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Source: Ruth H – Ruth H. – 1st AA Secretary – Speaker Talk – Date Unknown.mp3 File: ruth-h-ruth-h-1st-aa-secretary-speaker-talk-date-unknown.mp3 Duration: 01:20:32
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I'm going to tell you what my name is. My name is Sybil Corwin, and I'm an alcoholic. And what is today? March the 11th? Twelve. Oh, I signed the book. Everybody signed it March the 11th. Well, that's par for the course. I did, too. So we'll have to correct that. But at any rate, I wanted to tell you all that this is not a regular AA meeting. Now, you couldn't tell that just by looking at you. But it isn't. What it is, it's a historical, inspirational happening, or something like that.
But I know members. I know me, so then I know you. And I know that I better start it like an AA meeting and get us comfortable and get over that thing that I've been going through for about the last three days. Because it was Tuesday evening before I knew that we'd be here. And it was Wednesday at 10 o'clock in the morning before I knew we even had a hall. And I do thank you for coming, and I know we'll be amply rewarded.
Now, I wonder if I could ask you to do this, to say the serenity prayer with me. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Now, before I ask to have our steps read, which also makes us very comfortable here and almost all over the world now. I think it began here, though, in Southern California, reading the fifth chapter, because they couldn't find any place in the book that told them how to lead a meeting.
And those few guys that were around said, well, let's just turn to where it says how it works, and it surely will tell us what to do. And so they read it to each other. Yeah. And so that's what they did. They simply read the fifth chapter to each other then as we do now. But I'm not going to have that done until I find out a few things. First of all, I want to know if there are any alcoholics in the house.
Great. She's one. All right. So am I. Now, do we have any new people sober less than 30 days? Whoa, two! Now, do we have any people here sober from then on up to six months? How about that first year? The big milestone. Let's see if we're going to do it. Five years. Ten. Ten years. Fifteen. Twenty. Twenty-five. And thirty. And thirty-five. And thirty-five. Too old to put up your hands. All right. Thirty-six.
And thirty-seven. And thirty-seven. In two weeks. We cheated just that much, but we're March babies. Thank God. I'm glad of that. Now, before I say anything else, I have my big red book here today that Jimmy Burwell and Rosa gave me. Was this the original manuscript? That's the original manuscript. Can I have it, Clare? Yellow. I wonder what page. The yellow marker. Oh, the yellow marker. Now, I'm going to show you how it might have been.
And then I'm going to have Ruth's daughter, Lori, who is a member of AA, show you how it came out, finally. Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our directions. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to the simple program. They're usually men and women. Women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunate.
They're not at fault. They seem to have been born that way. They're naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of life, a way of life, which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average.
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There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
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Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we're like now. If you decide you want what we have and are willing to go to any lengths to get it, then you're ready to follow directions. Now, at some of these you may balk. You may think you can find an easier, softer way. We doubt. We doubt if you can. We doubt if you can. With all the earnestness in our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start.
Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas, and the result was nil until we let go absolutely. Remember, you're dealing with alcohol, cunning, baffling, and powerful. Without help, it's too much for you. But there is one who has all power. That one is God. You must find him now. Half measures will avail you nothing. You stand at the turning point. So throw yourself under his protection and care with complete abandon.
Now we think you can take it. Here are the steps we took which are suggested as your program of recovery. Admitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unmanageable. Came to believe that power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care and direction of God. As we understood him. Made a searching and fairly small inventory of ourselves.
Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. We're entirely willing that God remove all these defects of character. Humbly, on our knees, asked him to remove our shortcomings holding nothing back. Made a list of all persons we'd harmed and became willing to make complete amends to them all. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible except when to do so would injure them or others.
Continued to take personal inventory and when wrong promptly admitted it. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our contact with God. Praying only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out. Having had a spiritual experience as a result of this course of action. We tried to carry this message to others. Especially alcoholics. And to practice these principles in all our affairs.
You may say, well, what an order. I can't go through with it. Don't be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We're not saints. The point is we're willing to go along spiritual lines. The principles we've set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection. Now, this chapter to the agnostic and our personal adventures before we go on.
Now, this chapter to the agnostic and our personal adventures before and after are designed to sell you three pertinent ideas. That you are an alcoholic and you cannot manage your own life. That probably no human power can relieve your alcoholism. But God can and will. Now, if you're not convinced on these vital issues. You ought to re-read this book. Or throw it away. Or throw it away. That's the way it was.
And Laurie will read the portion out of the big red book that finally reached California and got us here today. Laurie is Ruth's daughter. So we're a couple of years or something like that. A year and a half. Thank you. My name is Laurie and I'm an alcoholic. Hi. Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program.
Usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault. They seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those too who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders. But many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like. What happened and what we are like now. If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it. Then you are ready to take certain steps. At some of these we balked. We thought we could find an easier, softer way but we could not. With all the earnestness at our command we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start.
Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely. Remember that we deal with alcohol. Cunning, baffling, powerful. Without help it is too much for us. But there is one who has all power. That one is God. May you find him now. Half measure has availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked his protection and care with complete abandon. Here are the steps we took which are suggested as a program of recovery.
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One, we admitted we were powerless over alcohol and that our lives had become unmanageable. Two, came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. Three, made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him. Four, made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. Five, admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
Six, were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. Seven, humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings. Eight, made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all. Nine, made direct amends to such people wherever possible except when to do so would injure them or others. Ten, continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
Eleven, sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood him. Praying only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out. Twelve, having had a spiritual experience as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs. Many of us exclaimed, what an order, I can't go through with it.
Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection. Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas.
A, that we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives. B, that probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism. C, that God could and would if sought. We thank you very much, Laurie. You know, when I was a little girl, my favorite candy was black gumdrops, and I never could get enough of them. But I had a thing about when I did get a sack full of gumdrops, if there were any black ones in it, I would save them for my two brothers.
One of them was a black candy, and I never could get enough of it. But I had a thing about when I did get a sack full of gumdrops, if there were any black ones in it, I would save them for my two brothers. One of them who turned out to be an alcoholic, and the good brother who never did have a drink, still living in Dallas. The other one came into AA shortly after I did the following week. But they were little kids, and I was much smaller than they, and so I'd take the sack of gumdrops home, and I'd give them the black ones, or cut them in two, and we'd all have a taste.
