.940 – 01:11:01.860] For he, although it might prejudice his own work, has told us of, uh, his belief in ours.

[01:11:01.860 – 01:11:07.540] Every few days, this doctor suggests our approach to one of his patients understanding our work. [01:11:07.540 – 01:11:16.920] He can do, uh, with this an eye to selecting those who are willing and able to recover on a spiritual basis." Page 162. [01:11:16.920 – 01:11:23.160] And this was, uh, the o- one of two scrolls that was written from the general service conference. [01:11:23.160 – 01:11:25.000] The other one went to the memory of Dr. [01:11:25.000 – 01:11:30.560] Bob, but this one, uh, went to, uh, William D. S., and it was signed by Leonard B. [01:11:30.560 – 01:11:34.920] S., again, Secretary of the General S. Conference, May 1951. [01:11:34.920 – 01:11:36.420] So one of the first ones.

[01:11:36.420 – 01:11:39.760] Uh, would it be a stretch also to say Dr. [01:11:39.760 – 01:11:47.500] S., uh, laid the groundwork for the following 1951 Lasker A., alcoholism classified as a illness? [01:11:47.500 – 01:11:57.500] That opened the door f- uh, basically for 1956, the AMA formally recognized the disease concept of alcoholism and made it possible with the help of [01:11:57.500 – 01:11:58.580] other AA members. [01:11:58.580 – 01:12:05.000] 1970 Hughes A., Alcohol A. Prevention T. and Rehila- Rehabilitation A.. [01:12:05.000 – 01:12:07.620] You know, insurance companies pay for treatment. [01:12:07.620 – 01:12:17.670] And again, a law making it possible for, for, uh, people to get help and, you know, not have to pay out of pocket because before that, and again, 1970 is when

[01:12:17.670 – 01:12:20.640] AA's population really started to climb. [01:12:20.640 – 01:12:23.440] And it comes to this, Dr. [01:12:23.440 – 01:12:23.980] William D. [01:12:23.980 – 01:12:31.900] S., little doctor who loves drunks, our society's great medical benefactor whose opinion marked a new epic in the annals of alcoholism. [01:12:31.900 – 01:12:40.390] Uh, the opinion that later became fact, and again, followed by the 1956 AMA acknowledgment. [01:12:40.390 – 01:12:48.200] So, you know, Hughes A., we just kind of talked about that, but, you know, that's, that's kind of the end, you know. [01:12:48.200 – 01:12:48.890] Uh, thank you, Dr.

[01:12:48.890 – 01:12:54.700] S., for your instrumental part in making it possible for us all to be around today. [01:12:54.700 – 01:12:58.240] And with that, I'm gonna hand it back to David. [01:12:58.240 – 01:12:59.620] Thank you, Drew. [01:12:59.620 – 01:13:00.560] That was wonderful. [01:13:00.560 – 01:13:03.160] You definitely got the liter into the pint glass. [01:13:03.160 – 01:13:04.160] Fantastic stuff. [01:13:04.160 – 01:13:06.720] Please unmute if you'd like to show some appreciation.

[01:13:06.720 – 01:13:07.380] I'm sure you will. [01:13:07.380 – 01:13:08.300] Thank you, everyone. [01:13:08.300 – 01:13:10.060] Thank you, Drew. [01:13:10.060 – 01:13:10.870] Thank you. [01:13:10.870 – 01:13:11.640] Thank you. [01:13:11.640 – 01:13:12.560] Thank you, Drew. [01:13:12.560 – 01:13:12.690] Thank you, Drew.

[01:13:12.690 – 01:13:13.160] That was phenomenal. [01:13:13.160 – 01:13:14.200] Thank you so much. [01:13:14.200 – 01:13:15.380] Thank you. [01:13:15.380 – 01:13:16.100] Thank you very much. [01:13:16.100 – 01:13:16.690] Thank you. [01:13:16.690 – 01:13:18.460] For all the work you've done and the research. [01:13:18.460 – 01:13:20.280] Thanks, Drew.

[01:13:20.280 – 01:13:21.100] That was awesome. [01:13:21.100 – 01:13:22.200] Greatly- Thank you. [01:13:22.200 – 01:13:23.500] Thank you very much. [01:13:23.500 – 01:13:24.720] Awesome. [01:13:24.720 – 01:13:25.790] Brilliant. [01:13:25.790 – 01:13:27.780] We'll have a Q&A, uh, s- session. [01:13:27.780 – 01:13:33.760] Uh, Drew, I think Drew can stay for about 20 minutes if you just get your questions ready, and Stuart will host that in a second.

[01:13:33.760 – 01:13:36.420] I just wanna mention some meetings that we have coming up quickly. [01:13:36.420 – 01:13:37.800] I just wanna go through this with you. [01:13:37.800 – 01:13:38.430] I know that- [01:13:38.576 – 01:13:42.876] a lot to take in, but while you're formulating your questions, there we go. [01:13:42.876 – 01:13:45.256] I just wanna mention, uh- Hello. [01:13:45.256 – 01:13:45.586] Hello. [01:13:45.586 – 01:13:45.815] Hiya.

[01:13:45.815 – 01:13:46.126] Sorry. [01:13:46.126 – 01:13:47.176] Next week we have… [01:13:47.176 – 01:13:49.096] This is just a work in progress, this flyer, by the way. [01:13:49.096 – 01:13:50.436] It's not, uh, ready to go. [01:13:50.436 – 01:13:52.416] But next week we have Beth D. [01:13:52.416 – 01:13:55.896] here with us, and Beth is gonna do a presentation on Imagine If. [01:13:55.896 – 01:13:58.316] So I just put up three there off the top of my head.

[01:13:58.316 – 01:14:04.336] Imagine if Bill didn't marry Lois, imagine if there was no Hank, and imagine if your sponsor didn't get sober. [01:14:04.336 – 01:14:08.836] There's lot of imagines, but Beth is gonna do a talk on that for us next week, so imagine if. [01:14:08.836 – 01:14:10.176] It's a fascinating talk. [01:14:10.176 – 01:14:12.056] Imagine if lots of things. [01:14:12.056 – 01:14:16.796] But ne- a- after that then we have the end of the month, Beth is coming back with Penny P. [01:14:16.796 – 01:14:26.806] and they're gonna do a talk on Let's Start at the b- very beginning, and I believe that's covering the forewords and the prefaces and the dust jacket and all the beginning [01:14:26.806 – 01:14:27.536] of the Big Book.

