Transcript

[00:02.5 – 00:03.4] My name's Beth Hartley. [00:03.4 – 00:04.4] I'm an alcoholic. [00:04.4 – 00:05.6] Hi, Beth. [00:05.6 – 00:12.3] And through the grace of God and the actions and fellowship of AA and sponsorship, I've been sober since June 26, 1988. [00:12.3 – 00:20.5] Getting sober in June was a requirement for participation this morning, so… [00:20.5 – 00:23.5] It's like, is it really bright in here? [00:23.5 – 00:26.2] I mean, it, it's like I always sit here. [00:26.2 – 00:30.1] Uh, I think it's just still that all those years of Sunday mornings, you know what I mean? [00:30.1 – 00:30.2] Mm-hmm. [00:30.2 – 00:39.6] Of just like waking up and going, "God, it's bright in here." Although you guys look way better than most of what I woke up with on Sunday mornings. [00:39.6 – 00:43.1] I guess I'm coming up in the world. [00:43.1 – 00:45.6] Um, it's been a fun weekend. [00:45.6 – 00:47.2] I'm so glad you guys came down. [00:47.2 – 00:48.3] It's… [00:48.3 – 00:50.8] Um, no, that's okay. [00:50.8 – 00:52.8] Thanks. [00:52.8 – 00:56.2] Probably good for me to, like, really see things as they are. [00:56.2 – 01:00.7] Um, especially with my sponsor sitting here, it'd be harder to, harder to lie. [01:00.7 – 01:09.2] Um, anyways, um, gosh, I, I've been going to AA meetings on and off since 1967. [01:09.2 – 01:15.2] So, uh, I'm, uh, I guess if I'd have just kept going continuously, I'd be almost up there with Peggy. [01:15.2 – 01:21.4] But, uh, my dad joined AA in 1967, '66 when I was seven years old. [01:21.4 – 01:25.4] So, uh, I've always known about Alcoholics Anonymous. [01:25.4 – 01:30.6] I, pretty much what I knew about it was you can't drink anymore if you say that you're an alcoholic. [01:30.6 – 01:38.3] So I was very careful once I started drinking to never mutter that A word in the same sentence with my name, because I knew it meant don't drink. [01:38.3 – 01:46.9] And I knew that AA was, you know, in smoky church basements with old guys who drank coffee and ate donuts because I'd seen it myself. [01:46.9 – 01:53.6] Um, you know, in retrospect, all those old guys were probably 30, 35, but I was 7, so I was… [01:53.6 – 02:01.2] You know, if you were ever at the Friday night Hamilton meeting, I was the little kid over in the corner with a coloring book because it was an open meeting and mom and dad didn't have to get a sitter. [02:01.2 – 02:07.0] So my dad, you know, he– I didn't grow up with drinking parents, screaming parents. [02:07.0 – 02:08.5] My mom is not an alcoholic. [02:08.5 – 02:14.3] I've often thought, really, if she hadn't actually given birth to me, I would wonder if we're related, you know. [02:14.3 – 02:16.8] She just, she just doesn't drink right. [02:16.8 – 02:18.4] She, you know, two or three drinks. [02:18.4 – 02:21.4] She used to have about five or six drinks a year, you know. [02:21.4 – 02:22.4] I mean, she just… [02:22.4 – 02:24.3] And probably four of those were at Christmas. [02:24.3 – 02:27.6] And I know my thinking's different than hers because they… [02:27.6 – 02:31.7] She, she used to work in a big accounting firm, and they would, you know, always have a Christmas party. [02:31.7 – 02:36.0] So that's probably where she had two drinks, you know, out of her six for the year at this party. [02:36.0 – 02:44.4] And I was five years sober, and, and the invitation came one, one year, and she looked at it, she looked at her calendar, and she said, "Oh, I can't go," and she tossed it aside. [02:44.4 – 02:46.5] And my first thought was, when will you drink? [02:46.5 – 02:47.3] You know? [02:47.3 – 02:50.3] No, this is like a third of your drinking. [02:50.3 – 02:51.3] You have to go. [02:51.3 – 02:54.1] But she just, you know, she doesn't care. [02:54.1 – 02:55.6] I don't know what's wrong with her. [02:55.6 – 03:00.0] Um, anyways, I, um, I was a busy kid. [03:00.0 – 03:01.2] I just, you know… [03:01.2 – 03:03.7] And, and on the outside, I probably looked pretty well adjusted. [03:03.7 – 03:07.2] I mean, I, I was on a swim team when I was younger, and, and I was always… [03:07.2 – 03:09.2] I had great leadership potential. [03:09.2 – 03:11.3] That's what my first grade report card said. [03:11.3 – 03:17.0] Said, "Beth, Beth has great leadership qualities, but she tends to be a bit bossy at times," you know. [03:17.0 – 03:17.6] Oh. [03:17.6 – 03:18.9] Yeah, I know. [03:18.9 – 03:19.8] Hard to believe, isn't it? [03:19.8 – 03:21.5] Good thing that's worn off, right? [03:21.5 – 03:29.2] Um, so, but I always had this thing going on the inside, you know, that the head was always running. [03:29.2 – 03:37.2] Peggy talked about those voices up here, and I always had them too, and I couldn't, I couldn't talk to you without being acutely aware of how I looked to you over here. [03:37.2 – 03:39.2] You know, if I'm talking to you, do I look good? [03:39.2 – 03:39.8] Are we laughing? [03:39.8 – 03:40.8] Are we having a good time? [03:40.8 – 03:46.1] Um, I'd never ask questions because it just wasn't all right not to know. [03:46.1 – 03:49.3] If I asked you a question, you would know I didn't know. [03:49.3 – 03:57.8] I didn't ask questions in school because, uh, you know, teachers are, are teaching new subjects, but I should already know it, so I can't ask, you know. [03:57.8 – 04:00.7] And, and I got embarrassed for you if you asked a question. [04:00.7 – 04:05.5] I just thought, you know, like you were marked for life if you asked a question in class or something. [04:05.5 – 04:10.4] I didn't, um, I didn't do things if I didn't do them well. [04:10.4 – 04:14.5] Uh, if I couldn't immediately do it, I just assumed I wasn't meant to do it. [04:14.5 – 04:17.4] You know, it, I, it was real black and white to me. [04:17.4 – 04:19.1] Either you were good at things or you weren't. [04:19.1 – 04:21.1] Either you play the piano or you don't, you know. [04:21.1 – 04:25.6] Either you know how to do your hair like that or some people's hair just doesn't do that. [04:25.6 – 04:28.5] You know, you can, you can play basketball or you can't. [04:28.5 – 04:36.6] Um, I never– It never dawned on me that all my friends who played piano really well, that there were times they couldn't come out and play because they had piano lessons. [04:36.6 – 04:39.2] You know, I never connected those dots. [04:39.2 – 04:47.4] That the reason they could play the piano well is because their mothers made them practice for hours, or they, they took lessons, or they wanted to. [04:47.4 – 04:52.0] You know, I sat down, tried it two or three times and thought, well, I'm just not a piano player, you know. [04:52.0 – 05:02.0] Um, and so somewhere along the line, that, that stuff that I'm sure my parents were teaching me of, like, set a goal, work for the goal, achieve [05:02.0 – 05:04.9] the goal, you know, it just went over my head. [05:04.9 – 05:06.9] Um, I'm glad Sarah's not… [05:06.9 – 05:14.4] I always tell this story about my daughter because it, it clearly illustrates to me how different our thinking is even… [05:14.4 – 05:16.0] You know, this is before I drank. [05:16.0 – 05:18.7] When she was nine years old, she wanted to be on a swim team. [05:18.7 – 05:22.2] And she didn't swim really at all, so we got her a few lessons. [05:22.2 – 05:25.9] But when she went and tried out for this team, she pretty much could do freestyle, and that was it. [05:25.9 – 05:28.7] And, um, and– No, she was eleven. [05:28.7 – 05:29.2] I'm sorry. [05:29.2 – 05:29.9] She was eleven. [05:29.9 – 05:39.9] So she went, and the, the coach said, "You can be on the team, but you'll need to, you know, you need to practice with the nine-year-olds because you can't keep up with your age group yet." And that [05:39.9 – 05:41.1] was fine with her. [05:41.1 – 05:46.8] Now, I, you know, even at eleven years old, I would have been like, "I don't think so. [05:46.8 – 05:49.4] You know, I don't think I could swim with the nine-year-olds. [05:49.4 – 05:52.6] I need eleven." You know, but that was okay with her. [05:52.6 – 06:02.4] And, um, and she went to her first big meet, you know, it was a big USS thing, and, and there were, uh, heats, and they post your time with your first and last name, you know. [06:02.4 – 06:07.5] And she was seventieth out of seventy-two on Saturday, and she went back on Sunday. [06:07.5 – 06:10.6] I couldn't have done it. [06:10.6 – 06:14.1] Um, now I would've gone, but then I would've had, you know, a cramp or something. [06:14.1 – 06:16.1] I wouldn't have been able to actually get in the water. [06:16.1 – 06:18.5] Um, but it would've been a, a great effort. [06:18.5 – 06:19.9] You know, I would've wanted to, but … [06:19.9 – 06:29.5] And, uh, and we had told her swimming's a competitive sport, but, you know, you have your base time now, and if you beat your time, you've had a successful race, even if you don't win. [06:29.5 – 06:33.1] And, and I'm thinking while I'm telling her this stuff, yeah, right, you know? [06:33.1 – 06:41.3] I mean, that's just in the parent handbook of what, you know, those pep talks you give your kids, but nobody really buys into that crap, do they, you know? [06:41.3 – 06:43.9] And, and she beat her time, and she was happy. [06:43.9 – 06:50.7] So I'm thinking, you know, for me, it would've been swim with the nine-year-olds, strike one, you know. [06:50.7 – 06:53.8] Uh, 70th out of 72, strike two. [06:53.8 – 06:58.0] And, um, and I didn't win the next time, 'cause that would've been my second tryout. [06:58.0 – 06:59.7] Strike three, I'm out of here. [06:59.7 – 07:07.3] And, uh, and you know, of course, what happened with Sarah is she kept going to practice, and two years later she was a state AA swimmer. [07:07.3 – 07:13.9] She was in the Junior Olympics at Keating, you know, um, because she showed up and practiced and had a goal and set a goal. [07:13.9 – 07:16.3] I would've missed all of that. [07:16.3 – 07:17.7] I wouldn't have done it. [07:17.7 – 07:23.6] I would've turned around and walked away the day they said you need to practice with the nine-year-olds, and I w- I was 11. [07:23.6 – 07:25.9] I mean, we're not even talking drinking yet, you know? [07:25.9 – 07:29.5] So she just doesn't think like we think. [07:29.5 – 07:31.6] Sometimes Chuck and I don't really know … [07:31.6 – 07:32.3] Well, Peggy knows. [07:32.3 – 07:42.4] I mean, so we, we tell Sarah a lot, "Well, you know, there needs to be one mature one in the house, and it looks like it's you, honey." So she, uh, she's a junior in high school, [07:42.4 – 07:47.7] and this year at the beginning of the year she came home, 'cause, uh, 11th grade, you know, now they go to Starbucks and stuff. [07:47.7 – 07:51.8] And, and she walked in, said, "Oh, we went to Starbucks after school." And I said, "Oh, really? [07:51.8 – 08:01.9] Who went?" And she said, "Jennifer, so-and-so, and Lindsay, you know, and, and, uh, and, and this other Jennifer." And I went, "Oh, her." And she [08:01.9 – 08:02.6] just looks at me. [08:02.6 – 08:05.4] She's like, "For God sakes, Mom, that was sixth grade. [08:05.4 – 08:12.3] Could you let it go?" So you know, we just, we just love her. [08:12.3 – 08:13.7] We don't really know what to do with her. [08:13.7 – 08:20.5] She can't hold a resentment, and she, she works for things, but she worked, she worked last summer at a little coffee shop. [08:20.5 – 08:23.0] You know, I mean, how big is the summer between school, 10 weeks? [08:23.0 – 08:24.8] She put $500 in the bank. [08:24.8 – 08:27.2] Now what is that, you know? [08:27.2 – 08:28.7] Uh, we, we're really proud of her. [08:28.7 – 08:30.4] We hope to be like her someday. [08:30.4 – 08:35.1] Anyway, so that's where my thinking was. [08:35.1 – 08:36.1] I couldn't … [08:36.1 – 08:44.9] I mean, when Sarah was practicing with the nine-year-olds, I was seven years sober, and I