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[00:00:00.500 – 00:00:09.900] Uh, the next speaker is gonna comment, uh, on some of these things and give us some quite interesting, uh, case histories as he sees it.

[00:00:09.900 – 00:00:16.900] He must of necessity remain very anonymous, so his initials are Bill.

[00:00:16.900 – 00:00:18.400] Have Bill come up here.

[00:00:18.400 – 00:00:28.700] I must first assure you that I speak with extreme diffidence, layman that I am, on such highly

[00:00:28.700 – 00:00:29.900] technical matters.

[00:00:29.900 – 00:00:40.000] I became interested in this because I had known Abe and Humphrey for about ten years, and just an

[00:00:40.000 – 00:00:50.000] ordinary amount of compassion, uh, made me increase the interest as the prospect of doing something

[00:00:50.000 – 00:00:53.100] for serious cases unfolded.

[00:00:53.100 – 00:01:03.100] Also, the general thesis that, uh, schizy and the underlying situation,

[00:01:03.100 – 00:01:08.800] uh, might be organic in its causation was fascinating.

[00:01:08.800 – 00:01:18.800] However, I did nothing about it except, mmph, uh, at four years ago, I began to massively use material,

[00:01:18.800 – 00:01:27.300] and at that time, I was suffering from extreme exhaustion, anxiety seizures.

[00:01:27.300 – 00:01:35.100] I’d had a history of depression since AA that ran from forty-three to fifty-five.

[00:01:35.100 – 00:01:37.000] I never surfaced.

[00:01:37.000 – 00:01:39.100] Two or three years were suicidal.

[00:01:39.100 – 00:01:47.400] In fifty-five, the depression left, and however, this ex- state of exhaustion went on.

[00:01:47.400 – 00:01:56.400] So I began timidly at first, about four years ago, with a gram a day and a gram and a half a day.

[00:01:56.400 – 00:02:06.500] About two years ago, I went up to three grams, and then I’ve had a very marked improvement ever since, although my age

[00:02:06.500 – 00:02:08.800] bracket is around seventy-one.

[00:02:08.800 – 00:02:17.200] Uh, Wallace has tried this for a couple of years, and the general tonic effect has been fine.

[00:02:17.200 – 00:02:20.700] Well, these are rather trivial ob-observations.

[00:02:20.700 – 00:02:23.600] Now let’s come to some that are less trivial.

[00:02:23.600 – 00:02:33.700] As a kindred sufferer in depression and because of my position in AA,

[00:02:33.700 – 00:02:40.100] my mail is constantly full of people who say, “I’ve got this ungodly depression.

[00:02:40.100 – 00:02:43.900] I read your piece in the grapevine about yours.

[00:02:43.900 – 00:02:49.900] Uh, I’m ready to jump out the window,” and I get slews of this mail.

[00:02:49.900 – 00:03:00.200] So when it appeared, at least to me about two years ago, that the high

[00:03:00.200 – 00:03:11.200] EWI test plus the chemical test had begun to uncover a vast underlying area possibly

[00:03:11.200 – 00:03:16.600] related to schizophrenia and doubtless of a toxic origin.

[00:03:16.600 – 00:03:27.700] And when Abe made it clear to me that nicotinic acid had been massively given by Kaufmann beginning in forty-one, uh,

[00:03:27.700 – 00:03:38.100] re– on, on this, he reported in fifty-five, he was a joint doctor dealing with arthritis largely, and he had observed

[00:03:38.100 – 00:03:42.600] no untoward side effects, and his people were on it one to four grams a day.

[00:03:42.600 – 00:03:52.800] Then there was the long experience of Abe and Humphrey so that, uh, you know, there were a thousand, fifteen hundred

[00:03:52.800 – 00:03:58.900] people who had had this material in periods of five, ten, fifteen, twenty years.

[00:03:58.900 – 00:04:04.200] So even to a layman like me, this suggested a degree of safety.

[00:04:04.200 – 00:04:12.100] And because it was non-prescription, I felt no hesitancy in trying it out on some of my friends.

[00:04:12.100 – 00:04:21.500] Beginning last year, uh, in early spring, a girl came in my office.

[00:04:21.500 – 00:04:23.900] She’d been sober in AA twenty years.

[00:04:23.900 – 00:04:29.400] She had never been able to hardly escape from these depressions.

[00:04:29.400 – 00:04:34.400] She had been extensively analyzed.

[00:04:34.400 – 00:04:36.100] She had had the work.

[00:04:36.100 – 00:04:38.200] She tried the metaphysical approach.

