Grapevine archives – Jackie B presented by Roger W – 2025-01-06

Interactive Transcript

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Unknown Tuesday Night History Workshop • 2025

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Unknown Listen to Workshop Recording

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Unknown ABOUT THIS WORKSHOP

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Unknown Roger W speaking on "Grapevine archives - Jackie B" in Tuesday Night History Workshop (January 06, 2025). This recording is preserved in high-fidelity with interactive scrolling transcripts.

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Unknown Interactive Transcript

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[00 00:03.600 – 00:00:07.519] Welcome to the Tuesday Night Recovery Speakers History Workshop.

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[00 00:07.519 – 00:00:09.359] Thanks for joining us.

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[00 00:09.359 – 00:00:15.679] My name is Tim, and tonight's presentation is led by Jackie B.

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[00 00:15.679 – 00:00:25.739] And Roger W., and they will be presenting on, uh, on AA Grapevine Digital Archives: Accessing the

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[00 00:25.739 – 00:00:26.679] AA Story.

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[00 00:26.679 – 00:00:32.539] We meet here every Tuesday night at the same time, and using the same Zoom ID.

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[00 00:32.539 – 00:00:39.500] And next week will be part two of this presentation, so please join us again next week.

0:42

[00 00:39.500 – 00:00:43.189] And this meeting is being recorded.

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[00 00:43.189 – 00:00:49.759] All audio or all past audio presentations are available at recoveryspeakers.com.

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[00 00:49.759 – 00:01:00.070] We are not affiliated with any 12-step organization, though our focus is the history of AA and other 12-step fellowship-

0:56

[00 01:00.070 – 00:01:02.439] or 12-step fellowships.

0:57

[00 01:02.439 – 00:01:12.519] Recoveryspeakers.com is a 501[c][3] nonprofit dedicated to preserving and sharing the audio history of AA and

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[00 01:12.519 – 00:01:17.000] the 12-step movement today and for future generations.

1:06

[00 01:17.000 – 00:01:18.540] We share...

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[00 01:18.540 – 00:01:28.618] We also send a daily email featuring a speaker talk from our archive, recordings from these meetings, and information on upcoming

1:15

[00 01:28.620 – 00:01:29.599] presentations.

1:16

[00 01:29.599 – 00:01:40.640] To subscribe, you can use the link that I'll be sharing in the chat in a moment, or you can send me an email at info@recoveryspeakers.com

1:26

[00 01:40.640 – 00:01:43.420] and I can get you added to our list.

1:29

[00 01:43.420 – 00:01:48.560] And if you are able to support our work, contributions are appreciated.

1:34

[00 01:48.560 – 00:01:54.640] The donation link will be in the chat, or you can use the QR code that is up on the screen now.

1:41

[00 01:54.640 – 00:02:02.900] And depending on time tonight, we might have, uh, the, the option for a Q&A.

1:47

[00 02:02.900 – 00:02:09.729] So if you have any questions for Jackie or Roger, please write them down and be prepared to ask questions at the end.

1:56

[00 02:09.729 – 00:02:19.819] And also, this is a two-part presentation, so you may wanna stick around next week and, uh, save your questions for then because they might be

2:05

[00 02:19.819 – 00:02:21.219] answering them next week.

2:07

[00 02:21.219 – 00:02:27.539] And, and now, I am going to close the chat.

2:10

[00 02:27.539 – 00:02:36.300] I will open it up because I think we will want some participation in a little bit on, uh, on Roger's end in a little bit.

2:20

[00 02:36.300 – 00:02:46.139] So please be ready to, uh, participate, and I will allow Jackie to take it over and introduce Roger too.

2:27

[00 02:46.139 – 00:02:48.379] Hi, everyone.

2:28

[00 02:48.379 – 00:02:49.939] My name is Jackie.

2:30

[00 02:49.939 – 00:02:54.460] I am an alcoholic and very glad to be here.

2:33

[00 02:54.460 – 00:03:00.939] I am wearing my Grapevine shirt, and very excited, and I got it from the international.

2:39

[00 03:00.939 – 00:03:04.539] I got to be a volunteer, uh, for the Grapevine.

2:43

[00 03:04.539 – 00:03:14.719] Um, I know Roger, and I met in Sedona at, um, maybe the third or I don't even know, third, second, fourth,

2:51

[00 03:14.719 – 00:03:20.000] uh, AA history symposium, uh, back when JS and Bill S.

2:55

[00 03:20.000 – 00:03:23.180] put it on, and that's also where I got to meet Mike F.

3:00

[00 03:23.180 – 00:03:25.639] and a bunch of wonderful people.

3:02

[00 03:25.639 – 00:03:35.740] Um, and, um, one of the things you learn pretty quickly back then is the AA history circles are a small world, and, uh,

3:11

[00 03:35.740 – 00:03:41.659] all of us, uh, at one time or the other, um, use the A- A- uh, the AA Grapevine Digital Archives.

3:18

[00 03:41.659 – 00:03:52.000] Um, even back then, like, they've been, the archives have been up for a while, and they are an indispensable tool, and I've known Roger for,

3:28

[00 03:52.000 – 00:03:56.520] ever since then, so that must have been in the mid-2010s.

3:32

[00 03:56.520 – 00:04:03.539] Um, and then, uh, we both currently now, we finally get to do some service together.

3:38

[00 04:03.539 – 00:04:08.289] Um, uh, I am, uh, an alcoholic in San Francisco.

3:42

[00 04:08.289 – 00:04:13.020] Um, my sobriety date is June, uh, 28th, 2006.

3:45

[00 04:13.020 – 00:04:16.420] I'm sure Roger will do his, uh, little qualification.

3:48

[00 04:16.420 – 00:04:26.769] Um, and, uh, we both currently serve on the Grapevine editorial advisory board, um, which means we actually have one of the coolest

3:56

[00 04:26.769 – 00:04:28.699] jobs in AA.

3:58

[00 04:28.699 – 00:04:29.800] It's very unusual.

3:59

[00 04:29.800 – 00:04:33.839] We literally only give our opinions on things, and that's it.

4:03

[00 04:33.839 – 00:04:38.139] It's one of the very few things where you give opinions.

4:07

[00 04:38.139 – 00:04:43.019] Like, no, we're here to represent, um, parts of the different fellowship along with a few other folks.

4:14

[00 04:43.019 – 00:04:46.180] I'll read a little bit of, of our responsibilities.

4:17

[00 04:46.180 – 00:04:50.860] We, uh, attend, uh, these editorial board meetings.

4:20

[00 04:50.860 – 00:05:00.879] Um, we get, uh, subscriptions to the Grapevine online, so we have to read the Grapevine online and the print and play around with the app and just give, uh, a little

4:32

[00 05:00.879 – 00:05:02.379] bit of, uh, feedback.

4:33

[00 05:02.379 – 00:05:04.920] Um, and so we get to hear from people as well.

4:38

[00 05:04.920 – 00:05:14.939] And we, uh, yeah, give feedback on the content of the Grapevine and the various, um, formats and, um, all that kind of stuff, and it's

4:47

[00 05:14.939 – 00:05:25.019] wonderful, and we try and encourage people, not even only to subscribe of course, but to also write stories for the Grapevine, um,

4:55

[00 05:25.019 – 00:05:30.649] and to, um, uh, uh, participate in writing workshops.

4:58

[00 05:30.649 – 00:05:40.740] And then because, uh, Roger and I come from this history background and we did do these history presentations at various points, um, at the

5:07

[00 05:40.740 – 00:05:50.879] same time or around each other, this is the first time we're doing kind of a joint thing together, talking about how both of us, because we have a background in researching specific parts of the

5:20

[00 05:50.879 – 00:06:00.879] AA fellowship, uh, that aren't in traditional AA history, um, uh, books that, you know,

5:26

[00 06:00.879 – 00:06:10.980] makes us have to use the, the v- the, the record of, uh, the living record of the AA story, which for me in part is

5:35

[00 06:10.980 – 00:06:12.060] the AA Grapevine.

5:36

[00 06:12.060 – 00:06:22.240] Um, that's how we kind of, uh, found each other on this editorial advisory board, and that's what we're here to hear, is to teach folks, um, both

5:46

[00 06:22.240 – 00:06:32.279] history lovers and folks who use it, um, more intensely for, uh, history projects on how to have a good time with the digital archives

5:55

[00 06:32.279 – 00:06:35.019] and, you know, um, how to go down rabbit holes.

5:59

[00 06:35.019 – 00:06:38.199] So this week, uh, Roger, I'm introducing Roger.

6:02

[00 06:38.199 – 00:06:41.540] He's gonna show you the little fun rabbit holes he's gone on.

6:06

[00 06:41.540 – 00:06:43.379] He might take you on some rabbit holes.

6:10

[00 06:43.379 – 00:06:46.910] Next week you're gonna go on some of my favorite rabbit holes I've gone-

6:15

[00 06:47.042 – 00:06:48.962] On through the Grapevine.

6:16

[00 06:48.962 – 00:06:58.962] And, um, afterwards, we'll, we'll probably talk to you a little bit about how you can also, um, not only support the Grapevine in various ways, but also, you know, give you guys some options

6:29

[00 06:58.962 – 00:07:03.422] on what kind of s- you know, ways you can subscribe and use the digital archives.

6:35

[00 07:03.422 – 00:07:08.462] 'Cause there's also different ways to access the archives based on whatever level is comfortable for you.

6:41

[00 07:08.462 – 00:07:10.881] So take it away.

6:42

[00 07:10.881 – 00:07:14.902] Okay.

6:43

[00 07:14.902 – 00:07:16.642] Hello, my name is Roger.

6:45

[00 07:16.642 – 00:07:22.032] I am an alcoholic, and, um, glad to be here.

6:49

[00 07:22.032 – 00:07:25.942] My sobriety date's August 15th, 1983.

6:51

[00 07:25.942 – 00:07:31.522] And somewhere along the way, I fell in love with the story of, like...

6:56

[00 07:31.522 – 00:07:41.642] I, I hated history in school, but, uh, our story is just, to me, very interesting, um, exciting,

7:03

[00 07:41.642 – 00:07:46.442] and, um, just beautiful in all of its different dynamics.

7:07

[00 07:46.442 – 00:07:50.912] And there's so, like, like Jackie said, there are so many rabbit holes to go down.

7:12

[00 07:50.912 – 00:07:54.362] I'm gonna share these.

7:14

[00 07:54.362 – 00:08:04.422] So I made some slides just in case the website didn't work or something, um, so I could share.

7:21

[00 08:04.422 – 00:08:06.902] Okay.

7:22

[00 08:06.902 – 00:08:10.302] So hopefully, are you seeing that?

7:24

[00 08:10.302 – 00:08:15.042] The Grapevine through the years, uh, from the first one to the app.

7:29

[00 08:15.042 – 00:08:15.982] Yes.

7:30

[00 08:15.982 – 00:08:24.302] So I guess welcome, welcome to the, uh, part one of the AA Grapevine Digital Archives, Accessing the AA Story.

7:37

[00 08:24.302 – 00:08:31.962] Like, like Jackie said, the, the Grapevine Digital Archives are just a, to me, it's a treasure trove of our history.

7:44

[00 08:31.962 – 00:08:35.482] It's the voices of Alcoholics Anonymous captured.

7:47

[00 08:35.482 – 00:08:44.802] Um, I think there are over 30,000 stories in the archives, in the repository, um, that shows the evolution of the fellowship.

7:55

[00 08:44.802 – 00:08:54.882] So if you're interested in a deeper understanding of what, what AA looked like any time from the 1940s to present, this is a tool that I think

8:05

[00 08:54.882 – 00:08:57.661] you really should take advantage of if you're a history lover.

8:09

[00 08:57.661 – 00:09:05.981] Um, if you, if you have a subscription, you, you probably already know how to access the digital archives.

8:16

[00 09:05.981 – 00:09:10.022] So you start at the aagrapevine.org, the website.

8:19

[00 09:10.022 – 00:09:20.302] By the way, La Viña has also been archived, so if you're interested in the repository of, of Spanish language La Viña content, you can go to aalavina.org,

8:30

[00 09:20.302 – 00:09:22.562] and same thing.

8:31

[00 09:22.562 – 00:09:30.382] Um, so once you're logged in, you're gonna see the silhouette icon instead of the login, and you'll know.

8:38

[00 09:30.382 – 00:09:40.762] And then, clever, they call it archive at the top, and, um, that's where you click to, uh, gain access to,

8:46

[00 09:40.762 – 00:09:48.422] to every past Grapevine magazine article that chronicles the voices of AA all over the decades.

8:52

[00 09:48.422 – 00:09:58.522] Um, so once you're in, uh, you'll be taken to the most recent volume of AA Grapevine, and, um, the first two stories appear here on my

9:01

[00 09:58.522 – 00:09:58.862] screen.

9:02

[00 09:58.862 – 00:10:07.422] Um, if you change the sort, uh, to oldest to newest, you're gonna see the very first Grapevine, uh, article.

9:09

[00 10:07.422 – 00:10:17.422] So a few years ago, I was asked to give a presentation on the history of AA in Kentucky, area 26, at SASA.

9:17

[00 10:17.422 – 00:10:19.922] Uh, we were co-hosting with West Virginia.

9:20

[00 10:19.922 – 00:10:30.192] And I used a, a bunch of sources to piece together a chronological timeline, um, first, which was the advice that, um, my mentor,

9:28

[00 10:30.192 – 00:10:33.502] Ernie Kurtz, told me to do, uh, many years ago.

9:32

[00 10:33.502 – 00:10:40.482] Specific, uh, specific history occurs in the context of wider history.

9:36

[00 10:40.482 – 00:10:50.602] And, um, developing a timeline really has proven to help me have, put into perspective what was going on in the world, in, in wider AA,

9:45

[00 10:50.602 – 00:10:52.862] and, um, see if these things are related.

9:49

[00 10:52.862 – 00:11:02.892] So anyway, besides going to our local area archives, GSO archives, I searched the Grapevine digital

9:54

[00 11:02.892 – 00:11:05.022] archives to learn about local history.

9:57

[00 11:05.022 – 00:11:09.442] So specifically, I started with the word Kentucky, obviously.

10:00

[00 11:09.442 – 00:11:19.502] So, um, hoping I would find information from, uh, authors of articles that, uh, that lived here, and maybe some rabbit holes.

10:08

[00 11:19.502 – 00:11:24.702] So the earliest article I found wasn't written by a Kentucky member, but by Doc M.

10:14

[00 11:24.702 – 00:11:26.182] from Shelby, North Carolina.

10:16

[00 11:26.182 – 00:11:32.062] This, if you're interested in the history of NA, you might be familiar with, with this story.

10:22

[00 11:32.062 – 00:11:40.842] But, but he suggested, um, establishing an AA group at the United States Public Health Service Hospital in Lexington.

10:29

[00 11:40.842 – 00:11:47.022] Um, the location, Lexington, Kentucky, is what made it come up in my search.

10:34

[00 11:47.022 – 00:11:49.922] Um, and his wish did come true.

10:37

[00 11:49.922 – 00:12:00.262] Um, by 1947, there was a salesman from Alabama with a passion for helping alcoholics with drug addiction, and he transferred to Frankfort, Kentucky,

10:45

[00 12:00.262 – 00:12:01.682] and he connected with Dr.

10:47

[00 12:01.682 – 00:12:08.262] Victor Vogel and, um, started a group similar to AA for addicts in the Lexington facility.

10:53

[00 12:08.262 – 00:12:12.622] And, um, the first meeting was in February 16th, 1947.

10:56

[00 12:12.622 – 00:12:19.962] Uh, the members christened Addicts Anonymous, and they met regularly until the 1960s.

11:01

[00 12:19.962 – 00:12:28.212] And since I live here, that's been a rabbit hole that, uh, I'm, I'm having fun with from time to time, uh, trying to learn more about that.

11:11

[00 12:28.212 – 00:12:31.942] But I learned it here first at the Grapevine Digital Archive.

11:15

[00 12:31.942 – 00:12:42.082] Um, the second article only mentions Kentucky because some people from here attended the very first regional convention, the Southeastern Conference,

11:23

[00 12:42.082 – 00:12:52.142] which used to be the granddaddy of them all until, um, it, it, it no longer exists, but for a while it was the oldest, um, conference.

11:32

[00 12:52.142 – 00:12:55.082] But some people from Kentucky, nothing relevant.

11:35

[00 12:55.082 – 00:12:58.722] Um, I like the bottom of it.

11:38

[00 12:58.722 – 00:13:09.422] The, and that creates another, uh, potential rabbit hole for the future that, um, there was a group in Missouri that bought a clubhouse, and then they advertised the phone number in

11:49

[00 13:09.422 – 00:13:11.302] the Grapevine for people to call.

11:51

[00 13:11.302 – 00:13:21.342] And again, um, this is a Grapevine feature, uh, that, that lists a lot of local groups to sh- to, to share experience with others.

12:00

[00 13:21.342 – 00:13:28.422] So it started off with a, a New York AA that passed away from a even more deadly malady than alcoholism.

12:08

[00 13:28.422 – 00:13:33.842] And since he was an early member, my mind wanted to know, you know, who was this and what was their conne-

12:16

[00 13:35.298 – 00:13:39.038] um, so that's a character defect that I w- I was easily distracted.

