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Source: Various S – We Treat Sex Like Any Other Problem – RS 17671 – 1990-07-04.mp3 File: various-s-we-treat-sex-like-any-other-problem-rs-17671-1990-07-04.mp3 Duration: 01:13:53
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Can you hear me now? In the back! I would like to call this marathon meeting to order and welcome you all to the 1990 International Convention of Alcoholics Anonymous. My name is Jack B. and I am an alcoholic. Hello everybody. And the preamble at this time goes as such. Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.
There are no dues or fees for AA membership. We are self-supporting through our own contributions. AA is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution, does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses or opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety. I would like to advise all people here that this marathon meeting is being sound taped, not videotaped, but sound taped in its entirety. So everybody that participates here will be on record.
At this time I am going to have Mary come up and read how it works from the fifth chapter of the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous. I've got to get my script here. Okay. Thank you. My name is Mary. I'm an alcoholic. Hi everybody. This is how it works from Chapter 5 of the Big Book. Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program. Usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault. They seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those too who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest. Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it, then you are ready to take certain steps. At some of these we balked. We thought we could find an easier, softer way, but we could not. With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely. Remember that we deal with alcohol, cunning, baffling, powerful. Without help it is too much for us, but there is one who has all power. That one is God. May you find him now. Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked his protection and care with complete abandon. Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery. One, we admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable. Two, came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. Three, made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him. Four, made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. Five, admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. Six, were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. Seven, humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings. Eight, made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all. Nine, made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. Ten, continued to take a personal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it. Eleven, sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood him, praying only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out. Twelve, having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs. Many of us exclaimed, what an order, I can't go through with it. Do not be discouraged.
No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection. Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas. A, that
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we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives. B, that probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism. C, that God could and would if he were sought. Thank you. Apes? Thank you Mary. I knew I'd blow it. You didn't do anything wrong. Also I need to read this for, because of the magnitude of the people here, and this has to do with AA's anonymity statement. There may be some here who are not familiar with our tradition of personal anonymity at the public level with states, our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion.
We need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, TV, and films. Thus, we respectfully ask no AA speaker or indeed any AA member be identified by full name in published or broadcast reports of our meetings. The assurance of anonymity is essential in our effort to help other problem drinkers who may wish to share our recovery program with us. And our tradition of anonymity reminds us that AA principles become, come before personalities. Like I said before, my name is Jack, I almost said it, my name is Jack B, and I find it a privilege to stand here for my very first international, I've been sober quite a few years, and this is the first international I've ever attended.
And as I walk the streets of Seattle out here, it really does my heart warm. This program has done tremendous things for me. I was at the point of being dead, you know, there was no way I could drink another day without dying, and I come here not believing that Alcoholics Anonymous had one thing to offer me, that I was too sick and I didn't deserve what you people had, and that was 21 years ago, so you know, there's something definitely worth here.
Even if you don't believe it, there is a God that loves every single one of us on an individual level, and we all deserve to have the very best of anybody you know out there. And if you are willing to do what they tell you in Alcoholics Anonymous, you can have the very best that's out there. Every single one of us, you know, and God made no junk, we all have the same opportunity, it takes hard work, it takes a daily effort, and you know, you have to be willing, and you have to be willing to adopt the new attitudes and new ideas on a daily basis, year after year after year. This is not something you get iron pat in one year or two, and then coast for the next 30. Believe me. In 20 years, any human being goes through a lot of changes, a lot of good and a lot of bad. And what this program gave me was a God and a power to handle any person or any situation, no matter what, and hold my head up high, and come out swinging, and learn and grow stronger as a result.
I hear a few chuckles when they say the subject was we treat other, or we treat sex like any other problem in Alcoholics Anonymous. And it reminds me of, if you think there's denial about our alcohol and our drugs, try suggesting to an alcoholic that there just might be something amiss in the way they handle an intimate relationship. You know? I don't know about you, but I don't see everybody coming in here and falling in love and living happily ever after. If you do, I don't know what planet you're from. I also want to say that there are an abundance of psychologists and clinical psychologists that deal specifically with altering the addictive personalities, attitudes, and approach to relationships.
And thank God, because left to our own devices, we self-destruct in every area of our life, including this. You know, we all know how to go through the physical activity, but you know, there's so much more to it. If you're really going to appreciate it, and you're really going to get something out of life, and you're really going to enjoy all that God meant you to enjoy with the act of sex. And that's why we are here, maybe to learn something about today for all of us. Our first guest has come all the way from Mexico to share with us. He's got about a 15-minute segment here. And, Ornado, would you please come up and share with us, please?