[00:04:38.200 – 00:04:46.400] She was a tireless AA worker, and she came in to throw up her hands and tell me that, uh, uh, she might just as well jump out the window.

[00:04:46.400 – 00:04:47.900] She was suicidal.

[00:04:47.900 – 00:04:55.200] Well, as an old and dear friend, what was I supposed to do with a crock of niacin sitting in my drawer?

[00:04:55.200 – 00:04:58.700] So I gave her some.

[00:04:58.700 – 00:05:02.000] The depression was wiped out in thirty days.

[00:05:02.000 – 00:05:04.300] There’s been no recurrence, and this is over a year.

[00:05:04.300 – 00:05:10.300] Then came two more cases, very similar in rapid succession.

[00:05:10.300 – 00:05:12.600] Depression’s wiped out.

[00:05:12.600 – 00:05:16.100] In June came a manic depressive case.

[00:05:16.100 – 00:05:20.200] Those I’ve cited were the neurotic variety, all on the downside.

[00:05:20.200 – 00:05:25.900] Uh, this one was suicidal in the depressive phase.

[00:05:25.900 – 00:05:31.500] He was an old friend, old-timer in AA, man of great influence.

[00:05:31.500 – 00:05:38.200] And I said, “Tom, why don’t I send you a crock of these vitamins?” Which I did.

[00:05:38.200 – 00:05:40.600] That was a year ago.

[00:05:40.600 – 00:05:50.700] He had shot from suicidal depression into a very high manic phase that almost– and then that almost foreclosed his doing

[00:05:50.700 – 00:05:51.700] any business.

[00:05:51.700 – 00:06:01.700] The manic phase subsided, and although his condition has been chronic, this oscillation, never

[00:06:01.700 – 00:06:06.700] normal, he has leveled right out, and there’s been no recurrence in a year.

[00:06:06.700 – 00:06:14.900] The beginning looked good, and the results happened to be fast on these few cases.

[00:06:14.900 – 00:06:25.000] So since AA is full of tens of thousands of people who have

[00:06:25.000 – 00:06:35.100] what we call in our jargon, unhappy sobriety, meaning that they have depression, they have tension, anxiety, seizures, uh, mild paranoia, et

[00:06:35.100 – 00:06:35.500] cetera.

[00:06:35.500 – 00:06:45.600] I figured that, uh, we might have a testing ground which I could, in a mild way, advocate.

[00:06:45.600 – 00:06:56.700] And if this stuff was as good as it had appeared to be by the representations of Abe and Humphrey and my own experience, uh,

[00:06:56.700 – 00:06:59.600] the risk would be little in suggesting it.

[00:06:59.600 – 00:07:06.000] So that I started a little group of about thirty people in New York, some of them non-alcoholics.

[00:07:06.000 – 00:07:13.000] The result was spectacular in about a third of the cases, very good in another third.

[00:07:13.000 – 00:07:17.000] Uh, there was only one negative result.

[00:07:17.000 – 00:07:19.400] Everybody benefited somehow.

[00:07:19.400 – 00:07:23.500] Meanwhile, aches and pains and that kind of stuff cleared up.

[00:07:23.500 – 00:07:33.600] At this juncture, I thought that I– knowing that this is a matter for the doctors and not for me, I thought to write you

[00:07:33.600 – 00:07:43.700] people about it and composed a letter known as Communication to AA Physicians, in which I recited that you know the history of the research, which Abe has filled

[00:07:43.700 – 00:07:45.200] you in on so ably.

[00:07:45.200 – 00:07:50.600] And, uh, that was that.

[00:07:50.600 – 00:07:58.900] Well, uh, cautiously, we sent it out to a sampling of thirty-two of three hundred and fifty AA doctors.

[00:07:58.900 – 00:08:09.500] Uh, we have since learned that twenty-two of them are using the material of this first sampling, not

[00:08:09.500 – 00:08:15.000] just because I said so, but because they’re doctors who are getting some results.

[00:08:15.000 – 00:08:17.700] Some of these results have come back.

[00:08:17.700 – 00:08:27.800] Now, the chain reaction, the spontaneous kind, where one guy tells another, “Get a crock, brother.” Uh, we had got up to about

[00:08:27.800 – 00:08:30.500] a hundred cases that we knew about.

[00:08:30.500 – 00:08:34.400] The reports were coming back about the same as the original batch.

[00:08:34.400 – 00:08:39.800] And, uh, that was January first.

[00:08:39.800 – 00:08:50.200] Based on reports, numerical reports from only two wholesalers, those two wholesalers, uh, reported,

[00:08:50.200 – 00:09:00.400] uh, four hundred new users, uh, in April, jumping from the one

[00:09:00.400 – 00:09:04.800] hundred purchases in, in January.