was having a hard time being the mom of the 11-year-old swimming with the nine-year-olds. [08:44.9 – 08:45.4] You know what I mean? [08:45.4 – 08:47.6] Thinking that it just, I am so… [08:47.6 – 08:52.2] I, it's like my life was a spectator sport, and I was over here watching you watch me. [08:52.2 – 08:54.1] I was never, ever in the moment. [08:54.1 – 09:04.1] I was always three steps ahead and planning conversations, and you'd be talking, and I'd sort of be hearing you, but I'd be, you know, selecting from A, B, or C answer and, you know, what will this affect [09:04.1 – 09:07.1] me and that affect me, and, and I was busy. [09:07.1 – 09:12.2] I mean, by junior high I was in committees and, and pep club and band and student council and all this. [09:12.2 – 09:22.2] And, and, uh, and I heard Sean Allen say, he talked when I was pretty new, and he said he was really shy, which meant he was either hiding in a corner or he was in the middle running things, [09:22.2 – 09:24.7] and it had never occurred to me that that was shy. [09:24.7 – 09:34.7] But he said, "You know, when I'm in charge, you can't ever get close enough to see who I am, 'cause I'm, you know, running you around." And that really struck home with me, because when I was in the [09:34.7 – 09:39.9] middle of things running people around, you couldn't get close enough to me, and I always had to be around you. [09:39.9 – 09:49.9] Because if I got away for a day or two, my brain would start to tell me that you guys, if I wasn't right there in front of you, that you would start to talk to each other [09:49.9 – 09:53.2] and go, "You know, why do we hang out with her anyway? [09:53.2 – 09:55.0] You know, I, I don't even like her. [09:55.0 – 09:55.6] Do you like… [09:55.6 – 09:56.3] I don't like her. [09:56.3 – 09:58.0] I thought she was your friend." You know? [09:58.0 – 10:00.3] So I just never, I never could be… [10:00.3 – 10:02.7] I would skip whatever commitment I had to go with you. [10:02.7 – 10:06.7] My mom used to say, "Everybody's day off is Beth's day off," because I would, you know… [10:06.7 – 10:15.5] And in college, when I went to college, I, uh, I went into college with, with, uh, 97 percentile SAT scores and flunked out, you know. [10:15.5 – 10:19.7] Now I found out later everybody else was going to class, and that might have contributed to their success in college. [10:19.7 – 10:24.0] But if, you know, if Amy had a first period free, I'd go do something with her. [10:24.0 – 10:28.9] And then Taylor, I'd go with her second, second period, and with Betty third period and with Peggy fourth period. [10:28.9 – 10:34.0] And you know what I never put together is you guys were all going to class the other six, you know, six hour. [10:34.0 – 10:35.5] But I just couldn't… [10:35.5 – 10:41.7] If you asked me to go somewhere, I would never say no, because I was afraid you would never ask again, you know? [10:41.7 – 10:48.9] And I couldn't, I just couldn't bear the thought of you talking about me while I was gone, so I just was never gone, you know? [10:48.9 – 10:51.9] Now this was all pre-drinking, you know? [10:51.9 – 10:53.0] I just … [10:53.0 – 11:02.3] And so when I drank, a lot of that activity just stopped, um, I guess 'cause I didn't need it anymore, and I didn't realize it at the time, but I just, I didn't need it anymore. [11:02.3 – 11:12.4] And life slowed down, and I relaxed, and, uh, you know, I started to drink at 15, and within a year of drinking I was an a- a, a poster [11:12.4 – 11:14.0] child for adolescent treatment. [11:14.0 – 11:16.3] I was just, everything changed. [11:16.3 – 11:17.2] My friends changed. [11:17.2 – 11:18.4] My grades plunged. [11:18.4 – 11:20.1] My attitude changed. [11:20.1 – 11:21.5] My appearance changed. [11:21.5 – 11:25.2] I totaled a car with three other people in it at 16 years old. [11:25.2 – 11:32.0] Um, they didn't have adolescent treatment back then, so I just kind of skated through, you know. [11:32.0 – 11:37.4] I'm sure the only reason I graduated from high school is that I didn't drink until I was 15, so I had a bunch of credits built up. [11:37.4 – 11:38.9] 'Cause I was a good student. [11:38.9 – 11:44.7] I was blessed, blessed or cursed with a test-taking intellect, so I never really had to work hard at school. [11:44.7 – 11:51.5] I was one of those annoying people who could, you know, blow off things for three weeks and then write the paper that was due the period before it was due and turn it in. [11:51.5 – 11:54.5] So I always slid, and I never really had consequences. [11:54.5 – 11:57.8] And even when I wrecked the car, I didn't have the consequences I should have. [11:57.8 – 12:01.4] I mean, I just figured I got hurt the worst, you know, so it… [12:01.4 – 12:05.9] 'Cause I spent, I had three pins in my ankle for a year, and I spent three months on crutches. [12:05.9 – 12:07.3] I mean, it was a bad wreck. [12:07.3 – 12:11.8] Um, but I just figured, well, I got hurt the worst and I was driving, so that's how it should be. [12:11.8 – 12:14.5] And I got a bill from Butler County for the bridge I hit. [12:14.5 – 12:16.2] You know, um, that was it. [12:16.2 – 12:17.6] No DUI, no nothing. [12:17.6 – 12:21.2] Um, and really that kind of stuff happened through my life, too. [12:21.2 – 12:27.5] I was like one of these guys in the cartoon that's walking down the sidewalk, and the safes and the pianos are falling right behind them. [12:27.5 – 12:28.2] You know? [12:28.2 – 12:32.0] I had consequences when I drank, but I never had the consequences I should have had. [12:32.0 – 12:35.2] We got suspended in high school because Oxford had this… [12:35.2 – 12:45.5] I grew up in Oxford, Ohio, where, um, Miami is, Miami University, so it was a little college town, and, uh, they had this wonderful tradition called Green Beer Day the Thursday [12:45.5 – 12:46.7] closest to St. [12:46.7 – 12:52.3] Patrick's Day, and the bars would open up at five-thirty in the morning, and draft beer was green, and it was fifty cents a pitcher. [12:52.3 – 12:56.5] I mean, it just, you know, it was a wonderful, wonderful time in my life. [12:56.5 – 13:02.5] And, uh, and we all went there instead of going to school, and we got caught, and we got suspended. [13:02.5 – 13:10.2] Well, with spring break coming, they didn't wanna suspend us for a week because we would, just the way the days fell, we would've had a three-week break, and they didn't really wanna reward us like that. [13:10.2 – 13:12.8] So they suspended us for one day. [13:12.8 – 13:20.6] Um, as it's prone to do in Ohio, it snowed a foot the next day in March, and, uh, there was no school, so there's no suspension on my record. [13:20.6 – 13:24.1] You know, I mean, that's the kind of goofy stuff that happened to me all the time. [13:24.1 – 13:26.7] So I graduated from high school. [13:26.7 – 13:28.9] I went off to college at IU. [13:28.9 – 13:36.7] I was a seventeen-year-old freshman at a Big Ten school, totally unprepared, um, and just got to where I couldn't go to, I couldn't go to class. [13:36.7 – 13:46.8] And now I know that was fear, you know, because I would go in, and you know, the first day of school, there'd be a person and three chairs and a person and three chairs, and so [13:46.8 – 13:48.0] I would sit, but I never… [13:48.0 – 13:48.7] You know, I… [13:48.7 – 13:58.7] Conversation escaped me, that art of just talking to somebody, you know, because I was so obsessed with what you would think of me that I couldn't risk, you know, saying something stupid, so I'd just stand there [13:58.7 – 14:02.7] and stare at you instead and then the voices would start, you know, 'cause I would… [14:02.7 – 14:05.1] And the other thing is I never… [14:05.1 – 14:08.4] Like being Beth, just being Beth was never enough. [14:08.4 – 14:09.1] You know? [14:09.1 – 14:09.7] I, I was… [14:09.7 – 14:14.1] That's why in high school I was like Beth the student council member, Beth in the pep club. [14:14.1 – 14:15.9] I was Beth the cheerleader in high school. [14:15.9 – 14:26.1] I was, you know, I was always Beth the something, Beth, Jim and Sally's daughter, um, because if I met you and I said, you know, "Hi, my name's Beth," and you'd say, "Hi, my name's Ken," and, [14:26.1 – 14:36.9] and, and it would just be like this 'cause if I said my name's Beth, uh, you know, it's like I was waiting for you to go, "So?" [14:36.9 – 14:37.9] You know? [14:37.9 – 14:41.4] Tell me the rest of the story, and there was no more of the story. [14:41.4 – 14:42.5] I just didn't… [14:42.5 – 14:47.7] And so then, you know, of course now the voices are starting like, "Well, you've been standing here staring at him for ten seconds now. [14:47.7 – 14:48.9] You really look like an idiot. [14:48.9 – 14:49.5] You better run. [14:49.5 – 14:49.9] Turn around. [14:49.9 – 14:50.4] Don't run. [14:50.4 – 14:50.7] You'll fall. [14:50.7 – 14:52.2] You'll look really stupid, but walk away. [14:52.2 – 14:53.7] Just walk away," you know? [14:53.7 – 14:58.2] And so, and so the next day I would like try to sit by somebody else, you know? [14:58.2 – 14:59.6] And I, I, but I just couldn't… [14:59.6 – 15:02.2] After my name's Beth, there was just nothing there. [15:02.2 – 15:03.2] There was nothing there. [15:03.2 – 15:04.2] And I didn't know… [15:04.2 – 15:08.9] And, and you know, halfway through the quarter I'm walking across campus, and people are saying hi to each other and stopping and talking. [15:08.9 – 15:17.8] I'm thinking, "How do they do that?" Well, of course, you know, twenty years later I figured out they'd all been attending classes together for six weeks, and they were getting to know each other, but I just couldn't, you know? [15:17.8 – 15:19.3] So I was so alone. [15:19.3 – 15:29.4] I was just so alone, but I would've told you, you know, and it's like, it's kind of like all through those years every now and then the truth would creep in, but I could just push it back out with a beer. [15:29.4 – 15:30.0] You know? [15:30.0 – 15:30.4] It was… [15:30.4 – 15:36.4] 'Cause as soon as I had a beer in my hand I was surrounded by friends, and, uh, I flunked out of school. [15:36.4 – 15:46.0] I went back to Oxford, and I got a job in a bank because I knew that I'd, you know, disgrace my parents by dropping out of college 'cause I'm sure the whole world is watching me. [15:46.0 – 15:50.9] And, uh, and I got a job in a bank, and that just, that wasn't, they worked Monday mornings at nine o'clock. [15:50.9 – 15:52.6] I mean, that was not working out at all. [15:52.6 – 16:03.4] And, uh, and a friend of mine had a friend in Florida, and, and we were talking, and, and we just said, "Well, hey, let's go." And so we took off and, and moved to Florida in 1978, [16:03.4 – 16:13.7] and, uh, it's like I heard a guy say once, he said, "You know, they really should just put a sign right on the state line of Florida, California, and Arizona that says, 'This state doesn't work [16:13.7 – 16:15.0] either.'" You know? [16:15.0 – 16:17.3] Save us a lot of time. [16:17.3 – 16:24.5] But I went down to Florida and, and, you know, people, I've heard people over the years say they got to AA and they were home. [16:24.5 – 16:24.9] You know, they… [16:24.9 – 16:27.4] That's how I was when I got to Florida. [16:27.4 – 16:31.9] I mean, uh, maybe it was just the town I lived in, but everybody down there was running from something you know? [16:31.9 – 16:36.1] And it was like up here of course, you know, it hits eighty degrees and you can drink, right? [16:36.1 – 16:37.3] 'Cause it's summer and celebrate [16:37.4 – 16:40.0] Well, down there it was 80 at 9:00 in the morning, so… [16:40.0 – 16:48.3] And this, the whole town, I moved to a little town called Bonita Springs, and back in the '70s it was, like, two traffic lights, two Dairy Queens, and a dog