Good evening. My name is Arnoldo, and I'm an alcoholic. I never realized that it was so emotional, so profound and deep to be here trying to share with you some words, a few words related with my own story, with my own background. But this morning, I'm going to hear some friends from France, Italy, and other countries saying that they were very
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nervous to speak English. Let me tell you, I'm not nervous. I'm scared to death. And it's because I have to speak about myself, and I have to say everything, and I'm entitled to speak for everyone else but myself. And that's not an easy thing, especially in not my language. A few years ago, I mean, many years ago, I saw a picture with Jack Lemmon. Probably every one of you saw it, Days of Wine and Roses in Mexico. And at that time I was about 31 or 22 years old. I didn't conclude, and I came out from the cinema because I didn't like the picture. I didn't like to see how a person who is supposed to be happy drinking, going out with girls, trying to make some kind of arrangements, break into a dramatic situation, starting to drink alcohol. Twenty years after I saw that picture, I was arrived to my program, to AA. Then I remembered the picture, and someone asked me to see it again. And I was very impressed when he said that he was an alcoholic. That's the same thing I feel right now, saying that I'm an alcoholic in a different language than mine.
Three things I remember. Three things I asked my sponsor as soon as I finished my first meeting when I arrived to my program. The first was, please tell these guys that it's okay. I know that Alcoholic Anonymous is for me. This is the place I was looking for. But tell him that I will never say my name because this is something private. I don't want anyone to know who I am and even my name. He said, okay, Arnaldo, no problem. You don't have to say your name, even your last name. You don't have to say who you are, where you come, what you have to do to be here. Second thing, tell him that I will never speak in front of them. Thank you. Because my life is very private. That belongs to me only. The third is, it's okay. That's a very good program. But I think with about 10 or 12 meetings, I will never drink again. And he said, okay, Arnaldo. It's okay. I will never drink again.
He said, okay, no problem. That happened 13, 14 years ago. Speak about sex and how we treat that problem like any other in AA. It's part of my life because it's part of my past. Many things I have to live, suffering, see how I was destroying my life many, many years ago. I lost the opportunity to make a genuine friendship in the school, in the high school. I lost the opportunity to be different. I lost many things because I never understand that sex is one of my instincts. Only when I get to my program, I found that if I want to really change, if I really believe in a higher power, things have to be changed.
And one of them is how I treat other people. One of them is how I treat my friends, how I treat the girls, how I treat the opposite sex.
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When I started working in that problem, many things occurred to me. I thought it was impossible to change the product of many years living in some way the Mexican style, where the macho word has to be erased from the vocabulary, because we in Mexico like the change, and you don't have to be an AA to really decide that change. Nobody likes the macho anyway. And in my program I learned I have to be sincere with me, with myself, in order to be sincere with the rest of the people.
That's why I get to the conclusion that that problem has to be one of the first I have to work with. And as my fourth step established, this is a work for the rest of my life, and that's the way I want to keep that work. Because it's the only way I find to grow up, that's the way I find to feel that I'm really looking up to my higher power. It's not easy to do so, but it has to be done. I can count with my program, with all the steps and traditions, I can count with all the literature I have, or we have.
I'm not alone in my purpose. I'm not alone in all this work and all I have to do. I can count with my friends in the partnerships. I can count even with my family who understands that my problem is mental. Most of my sickness is mental. But they know pretty well that if I have my mind and my spirit in recovery, the mental and physical will come in addition. I remain that way because I am learning to live the AA style of life. It's a new style.
One of the most important things I learned, I have deep inside my heart, is the opportunity to make a good relation with my high power. I stopped saying, look at me God, how I suffer. Look at me God, how sick I am. Look at me, please, how bad I feel. Because nothing of that happens to me since I get to the program, since I arrive to the program. That's the style I live now. And I keep that way. I want to keep that way.
For my own good, for the good of my parents, my wife, children, for everyone I'm related with. And thanks to God who is very important in my life, almost the most important part of my life. And I learned to love through your words, through your examples, through the way you live. You show me that. I will never disappoint anyone. I will never disappoint myself because I love AA. I love my high power. I love all of you. God bless you.
For a man who was very scared, he did a tremendous job. In essence, he has shared also that by humbling himself to a power greater than himself, by being able to have the courage to look at himself and change what he didn't like, he has managed to put together 14 years and 20 years and 30 and 50 years. You know, it's what we must do. And he seems to have done a terrific job of it. And he is the power of example for the new people to look at and admire and be like.
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We have some volunteers here that have offered to come up and share with us. And the first one I'd like to call up is Bob R. Is he still here? My name is Bob and I'm an alcoholic. Evidently, God's got a sense of humor. I signed up to speak not knowing what the topic was. And I'm not Dr. Ruth's assistant or anything like that. I'm not an expert on sex. I can only share my experience, strength and hope. I'm in recovery.
And it's been an important part of my recovery is relationships with myself and with God and with other people. And that has included significant other females in my life. I heard it once said that, and it's kind of how I grew up, even though I'm not a recovering Catholic, but I heard a recovering Catholic speak one time and say that sex was dirty and disgusting and you're supposed to save it for the one you love.
I was raised in a home. My mother's an AA now. My mother got sober in 85. My sister got sober in late 85. I got sober in 86. And my brother's an ACOA and my other sister's a starting ACOA. I guess my family belongs in two groups. Either you're an AA or you're belonging it. And I guess I never knew, you know. I didn't know what love was. Sex wasn't something you talked about. And there were a lot of family secrets.
My father had several affairs. There was stuff he just did not talk about in our family. Families were not talked about. There was conditional love in our family. A lot of high expectations. My father's an M.D. and my mother's. Everybody in my family has master's degrees and all that kind of stuff. And the stuff that really doesn't mean that much to me today. And yet my parents did the best they could. I love my family. I'm real close to them today.