[00:09:04.800 – 00:09:14.800] In June, I have not the report of the largest wholesaler, but the lesser

[00:09:14.800 – 00:09:24.900] one who customarily does a third of the business, reported seven hundred crocks sold in June, which suggests that people are going on

[00:09:24.900 – 00:09:27.400] it at the rate of three thousand people a month.

[00:09:27.400 – 00:09:37.600] Now, I’m not a scientist, but I would venture that there is some point where the scientific method

[00:09:37.600 – 00:09:40.500] has to give way to experience and common sense.

[00:09:40.500 – 00:09:50.500] And this suggests to me very strongly that the customers are so damn well satisfied that they are saying to the other people

[00:09:50.500 – 00:09:55.900] in suffering, and this neurotic business is great agony, and I should know.

[00:09:55.900 – 00:09:59.000] Brother, get with it.

[00:09:59.000 – 00:10:06.600] Now, it is very significant that in January, about three doctors purchased three crocks in the eyes.

[00:10:06.600 – 00:10:14.400] In the f– in the four hundred April figures, about a hundred doctors bought crocks in the eyes.

[00:10:14.400 – 00:10:24.400] And in the latter figures, the percentage is running, I think, around twenty-five percent, which suggests that the customers have gone to

[00:10:24.400 – 00:10:27.200] the doctors and said, “Hey, buster, look at me now.

[00:10:27.200 – 00:10:37.200] Why don’t you get with it?” Meanwhile, you people, a few of you had tried this, and some of you are present

[00:10:37.200 – 00:10:38.900] who I think have had good results.

[00:10:38.900 – 00:10:40.400] I don’t know how many.

[00:10:40.400 – 00:10:45.100] I’d like a show of hands before I shut up, which will be in just a minute.

[00:10:45.100 – 00:10:56.900] Um, so the

[00:10:56.900 – 00:11:07.700] spread has been greatly accelerated, I think, because, uh, we have sent my communication to three hundred and twenty more of you,

[00:11:07.700 – 00:11:13.200] and I imagine that a certain proportion more have been using this.

[00:11:13.200 – 00:11:21.600] Uh, now the mail coming back, some of it, a third of it is quite fantastic.

[00:11:21.600 – 00:11:32.900] And in, in the little package of case material, still quite unscientific, but at least moving to me, uh,

[00:11:32.900 – 00:11:43.100] you will find the reports of one of our folks, Brother Hawkins, down in the Long Island, uh, Manhasset, uh, Mental

[00:11:43.100 – 00:11:43.800] Health Center.

[00:11:43.800 – 00:11:48.400] Another one from Chicago has tried it on very low-key cases.

[00:11:48.400 – 00:11:57.000] Both these reports, preliminary, not great amounts of time elapsed, but all favorable to this earlier experience.

[00:11:57.000 – 00:12:07.800] Uh, in addition, we have been through AA channels making approaches to some institutions, and,

[00:12:07.800 – 00:12:16.900] uh, we were told that this couldn’t be done People love us AAs so much that they took our word for it as laymen.

[00:12:16.900 – 00:12:27.000] And so about 30 institutions are now using this, and I mean by institutions, let’s say Charity Hospital in Cleveland,

[00:12:27.000 – 00:12:29.600] uh, St.

[00:12:29.600 – 00:12:37.500] Thomas in Akron, where Bob and Ignatia held forth in the old days, are routinely giving it to all patients.

[00:12:37.500 – 00:12:40.300] There are a number of places like that.

[00:12:40.300 – 00:12:44.800] It’s also in a couple of Veterans Administration places.

[00:12:44.800 – 00:12:54.900] Uh, it has landed in one or two top and really authoritative hospitals in the psychiatric departments.

[00:12:54.900 – 00:13:04.400] Uh, we have about 10 AA drying out joints, and these reports keep filtering back.

[00:13:04.400 – 00:13:14.400] So I think that it’s a fair guess that, uh, come the middle of next year with more time elapsed, and for us to go

[00:13:14.400 – 00:13:25.400] out into these channels and say, “Boys, what happened?” That we might get in several bushels of that sort of thing of which you have a token, uh,

[00:13:25.400 – 00:13:27.200] sampling here.

[00:13:27.200 – 00:13:29.500] I’m glad to see you picked this stuff up.