track. [16:48.3 – 16:49.6] That's about all that was there. [16:49.6 – 16:58.1] And, uh, and the whole town was two and a half miles end to end, and people bought beer at this end to drink on the way to the bar on this end. [16:58.1 – 16:58.5] You know? [16:58.5 – 17:00.2] Now, those were my kind of people. [17:00.2 – 17:05.3] And I was just, I was home, and, uh, and I just fell into a job there. [17:05.3 – 17:10.4] I didn't tell my parents I was moving 'cause I didn't, you know, didn't want anybody to stop me. [17:10.4 – 17:13.5] And, uh, when I finally called them two weeks later and told them where I was- … [17:13.5 – 17:17.0] and my mom said, "Why didn't you just tell us you were moving?" You know? [17:17.0 – 17:24.0] And I said, "Well, I didn't want you to stop me." And I just hear this silence on the other end of the phone, and she goes, "Beth, you're 19. [17:24.0 – 17:27.4] We couldn't have stopped you." And I was like, "God," you know? [17:27.4 – 17:29.6] I mean, it took me till 19 to run away from home. [17:29.6 – 17:31.0] I never could just- … [17:31.0 – 17:34.1] I never could do things at an appropriate time, you know? [17:34.1 – 17:36.8] So anyway, I fell into a job down… [17:36.8 – 17:42.6] I got a job at, um, a, like a Shop & Go, like a 7-Eleven kind of a place, 'cause I'd done that up here. [17:42.6 – 17:47.7] And down there it was so transient that if you showed up three days in a row you were management material. [17:47.7 – 17:55.1] So by the time I called her I was training to be assistant manager of this store, and she just said, "You know, how do you do stuff this stupid and land on your feet? [17:55.1 – 18:05.3] Because you just always land on your feet." And I'm sure to her, you know, kind of a normal person watching, it just, it just doesn't seem fair, you know, that we just continue to do this stuff over and over. [18:05.3 – 18:08.8] Um, my drinking caught up with me down there. [18:08.8 – 18:17.5] I mean, by the end of three months I, I was pretty much not employable there, and, and, uh, I just kind of bounced around the town and, and had, you know, a lot of people that drank like me. [18:17.5 – 18:23.9] And by the end of '78 I was thinking I was gonna have to move back to Ohio, 'cause I just absolutely couldn't… [18:23.9 – 18:26.8] I, I knew it was becoming clear I couldn't take care of myself. [18:26.8 – 18:33.9] But if I had moved back, that would have violated a second principle I lived by other than, you know, it's not all right not to know. [18:33.9 – 18:38.8] My other one was never ever, ever, ever admit that you made a mistake. [18:38.8 – 18:40.0] You know? [18:40.0 – 18:45.6] It's like they, they talk a little about rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, and that would have been, "I bought this ticket, damn it. [18:45.6 – 18:46.6] We're staying," you know? [18:46.6 – 18:51.2] And, uh, and if I had moved home I would have been admitting I shouldn't have moved to Florida. [18:51.2 – 18:52.6] I can't support myself, whatever. [18:52.6 – 18:59.2] Um, and as luck would have it, I m- I met a guy who had just, you know, everything I was looking for. [18:59.2 – 19:06.6] He had a house and a car and a job, and, uh, and the fact that he was, like, 6'2" with tattoos and a motorcycle just was extra. [19:06.6 – 19:07.0] You know? [19:07.0 – 19:08.0] It just made it better. [19:08.0 – 19:10.7] And, and of course nothing's ever as it appears. [19:10.7 – 19:12.9] I mean, the house he rented with two other guys. [19:12.9 – 19:18.0] The job, he got sick like a month after I moved in and he didn't go back to work for a year, you know? [19:18.0 – 19:21.0] I was the one supporting us, so, like, so much for those motives. [19:21.0 – 19:27.0] But, uh, we ended up, we got married and, um, it was just, it was nuts, you know? [19:27.0 – 19:28.7] We were, we were married five years. [19:28.7 – 19:29.3] We ended up… [19:29.3 – 19:33.5] And, and we weren't any more responsible together than, than I was on my own. [19:33.5 – 19:40.8] We, uh, we had Robbie, and then we went down to the Keys to, just for a weekend when he was five or six months old. [19:40.8 – 19:41.7] We liked it down there. [19:41.7 – 19:42.7] We came back on Tuesday. [19:42.7 – 19:46.0] We moved on Friday, you know, with a six-month-old baby. [19:46.0 – 19:56.0] And I called my mom from the Keys and said, "Oh, by the way, we moved, you know, this week." And, and, "But I got a job," and I was training to be assistant manager at this restaurant at this oceanfront resort, you [19:56.0 – 19:57.6] know, 'cause I just fell into a job there. [19:57.6 – 20:02.5] And from there I went into night audit, and this, this place, just this little window in time… [20:02.5 – 20:05.5] I mean, I look back and it's like nobody could have run a business like that. [20:05.5 – 20:09.4] But, but we were just, everybody there was, drank. [20:09.4 – 20:11.4] It was, we had all the drug money in the Keys. [20:11.4 – 20:21.4] The, the lodge down the road had all the old money, but we were the flashy, you know, $100 bills and Tiki John's Rum Runners, and this place had seven bars and three restaurants and, and it [20:21.4 – 20:22.8] just was hopping all the time. [20:22.8 – 20:25.1] And that was a skinny year, you know? [20:25.1 – 20:25.8] So here I am. [20:25.8 – 20:28.4] I'm like, when Bill says I had arrived, I knew what he mean. [20:28.4 – 20:29.0] You know? [20:29.0 – 20:29.7] I knew what he meant. [20:29.7 – 20:31.8] I had this little golden-haired blond baby. [20:31.8 – 20:33.9] I was bikini size, you know? [20:33.9 – 20:34.8] I had a great job. [20:34.8 – 20:36.7] I was the night auditor. [20:36.7 – 20:43.6] I didn't even know what a night auditor did when I applied for the job, but, but I figured if this other girl that had been there could do it, I certainly could. [20:43.6 – 20:47.2] And I told them, "Oh, the baby has to come to work with me, you know, but you have cribs. [20:47.2 – 20:48.6] That should be okay," and they hired me. [20:48.6 – 20:50.3] I still can't believe it. [20:50.3 – 21:00.4] And they, you know, like I said, I didn't know what a night auditor did, and when I got there, first they told me how much they were gonna pay me, which was almost half again as much as I was making in the restaurant, and then they handed me the keys to all [21:00.4 – 21:01.3] seven bars. [21:01.3 – 21:02.5] You know? [21:02.5 – 21:05.5] And it's like, so my job was ringing out all the bars every night. [21:05.5 – 21:08.2] And so I'd go to ring out the tiki bar and have a drink with them. [21:08.2 – 21:10.2] And I'd go ring out the Quarter Deck and have a drink with them. [21:10.2 – 21:14.7] Then we'd go ring out the Horizon and just lock the elevators and do drugs on the bar up there. [21:14.7 – 21:15.2] You know? [21:15.2 – 21:16.2] It, it was a wonderful… [21:16.2 – 21:17.1] And they paid me. [21:17.1 – 21:18.1] You know? [21:18.1 – 21:22.5] They paid me too, and it was just a wonderful, wonderful place to work. [21:22.5 – 21:32.6] Um, but my drinking caught up with me there, and I ended up, you know, um, getting fired because I went to happy hour at 5:00 and I was still there at 11:00 when I was supposed to be clocking in. [21:32.6 – 21:34.7] So they were unhappy with me. [21:34.7 – 21:40.5] And, um, and that was when I knew, I kind of intuitively knew I wasn't gonna find another job quite like that. [21:40.5 – 21:46.9] That if I got another night audit job I would probably have to, like, not drink all night and, you know, really toe the line. [21:46.9 – 21:52.8] So I went to my, the first meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous where I had ever said I was an alcoholic. [21:52.8 – 21:59.7] I went to the Key Largo, Tuesday night Key Largo meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I stood up and I said, you know, "My name's Beth. [21:59.7 – 22:03.7] I'm an alcoholic." And, uh, and that was the first time I'd ever said that. [22:03.7 – 22:07.6] I'd been to some meetings with my dad, you know, but when they would go around the room I'd say, "My name's Beth. [22:07.6 – 22:10.0] I'm with him." Um- … [22:10.0 – 22:13.8] 'cause, you know, I don't wanna say that A word, 'cause that means here the book, go to meeting. [22:13.8 – 22:17.6] And, um, and I just never, you know, I, I went through years. [22:17.6 – 22:19.3] Even in high school I was already… [22:19.3 – 22:24.8] You know, we had a, um, it wasn't like living in a big city where there were drugs everywhere. [22:24.8 – 22:27.4] In Oxford we kind of had a drug of the week flow through, you know? [22:27.4 – 22:31.8] And, and so it was just I, I did a lot of drugs 'cause they were available. [22:31.8 – 22:40.3] Um, but what I have come to realize as I look back is, uh, I mean, I suffer from alcoholism, and the drugs were there and, and hand them to me, I'll do them. [22:40.3 – 22:44.5] But as they began to interfere with my drinking, they began to, they had to go. [22:44.5 – 22:45.3] They had to go. [22:45.3 – 22:45.9] You know? [22:45.9 – 22:53.1] I, um- I mean, I never did like Quaaludes and stuff like that because all that meant was I would black out at 8:00 o'clock instead of midnight. [22:53.1 – 22:53.5] You know? [22:53.5 – 22:56.8] I would still drink till 2:00, but I would just not be present for more of it. [22:56.8 – 23:01.1] And, uh, and like smoking pot after a while, if… [23:01.1 – 23:01.8] I just… [23:01.8 – 23:02.2] It made me… [23:02.2 – 23:03.7] I was paralyzed. [23:03.7 – 23:10.1] If I drank two beers and then smoked a joint, I couldn't move till the pot wore off, and, you know, you can't drink if you can't move, so I quit smoking pot. [23:10.1 – 23:14.4] And, um, like cocaine was kind of my I'm not drinking drug. [23:14.4 – 23:14.9] You know? [23:14.9 – 23:18.6] Like after I got fired, I managed to get my job back because they hated… [23:18.6 – 23:21.1] You know, once again, the piano's falling behind me. [23:21.1 – 23:22.7] They hated the woman who replaced me. [23:22.7 – 23:25.9] She'd been the weekend auditor, so when I came back and said, "I know I have a problem. [23:25.9 – 23:33.5] I'm going to AA," they were just like, "Praise God." Gave me my job back and, and, uh, so I had no real consequences there, but I didn't drink for eight months. [23:33.5 – 23:44.3] Well, we had, we had this little side business going, you know, because it was really expensive to live in the Keys and, um, you know, I thought of it as kind of a part-time job and entrepreneurship [23:44.3 – 23:47.8] and, and it turned out that Monroe County thought of it as trafficking cocaine. [23:47.8 – 23:53.8] And, um, that was the second time I got fired from that job, when we got arrested for that. [23:53.8 – 24:00.3] Um, but, you know, so it, it wasn't a big challenge to not drink with free cocaine, I guess is what I'm saying. [24:00.3 – 24:00.6] You know? [24:00.6 – 24:04.5] 'Cause it was, it was there and, uh, and nothing really tasted good. [24:04.5 – 24:05.1] You know? [24:05.1 – 24:06.2] D- so I would just… [24:06.2 – 24:15.8] It was, it was easier to not drink because I don't know, for me, if you didn't get that beer down the second you opened it, it was already too warm, and you had to pour it out, and it just pained me to pour out beer, so… [24:15.8 – 24:18.7] Um, but I just, you know… [24:18.7 – 24:21.5] So that had to go just at risk of going to prison. [24:21.5 – 24:27.5] Um, and, uh, the, the one I still every now and then I go, "Now, what was the problem with this one? [24:27.5 – 24:29.3] With the diet pill?" You know? [24:29.3 – 24:34.8] 'Cause I'm thinking, "Okay, with a good amphetamine you could drink for days." You know? [24:34.8 – 24:37.8] You're skinny and my house is clean. [24:37.8 – 24:38.7] You know? [24:38.7 – 24:46.2] So it's like those, those were the