And I never could get enough black gumdrops, until Evelyn one day brought me a big box of black gumdrops. And I felt guilty. I put them in my desk drawer at the central office, and I kept them because I didn't want to eat them all unless I shared them with somebody. And so that's the way I felt today, when at long last, Ruth Hoppe Creselius came out here from Ohio. As I told you, I only knew it. I had been expecting her for a while.
She had a special reason for coming out, because Laurie was going to have a baby. I mean, the real live, kicking time, you know. And her trip was delayed once because of bad weather, and I knew I had to wait a little longer. And then I got permission to get in touch with you today, so that I could share with you some of the black gumdrops that I knew I couldn't hoard them all to myself. Because she's going to tell us how it was, back there in New York, in the office, as AA was being born, she was the girl that helped Bill answer our calls for help.
When that Saturday Evening Post article came out, in particular, it got me. 37 years ago today, I wrote my letter for help. I got sober on the 23rd of March this year. And she wrote that letter, signed it, R. Hawk. And Mark Joseph was telling me on the phone, Al, that you thought for years that it was Robert Hawk. We didn't know it was a girl. We thought it was a man back there, answering all our letters.
And so it was, that the little office, which was there for another purpose, a business purpose, when Ruth was hired, it became her lot to answer all of the letters from the Saturday Evening Post, and those few calls that they got before that, and all the calls afterward, for a very long time. And I can't tell you how grateful I am that she's here today to share her experiences with us. Now, I don't know how long she'll talk, and I don't care, but when she gets tired of talking, we may have time for a few questions and answers, which we would appreciate your holding to some little tidbit of the early history that you would like to know about.
The early history of AA, and that's about it. And I have no idea, and I hope she'll talk forever, but if she doesn't, we'll have time for a few questions. And then, Ruth, when they ask their question from out there, if you would repeat it back to them. But now, you talk first. Well, you repeat it back to them, and so that Joe can pick it up here on the mic, so that we can all have a tape, because he has order blanks for anybody who wants to save it, and keep it, and take it home.
He'll make tapes for us, and we can order them from Joe after the meeting. And so, Ruth, thank you. Thank you for having me. And we can order them from Joe after the meeting. And so without further ado, I'm going to call on Ruth H. Creselius.
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Applause Applause If you can't hear me, give me a few minutes. This is a very, very moving experience for me too. It's been a long time. I've been disassociated from active participation with AA for a long, long time. I haven't even been in touch with Sybil very long. Before I start and I forget it, may I have the… No, the other. Thank you. It's been a long time since I even thought of that. Thank you very much.
And I really, I'm not a speaker. I've never been a public speaker. I've always been fine behind a typewriter and pretty good on a one-to-one basis. But this kind of thing I've never been very successful at. And I'd like to start where we left off with this, if I may. I'm going to do this backwards. Sybil, does it matter? I had forgotten. I really had forgotten. And my daughter is laughing. She said, did you really do it that way at first?
And I had forgotten, but we certainly, most certainly did. I think Hank Parkhurst, who was also one of the very early members, was a very forceful type of man. And I think most of the selling atmosphere of those statements really came from him. And after it was typed at least 50 times, I suppose, somewhere it began to seep into Bill's head that really most people didn't like this very much, including himself, because none of us like to have somebody say, you must do this.
And not only the fore part of this, but all the steps were originally written, you must accept, you must do this, and you must do that. None of it was we. And it was first caught in the steps that they better do something about this because not many people were going to feel that way about it on a you must basis. Sybil, I want to first thank you for the beautiful cursive. It really is lovely. Thank you.
And we have been doing some talking. I have only met Matt and Marlene and Bob today, but I already feel like old times, and I immediately did with Sybil. And they seem to think that most of you would be interested in how I first got into this thing, since I'm not an alcoholic. Bill and everybody in those days was dead broke. No alcoholic had two cents, except some friends had just lent him a dollar or somebody had made a sale and everybody shared whatever they had, including Bill Wilson's home, mostly, where most of the alcoholics in those days were dried out.
It was the only way. Nobody wanted to help sober anybody up or anything else. So we all did it occasionally. Sat up with somebody and dosed out a teaspoon of liquor here, and in those days we didn't know how harmful pills might be. There was a little sleeping pill here and whatever we had and whatever we could do with lots and lots of coffee and sympathy. But Bill and Hank Parkhurst had gotten together to start a little business, which they decided, I thought appropriately, honored dealers.
And it was an effort to buy carload lots of tires or cases of oil or that type of thing, and they had canvassed a lot of service stations. And in order to try to get enough orders to buy a carload lot of something, and then the profits were split between Hank and Parkhurst and my salary and the service station owners. But unfortunately, Bill particularly was much too busy to go out selling oil and windshield wipers and tires and that sort of thing because he had too many people to talk to, and so did Hank.
Hank loved it as much as Bill did, but Hank was a salesman type, and he did go out and spend his time more. But here I was in quite a nice desk. Both Bill and Hank were used to big business and office suites and high-priced secretaries. I did get $15 to start with at that time, but I was a good one. But in any event, I did have an outer office, and they had two desks on a large inner office. But very little business came in that way.
My cell phone was quite active, and I was good at that. But pretty soon the first one I was really aware of was quite a nice-looking gentleman in a bowler hat and a beautiful black overcoat reeling, desperately reeling up the stairs. We had no elevator. This was in Newark, New Jersey, not in New York City. This was way back when. And he wanted to see Bill Wilson, and I insisted on knowing why and what his business was, and I thought that's what secretaries always did.
And he refused to give me any kind of a name.
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I said, I'm glad to see Bill Wilson. I said, Mr. Wilson's busy and didn't get me anywhere anyway. But Bill finally heard us out there and came out and roared, Hello, Bob, and how are you today? Are we ever glad to see you? And hauled him into the office. And at this time, I was not a bit familiar with alcoholism in any form. And now that I look back, I had a grandfather and so on, but I at this point was not allowed to know that.
But anyway, they were in there at a long time laughing their heads off, and I couldn't understand that. There was this poor fellow under the really in bad shape with liquor, and they were thinking it was funny. And he was telling him how he was afraid to go down the stairs alone because he might fall down. And that amused Bill. You know, the office door was open. There was no pretense. And the first thing I know, they were Hank and this man, Bob and Bill were all kneeling around the desk and praying.
And I desperately didn't know whether I was going to. I really didn't. It really worried me whether I have to stay or not. Well, this is. I was 25, but I didn't think my father would approve at all. I really didn't. But I slowly. And that is how I learned about alcoholism by these and those days men. And they were all very desperate. They were not young. They were outside of the first one that came in.
