Joe and Charlie — Big Book Comes Alive: History 4
Big Book Comes Alive Workshop · 1998 · Laughlin, Nevada · Part 04 of 34
Location applied across the sequential weekend package; opening source tag identifies Laughlin, NV; other embedded tags omit location.
Listen to Audio Recording
Transcript
[00:00:01.460 – 00:00:04.000] Most books that I read have been authored by one person. [00:00:04.000 – 00:00:14.060] And when I read a book authored by one person, if I see something in there, I don't agree with it, with my keen intellectual alcoholic mind, I usually say, "Who in the hell are they to think they're [00:00:14.060 – 00:00:16.700] smarter than I am?" And I just ignore it. [00:00:16.700 – 00:00:24.700] But I've got to realize with the big book, that if I'm gonna argue with it, I'm gonna be arguing with 100 people, not one. [00:00:24.700 – 00:00:28.240] The first 40 said, "Bill, we want you to write the book. [00:00:28.240 – 00:00:30.260] You know more about it than anybody else. [00:00:30.260 – 00:00:35.480] You've been sober longer than anybody else," which by the way, was just a little over three years at that time.
[00:00:35.480 – 00:00:39.560] But they said, "Bill, this is not to be your book, it's to be our book. [00:00:39.560 – 00:00:43.020] And as you write those chapters, we want to see them. [00:00:43.020 – 00:00:48.280] And we will add to, delete from, and change around whatever we want to. [00:00:48.280 – 00:00:57.620] When we're through with it, it'll be the collective knowledge, experience, and wisdom of all 40 of us." Over the time the book was published, that 40 had changed to, to 100. [00:00:57.620 – 00:01:05.679] So if I'm gonna argue with it today, I'm gonna be arguing with 100 men and women, not just one person. [00:01:05.679 – 00:01:15.679] And it's gonna be 100 men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body, which [00:01:15.680 – 00:01:17.100] brings in the word recovered.
[00:01:17.100 – 00:01:19.920] I hear people argue about this all over the world. [00:01:19.920 – 00:01:22.780] Can you recover from alcoholism? [00:01:22.780 – 00:01:24.760] Well, the book says you can. [00:01:24.760 – 00:01:31.600] It said the first 100 had recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. [00:01:31.600 – 00:01:34.960] Now, I'll never be cured of alcoholism. [00:01:34.960 – 00:01:38.480] I will always have the physical allergy. [00:01:38.480 – 00:01:42.080] I'll never be able to safely drink alcohol again.
[00:01:42.080 – 00:01:51.040] But before I came to AA, not only could I not drink it safely, but I couldn't keep from drinking it. [00:01:51.040 – 00:01:57.260] And the result, in fact, was I lived in an absolutely hopeless state of mind and body. [00:01:57.260 – 00:02:07.340] And I came to AA, and I applied the program of action in this book, and I no longer live in that hopeless state of [00:02:07.340 – 00:02:08.100] mind and body. [00:02:08.100 – 00:02:12.500] I still can't drink, but by golly, I can stay sober. [00:02:12.500 – 00:02:20.920] I'll never be cured of alcoholism, but I have recovered from a state of mind and body known as alcoholism. [00:02:20.920 – 00:02:27.020] And you're gonna see the word recovered and recovering all the way through the book several times.
[00:02:27.020 – 00:02:28.480] I think that's important. [00:02:28.480 – 00:02:34.359] The other thing that is so important is to show other alcoholics precisely how we have done that. [00:02:34.359 – 00:02:44.460] You know, if I, uh, if I went to an AA potluck meeting, and let's say you, you've made a strawberry cake, which happens [00:02:44.460 – 00:02:46.020] to be my favorite kind of cake. [00:02:46.020 – 00:02:47.310] Just in case you're gonna make it. [00:02:47.310 – 00:02:49.320] If you ever make me one, that's the kind I like. [00:02:49.320 – 00:02:53.410] And I bite into that cake, and God, it's just perfect.