12:21

[00 13:39.038 – 00:13:48.478] But back on path, um, further in this list of dates is quoted a letter from somebody that referenced the Kentucky Derby.

12:29

[00 13:48.478 – 00:13:54.378] Um, another false alarm, the word Kentucky, nothing really relevant about history yet.

12:33

[00 13:54.378 – 00:14:00.918] In August of 1946, uh, new groups were listed that included Frankfort, Kentucky.

12:38

[00 14:00.918 – 00:14:11.108] And, um, this is interesting because it was 25 miles away and only about February, a few months, that, uh, the first meeting in Lexington took place,

12:47

[00 14:11.108 – 00:14:14.238] a public meeting with about 200 people in attendance.

12:50

[00 14:14.238 – 00:14:24.298] Um, many non-alcoholics, some, uh, speakers from Cincinnati and Louisville, more established groups came down to try to, to kick off AA

12:58

[00 14:24.298 – 00:14:25.578] in Lexington.

12:59

[00 14:25.578 – 00:14:28.198] And then here we are in the Grapevine.

13:02

[00 14:28.198 – 00:14:34.778] Um, a few months later, AA's in Frankfort, Kentucky, which is about 25 miles away.

13:07

[00 14:34.778 – 00:14:44.838] So, um, Grapevine published part of a letter in October of '46 from the western tip of the state in, in Paducah, Kentucky,

13:16

[00 14:44.838 – 00:14:53.098] with two members that were struggling, uh, to create a group back then, one of our, uh, about our fourth or fifth group here.

13:24

[00 14:53.098 – 00:15:02.038] And, um, here's an article from an AA at Fort Knox, Kentucky, that w- It's fascinating to me that sort of my niche is military.

13:33

[00 15:02.038 – 00:15:12.058] And so the author, HR, we used a lot of initials in the old days versus first names, um, shared about their trouble in uniform and getting sentenced

13:43

[00 15:12.058 – 00:15:16.318] to three years of hard labor at Jefferson Barracks in Missouri.

13:47

[00 15:16.318 – 00:15:24.538] And if you've ever heard my AA in the military presentation, you know that, um, that's the place where the first AA group was recorded on a military base.

13:57

[00 15:24.538 – 00:15:33.538] So here's an early member of that first ever AA group on a military base in the, in the disciplinary barracks at Jefferson Barracks.

14:06

[00 15:33.538 – 00:15:39.108] And now he's, um, what he calls in for parole to the AA group in Louisville.

14:12

[00 15:39.108 – 00:15:46.738] And I'm not sure exactly what that means, but, um, but he's in Fort Knox, and he's attending meetings in Louisville, which is, um...

14:20

[00 15:46.738 – 00:15:53.738] there's no-- Perhaps he started AA in Fort Knox, but at this point, there's not a registered group.

14:27

[00 15:53.738 – 00:16:03.778] But an interesting, uh, for me to connect this guy who got sober in the first military base

14:33

[00 16:03.778 – 00:16:06.318] AA group, and now he's in Kentucky.

14:36

[00 16:06.318 – 00:16:16.318] And discovering, um, this article in the clip sheet, um, which are reprints of articles in newspapers, this was

14:43

[00 16:16.318 – 00:16:19.188] another fascinating rabbit hole that, that I fell down.

14:47

[00 16:19.188 – 00:16:29.328] In March of 1947, a Grapevine reprinted an article from a Philadelphia newspaper that said a Kentucky gambler started something called Gamblers

14:54

[00 16:29.328 – 00:16:30.018] Anonymous.

14:55

[00 16:30.018 – 00:16:40.028] So I went to look into Gamblers Anonymous, and I found out that, um, this claim is, predates Gamblers

15:02

[00 16:40.028 – 00:16:43.058] Anonymous' version of their own history by ten years.

15:05

[00 16:43.058 – 00:16:52.658] So I don't know if there was a false start or there was, uh, something that didn't take off, but, um, I never really pursued it any further than that.

15:16

[00 16:52.658 – 00:16:56.218] But it didn't check out with what Gamblers Anonymous says about their own history.

15:21

[00 16:56.218 – 00:17:02.418] And it was in a Philadelphia newspaper, not the, you know, the Grapevine reprinted.

15:26

[00 17:02.418 – 00:17:07.158] So another article with, uh, no real Kentucky history.

15:29

[00 17:07.158 – 00:17:13.558] Um, Grapevine reprinted a sports page article from another newspaper that mentioned the, the Kentucky Derby.

15:35

[00 17:13.558 – 00:17:23.758] The first writer was surprised to learn that, A, public information was available at local ho- hotels during Derby week, which is a big drinking holiday for about

15:45

[00 17:23.758 – 00:17:24.358] a month here.

15:47

[00 17:24.358 – 00:17:34.398] And, um, the second article they published suggested that the Derby itself is such a drunken celebration that it's for the people that resigned

15:55

[00 17:34.398 – 00:17:35.818] from Alcoholics Anonymous.

15:57

[00 17:35.818 – 00:17:40.638] Um, the only thing really there is, uh, uh, we were in the press.

16:02

[00 17:40.638 – 00:17:47.258] We were, we were known by, by, by the press pretty well, um, at least in name.

16:08

[00 17:47.258 – 00:17:56.958] So here's another new circuit section that mentioned members of, uh, groups from Southern Kentucky, um, attended a anniversary in Memphis.

16:15

[00 17:56.958 – 00:18:05.098] And then, um, this Grapevine article, um, supported our local archives information.

16:20

[00 18:05.098 – 00:18:15.038] There was a second source that, um, before the traditions, there was a local group that actively, um, involved with the Episcopal dioce- diocese of Kentucky.

16:29

[00 18:15.038 – 00:18:22.758] Um, and the Norton Memorial Infirmary was the first treatment facility in Louisville, Kentucky.

16:34

[00 18:22.758 – 00:18:32.888] And the AA group took credit for being a part of that, um, you know, pre-traditions, um, uh, you know, sponsoring or,

16:42

[00 18:32.888 – 00:18:35.748] or helping fund, uh, the treatment center.

16:45

[00 18:35.748 – 00:18:45.848] Something that I didn't find in Grapevine, but just like when I connected this, I connected the dots that, um, later, uh, that same Episcopal

16:54

[00 18:45.848 – 00:18:55.148] Diocese of Kentucky, there was a non-alcoholic minister that got introduced to AA by an AA member in their congregation.

17:01

[00 18:55.148 – 00:19:03.698] They became so fascinated with Alcoholics Anonymous and the program of recovery that we have, they got involved.

17:08

[00 19:03.698 – 00:19:10.738] And, um, that person became a General Service Board trustee emeriti, and his name is Ward Ewing.

17:14

[00 19:10.738 – 00:19:19.158] And, um, here's an article by HGH from Lexington.

17:17

[00 19:19.158 – 00:19:29.318] It's a good read, um, but it's a-- it pointed me to our local archives to find somebody by this name, uh, which

17:25

[00 19:29.318 – 00:19:29.838] we did.

17:26

[00 19:29.838 – 00:19:32.538] And, um, we believe this is the same guy.

17:30

[00 19:32.538 – 00:19:38.038] Mount Sterling's 30 miles away, but, um, HGH, um, coincidence.

17:33

[00 19:38.038 – 00:19:42.038] Um, he wrote another article, um, the very next month.

17:37

[00 19:42.038 – 00:19:46.078] So contributor at least twice that we found.

17:40

[00 19:46.078 – 00:19:53.318] The, uh, the comics page used to be called Barley Corn, the joke section.

17:45

[00 19:53.318 – 00:19:57.958] Here's one from, uh, somebody from Kentucky sent in in 1948.

17:49

[00 19:57.958 – 00:20:05.218] In July of '49, the Grapevine published an article called Aid for Drug Addicts.

17:54

[00 20:05.218 – 00:20:06.758] That's interesting, isn't it?

17:56

[00 20:06.758 – 00:20:13.588] Um, it's about the group called Addicts Anonymous at the Lexington Kentucky Public Health Service Hospital.

18:02

[00 20:13.588 – 00:20:20.868] Um, the group published a lot of pamphlets, and they always put this, uh, statement in, "Patterned exactly"

18:08

[00 20:21.274 – 00:20:30.674] after the program Alcoholics Anonymous, which has been so remarkably successful in rescuing thousands of otherwise helpless individuals.

18:15

[00 20:30.674 – 00:20:36.234] You know, I know as historians, we, we just, we report the facts, we call balls and strikes.

18:21

[00 20:36.234 – 00:20:45.854] Um, but a lot of the members of Alcoholics Anonymous who took meetings into, uh, help drug addicts in, um, the narcotics farm in Lexington.

18:30

[00 20:45.854 – 00:20:50.434] It was our early members in Lexington who really, uh, did that work.

18:35

[00 20:50.434 – 00:21:01.094] Um, and their names mentioned a lot less or not at all in our local archives, which are also in Lexington, and I found that interesting.

18:44

[00 21:01.094 – 00:21:11.434] Um, and I don't know conclusively, but, um, it, it seems like they were not written out of history, but winners

18:52

[00 21:11.434 – 00:21:16.254] write the history, and they weren't maybe favorably looked upon for, for doing that work.

18:57

[00 21:16.254 – 00:21:23.774] But I just found that their names appeared a lot less often than, um, some other prominent members.

19:04

[00 21:23.774 – 00:21:30.434] Um, for anybody interested, um, you can read it for yourself in the Grapevine.

19:09

[00 21:30.434 – 00:21:34.074] Um, they had a semi-weekly meeting for men and women.

19:13

[00 21:34.074 – 00:21:41.674] Um, the, the 12 step studies, which they said were the, uh, the program of recovery.

19:18

[00 21:41.674 – 00:21:46.034] And, um, as an institution meeting, they called intramural.

19:22

[00 21:46.034 – 00:21:50.734] It was closed to all but patients and approved AA speakers.

19:26

[00 21:50.734 – 00:21:55.974] And, um, the Grapevine published their address for anybody that wanted to write and ask questions.

19:32

[00 21:55.974 – 00:22:06.144] In, uh, June of 1950, there was a tongue in cheek article that pointed to the Southeastern Regional Convention

19:38

[00 22:06.144 – 00:22:08.824] they called it, um, the Southeastern Conference.

19:41

[00 22:08.824 – 00:22:17.594] They said, "It's just as good as all that hype and hullabaloo you're talking about with this upcoming Cleveland International Convention." So, um.

19:49

[00 22:17.594 – 00:22:27.874] And then here's a fun one that, um, you know, if you worry about how do, how do we know how many members and groups and the challenge.

19:59

[00 22:27.874 – 00:22:30.673] So in 1954, it was already challenging.

20:02

[00 22:30.673 – 00:22:31.814] It's only worse today.

20:03

[00 22:31.814 – 00:22:37.374] Um, but at that time, Kentucky was listed with 773 AA members.

20:07

[00 22:47.894 – 00:22:50.894] location and see what kind of fun things you find.

20:11

[00 22:50.894 – 00:23:00.354] So there was an article that appeared in 1950 about, uh, having Kentucky Derby parties to stay sober, and that's really still a staple.

20:19

[00 23:00.354 – 00:23:06.434] And, um, locally here, every, every May, still there's sober Derby parties.

20:24

[00 23:06.434 – 00:23:16.434] And then again in 1960, Grapevine reprints an article from The Key, which is the newsletter of the Addicts

20:30

[00 23:16.434 – 00:23:20.694] Anonymous, uh, group in the Public Health Hospital in Lexington.

20:34

[00 23:20.694 – 00:23:26.934] And, um, Grapevine policy does not reprint articles from AA newsletters today.

20:39

[00 23:26.934 – 00:23:31.514] But I was really glad to stumble upon this and know that their policy allowed it.

20:45

[00 23:31.514 – 00:23:41.614] Um, it's not by an AA member, it's not from an AA newsletter, but the word Kentucky and the PostScript gave me another rabbit hole

20:53

[00 23:41.614 – 00:23:44.134] to, um, to pursue and learn about.

20:56

[00 23:44.134 – 00:23:54.153] And, um, in Kentucky, Bertha is well known, and I, I don't know if, um, this is gonna be in Jackie's next week or not, but especially

21:06

[00 23:54.154 – 00:24:00.834] in Louisville, Kentucky, I discovered the original Grapevine article that she wrote while she was attending the Tri-State Convention.

21:13

[00 24:00.834 – 00:24:10.854] Um, the article became a story in, in the third and fourth edition of the Big Book called Another Chance, and a local member has done some extensive research here

21:23

[00 24:10.854 – 00:24:20.204] to complete much of the puzzle and help round out her inspirational story, and even found some descending family members that got to learn about their grandmother.

21:33

[00 24:20.204 – 00:24:29.144] Um, so in the article, she, um, she encouraged other Black members not to be afraid of AA and to seek the help that they needed.

21:42

[00 24:29.144 – 00:24:38.464] So a lot of old-timers that I met here knew her personally, shared a lot of experience, strength, and hope, uh, about her 12-step efforts.

21:51

[00 24:38.464 – 00:24:48.534] And, um, I know the slides aren't up, quick enough to read a whole article, but the difference in the language in 1968, where she said, "I

22:00

[00 24:48.534 – 00:24:58.814] do think some of the Negroes are afraid to go to other meetings," was adjusted to African Americans because that's what we do with our Big Book stories.

22:10

[00 24:58.814 – 00:25:03.254] We reflect language that's gonna be inclusive of today's reader.

22:14

[00 25:03.254 – 00:25:08.674] The Big Book version doesn't specify which convention she was at.

22:18

[00 25:08.674 – 00:25:10.454] Um, they edited the ending a bit.

22:21

[00 25:10.454 – 00:25:11.934] Um, they took out a paragraph.

22:23

[00 25:11.934 – 00:25:20.694] I like the original where she said, "I, I'm hoping that writing this may bring some poor mixed up soul into the program.

22:32

[00 25:20.694 – 00:25:30.694] If you want what we have, try coming around and giving it, giving the program a chance." So a lot of people were

22:40

[00 25:30.694 – 00:25:35.674] happy to know a little bit about find the original Grapevine article that became the Big Book story.

22:46

[00 25:35.674 – 00:25:41.434] Here's another rabbit hole I fell into using the Grapevine archives.

22:51

[00 25:41.434 – 00:25:45.614] I, I, I found this story about warning labels on alcohol being approved.

22:55

[00 25:45.614 – 00:25:56.014] Uh, but that there was a compromise because there was a longer, more specific warning label that was not approved because the, the two Kentucky senators from our

23:05

[00 25:56.014 – 00:25:59.114] bourbon-producing state opposed it.

23:07

[00 25:59.114 – 00:26:03.904] And I thought this was interesting, uh, Gray Pages information.

23:11

[00 26:03.904 – 00:26:13.974] So of course, that led me to go to the Congressional Record and read the debate for myself and validate what was published in the Grapevine, and it checked out.

23:21

[00 26:13.974 – 00:26:19.854] And I wanna share real quick about Richard Grendel, or Richard G.

23:26

[00 26:19.854 – 00:26:23.914] Um, this was a fascinating find.

23:28

[00 26:23.914 – 00:26:30.734] As I was going through the Grapevine archives searching Kentucky history, I kept seeing articles from RG, but sometimes Dick G.

23:36

[00 26:30.734 – 00:26:36.854] His location was usually Fort Knox, but sometimes Radcliffe, which is right outside the base.

23:41

[00 26:36.854 – 00:26:42.594] And, uh, between 1976 and 1983, he published at least 13 articles.

23:45

[00 26:42.594 – 00:26:45.874] So I went to our air archives, I talked to other people.

23:49

[00 26:45.874 – 00:26:47.974] It turned out that he was very active.

23:52

[00 26:47.974 – 00:26:51.634] He was a DCM, he was our area secretary for a panel.

23:57

[00 26:51.634 – 00:26:56.034] And, um, so I, I sought more information about him.

24:01

[00 26:56.034 – 00:27:01.834] Um, Dick got sober while he was serving in the Army while he was in Vietnam.

24:06

[00 27:01.834 – 00:27:07.824] So somebody in Vietnam carried the message to him, um, in 1973 as a-

24:11

[00 27:07.943 – 00:27:09.363] A sobriety date.

24:13

[00 27:09.363 – 00:27:16.463] Um, he was an original founding member of my home group at the time, the Traditions group in Elizabethtown.

24:19

[00 27:16.463 – 00:27:26.843] And so that fascinated me even further, but I never got to meet him because I moved there in 2010, and Dick died in 2012, and I didn't discover him until

24:30

[00 27:26.843 – 00:27:29.483] this research several years later.

24:32

[00 27:29.483 – 00:27:37.803] So it's, it constantly is a little bit of a regret for me, and it's a reminder that our longtime members are happy to share their stories.

24:41

[00 27:37.803 – 00:27:42.243] You can hear, hear them here once a month, and, um, talk to them.

24:47

[00 27:42.243 – 00:27:47.563] They wanna share and, um, a- and, and ask them to share their story with you before it's too late.

24:54

[00 27:47.563 – 00:27:49.103] 'Cause for me, I missed it.

