Conversation with Nancy M presented by Conversation with Nancy M – 2025-10-28

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Unknown Tuesday Night History Workshop • 2025

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Unknown ABOUT THIS WORKSHOP

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Unknown Conversation with Nancy M speaking on "Conversation with Nancy M" in Tuesday Night History Workshop (October 28, 2025). This recording is preserved in high-fidelity with interactive scrolling transcripts.

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Unknown Interactive Transcript

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[00 00:04.080 – 00:00:08.220] Welcome to the Tuesday night Recovery Speakers history workshop.

0:17

[00 00:08.220 – 00:00:09.660] Thank you for joining us.

0:19

[00 00:09.660 – 00:00:16.100] My name is Tim, and tonight's presentation is our Conversation with a Longtimer.

0:24

[00 00:16.100 – 00:00:19.160] And tonight we have Nancy M.

0:26

[00 00:19.160 – 00:00:27.000] And, uh, we do the Conversation with a Longtimer on the last Tuesday of every month.

0:32

[00 00:27.000 – 00:00:35.079] We meet, we meet here every Tuesday at the same time using the same Zoom ID.

0:38

[00 00:35.079 – 00:00:45.079] And next week will be, uh, Nancy from Galt, California, presenting her, the last part on, on

0:44

[00 00:45.079 – 00:00:47.240] the traditions with Tradition 12.

0:45

[00 00:47.240 – 00:00:51.060] So join us again, uh, next week.

0:48

[00 00:51.060 – 00:00:56.880] And I'm trying to pull up here my flyers that I wanna share with everyone.

0:54

[00 00:56.880 – 00:01:07.120] Um, this meeting is being recorded, and all past audio presentations are available at recoveryspeakers.com, and

1:00

[00 01:07.120 – 00:01:11.620] I have shared that in the, the link to that in the chat.

1:05

[00 01:11.620 – 00:01:21.680] We are not affiliated with any 12-step organization, although our focus is on the history of AA and other 12-step

1:12

[00 01:21.680 – 00:01:22.400] fellowships.

1:13

[00 01:22.400 – 00:01:32.480] Recovery Speakers is a 501[c]3 nonprofit dedicated to preserving and sharing the audio history of AA

1:18

[00 01:32.480 – 00:01:37.659] and the 12-step movement today and for future generations.

1:22

[00 01:37.659 – 00:01:45.439] And I'm want to go through a few of our flyers here that we're have upcoming presentations.

1:28

[00 01:45.439 – 00:01:53.060] And tonight is Nancy M., and next week is Nancy K.

1:32

[00 01:53.060 – 00:02:00.579] And then we have a special two-week presentation on the 12 traditions presented by Mike F.

1:38

[00 02:00.579 – 00:02:05.560] And then our Conversation with a Longtimer is Pat Y.

1:41

[00 02:05.560 – 00:02:06.540] for November.

1:42

[00 02:06.540 – 00:02:11.020] So join us again for our conversation with Pat.

1:46

[00 02:11.020 – 00:02:18.840] And we send out a daily email featuring a speaker talk from our archive.

1:51

[00 02:18.840 – 00:02:26.120] The recordings of these meetings and information on upcoming presentations are all in the daily email.

1:57

[00 02:26.120 – 00:02:36.159] And to subscribe, you can use the link in the chat, or you can send me an email at info@recoveryspeakers.com, and I

2:05

[00 02:36.159 – 00:02:37.939] will get you added to our list.

2:08

[00 02:37.939 – 00:02:44.400] And if you are able to support our mission, uh, contributions are appreciated.

2:13

[00 02:44.400 – 00:02:49.800] The donation link is in the chat, or you can use the QR code that is up on the screen.

2:20

[00 02:49.800 – 00:02:56.780] And tonight, as Penny was just saying, uh, we'll have some time at the end for Q&A.

2:27

[00 02:56.780 – 00:03:05.340] So if you have any questions for Nancy tonight, um, please write down your questions and be ready to ask them at the end of the meeting.

2:36

[00 03:05.340 – 00:03:12.639] I am going to close the chat right now and turn it right over to Penny.

2:42

[00 03:12.639 – 00:03:20.120] And Penny, thank you so much for continuing to bring these great long-timers in and share their experience with us.

2:49

[00 03:20.120 – 00:03:24.219] And, uh, we are so grateful for you and all that goes into this.

2:54

[00 03:24.219 – 00:03:27.240] Thanks, Tim.

2:56

[00 03:27.240 – 00:03:28.979] Um, hi, y'all.

2:57

[00 03:28.979 – 00:03:29.960] My name is Penny P.

2:59

[00 03:29.960 – 00:03:37.080] I'm an alcoholic, and, uh, my sobriety date is October 9th, 1977.

3:03

[00 03:37.080 – 00:03:43.819] I just celebrated 48 years of continuous sobriety in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous earlier this month.

3:09

[00 03:43.819 – 00:03:50.639] So grateful to be here, and grateful for the opportunity to do another Conversation with a Longtimer.

3:15

[00 03:50.639 – 00:04:00.699] For those of you who maybe haven't been with us before, um, what we do in this meeting is, um, it's kind of an interview style meeting, but we're really

3:26

[00 04:00.699 – 00:04:06.780] having a conversation as opposed to just tossing questions at, um, our long-timer.

3:31

[00 04:06.780 – 00:04:17.079] Um, this came about because Nancy K., who is presenting next week, uh, was doing a talk on Recovery Speakers about,

3:38

[00 04:17.079 – 00:04:18.980] um, some of our pioneer women.

3:40

[00 04:18.980 – 00:04:21.300] And we were...

3:42

[00 04:21.300 – 00:04:26.660] There were questions asked that we don't have people around to answer those questions.

3:47

[00 04:26.660 – 00:04:27.959] And I thought, "Wait a minute.

3:49

[00 04:27.959 – 00:04:29.860] We've got all of these long-timers.

3:52

[00 04:29.860 – 00:04:34.519] Let's talk to them and get them recorded." So that's how this started.

3:57

[00 04:34.519 – 00:04:38.069] And all of our long-timers are 50 or more years sober.

4:00

[00 04:38.069 – 00:04:48.240] Um, if you're interested in previous recordings, you can go to recoveryspeakers.com and search on Conversation With

4:07

[00 04:48.240 – 00:04:54.529] A, and you will get our whole list of, um, long-timers that we've talked with.

4:12

[00 04:54.529 – 00:04:59.300] And, um, I just got an update from my friend Patrick O.

4:17

[00 04:59.300 – 00:05:04.899] about, um, a long-timer that we spoke with a year or so ago, Carol L.

4:22

[00 05:04.899 – 00:05:12.279] from the East Coast, and she's still going strong, and I think 68 years sober, Patrick?

4:28

[00 05:12.279 – 00:05:22.639] And, um, and for those of you who may not have heard, another long-timer that we spoke with, um, about a year ago, George

4:36

[00 05:22.639 – 00:05:28.040] D., former manager of the general service office, passed away on Sunday.

4:41

[00 05:28.040 – 00:05:34.199] He was 98 years old and, um, I think 68 years sober.

4:45

[00 05:34.199 – 00:05:42.439] So, um, grateful to have had the privilege of talking with him before, before he passed.

4:50

[00 05:42.439 – 00:05:45.860] So I'm gonna, um, introduce Nancy.

4:53

[00 05:45.860 – 00:05:52.509] Um, and, uh, Tim, if you would spotlight the two of us, that would be helpful.

4:59

[00 05:52.509 – 00:05:54.500] And, um...

5:00

[00 05:54.500 – 00:05:59.069] And we'll get started.

5:01

[00 05:59.069 – 00:06:03.720] So Nancy, welcome to Conversation with a Longtimer.

5:05

[00 06:03.720 – 00:06:05.968] Thank you so much for being willing to do this.

5:08

[00 06:05.968 – 00:06:16.480] Um, if you would introduce yourself, give us your name, your sobriety date, uh, your home group, um, your sponsorship

5:16

[00 06:16.480 – 00:06:19.360] line, any of those kinds of things, the basics of, of who you is when you introduce yourselves.

5:22

[00 06:19.360 – 00:06:19.699] All right.

5:23

[00 06:19.699 – 00:06:20.879] Thank you, Penny.

5:24

[00 06:20.879 – 00:06:21.579] Hi, everybody.

5:25

[00 06:21.579 – 00:06:23.779] I'm Nancy Morris.

5:27

[00 06:23.779 – 00:06:26.279] Is that okay, or should I not say my last name?

5:31

[00 06:26.279 – 00:06:26.920] I just did.

5:32

[00 06:26.920 – 00:06:36.920] So, um, when you were talking, I was getting a little nervous because, because long-timers might not remember all the things that you would like us to

5:42

[00 06:36.920 – 00:06:38.629] remember and talk about.

5:44

[00 06:38.629 – 00:06:40.060] That's a problem.

5:45

[00 06:40.060 – 00:06:44.420] But anyway, my sobriety date is May 23rd, 1971.

5:48

[00 06:44.420 – 00:06:51.379] And, um, my home group is the Pacific Group.

5:52

[00 06:51.379 – 00:06:53.089] And, um-

5:53

[00 06:53.227 – 00:06:55.207] My sponsor is Mari.

5:54

[00 06:55.207 – 00:06:59.847] Measurements?

5:55

[00 06:59.847 – 00:07:03.007] Did you ask me my measurements or anything?

5:58

[00 07:03.007 – 00:07:03.717] Um- No?

5:59

[00 07:03.717 – 00:07:03.717] ...

5:59

[00 07:03.717 – 00:07:05.747] uh, your, your home group is?

6:02

[00 07:05.747 – 00:07:09.387] The Pacific Group.

6:03

[00 07:09.387 – 00:07:10.787] The Pacific Group, okay.

6:05

[00 07:10.787 – 00:07:13.407] And, um- Yes ...

6:06

[00 07:13.407 – 00:07:20.727] so as I told you when we talked, uh, we don't really talk about, um, where, uh, anything about our drinking.

6:14

[00 07:20.727 – 00:07:31.407] We start with, so what was going on that on May 23rd 1971, I think you came to your first meeting before that I believe,

6:22

[00 07:31.407 – 00:07:32.207] if I remember- Yeah ...

6:24

[00 07:32.207 – 00:07:33.187] your story.

6:25

[00 07:33.187 – 00:07:33.727] So, yeah.

6:26

[00 07:33.727 – 00:07:34.947] Can I say that part?

6:28

[00 07:34.947 – 00:07:35.607] Yes.

6:29

[00 07:35.607 – 00:07:38.207] We would love to hear, how did you first come to AA?

6:33

[00 07:38.207 – 00:07:38.646] Okay.

6:34

[00 07:38.646 – 00:07:42.847] And then how did you get to that place on, on May 23rd?

6:39

[00 07:42.847 – 00:07:44.167] Okay, great.

6:40

[00 07:44.167 – 00:07:50.187] Um, I first came in, um, just in, um, January of 1971.

6:44

[00 07:50.187 – 00:07:53.607] I was 26 years old.

6:46

[00 07:53.607 – 00:07:58.287] I, um, had not heard about Alcoholics Anonymous.

6:49

[00 07:58.287 – 00:08:05.247] Definitely knew I had a drinking problem.

6:52

[00 08:05.247 – 00:08:06.967] I knew I couldn't quit.

6:54

[00 08:06.967 – 00:08:17.047] I have, um, five brothers and a sister, mother and a father, all alcoholics except our mother, and, um,

7:00

[00 08:17.047 – 00:08:18.947] I had three little kids.

