[00:09.8 – 00:12.7] And we, we spent quite a while- … [00:12.7 – 00:16.5] carefully trying to remove that duct tape from those pieces. [00:16.5 – 00:20.8] So tapes, unless you’re gonna repair things, is a no-no. [00:20.8 – 00:24.5] Yeah. [00:24.5 – 00:26.6] In my hand is a totally destroyed book. [00:26.6 – 00:28.2] I’m working on it right now. [00:28.2 – 00:30.0] It’s so totally destroyed. [00:30.0 – 00:31.2] How many have been in the military? [00:31.2 – 00:32.8] Just curious. [00:32.8 – 00:34.8] How many have been around the military? [00:34.8 – 00:40.6] Have you seen those little metal cans of glue, where you unscrew the cap, and it’s got that little cap? [00:40.6 – 00:43.5] That’s what that is. [00:43.5 – 00:44.2] Oh. [00:44.2 – 00:46.4] This is a first and eighth. [00:46.4 – 00:51.3] This had this d- d- and, and it had some good written information in it. [00:51.3 – 00:53.1] That’s what it’ll, will do to paper. [00:53.1 – 00:57.1] Oh, I had to totally… [00:57.1 – 01:00.8] In fact, I’m gonna pass this around. [01:00.8 – 01:02.6] Try to keep it together. [01:02.6 – 01:04.6] Books are put together… [01:04.6 – 01:06.7] I’m not even gonna touch that with the glue. [01:06.7 – 01:12.0] Books are p- toge- put together with what they call airplane cloth or mull. [01:12.0 – 01:14.4] This is what holds the text to the spine. [01:14.4 – 01:16.5] This isn’t even airplane cloth. [01:16.5 – 01:18.2] It’s got that same glue on it. [01:18.2 – 01:24.2] I would also let you look at what they did to beef up the spine. [01:24.2 – 01:27.1] That’s glued over everything, the same glue. [01:27.1 – 01:30.4] And I’m going to pass this napkin with it. [01:30.4 – 01:35.0] Please feel the glue that they used to put this book together. [01:35.0 – 01:37.4] I had to break it down with toluene and more. [01:37.4 – 01:47.4] So I’m gonna start it right here, kind of be fairly quick, and let’s let this pass around and w- and by the way, that’s the stamping of au- this is way [01:47.4 – 01:47.7] off. [01:47.7 – 01:49.4] That’s way, way, way… [01:49.4 – 01:50.8] I’ll, I’ll pick it up. [01:50.8 – 01:55.7] And that’s improper size, and the ink and the, uh, gold covering has run like crazy. [01:55.7 – 01:59.8] So I’m gonna go ahead and just lay it in the middle, and y’all are welcome to look at that. [01:59.8 – 02:01.0] Keep it together, please. [02:01.0 – 02:02.1] I’d like that back. [02:02.1 – 02:06.5] Uh, we do things out of ignorance. [02:06.5 – 02:08.0] Ignorance is not a bad word. [02:08.0 – 02:10.8] It just means that we are not aware of what we’re doing. [02:10.8 – 02:12.8] I would be cautious of that. [02:12.8 – 02:14.6] I would really be cautious. [02:14.6 – 02:19.9] And my suggestion is, is if you don’t know what you’re doing, just don’t until you can get in touch. [02:19.9 – 02:21.1] It’s that simple. [02:21.1 – 02:22.3] Here, here, here. [02:22.3 – 02:32.2] No moisture yet, but I’m sure those two documents are kind of, uh, relaxing pretty good. [02:32.2 – 02:32.4] Oh, yeah. [02:32.4 – 02:42.5] Why don’t you go ahead and, uh, here’s a good area, and there is some [02:42.5 – 02:43.5] tissue repair. [02:43.5 – 02:45.5] Why don’t we do dry clean? [02:45.5 – 02:45.8] Okay. [02:45.8 – 02:46.3] Here we go. [02:46.3 – 02:47.5] Here we go. [02:47.5 – 02:49.0] Here’s some stuff right here- All right … [02:49.0 – 02:51.7] that we can dry clean, and there’s a couple of pads right there. [02:51.7 – 02:52.2] I’ve got some pads. [02:52.2 – 02:52.5] I got some pads over here. [02:52.5 – 02:54.7] Okay. [02:54.7 – 02:55.5] Okay. [02:55.5 – 02:56.8] All right, dry cleaning. [02:56.8 – 03:02.7] Basically, what that is, is we’re using a, a type of pad. [03:02.7 – 03:05.6] This one’s called Opaline. [03:05.6 – 03:07.9] This one’s from Archival Quality. [03:07.9 – 03:10.0] They’re just brand, brand name manufacturer. [03:10.0 – 03:16.5] I don’t know whether you can see this or not, but there’s little tiny flakes of this stuff. [03:16.5 – 03:17.9] It’s rubber that comes out. [03:17.9 – 03:22.4] That’s what we use. [03:22.4 – 03:28.1] It’s, it’s like an eraser, ground-up eraser, but it’s a higher quality- Non-abrasive … [03:28.1 – 03:29.2] non-abrasive material. [03:29.2 – 03:34.8] But what we’re gonna do- Sorry, what’s that called? [03:34.8 – 03:36.6] Well, it’s called a dry cleaning pad. [03:36.6 – 03:38.2] Documents cleaning pad. [03:38.2 – 03:38.2] Okay. [03:38.2 – 03:39.1] Document cleaning pad. [03:39.1 – 03:44.8] You can, you can buy the same material that’s inside this pad- That’s what he’s talking about … [03:44.8 – 03:53.8] in tall cardboard jars, and it’s a little, little larger qua- quantity, a little larger in, in diameter material. [03:53.8 – 03:55.2] Does the same thing. [03:55.2 – 03:56.8] Wow. [03:56.8 – 03:57.6] It’s a, uh… [03:57.6 – 04:02.0] You can find them in, in your products under, under, uh, document cleaning, okay? [04:02.0 – 04:12.2] What you wanna do is I, what I do is I just basically just go like so, and it, it takes out a little pile of this stuff, [04:12.2 – 04:12.4] okay? [04:12.4 – 04:14.0] You can’t really see it. [04:14.0 – 04:15.7] Now, I use my finger. [04:15.7 – 04:17.3] I try not to use it with a glove. [04:17.3 – 04:18.6] My fingers are clean. [04:18.6 – 04:20.6] I’ve washed my fingers. [04:20.6 – 04:23.3] Always wash your hands before you touch any documents. [04:23.3 – 04:31.2] And what you do is you take, with this little pile of material, and you simply, carefully- Be gentle … [04:31.2 – 04:31.5] rub it. [04:31.5 – 04:31.9] Be gentle. [04:31.9 – 04:33.7] In a little circular motion. [04:33.7 – 04:44.0] But what that will do is that will take the dirt and dust off, and sometimes, I’m gonna even, even do [04:44.0 – 04:46.7] a little bit of this, it’ll take off pencil marks. [04:46.7 – 04:55.5] Ex- exte- you know, anything that’s not, that’s an ex- accidental mark or a, a, a rub from something. [04:55.5 – 04:59.3] And you just wanna go over your entire piece with that. [04:59.3 – 05:00.7] Thank you. [05:00.7 – 05:00.7] The light touch. [05:00.7 – 05:02.2] Very light, very light touch, yes. [05:02.2 – 05:03.0] Light touch. [05:03.0 – 05:05.2] Now, obviously, this is a mimeographed piece. [05:05.2 – 05:06.8] I’m not going very hard at all. [05:06.8 – 05:12.6] Um, if you had a, a piece like this, it’d, it’d be easier, and you can go a little bit harder. [05:12.6 – 05:15.9] I see people taking their pad and going- [05:17.5 – 05:19.0] No, don’t do that. [05:19.0 – 05:20.2] You may want to do that. [05:20.2 – 05:22.8] All you’re doing is just- Dirtying up the pad … [05:22.8 – 05:29.4] using the bracing qualities of the cloth to scrape off whatever’s on top of your document. [05:29.4 – 05:30.8] Mm-hmm. [05:30.8 – 05:35.6] So that’s one particular way to use it, and here’s, here’s this material. [05:35.6 – 05:44.5] Now, I can say I didn’t use this one very much, but if you notice here, I took off a quarter of the pencil mark right here. [05:44.5 – 05:45.9] And it’ll take off marks. [05:45.9 – 05:47.3] It’ll take off fingerprint marks. [05:47.3 – 05:53.0] Uh, it sometimes works on coffee stains, uh, for those of us that in AA that… [05:53.0 – 05:55.7] No, we’ve never seen it, right? [05:55.7 – 05:60.0] Let’s hold up for one second, and this is important and very important. [05:60.0 – 06:05.0] Uh, Bill, Bill Dodson, Henrietta Cyberling, and Dr. [06:05.0 – 06:08.5] Suckworth all used a lot of pencil notations. [06:08.5 – 06:09.0] Yeah. [06:09.0 – 06:13.2] If you use the document’s cleaning pad, you’re gonna erase that pencil. [06:13.2 – 06:13.2] Yes. [06:13.2 – 06:19.2] So please, please, please do not use it if