And I know that they did the best they could. I know my father's father never told me he loved him until the day he died. So I know that my parents did the best they could. And I'm not up here to put them down at all. I guess for me, I've had to learn from my own pain. And it says in the big book that sexual relationships are not to be selfish. It's not to be loathed. It's not to be despised. I was just reading about this about a week or two ago and I guess there was a reason why.
And it's all coming together to me. I can see it a little bit clearer. I've been involved in four or five steady relationships in my sobriety and I've only been sober about four and a half months. No, no. Four and a half years. I'm sorry. Four and a half years. I got sober in April of 86. So I've been sober a while. I've been sober a while. Anyways, I learned from my pain. And I can laugh at myself today.
And I take myself too seriously. And there's a meeting that was here today called Rule Number 62. And it's not taking yourself too seriously. And that's part of why I can feel comfortable and not get all red in front of you when I just said I was sober four and a half months. But I have been in some long-term relationships a couple years with one woman. And another woman that I was involved with, this was a real painful experience to me.
And it was a year and a half ago and I never realized that it was… In early recovery, I was always talking about I'm in this sick relationship, you know. And I was talking about it morning and going. And I never realized that if two people are healthy, the relationship would be healthy. And there's no such thing as sick relationships. There's two sick people that make up a sick relationship. So I was always talking about being in this sick relationship and never realized if I'd get healthy and attracted to healthier people, it always goes back to me.
I'm always a problem. Applause So about a year and a half, two years ago, I was seeing this woman. And she had several more years than I did in recovery. And I thought that made a difference. Laughter And I live with my sponsor. And so he met her in the first five minutes. He said, watch out. And he wasn't putting her down. He went through counsel training and he just has the ability to see through people almost immediately.
And that's probably why I live with him. And so when I started seeing this person for four or five months, whatever, she got pregnant. And we were using birth control and she got pregnant. And I was ecstatic about it. And the day that I found out, she broke it off with me.
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And left town. So I was very powerless over the situation. And I knew I couldn't control it. And I can't push my morals or values on anyone else. So I had to sit back and wait. And I listened. And we talked on the phone. We would not talk in person. And it was something that needed to be dealt with and communicated. But yet we would not talk in person. And she called me up. Two or three weeks went by.
And we fought about it and different things like that. And called me up and said that she decided that she was going to have the child. And so I was ecstatic about it. And I went over and saw her. And talked to her in person. And we cried together and we talked about it. And I'm sure she was very scared and confused and hurt. And so she decided she was going to have the child. And I remember she had been so sick for four weeks from morning sickness that she lost her job.
Almost lost her other one and could not go to college at the same time she was doing those things. And so I, feeling wanting to be responsible for this child, agreed to pay half her rent. And that day. And then I also went and called my parents and told my parents that a child was on the way. And my mother was, my parents were both angry and happy at the same time. And I was right in the middle of the semester, college semester.
And what are you doing to your life? And you're screwing up again. And those kind of old tapes. But they're also happy for me. And my mother was going to come out in October when the child was born. And so I let her go and I was really ecstatic. And she called me back two days later and she went and had an abortion. And I was powerless over it. And it was very painful for me. And I knew that I could not, again, push my morals and values on her.
For morally, that was wrong for me at that time. And I love life and I love God. And I believe God loves life. And I believe God is a creator of life, not a destroyer of life. And it was very painful. And what I did was, unsolicitedly, I would go find newcomers. And sit down with them and try to carry the message to get out of myself. Because I had to get through the pain. Not only of the breakup, but of the loss of a child.
And my sponsor helped me to see that it was God's child and it wasn't mine. And I don't own anybody. And to this day, I realize I don't own anybody. I used to think that I owned people. I used to be very jealous and possessive and controlling and selfish. And everything. I was with someone for five years. And that's the way the whole thing was. And I used every day for 11 years. And we used pot and cocaine and free based and everything.
And by the grace of God, I've been sober since April 16th, 1986. At that time in my life, I had lost everything. And I had stopped breathing on cocaine. And went back to it the next day. So I am definitely powerless over drugs and alcohol. And my life is still unmanageable. But to get back to this. At that time, this woman was also in recovery at some of the same meetings. So I respected her reputation.
Did not want to talk about it. So I had a lot of one-on-ones with people that I trusted. With people that I could trust. And at the same time, tried to help other newcomers. And got through that pain. And I thought I dealt with it. And then the pain came back when the child was to be born. And it was painful. So when I'd go to college, I'd walk across the street. And there'd be these nurseries that walk along with wagons.
With a bunch of little children in them. And I'd walk across the street in front of cars. Just to get to the other side. So I could allow myself to grieve and feel the pain. And I remember doing that because I wanted to deal with this. And on Father's Day this year, my sponsor's fancy said, Happy Father's Day. And to me, and that sarcastically or not meant to be a sense of humor. Because I believe that everybody has a spirit.
And that that child has a spirit. And I love God and I love myself. And I love that child. No matter where it is, I love that child. So I have learned a lot through my relationships. And I'm grateful that I went through that. And I'm grateful that I've been through all the pain that I've ever been through in recovery. Because it's got me to where I'm at today. I need to listen to my pain. It's the only thing that tells me how to change.