Nobody was well-dressed, and they were distraught and anxious and usually very odorous. Very. But I slowly, I, Bill began to mean a great deal, a great deal to me. And I was impressed by Hank Parker's abilities and what they were trying to do gradually filtered somewhere, filtered in. And I, you couldn't have paid me to leave within a few months. Now, Bill, this is what was happening. The honor dealer slowly went bankrupt, and we were getting more and more people dropping in or phoning.
And Bill had even, all of you were lucky enough to know Bill. He was a humble man. He was not a wise man in his own terms. He was loving. He was talented. But basically, very human, very human man. And he sought, always sought for wisdom. He studied and thought and he searched the minds and souls of people. All the while, he was pouring out this tremendous love. And so, therefore, bankruptcy was inevitable.
The business simply couldn't go on that basis. And we were dependent on, at this point, my father also got very interested. And he, I had an old boy. I had just gone through a disastrous marriage. And Hank and Bill put me back together by giving me this opportunity and realizing my problems at the time. So that none of us, we were all enmeshed in this attempt to help. And Lois was so deeply in it, of course, as everyone was at that time.
Now, Bill was sober just about one year at the time when I started. He had been to Akron. He had met Doc. And this had developed it out there. And this, of course, was the nucleus of the strength, the whole foundation of what has happened ever since. But we finally gave up trying to pretend it was a business. And we counted on the help of just to run the office. I was without salaries when I brought my father in.
He agreed to support myself and my son so that I could work with this group and with this whole thing. And Hank Parkers then got all agog. At this time, Bill used to claim that we had 100 alcoholic members. There were 100 in this AA group. And I'm German. I have a German background. And I'm very factual. Everything has two and two is always four. There's nothing that's going to go wrong with that. And Bill would say, lovingly and broadly, we now have 100 members.
And I'd be sitting there, 97, you know. And so he always said, oh, come on, Dutch, don't spoil my stories. And I was always trying to do exactly that. The Dutch came partly because of my German background. And both he and Hank Parkers used to say, ask the Dutchess. I don't know. And so it came down to being Dutch. But we began to get, as Sybil has been saying, questions about, I must say to begin with, the reason I began to answer the mail was Bill hated to dictate.
He really did. This whole manuscript was done with Bill standing behind me while I typed. He liked to speak a while and then look it over. And he wanted it right then while his thoughts were working in the same vein. He usually came in in the morning with notes. But I wanted to tell you, we could have done the book much more quickly if we hadn't had such marvelous people coming in at all times. Because Bill was ready to drop it any time.
And that's why I was the Dutchess, because I kept reminding him that, after all, if we had a book to write, you know, and that sort of thing, which he always did.
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So that when finally the book idea was started between Dr. Bob and Akron and Cleveland and ourselves, because so many questions were coming in about, well, what do you do at a meeting? And how do you start? And all the rest of it. And Bill felt in the early days that everyone should, every group had the right to formulate its own way of doing this particular thing. Until it came about that we had a wandering, loving, lovable Jewish salesman who traveled all through the South.
And he came back with stories about how they had one particular group where they served beer during the evening, but nothing but beer. So that everything was perfectly fine. And, of course, Bill thought it was hilarious, but nevertheless, he also thought that this kind of thing shouldn't go on. And that's really how the idea of the book really started. And besides, I was getting a little tired of typing everything.
The whole ideas, it had formulated, sifted through me, and I'll never know how, but I'm always grateful. I'll always be grateful that I had the opportunity. And at first, Bill read some of the letters and said, you're doing fine. Just keep it up. Don't bother me. I don't like to write letters. I don't like to dictate letters. And this is how I started. But in those days, this was pre-woman's lib. And what man of any age was going to think a girl could possibly, whether Bill thought so or not, didn't matter in those days, that a girl could possibly be able to do this.
I seem to be able to project Bill. It is the only way I can put it at all. So that was why it was Arhok for years. And I do have a low voice and did way back then. And people would call on the telephone, and they sometimes didn't know the difference anyway. And I still have telephone operators say, I want to talk to Mrs. Cresidius. And I said, speaking, they say, Mrs. Cresidius, you know. So it did help from that standpoint until after a while it just didn't matter anymore.
Now, the first idea for naming the book was 100 Men, because that's where we started. And, of course, a lot of others. I really don't know where the name Alcoholics Anonymous came from. I really don't. At the time, I mean, who originated that name at all? But at the time we had the book edited by a New York editor and his office staff. We presented a group of names. One was the broken glass, and some of these had been patented and so on.
But the minute he saw Alcoholics Anonymous, he said, that's it. That's it. And, of course, how could it be anything else? I don't think any of us could conceive of anything else. But I went through years of Bill saying, now we have 200 groups and 5,000 people, and I'm still sitting in the audience shaking my head. No way. You know, if it was 100 short, that didn't matter to Bill. And, of course, it really didn't matter.
But that's the type of factual. And so we had a pretty good balance going there. We had an enormous map of the United States. This was Hank Parker's idea, with pins for red. I don't remember the colors, but a certain color for new groups up to 10 people. And if you had 100, boy, you had a gold star, I'll tell you. We really did go into that kind of thing for a while. And I really think that's about where I'm going to stop.
That's where I run out of wind. I really do. But I would be glad to answer any questions, because I'm not. Thank you. I do know there's a lot of history you'd really like to hear, and I wish I were a public speaker, but I'm not, and I think you'll all enjoy it more if you just pull things out of the hat. Tell them about when you went to read the Gallagher. Read the question back. Bob has asked me to.
At lunchtime, I was telling them a story about the time we went to Cornwall, New York, to get the book rolling. We couldn't afford to have paid proofreaders, so Bill Wilson and Hank Parkers and I went up to Cornwall, New York, to do this. We took the whole manuscript with us. Hank Parkers had arranged for the basic. We had no way paid for this, but he had sold enough stock in Works Publishing Company, which was organized to finance this book.
Organized to finance this book, and everybody, Hank thought, at least, that everybody was going to make millions on selling this book, but we couldn't raise it for Mr. Rockefeller.