good pills, but, but even by the time I was 25 I couldn't stand myself after two days of them. [24:46.2 – 24:51.1] So gradually, you know, I mean, I had little blips of drug use, but it was… [24:51.1 – 24:53.1] They had to go because they interfered with my… [24:53.1 – 24:58.2] Everything, everything that interfered with my drinking eventually had to go. [24:58.2 – 24:59.1] That included work. [24:59.1 – 25:00.6] That included my children. [25:00.6 – 25:02.0] That was everything. [25:02.0 – 25:03.8] It all had to go because… [25:03.8 – 25:05.7] And Scott talked about it last night. [25:05.7 – 25:13.1] If you are between me and a drink, you are either invisible or you are flattened on my way to the drink. [25:13.1 – 25:15.2] And, um, I ended up… [25:15.2 – 25:17.2] Uh, Kurt and I had Sarah. [25:17.2 – 25:19.1] I filed for divorce a couple months later. [25:19.1 – 25:20.2] I moved back to Ohio. [25:20.2 – 25:27.6] By this time, my mom had relocated in Cincinnati in '84, and I moved up here, and I went to AA again, you know, because I thought… [25:27.6 – 25:29.5] By now I kind of suspected. [25:29.5 – 25:36.5] You know, I didn't really wanna not drink, but I was kind of resigned to the fact that I needed AA, and, uh, and so I, I went to an AA meeting. [25:36.5 – 25:40.3] And, and I doubt I stood up and said I was new because I don't wanna be new. [25:40.3 – 25:41.8] It's not okay not to know. [25:41.8 – 25:42.5] You know? [25:42.5 – 25:43.9] I wanna start two years sober. [25:43.9 – 25:49.5] So I would just kind of hang out and look cool, and then I would go to the bar because when I go to the bar I know who I need to know. [25:49.5 – 25:52.6] By the end of the night, I know who can drink all night and not fall down. [25:52.6 – 25:56.7] I know who shoots pool as good as me, and I know who knows where the party is later. [25:56.7 – 25:57.3] You know? [25:57.3 – 25:57.9] So it doesn't matter. [25:57.9 – 26:00.1] I could walk into a bar alone anytime. [26:00.1 – 26:01.7] Actually, I preferred going in alone. [26:01.7 – 26:02.5] I never did… [26:02.5 – 26:12.0] You know when you come into AA and you're a woman and, and one of the first helpful things they tell you is like, "Hang with the women, honey," and it's like, I mean, I didn't even drink with women. [26:12.0 – 26:12.5] You know? [26:12.5 – 26:16.8] That is like hearing the gates of hell just slam shut for somebody like me. [26:16.8 – 26:23.3] Hang with the w- It's bad enough I'm in AA and, you know, now you're telling me hang out with the women. [26:23.3 – 26:24.5] Thanks so much. [26:24.5 – 26:26.2] Um, 'cause I didn't. [26:26.2 – 26:27.5] I didn't drink with girls. [26:27.5 – 26:27.8] You know? [26:27.8 – 26:31.7] They were, they were inconsequential to me, or they were competition, bottom line. [26:31.7 – 26:36.3] Or every now and then there was one who looked me in the eyes and I knew she could see right through me. [26:36.3 – 26:36.9] You know? [26:36.9 – 26:39.7] And so you have to stay away from those people 'cause they just know that. [26:39.7 – 26:43.1] You know, every now and then you run into somebody who just, you know they know. [26:43.1 – 26:48.2] And, uh, and so I, I was comfortable walking into a bar by myself. [26:48.2 – 26:55.0] Plus, you never know when you're gonna fall in love, you know, and if you've come with your girlfriend, you know, then it's hard to leave with him. [26:55.0 – 26:56.0] So I just… [26:56.0 – 26:57.8] I maybe would meet you at the bar, but… [26:57.8 – 27:07.8] And, and most of the w- You know, women to me, they'd, they like fell down and threw up, or they'd giggle, you know, or, or, uh, or it was they, they were hitting on the guy I was looking at, [27:07.8 – 27:10.3] or, or they were mad 'cause I was screwing their husband. [27:10.3 – 27:11.3] And, and they just… [27:11.3 – 27:13.2] You know, it just wasn't a good thing for me. [27:13.2 – 27:20.4] So I just never, you know, I h- I did the bar thing, and when I tried AA in '84, I just within two weeks I was at the bar 'cause I knew… [27:20.4 – 27:22.5] Now, I was gonna try a different kind of bar. [27:22.5 – 27:30.9] You know, I figured bikers probably were my problem really, and my mom lived out in Montgomery, which was a kind of, you know, upper yuppie kind of a place. [27:30.9 – 27:33.9] So I went to this bar down the street from her house or… [27:33.9 – 27:38.5] And, uh, and I walked in, and I mean, it's all, you know, Oxford shirts and whatever, and I'm… [27:38.5 – 27:45.7] Just go get a drink and go sit down to play video games, and there's one guy in the whole bar with a Harley shirt on, and he sends me a drink. [27:45.7 – 27:47.9] And I'm thinking, "How does he know?" You know? [27:47.9 – 27:54.7] It's like, "Do I just have a sign on my forehead or something?" You know, in, in retrospect, it might have been the boots and the leather jacket that tipped them off. [27:54.7 – 27:55.2] I don't know. [27:55.2 – 28:01.9] But, uh, it didn't take me long to find people that drank like I drank, you know, around here. [28:01.9 – 28:08.8] And by March of '85, I had lost custody of my children, um, because I just couldn't, I just couldn't do it. [28:08.8 – 28:11.0] It was too hard being that single mom thing. [28:11.0 – 28:11.3] You know? [28:11.3 – 28:13.5] And it, it amazes me the power of delusion. [28:13.5 – 28:20.3] You know, the Big Book talks about delusion, not denial, you know, 'cause I have to believe these lies I'm telling myself. [28:20.3 – 28:21.5] You know, I have to believe them. [28:21.5 – 28:31.5] And, um, and I used to, you know, periodically by now I'm get- going to treatment to stay out of jail or whatever and, uh, I would hear people say they'd just pace the floor because they didn't [28:31.5 – 28:32.1] have a drink. [28:32.1 – 28:35.2] And I'd think, "God, that's awful." You know? [28:35.2 – 28:42.1] And, and it wasn't until I got sober that I remembered that panic of putting the kids to bed and realizing there's two beers in the house. [28:42.1 – 28:42.5] You know? [28:42.5 – 28:44.1] I mean, I'd rather have none than two. [28:44.1 – 28:47.3] Um, and, and thinking I had a second floor apartment. [28:47.3 – 28:50.1] You know, it's winter in Ohio, so do I… [28:50.1 – 28:54.9] You know, I got two kids- What do I– do I put the baby in the cold car while I go get the two-year-old? [28:54.9 – 28:58.8] 'Cause I can't leave the two-year-old in a running car while I go get the baby, you know? [28:58.8 – 29:04.4] And then, and so now d-d– when I get to the store, do I leave them in the car while I get the beer? [29:04.4 – 29:05.7] Do I take them in? [29:05.7 – 29:06.7] Then I can't carry the beer. [29:06.7 – 29:07.5] I have two kids. [29:07.5 – 29:09.0] I mean, it was hard work. [29:09.0 – 29:12.0] I couldn't ever get them to daycare, you know? [29:12.0 – 29:14.8] Because that involved getting up early. [29:14.8 – 29:18.9] But by ten o'clock, I would hate myself 'cause now I had them for the day. [29:18.9 – 29:21.4] And I just couldn't, you know, I couldn't do it. [29:21.4 – 29:23.9] I mean, and I never set out to be a bad mom, you know? [29:23.9 – 29:27.6] I mean, I never, I never set out to be a mom like that. [29:27.6 – 29:29.6] But my kids, their room was filthy. [29:29.6 – 29:31.6] You know, Sarah's bed was filthy. [29:31.6 – 29:36.6] Her, her, um, crib blanket would be wet in the morning, and I would think, "Oh, I gotta change this," you know? [29:36.6 – 29:38.7] But by noon, I'd be drinking, you know? [29:38.7 – 29:42.7] And once I drink, the drink takes me 'cause I have alcoholism, you know? [29:42.7 – 29:47.5] And there's a physical allergy that says once I take a drink, the drink takes a drink. [29:47.5 – 29:49.7] You know, once I start drinking, it's on. [29:49.7 – 29:59.7] And, uh, and so I would be drinking, and by six or seven o'clock, I go to put her to bed and then see the crib and go, "Oh yeah." And, and I would think, "But, you know, God knows I can't take thirty seconds then to do it." So I would lay a [29:59.7 – 30:03.9] blanket down on top and go, "Tomorrow, I will change the bed." And it was always with the kids. [30:03.9 – 30:04.4] It was tomorrow. [30:04.4 – 30:05.9] Tomorrow, we will go to the zoo. [30:05.9 – 30:07.9] You know, tomorrow, we will play. [30:07.9 – 30:08.3] Tomorrow… [30:08.3 – 30:10.4] But I just couldn't, I couldn't do it. [30:10.4 – 30:12.0] I couldn't color with them, you know? [30:12.0 – 30:21.1] The message my kids got from me, I, um, just luckily, you know, um, didn't, didn't physically or really verbally abuse them, but I ignored them. [30:21.1 – 30:23.2] You know, they were invisible in my house. [30:23.2 – 30:25.4] Um, and God, what a horrible thing to do to a kid. [30:25.4 – 30:28.5] You know, uh, the message my kids got from me was, "Yes, I love you. [30:28.5 – 30:29.7] Go away." You know? [30:29.7 – 30:30.4] "Yes, I love you. [30:30.4 – 30:32.5] Get away from me." "Of course, I love you. [30:32.5 – 30:39.6] Go play with your sister." Or I would go to somebody's house that, uh, that mom drank too, you know, so the kids could play and we could drink. [30:39.6 – 30:45.0] 'Cause I just could– I had nothing to give them, and I had nothing to give them when I first got sober, you know? [30:45.0 – 30:48.3] I just, I was empty, but I didn't know what that, what the problem was. [30:48.3 – 30:51.6] So they were removed from my custody in nineteen eighty-five. [30:51.6 – 30:56.9] I went to treatment to stay out of jail and, um, and then I was gonna go be sober with my dad. [30:56.9 – 30:59.8] And, uh, and my dad died while I was in treatment. [30:59.8 – 31:02.2] So that was, like, another big setback, you know? [31:02.2 – 31:05.7] 'Cause again, I, I wa– I guess, you know, looking back, I wasn't ready to go be Beth. [31:05.7 – 31:08.6] I was gonna go be Jim Curby's daughter at AA. [31:08.6 – 31:14.4] And, um, he died, and I was just devastated. [31:14.4 – 31:18.5] So I, I– when I got out, I would kinda gravitate to guys that knew him, you know? [31:18.5 – 31:24.2] But I, uh, the, the other thing that happened was he and mom were divorced, and I'm an only child, so there was insurance money. [31:24.2 – 31:27.1] And, uh, it really… [31:27.1 – 31:31.9] I look at it now and ten thousand more dollars and somebody else would be standing here. [31:31.9 – 31:36.5] You know, it was almost enough to kill me, not quite, just enough to make me really, really tired. [31:36.5 – 31:42.0] And, and so what happened because of that is I got to drink the way I wanted to drink for two or three years. [31:42.0 – 31:52.0] I'm sure I got here sooner because I didn't really have– The kids were at my mom's, and I would tell people when I went through treatment, "Well, of course, I want my kids back." And I was the one, you know, I'm a quick study. [31:52.0 – 31:52.8] I'm a test taker. [31:52.8 – 31:54.8] So I was the one they would come get. [31:54.8 – 32:04.8] The counselors would come get when the women didn't wanna leave their children for six weeks to go through treatment, and I could give them that pep talk about, "Oh, we gotta be s-better leaving for six weeks now than six years later, and we gotta be [32:04.8 – 32:06.1] sober moms," and all that. [32:06.1 – 32:10.6] But I mean, inside, I knew I was gonna drink 'cause I wasn't done yet, you know? [32:10.6 – 32:12.4] I just– And I knew AA's there. [32:12.4 – 32:16.8] Hell, I'd known AA was there since I was seven years old, so I can always go to AA when it's time. [32:16.8 – 32:25.6] Um, I didn't know that I didn't have that power to say it's time, you know? [32:25.6 – 32:31.3] I didn't know that I might not be able to go, "Okay, I've had enough," if I was drinking. [32:31.3 – 32:40.0] That once I started to drink, I didn't have that power to say, "I wanna quit now." Um, that was just the