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[00:00:00.100 – 00:00:01.200] The founders are moving.

[00:00:01.200 – 00:00:03.300] Now first we get Bill Wilson.

[00:00:03.300 – 00:00:14.000] I

[00:00:14.000 – 00:00:23.900] understood, dear folks, that this was a session in which the experiences and the woes of Intergroup or Central Service associations would be discussed.

[00:00:23.900 – 00:00:34.100] And frankly, I came over here for some information, uh, strictly as a pupil, and I learned, uh, only a very short time ago

[00:00:34.100 – 00:00:35.800] that I was supposed to talk.

[00:00:35.800 – 00:00:42.400] Well, uh, I can always manage to do that, but I– It wouldn’t be very enlightening on the subject of Intergroup.

[00:00:42.400 – 00:00:51.600] Tell you what I have in mind, uh, that is the construction within the next year or two of a complete manual of service.

[00:00:51.600 – 00:01:01.700] As you know, we have the Third Legacy Manual of Service, still incomplete in any refined sense, and that I would like to see enlarged into

[00:01:01.700 – 00:01:11.700] something that would take in the whole, uh, function of AA, from the group level up to the Intergroup level to the general services and reaching out

[00:01:11.700 – 00:01:18.600] into the world outside, touching upon any facility or anything that helps us to properly function.

[00:01:18.600 – 00:01:25.600] So as I say, I came over to share the experience with you and primarily to listen.

[00:01:25.600 – 00:01:35.600] I must plead, too, to some neglect of the Intergroup situation because I have been preoccupied with the problem for

[00:01:35.600 – 00:01:44.800] the last fifteen years of anchoring the cupola on the barn to it in such a way that the storms are not going to blow it off.

[00:01:44.800 – 00:01:54.800] And I’m afraid that I have not been in the least helpful, uh, to the Intergroup associations who have been struggling to get proper function and who have,

[00:01:54.800 – 00:01:59.700] notwithstanding, done such a wonderful, wonderful job.

[00:01:59.700 – 00:02:05.800] Now, I’m just a little put to it, uh, to know what to talk about.

[00:02:05.800 – 00:02:10.000] Uh, they suggest that I talk until three o’clock.

[00:02:10.000 – 00:02:21.200] Uh, my thought was that if I spun a little yarn about how the world services grew and what they are and what they do, accompanied

[00:02:21.200 – 00:02:31.300] with some diagrams which might be enlightening to you on how these things have universally developed in AA, what a great likeness there

[00:02:31.300 – 00:02:36.500] is in all of these functions, as dissimilar as they sometimes seem to be.

[00:02:36.500 – 00:02:41.000] And, um, so well, here goes.

[00:02:41.000 – 00:02:46.700] Uh, I guess it was about nineteen thirty-seven that Dr.

[00:02:46.700 – 00:02:51.700] Bob and I got talking about how this movement could function.

[00:02:51.700 – 00:02:55.500] It was then proved, of course, that we could get a few people sober.

[00:02:55.500 – 00:02:58.400] There were a couple of score on hand.

[00:02:58.400 – 00:03:08.600] And we began to think that we needed, uh, some sort of a textbook, a literature, so this thing wouldn’t, uh, get askew,

[00:03:08.600 – 00:03:18.800] so the message wouldn’t get garbled, so the message could be carried through the printed page to places which obviously forty of us weren’t going to reach in a hurry.

[00:03:18.800 – 00:03:25.300] In those days, too, we had clear notions about, uh, professionalism.

[00:03:25.300 – 00:03:35.100] A lot of us thought we would have to get subsidized somehow to lug the message from Akron and New York and Cleveland, uh, out to other centers.

[00:03:35.100 – 00:03:40.700] After all, it had been la- very laborious to get even, uh, forty recoveries.

[00:03:40.700 – 00:03:48.100] Certainly, the millions of drunks in the world were not going to come in boxcars to New York, Akron, and Cleveland to get dry.

[00:03:48.100 – 00:03:49.700] So how would we get there?

[00:03:49.700 – 00:03:52.000] How would we communicate?

[00:03:52.000 – 00:03:53.800] How would we transmit what we knew?

[00:03:53.800 – 00:04:00.300] That was the crying question that was posed for the first time in nineteen hundred and thirty-seven.

[00:04:00.300 – 00:04:10.500] Well, then, as today, we had a radical element who thought that all of the paraphernalia of publicity should be used, which this country

[00:04:10.500 – 00:04:11.500] does so well.

[00:04:11.500 – 00:04:21.100] Uh, there was the other element who felt that there should be no organization whatever, uh, not even any service organization.

[00:04:21.100 – 00:04:31.100] They rather held to the view that meetings should be held in homes, uh, that, uh, we should have no money involved at all, excepting the fellow that

[00:04:31.100 – 00:04:38.300] put up the home and bought the coffee, and that that would be it, and that this word would pass quietly from one to the other.

[00:04:38.300 – 00:04:47.700] Well, both of these points of view, divergent as they were, uh, certainly had a tremendous appeal.

[00:04:47.700 – 00:04:55.100] I mean, the, the conservative view was one which involved taking no risks and progressing slowly.

[00:04:55.100 – 00:05:05.300] Uh, the radical view was in taking all the risks that, that there were with organization money and whatnot, and trying to circle the world

[00:05:05.300 – 00:05:07.700] in about eighty days with the AA message.

[00:05:07.700 – 00:05:17.400] Well, after vast amounts of wrangling and, uh, debating, we hit what is usually the middle course.

[00:05:17.400 – 00:05:24.700] And, uh, oh, I don’t know, I think one of those Greeks, uh, Aristotle, always, always talking about what he called middle way.

[00:05:24.700 – 00:05:30.800] And the middle way is something that, uh, we in AA have instinctively adopted.

[00:05:30.800 – 00:05:41.200] And it is very necessary in order to find the middle way that we have the radical group over here who would ruin you by doing everything,

[00:05:41.200 – 00:05:45.900] and the conservative group over here who would rot you by doing nothing.

[00:05:45.900 – 00:05:50.700] So that our service picture has evolved out of the middle way.

[00:05:50.700 – 00:06:00.600] And the middle way has been found by the hot debate which always comes along between these conservatives and radicals.

[00:06:00.600 – 00:06:09.900] And I feel that in general way, if we keep up this middle way with our concepts and our ideas of service action, we are going to do all right.

[00:06:09.900 – 00:06:17.600] Right in that original meeting in Akron, there were those who wanted the conservative way.

[00:06:17.600 – 00:06:25.200] I, at the time, uh, having a promotion and a Wall Street background, I fear I was pretty radical and pretty promotion-minded.

[00:06:25.200 – 00:06:29.500] We’d found an answer, and I was in a hell of a hurry to get it around the world.

[00:06:29.500 – 00:06:39.500] Well, the result of it was that, uh, the Akron meetings voted by a very small majority to send me back to New York,

[00:06:39.500 – 00:06:49.600] where there was a lot of money to raise the money if I thought it was necessary, and, uh, and to start up some sort of a foundation which would endow our workers and probably finance a

[00:06:49.600 – 00:06:59.700] string of hospitals because we’d already learned that hospitals weren’t very, uh, enthusiastic about drunks, and

[00:06:59.700 – 00:07:01.300] that we needed a book prepared.

[00:07:01.300 – 00:07:09.800] So I came back, and as you all know, there was very little luck in raising some money, but we did make some wonderful friends.

[00:07:09.800 – 00:07:17.500] This movement has always had the capability somehow, a very providential one, of attracting friends.

[00:07:17.500 – 00:07:27.500] Now then, I think it would be very in– perhaps helpful if I were to start, first of

[00:07:27.500 – 00:07:37.700] all, with the service function of a single group, the way it evolved, and then show you the parallel that exists between the way the group learned to function

[00:07:37.700 – 00:07:40.800] and how AA came to function as a whole.

[00:07:40.800 – 00:07:47.400] Because the basics are exactly the same, and there’s nothing like a picture to show you.

[00:07:47.400 – 00:07:51.100] So let me step over to the blackboard and give you a couple of illustrations.

[00:07:51.100 – 00:07:59.600] For those of you who have read AA Comes of Age, and have heard me talk before, this is old hat, but, uh, some of you might be newer than that.

[00:07:59.600 – 00:08:10.000] So, uh, let’s proceed with Joe Blow, who goes to Middletown, USA, and he’s alone, and he wants to start a group.

[00:08:10.000 – 00:08:18.700] Okay, uh, Joe canvasses the bars and the preachers and the doctors, and he gathers around him his first few comrades.

[00:08:18.700 – 00:08:23.100] Like so.