7:03

[00 08:18.947 – 00:08:22.147] Two three-year-olds and a one-year-old, and a husband.

7:06

[00 08:22.147 – 00:08:30.867] And, you know, as a teenager I drank of course, and you know, up until, drank, you know, got married and drank, and I was...

7:15

[00 08:30.867 – 00:08:34.867] Every single day I drank, and I knew that I had a problem.

7:19

[00 08:34.867 – 00:08:37.187] So my husband knew I had a problem also.

7:23

[00 08:37.187 – 00:08:47.287] He would try to catch me by marking the bottles, but I would, you know, know he was doing that, and I would make new marks on them so he couldn't see, see where his

7:35

[00 08:47.287 – 00:08:47.887] marks were.

7:36

[00 08:47.887 – 00:08:56.747] So, um, but one night, um, in January 1971, I, I got very drunk and I left.

7:42

[00 08:56.747 – 00:08:58.907] We had company, I left with the company.

7:45

[00 08:58.907 – 00:09:00.467] I didn't say goodbye to my husband.

7:48

[00 09:00.467 – 00:09:02.427] I went somewhere else, drank.

7:50

[00 09:02.427 – 00:09:07.807] Then I called him later that night to come get me, and he got the neighbor to watch the kids.

7:57

[00 09:07.807 – 00:09:09.427] And he came and he got me.

8:00

[00 09:09.427 – 00:09:19.627] Now he had me alone, and he drove me home and he said, uh, and I mean alone because I really tried to avoid having conversations with my v- my

8:10

[00 09:19.627 – 00:09:29.857] own husband prior to that, because I knew I had a drinking problem and I didn't want it brought up because I didn't know that there was anything that I could do about

8:22

[00 09:29.857 – 00:09:30.047] it.

8:23

[00 09:30.047 – 00:09:36.747] So in driving me home he said to me, um, "If you don't quit drinking you have to leave.

8:30

[00 09:36.747 – 00:09:45.107] You have to leave without the kids." And I said, "Okay, I'm, I'm gonna leave." I mean, I, I, I couldn't quit.

8:38

[00 09:45.107 – 00:09:51.107] We only had one car, I didn't wanna take the car, and I was trying to think of somebody who could come get me.

8:46

[00 09:51.107 – 00:10:01.367] And I picked up the phone, I don't know who I was gonna call, and my husband came in the room and he said, "I don't care where you go, but you can't run away from it."

8:59

[00 10:01.367 – 00:10:08.427] And this is where, I mean, when I look back, I know that, that there was a God that intervened in my life at that moment.

9:08

[00 10:08.427 – 00:10:14.847] And I hung up the phone without giving it any thought, and we did not have cell phones.

9:15

[00 10:14.847 – 00:10:18.447] I called his brother, who's a Catholic priest.

9:18

[00 10:18.447 – 00:10:19.947] He's still alive.

9:19

[00 10:19.947 – 00:10:21.567] He's a monsignor now.

9:21

[00 10:21.567 – 00:10:23.167] He lived in Pennsylvania.

9:23

[00 10:23.167 – 00:10:25.367] I was in California.

9:25

[00 10:25.367 – 00:10:27.527] I don't know why I called him.

9:27

[00 10:27.527 – 00:10:34.347] And he answered the phone, and I said, "I can't quit drinking." That was the first time I ever said that.

9:35

[00 10:34.347 – 00:10:36.967] And he said to me, "I can't help you.

9:38

[00 10:36.967 – 00:10:39.227] The Catholic Church can't help you.

9:41

[00 10:39.227 – 00:10:48.107] But Alcoholics Anonymous can help you." So, um, Joe, my husband Joe, got the neighbor to watch the kids.

9:48

[00 10:48.107 – 00:10:57.267] I went and, and, uh, put on this bright orange po- ...

9:52

[00 10:57.267 – 00:11:04.127] and, um, my hair was awful and I was just, I didn't look good, as we don't when we come in here.

10:00

[00 11:04.127 – 00:11:07.287] And, uh, Joe found out where there was an AA meeting that night.

10:04

[00 11:07.287 – 00:11:14.057] Luckily that meeting that he found started at 8:30 PM and ended at 10:00.

10:09

[00 11:14.057 – 00:11:17.407] And we got there about 10 minutes to 10:00 maybe.

10:12

[00 11:17.407 – 00:11:20.447] Driving there I told Joe, "Take me home.

10:15

[00 11:20.447 – 00:11:21.827] I don't wanna go.

10:17

[00 11:21.827 – 00:11:23.447] Why do I have to go?

10:19

[00 11:23.447 – 00:11:26.487] My brothers don't, why do, they drink more than I do.

10:23

[00 11:26.487 – 00:11:30.067] Take me home." I pretended I was gonna jump out of the car.

10:28

[00 11:30.067 – 00:11:33.187] He started going faster, and he got me to the meeting.

10:32

[00 11:33.187 – 00:11:39.887] And we walked in, and there were folding chairs set up in this room and maybe 30 people, I'm not sure.

10:39

[00 11:39.887 – 00:11:45.147] And, um, we sat down, and here I am in my bright orange outfit.

10:45

[00 11:45.147 – 00:11:50.227] And when the meeting was over, everyone came around me because it was obvious that I was a newcomer.

10:51

[00 11:50.227 – 00:11:54.527] And I started throwing up on their feet, on their shoes.

10:56

[00 11:54.527 – 00:11:58.527] I, I didn't do it intentionally, but um, it happened.

10:59

[00 11:58.527 – 00:12:00.947] I ran outside to the parking lot.

11:02

[00 12:00.947 – 00:12:05.987] They all came outside to the parking lot, and they stood around me.

11:07

[00 12:05.987 – 00:12:07.647] They loved having a newcomer.

11:09

[00 12:07.647 – 00:12:09.027] They were so happy.

11:11

[00 12:09.027 – 00:12:15.167] It was like they were singing and dancing and rejoicing, you know, watching the newcomer throw up that night.

11:17

[00 12:15.167 – 00:12:24.007] So, um, there were two ladies there, and they, I think they s- they said I could stay and talk to them.

11:25

[00 12:24.007 – 00:12:25.927] Well, I didn't wanna stay and talk to them.

11:29

[00 12:25.927 – 00:12:28.207] So we went home.

11:31

[00 12:28.207 – 00:12:34.767] But Joe told them where we lived, and the next day I was sitting on my couch just, just numb.

11:38

[00 12:34.767 – 00:12:36.157] Like, "What happened?

11:39

[00 12:36.157 – 00:12:46.247] The n- what happened last night?" Then there was a little knock on my door, and I opened the door and it was the two ladies from the meeting, and they came in

11:51

[00 12:46.247 – 00:12:47.747] and they sat in my living room.

11:54

[00 12:47.747 – 00:12:51.607] One of them gave me her little 24-hour book that was already used.

11:58

[00 12:51.607 – 00:12:52.987] I still have it.

12:00

[00 12:52.987 – 00:12:54.687] I read it every day.

12:02

[00 12:54.687 – 00:13:04.427] It's absolutely falling apart, but it means a lot to me, and it, it means a lot to me n- to know that those two ladies took time out of their life.

12:13

[00 13:04.427 – 00:13:11.387] I know they didn't have me scheduled in their calendar that day, and they got together and they came over to my house.

12:22

[00 13:11.387 – 00:13:16.427] I found they were in their 50s, which was quite elderly, you know?

12:26

[00 13:16.427 – 00:13:23.627] And, um, they tried to find somebody younger, but they couldn't find anybody, so they just came themselves.

12:33

[00 13:23.627 – 00:13:27.967] All they did was sit in my living room, and they told me their stories.

12:38

[00 13:27.967 – 00:13:31.587] And I immediately felt like they were my best friends.

12:42

[00 13:31.587 – 00:13:39.547] I felt so comfortable and so, I just, it w- it, it, I just felt like I knew them my whole life.

12:50

[00 13:39.547 – 00:13:43.907] And of course, you know, that's how we are, you know, as alcoholics.

12:55

[00 13:43.907 – 00:13:46.137] So, um, I'm just gonna, you know-

12:58

[00 13:46.402 – 00:13:47.622] So that was in May.

13:00

[00 13:47.622 – 00:13:50.962] I loved, um, um, sobriety.

13:02

[00 13:50.962 – 00:13:54.162] Um, I, I started going to meetings.

13:05

[00 13:54.162 – 00:14:01.482] They took me and then I s- I got over to the Pacific Group, somebody took me there.

13:11

[00 14:01.482 – 00:14:11.662] And, um, a lady had offered to be my sponsor in, uh, Lou Johnson, and she was sponsoring me, and I don't really know why, but after four months,

13:21

[00 14:11.662 – 00:14:17.002] I went and bought a half gallon of wine, and I'm not really sure why I did it, but I did it.

13:29

[00 14:17.002 – 00:14:27.042] And, um, I went out and I drank the wine, and I was driving on the freeway, and I threw the bottle out the window, and I thought I would get arrested, and nothing happened.

13:42

[00 14:27.042 – 00:14:37.422] And I went home, and the next thing I knew, I was face down on this blue shag carpeting in my den with, just surrounded by my own vomit

13:52

[00 14:37.422 – 00:14:39.282] for, hopefully for the last time.

13:54

[00 14:39.282 – 00:14:49.282] And Joe, my husband, was sitting there, and he didn't really wanna help me, but he didn't want me to die in my vomit, so he just sat there and he was looking at me.

14:07

[00 14:49.282 – 00:14:54.302] And I got up that day and got cleaned up, and I went back to AA right away.

14:13

[00 14:54.302 – 00:14:58.082] And, um, there's a, there was a lady there.

14:17

[00 14:58.082 – 00:15:01.362] In fact, she was at Kenna's birthday party on Sunday.

14:20

[00 15:01.362 – 00:15:02.822] Her name's Mary Ann King.

14:22

[00 15:02.822 – 00:15:08.402] And, um, I said hi to, to her, and she said, "Oh, hi.

14:27

[00 15:08.402 – 00:15:15.522] How are you doing?" And I said, "I drank last night," and she gave me the stiff arm and walked away.

14:35

[00 15:15.522 – 00:15:25.122] Now, I think that was a good thing for me because, because I, you know, wanted everybody to like me.

14:42

[00 15:25.122 – 00:15:26.782] It made me go back.

14:44

[00 15:26.782 – 00:15:28.002] "I'm gonna make her like me.

14:46

[00 15:28.002 – 00:15:35.722] I'm not gonna drink anymore." And so, um, I, you know, so since that time, I haven't had any alcohol.

14:54

[00 15:35.722 – 00:15:38.782] And I've been active the whole time.

14:56

[00 15:38.782 – 00:15:41.062] So- Do you want me to talk more?

14:59

[00 15:41.062 – 00:15:42.202] No.

15:00

[00 15:42.202 – 00:15:44.982] So Lou Johnson was your first sponsor.

15:03

[00 15:44.982 – 00:15:51.792] Uh, Mary Ann King didn't ha- didn't say, "There, there, honey, it's okay," when- No ...

15:08

[00 15:51.792 – 00:15:56.022] you told her you drank, and but you came back right away.

15:13

[00 15:56.022 – 00:16:03.862] Um, so, um, I, I do wanna ask about your brother-in-law, the Catholic priest.

15:18

[00 16:03.862 – 00:16:05.842] I, did you grow up Catholic?