[00:02:53.410 – 00:02:54.680] The texture's right. [00:02:54.680 – 00:02:55.720] The taste is right. [00:02:55.720 – 00:02:57.760] Everything is just right about it. [00:02:57.760 – 00:03:07.940] And I say, "Who made this cake?" Well, you'll probably say, "I did." And I'll say, "Would you tell me how?" And you say, "Yeah, I'll be glad to." And you'll sit down and write out for me a precise, [00:03:07.940 – 00:03:11.680] specific, clear-cut set of directions on how to make that cake. [00:03:11.680 – 00:03:20.380] You'll tell me the ingredients to put in it, the quantity of the ingredients, the sequence in which to, to mix them together, the temperature at which to bake it, and how long to bake it. [00:03:20.380 – 00:03:30.480] Now, if I take your instructions in my kitchen, and I follow them precisely as you've laid them out, when that thing comes out of the oven and cools off and I bite into it, I
[00:03:30.480 – 00:03:33.820] think I can expect it to taste exactly like your cake tasted. [00:03:33.820 – 00:03:44.000] But if I get your directions in my kitchen, and my keen intellectual alcoholic mind starts working, it may say, "Well, now, I'm not sure about six eggs." [00:03:44.000 – 00:03:47.340] "Maybe we ought to just put four in there. [00:03:47.340 – 00:03:57.670] Instead of two cups of sugar, I believe it'll be better with three." "Instead of baking it at 375, surely four and a quarter would be better." "Instead [00:03:57.670 – 00:04:05.660] of baking it for 18 minutes, I need to bake it for 25." Now, when it comes out of the oven and I bite into it, you betcha, I'm gonna be biting into a piece of cake. [00:04:05.660 – 00:04:12.140] But I wonder how closely it would resemble your cake, which was my reason for making it in the first place. [00:04:12.140 – 00:04:19.180] A precise, specific, clear-cut set of directions on how to recover from alcoholism.
[00:04:19.180 – 00:04:28.380] We've been around AA long enough to know and fully understand you can't make anybody do anything that they don't want to in AA. [00:04:28.380 – 00:04:33.580] The only requirement for membership in Alcoholics Anonymous is a desire to stop drinking. [00:04:33.580 – 00:04:37.680] You can stand up in an AA meeting and say, "I don't like you people at all. [00:04:37.680 – 00:04:40.620] Can hardly drink your lousy old coffee. [00:04:40.620 – 00:04:43.500] And every time I read your 12 steps, I vomit. [00:04:43.500 – 00:04:53.560] But I'm gonna be a member of AA because I got a desire to stay sober, and nobody can say a word about that." But that's dealing with membership and the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. [00:04:53.560 – 00:05:02.000] If you want to recover from alcoholism, there are some things you're probably gonna have to do, and that's what this book deals with.
[00:05:02.000 – 00:05:04.820] It doesn't deal with membership in a fellowship. [00:05:04.820 – 00:05:08.160] It deals with recovery from alcoholism. [00:05:08.160 – 00:05:18.400] And if we will do as these first 100 did, then surely we can expect to receive what they got: recovery from a hopeless condition of mind and body [00:05:18.400 – 00:05:20.400] known as alcoholism. [00:05:20.400 – 00:05:26.640] And our book says, "For them, we hope these pages will prove so convincing that no further authentication be necessary. [00:05:26.640 – 00:05:31.460] We think this account of our experiences will help everyone better understand the alcoholic. [00:05:31.460 – 00:05:35.380] Many do not comprehend that the alcoholic is a very sick person.
[00:05:35.380 – 00:05:45.260] And besides, we're sure our way of living has its advantages for all." And that statement, "Many c- do not comprehend that the alcoholic is a very sick person," very important to me. [00:05:45.260 – 00:05:52.320] 'Cause when I come to Alcoholics Anonymous, I used to stand in the back of the rooms, and I looked down at my feet, and I was ashamed. [00:05:52.320 – 00:05:54.900] And I had become everything I detested in a human being. [00:05:54.900 – 00:05:59.500] Certainly, thinking that I had an illness of alcoholism was not one of my thoughts. [00:05:59.500 – 00:06:09.860] My thought was something like this: "I feel like a no-good, rotten SOB, and I'm guilty of everything in the world, so I must be a no-good, rotten SOB." And I thought that was what alcoholism [00:06:09.860 – 00:06:10.240] was. [00:06:10.240 – 00:06:12.000] Turns out that it wasn't.