24:56

[00 27:49.103 – 00:27:59.103] Um, moving on from Kentucky, um, here's a few interesting tidbits that you might find, um, in the A Digital Grapevine

25:04

[00 27:59.103 – 00:28:01.903] Archives looking for it or looking for something else.

25:07

[00 28:01.903 – 00:28:12.093] Um, it's a public information chair in California talking about how let the bums find us is really contrary to our principles,

25:15

[00 28:12.093 – 00:28:12.933] and we need to go out.

25:17

[00 28:12.933 – 00:28:18.143] That the drunk is, is the public until we carry the message to them.

25:23

[00 28:18.143 – 00:28:28.163] Nell Wing, uh, writing in 1977 about her experience with the Alcoholic Foundation from early times and, um,

25:29

[00 28:28.163 – 00:28:29.763] being our first archivist.

25:30

[00 28:29.763 – 00:28:32.043] See Dr.

25:32

[00 28:32.043 – 00:28:37.883] Jack Morris, the chair of the General Service Board, opened up a section where, um ...

25:37

[00 28:37.883 – 00:28:39.183] And this might be next week too.

25:40

[00 28:39.183 – 00:28:48.403] I hope, I hope I'm not overlapping much, but the hot topic of this article was, um, um, special purpose groups.

25:47

[00 28:48.403 – 00:28:55.763] And About Alcoholism published a book review of Not God by Ernie Kurtz.

25:52

[00 28:55.763 – 00:29:05.823] And, um, and I mentioned earlier that my personal focus and, um, uh, research over the period of

25:59

[00 29:05.823 – 00:29:15.793] time that I've been sober is, uh, Benet and the military, how the program grew in, in some places because, because service members were stationed there, and they needed to stay sober.

26:10

[00 29:15.793 – 00:29:25.903] And they looked for another alcoholic, and they planted a seed or there's a story about staying sober in some challenging, austere environment.

26:18

[00 29:25.903 – 00:29:33.963] So those are the stories that I try to collect or the, the history of the substance abuse, uh, programs in the various services.

26:27

[00 29:33.963 – 00:29:40.223] So to augment those sources, I turned to the Grapevine Archives.

26:31

[00 29:40.223 – 00:29:48.743] And, um, as a source, I searched terms like Army, Navy, Air Force, veteran, Marine, so forth.

26:37

[00 29:48.743 – 00:29:56.743] And, um, then I try to filter out the irrelevant and, um, flesh out the story, go down rabbit holes, what have you.

26:45

[00 29:56.743 – 00:30:06.783] So you can see if you look at, for Army, and the most recent, um, five drunks in Kuwait is, uh, all about, uh,

26:54

[00 30:06.783 – 00:30:10.043] a deployment to Kuwait in 2021 and starting a meeting.

26:57

[00 30:10.043 – 00:30:14.943] Step one in clarity is from, uh, somebody that was medically discharged from the Army.

27:03

[00 30:14.943 – 00:30:19.783] Uh, four times the love refers to herself as a hardened biker army chick.

27:08

[00 30:19.783 – 00:30:26.523] And scene of the crime is from a soldier that was forced to retire early from drinking.

27:14

[00 30:26.523 – 00:30:36.643] Now, if you shift, uh, the order oldest to newest, you're gonna get the first issue of the Grapevine because Mail Call was a prominent feature,

27:23

[00 30:36.643 – 00:30:43.063] and, um, that's where we get the often quoted when the idea of bringing a New York Metropolitan A paper was conceived.

27:31

[00 30:43.063 – 00:30:49.703] One of our first thoughts was that it might prove particularly helpful to our members in the service.

27:38

[00 30:49.703 – 00:30:50.863] And it did.

27:39

[00 30:50.863 – 00:30:54.583] And now it's just a treasure trove waiting for you to discover it.

27:44

[00 30:54.583 – 00:31:02.263] Every story, uh, printed in Mail Call is about World War II and, and service members staying sober.

27:51

[00 31:02.263 – 00:31:09.703] You can learn about a woman's Army Corps member sharing her story of being a hopeless drunk to a useful service member.

27:58

[00 31:09.703 – 00:31:19.743] You can read about the first overseas telephone call to the headquarters in, from Germany to help, uh, from a doctor that was trying to help an alcoholic patient.

28:09

[00 31:19.743 – 00:31:29.762] Um, for somebody like me who's got a niche in history, um, likes rabbit holes, About Alcoholism, again, I saw this

28:16

[00 31:29.762 – 00:31:39.883] thing about a survey of almost 2,000 that concluded that 15 to 28% of on-duty alcohol use with

28:22

[00 31:39.883 – 00:31:43.643] the Army, of course, leading the league, got me curious.

28:26

[00 31:43.643 – 00:31:53.523] So of course, I was sidetracked to find the full study in the American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse and get the full context of the Grapevine excerpt.

28:36

[00 31:53.523 – 00:32:01.373] And, um, so Grapevine Archives led me to the source with a few breadcrumbs, and I, I was a sucker for it.

28:44

[00 32:01.373 – 00:32:07.103] Again, I discovered this article from Bill W.

28:47

[00 32:07.103 – 00:32:15.223] In October of '59, talking about, um, identifying with each new prospect in experience and language.

28:53

[00 32:15.223 – 00:32:25.223] And then in the same article, um, same issue, excuse me, um, Grapevine published a letter from a group in Japan that requested

29:01

[00 32:25.223 – 00:32:33.463] that they review a translation of the preamble and the 12 steps that they've made to, uh, try to help local Japanese alcoholics.

29:09

[00 32:33.463 – 00:32:43.943] So the local English-speaking groups are trying to, uh, to help the Japanese alcoholics that, that come into the group, and they ask, uh, for help or permission to, uh,

29:19

[00 32:43.943 – 00:32:45.863] to translate some of our literature.

29:22

[00 32:45.863 – 00:32:53.613] So it's an early, uh, experience, early example of, um, trying to overcome the language barrier.

29:28

[00 32:53.613 – 00:32:55.983] Found that.

29:29

[00 32:55.983 – 00:33:00.543] And then again, um, same issue, um, and this one really got me curious.

29:34

[00 33:00.543 – 00:33:05.083] A Master Sergeant T in China in 1959.

29:37

[00 33:05.083 – 00:33:07.843] What's the, what's the military doing in China?

29:40

[00 33:07.843 – 00:33:18.423] So a little research offline helped me go down that rabbit hole and discover that, um, this city, that's, uh, Kaohsiung,

29:47

[00 33:18.423 – 00:33:19.683] is actually in Taiwan.

29:49

[00 33:19.683 – 00:33:22.063] And then there was the two China issue.

29:52

[00 33:22.063 – 00:33:29.683] And so this is in historical context of what's going on in the world during Cold War hostilities, China and Taiwan.

30:00

[00 33:29.683 – 00:33:32.963] Um, why is the military presence in Taiwan?

30:03

[00 33:32.963 – 00:33:41.273] Um, there was a thing called the United States Taiwan Defense Command after a treaty was signed.

30:09

[00 33:41.273 – 00:33:49.043] So Master Sergeant T is a sober AA stationed over there in a remote community.

30:14

[00 33:49.043 – 00:33:54.733] Um, and he reported a group of four members with, uh, what he called unlimited prospects-

30:20

[00 33:54.939 – 00:33:55.619] The 12-step.

30:21

[00 33:55.619 – 00:34:00.639] So, Gam Bei means empty glass, the name of their group.

30:25

[00 34:00.639 – 00:34:09.159] And, and he thank- he was thanking GSO for the literature and linking him up with another AA member nearby who was a ham radio operator.

30:35

[00 34:09.159 – 00:34:19.779] So then they published information how alcoholics can, who read the Grapevine can contact them on ham radio and have one of these, uh, pre-Zoom

30:44

[00 34:19.779 – 00:34:20.479] meetings.

30:44

[00 34:20.479 – 00:34:25.859] And then, um, here's another fun discovery for me.

30:48

[00 34:25.859 – 00:34:28.379] Grapevine doesn't accept advertising, right?

30:50

[00 34:28.379 – 00:34:31.599] Subscriptions are vital for that reason.

30:52

[00 34:31.599 – 00:34:34.259] It's a different revenue model.

30:54

[00 34:34.259 – 00:34:42.589] No paid ads, but would you consider this a classified ad published in the Grapevine to help the Navy find AA members?

31:02

[00 34:42.589 – 00:34:53.379] In 1971, the Navy treatment program, led by an officer and AA member who testified recently at the Hughes hearings, um, he

31:10

[00 34:53.379 – 00:34:53.999] was, um...

31:11

[00 34:53.999 – 00:35:04.059] I, I don't know if this was a press release written by Captain Jim B, um, who's, who links up to, to be this person in charge of this

31:21

[00 35:04.059 – 00:35:04.499] program.

31:22

[00 35:04.499 – 00:35:06.739] Um, maybe.

31:23

[00 35:06.739 – 00:35:16.759] But in the '70s, the, as the Hughes Act started, uh, funding treatment and research, AA members as lay therapists was, uh, becoming a little bit

31:32

[00 35:16.759 – 00:35:23.359] prominent, really, um, uh, helped shape emerging treatment activities, if you will.

31:37

[00 35:23.359 – 00:35:32.019] Um, so it looks like the Bureau of Navy Personnel used the Grapevine, or the Grapevine published a request for AA members with, um...

31:45

[00 35:32.019 – 00:35:42.059] They were asking for s- people with an official record entry related to alcoholism, they got in some trouble, or otherwise be in a position to identify himself as a

31:56

[00 35:42.059 – 00:35:43.139] recovered alcoholic.

31:57

[00 35:43.139 – 00:35:46.659] So they used the Grapevine to get that word out.

32:01

[00 35:46.659 – 00:35:57.019] And seven months later, the Grapevine published an update claiming success in receiving a bunch of letters and, um, um, it, quote,

32:09

[00 35:57.019 – 00:36:07.159] "Members interested in helping to educate all naval personnel with regard to the AA view of alcoholism, and in helping to rehabilitate those

32:17

[00 36:07.159 – 00:36:12.619] alcoholics who desire to recover." So I don't know, do we educate?

32:21

[00 36:12.619 – 00:36:14.709] Is there an AA view of alcoholism?

32:24

[00 36:14.709 – 00:36:16.779] Was this controversial?

32:25

[00 36:16.779 – 00:36:22.319] Did the Grapevine get letters of, um, people upset that they published this?

32:30

[00 36:22.319 – 00:36:27.119] Um, was it a Navy press release that they published without editing?

32:35

[00 36:27.119 – 00:36:29.039] Well, I don't know.

32:36

[00 36:29.039 – 00:36:39.159] It claims 12-step volunteers will be put to work in, uh, cases that turn up in their area, and I don't know, if you're on the Navy payroll, is that doing

32:47

[00 36:39.159 – 00:36:40.339] 12-step work for hire?

32:49

[00 36:40.339 – 00:36:45.979] Um, do we have a different or better understanding of Tradition Eight now?

32:54

[00 36:45.979 – 00:36:56.039] But this was published in the Grapevine, and the only way that you can find it is to subscribe and, and, and start looking, and see what you find

33:04

[00 36:56.039 – 00:36:56.779] that...

33:05

[00 36:56.779 – 00:36:58.059] It's fascinating history.

33:06

[00 36:58.059 – 00:37:00.559] Um, it's in the digital archives.

33:09

[00 37:00.559 – 00:37:05.019] It's, uh, gonna be an example of learning from history.

33:13

[00 37:05.019 – 00:37:11.479] Um, it's waiting for somebody like us, like you, to, um, to discover it.

33:18

[00 37:11.479 – 00:37:15.019] And, um, until then, this was just buried treasure.

33:21

[00 37:15.019 – 00:37:22.239] So one final rabbit hole before I try an experiment and, um, turn it back over to Jackie.

33:28

[00 37:22.239 – 00:37:32.239] I found this About Alcoholism article about the Defense Department's new directive on alcoholism, and the first time that they officially called it a preventable and

33:37

[00 37:32.239 – 00:37:33.639] treatable illness.

33:38

[00 37:33.639 – 00:37:42.019] Um, it says that there's no standard therapy, and that the services programs borrow heavily from Alcoholics Anonymous.

33:44

[00 37:42.019 – 00:37:49.539] More evidence of, uh, that lay therapy movement that shaped the treatment in the '20s, and not so true today.

33:52

[00 37:49.539 – 00:37:59.569] But, um, certainly the core treatment programs that stemmed from the Hughes Act in the '70s in the services

33:59

[00 37:59.569 – 00:38:04.159] relied heavily on Alcoholics Anonymous and the 12 steps.

34:02

[00 38:04.159 – 00:38:08.448] But this got me to, uh, I found it to be accurate.

34:07

[00 38:08.448 – 00:38:14.918] But, um, as I mentioned, the Grapevine again pointed me to seek, uh, the directive that they mentioned.

34:13

[00 38:14.918 – 00:38:24.959] And, um, my access to the Pentagon library during my career, um, I have a collection of all the publications and the sequence of updates to them that

34:23

[00 38:24.959 – 00:38:34.439] help me piece together the full story of the alcohol and drug treatment in the services and their evolution, and what's changed, um, version to version.

34:33

[00 38:34.439 – 00:38:44.269] So it's an example of, the AA Grapevine digital archives is a treasure trove regardless of your topic of interest.

34:40

[00 38:44.269 – 00:38:55.199] So I would like to ask if anybody wants to put anything into the chat or, um, what I wanna do is, um, try

34:48

[00 38:55.199 – 00:38:57.019] to try an experiment.

34:50

[00 38:57.019 – 00:38:59.379] Is there a topic that you want...

34:53

[00 38:59.379 – 00:39:09.699] I mean, um, time's a challenge 'cause, as you can see, the task normally takes a while to find things, and then read them, and then understand the historical context,

35:03

[00 39:09.699 – 00:39:13.039] and then see whatever lessons might be learned.

35:06

[00 39:13.039 – 00:39:19.599] Um, but we can, I thought we would try one and, um, and let, let's see if, uh...

35:13

[00 39:19.599 – 00:39:29.659] Let, let's see if, if, if we can find an article about a topic that you might be interested in, a- and see what's in the digital archives for

35:23

[00 39:29.659 – 00:39:29.919] you.

35:24

[00 39:29.919 – 00:39:34.299] Let's say thank you, Roger.

35:26

[00 39:34.299 – 00:39:36.639] Yay, amazing.

35:27

[00 39:36.639 – 00:39:40.059] It's so fun, and it's so much fun following rabbit holes.

35:31

[00 39:40.059 – 00:39:42.059] And I got very ex- you saw me.

35:34

[00 39:42.059 – 00:39:50.779] I, my enthusiasm cannot be contained for some of this, and there was a couple of moments in there where I got very excited 'cause there was a couple of people I recognized.

35:46

[00 39:50.779 – 00:40:00.818] Um, so what I was thinking is we could take some names, and then maybe you could start a little bit of a rabbit hole dig for some people, um, based on,

35:57

[00 40:00.819 – 00:40:01.579] like, a topic.

35:59

[00 40:01.579 – 00:40:11.659] And then I could do a little bit of my, um, uh, of my, like, little talking about where, how people can access the archives, and talk a little bit about, um, how you can get the archives on the

36:13

[00 40:11.659 – 00:40:12.058] app.

36:13

[00 40:12.058 – 00:40:21.179] And I even pulled out a little example of my local history, uh, to show people s- 'cause I got so excited about how you were talking about your local history.

36:24

[00 40:21.179 – 00:40:22.719] And that'll give you a little time.

36:27

[00 40:22.719 – 00:40:25.859] Maybe you can find something fun, and then you can screen share what you found.

36:33

[00 40:25.859 – 00:40:26.979] How does that sound?

36:34

[00 40:26.979 – 00:40:28.379] Okay.

36:35

[00 40:28.379 – 00:40:28.899] Good deal.

36:36

[00 40:28.899 – 00:40:29.219] Yeah.

36:37

[00 40:29.219 – 00:40:31.259] And then you can show people the little trail.

36:40

[00 40:31.259 – 00:40:33.659] So, um, do we wanna put it...

36:43

[00 40:33.659 – 00:40:33.879] Oh.

36:44

[00 40:33.879 – 00:40:36.429] So as you...

36:45

[00 40:36.429 – 00:40:40.329] I can tell you exactly how to go down that rabbit hole.

36:49

[00 40:40.329 – 00:40:41.769] Tom Ford

36:51

[00 40:41.915 – 00:40:42.695] Let's do it.

36:52

[00 40:42.695 – 00:40:45.255] I saw it, and we're calling it.

36:55

[00 40:45.255 – 00:40:52.035] Roger, uh, do you know how to find Tom Powers in the, in the Grapevine archives?

37:00

[00 40:52.035 – 00:40:56.315] Well, let- May I suggest searching Hankins, New York?

37:04

[00 40:56.315 – 00:40:58.995] Can you spell that?

37:06

[00 40:58.995 – 00:41:03.355] Hankins, H-A-N-K-I-N-S.

37:07

[00 41:03.355 – 00:41:09.735] You can also search Tom P and Tom P Jr.

37:10

[00 41:09.735 – 00:41:12.015] Sorry, I got excited.