15:20

[00 16:05.842 – 00:16:07.442] Yes, I did.

15:22

[00 16:07.442 – 00:16:10.142] And in fact, he's still alive.

15:24

[00 16:10.142 – 00:16:12.361] He's a monsignor.

15:26

[00 16:12.361 – 00:16:15.442] I see him a couple times a year.

15:29

[00 16:15.442 – 00:16:25.522] We reminisce about the phone call, and he holds my hand, and he tells me, "I can remember exactly where I was standing when the phone rang, and it was you."

15:40

[00 16:25.522 – 00:16:30.382] So yeah, it's- Isn't that, isn't that amazing?

15:43

[00 16:30.382 – 00:16:31.132] Mm-hmm.

15:43

[00 16:31.132 – 00:16:38.082] I, I had the opportunity a couple weeks ago to have breakfast with the woman that sat next to me at my very first meeting.

15:52

[00 16:38.082 – 00:16:38.372] Mm-hmm.

15:53

[00 16:38.372 – 00:16:43.342] And it wasn't important to her, 'cause it wasn't her first meeting.

15:57

[00 16:43.342 – 00:16:43.372] Mm-hmm.

15:58

[00 16:43.372 – 00:16:44.682] It was my first meeting.

16:00

[00 16:44.682 – 00:16:47.642] And but, oh, we had such a great visit.

16:04

[00 16:47.642 – 00:16:53.722] So, um, so when you came in, so you knew enough to get a sponsor after a while.

16:10

[00 16:53.722 – 00:16:54.282] Mm-hmm.

16:11

[00 16:54.282 – 00:17:00.832] What was w- did, did Lou assign herself as your sponsor, or did you ask her to sponsor you?

16:18

[00 17:00.832 – 00:17:01.142] Yeah.

16:18

[00 17:01.142 – 00:17:02.602] No, I did ask her.

16:20

[00 17:02.602 – 00:17:05.702] I don't think I could have asked anybody to be my sponsor.

16:25

[00 17:05.702 – 00:17:15.812] And the two ladies that helped me did, but I was living in, um, kind of, you know, in, in, in Ventura County and where I, where I ended up going to meetings that were about

16:38

[00 17:15.812 – 00:17:18.082] 40 miles away, which I really liked.

16:40

[00 17:18.082 – 00:17:21.402] And there were a lot of real young, young, much younger people there.

16:45

[00 17:21.402 – 00:17:22.742] It's not like it is now.

16:47

[00 17:22.742 – 00:17:24.772] It's not like then- Right ...

16:49

[00 17:24.772 – 00:17:25.222] it was.

16:50

[00 17:25.222 – 00:17:28.182] It, so, so, um, yeah, it's kind of funny.

16:54

[00 17:28.182 – 00:17:38.482] That's a, you know, interesting question because I, um, I'm, her sponsor was Marian Wallen, and I'm sure Marian told Lou, "You've gotta find a newcomer."

17:03

[00 17:38.482 – 00:17:42.362] So I don't think Lou had more than a year or so.

17:07

[00 17:42.362 – 00:17:49.482] And, so, um, you know, so I s- we were together for about a year, Lou and I.

17:14

[00 17:49.482 – 00:17:53.522] And then, you know, I think I outgrew her.

17:17

[00 17:53.522 – 00:17:53.842] Uh-huh.

17:18

[00 17:53.842 – 00:18:01.462] And then I got this other really mean lady by the name of Bea Evans, who was really mean.

17:25

[00 18:01.462 – 00:18:08.282] And, um, I did do a, a fourth and fifth, uh, with each of those two sponsors.

17:31

[00 18:08.282 – 00:18:13.362] So when they took you through the steps, did you, um...

17:35

[00 18:13.362 – 00:18:18.522] So my experience was my sponsor gave me reading assignments.

17:39

[00 18:18.522 – 00:18:21.122] We didn't sit and read the book together.

17:42

[00 18:21.122 – 00:18:23.402] But did you go through the Big Book?

17:45

[00 18:23.402 – 00:18:26.742] Did they have you read the book and then do the steps out of the book?

17:51

[00 18:26.742 – 00:18:31.452] Or do you remember how you, how they took you through the steps the first couple times?

17:57

[00 18:31.452 – 00:18:36.382] Well, it's interesting, because I don't believe anybody has ever taken me through the steps.

18:03

[00 18:36.382 – 00:18:43.342] At least where, where, where I came in, and when I came in, it was not a thing.

18:09

[00 18:43.342 – 00:18:51.142] And so, um, I, Lou told me when it was time for me to do my fourth step.

18:16

[00 18:51.142 – 00:19:00.432] And if we had a c- any conversations before that about- A, a ...

18:21

[00 19:00.432 – 00:19:03.222] I, I have no recollection of that really.

18:24

[00 19:03.222 – 00:19:03.252] Right.

18:24

[00 19:03.252 – 00:19:13.342] And, um, so she told me when it was time for me to do my fourth step, and we used, um, w- which I still use, and

18:34

[00 19:13.342 – 00:19:23.282] I sponsor a lot of people, and I give them the choice of using the seven questions which I was given or doing it out of the Big Book.

18:44

[00 19:23.282 – 00:19:28.341] And I've chose to do the seven questions, which are right there.

18:49

[00 19:28.341 – 00:19:29.342] Okay.

18:49

[00 19:29.342 – 00:19:30.042] And, um...

18:50

[00 19:30.042 – 00:19:35.532] So for those of us that aren't familiar with the seven questions, can you give us an example?

18:57

[00 19:35.532 – 00:19:36.402] Yes.

18:58

[00 19:36.402 – 00:19:46.402] The number one, which is pretty much the most difficult one, going back over your life, what memories are the most painful, the most

19:06

[00 19:46.402 – 00:19:50.542] sad, cause you guilt feelings, and are the most dirty?

19:10

[00 19:50.542 – 00:19:57.922] So I was told to get a big notebook and to just sit down and start writing, writing, writing, writing, writing.

19:17

[00 19:57.922 – 00:20:06.902] And, um, and I'll just, number two is today, in what way do you feel inadequate as the person you wish you were?

19:26

[00 20:06.902 – 00:20:16.922] And as I'm reading these to you and thinking about them, you know, like we all do when you're one year sober or in that, you do the best you

19:36

[00 20:16.922 – 00:20:17.342] can.

19:37

[00 20:17.342 – 00:20:17.652] Yeah.

19:38

[00 20:17.652 – 00:20:21.602] I mean, everything has changed so much, of course, over the years.

19:42

[00 20:21.602 – 00:20:24.962] But, um, who do you resent and why?

19:45

[00 20:24.962 – 00:20:28.442] Um, what do you conceive to be your defects of character?

19:49

[00 20:28.442 – 00:20:31.622] And, like, and what are your goals?

19:52

[00 20:31.622 – 00:20:38.062] Do you see any way that AA can help you to begin, um, to achieve these goals?

19:58

[00 20:38.062 – 00:20:39.312] Do you see any-

20:00

[00 20:39.456 – 00:20:42.566] way in general that you can begin to start toward these goals.

20:05

[00 20:42.566 – 00:20:47.836] So I was told to get a big notebook, and I would, I would do my best.

20:11

[00 20:47.836 – 00:20:52.996] I would sit down and write and write and write, and then I would hide that notebook.

20:17

[00 20:52.996 – 00:21:02.776] I thought, "If anybody ever finds this." Um, and you know, looking back now it wasn't that bad, but when you're so secretive- Yes ...

20:25

[00 21:02.776 – 00:21:09.696] with everything in your life, you know, maybe things I did, but also just f- with the feelings.

20:32

[00 21:09.696 – 00:21:10.186] Yeah.

20:33

[00 21:10.186 – 00:21:19.436] Like, you, you wear the suit of armor all the time, you know, nobody can hurt me and that kind of thing, and now I'm putting these things down on paper.

20:44

[00 21:19.436 – 00:21:21.416] I didn't want anyone to read it.

20:46

[00 21:21.416 – 00:21:23.496] My kids couldn't even read, they were so little.

20:50

[00 21:23.496 – 00:21:25.896] But I didn't, I would set a trap.

20:53

[00 21:25.896 – 00:21:26.396] I was set.

20:54

[00 21:26.396 – 00:21:30.926] I thought, "Nobody can ever see this." Well, I think, and we're s- And, um, oh ...

21:00

[00 21:30.926 – 00:21:37.996] we're s- As long as, uh, we're on this, I was given a date when it was time for me to- Ah, that's right ...

21:09

[00 21:37.996 – 00:21:40.776] so this is when you have to do it.

21:12

[00 21:40.776 – 00:21:43.576] So I woke up that...

21:14

[00 21:43.576 – 00:21:46.796] It, it wouldn't get done otherwise, you know?

21:17

[00 21:46.796 – 00:21:52.696] So I woke up that morning and I just thought, "There's no way I can read this to another person.

21:24

[00 21:52.696 – 00:22:02.696] Absolutely no way." And I called her up and I said, "I'm not gonna do it." And, um, she tried to talk to me about it and

21:34

[00 22:02.696 – 00:22:08.196] I said, "I'm not gonna do it." I know now, I didn't know then, I was terrified.

21:40

[00 22:08.196 – 00:22:12.636] As I mentioned, you know, just a minute ago, I, I couldn't talk about this stuff.

21:46

[00 22:12.636 – 00:22:14.156] It was too hard.

21:48

[00 22:14.156 – 00:22:24.336] And so then I hung up and I called some of my friends and I thought, you know, I wanted to convince them that she wasn't the right sponsor for me and perhaps

21:59

[00 22:24.336 – 00:22:25.736] I should get somebody else.

22:02

[00 22:25.736 – 00:22:29.376] And I, uh, I ended up calling her back that day.

22:06

[00 22:29.376 – 00:22:30.296] I cried.

22:07

[00 22:30.296 – 00:22:33.416] I, I was really upset that I couldn't do it.

22:10

[00 22:33.416 – 00:22:42.716] I knew I needed to do it, I should do it, but I was terrified, and I did call her back, and then we, we met and, and I did do it.

22:22

[00 22:42.716 – 00:22:47.416] Well, I think we're not just secretive, but we're so afraid.

22:26

[00 22:47.416 – 00:22:47.986] Mm-hmm.

22:27

[00 22:47.986 – 00:22:56.096] I mean, I, I was afraid that they weren't, that the steps weren't gonna work for me, but I was also afraid that the steps were gonna work for me.

22:37

[00 22:56.096 – 00:23:01.656] So it was that, you know, that confusion about- Mm-hmm ...

22:41

[00 23:01.656 – 00:23:02.836] how do I really...

22:43

[00 23:02.836 – 00:23:12.876] It's in the book where it talks about we either take a spiritual path or we die an alcoholic death, and it's like, "Well, how bad of an alcoholic death

22:53

[00 23:12.876 – 00:23:14.796] are we really talking about?" Mm-hmm.

22:56

[00 23:14.796 – 00:23:20.155] So- You know, you, you asked about p- somebody taking me through the book and all that.

23:02

[00 23:20.155 – 00:23:23.396] I, I wasn't a very good student at all in school.

23:06

[00 23:23.396 – 00:23:24.816] I barely made it through.

23:08

[00 23:24.816 – 00:23:26.356] I didn't care.

23:09

[00 23:26.356 – 00:23:32.576] Um, I'm, I'm not really scholastic, um, if that's the right way to put it.