grace of God that I surrendered between drunks. [32:40.0 – 32:46.0] I had a friend who, who got sober right after I did, and he would get about thirty days and drink, and thirty days and drink. [32:46.0 – 32:55.8] And, uh, when I was about seven months sober, he drank, you know, again, and he stood in the hallway at Oak Street with me and said, "Maybe it's not bad enough yet, Beth." And I knew what he meant. [32:55.8 – 32:57.8] I mean, I'd said that a hundred times. [32:57.8 – 33:04.1] "Well, it's not bad enough yet." And within a month, he tried to kill himself, took an overdose of drugs, and he didn't die. [33:04.1 – 33:06.5] Uh, he had a broken G stroke. [33:06.5 – 33:12.2] He was thirty-nine years old, and he was paralyzed, couldn't talk, couldn't write, but his brain worked, you know? [33:12.2 – 33:14.6] And I always kinda intuitively knew that's [33:14.7 – 33:16.5] would happen to me if I tried to kill myself. [33:16.5 – 33:17.7] I knew I would live. [33:17.7 – 33:23.4] Um, that, that's what kept me from suicide at times, is I knew I'd live and look bad. [33:23.4 – 33:24.1] You know? [33:24.1 – 33:26.8] And then, and then it's harder to try a second time. [33:26.8 – 33:29.4] You know, once you've done it the first time, they kind of watch you a little closer. [33:29.4 – 33:34.1] So, and I didn't wanna be one of those, you know, sad cry for help people, you know? [33:34.1 – 33:35.9] 'Cause God knows I wouldn't ask for help. [33:35.9 – 33:38.8] So anyways, I just, you know, my dad died. [33:38.8 – 33:43.0] I got all this money, and I got to drink like I wanted to for a couple of years, and I was tired. [33:43.0 – 33:45.3] By the end of 1987, I was tired. [33:45.3 – 33:55.7] And, um, one night, I guess ear- 1987, early 1988, I remember just thinking, "I cannot go on like this." I mean, I had gone from my apartment by, by the end of '87, [33:55.7 – 33:57.8] I was living in a friend's attic apartment. [33:57.8 – 34:00.1] I, uh, I had moved in there in August. [34:00.1 – 34:01.3] I hadn't unpacked yet. [34:01.3 – 34:07.9] You know, it was just, there was just a path from the couch to the TV to the bed, and my kids would come over on the weekends. [34:07.9 – 34:14.9] And I can just, I can still remember sitting there, you know, we had a space heater 'cause it was cold up there, huddled under a blanket on the couch. [34:14.9 – 34:20.8] I had my bottle of Wild Irish Rose, sitting there watching Nutcracker on Ice on HBO and saying, "Isn't it beautiful? [34:20.8 – 34:22.3] It's Christmas," and thinking… [34:22.3 – 34:26.4] You know, just in the back of my mind, it's like this little, something's wrong with this picture. [34:26.4 – 34:26.9] You know? [34:26.9 – 34:29.1] I mean, there was no Christmas in my apartment. [34:29.1 – 34:34.8] And, and meanwhile, you know, I knew, I would tell people I wanted my kids back, but I, I knew they were better off at Mom's. [34:34.8 – 34:36.3] I knew I couldn't take care of them. [34:36.3 – 34:37.3] It was too hard. [34:37.3 – 34:38.6] I mean, it was just too hard. [34:38.6 – 34:43.9] And at my mom's house, they got read to, and they got baths, and they got fed. [34:43.9 – 34:45.8] You know, she read to them every night. [34:45.8 – 34:49.4] They had clean clothes for school, and they got to school on time. [34:49.4 – 34:53.9] And, uh, and I don't know if I can ever repay her for that 'cause it's not like she took them. [34:53.9 – 35:01.5] I mean, Hamilton County took them, and if she had not said she would keep them, Hamilton County would've said, "Never mind, Beth, you take them back." You know? [35:01.5 – 35:03.5] I mean, they would've been out in the foster care system. [35:03.5 – 35:05.7] So, I mean, I owe her a huge debt. [35:05.7 – 35:15.6] And, and, uh, having been through a little bit now of watching, you know, somebody I love try to destroy themselves a few times, uh, I can't imagine what she went through watching that. [35:15.6 – 35:18.5] Um, I just can't imagine. [35:18.5 – 35:25.1] And, uh, so it's, it's the end of '87, and, and one night I'm just thinking, "I cannot go on like this. [35:25.1 – 35:28.8] You know, I just can't, I can't do it," and I was on my knees praying, "Just God help me. [35:28.8 – 35:32.0] Please, God help me." Well, you know, He hears those prayers. [35:32.0 – 35:38.8] And I had had, when I went to my first AA meeting back in '82 in Key Largo, my dad sent me a big book. [35:38.8 – 35:39.5] You know? [35:39.5 – 35:49.5] Uh, actually, he sent me a bo- I called him and told him I went to an AA meeting, and he sent me a box, and it had a big book, and a 12 and 12, and an Each Day a New Beginning, and a 24-hour day book, and a One Day at [35:49.5 – 35:51.1] a Time, and a tape of his lead. [35:51.1 – 35:54.7] And, you know, it's like if they'd had T-shirts back then, he probably would've thrown a T-shirt in there. [35:54.7 – 35:57.0] I don't know how long he'd been keeping the box. [35:57.0 – 36:06.4] You know, just thinking, "Maybe someday I'll get to mail it," but he sent it down and, and that night when I was saying, "God, please help me, I can't go on like this," I remembered that I had this big book my dad sent me. [36:06.4 – 36:08.7] All those years I kept track of it. [36:08.7 – 36:11.9] I always tell new people, "Get a hardcover book." You know? [36:11.9 – 36:16.2] It's something I, you just can't throw away a hardcover book . [36:16.2 – 36:23.5] You know, paperbacks you can wing out the window, but there's something about, about a hardcover that just makes it harder to throw away, and I still have this book my dad sent me. [36:23.5 – 36:30.9] And I read Bill's story, which I'd read 100 times, you know, because, I mean, you go through treatment, and they tell you, "This is the text for living. [36:30.9 – 36:35.1] The instructions are in here." Well, I would start on page one, Bill's story. [36:35.1 – 36:38.0] You know, because who reads the Roman numeral stuff? [36:38.0 – 36:43.1] And Bill's story, you know, I'd look and it'd be like, "Where's the directions?" You know, this is some old guy… [36:43.1 – 36:44.1] I just never got it. [36:44.1 – 36:50.5] And that night I read his story, and it made sense to me for the first time, and I slept that night, and I slept good. [36:50.5 – 36:51.3] You know, I did. [36:51.3 – 36:54.7] I just, peacefully, I slept with my big book like it was a teddy bear. [36:54.7 – 36:58.1] And I woke up the next morning, and I really, I didn't wanna drink. [36:58.1 – 37:04.8] And I had been through that a few other times, you know, um, because I think God answers all the prayers. [37:04.8 – 37:05.4] You know? [37:05.4 – 37:06.8] But, but the difference was… [37:06.8 – 37:09.5] Well, there was no difference that time. [37:09.5 – 37:12.6] Uh, what happened is I didn't follow that up with any action. [37:12.6 – 37:13.0] You know? [37:13.0 – 37:16.3] I mean, He, He, He relieved it, but I didn't go to a meeting. [37:16.3 – 37:17.5] I didn't call anybody. [37:17.5 – 37:23.1] You know, I just, I just sat around and, and by noon the voices were saying, "Oh, you know you're gonna drink. [37:23.1 – 37:24.7] I mean, you know you're gonna drink. [37:24.7 – 37:26.3] You may as well just go ahead. [37:26.3 – 37:28.6] Go, go ahead and, you know, you know you're going to. [37:28.6 – 37:31.4] Get it over with." So I ended up drinking again. [37:31.4 – 37:31.8] You know? [37:31.8 – 37:36.9] But again, at hindsight, I can look back on my life and see two or three different times where I really didn't wanna drink. [37:36.9 – 37:37.2] You know? [37:37.2 – 37:44.0] Um, one time when I got out of treatment, I bought a bottle of wine 'cause it was just habit, but I drove around with it in my car for three days. [37:44.0 – 37:46.8] You know, I'd think about drinking it, and I just really didn't want it. [37:46.8 – 37:49.3] And then one day it was kind of like, "Oh, you know you're going to. [37:49.3 – 37:52.9] Go ahead and drink it." And once I was through this much of the bottle, then it was on. [37:52.9 – 37:55.9] You know, then it was on again because the, the alcohol took over. [37:55.9 – 38:01.1] The allergy had been brought to life again and, uh, you know, it was just on. [38:01.1 – 38:08.0] But I just, you know, I, I always try to tell new people, a lot of times you'll hear people talking about having that moment of clarity. [38:08.0 – 38:11.1] You know, that moment of clarity when you see the truth and you know. [38:11.1 – 38:16.1] And, uh, you know, looking back, I think we get more than one. [38:16.1 – 38:16.5] You know? [38:16.5 – 38:24.6] So if you're sitting here thinking, "You know, I had mine last year, so I'm probably screwed 'cause I knew again," uh, you know, God answers all those prayers. [38:24.6 – 38:30.8] Um, and I, and I had more than one time where I really knew the truth, but I never followed it up with any action. [38:30.8 – 38:38.6] And, um, and what happened on June 26th, 1988, is, uh, is I followed it up with some action that time. [38:38.6 – 38:40.3] I didn't even know I was surrendered. [38:40.3 – 38:49.9] You know, I, I had gone off to Florida because, um, nobody was talking to me up here, and I knew they'd all been sitting down there for four years going, "God, I really miss Beth. [38:49.9 – 38:56.1] I wish she'd come back." You know, and, and I went down there and, and, um, ended up running out of money. [38:56.1 – 38:57.5] Well, mom ran out of money. [38:57.5 – 38:58.7] I took her credit card. [38:58.7 – 39:07.6] And, uh, and so I called her and asked if I could have a plane ticket home 'cause I wanted to come home, and I was sitting in the Fort Myers Airport on June 26th, 1988. [39:07.6 – 39:11.3] And I'm, I'm looking around, and I just had one of those hangovers. [39:11.3 – 39:13.1] You know, just, just one of those. [39:13.1 – 39:23.2] And, uh, and I didn't even have a dollar, and I felt so bad, and I knew if I went and sat in the bar 'Cause if I'd had enough for one beer, I could've [39:23.2 – 39:28.4] gone and sat in the bar until somebody bought me a second beer, and then it would've been on again, you know? [39:28.4 – 39:36.7] But I didn't have enough for that first drink, and I knew if I went and sat in the bar, they would say, it would be so obvious what I was doing, and they would ask me to leave. [39:36.7 – 39:41.2] And, and even in my, you know, hungover condition, I just couldn't bear that kind of humiliation. [39:41.2 – 39:48.6] And then I thought about, you know, there's a lot of senior citizens down there, so I thought, "Well, I'll just, you know, steal some old lady's purse," you know? [39:48.6 – 39:51.3] And, and, and I have– but it was one of those hangovers. [39:51.3 – 40:00.2] And I knew I'd pick on the old lady that was 70 and still doing aerobics, and she'd, she'd run me down and take her purse back and beat the crap out of me, so. [40:00.2 – 40:02.8] And I don't like to look bad in public, so. [40:02.8 – 40:05.3] So I called Mommy. [40:05.3 – 40:15.4] And, um, and she pretty much told me later, "The only reason we even flew you home was we were afraid we'd never see you again." And she picked me up, and, uh, and that was [40:15.4 – 40:20.7] June 26th, 1988, and she dropped me off at the local detox, 'cause by now I had no insurance or anything else. [40:20.7 – 40:25.9] And she just, she stood outside and said, "I don't care if you go in or not, but you're not coming home with me. [40:25.9 – 40:26.8] You know, I am done. [40:26.8 – 40:35.4] This is the last stop." And I went in, and, uh, and the next day I'm laying there thinking, and I mean, I had, my car was impounded. [40:35.4 – 40:36.7] I had charges pending. [40:36.7 – 40:38.2] I wasn't even real sure what they were. [40:38.2 – 40:40.5] I didn't think I had a place to live. [40:40.5 – 40:43.6] I knew I didn't have a job, but this