there’s any kind of writing, notes, dates, anything. [06:19.2 – 06:22.5] Do not use it on lead pencil, ’cause I guarantee you’ll take it off. [06:22.5 – 06:22.9] I’m sorry. [06:22.9 – 06:23.5] I just had- Sure … [06:23.5 – 06:23.8] to think about it. [06:23.8 – 06:25.3] There’s a, there’s another product, too. [06:25.3 – 06:27.3] Um, it’s called ArtSorb. [06:27.3 – 06:28.2] Large cans. [06:28.2 – 06:29.7] Large cans called ArtSorb. [06:29.7 – 06:35.6] It’s like a, a plasticine kind of clay, an eraser kind of Play-Doh kind of stuff. [06:35.6 – 06:39.1] You can use that to rub a little bit also, and that will also do the same thing. [06:39.1 – 06:41.9] Um, but whatever you do- Mm-hmm … [06:41.9 – 06:49.6] whatever product that you use, look and see if it says archival safe on it, at least, at least at the very start. [06:49.6 – 06:56.8] Something, some places say, “Oh, yes, our, our materials are archival safe.” Do some research on it if you can before you go ahead and use that product. [06:56.8 – 07:06.8] If you buy from Gaylord or Light Impressions or University Products, you can be pretty much guaranteed that, that most of the materials that they’re gonna be selling you are what they [07:06.8 – 07:07.1] say. [07:07.1 – 07:08.1] You’re not buying a pig in a poke. [07:08.1 – 07:11.5] So definitely check it out first. [07:11.5 – 07:13.1] Buy quality. [07:13.1 – 07:16.9] Don’t, don’t say, “Gee, you know, I’ve only got five bucks. [07:16.9 – 07:22.0] I’ll go down to this place here and, and buy this cheap product.” You’re gonna get cheap results. [07:22.0 – 07:30.4] You’re gonna get damage, and, and your, your district or your group or, or your members in AA are gonna be the poorer for it. [07:30.4 – 07:32.1] Buy quality products. [07:32.1 – 07:33.5] Know what you’re getting. [07:33.5 – 07:38.8] Are you referring to, like, Office Depot, things like that, the packages? [07:38.8 – 07:40.1] Are they archival quality? [07:40.1 – 07:41.3] Some. [07:41.3 – 07:41.3] Yeah. [07:41.3 – 07:43.2] Have to be very, very, very careful. [07:43.2 – 07:43.4] Yes. [07:43.4 – 07:45.4] Talk about one other thing, too. [07:45.4 – 07:52.3] When you’re dry cleaning a document, the only reason, again, I’m handling this, this has not been treated, so I’m not worried about it. [07:52.3 – 07:54.2] I have a flat surface. [07:54.2 – 07:59.9] I will always work on blotter paper because it, two or three or four sheets, because you got a little bit of give to it. [07:59.9 – 08:10.0] And then when you are actually rubbing the document transfer pad or document’s cleaning pad material, please be real careful [08:10.0 – 08:13.5] around holes, around tears- Mm-hmm … [08:13.5 – 08:20.1] and in particular, the corners, because if you take and, and try to pull the corner in, it’ll come in. [08:20.1 – 08:21.5] It’ll also tear. [08:21.5 – 08:27.5] Be very, very careful when you get to the corners to go from the inside of the document out. [08:27.5 – 08:31.6] Don’t try to come in the other way, ’cause you’ll fold that corner back up. [08:31.6 – 08:37.2] And let’s face it, some materials, some materials are brittle enough, I guarantee they’re gonna crack. [08:37.2 – 08:38.9] And then you got another job to do. [08:38.9 – 08:40.1] It’s called tissue repair. [08:40.1 – 08:41.5] You had a hand up. [08:41.5 – 08:51.9] No, I was just gonna say, isn’t it better for us to use these two fingers than to use this one for- I take and use mine because I got pretty large hands, and two fingers will do, but you can actually take all four [08:51.9 – 08:52.5] is fine. [08:52.5 – 08:57.1] Just be real, real careful when you get to the edge to just cut it down. [08:57.1 – 09:03.0] Two fingers is probably enough for anything around damage or in particular where there is a tear. [09:03.0 – 09:08.0] How long do these pads last? [09:08.0 – 09:08.7] Long time. [09:08.7 – 09:11.2] Uh, where’s that one I had right here? [09:11.2 – 09:13.5] Um, I’m passing both of them around. [09:13.5 – 09:23.5] We’ve, we- I’ve gone through a whole [09:23.5 – 09:25.3] bunch of pamphlets. [09:25.3 – 09:26.7] Yeah. [09:26.7 – 09:28.3] And that’s still very, very full. [09:28.3 – 09:29.6] You can see it’s still coming out. [09:29.6 – 09:33.1] We’ve done hundreds of documents, uh, in Washington that, uh, we’ve still… [09:33.1 – 09:35.5] Looks like it’s just taken out of the bag. [09:35.5 – 09:37.4] There’s, there’s a lot of material in it. [09:37.4 – 09:37.6] Yes. [09:37.6 – 09:40.2] What again is that, the, the material that’s in the bag? [09:40.2 – 09:41.7] It’s a, it’s a rubber product. [09:41.7 – 09:42.3] It’s a… [09:42.3 – 09:45.1] I’m not exactly sure whether it’s India rubber or, or what. [09:45.1 – 09:48.6] Does it- Yeah. [09:48.6 – 09:50.2] They call it Art Gum … [09:50.2 – 09:52.7] Yeah, it might be Art Gum. [09:52.7 – 10:01.3] Super soft, grit free powder that will absorb dirt and dust, and that’s all it says. [10:01.3 – 10:01.5] Yeah. [10:01.5 – 10:05.1] Um, let’s talk about erasers for a little bit. [10:05.1 – 10:07.6] Art Gum, who mentioned Art Gum? [10:07.6 – 10:10.3] Back here, or this one. [10:10.3 – 10:16.7] Only, only, only as a last resort should we get into the erasers. [10:16.7 – 10:26.8] This is a very genteel eraser, and the only thing I would use this for is we were given, oh, two or three first edition [10:26.8 – 10:32.6] whatnot books where I guess they let their little grandson take a pencil to it. [10:33.2 – 10:40.6] And on the front c- uh, inside the, the, um, uh, facing page and the end sheets, it’s all full of pencil. [10:40.6 – 10:40.6] Yeah. [10:40.6 – 10:43.3] Let’s face it, a lot of that won’t come off. [10:43.3 – 10:50.4] I will try to get it off, but remember, as long as you’re rubbing an eraser on that page, you could do damage. [10:50.4 – 10:51.7] You could weaken the page. [10:51.7 – 10:52.9] Mm. [10:52.9 – 10:53.7] What can we do with it? [10:53.7 – 10:56.0] Let’s say it’s a perfectly conditioned book. [10:56.0 – 10:57.3] Well, it’s real simple. [10:57.3 – 11:01.1] I will replace the entire end sheet and the facing page. [11:01.1 – 11:08.3] I have, uh, a, a source that I use of old paper, the old papers in the 1930s. [11:08.3 – 11:12.6] I’d like to talk about that for a minute, because I’m asking for help. [11:12.6 – 11:20.6] There is a scrapbook, we do not know who manufactured it because nobody… [11:20.6 – 11:23.6] The, the manufacturer’s information is not on it. [11:23.6 – 11:30.2] You know what a large scrapbook is, yay big, yay wide and yay thick, and it’s full of 1930s paper. [11:30.2 – 11:40.8] It is an exact duplicate of your first, second, third, right on down through sixth and seventh printings of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. [11:40.8 – 11:44.8] It is green, and on the cover it says Scrapbook. [11:44.8 – 11:54.2] So if we will look out, wherever we go back to for these things, I’m in dire need of one of them. [11:54.2 – 11:55.0] Yeah. [11:55.0 – 11:56.5] It’s a wonderful source. [11:56.5 – 12:06.9] Let’s just say that you go to a flea market and you find a big huge book of whatever, praise and poetry or something, and those pages are old 1930s [12:06.9 – 12:08.1] paper. [12:08.1 – 12:13.6] These guys love t- they didn’t at first, but now they know what I’m up to, but they love to see you come in. [12:13.6 – 12:22.5] I buy the book from them for a buck, and what I do is I ver- I’ve got my scalpel that I carry with me, and I cut out all those blank end sheets. [12:22.5 – 12:25.9] Old books usually will have four or five pages- Yeah … [12:25.9 – 12:26.6] of blank paper. [12:26.6 – 12:29.9] I can repair two more big books