23:15

[00 23:32.576 – 00:23:42.616] And so, um, you know, I just wanna do, do the work, but, um, to read

23:21

[00 23:42.616 – 00:23:45.296] the book and to try to figure it all out in the book.

23:26

[00 23:45.296 – 00:23:49.516] I love the book now, but I didn't get into the book.

23:30

[00 23:49.516 – 00:23:50.516] Right.

23:31

[00 23:50.516 – 00:23:51.536] Right.

23:31

[00 23:51.536 – 00:23:52.636] Yeah.

23:32

[00 23:52.636 – 00:23:56.716] So, um, do you mem- remember what, um...

23:35

[00 23:56.716 – 00:23:59.796] So you did your fifth step with her.

23:38

[00 23:59.796 – 00:24:03.916] H- Let's talk about that, 'cause you've talked about that apprehension.

23:42

[00 24:03.916 – 00:24:05.716] How was it doing that fifth step?

23:45

[00 24:05.716 – 00:24:15.836] Those things that we think are such big deals when we're new and, you know, when we're older it's like, "Really?" But, um, how was it

23:54

[00 24:15.836 – 00:24:20.616] doing the fifth step with her, be- being able to sit down and share that stuff?

24:00

[00 24:20.616 – 00:24:30.676] Well, you know, I wish I could remember exactly the moment, but I think I just said, "Okay, I, I mean, I have to do this," and I just, page after page, I just

24:12

[00 24:30.676 – 00:24:31.736] read what I wrote.

24:14

[00 24:31.736 – 00:24:32.136] Mm.

24:15

[00 24:32.136 – 00:24:34.896] And I probably wasn't even thinking about it.

24:18

[00 24:34.896 – 00:24:36.836] You know, I just kept reading and reading.

24:21

[00 24:36.836 – 00:24:42.616] I've done several, you know, I think we all do over the years, but, um...

24:26

[00 24:42.616 – 00:24:52.676] And, and then, um, you know, and, and you, y- so it's, you know, she said, "Well, now you just go home and, you know, you, um, you know, ask

24:37

[00 24:52.676 – 00:24:58.636] that your character defects be removed." And I w- um, Penny, I was in a fog for years.

24:43

[00 24:58.636 – 00:25:01.336] I really believe I was just in a fog.

24:47

[00 25:01.336 – 00:25:11.416] I went to meetings, um, every day a- and, um, you know, I tried sponsoring people and I had the kids

24:54

[00 25:11.416 – 00:25:21.516] at home and, um, but I, I loved Alcoholics Anonymous, but I, my thing was sitting in coffee shops with my friends after the meetings

25:03

[00 25:21.516 – 00:25:22.976] and talking to them.

25:05

[00 25:22.976 – 00:25:28.825] So I think before I read all that to my sponsor, I had probably tried a lot of it out on my friends.

25:13

[00 25:28.825 – 00:25:38.956] Well, you know, one of the things that our friend Pat always suggests is, um, to, to get a sobriety date, to get a sponsor, to get a home

25:24

[00 25:38.956 – 00:25:40.276] group, and to get a friend.

25:26

[00 25:40.276 – 00:25:50.456] And when I tell people that, I always say, "You want somebody that you can call up before you talk to your sponsor and, and talk to your friend

25:36

[00 25:50.456 – 00:25:55.896] so that she can say, 'You're gonna tell her what?'" Absolutely.

25:41

[00 25:55.896 – 00:25:57.036] Yeah.

25:41

[00 25:57.036 – 00:25:58.376] Yeah.

25:42

[00 25:58.376 – 00:26:03.016] So, uh, do you remember what your first service commitment was in Alcoholics Anonymous?

25:47

[00 26:03.016 – 00:26:03.736] No.

25:48

[00 26:03.736 – 00:26:11.796] Um, um, well, I mean, I took commitments at meetings.

25:52

[00 26:11.796 – 00:26:17.556] You know, just so when you say service, you're- Yeah, no, that's really what I'm talking about.

25:58

[00 26:17.556 – 00:26:17.766] Oh.

25:59

[00 26:17.766 – 00:26:19.096] Did you wash coffee cups?

26:01

[00 26:19.096 – 00:26:24.426] Did you- Oh, we washed the coffee cups at, uh, 26th and Broadway.

26:05

[00 26:24.426 – 00:26:28.696] They were all, yeah, we would, you, and, um, there.

26:09

[00 26:28.696 – 00:26:38.716] And I mean, and I always, I had the toilet paper commitment at a meeting and, and, um, you know, I, I always had commitments like that, but I don't remember

26:20

[00 26:38.716 – 00:26:40.936] my very first commitment.

26:22

[00 26:40.936 – 00:26:41.736] Okay.

26:23

[00 26:41.736 – 00:26:44.716] So you said that you grew up Catholic.

26:26

[00 26:44.716 – 00:26:49.476] Um, did you struggle at all with a higher power when you got here?

26:31

[00 26:49.476 – 00:26:54.056] Or what was, what was, what's that journey been like?

26:35

[00 26:54.056 – 00:26:57.056] Yeah, I sure did struggle a lot.

26:37

[00 26:57.056 – 00:27:07.676] And, um, because I did go to Catholic school for 10 years, and my mother was pretty rigid about us going to church.

26:45

[00 27:07.676 – 00:27:16.256] And, um, and you know, uh, and it, it was funny at our house, 'cause there was a lot of yelling and screaming going on.

26:54

[00 27:16.256 – 00:27:21.455] Everybody, you know, and a lot of swearing, and, "Get ready for church, we're gonna be late," and then we'd go to church.

27:02

[00 27:21.455 – 00:27:27.336] And, um, so she was actually very rigid and, you know, very religious.

27:07

[00 27:27.336 – 00:27:32.466] And so I went to Catholic school for, um, 10 years, and I was in-

27:12

[00 27:32.627 – 00:27:36.577] in Catholic high school, and I had to leave because I got pregnant.

27:17

[00 27:36.577 – 00:27:39.617] And it was curious, because I didn't have a boyfriend.

27:21

[00 27:39.617 – 00:27:44.057] So, um, It was a shock to my family.

27:24

[00 27:44.057 – 00:27:54.077] And, um, and, you know, I felt then like God, you know, watched me sneak out of my house in the middle

27:32

[00 27:54.077 – 00:28:04.697] of the night and go have sex for the first time in my life, and said, "You're a bad girl, so here's, you're gonna, you know, here's your punishment." And

27:43

[00 28:04.697 – 00:28:14.057] quickly I'll tell you, um, 13 years ago or 14 years ago, that baby found me, and we, he was here last weekend.

27:50

[00 28:14.057 – 00:28:16.977] We were walking at the beach together and yeah.

27:54

[00 28:16.977 – 00:28:19.457] I've, I've heard you share that- Yeah ...

27:57

[00 28:19.457 – 00:28:22.537] story from the podium, and it just- Yeah ...

28:00

[00 28:22.537 – 00:28:25.977] I always have to have a hanky when I listen to you and my f- And ...

28:06

[00 28:25.977 – 00:28:27.377] and Pat and Kenneth speak.

28:08

[00 28:27.377 – 00:28:29.877] It's just- That's God coming back.

28:10

[00 28:29.877 – 00:28:39.917] It's like He, I, when He, when I got the letter from Tom, my husband had died a year before, and we both felt like God said, "Here,

28:20

[00 28:39.917 – 00:28:44.327] I have a present for you," and put him in my life, um.

28:25

[00 28:44.327 – 00:28:49.057] Can, can you ta- would you be willing to talk about that a little bit, about him coming back into your life?

28:33

[00 28:49.057 – 00:28:50.937] Yes, absolutely.

28:34

[00 28:50.937 – 00:28:56.897] Now, um, I didn't mention, the three kids that I had, the three boys that I had were adopted.

28:41

[00 28:56.897 – 00:28:59.357] And, 'cause then I couldn't get pregnant.

28:43

[00 28:59.357 – 00:29:02.197] So we had twins and another boy.

28:46

[00 29:02.197 – 00:29:12.427] And so, um, uh, over the years then, as my life went on, I would think about the baby I gave up for adoption, and I would think about

28:56

[00 29:12.427 – 00:29:16.597] maybe trying to find him, and I would say to myself, "Leave him alone.

29:01

[00 29:16.597 – 00:29:22.037] He has par- he has a mother and a father," because, you know, I have these other kids.

29:08

[00 29:22.037 – 00:29:25.397] And he has a mother and a father, why, why don't you just leave him alone?

29:14

[00 29:25.397 – 00:29:26.077] And I would.

29:15

[00 29:26.077 – 00:29:28.017] I never tried to look for him.

29:18

[00 29:28.017 – 00:29:38.277] And so, um, my husband Ed died in 2012, and toward the end of 2012, and in two, early

29:24

[00 29:38.277 – 00:29:41.976] 2014, I got this letter in the mail.

29:27

[00 29:41.976 – 00:29:49.077] And it was the most beautiful letter about, uh, "I don't wanna hurt you or upset you in any way.

29:34

[00 29:49.077 – 00:29:59.117] Um, I just wanna thank you for what you did, and, you know, you would be proud," and it was this most beautiful letter, and I didn't know who it w- I didn't

29:46

[00 29:59.117 – 00:29:59.757] know him.

29:47

[00 29:59.757 – 00:30:04.957] I'm like, "Who's Tom and what did I do?" And, uh, it kinda scared me in the beginning.

29:53

[00 30:04.957 – 00:30:09.677] And, and then at the end, I finally figured out this is from the baby.

29:59

[00 30:09.677 – 00:30:19.977] And so, um, it's kind of funny because I had an appointment to go to the Red Cross, and I really wanted to look him up, but because of AA

30:09

[00 30:19.977 – 00:30:23.637] and the training that I got, you don't ever be late for your appointments.

30:15

[00 30:23.637 – 00:30:25.557] You keep your commitments.

30:16

[00 30:25.557 – 00:30:32.397] And so I drove to the Red Cross, that's where I was going, and, uh, but I called one of my sponsees.

30:24

[00 30:32.397 – 00:30:34.357] I was living in Minneapolis at the time.

30:27

[00 30:34.357 – 00:30:44.357] I said, "You won't believe this letter," and then I told her his name, and then she called me before I got to where I was going and she said, "He's really handsome." She found

30:40

[00 30:44.357 – 00:30:47.277] him out on the internet.

30:42

[00 30:47.277 – 00:30:51.937] And, um, so I still couldn't look till I finished my appointment.

30:46

[00 30:51.937 – 00:30:59.557] Yeah, and, um, he's wonderful, and, uh, such a gift in my life.

30:51

[00 30:59.557 – 00:31:00.157] Yeah.

30:52

[00 31:00.157 – 00:31:02.037] That's just amazing.

30:53

[00 31:02.037 – 00:31:02.227] Yeah.

30:54

[00 31:02.227 – 00:31:03.077] That's wonderful.

30:55

[00 31:03.077 – 00:31:12.437] Now, you mentioned that you have siblings that are also alcoholics, but didn't, um, didn't some of your family members got sober in AA?

31:03

[00 31:12.437 – 00:31:17.797] Yeah, and, um, my, um, yeah.

31:06

[00 31:17.797 – 00:31:26.857] I, my sister is probably listening to me right now, and, um, I would really like to talk about that 12-step call if I can.

31:15

[00 31:26.857 – 00:31:28.176] Oh, I'd love that.

