Audio
Transcript
Source: 1985 Montreal International Convention – Multi Speakers – FORGIVENESS Forgiveness – RS 06377.mp3 File: 1985-montreal-international-convention-multi-speakers-forgiveness-forgiveness-rs-06377.mp3 Duration: 01:17:12
============================================================
The title of this workshop is Forgiveness. And I had some opening remarks like, Don't, and I don't mean that at all. Just the opposite. I'd like to have a moment of silence, if we could, in memory of the past recoveries for the past 50 years from this wonderful program. Maybe some people here who are not familiar with our tradition. I said that the topic for this, it's actually an alphathon, is forgiveness.
And I'd just like to say a couple words about forgiveness before we get started. In my own recovery, in the first three or four years, it was very rocky. And primarily because I was carrying around some resentments. And I couldn't forgive. I couldn't get it out of my system. And it was people like, people in this room here, that taught me that I had to forgive. I had to forgive others before I could expect forgiveness for myself.
And once I started to learn that, and tried to work that, then my recovery really started. And I started to become comfortable. Before the meeting started, I met three men. And they all seemed like dynamite speakers. And I'd like to introduce them. The first one is Art M. from Alberta. Art? Thank you. This is afternoon, I guess. Good afternoon. My name is Art Marshall, and I'm an alcoholic. I'm from Calgary, Alberta.
I belong to the Glenmore Group in Calgary, which is the finest group in the world, I think. I've had continuous sobriety while attending many, many, many meetings at this particular group. When I was asked if I would speak, and I agreed that I would love to speak, and found out that I would be speaking here, and it was quite a, with mixed emotions, that I thought, well, I wonder if I should, and I wonder if I shouldn't.
But I've learned in AA that I never say no to any reasonable request. And it's done me in good stead all these years. The topic of forgiveness is a good one. I immediately got out one of my books, as Bill sees it, and in the index there, there's quite a few pages about forgiveness. And during my drinking days, and I drank from the time I was about 15 or 16 years old till I was 55, 16 years old till I was 55, and I never knew how to forgive.
And I couldn't forget, so I drank, and I drank, and I drank. I was talking to an unalcoholic friend of mine before I came out here, and I was talking to him about this subject, and forgiveness, and he said, well, forgiveness is an expression of love. And that got me to thinking it really is. I drank, I think, very heavy. When I was 21 and I got married, I was drunk, and I stayed drunk for a 10-day honeymoon.
And I drank at every occasion. I loved to drink. I liked beer, and then beer wasn't any good, so I drank whiskey. And in our particular part of the world, we had what we called Calgary stock ale, and it was strong, strong stuff. And I got to the point where I was mixing whiskey with it, take a few swigs of the stock ale, and then put whiskey in it to fill it up. I was in a total insane manner of living.
But I did sober up.
[00:04:59]
And in my drinking days,
[00:05:01]
I did a lot of things that I was ashamed of. I slapped my mother around when she was an invalid. I was afraid of my dad because he was bigger than I was. But I assassinated him verbally, and many, many of my good friends, business associates, verbally, I assassinated them. These people were all dead when I sobered up, and I really didn't know how I could make amends to those kind of people. But the person that I came to know, I call him my spiritual advisor.
He was a United Church minister, and he knew, had many, many years of being associated with Alcoholics Anonymous. And he coached me, I think that's the right word, on how to be able to forgive, how to be able to forgive myself, how to be able to believe in this God that I understand sometimes, and sometimes I don't. I had many, many occasions of traveling out to the West Coast in British Columbia, and damaging my wife's folks very badly.
All these things I didn't know when I came into this program how to handle. I studied the steps, and I read the big book many, many times, and all the literature, and slowly I have learned how to forgive. Through the instructions, and the coaching, and I guess sponsoring, that's the right word, that this gentleman gave to me, and he was, I had many, many, many times with him because he was a close friend to start with, I think one of my few close friends when I sobered up.
And I was slowly able to forgive. Forgive myself, I had to forgive myself because I was carrying a big guilt, a big load. And the program, through the 12 steps, I did come to believe in this God, and I did come to believe that he could run my life, he could run my brain, because I had an awful time getting evil, bad thoughts out of my head. Today I don't have really many problems with my brain today.
I believe that my God has taken over, I don't know whether it's my brain or my soul, the things that I used to think about, and always in the negative aspect, through God as I understand him, has eliminated those. I say the surrender prayer many, many times. I wake up in the morning and I ask for guidance. I learned that right at the beginning, that I have to ask for help because by myself I am powerless, absolutely powerless.
When we used to have sessions with this gentleman, we used to talk about powerlessness, and that word used to really stick me because I knew that I was powerless. And coming to believe in this God, as I understand, I can trust in him, I have had many occasions to trust in him. About three years ago I lost my wife. We had been married 41 years, a good marriage, a marriage filled with love. Despite my alcoholism, there was a lot of love in it.