37:12

[00 41:12.015 – 00:41:18.755] So I was gonna do this next week a little bit, but you guys saved me from going on a real tangent, but okay.

37:21

[00 41:18.755 – 00:41:21.485] Uh, so in the meantime- You can keep going ...

37:24

[00 41:21.485 – 00:41:22.075] we'll leave you...

37:26

[00 41:22.075 – 00:41:31.275] Oh, I'm gonna switch over, and, uh, we're gonna just talk a little bit about how to do this, but let me, um, take over the screen sharing for a second.

37:37

[00 41:31.275 – 00:41:31.595] Okay.

37:37

[00 41:31.595 – 00:41:36.015] "Have fun." That's literally...

37:39

[00 41:36.015 – 00:41:41.065] Whoever said that just did my favorite thing ever, and, uh, to...

37:43

[00 41:41.065 – 00:41:41.515] Ever.

37:44

[00 41:41.515 – 00:41:42.535] Like, oh, gosh.

37:45

[00 41:42.535 – 00:41:43.805] Okay.

37:46

[00 41:43.805 – 00:41:54.185] Um, and this is what I love about doing recoveryspeakers.com because I don't know if we could do this on, like, let's say a, a podcast hosted

37:56

[00 41:54.185 – 00:41:58.095] by a wonderful, uh, organization.

37:58

[00 41:58.095 – 00:42:01.175] Uh, but, uh, we get to do this.

38:01

[00 42:01.175 – 00:42:03.015] This is a wonderful organization, but...

38:04

[00 42:03.015 – 00:42:04.595] Okay.

38:04

[00 42:04.595 – 00:42:10.295] Screen two, and, um, I'm just gonna share the screen 'cause I don't know how to do it like...

38:11

[00 42:10.295 – 00:42:11.375] Okay.

38:12

[00 42:11.375 – 00:42:12.135] Hi, everyone.

38:13

[00 42:12.135 – 00:42:13.435] Can you see?

38:14

[00 42:13.435 – 00:42:13.915] Okay.

38:15

[00 42:13.915 – 00:42:19.375] Sorry if I- I'm not hiding stuff the way I probably should, but I don't know how to do it.

38:22

[00 42:19.375 – 00:42:20.055] Let's see.

38:23

[00 42:20.055 – 00:42:21.055] Start from the beginning.

38:25

[00 42:21.055 – 00:42:22.615] Oh.

38:26

[00 42:22.615 – 00:42:23.735] No, I didn't wanna do that.

38:28

[00 42:23.735 – 00:42:24.475] Oh, sure.

38:29

[00 42:24.475 – 00:42:25.015] Okay.

38:30

[00 42:25.015 – 00:42:27.035] So this is really, um...

38:32

[00 42:27.035 – 00:42:29.955] I, I love this description of what the Grapevine is.

38:36

[00 42:29.955 – 00:42:31.595] This is the very first Grapevine.

38:38

[00 42:31.595 – 00:42:36.425] Um, and this was actually a letter that Bill wrote, um, to Royal S.

38:43

[00 42:36.425 – 00:42:40.675] Sometimes it gets attributed to Bill's very first article in the Grapevine, but that's not true.

38:49

[00 42:40.675 – 00:42:41.855] And you know how I found that out?

38:52

[00 42:41.855 – 00:42:50.655] I looked in the Grapevine, and not only is it not in Bill's Grapevine artic- it's not in any of Bill's Grapevine articles, and I confirmed.

39:01

[00 42:50.655 – 00:43:00.735] This is, uh, it actually is in, it was reprinted in 2001 in the Grapevine from a l- a letter that Bill wrote to Royal S, and that's a real fun person also to go

39:13

[00 43:00.735 – 00:43:02.015] down a rabbit hole around.

39:15

[00 43:02.015 – 00:43:09.535] Um, but Royal S., and he was a lawyer who wrote, um, uh, so the incorporated, he wrote the incorporation for the Grapevine.

39:24

[00 43:09.535 – 00:43:13.875] But he wrote this about the Grapevine, and this is still, uh, very true, and it's beautiful.

39:30

[00 43:13.875 – 00:43:17.155] "The Grapevine will be the voice of Alcoholics Anonymous's movement.

39:34

[00 43:17.155 – 00:43:22.335] Its editors and staff will be primarily accountable to the AA movement as a whole.

39:39

[00 43:22.335 – 00:43:30.675] Within the bounds of friendliness and good taste, the Grapevine will enjoy perfect freedom of speech on all matters directly pertaining to Alcoholics Anonymous.

39:48

[00 43:30.675 – 00:43:40.735] Like the Alcoholics Anonymous movement it is to mirror, there will be but one central purpose: the Grapevine will try to carry the AA message to alcoholics and practice the

39:58

[00 43:40.735 – 00:43:44.855] AA principles in all its affairs." Um, and it's still true.

40:02

[00 43:44.855 – 00:43:55.255] Um, it has, uh, the editor has, uh, editorial independence, and that's why it is a separate incorporation from AA World Services, so that it is always,

40:12

[00 43:55.255 – 00:43:56.755] um, has that independence.

40:14

[00 43:56.755 – 00:44:04.615] Um, you know, this, the stuff that's always in the magazine, the print magazine, we all, you know, the print magazine we know and love.

40:23

[00 44:04.615 – 00:44:06.195] The Grapevine app.

40:24

[00 44:06.195 – 00:44:16.235] So the Grapevine app, you know, you've got the different f- media forms, and there's much more than just the print magazine, than the, the website, um, availability, and the web

40:35

[00 44:16.235 – 00:44:17.855] exclusive, and even the app.

40:37

[00 44:17.855 – 00:44:21.795] There's the YouTu- there's a lot of free stuff that I'm not gonna go into.

40:43

[00 44:21.795 – 00:44:24.095] The app actually has a lot of free content.

40:46

[00 44:30.955 – 00:44:35.195] There's a customizable, like, spiritual toolkit you can use.

40:49

[00 44:35.195 – 00:44:36.575] You don't need a subscription to that.

40:52

[00 44:36.575 – 00:44:46.674] The only thing you need a subscription to access on the app itself is the current issue, some of the past issues, um, and the digital

41:01

[00 44:46.675 – 00:44:49.955] archives, and I think some of the audio stories as well.

41:06

[00 44:49.955 – 00:44:55.555] Um, but you can, um, um, you can use a sobriety counter.

41:10

[00 44:55.555 – 00:44:57.495] The daily quote you can get for free.

41:13

[00 44:57.495 – 00:45:02.135] Um, and like I said, the gratitude list, and the spiritual maintenance, all that stuff.

41:19

[00 45:02.135 – 00:45:07.275] So it's kind of cool that you can get that for free, and you can play around with it before even deciding to subscribe.

41:27

[00 45:07.275 – 00:45:17.355] The thing to know about the app is it's gonna use the same account that you have for your, if you have a print subscription or you had a print subscription, whatever, it's all gonna

41:40

[00 45:17.355 – 00:45:18.465] be all together.

41:41

[00 45:18.465 – 00:45:22.855] So whatever your account is for the Grapevine, you're gonna get one account, right?

41:46

[00 45:22.855 – 00:45:24.015] And that's, um...

41:47

[00 45:24.015 – 00:45:34.015] So just keep that in mind because I'm gonna have a suggestion about how to keep it simple, um, about if you decide what kind, if you do wanna get a subscription or if you already have a subscription and you wanna change

42:03

[00 45:34.015 – 00:45:34.295] it.

42:03

[00 45:34.295 – 00:45:44.315] Um, but, uh, the one thing I will say, if you're like me and things are kind of hard to read, um, the nice thing about the Grapevine app is that, and it works on a, a tablet,

42:17

[00 45:44.315 – 00:45:55.215] so if you're a person who likes to read on tablets, it does adjust font sizes, and so in that sense, it can be really, really handy for people who have a hard time reading the print in the magazine.

42:31

[00 45:55.215 – 00:46:01.735] Um, now you do have access to the archives in the, in the, um, Grapevine app.

42:37

[00 46:01.735 – 00:46:06.135] I like accessing, like, um, Roger did, on the computer.

42:40

[00 46:06.135 – 00:46:08.895] I'm not sure if he showed you how you can save articles.

42:45

[00 46:08.895 – 00:46:09.995] You can also print.

42:46

[00 46:09.995 – 00:46:15.995] I tend to, like, print things as PDFs or sometimes I'll email self, stuff from the digital archives.

42:53

[00 46:15.995 – 00:46:18.535] But you can also save to your account as well.

42:57

[00 46:18.535 – 00:46:25.555] Um, but, uh, the archives, so I tend to use it on a computer, but you can search the archives.

43:04

[00 46:25.555 – 00:46:35.615] And so if you wake up in the middle of the night, or let's say you can't sleep and you're having poor s- sleep hygiene, and you're doom scrolling, and you're like, "Instead of doom scrolling, I'm gonna

43:17

[00 46:35.615 – 00:46:38.475] look up to see if, um, Penny P.

43:20

[00 46:38.475 – 00:46:45.315] wrote anything, uh, in the '90s." You know what I mean?

43:25

[00 46:45.315 – 00:46:46.395] Like, seriously.

43:26

[00 46:46.395 – 00:46:48.015] Now I'm gonna, like, look up, you know what I mean?

43:30

[00 46:48.015 – 00:46:50.145] Like, ser- you know, things like that, you know.

43:34

[00 46:50.145 – 00:46:54.035] Or, "I wonder if someone from my home group," I mean, these kind of things in the middle of the night.

43:41

[00 46:54.035 – 00:46:55.955] You can search through the archives and then...

43:44

[00 46:55.955 – 00:46:59.935] So if you're gonna doom scroll, how about Grapevine scroll instead, okay?

43:49

[00 46:59.935 – 00:47:05.135] I'm gonna tell them to make that the new app, uh, slogan.

43:53

[00 47:05.135 – 00:47:08.075] But, um, so that's where it's located.

43:56

[00 47:08.075 – 00:47:10.555] You scroll down, and you can find it right there.

44:00

[00 47:10.555 – 00:47:13.195] Um, and yeah, there it is.

44:02

[00 47:13.195 – 00:47:15.955] Now this is kind of a little bit of what it looks like, right?

44:07

[00 47:15.955 – 00:47:22.575] Once you open up the archives, you can see that you can, there's a search bar, and you, and so Juanita.

44:15

[00 47:22.575 – 00:47:24.825] This is what, um, Roger reminded me of.

44:18

[00 47:24.825 – 00:47:26.405] So I literally just did this.

44:20

[00 47:26.405 – 00:47:28.685] I wrote Juanita, so I knew that this w-

44:24

[00 47:28.844 – 00:47:29.184] Show up.

44:25

[00 47:29.184 – 00:47:36.004] But, um, and then I always look oldest first because I like history, so I'm like, eh, I wanna see the oldest stuff first.

44:33

[00 47:36.004 – 00:47:38.544] And, oh, look, Frisco's derelicts.

44:35

[00 47:38.544 – 00:47:39.684] I'm in San Francisco.

44:37

[00 47:39.684 – 00:47:41.264] Mark year sobriety.

44:38

[00 47:41.264 – 00:47:49.544] Also, OKP, that's really interesting 'cause OKP was not only a central office manager in San Francisco, he was one of our delegates as well.

44:47

[00 47:49.544 – 00:47:52.044] And then, um, oops.

44:49

[00 47:52.044 – 00:47:55.704] Oh, and oh, look, Mark one year sobriety.

44:52

[00 47:55.704 – 00:47:57.544] And why is Juanita in there?

44:55

[00 47:57.544 – 00:47:59.824] Sometimes you have to hunt for the keyword in there.

44:58

[00 47:59.824 – 00:48:04.504] And so you can use search, you can do cities, uh, names, places like that.

45:04

[00 48:04.504 – 00:48:07.564] And when you search in it, I found Juanita's name.

45:08

[00 48:07.564 – 00:48:08.944] Now why is Juanita important?

45:10

[00 48:08.944 – 00:48:16.564] Juanita is a name that she would frequently come up in my archives in various places, and I knew she was an early woman in AA.

45:19

[00 48:16.564 – 00:48:22.844] One of the things I didn't know about her was that she founded our Skid Row group.

45:25

[00 48:22.844 – 00:48:25.564] And I found a picture of her.

45:28

[00 48:25.564 – 00:48:26.984] This is from our archives.

45:30

[00 48:26.984 – 00:48:34.143] So I didn't have her story, but once I found out, and I actually found out what her last initial was from the Grapevine.

45:38

[00 48:34.143 – 00:48:43.264] So once I knew what her last initial was, and I knew that she w- you know, about the time she lived in San Francisco 'cause she was writing in the Grapevine, I was able to do some genealogical history.

45:53

[00 48:43.264 – 00:48:51.444] She also wrote another article about relapse in the Grapevine, and I was able to use that to find out about her story.

46:01

[00 48:51.444 – 00:48:53.264] So that's an example.

46:02

[00 48:53.264 – 00:48:56.784] And I have some pictures, so, um, I wanted to show that.

46:07

[00 48:56.784 – 00:49:00.524] So anyway, I'll finish up so Roger can show you what he discovered.

46:12

[00 49:00.524 – 00:49:03.164] Um, but you know, here's the thing.

46:14

[00 49:03.164 – 00:49:12.364] If you can't afford it, I recommend the complete subscription because you can get the print magazine to give, to bring to your home group if your home group doesn't have one.

46:26

[00 49:12.364 – 00:49:15.764] Home groups, your group should have a, a print subscription.

46:30

[00 49:15.764 – 00:49:16.844] Groups used to have them.

46:32

[00 49:16.844 – 00:49:17.964] It's a great thing to give away.

46:34

[00 49:17.964 – 00:49:20.964] It's three dollars a month at, you know, at most.

46:38

[00 49:20.964 – 00:49:28.724] Um, but again, like, even if you don't wanna use the print subscription, you can leave it at a doctor's office, you can put it in a little library.

46:48

[00 49:28.724 – 00:49:30.464] Like, I don't think...

46:50

[00 49:30.464 – 00:49:33.124] I think there's tons of stuff to do with a print subscription.

46:55

[00 49:33.124 – 00:49:41.004] So if you get the complete subscription, you'll have the a- the online, the web, you'll have the digital archives in the app, you'll have it online.

47:04

[00 49:41.004 – 00:49:43.784] You'll have all the audio stories and all that.

47:08

[00 49:43.784 – 00:49:46.224] Um, and you don't wanna get it month by month.

47:11

[00 49:46.224 – 00:49:46.884] That's crazy.

47:13

[00 49:46.884 – 00:49:51.204] But you can get, here's the prices for one year, two year, three years.

47:18

[00 49:51.204 – 00:49:53.584] The digital subscription is combined.

47:20

[00 49:53.584 – 00:49:54.704] It's app and web.

47:21

[00 49:54.704 – 00:49:56.244] You don't get to choose app or web.

47:25

[00 49:56.244 – 00:49:57.624] You get both, so it's nice.

47:27

[00 49:57.624 – 00:50:00.844] But y- that means if you want the app and you don't want the web, fine.

47:33

[00 50:00.844 – 00:50:10.284] I recommend if you've ever had a app, a online sc- subscription or if you've ever had a print subscription, do it online because it's easier.

47:42

[00 50:10.284 – 00:50:11.964] If you do it on the app, it's harder.

47:45

[00 50:11.964 – 00:50:13.504] Uh, that's all I can explain.

47:48

[00 50:13.504 – 00:50:19.344] But if you ever wanna just get the app and never deal with the online, then sign up online.

47:55

[00 50:19.344 – 00:50:24.504] But if you're thinking about using a print on your computer, sign up on the computer.

48:01

[00 50:24.504 – 00:50:25.624] I hope that makes sense.

48:03

[00 50:25.624 – 00:50:35.624] But I've discovered that signing up on the computer is a little easier, and then you'll be able to download the app, and then you can use the same login for the online, on the

48:15

[00 50:35.624 – 00:50:37.484] online account as you would on the app.

48:18

[00 50:37.484 – 00:50:39.444] And that's the cost.

48:20

[00 50:39.444 – 00:50:46.984] And then here are your print subscriptions if you just want it, and this is the classic pass it on tool.

48:27

[00 50:46.984 – 00:50:48.984] You can't pass on an app.

48:30

[00 50:48.984 – 00:50:55.244] You can't, you can maybe email someone a PDF of the Grapevine article.

48:35

[00 50:55.244 – 00:50:55.664] You gotta...

48:36

[00 50:55.664 – 00:50:58.024] No, I mean, this is the way to do it.

48:39

[00 50:58.024 – 00:51:08.324] The other thing I wanna say, if you have an online group, if you get an, uh, a, a, an online subscription, um, to the, uh, Grapevine, you not only get...

48:50

[00 51:08.324 – 00:51:15.144] The thing, when you have the access to the digital archives, you have an access to every single Grapevine book the Grapevine has published.

48:59

[00 51:15.144 – 00:51:21.624] So I was just talking to a women's group, and they were thinking about reading Voices of Women in Recovery, and they were an online meeting.

49:08

[00 51:21.624 – 00:51:25.024] And they were trying to think about how they were gonna get books and, and share them.