31:16

[00 31:28.176 – 00:31:38.347] 'Cause 12, I was thinking about this interview, and I did listen to some of your other ones, and I thought, "Well, I don't know, you know, really, you know, what to share,"

31:28

[00 31:38.347 – 00:31:43.857] because a lot of your interviews, you ended up talking about general service, which I've never done.

31:34

[00 31:43.857 – 00:31:48.307] And, but I thought, "But this is what God has wanted me to do." Yes.

31:39

[00 31:48.307 – 00:31:54.417] And I sponsor a lot of people, and I love them, and my life is so full because of them.

31:47

[00 31:54.417 – 00:32:04.596] So, um, a little over 25 years ago, I was living in Minneapolis, and my sister's soon-to-be husband, um,

31:53

[00 32:04.597 – 00:32:14.617] sent me an email and he said, "Your sister's drinking round the clock, and if she doesn't stop, I'm gonna have to ask her to leave." Now, we hadn't really talked, so

32:04

[00 32:14.617 – 00:32:18.557] I didn't know this about her, and we were in different states.

32:09

[00 32:18.557 – 00:32:29.117] And so the reason I like to tell this story is because I believe that we have to get here with the gift of desperation.

32:18

[00 32:29.117 – 00:32:39.177] And, um, and so I didn't go running out to California and, "I'm gonna save my sister." So I

32:25

[00 32:39.177 – 00:32:42.277] tried calling her the next morning and she wouldn't answer.

32:28

[00 32:42.277 – 00:32:43.117] So I...

32:29

[00 32:43.117 – 00:32:47.977] And talking about God again, boy, has that ever evolved over the years.

32:34

[00 32:47.977 – 00:32:50.477] I mean, I just ask God everything now.

32:37

[00 32:50.477 – 00:32:53.197] But it's a different God than I had, you know?

32:41

[00 32:53.197 – 00:32:59.717] So I sat down and I wrote a letter to her, um, uh, because she's a newcomer.

32:47

[00 32:59.717 – 00:33:04.157] S- not, not my sister, this is a newcomer, a sick, suffering woman.

32:52

[00 33:04.157 – 00:33:09.037] And, um, I just described how she felt.

32:55

[00 33:09.037 – 00:33:16.357] You know, the, the, the loneliness and the despair and the hopelessness and all of that, and I put it in the letter.

33:03

[00 33:16.357 – 00:33:24.377] And then I worked for an airline, and I put in a coupon that could be, um, traded in for a ticket.

33:11

[00 33:24.377 – 00:33:34.797] And I said, "If you come here, you know, uh, I can help you, and I have a lot of friends here, and we can help you." And I FedExed

33:22

[00 33:34.797 – 00:33:35.057] it.

33:23

[00 33:35.057 – 00:33:38.557] So I knew it would get there at 12 o'clock the next day.

33:27

[00 33:38.557 – 00:33:44.117] And at 12 o'clock, my phone rang, and it was my sister, and she was crying.

33:33

[00 33:44.117 – 00:33:47.057] And I was so happy.

33:35

[00 33:47.057 – 00:33:50.837] And so we made a plan.

33:37

[00 33:50.837 – 00:33:55.597] Then I said, uh, she at that time lived in, in Fresno.

33:41

[00 33:55.597 – 00:34:04.597] And so we made a plan that, um, again, I wasn't gonna run there, uh, you know, and hold her hand and take her to a meeting.

33:51

[00 34:04.597 – 00:34:14.737] So I said, "I'll come out to LA, but you've gotta meet me." And so, um, she didn't really like to travel, and s- but she took a train

34:01

[00 34:14.737 – 00:34:15.377] and a bus.

34:03

[00 34:15.377 – 00:34:25.447] And, um, my husband Ed and I met her when she got off the bus, and she called me on, she said, "Can I drink?" And I said, "Yes, but

34:13

[00 34:25.447 – 00:34:25.557] ju-

34:14

[00 34:25.692 – 00:34:28.311] Don't get so drunk that you miss the train or the bus.

34:19

[00 34:28.311 – 00:34:32.452] So for the next three days, we stayed together.

34:22

[00 34:32.452 – 00:34:36.972] Monday night, we went to a, a speaker meeting in Long Beach.

34:26

[00 34:36.972 – 00:34:42.592] Actually, I was scheduled to speak, and so she went, my husband went, another couple went.

34:32

[00 34:42.592 – 00:34:49.811] And when they said, "Are there..." I didn't, I didn't give her any instructions, and when they said, "Are there any newcomers?" She stood up.

34:41

[00 34:49.811 – 00:34:52.722] And, um, yeah, that's what I did.

34:44

[00 34:52.722 – 00:35:02.912] And, um, Tuesday night we went to a book study, and Wednesday night the Pacific Group, and then Joe had driven down and he picked

34:53

[00 35:02.912 – 00:35:03.311] her up.

34:54

[00 35:03.311 – 00:35:09.351] And I said, "Now you go back and you call the central office and you ask them where there's a meeting.

35:01

[00 35:09.351 – 00:35:19.172] And if you go to that meeting and you don't like it, you find another meeting." And that's what she did, and she, she just celebrated 25 years.

35:11

[00 35:19.172 – 00:35:21.081] Oh, that's- Yeah ...

35:12

[00 35:21.081 – 00:35:22.092] wonderful.

35:13

[00 35:22.092 – 00:35:22.331] Yeah.

35:14

[00 35:22.331 – 00:35:23.101] That's wonderful.

35:15

[00 35:23.101 – 00:35:26.172] Well, if she's online, congratulations, happy birthday.

35:18

[00 35:26.172 – 00:35:26.722] Yeah.

35:18

[00 35:26.722 – 00:35:27.572] We're glad to have you.

35:20

[00 35:27.572 – 00:35:30.351] Uh, and your brothers also got sober?

35:23

[00 35:30.351 – 00:35:31.572] Well, no.

35:24

[00 35:31.572 – 00:35:32.912] No.

35:25

[00 35:32.912 – 00:35:37.692] Um, I have five brothers, and the youngest one was the best.

35:29

[00 35:37.692 – 00:35:43.472] He was the good AA guy, and unfortunately he died about, I guess it's been nine years ago.

35:36

[00 35:43.472 – 00:35:45.211] He was the youngest of the guys.

35:38

[00 35:45.211 – 00:35:48.052] But, um, so let's see.

35:41

[00 35:48.052 – 00:35:55.952] All of them, John, Terry, Patrick, Dennis, they've all come to AA, but they didn't like you.

35:47

[00 35:55.952 – 00:35:58.552] You did something to offend them.

35:49

[00 35:58.552 – 00:36:03.382] You know you- So, so- I understand ...

35:52

[00 36:03.382 – 00:36:09.692] so they don't drink alcohol, but they're not, you know, they do other stuff.

35:57

[00 36:09.692 – 00:36:15.851] So, uh, but you know, I love 'em, and I just l- leave 'em alone.

36:02

[00 36:15.851 – 00:36:21.592] Well, I'm so grateful that your sister got sober.

36:06

[00 36:21.592 – 00:36:25.771] My sister died of our disease, so- Mm ...

36:09

[00 36:25.771 – 00:36:28.452] I love hearing that, uh, that part of your story.

36:13

[00 36:28.452 – 00:36:37.492] Um, so, um, so what has the journey been like as you've stayed sober?

36:18

[00 36:37.492 – 00:36:41.831] I know that you've, um, you s- you've done some speaking.

36:22

[00 36:41.831 – 00:36:46.152] Um, you, uh, you're active in sponsorship.

36:25

[00 36:46.152 – 00:36:51.152] Um, what did, uh, what did some early amends look like?

36:29

[00 36:51.152 – 00:37:01.412] And were there any that, that really stick out to you that you did that, um, you just have, you know, it was kind of a spiritual awakening

36:39

[00 37:01.412 – 00:37:03.552] or an aha moment or something?

36:41

[00 37:03.552 – 00:37:07.851] I don't think I had early amends because I thought everybody was hurting me.

36:46

[00 37:07.851 – 00:37:18.032] And so, um, yeah, looking back, you know, um, our mother is, she was a force to be reckoned with, there's no doubt

36:55

[00 37:18.032 – 00:37:18.692] about that.

36:56

[00 37:18.692 – 00:37:22.851] So, but I remember one time I tw- was, was talking to my father.

37:01

[00 37:22.851 – 00:37:32.912] Oh, this is kind of cool because, um, my father, you know, he had a drinking problem, and my mother always blamed him for the reason that

37:10

[00 37:32.912 – 00:37:34.512] all seven of us drank.

37:12

[00 37:34.512 – 00:37:44.532] And so when I got sober, um, I got to take my father to meetings, and he found out about this is a disease, and alcoholism,

37:22

[00 37:44.532 – 00:37:47.032] and he passed away about six months after that.

37:25

[00 37:47.032 – 00:37:57.092] But before that, I remember going to him one time, and I thought that I was saying I was sorry for things that I did, but all I was doing was telling him

37:37

[00 37:57.092 – 00:38:00.791] all the bad things I did, and he asked me to stop talking.

37:42

[00 38:00.791 – 00:38:11.092] So, um, my kids were so young, you know, I mean, but to this day, you know, I've talked to them

37:49

[00 38:11.092 – 00:38:12.791] many times, you know?

37:51

[00 38:12.791 – 00:38:13.892] Because- Mm-hmm ...

37:52

[00 38:13.892 – 00:38:23.912] I, once I came into AA, I was all in, and I was, you know, it's pretty much been my life, meetings all the time, and panels, activities, whatever it

38:03

[00 38:23.912 – 00:38:24.932] is that we do.

38:04

[00 38:24.932 – 00:38:34.972] And but they grew up, they had, um, I always had AA people over and, um, and so, you know, they, they, they grew up

38:13

[00 38:34.972 – 00:38:36.331] around all the alcoholics.

38:15

[00 38:36.331 – 00:38:40.452] And they t- I think they've all said, "Okay, we, it's okay.

38:19

[00 38:40.452 – 00:38:45.631] You don't need to, you know, say you're sorry anymore," or, you know, I wish- Mm-hmm ...

38:25

[00 38:45.631 – 00:38:49.351] I tell 'em, "I wish it had been different," is what I say to them.

38:31

[00 38:49.351 – 00:38:59.711] And then, um, one amend that I made, um, in m- you know, later on in my sobriety was to, um, I had a s- a first husband,

38:41

[00 38:59.711 – 00:39:01.652] a second husband, and a third husband.

38:43

[00 39:01.652 – 00:39:09.592] And, um, the, by the way, my first husband and I are, we're very good friends, and he's married to his soulmate.

38:51

[00 39:09.592 – 00:39:12.262] And, uh, we're good friends.

38:53

[00 39:12.262 – 00:39:13.461] We hang out together.

38:55

[00 39:13.461 – 00:39:19.512] I spend weekends with them and, and, uh, so, you know, that's really wonderful.

39:00

[00 39:19.512 – 00:39:21.731] And he's, he's also come into AA.

39:03

[00 39:21.731 – 00:39:27.192] Um, my second husband, that was a terrible marriage for both of us.

39:08

[00 39:27.192 – 00:39:33.432] It was about three-year marriage, and Pat can attest to it because she witnessed a little bit of it.

39:15

[00 39:33.432 – 00:39:38.391] And, um, w- it got a little violent.

39:18

[00 39:38.391 – 00:39:45.650] It could have been worse, but, um, but it was, it was a, it wasn't a good marriage at all.