And I had come to the conclusion when after I came into the program, I used to ask the question, why did this marriage hold out? And the answer, I believe, was love. Love was stronger than evil in this case. And it continued that way. But I can remember distinctly after four or five or six years of sobriety, wondering if this sobriety of mine would stand the test of disaster, whatever. Like in our big book, it speaks of putting money in the bank,
[00:10:02]
going to lots of meetings, reading the big book, because someday I'm going to need it, just like putting money in the bank. And when this happened, when my wife was stricken with a brain tumor, I could fall back on all the power and the resources that they were talking about in the big book. But it really worked. The only thing is, in my case, I became smug about it. And I stood up at meetings and spoke at meetings saying, look how well I survived this crisis in my life.
And that was an error that I found out last year, about two and a half years later, that I had not really willingly, but because I'm a human being, I believe, I had taken all the credit for going through this death of my wife and going to lots of AA meetings, becoming bigger and better with everybody. But I wasn't sharing. I wasn't sharing anything with anybody. And I had to do that. I had to do that last year.
And I had to go through a grieving period. And today I can be much more honest with my human beings because I knew perfectly well that I had to be honest and I thought I was being honest. I thought I could forgive, but there was really areas in my life that I couldn't forgive because I was running the show. And having gone through those experiences, like it says in our big book, we have to grow with pain.
And there was a lot of pain and there was a lot of growth. Today I feel comfortable with myself. I'm down here in a beautiful, strange country amongst friends. I've never been to this country before. And I'm happy with myself today. I'm happy to be able to get up in front of you people and say this program works because I'm a living example of it. I have learned to forgive, really learned to forgive, I think particularly myself because I have made errors in my sobriety, I've made errors in my drinking days.
But today I'm one of God's chosen children, and I believe that, and I believe every one of us are. And I have a responsibility to AA, a great responsibility, that in future years there will be AA here. Like when I came in in 1974, I came in and it was here, all ready made to go. There was old timers and everything. I hold that responsibility very dear today. And it enhances my sobriety, my serenity, so that I can face the world.
I can wear God's grace as a loose mantle, a protective mantle, which is a beautiful thing to be able to do. I had a big shell around me for so many years that it wasn't even funny. And in closing, I haven't got any smart remarks. I'm just an ordinary drunk. I'm a sober drunk today, and I love living, and I love people. And I want to thank you very much for you being here. Thank you very much. Applause Thanks, Art.
I would like to remind you people that this meeting is being taped, so if you want to purchase the tapes, you may. At this time, I'd like to introduce you to Ray T. Ray? Applause My name is Ray Thompson. I'm an alcoholic. Hi, everybody. I'd like to bring you greetings from the U.S., the state of Arkansas, and the city of Pine Bluff, which my home group is the Pine Bluff Group. My sobriety date is July 10, 1978, and I'm grateful for all of those.
I'd rather be Ray Thompson. I'd rather be Ray Thompson today, living in the time that I live in, where I live, than any other thing I can think of.
[00:15:07]
It hasn't always been that way for me, because I wanted to be somewhere else, be somebody else at another time, most of my life. And booze helped me do a lot of that. You know, and I crawled in that jug at an early age, and it took thirty years to crawl out of it. And today, I've got a lot to be grateful for. You know, I'm an old country boy from the hill farms of Arkansas, and it's rather, you know, it's astounding that, you know, this kid here with his many friends that we've got here.
You know, it's something that I can hardly comprehend. I'm not a speaker, but I would like to share with you some of the things that I feel about forgiveness. And the first person I think that I've got to forgive is my area delegate for dropping my name in the hat. I warn you, don't get on friendly terms with your delegates. Very strange things will happen to you. Now, we were talking on our plane trip up here about some of the things that possibly I could include in my sharing session.
And I think Ruth has got a whole list of things that probably I could, you know, talk about. On one side, the things that, you know, I should ask forgiveness for, but her list on the other side is pretty short. And so, you know, I don't quite understand a lot of that. Anyway, I've got a friend back there in the audience somewhere. His name is John. You know, John and I showed up in the program about the same time, about seven years ago.
And we've got a unique friendship. You know, we don't have a whole lot in common. Our backgrounds are thoroughly different. You know, it's kind of like the big book says. You know, these things kind of bring us together. John and I have been a lot of places and done a lot of things together since we got sober. And one of the things that was on the list that John had given me to get some forgiveness for, it started out at the airport when we got out to the airport.
Well, through all the mass confusion, John wound up in the head of the line and bought tickets to the bus to bring us downtown. And Ruth says, you know, John's up there getting some tickets. Better you go on up there. And I said, no, I'm watching John's luggage. John will get us our tickets. Well, I watched John's luggage. John came back with John's tickets. And Ray and Ruth don't have no tickets. So now, every time we get in a cab, John pays the bill, and I mark him up a little bit more forgiveness.
So it's working out well. You know, our Master talks about forgiveness way back there in the beginning of time. You know, the moral prayer that we use at the closing of most meetings, most all over the world, is, you know, forgive us of our debts as we forgive our debtors. And to me, that means that we ask forgiveness in direct proportion as to what we are willing to forgive our fellow people. I'm not always willing to forgive on a complete basis, and I do believe that that is one of the things that probably causes me some of my grief and agitations and human frailties that most of us drunk continue to have from time to time.
I would like to say that I could work this program on a perfect type basis, but, you know, I'm told that I can't, so that makes it okay, that, you know, I am willing to do the best that I can with what I've got on today. And, you know, that to me is a miracle within itself, because I always stayed so frustrated most of my life not being able to do what I thought that I needed to do, and therefore I just got a little deeper and a little deeper in the old jug, you know.