[01:14:27.536 – 01:14:29.696] Drew is coming back with us, you'll be pleased to know. [01:14:29.696 – 01:14:33.956] Drew, I know maybe you've told me this, like, but you're back on the 4th of February. [01:14:33.956 – 01:14:35.736] And what is the name of that talk? [01:14:35.736 – 01:14:37.835] Did we decide that or have you decided that yet? [01:14:37.835 – 01:14:44.116] But we, anyway, Drew's coming back on the 4th and, uh, we can talk about that in a minute. [01:14:44.116 – 01:14:49.256] I just wanna quickly m- mention that- Anybody- Yeah, go ahead, Drew. [01:14:49.256 – 01:14:51.336] I, I was just gonna say anybody got a coin?

[01:14:51.336 – 01:15:00.456] Well, we'll have a ch- listen, I, there's lots, maybe mu- we'll get you and Pat- Patrick O- uh, Patrick O'Donnell to come and do a talk maybe. [01:15:00.456 – 01:15:02.216] Maybe a, a discussion maybe. [01:15:02.216 – 01:15:03.096] Uh, just an idea. [01:15:03.096 – 01:15:04.596] Gary is here. [01:15:04.596 – 01:15:06.236] We might get Gary to come in as well. [01:15:06.236 – 01:15:07.416] We… [01:15:07.416 – 01:15:09.016] Thank you Gary.

[01:15:09.016 – 01:15:09.936] You acknowledged that. [01:15:09.936 – 01:15:11.236] Maybe, possibly. [01:15:11.236 – 01:15:13.996] But Bill's Story, um, just quickly do this. [01:15:13.996 – 01:15:14.496] So sorry. [01:15:14.496 – 01:15:16.136] Uh, chapter seven, Bill's Story. [01:15:16.136 – 01:15:21.036] We're on, uh, writing the Big Book, the creation of Alcoholics Anonymous, the marvelous book written by Bill S.. [01:15:21.036 – 01:15:28.136] We're on chapter seven and we have Jim W. out of Cancun, Mexico who's gonna read that chapter for us with the footnotes read by Riley K.

[01:15:28.136 – 01:15:29.896] out of Oregon, area 58. [01:15:29.896 – 01:15:33.736] And as you say, it's not a misprint, Bill's Stories it says. [01:15:33.736 – 01:15:35.576] I, I never knew there was Bill's Stories. [01:15:35.576 – 01:15:38.356] Fascinating, uh, chapter, Bill's Stories. [01:15:38.356 – 01:15:46.945] And, uh, if, if Al is there, if you wanna jump in Al, if you can quickly, if not, I'll keep going, but this presentation- Well, I- Yeah, go ahead Al. [01:15:46.945 – 01:15:54.386] Well, we have this coming up on February 26th, it's a Saturday, 9:30 to about 3:00. [01:15:54.386 – 01:15:56.896] We might stretch it a little bit with questions and answers.

[01:15:56.896 – 01:16:00.816] And everybody knows the, uh, usual suspects there. [01:16:00.816 – 01:16:06.856] Uh, we're gonna take a different view of the book Alcoholics Anonymous, and we're really looking forward to it. [01:16:06.856 – 01:16:15.896] Also, I wanna mention that on February 8th at our home group, Patrick will be doing, uh, Richmond W. and the 24 hour day book again. [01:16:15.896 – 01:16:17.736] Nice. [01:16:17.736 – 01:16:18.416] Nice one. [01:16:18.416 – 01:16:19.176] Nice choice. [01:16:19.176 – 01:16:20.316] Right.

[01:16:20.316 – 01:16:21.856] Um, thank you for that Al. [01:16:21.856 – 01:16:23.836] And uh, Marianne, you wanted me to mention this. [01:16:23.836 – 01:16:25.236] Please, do you wanna jump in Marianne? [01:16:25.236 – 01:16:27.576] Uh, sure. [01:16:27.576 – 01:16:30.036] Um, thanks David. [01:16:30.036 – 01:16:38.416] Um, yeah, I just wanted to mention that we started a new cycle of the Big, Big Book workshop that I'm doing, uh, last week. [01:16:38.416 – 01:16:40.976] So, uh, tomorrow we'll be on session two.

[01:16:40.976 – 01:16:44.496] Uh, so if anybody wants to join us, it's a great time to jump on. [01:16:44.496 – 01:16:46.036] And you'll put the link in the chat. [01:16:46.036 – 01:16:46.896] Thank you Marianne. [01:16:46.896 – 01:16:48.976] Yep. [01:16:48.976 – 01:16:51.396] For the time is the creating of liquor. [01:16:51.396 – 01:16:57.016] Oh, that was an advertisement I watched earlier, b- but, uh, Gary, did you wanna mention this again or someone wanna jump in on this? [01:16:57.016 – 01:17:01.045] January 28th and 30th, the end of the month symposium.

[01:17:01.045 – 01:17:01.516] Yes. [01:17:01.516 – 01:17:06.316] Uh, well, it's, uh, Bill S.'s gonna be there. [01:17:06.316 – 01:17:08.216] Mike F., uh, as well. [01:17:08.216 – 01:17:10.836] Quite a few voices, quite a few different topics. [01:17:10.836 – 01:17:18.616] It starts at 4:00 PM, uh, E- Eastern, and that's that's Pacific T. I believe, in the afternoon. [01:17:18.616 – 01:17:24.896] Runs F., all day Saturday, and, uh, uh, into, uh, half a day on, uh, Sunday. [01:17:24.896 – 01:17:29.956] Used to have to get on a plane and go to Sedona, Arizona to participate in anything like this.

[01:17:29.956 – 01:17:36.016] But anyway, there, there are probably, uh, 10 different speakers there and there'll be some panels as well. [01:17:36.016 – 01:17:37.786] Thank you Gary, for that. [01:17:37.786 – 01:17:43.076] And you can go to aahistorysymposium.org for more information on that. [01:17:43.076 – 01:17:43.956] Okay. [01:17:43.956 – 01:17:49.536] I, I'm sure you have some questions, so I'll just point out again that it's not a discussion meeting at this point, but we would… [01:17:49.536 – 01:17:51.976] Do stay behind if you wanna ask, get, get deeper into it. [01:17:51.976 – 01:17:53.536] But wow, that was awesome.