[00:06:12.000 – 00:06:15.420] You know, I've been married and divorced to two women seven times. [00:06:15.420 – 00:06:21.090] Would you repeat that? [00:06:21.090 – 00:06:21.450] Yeah. [00:06:21.450 – 00:06:24.350] Two of them seven times. [00:06:24.350 – 00:06:29.530] Phyllis only admits to, to two of them, but I divorced her once, and it wasn't even my turn. [00:06:29.530 – 00:06:32.270] So she was three. [00:06:32.270 – 00:06:34.530] The first one was four, and this, the second was three.
[00:06:34.530 – 00:06:37.770] I'm not sure that's a record, but I'll bet it's getting pretty close to it. [00:06:37.770 – 00:06:37.800] Yeah. [00:06:37.800 – 00:06:38.450] What do you think? [00:06:38.450 – 00:06:40.210] I've heard some people beat that one. [00:06:40.210 – 00:06:45.350] But my first wife, she was a great old gal, and I, I used to drink and go places. [00:06:45.350 – 00:06:47.090] I was one of those traveling drunks, you know? [00:06:47.090 – 00:06:49.390] And I didn't come back right away either.
[00:06:49.390 – 00:06:59.770] They used to have a statement around my group that calls, they said they, that, "He who leaves and does not return stays gone a long time." And [00:06:59.770 – 00:07:00.330] that was me. [00:07:00.330 – 00:07:05.630] And from time to time, I'd get drunk and go places, and then I'd come home as if I'd never been away. [00:07:05.630 – 00:07:10.290] And when I got home, I looked out in my yard, and all my stuff's laying out in the yard. [00:07:10.290 – 00:07:12.190] Y'all know what I mean by stuff, don't you? [00:07:12.190 – 00:07:12.920] Yeah. [00:07:12.920 – 00:07:17.030] Dirty under shorts, dirty shirts, unironed clothes.
[00:07:17.030 – 00:07:18.930] You know, they never throw away anything that's clean and ironed. [00:07:18.930 – 00:07:19.890] I don't know why that is. [00:07:19.890 – 00:07:24.589] They'd file for divorce on me and put a restraining order, make off with the money. [00:07:24.589 – 00:07:26.090] Make me madder than hell. [00:07:26.090 – 00:07:36.130] And I'd say, "After all I'd done to them, I mean, after all I'd done for them, them treat me like that." So I, I, one time I was gone a while, and [00:07:36.130 – 00:07:38.610] I decided I was trying to get back home, you know, and I was serious. [00:07:38.610 – 00:07:44.190] So I went to the preacher that my wife, first wife was going to at that time and had a little conversation with him.
[00:07:44.190 – 00:07:47.430] And he said, "Joe, what seems to be your problem?" He asked me. [00:07:47.430 – 00:07:49.880] And I didn't know what the problem was. [00:07:49.880 – 00:07:52.170] If I knew, well, I told the man, because I was serious. [00:07:52.170 – 00:07:56.090] And, uh, I said, "Well, I tell you what I think the problem is, and it's her. [00:07:56.090 – 00:07:58.870] If you lived with her, you'd drink too," I said. [00:07:58.870 – 00:08:08.870] Well, he gave me a prescription, a solution, and he said, "You must," and boy, did he emphasize that word, "You must have faith in these things," [00:08:08.870 – 00:08:09.970] and he laid them out for me.
[00:08:09.970 – 00:08:12.850] Well, I couldn't have any faith in those things. [00:08:12.850 – 00:08:13.430] You know why? [00:08:13.430 – 00:08:15.270] Because I didn't even believe them. [00:08:15.270 – 00:08:18.250] How can you have faith in something that you don't even believe? [00:08:18.250 – 00:08:23.290] Thank God for the second step so I could come to believe, but that was to happen sometime later. [00:08:23.290 – 00:08:26.530] So later on, I met and married my other wife. [00:08:26.530 – 00:08:27.670] We met in a bar.