Sometime I could get cocked enough that I would be able to do most anything that, you know, in my own mind. But basically the insecurities were still there, and when the jug quit working and the booze ran out and it become basically a physical addiction more than anything else, I was left in a state of limbo that was, you know, I was there. I didn't know what to do. Thank God you people came along.
Thank God y'all came along. Even Jesus Christ forgave about the last thing he did on this earth, you know, forgave those people who killed him.
[00:20:03]
And, you know, I was told with my sponsor, you know, if the Supreme Being, as we all got to believe in some type of higher power, you know, if they were big enough to do that, you know, us mere mortals shouldn't have a whole lot of problems with that. And I can understand that today. And that today I need to live in a situation that I am not ever blaming you for something that you have done to me. If I feel that you have harmed me, I've got to find it somewhere in my daily meditation to forgive you of that wrong that you did to me in my heart.
And probably you're not even conscious that you stepped on my toes. But I've got to kind of keep myself squared away like that or that's, you know, that my day is ruined. And I'll probably ruin yours if you come in contact with me. You know, the other side of the coin in getting forgiveness, you know, we get our steps together and we make all these things. We look in the dark crannies and figure out exactly what is wrong with us and who we've stepped on and who we've shafted and what all this and that and the other.
And, you know, there's a lot of people that I've avoided a lot of my time because, hey, you know, I owe that guy money. You know, I did that guy wrong. You know, I made a pass at that guy's wife. And, you know, I was glad to lose all my friends in various ways that the guilt and remorse and that type of negative feelings were just eating my lunch. And, you know, I would rather stay away from you as to try to make amends or to apologize.
And I'd say, hey, I was just drunk. I didn't mean it. Or, you know, the simple little things that make life so enjoyable today I was not able to do. I was just flat not able to do it. I was just easy to take another drink and forget it. You know, the Hatfields and McCoys would not still be fighting today if they could just kind of forgive each other. You know, the wars that we've seen from time one on down through the time.
And somehow or another, it took two drunks meeting together 50 years ago to give us a way that we could get rid of this type of thing that we didn't have to have the personal conflict that our governments and, you know, just earth people of all types are having. Now, they can be miserable as hell and not drink themselves to death. But we can be miserable as hell and, you know, we're which where we'll go.
Because, you know, I don't stand pain very well, you know. And if I get hurt enough, I know where there's a little bit of relief out there somewhere. So I've got to keep myself on some level of serenity, of tolerance, patience, you know, that I just don't go off bang somewhere and not do the things that you people have taught me that I've got to do. Whenever, you know, you get on down into step five and you start doing that and the peeling away of the layers of the onion or the cabbage or whatever you want to compare it to, it seems like a little after each layer that you get things get a little bit purer and a little bit more happens to you.
So somewhere along the line that, you know, you've cleared away as much of the past as that you can remember or as much as you can do at that particular time. I do know that seven years as I've been sober, some of the things are just now coming back that, you know, that's kind of like mining a gold mine. You throw out, you know, you grab the big nuggets first. But somewhere along the line, those little things, they're going to start bugging you.
And those you've got to get rid of too, or at least I do. And today, they're not as painful, but they sure gouge in there. And I've got to go and do those things. And I'd like to give you two or three of my worst guilt trips that I've had. You know, in 1970, alcohol got my first wife. You know, we'd been married 17, 18 years. And it so often happened in females, from three years from the time that she started drinking on a fairly regular basis, she was dead.
And I didn't realize at that time that my alcoholism had progressed to the point
[00:25:02]
where I was still a good time Saturday night drunk. You know, I was drinking every day, but I'd just get drunk on Saturday night. And, you know, a lot of never things had never happened in my life. So, you know, it kind of astounded me that the lady, you know, the last time she was in the hospital, she didn't regain conscious, and that was it. You know, the things that I was told, that, you know, if you'd have straightened your act up, and if you had done certain things, and if you had been a better husband, and all these so-so-so, this lady would probably not have died.
And the day, the morning she died, I had a preacher that I had never met, just happened to be there, and he called me off to the side, and he told me, he says, are you going to feel guilty of this? You know, and it never occurred to me that I would. You know, she died of the disease, I knew that much about it. But, you know, he was right. Whenever the family came to me and started laying this guilt trip on me, it took.
You know, and it really took. And I started blaming myself, and I went back to the different areas that possibly I could have done something better. But I still had my friend, the jug, and, you know, they would make the nights a little less lonely. And I had three teenage children at home, and, you know, that took up a lot of my time. And thank God they pretty well raised themselves. In spite of me, they turned out okay.
But, and it took you people to teach me that, hey, you don't have to take that guilt trip. You know, you can forgive yourself if you will just do certain things, you know. I said, I can't forgive myself. And, you know, my wise old sponsor, he says, well, God forgives you. You think you're greater than God. And to put it on a level that I could understand. And today, I think about it. I no longer say that, hey, I'm the cause of anything happening.
You know, my hour of power just pretty well runs my life today. And I realize now that it pretty well run it a long time ago. I just thought that I was in control. And, you know, it's amazing that the egotism and even a guilt trip is an ego trip. You know, to me it is. The things that keep me from falling back in these old patterns is, you know, is this strive for the so-called perfection. I know that I'll never get to be perfect.