[01:17:53.536 – 01:17:54.276] Thank you Drew. [01:17:54.276 – 01:17:55.196] Wonderful stuff. [01:17:55.196 – 01:17:55.996] Over to you Stuart. [01:17:55.996 – 01:17:57.596] Hello again everybody. [01:17:57.596 – 01:17:58.716] Stuart, alcoholic. [01:17:58.716 – 01:18:06.936] If you'd like to be part of the meeting and, uh, come in and ask a question, then please do so by raising your hand in the participant section and I'll call on you. [01:18:06.936 – 01:18:09.716] And we're gonna start off this evening with Ron R.

[01:18:09.716 – 01:18:10.776] Good evening Ron. [01:18:10.776 – 01:18:12.016] Hey. [01:18:12.016 – 01:18:13.136] Thank you very much Drew. [01:18:13.136 – 01:18:14.496] That was a great presentation. [01:18:14.496 – 01:18:22.236] I don't know if you can do this or not, but is there any way you could put the picture of the medicines up there again that Dr. [01:18:22.236 – 01:18:23.216] S. was giving? [01:18:23.216 – 01:18:25.796] Also, uh, those two books.

[01:18:25.796 – 01:18:33.476] One was, uh, uh, uh, uh, Easy D. It, and then also that first draft of the Big Book, whatever it was, of Bill W.. [01:18:33.476 – 01:18:38.156] Any way you could just put those up on the screen for a second so I could write them down? [01:18:38.156 – 01:18:43.215] Yeah, I think, uh- Drew, Drew, did I just suggest- It's in here somewhere … [01:18:43.215 – 01:18:46.516] if that's okay Drew, it might be t- do you wanna do that later Drew? [01:18:46.516 – 01:18:48.536] Yeah, we can do, we can do that afterwards. [01:18:48.536 – 01:18:49.196] But yeah, when… [01:18:49.196 – 01:18:50.436] I'll, I'll, I'll throw those up.

[01:18:50.436 – 01:18:51.356] I'll g- I'll get them ready. [01:18:51.356 – 01:18:52.306] Thank you Drew. [01:18:52.306 – 01:18:54.026] And Drew, is it okay for me to put your email- [01:18:54.172 – 01:18:56.572] In the chat for people Abso- absolutely. [01:18:56.572 – 01:19:01.542] Absolutely If you want And I could, I could take shots of slides and send them to you, so that might be- I'd … [01:19:01.542 – 01:19:02.402] that might be easier. [01:19:02.402 – 01:19:03.472] Okay.

[01:19:03.472 – 01:19:09.692] Yeah, all this stuff I give, you know, all this stuff is, it's, you know, it's, uh, it's yours too, you know? [01:19:09.692 – 01:19:10.012] That's… [01:19:10.012 – 01:19:11.952] I don't know if that makes sense. [01:19:11.952 – 01:19:15.172] There's Drew's contact going into the chat if you wanna- Thank you … [01:19:15.172 – 01:19:15.872] send him an email. [01:19:15.872 – 01:19:17.592] Thank you, uh, Ron. [01:19:17.592 – 01:19:19.572] Thank you very much.

[01:19:19.572 – 01:19:21.112] We're gonna go to Gloria C. [01:19:21.112 – 01:19:21.472] now. [01:19:21.472 – 01:19:22.612] Good evening, Gloria. [01:19:22.612 – 01:19:24.192] Hi, everybody. [01:19:24.192 – 01:19:27.872] Gloria, alcoholic, and, uh, thank you very much, Drew. [01:19:27.872 – 01:19:34.262] That was, that was really it was very easy listening, and the hour, the first hour was over before I knew it. [01:19:34.262 – 01:19:34.263] Uh-huh.

[01:19:34.263 – 01:19:35.212] But, uh, anyway. [01:19:35.212 – 01:19:35.692] Yeah. [01:19:35.692 – 01:19:45.732] Um, I was kind of stuck back at the beginning where, um, S. went into the field of drug alcoholism and alcoholism, and [01:19:45.732 – 01:19:55.992] I wonder if you have a sense, uh, or facts about why he was motivated to go into such an, a thankless, at that time, [01:19:55.992 – 01:20:01.352] field, and, uh, a, a field where he saw people, you know, such devastation. [01:20:01.352 – 01:20:02.392] Thank you. [01:20:02.392 – 01:20:05.172] Ab- absolutely.

[01:20:05.172 – 01:20:15.222] I, I, I think, uh, you know, it was at that, at that time frame, it's, it's not really in black and white, but alcoholism in the early 1900s was [01:20:15.222 – 01:20:18.312] still that, you know, they don't wanna touch alcoholics, you know? [01:20:18.312 – 01:20:28.322] Alcoholism was, you know, if you're, if you're an alcoholic, you know, they, they didn't want you in their hospital if you were an alcoholic in, in, in several, [01:20:28.322 – 01:20:29.392] several places. [01:20:29.392 – 01:20:39.532] Um, and I think S. just got with the, the, the, the, you know, got behind the, the, the profession that he may be able to be of use for, and that [01:20:39.532 – 01:20:48.252] got him to the point, um, again, where regulation started happening and physicians ended up, uh, getting in trouble. [01:20:48.252 – 01:20:54.712] I think, um, one year they prosecuted, like, 1,000 physicians around the time, um, at, at, at some point.

[01:20:54.712 – 01:20:59.612] But yeah, alcoholism was still just, you know, that nobody wanted to deal with alcoholics. [01:20:59.612 – 01:21:09.852] Uh, I think he had a, a, a soft spot, but he, his first goal, I, um, it's described, and I got the feel that he really wanted to, uh, you know, alcoholism. [01:21:09.852 – 01:21:19.852] Might there have been a connection to Wor- World W. I, and, uh, perhaps a personal connection to, uh, [01:21:19.852 – 01:21:22.132] someone who suffered through that or…? [01:21:22.132 – 01:21:28.772] I, I think there's, there's, uh, a couple of references of, of things that he has seen. [01:21:28.772 – 01:21:33.792] Um, but I'm, I'm s- I don't have the name of, of, of, of that individual. [01:21:33.792 – 01:21:34.872] I could dig him up for you.

[01:21:34.872 – 01:21:35.712] Give me some time. [01:21:35.712 – 01:21:36.352] We'll find him. [01:21:36.352 – 01:21:39.712] Drew, it was also Prohibition at that time too. [01:21:39.712 – 01:21:40.672] Yeah. [01:21:40.672 – 01:21:42.972] Good, e- excellent point. [01:21:42.972 – 01:21:43.832] Excellent point. [01:21:43.832 – 01:21:46.732] Good.