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Bill had tried, Mr. Rockefeller felt that this was not the way to do this, by financing it from wealthy sources, and he very wisely felt, I'm sure you'd all agree, that we ourselves should contribute enough to the kitty if that's the way it had to be. Nobody, in those early days, had enough money, no alcoholic had it as yet in 1936 or 37, I think I decided, and so Hank, they did put out shares in Works Publishing Company, very few of which were sold, but enough was raised to get this started and get it into the press, but we had gone up, the three of us, to Cornwall to do this, and Dorothy Snyder, some of you may know Clarence Snyder of Cleveland, who was a great, had so much to do with starting the Cleveland AA groups, his wife had a sister in Bronx, New York, and she had come to visit the sister and had met Bill, and she called Bill up and said she was in town and she'd like to see him, and he said, we're up at Cornwall, come on up, you know, and I must say, like most men of good taste, Bill liked pretty girls too, and Dorothy was a lovely, warm, just humorous, full of humor, full of laughter person, and he liked Dorothy very much, so there we were, the four of us, and I had never met Dorothy Snyder before, but we immediately developed a perfect rapport, as though we'd known each other all our lives, and after we had done the stint for the day, she and I shared a bedroom, and we were talking away and talking away, and this must have been 1, 32 o'clock in the morning, there was a knock on the door, and it was Bill, and Bill couldn't sleep.
Mark was sound asleep somewhere, but Bill couldn't sleep, and we had coffee sent up, Dorothy and I, so we were in a room with one big double bed, so Bill just got right in the middle, and there we were, and we talked the rest of the night, the three of us, in that position, and it was the kind of conversation, and as I said, Bill just exuded love and understanding, and he did have wisdom, a great deal, in my opinion, but he didn't think so, and he really constantly worked for it all his life, and had, oh, no, well, it's unbelievable how much wisdom he really ended up with, but it was the way it goes, yeah, but I want to ask you, I, there's so many things I want to ask, but among them is, was Ebby in and out of the picture then, Ebby Thatcher, the guy that Bill talked to at the very, very beginning?
Sybil's question is about Ebby Thatcher, who actually is the man who started Bill in the direction where we're all at, at this particular moment, Ebby and, Ebby and Bill had been friends for many, many years, had helped each other out of drunken stupors many times, sometimes Ebby, Bill, and sometimes Bill, Ebby, helped each other out financially, and had been at Towne's Hospital together more than once with the wonderful Dr. Silkworth, who first gave us the medical backing we needed to make this believable to any, to doctors at all in the first place, but Ebby, Ebby was sober at the time, this was in 1934, I'm quite sure that date, but it doesn't really matter, Bill ended up in Towne's Hospital once more, and Dr. Silkworth, as usual, talked to him, encouraged him, and said he wanted him to talk again with Ebby Thatcher, and who, at this particular time, was sober and had been for, I can't remember, about six months, I believe, with the help of the Oxford Group, which was very active at that time, and so Bill didn't think much of it in the hospital, but after he got home, Ebby came to the house, and he was drinking at the time, and Ebby came to the house and began to talk to him about the Oxford Group, and somehow it did get through to Bill, and maybe there was some help there, in spite of everything, so he began to be very interested in the Oxford Group, he and Ebby together, Ebby again was not sober, but, and Bill was really interested and really thought that he had found help with the Oxford Group, and they, however, and again, this came to mind with this manuscript here, one of their basic tenets was that if you had ever harmed anybody, anyone at all, in any way, no matter to what degree, you would, one of the requisites of trying to stay sober was to go to that person, confess everything, theft, anything that you had possibly done, insults, physical mistreatment, any of it, apologize, do your best to make up
[00:35:01]
for whatever had happened, the only trouble Bill found with that was that, and this happened actually twice in the New York area, where men had done this, in one case, the man across the street, he explained, or the couple across the street, he explained to his wife that he'd been unfaithful, and that this lovely girl lived right across the street, but it would never happen again, and he was so sorry, and so on, well, the first thing that happened, of course, overcame the husband when this began to go through the, from the whisperer, you know, from one to another, and you don't keep that kind of thing secret the minute you spread it that way, anyway, there was a great deal of trouble about it, and that's when they began to realize that maybe that wasn't the best thing in the world, if it hurt the other person, if you could do that without hurting that person, that was fine, or if you could quietly make amends, if you had stolen from your parents, and they didn't even know it, any, any way at all, but not to add further hurt to that particular thing, at the same time, about the same time, the Oxford group people were protesting somewhat that Bill was going off too much on his own, again, the thought is here, he thought that he could be most helpful to other alcoholics, and wanted to concentrate on that area, but the Oxford, certain aspects, and I was not active, I mean, I didn't know many of the Oxford group people, per se, but a lot of them felt, at least those who had any authority, that Bill shouldn't do that, that he should be more along, do everything for everybody to be part of what everybody else was doing, and not concentrate, their feeling, I think, was that other people who weren't alcoholic could be just as helpful to the alcoholic as Bill, who was alcoholic, and of course, Bill didn't agree with that, that's the first thing he understood, that that's where he could communicate, and that's why he tried so desperately with many people in the New York area, until he hit Bob Smith, he never, no one ever really stopped, but that's when they separated from the Oxford group area, and because Bill was, by that time, absolutely sure that this was the way he had to go, so it was quite a thing for them, so, yes sir, the question is, how did I get in touch with Bill right at the very beginning, and of course, I was, as I said, I think I was a very good secretary, and I didn't like the various jobs I had at that time, and for one reason or another, I'd simply tell them I was quitting in two weeks and do so, and I was always able to get a job, of course, it was depression times, and you didn't work for much, but I actually came to them through an agency, Hank Parkhurst had contacted an agency for a secretary, and that's what I thought I was doing at the time, I was sadly disillusioned, but it really was something, the question is, what happened to Hank Parkhurst, unfortunately, Hank, he was sober, I must have been two, three, four years, that's hard for me to remember, after I began, wait just a minute, I, he finally began to drink, and began to drink heavily, he was divorced, he remarried, and that was unhappy, he continued to drink off and on, all through this period, he was, he divorced the second time, and remarried, and during that period, continued to drink, and he simply died, I don't really know what the cause was, but during the third marriage, anyway, he was, at the end of Hank, excuse me, somebody wants a question, the question was, do I know, did I know Bill prior to my drinking, I did not, no, I had no knowledge of, well, not many people had heard of Bill, you must admit, at that time, very, very few people had, at this time, we were having, they were having, in the New York area, I don't remember how many they had in Cleveland, Akron, but they had about 10 groups, scattered and small, but really, in those days, in the first clubhouse, and I was saying, again, coming up, that we met in Bill Wilson's home, mostly, sometimes in the office, that was rare, because we were down at Vesey Street, at this time, in the Wall Street section of New York City, and this was pretty much closed at night, but some of the, a few men, by this time, did have a little money to put in the kitty, and they guaranteed, or paid the first month's rent, and guaranteed the first year's rent on a clubhouse, and this is where we met at that time,
[00:40:02]
and this reminds me of it, because we had the Friendly Prayer, also, right over the mantelpiece in this hall, but most of the rent came from collections in this clubhouse, and Bill and Lois, everybody was so broke, believe me, Bill and Lois lived in this clubhouse, at that time, it was a long room, such as this, but more of a two-story, and it had a balcony in the front, end of this hall, on one end of it, the big fireplace, and on one end of it was a balcony, which had a one-bedroom and a bath, and downstairs, there was a little kitchen bar, where they made coffee, and they could get breakfast, and Lois could get a few meals together, they had lost the house in Brooklyn, mortgage, and this house, I believe, was from Lois's family, that she had inherited, but they couldn't keep up the payments, couldn't keep up the mortgage, and as I said, Bill was too interested in AA to be able, really, I don't think he could have concentrated, this was all of a sudden his life, he got concentrated, and as I say again, it was depression times, and he just simply couldn't make a living, but this was very hard on Lois, who is a beautiful, beautiful woman, lovely person, just a lovely personality, but she went through it just beautifully all the time, and I'm sure the coffee there was some of the worst coffee you ever tasted in your whole life. We had a caretaker who also, just for a place to live, he was the caretaker, and he was in charge of the coffee, none of the girls were allowed to touch any of this, this was his domain, and believe me, it stood by itself, it was really terrible, it really was. I love this girl here, I think, behind you.