with that old paper. [12:29.9 – 12:36.5] Be real, real careful, though, when you scalpel it out, not to cut the text or cut the cover. [12:36.5 – 12:44.4] And then what really gets them is when you take the book when you’re done and say, “You can go ahead and sell this now.” And he makes another buck and a half. [12:44.4 – 12:46.0] You got a friend for life that way. [12:46.0 – 12:51.6] Because if you ask him to look for more, he will do that, or she. [12:51.6 – 12:53.6] Somebody had their hand up. [12:53.6 – 12:55.3] I did about the paper. [12:55.3 – 12:57.6] There’s diff- the, the history of paper. [12:57.6 – 13:02.7] When did it start, uh- I’ll be, I’ll be talking about that during, uh, the acidification. [13:02.7 – 13:02.7] There you go. [13:02.7 – 13:03.0] Okay. [13:03.0 – 13:05.4] ‘Cause he said 1930s, and I was wondering- Mm-hmm … [13:05.4 – 13:06.9] well, that wasn’t really good paper. [13:06.9 – 13:07.3] Mm-hmm. [13:07.3 – 13:08.6] But I see what you mean. [13:08.6 – 13:11.1] We can get a conservation workshop in Arkansas. [13:11.1 – 13:21.4] I’ll have my co- the other conservator, uh, who trained in a monastery with the monks up in either Seattle [13:21.4 – 13:23.8] or maybe Washington State or Oregon. [13:23.8 – 13:24.8] We, we didn’t have monks in Seattle. [13:24.8 – 13:27.8] He knows the history of paper backwards and forwards. [13:27.8 – 13:31.9] And, and I don’t know where this workshop is going to go next year. [13:31.9 – 13:35.6] I would like to see it go continue. [13:35.6 – 13:41.6] But if it goes to the right place, we will get him on the schedule somehow. [13:41.6 – 13:42.9] He will use the time. [13:42.9 – 13:43.0] Dr. [13:43.0 – 13:44.9] Ferguson will allow us to do that. [13:44.9 – 13:49.2] So any more questions? [13:49.2 – 13:49.6] Yes. [13:49.6 – 13:55.3] Yeah, I thought I came up with a couple sheets for you for, uh, your big book with, uh, end papers- Uh-huh … [13:55.3 – 13:56.7] but I wasn’t clear. [13:56.7 – 13:57.9] It’s like they were loose. [13:57.9 – 14:03.7] And, uh, it seemed like it might have been even a later, later type of paper, ’40s or ’50s scrap. [14:03.7 – 14:06.5] If- But I wasn’t sure if that was still the same or not. [14:06.5 – 14:09.2] If there’s any do- any doubt, get them to us. [14:09.2 – 14:09.8] Okay. [14:09.8 – 14:10.4] Get them to us. [14:10.4 – 14:11.0] Yes, ma’am. [14:11.0 – 14:19.9] Will the material in the dry erase or the dry cleaning things, will the material in that go bad before you can use it? [14:19.9 – 14:20.7] No. [14:20.7 – 14:20.9] Nah. [14:20.9 – 14:26.6] The quickest thing you can do to a letter, let’s just say… [14:26.6 – 14:30.3] I’ll be darned. [14:30.3 – 14:33.9] It’s perfectly flat right now except for one more wrinkle. [14:33.9 – 14:37.7] And you can see what weights will do. [14:37.7 – 14:44.6] Let’s just say you got this letter in, and let’s just say that the General Service Office sent it, and it’s the first one your archive’s ever had. [14:44.6 – 14:50.4] The best thing in the world I can do is, where’s the acid-free folders? [14:50.4 – 14:52.6] Is just drop it in an acid-free folder. [14:52.6 – 14:57.6] Now, let’s just say you got a couple of young ladies or a couple of young guys or, or even the old-timers. [14:57.6 – 14:59.4] I like to get the old-timers. [14:59.4 – 15:02.5] You know, I’d like to get Harry back up there with me and- Yeah … [15:02.5 – 15:03.7] and we’re gonna do some work. [15:03.7 – 15:04.9] It would be wonderful. [15:04.9 – 15:11.7] But if, if we take and do that, I have them do the simple conservation methods. [15:11.7 – 15:17.3] And if you give them something to do, they get interested as a hog finding acorn in the woods. [15:17.3 – 15:19.0] I mean, you know, it really happened. [15:19.0 – 15:21.1] And they, and they are excited. [15:21.1 – 15:24.0] Don’t have them there without something to do. [15:24.0 – 15:31.0] If you have them there without something to do, they’re slowly but surely gonna drift away, and you won’t see them again till a new energetic bunch comes in. [15:31.0 – 15:33.7] Now, what can we do with this letter? [15:33.7 – 15:42.5] The best thing in the world we can do is as long as there’s not any writing, and there is, but this is ink and we’re okay, is I just dry clean it. [15:42.5 – 15:43.5] That’s all I do. [15:43.5 – 15:46.1] I drop it in an acid-free folder. [15:46.1 – 15:49.1] Also, one of the things that we can do, and it, this is really- [15:49.3 – 15:51.3] nice is that it’s called a Philly folder. [15:51.3 – 15:53.9] You take it- Not silly, Philly. [15:53.9 – 15:55.1] Philly, as in Philadelphia. [15:55.1 – 15:56.3] I believe that’s where it- … [15:56.3 – 15:57.5] where it came from. [15:57.5 – 16:01.2] Um, you- in, in encapsulation, we use a double-stick tape. [16:01.2 – 16:04.8] This is a 3M product, 415, is what it’s called, 3M 415. [16:04.8 – 16:06.3] It’s a double stick tape. [16:06.3 – 16:15.9] It’s a, a pH neutral tape, and you take a piece of mylar, or 4/5D, uh, Melinex, I believe is what they’re using now. [16:15.9 – 16:16.6] Or polyester. [16:16.6 – 16:17.4] Or polyester. [16:17.4 – 16:27.3] And you take, and you put a strip of the double stick tape right here with your piece of mylar, and you attach it. [16:27.3 – 16:35.5] Where- And then what you do is once your piece is, is taken care of, you can simply insert your piece in. [16:35.5 – 16:39.7] You can close it up. [16:39.7 – 16:42.5] It’s always hard to do- Probably static electricity. [16:42.5 – 16:43.1] I don’t know why … [16:43.1 – 16:44.7] hard to do, hard to do with gloves, too. [16:44.7 – 16:45.1] There you go. [16:45.1 – 16:45.1] Oh, my God. [16:45.1 – 16:47.1] Didn’t pass the mic. [16:47.1 – 16:48.1] It might’ve been too far. [16:48.1 – 16:48.4] There you go. [16:48.4 – 16:56.6] And now you can say, “Here’s my document.” You can now, you can now handle that document. [16:56.6 – 17:04.8] Please don’t put the s- the tape on the fold side of the document, ’cause you picked it, the, the, the, the- Yeah … [17:04.8 – 17:06.0] I’m sorry, the folder up. [17:06.0 – 17:07.1] The letter’s gonna fall out. [17:07.1 – 17:08.7] Yes, you wanna put it on the- But on the other end … [17:08.7 – 17:09.2] the other side. [17:09.2 – 17:10.6] Some questions back there. [17:10.6 – 17:14.9] You keep talking about acid-free folders. [17:14.9 – 17:22.7] In our area, we tend to use a lot of sheet protectors, and I haven’t heard you talk a lot about sheet protectors. [17:22.7 – 17:27.4] It would be the archival- Daylord, Avery, wonderful. [17:27.4 – 17:27.9] Daylord. [17:27.9 – 17:30.7] Uh, somebody mentioned Off- Who’s mentioned Office Depot? [17:30.7 – 17:31.2] Mm-hmm. [17:31.2 – 17:31.6] Right. [17:31.6 – 17:32.0] Somebody. [17:32.0 – 17:35.0] That’s where- You can buy big bulk quantities of Averys. [17:35.0 – 17:36.5] You did mention the folders. [17:36.5 – 17:36.6] Yeah. [17:36.6 – 17:37.3] Sure. [17:37.3 – 17:37.7] But does one have those than another, or? [17:37.7 – 17:42.5] Well, it depends on what, on how you’re going to display your piece. [17:42.5 – 17:52.8] Or we have, we have some districts in Washington that put everything into the, um, the acid-free plastic page protectors, [17:52.8 – 17:53.4] okay? [17:53.4 – 17:56.1] Which is what you’re talking about, and they put them in binders. [17:56.1 – 17:56.2] Mm-hmm. [17:56.2 – 18:02.7] Now, that works, but the only problem with a page protector is the top is open. [18:02.7 – 18:11.4] Now, as archivists, we need to remember that there’s environmental damage out there, especially in this day and age, and that later on, we’ll be talking about encapsulation. [18:11.4 – 