[01:21:46.732 – 01:21:47.872] Thank you very much. [01:21:47.872 – 01:21:49.482] We're gonna go to Gary N. [01:21:49.482 – 01:21:50.552] now in Lynburn. [01:21:50.552 – 01:21:51.512] Hello, Gary. [01:21:51.512 – 01:21:52.032] Good evening. [01:21:52.032 – 01:21:52.972] Hi there. [01:21:52.972 – 01:21:53.552] Good evening.

[01:21:53.552 – 01:21:58.952] Um, Drew, uh, a Greek mystery, uh, and you dig up stuff. [01:21:58.952 – 01:22:01.792] I don't have any idea where you get it. [01:22:01.792 – 01:22:12.272] But there's a transition that goes from the 1910s when T. i- is claiming 100% effectiveness of the [01:22:12.272 – 01:22:16.672] belladonna treatment, and of course, that's his puke and purge, which lasts… [01:22:16.672 – 01:22:22.892] You, you, you're, you get the, uh, belladonna, uh, mixture on the hour for 50 hours. [01:22:22.892 – 01:22:23.952] All right? [01:22:23.952 – 01:22:29.462] And, and it's, it's absolutely fail-proof, always works, all right?

[01:22:29.462 – 01:22:39.612] But then we go to, into the '20s and the '30s, and T. Hospital turns out to be a drying out place for [01:22:39.612 – 01:22:41.792] the, where, you know, and that's where W.C. [01:22:41.792 – 01:22:44.732] Fields is, uh, now, uh, is one of the people. [01:22:44.732 – 01:22:47.372] Drew, uh, one of the Barrymores is there. [01:22:47.372 – 01:22:52.232] Uh, but also Hank P. is there 10 times. [01:22:52.232 – 01:23:00.172] Now, what do you think the chances are, or, or where would the T. Hospital records be? [01:23:00.172 – 01:23:03.552] And if anybody could dig them up, you could.

[01:23:03.552 – 01:23:13.612] But I w- I m- I have a great wish because only then do we get to figure out, what, how did S. actually treat people at T. Hospital? [01:23:13.612 – 01:23:14.992] What were his methods? [01:23:14.992 – 01:23:20.812] And do you know, I, I don't know what S. actually did to treat alcoholics. [01:23:20.812 – 01:23:25.162] He had his own idea, and it surely wasn't the puke and purge 50 hour- Yeah … [01:23:25.162 – 01:23:30.892] 'cause if Bill W. had been through that, he'd tell us about it. [01:23:30.892 – 01:23:31.592] Okay? [01:23:31.592 – 01:23:35.022] But he only mentions it briefly.

[01:23:35.022 – 01:23:36.782] So belladonna was used- Okay … [01:23:36.782 – 01:23:38.072] but we don't know how. [01:23:38.072 – 01:23:38.081] Yeah. [01:23:38.081 – 01:23:38.922] So how do you think… [01:23:38.922 – 01:23:42.132] Do we have any chance to find out where those hospital records might be? [01:23:42.132 – 01:23:52.172] Um, off the top of my head, um, number one, his son, Edward, uh, he, he may have, like, copies of, of, [01:23:52.172 – 01:23:55.042] of something, uh, along those lines.

[01:23:55.042 – 01:24:01.212] But also, you know, since it's, uh, uh, at that time, since 1909, it was a registered entity. [01:24:01.212 – 01:24:07.432] And so, uh, a lot of those things were, you know, controlled, regulated to at least some minute, uh, extent. [01:24:07.432 – 01:24:09.642] And, you know, so- [01:24:09.776 – 01:24:15.016] Somewhere in the, the city records there, uh, you know, hopefully there wasn't a fire. [01:24:15.016 – 01:24:20.136] Um, but, uh, s- city records would probably have some, some information of that. [01:24:20.136 – 01:24:30.156] I found this in, you know, I always go through legal, I always go through, um, the, the, the city and then the r- the, uh, um, uh, not the region, but, [01:24:30.156 – 01:24:32.176] you know, kind of the c- the county records.

[01:24:32.176 – 01:24:39.436] So I just keep looking and, you know, ringing bells, and sometimes every now and then one'll, one'll produce something. [01:24:39.436 – 01:24:47.096] But what's really fascinating is when I look for something, it was not there two days ago, but it's there today. [01:24:47.096 – 01:24:50.116] And then two days from that one place, it's still… [01:24:50.116 – 01:24:51.616] it's, it, it disappeared. [01:24:51.616 – 01:24:56.886] So it's like a constant regulation of just, uh, you know, looking all that, looking up all that stuff. [01:24:56.886 – 01:24:59.976] Um, they're around somewhere. [01:24:59.976 – 01:25:00.716] They have to be.

[01:25:00.716 – 01:25:01.776] They have to be. [01:25:01.776 – 01:25:09.516] Great. [01:25:09.516 – 01:25:10.116] Thank you. [01:25:10.116 – 01:25:12.636] Um, we're gonna go to Marsha P. [01:25:12.636 – 01:25:13.596] now. [01:25:13.596 – 01:25:14.356] Hello, Marsha. [01:25:14.356 – 01:25:14.956] Good evening.

[01:25:14.956 – 01:25:15.696] Hey. [01:25:15.696 – 01:25:16.716] Good evening, Stuart. [01:25:16.716 – 01:25:17.336] How are you? [01:25:17.336 – 01:25:22.496] Nice- Um, thank you for that wonderful, wonderful presentation. [01:25:22.496 – 01:25:26.856] Uh, I've long had a curiosity about, uh, Dr. [01:25:26.856 – 01:25:37.156] S., uh, because, uh, from my childhood, more than one or two occasions I witnessed my own father, [01:25:37.156 – 01:25:47.936] uh, I've witnessed men in white, in, uh, white vans jumping out of the van with straight jacket and straight jacketing my father

[01:25:47.936 – 01:25:57.696] and, uh, restraining him and taking him to an insane asylum that is called Eloise here in Detroit, uh, in the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan. [01:25:57.696 – 01:26:05.936] And, uh, Eloise was quite a notorious, uh, uh, insane asylum, as they called them in those days. [01:26:05.936 – 01:26:09.476] And I remember myself visiting my father. [01:26:09.476 – 01:26:12.136] My, my mom would take me there. [01:26:12.136 – 01:26:22.436] And, uh, and going through long corridors exactly like the photographs that you show with the, with the tile walls and the, uh, extremely [01:26:22.436 – 01:26:23.896] austere hospital look. [01:26:23.896 – 01:26:33.956] My question for you is: I, I look– I view all of that as a blessing because it allowed me when I came in the program