[00:08:23.100 – 00:08:28.900] Well, Joe, uh, Joe, he becomes a kind of a local founder, see?

[00:08:28.900 – 00:08:38.900] And, uh, these other fellows are his– no irreverence, uh, intended, but he’s kind

[00:08:38.900 – 00:08:40.800] of a pope, and here’s the College of Cardinals.

[00:08:40.800 – 00:08:46.800] So this is the original hierarchy of service.

[00:08:46.800 – 00:08:49.300] Like so.

[00:08:49.300 – 00:08:58.900] So these guys flatten out, and they bring in some more drunks, and these drunks begin to collect in the base of the pyramid.

[00:08:58.900 – 00:09:10.600] And this is just four of them.

[00:09:10.600 – 00:09:15.900] And some of these guys have gone eight holes even bigger than these guys.

[00:09:15.900 – 00:09:26.000] Now, at first, naturally, uh,

[00:09:26.000 – 00:09:28.800] the founder here, he sparks these guys.

[00:09:28.800 – 00:09:38.900] He instructs them on spiritual principles, and the meetings are all held in his house and all, and they got a little group going, and, uh, things are all right.

[00:09:38.900 – 00:09:49.400] And then this thing begins to grow, and they have to move out into a hall, and meanwhile, you see, these fellows here instruct

[00:09:49.400 – 00:09:54.100] this group spiritually, but they also perform a service.

[00:09:54.100 – 00:10:01.500] They hire the hall, and they see the local doctors and preachers, and they, they go to the newspaper

[00:10:01.600 – 00:10:11.700] Service gets the prospect so that this founding group or hierarchy instructs these people on spiritual

[00:10:11.700 – 00:10:14.300] principles, and these people become pretty service-minded.

[00:10:14.300 – 00:10:17.900] It can’t be any other way.

[00:10:17.900 – 00:10:20.500] It’s quite proper that it should be that way.

[00:10:20.500 – 00:10:31.500] So we see here is the hierarchy which instructs in spiritual matters and also conducts the services for the group.

[00:10:31.500 – 00:10:40.000] Now then, after this group grows bigger, we get a phenomenon something like that.

[00:10:40.000 – 00:10:45.700] It kind of butts on here, and this hierarchy gets moved over here.

[00:10:45.700 – 00:10:46.900] See?

[00:10:46.900 – 00:10:50.300] Either they walk over here or they get kicked over.

[00:10:50.300 – 00:11:01.100] And on top of the group, there, there, there is a circle formed, and this truncated

[00:11:01.100 – 00:11:07.700] pyramid with a circle on top is the typical symbol of AA structure.

[00:11:07.700 – 00:11:13.300] They’re all based on that diagram, every single one, ultimately in the final.

[00:11:13.300 – 00:11:18.500] Now this group at first may just have, uh, one guy or gal here.

[00:11:18.500 – 00:11:20.400] Small group’s got a secretary.

[00:11:20.400 – 00:11:25.500] But if they gotta pass the hat and handle much money, uh, by and by, they got a treasurer.

[00:11:25.500 – 00:11:29.900] And when it gets still bigger, maybe they got a chairman.

[00:11:29.900 – 00:11:35.800] So you see, here’s a familiar circle within the triangle representing the service.

[00:11:35.800 – 00:11:39.000] Now what’s become of these guys?

[00:11:39.000 – 00:11:41.500] Well, they divided into two parts.

[00:11:41.500 – 00:11:51.500] This part here are the elder statesmen who realize now that the current for the authority for the serve is coming up out of the group to

[00:11:51.500 – 00:11:56.000] instruct the committee instead of being– going down from here into the base.

[00:11:56.000 – 00:12:06.100] In other words, the current for service has been reversed, and therefore, this committee becomes strictly responsible to

[00:12:06.100 – 00:12:06.400] this.

[00:12:06.400 – 00:12:14.600] And I mean strictly responsible to the bunch of AAs in here who are paying the bills.

[00:12:14.600 – 00:12:20.000] And the committee can’t govern, and it can’t direct the way these people want it did.

[00:12:20.000 – 00:12:25.400] This becomes just a committee of service so this group can go on functioning.

[00:12:25.400 – 00:12:35.800] Now then, in actuality, this same thing occurs whether it’s an intergroup

[00:12:35.800 – 00:12:38.300] or whether it is a general service.

[00:12:38.300 – 00:12:40.800] Exactly the same thing happens.

[00:12:40.800 – 00:12:52.000] The diagram may look a little complicated, but the principle’s just the same.

[00:12:52.000 – 00:12:58.400] Now here was the original service layout.

[00:12:58.400 – 00:13:06.900] Here was Dr.

[00:13:06.900 – 00:13:08.500] Bob, and here was me.

[00:13:08.500 – 00:13:11.000] Kind of a double-headed job.

[00:13:11.000 – 00:13:19.900] And he and I get talking together, and we say, “Somehow, this great world of AA that lies out here has got to be reached.

[00:13:19.900 – 00:13:24.200] Somehow, this message has to be carried.

[00:13:24.200 – 00:13:25.300] How are we gonna do it?

[00:13:25.300 – 00:13:36.200] Well, missionaries maybe, hospitals maybe, a book for sure, and later on, probably an office where we can receive inquiries.” We conceived this in 1937.

[00:13:36.200 – 00:13:43.100] Well, a lot of people didn’t see it, and there was a lot of rough sailing about the book and the missionaries and the hospitals.

[00:13:43.100 – 00:13:48.500] Thank God we never got to the missionaries and the hospitals.

[00:13:48.500 – 00:13:48.600] We just did the book.

[00:13:48.600 – 00:13:50.200] So Dr.

[00:13:50.200 – 00:13:54.000] Bob and I look up some friends.

[00:13:54.000 – 00:13:56.800] In this case, they had to be non-alcoholics.

[00:13:56.800 – 00:14:01.400] There was my brother-in-law and, uh, dear old Dick Wilson.

[00:14:01.400 – 00:14:05.000] You find him at the Rock Fellas and Frank Aamen from Leroy Sherman.

[00:14:05.000 – 00:14:11.500] And we go to these people and say, “Listen, we’ve gotta have some kind of a service set up for AA.

[00:14:11.500 – 00:14:20.500] We need these things, and this is gonna take some money.” So they formed themselves into a committee.

[00:14:20.500 – 00:14:26.600] The next step is the committee, like so.

[00:14:26.600 – 00:14:35.400] And on this committee, there are these three of those fellas, I think, at first.

[00:14:35.400 – 00:14:36.000] And there was Dr.

[00:14:36.000 – 00:14:40.200] Bob and one drunk in New York who finally got drunk.

[00:14:40.200 – 00:14:50.400] This was the committee to help AA fund, and the purpose of this committee was to raise the wall to get the money together so we could

[00:14:50.400 – 00:14:52.600] put a book together, the AA book.

[00:14:52.600 – 00:15:00.900] Uh, this committee wanted to provide an office, um, and do these things.

[00:15:00.900 – 00:15:04.500] Well, this committee didn’t raise any money.

[00:15:04.500 – 00:15:14.500] So we thought that if we incorporated the committee, I’m showing this by set, we’d have something called the

[00:15:14.500 – 00:15:16.200] Alcoholic Foundation.

[00:15:16.200 – 00:15:26.500] So we put these gents on trustees, and this was incorporated

[00:15:26.500 – 00:15:30.700] for two purposes: so that they could better handle money, and we thought we needed a lot.

[00:15:30.700 – 00:15:36.900] It was also, uh, incorporated to fix the ratio.

[00:15:36.900 – 00:15:46.800] We thought we needed more non-drunks on this particular thing because it was gonna handle quite a lot of money, and this one drunk was already too much.

[00:15:46.800 – 00:15:56.700] So we get– also that this foundation would be tax-free for the rich to pour it to always, see?

[00:15:56.700 – 00:16:01.400] So we get together this foundation, and this is now about the spring of 1938.

[00:16:01.400 – 00:16:09.800] So we go out soliciting dollars for the foundation, and we don’t get it in spite of these wonderful connections.

[00:16:09.800 – 00:16:13.500] Well, still we gotta function somehow.

[00:16:13.500 – 00:16:16.600] We just gotta function somehow.

[00:16:16.600 – 00:16:22.500] So we organized something over here called Work Publishing Company.

[00:16:22.500 – 00:16:33.500] And we began to sell shares in that to any drunks or their friends who would buy them, and this was the original book company, which was separately

[00:16:33.500 – 00:16:38.800] incorporated, see, and which finally came up with the book, Alcoholics Anonymous.

[00:16:38.800 – 00:16:48.800] But we soon realized that these shares we had, uh, sold to people, and the third interest that I had given myself, and the third

[00:16:48.800 – 00:16:56.200] interest that another fellow had, really ought to belong to this because this is beginning to be regarded as a trusteeship for all of the AA.