18:12.8] Especially in California. [18:12.8 – 18:13.6] Uh, sh. [18:13.6 – 18:15.3] Aw. [18:15.3 – 18:18.7] Um, encapsulation covers all four sides, okay? [18:18.7 – 18:19.7] There’s… [18:19.7 – 18:22.0] This thing cannot get environmental damage. [18:22.0 – 18:32.0] But a piece of page protector with your piece inside is open to one side, and that allows any type of atmosphere to come [18:32.0 – 18:34.7] in, which is going to deteriorate your piece. [18:34.7 – 18:36.7] So it depends on what it… [18:36.7 – 18:40.2] Are you putting copies of things in page protectors to protect them? [18:40.2 – 18:42.4] Fine, go ahead and do that. [18:42.4 – 18:46.4] Are you putting original letters in page protectors to show them? [18:46.4 – 18:48.8] Not to show them, to protect them. [18:48.8 – 18:49.1] Mm-hmm. [18:49.1 – 18:56.6] Well, as a temporary protection, yes, I’d say rather than leaving them in a pile in a folder, yes, go ahead. [18:56.6 – 19:01.7] But s- you have to think somewhere down the line, what, what am I ultimately going to be doing with this document? [19:01.7 – 19:05.3] How is it ultimately going to be protected? [19:05.3 – 19:05.5] Yes. [19:05.5 – 19:06.8] Can you seal the top of that then? [19:06.8 – 19:09.3] Well, how are you gonna seal it? [19:09.3 – 19:11.4] I don’t know. [19:11.4 – 19:11.8] What do you have? [19:11.8 – 19:21.9] Most, most of- Maybe if you got with the- Well, most, uh, eight and a half by 11 size page protectors fit an eight and a half by 11 size sheet of paper that go [19:21.9 – 19:22.7] right to the top. [19:22.7 – 19:25.5] Do you wanna trim off a quarter inch of your document? [19:25.5 – 19:27.8] So, well, that one’s double-sided. [19:27.8 – 19:33.9] But do you have something, do they make a similar product that you can just use on the outside of it like that or? [19:33.9 – 19:41.8] Averys and, and these that she’s talking about, as I remember, the letters pretty well fit in just right in there, and that’s it. [19:41.8 – 19:41.9] Yeah. [19:41.9 – 19:42.3] I mean, that’s it. [19:42.3 – 19:42.9] You can… [19:42.9 – 19:45.7] You could put- Use something- You could … [19:45.7 – 19:45.7] on the outside. [19:45.7 – 19:46.3] You could. [19:46.3 – 19:51.3] The only problem about that, though, is what if ha- what happens if you turn your… [19:51.3 – 19:58.1] Say you put, you know, your, you’ve used a piece of archival safe pH neutral tape- Uh-huh … [19:58.1 – 20:00.2] over the two sides, uh, to cover the top. [20:00.2 – 20:01.5] Right. [20:01.5 – 20:03.2] And your document gets turned upside down. [20:03.2 – 20:04.0] Mm-hmm. [20:04.0 – 20:05.2] Where does that document go? [20:05.2 – 20:06.6] It goes right onto the tape. [20:06.6 – 20:07.0] Onto the tape. [20:07.0 – 20:10.5] And, and then you turn it back this way, and it is now stuck to this. [20:10.5 – 20:14.0] And you try and remove it, you could rip and cause damage to your document. [20:14.0 – 20:15.4] Okay. [20:15.4 – 20:17.5] How about double bagging it to block the glare? [20:17.5 – 20:19.7] Well, first off, let, let me explain. [20:19.7 – 20:23.4] The, uh, I, I really wanna discourage you from doing this. [20:23.4 – 20:33.8] There, there are, there are, uh, comic book collectors out there that put their comics in, uh, plastic bags just like that with a little flap over the top, [20:33.8 – 20:38.0] and I’ll be talking about this a l- this afternoon after lunch on deacidification. [20:38.0 – 20:41.3] What happens during deacidification? [20:41.3 – 20:51.4] The, the, the sulfur dioxide gases in the paper that was produced, and we’ll talk about that, uh, from the late 1800s to about 1965, [20:51.4 – 21:01.5] used the sulfur process, where they used the sulfur, uh, sulfuric acid in the process to bind the lignin, uh, fibers together [21:01.5 – 21:03.8] in the paper and to use it as a bleach. [21:03.8 – 21:05.5] Well, after- [21:05.7 – 21:10.5] 40 years, your paper starts liberating sulfur dioxide gas. [21:10.5 – 21:13.2] That’s what causes the paper… [21:13.2 – 21:14.6] You ever seen old newspapers? [21:14.6 – 21:15.9] They turn brown. [21:15.9 – 21:18.6] We’ve got, we’ve got an example right here. [21:18.6 – 21:21.6] We’ll be showing you some of these. [21:21.6 – 21:26.3] Now, of course, these ones are, uh, the- we can all blame Charles and his, his people for this. [21:26.3 – 21:28.9] Here’s tape on the newspapers, and you see how it’s turned brown? [21:28.9 – 21:32.7] That is acidified with the tape, but every one of these has turned brown. [21:32.7 – 21:34.5] That’s acidification. [21:34.5 – 21:36.0] Okay. [21:36.0 – 21:44.6] Bob, Bob told us a wonderful example one time where, where he, uh, he had two pieces of newspaper that were very badly acidified. [21:44.6 – 21:48.6] One he encapsulated, he deacidified and encapsulated- Right … [21:48.6 – 21:49.3] and one he didn’t. [21:49.3 – 21:52.8] And he showed his assembly, and he took me w- to the one that was encapsulated. [21:52.8 – 21:53.4] Nothing happened. [21:53.4 – 21:59.2] He went to this one, and it dissolved into myriad little, tiny pieces of paper. [21:59.2 – 22:03.0] That’s what happens with acidification. [22:03.0 – 22:10.0] Comic book people will put their books inside these plastic bags and enclose it. [22:10.0 – 22:17.2] What happens when you enclose something that’s liberating a bad agent or sulfuric acid, sulfur dioxide gas? [22:17.2 – 22:19.2] It concentrates. [22:19.2 – 22:19.5] Mm-hmm. [22:19.5 – 22:29.8] And as that gets more and more and more gas inside this, it increases and it, it causes the, uh, the acidification to, uh, to, to increase, [22:29.8 – 22:34.4] uh, exponentially, and so I don’t recommend that kind of process. [22:34.4 – 22:43.2] I, I recommend encapsulation or, or putting it into a folder with, uh, a buffered paper in between. [22:43.2 – 22:45.0] That’s what we do in our repository. [22:45.0 – 22:48.3] Like Bob was saying, we don’t show the original pieces out there. [22:48.3 – 22:51.2] They’re too valuable unless they’re encapsulated. [22:51.2 – 22:52.5] Yes? [22:52.5 – 23:02.6] So, if you’re putting the documents in the folder with the paper in between, that is- Well, it depends on how you store [23:02.6 – 23:05.0] it, where your storage environment is. [23:05.0 – 23:06.5] There’s a lot of factors. [23:06.5 – 23:12.9] What we’re trying to do now is, is to arrest the acidification. [23:12.9 – 23:15.0] That was what’s important. [23:15.0 – 23:17.7] And I, like I say, once again, I will get into this more this afternoon. [23:17.7 – 23:18.9] That’s what we’re trying to do. [23:18.9 – 23:26.7] You can never s- you can never go back and fix it, but you can s- you can halt that process where it turns brittle and brown. [23:26.7 – 23:28.7] So you’re saying this is your temporary process? [23:28.7 – 23:31.4] No, this is a long-term process for us. [23:31.4 – 23:33.8] What, what we do is we ac- we deacidify. [23:33.8 – 23:36.0] Encapsulation is… [23:36.0 – 23:39.7] Deacidification and encapsulation is an expensive process. [23:39.7 – 23:42.2] This, this one… [23:42.2 – 23:49.3] You know, like I say, I wanted to get into this, this afternoon, but this one can here, $35. [23:49.3 – 23:53.7] You’re talking maybe, maybe if you’re lucky, 40 documents. [23:53.7 – 23:57.7] And then you’ve got your Mylar for encapsulation. [23:57.7 – 23:58.9] You’ve got the tape. [23:58.9 – 24:00.7] The time. [24:00.7 – 24:01.2] The time. [24:01.2 – 24:02.0] The personnel. [24:02.0 – 24:08.5] And once you’ve encapsulated those 40 documents, you’ve spent $100, maybe. [24:08.5 – 24:12.8] But those things are now permanently protected. [24:12.8 – 24:13.2] Yes. [24:13.2 – 24:14.9] But