Well, the question is about how the book was written, and a little more about the first early groups. As I said, Bill did not like to dictate at any length of time, and then have me type it and read it, and he was very, his mind, and his whole thought process was just above and beyond all that, so that he did come in almost every morning with a yellow legal pad on which he had made note, and if he was in the mood, he would stand behind me and simply begin to talk, and I developed quite a speed to be able to keep up with this kind of dictation, which I had never tried before, but he liked to see it appear ahead of him. Now, we had already contacted every group there was, or any individual there might be, with whom we had any kind of correspondence, for ideas, and for stories, personal stories, that if they cared to write their own stories, and this was, at this, at the time we were working on the original, the first few chapters, and the steps, the stories were in the process of coming in, and we didn't have much about, in that way, at that time, but every, I really don't know, as I said, I don't have total recall, and I had no idea that history was going to ask details, so I don't know how many of these we did, but we did, I would guess, 40 or 50 different times, because every time we wrote to, even if we didn't write, we had criticism from Akron, and Cleveland, and wherever it was, we heard that this is what you're going to say in the book, Bill, and you can't do that, and then we might do a couple of pages, and this sort of thing, so it was a long drawn-out thing from that standpoint.
This was rather fascinating, that part, the question is, did Bill have the steps together when we were writing the book, and actually, I believe that was the nucleus, where Bill really started, as I said, when they found that all kinds of weird things were happening, including serving beer at a meeting, then I think he, I am sure that he came in one day with a yellow legal sheet with 10 numbers, and under each one, something that he thought was necessary, so that the whole thing wouldn't disintegrate. Now, Bill, the last thing in the world he wanted was to be considered a deity, he didn't want to be revered, he wanted to be loved, as we all do, and respected, but he feared, I don't know where he had the wisdom early, to see how this thing might develop, and how see how this thing might develop and how people might think that this had to be somebody you had to kowtow to, to make obeisance to, and he was a deeply religious man, and although not a church
[00:45:07]
affiliated man, but he realized that this could be the ruin of everything in his heart he knew might be done. He didn't have the big vision of what it has become, but he knew that a great many people, I think he thought if thousands could be helped through this way that that would be a miracle beyond anything he had dreamt of. And of course, as it went on and on, he could see the whole thing develop and realize more and more that he had to seek for the wisdom to keep this on a human basis. He was mostly all a very human, very loving man, but I think that's the hardest thing in the world to do.
Did you all hear the question whether we had any funny letters when we moved from Newark, New Jersey to New York City? We moved, I believe within the first six months, I think early in 1935, we moved from Vesey Street, mostly because we couldn't pay the rent at that point. And somebody in New York, one of the New York AAs recommended this office on Vesey Street, saying that if we made it more convenient to, mostly, most of them were New Yorkers at that time, why he would be willing to kick in a little bit for the rent over there to get us started. So that was part of the reason we moved over there at that time. It is a little hard. I think, to me, one of the funniest letters was a request for a form to fill out, and saying that they couldn't afford much in the way of dues, but anything under $10 a year, they could afford. But it turned out to be the wife who was going to do this applying for her husband. And even then, within the first year that I ever worked with this thing, I knew that this wasn't going to work. But we had a lot of criticism from that angle of, why can't you? Why can't you talk to him? Why don't you send somebody out to talk to him? And sometimes, and I think AAs, a lot of them are still willing. If somebody is heartbroken enough to try, and I suppose it doesn't help, although we all know. But I think, looking at this meeting, I remember a couple of nights in the New York clubhouse when people came in off the streets. These were all open meetings.
At that time, I don't think there was a closed meeting. Anybody could come to Bill Wilson's house if you heard there was going to be a meeting, whether you were an alcoholic or just a wife or family of any kind. But people in tie and tails and ones with a top hat sitting here to see what's going on. And not very sober, any of them. I don't know whether any of them ever ended up in the SNAA, but this is the way, being New York, I suppose, this is the way it all happened.
Question is where the Serenity Prayer came into the picture. It was not in the office. It was in the first clubhouse building on the wall. But I don't know, I suppose you all, and I don't think it's any big secret, you all know Art Carney. Art had a brother who was in SNAA, and this is Jack Carney. He's dead. He's been dead a long time. But Jack was desperately, he was very young, one of the youngest men who had ever tried to really make it in SNAA at that time. He was a stage personality.
He wanted to sing, as Art always did, I mean, you know, make appearances. And he did sing beautifully and had a guitar. And he came in one day. We were both young and both had a bad marriage and so on. And he did come in and out a lot. We had lunch. But he came in one day with a clipping about so big. And it was the Serenity Prayer, signed Mother. And it came from one of the New York newspapers. He had cut it out and thought it was particularly apropos. And of course, so did I immediately. I mean, it was apropos for me, not that I particularly thought about it in terms of AA. But I was so impressed with it that I did use it in many, many letters for several months. And they began to use it in New York City. And then Horace Crystal, who was one of the few AAs who had a few hundred
[00:50:01]
dollars, came in one day and offered to print several hundred cards, just little calling cards with the prayer printed on it so that I could send them out and anyone who wanted to could pass them around New York City area. And that's what they did do. I carried that clipping personally for many years and then gave it up to, we were laughing about this, to an AA who promised immediately to, he wanted to photostat it and return it to me. And that was the last I ever saw.