[01:26:33.956 – 01:26:40.136] to not question the inevitability of the outcome of alcohol, and, uh, because of what I had seen. [01:26:40.136 – 01:26:50.336] And, uh, my question to you is: The type of really barbaric treatment of alcoholics, uh, that existed, [01:26:50.336 – 01:27:00.456] uh, as you describe, did that tend to be a regional, uh, type of treatment where you in- where [01:27:00.456 – 01:27:05.626] you were investigating, uh, in the T. h- in, in the area, you know, where Dr. [01:27:05.626 – 01:27:16.006] S. practiced, uh, or was there a national kind of a trend to treat alcoholics, uh, in these various, [01:27:16.006 – 01:27:20.056] uh, really, uh, challenging ways? [01:27:20.056 – 01:27:25.056] Um, that, that's a great question.

[01:27:25.056 – 01:27:30.016] I, I, I would, I would look at it in terms of two different fields. [01:27:30.016 – 01:27:39.826] Uh, there is number one, like, the court-appointed, you know, you're, you're drunk again, you know, you, you go and detox at this facility. [01:27:39.826 – 01:27:43.436] Uh, and that's, like, way ab- below par. [01:27:43.436 – 01:27:47.416] The, the town's hospital is actually, like, the step above. [01:27:47.416 – 01:27:50.816] If you can afford it, then you can go there. [01:27:50.816 – 01:27:57.756] And it's like what he said, uh, earlier, you know, Hank, Hank went through 10 times, you know, 'cause Hank could a- could afford it. [01:27:57.756 – 01:28:02.036] Um, and, and you know, I mean, it's kind of, you know, we have it today.

[01:28:02.036 – 01:28:05.096] I mean, there w- you know, a while ago you saw the commercials, you know. [01:28:05.096 – 01:28:08.376] The one, one place, you know, the, the therapy was hot rocks. [01:28:08.376 – 01:28:11.525] I mean, I don't know what that does for alcoholism, but- … [01:28:11.525 – 01:28:14.356] you know, it's kind of the same thing, same thing there. [01:28:14.356 – 01:28:20.376] You know, it was, uh, the, you know, the, they, they, they just made it, made it worth the while. [01:28:20.376 – 01:28:22.176] Um, did some of them work? [01:28:22.176 – 01:28:32.615] But I also know on the flip side of that coin that there's kind of, you know, the i- in my own mind I would picture, like, the, the dungeon-type, you know, setup, uh,

[01:28:32.616 – 01:28:34.516] you know, of people that had to be there. [01:28:34.516 – 01:28:35.736] Um- Mm-hmm … [01:28:35.736 – 01:28:36.696] if that makes any sense. [01:28:36.696 – 01:28:37.696] Mm-hmm. [01:28:37.696 – 01:28:38.196] Mm-hmm. [01:28:38.196 – 01:28:39.956] Thank you. [01:28:39.956 – 01:28:42.096] Thank you very much.

[01:28:42.096 – 01:28:50.416] In fact, actually real quick, the, uh, um, when, when the book was printed in '39, uh, and one of the contributors, a Dr. [01:28:50.416 – 01:29:00.436] Percy P., you know, kind of was at- you know, attributed as giving some a- advice, um, you know, when he went out to California literally, uh, at that time frame at the end [01:29:00.436 – 01:29:10.596] of '39, and, uh, h- one of the first things he did in California was start a movement or at least bringing light on how the courts [01:29:10.596 – 01:29:14.756] used the mental hospitals for dumping grounds for alcoholics. [01:29:14.756 – 01:29:15.326] Mm-hmm. [01:29:15.326 – 01:29:15.486] Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. [01:29:15.486 – 01:29:18.376] And it, and it spread so thin- Mm-hmm …

[01:29:18.376 – 01:29:19.676] the, the, the, the… [01:29:19.676 – 01:29:21.736] And this was all at the San Francisco. [01:29:21.736 – 01:29:25.206] Several newspaper, uh, articles about it and, uh- [01:29:25.472 – 01:29:27.172] At P. Pollock, you know. [01:29:27.172 – 01:29:29.012] You know, made a mental note of that going out there. [01:29:29.012 – 01:29:31.972] I, I, I just thought that was pretty interesting. [01:29:31.972 – 01:29:33.712] Understood.

[01:29:33.712 – 01:29:33.742] Go ahead. [01:29:33.742 – 01:29:34.672] Thank you. [01:29:34.672 – 01:29:35.812] Thank you so much. [01:29:35.812 – 01:29:38.412] We're gonna go to Ron R now. [01:29:38.412 – 01:29:39.492] Good evening, Ron. [01:29:39.492 – 01:29:41.052] Hello again. [01:29:41.052 – 01:29:47.432] You know, I, um, my grandmother was an alcoholic, and she was treated with electric shock therapy- Oh …

[01:29:47.432 – 01:29:49.152] in the state hospital for alcoholism. [01:29:49.152 – 01:29:49.682] Mm-hmm. [01:29:49.682 – 01:29:51.052] I wonder if you know if Dr. [01:29:51.052 – 01:29:59.922] S. ever used that, or if and when that started coming out, 'cause that would've probably been in the '50s, '60s, or '70s- Mm-hmm … [01:29:59.922 – 01:30:00.312] possibly. [01:30:00.312 – 01:30:02.182] Do you know anything about that? [01:30:02.182 – 01:30:03.392] Mm-hmm.

[01:30:03.392 – 01:30:04.732] That I, I, I don't know. [01:30:04.732 – 01:30:07.232] I think, you know, that would be in that, that, that… [01:30:07.232 – 01:30:12.132] Oh, man, that would be a, such a score to find all those documents that Gary was talking about. [01:30:12.132 – 01:30:21.012] If we ever locate them, we, you know, we, we, you know, probably have to write another book uh, that, that, that describes all of that. [01:30:21.012 – 01:30:24.752] But, you know, I, I, I think they were trying everything and everything. [01:30:24.752 – 01:30:26.032] Um- Mm-hmm … [01:30:26.032 – 01:30:28.232] you know, that's just kinda my gut feel on that.