49:14

[00 51:25.024 – 00:51:35.344] And I was like, "You know you guys can just get the Grapevine digital arc- you know, the, the Grapevine, um, subscription and then screen share the articles and just follow

49:25

[00 51:35.344 – 00:51:36.224] along in the book.

49:27

[00 51:36.224 – 00:51:44.344] You just see where it is in the book and then find that." And they were like, "Oh," and I'm like, "And then you can read any book you want from the Grapevine," you know?

49:39

[00 51:44.344 – 00:51:54.544] So again, if you have an online meeting, especially if you meet, like, every day or very frequently, it's a great opportunity to get a subscription for your group

49:50

[00 51:54.544 – 00:51:57.084] and talk to them and then switch up the literature you read.

49:54

[00 51:57.084 – 00:51:58.944] And then you can read Language of the Heart.

49:58

[00 51:58.944 – 00:52:00.584] You don't have to get an e-reader.

50:00

[00 52:00.584 – 00:52:02.604] You don't have to buy constant books.

50:03

[00 52:02.604 – 00:52:05.464] You can literally have access to every Bill W.

50:07

[00 52:05.464 – 00:52:09.224] article he wrote, every single article in every single Grapevine book ever.

50:11

[00 52:09.224 – 00:52:11.964] So, um, it's a great deal.

50:13

[00 52:11.964 – 00:52:13.664] And, um, so yeah.

50:15

[00 52:13.664 – 00:52:14.594] So you have all that.

50:17

[00 52:14.594 – 00:52:17.004] But if you wanna be old school, go for it.

50:21

[00 52:17.004 – 00:52:19.024] So this is your opportunity.

50:23

[00 52:19.024 – 00:52:24.684] I will put links in the chat, but if you wanna pull out your phone, pull out your phone.

50:30

[00 52:24.684 – 00:52:26.394] Here are some QR codes.

50:32

[00 52:26.394 – 00:52:30.314] Remember, you can always think about doing it later or you can do it now.

50:37

[00 52:30.314 – 00:52:34.624] And the Grapevine really does exist on, because of subscriptions.

50:41

[00 52:34.624 – 00:52:36.104] We do know they, they need our help.

50:44

[00 52:36.104 – 00:52:40.944] And again, think about it from the perspective of, for me, this is the history.

50:50

[00 52:40.944 – 00:52:43.744] Now, Ernest Kurtz was mentioned by Roger.

50:53

[00 52:43.744 – 00:52:49.324] So, you know, Ernest Kurtz said the history of AA exists at the local level.

50:58

[00 52:49.324 – 00:52:53.824] This is how, again, we keep the history.

51:01

[00 52:53.824 – 00:52:59.704] This is how we discover our local histories, and this is how we continue to preserve our local history.

51:08

[00 52:59.704 – 00:53:03.964] I can't s- you're gonna hear me speak next week about how passionate I am about the Grapevine.

51:15

[00 53:03.964 – 00:53:04.744] You guys know it.

51:16

[00 53:04.744 – 00:53:11.284] But again, I, I can't speak enough about how important the Grapevine is for people who love and appreciate AA history.

51:24

[00 53:11.284 – 00:53:21.404] So if there's no other reason to support the Grapevine other than because of your love for AA history and how you want to continue to preserve AA history, whether or not

51:35

[00 53:21.404 – 00:53:30.404] you think every article, even if you think it's only one article out of every 20, that one article out of 20 is worth preserving.

51:43

[00 53:30.404 – 00:53:34.184] 'Cause we don't get to decide which part of history is important, right?

51:48

[00 53:34.184 – 00:53:38.744] Our job is just to make sure that it's preserved and then it's, it's kept, right?

51:54

[00 53:38.744 – 00:53:46.564] Nelwing used to pull papers out of Bill W.'s trash can, 'cause he didn't think what he was, he was doing was special, right?

52:03

[00 53:46.564 – 00:53:48.244] Um, here's my phone number.

52:05

[00 53:48.244 – 00:53:52.084] Um, uh, uh, I mean, here's a phone number.

52:08

[00 53:52.084 – 00:54:02.144] And I'm sure this person who, um, works, you know, in a place perhaps at a central office somewhere would be very happy to

52:17

[00 54:02.144 – 00:54:05.944] help you if you struggle with signing up on things online.

52:21

[00 54:05.944 – 00:54:15.674] And if you want to, and I'm not customer service for the Grapevine, but I might be willing to help you subscribe if you t- want to give me your credit ca-

52:32

[00 54:15.800 – 00:54:16.580] Information.

52:33

[00 54:16.580 – 00:54:22.280] Um, and lastly, let's say you're just like, "I have no interest, Jackie.

52:38

[00 54:22.280 – 00:54:28.520] Leave me alone." How would you feel about sponsoring the Grapevine, a print subscription for someone who is in custody?

52:45

[00 54:28.520 – 00:54:37.160] I think you should think about that, 'cause at the very least we do know that it is really well appreciated when, for people who are in, in custody.

52:55

[00 54:37.160 – 00:54:41.499] So that is important.

52:57

[00 54:41.499 – 00:54:43.679] W- we have five minutes, right, Tim?

53:00

[00 54:43.679 – 00:54:48.980] Do we have t- five minutes to go over and then we can maybe stick around and hear a little bit about, um, more...

53:08

[00 54:48.980 – 00:54:51.500] I want to give Roger a chance to see what he found.

53:13

[00 54:51.500 – 00:54:54.400] Thank you, guys.

53:14

[00 54:54.400 – 00:54:57.820] And I'll put links in the chat.

53:17

[00 54:57.820 – 00:55:00.140] Okay, did I stop screen sharing?

53:19

[00 55:00.140 – 00:55:03.040] Uh, not yet.

53:21

[00 55:03.040 – 00:55:05.080] Please, please stop it.

53:23

[00 55:05.080 – 00:55:05.980] I can't figure out...

53:24

[00 55:05.980 – 00:55:06.540] Why can't I...

53:26

[00 55:06.540 – 00:55:07.100] Oh, there it is.

53:27

[00 55:07.100 – 00:55:10.040] As if I've never done Zoom before.

53:30

[00 55:10.040 – 00:55:10.759] Okay.

53:31

[00 55:10.759 – 00:55:14.980] Okay.

53:31

[00 55:14.980 – 00:55:15.760] Let's see.

53:33

[00 55:15.760 – 00:55:18.040] So here's what I found.

53:35

[00 55:18.040 – 00:55:23.780] Um, share.

53:36

[00 55:23.780 – 00:55:33.840] Uh, I found an article from June of '96, an update from, uh, a Big Book story author,

53:42

[00 55:33.840 – 00:55:44.040] and you gotta go pretty deep into the article, um, to find out that, um, he

53:48

[00 55:44.040 – 00:55:48.340] moved to Hankins, New York to be near Tom P.

53:52

[00 55:48.340 – 00:55:58.340] At an IDA meeting in 1968, Tom had taught him re- repetitive prayer, "The Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me." And so, uh, some

54:00

[00 55:58.340 – 00:55:58.920] Christian...

54:01

[00 55:58.920 – 00:56:02.380] You know, that's, that's sort of, uh...

54:04

[00 56:02.380 – 00:56:07.980] If you've heard Tom's story on Recovery Speakers, um, that, that tracks.

54:08

[00 56:07.980 – 00:56:08.700] That makes sense.

54:10

[00 56:08.700 – 00:56:11.280] Um, Tom had been sponsored by Bill.

54:12

[00 56:11.280 – 00:56:12.980] So that's really all I found.

54:15

[00 56:12.980 – 00:56:21.260] Um, if you look for Tom Powers by first and last name, you get a, a...

54:21

[00 56:21.260 – 00:56:22.700] I'm not sure.

54:22

[00 56:22.700 – 00:56:24.060] There's no specific.

54:23

[00 56:24.060 – 00:56:25.760] I tried Tom P.

54:25

[00 56:25.760 – 00:56:34.560] If you change it to newest to oldest you'll see that the majority of searches, the word power comes up a lot.

54:33

[00 56:34.560 – 00:56:37.160] And so not...

54:34

[00 56:37.160 – 00:56:47.340] Take a little bit more digging to find out if, if, if Tom wrote any articles or there's any information about him,

54:42

[00 56:47.340 – 00:56:50.360] or it points to another source perhaps.

54:45

[00 56:50.360 – 00:57:00.440] Um, so we'll, maybe we'll try it again next week, uh, and, and see what happens, or we'll try a, um, a different search engine and

54:54

[00 57:00.440 – 00:57:04.580] maybe we'll have a good idea during the Q&A.

54:58

[00 57:04.580 – 00:57:11.020] So I just, I'm gonna stop there and, uh, and turn it back over to Tim so we can, we can see what people wanna talk about.

55:08

[00 57:11.020 – 00:57:15.960] Thank you so much, Roger and Jackie.

55:10

[00 57:15.960 – 00:57:17.440] You guys did a great job.

55:13

[00 57:17.440 – 00:57:26.820] And, uh, I know that we've had, uh, some comments and questions or topics in the chat.

55:19

[00 57:26.820 – 00:57:28.620] I will make sure that we save that.

55:22

[00 57:28.620 – 00:57:33.340] And, um, I'm ready to go into questions.

55:25

[00 57:33.340 – 00:57:35.460] First, we have, uh, Jennifer.

55:27

[00 57:35.460 – 00:57:45.640] And, um, please when you're asking your question, please, uh, keep it to just a question, and it would be helpful maybe if it's steered towards

55:36

[00 57:45.640 – 00:57:48.930] Roger or Jackie, or to either of them to answer.

55:40

[00 57:48.930 – 00:57:51.520] And Jennifer, you can take it away.

55:43

[00 57:51.520 – 00:57:53.360] Okay.

55:44

[00 57:53.360 – 00:57:56.760] Yes, I put it in the chat.

55:46

[00 57:56.760 – 00:57:57.820] All right?

55:47

[00 57:57.820 – 00:57:59.960] So here we go.

55:49

[00 57:59.960 – 00:58:01.140] All right.

55:50

[00 58:01.140 – 00:58:04.480] Prof- I don't think you're gonna find anything in Grapevine.

55:54

[00 58:04.480 – 00:58:09.440] Professor Brown, if somebody wants to type Jackie, you got it.

55:58

[00 58:09.440 – 00:58:10.320] All right.

55:59

[00 58:10.320 – 00:58:15.000] But w- you know, Seabury Graves, you know, we know, some of us know off the bat who that is, Roland Hazard.

56:07

[00 58:15.000 – 00:58:19.640] But Professor Brown, and he was with Hazard.

56:10

[00 58:19.640 – 00:58:20.640] I don't know how much is in there.

56:13

[00 58:20.640 – 00:58:23.520] I w- I'd like to do this myself if I had it again.

56:18

[00 58:23.520 – 00:58:26.720] But see if you get anything under Professor Brown.

56:21

[00 58:26.720 – 00:58:28.880] And he, I'll just tell you who he was.

56:25

[00 58:28.880 – 00:58:33.060] Roland Hazard and him and Seabury Graves were involved.

56:28

[00 58:33.060 – 00:58:34.780] They brought the message to Ebby here.

56:31

[00 58:34.780 – 00:58:43.520] And I hope to be doing a talk soon, because I wanna just thank the, Roger, I lo- I also put in the chat, I love your term rabbit holes.

56:42

[00 58:43.520 – 00:58:48.100] I love going deep into them and doing this stuff.

56:45

[00 58:48.100 – 00:58:51.760] So let me know if you get anything right now, because I don't have it anymore.

56:51

[00 58:51.760 – 00:58:57.040] If you get anything under Professor Brown, or maybe even Seabury Graves and Roland.

56:56

[00 58:57.040 – 00:59:01.960] Uh, I would expect Roland Hazard and Seabury Graves, but not Professor Brown.

57:01

[00 59:01.960 – 00:59:03.260] Thank you.

57:02

[00 59:03.260 – 00:59:05.260] Thank you.

57:03

[00 59:05.260 – 00:59:06.360] We'll check it out.

57:05

[00 59:06.360 – 00:59:09.140] Thank you, Jennifer.

57:06

[00 59:09.140 – 00:59:11.640] And next is Marty.

57:08

[00 59:11.640 – 00:59:13.940] You can unmute and ask your question.

57:11

[00 59:13.940 – 00:59:17.180] Unmute moved.

57:12

[00 59:17.180 – 00:59:19.420] Marty, recovered alcoholic.

57:13

[00 59:19.420 – 00:59:20.900] Wow, Roger, thank you.

57:15

[00 59:20.900 – 00:59:23.200] I mean, and, uh, Jackie too.

57:17

[00 59:23.200 – 00:59:33.360] So I did put in the chat, uh, because I've been trying, I'm in the archivist Area 49, and I've been trying to inspire the counties, my service

57:27

[00 59:33.360 – 00:59:38.080] sponsors suggested, to encourage them to look for meetings in their county.

57:31

[00 59:38.080 – 00:59:41.180] In our Area 49, we have county, uh, level.

57:35

[00 59:41.180 – 00:59:43.839] I think we're only two areas in the United States.

57:38

[00 59:43.839 – 00:59:46.900] So I thought it would be fun, you know, to look and see.

57:43

[00 59:46.900 – 00:59:55.760] They could build a photo album, and then new people would take photos of their group once they see that and it might encourage, you know, stuff like that.

57:53

[00 59:55.760 – 01:00:05.980] So, uh, maybe, I don't know if you searched now, but I found in the 2000 December, uh, pretty quick I got my hands on, you know, the physical copies that are in our storage

58:05

[01 00:05.980 – 01:00:09.580] repository, and I found that one, If The Walls Could Talk.

58:10

[01 00:09.580 – 01:00:16.740] They were asking, it says for some time, for photos, uh, so I gotta go now 1999 and...

58:16

[01 00:16.740 – 01:00:17.980] But this is great.

58:17

[01 00:28.260 – 01:00:32.700] 'Cause the physical copies are great too, but they're bulky and it's taking up room.

58:23

[01 00:32.700 – 01:00:36.140] So maybe, uh, I don't know if you have time to search that, or I'll give you a call.

58:30

[01 00:36.140 – 01:00:38.400] I like that your profile was in the...

58:33

[01 00:38.400 – 01:00:42.870] Thank you for your, uh, you know, what you, your presentation, both of you tonight.

58:38

[01 00:42.870 – 01:00:43.370] Thank you.

58:39

[01 00:43.370 – 01:00:44.240] I wanna just say this too.

58:42

[01 00:44.240 – 01:00:49.460] I was sober in 1987 and I found in 1985, it found me, that's how my God works.

58:48

[01 00:49.460 – 01:00:51.880] Uh, the, uh, Montreal Convention.

58:50

[01 00:51.880 – 01:01:01.060] And I remember, you know, uh, thinking AA was only in Canarsie, 'cause that's where my parents thought it was, 'cause that's where they gave me the car, but I never went to the meeting.

59:02

[01 01:01.060 – 01:01:02.610] But to see that 60,000 pe-

59:04

[01 01:03.196 – 01:01:06.016] And ever since then, I've been in love with the, uh, the Grapevine.

59:09

[01 01:06.016 – 01:01:07.056] Thank you very much.

59:11

[01 01:07.056 – 01:01:09.056] Hey Oh, no problem.

59:12

[01 01:09.056 – 01:01:09.796] That's lovely.

59:13

[01 01:09.796 – 01:01:14.036] I mean, I will say that, um, I agree with you.

59:17

[01 01:14.036 – 01:01:17.416] I think that, uh, the total subscriptions are great.

59:21

[01 01:17.416 – 01:01:27.816] Um, very, like I said, very useful, particularly for archives committees, um, 'cause they can work really well to, like, help find things and then go into the physical

59:31

[01 01:27.816 – 01:01:28.456] ones.

59:32

[01 01:28.456 – 01:01:29.636] I think the print ones are really...

59:35

[01 01:29.636 – 01:01:39.676] The one thing that the digital archives don't have yet, and again, like, a lot of it has to do with cost, ke- scanning the Grapevine collections are

59:45

[01 01:39.676 – 01:01:40.576] very costly.

59:46

[01 01:40.576 – 01:01:46.696] Um, and, you know, and so, and right now the Grapevine staff is, they're really trying to stay lean and mean.

59:53

[01 01:46.696 – 01:01:52.216] Um, and the Grapevine, I don't believe they have their own archives, like archivist right now.

59:59

[01 01:52.216 – 01:01:55.496] So they did a lot of work to get the archives put on.

60:04

[01 01:55.496 – 01:02:05.676] But, um, so I'm very lucky at the San Francisco Marin Intergroup Archives, I have access to all the archives, uh, and literally can go grab some right

60:14

[01 02:05.676 – 01:02:06.336] now.

60:14

[01 02:06.336 – 01:02:07.676] So it's amazing.

60:16

[01 02:07.676 – 01:02:17.716] So, like, um, continue making sure that, like, you, you get those because, um, especially having access to the pictures and the layouts, and I love the old

60:26

[01 02:17.716 – 01:02:21.326] illustrations, um, they're really, really, really special.

60:29

[01 02:21.326 – 01:02:28.536] So I think, um, what's really nice about the digital archives is they've also really made the, um, the issues available now.