[00:16:56.200 – 00:17:06.400] So the fellows that paid money in to Work Publishing to get the book done and held stock in the firm, they gave their stock

[00:17:06.400 – 00:17:09.400] to the foundation, and so did my partner and I.

[00:17:09.400 – 00:17:16.500] And pretty soon we had something here called Work Publishing.

[00:17:16.500 – 00:17:26.900] Now then, as we got publicity that this book began to move, and as we got publicity,

[00:17:26.900 – 00:17:29.500] a hell of a lot of inquiries came in here.

[00:17:29.500 – 00:17:36.300] So this, this thing which was the book company also became an AA office.

[00:17:36.300 – 00:17:41.300] Financed up until nineteen hundred and forty-one out of the proceeds of selling the book.

[00:17:41.300 – 00:17:42.600] Didn’t have any other ones.

[00:17:42.600 – 00:17:52.800] So then this trusteeship later on over here in left field, there was something organized called

[00:17:52.800 – 00:17:53.700] the Grapevine.

[00:17:53.700 – 00:18:04.700] And the people who organized that said, “Let’s stick it on here because it’s taken on nationally.” So

[00:18:04.700 – 00:18:14.700] what we really had was a, just a group of services, which because we were handling more money

[00:18:14.700 – 00:18:20.300] and because we had these activities of the AA office, the publishing company, and the Grapevine.

[00:18:20.300 – 00:18:30.400] But still, here was Mithy and me, and here were our friends, and here was a legal corporation, uh, which looked after

[00:18:30.400 – 00:18:33.400] publishing the AA office and the magazine.

[00:18:33.400 – 00:18:34.900] Same thing, of course.

[00:18:34.900 – 00:18:36.800] Here’s your triangle of service.

[00:18:36.800 – 00:18:37.800] It’s a hierarchy.

[00:18:37.800 – 00:18:40.400] We are a law unto ourselves.

[00:18:40.400 – 00:18:46.200] We’re not responsible to the AA movement except as we wish to make ourselves responsible.

[00:18:46.200 – 00:18:51.800] We’re chartered to do anything but lobby for prohibition.

[00:18:51.800 – 00:18:55.000] Okay.

[00:18:55.000 – 00:18:58.300] So same phenomenon.

[00:18:58.300 – 00:19:02.300] Here’s AA growing worldwide like so.

[00:19:02.300 – 00:19:11.600] Same deal, you see.

[00:19:11.600 – 00:19:15.500] Around in here, there’s a hell of a lot of complaint about this.

[00:19:15.500 – 00:19:17.800] We ain’t got nothing to say about it.

[00:19:17.800 – 00:19:19.000] It’s a rant.

[00:19:19.000 – 00:19:26.000] Still, we have these gals who serve tea and get a hell of a lot of pay.

[00:19:26.000 – 00:19:30.000] We got these trustees nobody ever saw or heard of.

[00:19:30.000 – 00:19:32.600] And we’re only …

[00:19:32.600 – 00:19:41.700] Yeah, we’ve sent in some dough, and this book admittedly cost too much money, and this is a little, somewhat better than nothing, but we’re, we’re displaced.

[00:19:41.700 – 00:19:46.300] Same kind of deal with some dozens of those groups itself.

[00:19:46.300 – 00:19:49.100] Same deal.

[00:19:49.100 – 00:19:51.500] Now, Dr.

[00:19:51.500 – 00:19:58.600] Bob gets sick and is about to go out of the picture.

[00:19:58.600 – 00:20:02.100] He’s done.

[00:20:03.600 – 00:20:13.900] Between this situation and the group or the Intergroup is that this whole business averaged to be one thousand five hundred miles away from the people that we serve.

[00:20:13.900 – 00:20:16.700] This serves the world.

[00:20:16.700 – 00:20:24.600] So if this thing collapsed, how would this great mass of a hundred or two hundred thousand people ever get it going?

[00:20:24.600 – 00:20:27.000] Dr.

[00:20:27.000 – 00:20:31.900] Bob and I and a few of the gals here in the office were the chief link.

[00:20:31.900 – 00:20:42.200] There wasn’t one AA in the South at the time who could have named even half the trustees, which by this time has run up to ten,

[00:20:42.200 – 00:20:44.000] and today stand at fifteen.

[00:20:44.000 – 00:20:54.100] So we simply had to make ourselves here responsible to the movement

[00:20:54.100 – 00:21:04.400] and get communication with them, and that meant that the movement had to have something to say about who was going to be on here,

[00:21:04.400 – 00:21:06.300] and there had to be some kind of a meeting.

[00:21:06.300 – 00:21:18.800] So we said, “All right.” Here comes the familiar circle sitting on top

[00:21:18.800 – 00:21:19.700] of the pyramid.

[00:21:19.700 – 00:21:28.300] And this circle are the seventy-five delegates selected from English town, and here is your General Service Conference with its related service.

[00:21:28.300 – 00:21:37.300] And the authority that once came down from here to serve you and to instruct you now began to come up from the bottom.

[00:21:37.300 – 00:21:42.200] And we got that going just as Dr.

[00:21:42.200 – 00:21:52.700] Bob died, and I think just about in time, because if a few more of us old-timers had passed off the scene, uh,

[00:21:52.700 – 00:21:59.000] and something had gone wrong here, these people here would have lost confidence, this thing would have collapsed.

[00:21:59.000 – 00:22:09.400] Now, this thing, of course, I’m probably biased because the last fifteen years of my life have gone almost entirely into the formation

[00:22:09.400 – 00:22:11.000] of these structural things.

[00:22:11.000 – 00:22:21.400] But I think I can say without hesitation that much of our unity, and maybe half of AA’s stock, is directly attributable

[00:22:21.400 – 00:22:28.300] to this activity, an activity which today is still little known to the average AA out in the group.

[00:22:28.300 – 00:22:35.800] The conference has made vast strides in informing and instructing people what it is.

[00:22:35.800 – 00:22:46.200] And as you know, in July of nineteen fifty-five, on behalf of the old-timers, uh, I talked myself out

[00:22:46.200 – 00:22:46.800] almost.

[00:22:46.800 – 00:22:51.900] And said, “Look, this is yours.

[00:22:51.900 – 00:23:00.500] You got it.” So you people here now have this through the authority of your conference and have it in the whole.

[00:23:00.500 – 00:23:03.000] Don’t you see it’s the same basic idea?

[00:23:03.000 – 00:23:05.900] Now let’s see how an Intergroup starts.

[00:23:05.900 – 00:23:09.000] Take one around here I want to know a little bit about.

[00:23:09.000 – 00:23:26.100] Well,

[00:23:26.100 – 00:23:27.300] we start off this way.

[00:23:27.300 – 00:23:31.000] First, we got a club out of it, and that’s an incorporation.

[00:23:31.000 – 00:23:35.700] And that’s where all the meetings were held here in town.

[00:23:35.700 – 00:23:45.700] And they got a board of directors in, uh, who were in, I guess, for as long as they wanted to be, and they were handpicked in their statues,

[00:23:45.700 – 00:23:52.800] and they ran the club, and the proceeds of the hat went into the club treasury.

[00:23:52.800 – 00:24:02.900] And the club had a telephone, and calls for help came

[00:24:02.900 – 00:24:04.700] to this club.

[00:24:04.700 – 00:24:10.800] Well, after a while, the club got too small, so we got a bigger club.

[00:24:10.800 – 00:24:14.800] This one would seat a thousand people.

[00:24:14.800 – 00:24:24.100] They had a restaurant over there that sold so many steaks for one dollar that cost two dollars that they ran up a seven-thousand-dollar deficit.

[00:24:24.100 – 00:24:28.400] And had its troubles, as clubs will.

[00:24:28.400 – 00:24:33.100] But in this club was a telephone, and the telephone was a connection with the area.

[00:24:33.100 – 00:24:43.300] So very naturally, the authorities in the club said, “Well, now look, this is an area service this club is

[00:24:43.300 – 00:24:53.300] performing, so once you people in this area contribute dues or contribute or make voluntary contributions, rather, to the

[00:24:53.300 – 00:25:01.400] club, a part of which we will allocate to this expense.” Well, we tried and we tried and we tried to do this.

[00:25:01.400 – 00:25:11.500] And every time the, the club hollered for money, we were quick to maintain an Intergroup secretary because this was what was beginning

[00:25:11.500 – 00:25:12.300] to happen.

[00:25:12.300 – 00:25:16.700] Everybody around town thought of them damn steaks.

[00:25:16.700 – 00:25:20.100] And they couldn’t get it supported.