But somewhere that's got to be the goal out there. You know, I don't try to stay sober forever. But that is my goal, not to drink ever again. You know, one day at a time I realize all of this. But, you know, today I realize that somewhere out there there's got to be a beacon light that you've got to point toward. You know, knowing that you'll never get there. But you've got to set it out there somewhere.
And that keeps me willing to do the things that I can today. And that's all that my book has asked me to do. And that's all my sponsor has asked me to do. And that's really, it's basically all that needs me to keep sober. And, you know, sobriety is not, you know, that's the bottom line. But it is just a minor part of our benefits from this program. And it's amazing that I can never even realize that until I've been around, of course.
You know, I say, ooh, look at me, I ain't drinking. God, that was terrible. You know, and Ruth said that was terrible. God, she said, well, why don't he go back to drinking? You know. And I guess probably a lot of, you know, I've seen a lot of that. And it was simply because I was not willing to get into the cleaning away the records of my past so I could get the forgiveness and be able to forgive the others.
And the one day that I took my little list in my hand and I was going to start out talking to these people and say, you know, I'm sorry the wrong I have done you. Well, you know, is there anything that I can do to make it up to you? And, you know, I had my little speech all made out. And I was willing, you know. And the daylight came and I was awake. And the more I thought of it, you know, the more I procrastinated.
And the later in the day it got, the more I thought about the sicker I got. And I got so damn sick I stayed in bed all day. You know, and it was just that type of a problem for me to ever get started to saying that I am sorry. You know. I knew I was sorry, but I didn't know that, you know, I couldn't say that I was sorry for the wrongs I've done you people.
[00:30:03]
Thank God, you know, it didn't last forever. And I realize today that the pain we're having today is just groundwork for the growth that we'll get tomorrow. And I can understand why, you know, it makes it a whole lot easier on the thing. Probably not going to take all my 20 minutes, but if one of the things that I wanted to tell you about is to, in my belief, the most important part of forgiveness is preventative forgiveness.
I'm on the fringe of medical profession, I'm a pharmacist, and in my profession we have a lot of preventative medicine. And we found out that if you stop something before it starts, things are a hell of a lot better off. And I find that my little routine stays pretty well in the perspective that I do the things that I am taught to do. I don't find it necessary to have to apologize or to beg your forgiveness or whatever on near the basis that I once did.
And it's rinky-dink, you know, as I thought in the beginning, you know, all the little signs of how rinky-dink Mickey Mouse they used to look. And my routine of not drinking today and living some vagueness of serenity is starting out in the morning, as they suggest, you know, reading my little black book and saying a little bit of short prayer and leaving to God and going about my business. If I, by any chance, hurt your feelings knowledgeably, it is necessary for me to say so at that particular time.
You know, I can't let these things fester in my mind and yours and ruin a relationship. Because it's not just that I've lost another friend, you know, it cares some of me. And enough of those me's gone from me, you know, I won't be back. I won't be back. I've been lucky or one of the fortunate ones to have a few people found me that I've never found it necessary to practice anymore. But I do know that it's just you people that's keeping me one drink away from that drunk.
You people took a little old country boy from Arkansas, and I apologize to you people who thought I was from Arizona. I didn't do that. And you found me after 30 years of soaking myself in a jug. And you say, come and join us. We will make you what you thought you could never be. And I didn't understand that. I didn't understand that you could get rid of my doubts and my fears, my insecurity, and replace all those negative things back with some positive attitudes.
You know, I used to never go to my own conventions, you know, and I just love to be around you people. You know, I'm still a fairly shy, inward person, but I can just feel the love radiating just to be around you. You know, and I need that, and I need it on a daily basis. And I go to a lot of conventions. I do a little service work, too. That's the reason I'm here, you know. If I hadn't met my delegate, he'd have never known about me, you know.
But you took me. You took what I was, which was kind of a sorry mess. And I was not willing to listen to you. I was not willing to give up my old habits. I was not willing to give up the thing that was actually killing me. I had come to the conclusion I couldn't drink, but I also came to the conclusion I could not drink. And it was that quandary that we often find ourselves in. But you were very patient.
You said, just keep coming back, just don't drink today, and we love you. And you did this over and over and over. And you took this little boy from the hills of Arkansas, and you got him up here in a beautiful country that I've been wanting to come to for 50-odd years, and it took a bunch of drunks to get me here. And I forgive you all for that. Thank you. Applause Thanks, Ray. I think I understand your delegate.
[00:35:01]
Ray reminded me of an episode in my life. In those first few years of sobriety when I was struggling, I had a hard time forgiving myself for a lot of the things that I had done. And one day my sponsor suggested to me that, what's the one thing in your life you really love, Bob? And I said, my son. He said, if he did something bad, what would you do? And I said, I'd probably try to fix it. And he said, no, that's not what I mean.
He said, would you forgive him no matter what he did? And I said, absolutely. And he said, that's the way your father feels about you. And that set me back his pace, because I realized that I could be forgiven for the things that I had done. And Ray reminded me of that with his message. Thanks, Ray. At this time I'd like to introduce Mickey M. from Georgia. Mickey. Applause Thank you, Bob. I'm Mickey Milner, and I'm an alcoholic.