But I understand, thank goodness, I did have a chance to get to New York City and talk to Nell Wing about a year and a half ago. And I had written to her finally. She had been asking me these questions and I told her it was, well, to whom I had sent it. And she was able to get it from him. So it is in the New York offices and I'm very glad of that. I treasured that personally, so I'm glad it's really there. Yes.
The question is, how the Jack Alexander story came to be printed? I believe, I really can't swear to it. Some of my recall is not good, but I believe he saw it in Liberty Magazine. We had a small article in Liberty Magazine which fascinated him and he wanted to do a longer and more covering article on the whole thing. And that's just the way I remember that. Yes. Yes. And of course, the question is about Dr. Bob. I knew Dr. Bob as much as I could between having to go back, being in New York and he was there. But he did visit New York and I did visit him. I did visit some of the groups just once, went around the country a little bit and did stop and visit with Ann and Dr. Bob. Now, he was a very different man from Bill. The basic humility, the basic love and understanding were there. Bill was a dreamer, a spiritual man more in the sense of drifting and imaginatively, where Dr. Bob was here and now. Just as loving, just as wonderful a man, but much more, in my opinion, much more practical man. But also, just as warmly giving and accepting as Bill was. He loved a good joke and there was nothing better than Bill loved a good joke, even on himself. I'd like to tell you one of the funniest things in that way. This was at the time we were trying to impress Mr. Rockefeller and his various representatives. And also, we were impressed by the fact that we had two young men in their early 30s who were interested in AA and were talking to Bill and the hundred or so people we had around at the time. And one of them came from quite a wealthy family, was well-dressed and all. The other was really got a bum type of fellow, but cleaned up and everything. We never did think very much of him. Now, even Bill had his failings and Bill had his doubts about this young fellow very much. But the other fellow, he looked really good. So Bill invited him to come to the office one day and to meet Mr. Richardson, who was Mr. Rockefeller's representative at that time, financially, and his spiritual advisor, too, I believe. But anyway, this young fellow arrived at the office early and plastered, plastered to the… Oh, he was terrible. Really sloppy, kind of, you know. And so Bill had a very tiny office, which it was a little corner like that.
That was Bill's office, but it had a big couch in it and one big easy chair and a small desk. So I got this fellow stretched out on the couch and shut the door, hoping to intercept Bill and Mr. Richardson. But Bill was, as usual, talking and waving and explaining to Mr. Richardson that this is Dutch, who does all our work. He never took a breath. I couldn't get across to him. No way today, you know. I was trying to say Bill, but Bill was not receiving. And he said, and this, I'm sure, is our young, our youngest representative. And here he was, out.
He was really out like a light. And Bill let out a roar of laughter. You could have heard it. He thought that was the funniest thing that happened to him for a long time. So he had a marvelous sense of humor. And fortunately, we weren't dependent on Mr. Rockefeller's money. I think it might have had an influence. I really don't know. How did she get as a non-alcoholic? Well, how did I get as a non-alcoholic? No, we didn't say, you can't have a book or you can't
[00:55:04]
come to a meeting. In those days, everybody was welcome because this was Bill's way of talking to people. But Kay had answered, I don't know whether, I think it was Liberty Magazine. Remind me to talk about the appearance, the one-minute show. I forget the name of it. But anyway, she answered and wrote to us after reading one of the articles. And if I remember correctly, she wanted help for her husband who was in California at the time.
That's the way I remember. But anyway, Bill saw no reason why she shouldn't have a book. Well, she wanted to pay for it. We needed every little cent at that time. And obviously, Kay could afford it. So Kay came in and Bill had a long talk with her and explained how it was done and why we couldn't just send her a pill along with this to do a lot of good. But she did take the, in her way, I think she helped spread the good word. I think it's a good word and I know you all did. But that's how. I thought it was the book. I think the book was already out. And I think so. Yes. Yes, it was. That's this, 1939.
I think there are more reasons than that. They were always, I said 10 before and that's right. That's wrong because I believe, I'm sure he came in with 12 and the number 12 and it never varied from that. Never, never did vary from that at all. One minute to five. Oh, I have something that amused me about the getting to the public part of it. There was a program at that time called what? We the People. And everybody was allowed to appear. There was one minute. You had one minute to talk. And this was one of the first shows that tried to bring to the public some of these things. Well, at that time we had a very, very handsome, very young man. He really was handsome. He was a cholera. Oh, he was a gorgeous creature and sober. And he told himself why he finally came into AA. He still had quite a good job at the time, but he had been to a party. And when he came to, he found himself stretched out on the dining room table with a lily in his hand with his mouth hanging open. And this is what first made him think maybe he had a problem. So he came into AA. But we thought this was the perfect person. After all these battered up old AAs we had at that time, none of them, Bill was beginning to look quite presentable, I'll tell you. But he, Bill was a very haggard, drawn man when I first knew him, although he'd been sober a year. But in any event, here was this handsome, he hadn't much damage done to him. So they primed him for this one-minute talk.
But they never were very sure of Morgan. And so they had, they had a, for a whole week beforehand, they had some, one of the AAs stayed with him every minute they slept with him. They, but we were sure. Now the Liberty, in answer to the Liberty article, we didn't get many. I, not very many. I don't know if we had 50, I doubt it, 50 responses from that. But this, we were sure was going to just overwhelm us, you know. And we had the book printed at that time. And Hank sent out all kinds of cards to every doctor on a list he had gotten together. A little, if you want to order the book, which is on radio at such and such a time, listen. And if you want to order the book, fill this in and send it in, you see. Because we, and we were all ready. We had a lot of books packed in different numbers. And so he did very well. But I don't, I don't know whether many people couldn't have been listening to the radio that night. We had two orders. One, one person actually kept the book. COD, this was. We did get the money for one book. And we had an order from a doctor for six books, which were returned to us. Somebody thought it was a big joke, I think, you know. And so we got those six back.