stuff was not new. [40:43.6 – 40:45.6] You know, I mean, I've done all that before. [40:45.6 – 40:48.2] But the difference this time was I had no plan B. [40:48.2 – 40:52.9] Every single thing I could come up with, "Well, you could call Kathy." No, you can't. [40:52.9 – 40:54.4] You know, "Well, you could work here." No. [40:54.4 – 40:59.1] You know, every single plan B I had, had already tried and failed. [40:59.1 – 41:01.8] So again, it's like Scott said last night, I was out of plans. [41:01.8 – 41:03.3] I was just out. [41:03.3 – 41:08.5] I did not have one single better idea on how to run my life. [41:08.5 – 41:16.2] Um, and I had to face the fact that whatever the people in AA were doing, it was working, and my way was not. [41:16.2 – 41:23.6] And the other thing that happened laying there was I was 29 and a half when I got sober, and, uh, I had really never thought I'd live to be 30. [41:23.6 – 41:27.8] I di- I just didn't think– I was surprised when I woke up on my 21st birthday. [41:27.8 – 41:28.4] I really was. [41:28.4 – 41:30.7] I just, I mean, I rode motorcycles. [41:30.7 – 41:33.8] You know, I bartended places where people shot guns at each other. [41:33.8 – 41:35.9] I d- I drove drunk a lot. [41:35.9 – 41:37.2] Chuck and I were talking this morning. [41:37.2 – 41:40.0] I don't think three DUIs in 14 years is bad at all. [41:40.0 – 41:44.4] Uh, considering the amount of times I drove drunk, it should've been 300. [41:44.4 – 41:47.5] Um, I just shouldn't have been alive. [41:47.5 – 41:55.0] And here I was, 29 and a half years old, laying in that bed in detox, and I realized I had no plans for being 30, you know? [41:55.0 – 41:58.1] I had no plan on, 'cause I'd always thought, "Oh, I'll go back to college someday. [41:58.1 – 41:58.8] I'll go work. [41:58.8 – 42:04.1] I'll do this." But I was farther away from all of that at 29 than I had been at 15, you know? [42:04.1 – 42:12.5] And, and I just couldn't– And I realized that I wasn't gonna die, and that scared me to death, you know? [42:12.5 – 42:21.0] Now, Chuck talks, when he talks, um, the first time I ever heard him talk, he said he hit a place where he knew if he took one more drink, he was gonna die, you know? [42:21.0 – 42:22.2] And that's why he came in. [42:22.2 – 42:29.7] Um, I knew I was gonna– It's like this voice came down and just went, "People like you don't die, Deb," you know? [42:29.7 – 42:39.7] And, uh, I couldn't– I knew, I knew I would be 70 years old whether I drank or not, and the thought of [42:39.7 – 42:44.6] another 40 or 50 years of this crap just scared me to death. [42:44.6 – 42:49.3] And I knew no matter how bad it was, that it could get worse, you know? [42:49.3 – 42:55.2] And, uh, and, and I surrendered to Alcoholics Anonymous, and I didn't even know I was surrendered. [42:55.2 – 42:55.9] I really didn't. [42:55.9 – 42:57.6] I just showed up the first day. [42:57.6 – 43:03.4] And, uh, uh, I almost didn't go when I got out of detox, 'cause, hey, I'd been going to meetings five days, you know? [43:03.4 – 43:07.2] Um, and which is another thing I used to do, getting out of treatment. [43:07.2 – 43:08.1] I'd been going for a month. [43:08.1 – 43:09.5] I could take a day off, you know? [43:09.5 – 43:15.2] But I just, this voice said, "If you don't go now, you're never gonna go." And I got on a bus, 'cause my car was impounded. [43:15.2 – 43:19.0] I got in a hotel room, because my apartment was, was shot. [43:19.0 – 43:23.1] And, uh, I just couldn't– I didn't have a better idea. [43:23.1 – 43:28.2] And I started going to Oak Street, and I started going every day, and I just started to show up. [43:28.2 – 43:31.7] Um, and that first night, I stood up, and I said I was new. [43:31.7 – 43:35.7] And there was a girl there who I had known in '84, and she was four years sober now. [43:35.7 – 43:37.3] So I knew her way worked. [43:37.3 – 43:41.9] And the second night, I stood up and said I was new, 'cause I hadn't been to Saturday Oaks yet. [43:41.9 – 43:52.4] And I was sitting, you know, I still kind of looked, trying to look sort of cool, so I didn't– I sat in, in, uh, I always call it the new guy chair at Oak Street, because it's, um, it's [43:52.4 – 43:53.9] against the wall in the second row. [43:53.9 – 43:56.1] 'Cause, you know, if you sit in the back, we know you're new. [43:56.1 – 43:59.2] But if you sit in front, you might have to actually talk to somebody. [43:59.2 – 44:02.3] So I sat in the second row, so I could just kind of look cool like I'd been here. [44:02.3 – 44:06.1] And it was time to say the Lord's Prayer, and there's no hand to hold, you know? [44:06.1 – 44:11.8] I'm at this wall, and I just, I just remember thinking, "I am never gonna fit in here either," you know? [44:11.8 – 44:18.8] And I just hung my head pitifully and went to say the prayer, and somebody in front of me turned around and took my hand, and I couldn't believe it. [44:18.8 – 44:19.7] I just cried. [44:19.7 – 44:24.8] I just started to cry, that somebody would take a minute to just be sure everybody had a hand to hold. [44:24.8 – 44:27.1] And, uh, and that's why I went back the next day. [44:27.1 – 44:28.0] You know? [44:28.0 – 44:30.3] That's, that's 12-step work too. [44:30.3 – 44:33.7] You know, sometimes we get the idea 12-step work is sponsoring 90 people. [44:33.7 – 44:37.8] 12-step work is being sure the guy behind you has a hand to hold, you know? [44:37.8 – 44:43.3] 12-step work is remembering a new person's name, so the next time they come in, you can say, "Hi, Judy. [44:43.3 – 44:46.1] How are you?" God, I just wanted people to know my name. [44:46.1 – 44:48.3] I just wanted you to know who I was. [44:48.3 – 44:51.2] I didn't want you to talk about me, but I wanted you to know who I was. [44:51.2 – 44:57.3] And, uh, and, you know, that stuff is so important to just, just remember people's names. [44:57.3 – 45:00.3] Just be glad to read them by name and say hi, you know? [45:00.3 – 45:02.6] Um, I kept coming back. [45:02.6 – 45:10.8] Um, I was there a week, and there was a, a guy– They passed an extra basket at Oak Street, because a man's nine-year-old daughter had been killed by a drunk driver. [45:10.8 – 45:15.2] And, uh, so they passed a basket for flowers, and that was on a Friday night. [45:15.2 – 45:21.6] I was a week out of detox, and the next Tuesday, he was in the noon Big Book meeting, and I couldn't believe he was even there. [45:21.6 – 45:31.1] And, uh- And he talked at the meeting, and he said it had happened– There's a, a hospital out in this area called Drake Hospital, and when you get a bunch of DUIs, that's where you have to go do your three-day weekend. [45:31.1 – 45:35.1] And it happened right in front of that hospital when the people there were outside on break. [45:35.1 – 45:38.2] Two cars were drag racing and hit the car Azar was in head-on. [45:38.2 – 45:41.9] And he said, "You know, maybe one of those people got sober if they saw that. [45:41.9 – 45:42.3] I don't know. [45:42.3 – 45:49.4] You know, I have to believe it wasn't for nothing." And I was leaving that day, and I thought, "What if that had been my kid? [45:49.4 – 45:52.4] You know, what would their last thought of me have been? [45:52.4 – 45:54.4] Or what if that had been me? [45:54.4 – 46:01.0] What would they remember about me?" And, um, and I just remember kind of thinking, "You know, I could call them. [46:01.0 – 46:02.2] I have this reprieve. [46:02.2 – 46:07.4] I have th-this gift that I could go call them right now and tell them I love them," you know? [46:07.4 – 46:17.8] And, and when I heard the word gift go by in my head, I remember thinking, "Where did that come from?" Because I am not, you know– I mean, it, it– Do you ever notice it's just the perky, happy people that do treatment [46:17.8 – 46:18.5] center meetings? [46:18.5 – 46:18.9] You know what I mean? [46:18.9 – 46:22.4] "Hi, I'm Susie, and I'm from AA, and it's wonderful." You know? [46:22.4 – 46:25.5] And if I– I mean, grateful people just really made me puke. [46:25.5 – 46:30.3] And, and so I never was– Uh, gratitude was a foreign concept to me. [46:30.3 – 46:34.6] And that day I realized– And it was, it was just one of those spiritual things. [46:34.6 – 46:42.0] I mean, the trees got greener, and the sky got bluer, and I just was, was kinda aware of the presence of God, and that I could go call my kids. [46:42.0 – 46:45.3] And, and the other thing that happened for me that day is I just… [46:45.3 – 46:47.3] I, I guess I just started to live in the moment. [46:47.3 – 46:57.5] I knew right then that I may never, ever have my kids back, and I might never, ever be anything other than a weekend mom, but that I could be the best weekend [46:57.5 – 47:07.5] mom I could be, and that I couldn't clear away all that wreckage, but that from that day forward, I could build a new relationship with them, whatever kind of relationship it was, weekend or not, and that if [47:07.5 – 47:11.3] I was supposed to be there Friday at five, I would be there Friday at five, you know? [47:11.3 – 47:14.0] And if I was supposed to take them somewhere, I would take them somewhere. [47:14.0 – 47:20.0] And, uh, and so I started to show up with my kids, and I started to bring them to meetings because I… [47:20.0 – 47:24.2] You know, and, and that wasn't any, like, altruistic notion of including them in my recovery. [47:24.2 – 47:27.2] It was more like if I went all weekend with them in their meeting, I'd kill them. [47:27.2 – 47:31.1] 'Cause they were four and six when I got sober, and they were a bit bouncy. [47:31.1 – 47:34.1] Um, but I brought them to meetings with me, you know? [47:34.1 – 47:36.3] And, and again, I was spiritually bankrupt. [47:36.3 – 47:40.4] I had nothing to give them, but they got from you guys what I didn't have. [47:40.4 – 47:42.9] People looked them in the eye when they talked to them. [47:42.9 – 47:44.5] People called them by name. [47:44.5 – 47:46.8] People asked them to help get coffee. [47:46.8 – 47:53.1] You know, they would always have a little meeting bag with coloring books and stuff, and, and, and people would color with them, you know? [47:53.1 – 47:54.8] People just gave them their attention. [47:54.8 – 47:57.0] And my kids started to relax, too. [47:57.0 – 47:60.0] And, and I just started seeing things happen. [47:60.0 – 48:03.8] Um, when I was a year sober, we went to a picnic. [48:03.8 – 48:04.9] You know, no big deal. [48:04.9 – 48:07.6] We'd been doing lots of AA eating meetings and picnics and stuff. [48:07.6 – 48:09.2] And, and I looked, and there were kids playing. [48:09.2 – 48:11.2] I said, "Do you wanna go play?" And didn't think much about it. [48:11.2 – 48:15.3] And, uh, half an hour later, Robbie came and tugged on my leg. [48:15.3 – 48:17.6] 'Cause usually they'd say no, and they'd hang out with me. [48:17.6 – 48:19.1] And, you know, no big deal. [48:19.1 – 48:20.0] I was glad to see them. [48:20.0 – 48:30.1] And that day I said, "Oh, look, there's kids on the playground." And, and half an hour later, I feel this tug on my leg, and here's my seven-year-old son saying, "Mommy, I just wanted to let you know that we're playing over [48:30.1 – 48:34.7] here." And I realized that that was the first time they had let me out of their sight. [48:34.7 – 48:44.0] You know, that after a year of Alcoholics Anonymous, they were comfortable enough that they knew if they went and played, I would be there when they got back, you know? [48:44.0 – 48:47.4] And that's, that's the kind of stuff they can't tell you in treatment, you know? [48:47.4 – 48:51.8] Um, that, that Thanksgiving, my life was going pretty well. [48:51.8 – 48:53.3] I mean, I had a job. [48:53.3 – 48:57.2] I had a car that both windows went up and down, and all the doors opened and closed. [48:57.2 – 49:03.7] I had my– I had, I had my driver's license, insurance, and a car all at the same time. [49:03.7 – 49:04.7] You know? [49:04.7 – 49:06.8] I mean, this is a promise of AA. [49:06.8 – 49:15.2] And, uh, I had a little apartment, and, and my kids were coming more and more weekends, and I thought, "You know, I have the house, the car. [49:15.2 – 49:16.6] You know, God's in my life. [49:16.6 – 49:22.8] I– Really all I need is a man for, you know, for Robbie." 