[00:25:20.100 – 00:25:29.100] Well, then I, at the time, had a lot of energy and was active and nosy, too, and wanted to get a finger in all the pie.

[00:25:29.100 – 00:25:32.600] Me, I, I started to try to start an Intergroup.

[00:25:32.600 – 00:25:34.800] Nothing doing.

[00:25:34.800 – 00:25:43.100] Nothing happened at all until we got this lady out of, out of the club entirely.

[00:25:43.100 – 00:25:48.300] The club got erased entirely and broke up into smaller clubs.

[00:25:48.300 – 00:25:50.000] I’m not running down clubs, you understand.

[00:25:50.000 – 00:25:52.200] I’m just showing how it was here.

[00:25:52.200 – 00:26:02.300] And then came along some guys like Hank, who you know so well, and Fred Mayer

[00:26:02.300 – 00:26:10.200] group, and, uh, they were younger and much more active than us mossbacks, and they didn’t have any boundary father complex.

[00:26:10.200 – 00:26:20.200] And they said to this area, “Look, for God’s sake, in a place as big as New York, we’ve got to have a place where the telephones can

[00:26:20.200 – 00:26:30.200] be answered and where we can attend to people who are in distress and relate them to the hospital and carry on an overall service

[00:26:30.200 – 00:26:33.100] for this whole area, because now it’s just an avenue.

[00:26:33.100 – 00:26:36.100] You want to do business, you locate that within the club.

[00:26:36.100 – 00:26:47.300] So let’s get a, a, uh, an, an office, and let each group in this area name a representative, and

[00:26:47.300 – 00:26:57.400] we will act temporarily as your committee.” As usual, Fred and Hank and sort of three more set them up,

[00:26:57.400 – 00:27:01.100] filled up with the typical hierarchy that were going to start it.

[00:27:01.100 – 00:27:04.800] And then sure enough, they, they got an office.

[00:27:04.800 – 00:27:14.800] And then these guys went around to every group in the area and said, “Will you support this, providing, and we’ll agree to move

[00:27:14.800 – 00:27:25.100] out of the way, and you people take control.” So this was the first setup,

[00:27:25.100 – 00:27:27.500] and then here was the New York area.

[00:27:27.500 – 00:27:31.700] And instead of this being four individuals, it got very four groups.

[00:27:31.700 – 00:27:39.400] So the group representatives from here met in a meeting.

[00:27:39.400 – 00:27:46.400] Same idea, which has included this committee.

[00:27:46.400 – 00:27:56.500] And the rule was that they could– that this committee would offer to the area new

[00:27:56.500 – 00:28:01.000] names for memberships on this rotating committee, which is now the Conference Committee.

[00:28:01.000 – 00:28:09.200] For election by the group representatives from the area.

[00:28:09.200 – 00:28:11.500] I think that was the original deal.

[00:28:11.500 – 00:28:21.600] But it was thoroughly understood that if this committee, which had started all this and got it in motion and got it financially supported and attracted groups,

[00:28:21.600 – 00:28:30.100] uh, the delegates meeting together, if they didn’t like the nominations of this committee, the nominations could come from the floor.

[00:28:30.100 – 00:28:40.900] And therefore, it was a balance between the straight up town meeting democracy of a, uh, single group

[00:28:40.900 – 00:28:47.100] and the semi-hierarchical situation that we have now with the Conference Committee today.

[00:28:47.100 – 00:28:50.800] In other words, this was not only a democracy.

[00:28:50.800 – 00:28:59.200] The fact that these people could, could nominate for election gave it a widely republican structure.

[00:28:59.200 – 00:29:01.400] I don’t mean republican in a party sense.

[00:29:01.400 – 00:29:07.400] I mean in the sense that these people could name their successors if they were elected.

[00:29:07.400 – 00:29:08.700] That was the proposition.

[00:29:08.700 – 00:29:10.100] In other words, that was the balance.

[00:29:10.100 – 00:29:14.700] And I think that basically that is the situation here.

[00:29:14.700 – 00:29:18.800] And you see, it’s, it’s the same thing.

[00:29:18.800 – 00:29:21.200] Every time it’s a question of A.A.

[00:29:21.200 – 00:29:27.700] service, there’s always the, the element structure like that.

[00:29:27.700 – 00:29:35.200] Here is your committee, and here are the active elements in it.

[00:29:35.200 – 00:29:41.800] These may be C4, this might be a foundation, this a publishing company or whatever.

[00:29:41.800 – 00:29:43.700] The principle is exactly the same.

[00:29:43.700 – 00:29:54.100] It’ll take all the starts down from the do-it-now boys and the self-starters that get this thing going, and then it will work itself from the top.

[00:29:54.100 – 00:29:56.500] And those are the basics of A.A.

[00:29:56.500 – 00:29:59.100] service as far as I can see from top to bottom.

[00:29:59.100 – 00:30:04.500] Now, in the course of these experiments-

[00:30:04.700 – 00:30:14.800] This week we have had as groups, and which we have had as Intergroup, and which we’ve had as Foundation, uh,

[00:30:14.800 – 00:30:17.800] several very fundamental things, uh, stand out.

[00:30:17.800 – 00:30:22.500] In the first place– Oh, I’m treading on the mic.

[00:30:22.500 – 00:30:30.600] There were certain fundamental lessons that we learned, uh, through a lot of grief.

[00:30:30.600 – 00:30:40.700] For example, we found that the conduct of an AA office, an Intergroup office, or

[00:30:40.700 – 00:30:44.200] the world office was not entirely a business.

[00:30:44.200 – 00:30:48.800] To be true, it had to be run on business-like lines.

[00:30:48.800 – 00:30:55.100] Uh, to be, uh, it had to have that kind of a discipline.

[00:30:55.100 – 00:31:02.100] But after all, we were all in a club, and it was al- so it also became an art.

[00:31:02.100 – 00:31:12.400] And we found, particularly with these world services, that it was a, a great trick not to divide people into two sharply defined

[00:31:12.400 – 00:31:13.200] classes.

[00:31:13.200 – 00:31:24.200] For example, you can have a management committee for an Intergroup office, and then you can have a gal or two working there, or a guy, but

[00:31:24.200 – 00:31:28.300] please let this gal or guy sit on the committee as a minority.

[00:31:28.300 – 00:31:38.400] Don’t make a committee which is giving directives often to those who know better, who, because they are hired hands, aren’t supposed to have

[00:31:38.400 – 00:31:38.900] a vote.

[00:31:38.900 – 00:31:43.500] I think it’s important that those people have a vote.

[00:31:43.500 – 00:31:50.000] We found that so in our affairs at the Foundation, and I think Intergroups in general are finding it out.

[00:31:50.000 – 00:32:01.000] Another thing that we learned the, the hard way was the idea of giving very thorough financial accounts, uh,

[00:32:01.000 – 00:32:07.800] of making our affairs completely open to anyone who wanted to take a little bit of trouble to find out.

[00:32:07.800 – 00:32:11.200] Those were some of the basics.

[00:32:11.200 – 00:32:21.500] Uh, we found, too, that you had to define functions and jobs and put proper

[00:32:21.500 – 00:32:31.800] names on them so that people knew what was expected of them, so that their responsibility and their authority were always equal,

[00:32:31.800 – 00:32:41.800] so that you didn’t have all of the authority over here and all of the responsibility over there, so that you didn’t get two-headed management and all of

[00:32:41.800 – 00:32:43.200] that sort of business.

[00:32:43.200 – 00:32:45.600] Okay.

[00:32:45.600 – 00:32:52.300] Now, I guess that’s about all I’ve got to say in a general way about these things.

[00:32:52.300 – 00:32:58.300] Now, there may be specific questions, and, uh, I’m supposed to wind up this in about ten minutes.

[00:32:58.300 – 00:33:01.300] Uh, fire away now.

[00:33:01.300 – 00:33:04.200] Uh, not that I can answer these.

[00:33:04.200 – 00:33:10.000] Sometimes the longer I’m mixed up with this service business, the less I’m sure I know about it.

[00:33:10.000 – 00:33:15.000] But I’ll make some kind of answers to most questions, I think.

[00:33:15.000 – 00:33:16.300] Yeah.

[00:33:16.300 – 00:33:24.500] Bill, in, uh, your description of that one triangle, you give us an account of what happens to the one half, but you forgot the other.

[00:33:24.500 – 00:33:25.900] What happened to the other, the other half?

[00:33:25.900 – 00:33:29.900] Oh, the other half that moved off to the side who helped start the thing.

[00:33:29.900 – 00:33:33.200] Well, they get sore, and they stay sore.