do you have… [24:14.9 – 24:20.8] W- I’ve got 50,000 pieces of paper in my archives for the, for the area. [24:20.8 – 24:26.1] Uh, admittedly, 85% of those are copies. [24:26.1 – 24:33.9] But for those 15%, I don’t have the money in my budget to encapsulate every piece, only the ones that we wanna put in our traveling exhibit for show. [24:33.9 – 24:36.7] So what we do is we deacidify. [24:36.7 – 24:37.9] We put… [24:37.9 – 24:41.4] We take a, a folder. [24:41.4 – 24:46.1] We take a folder. [24:46.1 – 24:47.3] We deacidify the piece. [24:47.3 – 24:52.0] We use gloves after you’ve used it, and I’ll talk this more this afternoon. [24:52.0 – 24:52.6] Put the piece in. [24:52.6 – 24:54.8] You put a piece of buffered interleaving paper in it. [24:54.8 – 24:56.2] You put your next piece down. [24:56.2 – 25:00.9] You put a piece of buffered interleaving paper till you get, like, five, six, however many documents you’ve got. [25:00.9 – 25:02.1] Close it back up. [25:02.1 – 25:08.7] Goes in a, in a, a acid-free Pentaplex folder inside of an acid-free stack box. [25:08.7 – 25:18.6] It’s now protected from the environment at least better than it was just sitting in one of these- On the top of a tiling can … [25:18.6 – 25:28.4] these old non-acid free folders, which are, which are causing damage to these pieces as we speak. [25:28.4 – 25:29.8] Okay? [25:29.8 – 25:31.2] Does that make sense? [25:31.2 – 25:31.9] Mm-hmm. [25:31.9 – 25:32.4] It, it is… [25:32.4 – 25:37.5] It’s not the best long-term, but it’s the most economical and cost-effective for us. [25:37.5 – 25:45.8] So, if we’re making our best effort at doing the short-term process in terms of what we can do and everything like that, it’s better than not doing anything at all. [25:45.8 – 25:47.1] That’s the quickest way. [25:47.1 – 25:57.2] Yes, but what you’re doing is also acceptable, but you have to understand, am I doing this for today, or am I doing this for [25:57.2 – 25:59.2] 50 or 100 years from today? [25:59.2 – 26:01.9] Alcoholics Anonymous is what? [26:01.9 – 26:03.7] 66 years this year? [26:03.7 – 26:04.6] 67 years? [26:04.6 – 26:05.9] 67. [26:05.9 – 26:06.3] Okay. [26:06.3 – 26:10.7] We have stuff from 67 years ago which is preserved today. [26:10.7 – 26:14.0] Do we want that to be around for another 67 years? [26:14.0 – 26:14.3] Yes. [26:14.3 – 26:19.4] You have to weigh a lot of factors in what you do in this process. [26:19.4 – 26:21.9] Bob has been doing this for a long time- [26:22.5 – 26:23.3] He has a good budget. [26:23.3 – 26:29.6] I’ve been doing it for a short time, and I only got a halfway budget, you know? [26:29.6 – 26:32.7] And I can only spend so much money i- in my area. [26:32.7 – 26:34.5] But so we try and do the best that we can. [26:34.5 – 26:43.0] We, we asked our area for additional funds for three years to do our deacidification process, and that was $1,000 a year for three years. [26:43.0 – 26:44.5] We normally get $500. [26:44.5 – 26:45.5] We’re at the… [26:45.5 – 26:47.2] We’re coming to the end of our three-year process. [26:47.2 – 26:49.3] We’re only a quarter of the way done. [26:49.3 – 26:52.1] Okay? [26:52.1 – 26:55.5] So this is our least expensive Yeah … [26:55.5 – 26:56.7] if we’re going to preserve it for now. [26:56.7 – 26:58.3] Say, say you’re… [26:58.3 – 27:03.8] Say you’ve got this document that you wanna, you wanna show to people that are working in your archive room. [27:03.8 – 27:10.4] This is the easiest and quickest way for you to, once you’ve preserved that piece, to show it to people. [27:10.4 – 27:13.4] This is not a long-term situation. [27:13.4 – 27:15.5] There’s three sides that are open to the environment. [27:15.5 – 27:21.1] All this does is this allows you, without having to put a pair of gloves on, to- To show … [27:21.1 – 27:22.2] to show that document. [27:22.2 – 27:23.4] That’s why we wanted to show this to you. [27:23.4 – 27:27.6] It’s just a temporary- Immediate way. [27:27.6 – 27:27.8] That’s a fast way. [27:27.8 – 27:28.8] It’s a fast way to do that. [27:28.8 – 27:29.7] If you had… [27:29.7 – 27:34.7] Say you ha- say you had something you wanted to bring out to show someone out of your stack room. [27:34.7 – 27:34.7] Yeah. [27:34.7 – 27:36.9] You could put it in one of these Filly Folders. [27:36.9 – 27:37.9] They could take a look at this. [27:37.9 – 27:39.7] They could write down the information. [27:39.7 – 27:40.7] Yeah. [27:40.7 – 27:41.3] And then they could… [27:41.3 – 27:44.5] You could take it and put it back in, into your, into your stack box. [27:44.5 – 27:47.3] And you only tape that on just the one side? [27:47.3 – 27:48.0] Just the one side. [27:48.0 – 27:49.1] You’ll see it when it comes around. [27:49.1 – 27:50.0] Okay. [27:50.0 – 27:53.3] But this is, this is already deacidified, or- No, no. [27:53.3 – 27:55.2] That, that’s the piece we’ve been working on all morning. [27:55.2 – 27:56.7] That’s the whole point is, is to- Yeah … [27:56.7 – 27:59.3] do something like this to at least- Yeah. [27:59.3 – 28:00.0] Once, once… [28:00.0 – 28:02.4] I’ll go- To continue any further damage to it. [28:02.4 – 28:02.8] Yes. [28:02.8 – 28:03.8] Okay. [28:03.8 – 28:05.7] I’ll go through that later this, more this afternoon. [28:05.7 – 28:06.0] Yes? [28:06.0 – 28:13.2] What is the, uh, general life of a sheet of paper that’s not been Ooh. [28:13.2 – 28:15.8] That- All depends on the environment … [28:15.8 – 28:16.2] depends on the, the paper … [28:16.2 – 28:16.3] it comes from. [28:16.3 – 28:16.8] Is it, is it linen? [28:16.8 – 28:17.6] Is it cotton? [28:17.6 – 28:18.2] Is it rag? [28:18.2 – 28:19.7] What kind of paper is it? [28:19.7 – 28:21.1] Paper. [28:21.1 – 28:22.4] Was it kept in a garage? [28:22.4 – 28:23.2] Yeah. [28:23.2 – 28:25.3] Were carbon dioxides in the air? [28:25.3 – 28:26.5] You know, things like that. [28:26.5 – 28:27.8] I’m dealing with papers… [28:27.8 – 28:29.2] I’m the archivist for my city. [28:29.2 – 28:29.7] Mm-hmm. [28:29.7 – 28:35.5] I’m dealing with papers that were in a sea trunk for 100 years, and they look as good… [28:35.5 – 28:40.4] And they’re, they’re dated 1855 to 1895. [28:40.4 – 28:47.1] They are g- good paper, for one, but they look like they were written on the- yesterday- Wow … [28:47.1 – 28:50.4] ’cause they’ve been kept in a closed environment. [28:50.4 – 28:52.0] Once I take these out… [28:52.0 – 28:52.4] I’ve been… [28:52.4 – 29:01.5] I, I, I worked constantly, nonstop for almost three weeks to deacidify and encapsulate every one of those documents, because now they’re out into the environment. [29:01.5 – 29:10.0] So now th- now they’re gonna stay looking that good, I think they’re saying now 150 years, I think. [29:10.0 – 29:20.4] If I deacidify a letter for you to, and, uh, within the next 150, 200 years, uh, something looks like there’s acid in it, you come back and tell me, and we’ll [29:20.4 – 29:21.0] look at it. [29:21.0 – 29:23.9] That’s what, that’s what the science of the day is telling you. [29:23.9 – 29:28.2] Look up a letter that someone had normally filed within a file that- Okay. [29:28.2 – 29:29.6] An original letter? [29:29.6 – 29:30.5] An original letter. [29:30.5 – 29:30.7] Okay. [29:30.7 – 29:33.0] I- In a, in an environment that’s 100%. [29:33.0 – 29:33.9] Yes. [29:33.9 – 29:40.2] So that’s the approach with- If, if it is… [29:40.2 – 29:41.4] How, how old was the document? [29:41.4 – 29:42.9] New. [29:42.9 – 29:43.3] Brand new? [29:43.3 – 29:44.7] Yeah. [29:44.7 – 29:46.7] A brand new document, how long will it last? [29:46.7 – 29:47.9] How valuable is it? [29:47.9 – 29:49.2] No. [29:49.2 – 29:56.7] I’m just thinking