For all of those of you that are leaving, I'm going to switch the talk to sex and sobriety. Laughter There's a group in New York City who meet down around 125th Street, some of the meanest streets in the world. And right in that area is Columbia University, one of the highest learning centers in the world. And periodically there would be a professor who would come to the meeting, and he would always come a little bit drunk, having a few drinks.
And the months went on, and the years went on, and he would always tell this group all these great, eight-syllable words of why he could not get sober. And finally one night, a six-foot-six long shoreman couldn't take it one more hour, and went over to the little professor and grabbed him by the coat lapels and said, in this program we don't drink no damn booze. Laughter And he fainted. Laughter And he's been sober 25 years.
Laughter That's called carrying the message. Laughter To get my statistics out of the way, I have been sober since May 30th, 1966. 19 years. And for that I am deeply grateful. Applause I want to mention Frankie Rice, who had absolutely nothing to do with me getting sober. I don't even know his wife, and I had been sober a long time before he got sober. But Frankie is asked to talk around the country a lot, and I figured that if I mentioned his name here, he perhaps would mention my name when he's talking.
You cover all your bets. And I also am tired of pushing him in his damn wheelchair and having to race with other people that are in wheelchairs, and he keeps saying, get faster and faster, and I'm doing the pushing. And then when he's not in his wheelchair, he throws his cane or crutches at me. So I wanted to mention his name. No other reason. I've got my sponsor in this room today. He couldn't figure out how to find an old movie to go see.
And the other thing going on didn't interest him. And I want to tell you a story about taking yourself too seriously. About 10 or 12 years ago, I went to the doctor for a routine physical exam, and the doctor found a little spot on my lung. And he gave me all this medical jargon, and I said, are you talking about cancer of the lung? And he said, yes, I am, Mickey. And I went out for a couple of days, and I was very dramatic with myself.
I brooded. I felt that I had been cheated. And after about two days of deep introspection, I went to my sponsor, and I gave him an Academy Award performance.
[00:40:02]
Richard Burton would have envied my performance. And I talked for about 20 or 30 minutes, and that's the longest he had ever kept his mouth shut in his whole life. And at the end of that time, he said, better you than me. It's too bad that I couldn't have talked on carrying the message or on taking yourself too seriously. A couple of years went by after this happened, and Bill had a very serious operation.
And after his operation, and there was some debate as to whether he would see again, I went into the intensive care unit, and I tiptoed over to his bed, and I put my hand in his hand, and I said, Bill, it's Mickey. And he said, hi, Mickey. And I said, better you than me, bastard. I've forgiven a lot of people in my life. One of the people I have forgiven is a six-foot cop that was helping me get out of an all-night dryer in an all-night laundromat.
You know what a dryer is in a laundromat? And he was asking me the dumbest question I have ever heard in my life. He is saying, he is asking me, what are you doing in that laundromat, in the dryer? And I thought, this is the stupidest question I've ever heard. I am freezing you, jackass. And I was his guest for the rest of the evening. I thought it was a dumb question. Another stupid question asked to me one time was I was sitting on the top of my house, enjoying the sunshine, with a bathing suit on, and my wife is yelling at me to get off the roof.
And she is embarrassing me. And she is screaming, absolutely screaming in high C. And I don't know how many of y'all have been ever involved in domestic scenes, but neighbors come out to their end of the lawn. They do not come on your lawn, they stay on their end of the lawn in little patches to enjoy the show. It beats Sunday afternoon NFL football. And she is screaming at me, and I am going like this, shh, you're embarrassing me.
If I had, the stupid question she was asking me is to get down, the question there was, if I got down she was going to pour my liquor out, and that would have been stupid, wouldn't it? I had the ladder with me too, up on the roof. I told that story for six years in Alcoholics Anonymous, and finally one night, a young girl went up to Margaret, and asked her about it, and Margaret made some appropriate remark, and we were driving home in the car, and she said, of all the loony things you ever did, I don't remember the roof.
And like a bolt of lightning, coming out of the sky, it was the wrong wife. It had happened with another wife. I feel awfully honored to be here. I've got a couple of wives, that got me here, my daughter is here with me. She just got her Ph.D. in Psychology last month, and I went and saw her graduate. It's been seven years, it's been a long, tough, grueling time for Laura. Now, after the meeting is over, if anybody wants a quickie psychological profile, I'm only charging ten bucks for thirty minutes.