'Cause Robbie just had all these women in his life. [49:22.8 – 49:26.2] He had my mom and his sister and me, and, and he's a little guy. [49:26.2 – 49:27.1] He's seven now. [49:27.1 – 49:28.9] He needs some male direction, you know? [49:28.9 – 49:32.0] So for him, I started to, you know, look around a little. [49:32.0 – 49:37.9] And, uh, and Oak Street does this big Thanksgiving thing where they lay out a big meal at one o'clock. [49:37.9 – 49:40.7] So we went to name, date, book, 'cause that's, that's what I do. [49:40.7 – 49:42.5] I go to name, date, book. [49:42.5 – 49:45.7] And the kids went and played, and when I came up, I couldn't find them anywhere. [49:45.7 – 49:52.0] And, um, somebody said, "Well, go look across the street." And there used to be a school across from Oak Street, and there was a big field, you know? [49:52.6 – 49:59.7] And here's my seven-year-old son and another seven-year-old boy and four of the guys from Oak Street who are twenty, twenty-two years old playing football. [49:59.7 – 50:04.3] And every now and then I am graced with the curtain parting just a little bit. [50:04.3 – 50:10.1] I never get to see the whole plan, but every– uh, was that Bob Darrell that said, "Postcard from God?" That was great. [50:10.1 – 50:12.7] You know, the– like, "Dear, dear Beth, you don't know crap. [50:12.7 – 50:14.1] Love, God." You know? [50:14.1 – 50:23.2] And, uh, and, and the curtain parted, and I realized, you know, where else should a seven-year-old boy be on Thanksgiving except playing football with a bunch of adults? [50:23.2 – 50:29.7] But the curtain parting part was that I knew I had had absolutely nothing to do with that, you know. [50:29.7 – 50:34.3] All I did was go to my meeting, and Robbie ended up where he was supposed to be too. [50:34.3 – 50:44.8] And so that kept me going, and, and, and I have been saved over the years from trying to achieve balance in my life because somewhere I've just, I've gotten, [50:44.8 – 50:53.0] you know, I've gotten the message that, you know, my life is, is a scale like this, and my– what this side is my business, and this side is God. [50:53.0 – 51:01.6] And, and when I put everything on the AA side, you know, I mean, I had nothing when I got here, and I put stuff on the AA side, and God gave me the car, the driver's license, you know. [51:01.6 – 51:05.3] I do more AA, and I get the job and, you know, and the kids spend time with me. [51:05.3 – 51:12.2] And, and when I start, like, blowing off meetings to help God with my job and stuff, you know, things start to slide off the other end. [51:12.2 – 51:15.1] So I quit looking for a man that day, you know. [51:15.1 – 51:23.0] I just– because I just kind of knew, at least briefly, you know, um, that, that we were getting what we needed, and my, my kids were okay too. [51:23.0 – 51:31.6] Um, and then a, a couple months after that, like I said, I heard Chuck, I heard Chuck talk when he was about a year sober and, uh, remembered his name. [51:31.6 – 51:34.1] You know, he had a little, he had a little baby face too. [51:34.1 – 51:38.2] He, he looked– everybody thought he was twenty, but I had done the math when he talked. [51:38.2 – 51:39.6] So I was like, okay, you know. [51:39.6 – 51:44.7] And, uh, and we crossed paths periodically, but we kind of ran in different circles. [51:44.7 – 51:54.0] And, and a year later, we just started talking a little more, and, um, and we started talking a little more, and we started talking a little more, and, and we started to date. [51:54.0 – 52:03.0] And, um, we had made the decision that we were just gonna date, you know, that, that at night he would go home, and I would go home, and, uh, which is easier. [52:03.0 – 52:04.6] I had no dating skill. [52:04.6 – 52:11.8] You know, I went from somebody's mommy dropping us at the movie to coming out of a blackout hoping that I know who this is. [52:11.8 – 52:15.0] You know, I never dated. [52:15.0 – 52:16.4] I didn't know how. [52:16.4 – 52:23.3] And, and we dated, which, you know, in AA is like coffee after the meeting or coffee before the meeting or, you know. [52:23.3 – 52:27.8] But, but we dated, and we got to know each other, and we made a commitment to marry. [52:27.8 – 52:33.3] Um, and we set the date fifteen months away because my, my life is a scheduling nightmare. [52:33.3 – 52:37.8] Like he, he– I said, "Well, you know, we really should wait a year," and he– it's a good thing. [52:37.8 – 52:44.8] He pulled out a calendar, a little pocket calendar out of his pocket and said, "Okay, when?" So we, you know, I was like pinned down to a date right then. [52:44.8 – 52:52.0] And, um, June, June– July eleventh, nineteen ninety-two, rolled around, and we still wanted to get married fifteen months later. [52:52.0 – 52:53.4] You know, we still like each other. [52:53.4 – 53:01.0] And, uh, we've been married almost nine years, and we still like each other, and that's– You know, what a nice thing to have a friend like that in AA. [53:01.0 – 53:10.0] You know, I just– It's like my, my rule of thumb I tell the girls I sponsor is, you know, when, when they walk into a room or if he walks into a room, it's your room-a-nizer place. [53:10.0 – 53:12.7] And, uh, and that's how it is for me. [53:12.7 – 53:21.6] You know, that I, I can't think of a time in all these years that Chuck's walked into a meeting that he hadn't planned on being on that I thought, "Oh, what are you doing here?" You know what I mean? [53:21.6 – 53:23.6] Um, and what a blessing that is. [53:23.6 – 53:33.6] And, and we set out at the beginning that, uh, you know, I mean, we talked early on and just said, "On a good day, on a good day, he will be third in my life, and that's as high [53:33.6 – 53:36.9] as he'll ever be," because God's first, and AA's second. [53:36.9 – 53:38.1] You know, and same deal. [53:38.1 – 53:40.1] I don't ever wanna be first in his life. [53:40.1 – 53:45.5] Well, some days, but, you know, in theory, I don't ever wanna be first in his life. [53:45.5 – 53:55.1] Um, and so we've kind of built our relationship around God and then Alcoholics Anonymous, and there's, there's, uh– I don't think Peggy– You know, Peggy will understand this. [53:55.1 – 54:03.3] I think people don't realize how little time we get to spend together sometimes because we're going to different meetings and picking people up or different conventions or, you know. [54:03.3 – 54:10.7] Every now and then it's like, "Wow, I'm home and you're home, really?" You know, um, on the other hand, you know, I, I wouldn't trade it. [54:10.7 – 54:11.5] I wouldn't trade it. [54:11.5 – 54:14.8] I've destroyed many relationships staying home to work on them. [54:14.8 – 54:19.0] Um, so that's been a gift, you know. [54:19.0 – 54:21.3] I, uh, I mentioned new Big Book. [54:21.3 – 54:31.3] I, uh, there was a new Big Book meeting at Oak Street, and I, I gotta tell you, I didn't go because I knew the Big Book had all the answers, and I was going to learn how to stay sober. [54:31.3 – 54:37.5] I went because they go around the room and read the whole chapter, and it chews up half of the hour , so I might not have to talk. [54:37.5 – 54:43.9] And I went because I knew, you know, that you should read your Big Book every day, and I figured, hey, that should count, right? [54:43.9 – 54:44.4] You know. [54:44.4 – 54:47.7] So I went out of pure laziness, plus the meeting's over at one. [54:47.7 – 54:51.2] I had the whole day to myself then, and I had kept my commitment to do a meeting a day. [54:51.2 – 54:52.8] So that's why I went. [54:52.8 – 54:53.7] You know, great motives. [54:53.7 – 54:55.4] Now, God's got a sense of humor. [54:55.4 – 54:59.2] So what happened was, A, I forgot I had no life. [54:59.2 – 55:04.1] So by six o'clock, I was getting a little antsy, and I would end up going to another meeting. [55:04.1 – 55:06.4] And when people read the book to me, I hear it. [55:06.4 – 55:07.9] I hear it when you read it. [55:07.9 – 55:09.1] I don't hear it when I read it. [55:09.1 – 55:11.2] When I read it, I'm making my grocery list. [55:11.2 – 55:12.7] I'm buying my next car. [55:12.7 – 55:16.6] You know, I'm, I'm, uh, husband picking if I was still sober. [55:16.6 – 55:17.8] Uh, anything but reading. [55:17.8 – 55:27.4] So, you know, it's like if I'm reading, it's just kinda like, you know, "Under no condition do we criticize such a person." I wonder if I can get gas for a dollar fifty on the other side of town, you know. [55:27.4 – 55:28.4] I'd hear the page is turned. [55:28.4 – 55:32.8] I'd be like, oh, "Can be accomplished until we do so." I wonder if he's got a girlfriend. [55:32.8 – 55:35.3] I mean, I just couldn't stay on the page, you know. [55:35.3 – 55:37.4] And, and when other people read it, I would hear it. [55:37.4 – 55:45.6] And, and I started to notice when I was, when I was like out, you know, at the grocery or whatever, I mean, my mind has always kept a running conversation up here. [55:45.6 – 55:46.7] It, it just does. [55:46.7 – 55:48.1] There's– I don't know how many people are up here. [55:48.1 – 55:49.3] I just don't count anymore. [55:49.3 – 55:54.4] But I, you know, I, I– every now and then I kind of stop in to see what I was talking about. [55:54.4 – 55:55.1] You know what I mean? [55:55.1 – 56:00.6] And what I started to hear going by up there was, that was pretty cool what Guy said in the meeting today, you know. [56:00.6 – 56:02.4] Well, what'd you think about what Jeannie said? [56:02.4 – 56:07.2] And so even the AA was starting to creep into, you know, the committee upstairs. [56:07.2 – 56:10.1] They were talking about the meeting after the meeting's over. [56:10.1 – 56:12.4] I thought that was a good sign, you know. [56:12.4 – 56:14.4] It's like, okay, we're getting sober up there. [56:14.4 – 56:20.5] So all these things happened just because I went to this big book meeting because I was lazy, you know. [56:20.5 – 56:23.0] And I went through the book. [56:23.0 – 56:26.4] I had thought I'd go through 11 chapters and then graduate to a discussion meeting. [56:26.4 – 56:29.9] And I had such a good time going through it. [56:29.9 – 56:31.3] I thought, well, I'll go through one more time. [56:31.3 – 56:34.0] And what I started to realize was there was laughter in that meeting. [56:34.0 – 56:38.3] You know, I'd been to a lot of like really serious discussion meetings. [56:38.3 – 56:41.0] In this big book meeting, there was laughter. [56:41.0 – 56:46.6] And people were telling on themselves and the goofy stuff they were doing five and 10 years sober and laughing at themselves. [56:46.6 – 56:54.1] And what I realized, and again, God's cosmic joke on me is people who go to big book meetings on purpose tend to read the book and do what it says. [56:54.1 – 57:00.2] And so out of total laziness, I had thrust myself into the middle of the most active people in Cincinnati AA. [57:00.2 – 57:04.2] So I just got sucked into intergroup and committees and conventions. [57:04.2 – 57:05.7] And I kept showing up, you know. [57:05.7 – 57:12.5] And the thing that's been most consistent since June 26, 1988 is that I show up. [57:12.5 – 57:14.6] You know, I show up. [57:14.6 – 57:23.5] I have never since 1988 thought to see, well, I wonder if I can cut two or three meetings and still stay sober. [57:23.5 – 57:25.4] You know, I don't have to