[00:33:33.200 – 00:33:43.400] And they get– And actually, uh, that– I mean, the deacons abdicating

[00:33:43.400 – 00:33:46.400] and moving off to the side voluntarily.

[00:33:46.400 – 00:33:56.700] If they do that, and they have done a good job, and they have the longer experience, and, uh, they have the confidence of people, actually,

[00:33:56.700 – 00:34:01.900] the deacons who do the job in that fashion become sort of elder statesmen.

[00:34:01.900 – 00:34:10.400] And when the group goes into trouble, they go and say, “Well, John, you s- you used to serve on this committee, and you’ve seen a lot more of this stuff, and we’re having one hell of a time.

[00:34:10.400 – 00:34:20.400] What’s your private advice?” The other half go around and usually try to get reelected to, uh, reinstate their power and

[00:34:20.400 – 00:34:20.800] so on.

[00:34:20.800 – 00:34:22.300] They become the bleeding deacons.

[00:34:22.300 – 00:34:26.500] And it’s actually a part of our spiritual growing up.

[00:34:26.500 – 00:34:29.800] I mean, this ability to bow down and to bow out.

[00:34:29.800 – 00:34:39.800] And in that connection, I might say that a first step, certainly, and a very big one, was taken as far as we very old

[00:34:39.800 – 00:34:44.400] mossbacks in AA are concerned at nineteen hundred and fifty-five in St.

[00:34:44.400 – 00:34:44.900] Louis.

[00:34:44.900 – 00:34:49.300] We know that death, illness, sometimes we’re going to get credited.

[00:34:49.300 – 00:34:52.500] In one way or another, we must pass off the scene.

[00:34:52.500 – 00:35:00.200] And nineteen fifty-five was a sign and a token to you that we were not being kicked off the scene.

[00:35:00.200 – 00:35:04.900] We were walking off and saying, “Look, you grew up, and you got it.

[00:35:04.900 – 00:35:14.100] If, if rotating leadership is so damn good for younger people, it’s also good here, too.” And I really mean, so far as I’m concerned, to put it into effect.

[00:35:14.100 – 00:35:24.200] I only want to do a few more chores with respect to world services to get out this manual and maybe to help the grapevine get in a little better

[00:35:24.200 – 00:35:24.700] shape.

[00:35:24.700 – 00:35:27.200] And then I’m saying, “Look, this is yours.

[00:35:27.200 – 00:35:28.300] Here is the machine.

[00:35:28.300 – 00:35:38.700] If cracks, flaws appear in the machinery that we haven’t anticipated, if you need me for some job like that, I’ll come back and play elder statesman

[00:35:38.700 – 00:35:39.300] a little while.

[00:35:39.300 – 00:35:41.300] But basically, it’s all yours.

[00:35:41.300 – 00:35:42.200] You finance it.

[00:35:42.200 – 00:35:44.200] You determine its policy.

[00:35:44.200 – 00:35:45.700] It’s yours.

[00:35:45.700 – 00:35:51.700] It belongs to this movement.” Now, what became of these fellows that griped?

[00:35:51.700 – 00:35:57.700] Well, some got drunk, and some became elder statesmen after, uh, learning the hard way.

[00:35:57.700 – 00:35:58.900] That’s the answer to that.

[00:35:58.900 – 00:36:04.500] I’ve learned the hard way, I might add.

[00:36:04.500 – 00:36:10.400] Well, let’s have some more questions.

[00:36:10.400 – 00:36:11.400] Yeah.

[00:36:11.400 – 00:36:18.600] Can you draw any lines between the services of Intergroup and the General Service center?

[00:36:18.600 – 00:36:20.200] Well, that’s a good question.

[00:36:20.200 – 00:36:30.400] Um, a lot of people felt, and I was inclined to think, well, now here, in a hell of a lot of these areas, we’ve got, uh, you know,

[00:36:30.400 – 00:36:31.900] good, strong Intergroup.

[00:36:31.900 – 00:36:38.800] Uh, you got experienced people who have dealt with services, proved their capabilities.

[00:36:38.800 – 00:36:48.900] So why don’t we, uh, either dissipate the General Services throughout the Intergroups and make them pick up parts

[00:36:48.900 – 00:36:49.100] of it?

[00:36:49.100 – 00:36:50.500] That’s one concept.

[00:36:50.500 – 00:37:00.800] Or the other is, why don’t the same people or the same organization, the, the Intergroup organization, nominate

[00:37:00.800 – 00:37:11.100] delegates for New York, and why doesn’t the local Intergroup pick up funds which it, after it has satisfied its own needs,

[00:37:11.100 – 00:37:12.400] passes on to New York?

[00:37:12.400 – 00:37:20.200] Well, uh, it’s, it’s a good deal like trying to mix, uh, of course, we’re not a governmental organization in any way.

[00:37:20.200 – 00:37:21.400] This is a service thing.

[00:37:21.400 – 00:37:31.500] But it’s a good deal like, uh, saying to the, the governor of the state of New York, “Well, now you’ve got a fine old state here, my friend, and there’s a lot of dough here, and

[00:37:31.500 – 00:37:33.800] I’m the federal tax collector.

[00:37:33.800 – 00:37:42.500] But you collect the taxes, and when you have spent all you need to spend on New York, send the rest to Washington.” Well, it don’t get there.

[00:37:42.500 – 00:37:43.800] See?

[00:37:43.800 – 00:37:47.400] And we found out, we found that to be a fact in our own affairs.

[00:37:47.400 – 00:37:50.300] That’s one reason why it won’t overlap.

[00:37:50.300 – 00:38:00.300] Another reason why it won’t overlap is this: that the activities of an Intergroup have to do with the immediate contact with the

[00:38:00.300 – 00:38:01.800] guy in crying need.

[00:38:01.800 – 00:38:10.600] And that’s the sort of an activity that a fellow who has been from six months to six years functions best.

[00:38:10.600 – 00:38:11.600] You see?

[00:38:11.600 – 00:38:21.600] Now, very often, though, th-th-th-this type of thing that we have here, which means publishing of literature, handling of policy, handling of public

[00:38:21.600 – 00:38:31.600] relations, group relations, translations, magazines, and all that kind of thing, there, the older and more experienced heads bolt on your foundations,

[00:38:31.600 – 00:38:34.000] and your, your delegates become of more value.

[00:38:34.000 – 00:38:39.700] And if you try to perform both functions, you’re bound to get schizophrenia.

[00:38:39.700 – 00:38:44.500] Supposing that I’m very active in Intergroup affairs here in New York.

[00:38:44.500 – 00:38:47.000] I’ve got all I can do.

[00:38:47.000 – 00:38:53.500] And I’m interested in hospital hookups and in keeping that Intergroup supported.

[00:38:53.500 – 00:38:56.800] Uh, I’m interested in the management of that office.

[00:38:56.800 – 00:39:04.600] How in God’s name can I, at the same time, uh, do much of a job for General Service?

[00:39:04.600 – 00:39:12.600] When I’m done with my Intergroup job, then I’m a wonderful prospect, you see, to do something else.

[00:39:12.600 – 00:39:15.000] But the jobs are dissimilar.

[00:39:15.000 – 00:39:17.900] Uh, the age brackets in A.A.

[00:39:17.900 – 00:39:18.700] of the people.

[00:39:18.700 – 00:39:28.700] The, the real young eager beaver can do a wonderful job around an Intergroup, whereas he don’t necessarily walk into the General Service picture and do a job because he isn’t mature

[00:39:28.700 – 00:39:31.700] enough yet A.A.-wise and A.A.

[00:39:31.700 – 00:39:32.900] business-wise.

[00:39:32.900 – 00:39:33.600] Is that clear?

[00:39:33.600 – 00:39:42.200] Well, let’s have another one.

[00:39:42.200 – 00:39:45.300] Guess it must be all over.

[00:39:45.300 – 00:39:51.000] Bill, um, is it feasible– I understand what you’re saying- Yeah.

[00:39:51.000 – 00:39:53.800] -about the similarity of jobs and age brackets.

[00:39:53.800 – 00:40:01.600] Is it technically feasible anywhere to have GSC office and Intergroup, I mean, same roof, but separate entities?

[00:40:01.600 – 00:40:03.700] There’s an office .

[00:40:03.700 – 00:40:06.000] Well, of course, you mustn’t think

[00:40:06.200 – 00:40:16.200] Anything I’ve said that is, is absolute, uh, gospel, I mean, there are none of these, uh, attitudes and ideas that don’t have some elasticity

[00:40:16.200 – 00:40:16.900] in them.

[00:40:16.900 – 00:40:27.100] I don’t mean to say for one minute that a guy who is interested in intergroup at home shouldn’t make a hell of a good delegate down here, or, uh, that,

[00:40:27.100 – 00:40:32.300] uh, that, that there shouldn’t be an interlo-locking of the local state committees.