And that was all the response. So it took a lot of plugging to get anywhere with that. I'm not, I'm not really too conversant with, the question is whether I knew anything about what the Oxford Group was. The Oxford Group was started in England, I know that, and it was a religious movement, I'm sure a lot of people can tell you more about than I, but it was one of those revival movements that was a little more down to earth, if I remember correctly, more on the Unitarian
[01:00:05]
idea, and it was all meetings between people, one person to help the other, one group to help another, so that the concept, I think, was very good, but it was, I think, a lot too limited for AAs, and I think part of the reason for the book, this being originally this manuscript, being written that way, was from that, they felt, they knew the answers, and if you just did it their way, everybody could become really pretty good people, and I think that's what influenced a lot of the first runs of this manuscript, yes.
The question is whether I remember a Rose Brock, Ross, I'm sorry, I don't, I really don't, no, yes. I know that a lot of grads still have quite an interest in unlimited possibilities of the spirit, and they have quite an association with the arts and the arts, and I think it's a medium, were you interested in that? Only to some extent. He was, I think this was Bill's earliest attempt to prove, which is something he always wanted to do, to prove the presence, a presence, to which we could all appeal, from which we could all get help.
To me, I'm, as I said, I'm a very down-to-earth type of person. One of the things Bill did do at the office, he believed at that point, it was one of the very earliest things in automatic writing, did he call it? Anyway, he would sit and try to concentrate with a blank sheet of paper and a pen in his hand, and writings would appear. Only I'm a great scoffer, and I watched him do it, and I said, okay, Bill, but it, you know, if that's what you see, if that's where you think you got these answers, or these things, but there was never anything brilliant in these writings.
I personally thought Bill could do better if he just did it his own way, you know, I really did. But he kept hoping, really kept hoping. He also got into the seance area at one point, and I did, was fortunate enough to be invited many times to Bedford Hills with other groups, and they, there was a little balcony, it was a big, sprawling house, very attractive, but in one area of the upstairs, there was a balcony.
And at one evening, he had been telling me, and Dorothy Snyder believed in this, and said she had been at various seances where every, you know, the hands on the tabletop, and lifting the table, and not only could they lift it, but the table would suddenly appear over in that corner. They never were able to do that when I was there. But Bill said it was my fault, and he could, he could very well have been right, you know.
Were you still with Bill, was the Columbia University office a degree, and if not, was his association with Bill Brickhouse? No, I was not there at that time. I left to be married in 1942, and so I am not familiar with that. I wanted to add something, I'd forgotten it anyway, in connection with the last question, and I'd forgotten it. I'm sorry, go ahead. As I said, you know, give and take. I get along all right, but.
Well, I'd have to go through the book. I did know all of them. Everyone who wrote a story in the book at all, I did know them all, and I think most of them did. I certainly think so, but I really, I don't know what percentage would have. Yes. There's a question for Father Collins, I think, whether he might become a Catholic. Yes, and he also talked, we were talking about that, the question is whether I'd gone along with Bill when he thought about becoming a Catholic.
Again, he was desperately seeking for the answers, and someone, he had, at that point, this was after I left, but I had still been seeing a lot, going back and forth east. My mother was still alive at that time, and I visit there a lot. He felt someone had suggested it might be a way out of these terrible depression spells that he was subject to, and he spent, I'm sure, he at one point told me a whole year about seeing, he had been very close to Sir Dowling, and he then went through almost a year of it with Bishop Sheehan, but he told me at that time, and this was after he had stopped seeing them, that great as it had been, wonderful as it had been for his knowledge
[01:05:03]
and his understanding, he could not quite go all the way and become a Catholic at all. What I started to say about the seances, which amused me, I must add this, here was this beautiful building and this little balcony up there, and there must have been 30 of us, I think, in this room at the time, and everybody held hands, and we were to concentrate on this lit balcony, and not say a word. Well, this is hard to begin with for alcoholics, but they managed, and there we were sitting, and I don't remember, I think it must have been 10 minutes before murmurs began around me.
I concentrated as hard as anyone, believe me, I wanted to see what was happening, if there was anything happening, and half of that group, now I see it. Now I see the Spirit, you know, this kind of thing, but I never did. I'm sorry, I never did see the Holy Spirit. All I saw was the light up there, so he did try. In the same connection, maybe you'd like to know that Dr. Bob was deeply interested, and I don't know whether Bill's interest came from him or vice versa, but Dr. Bob was so interested, I know he told us at one point that he was in a seance where the bugles floated through the air with music and so on.
I wasn't there. I don't know, but they were, I don't think it matters at all. To me, what matters were the depth, the strengths that these two men were seeking an answer for everybody. And I really hadn't thought about that for the first book, the first revision of the book. The last story in it is called Alone Endeavor, which I wrote, but it isn't much of a story, and it was based on the fact that Bill thought it might be interesting.
This was on the basis of correspondence only, and what this, his mother had contacted me and I had written, and then we had gotten in touch a little bit, and I never did know what happened to him, and nobody in New York does either, but after that first, the next time the books were rewritten, that was left out. It was very well left out. I mean, it wasn't anything exceptional. Thank you, Bob, for that.
Oh, yes, I did indeed know Florence, but that wasn't too happy an ending either, you know. But Florence was, as far as I know, the very first woman I had any contact with, woman alcoholic. As always, a very lovely person. She had been divorced. Her children had turned against her, and the men were desperately trying to help her. She had lost her home. She had nothing. She was really in the depths, as most of the early AAs were, and this must have been, I'm sure, 1938 or 39.
It was very early on, and I, at the time, was still married and going through this very bad marriage and needed to work desperately. They suggested that she be my housekeeper. I had a little boy, a three-year-old boy. So this is what happened, and she came to live with us, and she was a marvelous cook. Oh, this was really heaven for me. She took wonderful care of my child. She was very good to him, and everything went fine until it was my birthday, and Florence was going to really cook me a dinner.
I had all dinners with a birthday cake and all the rest of it. When I got home, Florence was celebrating my birthday, but in a big way. She did come and go, and she did try very hard, but she didn't live too long either. Maybe not 10 years. I really don't know, but she was just great. Thank you. 80? The question, the statement was made that 80 of the original 100 men died drunk. As I said, we never used to count in those days.
Bill, again, always made predictions. He used to say at that time, 50% stayed sober for a while, and 25% made it. Now, that may be close to your figure. No, no. No, that isn't what I'm saying. What I'm saying is of the 100 men about whom we talked. Now, the men who wrote the book, some came from, and by the time that book was written, we must have had 500 men at least. Some of those stories came from, most of them, I think, came from Cleveland, Akron, and scattered all over the country.