And it's the only thing that tells me what step to practice. What I need to make amends or do step 11. Or do step 3 or step 7. A lot of step 7. I try to use that a lot. And to change my behavior. And I go to AA pretty much every day. And I have ever since I went through Hazleton. And I go to Al-Anon also. And I love Alcoholics Anonymous. I love all you people. It's my whole life. And to me, I can't just turn over.
I guess with sexuality, I can't just turn over part of my life to God and control the rest. I need to surrender unconditionally all of it. And I pray to God to have Him shape my morals and values every day. And to live the way He wants me to live. I pretty much had been single for the last year and a half. Because I realized after I went through that experience. That again, it was me that attracted the people I was with.
Again, it was me that attracted the people I was with, and if I wanted to attract healthier people, I had to continue to get healthier.
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And I recently started seeing someone again, and allowed whatever's supposed to have happened, happen. I'm not driving the bus anymore, and so I'm very grateful to be here and grateful to share. I, too, I like what that gentleman said about needing to talk, you know, just to get it out. I've been tired. I've been traveling a lot. We drove out here from Wisconsin. I went to one or two meetings in the last week besides yesterday.
And so I needed to get re-centered and to get back to what's important to me. And the only other analogy, I really heard a good thing about love one day. And, you know, I know today that love isn't sex and sex isn't love. And I heard a real good thing about love. And it says that love is, I heard this from another speaker, that love is a state of being. And it's either you are love or you're not love.
And it says that love is like a rose. It gives off its fragrance because it's got no choice to give off its fragrance. It doesn't say here comes Bob and shut down. And that's the kind of love I was raised with, was conditional love and controlling love. And today I get unconditional love in AA. And that's probably what allows me to talk freely about whatever is going on in me in AA because I know people accept me no matter where I am.
So I'm very grateful to be here. And this wasn't so bad. So I love you. Bye-bye. Thank you. Thank you, Bob. You know, it dawns on me that the God that I understand gave us our sexuality. And why should people think it's going to be such a bum trip to turn their sexuality over to God in His way? You know, the next lady I'd like to call up is Carol C. Is she here? Hi. Hi, everyone. I'm Carol C. And I'm from New York.
And I'm a recovering alcoholic. And I, too, like Bob, signed up without knowing what the topic of this meeting was. But there are no coincidences. I'm in the right place. Um… Treating sex as any other problem. I was a drunk who was in a dysfunctional marriage. This young man just mentioned this word, conditional. I was raised in a home with unconditional love by parents who may or may not have been alcoholic.
I don't know. I don't choose to make a judgment. And I entered a marriage at age 26 in which because I married someone who was as sick as I with a different addiction, we became two very sick people feeding off each other's illness for the better part of 10, 15 years. He was addicted to gambling and I was addicted to booze. And so the love, the sex, the caring, the warmth, the whole package deal went from something that was open and free to something that had conditions on it.
Trade-off sex. And I don't know if any of you in the room are familiar with that type of thing, but I know what it was like and I know the pain it caused me and I know how alone I felt though married. I came into this program about 14 years ago and I started to get sober. And about two years behind me, my husband entered GA and he stopped gambling. And I would like to be able to tell you that we were able to work on this problem of treating sex as something else and putting something that had fallen apart or broken apart back together.
But timing in my life was always, timing in our marriage was always terrible, I have to be honest. Anytime he was ready to go to a counselor and talk about our mutual problems, our joint problems, and of course the disease would have cropped up had we done that, I wasn't ready. And when I was ready, he wasn't. So it was a matter of bad timing and one program never caught up with the other. And in 1985, my husband died and I became a widow.
And suddenly I had my own sexuality to deal with, who I was and how I felt about myself as a female, as a woman. And because I have this program in my life, I like to think I have it in every fiber of my being. I talk about my head, my heart, my soul, my gut, there are four levels for me. I knew I could go out and act out on something that I had acted out on as a young woman. As a young woman who drank, because I drank from the very beginning.
But I chose to think about that and I chose to do some more step work that was important for me to do. So that I came to grips with who I am and how I want to conduct my life. And because I choose a day at a time to willingly stay sober, I can lust, I can look and imagine, and I can deal with my own sexual fantasies any way I want.
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But I choose to not act out on them in irrational or irresponsible ways. And I'm not always perfect at that, but I try. That's about all I can do. And I work with a couple of gals back home in New York as a sponsor, and that sponsor-sponsee relationship is one that has been very important to me in my sobriety and has given me much more than I have ever thought would come my way, just by way of close one-on-one work with another recovering female.
And this is something that has to be as out there, as open, as dealing with honesty, as dealing with where we came from, as dealing with job problems or whatever. It is a human reaction. It is a human necessity. And if we treat it with a higher power, for me a power greater than myself, whom I do choose to call God, if we do a little meditating about how we are acting, most of us can act in a fairly responsible manner.
And that's what I try and work on with the gals that I sponsor. I was in this room yesterday afternoon when they were reading the promises before each meeting. And so before I leave, I just want to say to you that when I came into this fellowship, I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. I was afraid. I was despairing. I wanted to die. I was able from the very beginning to really listen and to really hear.