[00:40:32.300 – 00:40:40.300] I can imagine a good state committeeman, uh, maybe also, uh, happens to be very interested in the local intergroup.

[00:40:40.300 – 00:40:50.700] But the organization, the direct responsibility, uh, has to go from the group to the intergroup, and then from the group to the foundation.

[00:40:50.700 – 00:41:00.900] And if you try to route the, the line of responsibility through the intergroup and then to the foundation, uh, you’re getting

[00:41:00.900 – 00:41:10.900] people who are trying to handle very dissimilar affairs, and they’re very naturally– If I’m intensely interested in intergroup association, and the dough is kind of

[00:41:10.900 – 00:41:20.900] scarce, me, I’m going to I’m going to get that dough in that intergroup association, and that New York deal is swell, but it’s a long way off, and some of the other

[00:41:20.900 – 00:41:22.300] boys will take care of that.

[00:41:22.300 – 00:41:26.500] So let’s tend to the home need, which, uh, within limits, is good philosophy.

[00:41:26.500 – 00:41:33.700] On the other hand, if I’m a general service guy, pure and simple, if I’ve had this prior experience, all the better.

[00:41:33.700 – 00:41:36.400] I’m interested in general service, you see?

[00:41:36.400 – 00:41:46.600] Now, your question as to whether you can have the two offices side by side, I think they’re side by side, but this is fine, so long as you don’t try

[00:41:46.600 – 00:41:48.400] to actually merge them.

[00:41:48.400 – 00:41:52.300] It’s a good deal like it used to be in the old days.

[00:41:52.300 – 00:42:02.800] The club membership and the group membership was one and the same thing, but running a clubhouse and operating a group were two very dissimilar

[00:42:02.800 – 00:42:03.600] things.

[00:42:03.600 – 00:42:08.300] So when you tried to merge the two under the same management, the whole thing got schizophrenia.

[00:42:08.300 – 00:42:11.300] Well, it’s like that with general service and intergroup.

[00:42:11.300 – 00:42:21.300] It, they basically ought to be separately organized and separately financed, although the same people can obviously be interested in both up to a point.

[00:42:21.300 – 00:42:23.000] Yeah.

[00:42:23.000 – 00:42:33.000] When you’re talking about general service to an individual that belongs to the school of thought, “Keep it simple,” what do you come back with ?

[00:42:33.000 – 00:42:43.100] I come b- I, I come, I come back always with this idea, that I hope and believe that I’m one of the greatest advocates of simplicity in this world.

[00:42:43.100 – 00:42:50.600] And it all depends on what you mean, simplicity.

[00:42:50.600 – 00:42:52.700] What does the word mean applied to AA?

[00:42:52.700 – 00:43:02.800] In other words, you could have kept it simple in one sense of the word if we’d allowed this

[00:43:02.800 – 00:43:05.200] thing to spread from mouth to mouth.

[00:43:05.200 – 00:43:13.200] If there’d been no services, if there’d been no literature, some people consider that to be simplicity.

[00:43:13.200 – 00:43:21.600] Well, there is a, such a thing as simplifying to the point where it becomes ruined.

[00:43:21.600 – 00:43:25.400] In other words, the virtue turns around and becomes a vice.

[00:43:25.400 – 00:43:36.000] In other words, if you oversimplify an automobile by leaving off the tires, and you run it a while on the rim, you haven’t got simplicity

[00:43:36.000 – 00:43:36.400] at all.

[00:43:36.400 – 00:43:37.900] You’ve got a busted automobile.

[00:43:37.900 – 00:43:38.500] Huh?

[00:43:38.500 – 00:43:48.700] Now, on the other hand, uh, this idea that, uh, we have got to have great big sums of money and governments

[00:43:48.700 – 00:43:54.400] and, uh, big bureaucratic staff and all that sort of thing, that makes for complication.

[00:43:54.400 – 00:44:04.700] So therefore, we carefully organize our services so as to make for simplicity of operation and effectiveness.

[00:44:04.700 – 00:44:09.800] If we over-organize them, that causes confusion.

[00:44:09.800 – 00:44:16.500] If we don’t have any and don’t properly finance them and organize them, then we got an anarchy, and that’s confusion.

[00:44:16.500 – 00:44:22.900] So that actually, the service organization is for the purpose of keeping this thing both simple and effective.

[00:44:22.900 – 00:44:27.400] If you underdo it, it’s ineffective, and it ain’t simple.

[00:44:27.400 – 00:44:30.700] If you overdo it, it’s just as confusing.

[00:44:30.700 – 00:44:37.100] So it’s the middle ground where the biggest simplicity is for us, we hope.

[00:44:37.100 – 00:44:39.500] Yes, darling.

[00:44:39.500 – 00:44:46.400] brings twelve step houses and family residential operating.

[00:44:46.400 – 00:44:50.000] How can that, uh, be helpful in that ?

[00:44:50.000 – 00:44:60.000] Well, uh, there, uh, you get into this question of, uh, things that are not of AA but are of necessity

[00:44:60.000 – 00:45:01.100] closely related.

[00:45:01.100 – 00:45:06.100] As a matter of fact, we’ve got, we’ve got things which are strictly AA.

[00:45:06.100 – 00:45:14.000] Intergroup services, general services, services at the group level, strictly AA.

[00:45:14.000 – 00:45:19.400] Then you’ve got the type of service or facility that you might call a club.

[00:45:19.400 – 00:45:28.400] And every damn member is in AA, but years ago, we began to see that you mustn’t mix running clubs with running AA groups.

[00:45:28.400 – 00:45:38.600] So we advocated that those things be separately incor-incorporated and the AA name taken off them so that they stood or fell and became

[00:45:38.600 – 00:45:41.700] the function of interested individuals.

[00:45:41.700 – 00:45:51.700] And it didn’t spoil an AA’s membership because he went to a club or belonged to a club or paid dues, but he couldn’t go out and, and stump the tub for

[00:45:51.700 – 00:45:55.100] the club, uh, by the use of the AA name.

[00:45:55.100 – 00:45:56.700] This was a private affair.

[00:45:56.700 – 00:46:03.700] Now then, we have had the same experience with these close-in facilities with this family group situation.

[00:46:03.700 – 00:46:08.500] When this thing started, some of us liked it very much, and some of us thought it was god-awful.

[00:46:08.500 – 00:46:19.200] But exactly like the club- It got very evident that we were going to have these family groups around whether we drunks liked it or not, just

[00:46:19.200 – 00:46:22.500] as we found that we were going to have clubs whether we liked it or not.

[00:46:22.500 – 00:46:25.600] So it wasn’t a question of whether you were going to have them.

[00:46:25.600 – 00:46:26.800] What were you going to do with them?

[00:46:26.800 – 00:46:32.000] Well, the same as with the club.

[00:46:32.000 – 00:46:33.700] You’re closed in.

[00:46:33.700 – 00:46:35.100] You’re our family.

[00:46:35.100 – 00:46:37.000] You ought to benefit by this thing.

[00:46:37.000 – 00:46:42.000] But set this up, separately incorporate it, keep the A.A.

[00:46:42.000 – 00:46:45.600] name out of it, and things will be fine.

[00:46:45.600 – 00:46:49.600] And so the clubs have found their proper niche in relation.

[00:46:49.600 – 00:46:50.900] So the family group.

[00:46:50.900 – 00:46:59.100] Now you take one step a little further outside A.A., and you come to this question of education with it.

[00:46:59.100 – 00:47:09.300] Well, the foundation, that original committee of friends, a few drunks, was chartered

[00:47:09.300 – 00:47:13.600] to educate, to research, as I say, to do everything but lobby for prohibition.

[00:47:13.600 – 00:47:19.500] We really thought that A.A., you know, should try to be all things to all people.

[00:47:19.500 – 00:47:22.700] And therefore, we ought to have an A.A.

[00:47:22.700 – 00:47:24.400] brand of education and an A.A.

[00:47:24.400 – 00:47:27.100] brand of research, an A.A.

[00:47:27.100 – 00:47:31.800] brand of anything that was at all related to alcohol or what we were doing.

[00:47:31.800 – 00:47:40.000] Well, some of our members got into various brands of education, some good, some not so good.

[00:47:40.000 – 00:47:48.700] Inevitably, those people, uh, said, “Well, gee, I’m an A.A.” They said it right out and loud in public.

[00:47:48.700 – 00:47:58.700] “I’m also with the XYZ commission or the XYZ university or this or that state commission.” And if they

[00:47:58.700 – 00:48:08.200] went out and advertised themselves publicly as A.A.s connected with these enterprises, it immediately began to draw our endorsement onto it.