39:25

[00 39:45.650 – 00:39:55.771] And, um, I blamed him for a lot of things, and there were some things that were legitimate that I could, y- you know, pin on

39:34

[00 39:55.771 – 00:39:56.112] him.

39:35

[00 39:56.112 – 00:40:06.652] However, um, I ended the marriage by, um, the m- the boys lived with us and then I, and then they went to live with Joe and his wife Patty.

39:45

[00 40:06.652 – 00:40:17.112] And, um, and I sponsored about 20 women at the time, and I thought I was having a nervous breakdown trying to make this marriage work,

39:54

[00 40:17.112 – 00:40:18.731] and it wasn't working.

39:56

[00 40:18.731 – 00:40:28.731] And, um, I bought a one-way ticket to Hawaii 'cause a couple of my brothers had moved there, and if you're gonna have a breakdown, go there.

40:06

[00 40:28.731 – 00:40:33.832] And I, um, wrote notes to all the women I sponsored.

40:10

[00 40:33.832 – 00:40:36.112] Clancy was my sponsor by this time.

40:13

[00 40:36.112 – 00:40:38.291] I wrote him a note, "I'm leaving.

40:15

[00 40:38.291 – 00:40:39.592] I'm never coming back.

40:17

[00 40:39.592 – 00:40:42.532] I'm having a breakdown." Basically, that was it.

40:20

[00 40:42.532 – 00:40:44.072] And I mailed them.

40:22

[00 40:44.072 – 00:40:47.592] And I got on the airplane, and I went to Hawaii.

40:26

[00 40:47.592 – 00:40:52.932] Um, for, um, um, I went straight to AA.

40:29

[00 40:52.932 – 00:40:57.271] I met, you know, the AA people there right away.

40:33

[00 40:57.271 – 00:41:01.791] They were having a big convention halfway up one of the big mountains, and they took me.

40:39

[00 41:01.791 – 00:41:05.632] And, you know, they didn't know me, but yet they did, right?

40:44

[00 41:05.632 – 00:41:12.391] And so they made me this beautiful head lei, and we went to this, you know, little camp out kind of thing.

40:52

[00 41:12.391 – 00:41:18.541] So while I was in Hawaii for eight months, I did, I worked, and I had several jobs and-

40:59

[00 41:18.786 – 00:41:20.366] And but I did a lot of writing.

41:02

[00 41:20.366 – 00:41:24.646] Writing had become very therapeutic for me in my sobriety.

41:05

[00 41:24.646 – 00:41:28.226] That's the way I could get things out when I didn't really know what was going on.

41:12

[00 41:28.226 – 00:41:34.496] And I did a lot of writing and writing and writing, and I stayed for eight months, and then I went back.

41:20

[00 41:34.496 – 00:41:44.546] And, uh, my second husband's name was Tom, and he, um, told me that everything I left behind had got w- it was stolen,

41:28

[00 41:44.546 – 00:41:45.786] so I had nothing.

41:30

[00 41:45.786 – 00:41:55.806] And, um, I was able to invite him to go to lunch, and I made amends to him for leaving the way that I

41:38

[00 41:55.806 – 00:42:02.086] did, without pointing my finger at him and naming everything he had done.

41:43

[00 42:02.086 – 00:42:09.026] And I f- I mean, I was 12, 13 years sober by that time, but I, it felt so good.

41:50

[00 42:09.026 – 00:42:15.976] I can remember that feeling of not having to say, "But you know what you did." Nope.

41:56

[00 42:15.976 – 00:42:25.986] And even though, you know, all my stuff was gone and I had come back from Hawaii, I didn't have, I didn't have the kids, I didn't have a place to

42:07

[00 42:25.986 – 00:42:28.706] live, I had no money, I had no car, I had no job.

42:12

[00 42:28.706 – 00:42:32.106] So you could say I became homeless in my sobriety.

42:15

[00 42:32.106 – 00:42:35.786] I stood outside of LAX and I thought, "What have I done now?

42:20

[00 42:35.786 – 00:42:45.826] I just dug another big hole." And, um, and y- and I actually said to myself, you know, "Look at Pat and look at Susie, what

42:29

[00 42:45.826 – 00:42:48.246] they're doing, and here I am one more time.

42:33

[00 42:48.246 – 00:42:56.306] I've made a big mess." But I had to learn to let people help me, and I stayed at a lady, I barely knew her.

42:42

[00 42:56.306 – 00:42:59.766] I stayed with her, and I showed up to the meetings.

42:46

[00 42:59.766 – 00:43:08.146] And, um, even though I think I felt embarrassed and, you know, kind of ashamed, but I went to the meetings.

42:54

[00 43:08.146 – 00:43:09.036] Wow.

42:54

[00 43:09.036 – 00:43:11.886] And so, yeah.

42:56

[00 43:11.886 – 00:43:20.606] I mean, I, I love, I mean, I, you know, those things are, they were hard at the time, but I know that they made me what I am today.

43:06

[00 43:20.606 – 00:43:26.526] And, um, and I w- you know, I really wouldn't trade any of that.

43:11

[00 43:26.526 – 00:43:27.646] Yeah.

43:12

[00 43:27.646 – 00:43:31.516] So that would've been in the mid-1980s that you were in Hawaii.

43:17

[00 43:31.516 – 00:43:32.446] Yeah, that's right.

43:18

[00 43:32.446 – 00:43:33.356] Yeah.

43:19

[00 43:33.356 – 00:43:33.356] Yeah.

43:20

[00 43:33.356 – 00:43:36.826] 'Cause I g- I got sober in 1977 in Hawaii.

43:23

[00 43:36.826 – 00:43:37.606] Oh.

43:24

[00 43:37.606 – 00:43:40.966] And, and m- I have a story similar to yours.

43:27

[00 43:40.966 – 00:43:51.086] I, um, uh, I've always identified with you when I've heard you speak at a conference or, um, a speaker meeting because I have, um, a s- I

43:37

[00 43:51.086 – 00:43:55.546] walked a similar path, just a little behind you, so.

43:41

[00 43:55.546 – 00:44:05.746] Um, I've always appreciated the message you carry because it's always given me hope, and it helps me to see, um, how God has worked in my life-

43:51

[00 44:05.746 – 00:44:05.816] Yeah ...

43:52

[00 44:05.816 – 00:44:09.186] and that all of that combines to bring me where I am today.

43:57

[00 44:09.186 – 00:44:10.166] Absolutely.

43:57

[00 44:10.166 – 00:44:11.156] And Kenneth- So- ...

43:59

[00 44:11.156 – 00:44:12.646] got sober in Hawaii ...

44:00

[00 44:12.646 – 00:44:13.066] yes.

44:01

[00 44:13.066 – 00:44:13.866] Yes.

44:02

[00 44:13.866 – 00:44:24.246] So, um, I do wanna open it up for questions, 'cause I know that you have some friends and some sponsees online, and they may have some questions that they'd like you to answer

44:14

[00 44:24.246 – 00:44:29.326] or a story or two that they enjoy hearing you share that they'd like you to tell.

44:20

[00 44:29.326 – 00:44:40.106] But before we do that, is there anything that, um, you would like to talk about with regard to, um, the journey that you've had, um,

44:29

[00 44:40.106 – 00:44:46.186] you know, the adventure so far, as it says in our big book, um, that you'd like to share with the group?

44:37

[00 44:46.186 – 00:44:55.766] Well, um, you know, I mentioned, I, that working with others has always been what has worked for me.

44:44

[00 44:55.766 – 00:45:01.046] And, um, I mean, this is just a, I'll tell a, a quick story.

44:49

[00 45:01.046 – 00:45:11.066] It's real- really the first p- person that I sponsored that, um, her name was Johanna, a little German woman, and I was rushing on a Saturday night to go to the

45:00

[00 45:11.066 – 00:45:14.596] meeting, and I, and I got a phone call from central office.

45:05

[00 45:14.596 – 00:45:17.506] That's where we used to get f- 12 step calls.

45:08

[00 45:17.506 – 00:45:18.096] Yes.

45:09

[00 45:18.096 – 00:45:28.146] And, um, I called this lady, and I had my kids and I was trying to get a babysitter, and I never had any money, and I thought, "Why me?" And, um, I called her and I said,

45:22

[00 45:28.146 – 00:45:28.966] "My name's Nancy.

45:24

[00 45:28.966 – 00:45:29.786] I'm an alcoholic.

45:25

[00 45:29.786 – 00:45:30.826] I'm going to a meeting.

45:27

[00 45:30.826 – 00:45:39.945] If you wanna go, fine, and if you don't wanna go, that's fine too." So I guess there's like no perfect way to do a 12 step call, right?

45:37

[00 45:39.945 – 00:45:43.386] Because she said, "Okay, I'll go," and I went and picked her up.

45:42

[00 45:43.386 – 00:45:53.466] I took her to the meeting in Santa Monica, and we stayed together until she died, which was many, many years later, and I just loved her so

45:52

[00 45:53.466 – 00:45:53.786] much.

45:53

[00 45:53.786 – 00:46:00.966] So, um, again, that, that's what God, you know, has done for me, is put all these people in my life.

46:00

[00 46:00.966 – 00:46:01.626] What else did...

46:02

[00 46:01.626 – 00:46:03.406] Oh, okay.

46:03

[00 46:03.406 – 00:46:13.466] This is, um, I, when I was around, um, 10 years sober, I guess, somewhere, I, you know, time, um, uh, I

46:10

[00 46:13.466 – 00:46:17.486] got a lady that was in our group who was a teacher at a Catholic school.

46:16

[00 46:17.486 – 00:46:27.546] She said, "I'm giving your number to Sister Sheila." And I said, "Don't give my number to any Catholic sisters, please." It, it, it was for a 12 step

46:26

[00 46:27.546 – 00:46:28.446] call.

46:27

[00 46:28.446 – 00:46:31.156] "Please don't do that." Her name was Lucy.

46:30

[00 46:31.156 – 00:46:33.286] Okay, so I'm at work.

46:32

[00 46:33.286 – 00:46:35.186] I mean, you asked about Catholic school.

46:34

[00 46:35.186 – 00:46:36.166] I mean- Yeah ...

46:36

[00 46:36.166 – 00:46:37.586] I could barely, "Yes, Sister.

46:38

[00 46:37.586 – 00:46:40.286] No, Sister," you know, stand up and sit down.

46:41

[00 46:40.286 – 00:46:50.366] And so I got a message at work and it said, "Sheila called." And I knew who Sheila was, and I thought, "How can I possibly call this woman back

46:52

[00 46:50.366 – 00:46:59.026] and just say Sheila, because I know she's a Catholic sister?" Well, anyway, I managed to do that somehow, and we made a date.

47:01

[00 46:59.026 – 00:47:00.226] I was gonna pick her up.

47:03

[00 47:00.226 – 00:47:02.226] She, she, it was a 12 step call.

47:06

[00 47:02.226 – 00:47:06.226] And I was at home getting dressed, putting on a dress.

47:10

[00 47:06.226 – 00:47:07.446] I better wear a dress.

47:12

[00 47:07.446 – 00:47:09.166] It's a s- it's a Catholic sister.

47:15

[00 47:09.166 – 00:47:12.226] And then I went and picked her up and she was wearing pants.

47:19

[00 47:12.226 – 00:47:22.586] And, um, but the reason I love, I love this story is because she did her fifth step with me, and

47:27

[00 47:22.586 – 00:47:26.226] she told me things she had never told anybody in her life.

47:31

[00 47:26.226 – 00:47:28.826] Now, she went to confession.