I wasn't able to talk. I couldn't do anything like this for about a year, two years sober. All I could say was, my name is Carol. I'm an alcoholic. I passed. That was it. Once I started, you couldn't shut me up, which you're finding out about now. I listened. I don't know at what point I heard the promises for the first time, but when I did, I cried. And every time I hear them read, I cry again. And that's because Carol the drunk spent 20 years baffled.
Baffled and drunk. Fearful. Economic insecurity. The whole package. And each and every one of those promises have come true for me simply because I just kept coming back. I hadn't been invited back anywhere for a lot of years until I came to these rooms. And people just kept saying, let us love you until you learn to love yourself. And I needed to hear that. And so I kept coming back, and I have a degree of serenity and peace in my life that I never thought was possible.
The only thing I can't do is drink. And that leaves me a lot of things that I can do joyously, happily, and free. Thank you. Thank you. You know, I heard something that's so very, very true. And that's if you have not taken the time to get in touch with your own personal sexuality, you have nothing normal and healthy to offer to someone else. Would Mike S. like to come up and share, please? I need a hug before I start even.
Give me a hug. I'm Mike. I'm an alcoholic addict. I got it now. Wow. There's a bunch of us out there. The subject of the previous meeting is walking through fear. And I've spoken in front of a few big crowds that this is the biggest. But when I looked into individual faces out there and said in the whole crowd, I see people that are just like me. And I never thought there were people just like me. I grew up in an alcoholic family.
The only thing I learned how to do with feelings when I was growing up is stuff them. Positive strokes, hugs, I never got them. Parents tell me they were proud of me. It never happened. I realized that it's because they didn't know how. And because my dad's disease, alcoholism, didn't let him. I was career in the Navy. Just retired. You might notice by the hair. A little bit longer than I'm used to.
But, you know, I didn't drink or drug until I was 19. I didn't want to be like dad. But I found out when I started drinking and drugging that it made stuffing those feelings a lot easier. Other people knew I had a booze and drug problem. In fact, even I knew it. I'd go through programs to make the Navy happy. I'd go through programs to make girlfriends happy.
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And I'd go through programs to make my family happy. But always I knew when I hurt, the booze would take away that pain. Up until it quit working. And I damn near killed a man in a bar one night because the booze wasn't taking away the pain and anger anymore. And I asked for help for the first time in my life for me. I went through Navy Treatment Center in Jacksonville, Florida. And the main thing treatment did is force-fed me AA.
I thought, yeah, I am an alcoholic and I don't want to drink. But I got so many other problems, AA ain't going to work for me. Until I went to the first meeting I ever went to on my own. A girl got up in front of 50 people. And talking about what it's like living life behind walls. Not being able to say what she felt. And after a while, because of the booze and drugs, not being able to feel anything besides pain and anger.
And that was me. And listening to her not only talk about feelings but show them gave me hope for the first time in my life. I started going to meetings and listening for the similarities. I started going to meetings and listening for the similarities and not the differences. And I got some of the bricks out of my wall. I'm not going to tell you all of them. I found out somewhere along the line that I'm a powerful speaker.
And I don't know how that happened. But I thought I had to use that to tell you what you needed to hear. Which wasn't always what I felt. One of the groups I went to in San Diego. There were about two or three hundred people and I'd walk up towards the podium and people would say, this guy is good. And I'd get up here and I'd tell you how Graydon's going. My gut was coming apart on the inside. Because I figured if you knew I could hurt you, you wouldn't like me.
I worked through the steps and I still really didn't know why I felt that way. But at three years sober, a girl got up in a meeting of a hundred people and talked about how she had been molested when she was a child and how that infected her life. And I went through the worst two weeks of my life because I'd had the same thing happen to me. But I could finally see where those feelings came from. And I did the steps four through seven on them and shared them with her.
And I thought, wow, I'm cured. To prove it, I immediately got married. I heard two sick people can't have a healthy relationship. Uh, yeah. When I got married, it was, I know I'm married, career Navy, wherever you go, I go. Up until we bought the house, then it became, I know I'm married, career Navy, wherever you go, I stay here and wait for you. And our marriage became the war of the roses. And between six and seven years sober, I kept telling myself I shouldn't feel this way.
I kept telling myself I shouldn't feel this way, but I still wouldn't tell you what I was feeling. And seven years sober, I drank as part of a suicide attempt. Somewhere along the line, I had started to think you only loved me for my time sober, not for who I am. But two days after my suicide attempt, I went back to my first meeting. There were people there that knew me and there were newcomers. And I shared what happened.
The people that knew me welcomed me back with love. And the newcomers thanked me for sharing. So maybe it wouldn't have to happen to them. I told them I needed their love and their hugs. And after the meeting, 40 people lined up to give me a hug. Thanks, I needed that. I thought my divorce had been final. Two or three months ago, I got a call two weeks ago from my wife and found out she is still my wife.