I'm not going to charge anybody. I'm only charging ten bucks for thirty minutes. Profile, I'm Only Charging 10 Bucks for 30 Minutes, Could Use the Money, Now Actually Laura's Not Into That Type of Psychology, She's Into One Where They Figure Out Why the Rats Stay in the City Rather Than the Country, You Know, That Sort of Thing, Why We Big Groups of People Do Big Things,
[00:45:13]
I was, I had nine months of sobriety and I was driving down the road with a guy years ago and I was telling him with all of the power that was in me, I said, I feel nuts, and I think I'm nuts, and he said, I think you are too, and he took me back because he said it with a lot more conviction than I said it, and I said, how long do I continue to feel nuts, how long does this, I was going to meetings, I was doing what you were saying to do, I was staying sober, I was doing it one day at a time, and I didn't believe one thing, and he said, here's what I want you to do, he said, I want you to say please in the morning and thanks at night, and I said, that is absolutely ridiculous, and I started to protest, he said, wait a minute, he said, I didn't say you had to believe it, he said, I want you to do it, and that night I went home and no one else was in the room, and I looked up at the ceiling and felt stupid and sheepish, and I said, thank you, and the next day, making sure no one was around me, I said, please, and I did just what he said, please in the morning and thank you at night, and the weeks went on and the months went on, and great things were happening to me, but great things had been happening for the two years I had been sober, and I did not connect it, so today if someone says, do I believe in miracles, I not only believe in miracles, I expect them, I've been getting them continuously for 19 years, that's one of the great promises of Alcoholics and Homeless, I have gotten these miracles, they continue to come, and they have been coming, I have found that the more I put into this thing, the more I get out of it, when I had five years of sobriety, I got very bored, extremely so, everything and everyone was off my back, my checkbook balanced, my wife and I were getting along alright, I had no problems, and I got extremely bored, and I knew people that had left Alcoholics Anonymous, had not come back to meetings, and were staying sober, and happy by all appearances, I could not deny that, I knew people that were doing that, not one or two, but a lot of them, and I thought, I can't do that, this thinking process that I had, it went on for about three or four months, did I want to leave AA, or did I want to stay, I was not going to drift out, I was going to make a conscious decision, at the end of that period of time, I and another man started a group, and this has been over 14 years ago, it's the big book group of Alcoholics Anonymous, we meet every Saturday night, and I think it's the finest group in the United States, and the rest of the world, like we all do, I got involved, and I got deeper involved, and I took on more responsibility, and I've been involved ever since, I think being involved for me, is what keeps this gift for me, I think that I, in my case, and my personal belief, is God, as I understand him, gave me this gift one time, and if I abuse it, by taking another drink, the gift will never be given back to me again, this is my belief, I have found that the more I give, the more I get out,
[00:50:08]
I have been to three internationals, since I got sober, I am in awe of internationals, I am in awe of what we are going to see tonight, the flag ceremony, I am in awe of Sunday morning, and you can bet if you see me, that you are going to see me crying, 19 years, and I am pretty tough, but this thing, it just racks me up, of all the world, this thing, this hands are stretched out to each other, we know each other, and we can't even speak each other's language, and yet we are all here in Montreal, and I have told you several stories, and I hope I have brought a smile or two to your face, but I haven't mentioned forgiveness, I, like the other speakers, have had a couple of months to think about it, they waxed it very eloquently, and I have only had one magnificent experience with it, that has changed my whole life, and that experience is this, when I had been sober for five years, my first wife, a marriage of teen years, teenage years, called me and said it's time for you to meet your son, I had not seen him from the time he was two to the time he was 19, and we met in a coffee shop, she and I and he, and I had this boy that looked so much like me physically, exactly my height and weight, and he's 19, and I'm 38, there is, you cannot practice your speech, the emotion is so high that you can feel it, you want to do this one right, if you never do another thing again, I wanted to do that one right, and we sat there, and he ordered some breakfast and food with it, and I ordered some breakfast and food with it, and we chit chatted and said really nothing, and finally his mother got up and said I'm going to leave you two alone, and we looked at each other, and I said some things, I didn't say forgiveness, I just said you're 19 years of age, and if you've got to put it on somebody, put it on me, not her, she's done all right by you, there's another guy walking this earth that he calls dad too, and the guy's a nice guy, and he's done a great job with my son, this has been 15 years ago, 14 years ago, and we started that day, we started that day, it started with a couple of dinners, he met Margaret, he met Laura, his half sister, and it started, a few months went by and we went off on a couple of trips together, and this was in early March, that Christmas he presented me with a replica of the Cutty Sark, the sailing ship, it took him three months to build it, he's a master builder with his hands, 14 years have gone by, the word forgiveness has never been used between us, but every month and week, he forgives me, I see it in his eyes, I see it with the two grandchildren that his lovely wife has presented him and me, my grandchildren, my grandsons, and the word forgiveness has never been used, hugs have been exchanged, strong, solid, man to man embraces have been exchanged, jokes are now taking place, and that started all years ago, kidding each other,
[00:55:17]
a history has built between us, a 14 year history has come between us, we have fun and the years go by and we get more and more relaxed together, and that to me is what I consider forgiveness. I spent the last couple of months like the other two speakers and every speaker in this convention here, thinking about what to say to you, and I just could not come up with anything that meant more to me than my personal story of my personal relationship with my son and our forgiveness. Thank you.
I'd like to thank Art, Ray and Mickey for some fine messages, and all of them I think have underlined the theme of this workshop, which is forgiveness. Thank you. The title of this workshop is forgiveness, and I may need some. This workshop is scheduled to go to 5 o'clock, and they asked me to keep it on time, and that means starting and ending on time. And I've been looking around the room with some of my friends, many of whom I know have some messages they might like to share with you on forgiveness. Not forgiving me, I hope. Jim, would you like to come up for a minute?