of people who just put things in files, and current and, uh- The paper today is pretty good. [29:56.7 – 29:57.5] Okay. [29:57.5 – 30:05.0] Okay, and I’ll ta- uh, the paper today is not, does not use a quarter of the acid process that they used years ago. [30:05.0 – 30:06.6] It’s good stuff. [30:06.6 – 30:14.8] Uh, unless you buy the real cheap bond like Office Depot, whatever, um, you wanna, you wanna use a good bond paper if you’re gonna be doing… [30:14.8 – 30:17.3] A- and Bob stresses acid-free for your copies. [30:17.3 – 30:19.8] We use acid-free on our copies. [30:19.8 – 30:22.1] We take an original piece and make a copy of it. [30:22.1 – 30:25.5] We take and we put that piece away. [30:25.5 – 30:27.7] We now have a reference of that original piece. [30:27.7 – 30:28.8] I now have a copy that I’m… [30:28.8 – 30:34.1] I can make a copy and a copy and a copy and a copy and a copy and a copy of, and that I can show to you. [30:34.1 – 30:38.1] Because what is, what’s important about the, the piece that you’re preserving? [30:38.1 – 30:48.1] You’re preserving the historical, uh, content of the paper, but you’re also sh- you’re also wanted to sh- as archivists, it doesn’t do you any good to [30:48.1 – 30:52.4] preserve this stuff and lock it away, ’cause then no one else gets the chance to see it. [30:52.4 – 30:54.9] So what do you do? [30:54.9 – 30:57.0] You share that information with anyone else. [30:57.0 – 30:58.7] That’s, as a archivist, that’s what we do. [30:58.7 – 30:59.8] We share the information. [30:59.8 – 31:02.9] We preserve and we share the information from the past. [31:02.9 – 31:04.1] So you share the copy. [31:04.1 – 31:05.5] Okay? [31:05.5 – 31:06.3] I understand all of that. [31:06.3 – 31:06.9] I know you do. [31:06.9 – 31:09.6] But you said that a 50-year life on preservation. [31:09.6 – 31:10.4] Approximately. [31:10.4 – 31:11.1] I would say yes. [31:11.1 – 31:20.3] But, but if you wanna wait and you wanna say, “Oh, well, I’ll let, I’ll let Joe Schmo 50 years down the line deal with this document.” Okay. [31:20.3 – 31:24.3] What’s the quickest way you can do something with that document if you had the equipment? [31:24.3 – 31:27.3] Try it for no less than- Other than that, we don’t have this. [31:27.3 – 31:28.6] What’s the quickest way you could do it? [31:28.6 – 31:33.2] Acid-free bond, run it through a copy machine, and put the original in, put it in the file. [31:33.2 – 31:34.1] Yeah. [31:34.1 – 31:35.3] Got it. [31:35.3 – 31:36.1] And we do that. [31:36.1 – 31:38.3] We keep the original, and we respect it, and- [31:38.9 – 31:39.0] Yeah. [31:39.0 – 31:40.4] Yes? [31:40.4 – 31:42.0] I just had a quick, uh… [31:42.0 – 31:52.1] Once you, uh, treat the original document and you make a copy of it, what’s the, uh, p- [31:52.1 – 31:59.6] possibilities of, uh, scanning the original document? [31:59.6 – 32:03.9] Aaron, you’re, you, you guys are doing scanning at, at, in GSO, aren’t you? [32:03.9 – 32:06.3] I, isn’t, aren’t they… [32:06.3 – 32:06.7] Is she not here? [32:06.7 – 32:06.9] She’s not here. [32:06.9 – 32:08.0] Okay. [32:08.0 – 32:10.6] I think GSO is, is going through a scanning process. [32:10.6 – 32:14.9] A scanner, a copier- Mm-hmm … [32:14.9 – 32:15.8] all use- Right … [32:15.8 – 32:17.1] high intensity light. [32:17.1 – 32:19.8] Light is one of our enemies. [32:19.8 – 32:20.4] Oh, okay. [32:20.4 – 32:25.9] Light, water, heat, those are all our enemies. [32:25.9 – 32:26.5] Right. [32:26.5 – 32:26.8] Okay? [32:26.8 – 32:33.8] Paper is still the best medium to preserve information to date. [32:33.8 – 32:38.2] It’s not tape, it’s not CDs, it’s paper. [32:38.2 – 32:43.0] What general service office is scanning now are the… [32:43.0 – 32:47.8] Correct me if I’m wrong, I think they’re still into that project. [32:47.8 – 32:49.9] They are doing the Bill Wilson, the Dr. [32:49.9 – 32:53.1] Bob Smith, and the Bill Dodson, and, and the Dr. [32:53.1 – 32:58.5] Silkworth, all of those letters that were really fragmented and deteriorated. [32:58.5 – 33:04.1] They have scanned them so that we can go ahead and, and at least not lose the material. [33:04.1 – 33:06.8] So- Scanning is, scanning is a good process, yes. [33:06.8 – 33:09.2] If you wanna scan- But that’s awfully high intensity … [33:09.2 – 33:19.3] scan it once so that you can then disseminate that information through, through your disk or through your electronic media, yes. [33:19.3 – 33:22.5] But don’t scan it and then go scan it again, and then go scan it again. [33:22.5 – 33:23.3] Same with copying. [33:23.3 – 33:24.6] Don’t copy it once. [33:24.6 – 33:26.2] Oh, gee, I need 10 copies. [33:26.2 – 33:27.7] Let’s make 10 copies from the original. [33:27.7 – 33:31.5] You’re gonna get that bright light hitting that document, and it… [33:31.5 – 33:40.6] I don’t know exactly what the, the l- the formula for the, uh, degradation of paper is with the high xenon lamps that they use, but it is quite intense. [33:40.6 – 33:41.6] Hold up right there. [33:41.6 – 33:45.0] Let’s just say that we have a heavily used document. [33:45.0 – 33:46.6] I don’t know what that document would be. [33:46.6 – 33:48.4] Let’s just for practical purposes. [33:48.4 – 33:48.8] Oh. [33:48.8 – 33:51.7] We have a letter, we use a lot of copy- copies of it. [33:51.7 – 33:59.0] Whenever we do that, and we don’t have that many, but we do have a few, we will take and we will make three copies of that letter. [33:59.0 – 34:07.8] One of those copies is treated and retained almost as priceless as the original. [34:07.8 – 34:15.0] We take those other two copies, and it’s a little petition with, with, uh, acid free petition, we put them in the back. [34:15.0 – 34:19.2] Only one of those copies is used for other copies. [34:19.2 – 34:23.7] Sooner or later, sooner or later, that copy will be no good. [34:23.7 – 34:26.8] We will take the second copy and make a couple more. [34:26.8 – 34:29.7] We never recopy the original. [34:29.7 – 34:32.4] If at all possible. [34:32.4 – 34:36.2] Another question would be Yes. [34:36.2 – 34:46.2] If I have an original document that I’ve made a copy, and then made like two [34:46.2 – 34:46.9] more copies. [34:46.9 – 34:47.5] Okay. [34:47.5 – 34:57.9] But I want to have all the original ones to scan for them so that other people can [34:57.9 – 34:58.5] read it. [34:58.5 – 34:58.9] Yes. [34:58.9 – 35:04.0] Do I use copies of the original? [35:04.0 – 35:04.8] Sure, you could. [35:04.8 – 35:05.1] Sure. [35:05.1 – 35:06.2] Sure, absolutely. [35:06.2 – 35:06.2] Sure. [35:06.2 – 35:07.8] That causes less damage to the original. [35:07.8 – 35:10.6] I mean, the process is just take the copy of it. [35:10.6 – 35:10.9] Sure, sure. [35:10.9 – 35:11.2] Sure. [35:11.2 – 35:11.5] Yeah. [35:11.5 – 35:11.8] Sure. [35:11.8 – 35:14.1] Well d- it depends on how good your original copy is. [35:14.1 – 35:17.9] You know, if you have a real cruddy copy, you’re gonna wanna use your original. [35:17.9 – 35:18.3] It depends. [35:18.3 – 35:20.4] There’s a, a, a c- a few variables. [35:20.4 – 35:21.3] How good is your original? [35:21.3 – 35:22.4] Right. [35:22.4 – 35:23.3] Is it gonna give you… [35:23.3 – 35:24.5] If, does it give you a good copy? [35:24.5 – 35:29.8] If it doesn’t give you a good copy, obviously your copy, your next copy is not gonna be that good, you know? [35:29.8 – 35:31.5] Uh, for, I used to work for Kinko’s. [35:31.5 – 35:34.1] A copy of a copy of a copy of a copy looks really- Yeah … [35:34.1 – 35:34.6] really bad. [35:34.6 – 35:36.0] Sure. [35:36.0 – 35:36.3] Okay? [35:36.3 – 35:41.4] But so, but use it, uh, very sparingly on the original. [35:41.4 – 35:42.7] As sparingly as you can. [35:42.7 – 35:51.1] Um, I, I know of some people that have used and, and made, uh, a lot of copies from their originals. [35:51.1 – 35:56.2] They’re now, they’re now as light as some of the mimeographs that you see out there, those purple mimeographs. [35:56.2 – 35:59.6] They’re very, very light, and they’ve been, been damaged. [35:59.6 – 36:08.9] I’ll ask you to answer the question about once you get the original preserved, and you make copies of them- Mm-hmm … [36:08.9 – 36:10.9] and then take the copies. [36:10.9 – 36:16.1] There’s the scan so that people want to read the original. [36:16.1 – 36:18.8] Well, you can, but, but what, why, why would you do that? [36:18.8 – 36:22.9] Scan it once, put it to disk, and then just sh- uh, share your disk with someone. [36:22.9 – 36:24.0] Okay. [36:24.0 – 36:27.3] That’s, that’s the easiest w- easiest way to use a scanner. [36:27.3 – 36:29.7] Yeah. [36:29.7 – 36:30.5] Yes? [36:30.5 – 36:31.9] Um- Doug … [36:31.9 – 36:42.6] I’m a former lighting engineer for 3D, and while I don’t have any data, my impression is that scanners are much less intense- [36:42.6 – 36:43.0] They are … [36:43.0 – 36:44.1] to our eyes. [36:44.1 – 36:44.5] Yeah, that’s correct. [36:44.5 – 36:45.9] These are less intense light. [36:45.9 – 36:52.8] The only reason I say that is strictly I have never smelled, uh, ozone from a scanner. [36:52.8 – 36:53.9] Yeah. [36:53.9 – 36:54.7] I smell it from a- [36:54.9 – 36:58.0] a copy machine all the time, and not as bad as it used to be. [36:58.0 – 37:00.1] Well, copiers create ozone. [37:00.1 – 37:10.2] There’s a, there’s a little thin wire inside that it, it has an electromagnetic charge on it, and it w- as it’s going through and making that copy, it creates an electric charge [37:10.2 – 37:13.5] through that wire, a charging wire in there, and that creates ozone. [37:13.5 – 37:14.5] That’s what you’re smelling probably. [37:14.5 – 37:17.5] But- I don’t think it’s, I don’t think the ozone’s coming off your original document. [37:17.5 – 37:20.7] I think it’s in the, in the guts of the, of the copier itself. [37:20.7 – 37:25.0] But, uh, that, that’s a clear indication of ionization there. [37:25.0 – 37:25.3] Yes. [37:25.3 – 37:29.0] If you’re ionizing air, you’re also ionizing the- Mm. [37:29.0 – 37:30.3] Well, yes, whatever around it. [37:30.3 – 37:30.9] Absolutely. [37:30.9 – 37:31.5] Good point. [37:31.5 – 37:32.6] Good point. [37:32.6 – 37:33.7] Yes? [37:33.7 – 37:41.4] If I had used that folder as a quick storage, and I’ve got the folder, and I’ve got the material- Yes … [37:41.4 – 37:51.4] and I’m excited to see this is a different way to get the files started, if I’ve used it and cleaned the material that I have not de-acid, now can I take that out, work on that sheet? [37:51.4 – 37:58.7] Is that folder any good, or has there been acid migration into that folder from a- Was it an, was it an acid-free folder? [37:58.7 – 37:59.5] Yeah. [37:59.5 – 38:02.2] Was it acid- Was it a buffered a- acid-free folder? [38:02.2 – 38:05.6] Yeah, I think it is, because it came from- Buffered, yes … [38:05.6 – 38:08.3] will it send its acid on to the next item that I put in it? [38:08.3 – 38:10.9] It’s, I mean, that’s really stretching far-fetched- Negligible … [38:10.9 – 38:12.3] but it, it, it could. [38:12.3 – 38:19.0] I always use the word buffered, like buffered acid-free bond, buffered acid-free folder. [38:19.0 – 38:19.4] Yeah. [38:19.4 – 38:25.1] What, what that means for those that don’t understand is- Keeps help from that for acid transfer. [38:25.1 – 38:26.1] Okay. [38:26.1 – 38:26.7] Yeah. [38:26.7 – 38:28.7] Well, I’ll, I’ll explain more about that this afternoon too. [38:28.7 – 38:28.9] Yes? [38:28.9 – 38:33.7] One last question on, on, to do with, uh, scanning and all. [38:33.7 – 38:44.4] Uh, one problem that I can see in some cases is when you have a very badly deteriorated, uh, item that you are scanning, it is possible [38:44.4 – 38:50.1] for clarity of the information on the document that you can go in and touch it up to some extent. [38:50.1 – 38:50.5] Yes. [38:50.5 – 38:51.9] That’s why … [38:51.9 – 38:53.2] I already talked about that- Yeah … [38:53.2 – 38:54.0] as far as General- Electronic … [38:54.0 – 39:01.7] Service office is concerned, because they’re enhancing those original letters up at GSO, and that’s why they elected to do that. [39:01.7 – 39:06.1] Uh, Judith is doing a great job in that area, and, and a lot of it is done already. [39:06.1 – 39:06.7] Yeah. [39:06.7 – 39:07.4] Yes? [39:07.4 – 39:12.5] Is there any information as, as to the least destructive form of lighting in a display room? [39:12.5 – 39:15.3] Light. [39:15.3 – 39:20.7] I don’t, I don’t- Um- I don’t see any neon lights, okay? [39:20.7 – 39:23.0] I’ve got a lot of them in my display room. [39:23.0 – 39:24.5] I have them in my stack room. [39:24.5 – 39:25.4] You mean fluorescent. [39:25.4 – 39:27.4] Fluorescent, whatever you wanna call them. [39:27.4 – 39:27.5] Yeah. [39:27.5 – 39:30.8] And back here on the table is the catalogs- Yeah … [39:30.8 – 39:34.3] and you can buy tubes which will screen out the UV. [39:34.3 – 39:37.2] Ultraviolet light is the enemy in the lighting source. [39:37.2 – 39:41.7] So, so they make, do they make UV, uh- It’s a UV filter, yes. [39:41.7 – 39:41.9] Okay. [39:41.9 – 39:44.3] You can put it right over your, your tube. [39:44.3 – 39:44.9] Mm-hmm. [39:44.9 – 39:47.6] And it’ll screen out 90% of the ultraviolet light. [39:47.6 – 39:48.6] We use those in our archives. [39:48.6 – 39:52.0] Second question has to do with laser copies for color. [39:52.0 – 40:02.1] Uh, done a couple books in, w- when I came to the display, there was a display room in which all these old, interesting, uh, college books, like Martin Man books and stuff like that, were just, uh, [40:02.1 – 40:04.7] displayed in the window onto this common room. [40:04.7 – 40:07.0] And then when they were getting, it, it was getting really faded. [40:07.0 – 40:12.6] And so I, I talked one of the guys into at least laser copying a few of the things, some of them out. [40:12.6 – 40:12.7] Mm-hmm. [40:12.7 – 40:15.8] So you can laser copy the covers so that they look like they’re the way they looked. [40:15.8 – 40:16.2] Mm-hmm. [40:16.2 – 40:21.1] Ha- have any of you, have any of you have photographs that you put on your wall and where the sunlight might get them? [40:21.1 – 40:21.6] Mm-hmm. [40:21.6 – 40:23.3] What’s happened to your photograph? [40:23.3 – 40:25.2] They fade. [40:25.2 – 40:26.2] Especially color photograph. [40:26.2 – 40:31.0] A good way to do that is when you go home, when this is over with, take a newspaper. [40:31.0 – 40:34.0] Do you have a room where the sun is in there all the time? [40:34.0 – 40:37.0] And if you don’t have any kitty cats, you can get away with it. [40:37.0 – 40:37.8] I have kitty cats. [40:37.8 – 40:38.6] So I can’t. [40:38.6 – 40:43.0] You can lay that newspaper on the floor where the sun’s on it every day. [40:43.0 – 40:49.6] It doesn’t make a difference whether it’s a, a whole big newspaper or one sheet, and just let it stay there. [40:49.6 – 40:52.4] Leave it there for a week and watch what happens. [40:52.4 – 40:58.0] Take a piece of anything and cover over half of that newspaper to prevent the sun from getting it. [40:58.0 – 41:08.3] When I do some things for our displays, I will artificially age materials for effect, for display. [41:08.3 – 41:11.0] I can use it in one of two ways. [41:11.0 – 41:21.0] And at Sun Lamps, because I also do a lot of cleaning of pictures and prints and things