[01:30:28.232 – 01:30:30.062] Uh- And Dr. [01:30:30.062 – 01:30:32.072] S. never did, though, huh? [01:30:32.072 – 01:30:33.892] He never experimented with that, do you know? [01:30:33.892 – 01:30:35.192] I, I, uh, that I… [01:30:35.192 – 01:30:44.812] Uh, you know, I, I imagine that in the, uh, uh, specifically electric sho- shocks, I, I, I, I don't know if he did that. [01:30:44.812 – 01:30:51.832] I, I know Gary's, if he's still on, he may be able to, to answer that more, more so, 'cause he, you know, with, with that town's hospital. [01:30:51.832 – 01:30:57.582] But there wa- there was, at some point, it's still actually a, a valid, you know- Mm-hmm …

[01:30:57.582 – 01:30:58.571] they, they still use it. [01:30:58.571 – 01:30:59.852] I know places that'll use it. [01:30:59.852 – 01:31:00.612] That's right. [01:31:00.612 – 01:31:00.822] Yeah. [01:31:00.822 – 01:31:01.432] They do. [01:31:01.432 – 01:31:01.792] Mm-hmm. [01:31:01.792 – 01:31:02.172] Yep.

[01:31:02.172 – 01:31:02.832] I see. [01:31:02.832 – 01:31:03.212] Thanks. [01:31:03.212 – 01:31:08.612] That's one of those things that hasn't gone away, uh, and they get success for it, but- Mm-hmm. [01:31:08.612 – 01:31:09.192] That's right. [01:31:09.192 – 01:31:10.692] Mm-hmm. [01:31:10.692 – 01:31:11.692] The real buzz, huh? [01:31:11.692 – 01:31:12.542] Yeah.

[01:31:12.542 – 01:31:16.252] Yep. [01:31:16.252 – 01:31:20.922] That was terrible. [01:31:20.922 – 01:31:23.892] George, you're muted, Stuart. [01:31:23.892 – 01:31:26.952] Sorry about that. [01:31:26.952 – 01:31:29.112] Um, a bit noisy where I am. [01:31:29.112 – 01:31:32.552] Um, we're gonna go to Tony in Hertfordshire now. [01:31:32.552 – 01:31:35.112] Hey, guys.

[01:31:35.112 – 01:31:35.712] Me again. [01:31:35.712 – 01:31:36.432] How you doing? [01:31:36.432 – 01:31:37.292] Thank you, everyone. [01:31:37.292 – 01:31:37.652] Thank you … [01:31:37.652 – 01:31:37.682] uh … [01:31:37.682 – 01:31:38.332] for opening me. [01:31:38.332 – 01:31:43.672] Thank you everyone for being here, making me feel m- a lot, very, like, really enlightened again.

[01:31:43.672 – 01:31:48.382] Thanks for your brilliant, like, r- narration of what, of, of Dr. [01:31:48.382 – 01:31:49.792] William S.. [01:31:49.792 – 01:31:59.852] Um, what I noticed about y- your narration was that, um, at the very start of it you, uh, broke down the letter, To W. It [01:31:59.852 – 01:32:01.111] May C.. [01:32:01.111 – 01:32:04.232] Now, I've got a copy of Write! [01:32:04.232 – 01:32:12.632] in the big book here, but it comes to my surprise that I can't find any, like, breakdown of any kind of the doctor's opinion in Write! [01:32:12.632 – 01:32:12.832] a bit.

[01:32:12.832 – 01:32:15.672] Whether I'm totally stupid or what, I don't know. [01:32:15.672 – 01:32:22.611] But I haven't seen anything in Writing the Big, in The Creation of A, the, the book written by our man Bill S.. [01:32:22.611 – 01:32:33.192] I'm not asking why is that, but where can I find a more, like a breakdown as you, like, described so well, the whole, the doctor's opinion as a chapter. [01:32:33.192 – 01:32:35.132] Where would I find these references? [01:32:35.132 – 01:32:38.982] Is there only one, one straight cut reference, or is it a number of references? [01:32:38.982 – 01:32:41.892] Or can there be any posted? [01:32:41.892 – 01:32:45.232] I, 'cause I c- well, I would've sworn I would've found it in Writing the Big Book.

[01:32:45.232 – 01:32:48.292] That's the thing is, as far as I know, it's not in there. [01:32:48.292 – 01:32:58.792] It, you know, the, well, that, that first letter, I mean, you know, W- Bill and Hank, when, when, you know, they first started out going and seeking, you know, f- finance, [01:32:58.792 – 01:33:02.092] um, you know, funding help, I mean, you know, they… [01:33:02.092 – 01:33:12.112] It's like they walk into, you know, Daddy W.' office and they just say, "You know, well, you know, we're, we're a couple of, you know, gutter drunks, but we've been sober for 12, you know, maybe 18 [01:33:12.112 – 01:33:13.892] months, and we're gonna write a book. [01:33:13.892 – 01:33:16.352] Would you mind funding us?" You know, it's like- Mm-hmm … [01:33:16.352 – 01:33:19.332] that just doesn't, that's doesn't go over well, you know?

[01:33:19.332 – 01:33:20.902] Um- Mm. [01:33:20.902 – 01:33:25.552] Um, and, and, you know, he, he wrote that one letter, and he wrote it, uh, on Charles B. [01:33:25.552 – 01:33:30.752] Townes' letterhead, and th- that's what I thought was, was, was truly, uh, you know, fascinating. [01:33:30.752 – 01:33:32.472] It's that, that letterhead version. [01:33:32.472 – 01:33:42.812] Um, but, um, in terms of him actually writing, you know, it really, it r- I- I just looked at everything that he had written [01:33:42.812 – 01:33:47.452] so far, um, you know, all the stuff, even his 1908 articles. [01:33:47.452 – 01:33:51.752] You know, it really gives a good insight into, you know, what kind of mind he had.

[01:33:51.752 – 01:34:01.752] And, you know, the 1937 articles, I was reading that, and I just looked at it from, you know, context of one doctor scientific to another [01:34:01.752 – 01:34:07.332] doctor scientific, and it's almost the exact same thing that's in, you know, the, the, the doctor's opinion. [01:34:07.332 – 01:34:10.952] And it was, you know, well, it was, it was pretty, pretty fascinating. [01:34:10.952 – 01:34:12.072] Um- Yes … [01:34:12.072 – 01:34:18.672] but as for how and w- it, th- coming together, that I, w- that's, that would be something to look up. [01:34:18.672 – 01:34:20.212] Yes. [01:34:20.212 – 01:34:22.272] Uh, oh, that's great.