And I knew I had to make amends for my actions. But I figured I'd put that off until I was ready for it. Well, I've come to believe…
[00:45:20]
go with love is easy to say. And I'm going to find out just how easy it is to do it, but I know it's something I got to do for me. Uh, we had, had one meeting on board the ship in Australia, and this is off the subject, but I got to share it. Had one meeting on board the ship in Australia. I'd gone to a meeting out in town and asked if anyone wanted to come on board for American style AA. I'd done two other ports and no one we ever had was two or three people. 10 people showed up that night in a 10 by 10 room with three chairs. There were 10 of them and there were three of us. We sat on overturned garbage cans. We sat on barrels and I squatted on the floor. And then it's the most powerful meeting I'd ever gone to. The topic is firepower. And by the end of the night, you could fill them in the room. I never, I knew, even though I'd never seen any of those people again, that they were friends for life. Well, that meeting, there was one couple there that had just gotten married two hours before and gave up part of their wedding night to come on board for the meeting. That couple is in town for the convention and they came to a meeting with my home group today. And they remembered something I had shared six years ago at the meeting in Australia. I planted a tree when I was in high school. I couldn't believe in God because I'm a recovering Catholic.
I blamed him for everything that ever happened bad to me. But one thing did get me by. I planted a tree in high school. The first thing that happens, got ran over by a power lawnmower and cut off even the ground. It lived and it grew. After I joined the Navy, I'd seen what it'd made it through and come back from. I come home on one leave, I spend five minutes petting my dog and I spend an hour talking to my tree.
My dog got jealous, attacked the tree and broke it down, even the ground. Well, it lived and it grew. It made it through the windstorm that sunk the Hood Canal Bridge. It's made it through fires burning within five feet of it. It's made it through snow storms. It's made it through everything. When I finally found the idea of a God that loved me, through Way A, thanks to you, I could finally see where my tree got its strength. He gave me the tree to get me by until through you, I could find him. And today, I was able to take my friends from Australia and have them meet my tree.
Thank you. And I still need your love and hugs. I'd like to hear from Barbara P, please. I'm Barbara and I'm an alcoholic. I'm really nervous. I don't know what it was like. You know, it was weird in my family growing up. I remember the only thing I heard from my mom about sex was don't do it. And my mom and dad had twin beds and all and but I was wondering where the 10 brothers and sisters came from.
You know, and when I first heard, you know, what it was all about, it was from my older sister and she was about eight or 10 or something. And like, it was a real gruesome. And I thought, whoa, you know, well, why would anybody want to do it, you know, unless you wanted to have a kid. You know, and then I got to be about 21 and found out why. And, you know, and I really went heavy into it, just like the alcohol and until I found cocaine and it seemed to take the place of a lot of my addiction on that.
And, and lo and behold, this is all waiting to be worked out in sobriety. And I found out through a lot of abstinence that that isn't the answer.
[00:50:08]
And, you know, just a little trial and error here. I haven't been able to have a steady sexual relationship yet in sobriety after four and a half years, but that's okay. But what I, I just found out for me, it was probably about three weeks ago in a meeting, I found that I was attracted to this man who I never would have been attracted to. And, and it wasn't anything with what he looked like. And that was probably the first time that it ever happened to me.
And I was sitting there, he had several years of sobriety and he was sharing his experience and I known him for a long time. And I thought, God, I really, I really like who this guy is. And I was sexually attracted to him who, and it just floored me, you know, and I just thought that, you know, I guess I am growing in this area, but it's difficult and I don't want to share anymore. Thank you. David B. Is there a David B. here? Okay.
I'm Dave. I'm an alcoholic from the Missoula group of Alcoholics Anonymous in Missoula, Montana. And I'm scared. Well, I guess the first time that I looked at sex in the program was on page 69, where it deals with inventory, and it was suggested to me by my sponsor that I inventory myself in that area. And it says in there, we deal with it like any other problem, that we ask ourselves where we've been selfish, self-seeking, dishonest. And so I did that.
And what I found was that it was incredible because I could see a lot of my defects in action in the relationships I'd had and how I'd used sex. And I found that I used it to avoid intimacy. I had it confused with love and that I'd hurt myself and other people. And I didn't want to do that again. So it also says in there that we ask God to help us try to shape a sane and sound ideal. And I decided to do that, too, because, you know, I couldn't remove my compulsion to drink and anymore I could remove any other of my addictions by my will alone.
And I knew that. So I worked the steps on it, I guess. But one thing that was really helpful to me in terms of shaping my ideal was I found it in the 12 and 12, in step 12, and it talked about a basis for a relationship being emotional, spiritual, and mental, that we need that base in all relationships with people, in particular intimate relationships. So I applied that and decided that that would come first in my relationships or relationship or whatever.
And it also says that this just can't be wishful thinking, you know, that we're in trouble when it's boy meets girl on AA campus and whoopee, we're off to the races, you know. And I find that to be true, not only in my own experience, but watching the experience of others. So, to make a long story short, I met somebody, I fell in love, and I applied these principles, and I got married, and I'm happily married, and I have the best sex I've ever had in my life.
And it's a result of this program, and I'm really grateful for that.
[00:55:03]
And, you know, I talked a little bit about confusing sex with love, you know, and I did that, and I found a working definition for love that I use in a book, not AA approved, but essentially it just says the care and nurturing of one's own or another's spiritual growth. And so, in these meetings, in Alcoholics Anonymous, that's the way I see, you know, what we do for each other is we care and we nurture each other's spiritual growth.