60:36

[01 02:28.536 – 01:02:38.576] So before you could kind of look at the month and the year, but they weren't quite organized by the issues, and now you can get a better sense of how the issues were organized, and th- that's a really nice change.

60:51

[01 02:38.576 – 01:02:40.536] So, um, yeah.

60:53

[01 02:40.536 – 01:02:45.056] Thank you, Marty, for the question.

60:55

[01 02:45.056 – 01:02:46.596] And next is Gary.

60:57

[01 02:46.596 – 01:02:47.536] You can unmute.

60:58

[01 02:47.536 – 01:02:49.836] I know someone who's done research in there.

61:01

[01 02:49.836 – 01:02:52.296] Nice to see you.

61:03

[01 02:52.296 – 01:02:53.056] Hi.

61:04

[01 02:53.056 – 01:02:54.176] Yes, Roger.

61:05

[01 02:54.176 – 01:03:00.416] I haven't seen you two together since probably, uh, the, it was the second or third Sedona, and it's good to see both of you.

61:14

[01 03:00.416 – 01:03:04.896] And this is a not so much a question, but it's a different approach.

61:19

[01 03:04.896 – 01:03:10.996] All the time people are being asked to write their story to the Grapevine, which I've done.

61:25

[01 03:10.996 – 01:03:11.626] Mm-hmm.

61:26

[01 03:11.626 – 01:03:21.856] Now, when you do sign one over, and I, I just wrote a article recently, they even have it in the form that you sign over the copyright of what you wrote,

61:37

[01 03:21.856 – 01:03:22.156] okay?

61:38

[01 03:22.156 – 01:03:30.236] And when you do that, they have the freedom to change the, uh, article in any way that they see fit.

61:45

[01 03:30.236 – 01:03:35.376] So they did that with a article that I wrote back in 2012.

61:50

[01 03:35.376 – 01:03:35.666] Mm.

61:50

[01 03:35.666 – 01:03:45.776] In that article, there was actually some straight AA history, you see, that never should have been edited what, uh, to begin with because it was straight

62:00

[01 03:45.776 – 01:03:46.776] AA history.

62:01

[01 03:46.776 – 01:03:47.136] Mm.

62:02

[01 03:47.136 – 01:03:48.816] And, uh, so when...

62:03

[01 03:48.816 – 01:03:51.296] And I found that out when the print copy came out.

62:07

[01 03:51.296 – 01:03:51.456] Mm.

62:08

[01 03:51.456 – 01:04:01.576] And I, then I went to the Grapevine, um, editor after my article was written in print and had them correct, so

62:16

[01 04:01.576 – 01:04:05.676] the online version is correct but the print version is wrong.

62:20

[01 04:05.676 – 01:04:15.676] Uh, but I, I, I, the, y- when you're looking at the online archives, you're actually, you're looking at the correct version of it, and I just thought that that might be of interest that

62:32

[01 04:15.676 – 01:04:21.976] you can correct a online version if you're the author but you can't do that with a print version.

62:39

[01 04:21.976 – 01:04:25.676] I, and I just thought that might be worthwhile pointing that out.

62:44

[01 04:25.676 – 01:04:26.696] Yes.

62:44

[01 04:26.696 – 01:04:28.756] And, um, when was this again?

62:47

[01 04:28.756 – 01:04:33.076] 'Cause I, I do have- Uh, the article's Letters From My Father, which is in, uh...

62:53

[01 04:33.076 – 01:04:34.916] It's a 2012 article.

62:54

[01 04:34.916 – 01:04:35.996] 2012.

62:54

[01 04:35.996 – 01:04:39.096] So was, was John the editor at that point or was it someone else?

63:00

[01 04:39.096 – 01:04:41.656] You're asking me, uh, something I've forgotten.

63:02

[01 04:41.656 – 01:04:41.996] Okay.

63:03

[01 04:41.996 – 01:04:42.656] Oh, no.

63:04

[01 04:42.656 – 01:04:43.256] Well, I can't...

63:05

[01 04:43.256 – 01:04:44.396] I think he might have been.

63:08

[01 04:44.396 – 01:04:54.616] The reason why I'm saying is 'cause, uh, the Grapevine actually is very hesitant to, uh, publish history articles for this reason, because they're not in a position to vet.

63:18

[01 04:54.616 – 01:04:55.216] And, like, someone...

63:20

[01 04:55.216 – 01:04:57.736] They, they just had an article about Marty M.

63:23

[01 04:57.736 – 01:05:02.156] from someone and, uh, like, it took a lo- you know, and they had to, like...

63:29

[01 05:02.156 – 01:05:04.256] And so, like, from you, it's great, right?

63:32

[01 05:04.256 – 01:05:08.016] But like, you know, like, but there are other people, and then they have this thing, right?

63:38

[01 05:08.016 – 01:05:13.256] If they edit and they might change something, or they might publish something from someone who they don't know who the sources are.

63:47

[01 05:13.256 – 01:05:19.996] So actually, this has been the thing that, like, Roger, uh, I've talked to them about, is like, I'm like, "You know, the Fellowship loves history.

63:56

[01 05:19.996 – 01:05:21.195] Like, you probably...

63:57

[01 05:21.195 – 01:05:29.276] Like, if you had more history in it." And they're like, "Well, we're really, we're not in a..." You know, they're not in a good position to, to put history articles that people write in it.

64:10

[01 05:29.276 – 01:05:31.916] Um, even, you know, like markings used to...

64:13

[01 05:31.916 – 01:05:34.756] Ugh, not having markings is such a tragedy to me.

64:17

[01 05:34.756 – 01:05:38.326] As it used to be the, uh, GSO archives used to have a newsletter.

64:22

[01 05:38.326 – 01:05:43.066] Um, if anyone wants to make a proposed agenda item, I'm sure that- So there's actually- ...

64:28

[01 05:43.066 – 01:05:44.436] there's so much money running around.

64:30

[01 05:44.436 – 01:05:50.796] There's actually a long forgotten, um, advisory action that says we should have a history section.

64:36

[01 05:50.796 – 01:05:53.236] So they've been told to do that.

64:39

[01 05:53.236 – 01:05:54.126] Yeah.

64:39

[01 05:54.126 – 01:05:56.316] What's interesting about that agenda- Oh ...

64:42

[01 05:56.316 – 01:06:03.596] or that, that advisory action is it was one of those years, and it's been a con- you know, the gray pages, the about alcoholism.

64:51

[01 06:03.596 – 01:06:10.416] Uh, and so a committee, and I can't remember the year now, w- didn't want it to be any...

64:58

[01 06:10.416 – 01:06:13.176] They wanted to replace that with a history section.

65:01

[01 06:13.176 – 01:06:13.866] Mm.

65:02

[01 06:13.866 – 01:06:23.976] And instead of proposing or recommending that we do that, they wanted it to not be a, "Well, I like that idea, but I, I'm voting against it." They had two, two

65:13

[01 06:23.976 – 01:06:24.976] recommendations.

65:14

[01 06:24.976 – 01:06:25.836] Yeah.

65:14

[01 06:25.836 – 01:06:30.816] Remove alcoholism at large, or whatever it was called then, and add a history section.

65:20

[01 06:30.816 – 01:06:37.816] And the remove alcoholism at large didn't get the two-thirds, but the add a history section did.

65:26

[01 06:37.816 – 01:06:48.336] And but over time, when I was on the Grapevine committee at the conference, they, uh, we asked the publisher and he said, "There's not enough

65:35

[01 06:48.336 – 01:06:58.536] history, uh, articles that come in." Which is interesting based on the conversation we just had, um, and the, and the need to fact-check them before you publish- I agree.

65:46

[01 06:58.536 – 01:06:59.185] I think it- ...

65:47

[01 06:59.185 – 01:06:59.486] things that are remembered ...

65:49

[01 06:59.486 – 01:07:01.196] I think it actually would not be a good idea.

65:53

[01 07:01.196 – 01:07:05.576] The Fellowship is too, is too eager to pass on things they hear.

65:58

[01 07:05.576 – 01:07:09.966] So I'm all for, like, the Grapevine not being into fact-checking.

66:02

[01 07:09.966 – 01:07:10.906] But I, I would love- Sure ...

66:04

[01 07:10.906 – 01:07:14.196] them, for, for them to, like, reprint, like, older stuff.

66:08

[01 07:14.196 – 01:07:18.836] So, uh, we've definitely talked to them about, like, reprinting, you know, articles of note.

66:14

[01 07:18.836 – 01:07:22.516] But even then, like, the editor is like, they wanna be the current voice.

66:19

[01 07:22.516 – 01:07:28.296] So, like, nerds like me and Roger are like, "You could print some more of the history stuff," but, you know- Right ...

66:27

[01 07:28.296 – 01:07:30.746] then it would lose its, its point- Right ...

66:30

[01 07:30.746 – 01:07:32.216] which is to be the voice of today.

66:33

[01 07:32.216 – 01:07:42.256] There's one thing I wanted to mention, is, uh, what I noticed, like, you, you can see the facts, you can see the, the, the words on the page, and you can read the article, but

66:45

[01 07:42.256 – 01:07:47.516] in context, what I saw over time was there's always been this spirit of cooperation.

66:51

[01 07:47.516 – 01:07:48.876] There's a lot of letters-

66:53

[01 07:50.112 – 01:07:59.512] Correspondence between AAWS, between the general service office and the fellowship that somehow got published in Grapevine as relevant.

67:00

[01 07:59.512 – 01:08:08.532] Um, there's the whole story that I share about, um, the young man who was, uh, w- killed in the explosion in Beirut trying to start an AA group.

67:10

[01 08:08.532 – 01:08:08.582] Mm-hmm.

67:11

[01 08:08.582 – 01:08:12.252] And the, the meeting place and the literature was destroyed, and he lost his life.

67:16

[01 08:12.252 – 01:08:20.442] That whole correspondence was between him and the general service office as he worked to, to start that group.

67:23

[01 08:20.442 – 01:08:24.772] And then it became a Best of Grapevine Volume 1 story.

67:27

[01 08:24.772 – 01:08:28.232] And so I see th- And I kept seeing that over and over again.

67:32

[01 08:28.232 – 01:08:38.232] I don't see it as much in the more modern times, but, um, but it's a terrific, uh, spirit of cooperation between the two corporations that, that you really notice in the

67:43

[01 08:38.232 – 01:08:45.632] early days when, when there was, uh, you know, vol- Grapevine was all volunteers basically, but anyway, that's all.

67:50

[01 08:45.632 – 01:08:49.152] Elise, I guess.

67:52

[01 08:49.152 – 01:08:50.092] Thank you.

67:53

[01 08:50.092 – 01:08:52.912] And Elise, you can unmute and ask your question.

67:56

[01 08:52.912 – 01:08:55.292] Thank you.

67:57

[01 08:55.292 – 01:08:57.072] Thank you so much Jackie and Roger.

68:00

[01 08:57.072 – 01:08:59.112] I really appreciate your presentations.

68:02

[01 08:59.112 – 01:09:09.432] Jackie, you mentioned that, uh, people in custody really appreciate subscriptions, and I'm wondering if it's,

68:08

[01 09:09.432 – 01:09:20.392] uh, if that carries as much weight now that we put all of our literature, Grapevine and AAWS, on tablets available in

68:16

[01 09:20.392 – 01:09:20.892] prisons.

68:16

[01 09:20.892 – 01:09:23.812] I guess I don't know how- Well, the, yes.

68:20

[01 09:23.812 – 01:09:25.242] So- How much ...

68:21

[01 09:25.242 – 01:09:26.552] or in jails, but in prisons.

68:24

[01 09:26.552 – 01:09:27.572] Exactly.

68:24

[01 09:27.572 – 01:09:28.432] Exactly.

68:25

[01 09:28.432 – 01:09:38.772] Tablets are only available to people in prisons, and there's actually a lot more people even held for years in, in jails than there are in prisons.

68:35

[01 09:38.772 – 01:09:40.352] So a lot of people...

68:37

[01 09:40.352 – 01:09:43.152] I mean, and I, as someone who's in an, um...

68:40

[01 09:43.152 – 01:09:46.112] So again, uh, if you can't tell, I, I work at an intergroup.

68:45

[01 09:46.112 – 01:09:49.932] I'm a special worker, um, and um, at a central office.

68:49

[01 09:49.932 – 01:09:58.092] And, um, you know, the thing is, like w- we actually have a really hard time getting literature into the county jails.

68:57

[01 09:58.092 – 01:10:08.132] Like, there's an H&I meeting and, but like, when people, like even in terms of like, um, like n- the, there's really hard for even the people there

69:08

[01 10:08.132 – 01:10:08.872] to get into them.

69:09

[01 10:08.872 – 01:10:11.612] There's a longer wait list to get into the meetings that are there.

69:14

[01 10:11.612 – 01:10:17.212] You can only get the literature if you're at those meetings, versus the prison libraries have better access.

69:21

[01 10:17.212 – 01:10:20.072] And then there's a limit on how many books you can...

69:25

[01 10:20.072 – 01:10:23.372] You can only get two books at a time into a county jail.

69:30

[01 10:23.372 – 01:10:29.472] So there's a limit on how many books you can get, versus like the Grapevines are lighter, so it's easier for them to get in there.

69:39

[01 10:29.472 – 01:10:37.192] So it's just a, a much e- it's much easier to get the, like something light and, like the Grapevine into the county jails.

69:47

[01 10:37.192 – 01:10:47.232] Um, but um, even in the prisons, like the tablets are nice, but like there is something, um, again, you're not getting the pictures, you're not getting, um, you're getting, you can get

69:59

[01 10:47.232 – 01:10:50.152] the, the visuals a little bit with the, the tablets.

70:03

[01 10:50.152 – 01:10:55.282] But there are just people who get, um, a nice experience out of the, the print magazines.

70:09

[01 10:55.282 – 01:11:01.172] And so, um, and again, the other thing that you can get is like they can get handed really well.

70:16

[01 11:01.172 – 01:11:11.292] And so I still think, you know, there is something in today's world, I'm gonna just put this here, where there's a friction that exists between telling pe- even me here

70:27

[01 11:11.292 – 01:11:11.692] now.

70:28

[01 11:11.692 – 01:11:15.832] If I was there and I was able to hand you a Grapevine, you guys might think about it, right?

70:35

[01 11:15.832 – 01:11:19.852] Um, but here I'm having to tell you guys, "Here, cl- you know, scan the code.

70:41

[01 11:19.852 – 01:11:21.752] No, please lift up your phone.

70:43

[01 11:21.752 – 01:11:31.842] Please scan this code and then press a couple of buttons or maybe click on this link." There's all this extra friction involved, you know, in getting people to do stuff versus

70:55

[01 11:31.842 – 01:11:42.232] if I handed you a magazine, you might actually really like sit there and think, "Okay, I'll take a look at it." And so there, it's, it's just, uh, the extra steps involved are a little tougher.

71:08

[01 11:42.232 – 01:11:46.292] So, um, I don't know if that makes sense to people, but, um, yeah.

71:13

[01 11:46.292 – 01:11:50.492] So there's, uh, just a lot, it's harder to pass on a tablet.

71:18

[01 11:50.492 – 01:11:50.932] It's hard.

71:19

[01 11:50.932 – 01:11:52.452] Uh, we love the app.

71:21

[01 11:52.452 – 01:11:58.212] I think the app is great for members, but I think the, as a 12 step tool, the print magazine's really important.

71:28

[01 11:58.212 – 01:12:02.232] Do jails have chaplains like prisons do?

71:31

[01 12:02.232 – 01:12:04.232] Yes, I believe so.

71:33

[01 12:04.232 – 01:12:06.832] That's often a way to- Hospitals too.

71:36

[01 12:06.832 – 01:12:09.912] Hospitals, actually, Grapevines are great for waiting rooms.

71:39

[01 12:09.912 – 01:12:15.532] And the chaplains, we have a ch- local chaplain, they love like pocket big books, but you know, things like Grapevine.

71:46

[01 12:15.532 – 01:12:21.692] And I love the big book too, but like, again, the big book can be really hard for people to read, and the plain language is really big.

71:56

[01 12:21.692 – 01:12:30.132] And the Grapevine can be really nice as a nice simple light, less intimidating thing for people to read than a jo- a book.

72:05

[01 12:30.132 – 01:12:30.222] Yeah.

72:05

[01 12:30.222 – 01:12:30.552] You know?

72:06

[01 12:30.552 – 01:12:40.972] So I, I think the Grapevine, little libraries, dentist office, CPC work, like, I think there's a lot of potential for the Grapevine that's being underutilized for committees

72:16

[01 12:40.972 – 01:12:42.792] and, and public information work.

72:18

[01 12:42.792 – 01:12:48.692] And again, there's, there's a lot of use for it that we could be doing with it.

72:25

[01 12:48.692 – 01:12:57.132] And regardless, it should be supported because as a, we, especially those of us who love AA history, we know how vital it'll be for the future.

72:34

[01 12:57.132 – 01:12:58.962] 'Cause- Th- ...

72:35

[01 12:58.962 – 01:13:05.532] we can look at it from the, and how much we need it for what we're doing in terms of, of research into the past.

72:44

[01 13:05.532 – 01:13:06.572] Mm-hmm.

72:45

[01 13:06.572 – 01:13:06.912] So.