like that, those lamps are very, very strong, but I [41:21.0 – 41:25.1] guarantee in no time at all, they will put a, they will put a hurt on that piece of paper. [41:25.1 – 41:27.4] It’s not anything of value. [41:27.4 – 41:29.2] It’s a throwaway almost. [41:29.2 – 41:35.0] The second thing that I’ve done to actually make a much better display is, is I will age it. [41:35.0 – 41:37.8] I will dip it in a solution of tea. [41:37.8 – 41:44.1] Not full strength, but I will dip it in tea, and it makes it look like it’s 50 years old to 100 years old. [41:44.1 – 41:51.7] A lot of the old timers, and this is the reason I do that, a lot of the old timers come in, they like to see old things. [41:51.7 – 41:53.7] They don’t … [41:53.7 – 42:02.9] We have a place in Little Rock called the, uh, YES Group, Youth Enjoying Sobriety, and all their stuff is nice and new and neat and pretty and everything. [42:02.9 – 42:08.1] And when the old timers go down there, they don’t spend much time looking at the material. [42:08.1 – 42:11.0] But then you hand them some of this material- [42:11.4 – 42:13.9] And, and all of a sudden it sparks their interest. [42:13.9 – 42:14.9] Yeah. [42:14.9 – 42:15.9] Uh, we need- Yeah … [42:15.9 – 42:17.6] we need to move on to repair of torn paper. [42:17.6 – 42:18.6] We’re not gonna be done by noon. [42:18.6 – 42:20.1] We need to do repair of torn paper. [42:20.1 – 42:21.3] Yeah. [42:21.3 – 42:23.0] We gotta, we’ve gotta move on to another section here. [42:23.0 – 42:25.7] Uh, but we’re gonna have plenty of time today for all your questions, okay? [42:25.7 – 42:27.5] Hopefully they’ll, most of them- Okay … [42:27.5 – 42:28.6] will be answered by this afternoon. [42:28.6 – 42:30.1] Get the iron plugged in. [42:30.1 – 42:34.6] Here’s a good one right here. [42:34.6 – 42:40.0] Do you recommend any books on this subject? [42:40.0 – 42:41.9] There are books out there, yes. [42:41.9 – 42:43.3] Do you recommend them? [42:43.3 – 42:47.3] How can we do this? [42:47.3 – 42:48.0] Yeah. [42:48.0 – 42:55.1] My mind shut down in that respect. [42:55.1 – 42:56.1] There are some books. [42:56.1 – 43:02.0] There’s only really two that, that, uh, that you need, that I use, and in fact I use it to teach a course and they’re wonderful. [43:02.0 – 43:07.3] Um, if you will take, and I’ll give you the information later, I’ll give you the names of those two books. [43:07.3 – 43:12.4] Again, I had to keep my weight limit down. [43:12.4 – 43:22.8] By the way, any bags, and I come to find out, I, I, I’ve got a friend who’s in that career now, and any bag that approaches 50 pounds, uh, or more, I guarantee [43:22.8 – 43:23.8] it gets checked. [43:23.8 – 43:30.0] So keep it under 50, like 45 or less, and I did not wanna bring the books with me. [43:30.0 – 43:35.7] One of the things I can recommend for you, sir, uh, Gaylord puts out what’s called a Pathfinder Series. [43:35.7 – 43:45.9] It’s a free publication, set of five pamphlets, talks about paper, textile, photographic, um, a- and basic [43:45.9 – 43:46.8] archival things. [43:46.8 – 43:47.8] If you get a… [43:47.8 – 43:58.3] If you call, go, uh, uh, uh, 1-800-GAYLORD, or, um, I think it’s, uh, uh, www.gaylord.com, [43:58.3 – 44:00.5] and ask them for their, their… [44:00.5 – 44:03.5] They’ll send you a free catalog, and I know you can get… [44:03.5 – 44:08.4] You can ask for this Pathfinder Series, and it’s free, and they’ll mail it right to you. [44:08.4 – 44:13.0] I- I’ve got one in, in my archives, and I refer to it often, and it’s got a, it… [44:13.0 – 44:19.2] They’re nice little pamphlets, and they tell you a lot of things, and there’s extended reading in every one of those pamphlets. [44:19.2 – 44:23.3] I know that they’ll let you know some of the best books that are out there. [44:23.3 – 44:24.2] Okay? [44:24.2 – 44:27.3] I have the Kodak, uh, preserving photos. [44:27.3 – 44:27.8] I do, too. [44:27.8 – 44:29.0] Very good book. [44:29.0 – 44:30.9] Is that- That’s the best in its field. [44:30.9 – 44:33.0] Conservation of Photographs, yes. [44:33.0 – 44:35.0] It’s the best, best in its field. [44:35.0 – 44:39.4] Bob, Bob, what setting do you want this iron on? [44:39.4 – 44:42.2] Okay. [44:42.2 – 44:43.9] What, what setting do you want the iron on? [44:43.9 – 44:48.5] Do we have any burning, burning, burning question? [44:48.5 – 44:50.0] Because we’ve got to move on. [44:50.0 – 44:52.8] Any new question? [44:52.8 – 44:54.7] New p- different people have asked questions. [44:54.7 – 44:55.2] Is that okay there? [44:55.2 – 44:56.5] No. [44:56.5 – 44:58.4] What made the iron sad? [44:58.4 – 44:59.9] Uh, GE. [44:59.9 – 45:00.2] No. [45:00.2 – 45:01.9] They make them… [45:01.9 – 45:04.8] Seriously, if you do irons, make them absolutely smooth. [45:04.8 – 45:06.7] No, no, uh, no steam irons. [45:06.7 – 45:09.0] You can also, you can also buy what’s called a tacking iron. [45:09.0 – 45:10.5] A tacking iron will also work, too. [45:10.5 – 45:12.4] Here’s a cord right here. [45:12.4 – 45:13.2] I’ve got it plugged in. [45:13.2 – 45:20.0] What I’ve got- You’re putting wax paper and heat on there? [45:20.0 – 45:20.8] No. [45:20.8 – 45:21.4] Oh. [45:21.4 – 45:23.4] I hadn’t even done anything with it yet. [45:23.4 – 45:24.8] Hold on, Darcy. [45:24.8 – 45:25.7] Hold on, Darcy. [45:25.7 – 45:26.9] You’re way ahead of me. [45:26.9 – 45:29.7] I promise I’ll stop him before he does anything real bad. [45:29.7 – 45:35.5] So maybe it’s something new. [45:35.5 – 45:36.5] You made your Frogger. [45:36.5 – 45:37.3] I don’t know. [45:37.3 – 45:38.0] I don’t know. [45:38.0 – 45:39.3] That’s a good question. [45:39.3 – 45:45.3] What she mentioned was, is I clearly picked up a piece of wax paper, and I put it down, and I put a letter on it. [45:45.3 – 45:55.7] Uh, I have actually repaired books, and what I do is I put little pieces of wax paper in there, and after I get the repair [45:55.7 – 45:57.5] down, I will iron them dry. [45:57.5 – 46:01.8] And the reason I put the wax paper in there is so it won’t glue the pages together. [46:01.8 – 46:10.8] If you iron it with that piece of wax paper in there, you’ll get the prettiest, messiest, brownish stain you ever wanna see. [46:10.8 – 46:11.1] Uh-huh. [46:11.1 – 46:14.1] So do not put heat anywhere around that wax paper. [46:14.1 – 46:20.9] If you’re gonna do it, do it on something old, because you probably will do it the first time. [46:20.9 – 46:24.0] I seriously doubt you will do it the second time. [46:24.0 – 46:29.3] You know, just like the president said the other day, “Fool me once,” you know? [46:29.3 – 46:29.3] Okay. [46:29.3 – 46:30.0] “Shame on you. [46:30.0 – 46:33.3] Fool me twice, shame on me.” Anyway, that’s what it is. [46:33.3 – 46:36.8] He couldn’t remember that. [46:36.8 – 46:37.3] We’re going to… [46:37.3 – 46:38.3] Yeah, that’s right. [46:38.3 – 46:38.8] He did. [46:38.8 – 46:42.9] He, he got all confused and twisted around, and everything we need- Where’s your Japanese paper? [46:42.9 – 46:43.7] I got it right here. [46:43.7 – 46:48.0] Okay. [46:48.0 – 46:50.7] Do you wanna do tape first? [46:50.7 – 46:51.5] You wanna do tape- No … [46:51.5 – 46:51.9] tape repair? [46:51.9 – 46:52.3] No. [46:52.3 – 46:53.8] Got set up right here. [46:53.8 – 46:54.1] All right. [46:54.1 – 47:04.4] There is several types of paper [47:04.4 – 47:12.4] that can be used, and they’re all very, very valuable, but you only need about four: mulberry, kitakata, sekishu. [47:12.4 – 47:17.4] And the mulberry can be either bleached or unbleached. [47:17.4 – 47:21.8] Mulberry’s the most common- And then that way you got a pure white and a, and a-