And I think that's important to keep in mind, and that's what I try to do in my marriage. And so far it's worked. And I'm happy to be here, to be sober, and have the privilege of talking. Thank you. Thank you. I was just sitting here thinking, it's been a long time ago now, but I remember in sobriety, about six or seven years, I was very much in love with a woman. And I remember tears coming to my eyes when I realized that we shared sex, a God-given thing, and it wasn't a tool, it wasn't to manipulate, it wasn't a toy, it was something part of a beautiful and intimate relationship, and I had never known it could be that good.
And that's what we have to look forward to here. It's so overwhelming. It's not a toy, people, it really isn't. And it's not a fix. And it takes a long time. We have to, I think, in my own case, I had to bottom out. You know, just as I did with alcohol, I had to have a relationship that I said I will never endure this much pain again in my life. And I will do. And I will do whatever it takes to understand what has to be done to have the kind of relationship that I really wanted and that I thought God wanted me to have.
And when you have that attitude, when the student's ready, the teacher appears. How about Stacy? Hi, my name's Stacy, and I'm an alcoholic. This is really scary. I guess, you know, for me right now, I'm really surprised that I'm here today, and with a lot of the stuff I've been through in my life over the past five months, I'm really surprised that I'm sober. I've gone through things in the past few months that I didn't think I could go through.
Being an alcoholic, I don't do change well at all. And I started a new job, and the same week I started the new job, my boyfriend cheated on me and ended my relationship with him. And I got real physically ill and was sick for a long time. And just as I was coming out of that, I have two dogs, and they're kind of like my kids. And one of them had cancer, and I had to put her to sleep. And it's been, it's been hard.
But I'm sober today, you know, and that's what counts. The pain behind ending the relationship was really hard to go through. You know, for me, at 34 years old, it was really the first relationship that I had ever had where I was aware of anything. You know, people, you know, people have come up and talked about, like, not knowing the difference between love and sex. And I didn't know anything about love until I came into this program.
And when I, you know, before when I was out there drinking and using, you know, I was so lonely, I was so empty, and it's like sex was the one way that I knew to fill that hole. You know, but it was real temporary, and it lasted. You know, but it was real temporary and it lasted like a night or whatever, you know, and the hole was back again. And I never understood that that was just that temporary fix, you know, trying to be okay.
[01:00:03]
And after having been sober for a few years and staying single, probably a lot of that out of fear, you know, I got involved with someone and that was hard. It was a lot of work. There were some really good times and I wouldn't trade it for anything. But there was a lot of work involved in it. For me, it was like learning how to grow up. It's like learning how to do a relationship at 34, like I'd never had a relationship before.
And it was about being honest and it was about the intimacy. And, you know, it's funny, I do believe that I did really well through that entire relationship. Looking back on it now, I can see things that I did that maybe weren't quite right, but I didn't know I was doing them. And, you know, I have that awareness now to carry on into another relationship when I choose to do that. And, you know, this whole program is just about growing. For me, it's been about growing up.
And growing up has been really hard, you know. Mentally, I know what to do. Spiritually, I know what to do. You know, when it comes to my emotions, though, forget it. You know, they still kind of run my life and that's been hard for me to deal with, you know, because I know what I'm supposed to do in my head, but my emotions want me to do something else. You know, sex really hasn't been as much of a problem as no sex, you know.
Simply because I don't sleep around like I used to. You know, I tried one night stands in sobriety and they didn't feel good. The next morning, I felt cheap and I felt empty and I decided real early on in sobriety that that wasn't for me. And, you know, now I know and have learned that sex is something that comes from the love that you have for someone else. You know, I still feel like I have a lot of lessons to learn and that's okay. You know, we all do.
I don't believe there's such a thing as a sick relationship. If the two people who are involved, I mean, most people have problems, but, you know, if you're open and you're willing to work on those problems, I don't believe it's a sick relationship. And, I don't know, I'm just real grateful to be here. I never thought that I would make it to AAA. From the first time I went to a meeting, it took me eight years, five treatment centers, a $500 a day heroin habit, and I didn't think I'd live long enough to get in here.
And, you know, it's just, it's another one of those miracles. I don't know how any of us got in here. It's amazing that all of these people are walking around and no one's drinking today. You know, after going through all the stuff that I'd gone through, I did something that I really didn't think was okay in the beginning. And, I quit my job a week ago. I hadn't had a vacation in five years. And, I'm on a month-long camping trip with two friends of mine and it's really nice.
You know, and if I wasn't sober, I wouldn't be able to do any of that. You know, and it felt really good to be irresponsible for a change. I've proven, I've proven to myself I can be responsible. And, so to do something like that, just pick up and quit my job, just, it felt, it felt really good. You know, it's really neat that we could be here at the convention and we're going to go on and camp for three more weeks and hope we don't kill each other by the time the trip's over.