72:46

[01 13:06.912 – 01:13:07.392] Thank you.

72:47

[01 13:07.392 – 01:13:16.112] Just to add, not in corrections, but in, uh, locally here, there's a VA hospital that we take a meeting into.

72:54

[01 13:16.112 – 01:13:25.112] And the AA in the military, uh, book, the, the compilation of, of military stories is, uh, really well-received.

73:01

[01 13:25.112 – 01:13:27.992] It's sort of like a plain language, like they really like that.

73:05

[01 13:27.992 – 01:13:34.632] But there's a lot of resistance locally to like, "No, we raised that money for big books.

73:12

[01 13:34.632 – 01:13:35.952] We're given big books.

73:13

[01 13:35.952 – 01:13:44.252] You can't have any." So the Grapevine has some great contemporary tools that, um, y- you might wanna take a look at that in your local.

73:23

[01 13:44.252 – 01:13:54.291] I just feel like this, like searching for niche, like the, the women in AA or the One Big Tent, it speaks to, to, to specific

73:32

[01 13:54.292 – 01:13:59.552] alcoholics in a, in a beautiful way in its personal stories that they relate to, so.

73:38

[01 13:59.552 – 01:14:03.792] Thank you.

73:39

[01 14:03.792 – 01:14:05.052] And next is O.

73:40

[01 14:05.052 – 01:14:06.972] Or zero.

73:42

[01 14:06.972 – 01:14:08.612] No, it's O.

73:43

[01 14:08.612 – 01:14:12.492] Uh, it's Octavio, but everyone calls me O.

73:46

[01 14:12.492 – 01:14:14.692] Uh, Octavio, alcoholic.

73:47

[01 14:14.692 – 01:14:18.762] And I am just, uh, grateful for everyone, um, and your presentation.

73:52

[01 14:18.762 – 01:14:24.102] Not to be controversial, I'm a retread and, uh, I've come back after 13 years.

73:57

[01 14:24.102 – 01:14:30.372] And during that period, this little, uh, pool has grown into this beast which is called the internet.

74:03

[01 14:30.372 – 01:14:31.942] And how- Mm-hmm ...

74:05

[01 14:31.942 – 01:14:36.532] um, how have we found a way around, at the level of press, radio, and films to-

74:11

[01 14:36.741 – 01:14:43.381] Have, um, podcasts and YouTube channels and Instagrams without going against the traditions.

74:16

[01 14:43.381 – 01:14:45.541] Again, not to be controver- virtual.

74:18

[01 14:45.541 – 01:14:51.200] I'm just fascinated, and since you guys are the sources, I'd rather talk to you than opinion through a meeting.

74:25

[01 14:51.200 – 01:14:54.261] Um, if you could just enlighten me on that.

74:29

[01 14:54.261 – 01:14:55.101] Roger?

74:30

[01 14:55.101 – 01:14:57.661] I would say, uh, please check out...

74:32

[01 15:02.101 – 01:15:06.361] Um, it's audio only, and it's first name, last initial.

74:36

[01 15:06.361 – 01:15:08.381] Uh, same with the YouTube channel.

74:38

[01 15:08.381 – 01:15:09.621] Check out the content.

74:40

[01 15:09.621 – 01:15:17.681] It's, uh, there aren't any full face, uh, members, uh, in, in that content.

74:45

[01 15:17.681 – 01:15:20.381] That content includes public service announcements.

74:48

[01 15:20.381 – 01:15:30.461] Uh, Grapevine, without the conference w- w- was able to, in the pandemic, for example, the Zoom bombers,

74:54

[01 15:30.461 – 01:15:32.681] we experienced one of those the other day.

74:57

[01 15:32.681 – 01:15:35.241] I thought they were all gone, moved on.

75:00

[01 15:35.241 – 01:15:45.401] But, um, they were able to, uh, react to, um, and put out a tutorial how to, uh, protect your group,

75:08

[01 15:45.401 – 01:15:55.401] protect your online meeting from Zoom bombers, and they got that out on the YouTube channel rather quickly without a lot of committee work and us having a bunch

75:18

[01 15:55.401 – 01:15:58.861] of loving debate for months and months until it wasn't an issue.

75:23

[01 15:58.861 – 01:16:00.621] So those kinds of things.

75:25

[01 16:00.621 – 01:16:03.921] So I would check out the content yourself, which you can do for free.

75:30

[01 16:03.921 – 01:16:04.261] Perhaps.

75:31

[01 16:04.261 – 01:16:04.901] And- Thank you ...

75:32

[01 16:04.901 – 01:16:05.581] see what you think.

75:34

[01 16:05.581 – 01:16:06.221] Yeah.

75:34

[01 16:06.221 – 01:16:07.361] No, I, I, uh, great.

75:37

[01 16:07.361 – 01:16:11.271] I just, uh, I was curious as to how, how that debate, uh- Sure ...

75:42

[01 16:11.271 – 01:16:12.001] during that time.

75:43

[01 16:12.001 – 01:16:12.131] Yeah.

75:44

[01 16:12.131 – 01:16:12.801] I appreciate you.

75:45

[01 16:12.801 – 01:16:13.481] Thank you.

75:46

[01 16:13.481 – 01:16:13.981] Yeah.

75:47

[01 16:13.981 – 01:16:14.261] You bet.

75:48

[01 16:14.261 – 01:16:24.661] Um, and so yeah, and Roger put, um, that article con- uh, so Bill has a lot of really great stuff in this one book called Our Great Responsibility, um,

75:58

[01 16:24.661 – 01:16:33.631] which is actually his talks in, from the general service conference, and he has a couple of really great ones about communication, and he t- actually, it's fascinating.

76:08

[01 16:33.631 – 01:16:35.021] He wrote an, um, a...

76:10

[01 16:35.021 – 01:16:35.821] Oh, God.

76:12

[01 16:35.821 – 01:16:36.481] What is it called?

76:13

[01 16:36.481 – 01:16:46.801] He, at one point, I think it was in 1960, he gave a talk, and he talks about this vast communication network covers the Earth, and he wasn't, and he, it was almost like,

76:25

[01 16:46.801 – 01:16:50.591] 'cause back then he was talking about brad- broadcast was suddenly becoming global.

76:30

[01 16:50.591 – 01:16:59.281] And he says, "Nothing matters more to the future of AA in the way in which we use this network of communication to carry the message.

76:39

[01 16:59.281 – 01:17:09.351] Will we use it wisely, or will we allow it to be used for, like, ego methods?" And so I think the examples of the way that

76:49

[01 17:09.351 – 01:17:19.421] the Grapevine uses, uh, these, the not only the methods of broadcast media, like to reach what we call one-to-one, but

76:56

[01 17:19.421 – 01:17:26.981] now s- social media, which is a form of, I just did a thing about this, but communication that is inter many to many.

77:05

[01 17:26.981 – 01:17:30.761] Like, you can't comment on the social media of the Grapevine.

77:09

[01 17:30.761 – 01:17:32.441] You can't comment on the YouTube.

77:11

[01 17:32.441 – 01:17:38.341] You can't comment on the, um, on the Instagrams of the, of the Grapevine.

77:16

[01 17:38.341 – 01:17:44.541] You know, you can follow it, but you don't necessarily identify as an AA member 'cause you can't write on it.

77:24

[01 17:44.541 – 01:17:51.821] You know, people aren't getting into little arguments on it, um, the way they are in Facebook groups with each o- each other.

77:32

[01 17:51.821 – 01:18:01.871] And so those are closed, but so I would you know, almost argue, like, there are plenty of, you know, closed, you know, uh, Facebook groups where people might not be practicing

77:44

[01 18:01.871 – 01:18:08.661] the principles as much as, uh, the, th- th- those, you know, public, uh, things.

77:49

[01 18:08.661 – 01:18:18.721] So again, it's, uh, we're not a secret society, and, uh, and actually we, uh, people talk about this all the time with the forms of public information, is we,

78:00

[01 18:18.721 – 01:18:24.281] we need to be using, uh, these, um, methods of media and broadcast media.

78:05

[01 18:24.281 – 01:18:32.321] Um, it's just the way in which we use them and, and our, our, the spirit of, um, humility in which we talk about AA.

78:14

[01 18:32.321 – 01:18:35.781] It's great.

78:15

[01 18:35.781 – 01:18:36.701] It's a great question.

78:16

[01 18:36.701 – 01:18:40.440] Thank you, and next is Penny.

78:19

[01 18:40.440 – 01:18:41.821] You can unmute.

78:20

[01 18:41.821 – 01:18:42.541] Yeah.

78:21

[01 18:42.541 – 01:18:43.221] Thanks, Jim.

78:22

[01 18:43.221 – 01:18:43.561] Hi.

78:23

[01 18:43.561 – 01:18:45.261] Penny Pennington, alcoholic.

78:24

[01 18:45.261 – 01:18:55.261] Um, the, um, the th- the letter that B- that Jackie just referred to, Bill actually has an excerpt from that

78:32

[01 18:55.261 – 01:19:04.901] on page 255 in As Bill Sees It, and you can read, um, part of what Bill said about the colossus of modern communication.

78:40

[01 19:04.901 – 01:19:06.361] Yes, the colossus.

78:41

[01 19:06.361 – 01:19:16.781] And I will remind you that, um, online AA has been around for a lot longer than March of 2020.

78:48

[01 19:16.781 – 01:19:27.421] Um, the online community, and we have several people, um, online today that were part of the online community when it first started in the 1980s, the late 1980s.

78:58

[01 19:27.421 – 01:19:34.181] Um, there is a history of online AA at recoveryspeakers.com, and it's worth checking out.

79:04

[01 19:34.181 – 01:19:44.231] Um, to Jackie's comment about, um, the, the ch- the disc- active discussions on some social media.

79:10

[01 19:44.231 – 01:19:52.251] If you're a Reddit user, that's a whole new community of discussions about, uh, in the AA community.

79:17

[01 19:52.251 – 01:20:02.521] But one of the things I wanted to point out, and, and I did put a note in the chat, is that the Carry The Message project for the AA Grapevine,

79:28

[01 20:02.521 – 01:20:06.541] uh, your group, your group can support a subscription.

79:31

[01 20:06.541 – 01:20:11.481] And, um, my home group is actually an online meeting.

79:35

[01 20:11.481 – 01:20:11.911] Yes.

79:36

[01 20:11.911 – 01:20:22.081] It's an international English-speaking meeting out of China, and we took a group conscience to purchase two subscriptions each quarter,

79:43

[01 20:22.081 – 01:20:25.741] because that's how we, uh, distribute our funds is quarterly.

79:47

[01 20:25.741 – 01:20:35.851] And we purchase two subscriptions each quarter, one that goes domestically within the US, but because we are an international

79:54

[01 20:35.851 – 01:20:45.981] group, and we are based out of China, we also subscri- um, donate one s- international

80:00

[01 20:45.981 – 01:20:46.741] subscription.

80:00

[01 20:46.741 – 01:20:50.681] And you have that option when you go into the Carry The Message project.

80:06

[01 20:50.681 – 01:20:57.141] Do you wanna do US, Canada, or do you wanna do an international, uh, subscription to carry the message?

80:12

[01 20:57.141 – 01:21:04.181] So if your group is not already supporting the Carry The Message project, cons- look into it.

80:19

[01 21:04.181 – 01:21:12.541] Get the information from the AA Grapevine webpage, and consider taking it back to the next business meeting at your group.

80:26

[01 21:12.541 – 01:21:14.721] Yeah.

80:27

[01 21:14.721 – 01:21:16.721] Off, off my soapbox now.

80:29

[01 21:16.721 – 01:21:23.571] Uh, another thing about what Penny said about online, you know who was writing about online-

80:35

[01 21:23.697 – 01:21:26.917] In AA before the 2020s.

80:37

[01 21:26.917 – 01:21:28.397] Guess who, Penny?

80:38

[01 21:28.397 – 01:21:30.657] The Grapevine.

80:39

[01 21:30.657 – 01:21:34.507] So I did a whole thing on, on this, and I found...

80:44

[01 21:34.507 – 01:21:36.957] And Gr- and Penny did a pres- and she quoted the Grapevine.

80:48

[01 21:36.957 – 01:21:46.577] And literally, the Grapevine had, like, a 24-page special edition not once, like twice, like, in, like, the '90s on online AA.

80:56

[01 21:46.577 – 01:21:50.097] They act- And then back then they used to publish, like, the angry letters.

81:02

[01 21:50.097 – 01:21:58.097] So, uh, Roger, I do believe there were probably angry letters written about that article, and I believe that the Grapevine probably even published them.

81:11

[01 21:58.097 – 01:22:00.527] So you just have to look at the next couple of months- Yeah, I looked ...

81:16

[01 22:00.527 – 01:22:02.027] afterwards to find them.

81:18

[01 22:02.027 – 01:22:07.077] And some of my favorite things are when you find angry letters written to the Grapevine that they published.

81:25

[01 22:07.077 – 01:22:16.367] And so they p- the Grapevine literally published a whole section of letters in response to the online AA, uh, f- th- feature.

81:33

[01 22:16.367 – 01:22:26.677] And my f- and most, and a couple of them were like, "But did you really have to spend, you know, 24 pages on this?" I want to read those- That's so funny

81:44

[01 22:26.677 – 01:22:26.777] ...

81:44

[01 22:26.777 – 01:22:27.257] and publish.

81:46

[01 22:27.257 – 01:22:30.156] But, you know, that's like reading the comments on the Facebook.

81:50

[01 22:30.156 – 01:22:31.347] But, um- Yeah ...

81:51

[01 22:31.347 – 01:22:38.397] I just mentioned 1959, two guys in, um, in Taiwan had, uh, ham radio operators.

81:56

[01 22:38.397 – 01:22:46.137] So, you know, we've been trying to communicate and, you know, remote communities have been working hard to connect.

82:03

[01 22:46.137 – 01:22:51.937] I mean, connection's what it's all about, so- In the 1940s we had telephone meetings.

82:09

[01 22:51.937 – 01:23:02.017] The women in the Midwest started telephone meetings because they were at home during the day and did not have cars to go to meetings, and so they

82:18

[01 23:02.017 – 01:23:04.947] started telephone meetings so that they could- Very dependable ...

82:22

[01 23:04.947 – 01:23:07.737] and they started women's meetings on the telephone.

82:25

[01 23:07.737 – 01:23:09.957] And we find- Anyway, we'll figure it out.

82:28

[01 23:09.957 – 01:23:17.877] Yeah, we find- In the 1960s, the Grapevine published an article about a conference call meeting between Wyoming and California.

82:35

[01 23:17.877 – 01:23:19.017] Yeah.

82:36

[01 23:19.017 – 01:23:21.377] I read it in the Grapevine.

82:38

[01 23:21.377 – 01:23:22.637] I kn- I can keep going.

82:41

[01 23:22.637 – 01:23:24.257] Literally, it's, uh...

82:42

[01 23:24.257 – 01:23:25.637] John.

82:43

[01 23:25.637 – 01:23:27.397] Can I call on John, Tim?

82:45

[01 23:27.397 – 01:23:27.997] Yes.

82:46

[01 23:27.997 – 01:23:34.137] O- okay, there we go.

82:48

[01 23:34.137 – 01:23:37.817] Yeah, my name's John, an alcoholic, and, uh, thank you, uh, Roger.

82:52

[01 23:37.817 – 01:23:41.437] Um, and uh, Jackie, you've helped me with other stuff before.

82:57

[01 23:41.437 – 01:23:50.317] Um, so I, so I went online and I signed up for it, and, um, and I, and I did a search, and, uh, I get no response.

83:07

[01 23:50.317 – 01:23:52.337] Does it take time or, uh...

83:09

[01 23:52.337 – 01:23:56.777] It, it didn't say nothing found, it just, it just didn't go anywhere.

83:14

[01 23:56.777 – 01:23:59.537] Does it take, does it take a time for, uh...?

83:18

[01 23:59.537 – 01:24:02.497] Mm, usually n- usually...

83:19

[01 24:02.497 – 01:24:07.937] I noticed, like, uh, um, Roger, like, so what did you put in there?

83:24

[01 24:07.937 – 01:24:12.197] I was looking for a movie committee, AA movie committee.

83:28

[01 24:12.197 – 01:24:14.417] It's in, uh, the Bobbi B book.

83:31

[01 24:14.417 – 01:24:16.147] She mentions it, 1947.

83:32

[01 24:16.147 – 01:24:20.097] So you need to do is try smaller words, try movie.

83:36

[01 24:20.097 – 01:24:23.717] You might also, sometimes I find, like, um...

83:39

[01 24:23.717 – 01:24:25.937] It, it sounds weird, but, like, I...

83:42

[01 24:25.937 – 01:24:30.977] So with Roger, what I had to do was, like, I was like, "Why is Hankins not coming up?

83:49

[01 24:30.977 – 01:24:31.797] This is weird.

83:50

[01 24:31.797 – 01:24:40.917] It comes up for me before." So I had to, like, cle- uh, not clear the cache, but, like, um, like, uh, press, um...

83:59

[01 24:40.917 – 01:24:46.077] I had to, like, press the archive button a couple times, which has never happened before.