[01:34:22.272 – 01:34:23.531] Okay, thank you, chief. [01:34:23.531 – 01:34:25.942] Patrick wants to jump in there, Stuart. [01:34:25.942 – 01:34:26.112] You know- Yeah … [01:34:26.112 – 01:34:26.922] remember, Dr. [01:34:26.922 – 01:34:31.092] S. did not write that doctor's opinion the whole chapter. [01:34:31.092 – 01:34:31.952] Yeah. [01:34:31.952 – 01:34:34.112] He just wrote portions of it.

[01:34:34.112 – 01:34:39.832] Bill W. and Hank did the rest of the fill in, and it's kind of shady on where, where Dr. [01:34:39.832 – 01:34:40.872] S. sto- [01:34:40.997 – 01:34:42.188] starts and, and where he ends. [01:34:42.188 – 01:34:52.508] So you might be looking for something that doesn't exist And, and that, that first letter is the only one that, you know, is, is almost a snapshot of verbatim [01:34:52.508 – 01:34:54.388] of, that predates the book. [01:34:54.388 – 01:34:56.128] But, you know, they don't say the… [01:34:56.128 – 01:34:58.508] They just say that Doctor writes, you know, but no date.

[01:34:58.508 – 01:35:04.988] So it, it totally parallels the 37, uh, w- reclamation of an alcoholic. [01:35:04.988 – 01:35:09.498] Uh, uh, I mean, that's some fascinating stuff, just how they detail that. [01:35:09.498 – 01:35:10.698] It's all over the place. [01:35:10.698 – 01:35:12.688] On page f- sorry, Stuart. [01:35:12.688 – 01:35:20.268] On page 538 of the Writing the Big Book, he says, "The source of the chapter and its position in the book." Tony, if you wanna just jump up to that. [01:35:20.268 – 01:35:20.728] What's that? [01:35:20.728 – 01:35:22.488] 538.

[01:35:22.488 – 01:35:24.548] Page 538 of Writing the Big Book. [01:35:24.548 – 01:35:29.648] Uh, "The source of the chapter and its position in the book." Ah, yes. [01:35:29.648 – 01:35:30.308] Okay. [01:35:30.308 – 01:35:30.598] Got it. [01:35:30.598 – 01:35:34.328] And there's also S.'s theories of alcoholism and endorsement of AA. [01:35:34.328 – 01:35:35.388] Yes. [01:35:35.388 – 01:35:36.528] That's …

[01:35:36.528 – 01:35:37.368] full on ask. [01:35:37.368 – 01:35:37.848] Yeah. [01:35:37.848 – 01:35:41.048] We could do, w- we, we could do a whole two hours on that as well. [01:35:41.048 – 01:35:42.188] Back to you, Stuart. [01:35:42.188 – 01:35:43.678] Start off in the- Okay. [01:35:43.678 – 01:35:43.679] Bye … [01:35:43.679 – 01:35:46.628] start off in the sighting and then- Thank you for that.

[01:35:46.628 – 01:35:47.778] Yeah. [01:35:47.778 – 01:35:50.078] I think we'll, for our final question tonight- Oh … [01:35:50.078 – 01:35:51.368] we're gonna go to Kathy K. [01:35:51.368 – 01:35:52.788] Hello, Kathy. [01:35:52.788 – 01:35:53.348] Good evening. [01:35:53.348 – 01:35:54.468] Hi. [01:35:54.468 – 01:35:55.128] Thank you.

[01:35:55.128 – 01:35:57.928] Um, I just have a quick question. [01:35:57.928 – 01:36:07.928] You know the, um, one of the slides about Knickerbocker H., I don't know if I read this correctly, but did it say that [01:36:07.928 – 01:36:12.908] AA would be responsible for, uh, the bill? [01:36:12.908 – 01:36:14.208] Yep. [01:36:14.208 – 01:36:16.048] Wow. [01:36:16.048 – 01:36:16.428] Yeah. [01:36:16.428 – 01:36:18.238] And you can actually find that.

[01:36:18.238 – 01:36:20.268] It's, uh, in the Grapevine article. [01:36:20.268 – 01:36:26.828] Uh, it's, it, it's in, uh, February, uh, 9, volume two, number nine. [01:36:26.828 – 01:36:29.868] So it's the February G., volume two, number nine article. [01:36:29.868 – 01:36:32.488] They got a vouch for the bill. [01:36:32.488 – 01:36:33.328] Yep. [01:36:33.328 – 01:36:33.928] Wow. [01:36:33.928 – 01:36:34.768] Okay.

[01:36:34.768 – 01:36:36.028] Thank you very much. [01:36:36.028 – 01:36:40.588] A, AA to guarantee payment of all bills. [01:36:40.588 – 01:36:41.518] Wow. [01:36:41.518 – 01:36:42.528] That was number one, yeah. [01:36:42.528 – 01:36:45.668] Okay. [01:36:45.668 – 01:36:47.248] That's been a really good Q&A. [01:36:47.248 – 01:36:49.148] Thank you, everybody, for taking part.

[01:36:49.148 – 01:36:51.388] I'm gonna hand the meeting back to David now. [01:36:51.388 – 01:36:55.028] I've been asked, has Patrick had a commitment to talk with Drew? [01:36:55.028 – 01:36:57.188] Someone's asked me. [01:36:57.188 – 01:37:00.408] For February, when did I- We talk a lot … [01:37:00.408 – 01:37:01.607] Sorry, go ahead, Patrick. [01:37:01.607 – 01:37:02.678] We talk a lot. [01:37:02.678 – 01:37:03.498] All right.

[01:37:03.498 – 01:37:06.768] But you're gonna come talk and sh- help us, uh, understand stuff more. [01:37:06.768 – 01:37:15.588] He, he sent me the s- It's gonna be- He sent me the, uh, Sam S. talk about, you know, never, ever meeting s- uh, uh, S.. [01:37:15.588 – 01:37:18.508] Could we, could we do that? [01:37:18.508 – 01:37:20.468] Wouldn't you think that they would've had lunch together? [01:37:20.468 – 01:37:21.227] They never met. [01:37:21.227 – 01:37:22.708] They, they never met. [01:37:22.708 – 01:37:23.988] It's like high five.