[00:48:08.200 – 00:48:13.500] And those enterprises very naturally said, “Well, gee, we got the public blessing of A.A.

[00:48:13.500 – 00:48:17.500] Ain’t it grand?” I mean, nobody’s blameworthy for these conditions.

[00:48:17.500 – 00:48:18.900] They were perfectly natural.

[00:48:18.900 – 00:48:27.200] So after a long period of confusion, we had to say, look, the individual A.A.

[00:48:27.200 – 00:48:34.900] member who is interested and competent should carry what we know in A.A.

[00:48:34.900 – 00:48:44.700] into these other efforts if he is invited, provided he will do so as a citizen and not publicly as an A.A.

[00:48:44.700 – 00:48:45.200] member.

[00:48:45.200 – 00:48:55.200] In other words, it would be antisocial to keep our knowledge to ourselves and refuse to share it with education, refuse to share it with

[00:48:55.200 – 00:48:58.200] medicine, refuse to share it with religion.

[00:48:58.200 – 00:49:05.600] This is A.A., and even– and we can’t say anything about these matters as groups, nor even as individuals.

[00:49:05.600 – 00:49:09.000] Well, if you tried to stop the individuals, you couldn’t anyway.

[00:49:09.000 – 00:49:12.000] They’d have gone on some to know that you don’t like that.

[00:49:12.000 – 00:49:14.800] So there wasn’t any controlling it there.

[00:49:14.800 – 00:49:18.600] The only place you could control it was to keep the A.A.

[00:49:18.600 – 00:49:20.100] movement and the A.A.

[00:49:20.100 – 00:49:24.700] group as such out of education, research, and endorsement.

[00:49:24.700 – 00:49:31.100] But at the same time, say to the member, if you are interested, you’ll get in there and pitch.

[00:49:31.100 – 00:49:32.900] But don’t use the A.A.

[00:49:32.900 – 00:49:39.500] name publicly to get this venture of yours money and publicity.

[00:49:39.500 – 00:49:42.700] Well, that’s how that worked out.

[00:49:42.700 – 00:49:52.900] We’re now, uh, uh, having a, a similar series of, uh, problems which, uh,

[00:49:52.900 – 00:49:56.800] really bring to bear the same principles.

[00:49:56.800 – 00:50:00.100] Uh, well, let me take the one case.

[00:50:00.100 – 00:50:02.700] Here was the, here was the Twelve Step House.

[00:50:02.700 – 00:50:07.500] Well, the Twelve Step House and many of its counterparts

[00:50:07.700 – 00:50:09.300] stop waiting on their name.

[00:50:09.300 – 00:50:19.300] Perfectly good idea that the fellow who is way in the derelict class and, and, and really beat down needs a

[00:50:19.300 – 00:50:20.900] little extra lift.

[00:50:20.900 – 00:50:30.100] Well, it’s a charitable and a wonderful idea that might require some management and some money and some clothes and all this kind of stuff.

[00:50:30.100 – 00:50:33.000] Okay.

[00:50:33.000 – 00:50:43.000] Those things have always got along all right if they had a competent management, if they didn’t try to use the AA name publicly to raise money or

[00:50:43.000 – 00:50:45.500] draw an endorsement onto their particular act.

[00:50:45.500 – 00:50:51.800] But every time they’ve tried it, they’ve got in disfavor with AA, but they needed the cooperation of AA.

[00:50:51.800 – 00:51:00.200] So that that relation has gradually worked out, and the poor ones have collapsed, and some of the good ones have gone on and done a swell job.

[00:51:00.200 – 00:51:09.000] Now we’re running into what we call, uh, the dual, uh, purpose group.

[00:51:09.000 – 00:51:17.400] And, uh, we’re running into this question of what we’re going to do with people who have related problems.

[00:51:17.400 – 00:51:27.400] We’ve got a hell of a, a queer sex problem, I’d say, or we got a divorce problem, or we got a narcotics problem, or we got

[00:51:27.400 – 00:51:32.100] a gambling problem, or we’re too fat, or we’re nervous.

[00:51:32.100 – 00:51:33.700] We’ve got a neurotic problem.

[00:51:33.700 – 00:51:38.800] Well, around in AA, uh, we got people with all those problems.

[00:51:38.800 – 00:51:40.400] I guess I got all of them myself.

[00:51:40.400 – 00:51:45.700] However, I am a drunk, and you’re a drunk.

[00:51:45.700 – 00:51:55.800] So the basis of– the primary basis of my identification with you is the hell of a time I had drinking and the wonderful time I’ve had getting over it,

[00:51:55.800 – 00:52:01.500] which has involved, however, with dealing with some of these underlying problems which we already had.

[00:52:01.500 – 00:52:11.700] So now, as you know, there have been a great many, uh, uh, sort of offshoots or copies of AA, some

[00:52:11.700 – 00:52:14.800] faithful facsimiles, some not so much so.

[00:52:14.800 – 00:52:22.800] We have Neurotics Anonymous and Gamblers Anonymous and Addicts Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous and Divorcees Anonymous.

[00:52:22.800 – 00:52:33.100] And we have, um, some, uh, organizations that deal with mental cases like, uh, Recovery Incorporated

[00:52:33.100 – 00:52:34.900] and the We Are Not Alone Society.

[00:52:34.900 – 00:52:39.700] And some of these people begin to do very well, and they’re borrowing from us.

[00:52:39.700 – 00:52:44.700] Now, some of our members go over to these other people to help them and to be helped.

[00:52:44.700 – 00:52:47.000] And that is fine.

[00:52:47.000 – 00:52:55.400] But now again comes the old problem that we had with the clubs, with the families, with the education.

[00:52:55.400 – 00:52:58.400] Now we want to be married.

[00:52:58.400 – 00:53:06.000] So let’s say I’m a narcotic addict as well as an alcoholic.

[00:53:06.000 – 00:53:11.600] Well, we got around in AA, a lot of people have had trouble not only with pills, but with morphine.

[00:53:11.600 – 00:53:13.100] I mean, a genuine addict.

[00:53:13.100 – 00:53:16.100] They identified with us.

[00:53:16.100 – 00:53:18.700] They joined us because they were also alcoholics.

[00:53:18.700 – 00:53:25.300] But naturally, having had the addiction problem too, they know the awful agony of that.

[00:53:25.300 – 00:53:28.900] They want to carry this message to the pure straight addict.

[00:53:28.900 – 00:53:36.600] So in some cases, they’ve tried to bring those people to AA meetings and bring them into full membership.

[00:53:36.600 – 00:53:46.800] Well, right away, the wheels begin to grind because are we going to take on all of the world’s problems, and can anybody with a problem join

[00:53:46.800 – 00:53:47.400] the AA?

[00:53:47.400 – 00:53:48.300] No.

[00:53:48.300 – 00:53:51.700] We decided long ago AA was for a drunk.

[00:53:51.700 – 00:53:58.100] No matter what complications a drunk has and how many other problems, we don’t care anything about that.

[00:53:58.100 – 00:53:59.800] The only thing we want to know, is he a drunk?

[00:53:59.800 – 00:54:00.900] Does he want to get over it?

[00:54:00.900 – 00:54:02.400] And, uh, and we’ll stick to that.

[00:54:02.400 – 00:54:13.600] But now comes the guy with the pure narcotic problem, and he comes to an AA group, and he says, “Well, I want to belong.” Well, under group autonomy, this

[00:54:13.600 – 00:54:17.900] group can really do about as it likes.

[00:54:17.900 – 00:54:27.900] You can, you can say to him, “Well, uh, we only deal with alcoholics here.” Or you can say to him, “Well, look, you can come and sit in an open meeting, and maybe you’ll find a

[00:54:27.900 – 00:54:37.900] few friends around who’ve also had the narcotic problem who can help you start a narcotics group.” Or maybe we’re going to put you up on

[00:54:37.900 – 00:54:44.800] the platform and let you give a narcotic testimony, and we’re going to put you on the committee, and we’re going to take you right in.

[00:54:44.800 – 00:54:54.900] Well, this last mentioned course just doesn’t work very well because if a nar– if a, if a

[00:54:54.900 – 00:55:01.600] straight narcotic, let us say, is to become an AA member, he has to be capable of doing AA twelve-step work.

[00:55:01.600 – 00:55:08.600] He has to be capable of doing AA committee work, and he has to be capable of making an AA pitch from a platform.

[00:55:08.600 – 00:55:10.700] And how the hell can he if he’s a narcotic?

[00:55:10.700 – 00:55:11.800] He can’t.