84:05

[01 24:46.077 – 01:24:56.037] So I think a part of it is because, like, the gremlins that live in the internet knew that Roger and I were doing this, and we had a feeling that they would act up and make it difficult.

84:19

[01 24:56.037 – 01:25:00.937] So I would do is, um, look at the dates also.

84:23

[01 25:00.937 – 01:25:05.657] So, uh, like, again, like, you can also on the side choose, like, um...

84:28

[01 25:05.657 – 01:25:14.737] So what I would do is actually maybe write movie and then s- you know, choose the year and start looking that way, right?

84:36

[01 25:14.737 – 01:25:17.957] A- and those are ways to start doing things like that.

84:41

[01 25:17.957 – 01:25:19.377] So I did something similar.

84:43

[01 25:19.377 – 01:25:20.717] I was looking at, um...

84:45

[01 25:20.717 – 01:25:26.437] I did something similar with movie, actually, and television and, and things like that, and it, it takes time.

84:52

[01 25:26.437 – 01:25:28.696] Um, you can't get too specific.

84:54

[01 25:28.696 – 01:25:34.357] You can also try sometimes putting commas around th- um, not commas.

84:58

[01 25:34.357 – 01:25:35.137] What are those?

85:00

[01 25:35.137 – 01:25:36.407] More quotation marks.

85:01

[01 25:36.407 – 01:25:37.157] I need words.

85:03

[01 25:37.157 – 01:25:38.017] Yeah.

85:03

[01 25:38.017 – 01:25:39.477] And that can help.

85:05

[01 25:39.477 – 01:25:40.937] But it was, it was...

85:07

[01 25:40.937 – 01:25:51.177] Today was a little weirder than it's ever been for me before, and, um, but I think that's just, again, like, it's having performance anxiety 'cause it knows we're talking

85:18

[01 25:51.177 – 01:25:51.677] about it.

85:19

[01 25:51.677 – 01:25:54.117] Right.

85:19

[01 25:54.117 – 01:25:56.437] So, uh, so- So you just have to play with it, you know?

85:24

[01 25:56.437 – 01:26:04.907] You just gotta play around with it a little bit and get, get- The word movie alone r- I got 71 results total, like, without touching the other words.

85:34

[01 26:04.907 – 01:26:04.927] Yeah.

85:35

[01 26:04.927 – 01:26:05.957] But, oh, here's the other thing.

85:37

[01 26:05.957 – 01:26:07.737] You have to try different words.

85:40

[01 26:07.737 – 01:26:08.717] You have to try film.

85:42

[01 26:08.717 – 01:26:11.216] You have to try cinema, right?

85:44

[01 26:11.216 – 01:26:13.977] You have to, you have to really try different words.

85:48

[01 26:13.977 – 01:26:24.157] And so, like, also, like, so I know what you're talking about with the Bob- with Bobbi's, when she consulted on, on, on, um, on the, uh, uh, Bo-

85:58

[01 26:24.157 – 01:26:24.997] Gary.

85:59

[01 26:24.997 – 01:26:26.077] Lillian Roth.

86:00

[01 26:26.077 – 01:26:27.077] Yeah.

86:01

[01 26:27.077 – 01:26:28.047] Oh, and then the Lillian.

86:03

[01 26:28.047 – 01:26:28.937] Yeah, and that's the thing.

86:05

[01 26:28.937 – 01:26:32.797] Like, also, like, they're not gonna use the exact, you know, the...

86:09

[01 26:32.797 – 01:26:38.577] Like you said, they're not gonna use certain names or they're gonna be a little bit more, um, circumspent about certain things.

86:17

[01 26:38.577 – 01:26:42.837] So, um, y- it is, like, a lot of times it's rabbit holes.

86:22

[01 26:42.837 – 01:26:49.677] Also, like, I often find things when I'm s- researching one thing that's related to something else, you know?

86:29

[01 26:49.677 – 01:26:52.177] So it's, it's...

86:30

[01 26:52.177 – 01:27:00.697] Y- you know, sometimes it's easier to find something you're not looking for than to find some things too specific that you are looking for.

86:39

[01 27:00.697 – 01:27:01.777] Does that make sense?

86:41

[01 27:01.777 – 01:27:03.217] Yeah.

86:41

[01 27:03.217 – 01:27:05.117] Yeah, well, yeah.

86:43

[01 27:05.117 – 01:27:07.017] It's, it's, like, actually easier if you're not...

86:46

[01 27:07.017 – 01:27:08.357] Yeah, so it's, yeah.

86:48

[01 27:08.357 – 01:27:10.137] That's, that's the funny thing.

86:50

[01 27:10.137 – 01:27:14.377] Um, so for me it works well, 'cause I'm just interested in young people.

86:55

[01 27:14.377 – 01:27:15.216] You know, I'm interest...

86:57

[01 27:15.216 – 01:27:23.977] He was interested in an ent- a city, and then you start identifying little names and things like that and, and, and, um, and, a- and stuff like that.

87:07

[01 27:23.977 – 01:27:26.017] But you'll get the hang of it.

87:10

[01 27:26.017 – 01:27:27.216] It's very, it's definitely fun.

87:12

[01 27:27.216 – 01:27:28.657] It's a labor of love, for sure.

87:14

[01 27:28.657 – 01:27:29.397] Yeah.

87:15

[01 27:29.397 – 01:27:31.357] It And that's how history is.

87:17

[01 27:31.357 – 01:27:33.147] It really sometimes- You're a little bit of a detective, right?

87:22

[01 27:33.147 – 01:27:39.837] I mean, that, so you can, you really enjoy that or you can, but your head it can drive you crazy, but yeah.

87:30

[01 27:39.837 – 01:27:43.097] All right, let's do one more question.

87:33

[01 27:43.097 – 01:27:44.776] Chris, you can unmute.

87:34

[01 27:44.776 – 01:27:51.577] Hi, I'm Chris, alcoholic, and this is a question for either one of you.

87:39

[01 27:51.577 – 01:27:57.817] Uh, and excuse me if you may have covered this during your presentation, but most, this has to do more with the economics of the Grapevine.

87:49

[01 27:57.817 – 01:28:07.937] Uh, several years back I heard in different meetings there was a, an, a call for support for the Grapevine because it was supposedly, uh, the primary

87:58

[01 28:07.937 – 01:28:10.337] or one of the primary sources of revenue for AA.

88:02

[01 28:10.933 – 01:28:12.773] And I wondered if you could comment on that.

88:06

[01 28:12.773 – 01:28:15.033] Can you repeat the question?

88:08

[01 28:15.033 – 01:28:16.493] When is, what are we commenting on?

88:10

[01 28:16.493 – 01:28:22.393] The economics of the Grapevine, the role that it plays, uh, as a source of revenue for AA.

88:17

[01 28:22.393 – 01:28:24.553] Oh, definitely not.

88:18

[01 28:24.553 – 01:28:26.812] It's not a source of revenue for AA.

88:21

[01 28:26.812 – 01:28:35.853] Literature sales are a source of, um, uh, are a supplement to, um, uh, to the group contributions.

88:28

[01 28:35.853 – 01:28:37.512] They always historically have.

88:30

[01 28:37.512 – 01:28:40.093] The Grapevine, um, is...

88:31

[01 28:40.093 – 01:28:44.573] Uh, I mean, Roger probably could speak more to that as a past delegate.

88:36

[01 28:44.573 – 01:28:49.293] Um, but the Grapevine has always, like, aimed to try and be bla- in the black.

88:42

[01 28:49.293 – 01:28:51.733] It has not always been successful at that.

88:45

[01 28:51.733 – 01:29:01.913] The Grape- La Viña, the Spanish-speaking bimonthly, has historically not, um, been in the black, but it's also always kind of been seen as a service rather than

88:56

[01 29:01.913 – 01:29:08.233] an attempt to be a s- a, a self, um, supporting publication the way that the Grapevine is.

89:02

[01 29:08.233 – 01:29:18.693] Um, the good news is at the Southwestern Forum, the, uh, the news came out that the app has paid for itself in subscriptions, so anyone who

89:12

[01 29:18.693 – 01:29:29.193] was all concerned about that can rest assured that the app has paid for itself and ha- is now, you know, being a, a nice

89:21

[01 29:29.193 – 01:29:33.403] addition to the, the, the, to the, the Grapevine's thing.

89:24

[01 29:33.403 – 01:29:36.173] But the Grapevine is not, um, one of the...

89:28

[01 29:36.173 – 01:29:45.133] I mean, the thing you have to keep in mind is that when we talk about that, we're talking about the General Service Board, which holds the monies, and, and the Grapevine is not really what we consider a revenue for...

89:42

[01 29:45.133 – 01:29:52.393] It, it, it only collects money for itself, and it's really the aim is to, you know, stay solvent.

89:49

[01 29:52.393 – 01:29:59.053] Um, and then in terms of General Service Board, correct me, Roger, you're talking about the two main sources.

89:56

[01 29:59.053 – 01:30:05.513] It, the, the main sources are group contributions, individual contributions, and literature sales.

90:01

[01 30:05.513 – 01:30:15.513] So the literature sales are from AA World Services Incorporated, which is separate from Grapevine, so Grapevine Incorporated, which publishes the Grapevine and books

90:09

[01 30:15.513 – 01:30:19.493] by the Grapevine, and the books from the Grapevine are collections of stories from the Grapevine.

90:15

[01 30:19.493 – 01:30:20.153] I see.

90:16

[01 30:20.153 – 01:30:20.632] So.

90:17

[01 30:20.632 – 01:30:21.053] Thank you.

90:18

[01 30:21.053 – 01:30:21.933] That clears it up.

90:20

[01 30:21.933 – 01:30:22.753] Thanks very much.

90:21

[01 30:22.753 – 01:30:25.193] Is that, Roger, did I get it?

90:24

[01 30:25.193 – 01:30:26.223] You did.

90:25

[01 30:26.223 – 01:30:26.993] Yeah, you did.

90:26

[01 30:26.993 – 01:30:37.003] So yeah, it, we always talk about money around the Grapevine and around AA, and it gets, it gets cloudy because there's this umbrella corporation, the General Service

90:36

[01 30:37.003 – 01:30:39.293] Board, where our contributions go in.

90:39

[01 30:39.293 – 01:30:49.663] A, Grapevine is designed to, uh, be self-supporting through subscriptions and, uh, greeting cards now and, and

90:45

[01 30:49.663 – 01:30:51.973] the things that it sells, the books and so forth.

90:49

[01 30:51.973 – 01:30:57.873] And so they create a budget, and with an attempt to, uh- We use greeting cards?

90:54

[01 30:57.873 – 01:30:59.633] ...

90:55

[01 30:59.633 – 01:31:07.673] cost the production of, of Grapevine, uh, to get the money back through subscriptions and through sales.

91:01

[01 31:07.673 – 01:31:18.033] So if they fail to, uh, to, to achieve that, then the General Service Board, the, the umbrella, uh, which is our group contributions,

91:10

[01 31:18.033 – 01:31:20.533] the big bucket, would have to pay the bills.

91:13

[01 31:20.533 – 01:31:22.013] So it's never been...

91:15

[01 31:22.013 – 01:31:32.033] It's, it's, it's operated in the black and in the red, but it's never been a s- a, a source of revenue or, um, something that we expected to be a source of

91:26

[01 31:32.033 – 01:31:32.433] revenue.

91:27

[01 31:32.433 – 01:31:41.213] And La Viña, out the gate we had hoped it would achieve self-support someday, and, um, that became, uh, glaringly obvious.

91:35

[01 31:41.213 – 01:31:51.653] Uh, the, the, the fellowship said, "We, we still wanna make it as a service." And, and the, the shortfall is always, uh, supported

91:43

[01 31:51.653 – 01:31:55.373] by the fellowship through the General Service Board through our contributions.

91:48

[01 31:55.373 – 01:32:05.453] Um, but when we talk about money and all those pots of money and all the how things work, um, it gets complicated and then lost in translation sometimes.

91:58

[01 32:05.453 – 01:32:15.493] And, and sometimes somebody gives an accurate report, and it's as we play telephone, sometimes we,

92:04

[01 32:15.493 – 01:32:17.333] we just misunderstand things.

92:05

[01 32:17.333 – 01:32:18.433] Yeah.

92:06

[01 32:18.433 – 01:32:22.973] If anything sounds too alarmist, y- you know, email your delegate.

92:10

[01 32:22.973 – 01:32:32.533] A, yeah, and if they sound a little too alarmist, you know, email the ge- I don't know, your trustee.

92:17

[01 32:32.533 – 01:32:33.633] I don't know.

92:19

[01 32:33.633 – 01:32:34.583] Sorry.

92:20

[01 32:34.583 – 01:32:37.153] Some of y'all have some kooky delegates out there.

92:23

[01 32:37.153 – 01:32:38.473] I mean, look at Roger.

92:25

[01 32:38.473 – 01:32:40.043] No, I'm joking.

92:26

[01 32:40.043 – 01:32:44.673] You guys elect some, some strange ones in some of your places.

92:31

[01 32:44.673 – 01:32:45.293] No, I'm joking.

92:32

[01 32:45.293 – 01:32:46.313] Right.

92:33

[01 32:46.313 – 01:32:47.933] Rotation.

92:34

[01 32:47.933 – 01:32:49.973] California, I mean, we're...

92:35

[01 32:49.973 – 01:32:50.763] No, I'm joking.

92:37

[01 32:50.763 – 01:32:52.573] I mean, rotation will solve anything.

92:39

[01 32:52.573 – 01:32:53.473] They got rid of me.

92:41

[01 32:53.473 – 01:32:54.713] Yeah.

92:42

[01 32:54.713 – 01:32:56.173] No, they did a good job with you.

92:45

[01 32:56.173 – 01:33:06.193] So I think that's it for questions, and I just wanted to leave, uh, a minute here for Jackie and Roger, if there's anything you want

92:54

[01 33:06.193 – 01:33:14.593] to tease for next week or give any assignments for anyone to come back prepared with a topic or anything for next week.

93:02

[01 33:14.593 – 01:33:18.043] Um, and we can close it out after that.

93:06

[01 33:18.043 – 01:33:18.113] That's good.

93:07

[01 33:18.113 – 01:33:21.473] Come back with, uh, f- just come, just come back.

93:11

[01 33:21.473 – 01:33:23.093] Yeah, come back.

93:12

[01 33:23.093 – 01:33:23.483] A few words of wisdom.

93:14

[01 33:23.483 – 01:33:29.533] And, um, yes, I mean, I definitely will look forward to hearing some...

93:19

[01 33:29.533 – 01:33:33.413] I mean, you definitely, you know, try, work on it.

93:23

[01 33:33.413 – 01:33:43.413] And this is the funny thing when Roger and I do this, we're like, "Oh my God, are we gonna become, like, customer support for the digital archives?" But,

93:33

[01 33:43.413 – 01:33:51.273] um, you know, let's hope for the best and, like, I know now I feel nervous, but, like, how many people here have used the digital archives?

93:43

[01 33:51.273 – 01:33:52.373] Can you raise your hand?

93:45

[01 33:52.373 – 01:33:55.033] Okay, so these are all people who you can talk to.

93:49

[01 33:55.033 – 01:33:59.273] How many of us who have used the digital archives have found amazing things on them?

93:55

[01 33:59.273 – 01:34:03.773] Okay, so y- you can do it.

93:57

[01 34:03.773 – 01:34:11.773] We all have done it, and I don't think they changed it overnight while we weren't looking, so, so I think it'll be great.

94:06

[01 34:11.773 – 01:34:15.973] This is why Chris and John should not let us do these again.

94:11

[01 34:15.973 – 01:34:16.693] No, I'm gonna...

94:12

[01 34:16.693 – 01:34:18.143] We're gonna do this next week.

94:15

[01 34:18.143 – 01:34:19.093] It's gonna be awesome.

94:16

[01 34:19.093 – 01:34:20.293] I'm late at night.

94:18

[01 34:20.293 – 01:34:22.073] It's, I get a little unhinged.

94:20

[01 34:22.073 – 01:34:26.033] It's a little one, two, many hits in the head with the snake, as they say.

94:26

[01 34:26.033 – 01:34:31.153] So, um, I'll see you guys next week, and I will have lots of fun stuff.

94:32

[01 34:31.153 – 01:34:35.313] So not Rog- I mean, yeah, you get to hear me go down rabbit holes.

94:38

[01 34:35.313 – 01:34:39.213] This is really to be the topic, not, not accessing the A story.

94:42

[01 34:39.213 – 01:34:41.483] Going down the ra- I think that's accurate ...

94:45

[01 34:41.483 – 01:34:42.173] rabbit hole.

94:46

[01 34:42.173 – 01:34:45.093] Which is very accurate.

94:48

[01 34:45.093 – 01:34:49.473] All right, thank you so much, Jackie and Roger.

94:52

[01 34:49.473 – 01:34:54.113] And now I will allow everyone that's still on to unmute and thank them.

94:57

[01 34:54.113 – 01:34:56.312] And, uh, please come back next week.

The following is an AI-generated transcript. Minor errors may occur. The audio is the authoritative source.

Grapevine archives – Jackie B presented by Roger W – 2025-01-06

Grapevine archives – Jackie B presented by Roger W – 2025-01-06

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