47:33

[00 47:28.826 – 00:47:37.466] She had Catholic priests around her all the time, and she told me things she had never been able to tell anybody because of Alcoholics Anonymous.

47:43

[00 47:37.466 – 00:47:47.986] And in my mind, I thought, "Here I am, a little 15-year-old pregnant schoolgirl who had to leave Catholic school, and she's the principal of the school,

47:52

[00 47:47.986 – 00:47:53.226] and she's sharing these things with me." That moment impacted my life so much.

47:58

[00 47:53.226 – 00:47:53.606] Oh.

47:58

[00 47:53.606 – 00:47:54.566] Yeah.

47:59

[00 47:54.566 – 00:47:54.926] What...

48:00

[00 47:54.926 – 00:47:56.966] Yeah, what an amazing- Yeah ...

48:02

[00 47:56.966 – 00:47:59.325] experience to have- Mm-hmm ...

48:03

[00 47:59.325 – 00:47:59.866] that.

48:04

[00 47:59.866 – 00:48:01.276] And- Yeah ...

48:05

[00 48:01.276 – 00:48:11.576] I mean, isn't it, it's just amazing how our higher power just finds these ways to, it's almost like they're saying, "Okay, are you paying attention?"

48:14

[00 48:12.007 – 00:48:12.887] I've got something.

48:16

[00 48:12.887 – 00:48:15.167] I've g- I've got something for you now.

48:19

[00 48:15.167 – 00:48:16.047] Pay attention.

48:20

[00 48:16.047 – 00:48:17.367] Absolutely.

48:20

[00 48:17.367 – 00:48:18.797] Oh, I love that.

48:22

[00 48:18.797 – 00:48:19.307] It's exciting.

48:23

[00 48:19.307 – 00:48:20.947] You know, I look forward to it.

48:26

[00 48:20.947 – 00:48:21.887] It's- Yeah ...

48:27

[00 48:21.887 – 00:48:24.947] it's very exciting once, once I realized that.

48:30

[00 48:24.947 – 00:48:25.907] Yeah.

48:31

[00 48:25.907 – 00:48:26.107] Yeah.

48:31

[00 48:26.107 – 00:48:27.426] So, yeah.

48:33

[00 48:27.426 – 00:48:29.287] Um, I, I don't...

48:34

[00 48:29.287 – 00:48:29.667] Yeah.

48:35

[00 48:29.667 – 00:48:33.967] I, oh, I have this other kind of weird 12 step call.

48:39

[00 48:33.967 – 00:48:39.867] My kids went to this Lutheran school, 'cause it was close by, so I put them there.

48:45

[00 48:39.867 – 00:48:46.647] And w- and we used to go to Clancy's backyard on the weekends, and, um, and the kids would play.

48:52

[00 48:46.647 – 00:48:54.627] And so they had to write a, a story at school, and they wrote, always wrote about going to Clancy's yard.

49:00

[00 48:54.627 – 00:48:56.687] And the teacher, Mrs.

49:02

[00 48:56.687 – 00:49:00.887] Houdyshell, she said, "Now who's this Clancy guy?

49:05

[00 49:00.887 – 00:49:10.487] Is that one of your uncles?" My son said, "No, he's an alcoholic like my mother." He yelled that out, I guess, 'cause I got called in.

49:14

[00 49:10.487 – 00:49:20.546] Like, "Could you explain this, please?" And her father had a drinking problem, and so she wanted me to bring her some literature

49:23

[00 49:20.547 – 00:49:20.837] then.

49:23

[00 49:20.837 – 00:49:22.507] So- Yeah ...

49:24

[00 49:22.507 – 00:49:22.597] yeah.

49:25

[00 49:22.597 – 00:49:24.827] There are no accidents.

49:27

[00 49:24.827 – 00:49:25.067] No.

49:27

[00 49:25.067 – 00:49:26.477] There are no accidents.

49:29

[00 49:26.477 – 00:49:27.497] No.

49:30

[00 49:27.497 – 00:49:31.927] Well, uh, let's open it up and see if anybody has any questions.

49:35

[00 49:31.927 – 00:49:37.967] Um, I will let everybody know that the, we're in the bottom of the sixth and the score is two to one.

49:42

[00 49:37.967 – 00:49:41.187] Um, outsi- Thank you, Penny ...

49:45

[00 49:41.187 – 00:49:51.267] outside issue, but I have a funny story about, about, uh, the World Series, and, um, I got a call from my dad when I was speaking at the podium

49:55

[00 49:51.267 – 00:49:52.387] with the scores.

49:57

[00 49:52.387 – 00:49:55.117] Oh.

49:57

[00 49:55.117 – 00:50:05.167] So, um, if you've got a question for Nancy, or you know of a favorite story that you'd like to have her share, would you raise your digital hand and we'll, um,

50:09

[00 50:05.167 – 00:50:08.287] we'll call on you to come in and, and ask a question?

50:13

[00 50:08.287 – 00:50:12.867] We've got 68 people in the room.

50:15

[00 50:12.867 – 00:50:15.537] Someone must want to ask a question.

50:18

[00 50:15.537 – 00:50:19.007] And you'll have to raise your digital ha- There we are.

50:22

[00 50:19.007 – 00:50:21.147] Eduardo, would you like to...

50:24

[00 50:21.147 – 00:50:25.587] I'll ask you to unmute, and would you come in and ask Nancy a question?

50:30

[00 50:25.587 – 00:50:29.266] Nancy, it was a delight to hear you.

50:33

[00 50:29.266 – 00:50:30.887] Let me say that first.

50:35

[00 50:30.887 – 00:50:41.107] Um, even the format was a little looser because you were so rich in what you had to share with us of humanity,

50:43

[00 50:41.107 – 00:50:45.467] um, but Penny lets you have your, have kind of the, the head.

50:48

[00 50:45.467 – 00:50:47.067] So like, you know, like- Thank goodness.

50:51

[00 50:47.067 – 00:50:50.187] I didn't want her to ask me any hard questions.

50:55

[00 50:50.187 – 00:51:00.287] Well, she, uh, she, she, she took your cue very well and, uh, she, uh, and, but it was so rich with so

51:03

[00 51:00.287 – 00:51:07.847] much that, um, about, of humanity as well as your, you know, your own personal experience.

51:09

[00 51:07.847 – 00:51:12.267] So what a delight, um, to have you on here.

51:12

[00 51:12.267 – 00:51:15.667] I w- I would be interested in the seven questions.

51:16

[00 51:15.667 – 00:51:21.387] So however we might be able to do that, whether I give you my number or you text me them or something.

51:24

[00 51:21.387 – 00:51:25.467] I will, uh, put my number in the chat or however you want to handle it.

51:30

[00 51:25.467 – 00:51:35.767] And, um, the other is, was it a common practice, 'cause I know Clancy sometimes would have 50 sponsees, and he had a particular

51:38

[00 51:35.767 – 00:51:38.647] way to deal with them that was very unique.

51:42

[00 51:38.647 – 00:51:49.347] Um, and they would have to write letters to him, and then he would read them, and then when they would call him once a week from wherever they were in the country or the world,

51:54

[00 51:49.347 – 00:51:56.547] he'd know what was going on in their life, and he could be very, uh, on point with things and, um, allow him...

52:02

[00 51:56.547 – 00:52:01.867] That was the format I was, um, um, was passed on to me.

52:07

[00 52:01.867 – 00:52:06.907] Was that a common practice to sp- sponsor multiple people in the Pacific Group?

52:12

[00 52:06.907 – 00:52:14.727] Um, um, apparently it was because you said you had like some 20 sponsors when you just said, "I gotta go.

52:20

[00 52:14.727 – 00:52:19.487] This is all too much for me." Not that alone, but all what was going on in your life.

52:27

[00 52:19.487 – 00:52:24.347] Which is not uncommon to have a, a breakdown in, uh, after a period of sobriety.

52:32

[00 52:24.347 – 00:52:27.227] It's more common than, um, one might think.

52:35

[00 52:27.227 – 00:52:29.386] But anyway, I'm, I'm taking a lot of time up.

52:39

[00 52:29.386 – 00:52:37.427] So I'd be interested to hear about, uh, whether it was a common practice in the Pacific Group to sponsor multiple people at once.

52:48

[00 52:37.427 – 00:52:38.627] Thank you so much.

52:49

[00 52:38.627 – 00:52:39.567] Yeah.

52:50

[00 52:39.567 – 00:52:41.127] Thank you, Eduardo.

52:52

[00 52:41.127 – 00:52:45.567] It, it wasn't a common practice or not a common practice.

52:56

[00 52:45.567 – 00:52:50.466] It's like, who, if somebody asks you to sponsor them, say yes.

53:00

[00 52:50.466 – 00:52:58.147] And again, God, I believe that's what the gift that God gives me, is putting a lot of people in my life.

53:08

[00 52:58.147 – 00:53:08.157] The, um, first time I tried to sponsor somebody, I, I said, "Call me tomorrow at 9:30 in the morning," and I, I smoked cigarettes then, and a cup of

53:18

[00 53:08.157 – 00:53:11.147] coffee, and I sat there looking at the phone.

53:22

[00 53:11.147 – 00:53:13.747] She, and she did not call.

53:24

[00 53:13.747 – 00:53:15.447] You know what I re- realized?

53:27

[00 53:15.447 – 00:53:19.867] That gee, I wasn't thinking about myself for five minutes.

53:30

[00 53:19.867 – 00:53:28.607] So, um, it was, you know, you, somebody asked me to sponsor them, I say yes.

53:36

[00 53:28.607 – 00:53:37.887] Um, I lived in California for, you know, the, uh, big chunk of my sobriety, so I, I didn't write letters to Clancy.

53:44

[00 53:37.887 – 00:53:42.427] He mostly did that with his out of town people, but he was so good at it.

53:51

[00 53:42.427 – 00:53:47.927] He could read those letters so quick, and he retained everything, and they would call him, and he would...

53:57

[00 53:47.927 – 00:53:48.857] And that's what I do.

53:59

[00 53:48.857 – 00:53:54.577] I have a sponsor who lives out of town now in Canada, and I email her every Tuesday.

54:06

[00 53:54.577 – 00:53:57.447] I love being accountable, by the way.

54:09

[00 53:57.447 – 00:54:05.447] I, and I email her every Tuesday, and I call her every Wednesday, and I just like, I like the feeling of doing that.

54:17

[00 54:05.447 – 00:54:12.387] So put your number in the chat or just yell it out or whatever, and I'll send you the seven questions.

54:25

[00 54:12.387 – 00:54:21.667] I was talking with a sponsee recently and, who was saying that she had a new sponsee, but that the sponsee hadn't called.

54:33

[00 54:21.667 – 00:54:31.787] And I said, "The best way to stop hearing from newcomers is to say, 'Why, yes, I'd love to sponsor you.'" "Call me on Tuesday at 9:00."

54:43

[00 54:31.787 – 00:54:35.507] Lee, would you like to come in and ask Nancy a question?

54:47

[00 54:35.507 – 00:54:36.947] Sure.

54:48

[00 54:36.947 – 00:54:38.227] Lee, alcoholic.

54:49

[00 54:38.227 – 00:54:39.327] Thank you, Nancy.

54:50

[00 54:39.327 – 00:54:40.927] That was so wonderful.

54:52

[00 54:40.927 – 00:54:42.787] Great, great message.

54:53

[00 54:42.787 – 00:54:43.927] Great stories.