Good afternoon. My name is Jim Smith, and I'm a grateful recovering alcoholic. And I didn't have two months, I didn't have two minutes, but I'm here. And I want to thank the three speakers. I was really impressed, I really enjoyed them. And I do have a little something on forgiveness. Like our last speaker, I have a son that's in this room today, and six and a half years ago when I was trying to recover from my addiction and was doing fairly well, he started to use.
And twice I threw him out, and twice he came back, each time worse. And he just celebrated six months sobriety. And he said to me one day, Daddy, I want to thank you for all the chances you've given me, all the times you forgave me. And out of the blue, I said, well, my father has forgiven me many times, so I can forgive you. And I learned that in these rooms from people like you. I learned a new way of life. I learned how to forgive.
And it's been a beautiful six and a half years. I wouldn't trade the worst day in my last six and a half years with the best day I had when I was drinking. And I came here for my own sobriety, and to save my life, and never dreamed that someday my son would be here with me. And the greatest reward that I could ever expect from this fellowship is to have my son here with me for this 50th anniversary.
And I said to him when we came up here, I said, you're 22. Came up here, I said, you're twenty-two, there's a chance you might be around for the hundredth anniversary. I owe a lot, I owe everything to the fellowship of AA.
[01:00:01]
My wife forgave me many times, we just celebrated twenty-nine years. And she forgave me, and she stuck by me. And you people gave me a new life. You people helped me arrest the addiction I was in for thirty-four years and didn't even know it. I know today I was born an alcoholic. My grandfather was an alcoholic. My father was an alcoholic. I am an alcoholic. And my son is a drug addict and alcoholic.
He's cross-addicted. And I hope that finally, through the awareness you people have given me and my son, maybe we can arrest, maybe we can stop this disease that's been running rampant in my family for generations. And since I've been sober this past six and a half years, I have a little prayer that I learned in this fellowship. I have quite a few little prayers. And one of my favorites is, dear God, you know what I need, you know what I want, please give me what you think I should have.
And he did. He gave me eleven beautiful grandchildren in my six and a half year sobriety. And in the first eighteen months of my sobriety, I had three daughters get married, I had three weddings and three open bars. And I paid for all the booze and I didn't take a drink. And that's a miracle. That's three miracles. My whole life today is one miracle after the other. Constant miracles. And the last miracle that happened, my son finding this fellowship, finding sobriety, and no thanks to me.
The only thing I did, I did give him the attraction. He did see my life going well. And I think maybe he wanted what Dad had. I'll be forever grateful for this beautiful fellowship and you beautiful people. And I love you all. Thanks. Thanks, Jim. All of our speakers, or some of them anyway, have mentioned service. I've been in service for a few years now and there's a gentleman in this room that has something to do with my journey here today.
And I'd like to ask him to come up now. Jim? I'll forgive you. I really will. Didn't expect to come up here. I'm Jim O'Shea and I'm an alcoholic. And I really don't expect anyone to forgive me in this life. But I've got to remember that I've got to be forgiving of those around me. I have six kids. Some of them will have something to do with me today. And I've been sober about 16 years. And some will have something to do with me today and others won't.
But they're my kids and I forgive them for whatever position they take in life and how they feel towards me. Someday they may come back. I hope so. I think that one of the big things I found in being forgiving, or trying to be forgiving, because I'm not always successful at this, is a little prayer once in a while. It can be any prayer you want. Just pray for that person that you're trying to forgive.
And pray that you have the ability to forgive them for whatever they may have done to you. Life today for me is beautiful. It has been for a good many years now. I'm not much different than Mickey on my outlook. And I just think that this life in AA, I'm so grateful I'm here. I think this life in AA, for me, is the greatest thing that's ever happened to me in life. Thank you. We have a few minutes.
Are there any volunteers who would like to share with us?
[01:05:08]
Welcome, John. Thank you. Hi, everybody. I'm John Semple. I'm an alcoholic. I'm trying to control a little emotion that's going on. We have a little prayer that we say. It says, on a daily basis, help us grow in love and understanding in our little bunch that we have. And I was listening to some of the other people here. And it's my belief that by growing in love and understanding that we can understand these other people and forgive them.
I, too, have an alcoholic father and three alcoholic sons. And that's come to pass. I have, in the last couple of years, been able to hug my dad and tell him I love him. And after living for 48 years in cold fear of that man, it's been a real experience. In the last two years, all three of my sons have come to me. I have two that are not drinking now. I have one that's popping back and forth between AA and the poison.
And I think he'll be along because things are getting rougher for him real often. He gets into a lot of trouble. And I think he'll be along because he has seen now that it doesn't have to be that way. And I found that in forgiving my father, he's a pretty violent fellow. And in being able to forgive him, in turn, the forgiveness has come to me from my boys. And my little guy, this last Father's Day, sent me a card and said, I'd like to get together with you and get to know you a little better.
And for me, that's forgiveness. I thank nothing other than this program and my higher power. Thank you very much. Thanks, John. Is there anybody else that would like to share with us? Yes. My name's Judy. I'm an alcoholic. It's really good to be here. This is a terrific meeting for me. I've been listening to people share about forgiveness, and that's probably the hardest thing for me. I've been sober going on two years, and I've been shown nothing but forgiveness and kindness.