[00:08:27.670 – 00:08:30.310] The Zebra Lounge. [00:08:30.310 – 00:08:33.330] I can almost smell it now. [00:08:33.330 – 00:08:43.630] And we were introduced, and she looked at me and said, "You know, Joe, you look like my third husband." I said, "My God, how many have you had?" And she said, "Two." [00:08:46.330 – 00:08:46.650] Yeah. [00:08:46.650 – 00:08:50.070] Well, I liked her right away. [00:08:50.070 – 00:08:56.200] And we started drinking and having fun, doing all those things, and then- … [00:08:56.200 – 00:09:00.010] uh, wasn't long after we got married till she started throwing my stuff out in the yard.
[00:09:00.010 – 00:09:02.640] Filing for divorce on me, a restraining order. [00:09:02.640 – 00:09:08.950] Well, this time I went to a psychiatrist and sat down and talked to him, paid him $75 an hour, and he said, "Mr. [00:09:08.950 – 00:09:12.310] McCoy," for $75 an hour they'll call you mister. [00:09:12.310 – 00:09:14.130] Said, "Mr. [00:09:14.130 – 00:09:18.170] McCoy, what seems to be your problem?" Well, I didn't know what the problem was. [00:09:18.170 – 00:09:20.430] I didn't, so I told him what I thought it was. [00:09:20.430 – 00:09:21.530] It was her and her.
[00:09:21.530 – 00:09:24.230] "If you lived with those two, you'd drink too," I said. [00:09:24.230 – 00:09:26.510] Well, he gave me a prescription. [00:09:26.510 – 00:09:29.050] He thought I had a Valium deficiency. [00:09:29.050 – 00:09:36.070] He didn't mention not drinking, so I took the Valium and continued to drink, and I got into real trouble now. [00:09:36.070 – 00:09:37.330] I mean, really trouble. [00:09:37.330 – 00:09:41.010] I got to where I didn't know the difference between my job and the bar. [00:09:41.010 – 00:09:46.230] I didn't know the difference between my wife and your wife and my wife and my girlfriend.
[00:09:46.230 – 00:09:48.010] I got everything all mixed up. [00:09:48.010 – 00:09:49.510] Got into a lot of trouble. [00:09:49.510 – 00:09:55.310] So by the time I come to the doors of Alcoholics Anonymous, I had become everything I detested in a human being. [00:09:55.310 – 00:09:59.390] I did not like who I had become, and I was very, very sick. [00:09:59.390 – 00:10:05.459] It wasn't until after I got into listening to and the description of Dr. [00:10:05.459 – 00:10:13.290] Silkworth's opinion on alcoholism that I began to understand what I had here, and it wasn't that I was a no good, rotten SOB. [00:10:13.290 – 00:10:15.590] I had an illness called alcoholism.
[00:10:15.590 – 00:10:16.060] That's right. [00:10:16.060 – 00:10:23.440] A physical allergy coupled with obsession of the mind, and somehow or other, that information helped me overcome some of these ideas that I had. [00:10:23.440 – 00:10:33.550] And as I look back now, and I know more about this, you know, the very first 16 printings of this book, Alcoholics Anonymous, the doctor's opinion was on page [00:10:33.550 – 00:10:33.830] one. [00:10:33.830 – 00:10:42.570] 1959, five in the second edition, they moved the doctor's opinion out of the page one and put it in the Roman numeral sections. [00:10:42.570 – 00:10:45.990] And you all know we don't read Roman numeral sections, do we? [00:10:45.990 – 00:10:46.819] No.
[00:10:46.819 – 00:10:47.370] Who does? [00:10:47.370 – 00:10:55.410] And I think that most of us in Alcoholics Anonymous got away from the idea of the doctor's opinion and just looked at Bill's story, page one. [00:10:55.410 – 00:11:05.810] But the information in the doctor's opinion is so important to me and to the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous because the rest of the book is gonna tell us how to recover [00:11:05.810 – 00:11:08.500] from the condition of the body and the mind that Dr. [00:11:08.500 – 00:11:10.070] Silkworth described. [00:11:10.070 – 00:11:15.370] And I said I was alcoholic for about two years, and I didn't even know what an alcoholic was, really. [00:11:15.370 – 00:11:18.730] So let's look at the doctor's opinion in that light.