54:54

[00 54:43.927 – 00:54:46.467] And Penny, thanks for interviewing her.

54:57

[00 54:46.467 – 00:54:50.807] And I've been around since, uh, '86.

55:00

[00 54:50.807 – 00:54:55.327] I got sober in '86, and I've never heard of the seven questions.

55:04

[00 54:55.327 – 00:55:01.707] And I'm wondering where they came from, and it, was it, was it before the big book?

55:11

[00 55:01.707 – 00:55:03.917] Was it before the 12 and 12?

55:13

[00 55:03.917 – 00:55:04.937] And where did they come-

55:15

[00 55:05.131 – 00:55:05.131] from?

55:15

[00 55:05.131 – 00:55:08.881] I've never heard of 'em, and I've been here since '86.

55:19

[00 55:08.881 – 00:55:10.401] So thank you very much.

55:21

[00 55:10.401 – 00:55:11.361] Thank you, Lee.

55:23

[00 55:11.361 – 00:55:20.521] I, I don't know where they originated, but I know in the 12 and 12 it does say, I guess it's, um, step four.

55:31

[00 55:20.521 – 00:55:30.561] It must be step four, "Once you've answered these questions." And you're like, "Well, what questions?" But anyway, um, I don't know

55:39

[00 55:30.561 – 00:55:35.581] who first wrote the questions out, so I don't have an answer to that, but I love these.

55:45

[00 55:35.581 – 00:55:41.941] Um, when I look at the chart in the book, m- my brain doesn't...

55:50

[00 55:41.941 – 00:55:52.201] It, it gives me a little anxiety to think, "Well, what, what is this character defect called, and where should I put it?" You know, it's like a test.

56:01

[00 55:52.201 – 00:55:59.261] So, um, these seven questions were just right for me, and they cover everything.

56:06

[00 55:59.261 – 00:56:02.041] I mean, it's up to me to write it all out.

56:10

[00 56:02.041 – 00:56:09.661] Sarah, would you like to come in and, and, uh, ask Nancy a question?

56:15

[00 56:09.661 – 00:56:17.261] Sarah, are you there?

56:17

[00 56:17.261 – 00:56:18.481] Yeah, I'm coming.

56:18

[00 56:18.481 – 00:56:19.001] There you are.

56:19

[00 56:19.001 – 00:56:19.681] Hi.

56:20

[00 56:19.681 – 00:56:21.841] I'm trying to get my camera on, too.

56:23

[00 56:21.841 – 00:56:26.831] I'm on my phone, which I'm, I'm, I've got big thumbs.

56:27

[00 56:26.831 – 00:56:27.821] It doesn't work very well.

56:29

[00 56:27.821 – 00:56:29.391] Hi, everyone.

56:30

[00 56:29.391 – 00:56:30.391] Sarah, alcoholic.

56:31

[00 56:30.391 – 00:56:32.421] Um, Penny, thank you.

56:33

[00 56:32.421 – 00:56:33.141] Good to see you.

56:35

[00 56:33.141 – 00:56:34.881] And Nancy, that was amazing.

56:37

[00 56:34.881 – 00:56:44.960] But the question I have is like, you know, you talk about the sponsorship, and I know for me, like, um, I, I'm like that, too.

56:46

[00 56:44.960 – 00:56:50.881] I've, I've been taught to say yes, and, and, um, and, and then, then I tell God I'm too busy, and then he...

56:54

[00 56:50.881 – 00:56:52.161] You know, my phone rings.

56:57

[00 56:52.161 – 00:56:53.880] Uh, so...

56:58

[00 56:53.880 – 00:56:59.681] But my question is, like, how are you doing s- with sponsorship, if you sponsor a lot of women?

57:04

[00 56:59.681 – 00:57:05.981] Are you using Zoom in sponsorship, or are you all in person, or long distance?

57:10

[00 57:05.981 – 00:57:10.241] Um, I know that for me it's always been long distance, so I don't, I don't know any other way.

57:17

[00 57:10.241 – 00:57:14.321] But, um, well, I do some in person, but very little.

57:21

[00 57:14.321 – 00:57:22.661] But, um, just curious as to how you maintain a, a schedule with, with, um, multiple sponsees like that.

57:28

[00 57:22.661 – 00:57:24.421] Thanks, Sarah.

57:29

[00 57:24.421 – 00:57:27.921] Um, right away I'm gonna say I don't do a Zoom.

57:33

[00 57:27.921 – 00:57:38.521] I've never been able to get it together, nor have I personally had, had the inclination to do, like, a sponsor-sponsee

57:41

[00 57:38.521 – 00:57:39.041] meeting.

57:41

[00 57:39.041 – 00:57:41.641] It just doesn't feel right for me.

57:44

[00 57:41.641 – 00:57:42.121] That's all.

57:45

[00 57:42.121 – 00:57:44.121] I know a lot of people do that.

57:48

[00 57:44.121 – 00:57:46.041] But, um, I...

57:50

[00 57:46.041 – 00:57:52.781] And I lived in Minneapolis for 31 years, and, and did my AA there, so I've got Minneapolis people.

57:56

[00 57:52.781 – 00:57:56.801] When my husband died, I got his guys.

57:59

[00 57:56.801 – 00:58:06.961] Um, I have a man in Scotland that I met at the International in 2020, I mean, um, 2000, and he and his

58:07

[00 58:06.961 – 00:58:12.241] wife, and, um, I sponsored both of them, and she's passed away.

58:11

[00 58:12.241 – 00:58:15.401] And we, we talk on the phone.

58:14

[00 58:15.401 – 00:58:17.601] W- you know, you can use WhatsApp.

58:17

[00 58:17.601 – 00:58:19.241] So everybody is different.

58:19

[00 58:19.241 – 00:58:22.981] And, um, some people send me emails.

58:21

[00 58:22.981 – 00:58:27.261] Some of them do, you know, FaceTime calls.

58:24

[00 58:27.261 – 00:58:32.441] And I have a list of everybody I sponsor, and I look at it, and I'm, I know...

58:31

[00 58:32.441 – 00:58:39.081] I mean, I know what everybody's doing, and you know, that, what's going on in their life.

58:37

[00 58:39.081 – 00:58:42.530] Um, and the, and again- Right ...

58:39

[00 58:42.530 – 00:58:45.161] it's really more for me than, than for them.

58:43

[00 58:45.161 – 00:58:46.281] Because- Right ...

58:44

[00 58:46.281 – 00:58:51.081] my mind still wants to regret the past and shut the door on it.

58:49

[00 58:51.081 – 00:58:59.181] So, um, I, you know, my mind is, and my thoughts are filled with all these people that I sponsor.

58:56

[00 58:59.181 – 00:59:03.201] So it's a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

59:01

[00 59:03.201 – 00:59:05.921] So, uh, Cathy B.

59:03

[00 59:05.921 – 00:59:13.901] just sent me a link to the seven questions that you can find online, and I've posted that in the chat.

59:10

[00 59:13.901 – 00:59:18.361] Um, the save chat feature is enabled for this Zoom room.

59:14

[00 59:18.361 – 00:59:28.621] If you click on, if you're on a computer and you click on the three dots at the top of the chat screen and s- select save chat, it will save that

59:26

[00 59:28.621 – 00:59:31.921] to a folder on your computer called Zoom.

59:29

[00 59:31.921 – 00:59:32.691] Okay.

59:30

[00 59:32.691 – 00:59:42.701] And Chad, you're gonna have a really, just a really quick minute to ask a question, because, um, I did promise Nancy that we

59:38

[00 59:42.701 – 00:59:48.381] would have a hard close at 7:00, and so you've got two minutes.

59:43

[00 59:48.381 – 00:59:50.621] So- Okay, thanks.

59:44

[00 59:50.621 – 00:59:51.891] Chad, alcoholic.

59:45

[00 59:51.891 – 00:59:53.921] Thanks so much, Penny, Nancy, and everybody else.

59:48

[00 59:53.921 – 00:59:59.631] Uh, Nancy, I was just wondering if you knew Chuck C., and if so, if you had any memories of him that you'd care to share?

59:57

[00 59:59.631 – 01:00:00.221] Well, I did.

59:59

[01 00:00.221 – 01:00:06.201] My memory is that when I was new, I heard him talk, and I had no clue what he was talking about.

60:07

[01 00:06.201 – 01:00:16.721] And everybody was saying, "Wasn't he great?" And I said, "Yes," but I thought, "I don't know what that man was talking about." Because it, you know, it was a lot of

60:18

[01 00:16.721 – 01:00:19.701] spiritual talk, and I wasn't quite there yet.

60:21

[01 00:19.701 – 01:00:25.841] But, um, so I just did get to hear him speak a few times and see him around.

60:28

[01 00:25.841 – 01:00:28.481] Thanks.

60:28

[01 00:28.481 – 01:00:37.981] Well, Nancy, I just wanna thank you so much for being willing to come and do this, to, to take the risk of the questions I was going to ask.

60:39

[01 00:37.981 – 01:00:41.581] I'm grateful for everybody that came to support Nancy.

60:42

[01 00:41.581 – 01:00:45.721] I'll give you an update that top of the seventh, it's still 2-1.

60:47

[01 00:45.721 – 01:00:47.941] Um- Thanks, Penny ...

60:48

[01 00:47.941 – 01:00:53.921] and, um, and unfortunately, that 2 is not for Los Angeles.

60:52

[01 00:53.921 – 01:00:55.361] Um- Yeah ...

60:53

[01 00:55.361 – 01:01:02.841] but, um- I, I did know the Blue Jays had two before, so I didn't think they took one away, so...

61:01

[01 01:02.841 – 01:01:04.371] But I'm getting- So- ...

61:03

[01 01:04.371 – 01:01:08.281] pizza, too, with my, with watching the end of the game ...

61:07

[01 01:08.281 – 01:01:11.101] so I will let you go watch the end of the game.

61:11

[01 01:11.101 – 01:01:12.960] Thank you so much for doing this.

61:14

[01 01:12.960 – 01:01:22.981] Um, the recording will be posted on Recovery Speakers, and you'll be able to listen to the recording there if, um, or share it with

61:23

[01 01:22.981 – 01:01:23.361] others.

61:23

[01 01:23.361 – 01:01:33.381] Um, next month, um, I will be talking with Pat Yo, uh, Pat Y., and, um, and we'll go through

61:31

[01 01:33.381 – 01:01:38.461] this again, and Nancy can come and listen in and maybe, um, ask a question or two.

61:37

[01 01:38.461 – 01:01:40.861] But, um, I wanna thank you all.

61:40

[01 01:40.861 – 01:01:42.661] And Tim, are you still here?

61:42

[01 01:42.661 – 01:01:44.781] Can I turn the meeting back over to you?

61:45

[01 01:44.781 – 01:01:46.561] Yeah, that's great.

61:47

[01 01:46.561 – 01:01:48.221] Thank you, everyone, for being here.

61:49

[01 01:48.221 – 01:01:54.241] And, uh, let's just, uh, allow everyone to unmute and thank Nancy for sharing with us tonight.

61:55

[01 01:54.241 – 01:01:56.861] And everyone should be allowed to un-mute.

61:58

[01 01:56.861 – 01:01:57.891] Thank you, Nancy.

The following is an AI-generated transcript. Minor errors may occur. The audio is the authoritative source.

Conversation with Nancy M presented by Conversation with Nancy M – 2025-10-28

Conversation with Nancy M presented by Conversation with Nancy M – 2025-10-28

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