[01:37:23.988 – 01:37:25.028] But Sam, Sam buried him. [01:37:25.028 – 01:37:26.218] Sam ran the- I- … [01:37:26.218 – 01:37:27.378] Sam ran the funeral. [01:37:27.378 – 01:37:33.288] Who would like to have Drew page Patrick O'D and maybe someone else here in sometime. [01:37:33.288 – 01:37:33.958] Who would like that? [01:37:33.958 – 01:37:34.358] Hands up. [01:37:34.358 – 01:37:35.068] Who would like that?

[01:37:35.068 – 01:37:36.028] Anyone? [01:37:36.028 – 01:37:36.938] So that's a unanimous. [01:37:36.938 – 01:37:39.828] Look, that's a un- Hand claps and G- whistle. [01:37:39.828 – 01:37:43.268] So we, we'll try and make that happen for February, Drew, yeah? [01:37:43.268 – 01:37:45.968] We'll, we'll, we'll, we can figure something out. [01:37:45.968 – 01:37:46.788] Figure something. [01:37:46.788 – 01:37:47.008] Yeah.

[01:37:47.008 – 01:37:47.388] Thank you. [01:37:47.388 – 01:37:51.568] We, we much, uh, Tommy K, I must get Tommy K in from Sligo, the West of Ireland man. [01:37:51.568 – 01:37:54.148] Tommy, Stuart will get me into trouble. [01:37:54.148 – 01:37:56.208] You'll get me into Stuart was troub- uh, trouble with Stuart. [01:37:56.208 – 01:37:58.068] Go ahead, Tommy. [01:37:58.068 – 01:38:01.028] Tommy, you're muted. [01:38:01.028 – 01:38:02.208] I don't know who muted you.

[01:38:02.208 – 01:38:03.088] Hi. [01:38:03.088 – 01:38:03.428] Hi, David. [01:38:03.428 – 01:38:10.988] I was just reacting to your, um, request for having- Oh, well done, Tommy Y.'re a good man. [01:38:10.988 – 01:38:12.757] You're a good man. [01:38:12.757 – 01:38:14.168] We love having Drew here. [01:38:14.168 – 01:38:15.888] Drew, we do appreciate you very much. [01:38:15.888 – 01:38:18.168] I'm sure everyone, uh, agrees with that.

[01:38:18.168 – 01:38:19.128] Yes, everyone's agreeing. [01:38:19.128 – 01:38:20.648] But a fantastic Drew. [01:38:20.648 – 01:38:21.998] Can I just, can I just ask a quick question? [01:38:21.998 – 01:38:22.448] Sorry. [01:38:22.448 – 01:38:22.808] Tara. [01:38:22.808 – 01:38:23.628] Oh, Tara. [01:38:23.628 – 01:38:24.088] Hello, Ta- Yeah …

[01:38:24.088 – 01:38:25.108] where are you coming in from, Tara? [01:38:25.108 – 01:38:27.168] I'm from Tralee, County K. in Ireland. [01:38:27.168 – 01:38:27.968] Oh, wonderful. [01:38:27.968 – 01:38:28.208] Dando. [01:38:28.208 – 01:38:28.928] Oh, welcome. [01:38:28.928 – 01:38:29.888] Hey, good stuff. [01:38:29.888 – 01:38:40.088] I was just wondering, um, just, like, I just came on this meeting by an accident, but is there somewhere, like, a group or, or an email address that we can, like, like,

[01:38:40.088 – 01:38:43.748] access when the, the, the workshops are on or anything along that line? [01:38:43.748 – 01:38:44.088] Yeah, I, I… [01:38:44.088 – 01:38:45.148] Thank you, Tara. [01:38:45.148 – 01:38:46.838] I put my details. [01:38:46.838 – 01:38:49.348] Send me an email and I'll put you on the contact list, okay? [01:38:49.348 – 01:38:50.788] I put it back in the chat again for you. [01:38:50.788 – 01:38:51.728] Thanks, David.

[01:38:51.728 – 01:38:52.488] Thanks very much. [01:38:52.488 – 01:38:53.268] Thanks, man. [01:38:53.268 – 01:38:53.418] Yes. [01:38:53.418 – 01:38:54.428] Nice to have you here, Tara. [01:38:54.428 – 01:38:54.928] There you go. [01:38:54.928 – 01:38:55.438] Thanks a mil. [01:38:55.438 – 01:38:57.128] You'll get, you'll get all the flyers.

[01:38:57.128 – 01:38:57.887] It's good stuff. [01:38:57.887 – 01:38:58.648] All right. [01:38:58.648 – 01:38:59.228] Thanks a mil. [01:38:59.228 – 01:38:59.588] Thank you. [01:38:59.588 – 01:39:00.748] Thank you. [01:39:00.748 – 01:39:02.077] Drew, we're gonna go back to you- Oh … [01:39:02.077 – 01:39:02.748] uh, shortly.

[01:39:02.748 – 01:39:08.108] Uh, and we're gonna, and to close maybe with a prayer or some reflections if you wish, Drew. [01:39:08.108 – 01:39:09.088] Sounds good. [01:39:09.088 – 01:39:09.728] Sounds good. [01:39:09.728 – 01:39:10.888] Uh, uh- Cheers … [01:39:10.888 – 01:39:16.548] why don't we just go ahead and, you know, end it as we started it, you know, maybe the serenity prayer. [01:39:16.548 – 01:39:26.568] God G. God G. me the serenity Grant me the serenity To accept To accept the [01:39:26.568 – 01:39:28.468] things we cannot change.

[01:39:28.468 – 01:39:36.028] Courage to change the things I can And And wisdom And the wisdom To know the difference. [01:39:36.028 – 01:39:37.908] Thank you, everyone. [01:39:37.908 – 01:39:39.928] Now that I thought about it- Thank you, Drew … [01:39:39.928 – 01:39:41.348] I, I would encourage them to- Thanks very much. [01:39:41.348 – 01:39:42.548] We really appreciate it. [01:39:42.548 – 01:39:43.168] Thank you. [01:39:43.168 – 01:39:45.028] Very, very interesting.

[01:39:45.028 – 01:39:45.578] Thank you. [01:39:45.578 – 01:39:45.808] Yeah. [01:39:45.808 – 01:39:49.308] Oh, she's very, very interesting. [01:39:49.308 – 01:39:50.428] I like that. [01:39:50.428 – 01:39:52.248] Everyone. [01:39:52.248 – 01:39:53.988] Well done, Hugh. [01:39:53.988 – 01:39:55.388] Drew, what were you saying?

[01:39:55.388 – 01:39:56.397] You, I'm gonna pause-