[00:11:18.730 – 00:11:28.770] We start looking at what the problem actually is, and most of us are absolutely amazed to find [00:11:28.770 – 00:11:30.030] out what the problem is. [00:11:30.030 – 00:11:40.070] Because most of us felt before we came here that it was a matter of willpower, that after all, we had enough willpower that we [00:11:40.070 – 00:11:41.810] ought to be able to control our drinking. [00:11:41.810 – 00:11:47.070] And we found out that willpower didn't work, then we assumed that we were just crazy. [00:11:47.070 – 00:11:50.710] Or maybe we thought it was moral character. [00:11:50.710 – 00:11:54.870] Or maybe we thought we were just sinful, rotten people.
[00:11:54.870 – 00:11:57.610] Now, why wouldn't we think that? [00:11:57.610 – 00:11:59.830] That's what everybody had told us up till this point. [00:11:59.830 – 00:12:09.850] Throughout the history of humankind, they've been trying to find out for thousands of years what alcoholism [00:12:09.850 – 00:12:10.130] is. [00:12:10.130 – 00:12:16.490] You know, you really can't do anything about a problem till you understand the problem. [00:12:16.490 – 00:12:25.134] And most of the people that tried to determine what alcoholism is Were non-alcoholics to start with. [00:12:25.134 – 00:12:28.434] They were the ones that said it was a lack of willpower.
[00:12:28.434 – 00:12:36.214] They said, "If you'll just use your willpower like we do, you wouldn't drink that way." They're the ones that said it was moral character. [00:12:36.214 – 00:12:37.814] They're the ones that said it was sin. [00:12:37.814 – 00:12:40.914] We alcoholics didn't say those things. [00:12:40.914 – 00:12:42.314] Hell, we just kept on drinking. [00:12:42.314 – 00:12:44.654] Let them worry about what it is. [00:12:44.654 – 00:12:49.394] Alcoholism is not anything new. [00:12:49.394 – 00:12:55.814] You'll find references to alcoholism as far back as human history is recorded.
[00:12:55.814 – 00:13:00.774] And one of the oldest recordings of human history is to be found in the Bible. [00:13:00.774 – 00:13:08.074] And in the Book of Proverbs in the Bible, there's some information there about alcoholism. [00:13:08.074 – 00:13:12.154] You know, the Book of Proverbs was written by a fellow named Solomon. [00:13:12.154 – 00:13:18.194] And you all remember Solomon, he was a very, very wise, very learned individual. [00:13:18.194 – 00:13:20.614] He might have been the first social worker the world's ever seen. [00:13:20.614 – 00:13:24.674] Yeah, about every people had a problem, they went to Solomon to get the answer for it. [00:13:24.674 – 00:13:31.754] And apparently somebody asked him one time about alcoholism, 'cause he describes this in Proverbs.
[00:13:31.754 – 00:13:34.174] He said, "Who has woe? [00:13:34.174 – 00:13:35.134] Who has sorrow? [00:13:35.134 – 00:13:36.834] Who has wounds without cause? [00:13:36.834 – 00:13:38.894] Who has redness of eyes? [00:13:38.894 – 00:13:44.734] They that tarry long at the wine." Everybody was a wino in those days. [00:13:44.734 – 00:13:47.134] They didn't have the hard stuff like we got it today. [00:13:47.134 – 00:13:57.254] He said, "You will be as one who sleepeth in the midst of the sea." You remember how you used to lay down in bed and that old bed start moving around
[00:13:57.254 – 00:13:57.654] on you? [00:13:57.654 – 00:14:04.594] "Or that sleepeth at the top of a tall mast." You know how a mast sways back and forth. [00:14:04.594 – 00:14:14.954] He said, "You will say they have beaten me, and I felt it not." And [00:14:14.954 – 00:14:16.794] he surely knew some of us men. [00:14:16.794 – 00:14:25.793] He said, "And thine eyes shall behold strange women." Alcoholics really haven't changed very much, have they? [00:14:25.793 – 00:14:32.494] "And thine heart shall utter perverse things." Like, "Trust me, honey. [00:14:32.494 – 00:14:42.934] Please trust me." He
[00:14:42.934 – 00:14:53.174] said, "And yet they will arise in the morning and seek it yet again." Almost a perfect description of alcoholism as we know it today. [00:14:53.174 – 00:14:57.974] But he didn't have an answer for it, 'cause he didn't know what caused it.