No, of those first 100, I think maybe 50% would be a better guess for me because they were so desperate. I do think the average is better, though.
[01:10:08]
Indeed, it was. The statement was that the 100… No. No, if I said that or intimated that, that isn't right. I'm saying… Oh. No, because it isn't true. There were about 100 men, and the thought was that maybe the title of the book should be 100 Men. That was all. No, Bill wrote the book. Now, Parker contributed a lot of ideas. He really did. But 90% of it is Bill's thinking and thought. Oh, that's what I meant.
I should indeed have added that. I should indeed have added that. You're so right because he checked every inch of the way, particularly with Bob Smith and also with Clarence Snyder and anyone else who wanted to read it because he wanted it to be everybody's thought. You're so right. Thanks for bringing that up. Sorry. Do you remember or were you involved with any of Bob's arguments? Was it a real objection to that?
Most definitely a real objection because if there was any strong feeling at that… One of the strong feelings, very strong feelings, was that in no way should it relate to you personally. There should be no name attached to any of that. And, of course, Bill… That's why he so religiously himself… And Dr. Bob was very strong on that. And that's why they, as an example, religiously stuck with that.
And they did object very strenuously to Lillian Roth putting her name to it. I'm sure there were a lot of members and they found out… Also that they should make these 40 people… They're not ready to make them patients for a year from the drink they were drinking. Also, to start a chain of hospitals, detox hospitals, for the purpose of getting the drugs over, but also make money for people who want to go to the office.
That's right. Dr. Bob, as you know, said, well, we need to write a book. Were you involved in any of that? How long did it take them to forget about the hospital? I think they forgot about that within a very short time after it was ever dreamt up. There was some discussion, but never anything thorough about that. And I… It may have been Dr. Bob. So much was just done sort of mutually that I don't know really any more than I know who first thought of Alcoholics Anonymous.
It might have come from way across country. At last I knew Bill didn't remember it either, but I didn't. Yes? Did Bill finalize… No, as I said earlier, I believe that he came in one day with a basic thought behind each of those steps on a sheet of yellow paper. Unfortunately, I wasn't smart enough to save these things. That would have been marvelous, wouldn't it? But I didn't. But I'm sure. Now, it probably came as a result of much conversation because Bill did love to talk.
He loved to argue because he was just as open, he was as receptive as he was wanting to impart what he felt. And so a lot of his thinking is the result of many people's thinking. But he did put them down on paper first. Yes? In the original… Excuse me. Okay. Bill wrote all of them. And as I said, the main part of the big book with the help of many people, and I'm sure he… I wasn't there when he did any of the other, but as I understand it, he wrote them all.
He wrote all of the editions. Again, I'm sure consulting everybody who would discuss the situation with him at all. I really think so. So, yes. Are you? Are you? Yes, we're from Marietta. Yes, they were great. Really great. This thing that I wanted to make sure that you… In our course at the AA, we talk a great deal about the 4 F's, the safety, the optimism, the security of the culture, the love, and in this area here I've noticed that we've been coming out here for 5 years now,
[01:15:03]
and I've noticed that if you mention the accidents, no one knows what they're talking about, and it's different between back there and here, I guess it's different. Thank you so much for taking the time. It was the first place we had to send anybody for a recuperative period. She wasn't a nurse or anything, she was just another loving person, and she immediately, she and Bill developed an understanding and an association, and this little farm was an ancient funny little building, but it was the first place that anyone had to go for a recuperative period, and she furnished the food and they helped with the work and that type of thing.
But in addition, it was such a grand place that a lot of us went up for weekends and so on. And this was called Joy Farm, and this is one of the things that amused me before in saying you should work with men only type, because this was mixed up there, and the joy was sometimes rather palpable. It really was. It really was. I do thank you all for listening. Thank you very much. Thank you. Now, the reason I checked with her daughter Laurie on the time is that Laurie has this new baby, the live wiggling kind, two months old now, and Ruth wants to see her grandchildren because Laurie has a little boy, Flip, and they have to go clear back down to Orange County and told me they could be out of here no later than 5.
Well, now, I know that most of you want to shake hands or say hi or goodbye or something or other when we bring this thing to a close, and so that's why we have about 30 minutes, about 10 minutes up here, and then maybe Barbara would be kind enough to take Ruth on downstairs for the additional 15 and let her sit down and get her a cup of coffee or something. Would you do that, Barbara? I have something to do first, though, and I think, oh, now, just a minute.
I think I know who will do it for me. Way back when, way back when I was in the central office, there was a young squirt about a year sober who started a group called the Sunday Noon Group, and he was really wrapped up in seeing that the message was carried and that we members picked up our own tab and that we were self-supporting when we rented a hall such as this or when we bought coffee such as there is back there or if we had any money to send it to the Los Angeles office and, of course, to the New York office.
And he used to do it better than anybody I know, and all of you know that we are going to be self-supporting today for this rare treat. We wouldn't have it any other way. But, Jules, do you remember what you used to tell him? Tell him. Try it. Try it, Jules. Come on. There you go, and we're self-supporting, and that's the way it always was and should be forevermore. Now, then, I think some people have been assigned to do just that, and I want to tell you before I say anything more, if any of you want to save what was said today for posterity, take it home with you, play it to the friends that couldn't get here today, see Joe Kirk after the meeting, and you will be able to get a tape of the session that we've just enjoyed with Ruth, and you can ask Joe about that after the meeting.
I can't begin to tell you how grateful I am to… I can't begin to tell you how grateful I am for the Glendale group for being so cooperative and arranging for me to get this hall on such short notice. And if any of you are hungry when you go downstairs, they sure have a mighty fine cook down there by the name of Winnie. I've eaten some of her rhubarb pie. Really homemade. It was warm from the oven.
And so for the few minutes that we have left, somebody kind of tipped me off there when the baskets have gone around. I do want to thank Barbara and Bob and Lou. Now I've mentioned three names, and I'm going to forget 40,
[01:20:00]
because each person I talked to did something. Matt did a lot. Marlene fed us, and Matt helped. Oh, my. I've been on the phone. I just called a few of you and told you to bring a friend, and I didn't have much time, but I think we were amply rewarded. I can't begin to tell you how much this has meant to me to be a Saturday Evening Post baby, alive and kicking, when I would have been dead so very long ago.
Yes, Cliff. Cliff is my sponsor. Cliff Walker.