[00:13:29.500 – 00:13:39.800] Now, in quick conclusion, uh, there was at first a feeling that, uh, AAs would say, “Well,

[00:13:39.800 – 00:13:50.100] this is a pill.” And of course, you know, we’re extremely allergic to pills, and, uh, enormous

[00:13:50.100 – 00:13:52.700] amounts of tranquilizers are prescribed.

[00:13:52.700 – 00:14:02.400] But when it’s found that this was a vitamin, and when they began to see screwballs getting unscrewed, the resistance has gone down pretty fast.

[00:14:02.400 – 00:14:12.500] Now, there was still fear that this would interfere with the spiritual side of the program, that it might be regarded as a drunk

[00:14:12.500 – 00:14:16.800] cure, and that it would somehow take the place of the 12 steps.

[00:14:16.800 – 00:14:27.200] In refutation, I close on this note from a brother who says nothing about depressions or tension or exhaustion

[00:14:27.200 – 00:14:28.500] or even paranoia.

[00:14:28.500 – 00:14:30.600] This is what he said.

[00:14:30.600 – 00:14:34.900] “About a year ago, I first heard of this material.

[00:14:34.900 – 00:14:43.900] At that time, both of my shoulders were locked tight with bursitis, and I was in constant pain, unable to sleep or lie down with any comfort.

[00:14:43.900 – 00:14:50.300] In addition to niacin, I use capsule something or other.

[00:14:50.300 – 00:14:53.200] The results have been nothing less than a miracle.

[00:14:53.200 – 00:15:03.400] I have experienced the healing of my entire chest area, which allows me to breathe freely for the first time in years, and my arms are completely

[00:15:03.400 – 00:15:03.700] free.

[00:15:03.700 – 00:15:13.900] Of course, you understand that this cannot be all credited to this drug because I know that I have experienced a tremendous

[00:15:13.900 – 00:15:16.700] spiritual healing on my chest and lungs.

[00:15:16.700 – 00:15:21.800] Maybe the B3 therapy triggered this.

[00:15:21.800 – 00:15:28.500] I don’t know.” So here is a man who still sticks to the 12 steps.

[00:15:28.500 – 00:15:29.200] Thank you.

[00:15:29.200 – 00:15:37.700] Thanks, Bill.

[00:15:37.700 – 00:15:47.700] If any of you, uh, question whether Bill is in a depression or not, I hasten to assure you that I went

[00:15:47.700 – 00:15:57.700] to Montreal in 1947 to hear Bill talk to the American Psychiatric Association, one of the very few laymen who has ever been

[00:15:57.700 – 00:16:00.400] accorded this opportunity.

[00:16:00.400 – 00:16:05.300] And I was only dry for a couple of years myself.

[00:16:05.300 – 00:16:08.700] I was, uh, reminiscing with Lois this morning about it.

[00:16:08.700 – 00:16:16.000] I was in a terrific depression, or thought I was, about the time Forrestal jumped out of the window at Bethesda, if you’ll recall.

[00:16:16.000 – 00:16:20.700] And the psychiatrists were saying, “I don’t understand such a thing.” I said, “I do.

[00:16:20.700 – 00:16:30.800] I know how to do it.” And I thought, “Golly, if I could just get to talk to Bill, uh, this would help a lot.” So I, uh, got a hold

[00:16:30.800 – 00:16:34.400] of Bill and Lois to take them to dinner, cure my depression.

[00:16:34.400 – 00:16:36.000] All I heard was Bill’s depression.

[00:16:36.000 – 00:16:37.900] Never did get around to mine, Bill.

[00:16:37.900 – 00:16:47.900] I assure you, he was in a depression in ’47, but in spite of that, he gave a most wonderful talk at the APA, and I

[00:16:47.900 – 00:16:56.900] still sometimes read his, uh, a reprint of Bill’s talk, uh, to AA’s group, to AA groups in Denver.

[00:16:56.900 – 00:17:07.000] I think it, it, uh, clarifies the relationship of medicine and AA better than anything that I have, uh, encountered yet, and that’s going

[00:17:07.000 – 00:17:08.700] on to 20 years ago, you see.

[00:12:29.600 – 00:12:37.500] Thomas in Akron, where Bob and Ignatia held forth in the old days, are routinely giving it to all patients.

[00:12:37.500 – 00:12:40.300] There are a number of places like that.

[00:12:40.300 – 00:12:44.800] It’s also in a couple of Veterans Administration places.

[00:12:44.800 – 00:12:54.900] Uh, it has landed in one or two top and really authoritative hospitals in the psychiatric departments.

[00:12:54.900 – 00:13:04.400] Uh, we have about 10 AA drying out joints, and these reports keep filtering back.