What I'm finding out, and especially up here, is that when I can't forgive, it's something in me. My intolerance, which I'm finding, is stronger than I'd like it to be. Seeing things in other people that I see myself, which is scary to me. I grew up on the streets, basically, and there was no forgiveness. It was get even with everybody. I'm not comfortable with that today. I was listening to the gentleman before sharing about his little boy, wanting to get to know him.
I can remember after my first year anniversary, my brother and sister-in-law had given me privileges back to spend time with my nephew and my newborn niece. That was a miracle. Before, when I was still active, I wasn't allowed to see them because they were scared for their lives. I'm finding that I'm still scared of a lot of things. When I'm scared, I have this real thick wall between me and everybody else.
When that wall is there, this tough person comes out. As long as that person doesn't want to be with anybody or keeps everyone at a distance, it gives me the right to being nasty, not forgiving, cold. Through this fellowship, I found out I'm not that person at all, though. I don't have to be that cold person. There's a real loving side of me that has a real hard time coming out. I get scared to be vulnerable
[01:10:03]
because I always think that somebody out there is going to really hurt me. AA has never given me a reason to feel that way. They've been my protective shield. They've forgiven me when I couldn't forgive myself, and they've loved me when I couldn't love myself and didn't think there was anything to love. I had a rough few days up here, being in a new place. I knew my sponsor was up here, and I wouldn't call her.
I wasn't willing. It was funny. I was joking with my roommate, and I said, you know, God answers prayers up in Canada, too. I told God when he thought I was ready to handle seeing my sponsor, put her in front of me, and we were walking down towards this meeting. Right there on the street, hey, Judy. And we spent the first part of the meeting just talking. I don't have to blame anybody else for anything today.
I can look at me and say, it's with me, and then I can change. I'm not the victim anymore. I've had to learn to forgive myself, and that was the hardest. To look in the mirror and say I love the person I see. I drank for over half my life, and I'm only 22. And I never thought the words would come out of my mouth. But because I forgave me, I have to extend that. And that's real scary to me, because that's leaving myself vulnerable and open.
And that's still new to me, and I'm learning. People have taught me everything about life. I've gotten everything I always wanted in life, but never knew how to ask for, and didn't even know half of it existed. And it's a real trip to see all these sober people. I didn't think there were so many. I thought it was amazing when I was in an area of 1,500 sober people. And that's nothing. There were that many at the dance last night.
This is overwhelming to me. It really is. This tells me that there's recovery everywhere. Everywhere. I went to Virginia last week with my boyfriend, who's not in the fellowship. And it was kind of uncomfortable. And I went to a meeting down there. I didn't know the place. I didn't have a car. But it was there for me. Any time I need this fellowship, it's there. I don't have to know you when I know you.
I don't have to know your name, and you're my friend, though, and you'll stick your hand out to me. I don't have to apologize, because you understand. You know, I used to think I was so unique. And I'm not. I'm just another drunk. And there are people who can show me where I can go, you know. This is an amazing fellowship. It is definitely God sent. Thank you. Thank you. I think I saw somebody else get up a little while ago.
Hi, everybody. My name's Doug White, and I'm an alcoholic. I'm here under protest. Art's my sponsor, and he told me to get the hell up here and talk. That's dirty pool. I've been forgiven for those things. I really don't know what to say. I could natter on for hours. I suppose I've ever got rolling. But Mickey kind of hit a couple good ones. It's a silent forgiveness. And it made me think back after I'd been sober, I don't know, a couple, three years.
And my dad, he's no longer with us. It's Christmas time up at the house. And he's out in the kitchen pouring drinks, and I was out getting a Coke. And he said something to the effect, still not drinking. I said, yeah. And that was it. A couple of tears in his eyes. You know, and I guess that's a kind of a form of forgiveness. I never had the opportunity to do that. I never had the opportunity to do the amends that I felt I should have done to my dad.
However, you know, in my mind, I think that did it, and that's the silent ones. My son and I, similar to Mickey, but not for such a long period of time.
[01:15:04]
We didn't see much of each other. We go out and we go fishing, and we're sitting on a lake. And the two of us can sit there for 10, 15, 20, 30 minutes, not say a word. That's the silent forgiveness, both ways. And it's just an amazing thing. I never thought I'd have anything to say on that topic, because I hate talking on specific topics anyway, because I don't know nothing about them. But, damn it all, this one kind of hit home, and it's kind of neat.
I was thinking, too, back when… It took me four years to get around to really doing anything other than the first half of the first step. And I did my fifth with a crazy Franciscan monk. I guess I didn't know what to expect, but I went up there and he was in a pair of jeans, sandals, and a t-shirt that said, I survived the Bermuda Triangle. I thought he'd have a little more reverence than that when I'm going up to do my fifth step, but that's the way the cat operated.
But he asked me to review the first three or four steps with him before he would listen to me. I started off, and first half the first step that I am powerless over alcohol, he interrupted me and he said, no, you're just powerless. And I don't remember what else I talked about, but it hit home that it's not just alcohol. And I guess that's what the prayer says, the surrendering prayer. I am powerless over everything, and the only things I can change are me.
Please don't change. Thanks. Applause Thanks, Doug. And thank all of my speakers. I appreciate those that prepared and those that were impromptu. Would you please join with me in the large prayer that closes the meeting?