[00:55:11.800 – 00:55:22.400] So that it is my hope that where there are good-sized open meetings, that AA members who themselves

[00:55:22.400 – 00:55:33.400] have had a narcotic experience and wish to work with narcotics should certainly be permitted to bring these people in as visitors to get the pitch with

[00:55:33.400 – 00:55:36.200] the idea that they may be able to start their own group.

[00:55:36.200 – 00:55:39.000] But I don’t see how we can go any further with that.

[00:55:39.000 – 00:55:43.700] And the group is, is the last word on the subject.

[00:55:43.700 – 00:55:46.100] So the, the group can do what it likes.

[00:55:46.100 – 00:55:57.900] Now then the question comes, if you’ve got– in an institution, let us say, you’ve got a peculiar condition where, uh, they

[00:55:57.900 – 00:56:07.900] can’t have but one meeting a week, the AA group, and here are a lot of narcotic people, and here are people with, uh, just a plain crime problem and other

[00:56:07.900 – 00:56:18.000] problems, and they see these drunks getting so much better emotionally and say, “How do you do it?” And they go to the warden, or maybe the group goes to the warden

[00:56:18.000 – 00:56:21.100] and says, “Well, can’t these other people come to our meetings?

[00:56:21.100 – 00:56:27.200] Or can’t they have separate meetings, and can’t we help them out?” The warden says, “No, you can’t have separate meetings.

[00:56:27.200 – 00:56:29.000] You just have one meeting a week.

[00:56:29.000 – 00:56:38.300] And it would be great if you’d, uh, have these people in.” Or, “I’m telling you I’m putting them in.” So, okay.

[00:56:38.300 – 00:56:46.600] So in comes a guy with a sex problem, with a narcotic problem, uh, with a burglary problem or whatever it is.

[00:56:46.600 – 00:56:49.900] And he sits down with the AA group in the meeting.

[00:56:49.900 – 00:56:53.400] Well, I say, what of it?

[00:56:53.400 – 00:57:01.700] The only thing that that group mustn’t do is to say, “We’re the AA neurotic group,” or, “We’re the AA burglary group.” See?

[00:57:01.700 – 00:57:09.500] If that group is going to be listed in the directory as an AA group, these other people have got to be visited.

[00:57:09.500 – 00:57:19.600] Then when they go out, there isn’t any guarantee that, uh, you’re going to receive a guy who was just a plain yegg

[00:57:19.600 – 00:57:21.300] that never drank any grog.

[00:57:21.300 – 00:57:24.600] Maybe he would be received at an open meeting, maybe not.

[00:57:24.600 – 00:57:26.600] I, I, I don’t know.

[00:57:26.600 – 00:57:29.000] I think that’s up to, to each group.

[00:57:29.000 – 00:57:36.900] Now, you see, there are these borderline cases which are not matters of shifting the AA tradition around.

[00:57:36.900 – 00:57:39.000] It’s just a reasonable application.

[00:57:39.000 – 00:57:42.500] And again, it’s this middle course business.

[00:57:42.500 – 00:57:48.800] You can take the course, we’ll have nothing to do with anything whatever but a drunk, a pure drunk.

[00:57:48.800 – 00:57:50.900] Well, in the first place, there ain’t any pure drunks.

[00:57:50.900 – 00:57:54.100] You got all these things in him but drunk.

[00:57:54.100 – 00:57:58.400] Or you can take the attitude, AA is going to save the world.

[00:57:58.400 – 00:57:59.900] Let’s bring them all in.

[00:57:59.900 – 00:58:10.000] Now, how do you apply the AA tradition of the single purpose of AA, and the no endorsement idea of

[00:58:10.000 – 00:58:13.000] AA, and the group autonomy idea of AA?

[00:58:13.000 – 00:58:23.200] If you take those three, three traditions, you can work out fair applications which will make what we know available to these other situations and

[00:58:23.200 – 00:58:30.700] groups, and at the same time not get us married and compromised, uh, which might ruin us.

[00:58:30.700 – 00:58:41.100] Because I think that it is a fundamental running all through government and through all forms of society that your first

[00:58:41.100 – 00:58:44.200] function is to preserve your own entity.

[00:58:44.200 – 00:58:47.500] Let us first preserve Alcoholics Anonymous.

[00:58:47.500 – 00:58:52.800] Then next, let us as individuals do what we can for the world around us.

[00:58:52.800 – 00:58:59.800] I’ve got it.

[00:58:59.800 – 00:59:09.800] Bill, I know

[00:59:09.800 – 00:59:14.700] that I’m speaking for all of us here, and I thank you very, very much for a wonderful talk.

[00:59:14.700 – 00:59:21.000] And this brings to an end the first part of our afternoon session.

[00:59:21.000 – 00:59:31.600] The program following is that the Intergroup Association of New York will conduct a workshop on services

[00:59:31.600 – 00:59:36.300] with my good, good friend Eddie in the chair, and I think three or four excellent speakers.

[00:59:36.300 – 00:59:46.400] Then the committee, the General Service Committee of New York, will have

[00:59:46.400 – 00:59:56.800] a group of speakers in the college room, and they’ll conduct a ser– a, a workshop there on general services.

[00:59:56.800 – 00:60:06.300] And I’m asking those who are interested in general services to come with me to the college room.

[00:60:06.300 – 00:60:09.000] Thank you again very much, and I don’t-

[00:56:53.400 – 00:57:01.700] The only thing that that group mustn’t do is to say, “We’re the AA neurotic group,” or, “We’re the AA burglary group.” See?

[00:57:01.700 – 00:57:09.500] If that group is going to be listed in the directory as an AA group, these other people have got to be visited.

[00:57:09.500 – 00:57:19.600] Then when they go out, there isn’t any guarantee that, uh, you’re going to receive a guy who was just a plain yegg

[00:57:19.600 – 00:57:21.300] that never drank any grog.

[00:57:21.300 – 00:57:24.600] Maybe he would be received at an open meeting, maybe not.

[00:57:24.600 – 00:57:26.600] I, I, I don’t know.

[00:57:26.600 – 00:57:29.000] I think that’s up to, to each group.

[00:57:29.000 – 00:57:36.900] Now, you see, there are these borderline cases which are not matters of shifting the AA tradition around.

[00:57:36.900 – 00:57:39.000] It’s just a reasonable application.

[00:57:39.000 – 00:57:42.500] And again, it’s this middle course business.

[00:57:42.500 – 00:57:48.800] You can take the course, we’ll have nothing to do with anything whatever but a drunk, a pure drunk.

[00:57:48.800 – 00:57:50.900] Well, in the first place, there ain’t any pure drunks.

[00:57:50.900 – 00:57:54.100] You got all these things in him but drunk.

[00:57:54.100 – 00:57:58.400] Or you can take the attitude, AA is going to save the world.

[00:57:58.400 – 00:57:59.900] Let’s bring them all in.

[00:57:59.900 – 00:58:10.000] Now, how do you apply the AA tradition of the single purpose of AA, and the no endorsement idea of

[00:58:10.000 – 00:58:13.000] AA, and the group autonomy idea of AA?

[00:58:13.000 – 00:58:23.200] If you take those three, three traditions, you can work out fair applications which will make what we know available to these other situations and

[00:58:23.200 – 00:58:30.700] groups, and at the same time not get us married and compromised, uh, which might ruin us.

[00:58:30.700 – 00:58:41.100] Because I think that it is a fundamental running all through government and through all forms of society that your first

[00:58:41.100 – 00:58:44.200] function is to preserve your own entity.

[00:58:44.200 – 00:58:47.500] Let us first preserve Alcoholics Anonymous.

[00:58:47.500 – 00:58:52.800] Then next, let us as individuals do what we can for the world around us.

[00:58:52.800 – 00:58:59.800] I’ve got it.

[00:58:59.800 – 00:59:09.800] Bill, I know

[00:59:09.800 – 00:59:14.700] that I’m speaking for all of us here, and I thank you very, very much for a wonderful talk.

[00:59:14.700 – 00:59:21.000] And this brings to an end the first part of our afternoon session.

[00:59:21.000 – 00:59:31.600] The program following is that the Intergroup Association of New York will conduct a workshop on services

[00:59:31.600 – 00:59:36.300] with my good, good friend Eddie in the chair, and I think three or four excellent speakers.

[00:59:36.300 – 00:59:46.400] Then the committee, the General Service Committee of New York, will have

[00:59:46.400 – 00:59:56.800] a group of speakers in the college room, and they’ll conduct a ser– a, a workshop there on general services.

[00:59:56.800 – 00:60:06.300] And I’m asking those who are interested in general services to come with me to the college room.

[00:60:06.300 – 00:60:09.000] Thank you again very much, and I don’t-

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