And, it's just really great to be here. Thanks a lot. You know, she's right too. You can read all the books and talk to all the people you want, but you won't learn how to have a relationship until you get in one. I want to make sure that somebody has done the research I've done and is willing to make the commitment and accept the responsibility before I embark on any, it's not like the old days where you, you know, that insanity, that definition of insanity, continue to do the same thing over and over and at this time it's going to be different.
You know, you just run out blind going on instinct and run into brick walls. You know, and she's right, if you take the time to understand your own self and you take the time to understand what a proper relationship and what love is, then you can get together with somebody and work on it together and you can grow from a not so perfect relationship into one that's the most beautiful ever.
[01:05:03]
How about Mike B? No Mike B? How about John, John V? All right. Hey buddy. My name is John and I'm an alcoholic from Vancouver. Everybody comes up here and makes it look so easy. I go to topic meetings. You know, I go to a lot of topic meetings and I never stay on the topic so I'm, you know, I don't know if I'm going to stay on the topic here. I started coming around AA last October and I was kind of in and out.
You know, I was locked in a couple of weeks together here and there and going out for a day and then running back to a meeting. I knew there was something there but I just couldn't seem to get it. I ended up in a treatment center in April. Somewhere between October and the treatment center I did ask God for help. I had never done that in my life. And somewhere in my, you know, I asked him for help and then a bunch of things happened to me.
I ended up in a treatment center and right now I've got, I think it's 77 days clean and sober. And, you know, that's a miracle. As far as the topic goes, I met my wife, who I'm still married to right now, when I was 15 years old. We've been together since we were 15. She's, we're 33. She doesn't drink or use. She watched me go up and down all these years. You know, just, I did all kinds of things. I switched from one drug to another.
No matter what I tried, I was a pig. I just couldn't, I just, I was an addict. When we met when we were 15, she came from another side of town to me. She came from the other side of the tracks. I was already ready for this program when I was 15 years old. I was actively using every day. And I was from the, you know, like poor section of town. And she was from a nicer section. She fell in love with me and I grabbed on, I didn't fall in love with her, but I grabbed on to her because she was sanity.
You know, like I saw something in her. As far as sex goes, you know, like I just, by the time I was 15, I was just, it was just survival. Everything was for me. Everything I did was for me. You know, I was a criminal. I was a drug dealer. All I did was look out for number one. That's all I did. Sex was the same thing. She wasn't ready for sex, but I forced her and it just went like that. We had a couple kids.
We eventually got married. I guess about six or eight years ago, while I was actively using, I saw, I started to see what I had done, you know, with our sex life. I tried to change it. I made an effort to change it, but she was deep set in what I had already done to her. And plus I was actively using, which she resented. And so I ended up getting mad at her because she didn't want this change that I suddenly wanted.
Still thinking about me. So I guess the neat thing is about it is that, like, you know, like treating sex like a problem, being 77 days clean and sober, I'm kind of on a merry-go-round right now. I don't know. In the treatment center, they suggested to me that I was 14 years old, which is about when I started using every day. That really, at the time, that really made me mad. I thought, you know, these pinheads don't know what they're talking about.
But I, last couple weeks I've been wondering if they didn't give me three or four years. You know, but it's getting better. Like, and it is better.
[01:10:01]
I have to do step three a lot, and doing step three is what got me these 77 days. I have no doubt about that at all. And things are getting better with my wife already. Like, she's open to change now. You know, she's undoubtedly sick. You know, my whole family's sick. I have a 12-year-old son who's going to Alateen. I have a 5-year-old daughter who's showing the signs of it too. So we've got a lot of problems, sex being just one of them.
But what I do notice right now is that things are kind of coming together. You know, like we just got a, the best thing that I've heard all weekend was last night at the kingdom when June said, like for me, the best thing that I've heard is if you're having a rough time, just stay sober one more day and go to another meeting. And that's what I'm doing. I'm, geez, I can't believe this. I just looked at all of you for the first time.
I'm really grateful to be here, and I'd like to thank you all for my sobriety. Thanks. Unfortunately, we're running out of time. And I was just noticing something here. I don't know how many marathon meetings you've ever attended before, but usually you get within 15 foot of the door and you can't hear for the talk. And this meeting hall has been extremely quiet during this meeting, and I hope that means that people are serious about finding out that there's a better way of doing what we've been doing by instinct all this time.
I'm glad to be here with all of you. I'm glad that you've participated. I want to thank the speakers. I had the courage to come up here and share. As you can see, we're all in various stages of recovery in every area, you know. But if we are trying one day at a time, with the help of God, then we all have the chance to get to the same point that the very best together speaker has found, you know, in sobriety.
That's what it's all for, not to continue in our sickness, but to learn how to live and how to really be on a high with love and fellowship and growth, you know. And that's what's available here. And if you're not using that, you're shortchanging yourself in every area of your life, you know. There is so much here that you can't possibly learn it in one lifetime. But if you keep coming back and you keep working this program to the best of your ability, then, by God, this thing's going to fly and go off like those Fourth of July firecrackers won't be anything compared to the life that you can find here if you're using what's here, you know.
And I sincerely hope and love all of you, and I hope that you find all the things that you've dreamed of and then some. Thank you. Thank you. How about if we stand up and hold hands and sign off with a serenity prayer? God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Keep coming back. It works. Thank you.
Thank you so much.