do all that. [57:25.4 – 57:26.6] I've been sober a long time. [57:26.6 – 57:32.3] And I've been gifted with watching other people, you know, and just being able to learn from them. [57:32.3 – 57:34.2] I just, I'm happy. [57:34.2 – 57:36.3] You know, I'm happy when I show up. [57:36.3 – 57:39.9] My attitude and outlook on life has changed. [57:39.9 – 57:46.2] When Chuck and I were living in Deer Park, we didn't have the kids yet, but they were coming a lot of weekends. [57:46.2 – 57:50.4] And we had gotten them bicycles because they were that age, you know. [57:50.4 – 57:54.0] So Robbie had his little Huffy and Sarah had a little pink Huffy. [57:54.0 – 57:56.8] And then we thought, you know, they're so little, we probably should get bikes. [57:56.8 – 58:01.7] And a Huffy is just a good, you know, standard bike, not too expensive. [58:01.7 – 58:03.9] So Chuck had a bigger, you know, gray one. [58:03.9 – 58:08.7] And I had a gray one with some lavender trim and, you know, and matched Sarah's except it was bigger. [58:08.7 – 58:13.3] And so the first warm day we go riding through Deer Park's kind of suburban. [58:13.3 – 58:18.4] And we're riding down mom, dad, big brother, little sister on our Huffies, you know. [58:18.4 – 58:22.8] And some guy's out mowing his grass and he waves and I wave. [58:22.8 – 58:26.2] And about the time my hand went up, it's like this zoom camera. [58:26.2 – 58:36.2] I got a look at myself and it was like, oh my God, I used to own a Harley Davidson for God's sakes and I am on [58:36.2 – 58:38.1] a lavender Huffy in public. [58:38.1 – 58:43.3] How did this happen, you know? [58:43.3 – 58:51.6] I mean, if you had told me when I was new, Beth, when you're four years sober, you're going to be riding a lavender bicycle in public. [58:51.6 – 58:53.3] I would have said, oh yeah, sure I will. [58:53.3 – 59:01.0] But really what you never could have told me is right that minute, there's nowhere else I wanted to be. [59:01.0 – 59:04.0] I was exactly where I wanted to be. [59:04.0 – 59:06.8] And I was exactly where I was supposed to be. [59:06.8 – 59:13.6] And that's been a huge gift of Alcoholics Anonymous is that because, you know, that's what I chased the whole time I drank. [59:13.6 – 59:16.7] Every now and then I'd be at the right party at the right time with the right guy. [59:16.7 – 59:19.2] And the rest of the time I should have come earlier. [59:19.2 – 59:20.1] I should have come in with him. [59:20.1 – 59:21.0] I should have gone there. [59:21.0 – 59:26.0] I was trying to find that sense of just being where I was supposed to be. [59:26.0 – 59:33.0] And I've gotten that so many times in Alcoholics Anonymous of just knowing I'm right where I'm supposed to be. [59:33.0 – 59:34.7] And I'm right on time. [59:34.7 – 59:40.5] And it's okay to be who I am, you know, and that my attitude and outlook on life has changed, not through anything I've done. [59:40.5 – 59:47.2] You know, I mean, I do the same stuff to stay sober now that I did when I was new, you know, but God changes my heart. [59:47.2 – 59:50.1] It's the, you know, I mean, that's what he does. [59:50.1 – 59:55.9] And that's what I missed all those other times when I'd pray for that miracle, but never followed up with any action. [59:55.9 – 59:57.4] You know, he's always been there. [59:57.4 – 60:01.0] And I hadn't realized, you know, I had a history of that. [60:01.0 – 60:09.2] I always wanted, if I had a, like a, you know, there was a time in high school when I read a, just a Christian fiction book called Pontius Pilate. [60:09.2 – 60:13.1] And somewhere toward the end of the book, I was just flooded with the presence of God. [60:13.1 – 60:13.6] You know what I mean? [60:13.6 – 60:15.6] It was just, it was just huge. [60:15.6 – 60:17.8] And so I wanted to feel like that again. [60:17.8 – 60:24.8] So I went back to the bookstore and tried to find another book exactly like that one so I could read it and feel exactly the same way. [60:24.8 – 60:27.4] And I miss that with God, we move forward. [60:27.4 – 60:29.0] You know, I move forward. [60:29.0 – 60:30.1] I have that experience. [60:30.1 – 60:30.8] I know he's there. [60:30.8 – 60:34.1] So now my job is to take the next step forward and trust he's going to be there. [60:34.1 – 60:39.0] And that's what I've been missing all those years was that next step forward. [60:39.0 – 60:41.1] You know, I wanted to go back and redo it. [60:41.1 – 60:43.6] And we don't get do-overs. [60:43.6 – 60:46.4] You know, we move forward and trust the next step. [60:46.4 – 60:53.2] I love when Bill Wilson, I used, Bill's story used to, you know, it's okay. [60:53.2 – 60:57.9] But it's like the longer I'm sober, the more I read it, the more I love it. [60:57.9 – 61:07.9] And one of the things that Bill says is the real significance of my experience in the cathedral burst upon me for a brief moment [61:07.9 – 61:09.5] I had needed and wanted God. [61:09.5 – 61:12.4] There had been a humble willingness to have him with me and he came. [61:12.4 – 61:18.1] But soon the sense of his presence had been blotted out by worldly clamors, mostly those within myself. [61:18.1 – 61:21.0] And so it had been ever since how blind I had been. [61:21.0 – 61:25.9] And that's what I realized is, you know, because I never gave much thought to what's a worldly clamor. [61:25.9 – 61:35.7] You know, well, it's him and the job and the house and I need more of this and I got to, you know, all that stuff, all those things I was trying to get to fix me. [61:35.7 – 61:39.5] And they just, they just drowned out the music of God, you know. [61:39.5 – 61:44.5] And I mean, it's all through the book, you know, it's all through the book. [61:44.5 – 61:51.1] I just, you know, but what the book says is God of your understanding, you know, that we don't, we don't have to take somebody else's God. [61:51.1 – 62:01.1] We don't have to take, you know, that it's deep down within and And one of the things that another thing I hadn't noticed till it was pointed out, it says when it's, you know, when you're talking to the new person, let [62:01.1 – 62:02.8] him find his own conception of God. [62:02.8 – 62:04.7] But that's not the end of the sentence. [62:04.7 – 62:10.0] You know, it says, look, let him find his own conception of God provided it makes sense to him. [62:10.0 – 62:20.4] And I think sometimes we have been abandoning newcomers to create their own higher power instead of finding the one that they already got, you know, and, [62:20.4 – 62:22.5] and the book taught me how to do that. [62:22.5 – 62:32.6] I didn't I didn't have any spiritual direction before I before I took these steps, you know, that the back of the book talks about a spiritual awakening that some [62:32.6 – 62:41.6] old timers would call it God consciousness that becoming aware of the presence of God, you know, is the whole that essence of a spiritual experience is becoming aware of the presence of God. [62:41.6 – 62:44.9] So if I take that my mind kind of works in algebra equations. [62:44.9 – 62:55.1] So, you know, if I take that that definition of spiritual experience or spiritual awakening and plug it into step 12, it says having become aware of the presence [62:55.1 – 62:57.6] of God as the result of these steps. [62:57.6 – 63:06.3] You know, I mean, we don't find God and turn it over in step three, you know, step step three for me was I'm going to do step four. [63:06.3 – 63:16.3] I'm going to do step five, you know, and when I get to 12 as a result of these steps, I have become aware of the presence of God because I've got enough of my stuff [63:16.3 – 63:25.9] out of the way that I can hear him, you know, and I've come to believe, you know, my alcoholism is not going to whisper in my ear to, you know, go kill my children or something. [63:25.9 – 63:29.5] But what it's going to do is try to keep me distracted and interrupted. [63:29.5 – 63:39.6] So so I can't hear the music of God, you know, so my job is to keep my eyes, you know, on God that the people who walk the tight ropes, you know, when they ask them [63:39.6 – 63:40.8] to stand. [63:40.8 – 63:42.3] No, I always want to say Sam ponies. [63:42.3 – 63:43.0] I know that's wrong. [63:43.0 – 63:44.7] Who's the flying wallendas? [63:44.7 – 63:48.0] Somebody said, well, how do you you know, how do you stay on the tightrope? [63:48.0 – 63:50.9] And he said, well, I fix my eyes off on that point in the distance. [63:50.9 – 63:52.4] He doesn't watch his feet. [63:52.4 – 63:55.1] You know, if you look down at your feet, you get wobbly. [63:55.1 – 63:58.7] And that's kind of how how AA and God have been to me. [63:58.7 – 64:02.4] If I fix my eyes on that and I don't look at my feet, you know what I mean? [64:02.4 – 64:04.0] There was a guy in a meeting when I was new. [64:04.0 – 64:09.6] He said he really thought that God gave us AA to keep us busy and out of the way so that he could run our lives. [64:09.6 – 64:11.3] And and I find that to be true. [64:11.3 – 64:16.7] If I'm busy doing AA, I don't I don't have to worry about the rest of it. [64:16.7 – 64:27.3] You know, it kind of falls into place, probably like Robbie and his football game, because I'm not trying to fix it, you know, and I've been given so much that why [64:27.3 – 64:28.8] would I do less to keep it now? [64:28.8 – 64:32.1] You know, I mean, I have more than I've ever had. [64:32.1 – 64:34.2] I have more than I've ever had. [64:34.2 – 64:37.0] So it's not a good time for me to do less. [64:37.0 – 64:39.8] You know, I still go to a lot of meetings. [64:39.8 – 64:41.5] I still you know, I sponsor women. [64:41.5 – 64:42.4] They sponsor women. [64:42.4 – 64:45.7] We've got four generations of sponsorship sitting here. [64:45.7 – 64:55.9] My sponsors here and Debbie's got a girl she sponsors, you know, I just show up and I and some days I don't want to, you know, and Chuck shows [64:55.9 – 64:57.9] up and we don't see each other much. [64:57.9 – 65:05.0] But, you know, that's what I do is I have a responsibility to give it to the next person. [65:05.0 – 65:06.5] Somebody was here when I got here. [65:06.5 – 65:13.3] Somebody was in the row in front of me to turn around and put up their hand when I didn't have a hand to say, you know, to say the Lord's Prayer with. [65:13.3 – 65:18.3] And and I'm accountable to be there to do that for the next person, you know. [65:18.3 – 65:22.3] And so you'll see me standing at the door greeting people at Fox Hall. [65:22.3 – 65:25.3] You know, Fox Hall is my home group. [65:25.3 – 65:27.1] Monday nights, eight o'clock in the theater. [65:27.1 – 65:27.5] It's great. [65:27.5 – 65:28.2] We have cake. [65:28.2 – 65:31.1] You're all welcome. [65:31.1 – 65:33.6] It's you know, it's a great meeting. [65:33.6 – 65:34.1] We have fun. [65:34.1 – 65:36.0] It's like this positive enthusiasm. [65:36.0 – 65:39.6] We give our sobriety dates and we clap and we have cake and we have a lot of fun. [65:39.6 – 65:44.5] And, you know, a fellowship has grown up about me, just like the book said. [65:44.5 – 65:50.0] And and this relationship with God, the one I have now is nothing like what I had when I was new. [65:50.0 – 65:54.8] You know, it's it's it's grown and deepened and developed to as it should, you know. [65:54.8 – 66:02.0] But I got to I got to remember, you know, that I mean, my book says this means we're going to talk about God. [66:02.0 – 66:05.8] So, you know, for new people, I mean, there's good news and bad news. [66:05.8 – 66:09.8] You know, I mean, the bad news is, yeah, we're going to talk about God, you know. [66:09.8 – 66:18.9] But the good news is we're going to talk about God, you know, because because there is one who has all power. [66:18.9 – 66:20.6] May you find him now. [66:20.6 – 66:22.0] You know, thanks a lot.