[00:13:04.400 – 00:13:14.400] So I think that it’s a fair guess that, uh, come the middle of next year with more time elapsed, and for us to go

[00:13:14.400 – 00:13:25.400] out into these channels and say, “Boys, what happened?” That we might get in several bushels of that sort of thing of which you have a token, uh,

[00:13:25.400 – 00:13:27.200] sampling here.

[00:13:27.200 – 00:13:29.500] I’m glad to see you picked this stuff up.

[00:13:29.500 – 00:13:39.800] Now, in quick conclusion, uh, there was at first a feeling that, uh, AAs would say, “Well,

[00:13:39.800 – 00:13:50.100] this is a pill.” And of course, you know, we’re extremely allergic to pills, and, uh, enormous

[00:13:50.100 – 00:13:52.700] amounts of tranquilizers are prescribed.

[00:13:52.700 – 00:14:02.400] But when it’s found that this was a vitamin, and when they began to see screwballs getting unscrewed, the resistance has gone down pretty fast.

[00:14:02.400 – 00:14:12.500] Now, there was still fear that this would interfere with the spiritual side of the program, that it might be regarded as a drunk

[00:14:12.500 – 00:14:16.800] cure, and that it would somehow take the place of the 12 steps.

[00:14:16.800 – 00:14:27.200] In refutation, I close on this note from a brother who says nothing about depressions or tension or exhaustion

[00:14:27.200 – 00:14:28.500] or even paranoia.

[00:14:28.500 – 00:14:30.600] This is what he said.

[00:14:30.600 – 00:14:34.900] “About a year ago, I first heard of this material.

[00:14:34.900 – 00:14:43.900] At that time, both of my shoulders were locked tight with bursitis, and I was in constant pain, unable to sleep or lie down with any comfort.

[00:14:43.900 – 00:14:50.300] In addition to niacin, I use capsule something or other.

[00:14:50.300 – 00:14:53.200] The results have been nothing less than a miracle.

[00:14:53.200 – 00:15:03.400] I have experienced the healing of my entire chest area, which allows me to breathe freely for the first time in years, and my arms are completely

[00:15:03.400 – 00:15:03.700] free.

[00:15:03.700 – 00:15:13.900] Of course, you understand that this cannot be all credited to this drug because I know that I have experienced a tremendous

[00:15:13.900 – 00:15:16.700] spiritual healing on my chest and lungs.

[00:15:16.700 – 00:15:21.800] Maybe the B3 therapy triggered this.

[00:15:21.800 – 00:15:28.500] I don’t know.” So here is a man who still sticks to the 12 steps.

[00:15:28.500 – 00:15:29.200] Thank you.

[00:15:29.200 – 00:15:37.700] Thanks, Bill.

[00:15:37.700 – 00:15:47.700] If any of you, uh, question whether Bill is in a depression or not, I hasten to assure you that I went

[00:15:47.700 – 00:15:57.700] to Montreal in 1947 to hear Bill talk to the American Psychiatric Association, one of the very few laymen who has ever been

[00:15:57.700 – 00:16:00.400] accorded this opportunity.

[00:16:00.400 – 00:16:05.300] And I was only dry for a couple of years myself.

[00:16:05.300 – 00:16:08.700] I was, uh, reminiscing with Lois this morning about it.

[00:16:08.700 – 00:16:16.000] I was in a terrific depression, or thought I was, about the time Forrestal jumped out of the window at Bethesda, if you’ll recall.

[00:16:16.000 – 00:16:20.700] And the psychiatrists were saying, “I don’t understand such a thing.” I said, “I do.

[00:16:20.700 – 00:16:30.800] I know how to do it.” And I thought, “Golly, if I could just get to talk to Bill, uh, this would help a lot.” So I, uh, got a hold

[00:16:30.800 – 00:16:34.400] of Bill and Lois to take them to dinner, cure my depression.

[00:16:34.400 – 00:16:36.000] All I heard was Bill’s depression.

[00:16:36.000 – 00:16:37.900] Never did get around to mine, Bill.

[00:16:37.900 – 00:16:47.900] I assure you, he was in a depression in ’47, but in spite of that, he gave a most wonderful talk at the APA, and I

[00:16:47.900 – 00:16:56.900] still sometimes read his, uh, a reprint of Bill’s talk, uh, to AA’s group, to AA groups in Denver.

[00:16:56.900 – 00:17:07.000] I think it, it, uh, clarifies the relationship of medicine and AA better than anything that I have, uh, encountered yet, and that’s going

[00:17:07.000 – 00:17:08.700] on to 20 years ago, you see.

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